View Full Version : Elway on Vic and Gary today after the San Diego loss
Here's the recordings of Elway on Vic and Gary this morning. He was a bit 'testy' this morning.
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=740&f=222311
Nomad
10-10-2011, 10:25 AM
JMO, Fox and Elway just wanted the fans to shut up and they didn't expect Tebow to come in like he did. They expected Tebow to suck up the joint and they could shrug their shoulders at the fans and say, "see Tebow really sucks". F&E have a big decision to make and Orton's not gonna be the right choice.
BroncoJoe
10-10-2011, 10:26 AM
He totally seems irritated for some reason. It could just be that they lost - and he was just getting into the office.
Strange. I've listened to him for the past two years. He's never been like this.
He totally seems irritated for some reason. It could just be that they lost - and he was just getting into the office.
Strange. I've listened to him for the past two years. He's never been like this.
He's better in the second segment, back to his old self.
Before he came on, Vic mentioned that they reminded him last night that he had the show in the morning and he just gave him a look. Clearly didn't want to do the show.
My take is that Elway isn't used to being a loser, and the Broncos 1-4 start is getting to him, because the Broncos really thought they were going to be sitting in good shape at the bye, rather than one game out of the Luck sweepstakes.
chazoe60
10-10-2011, 10:36 AM
I think it's as I've been saying for a while. Tebow coming in and doing anything respectable puts a monkey wrench in EFX's plans. Neither of them want Tebow but now they are stuck with him. The fans will riot if they go back to Orton.
I do think part of it was Fox thinking Tebow would completely tank.
Hey John's, just play the kid ans see what he's got. Don't torture he fans by putting Orton back in.
underrated29
10-10-2011, 10:36 AM
can we get any recap at all.....really busing at work on phones, but i can still read while i talk.
Northman
10-10-2011, 10:37 AM
Like some of the fans on this board, its hard for Elway and company to accept they may have been wrong about Tebow's ability.
I think it's as I've been saying for a while. Tebow coming in and doing anything respectable puts a monkey wrench in EFX's plans. Neither of them want Tebow but now they are stuck with him. The fans will riot if they go back to Orton.
I do think part of it was Fox thinking Tebow would completely tank.
Hey John's, just play the kid ans see what he's got. Don't torture he fans by putting Orton back in.
According to Paige, who irritates me, but he seems to have a good handle on Dove Valley, EFX is split 1-1-1 on Tebow/Orton.
According to Paige, who irritates me, but he seems to have a good handle on Dove Valley, EFX is split 1-1-1 on Tebow/Orton.
:confused:
So one is in Quinn's camp?
In John's defense, who isn't in a bad mood on Monday mornings? Especially after a home divisional loss.
chazoe60
10-10-2011, 10:47 AM
According to Paige, who irritates me, but he seems to have a good handle on Dove Valley, EFX is split 1-1-1 on Tebow/Orton.
Do we know who is for who?
BroncoJoe
10-10-2011, 10:49 AM
He's better in the second segment, back to his old self.
Before he came on, Vic mentioned that they reminded him last night that he had the show in the morning and he just gave him a look. Clearly didn't want to do the show.
My take is that Elway isn't used to being a loser, and the Broncos 1-4 start is getting to him, because the Broncos really thought they were going to be sitting in good shape at the bye, rather than one game out of the Luck sweepstakes.
I agree 100% with this.
Northman
10-10-2011, 10:51 AM
I still dont know why John would think we would be in good shape going into the bye. I dont even work for the team and knew we would be rebuilding and struggling this year.
Jagsbch
10-10-2011, 10:52 AM
He totally seems irritated for some reason. It could just be that they lost - and he was just getting into the office.
Strange. I've listened to him for the past two years. He's never been like this.
This is exactly what I expect from Elway given the fact that the fans have forced his hand to play Tebow. It is as if John is seeing his intent to be in the Luck sweepstakes slip right through his diabolical fingers...
John can't help but reveal his frustrations as a result of his failed endeavor to go after Luck next season, by tieing the hitch of this teams wagon to a loser rather than a winner. Now that the fans have him tieing the wagon hitch to Tebow, Elway is boiling.
Do we know who is for who?
No. Although if I remember correctly Paige said that Fox cast the deciding vote. So, if my memory is correct, then I think it would likely be Xanders in Tebow's corner, Elway in Orton's and Fox indifferent, and chose Orton as the vet.
I still dont know why John would think we would be in good shape going into the bye. I dont even work for the team and knew we would be rebuilding and struggling this year.
I know many fans were in the "we're rebuilding, nobody thinks we can win" but I'm pretty confident that the Broncos didn't look at it that way. They felt that they made strategic moves in FA (McGahee, TE's, DTs) and hit on some draftees that could contribute right away.
They expected their defense to be much improved, and have the ability to run the ball. Combine that with Orton looking great in training camp (no need to comment on this, as we've all seen TC Orton vs. game Orton), and they felt they could enter the bye 3-2 or 4-1 and be in a position to win the division.
rationalfan
10-10-2011, 11:05 AM
i'm in the "elway is irritated by losing" camp. i've seen that look people have referenced before. it was after losses while elway was the QB. no surprise.
personally: enough with the tebow conspiracy theories. the fans didn't force fox to play tebow. orton's poor play forced fox to play tebow. simple.
rationalfan
10-10-2011, 11:06 AM
No. Although if I remember correctly Paige said that Fox cast the deciding vote. So, if my memory is correct, then I think it would likely be Xanders in Tebow's corner, Elway in Orton's and Fox indifferent, and chose Orton as the vet.
totally agree.
jhildebrand
10-10-2011, 11:09 AM
JMO, Fox and Elway just wanted the fans to shut up and they didn't expect Tebow to come in like he did. They expected Tebow to suck up the joint and they could shrug their shoulders at the fans and say, "see Tebow really sucks". F&E have a big decision to make and Orton's not gonna be the right choice.
