Broncos Shopping Brandon Lloyd

[Cugel]

On 104.3 the Fan on the Mike & Scott show they are discussing the proposed trade rumors around Brandon Lloyd.

These are not confirmed by the Broncos and there is apparently no deal yet, but other teams are reportedly reporting that the Broncos have contacted them about possibly acquiring Brandon Lloyd.

The logic behind this trade would be:

1. The Broncos are in a rebuilding mode. Lloyd is over 30 and is going to command more money next year. By the time they are ready to compete under Tebow (or someone else) Lloyd would be possibly too old, .

2. Better to get something for him now. He's a FA in 2012 and they would have to offer him CONSIDERABLY more than the $1.9 million he's getting now to resign him.

3. I don't know why a team would offer anything for Lloyd right now unless they badly needed help at WR. They can make an offer to Lloyd when he becomes a FA next year. The Broncos are unlikely to franchise Lloyd and he is likely to want to go to a contender with an established QB rather than stay on a rebuilding team for the final years of his career -- not unless the Broncos offer him some SERIOUS money to do so.

4. With all the other holes they have on offense & defense, offering a big contract to Brandon Lloyd does not seem like a good investment and it may not seem like that to Elway and Bowlen either.

None of this is confirmed and nothing may come of it. If true it's one more indication that the Broncos management views Tebow starting as "what the hell! Orton didn't work out and the season is shot to hell anyway. Might as well pack it in, play the rookies and see what we've got going forward for the future." :coffee:

I think that getting rid of your best offensive playmaker would send a message loud and clear that "we're tanking the season and getting ready for the 2012 draft."

[jhildebrand]

Les Shapiro, earlier on the ticket, said his insider sources have acknowledged that the Broncos are shopping Lloyd. They are seeking a 2nd.

They are NOT shopping DJ. Which I find unfortunate.

[MileHighCrew]

pending FA 30 years old, 1 good year and a bit of an attitude.

Cool, get a 2nd round pick

[Northman]

Les Shapiro, earlier on the ticket, said his insider sources have acknowledged that the Broncos are shopping Lloyd. They are seeking a 2nd.

They are NOT shopping DJ. Which I find unfortunate.

I could of swore i saw a link posted on here by Carol that says they are currently in talks with trading DJ to Philly for a 3rd rounder.

As to Lloyd, im ok with trading him as well. Not sure what they hope to get in return but we are rebuilding and have a lot of young talented receivers on this squad.

[MileHighCrew]

i thought it was dj and dawkings for a 2nd? that was the talk with philly

[Northman]

i thought it was dj and dawkings for a 2nd? that was the talk with philly

It may be, i just know that DJ was involved.

[Cugel]

Why would a team offer a 2nd round pick for a player they can make an offer to next January when he becomes an UFA? Then they won't owe the Broncos any compensation.

The only reason to do it is so that you get some help this season. But most teams have their rosters set by now and getting a guy 5 games into the season isn't all that great.

I'd be surprised to see a move at all, and more surprised if Lloyd fetched a second.

As for his having "an attitude" what good WR doesn't? He's an amazing WR as he proved last week. He's clearly the best offensive player on the roster and to get rid of him just tells everybody "we're not at all serious about trying to win games in 2011."

The move to Tebow was supposed to spark the offense, but dealing Lloyd just pulls the rug totally out from under that move. :coffee:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I could of swore i saw a link posted on here by Carol that says they are currently in talks with trading DJ to Philly for a 3rd rounder.

As to Lloyd, im ok with trading him as well. Not sure what they hope to get in return but we are rebuilding and have a lot of young talented receivers on this squad.


More and more rumblings about the #Broncos and #Eagles working on a deal - 3rd Rounder for B-Dawk and DJ Williams. #NFLRumors

http://twitter.com/#!/MileHighReport/statuses/124556769849651200

Also - Xanders will be on with Mike/Scott on 104.3 the fan in a few minutes. I am sure they will ask him if the Broncos are in a trade mode - but I don't believe he will openly name players, etc.

[vandammage13]

I can see how this team benefits in the long run by dealing Lloyd, but I'm not sure anyone would bite on this trade.

If it is for anything lower than a 3rd rounder I wouldn't trade him though.

[MileHighCrew]

Why would a team offer a 2nd round pick for a player they can make an offer to next January when he becomes an UFA? Then they won't owe the Broncos any compensation.

The only reason to do it is so that you get some help this season. But most teams have their rosters set by now and getting a guy 5 games into the season isn't all that great.

I'd be surprised to see a move at all, and more surprised if Lloyd fetched a second.

As for his having "an attitude" what good WR doesn't? He's an amazing WR as he proved last week. He's clearly the best offensive player on the roster and to get rid of him just tells everybody "we're not at all serious about trying to win games in 2011."

The move to Tebow was supposed to spark the offense, but dealing Lloyd just pulls the rug totally out from under that move. :coffee:

I haven't seen Megaton show an attitude unless I missed it. I would say it has been extemely rare that Fitz has shown attitude and Andre Johnson doesn't show attitude..... but those three are not good they are great

[camdisco24]

I would like to keep Lloyd... I think his ability to make big plays when it counts is pretty valuable when you have a young QB at the helm. Unless we get something big in return, I think it's better to have him on our roster.

[Northman]

I haven't seen Megaton show an attitude unless I missed it. I would say it has been extemely rare that Fitz has shown attitude and Andre Johnson does show attitude..... but those three are not good they are great

Me either.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

If you can get a #2 for DJ and Dawk, do it yesterday.

[MileHighCrew]

If you can get a #2 for DJ and Dawk, do it yesterday.

would make sense for a philly D that has struggled and I don't think they have given up on this season. that is a win win trade

[WARHORSE]

Well, this makes sense in a lot of ways for all involved.


We are in the 'find out what Tebow has so we can be clear in our direction next year' mode.


Thing is, no person thinks Tebow is ready to take it all the way this year, no matter what you think of him.

So we look into the mirror, and give an honest assessment of what next year is going to bring concerning our contracts, players, etc, etc.


Lloyd is in his last year. Hes nearing the end of his career. Paying him alot of money is risky at best.

Lloyd knows playing with Tebow may stunt his numbers...may not....but everyone knows hes a playmaker and can stretch the field.


That means Lloyd will be favorable to a trade.


My thought? Highest bidder wins.


If we get two teams willing to give up a second......give him to the team thats more likely to have an ugly record.



We have enough with Decker/Royal/DT/Willis to get it done if all are healthy.


If we are truly to compete, you either gotta build an offense around Tebow, or you need a QB like Rogers who will throw to every player.


Tebow would need a stout defense behind him also.


A franchise ball slinger makes all other positions easier to fill.

[WARHORSE]

BTW......Lloyd does not block. That doesnt bode well for a team wanting to pound the rock.

[MasterShake]

I like the DJ and BDawk trade to Philly for the 3rd rounder. DJ I could care less about at this point, but it would be nice to see Dawkins go back to Philly to play out his career, especially if they can turn things around. I have a friend from Philadelphia and he said losing Dawkins was on par with Atwater going to the Jets. That really put things in perspective for me. Its a win win, especially if we can get some much needed draft picks. Don't we only have 5 now?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Xanders, on 104.3 the fan said a few minutes ago, that the Broncos have spoke with Brandon's rep in regards to a contract extension.

[Slick]

If you can get a #2 for DJ and Dawk, do it yesterday.

Amen.



Trading Lloyd would be a huge disservice to our new starting qb. Who the eff is he supposed to throw to?

Tim, we're giving you an 11 game tryout with decker, willis and a banged up royal. D thomas might play in 2015.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[OMorange&blue]

I can't wait until nut gets in here and goes rabid dog all over the place.

[SR]

If I could with out a doube say that DT was gonna stay healthy and be what he was supposed to be, I'd say deal Lloyd. Given that he is our most reliable and most threatening receiver at this point in time, I see no logic in dealing him unless it's for a player we would need, such as a DT or more experienced safety. But with Decker, Royal (if he can ever return to form), Eron Riley (I think he will be good), and Willis, we would still have an okay receiver corps without Lloyd. A healthy Thomas would be a great addition to the bunch.

[BORDERLINE]

Dumb move Lloyd is the only pro-bowl player on offense. Really this team has talent issues and trading it ala Cutler,Marshall,Scheff,Hillis will not make you a contender. Draft picks are not a sure thing. Think of Moreno and Ayers.

The front office better not trade him who are we gonna plug in for him D.T so he can get injured putting on his socks

[Mike]

Amen.



Trading Lloyd would be a huge disservice to our new starting qb. Who the eff is he supposed to throw to?

Tim, we're giving you an 11 game tryout with decker, willis and a banged up royal. D thomas might play in 2015.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

True, but prima donna WRs can be a pain in the butt to deal with. If Lloyd is going to see his numbers go down it isn't outside the question that he asked for a trade. If Denver gets good value for him, then you gotta think about doing it.

[MasterShake]

True, but prima donna WRs can be a pain in the butt to deal with. If Lloyd is going to see his numbers go down it isn't outside the question that he asked for a trade. If Denver gets good value for him, then you gotta think about doing it.

Especially with the conservative offense Fox likes to run. Plus, I like Brandon enough to want to see him succeed somewhere before his groin explodes or he gets too old.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

We're not trading Lloyd.

[jhildebrand]

I could of swore i saw a link posted on here by Carol that says they are currently in talks with trading DJ to Philly for a 3rd rounder.

As to Lloyd, im ok with trading him as well. Not sure what they hope to get in return but we are rebuilding and have a lot of young talented receivers on this squad.

We all know how the NFL works. Smoke and mirrors with this stuff. It will be hard to tell what is real and not. Guess we will have to wait and see once the deadline passes.

[BORDERLINE]

would make sense for a philly D that has struggled and I don't think they have given up on this season. that is a win win trade

If the second round pick hits then it's for sure a win win. If it turns out to be TE R.Quinn then only the Eagles win.

What about DJ + Dawk + 4th round pick for CB Rodgers-Cromartie I would do that in a second.

[Lancane]

Broncos' fans continually ***** that we need to build through the draft, that we have to add more young talent and then in the same breath they counter that argument by stating we should keep veterans that could bring draft picks and have hardly contributed!

Look, we're a 1-4 team, our offense is sputtering and while Lloyd may be the most dynamic receiver we have, he's still averaging 56 yards receiving a game and has zero touchdowns. Let's face it, he's had one good season in 8 years, he's in his ninth season and may have only a handful left in him and I don't see us ponying up the money that he'll demand, and he'll probably end up being a 1,000 yard receiver come the end of the season or close enough, right now he is on pace to having 840 yards by the end of the season, if he goes somewhere where he will be utilized more - then so be it. We might as well trade him if we can and get some decent compensation instead of letting him walk after the season is over for maybe a late compensation pick. We have Demaryius Thomas who has yet to earn his paycheck, if he can not match Brandon Lloyd's numbers then we have issues, if the others including Royal can not do much the same then we know our receivers suck and we need to adjust that.

In regards to Brian Dawkins and DJ Williams, the question becomes are they irreplaceable? And the answer is no... I am pretty sure that Dawkins wants to return to Philadelphia and finish his career there, just as Sharpe and Atwater wanted to do here. He deserves that much respect, and if he and Williams can land us a second round pick in the process then so much the better for us. Neither of them are cornerstones in our rebuilding process.

