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Jsteve01
10-12-2011, 03:50 PM
How many of us thought Cam Newton would have the start he's enjoyed to this point? Is it beyond reason to think that Tebow may prove those of us who've doubted him wrong? I'm on the fence. I think you have to be able to make throws to compete in the NFL. But the kid definitely fires his teammates up.

DallasChief
10-12-2011, 04:46 PM
Carolina is 1-4. Only really shitty teams are 1-4.

BeefStew25
10-12-2011, 04:48 PM
I thought he would be decent, because he is a light skinned black.

Lancane
10-12-2011, 04:50 PM
Carolina is 1-4 because their defense is downright putrid, their offense is currently one of the best in the NFL and Cam Newton is tearing it up! I don't see Tebow tearing it up though, and I sure in the hell don't see him putting up the same kind of numbers as Newton. The best we might be able to hope for is that he's comparable to Sanchez and Roethlisberger come the end of the year.

weazel
10-12-2011, 04:52 PM
I really like Michael Vick ...err Cam Newton

Lancane
10-12-2011, 04:54 PM
I really like Michael Vick ...err Cam Newton

Cam Newton is better then Michael Vick, Newton is throwing for nearly 400 yards a game, Vick is lucky if he averages 250 yards a game. And Newton likes dogs, whereas Vick? Not so much!

I Eat Staples
10-12-2011, 04:55 PM
I thought Newton would suck in the NFL, and I'm still not convinced he'll be good. But he's a much better prospect than Tebow, and what are the chances of both of them working out?

BeefStew25
10-12-2011, 04:55 PM
You guys are all racist. Please discuss Andy Dalton also.

weazel
10-12-2011, 04:56 PM
Cam Newton is better then Michael Vick, Newton is throwing for nearly 400 yards a game, Vick is lucky if he averages 250 yards a game. And Newton likes dogs, whereas Vick? Not so much!

both teams are 1-4... just win baby...

DallasChief
10-12-2011, 04:57 PM
You guys are all racist. Please discuss Andy Dalton also.

Red heads are not smart enough to play QB. Name one red head QB in the HOF.

BeefStew25
10-12-2011, 04:59 PM
Red heads are not smart enough to play QB. Name one red head QB in the HOF.

Stabach had red pubes. I saw him naked once.

DallasChief
10-12-2011, 05:00 PM
Stabach had red pubes. I saw him naked once.

I stand corrected. I have only seen him fully shaved.

Lancane
10-12-2011, 05:02 PM
You guys are all racist. Please discuss Andy Dalton also.

Sorry...but for every Warren moon and Randall Cunningham there are three or four Akili Smith's, JeMarcus Russell's and Michael Vick's.

It's the position that's racist, not the fans! ;)

Lancane
10-12-2011, 05:03 PM
Red heads are not smart enough to play QB. Name one red head QB in the HOF.

Redheads can play football? :confused:

Lancane
10-12-2011, 05:03 PM
both teams are 1-4... just win baby...

So are we...so shuuuuushhhhhhhh!

weazel
10-12-2011, 05:25 PM
Redheads can play football? :confused:

not according to Madden... ask Ethan Albright lol
http://able2know.org/topic/89777-1

Npba900
10-12-2011, 05:37 PM
Carolina is 1-4 because their defense is downright putrid, their offense is currently one of the best in the NFL and Cam Newton is tearing it up! I don't see Tebow tearing it up though, and I sure in the hell don't see him putting up the same kind of numbers as Newton. The best we might be able to hope for is that he's comparable to Sanchez and Roethlisberger come the end of the year.

I'm just hoping T2 is comparable and consistent as Andy Dalton of the Bengals. I think thats a fair goal for Tebow to try and attain.

Tebow just needs to make strides to get his throwing mechanics to the next level over the next 11 games and perhaps 16 games as the starter in 2012. However, Elway in 2012 still needs to draft another QB to push Tebow IMHO.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-12-2011, 07:47 PM
Red heads are not smart enough to play QB. Name one red head QB in the HOF.

... and they don't have souls. Who wants a soulless QB?

Dreadnought
10-12-2011, 07:54 PM
Red heads are not smart enough to play QB. Name one red head QB in the HOF.

Sonny Jurgensen

jlarsiii
10-12-2011, 09:46 PM
I'm just hoping T2 is comparable and consistent as Andy Dalton of the Bengals. I think thats a fair goal for Tebow to try and attain.

