Elway on Tebow from Total Access...

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Front page news, as John deserves...


http://www.nfl.com/

[Ziggy]

Sounds like it was all coach Fox's decision. I liked hearing Elway say that he's looking forward to working with Tebow in the offseason.

[BroncoWave]

Sounds like it was all coach Fox's decision. I liked hearing Elway say that he's looking forward to working with Tebow in the offseason.

He is the head coach of the team. Elway doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is going to have his hands in who starts. I think he trusts Fox to make those decisions.

[BroncoWave]

It also seems like this is a lose-lose for Elway. If he says it was all Fox's decision, people try to say Elway didn't want it and is distancing himself from it. If Elway says it was his decision, people would criticize him for undermining Fox's authority as the coach.

[scott.475]

It also seems like this is a lose-lose for Elway. If he says it was all Fox's decision, people try to say Elway didn't want it and is distancing himself from it. If Elway says it was his decision, people would criticize him for undermining Fox's authority as the coach.

I understand where you are coming from, but John has a fair amount of executive experience. I don't think he has said it was "all" Fox's decision, so I imagine it was more like, during discussions on team direction and personnel Elway said something like "John, we need something to change. If you can convince me Orton is the guy, I don't think he is, but I will support your decision. If and when you decide to pull the trigger and go with Timmy, I will support you there too" So, I see it as Elway giving Fox permission to go either way, and saying he would support him. I imagine Fox will have 3 years at least with us, so I doubt he is overwhelmingly worried about his job right now. As unimpressed as I am with Fox so far, I really do think he has the team's best interests at heart.

I liked how Elway referred to him as "Timmy".

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It also seems like this is a lose-lose for Elway. If he says it was all Fox's decision, people try to say Elway didn't want it and is distancing himself from it. If Elway says it was his decision, people would criticize him for undermining Fox's authority as the coach.

I didn't get that out of it at all.

I just thought to myself (no worries folks I didn't say it out loud as I watched the interview from my computer), "well, it's good to know he's letting Fox do his job".

Elway has maintaned all along that he wouldn't interfere with Fox doing his job.

Don't you guys think it would be weird if John was calling shots like that at half-time? Aren't you glad he's letting Fox do his job?

[jhildebrand]

The reality is T2 buys EFX time. He isn't their QB but they are seeing if can work. Their clock starts ticking the minute they pick "their" guy. Well played by them.

[Bullgator]

Merill is backtracking a bit... not as big a doosh in this 1... check this out guys

http://search.espn.go.com/tebow/

click on the "Right time to start tebow?" vid

I COULD HAVE MADE A THREAD.... but I wont

[Lancane]

The reality is T2 buys EFX time. He isn't their QB but they are seeing if can work. Their clock starts ticking the minute they pick "their" guy. Well played by them.

I happen to agree with this post Jhil. Starting Tebow gives EFX time to really plan what direction they wish to go - if we think about it logically, Denver was going to trade Orton, now since they didn't trade Orton due to Orton's own decision making, then they had to play him until he played himself out of a job. And that is exactly what happened, now Tebow has eleven weeks to prove that he can be their franchise quarterback and if he doesn't then he allows them the ability to draft their guy with fewer questions, unless Tebow earns the title. Sadly, as it was eluded to, to Elway on Access...quarterbacks are coming in and doing better and better at the position compared to their older counterparts. Tebow has some work ahead of him, if he comes in and is plays like Newton or at worst Sanchez then I believe his job is safe, if he comes in and plays like Gabbert or Henne then he's F'd.

[jhildebrand]

I happen to agree with this post Jhil. Starting Tebow gives EFX time to really plan what direction they wish to go - if we think about it logically, Denver was going to trade Orton, now since they didn't trade Orton due to Orton's own decision making, then they had to play him until he played himself out of a job. And that is exactly what happened, now Tebow has eleven weeks to prove that he can be their franchise quarterback and if he doesn't then he allows them the ability to draft their guy with fewer questions, unless Tebow earns the title. Sadly, as it was eluded to, to Elway on Access...quarterbacks are coming in and doing better and better at the position compared to their older counterparts. Tebow has some work ahead of him, if he comes in and is plays like Newton or at worst Sanchez then I believe his job is safe, if he comes in and plays like Gabbert or Henne then he's F'd.