Same with Orton...whatever we can get, we should take, the Broncos are still paying for some of McDaniels trades and reeling from the lack of talent he did not add through two drafts. We have a lot of needs and we're rebuilding, the more picks the better and the quicker the process is over.

[Nomad]

I can't wait until nut gets in here and goes rabid dog all over the place.

He'd be like the psycho postman with guns ablazing!:D

[Northman]

Frankly, i wouldnt miss Lloyd that much.

While it wouldnt help Tebow in the short term to lose a vet in Lloyd it would force him to look at all the receivers which is what we were pretty much begging Orton to do. I dont think the ultimate problem is receiver, its the same problem we've had for a while now and that is a bonafide QB.

[SR]

I think Tebow will throw to the tight ends and running backs more just by default anyway than he will the receivers. Decker and Royal can both stretch the field. Royal has rockets attached to his feet. Decker is a pretty well rounded guy and isn't too slow himself. If Thomas can get/stay healthy, he's our Brandon Marshall-eque receiver. I like who we have but health is always a concern. I wouldn't be sad if Lloyd was traded either, but IMO it's unlikely to happen unless the compensation is 100% right.

[BORDERLINE]

Lancane,

I get we are rebuilding I completely get it. But behind Lloyd all we have is Decker. We know Royal is adequate but no star. D.T is injured and even tough i want him on the field every sunday his history does not lie this guy loves to be injured. We have one solid WR in Lloyd and you want to let him go? To get a draft pick that may or may not contribute. Kind of reminds me of Steve Smith with the Panthers. They said yeah we are rebuilding but Newton needs weapons and look he is producing while they are building that team. Helping Newton put up those numbers albeit not as many wins but with a rebuilding defense and a rookie QB who can look down on them. Kind of like the Broncos don't you think?

[Northman]

Lancane,

I get we are rebuilding I completely get it. But behind Lloyd all we have is Decker. We know Royal is adequate but no star. D.T is injured and even tough i want him on the field every sunday his history does not lie this guy loves to be injured. We have one solid WR in Lloyd and you want to let him go? To get a draft pick that may or may not contribute. Kind of reminds me of Steve Smith with the Panthers. They said yeah we are rebuilding but Newton needs weapons and look he is producing while they are building that team. Helping Newton put up those numbers albeit not as many wins but with a rebuilding defense and a rookie QB who can look down on them. Kind of like the Broncos don't you think?

We dont have Newton. Plus, Steve Smith has been producing for years. Lloyd, for just one. At the end of the day you just need a QB who can get the ball to the receivers. We dont have that yet.

[Lancane]

Lancane,

I get we are rebuilding I completely get it. But behind Lloyd all we have is Decker. We know Royal is adequate but no star. D.T is injured and even tough i want him on the field every sunday his history does not lie this guy loves to be injured. We have one solid WR in Lloyd and you want to let him go? To get a draft pick that may or may not contribute. Kind of reminds me of Steve Smith with the Panthers. They said yeah we are rebuilding but Newton needs weapons and look he is producing while they are building that team. Helping Newton put up those numbers albeit not as many wins but with a rebuilding defense and a rookie QB who can look down on them. Kind of like the Broncos don't you think?

I'm not saying yeah or nay, but as it stands now? Carol reported that we're in contact with his agent about a contract extension...that could be a sign that he'll either be extend for a reasonable amount and stay or that we'll trade him and that was a condition. Either way we shouldn't just keep players throughout a year to only see them walk for nothing...that's my point on Lloyd, if we extend him to stay then cool, keep him and hope that he contributes more then he has this season thus far. But the fans will be pissed if we extend him and he returns to his old self, which he's currently playing like!

[BORDERLINE]

We dont have Newton. Plus, Steve Smith has been producing for years. Lloyd, for just one. At the end of the day you just need a QB who can get the ball to the receivers. We dont have that yet.

We don't know if we have that yet North. Tebow only has played one game this year. Your point on Steve Smith is valid he has produced for a number of years.

[BroncosfanInKC]

Trading DJ or Lloyd would be a mistake. But by trading DJ Woodyard gets more playing time and im in favor of that. Just hate to see players leave who should finish there careers as Broncos.

[BroncoStud]

So we are starting a young new QB and the first move you make is to get rid of his best target... Yeah, real smart there... :rolleyes:

[dogfish]

keep your fingers crossed, boys!


:pleasepleaseplease:




I haven't seen Megaton show an attitude unless I missed it. I would say it has been extemely rare that Fitz has shown attitude and Andre Johnson doesn't show attitude..... but those three are not good they are great

santana moss, reggie wayne, jeremy maclin, wes welker, hines ward, mike wallace, lee evans, roddy white, eric decker, miles austin, hakeem nicks-- add julio jones and AJ green. . . i could go on and on. . .

who remembers guys named rod smith and eddie mac?

not all the good receivers are flavor clowns, by any means. . .

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Why would a team offer a 2nd round pick for a player they can make an offer to next January when he becomes an UFA? Then they won't owe the Broncos any compensation.

The only reason to do it is so that you get some help this season. But most teams have their rosters set by now and getting a guy 5 games into the season isn't all that great.



Have you noticed Houston hasn't won a game since Johnson went down? Kubiak knows he MUST make the playoffs this year to keep his job. Especially with Indy in a down year - he needs to win his division. If I'm him, I'm pulling out all the stops. Lloyd could be sicknasty in an already potent offense, especially when/if Johnson returns.

Lloyd, Johnson, Walters, Ford, and TE Daniels... He'd have a receiving corps that rivals Green Bay. The chance for a deep playoff run and possibly a superbowl as opposed to getting fired is worth a second round pick. Schaub could help Lloyd repeat his numbers from last year.

[MileHighCrew]

keep your fingers crossed, boys!


:pleasepleaseplease:





santana moss, reggie wayne, jeremy maclin, wes welker, hines ward, mike wallace, lee evans, roddy white, eric decker, miles austin, hakeem nicks-- add julio jones and AJ green. . . i could go on and on. . .

who remembers guys named rod smith and eddie mac?

not all the good receivers are flavor clowns, by any means. . .

pointing out a few examples to prove a point is one thing but you were just mean ;)

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Trade Lloyd, activate Riley. Decker, Royal, Willis, D Thomas, and Riley would be a fine group of guys to have. It's not like Tebow will be shattering passing records.

[Agent of Orange]

Have you noticed Houston hasn't won a game since Johnson went down? Kubiak knows he MUST make the playoffs this year to keep his job. Especially with Indy in a down year - he needs to win his division. If I'm him, I'm pulling out all the stops. Lloyd could be sicknasty in an already potent offense, especially when/if Johnson returns.

Lloyd, Johnson, Walters, Ford, and TE Daniels... He'd have a receiving corps that rivals Green Bay. The chance for a deep playoff run and possibly a superbowl as opposed to getting fired is worth a second round pick. Schaub could help Lloyd repeat his numbers from last year.

Didnt they already trade for Mason?

[Poet]

I haven't seen Megaton show an attitude unless I missed it. I would say it has been extemely rare that Fitz has shown attitude and Andre Johnson doesn't show attitude..... but those three are not good they are great

Megatron, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Hines Ward (not now obviously, he's old) Greg Jennings.

You could argue Wayne because he's been outspoken this year, but not in a negative way.

Not all WR's are divas or malcontents.

Yes, there are T.O.'s, CJ's, Randy Moss, DeSean Jackson, but two of those guys are out of the league, CJ has two years left tops and Jackson is a ****.

[MOtorboat]

Honestly, I don't know how they could trade Lloyd right now. I understand the assets you could receive in return, but you've got to put Tebow in a position to succeed. Trading away his best receiver, and going with Decker, oft-injured Royal and Thomas and camp fodder isn't it.

Willis and Riley = Glenn Martinez.

[turftoad]

Didnt they already trade for Mason?

Dude, I'm 49 and Mason is old enouigh to be my grandpa. :shocked:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Didnt they already trade for Mason?

Good call, I'd forgotten about that, but Mason has let his mouth run him off of the last two teams he was a part of. How long until it happens in Houston?

[Lancane]

Honestly, I don't know how they could trade Lloyd right now. I understand the assets you could receive in return, but you've got to put Tebow in a position to succeed. Trading away his best receiver, and going with Decker, oft-injured Royal and Thomas and camp fodder isn't it.

Willis and Riley = Glenn Martinez.

You never know...maybe Demaryius Thomas has shown something in practice?

If it works for Orton I am sure it works for Thomas, and as Coach Fox said "This is a performance based business"!

[BroncoBully]

no team needs lloyd more then the bears

[MOtorboat]

RT @VicLombardi Regarding BLloyd, I can tell you the Broncos have floated him a one-year offer. Nowhere close to the number he wanted. Thus, trade rumors.

That does make sense, but so few player trades mid-season happen in the NFL.

Maybe Elway is learning why so many NFL teams simply don't negotiate during the season.

[Northman]

I wonder what Lloyd is trying to get for a deal.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I was thinking about Lloyd and couldn't remember any of his TD catches this year so I looked it up...

He doesn't have any. 19 catches, 289 yards, 0 points scored - He did miss the one game we won (Cincy).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6460

I'm okay giving him up for a second rounder.

[Lancane]

I wonder what Lloyd is trying to get for a deal.

Well, he'll probably be looking for similar numbers to Santonio Holmes, he got a five year deal worth I believe 34 million with 24 million guaranteed...so my best guess would be a three year deal worth about 20 million with about 14 million guaranteed. And if that is true...then I say trade his ass.

Now if he's looking at a three year, 10 million dollar contract...then I would say it's reasonable - but is it worth the risk?

[Tned]

Klis is saying he's confirmed Broncos are shopping Lloyd.


By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 10/13/2011 06:43:29 PM MDT
Updated: 10/13/2011 06:54:05 PM MDT

With the NFL trade deadline looming, the Broncos have been in talks with other teams regarding Pro Bowl receiver Brandon Lloyd, according to three NFL sources.

The Broncos are believed to be seeking anywhere from a third to fifth round draft pick in return. There have been "three or four" teams who have expressed interest in Lloyd, according to a source, with Carolina and Tennessee believed to be among them.

Read more: Broncos put WR Brandon Lloyd on the trading block - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19108351?source=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#ixzz1aiMwhwq9

[Bugs Baloney]

You Can't See Me

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQAiUPtThEI9TkimFwoD_HjO2lWLBuT 7N-D5DfVOcsZQV-2ylH4l_A7yE77g

[Bosco]

I can see how this team benefits in the long run by dealing Lloyd, but I'm not sure anyone would bite on this trade.

If it is for anything lower than a 3rd rounder I wouldn't trade him though.

Pretty much my feelings. I understand the logic from the Broncos side, but we're already pretty thin at WR. Dumping your #1 guy doesn't sound real smart unless EFX is confident that Demaryius is ready to take over the starting spot soon.

[getlynched47]

Put 2 and 2 together, guys!!!


@MileHighReport According to @mikeklis #Broncos put WR Brandon Lloyd on trade block and are believed to be seeking a 3rd-5th round pick


@VicLombardi: Regarding BLloyd, I can tell you the Broncos have floated him a one-year offer. Nowhere close to the number he wanted. Thus, trade rumors.

You're asking "well why are we trying to trade Brandon Lloyd"?

It's right in front of us.

Broncos are not willing to meet his asking price on an extension (rightfully so), and Brandon Lloyd wants premiere WR money, even though he's not playing very well (51st ranked WR according to PFF).

Brandon Lloyd has a 57.6% catch rate. I'm trying to find his number of drops, but he's probably already exceeded his total from all of 2010 combined.