I suggested this was the case in the Dallas game.
Tebow came in and did well. It only brought the noise level up even more for T2. It back fired on them.
Lancane
10-10-2011, 11:10 AM
This is exactly what I expect from Elway given the fact that the fans have forced his hand to play Tebow. It is as if John is seeing his intent to be in the Luck sweepstakes slip right through his diabolical fingers...
John can't help but reveal his frustrations as a result of his failed endeavor to go after Luck next season, by tieing the hitch of this teams wagon to a loser rather than a winner. Now that the fans have him tieing the wagon hitch to Tebow, Elway is boiling.
Conspiracy seems to be the only thing you can see, completely ignoring the football aspects.
Tebow will have is chance to show what he can do, alone his presence isn't enough to better the team good enough to beat three-quarters of the teams left on our schedule, so he's going to need to prove himself. If he suddenly has nine, maybe ten games of only 200 or so yards through the air, we'll still be drafting a quarterback - bank on it.
Northman
10-10-2011, 11:12 AM
I know many fans were in the "we're rebuilding, nobody thinks we can win" but I'm pretty confident that the Broncos didn't look at it that way. They felt that they made strategic moves in FA (McGahee, TE's, DTs) and hit on some draftees that could contribute right away.
They expected their defense to be much improved, and have the ability to run the ball. Combine that with Orton looking great in training camp (no need to comment on this, as we've all seen TC Orton vs. game Orton), and they felt they could enter the bye 3-2 or 4-1 and be in a position to win the division.
Oh, im not denying that the FO "believed" they could win. I just never saw it even with the signings. The team had hit rock bottom and there wasnt enough talent in depth nor the experience (youth) to make such a drastic change like that. Especially not in a short offseason.
No. Although if I remember correctly Paige said that Fox cast the deciding vote. So, if my memory is correct, then I think it would likely be Xanders in Tebow's corner, Elway in Orton's and Fox indifferent, and chose Orton as the vet.
Here's the Paige quote:
The squabbles are not only vibrant on the streets of Denver. There is division everywhere inside and outside the organization.
Pat Bowlen and Elway debate; Elway and Brian Xanders discuss; EFX — Elway, Fox and Xanders — ponder; offensive coordinator Mike McCoy, quarterbacks coach Adam Gase and Fox deliberate; other assistants and players share their private opinions.
Xanders isn't telling Fox what to do. And Elway will not overrule the coach.
Truth is, EFX is 1-1-1 on the two quarterbacks.
So Fox breaks the tie.
Read more: Paige: There's no silencing all the Tim Tebow talk in Denver - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19034747#ixzz1aObyKOvk
Rereading that, assuming he's accurate in his knowledge/assessment of what's going on, then this line "Xanders isn't telling Fox what to do. And Elway will not overrule the coach" could indicate that Elway is in Tebow's camp, since Paige says that Elway will not overrule the coach. Since Orton was the QB at the time, overruling the coach would be going to Tebow.
jhildebrand
10-10-2011, 11:13 AM
John can't help but reveal his frustrations as a result of his failed endeavor to go after Luck next season,
People. Wake up. Smell the coffee. Denver is already out of the Luck sweepstakes.
Indy and Miami will both probably go winless! Indy most definitely lost that game on purpose yesterday.
Oh, im not denying that the FO "believed" they could win. I just never saw it even with the signings. The team had hit rock bottom and there wasnt enough talent in depth nor the experience (youth) to make such a drastic change like that. Especially not in a short offseason.
Well, it was all contingent on limited injuries. The FO would be the first to tell you that while they thought they had starters in place that could compete, they don't yet have the depth you need to deal with injuries.
jhildebrand
10-10-2011, 11:16 AM
Am I crazy to think Bowlen might have had a hand in making the call yesterday? :confused:
Once again, this was looking like another home blowout to a division opponent. The fans were leaving in droves in the 2nd Quarter especially when SD scored late. By the way, I said at the time Fox did Orton no favors calling 3 pass plays like that because SD could score fast. They did.
I think Bowlen saw all them $$$$ signs walking out and maybe just realized what the rest of the home games were going to look like. He may not have made the call but he may have applied some pressure.
I caught after the game the McCoy told T2 going into the LR to be ready and that he was up. Fox almost seemed a littled caught off guard with all of this.
People. Wake up. Smell the coffee. Denver is already out of the Luck sweepstakes.
Indy and Miami will both probably go winless! Indy most definitely lost that game on purpose yesterday.
I have been saying for a long time that I don't think the Broncos will be in the Luck sweepstakes. As bad as they are, they are good enough (especially with Tebow in) to win a few games at minimum.
That said, I think it's very unlikely either Miami or Indy goes winless. It's almost as hard to go winless in this league as it is to go undefeated.
jhildebrand
10-10-2011, 11:20 AM
I have been saying for a long time that I don't think the Broncos will be in the Luck sweepstakes. As bad as they are, they are good enough (especially with Tebow in) to win a few games at minimum.