That's my point exactly. This league has shown that a GM and Coach generally get one shot at picking "their" QB. Either it works or they are out the door.

Even if Elway were to find a way to get a Luck or Jones in the upcoming draft, chances are T2 gets all of this season and a good portion of next season. If they don't take a QB, it allows them to address other areas of concern on this team, and let's face it there are still a lot of concerns (DT). Then when they finally do get to pick "their" guy they will be coming to a team that is more ready and can tolerate a rookie QB a la Flacco, Big Ben, and Sanchez.

[Lancane]

That's my point exactly. This league has shown that a GM and Coach generally get one shot at picking "their" QB. Either it works or they are out the door.

Even if Elway were to find a way to get a Luck or Jones in the upcoming draft, chances are T2 gets all of this season and a good portion of next season. If they don't take a QB, it allows them to address other areas of concern on this team, and let's face it there are still a lot of concerns (DT). Then when they finally do get to pick "their" guy they will be coming to a team that is more ready and can tolerate a rookie QB a la Flacco, Big Ben, and Sanchez.

Luckily for Tebow he will not be held to perfect standards, granted he'll be compared to Newton at the end of the year, but that's a given since Cam had been compared to Tim long before the draft. But I think he's safe if he comes out as a middle of the road quarterback his first year, if he's comparable to Sanchez, Roethlisberger or even Kolb then I believe he'll remain the starter and Denver will focus on other areas of need in the off-season; halfback, defensive tackle, cornerback and so forth. One thing that doesn't help Timmy is the lack of offensive weapons he'll have at his disposal, a receiver like Marshall or Jackson would have been perfect to aid his development, Lloyd has been lackluster this season as has Royal, and with J. Thomas and D. Thomas out of the picture? Shit, at this point if I was McCoy I'd almost sign another tailback and give Moreno a different number and move him up as a receiver - Decker and Fells are likely to be his best weapons in Miami.

[jhildebrand]

Luckily for Tebow he will not be held to perfect standards, granted he'll be compared to Newton at the end of the year, but that's a given since Cam had been compared to Tim long before the draft. But I think he's safe if he comes out as a middle of the road quarterback his first year, if he's comparable to Sanchez, Roethlisberger or even Kolb then I believe he'll remain the starter and Denver will focus on other areas of need in the off-season; halfback, defensive tackle, cornerback and so forth. One thing that doesn't help Timmy is the lack of offensive weapons he'll have at his disposal, a receiver like Marshall or Jackson would have been perfect to aid his development, Lloyd has been lackluster this season as has Royal, and with J. Thomas and D. Thomas out of the picture? Shit, at this point if I was McCoy I'd almost sign another tailback and give Moreno a different number and move him up as a receiver - Decker and Fells are likely to be his best weapons in Miami.

I think Decker, Lloyd, and Fells are plenty for this kid to succeed. Decker looked damn good with Orton. So I wouldn't expect a drop off with T2. I also think the return of Royal and DT can help him quite a bit-Thomas especially just because of his height.

[Lancane]

I think Decker, Lloyd, and Fells are plenty for this kid to succeed. Decker looked damn good with Orton. So I wouldn't expect a drop off with T2. I also think the return of Royal and DT can help him quite a bit-Thomas especially just because of his height.

Decker, yes...he has the height and possession receiver skill set to be a factor. I don't think Royal will be much of anything, he has really been a bust since his first season. Fells is a given, though J. Thomas would be a better target for him and Lloyd? I can only hope that he comes out of his funk sooner rather then later. If D. Thomas can return and contribute, then he'd be that S. Jackson, B. Marshall type receiver that is a perfect fit for Tebow.

It's quite possible that Denver will be looking to draft another big target receiver come the draft if Royal, Lloyd and Thomas don't start contributing more and there are a ton of receivers like that in the draft.