To put that into perspective, his catch rate is lower than Derek Hagan, Davone Bess, Dane Sanzenbacher, and Ben Obomanu. He's not playing like a #1 receiver.


According to Pro Football Focus:

Wes Welker, Mike Wallace, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Vincent Jackson, Steve Smith, and Hakeem Nicks are the top 7 wide receivers in the NFL right now (Can't argue with those).

Wanna know where Brandon Lloyd ranks?

Brandon Lloyd is the 51st ranked Wide Receiver.

You can argue QB all you want, but guys like DHB (Oak), Brandon LaFell (Car), Brian Hartline (Mia), Mike Jenkins (Min), and Jabar Gaffney (Was) are ALL ahead of Brandon Lloyd, and their QB situations are not much better than ours with Orton.

Thus, we're trying to trade him to get some value instead of just letting him walk without compensation in 2012.

[Lancane]

Pretty much my feelings. I understand the logic from the Broncos side, but we're already pretty thin at WR. Dumping your #1 guy doesn't sound real smart unless EFX is confident that Demaryius is ready to take over the starting spot soon.

Well Demaryius Thomas doesn't have to have a breakout season, and we need to remember that he's 'suppose' to be a Brandon Marshall clone skill-set wise, which would be far in away a bigger plus for Tebow then Lloyd is at this time. Thomas would need to just have to average somewhere between 50 to 70 yards a game receiving to match Lloyd's current output. He's really been less then productive for us no matter last year's numbers. I think the fact that Thomas and Tebow are both products of option systems and drafted in the first round of the same draft, that they'll be able to communicate a little better with one another.

[Juriga72]

RT @VicLombardi Regarding BLloyd, I can tell you the Broncos have floated him a one-year offer. Nowhere close to the number he wanted. Thus, trade rumors.

That does make sense, but so few player trades mid-season happen in the NFL.

Maybe Elway is learning why so many NFL teams simply don't negotiate during the season.

Very true...Ask Minnesota about how it felt to get back Moss last year..... yikes

[Bosco]

Well Demaryius Thomas doesn't have to have a breakout season, and we need to remember that he's 'suppose' to be a Brandon Marshall clone skill-set wise, which would be far in away a bigger plus for Tebow then Lloyd is at this time. Thomas would need to just have to average somewhere between 50 to 70 yards a game receiving to match Lloyd's current output. He's really been less then productive for us no matter last year's numbers. I think the fact that Thomas and Tebow are both products of option systems and drafted in the first round of the same draft, that they'll be able to communicate a little better with one another.

Demaryius Thomas is more like Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson than he is Brandon Marshall. Marshall was bulky for a receiver and traded speed for strength and power. He was never much of a deep threat and using him as one required 5 and 7 step drops with max protect. Thomas is more lanky and much faster than Marshall. He should be used in a completely different way. McCoy should use him exactly how Josh used Moss in New England and Lloyd here in Denver. Get him running down the sidelines isolated in one on one coverage or running vertical routes into the seams where Tebow can just toss it up and let him go get the ball.

[Lancane]

Demaryius Thomas is more like Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson than he is Brandon Marshall. Marshall was bulky for a receiver and traded speed for strength and power. He was never much of a deep threat and using him as one required 5 and 7 step drops with max protect. Thomas is more lanky and much faster than Marshall. He should be used in a completely different way. McCoy should use him exactly how Josh used Moss in New England and Lloyd here in Denver. Get him running down the sidelines isolated in one on one coverage or running vertical routes into the seams where Tebow can just toss it up and let him go get the ball.

I'm not disagreeing with you brother, but that is exactly what we were told by Xanders after we drafted him, "that they felt he had a similar skill set to Marshall"...that why I said 'suppose' above. However, there are some similarities like Marshall he's good at getting away from defenders and gaining big yards after the catch, he can also go high and still get the ball while covered as well. But that would be where the similarities ended though, when you watch film of him, he does remind me more of Calvin Johnson so that's a good call.

[Bosco]

I'm not disagreeing with you brother, but that is exactly what we were told by Xanders after we drafted him, "that they felt he had a similar skill set to Marshall"...that why I said 'suppose' above. However, there are some similarities like Marshall he's good at getting away from defenders and gaining big yards after the catch, he can also go high and still get the ball while covered as well. But that would be where the similarities ended though, when you watch film of him, he does remind me more of Calvin Johnson so that's a good call.

Good point, but one must remember that this is Xanders (whom I have little faith in) and that the comment he made was likely aimed at appeasing the masses of casual fans that may have been unhappy with losing Marshall. More hardcore fans like us know the real deal though. :D

[Lancane]

Good point, but one must remember that this is Xanders (whom I have little faith in) and that the comment he made was likely aimed at appeasing the masses of casual fans that may have been unhappy with losing Marshall. More hardcore fans like us know the real deal though. :D

But, hopefully this Lloyd trade talk comes on the heels that Thomas is starting to look capable to the coaches, he's really the ideal receiver for Tebow as is Decker, they're both big targets with good hands and that could only help Tim develop more.

[dunk7]

Looks like the "rebuild" is in full effect. See you in April Andrew!

I'm not a Tebow fan but is he getting a fair shot if they trade away his favourite target?

[Lancane]

Looks like the "rebuild" is in full effect. See you in April Andrew!

I'm not a Tebow fan but is he getting a fair shot if they trade away his favourite target?

He's still going to have Decker, 'Bey-Bey', Royal and Fells, that doesn't include Rosario, Moreno, Willis and McGahee. And if you look at the stats, Lloyd really hasn't been all that effective.

[silkamilkamonico]

probably smart considering. WR is no doubt a huge question mark now with denver trying to shop lloyd. i think its more of a need than rb currently.

[Zweems56]

Honestly, I'd trade him away for a ham sandwich, as long as I don't have to see that ******* "Can't see me," John Cena shit. Holy hell, is that annoying.

[Lancane]

probably smart considering. WR is no doubt a huge question mark now with denver trying to shop lloyd. i think its more of a need than rb currently.

It's not great by any means Silk, but would you simply keep Lloyd for the season to only let him walk after the season was done for nothing? He's not worth a franchise tag, so that's exactly what Denver would end up doing, then maybe get lucky to get a compensation pick of any value.

And it's not like there are no veteran free agents we could add for the remainder of the season, such as Houshmandzadeh, Coles, Holt, Randel El, Porter, Stokely or even Owens, they're all currently free agents and could be had relatively cheap, even Terrell Owens wouldn't be stupid enough to ask for high dollars right now.

The point I am making is that if we get something in return, there are still options to add for the season at the position, and his measly contribution is not all that much...I am sure that any of those mentioned above could put up similar numbers for this team.

[silkamilkamonico]

no i can understand trading away lloyd. its just hard to accept how low the state of the organization is right now. i think i would rather them try and decelop the wrs they have then sign anyine.

[WARHORSE]

Im just glad theres a market for him.

That means he can go to the highest bidder.


I just hope we plunder some poor team that thinks hes the answer.


He may just well be for a team like Carolina.

[Traveler]

Brandon Lloyd - WR - Broncos

The Nashville Tennessean's Jim Wyatt doubts the Titans will go through with a trade for Broncos WR Brandon Lloyd.

The Titans were listed as an interested party, and coach Mike Munchack said the team would explore trade options to replace Kenny Britt. Wyatt buys the report that the Titans are talking to the Broncos, but he can't see them "pulling the trigger" -- at least until the price tag drops from the third-round range. Related: Titans

Source: Jim Wyatt on Twitter Oct 13 - 10:45 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football?r=1

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Well, I can't think of a better way to help your young QB develop than to trade away your #1 WR.

[TXBRONC]

Brandon Lloyd - WR - Broncos

The Nashville Tennessean's Jim Wyatt doubts the Titans will go through with a trade for Broncos WR Brandon Lloyd.

The Titans were listed as an interested party, and coach Mike Munchack said the team would explore trade options to replace Kenny Britt. Wyatt buys the report that the Titans are talking to the Broncos, but he can't see them "pulling the trigger" -- at least until the price tag drops from the third-round range. Related: Titans

Source: Jim Wyatt on Twitter Oct 13 - 10:45 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football?r=1

Klis is reporting that Denver's would accept anywhere from a third to a fifth.

[Lancane]

no i can understand trading away lloyd. its just hard to accept how low the state of the organization is right now. i think i would rather them try and decelop the wrs they have then sign anyine.

Oh, I'm not talking long-term, that would be asinine. If Tebow is the quarterback they choose to move forward with after the season, then I wouldn't be surprised if they targeted another big receiver in next years draft to develop, like Criner, Jones, Childs or McNutt.

And I understand your frustration at the state of this team and organization, but at least we have some people in power now that want to get better, when you look at what McNumbnuts did, we're blessed to even be at the level we currently are.

[jhildebrand]

Broncos' fans continually ***** that we need to build through the draft, that we have to add more young talent and then in the same breath they counter that argument by stating we should keep veterans that could bring draft picks and have hardly contributed!

My Youth Movement Sig has been that way for 2 seasons now.

I wanted Lynch gone. I want Dawk gone. I want young fast guys in. I want them to get their ass whooped on the field. I want them to grow together. I want them to come up together. KC did it. Detroit did it. GB did it.

[Benetto]

Trading away Pro bowlers for draft picks put us in this mess in the first place...I doubt taking the Josh McDaniels method to success will bring this franchise back from the shitter.

:tsk:

[Lancane]

Trading away Pro bowlers for draft picks put us in this mess in the first place...I doubt taking the Josh McDaniels method to success will bring this franchise back from the shitter.

:tsk:

What Pro-Bowler? Lloyd? That's a laugh...listen Benetto, it took him eight seasons, four teams and five different quarterbacks to eventually get him there, and he's not playing at a Pro-Bowl level right now. He's not Brandon Marshall, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson or Donald Driver, he's been mediocre for most of his career, it's somewhat comparable to Eddie Royal's own in fact, would you offer Royal a multi-million dollar deal?

This is completely different then what McDaniels did, he knowingly traded young, Pro-Bowl capable talent and replaced them with shit. Lloyd is not irreplaceable, like Cutler currently seems to be or Marshall has proven to be.

[D1g1tal j1m]

It seems to me that Lloyd is a one year wonder who is now on the wrong side of 30. If we can get a 3rd round pick for him then I'm ok with it.

[Clipworthy]

Why keep someone on the team during the Tebow era that doesn't want to play with Tebow?

[DenBronx]

Some of you guys make it sound like no one in the NFL at 30 or over are serviceable to their teams or cant play at a high level. Llyod has shown no signs of slowing down but rather yet better with age.

I can see trading the guy to better the team and build through the draft but dont sit and say he's toast because he's 30 or cant play another 5 years. EVERY team has players over 30....EVERY team. I don't think it's really the best choice to constantly deal our teams #1 WRs. At some point their needs to be a chemistry between WRs and the QB and Tebow really could use someone that has hands like Llyod.


But, I wouldnt be suprised if he is traded. I just hope Decker can continue to make plays and Thomas lives up to his draft status.

[jhildebrand]

Trading away Pro bowlers for draft picks put us in this mess in the first place...I doubt taking the Josh McDaniels method to success will bring this franchise back from the shitter.

:tsk:

But the difference is this FO has shown they can hit on the picks that matter i.e. Early round picks whereas McD couldn't.

Already Miller and Franklin are far more productive that Ayers, Quinn, Alphonso, and even Moreno to a degree!