Tebow just needs to make strides to get his throwing mechanics to the next level over the next 11 games and perhaps 16 games as the starter in 2012. However, Elway in 2012 still needs to draft another QB to push Tebow IMHO.

Come on Npba... the dude isn't going to change his mechanics. He has had 1.5 years to change them. As soon as he is actually playing he goes back to his old mechanics 100% of the time. I have no hope this will ever change.

Hopefully he can work on other areas of his game, but this one is as good as dead. It ain't going to change...

SmilinAssasSin27
10-12-2011, 09:48 PM
No way Tebow can't be as good as Mark Sanchez. Not that MS is a world beater, but his team wins games w/ his mediocre play. Tebow can at least do that and add some flare and make plays w/ his feet. Never count out a winner who wants it more than the next guy.

tomjonesrocks
10-12-2011, 09:50 PM
Cam has exceeded expectations so far but that has nothing to do with Tebow.

I don't expect Tebow to do well because all his throws seem to come off his hands like wounded ducks, and I think the 'spark' and rah rah stuff that worked in college combined with 8 man fronts will eventually limit his ability to win games.

That said, I still dumped Bradford for him in my fantasy league.

As others have mentioned though, Tebow seems to have an uncanny control over his own fate right now. Just because I expect him to fail doesn't mean I know more than anyone else. Am looking forward to seeing who was wrong and who was right on Tebow. No more Orton is all good.

Thnikkaman
10-12-2011, 09:54 PM
Come on Npba... the dude isn't going to change his mechanics. He has had 1.5 years to change them. As soon as he is actually playing he goes back to his old mechanics 100% of the time. I have no hope this will ever change.

Hopefully he can work on other areas of his game, but this one is as good as dead. It ain't going to change...

And Tiger Woods never changed his swing. :coffee:

He is young and a hard worker. It takes 500 repetitions to establish muscle memory. If Tebow is going to work hard and dedicate himself to changing his mechanics, it will happen. Pitchers in baseball are constantly changing mechanics. It can be done with hard work and dedication. Its all about developing that muscle memory.

jlarsiii
10-12-2011, 10:06 PM
And Tiger Woods never changed his swing. :coffee:

He is young and a hard worker. It takes 500 repetitions to establish muscle memory. If Tebow is going to work hard and dedicate himself to changing his mechanics, it will happen. Pitchers in baseball are constantly changing mechanics. It can be done with hard work and dedication. Its all about developing that muscle memory.

Wait, did you just compare a guy who plays a different sport altogether to make your argument? I think you did, and poorly.

You totally made my point. Does at least one and a half years of continual repetition earn you the muscle memory to change your throw? With Tebow clearly not...

Thnikkaman
10-12-2011, 10:29 PM
Wait, did you just compare a guy who plays a different sport altogether to make your argument? I think you did, and poorly.

You totally made my point. Does at least one and a half years of continual repetition earn you the muscle memory to change your throw? With Tebow clearly not...

I compared an NFL QB to a golfer, pitchers, hell anything that requires muscle memory. Furthermore, do you know how many times Tebow has taken a snap under center in the last 18 months, with his center? How many times has he dropped back to pass keeping the ball up in that year and a half.

If you can give me a definite number with a reference from where you got this number, I'll happily drop my argument. Otherwise, you failed to produce this metric so I don't see how my analogy is flawed.

If anything, a pass from a QB is not as difficult as hitting a golf ball straight and on target. There are so many little nuances that will mess up the path of a ball when you strike it that deal with your arms, legs, head position, weight transfer, etc... A baseball pitch is more difficult than just throwing an NFL pass. A pitcher is using his whole body as leverage to get the speed on the ball, as well as trying to hide the pitch from the batter, while hitting sub targets in a 2' by 3' rectangle. Not to mention an MLB starting pitcher knows 3-5 different ways to throw the baseball to make it move the way he wants.

Both types of athletes work on muscle memory and mechanics. If they can do it, an NFL quarterback sure as hell can do it. You don't know what Tebow did this past summer, unless you were stalking him.

Finally, I'm not saying that he absolutely will, but the chances of him doing it are way better than 0%.

Finally, the wisest words I can leave you with:

Never say never because it never comes true.