[dogfish]

did he say anything about wanting tebow to fail?


just checking. . . .

[Tned]

did he say anything about wanting tebow to fail?


just checking. . . .

Nope, he didn't. He did say, "you know, the last couple years have been difficult, and I'm hoping we have Luck next year, errrrr, um what I mean, errr, umm, I hope we have better breaks next year....."

[Agent of Orange]

I think Decker, Lloyd, and Fells are plenty for this kid to succeed. Decker looked damn good with Orton. So I wouldn't expect a drop off with T2. I also think the return of Royal and DT can help him quite a bit-Thomas especially just because of his height.

What I'm really looking forward to seeing is how things unfold with the WRs and TEs once plays are extended now. This has been part of the WRs and TEs games that have been retarded by playing with Orton. The broken or extended play often yields opportunities for big plays, especially down field. But the WRs and TEs need to identify what they need to do in given scenarios. For example, if Tebow is rolling out, the WRs should roll out with him. But there should also be someone releasing as a deep option. Its better than even money that Tebow's ability to extend plays will produce opportunities like this. And Tebow also looks downfield. When you saw Decker release deep, thats kind of what you want someone to do. But going forward, maybe that person is Demaryius Thomas since he has more speed to get seperation.

When Im actually at games, thats one of the things I like watching most is seeing how the WRs flow when the QB is rolling out to his left or right.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Merill is backtracking a bit... not as big a doosh in this 1... check this out guys

http://search.espn.go.com/tebow/

click on the "Right time to start tebow?" vid

I COULD HAVE MADE A THREAD.... but I wont

I caught it too. It's kind of hard to argue with the reason behind Orton being benched. It was good to hear him try to be sensible.

We still need to hope Tim gets more accurate from the pocket. I'm optimistic he can do it because he has cleaned up his mechanics a lot. His drops will get better. His release is fine now. I think the rest will come with a lot of reps.

[echobravo]

Firstly I am not a blind adherent to T squared. Secondly I try to analyze things dispassionately. What I am about to ask is based neither on hopes nor on wishes, merely knowing that just about anything can be possible when it comes to football.

There are many questions I do not hear being asked around as I watch the so-called "experts" analyze this move. Most of the start with what if:

What if Tebow (regardless of W-L record) develops well enough through the year that EFX decides to stay the course at QB? (seriously, think about that one without bias)

What if, because of draft order or other factors Denver does not pick a QB until round 2 or 3, instead deciding to bolster other gaps in the team. (not like the team is stacked with talent and just needing that last piece)

What if there has been no plan to this point other than get as many wins as possible this season? (you know, take you battle one step at a time with an eye on the future.)

Not to be a smartass, but what if EFX's guy is Adam Weber?

Finally, what if the guys who actually hold jobs running an NFL team actually know more than washed up former players claim to know about how to run an NFL football team?

"Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she has laid an asteroid." - Mark Twain

[HORSEPOWER 56]

We still need to hope Tim gets more accurate from the pocket. I'm optimistic he can do it because he has cleaned up his mechanics a lot. His drops will get better. His release is fine now. I think the rest will come with a lot of reps.

That's what I was thinking and I noticed throughout the second half that at first, he looked anxious and skittish. You could almost see the smoke rolling out from under his helmet as he tried to process everything. Make a read, make another read, look off a defender, don't throw a bad pass, should I scramble, should I just tuck it and go, pay attention to your footwork, tighten up your throwing motion, etc, etc. As he got comfortable, and as the pressure mounted, he actually started playing to win and his natural ability started to emerge.

He looked uncomfortable because he was out of practice so he was thinking and trying so hard that he wasn't playing well. I liken it to playing music (because I play guitar and bass) in that if you don't play for awhile, you still know how to play, but you aren't as sharp the first time you pick it back up and you have to concentrate more to really "nail it". Tebow needs practice with the guys he's going to be playing with on Sunday. I really think that it will click better in a game or two and he'll be more comfortable just playing than he will trying not to mess up.