Obviously my Youth Movement depends on a FO that can hit pay dirt like Ted Thompson, or the GM for the Giants there, or Pittsburgh. If we had a Millen like office, then forget it all!

[Bosco]

But the difference is this FO has shown they can hit on the picks that matter i.e. Early round picks whereas McD couldn't.

Already Miller and Franklin are far more productive that Ayers, Quinn, Alphonso, and even Moreno to a degree!

Let's not get crazy here, as we're barely a quarter of a way through the season. Remember at this point in 2009 that McBath was taking playing time from Dawkins and Hill and Ayers was only in rotational duty. Now McBath is out of the league (though mostly because of injuries) and Ayers has gone from a slightly above average SOLB to a very good LDE.

[jhildebrand]

Let's not get crazy here, as we're barely a quarter of a way through the season. Remember at this point in 2009 that McBath was taking playing time from Dawkins and Hill and Ayers was only in rotational duty. Now McBath is out of the league (though mostly because of injuries) and Ayers has gone from a slightly above average SOLB to a very good LDE.



I am not getting crazy. My point is at the top of the draft the EFX FO has done more than the McD/X FO.

Moore, Franklin, and Miller far exceed Moreno, Ayers, McBath. The fact is McBath is gone. Smurf is gone. Moreno is relegated to situational and change of pace RB.

I have hope for Ayers only because he is at his natural position and because D linemen take time to grow. But the reality is this FO's selections are paying more dividends with a worse team and tougher schedule.

I would also look at some of your point with a grain of salt in that Nolan was here. An established DC vs a rookie DC in Allen.

[Bosco]

I am not getting crazy. My point is at the top of the draft the EFX FO has done more than the McD/X FO.

Moore, Franklin, and Miller far exceed Moreno, Ayers, McBath. The fact is McBath is gone. Smurf is gone. Moreno is relegated to situational and change of pace RB.

I have hope for Ayers only because he is at his natural position and because D linemen take time to grow. But the reality is this FO's selections are paying more dividends with a worse team and tougher schedule.

I would also look at some of your point with a grain of salt in that Nolan was here. An established DC vs a rookie DC in Allen.

At this point in their careers, McBath was looking better than Moore was. Granted that McBath was used in rotational duty, the point still stands. While these guys are looking good now (and I hope they continue that way) it's simply too early to be making the kind of conclusions that you are. It's not uncommon for rookies to start hot and then drop off.

[DenBronx]

But the difference is this FO has shown they can hit on the picks that matter i.e. Early round picks whereas McD couldn't.

Already Miller and Franklin are far more productive that Ayers, Quinn, Alphonso, and even Moreno to a degree!

Obviously my Youth Movement depends on a FO that can hit pay dirt like Ted Thompson, or the GM for the Giants there, or Pittsburgh. If we had a Millen like office, then forget it all!

Very true and I have much much more faith in our front office then I have in years. Even though Elway is a rookie when it comes to this kind of stuff I must say he is doing a tremendous job and has even handled the whole QB fiasco very wisely. I think he is ready to put in blood, sweat and tears just like he did when he was a player.

And I must say Xanders must be able to finally breath a sigh of relief now that Elway is on board and McD is gone.

[jhildebrand]

At this point in their careers, McBath was looking better than Moore was. Granted that McBath was used in rotational duty, the point still stands. While these guys are looking good now (and I hope they continue that way) it's simply too early to be making the kind of conclusions that you are. It's not uncommon for rookies to start hot and then drop off.

Does Ayers have five sacks yet? Nope. How do you think McBath looked better? I can't recall McBath hitting anybody. I don't recall McBath in run support like Moore. I remember McBath on ST's more than anything.

I haven't even mentioned Franklin yet, either. All while R Quinn is out of the league and Smurf is all but done too.

[Bosco]

Does Ayers have five sacks yet? Nope. How do you think McBath looked better? I can't recall McBath hitting anybody. I don't recall McBath in run support like Moore. I remember McBath on ST's more than anything.

I haven't even mentioned Franklin yet, either. All while R Quinn is out of the league and Smurf is all but done too.

That's some silly criteria there, buddy. Ayers has played two positions that are more focused on run support than pass rushing in most schemes, the former of which Ayers has always been solid at. Von plays a position where he is essentially a pass rusher and nothing else, much like Doom was in 2009. The differences in responsibilities and roles makes a head to head comparison impossible. McBath spent most of his time at free safety, not strong safety like Moore. The reason Moore looks better there is because his position places a higher focus on that. McBath was no slouch in run support though, and he had a very good showing there in the 2009 Chargers game where he took over for Dawkins for almost an entire half.

Quinn is out on an injury settlement after getting put on IR, so he is not "out of the league" in the strict sense that guys like McBath are. It's very likely that he's right back in the fold come 2012, quite possibly even here since we don't have a single tight end that can block. Alphonso had 5 picks last year, so I don't see how he is close to being out of the league yet.

[Benetto]

What Pro-Bowler? Lloyd? That's a laugh...listen Benetto, it took him eight seasons, four teams and five different quarterbacks to eventually get him there, and he's not playing at a Pro-Bowl level right now. He's not Brandon Marshall, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson or Donald Driver, he's been mediocre for most of his career, it's somewhat comparable to Eddie Royal's own in fact, would you offer Royal a multi-million dollar deal?

This is completely different then what McDaniels did, he knowingly traded young, Pro-Bowl capable talent and replaced them with shit. Lloyd is not irreplaceable, like Cutler currently seems to be or Marshall has proven to be.


Are you laughing because you think he wasn't a pro bowler? Or because you think its laughable that he was...Either way the laugh's on you, because he was a pro bowler last year, and highly well deserved..:coffee:


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8231ad87/article/broncos-reportedly-fielding-offers-for-pro-bowl-wr-lloyd?module=HP11_headline_stack

[Lancane]

Are you laughing because you think he wasn't a pro bowler? Or because you think its laughable that he was...Either way the laugh's on you, because he was a pro bowler last year, and highly well deserved..:coffee:


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8231ad87/article/broncos-reportedly-fielding-offers-for-pro-bowl-wr-lloyd?module=HP11_headline_stack

I'm laughing because you're acting like he's a frequented Pro-Bowler or even a perennial All-Pro, which he is neither. So the laugh is on you, there happens to be a business side to the sport that's just as critical as anything else a team or organization must do. Did he deserve to be in the Pro-Bowl? Yes...where did I say he didn't? Fact is that the Pro-Bowl can be an ill advised measuring tool, statistically at least because there have been athletes voted into the Pro-Bowl who were in fact not that great; we've had a few here in Denver...Javon Walker, Brian Griese, Tory James, Desmond Clark, Ian Gold to name those off the top of my head. Lloyd has one good season out of eight and people are acting like he's Reggie Wayne, which he is not...and that is why I am laughing. You want to measure the competence of a professional athlete? Then look at the other statistics besides a one time trip to the Pro-Bowl, and if you choose to measure accolades then All-Pro is a more honest acumen.

[FlyByU]

On 104.3 the Fan on the Mike & Scott show they are discussing the proposed trade rumors around Brandon Lloyd.

These are not confirmed by the Broncos and there is apparently no deal yet, but other teams are reportedly reporting that the Broncos have contacted them about possibly acquiring Brandon Lloyd.

The logic behind this trade would be:

1. The Broncos are in a rebuilding mode. Lloyd is over 30 and is going to command more money next year. By the time they are ready to compete under Tebow (or someone else) Lloyd would be possibly too old, .

2. Better to get something for him now. He's a FA in 2012 and they would have to offer him CONSIDERABLY more than the $1.9 million he's getting now to resign him.

3. I don't know why a team would offer anything for Lloyd right now unless they badly needed help at WR. They can make an offer to Lloyd when he becomes a FA next year. The Broncos are unlikely to franchise Lloyd and he is likely to want to go to a contender with an established QB rather than stay on a rebuilding team for the final years of his career -- not unless the Broncos offer him some SERIOUS money to do so.

4. With all the other holes they have on offense & defense, offering a big contract to Brandon Lloyd does not seem like a good investment and it may not seem like that to Elway and Bowlen either.

None of this is confirmed and nothing may come of it. If true it's one more indication that the Broncos management views Tebow starting as "what the hell! Orton didn't work out and the season is shot to hell anyway. Might as well pack it in, play the rookies and see what we've got going forward for the future." :coffee:

I think that getting rid of your best offensive playmaker would send a message loud and clear that "we're tanking the season and getting ready for the 2012 draft."

I say they need to hold on to Lloyd until the last game this season then work up a deal for a good draft pick. If we could land another Decker type player it wouldn't be to bad at all.

However, don't get trade him now or we would lose a good player that we need this year and his game play this year will help the team and Tebow get better.

On the other hand if he gets injured then you lose everything anyway.

[Lancane]

I say they need to hold on to Lloyd until the last game this season then work up a deal for a good draft pick. If we could land another Decker type player it wouldn't be to bad at all.

However, don't get trade him now or we would lose a good player that we need this year and his game play this year will help the team and Tebow get better.

On the other hand if he gets injured then you lose everything anyway.

Eh? After next Tuesday players can not be traded until after the finish of the season. And come that time Brandon Lloyd is an unrestricted free agent, unless we put the franchise tag on him...which would be monumentally ignorant because it forces the team who tags them to pay them comparable to the top people at their respective position. So if we want to trade him for good compensation, then this is the right time.

[Traveler]

I say they need to hold on to Lloyd until the last game this season then work up a deal for a good draft pick. If we could land another Decker type player it wouldn't be to bad at all.

However, don't get trade him now or we would lose a good player that we need this year and his game play this year will help the team and Tebow get better.

On the other hand if he gets injured then you lose everything anyway.

Seems Lloyd will probably be here. A couple of teams (CAR,TEN) mentioned as possible destinations for Lloyd are already saying they're unlikely to make the trade.

[CoachChaz]

If Lloyd is traded and Tebow finishes the year with a QBR of 75 or higher with guys named Royal, Decker, Willis, Fells and Rosario as his receiving options...


...I'll be impressed.

[claymore]

If Lloyd is traded and Tebow finishes the year with a QBR of 75 or higher with guys named Royal, Decker, Willis, Fells and Rosario as his receiving options...


...I'll be impressed.

If Thomas starts 2 consecutive games in Lloyds absense I will be equally impressed.

[CoachChaz]

If Thomas starts 2 consecutive games in Lloyds absense I will be equally impressed.

I dont even list him as a receiver anymore.

At least not until he figures out a way to contribute ANYTHING

[claymore]

I dont even list him as a receiver anymore.

At least not until he figures out a way to contribute ANYTHING

No shit, I love the talent, the player etc... But it is so incredibly retarded to draft a reciever with a broken foot in the 1st rd.

Chances of good things happening are so slim.

[TXBRONC]

Trading away Pro bowlers for draft picks put us in this mess in the first place...I doubt taking the Josh McDaniels method to success will bring this franchise back from the shitter.

:tsk:

It's not just trading away pro bowlers it was trading way young players that was problematic and then replacing them with lesser talent.

[TXBRONC]

What Pro-Bowler? Lloyd? That's a laugh...listen Benetto, it took him eight seasons, four teams and five different quarterbacks to eventually get him there, and he's not playing at a Pro-Bowl level right now. He's not Brandon Marshall, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson or Donald Driver, he's been mediocre for most of his career, it's somewhat comparable to Eddie Royal's own in fact, would you offer Royal a multi-million dollar deal?

