Orton's reaction to being benched.

[sneakers]

It almost seemed like he was relieved that it happened. Like all the pressure in the world just went away.

Anyone else get that sense?

Also, don't bash Kyle Orton in this thread. He did try his best I think, but he just wasn't very good given the team that we have.

[dogfish]

"Thank god, now i can make nine million dollars and keep my ankles in one piece. Somebody pass the Jack"

[UnderArmour]

Orton has been benched before for Grossman in a similar situation. Offense was dragging then he got pulled, Grossman came in and gave it a spark. He'll handle this like a professional and if we need him again this season in the event Tebow is injured, he'll be right back out there for us. I wouldn't even be surprised if he re-signed here as a backup if he can't find a chance to compete for a job on the market. With as many dysfunctional situations as there are in the NFL, Orton may want to avoid those and come back here instead. I can't see him wanting to "mentor" another young QB and watch an entire fan base turn on him again. He can easily repair his image here over the course of the next 11 weeks in the eyes of the fans if he says the right things and supports Tebow. Besides, nobody is going to pay Orton money to come in and start for him. The Bears avoided giving him an Aaron Rodgers like contract he wanted by trading him to us. We've given him the bulk of his career earnings. If he handles this right, he'll get Kerry Collins type backup money behind Tebow who plays aggressively.

[Tned]

"Thank god, now i can make nine million dollars and keep my ankles in one piece. Somebody pass the Jack"

You know, if he could just play healthy one year..... Oh, weit.

Sorry, Sneaks.

I don't think he was releived. I read it more as resigned, than anything. I think he still believes that he should be the starter, but realizes that the offense hasn't played well enough for him to keep his job, even at the same time he thinks he should have kept his job.

Also, I'm sure he's both angry and depressed about what this is going to do to his free agent value next year.

[Tned]

"Thank god, now i can make nine million dollars and keep my ankles in one piece. Somebody pass the Jack"

You know, if he could just play healthy one year..... Oh, weit.

Sorry, Sneaks.

I don't think he was releived. I read it more as resigned, than anything. I think he still believes that he should be the starter, but realizes that the offense hasn't played well enough for him to keep his job, even at the same time he thinks he should have kept his job.

Also, I'm sure he's both angry and depressed about what this is going to do to his free agent value next year.

[Juriga72]

I'm sure the first time he was benched it crushed him.... BUT like many other things the more you get benched/traded/benched/benched... you get used to the feeling.

Kyle will be ok, he's a big boy making 9 million dollars while sitting eating pumpkin seeds on the bench. Hey.... MAYBE Tebow can try and get Kyle to be his Gatorade boy.. you knowget him a cup when Tim comes off the field all hot and sweaty from playing.

[Northman]

I think he was relieved. He knows he is getting paid regardless and now he doesnt have to hear the boos rain down on him anymore.

[claymore]

I think he was relieved. He knows he is getting paid regardless and now he doesnt have to hear the boos rain down on him anymore.

9 million dollars drys alot of tears doesnt it?

[BroncoStud]

We'll see how he handles it. "I'm not a backup in this league" wasn't stated all that long ago.

Well the reality is, Kyle, you ARE a backup in this league. Thanks for nothing. To me Orton being a Bronco is nothing more than a reminder of what we had in 2008 that was taken and pissed away in 2009-2010. The sooner he's on another rosther, the better.

Good riddance.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm sure he was a bit relieved. As a player, you want to do your best and you fight to do your best....but when it feels like the fans dislike you, then even at home you are surrounded by enemies, insults, and jeers. Of course its a sense of relief, but no necessarily one he's glad to have.

[MileHighCrew]

I'm sure he is pissed off and feels like he is taking the blame for the enitre team. We have a young oline, lots of injured WRs and a RB 1st rounder that dances in the back field. I can see why he would be pissed too.
Orton didn't perform but he wasn't the only one, so now he puts on his big boy face and takes his seat on the bench, where IMO he belongs. but this wasn't all his fault either.

[camdisco24]

I think it stings even worse when you get replaced and your replacement comes in and almost leads a comeback.

[Npba900]

I'm sure the first time he was benched it crushed him.... BUT like many other things the more you get benched/traded/benched/benched... you get used to the feeling.

Kyle will be ok, he's a big boy making 9 million dollars while sitting eating pumpkin seeds on the bench. Hey.... MAYBE Tebow can try and get Kyle to be his Gatorade boy.. you knowget him a cup when Tim comes off the field all hot and sweaty from playing.

Meh! Kyle needs to stay focused and ready.....We don't know if Tebow can stay healthy for all 11 games, especially if he decides to free-will and run around like the NFL is the SEC.:laugh:

Stay in the Pocket and learn to execute from the pocket Mr. Tebow.....you get injured and KO will take his starting job back.;)

[TXBRONC]

Relieved that he was benched? Probably not. I think he was being realistic. He understood that his performance and the offense in general wasn't getting it done. Imho if he had played well even though is losing games he would have been defiant about it like he was last year.

Even though he accepts it I don't expect that he'll be very helpful.

[jlarsiii]

I think he handled it well. He could have pulled a Plummer and he hasn't so far. They even showed him cheering/clapping on the sideline as Tebow was attempting to make a comeback in the game.

Sometimes you have to look past your hatred of the guy to give credit where credit is due. Kind of tired of reading all the slights and insults aimed at the guy.:coffee:

[Juriga72]

Meh! Kyle needs to stay focused and ready.....We don't know if Tebow can stay healthy for all 11 games, especially if he decides to free-will and run around like the NFL is the SEC.:laugh:

Stay in the Pocket and learn to execute from the pocket Mr. Tebow.....you get injured and KO will take his starting job back.;)

I'm sure Tebow looks at Orton's career as a running QB who NEVER once finished a whole season...and feels this way....:eek:

[Npba900]

I think he handled it well. He could have pulled a Plummer and he hasn't so far. They even showed him cheering/clapping on the sideline as Tebow was attempting to make a comeback in the game.

Sometimes you have to look past your hatred of the guy to give credit where credit is due. Kind of tired of reading all the slights and insults aimed at the guy.:coffee:

You must admit KO must have felt more pressure b/c the T2 fans were booing him 24/7. So not only did KO have to deal with opposing defenses he had to deal with the Tebow fans as well.

KO handled working against 2 opposing forces excellently, professionally, and maturely.

Imagine the home team fans booing you without let up and yet you are willing to give up your health to play the best football possible! But it is what it is.....this is the NFL

[jlarsiii]

You must admit KO must have felt more pressure b/c the T2 fans were booing him 24/7. So not only did KO have to deal with opposing defenses he had to deal with the Tebow fans as well.

KO handled working against 2 opposing forces excellently, professionally, and maturely.

Imagine the home team fans booing you without let up and yet you are willing to give up your health to play the best football possible! But it is what it is.....this is the NFL

Agreed. I don't think most posters will give him credit for it though.

[Juriga72]

Agreed. I don't think most posters will give him credit for it though.

Give him credit for what? going 6-21 as a starter with ONE 4th quarter comeback win in 2+ years?.... Wow

Face it... Its NOT just those Tebow fans booing him... It was BRONCO fans who boo'd him as he threw 2 Pick sixes against KC at home to get into the playoffs, it was BRONCO fans who boo'd him last year in the Raiders game as he imploded.... It was BRONCO fans booing him this week as he couldn't do squat yet again.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I wonder if he is second guessing his choice on not taking a pay cut to go to the Dolphins.

[Npba900]

I'm sure Tebow looks at Orton's career as a running QB who NEVER once finished a whole season...and feels this way....:eek:

Naw, T2 since July has been taking 5 hour energy and getting by with 4 hours sleep due to learning the playbook inside out and preparing himself with becoming the starter and learning how to execute from the pocket accurately and consistently.

Tebow really hasn't had the time to worry about Orton's running ability or lack there of!!! I mean how could he when he's had to concentrate on all his mechanical and fundmental flaws operating behind center and throwing the ball accurately and consistently!!!

Lets hope Tebow doesn't get any of our WR's injured by throwing ill-advised floating-inaccurate passes thus setting the receivers up for the Kill Shot by other Defenses.