[echobravo]

One other thought I forgot to put in my previous post. What the hell happens if T squared gets hurt. Back to loser- I mean Orton. Or do they throw in Quinn???

[Npba900]

One other thought I forgot to put in my previous post. What the hell happens if T squared gets hurt. Back to loser- I mean Orton. Or do they throw in Quinn???

Well with the way the NFL are protecting QB's today, if T2 stays in the pocket he's young enough to probably make it thru the last 11 games in good shape. However, it he starts taking off running there is the possibility he will get injured. Let's hope Tebow shows the discipline to live and die in the pocket and we shouldn't see Quinn nor Orton for the remainder of the 2011 season.

[Tned]

Firstly I am not a blind adherent to T squared. Secondly I try to analyze things dispassionately. What I am about to ask is based neither on hopes nor on wishes, merely knowing that just about anything can be possible when it comes to football.

There are many questions I do not hear being asked around as I watch the so-called "experts" analyze this move. Most of the start with what if:

What if Tebow (regardless of W-L record) develops well enough through the year that EFX decides to stay the course at QB? (seriously, think about that one without bias)

What if, because of draft order or other factors Denver does not pick a QB until round 2 or 3, instead deciding to bolster other gaps in the team. (not like the team is stacked with talent and just needing that last piece)

What if there has been no plan to this point other than get as many wins as possible this season? (you know, take you battle one step at a time with an eye on the future.)

Not to be a smartass, but what if EFX's guy is Adam Weber?

Finally, what if the guys who actually hold jobs running an NFL team actually know more than washed up former players claim to know about how to run an NFL football team?

"Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she has laid an asteroid." - Mark Twain

I don't think any of those are far out "what if's" with the exception of Weber, as that would be very, very unlikely. Possible, but very, very unlikely.

I have been saying since week 1 that I believe the Broncos believed they had a shot at the division and therefore the playoffs, and were making moves based on that. Once that possibility was realistically gone, they start looking at the future, but will still work hard to win every game.

I have no doubt that if Tebow plays very well between now and the end of the year, the Broncos will have no problem going forward with him, and will use the early draft picks to fill other holes. They still might draft a QB, to either be Tebow's backup or compete with him, in the mid rounds, because it's such a deep QB class.

[weazel]

Merill is backtracking a bit... not as big a doosh in this 1... check this out guys

http://search.espn.go.com/tebow/

click on the "Right time to start tebow?" vid

I COULD HAVE MADE A THREAD.... but I wont

small steps

[Davii]

Well with the way the NFL are protecting QB's today, if T2 stays in the pocket he's young enough to probably make it thru the last 11 games in good shape. However, it he starts taking off running there is the possibility he will get injured. Let's hope Tebow shows the discipline to live and die in the pocket and we shouldn't see Quinn nor Orton for the remainder of the 2011 season.

After we're done keeping Tebow in the pocket at all costs maybe we could convert Shaq to a point guard and forbid him from going into the paint, if successful he might come back for a few years.

What other proven strengths can we ensure never see the light of day?

I know, two wheel drive HMMWV's, how about putting props on the sr-71, outfitting a ferrari with a 3cyl economy engine?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

After we're done keeping Tebow in the pocket at all costs maybe we could convert Shaq to a point guard and forbid him from going into the paint, if successful he might come back for a few years.

What other proven strengths can we ensure never see the light of day?

I know, two wheel drive HMMWV's, how about putting props on the sr-71, outfitting a ferrari with a 3cyl economy engine?


^^^ This!!! Why does everyone think Cam Newton has been so successful thus far (not in team wins, but it's not Cam's fault the Panthers are losing he's scoring points and gaining yards in buckets)? It's because they adapted their offense to HIS STRENGTHS and didn't try to make him something he isn't. They don't tell him - "Cam, you must win FROM THE POCKET" whatever that means.