That said, I think it's very unlikely either Miami or Indy goes winless. It's almost as hard to go winless in this league as it is to go undefeated.
Well Indy giving up a 24 point lead sure looks like they will do anything to prevent winning.
I just wonder if Manning isnt closer to done moreso than anybody realizes.
Jagsbch
10-10-2011, 11:23 AM
People. Wake up. Smell the coffee. Denver is already out of the Luck sweepstakes.
Indy and Miami will both probably go winless! Indy most definitely lost that game on purpose yesterday.
Hence even further frustraitions for Elway:rolleyes:
red98
10-10-2011, 11:25 AM
This is exactly what I expect from Elway given the fact that the fans have forced his hand to play Tebow. It is as if John is seeing his intent to be in the Luck sweepstakes slip right through his diabolical fingers...
John can't help but reveal his frustrations as a result of his failed endeavor to go after Luck next season, by tieing the hitch of this teams wagon to a loser rather than a winner. Now that the fans have him tieing the wagon hitch to Tebow, Elway is boiling.
When I read your deranged posts, it makes me want the Broncos to win the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes even more.
arapaho2
10-10-2011, 11:28 AM
kinda off topic ....but it would suck to see a team like the colts go from manning to luck
most other teams have years of failure after losing a hof qb, before getting another shot at a franchise
Am I crazy to think Bowlen might have had a hand in making the call yesterday? :confused:
Once again, this was looking like another home blowout to a division opponent. The fans were leaving in droves in the 2nd Quarter especially when SD scored late. By the way, I said at the time Fox did Orton no favors calling 3 pass plays like that because SD could score fast. They did.
I think Bowlen saw all them $$$$ signs walking out and maybe just realized what the rest of the home games were going to look like. He may not have made the call but he may have applied some pressure.
I caught after the game the McCoy told T2 going into the LR to be ready and that he was up. Fox almost seemed a littled caught off guard with all of this.
During the game, I would say there is almost zero chance that Bowlen had any influence. First, he's backed away from much of the day to day operations. Second, he's never been the kind of owner that tells his coaches what to do.
Now, do I think that Elway, Ellis and possibly Bowlen have had conversations about the number of season ticket cancellations the last couple years, the number of no shows, the clear fan outrage over Orton's, the teams of course, performance? Yes, for sure. So, there is no doubt that Fox understand that aspect of it, but I don't think there is much, if any, chance that Bowlen was involved in the game mid-game.
Npba900
10-10-2011, 01:43 PM
I think it's as I've been saying for a while. Tebow coming in and doing anything respectable puts a monkey wrench in EFX's plans. Neither of them want Tebow but now they are stuck with him. The fans will riot if they go back to Orton.
I do think part of it was Fox thinking Tebow would completely tank.
Hey John's, just play the kid ans see what he's got. Don't torture he fans by putting Orton back in.
I can see this scenario happening only if Orton is injured and unable to play and then Tebow plays much better and Orton can't win his job back. Everyone knows Tebow has had great difficulty playing all 16 games.
If Tebow gets injured, Fox could allow Tebow to start the first half and Quinn the 2nd half!
However, to just abruptly bench Orton now and giving the nod and start Tebow, EFX would be giving into mob rule from the fans! I don't think as HC and GM you want the fans telling you what to do.
Not saying this could happen, however, EFX rather than give into Mob Rule would probably much rather trade Tebow vs allowing the fans to decide who should be starting.
EFX could compromise however, with the understanding the team isn't going to the playoffs and simple say Orton will play the first half and Tebow or Quinn will start the 2nd half of the remaining 11 games in 2011.
Day1BroncoFan
10-10-2011, 01:58 PM
If they really are "playing for Luck"...
If they don't at least give Tebow a chance...
They are bigger fools in the FO than we give them credit for and they are the ones that need to go.
Npba900
10-10-2011, 02:01 PM
Like some of the fans on this board, its hard for Elway and company to accept they may have been wrong about Tebow's ability.
Tebow's play surprised everyone, even the SD Chargers! What happens when Tebow doesn't surprise anymore? And teams begin to game plan and watch tapes on his tendencies, strong points, and weaknesses! This will be the true test. Tebow overcomes and performs well with teams game planning against him......then I'll start coming around!!!
Day1BroncoFan
10-10-2011, 02:03 PM
Tebow's play surprised everyone, even the SD Chargers! What happens when Tebow doesn't surprise anymore? And teams begin to game plan and watch tapes on his tendencies, strong points, and weaknesses! This will be the true test. Tebow overcomes and performs well with teams game planning against him......then I'll start coming around!!!
We need to find out so let him play.
Northman
10-10-2011, 02:07 PM
Tebow's play surprised everyone, even the SD Chargers!
He did? Not to me. I saw yesterday what i saw at the end of last season so it shouldnt of been a surprise to anyone including the Chargers. Tim did exactly what (i think most of us) thought he could do.
What happens when Tebow doesn't surprise anymore? And teams begin to game plan and watch tapes on his tendencies, strong points, and weaknesses! This will be the true test. Tebow overcomes and performs well with teams game planning against him......then I'll start coming around!!!