[jlarsiii]

Give him credit for what? going 6-21 as a starter with ONE 4th quarter comeback win in 2+ years?.... Wow

Face it... Its NOT just those Tebow fans booing him... It was BRONCO fans who boo'd him as he threw 2 Pick sixes against KC at home to get into the playoffs, it was BRONCO fans who boo'd him last year in the Raiders game as he imploded.... It was BRONCO fans booing him this week as he couldn't do squat yet again.

Did you read the posts?

Credit for not acting like a douche when he was benched. Doing so with professionalism. It has nothing to do with who was booing him.

Like I said most posters won't even give him credit for that.

[Northman]

Agreed. I don't think most posters will give him credit for it though.

Im still not sure what he needs credit for? Being average?

From a personal standpoint im sure Kyle is a great guy and your right, he hasnt pulled a plummer. But at the same time he also overvalued his ability as a QB and had a opportunity to go somewhere where he was wanted initially. Most Denver fans were ready to move on from his services before the year had even begun. Having played 6 years in the league i think we have a good idea of what Kyle can and cant do as a QB. If he truly felt he was a better QB maybe he should of worked harder in the offeason.

[Northman]

Naw, T2 since July has been taking 5 hour energy and getting by with 4 hours sleep due to learning the playbook inside out and preparing himself with becoming the starter and learning how to execute from the pocket accurately and consistently.

Tebow really hasn't had the time to worry about Orton's running ability or lack there of!!! I mean how could he when he's had to concentrate on all his mechanical and fundmental flaws operating behind center and throwing the ball accurately and consistently!!!

Lets hope Tebow doesn't get any of our WR's injured by throwing ill-advised floating-inaccurate passes thus setting the receivers up for the Kill Shot by other Defenses.

Oh, im sure your waiting on pins and needles for him to fail. :lol:

[TXBRONC]

Meh! Kyle needs to stay focused and ready.....We don't know if Tebow can stay healthy for all 11 games, especially if he decides to free-will and run around like the NFL is the SEC.:laugh:

Stay in the Pocket and learn to execute from the pocket Mr. Tebow.....you get injured and KO will take his starting job back.;)

No if Tebow should go down with an injury Quinn would be the next man up.

[BroncoStud]

I'm sure he is pissed off and feels like he is taking the blame for the enitre team. We have a young oline, lots of injured WRs and a RB 1st rounder that dances in the back field. I can see why he would be pissed too.
Orton didn't perform but he wasn't the only one, so now he puts on his big boy face and takes his seat on the bench, where IMO he belongs. but this wasn't all his fault either.

You mean an offensive line that gave up 11 sacks in 2008? Orton is the biggest reason the offensive line has looked so poor over the past few seasons, him and McDaniels high school offense.

[Npba900]

Did you read the posts?

Credit for not acting like a douche when he was benched. Doing so with professionalism. It has nothing to do with who was booing him.

Like I said most posters won't even give him credit for that.

Exactly! KO didn't win the Heisman trophy, college championship, and was a number 1 pick coming out of college. While in Chicago he was a backup. KO was thrushed into a starting job b/c Disaster McD made KO the starting QB.

Like the Soldier and team player he is KO went out over the last 2.5 seasons and has given it his all. The fans booing KO this season has no idea what its like to be a starting QB in the NFL. The T2 fans showed their intolerance and impatients towards KO plain and simple.

Now the T2 fans must take in stride the possible fan backlash, impatients and intolerance with Tebow if Tebow doesn't produce and win games as well.

Remember John Fox isn't exactly known as a offensive mastermind and KO had to learn a new offense while staying in the pocket and running coach Fox's offensive schemes. So give KO credit in this regard as well....there were no baby steps-transition for KO to learn Fox's new system and now that T2 is the starter T2 won't have the honeymoon of baby steps with learning to play from the pocket! as well. The fans may have very well rushed T2 into the starting line up to fast as well. We will see.

[arapaho2]

I'm sure he was a bit relieved. As a player, you want to do your best and you fight to do your best....but when it feels like the fans dislike you, then even at home you are surrounded by enemies, insults, and jeers. Of course its a sense of relief, but no necessarily one he's glad to have.


i wonder why he feels the fans dont like him...or are the enemy??

could it be his slow enemic sloth like play?

or our 6-22 record his last 28 starts?

or his saying the fans dont matter

or him saying he's playing his career best after a 3-10 season

[arapaho2]

Exactly! KO didn't win the Heisman trophy, college championship, and was a number 1 pick coming out of college. While in Chicago he was a backup. KO was thrushed into a starting job b/c Disaster McD made KO the starting QB.

Like the Soldier and team player he is KO went out over the last 2.5 seasons and has given it his all. The fans booing KO this season has no idea what its like to be a starting QB in the NFL. The T2 fans showed their intolerance and impatients towards KO plain and simple.

Now the T2 fans must take in stride the possible fan backlash, impatients and intolerance with Tebow if Tebow doesn't produce and win games as well.

Remember John Fox isn't exactly known as a offensive mastermind and KO had to learn a new offense while staying in the pocket and running coach Fox's offensive schemes. So give KO credit in this regard as well....there were no baby steps-transition for KO to learn Fox's new system and now that T2 is the starter T2 won't have the honeymoon of baby steps with learning to play from the pocket! as well. The fans may have very well rushed T2 into the starting line up to fast as well. We will see.

this is kyles 3rd year in the same offense led by mike mccoy...FYI:coffee:

[underrated29]

What is it about Kyle Orton that makes so many people defend him so much. I just dont get it. The guy sucked in chicago, being replaced by grossman and griese, got replaced here. He does not win games and is boring to watch.

Do you think any other team in the nfl aside from SFO, MIA, and SEA would have kyle as a starter--OR tolerate the way he has played for his 2 years here?


He would have been pulled a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago.




Why do people defend him so much? Topscribe- you too buddy. What is his major enduring trait that he has, that I do not see, that makes you and the others defend him so mightily?

[arapaho2]

You must admit KO must have felt more pressure b/c the T2 fans were booing him 24/7. So not only did KO have to deal with opposing defenses he had to deal with the Tebow fans as well.

KO handled working against 2 opposing forces excellently, professionally, and maturely.

Imagine the home team fans booing you without let up and yet you are willing to give up your health to play the best football possible! But it is what it is.....this is the NFL


quickest way to shut up the tebow fans is ...score....make a play...show some desire and heart...be clutch...and above all win

kyle failed and the boos reigned down

[BroncoStud]

Exactly! KO didn't win the Heisman trophy, college championship, and was a number 1 pick coming out of college. While in Chicago he was a backup. KO was thrushed into a starting job b/c Disaster McD made KO the starting QB.

Like the Soldier and team player he is KO went out over the last 2.5 seasons and has given it his all. The fans booing KO this season has no idea what its like to be a starting QB in the NFL. The T2 fans showed their intolerance and impatients towards KO plain and simple.

Now the T2 fans must take in stride the possible fan backlash, impatients and intolerance with Tebow if Tebow doesn't produce and win games as well.

Remember John Fox isn't exactly known as a offensive mastermind and KO had to learn a new offense while staying in the pocket and running coach Fox's offensive schemes. So give KO credit in this regard as well....there were no baby steps-transition for KO to learn Fox's new system and now that T2 is the starter T2 won't have the honeymoon of baby steps with learning to play from the pocket! as well. The fans may have very well rushed T2 into the starting line up to fast as well. We will see.

Quit making Orton out to be some sort of martyr. He hurt his team in Chicago when he refused to come out of the lineup with a high ankle injury because Grossman looked good taking over when he got hurt. Team misses playoff by 1 game, Orton plays horribly down the stretch.

Bears finally please their fans and get rid of their problem - Orton. We lose our young franchise QB and the Orton-led Broncos lose a LOT of games. He gets hurt (supposedly) and refuses to sit, the Broncos get humiliated by the Chiefs and Cardinals before the interim coach benches him. Orton then has fans in Miami chanting his name but opts for the 1 year payday over a trade that would have put him in a more favorable circumstance. Orton plays like crap and gets benched again.

Orton's biggest problem is that he believes he is a starter. In all liklihood he wouldn't have started a game had Grossman not had major injuries that led to it. Now there is very little possibility that he will ever be considered starting material in the NFL again and it is based on his performance and lack of leadership on the field.

He may or may not be a good guy, seems like he probaby is, but he's not a good QB and had NO business starting for this team for as long as he did. People complain about Plummer, but he took Denver to the playoffs 3 straight seasons and not all that far away from a Super Bowl.