John Elway didn't just "win from the pocket", neither did Steve Young, neither did Jake Plummer. All three had an offensive coach that properly utilized all their skills... just so happened to be the same guy at one time or another. Why must the QB "win from the pocket"? Isn't just winning enough? I've got to quote the late (RIP) Al Davis, "Just Win Baby!" There's no "from the pocket" in that quote...

Shit, Jake Plummer couldn't throw for **** from the pocket but he still won a lot of games in Denver. I'd take a 10-6 record and a playoff berth every year with Tebow over 4-12 with a guy who can "win form the pocket" any day of the week!

[Dreadnought]

What I'm really looking forward to seeing is how things unfold with the WRs and TEs once plays are extended now. This has been part of the WRs and TEs games that have been retarded by playing with Orton. The broken or extended play often yields opportunities for big plays, especially down field. But the WRs and TEs need to identify what they need to do in given scenarios. For example, if Tebow is rolling out, the WRs should roll out with him. But there should also be someone releasing as a deep option. Its better than even money that Tebow's ability to extend plays will produce opportunities like this. And Tebow also looks downfield. When you saw Decker release deep, thats kind of what you want someone to do. But going forward, maybe that person is Demaryius Thomas since he has more speed to get seperation.

When Im actually at games, thats one of the things I like watching most is seeing how the WRs flow when the QB is rolling out to his left or right.

Agreed. Decker has already shown some good YAC potential, he's fast, big, and tough to bring down. Not Brandon Marshall tough, but a legit weapon

[Lancane]

^^^ This!!! Why does everyone think Cam Newton has been so successful thus far (not in team wins, but it's not Cam's fault the Panthers are losing he's scoring points and gaining yards in buckets)? It's because they adapted their offense to HIS STRENGTHS and didn't try to make him something he isn't. They don't tell him - "Cam, you must win FROM THE POCKET" whatever that means.

John Elway didn't just "win from the pocket", neither did Steve Young, neither did Jake Plummer. All three had an offensive coach that properly utilized all their skills... just so happened to be the same guy at one time or another. Why must the QB "win from the pocket"? Isn't just winning enough? I've got to quote the late (RIP) Al Davis, "Just Win Baby!" There's no "from the pocket" in that quote...

Shit, Jake Plummer couldn't throw for **** from the pocket but he still won a lot of games in Denver. I'd take a 10-6 record and a playoff berth every year with Tebow over 4-12 with a guy who can "win form the pocket" any day of the week!

Horse, have you even watched Cam Newton this season? Seriously...He's got the highest pocket passing rating in the league behind Tom Brady, Rodgers has thrown more from outside the pocket then Newton. In fact his numbers are comparable to Marino's from that aspect. Robert Chudzinski is one of those that you consider a student of the game; he's from the Turner/Cameron tree, so he knows the Ohio River/West Coast, he also has a grasp of the Pro-Spread, Pistol and Air-Coryell, the offense they're running in Carolina is almost identical to San Diego's, they didn't cater the offense to fit Newton's strength or they would be running an almost entire spread offense.

As to the rest of what you said I disagree slightly, while Steve Young, John Elway and Jake Plummer didn't work strictly from the pocket - especially Plummer, they were all three capable of doing so and found success in the pocket as well. We can not excuse Tebow for any short comings, it's like buying a new car to find out that the internal parts are of an entire make or model, would you still keep the car? Tebow needs to adjust, if people think that building the offense around Timmy is the way to success, it's also the way to destroy his career. What if we change offensive coordinators? What if Tebow starts to falter because defenses can stop the offense because it's limited? That's not a path to success but to failure! Quarterbacks need to learn to play from the pocket because most offenses rely on that, whether it's the Ohio River, Pistol, Run & Gun, West Coast, Erhardt-Perkins, Air-Coryell, Veer or so on, the only one that isn't would be the Wild Cat and Option based schemes and those are utter horse shit offenses that fail more then succeed. Sorry if I sound snappy...but, do we really want to be turned into a joke because we change an offense to fit one player, instead of conforming him to fit multiple offenses?

If that's the case we might as well start Orton and draft a quarterback and not even give Tebow a chance, because that road will lead to nothing good.