What happens when Newton doesnt surprise anymore? Bradford is having a HORRIBLE year but i dont think we can put all the blame no him right? Sure, Tebow has a ways to go yet in his maturation process as a QB. But every week teams gameplan for opposing QB's. Newton is out to a fast start but just like Tebow once they get all the film on him he will need to continue to prove he is their guy.
lgenf
10-10-2011, 02:07 PM
Tebow's play surprised everyone, even the SD Chargers! What happens when Tebow doesn't surprise anymore? And teams begin to game plan and watch tapes on his tendencies, strong points, and weaknesses! This will be the true test. Tebow overcomes and performs well with teams game planning against him......then I'll start coming around!!!
ummm....didn't they play against T2 the last game of the year, and didn't he almost beat them then with a last second throw.
and didn't he start the previous two games before that, and they knew he was going to be the starting QB then also?
seems to me that he is going to do what he needs to do and defenses may or may not stop him just like every other offense out there in the league
Npba900
10-10-2011, 02:08 PM
If they really are "playing for Luck"...
If they don't at least give Tebow a chance...
They are bigger fools in the FO than we give them credit for and they are the ones that need to go.
Are the other organizations/FO sucking for Luck fools as well? Hell, the Colts have more talent man-for-man for than the Broncos and with no Peyton Manning, could be sucking for Luck as well. If the Colts are able to draft Luck and Peyton plays only 3 more years (he'll be 37 by then), we now have the Farve--Rodgers scenario all over again!!!
lgenf
10-10-2011, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=Northman;1392118]He did? Not to me. I saw yesterday what i saw at the end of last season so it shouldnt of been a surprise to anyone including the Chargers. Tim did exactly what (i think most of us) thought he could do.
QUOTE]
exactly North
he played those same Chargers the last week of last season and they couldn't stop him then either
only differences this time were
1- our D actually stopped them a few times
2 - T2 only had a half to play against them with no practice during hte week
with that info I would bet we have a good chance of beating them with him playing all game
silkamilkamonico
10-10-2011, 02:16 PM
Indy and Miami will both probably go winless! Indy most definitely lost that game on purpose yesterday.
Neither one of these teams will go winless. Indy is actually competing week in and week out. Denver is very much in the Luck sweepstakes whether people want to admit it or not.
Northman
10-10-2011, 02:29 PM
Neither one of these teams will go winless. Indy is actually competing week in and week out. Denver is very much in the Luck sweepstakes whether people want to admit it or not.
Indeed. Nothing right now tells me Denver is any better than those teams with 0-1 wins on the season.
HORSEPOWER 56
10-10-2011, 02:34 PM
This is exactly what I expect from Elway given the fact that the fans have forced his hand to play Tebow. It is as if John is seeing his intent to be in the Luck sweepstakes slip right through his diabolical fingers...
John can't help but reveal his frustrations as a result of his failed endeavor to go after Luck next season, by tieing the hitch of this teams wagon to a loser rather than a winner. Now that the fans have him tieing the wagon hitch to Tebow, Elway is boiling.
Seeing as how you are neither a Broncos fan nor a John Elway fan who obviously feels that the team doesn't have you or Tebow's best interests in mind, feel free to post directly in either the "Black Hole" or in the "Smack" forums. Your incessant need to belligerently attack anyone or anything not Tebow has you branded officially as a Troll. Go troll elsewhere.
As a mod, I take my responsibilities seriously. From now on, I will move any and all of your Tebow troll threads directly to the "Black Hole" so you can have fun belittling the Broncos and everything not Tebow with your only friend, you. Your Tebow troll posts will be deleted as spam.
Tned didn't create this MB to be overrun by a non-Broncos fan troll posting bullshit about one player and insulting others who don't agree. Discuss BRONCOS football or leave. It's that simple.
HORSEPOWER 56
10-10-2011, 02:42 PM
He totally seems irritated for some reason. It could just be that they lost - and he was just getting into the office.
Strange. I've listened to him for the past two years. He's never been like this.
Honestly, I think Elway is probably under the gun from Bowlen about money and got a phone call last night after Tebow went in. Playing Tebow has some serious financial implications for Bowlen. John's an executive now. Fiscal responsibility and money management are now on his radar. Bowlen probably is none to happy about the idea of having to shell out another $11 million to Tebow if he gets over 50% of the snaps this year all while paying Orton $9 million.
Follow the money. Money rules the world. It's the reason Tim wasn't starting from day one. The "best chance to win" argument was just a smokescreen to cover for the money issue which has been exposed. I'd bet Elway is more frustrated by losing knowing Tim was on the bench but unable to play him without cause based on finances.
Nomad
10-10-2011, 02:58 PM
sounds convincing HP! It's probably a mixture of lossing, the FO exec responsibility, and Tebow playing as well as he did.
Honestly, I think Elway is probably under the gun from Bowlen about money and got a phone call last night after Tebow went in. Playing Tebow has some serious financial implications for Bowlen. John's an executive now. Fiscal responsibility and money management are now on his radar. Bowlen probably is none to happy about the idea of having to shell out another $11 million to Tebow if he gets over 50% of the snaps this year all while paying Orton $9 million.
Follow the money. Money rules the world. It's the reason Tim wasn't starting from day one. The "best chance to win" argument was just a smokescreen to cover for the money issue which has been exposed. I'd bet Elway is more frustrated by losing knowing Tim was on the bench but unable to play him without cause based on finances.
Just my two cents, but I think you're reading waaaay too much into it. He probably just hadn't had his coffee yet and hates losing to Phillip Rivers as much as everyone else.