[underrated29]

What is it about Kyle Orton that makes so many people defend him so much. I just dont get it. The guy sucked in chicago, being replaced by grossman and griese, got replaced here. He does not win games and is boring to watch.

Do you think any other team in the nfl aside from SFO, MIA, and SEA would have kyle as a starter--OR tolerate the way he has played for his 2 years here?


He would have been pulled a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago.




Why do people defend him so much? Topscribe- you too buddy. What is his major enduring trait that he has, that I do not see, that makes you and the others defend him so mightily?



so it can be seen at the top of this page

[Npba900]

Oh, im sure your waiting on pins and needles for him to fail. :lol:

I don't wish for T2's failure. T2 is just going to have to prove me and all the naysayers wrong.

Will EFX be willing to change the offensive scheme for a project QB that should have been drafted in the 3rd-4th rounds, but was hastedly-foolishly drafted in the 1st round by a HC who was fired and is no longer the HC.

Point is, does EFX stick to there guns with demanding that T2 learns to play from the pocket or will they given into the T2 fan base and implement some aspect of the spread offense and allow Tebow to free lance? The spread offense last I checked is not the offense used to win Superbowls.

But hey, if you want short term visionless entertainment and excitment to placate the ravenous impatient T2 fan base, then by all means let Tebow go with his instincts and let the show begin.

Once again....we will see.

[Northman]

I don't wish for T2's failure. T2 is just going to have to prove me and all the naysayers wrong.



Thats what everyone except the diehards have been saying. But the way you talk its like if he doesnt get us to the playoffs it means he failed.

[weazel]

It almost seemed like he was relieved that it happened. Like all the pressure in the world just went away.

Anyone else get that sense?

Also, don't bash Kyle Orton in this thread. He did try his best I think, but he just wasn't very good given the team that we have.

maybe he'll go play handball next season :coffee:

[jlarsiii]

Im still not sure what he needs credit for? Being average?

From a personal standpoint im sure Kyle is a great guy and your right, he hasnt pulled a plummer. But at the same time he also overvalued his ability as a QB and had a opportunity to go somewhere where he was wanted initially. Most Denver fans were ready to move on from his services before the year had even begun. Having played 6 years in the league i think we have a good idea of what Kyle can and cant do as a QB. If he truly felt he was a better QB maybe he should of worked harder in the offeason.

Well, the thread title is "Orton's reaction to being benched". All I said is that he handled it with class. I get return posts that talk about how he sucked as a starter etc. that had nothing to do with him handling it with professionalism.

That was all I was saying. Why is it he can't even get credit for that? That was my only point. Not trying to say anything else about the dude or the sit...

[Npba900]

quickest way to shut up the tebow fans is ...score....make a play...show some desire and heart...be clutch...and above all win

kyle failed and the boos reigned down

Meh! KO was never going to win games by himself! He needed a defense for that of which he did not have as the starter. However, he did put up pretty good stats under McD's "Dink-n-Dunk" offense. Now that KO is learning Fox's "Play from Pocket" intensive offense, he's a different QB.

Lets see how effective T2 is when defenses and Fox demands he also "Plays-From-The-Pocket" while reading defenses, making the right throws with consistency and accuracy.

[Npba900]

maybe he'll go play handball next season :coffee:

Maybe KO will go play in Canada and take Tebow with him!:eek:

[broncofaninfla]

I bet he wishes he toook Miami's offer now. Hopefully he'll be a true team player and offer input and support to Tebow during games and practice.

[weazel]

Maybe KO will go play in Canada and take Tebow with him!:eek:

at least there would be no tebowmania up here

honestly, neither would do well in the CFL. Tebow would do better but their styles dont lend themselves well to the CFL game. Tebow would make a good RB in the CFL though

[jlarsiii]

maybe he'll go play handball next season :coffee:


Nah, dude can't move around at all. I bet he would suck nuts at handball. Pretty sure that takes some agility.

[TXBRONC]

maybe he'll go play handball next season :coffee:

Seriously I've read Orton is a very good golfer.

[OMorange&blue]

Seriously I've read Orton is a very good golfer.

The trick is to not move your feet too much.

[arapaho2]

I don't wish for T2's failure. T2 is just going to have to prove me and all the naysayers wrong.

Will EFX be willing to change the offensive scheme for a project QB that should have been drafted in the 3rd-4th rounds, but was hastedly-foolishly drafted in the 1st round by a HC who was fired and is no longer the HC.

Point is, does EFX stick to there guns with demanding that T2 learns to play from the pocket or will they given into the T2 fan base and implement some aspect of the spread offense and allow Tebow to free lance? The spread offense last I checked is not the offense used to win Superbowls.

But hey, if you want short term visionless entertainment and excitment to placate the ravenous impatient T2 fan base, then by all means let Tebow go with his instincts and let the show begin.

Once again....we will see.


this is basicaly the same offense mcd ran...which is a spread offense...without mcd mccoy has went away from that...but the spread is still in the playbook

we dont have to change anything...just open up the plays that highlite a mobile qb

[Npba900]

Thats what everyone except the diehards have been saying. But the way you talk its like if he doesnt get us to the playoffs it means he failed.

No, acutally I see the Tebow experiment not as the long term visionary solution but more so a short term solution duing a rebuilding period to raise jersey sells, bring excitment and entertainment.

Right now, Fox must fight against the will of the T2 fan base from installing small aspects of the "Spread-Offense" while nurturing Tebow to play from the pocket and from behind center.

To be honest I wanted Tebow to be brought along more slowly so as to allow him to learn how to play from the pocket and behind center, while vastly improving on his throwing mechanics and accuracies.

A perfect scenario would have been to allow Tebow to come in and start the
2nd half of 11 remaining games while Orton plays the first half.

But I guess the T2 fans brought enough pressure on Fox, that he had no other choice but start Tebow perhaps a year too early. But I could be wrong.

Its not like in a rebuilding year the Broncos were going anywhere.

[weazel]

No, acutally I see the Tebow experiment not as the long term visionary solution but more so a short term solution duing a rebuilding period to raise jersey sells, bring excitment and entertainment.

Right now, Fox must fight against the will of the T2 fan base from installing small aspects of the "Spread-Offense" while nurturing Tebow to play from the pocket and from behind center.

To be honest I wanted Tebow to be brought along more slowly so as to allow him to learn how to play from the pocket and behind center, while vastly improving on his throwing mechanics and accuracies.

A perfect scenario would have been to allow Tebow to come in and start the
2nd half of 11 remaining games while Orton plays the first half.

But I guess the T2 fans brought enough pressure on Fox, that he had no other choice but start Tebow perhaps a year too early. But I could be wrong.

Its not like in a rebuilding year the Broncos were going anywhere.

I predict Tebow gets injured after a few games and Orton is back in...

[arapaho2]

Meh! KO was never going to win games by himself! He needed a defense for that of which he did not have as the starter. However, he did put up pretty good stats under McD's "Dink-n-Dunk" offense. Now that KO is learning Fox's "Play from Pocket" intensive offense, he's a different QB.

Lets see how effective T2 is when defenses and Fox demands he also "Plays-From-The-Pocket" while reading defenses, making the right throws with consistency and accuracy.


orton put up good numbers while ...LOSEING!!!

dont forget the majority of his...great numbers were in games we was never in...dude got alot of prevent yards....but the league isnt about yards

its about scoreing...and in 22 of his last 28 starts,,,kyle failed to get enough points to win...lotta yards...but pisspoor scoreing

[TXBRONC]

The trick is to not move your feet too much.


That is probably why he's good at it.

[Npba900]

this is basicaly the same offense mcd ran...which is a spread offense...without mcd mccoy has went away from that...but the spread is still in the playbook

we dont have to change anything...just open up the plays that highlite a mobile qb

Thats my point, the league today isn't set up for a mobile QB! This is why the NFL has passed rules to protect the QB in the Pocket. Despite Tebow's size, he will get hurt running around as a mobile QB with set plays designated for him to become a running QB.

Running a Spread Offense has not taken effect in popularity in the NFL is b/c the spread offense will eventually get your star QB hurt! So why risk getting Tebow injured is my question. Tebow's success and longevity comes from staying in the pocket.