This is completely different then what McDaniels did, he knowingly traded young, Pro-Bowl capable talent and replaced them with shit. Lloyd is not irreplaceable, like Cutler currently seems to be or Marshall has proven to be.

Even if Lloyd had not nicked and missed a game his numbers were going take a hit because the ratio of run to pass was going to change. True Lloyd does not have the resume of the guys listed but he is still imo the best receiver on the team that is healthy enough to play. That said, D. Thomas is the most physcally gifted receiver we have. But obviously the rub is he hasn't been able to stay healthy. If he can over the injury bug I don't think Lloyd would be missed. So at the end of the day if EFX trades him I'm cool with it.

[tomjonesrocks]

This really annoys me. First of all, Lloyd is worth more than a 3rd or 4th or 5th.

Second, would it KILL this team to actually keep (read:pay) some of its own talent for once?

Lloyd gone won't help Tebow at all.

[Northman]

This really annoys me. First of all, Lloyd is worth more than a 3rd or 4th or 5th.



Based off what? 1 Year? :lol:

[dunk7]

According to KFFL.com, 4 teams have expressed interest in a trade for Lloyd. Gotta agree with Chaz, if Tebow can play decently with a sans-Lloyd receiving corps. I'll be impressed. But to be totally honest, I thought at the end of last year that Lloyd made Tebow look like a better passer than he actually was so I'm not liking his chances. Go Indy, Minny, Miami etc...

[Krugan]

Getting a 3rd for a ufa that is 30, is a steal.

Hell getting anything is a steal.

DT is the same size and runs the same 40 as Megatron, seems to me CJ had health issues in his first 3 years, then got to what he is now.

I know, wishful thinking, but maybe we catch a break with DT.

DJ, Dawk, Champ(makes me sad) and LLoyd all need to be moved and generate what ever picks we can come up with.

This season is going to be tough, and losing talent certainly wont help that, but the age of 3 of those 4 players, well it would be money in the bank and picks to get younger.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Getting a 3rd for a ufa that is 30, is a steal.

Hell getting anything is a steal.

DT is the same size and runs the same 40 as Megatron, seems to me CJ had health issues in his first 3 years, then got to what he is now.

I know, wishful thinking, but maybe we catch a break with DT.

DJ, Dawk, Champ(makes me sad) and LLoyd all need to be moved and generate what ever picks we can come up with.

This season is going to be tough, and losing talent certainly wont help that, but the age of 3 of those 4 players, well it would be money in the bank and picks to get younger.


That sends a tough message to the players left.

I have mixed emotions about Lloyd. The timing of this bothers me a bit.

I think it's a bad idea to trade your #1 WR when you're trying to develop a young QB. DT hasn't played a snap in almost a year. Who's going to be our #1? Lloyd has played with Tebow and had good numbers with him at the end of last year.

[Northman]

It just means our young receiver core has to step. Thats what we want. It means Tebow will actually have to scan the field. The last thing i want is another QB who zones in on just one WR. We are rebuilding and Lloyd is expendable.

[jhildebrand]

That's some silly criteria there, buddy. Ayers has played two positions that are more focused on run support than pass rushing in most schemes, the former of which Ayers has always been solid at. Von plays a position where he is essentially a pass rusher and nothing else, much like Doom was in 2009.

McD put Ayers at OLB hoping he could create a pressure from the outside a la dumervil. It didn't happen. So let's not pretend he was there for run support only.



The differences in responsibilities and roles makes a head to head comparison impossible. McBath spent most of his time at free safety, not strong safety like Moore. The reason Moore looks better there is because his position places a higher focus on that. McBath was no slouch in run support though, and he had a very good showing there in the 2009 Chargers game where he took over for Dawkins for almost an entire half.

The fact remains McBath remains out of the league. Not really too supportive or worth making your case on.



Quinn is out on an injury settlement after getting put on IR, so he is not "out of the league" in the strict sense that guys like McBath are. It's very likely that he's right back in the fold come 2012, quite possibly even here since we don't have a single tight end that can block. Alphonso had 5 picks last year, so I don't see how he is close to being out of the league yet.

:lol: Why do the McD supporters stand by this pick of R Quinn at any cost? :confused: I never understoof it. I got the reasoning behind the pick. But the fact is it was clear from very early on that Quinn was a waste of a very good pick.

The fact is he may not be out of the league because of "injury settlement" but he was never really in the league. Once McD benched him, that was it! He was donefer. This regime, who obviously really likes the TE position, didn't see squat in him either.

[Krugan]

That sends a tough message to the players left.

I have mixed emotions about Lloyd. The timing of this bothers me a bit.

I think it's a bad idea to trade your #1 WR when you're trying to develop a young QB. DT hasn't played a snap in almost a year. Who's going to be our #1? Lloyd has played with Tebow and had good numbers with him at the end of last year.

It does, but it also puts us in a better to position to continue the youth movement, at least I see a direction there.

Could be totaly wrong though.

And as North said, its a young group growing with our young QB, be it tebow or the next draft pick.

[BroncoStud]

Klis is saying he's confirmed Broncos are shopping Lloyd.

If Carolina got him... Yikes...

Cam Newton/Steve Smith/Brandon Lloyd...

That would be sick.

[NightTerror218]

Why trade Llyod when you have 2 receivers who are question marks? Royal and Thomas. I would rather see Royal traded personally. Lloyd is cheap and he is also more productive then royal. I dont want to lose Lloyd and Royal never be productive and Thomas be a bust and then be short handed.

[Northman]

Why trade Llyod when you have 2 receivers who are question marks? Royal and Thomas. I would rather see Royal traded personally. Lloyd is cheap and he is also more productive then royal. I dont want to lose Lloyd and Royal never be productive and Thomas be a bust and then be short handed.

Why? he has just as many "great" years as Brandon does.

[FlyByU]

Eh? After next Tuesday players can not be traded until after the finish of the season. And come that time Brandon Lloyd is an unrestricted free agent, unless we put the franchise tag on him...which would be monumentally ignorant because it forces the team who tags them to pay them comparable to the top people at their respective position. So if we want to trade him for good compensation, then this is the right time.

OK thanks that part escaped my thought and you are right We should probably get him traded and get something very lucrative out of it.

[Jsteve01]

Why? he has just as many "great" years as Brandon does.

His point is that Royal had one really good year playing opposite Marshall and having Cutty throwing the rock. Lloyd did it with Orton as the qb. Big difference. there. I still can't figure why Royal hasn't had a bigger impact in the slot.

Desean Jackson's pretty good though.

[Northman]

His point is that Royal had one really good year playing opposite Marshall and having Cutty throwing the rock. Lloyd did it with Orton as the qb. Big difference. there.

The difference is Cutler is better than Orton? I agree.

And Brandon missed the first 3 games of the season in Royal's rookie year and he played just fine.

[NightTerror218]

Why? he has just as many "great" years as Brandon does.

Because Royal had his with Cutler and Llyod had it with Orton and did well with Tebow. Royal has not done anything in last couple years and has been injured a lot. Lloyd is still doing well this year. He is not being thrown at as much but still making great catching as shown last game. Royal should be replaced by Decker. Lloyd is still #1.

[Northman]

Because Royal had his with Cutler and Llyod had it with Orton and did well with Tebow. Royal has not done anything in last couple years and has been injured a lot. Lloyd is still doing well this year. He is not being thrown at as much but still making great catching as shown last game. Royal should be replaced by Decker. Lloyd is still #1.

And Royal is much younger. While i agree the injurie issues are concern i would much rather take the risk with Royal (who also brings PR/KR abilities with him) than a one year wonder in Lloyd who took 8 years to reach even that in a pass heavy offense. And while i agree Decker should be the #2 i think the ceiling is still much higher than Lloyd at this point. The only issue is the injury bug.

[TXBRONC]

McD put Ayers at OLB hoping he could create a pressure from the outside a la dumervil. It didn't happen. So let's not pretend he was there for run support only.



The fact remains McBath remains out of the league. Not really too supportive or worth making your case on.



:lol: Why do the McD supporters stand by this pick of R Quinn at any cost? :confused: I never understoof it. I got the reasoning behind the pick. But the fact is it was clear from very early on that Quinn was a waste of a very good pick.

The fact is he may not be out of the league because of "injury settlement" but he was never really in the league. Once McD benched him, that was it! He was donefer. This regime, who obviously really likes the TE position, didn't see squat in him either.


Yep Ayers was drafted to be a bookend pass rusher to Dumervil.

McBath is gone because he sucked ass.


I would just about bet the farm that R. Quinn would have gotten cut even if hadn't been injuried.

[Cugel]

Have you noticed Houston hasn't won a game since Johnson went down? Kubiak knows he MUST make the playoffs this year to keep his job. Especially with Indy in a down year - he needs to win his division. If I'm him, I'm pulling out all the stops. Lloyd could be sicknasty in an already potent offense, especially when/if Johnson returns.

Lloyd, Johnson, Walters, Ford, and TE Daniels... He'd have a receiving corps that rivals Green Bay. The chance for a deep playoff run and possibly a superbowl as opposed to getting fired is worth a second round pick. Schaub could help Lloyd repeat his numbers from last year.

Possibly. But not at the cost of a 2nd round draft pick. In fact the Post is reporting today that the asking price for Lloyd is a 3rd to a 5th round indicating that teams are balking at paying very much for Lloyd -- exactly for the reasons I mentioned.

I.e. they don't have to give up a draft pick to get him and can get by with the players already on the roster. It would take Lloyd a couple of games to get used to the new system with his new team and that means by the time he's ready to contribute it's game 8 and 1/2 the season is already gone.

[slim]

His point is that Royal had one really good year playing opposite Marshall and having Cutty throwing the rock. Lloyd did it with Orton as the qb. Big difference. there. I still can't figure why Royal hasn't had a bigger impact in the slot.

Desean Jackson's pretty good though.

I can't believe that Desean is still alive. I thought for sure his skinny ass would get killed in the NFL.

Boy was I wrong.

[vandammage13]

Possibly. But not at the cost of a 2nd round draft pick. In fact the Post is reporting today that the asking price for Lloyd is a 3rd to a 5th round indicating that teams are balking at paying very much for Lloyd -- exactly for the reasons I mentioned.

I.e. they don't have to give up a draft pick to get him and can get by with the players already on the roster. It would take Lloyd a couple of games to get used to the new system with his new team and that means by the time he's ready to contribute it's game 8 and 1/2 the season is already gone.

Still, even with just half the season to work with, Lloyd could help a fringe team that is lacking a deep threat make a push for the playoffs down the stretch.

Not really sure what teams fit that criteria...Maybe the Titans, considering their record and the fact they lost their top WR earlier this year.

Houston could be a good fit as well...When Andre Johnson comes back from injury, Lloyd at the #2 spot would see a lot of 1 on 1 matchups with Johnson getting the double teams coupled with Defenses having to respect Arian Foster.

[Northman]

I can't believe that Desean is still alive. I thought for sure his skinny ass would get killed in the NFL.

Boy was I wrong.


Yea, he is a burner.

[Cugel]

Here's the biggest problem with trading Brandon Lloyd:

TEAMS ARE GOING TO STUFF THE BOX WITH 8 MEN TO STOP TEBOW AND THE BRONCOS FROM RUNNING.

You heard that from Chargers S Eric Weddle in the post this week.

So, defenses will take away the run, rush 8 defenders to keep Tebow in the pocket and force him to beat them downfield with deep accurate passes. "If he can do that then good for him. But until he proves it.. . ."