Northman
10-10-2011, 03:02 PM
Seeing as how you are neither a Broncos fan nor a John Elway fan who obviously feels that the team doesn't have you or Tebow's best interests in mind, feel free to post directly in either the "Black Hole" or in the "Smack" forums. Your incessant need to belligerently attack anyone or anything not Tebow has you branded officially as a Troll. Go troll elsewhere.
As a mod, I take my responsibilities seriously. From now on, I will move any and all of your Tebow troll threads directly to the "Black Hole" so you can have fun belittling the Broncos and everything not Tebow with your only friend, you. Your Tebow troll posts will be deleted as spam.
Tned didn't create this MB to be overrun by a non-Broncos fan troll posting bullshit about one player and insulting others who don't agree. Discuss BRONCOS football or leave. It's that simple.
Good call. Its hard to have civil discussions on here when you have individuals with their own agenda. The fact that Jags shows up and starts trolling threads again is uncalled for.
Honestly, I think Elway is probably under the gun from Bowlen about money and got a phone call last night after Tebow went in. Playing Tebow has some serious financial implications for Bowlen. John's an executive now. Fiscal responsibility and money management are now on his radar. Bowlen probably is none to happy about the idea of having to shell out another $11 million to Tebow if he gets over 50% of the snaps this year all while paying Orton $9 million.
Follow the money. Money rules the world. It's the reason Tim wasn't starting from day one. The "best chance to win" argument was just a smokescreen to cover for the money issue which has been exposed. I'd bet Elway is more frustrated by losing knowing Tim was on the bench but unable to play him without cause based on finances.
I'm going to sound like a broken record, but this misinformation keeps getting repeated. Based on the information that's out there, it is nearly impossible that Tebow will reach $11 million in escalators in his contract. It takes much more than taking 50% of the snaps, and would also require playoff appearances, MVP awards, pro-bowl appearances, leading QB rankings, etc.
The fact is that if he met all the requirements needed to have his contract go from $11-$22 million, Bowlen would be more than happy to pay the money.
G_Money
10-10-2011, 03:45 PM
I'm going to sound like a broken record, but this misinformation keeps getting repeated. Based on the information that's out there, it is nearly impossible that Tebow will reach $11 million in escalators in his contract. It takes much more than taking 50% of the snaps, and would also require playoff appearances, MVP awards, pro-bowl appearances, leading QB rankings, etc.
The fact is that if he met all the requirements needed to have his contract go from $11-$22 million, Bowlen would be more than happy to pay the money.
I'd pay him 11 million dollars just to have the stadium rocking like that for the rest of the home games. Mile High sounding like Jacksonville is wrong on so many levels... :tsk:
Tim has a lot to prove, but at least he can go about putting some actual results to all the theories about him now. I'm glad we didn't wait any longer to get going on the Tebow Era.
It might only last 11 more games, but it was time to start it.
Win a few games with some progress by Timmy and see if we don't draft a Stanford player - Jonathan Martin to protect Tebow's blind side instead of Luck, though.
The rest of the season will be eminently watchable either way, thank God. :salute:
~G
Northman
10-10-2011, 03:49 PM
I'd pay him 11 million dollars just to have the stadium rocking like that for the rest of the home games. Mile High sounding like Jacksonville is wrong on so many levels... :tsk:
Tim has a lot to prove, but at least he can go about putting some actual results to all the theories about him now. I'm glad we didn't wait any longer to get going on the Tebow Era.
It might only last 11 more games, but it was time to start it.
Win a few games with some progress by Timmy and see if we don't draft a Stanford player - Jonathan Martin to protect Tebow's blind side instead of Luck, though.
The rest of the season will be eminently watchable either way, thank God. :salute:
~G
In a way i attibute it too the Plummer/Cutler thing. When Jay came in i just felt like we always had a chance. With Jake, not so much. And while im not QUITE as confident in Tim as i was in Jay i still feel more excited and have more hope when Tim is in there than Kyle.
Day1BroncoFan
10-10-2011, 04:13 PM
Are the other organizations/FO sucking for Luck fools as well? Hell, the Colts have more talent man-for-man for than the Broncos and with no Peyton Manning, could be sucking for Luck as well. If the Colts are able to draft Luck and Peyton plays only 3 more years (he'll be 37 by then), we now have the Farve--Rodgers scenario all over again!!!
Don't care about the Colts or any other orginizations.
BroncoStud
10-10-2011, 05:00 PM
I can see this scenario happening only if Orton is injured and unable to play and then Tebow plays much better and Orton can't win his job back. Everyone knows Tebow has had great difficulty playing all 16 games.
If Tebow gets injured, Fox could allow Tebow to start the first half and Quinn the 2nd half!
However, to just abruptly bench Orton now and giving the nod and start Tebow, EFX would be giving into mob rule from the fans! I don't think as HC and GM you want the fans telling you what to do.
Not saying this could happen, however, EFX rather than give into Mob Rule would probably much rather trade Tebow vs allowing the fans to decide who should be starting.
EFX could compromise however, with the understanding the team isn't going to the playoffs and simple say Orton will play the first half and Tebow or Quinn will start the 2nd half of the remaining 11 games in 2011.
Is this real? :laugh:
BroncoJoe
10-10-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm going to sound like a broken record, but this misinformation keeps getting repeated. Based on the information that's out there, it is nearly impossible that Tebow will reach $11 million in escalators in his contract. It takes much more than taking 50% of the snaps, and would also require playoff appearances, MVP awards, pro-bowl appearances, leading QB rankings, etc.
The fact is that if he met all the requirements needed to have his contract go from $11-$22 million, Bowlen would be more than happy to pay the money.