I'm you telling man, these defensive players are just licking their chops to knock the ever-loving snot out of Tebow........and they won't care about the fines that Godel will dish out. All these Defensive players will be aiming is getting on ESPN highlights because the "Lit-Up"! Tebow!!!

[MileHighCrew]

You mean an offensive line that gave up 11 sacks in 2008? Orton is the biggest reason the offensive line has looked so poor over the past few seasons, him and McDaniels high school offense.

Clady hasn't looked the same since his injury and Franklin is new. Beadles and Walton are 2nd year players so I am not sure what 2008 has to do with it?

[Npba900]

That probably why he's good at it.

Golfers don't have worry about 300 Lb linemen trying to take their heads off. That helps with their concentration I'm sure.

[BroncoStud]

Clady hasn't looked the same since his injury and Franklin is new. Beadles and Walton are 2nd year players so I am not sure what 2008 has to do with it?

It has everything to do with it because the turnover on the offensive line is largely due to the fact that Orton is a statue and made them appear much worse than they really were or are. You will see that starting next Sunday.

[MileHighCrew]

But they are not the same Oline you are talking about. Tebow is more mobile, that is a strength for him. GREAT I hope they use it. Quoting the 2008 Oline had no bearing on the 2011 Broncos. 60% of the oline wasn't on the team in 2008.
I am not an Orton fan, but I do think he has been a fall guy for a lot of issues out of his control.

[Northman]

No, acutally I see the Tebow experiment not as the long term visionary solution but more so a short term solution duing a rebuilding period to raise jersey sells, bring excitment and entertainment.

Right now, Fox must fight against the will of the T2 fan base from installing small aspects of the "Spread-Offense" while nurturing Tebow to play from the pocket and from behind center.

To be honest I wanted Tebow to be brought along more slowly so as to allow him to learn how to play from the pocket and behind center, while vastly improving on his throwing mechanics and accuracies.

A perfect scenario would have been to allow Tebow to come in and start the
2nd half of 11 remaining games while Orton plays the first half.

But I guess the T2 fans brought enough pressure on Fox, that he had no other choice but start Tebow perhaps a year too early. But I could be wrong.

Its not like in a rebuilding year the Broncos were going anywhere.


While Timmy needs a little more work than the average QB having him sit really means nothing. Having done research and found that of the players i looked at (both HOF and QB's to make the SB) they all started within first two years with many starting from day one. This goes back to the dawn of the NFL as well so it applies both past to present.

At the end of the day it comes down to does that player have the "it" factor. I was getting ready to do another research project on how many QB's today work from the shotgun vs under center. But i held back because of all the Tebow threads lately so i put that on hold for now. But one of the things i found interesting is the rise in the percentage of plays used from the shotgun.

Skimming the surface it was mentioned that a lot of the big plays come from the shotgun formation. It also talked about how some of the young QB's who came into the league came from teams that used the spread offense and shotgun quite a bit. So really, with the complaint that Tebow rarely went under center as one of his biggest negatives doesnt mean he cant succeed there. But, i havent done a full blown investigation into yet as i know that most of the snaps are still from under center but thats just skimming the surface of my research.

Exactly. Which is why when it comes to Tim its just a matter of can he improve in those areas you stated.

[rcsodak]

We'll see how he handles it. "I'm not a backup in this league" wasn't stated all that long ago.

Well the reality is, Kyle, you ARE a backup in this league. Thanks for nothing. To me Orton being a Bronco is nothing more than a reminder of what we had in 2008 that was taken and pissed away in 2009-2010. The sooner he's on another rosther, the better.

Good riddance.
Lave it to you to do just the opposit of what the OP asked.

Kudos. :coffee:

I think there's been enough Orton trashing posts/threads.

Nobody here could hold a candle to his play, let alone show the toughness he has in the light of what he's had to endure.

That compound fracture of his finger would've put most of you on your knees.

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[rcsodak]

I think he handled it well. He could have pulled a Plummer and he hasn't so far. They even showed him cheering/clapping on the sideline as Tebow was attempting to make a comeback in the game.

Sometimes you have to look past your hatred of the guy to give credit where credit is due. Kind of tired of reading all the slights and insults aimed at the guy.:coffee:
Not sure where you're going with the Plummer comment. He was the consummate pro when citler took over. Rallying the sidelines, mentoring.
He flipped off the 'fans' (mtnman), not the team.

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[underrated29]

Thats my point, the league today isn't set up for a mobile QB! This is why the NFL has passed rules to protect the QB in the Pocket. Despite Tebow's size, he will get hurt running around as a mobile QB with set plays designated for him to become a running QB.

Running a Spread Offense has not taken effect in popularity in the NFL is b/c the spread offense will eventually get your star QB hurt! So why risk getting Tebow injured is my question. Tebow's success and longevity comes from staying in the pocket.

I'm you telling man, these defensive players are just licking their chops to knock the ever-loving snot out of Tebow........and they won't care about the fines that Godel will dish out. All these Defensive players will be aiming is getting on ESPN highlights because the "Lit-Up"! Tebow!!!



A lot of teams are running the spread right now.

Look at detroit. They almost exclusively run the spread with a slight tweak, and stafford is in shotgun like 97% of the time.


The spread is here- look at dilfers break down of it. While his opinions on things suck his analysis/studies are fine. And detroit is not the only team to use it.

[rcsodak]

I wonder if he is second guessing his choice on not taking a pay cut to go to the Dolphins.
He had an agreement/contract already set with them and they pulled it in the 23rd hour. Per schefter.

Miami's ownership will never be confused with smart. They got what they deserved.

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[Denver27og]

You say dont bash the guy but say he looks relieved to be benched.. Im just glad hes not our starter.. Getting 9 mil.. Wow mcdik screwed the broncos in so many ways.. Wonder if we lead the league in money paid to backup qbs

[Juriga72]

Lave it to you to do just the opposit of what the OP asked.

Kudos. :coffee:

I think there's been enough Orton trashing posts/threads.

Nobody here could hold a candle to his play, let alone show the toughness he has in the light of what he's had to endure.

That compound fracture of his finger would've put most of you on your knees.

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Which of his benchings are you talking about? He's been benched so many times now....

[Cugel]

Most of this just ain't so. :coffee:


Orton has been benched before for Grossman in a similar situation. Offense was dragging then he got pulled, Grossman came in and gave it a spark. He'll handle this like a professional and if we need him again this season in the event Tebow is injured, he'll be right back out there for us.

That much is true. Orton has nothing to lose and everything to gain by being a professional about things. He'll be on another team next year and wants to leave a good impression.


I wouldn't even be surprised if he re-signed here as a backup if he can't find a chance to compete for a job on the market. With as many dysfunctional situations as there are in the NFL, Orton may want to avoid those and come back here instead.

He wouldn't sign here if his hair was on fire and EFX don't want to keep him. He's a STARTING QB, not a backup in his own mind and he will insist on going somewhere where he can start or at least compete fairly for the starting job. Plus he's making $8 million a year and that's NOT backup money.


I can't see him wanting to "mentor" another young QB and watch an entire fan base turn on him again.

Why he won't stay.


He can easily repair his image here over the course of the next 11 weeks in the eyes of the fans if he says the right things and supports Tebow. Besides, nobody is going to pay Orton money to come in and start for him.

YOu assume that but HE doesn't assume that at all. He expects somebody will give him a starting job and he's probably right. There's always some team desperate for QB help and he's a 9 year veteran who has some skills and can be good (assuming you have a decent OL and some good RBs and WRs and don't ask too much of him).


The Bears avoided giving him an Aaron Rodgers like contract he wanted by trading him to us. We've given him the bulk of his career earnings. If he handles this right, he'll get Kerry Collins type backup money behind Tebow who plays aggressively.

The Bears OWNER said: "We need to get the QB situation right. When that's not right, nothing's right." And then they shipped Orton out. He might have been central to McMoron's trade plans, but he was an afterthought in Chicago. They would have cut him if they couldn't trade him. The owner just wanted him gone. Like yesterday.

It wasn't about Orton making demands and the team not wanting to meet them. They were sick and tired of having a great defense and crappy offense and feeling like they could win the SB if only they had a QB to compete with Brett Favre in that division.

[jlarsiii]

Not sure where you're going with the Plummer comment. He was the consummate pro when citler took over. Rallying the sidelines, mentoring.
He flipped off the 'fans' (mtnman), not the team.