SmilinAssasSin27
10-12-2011, 10:30 PM
Wait, did you just compare a guy who plays a different sport altogether to make your argument? I think you did, and poorly.

You totally made my point. Does at least one and a half years of continual repetition earn you the muscle memory to change your throw? With Tebow clearly not...

And who really cares? Ever hear the term, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? Well...TT had a mighty successful college career playing the way he does. Plenty of QBs were judges for their terrible releases out of college. Rivers and Brees come to mind immediately. Now, of course there are examples for both sides, but when someone wins doing something one way, I'd be very leery of changing it.

jlarsiii
10-12-2011, 10:55 PM
I compared an NFL QB to a golfer, pitchers, hell anything that requires muscle memory. Furthermore, do you know how many times Tebow has taken a snap under center in the last 18 months, with his center? How many times has he dropped back to pass keeping the ball up in that year and a half.

If you can give me a definite number with a reference from where you got this number, I'll happily drop my argument. Otherwise, you failed to produce this metric so I don't see how my analogy is flawed.

If anything, a pass from a QB is not as difficult as hitting a golf ball straight and on target. There are so many little nuances that will mess up the path of a ball when you strike it that deal with your arms, legs, head position, weight transfer, etc... A baseball pitch is more difficult than just throwing an NFL pass. A pitcher is using his whole body as leverage to get the speed on the ball, as well as trying to hide the pitch from the batter, while hitting sub targets in a 2' by 3' rectangle. Not to mention an MLB starting pitcher knows 3-5 different ways to throw the baseball to make it move the way he wants.

Both types of athletes work on muscle memory and mechanics. If they can do it, an NFL quarterback sure as hell can do it. You don't know what Tebow did this past summer, unless you were stalking him.

Finally, I'm not saying that he absolutely will, but the chances of him doing it are way better than 0%.

Finally, the wisest words I can leave you with:

Never say never because it never comes true.

Seriously, compare apples to potatoes much? I think you just tried to do that.

So let me get this straight. Tebow spent the entire offseason before the draft trying to change his throwing mechanics, then had the ENTIRE season to change his throwing mechanics with McD, and then had another offseason to work on his throwing mechanics, and then had the preseason and the current season to continue to work, AND when he gets in a game (such as the 2nd half of the last game) what do we see? YEP, the same throwing mechanics...

The dude will never change, but keep deluding yourself that he will...

Did you just compare a pitcher to a QB? Yep, you did which has no relevance. Did you just make comments about taking snaps from center which have NO BEARING ON THROWING MECHANICS? Yep, you did.

Baseball pitchers spend their ENTIRE careers pitching to hit a target that never changes its depth or position over time, which coincidentally never moves in real time like a WR does during a play. Again, you used a golfer which has to hit a STATIONARY target as a comparison...weak.

You can continue to deny the truth about Tebow's throwing mechanics all you want. You can continue to use worthless analogies from other sports that are not tangible all you want. You can continue to lie to yourself all you want. BUT, the simple truth is Tebow will NEVER change his throwing mechanics and all you need for proof is to watch him play every week. You let me know when he changes that super long windup...:coffee:

jlarsiii
10-12-2011, 10:58 PM
And who really cares? Ever hear the term, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? Well...TT had a mighty successful college career playing the way he does. Plenty of QBs were judges for their terrible releases out of college. Rivers and Brees come to mind immediately. Now, of course there are examples for both sides, but when someone wins doing something one way, I'd be very leery of changing it.

Well, I have heard of Rivers having a sideways release but nothing else. I have never heard about Brees delivery so please enlighten me...

The Glue Factory
10-13-2011, 09:29 AM
Seriously, compare apples to potatoes much? I think you just tried to do that.

So let me get this straight. Tebow spent the entire offseason before the draft trying to change his throwing mechanics, then had the ENTIRE season to change his throwing mechanics with McD, and then had another offseason to work on his throwing mechanics, and then had the preseason and the current season to continue to work, AND when he gets in a game (such as the 2nd half of the last game) what do we see? YEP, the same throwing mechanics...

The dude will never change, but keep deluding yourself that he will...

Did you just compare a pitcher to a QB? Yep, you did which has no relevance. Did you just make comments about taking snaps from center which have NO BEARING ON THROWING MECHANICS? Yep, you did.