Wasn't it recently reported they restructured Tim's contract and paid him that money up front?
Is this real? :laugh:
His football takes are akin to his political takes.
His football takes are akin to his political takes.
I can't believe people still read his posts.
BroncoStud
10-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Wonder why Elway was so pissed in this interveiw... Call me crazy but I sense a bit of resentment from Elway towards Tebow.
Wonder why Elway was so pissed in this interveiw... Call me crazy but I sense a bit of resentment from Elway towards Tebow.
There have been a number of comments about Elway's mood over the last 24 hours. I guess I don't expect him to be happy (the team is 1-4, afterall), but his reaction has me a little puzzled.
I wonder if Fox was told NOT to play Tebow and he did it anyway?
There have been a number of comments about Elway's mood over the last 24 hours. I guess I don't expect him to be happy (the team is 1-4, afterall), but his reaction has me a little puzzled.
I wonder if Fox was told NOT to play Tebow and he did it anyway?
I listened to the interview and I think he just had a case of the Mondays. We're 1-4, coming off a loss to the hated Chargers, with a media circus set to ensue... I would be more surprised if he was in a good mood.
Slick
10-10-2011, 05:37 PM
he sounded like he just woke up, and had a rough night.
I listened to the interview and I think he just had a case of the Mondays. We're 1-4, coming off a loss to the hated Chargers, with a media circus set to ensue... I would be more surprised if he was in a good mood.
Yeah, you are probably right.
I am pissed at Brandon Lloyd for his failure yesterday. Make that catch and the game ends differently.
Yeah, you are probably right.
I am pissed at Brandon Lloyd for his failure yesterday. Make that catch and the game ends differently.
I'm way more pissed at DJ Williams for taking an unforgivable retaliation penalty with the game on the line. If he weren't owed so much money I'd say we should cut him on principle.
TXBRONC
10-10-2011, 05:41 PM
Here's the recordings of Elway on Vic and Gary this morning. He was a bit 'testy' this morning.
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=96&c=740&f=222311
I got the same impression when I listened to Elway.
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I'm way more pissed at DJ Williams for taking an unforgivable retaliation penalty with the game on the line. If he weren't owed so much money I'd say we should cut him on principle.
I agreee. But, if Andre Goodman didn't suck out loud, that play never happens.
TXBRONC
10-10-2011, 05:46 PM
He's better in the second segment, back to his old self.
Before he came on, Vic mentioned that they reminded him last night that he had the show in the morning and he just gave him a look. Clearly didn't want to do the show.
My take is that Elway isn't used to being a loser, and the Broncos 1-4 start is getting to him, because the Broncos really thought they were going to be sitting in good shape at the bye, rather than one game out of the Luck sweepstakes.
Where I really picked up on Elway's testiness was bit about who the number 2 quarterback was.
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BroncoStud
10-10-2011, 05:48 PM
Yeah, you are probably right.
I am pissed at Brandon Lloyd for his failure yesterday. Make that catch and the game ends differently.
Lloyd made a circus catch to keep hope alive. DJ Williams just sucked all day and then had the game-losing penalty.
Williams needs to be benched for being stupid and for suckage.
Lloyd made a circus catch to keep hope alive. DJ Williams just sucked all day and then had the game-losing penalty.
Williams needs to be benched for being stupid and for suckage.
Maybe that's why John is pissed?
The coaches benched the wrong LB?
atwater27
10-10-2011, 06:05 PM
Like some of the fans on this board, its hard for Elway and company to accept they may have been wrong about Tebow's ability.
Dude. The jury is still out. give a decent defense a week to gameplan for him, and we could have a bonafide national embarassment on our hands. It's not what I'm hoping, but the realist in me can see it happening. That said, we can't suck much more than we do with Orton now.
Canmore
10-10-2011, 06:09 PM
Dude. The jury is still out. give a decent defense a week to gameplan for him, and we could have a bonafide national embarassment on our hands. It's not what I'm hoping, but the realist in me can see it happening. That said, we can't suck much more than we do with Orton now.
How many yards passing did Kyle have versus San Diego? We can't be any worse than that performance. I'm not expecting Tim to be a savior, but he plays with passion. At least I expect to be excited about Sundays again.
elsid13
10-10-2011, 06:12 PM
Dude. The jury is still out. give a decent defense a week to gameplan for him, and we could have a bonafide national embarassment on our hands. It's not what I'm hoping, but the realist in me can see it happening. That said, we can't suck much more than we do with Orton now.
I think some are going to be in rude awaking when defense coordinators start going after Tebow and taking away things he does well.
BTW my opinion is that Broncos don't have starting NFL QB on the roster right now.
atwater27
10-10-2011, 06:19 PM
I think some are going to be in rude awaking when defense coordinators start going after Tebow and taking away things he does well.
BTW my opinion is that Broncos don't have starting NFL QB on the roster right now.
thank you! Now, in his defense, he hasn't taken first team reps this season in practice. So he may improve quite a bit with some familiarization. But as optimistic and 'leader material' that I hear he is, he sure seems like he has been too busy sulking and feeling sorry for himself to be fully prepared for a shot. But we'll see.
TXBRONC
10-10-2011, 06:23 PM
I have been saying for a long time that I don't think the Broncos will be in the Luck sweepstakes. As bad as they are, they are good enough (especially with Tebow in) to win a few games at minimum.