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That is exactly what I meant by the plummer comment. He didn't do anything like flipping the bird to the fans etc.

[Cugel]

No, acutally I see the Tebow experiment not as the long term visionary solution but more so a short term solution duing a rebuilding period to raise jersey sells, bring excitment and entertainment.

Right now, Fox must fight against the will of the T2 fan base from installing small aspects of the "Spread-Offense" while nurturing Tebow to play from the pocket and from behind center.

To be honest I wanted Tebow to be brought along more slowly so as to allow him to learn how to play from the pocket and behind center, while vastly improving on his throwing mechanics and accuracies.

A perfect scenario would have been to allow Tebow to come in and start the
2nd half of 11 remaining games while Orton plays the first half.

But I guess the T2 fans brought enough pressure on Fox, that he had no other choice but start Tebow perhaps a year too early. But I could be wrong.

Its not like in a rebuilding year the Broncos were going anywhere.

Orton clearly failed to ignite the offense. It seemed like he was going backwards instead of making progress. His play got worse as the season progressed.

And I'm a guy who grew to LIKE Kyle Orton because of his toughness and attitude. I disliked him intensely when he came here to replace Cutler, and fought bitterly with "Orton's Army" who were making idiotic comments that "Orton is way better than cry-baby Cutler! Good riddance to that loser!" :coffee:

But, he's a player who plays his hardest and doesn't make any excuses and has limited skills. Most Tebowniacs just hate him because he was "standing in the way of Tebow's greatness" and divine right to be the starting QB or something.

Well, I'm glad Tebow is in now. We can all see whether he can improve his play from the pocket or not and the Broncos can decide whether to go out and spend their top 10 pick on a QB or not.

I don't think that Fox is going to implement a spread offense, but he's going to have to include some of the "Tebow package" plays in his offense to give Tebow a chance to succeed.

But, if Tebow can't WIN with this team then it's Andrew Luck time.

[rcsodak]

Im still not sure what he needs credit for? Being average?

From a personal standpoint im sure Kyle is a great guy and your right, he hasnt pulled a plummer. But at the same time he also overvalued his ability as a QB and had a opportunity to go somewhere where he was wanted initially. Most Denver fans were ready to move on from his services before the year had even begun. Having played 6 years in the league i think we have a good idea of what Kyle can and cant do as a QB. If he truly felt he was a better QB maybe he should of worked harder in the offeason.
So now you know what he did/didn't do in the offseason.

I have some stock options maturing....maybe you can look into your imaginary crytal ball, and......
:lol:

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[rcsodak]

No if Tebow should go down with an injury Quinn would be the next man up.
I haven't heard that one, tx.

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[Northman]

So now you know what he did/didn't do in the offseason.

I have some stock options maturing....maybe you can look into your imaginary crytal ball, and......
:lol:

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My crystal ball says you need better reading comprehension.

Me:

If he truly felt he was a better QB maybe he should of worked harder in the offeason.

[BroncoStud]

Lave it to you to do just the opposit of what the OP asked.

Kudos. :coffee:

I think there's been enough Orton trashing posts/threads.

Nobody here could hold a candle to his play, let alone show the toughness he has in the light of what he's had to endure.

That compound fracture of his finger would've put most of you on your knees.

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:balloons:

Another horrible post. RC, you are consistent, if nothing else. :laugh:

[rcsodak]

:balloons:

Another horrible post. RC, you are consistent, if nothing else. :laugh:
Typical BS empty retort.

The sting in my rebuke, is the truth.
Keep up the good work.

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[BroncoStud]

Typical BS empty retort.

The sting in my rebuke, is the truth.
Keep up the good work.

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RC, there is a reason Orton has gotten and gets bashed. He sucks. He isn't good enough to be the starting QB for the Denver Broncos, never was. If Orton wanted people to shut up and cheer for him all he had to do was not suck and not choke. :elefant:

[lgenf]

I just love how the media is playing to Orton with, there was so much pressure on him since Tebow arrived and he just couldn't handle it.

There's only 32 guys in the world good enough to be a starting qb in the NFL if that's not pressure then what is?

What was different about last years pressure with Tebow waiting in the wings over this years? Oh yeah McD's offense that's the difference.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Props to Orton for handling it like a pro. He hasn't whined to the media, hasn't plead his case to outsiders about why he should still be the starter, and seems to have tried to remain a decent teammate. I expected more pouting and whining and blame deflection from him and it hasn't happened.

He is an okay guy to have around if the worst case scenario happens, but I'm glad he's not starting anymore.

[echobravo]

I think Orton would make a solid backup in this league. When there is no pressure to be "the man" he plays well. He is the type of QB who could go in for relief and not lose the game for you. Kind of like Bubby Brister was for us in 98. Ortons biggest problem is folding under the pressure of being the number one QB.

"The correct compression for adult CPR is two inches less than those ribs you just broke." Murphy's laws of nursing.

[UnderArmour]

Most of this just ain't so. :coffee:

He wouldn't sign here if his hair was on fire and EFX don't want to keep him. He's a STARTING QB, not a backup in his own mind and he will insist on going somewhere where he can start or at least compete fairly for the starting job. Plus he's making $8 million a year and that's NOT backup money.


YOu assume that but HE doesn't assume that at all. He expects somebody will give him a starting job and he's probably right. There's always some team desperate for QB help and he's a 9 year veteran who has some skills and can be good (assuming you have a decent OL and some good RBs and WRs and don't ask too much of him).

The season is still young and a lot can change in the next 11 weeks. Nobody is going to give him $8 million a year on the open market. Nobody. If he can't find a starting job in a functional situation, there is a chance he will be back. Maybe the Seahawks, Dolphins(prolly grab Luck though), 49ers, Washington, Chiefs(unlikely) or Raiders(highly unlikely) would consider signing him and giving him a chance to start? All of those are a stretch though, especially if the Dolphins win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Backup situation wise the only one who would want him is Josh McDaniels who may well get fired in St Louis anyways, making it even more unlikely. Denver is definitely a potential landing spot for him next year if he has to be a backup. Pending injuries and draft positions, the holes around the league appear to be filling up. The usual suspects took QBs early in the draft so they could have an excuse for a bad year.




The Bears OWNER said: "We need to get the QB situation right. When that's not right, nothing's right." And then they shipped Orton out. He might have been central to McMoron's trade plans, but he was an afterthought in Chicago. They would have cut him if they couldn't trade him. The owner just wanted him gone. Like yesterday.

It wasn't about Orton making demands and the team not wanting to meet them. They were sick and tired of having a great defense and crappy offense and feeling like they could win the SB if only they had a QB to compete with Brett Favre in that division.

The Bears went 9-7 and were in contract talks with Orton throughout mode of the year as he was being drastically underpaid going into a contract year(We tendered him). They had overpaid Griese and cut ties with Grossman. That front office had no clue how to evaluate offensive talent and still doesn't. They would have had to pay him a decent salary or franchise tag him if not for the opportunity that came up with Cutler. If you think the Bears were going to cut Orton then you simply do not understand the Bears front office at all. The McKaskey family is pretty hands off and lets Jerry Angelo do what he wants as long as he keeps player salaries low.

If not for Cutler, there was absolutely ZERO chance they were going to look for another quarterback. Hell, Cutler didn't even have any weapons when he got there and he still doesn't have elite players on offense besides Forte. That franchise was not going to risk another first round pick on a quarterback when they could play it safe with Orton. Up until Cutler, Orton was the second best quarterback in the history of their franchise behind McMahon.

[Juriga72]

If not for Cutler, there was absolutely ZERO chance they were going to look for another quarterback. Hell, Cutler didn't even have any weapons when he got there and he still doesn't have elite players on offense besides Forte. That franchise was not going to risk another first round pick on a quarterback when they could play it safe with Orton. Up until Cutler, Orton was the second best quarterback in the history of their franchise behind McMahon.

HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah....breath.. ..Hahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

How did the "Second best Qb behind McMahon" not even play ONE down the year they went to the Super Bowl?