So, Tebow's success over the next 3 or 4 games is NOT going to be running the ball or handing off to the RBs. Teams are going to try and take away the run and force Tebow to prove he can beat them throwing the ball downfield. Until he does that then all the Broncos will see is a variety of 7 or 8 man fronts and massive pressure.

Brandon Lloyd would be KEY to beating that kind of pressure because he's really the only playmaker on the entire team. He's the ONE offensive threat teams have to respect. Demaryius Thomas is a walking IR, Eric Decker is a nice slot receiver but nobody in the NFL is afraid of Eric Decker. Eddie Royal is pretty much a bust who can't stay on the field either.

In short this is going to hurt Tebow's chances of success since they're taking away the ONE guy he could depend on to make big plays when they needed a big play (just as he did in the Chargers game).

Without that circus catch in the Chargers game there would be no last minute Tebow heroics, no last minute end-zone pass. Just the Chargers kneeling to run out the clock. Ho hum.

[vandammage13]

Here's the biggest problem with trading Brandon Lloyd:

TEAMS ARE GOING TO STUFF THE BOX WITH 8 MEN TO STOP TEBOW AND THE BRONCOS FROM RUNNING.

You heard that from Chargers S Eric Weddle in the post this week.

So, defenses will take away the run, rush 8 defenders to keep Tebow in the pocket and force him to beat them downfield with deep accurate passes. "If he can do that then good for him. But until he proves it.. . ."

So, Tebow's success over the next 3 or 4 games is NOT going to be running the ball or handing off to the RBs. Teams are going to try and take away the run and force Tebow to prove he can beat them throwing the ball downfield. Until he does that then all the Broncos will see is a variety of 7 or 8 man fronts and massive pressure.

Brandon Lloyd would be KEY to beating that kind of pressure because he's really the only playmaker on the entire team. He's the ONE offensive threat teams have to respect. Demaryius Thomas is a walking IR, Eric Decker is a nice slot receiver but nobody in the NFL is afraid of Eric Decker. Eddie Royal is pretty much a bust who can't stay on the field either.

In short this is going to hurt Tebow's chances of success since they're taking away the ONE guy he could depend on to make big plays when they needed a big play (just as he did in the Chargers game).

Without that circus catch in the Chargers game there would be no last minute Tebow heroics, no last minute end-zone pass. Just the Chargers kneeling to run out the clock. Ho hum.

I agree...

I think trading Lloyd might be worth it in the long run (only if they got a 3rd rounder IMO) for the Broncos.

However, it is certainly going to hurt them in the short term and will greatly affect Tebow's chances to succeed.

I'm not really into the conspiracy theory that the FO wants Tebow to fail so they can draft a QB, but moving Lloyd certainly wouldn't be giving Tebow a fair shake in this 11 game evaluation.

I'd really be surprised to see the trade happen at this point anyway.

[Northman]

Here's the biggest problem with trading Brandon Lloyd:

TEAMS ARE GOING TO STUFF THE BOX WITH 8 MEN TO STOP TEBOW AND THE BRONCOS FROM RUNNING.

You heard that from Chargers S Eric Weddle in the post this week.

So, defenses will take away the run, rush 8 defenders to keep Tebow in the pocket and force him to beat them downfield with deep accurate passes. "If he can do that then good for him. But until he proves it.. . ."

So, Tebow's success over the next 3 or 4 games is NOT going to be running the ball or handing off to the RBs. Teams are going to try and take away the run and force Tebow to prove he can beat them throwing the ball downfield. Until he does that then all the Broncos will see is a variety of 7 or 8 man fronts and massive pressure.

Brandon Lloyd would be KEY to beating that kind of pressure because he's really the only playmaker on the entire team. He's the ONE offensive threat teams have to respect. Demaryius Thomas is a walking IR, Eric Decker is a nice slot receiver but nobody in the NFL is afraid of Eric Decker. Eddie Royal is pretty much a bust who can't stay on the field either.

In short this is going to hurt Tebow's chances of success since they're taking away the ONE guy he could depend on to make big plays when they needed a big play (just as he did in the Chargers game).

Without that circus catch in the Chargers game there would be no last minute Tebow heroics, no last minute end-zone pass. Just the Chargers kneeling to run out the clock. Ho hum.


Well, he hasnt been traded so dont commit harakiri just yet.

[Cugel]

Still, even with just half the season to work with, Lloyd could help a fringe team that is lacking a deep threat make a push for the playoffs down the stretch.

Not really sure what teams fit that criteria...Maybe the Titans, considering their record and the fact they lost their top WR earlier this year.

Houston could be a good fit as well...When Andre Johnson comes back from injury, Lloyd at the #2 spot would see a lot of 1 on 1 matchups with Johnson getting the double teams coupled with Defenses having to respect Arian Foster.

Vandammage, you can make cases for a number of teams around the NFL that they would really be helped by acquiring Brandon Lloyd. But, probably none of them will make a trade for him. They just don't want to surrender draft picks and try and work a new guy into their system in the middle of the season.

You may not agree but watch and see. I don't think any deal for Lloyd is going to happen. I think teams are just not going to give the Broncos more than maybe a 6th or 7th round draft pick for him, if that, and the trading deadline will come and go and Lloyd will still be on the roster.

And next January he'll be an UFA and walk and the Broncos will get nothing. That's just how it's going to go.

Frankly, since I think this team would best be served by losing out and getting Andrew Luck, I won't care much either way. But, as a Broncos fan who likes to see the team win I don't think it's a great idea to get rid of your only playmaker on offense right at the time you're breaking in Tim Tebow.

[Cugel]

Well, he hasnt been traded so dont commit harakiri just yet.

Like I just said, I think this team would best be served by going 1-15 and getting Andrew Luck, so I'll be fine either way.

But, if I were a big Tebowniac I wouldn't be happy with this. Not at all. Because it's going to hurt Tebow's chances. :coffee:

[T.K.O.]

this could only mean that D Thomas is 98% and showed some great stuff in practice the last couple weeks !!!!:elefant:
or the F.O. is writing off the season and wants a spare 5th rnd pick next year for a RB:salute::shocked:

[Northman]

But, if I were a big Tebowniac I wouldn't be happy with this. Not at all. Because it's going to hurt Tebow's chances. :coffee:

I guess im one of the few that thinks it wont. Great QB's find ways to get other receivers involved. Brady, Manning, and Brees have all made some very average receivers look great. While i dont expect Tebow to come out of the box throwing for 4,000 yds i think it does force him to scan the field and get the other receivers involved. Having a go-to guy is nice, but not at the expense of zoning in on him for every play. For me, i dont think our young receiving core is the problem, it is and has been the last two years because of the QB not scanning through his progressions correctly. To me, if Lloyd gets traded it not only allows the other guys like Willis to get more playing time rep it also forces Tebow to find all his options instead of just one.

[dogfish]

in any case, it doesn't matter if it gives tebow the best chance. . . john elway and john fox are responsible for doing what's best for the denver broncos-- not what's best for timmy tebones. . .

[dunk7]

I guess im one of the few that thinks it wont. Great QB's find ways to get other receivers involved. Brady, Manning, and Brees have all made some very average receivers look great. While i dont expect Tebow to come out of the box throwing for 4,000 yds i think it does force him to scan the field and get the other receivers involved. Having a go-to guy is nice, but not at the expense of zoning in on him for every play. For me, i dont think our young receiving core is the problem, it is and has been the last two years because of the QB not scanning through his progressions correctly. To me, if Lloyd gets traded it not only allows the other guys like Willis to get more playing time rep it also forces Tebow to find all his options instead of just one.

I don't think anyone is lumping Tebow into the "great QB's" group. But I think you can find plenty of examples of teams with Good/Average QB's whose performance would or have suffered because the #1 WR is injured (Schaub). Do you think Stafford wouldn't skip a beat without Megatron? While I do agree that losing Lloyd would probably be a better indicator as to whether Tebow has progressed enough not to focus on one guy, I don't think you can argue that losing a #1 WR won't affect his overall performance.

[OMorange&blue]

I don't think anyone is lumping Tebow into the "great QB's" group. But I think you can find plenty of examples of teams with Good/Average QB's whose performance would or have suffered because the #1 WR is injured (Schaub). Do you think Stafford wouldn't skip a beat without Megatron? While I do agree that losing Lloyd would probably be a better indicator as to whether Tebow has progressed enough not to focus on one guy, I don't think you can argue that losing a #1 WR won't affect his overall performance.

I do think that you can't say that things aren't how they are when they are.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

VicLombardi Vic Lombardi
I'm told the Broncos offered BLloyd a 1-yr deal (non-guaranteed) btwn 4-5 million. He'll get more on the open market. Thus, trade bait.
3 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/viclombardi

[dogfish]

I do think that you can't say that things aren't how they are when they are.

i might say that-- just because i can. . .


:defense:

[UnderArmour]

And next January he'll be an UFA and walk and the Broncos will get nothing. That's just how it's going to go.



Wrong. If 2 things happen we get a pick in the next league year's draft after he leaves:
-We don't go out and spend spend in free agency and bring in higher value players than we lose as UFAs.
-Lloyd has a decent to great year wherever he goes

The NFL awards compensatory picks based on who lost the most in free agency. We could get anywhere from a 3rd round pick to a 7th round pick. Trading Lloyd does not make sense if we do not get at least a 4th or a 5th round pick for that reason.

Also, Lloyd is ridiculously exciting to watch. I am really hoping we don't trade him and we sign him to an extension instead. This guy is a flat out beast and with Tebow as the quarterback he is only going to look better due to the attention in the box that Tebow receives.

[ydave77]

http://twitter.com/#!/viclombardi

One yr 4 mill, non guaranteed. Yh that sound like market value. Not saying he is a stud, but he is an above avg receiver, and this just reminds me of losing Aubrayo, Mebane, Cofield etc bc we are so cheap...

I am so glad a salary floor will in place in two years...:tsk:

[Cugel]

this could only mean that D Thomas is 98% and showed some great stuff in practice the last couple weeks !!!!
or the F.O. is writing off the season and wants a spare 5th rnd pick next year for a RB

Gee. I wonder which it is? Any guesses? :coffee:

[Cugel]

Wrong. If 2 things happen we get a pick in the next league year's draft after he leaves:
-We don't go out and spend spend in free agency and bring in higher value players than we lose as UFAs.
-Lloyd has a decent to great year wherever he goes

The NFL awards compensatory picks based on who lost the most in free agency. We could get anywhere from a 3rd round pick to a 7th round pick. Trading Lloyd does not make sense if we do not get at least a 4th or a 5th round pick for that reason.

Compensatory picks are completely DISCRETIONARY with the league. They can either award them or not award them. And there's no telling what kind of pick (if any) would be awarded. Plus, compensatory picks are at the END of the particular round, so a 3rd round compensation would be basically a 4th rounder, and so on.

So counting this particular chicken before it hatches is REALLY, REALLY latching onto moonbeams.

[Cugel]

I guess im one of the few that thinks it wont. Great QB's find ways to get other receivers involved. Brady, Manning, and Brees have all made some very average receivers look great. While i dont expect Tebow to come out of the box throwing for 4,000 yds i think it does force him to scan the field and get the other receivers involved. Having a go-to guy is nice, but not at the expense of zoning in on him for every play. For me, i dont think our young receiving core is the problem, it is and has been the last two years because of the QB not scanning through his progressions correctly. To me, if Lloyd gets traded it not only allows the other guys like Willis to get more playing time rep it also forces Tebow to find all his options instead of just one.