That said, I think it's very unlikely either Miami or Indy goes winless. It's almost as hard to go winless in this league as it is to go undefeated.
Klis has said the same thing. He said it's more likely that Denver will draft Jones or Barkley.
Agent of Orange
10-10-2011, 06:31 PM
I think some are going to be in rude awaking when defense coordinators start going after Tebow and taking away things he does well.
BTW my opinion is that Broncos don't have starting NFL QB on the roster right now.
If they crowd the LOS, they leave openings deep. Tebow's a good deep ball thrower. Not only that, but you can scheme against Tebow but that doesnt mean they're going to make the tackle him.
BroncoWave
10-10-2011, 06:54 PM
thank you! Now, in his defense, he hasn't taken first team reps this season in practice. So he may improve quite a bit with some familiarization. But as optimistic and 'leader material' that I hear he is, he sure seems like he has been too busy sulking and feeling sorry for himself to be fully prepared for a shot. But we'll see.
You care to expand on that? Other than one quote he made in frustration during the preseason, I have seen nothing to suggest he is sulking or feeling sorry for himself. I think you are just reading way to far into a single quote and making things up based on it.
Northman
10-10-2011, 07:00 PM
I think some are going to be in rude awaking when defense coordinators start going after Tebow and taking away things he does well.
BTW my opinion is that Broncos don't have starting NFL QB on the roster right now.
Unfortuantely, this post doesnt make a lot of sense. Teams that play vs Manning, Brady, etc gameplan to take away what they do best. While i understand where your going with the comment in regards to Tebow's passing ability i think you are also trying to hold Tebow at a higher standard for a guy who has only played 3 and 1/2 games.
Denver Native (Carol)
10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
Every Monday at 6:00, on ch9, is the John Elway show, and so far, he has been very complimentary of Tebow, and said he was not surprised that Coach Fox made the change at halftime. John just said that Coach is meeting with his staff right now, and then #7 will talk with him after the show.
HORSEPOWER 56
10-10-2011, 07:16 PM
I think some are going to be in rude awaking when defense coordinators start going after Tebow and taking away things he does well.
BTW my opinion is that Broncos don't have starting NFL QB on the roster right now.
People keep saying that shit. Over and over. Just wait until DCs start game planning for Tebow... Guess what? Teams game plan for Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and even Ryan Fitzpatrick EVERY WEEK! Game planning and stopping is completely different.
The SEC, the conference with arguably the BEST defenses and defensive minded coaches in college football game planned for Tebow EVERY WEEK. Could they stop him? Tell me the Gators don't miss the guy.
Northman
10-10-2011, 07:40 PM
People keep saying that shit. Over and over. Just wait until DCs start game planning for Tebow... Guess what? Teams game plan for Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and even Ryan Fitzpatrick EVERY WEEK! Game planning and stopping is completely different.
The SEC, the conference with arguably the BEST defenses and defensive minded coaches in college football game planned for Tebow EVERY WEEK. Could they stop him? Tell me the Gators don't miss the guy.
Yea, i can accept that some people just dont think the kid will make it but to post nonsense like that is just foolish. Teams gameplan every week to try and take away what a opposing team/QB does best. Its called football gameplanning. Any team that Tebow faced would be a FOOL if they didnt try to take away what he does best. The problem is, you can gameplan but it doesnt mean you can execute it. Great players can still do what they do best if you cant execute the gameplan.
Buffalo yesterday gameplanned against Michael Vick. They intercepted him 4 times but couldnt stop Vick from doing what he does best. Run. The problem for Philly is they couldnt gameplan to stop Fitz or Jackson. We gameplanned to stop Aaron Rodgers, we couldnt do it. Good players just make it happen. While i dont expect to win many games this year i also dont think teams are automatically going to stop Tebow from doing what he does best.
And as someone else eluded too earlier today (I think it was Dread) if they stack the box to stop the run and stop Tebow's scrambles than Tebow will burn them through the air. It wont always be pretty but if teams are going to take the chance they will get burned and it will cost them.
elsid13
10-10-2011, 07:47 PM
Unfortuantely, this post doesnt make a lot of sense. Teams that play vs Manning, Brady, etc gameplan to take away what they do best. While i understand where your going with the comment in regards to Tebow's passing ability i think you are also trying to hold Tebow at a higher standard for a guy who has only played 3 and 1/2 games.
No I am not. I am holding him to the level of all starting NFL QB. Yes DC game plan for Manning, Rodgers and Brady, the difference those guys are able to adjust their game and still make plays. There are plenty of talented young QB that have entered the NFL have never been able to adjust after teams get film on them. It also been a season and 1/4 that he been in the league, so it not like he has no idea how the NFL works.
Northman
10-10-2011, 07:49 PM
No I am not. I am holding him to the level of all starting NFL QB. Yes DC game plan for Manning, Rodgers and Brady, the difference those guys are able to adjust their game and still make plays. There are plenty of talented young QB that have entered the NFL have never been able to adjust after teams get film on them. It also been a season and 1/4 that he been in the league, so it not like he has no idea how the NFL works.
We havent reached that point yet so how do you know? Would you like me to post the stats again of the first 3 games with some of those guys? I would be happy too if it would help. There's no guarantee that any Qb can succeed in the NFL but you make it sound like its a definite. Thats just not the case, as of yet anyway.
elsid13
10-10-2011, 07:57 PM
People keep saying that shit. Over and over. Just wait until DCs start game planning for Tebow... Guess what? Teams game plan for Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and even Ryan Fitzpatrick EVERY WEEK! Game planning and stopping is completely different.