[JaxBroncoGirl]

Orton has been benched before for Grossman in a similar situation. Offense was dragging then he got pulled, Grossman came in and gave it a spark. He'll handle this like a professional and if we need him again this season in the event Tebow is injured, he'll be right back out there for us. I wouldn't even be surprised if he re-signed here as a backup if he can't find a chance to compete for a job on the market. With as many dysfunctional situations as there are in the NFL, Orton may want to avoid those and come back here instead. I can't see him wanting to "mentor" another young QB and watch an entire fan base turn on him again. He can easily repair his image here over the course of the next 11 weeks in the eyes of the fans if he says the right things and supports Tebow. Besides, nobody is going to pay Orton money to come in and start for him. The Bears avoided giving him an Aaron Rodgers like contract he wanted by trading him to us. We've given him the bulk of his career earnings. If he handles this right, he'll get Kerry Collins type backup money behind Tebow who plays aggressively.

Great Point!!! Lets hope Kyle will think positive. The past behavior seems to dictate future behavior, if Kyle was smart and a team player, I do believe the your statement is dead on....

[jlarsiii]

I just love how the media is playing to Orton with, there was so much pressure on him since Tebow arrived and he just couldn't handle it.

There's only 32 guys in the world good enough to be a starting qb in the NFL if that's not pressure then what is?

What was different about last years pressure with Tebow waiting in the wings over this years? Oh yeah McD's offense that's the difference.

Sources please...

Your whole post is bs.

[Ziggy]

I'm rooting hard for Orton. Hopefully some team gives him a huge contract in the offseason and we can get a compensatory draft pick in the draft.

[TXBRONC]

I'm rooting hard for Orton. Hopefully some team gives him a huge contract in the offseason and we can get a compensatory draft pick in the draft.

I believe he's unrestricted.

[UnderArmour]

HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah....breath.. ..Hahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

How did the "Second best Qb behind McMahon" not even play ONE down the year they went to the Super Bowl?
I laugh too when I think about how horrible Chicago has had it with QBs. I invite you or anyone else to name these decent NFL quality QBs who weren't turnover machines. The way things are going, they will run Cutler off a cliff with all the sacks he's taking and they won't even have him anymore.

[Lancane]

I laugh too when I think about how horrible Chicago has had it with QBs. I invite you or anyone else to name these decent NFL quality QBs who weren't turnover machines. The way things are going, they will run Cutler off a cliff with all the sacks he's taking and they won't even have him anymore.

Cutler is being treated like an amateur thrown into a heavyweight boxing fight! I'm surprised he's not on injured reserved with that shitastic offensive line. If Chicago doesn't go out and draft two or three offensive lineman this year, then they need to be sold to someone who has a F'n clue!

[Canmore]

Cutler is being treated like an amateur thrown into a heavyweight boxing fight! I'm surprised he's not on injured reserved with that shitastic offensive line. If Chicago doesn't go out and draft two or three offensive lineman this year, then they need to be sold to someone who has a F'n clue!

Martz is calling the plays and he refuses to acknowledge that the offensive line is just that, offensive. My wife was saying how sore Cutler must be after the pounding he took Monday night. He will never make it through the season.

If Martz doesn't adjust his play calling (and I don't think he will) she is probably right.

[BroncoJoe]

He was clean shaven today.

[BeefStew25]

I believe he's unrestricted.

Yeah that is how comp pics are figured out.

[Lancane]

Yeah that is how comp pics are figured out.

If we get a compensation pick for Orton's ass then the system if faulty somewhere...but I wouldn't complain!

:beer:

[silkamilkamonico]

I laugh too when I think about how horrible Chicago has had it with QBs. I invite you or anyone else to name these decent NFL quality QBs who weren't turnover machines. The way things are going, they will run Cutler off a cliff with all the sacks he's taking and they won't even have him anymore.

The situation in Chicago isn't bad QB's, it's terrible offensive philosophy and development at the QB position, along with almost every other offensive unit. Great example of how important it is to have guys that know what they're doing as coaches and coordinators, which is one reason why I sincerely am concerned about Denver's future on the offensive side of the ball.

[TXBRONC]

Yeah that is how comp pics are figured out.

I didn't think teams got compensatory picks for UFA.

[I Eat Staples]

What is it about Kyle Orton that makes so many people defend him so much. I just dont get it. The guy sucked in chicago, being replaced by grossman and griese, got replaced here. He does not win games and is boring to watch.

Do you think any other team in the nfl aside from SFO, MIA, and SEA would have kyle as a starter--OR tolerate the way he has played for his 2 years here?


He would have been pulled a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago.




Why do people defend him so much? Topscribe- you too buddy. What is his major enduring trait that he has, that I do not see, that makes you and the others defend him so mightily?

I don't understand why certain people defend him the way they do, but I defend him at times when everyone attacks him. I don't understand why you guys hate him so much. He's just not a good QB, and that's that. Its time to move on and we all realize that. But I don't see what he did to become so disliked.

Blame McDaniels, not Orton. Orton didn't lose games due to lack of heart, he lost them due to lack of talent. Its not that he didn't care or didn't try or anything else I hear on here, he just isn't a good QB. If we hated every player on this team who just wasn't that good, there would barely be anyone to like.

[I Eat Staples]

The situation in Chicago isn't bad QB's, it's terrible offensive philosophy and development at the QB position, along with almost every other offensive unit. Great example of how important it is to have guys that know what they're doing as coaches and coordinators, which is one reason why I sincerely am concerned about Denver's future on the offensive side of the ball.

I have a really hard time believing our offense is going to do anything good with McCoy at the helm. Fox is great for the defense, but we need a real OC. I'm hoping we hire one soon.

[Juriga72]

I laugh too when I think about how horrible Chicago has had it with QBs. I invite you or anyone else to name these decent NFL quality QBs who weren't turnover machines. The way things are going, they will run Cutler off a cliff with all the sacks he's taking and they won't even have him anymore.

Well... JUST looking at ChicagoBears.com..... Qb's with better seasons than Orton EVER had in Chicago-

Yards-
Erik Kramer
Jay Cutler
Jay Cutler
Rex Grossman
Jim Harbaugh
Billy Wade
Erik Kramer

Touchdowns-
Eric Kramer
Sid Luckman
Jay Cutler
Sid Luckman
Jay Cutler
Johnny Lujack
Jim Macmahon
Billy Wade
Rudy Bukich
Billy Wade
Jim Harbaugh


So WHEN did Kyle Orton HAVE "One of the BEST seasons ever?"
So far in BOTH seasons...Cutler has throwm for more yards AND touchdowns than Orton did....and won a playoff game...:)

[Juriga72]

The situation in Chicago isn't bad QB's, it's terrible offensive philosophy and development at the QB position, along with almost every other offensive unit. Great example of how important it is to have guys that know what they're doing as coaches and coordinators, which is one reason why I sincerely am concerned about Denver's future on the offensive side of the ball.

Silk... You hit in on the head. They hire Martz from a TV booth AFTER 6 guys turn them down for OC....

They try to force feed a system that has been had, and ONLY worked once 11 years ago....

The sports talk show in Chicago was like..."Hey... Jay Cutler can throw pretty good on the run".....LMAO

[Northman]

Silk... You hit in on the head. They hire Martz from a TV booth AFTER 6 guys turn them down for OC....

They try to force feed a system that has been had, and ONLY worked once 11 years ago....

The sports talk show in Chicago was like..."Hey... Jay Cutler can throw pretty good on the run".....LMAO

Exactly.

Thats why it was finally refreshing to hear the commentators actually understand that Jay was just being virtually raped on every play but he was still able to make some plays which they gave him credit for. By the time he hikes the ball he is being assaulted.

[Ravage!!!]

Exactly.

Thats why it was finally refreshing to hear the commentators actually understand that Jay was just being virtually raped on every play but he was still able to make some plays which they gave him credit for. By the time he hikes the ball he is being assaulted.

Yes, and from two guys that I respect. I mean, it was a showing by the Lions out there.....but it HAD to be recognized just how awful Chicago's OL was. I mean, guys were just running by the Tackles without them even being touched!! It was good to see the booth recognize, and for the nation to see, just what Cutler has to deal with on a weekly basis. Just shows what a durable QB he is and how tough he is, despite the lame bashers on the message board.

[Northman]

Yes, and from two guys that I respect. I mean, it was a showing by the Lions out there.....but it HAD to be recognized just how awful Chicago's OL was. I mean, guys were just running by the Tackles without them even being touched!! It was good to see the booth recognize, and for the nation to see, just what Cutler has to deal with on a weekly basis. Just shows what a durable QB he is and how tough he is, despite the lame bashers on the message board.