Baseball pitchers spend their ENTIRE careers pitching to hit a target that never changes its depth or position over time, which coincidentally never moves in real time like a WR does during a play. Again, you used a golfer which has to hit a STATIONARY target as a comparison...weak.

You can continue to deny the truth about Tebow's throwing mechanics all you want. You can continue to use worthless analogies from other sports that are not tangible all you want. You can continue to lie to yourself all you want. BUT, the simple truth is Tebow will NEVER change his throwing mechanics and all you need for proof is to watch him play every week. You let me know when he changes that super long windup...:coffee:

Seriously, you're not good with the logic thing are you?

Taking snaps from center, dropping back DO have an impact on making a good throw (which also includes throwing mechanics.) If the feet aren't planted well, no matter what happens after that it's going to be a bad throw. Feet positioning is all part of taking snaps from center.

It's like a batter's stance determining how well he hits. His stance has nothing to do with the mechanics of his swing. How many times does a batter in a prolonged slump change his stance and start hitting better? Yes I used an analogy from another sport, because the analogy supports my point. Don't like it? Learn how to debate.

BTW: Batter's don't zone in on a stationary target, but the pitcher analogy works well since the QB is throwing to a stationary spot where the receiver will be.

Thnikkaman
10-13-2011, 09:36 AM
Seriously, compare apples to potatoes much? I think you just tried to do that.

So let me get this straight. Tebow spent the entire offseason before the draft trying to change his throwing mechanics, then had the ENTIRE season to change his throwing mechanics with McD, and then had another offseason to work on his throwing mechanics, and then had the preseason and the current season to continue to work, AND when he gets in a game (such as the 2nd half of the last game) what do we see? YEP, the same throwing mechanics...

The dude will never change, but keep deluding yourself that he will...

Did you just compare a pitcher to a QB? Yep, you did which has no relevance. Did you just make comments about taking snaps from center which have NO BEARING ON THROWING MECHANICS? Yep, you did.

Baseball pitchers spend their ENTIRE careers pitching to hit a target that never changes its depth or position over time, which coincidentally never moves in real time like a WR does during a play. Again, you used a golfer which has to hit a STATIONARY target as a comparison...weak.

You can continue to deny the truth about Tebow's throwing mechanics all you want. You can continue to use worthless analogies from other sports that are not tangible all you want. You can continue to lie to yourself all you want. BUT, the simple truth is Tebow will NEVER change his throwing mechanics and all you need for proof is to watch him play every week. You let me know when he changes that super long windup...:coffee:

Just because you are incapable of synthesizing new information and using it to your advantage doesn't mean other people can't.

In your world, people can't change, and you are a shining example of that based on your ability to debate and use logic.

Good day to you sir.

I Eat Staples
10-13-2011, 09:39 AM
Cam has exceeded expectations so far but that has nothing to do with Tebow.

I don't expect Tebow to do well because all his throws seem to come off his hands like wounded ducks, and I think the 'spark' and rah rah stuff that worked in college combined with 8 man fronts will eventually limit his ability to win games.

That said, I still dumped Bradford for him in my fantasy league.

As others have mentioned though, Tebow seems to have an uncanny control over his own fate right now. Just because I expect him to fail doesn't mean I know more than anyone else. Am looking forward to seeing who was wrong and who was right on Tebow. No more Orton is all good.

This. Wanting it isn't enough in the NFL. Everyone wants it. I don't care how pumped you get your team, if the other team plays better, you're going to lose.

Juriga72
10-13-2011, 11:00 AM
I look at Steve Young... He SUCKED in Tampa... SUCKED. THEN all of a sudden he gets traded to San Fran and he's a god. Put a qb in a system that fits him and guess what.

DallasChief
10-13-2011, 11:14 AM
I look at Steve Young... He SUCKED in Tampa... SUCKED. THEN all of a sudden he gets traded to San Fran and he's a god. Put a qb in a system that fits him and guess what.

All the Broncos need to do is hire Urban Meyer. Boom, National Champions of the NFL every year!

The Glue Factory
10-13-2011, 11:16 AM
I look at Steve Young... He SUCKED in Tampa... SUCKED. THEN all of a sudden he gets traded to San Fran and he's a god. Put a qb in a system that fits him and guess what.

I'd argue that he had a good QB coach teaching him how to be a good QB just as much or more than the system.