"Stay away from the Brown Acid."

http://nicks.martnet.com/picture-archive/cons/H2K4/H2K4_AntiBushBrownAcid.jpg

[ydave77]

Since we are looking at trading DJLLoyd/Dawk, we are obviously admitting rebuild mode. The rebuild is only as good as our scouts, and GM allow it to be though. Stockpiling picks for all our players isn't worth squat, if we cant translate.
That Cutler trade as bad as it was, had those picks been utilized better may have not been so horrible.
I am still unsure what to say about our most recent draft with EFX @ the helm.

Von looks like a player, although I stick to the thought that he would be an absolute Clay Mathews-esque terror as a 3-4 pass rusher, rather than SOLB. (And on a little tangent, if Doom and Miller are both suited towards the 3-4, and we dont particularly have any Dlineman that excel at, or are even above average in the 4-3, I wish we could switch back next year.)

Rahim Moore and Orlando Franklin, potential I suppose, but if you cant say that 5 weeks into the season for a rookie, thats a bad sign. but obviously as most rookies, he has yet to declare himself. The fact they are starting does not mean they are good picks, it just means we have no depth/talent.

Thomas, Green, Carter, Irving, obviously jury is out.

More than anything we need to hit on our 1st/2nd, and get one or two surprise upside picks in the later rounds that work, and in a few years we'll be right there again.

[UnderArmour]

Compensatory picks are completely DISCRETIONARY with the league. They can either award them or not award them. And there's no telling what kind of pick (if any) would be awarded. Plus, compensatory picks are at the END of the particular round, so a 3rd round compensation would be basically a 4th rounder, and so on.

So counting this particular chicken before it hatches is REALLY, REALLY latching onto moonbeams.

I'd rather have a chance at a late 3rd, 4th, or 5th round pick than a 6th or 7th rounder, especially if we're giving up an electric player that Tebow can rely on... Even if it is only for 11 more games. I don't think Lloyd gets dealt unless a team gets desperate in the next 4 days.

[Bosco]

McD put Ayers at OLB hoping he could create a pressure from the outside a la dumervil. It didn't happen. So let's not pretend he was there for run support only.

Sorry my friend, that's not how the 3-4 defense works. Unless you're running the Phillips 1 gap 3-4 (and we weren't) then the SOLB is a multi-role player, much like the strong side defensive end in a 4-3 but with some coverage responsibilities. Ayers filled that role quite well when he was healthy in 2010.



The fact remains McBath remains out of the league. Not really too supportive or worth making your case on.

That's the point though. A guy who looked like the heir apparent to a HOF safety at this point in 2009 is now out on the street. Let's not make the same mistake jumping to extreme conclusions with


:lol: Why do the McD supporters stand by this pick of R Quinn at any cost? :confused: I never understoof it. I got the reasoning behind the pick. But the fact is it was clear from very early on that Quinn was a waste of a very good pick.

The fact is he may not be out of the league because of "injury settlement" but he was never really in the league. Once McD benched him, that was it! He was donefer. This regime, who obviously really likes the TE position, didn't see squat in him either.

That's pretty funny considering he was getting a fair amount of playing time as the #3 TE while a rookie and rotated with Graham in 2010. The benching in 2010 was for all of two or three games, at which point he was right back on the field in our two tight end sets, where he was blocking almost as well as Graham ever had. He also went into camp as the incumbent starter and stayed in heavy rotation until he suffered a season ending injury.

[Magnificent Seven]

It looks like Elway and Fox are starting to get rid of McDaniels' players... except Tim Tebow, Eric Decker, and D. Thomas.

Brandon Lloyd is the first player to head out. Kyle Orton and Knowsho Moreno could be out after this season. Brian Dawkins could be cut or traded. We will see.

[TXBRONC]

Possibly. But not at the cost of a 2nd round draft pick. In fact the Post is reporting today that the asking price for Lloyd is a 3rd to a 5th round indicating that teams are balking at paying very much for Lloyd -- exactly for the reasons I mentioned.

I.e. they don't have to give up a draft pick to get him and can get by with the players already on the roster. It would take Lloyd a couple of games to get used to the new system with his new team and that means by the time he's ready to contribute it's game 8 and 1/2 the season is already gone.

I have yet to read anything that suggest that Denver wanted a 2nd round pick.

[Lancane]

I have yet to read anything that suggest that Denver wanted a 2nd round pick.

Originally it was reported that Denver wanted a second round pick for Brandon Lloyd, but when the rumor was confirmed that was untrue; leaving the value open will only help negotiations...I think Denver did that so they could possibly take a lesser valued pick and a player or take a more valuable pick without one.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Lloyd for a 3-5 round pick... Hmm, I'd like a 3rd or better but Lloyd only has one year at an elite level of play and he is 30 now. Makes me wish we'd have shopped him before the lockout right after the season when his value was highest pre-draft. Probably could've gotten a 2nd for him then.

Honestly, I'm extremely surprised the Rams haven't come after him with guns blazing. Their WR corps is mediocre and banged up and McDouchebag obviously knows Lloyd because he gave him the opportunity to resurrect his career. The Rams really need a reliable target for Bradford and Lloyd knows and had his best year in their current system. Doesn't make a lot of sense why they aren't right in the mix, although maybe they are trying to feel out the bidding and jump in late with a big offer (like Philly did with Asomugha) after the pretenders have dropped out.

For what we're asking, I just can't see Lloyd still being here after Tuesday. He's worth a 3rd-5th rounder.

[BORDERLINE]

I read that Lombardi of NFL.com said Denver has asked for a 3rd,4th,or 5th. If this is true i'm SMH. To get rid of a pro-bowl player for a bag of peanuts. The steelers gave away Holmes for a fourth or fifth round pick and they could have gotten more I believe. I disagree with trading him but if you are gonna trade him get equal value. No lesser then a 2nd round pick would I take for him. Then make him a offer at the end of the year. Braylon Edwards was supposed to be a coveted FA WR and the market fell from under him. Now he signed for a low low price. Maybe we can do the same

[JaxBroncoGirl]

I could of swore i saw a link posted on here by Carol that says they are currently in talks with trading DJ to Philly for a 3rd rounder.

As to Lloyd, im ok with trading him as well. Not sure what they hope to get in return but we are rebuilding and have a lot of young talented receivers on this squad.

News in Jax is that the Jaguars want Lloyd. Jaguars only have 1 receiver and he is not that great. I am not sure about the Jaguars offer but, they have indeed showed interest, according to action news 47.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Deal em all. Stockpile picks. Who cares what round they are in? Lloyd is a bum with great hands. Too bad for him it took him close to a decade to show them. Now he wants paid. He can get paid elsewhere. Gimme a 4th and you can have him.

As for Dawkins...he is an Eagle. We should send him home. He is doing little for us. Get what ya can. The package to Philly w/ DJ and Dawk makes sense for both teams. Lets get a 3rd for em.

That said, none of these trades will really happen.

[tomjonesrocks]

It looks like Elway and Fox are starting to get rid of McDaniels' players... except Tim Tebow, Eric Decker, and D. Thomas.

Brandon Lloyd is the first player to head out. Kyle Orton and Knowsho Moreno could be out after this season. Brian Dawkins could be cut or traded. We will see.

Shanahan brought in Lloyd.

[roomemp]

Shanahan brought in Lloyd.

Nah he was McD's. He was a late free agent pick up in 2009 I believe.....He was insurance for Marshall when Marshall was pulling his crap

[jhildebrand]

Here's the biggest problem with trading Brandon Lloyd:

TEAMS ARE GOING TO STUFF THE BOX WITH 8 MEN TO STOP TEBOW AND THE BRONCOS FROM RUNNING.

So what!

Houston stacked the box against T2 and he passed all over them. They crowded the secondary and he ran.

That is the appeal of T2-he makes it easy, or at least has the potential to, to make it a 'pick your poison' type scenario.

[jhildebrand]

Sorry my friend, that's not how the 3-4 defense works. Unless you're running the Phillips 1 gap 3-4 (and we weren't) then the SOLB is a multi-role player, much like the strong side defensive end in a 4-3 but with some coverage responsibilities. Ayers filled that role quite well when he was healthy in 2010.



That's the point though. A guy who looked like the heir apparent to a HOF safety at this point in 2009 is now out on the street. Let's not make the same mistake jumping to extreme conclusions with



That's pretty funny considering he was getting a fair amount of playing time as the #3 TE while a rookie and rotated with Graham in 2010. The benching in 2010 was for all of two or three games, at which point he was right back on the field in our two tight end sets, where he was blocking almost as well as Graham ever had. He also went into camp as the incumbent starter and stayed in heavy rotation until he suffered a season ending injury.

You're wrong on Ayers and Quinn. Quinn was benched BY MCD and never saw the field again. This regime clearly wasn't thinking much of him either-Dante Rosario, Fells, Virgil Green, and Julius Thomas all indicate that.

There are several articles on the Ayers subject and the idea that placing him at OLB they had expected him to be able to rush the passer better than opposed to his hand in the dirt.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Ayers was NEVER a pass rush threat in college. If they expected him to be a pass rusher, they were idiots. I don't remember anyone saying he'd be a pass rush threat. He was expected to be Harrison's Lamaar Woodley. Strong and sturdy run stuffer which allows the other guy to roam free.

[Tned]

Based off what? 1 Year? :lol:

I'll be surprised if he's traded. I'm not even 100% convinced he's on the block. Most rumors are false.

That aside, most people seem to forget that Lloyd has had one great year of circus catches. The Broncos were his fourth team in seven years, and he could not stick with any other because he could make circus catches but couldn't consistently make the routine catch.

Even last year, he had near 1,500 yards, but it was only on 77 catches. So, he had an insane yards per catch average, but averaged less than 5 catches a game.

Don't get me wrong, his 10 or 11 TDs were great, and he was a difference maker, because he grabbed a lot of Orton's deep balls thrown into double (or triple) coverage or that was off target, but some seem to consider him a super start, and he isn't close.

[Ravage!!!]

I think he's had his career year, and he'll come back down to what we've seen of him over the first 7 years of his career.

[Lancane]

I'll be surprised if he's traded. I'm not even 100% convinced he's on the block. Most rumors are false.

That aside, most people seem to forget that Lloyd has had one great year of circus catches. The Broncos were his fourth team in seven years, and he could not stick with any other because he could make circus catches but couldn't consistently make the routine catch.

Even last year, he had near 1,500 yards, but it was only on 77 catches. So, he had an insane yards per catch average, but averaged less than 5 catches a game.

Don't get me wrong, his 10 or 11 TDs were great, and he was a difference maker, because he grabbed a lot of Orton's deep balls thrown into double (or triple) coverage or that was off target, but some seem to consider him a super start, and he isn't close.

Tned, the Broncos have had plenty of chances to deny the trade to the public, instead a local beat writer confirms it with his sources inside Dove Valley, while other teams are confirming they're in discussions with the Broncos (I'd say it's for sure he's on the trading block). So it's not a matter of if it's true or not, it's a matter of what is their intentions? Are they really interested in trading him, or is this a ploy to force him into a contract they're comfortable with?

[Agent of Orange]

Tned, the Broncos have had plenty of chances to deny the trade to the public, instead a local beat writer confirms it with his sources inside Dove Valley, while other teams are confirming they're in discussions with the Broncos (I'd say it's for sure he's on the trading block). So it's not a matter of if it's true or not, it's a matter of what is their intentions? Are they really interested in trading him, or is this a ploy to force him into a contract they're comfortable with?