Not even counting the false starts. Even though #87 caught the one TD pass he had 3 FS's on one drive. I could see Jay getting frustrated with him out there.

[Ravage!!!]

Not even counting the false starts. Even though #87 caught the one TD pass he had 3 FS's on one drive. I could see Jay getting frustrated with him out there.

Holy crap. I was at home, and not even a Chicago fan, and "I" was getting frustrated!! I mean.. holy shit! They were moving backwards on a regular basis.

[Juriga72]

Not even counting the false starts. Even though #87 caught the one TD pass he had 3 FS's on one drive. I could see Jay getting frustrated with him out there.

Ok... I was smiling watching him walk to the sidelines going..."WTF!!!!" I know I will burn in hell for it....:)

I also saw him hit his recievers in the freaking CHEST on the move from 35 yards...only to see them drop it. God.... I so miss those naked boots he ran here.

[Juriga72]

Holy crap. I was at home, and not even a Chicago fan, and "I" was getting frustrated!! I mean.. holy shit! They were moving backwards on a regular basis.

Think of how he's "Padding his stats" tho...LOL

"You threw for 125 yards on that last drive Jay... HOW does that make you feel?"

[Northman]

Ok... I was smiling watching him walk to the sidelines going..."WTF!!!!" I know I will burn in hell for it....:)

I also saw him hit his recievers in the freaking CHEST on the move from 35 yards...only to see them drop it. God.... I so miss those naked boots he ran here.

Nah, i understand some of the anti-jay sentiment. I really do. The guy's attitude at times makes it hard to root for him. And to some degree you have to wonder if he regrets leaving Denver. He may have disliked McD but as far as i know the team was still with him and yet he felt he would be better off in Chi-town. However, from a talent perspective i think he can be a really great QB, even a SB winning one but the oline and receiver problem is a lot for him to overcome. Add that too some of the stuff he himself is still learning to overcome and it just spells a recipe for disaster. Considering all that happened the other night i really thought he was going to have a worse game than he did. I think he is starting to learn though that he just needs to go with what the defenses are giving him and try to make plays when he can.

[Juriga72]

Grudden said something about the Bears take MORE timeouts due to slow playcalling than anyone else.... Hell they were out of timeouts in the first quarter ( IIRC)...:)

Seriously.... ALL of that and the guy STILL leads them to comeback wins. I so hate McDummy right now...

[vandammage13]

Silk... You hit in on the head. They hire Martz from a TV booth AFTER 6 guys turn them down for OC....

They try to force feed a system that has been had, and ONLY worked once 11 years ago....

The sports talk show in Chicago was like..."Hey... Jay Cutler can throw pretty good on the run".....LMAO

Martz's offense scheme doesn't work BECAUSE of the personnel they have, and to say it "only worked once 11 years ago" is inaccurate.

The Rams went to back to back SB's and were one of the top offensive teams in the league for about 5 years.

I do think that offense can still work with the right personnel. The Bears just don't have that type of personnel right now.

A good coach tailors his scheme to fit the personnel, and Martz doesn't do that...There is nothing wrong with his scheme in of itself, but rather the fact he refuses to alter it to fit his players.

I think Jay would be great in that system if they had a good OL...It is on Martz that he fails to see that his line isn't good enough to use his system.

[Ravage!!!]

Nah, i understand some of the anti-jay sentiment. I really do. The guy's attitude at times makes it hard to root for him. And to some degree you have to wonder if he regrets leaving Denver. He may have disliked McD but as far as i know the team was still with him and yet he felt he would be better off in Chi-town. However, from a talent perspective i think he can be a really great QB, even a SB winning one but the oline and receiver problem is a lot for him to overcome. Add that too some of the stuff he himself is still learning to overcome and it just spells a recipe for disaster. Considering all that happened the other night i really thought he was going to have a worse game than he did. I think he is starting to learn though that he just needs to go with what the defenses are giving him and try to make plays when he can.

The guy that made the Belicheck film that was shown not long ago, was talking on the radio and told a story I found to be VERY VERY interesting.

He talked about how Belicheck knew he was losing his fans and the owners loyalty in NE. He had a miserable first year as the HC, and he was 0-2 the following year.

He said that Bill didn't get along with Bledsoe, and they were not on the same page, Bledsoe wasn't his guy, BUT the entire locker room was on Bledsoe's side. They all loved him, and were fully behind him. So Bill knew he couldn't simply sit or trade the QB without losing the locker room (interesting that some around here don't believe in the "losing the locker room" stuff). He didn't know what to do.

Then the "miracle" happened and Bledsoe went down win injury, and the rest is history.

I found this interesting because what did McD basically try to do the moment he was here? Follow Belicheck's lead and get rid of the QB that wasn't "his guy" and trade for Cassel. Cutler didn't "choose" Chicago. Chicago was the team that put up the ante for the trade.

[Ravage!!!]

I think Jay would be great in that system if they had a good OL...It is on Martz that he fails to see that his line isn't good enough to use his system.

Its on Lovie Smith.

[Northman]

Cutler didn't "choose" Chicago. Chicago was the team that put up the ante for the trade.

Yes and no. Chicago did put up the ante but Culter is a Bears fan and has stated he has always wanted to play for them. Add in the fact that after McD pulled his sillyness Jay had his agent ask for a trade. While i understand Jay's frustration and resentment to McD at the end of the day Jay bailed on his teammates and i can never respect that from that perspective. He was hardly innocent in all that went on with that crap. He's probably learned a lot since then though.

[vandammage13]

Its on Lovie Smith.

Ultimately, yeah the buck stops with him...

[Juriga72]

Martz's offense scheme doesn't work BECAUSE of the personnel they have, and to say it "only worked once 11 years ago" is inaccurate.

The Rams went to back to back SB's and were one of the top offensive teams in the league for about 5 years.

I do think that offense can still work with the right personnel. The Bears just don't have that type of personnel right now..

It worked with a HOF:
LT- Orlando Pace
QB-Kurt Warner
Rb-Marshall Falk

It didnt work in:
Detroit 10-22
San Fran 5-11
Chicago...

They never won a playoff game after 2001 (0-2)

How smart are you if you force a square peg into a round hole? Nah... Its sad to see him try this again. IMHO

[TXBRONC]

Yes and no. Chicago did put up the ante but Culter is a Bears fan and has stated he has always wanted to play for them. Add in the fact that after McD pulled his sillyness Jay had his agent ask for a trade. While i understand Jay's frustration and resentment to McD at the end of the day Jay bailed on his teammates and i can never respect that from that perspective. He was hardly innocent in all that went on with that crap. He's probably learned a lot since then though.

I think it's just coincidence that Cutler ended up on the team that rooted for as a kid. I think McDaniels to a even worse shit hole if couldn't gotten the same things he got from Chicago.

[Ravage!!!]

Yes and no. Chicago did put up the ante but Culter is a Bears fan and has stated he has always wanted to play for them. Add in the fact that after McD pulled his sillyness Jay had his agent ask for a trade. While i understand Jay's frustration and resentment to McD at the end of the day Jay bailed on his teammates and i can never respect that from that perspective. He was hardly innocent in all that went on with that crap. He's probably learned a lot since then though.

Not innocent at all, but he did fly to Denver to work things out with McD. Not surprising (as we've learned about McD since) that things didn't work out well. Then there was the tv interview McD gave. But I think McD was trying to copy Belicheck by trying to remove the "bledsoe locker room presence" before he even encountered it. That and his copy-cat hoodie.

I dont think saying that he always wanted to play for Chicago means he picked, since it was up to the teams to make an offer. I just don't see it as "bailing" on the teammates considering the situation with the coach.

[Northman]

Not innocent at all, but he did fly to Denver to work things out with McD. Not surprising (as we've learned about McD since) that things didn't work out well. Then there was the tv interview McD gave. But I think McD was trying to copy Belicheck by trying to remove the "bledsoe locker room presence" before he even encountered it. That and his copy-cat hoodie.

I dont think saying that he always wanted to play for Chicago means he picked, since it was up to the teams to make an offer. I just don't see it as "bailing" on the teammates considering the situation with the coach.

Bad wording on my part but at the same time because it was Chicago im sure he told his agent to try and make it happen. I mean he just didnt like McD at all, that much im sure of.

[Cugel]

The Bears went 9-7 and were in contract talks with Orton throughout mode of the year as he was being drastically underpaid going into a contract year(We tendered him). They had overpaid Griese and cut ties with Grossman. That front office had no clue how to evaluate offensive talent and still doesn't. They would have had to pay him a decent salary or franchise tag him if not for the opportunity that came up with Cutler. If you think the Bears were going to cut Orton then you simply do not understand the Bears front office at all. The McKaskey family is pretty hands off and lets Jerry Angelo do what he wants as long as he keeps player salaries low.

If not for Cutler, there was absolutely ZERO chance they were going to look for another quarterback. Hell, Cutler didn't even have any weapons when he got there and he still doesn't have elite players on offense besides Forte. That franchise was not going to risk another first round pick on a quarterback when they could play it safe with Orton. Up until Cutler, Orton was the second best quarterback in the history of their franchise behind McMahon.

Well, you seem to know more about the Bears ownership than I claim to. I just heard the owner talking publicly about what went wrong with the Bears season and he was absolutely RIPPING his QB (Orton). Saying that "we have to get the QB situation right and if that's not right then nothing's right" is pretty much saying "this guy needs to be gone."

I can't imagine Bowlen saying that about a player -- unless he really hated that player and wanted him out of town. And when the owner is willing to publicly trash you that normally leads to your being cut or traded.

My guess is that you are right and that they weren't looking to draft a rookie, but rather pick up a FA QB somewhere to replace Orton as starter. Whether they would have cut him is of course unprovable at this point since McMoron's brain fart of trading for Matt Cassel and the consequent Cutler trade intervened.

[Cugel]

Yes and no. Chicago did put up the ante but Culter is a Bears fan and has stated he has always wanted to play for them. Add in the fact that after McD pulled his sillyness Jay had his agent ask for a trade. While i understand Jay's frustration and resentment to McD at the end of the day Jay bailed on his teammates and i can never respect that from that perspective. He was hardly innocent in all that went on with that crap. He's probably learned a lot since then though.

Yes and no again. Chicago did put up the ante but other teams offered a LOT more. That was one of the worst trades in NFL history. The Jets were publicly furious that McMoron refused to even call them back and let them outbid other teams (the Jets didn't have a veteran QB to offer that Denver wanted).

The Redskins and Lions were willing to get into a bidding war with the Jets to offer the most draft picks and the Lions had the highest pick. The Redskins were offering Sage Rosenfels and the Bears Orton and McMoron wanted a proven veteran QB as part of the trade.

But that makes no sense as almost all of McMoron's decisions made no sense. If you're going with somebody else's cast-off QB then you are committing to get a QB in the draft. And, if that's the case, then why not get the best draft pick you possibly can (the Lions' probably since the had the #4 pick of the draft (I think) or possibly the Redskins since Dan Snyder was in full "let's make a deal" mode and willing to pay through the nose for Cutler) -- then draft a QB in 2009 and start training him in your system?

Who knows how many draft picks a proven young QB coming off a Pro-Bowl season would get from teams desperate to find a franchise QB if the Broncos just kept the bidding going and called them all back ("Hello Dan Snyder? I just got off the phone with the Lions and they're offering their #1 pick, the #4 overall. Are you interested in topping that offer? You are? Two #1's and a #2? Great! I'll just get back to you as soon as I hear from the Jets."

But Denver would never find out because McMoron locked in on Kyle Orton almost at once as the best FA QB available which pretty much limited him to doing a deal with the Bears -- who didn't offer nearly as much by way of draft picks as other teams.

Well I console myself that it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway since McMoron would probably have used the #4 pick on Knowshon Moreno. :coffee:

And he threw away the other #1 pick he got for 2010 to move up and get Darcel McBath. If you're determined to throw away draft picks like a drunken sailor then all the picks in the world (Denver had 4 1st rounders in 2009, 2010 and came away with Tebow, Moreno and Ayers) won't help. :rolleyes:

[Northman]

Yes and no again. Chicago did put up the ante but other teams offered a LOT more. That was one of the worst trades in NFL history.

Dont know about that. Although we let a great QB go getting 2 1st's, a player, and what? Was it a 3rd or 5th i cant remember. But, its really what McD did with the picks that continued to destroy the franchise.


The Jets were publicly furious that McMoron refused to even call them back and let them outbid other teams (the Jets didn't have a veteran QB to offer that Denver wanted).

Link? Thats actually the first ive ever heard of the Jets saying ANYTHING about that trade. I would be interested in reading it.


The Redskins and Lions were willing to get into a bidding war with the Jets to offer the most draft picks and the Lions had the highest pick. The Redskins were offering Sage Rosenfels and the Bears Orton and McMoron wanted a proven veteran QB as part of the trade.

Well, who can fault him for wanting a vet? Sage wasnt any better than Orton anyway. But for me i was more interested in the draft picks that we got for Jay rather than Orton. To me, Orton was just a bonus, or in his case bonerless but wasnt the important part of that deal to me.


But that makes no sense as almost all of McMoron's decisions made no sense. If you're going with somebody else's cast-off QB then you are committing to get a QB in the draft. And, if that's the case, then why not get the best draft pick you possibly can (the Lions' probably since the had the #4 pick of the draft (I think) or possibly the Redskins since Dan Snyder was in full "let's make a deal" mode and willing to pay through the nose for Cutler).

Again, although i know that the Lions and Skins were interested i never saw any news about how much they were willing to give up. From everything i read the Bears were the ones to give up the most at that point.


Who knows how many draft picks a proven young QB coming off a Pro-Bowl season would get from teams desperate to find a franchise QB?

Indeed. We may never know since not much was reported in terms of what other teams were offering.


But Denver would never find out because McMoron locked in on Kyle Orton as the best FA QB available which pretty much limited him to doing a deal with the Bears -- who didn't offer nearly as much by way of draft picks as other teams.

Again, have a link for this? All i see so far is you speculating about a lot of stuff with no factual basis.


Well I console myself that it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway since McMoron would probably have used the #4 pick on Knowshon Moreno. :coffee:

Agreed. McDaniels blew everything even when you/us as fans thought he had done something well.


And he threw away the other #1 pick he got for 2010 to move up and get Darcel McBath. If you're determined to throw away draft picks like a drunken sailor then all the picks in the world (Denver had 4 1st rounders in 2009, 2010 and came away with Tebow, Moreno and Ayers) won't help. :rolleyes:

True.

[Juriga72]

Well, you seem to know more about the Bears ownership than I claim to. I just heard the owner talking publicly about what went wrong with the Bears season and he was absolutely RIPPING his QB (Orton). Saying that "we have to get the QB situation right and if that's not right then nothing's right" is pretty much saying "this guy needs to be gone."

I can't imagine Bowlen saying that about a player -- unless he really hated that player and wanted him out of town. And when the owner is willing to publicly trash you that normally leads to your being cut or traded.

My guess is that you are right and that they weren't looking to draft a rookie, but rather pick up a FA QB somewhere to replace Orton as starter. Whether they would have cut him is of course unprovable at this point since McMoron's brain fart of trading for Matt Cassel and the consequent Cutler trade intervened.

THIS ^ was because Orton had:
Losing 1-7 points- 54.4 QBR
3rd down-68.9 QBR
2nd half of games-66.1 QBR
25th in 1st downs
20th in 20 yard pass plays
27th in 40 yard pass plays

WHILE The Chicago Bears punted 96 TIMES... or as many here remember... 6 more time than the 0-16 Detroit Lions


THATS right...with a Runningback rushing for 1300 yards (7th MOST in the NFL) the 2008 Chicago Bears with Kyle Orton leading them...punted MORE than a team that went 0-16....

THATS why Chicago traded (threw in for laundry/ Barrell man) Kyle Orton

[Ravage!!!]

Bad wording on my part but at the same time because it was Chicago im sure he told his agent to try and make it happen. I mean he just didnt like McD at all, that much im sure of.

Not many did get along with McD. Not his players, nor his coaches.... nor the fans. :lol:

[BroncoNut]

I think it's just coincidence that Cutler ended up on the team that rooted for as a kid. I think McDaniels to a even worse shit hole if couldn't gotten the same things he got from Chicago.

I agree. I think you are way off with your assessment North