They had every chance to deny various comments about Tebow being the 3rd or 4th string QB too. The fact that Tebow replaced Orton woud suggest that their point of view is one where they shouldn't even bother trying to get out in front of every rumor that materializes in the media.

[Lancane]

They had every chance to deny various comments about Tebow being the 3rd or 4th string QB too. The fact that Tebow replaced Orton woud suggest that their point of view is one where they shouldn't even bother trying to get out in front of every rumor that materializes in the media.

That has absolutely no relativity to this whatsoever. There is a huge difference between denying where a player stands within the organization to allowing a rumor that a player is on the trading block, because in this instance they oust the athlete in question, it can have a negative effect on how the team itself is seen by their own players; and likewise you forget that other sources are confirming the truth of the matter, teams in talks with Denver for him have confirmed it and a local journalist also confirmed it. If it wasn't true, don't you think that Elway, Fox and Xanders would be out there denying it because it makes them look like amateurs...trust me, this kind of mistake is the kind to make a whole organization look foolish.

[Agent of Orange]

That has absolutely no relativity to this whatsoever. There is a huge difference between denying where a player stands within the organization to allowing a rumor that a player is on the trading block, because in this instance they oust the athlete in question, it can have a negative effect on how the team itself is seen by their own players; and likewise you forget that other sources are confirming the truth of the matter, teams in talks with Denver for him have confirmed it and a local journalist also confirmed it. If it wasn't true, don't you think that Elway, Fox and Xanders would be out there denying it because it makes them look like amateurs...trust me, this kind of mistake is the kind to make a whole organization look foolish.

Do you mean relevancy?

You've based your estimation of its degree of accuracy on the FO's response. Whether it's flawed or not is actually less the issue. If you're going to interpret the accuracy based on how the front office responds, their reaction to Tebow rumors has weight.

Also, one thing that you're not considering when condemning the FO's silence is that, the FO can't really get into a habit of denying rumors. If they make that a habit, then any rumore they don't deny can be viewed as truthful. Nevermind the general public. Other front offices might pay attention to this as well. In this sense, you're right in suggesting there is a difference with Tebow being 2nd or 3rd string. But it makes more sense for them to address the depth chart than it does to comment on every rumored trade. Again, if you make a habit out of denying every false rumor, when you don't deny a rumor, you're making it implicitly true.

[Tned]

Tned, the Broncos have had plenty of chances to deny the trade to the public, instead a local beat writer confirms it with his sources inside Dove Valley, while other teams are confirming they're in discussions with the Broncos (I'd say it's for sure he's on the trading block). So it's not a matter of if it's true or not, it's a matter of what is their intentions? Are they really interested in trading him, or is this a ploy to force him into a contract they're comfortable with?

There is a big difference between "this play is NOT going to be traded" and we'll listen to anything. Lancane, you've been around this long enough to know that most of the rumors are just that, rumors and rarely come true. So, it's impossible for you to say he's "for sure" on the trading block. Again, there is a big difference between someone being on the trade block (the team making outbound calls shopping someone) vs. off the trade block (the team wouldn't even consider an offer for a player).

Beyond that, trades in the NFL are extremely rare. Here, you have a WR with one good year in his career (and it was even mixed, as it was a high yards, mid-level receptions, season) who is a free agent after this season who's going to want more than his career says he's worth.

I hope we trade Lloyd. I simply think it's unlikely to happen.

[Lancane]

Do you mean relevancy?

You've based your estimation of its degree of accuracy on the FO's response. Whether it's flawed or not is actually less the issue. If you're going to interpret the accuracy based on how the front office responds, their reaction to Tebow rumors has weight.

Also, one thing that you're not considering when condemning the FO's silence is that, the FO can't really get into a habit of denying rumors. If they make that a habit, then any rumore they don't deny can be viewed as truthful. Nevermind the general public. Other front offices might pay attention to this as well. In this sense, you're right in suggesting there is a difference with Tebow being 2nd or 3rd string. But it makes more sense for them to address the depth chart than it does to comment on every rumored trade. Again, if you make a habit out of denying every false rumor, when you don't deny a rumor, you're making it implicitly true.

In this instance relativity and relevancy mean exactly the same thing.

I've considered the cause and effect of both confirming or denying a rumor, the difference is that others are doing it for them, but there is a lurid effect that conforms the view of the team from being ambiguous about their stance in the matter. Look at the cause and effect of Pat Bowlens' two different statements a little under a year ago; telling one columnist that McDaniels would without a doubt return as the head coach, a day later he sends a letter to the local papers retracting that statement and stating they would re-evaluate the matter at the end of the season...a week later and McDaniels was fired. Now from a fan standpoint it may not have had a lingering aftermath, but within league circles? We can not say, but it looked to me as though it had caused some issues for this team. With the matter at hand, I believe (and this is just my opinion) that Denver is not denying the matter because it is true, and if it wasn't it would be the sort that a team would want to deny because players, especially those on the roster will take it into consideration should they themselves re-evaluate their own positions with the team.

[Agent of Orange]

In this instance relativity and relevancy mean exactly the same thing.

I've considered the cause and effect of both confirming or denying a rumor, the difference is that others are doing it for them, but there is a lurid effect that conforms the view of the team from being ambiguous about their stance in the matter. Look at the cause and effect of Pat Bowlens' two different statements a little under a year ago; telling one columnist that McDaniels would without a doubt return as the head coach, a day later he sends a letter to the local papers retracting that statement and stating they would re-evaluate the matter at the end of the season...a week later and McDaniels was fired. Now from a fan standpoint it may not have had a lingering aftermath, but within league circles? We can not say, but it looked to me as though it had caused some issues for this team. With the matter at hand, I believe (and this is just my opinion) that Denver is not denying the matter because it is true, and if it wasn't it would be the sort that a team would want to deny because players, especially those on the roster will take it into consideration should they themselves re-evaluate their own positions with the team.


The team can address this out of view of the public.

[Lancane]

There is a big difference between "this play is NOT going to be traded" and we'll listen to anything. Lancane, you've been around this long enough to know that most of the rumors are just that, rumors and rarely come true. So, it's impossible for you to say he's "for sure" on the trading block. Again, there is a big difference between someone being on the trade block (the team making outbound calls shopping someone) vs. off the trade block (the team wouldn't even consider an offer for a player).

Beyond that, trades in the NFL are extremely rare. Here, you have a WR with one good year in his career (and it was even mixed, as it was a high yards, mid-level receptions, season) who is a free agent after this season who's going to want more than his career says he's worth.

I hope we trade Lloyd. I simply think it's unlikely to happen.

I believe that the Dawkins and Williams to Philadelphia trade is just a rumor, the same with the Orton to Minnesota for Harvin, or Orton to Miami for a 5th round pick. But, when you have teams like Carolina confirming that they have spoken to the Broncos about Lloyd or even Tennessee, and also a local journalist confirming it with his own sources? At that point there is some truth to the matter, the team has had the ability to deny it with their own media shows and interviews or even with the local newspaper, but they haven't. If no one confirmed anything, especially more then just a local columnist I would say that it's probably just a rumor. And particularly wouldn't the team want to show Lloyd himself and his teammates that the rumors were just that?

I could be wrong, and if I am...then I am highly disappointed with how the new front office commits business.

[TXBRONC]

Tned, the Broncos have had plenty of chances to deny the trade to the public, instead a local beat writer confirms it with his sources inside Dove Valley, while other teams are confirming they're in discussions with the Broncos (I'd say it's for sure he's on the trading block). So it's not a matter of if it's true or not, it's a matter of what is their intentions? Are they really interested in trading him, or is this a ploy to force him into a contract they're comfortable with?

Even if Broncos are in discussions with other teams about Lloyd it doesn't mean he'll get moved. Don't get me wrong I have no trouble believing Denver has him on the block its just that mid-season trades are extremely rare.

[jhildebrand]

I have a hard time imagining a team giving something up for Lloyd right now when most can have him for less in the summer without giving him the chance to run the price up on his services at their own expense.

I doubt we see Lloyd or Royal moved.

[Bosco]

You're wrong on Ayers and Quinn. Quinn was benched BY MCD and never saw the field again.

Really? That's a pretty impressive feat considering he played in 14 games and started 4.


This regime clearly wasn't thinking much of him either-Dante Rosario, Fells, Virgil Green, and Julius Thomas all indicate that.

Again...really?

Rosario is a spot player at best and doesn't block real well, which is what Fox typically goes for in his tight ends. Didn't even make the 53 with Quinn already gone until we brought him back as an injury replacement. Fells was used by the Rams as more of an H-back and plays similar role here. Not a whole bunch of direct competition there. Thomas and Green are project players with excellent receiving talent, but subpar blockers at best. Considering that Fox loves run heavy, two tight end set, conservative offenses, it's pretty certain that the only good blocker they kept on the roster probably would have stuck around.


There are several articles on the Ayers subject and the idea that placing him at OLB they had expected him to be able to rush the passer better than opposed to his hand in the dirt.

Well of course, but what does that have to do with his role? He was still a traditional SOLB.

[jhildebrand]

Rosario is a spot player at best and doesn't block real well,

And that says what about Quinn? :confused:

Again, I am not going to debate you on Ayers. The articles are there with the quotes from the brass' mouth that they hoped Ayers could rush the passer from the OLB spot as opposed to being the 4-3 hand in the dirt DE he was at TN.

Quinn played in 8 total games! YAY! Great value McD got in that pick...right? After all, that was the argument-the 1st and 2nds of this regime are already seeing more production and quality production than the McD picks. Arguing against that is fruitless and a losing perdicament.

Quinn didn't play between weeks 5 and 12. He played in 13 and 14 last season when McD was seen gettin after him! He came back in week 16 IIRC due to injury.

Again, the guy has played 8 games. He wasn't buried behind guys like Fells, Green, Rosario, and Julius Thomas on the depth Chart by this regime WHICH CLEARLY VALUES THE TE POSITION!

[Bosco]

And that says what about Quinn? :confused:

I don't see a connection there, so why don't you tell me?


Again, I am not going to debate you on Ayers. The articles are there with the quotes from the brass' mouth that they hoped Ayers could rush the passer from the OLB spot as opposed to being the 4-3 hand in the dirt DE he was at TN. You haven't even started debating because you're confusing two separate issues. Your point is not disputed, just mostly irrelevant. Believing that Ayers would have been a better pass rusher as a LB does not in any way address his role within the defense.


Quinn played in 8 total games! YAY! Great value McD got in that pick...right? After all, that was the argument-the 1st and 2nds of this regime are already seeing more production and quality production than the McD picks. Arguing against that is fruitless and a losing perdicament.

Quinn didn't play between weeks 5 and 12. He played in 13 and 14 last season when McD was seen gettin after him! He came back in week 16 IIRC due to injury.

Again, the guy has played 8 games. He wasn't buried behind guys like Fells, Green, Rosario, and Julius Thomas on the depth Chart by this regime WHICH CLEARLY VALUES THE TE POSITION!

You should check your sources again, because both NFL.com and Pro Football Reference have him at 14/4.

http://www.nfl.com/player/richardquinn/71443/profile

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Q/QuinRi00.htm

And where did you get that Quinn was buried on the depth chart? I'm fairly certain he had already sustained his injury before the official depth chart came out.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

that said, none of these trades will really happen.

oops!