The SEC, the conference with arguably the BEST defenses and defensive minded coaches in college football game planned for Tebow EVERY WEEK. Could they stop him? Tell me the Gators don't miss the guy.
College coaches get to see/train their players 20 hours a week and that why physical talent is more important then techinque. In NFL there is no restriction amount of time spent with the players to prep them for the next game and even the guys on the Practice Squad were stars in their college days.
The spread work in college because you can always find the weak link because of lack of talent or techinque. In the NFL there is neither, it about execution, techinque and game planning.
scott.475
10-10-2011, 08:05 PM
I HAVE to believe the possibility of a mid-game change was discussed and agreed to as a possibility during the week leading up to the game. Changing a QB mid-game is no small thing, so I am sure everyone in the front office was aware of the possibility. As in "We will start Orton, but if he shows no improvement feel free to pull him." I doubt very much there was any surprise when the change was made.
I have a question for the suck for Luck conspiracists: If the front office was afraid to play Tebow because they thought he would be too good, that he would actually win games and make money, why didn't they offer him for trade to somewhere? Are we to believe that Pat and John would be disappointed in winning? If we were winning enough for Tebow to hit his escalators, wouldn't that be pretty good? Then, if we were winning that much, wouldn't we want to keep the QB that got us there? Isn't it better to pay a winning QB $11 million than to pay an unproven one $20 mil? Shouldn't they have just come out and flat said "Tebow and Quinn are NOT getting it done in practice and cannot be trusted to lead this team?" I mean, if they were going to launch this grand conspiracy to get Luck, why not fell it fully?
The conspiracy arguments border on psychosis in some cases. Very strange. Wouldn't we be better off keeping a very good QB (if we find we have one) and using the draft picks on our numerous other areas of need, instead of hoping a high pick QB will bail us out of our many other problems? Remember Ryan Leaf?
broncobryce
10-10-2011, 09:11 PM
People fail to realize that after some games defenses will have film on Tebow, but Tebow will also be gaining experience. People act like Tebow won't be getting better too. He will have good plays and bad plays, like any young player. Quit holding him to a different standard just because you don't like him.
Wasn't it recently reported they restructured Tim's contract and paid him that money up front?
His football takes are akin to his political takes.
Misreported. New CBA doesn't allow rookie contracts to be structured until the third year.
There has been a ton of speculation, with zero basis (most of it message board chatter that than got repeated on the radio, because it was well written).
TXBRONC
10-10-2011, 09:19 PM
How many yards passing did Kyle have versus San Diego? We can't be any worse than that performance. I'm not expecting Tim to be a savior, but he plays with passion. At least I expect to be excited about Sundays again.
34.
Canmore
10-11-2011, 12:30 AM
34.
I knew it was in the thirties. Thanks. I think that illustrates my point.
claymore
10-11-2011, 07:10 AM
Seeing as how you are neither a Broncos fan nor a John Elway fan who obviously feels that the team doesn't have you or Tebow's best interests in mind, feel free to post directly in either the "Black Hole" or in the "Smack" forums. Your incessant need to belligerently attack anyone or anything not Tebow has you branded officially as a Troll. Go troll elsewhere.
As a mod, I take my responsibilities seriously. From now on, I will move any and all of your Tebow troll threads directly to the "Black Hole" so you can have fun belittling the Broncos and everything not Tebow with your only friend, you. Your Tebow troll posts will be deleted as spam.
Tned didn't create this MB to be overrun by a non-Broncos fan troll posting bullshit about one player and insulting others who don't agree. Discuss BRONCOS football or leave. It's that simple.
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horsepig
10-11-2011, 07:42 AM
i'm in the "elway is irritated by losing" camp. i've seen that look people have referenced before. it was after losses while elway was the QB. no surprise.
personally: enough with the tebow conspiracy theories. the fans didn't force fox to play tebow. orton's poor play forced fox to play tebow. simple.
My God, are all you guys so young that you don't remember how absolutely bad, I mean bad, Elway was his first few years? He ran around like a chicken with its head cut off back there. He threw across his body, on the dead run, back across the field to a sometimes open reciever. The MSM played it for all it was worth, and then some. Wow! Boy that guy has a cannon for an arm!
He was awful. Christ, Reeves benched him more than once. My wife and I used to sit in the stands and just go-"Oh, for God's sake, can't he hit Sammy Winder in the flat, about 15 yards away? Hell no. He'd throw the damned ball in the dirt about half way to the safety valve.
Elway would saddle us with this shit for 55 minutes before he would some how create magic out of a turd in a box.
I'm beginning to think Elway hates Tebow because he sees his own tortuous past in this young man.
My God, are all you guys so young that you don't remember how absolutely bad, I mean bad, Elway was his first few years? He ran around like a chicken with its head cut off back there. He threw across his body, on the dead run, back across the field to a sometimes open reciever. The MSM played it for all it was worth, and then some. Wow! Boy that guy has a cannon for an arm!
He was awful. Christ, Reeves benched him more than once. My wife and I used to sit in the stands and just go-"Oh, for God's sake, can't he hit Sammy Winder in the flat, about 15 yards away? Hell no. He'd throw the damned ball in the dirt about half way to the safety valve.
Elway would saddle us with this shit for 55 minutes before he would some how create magic out of a turd in a box.
I'm beginning to think Elway hates Tebow because he sees his own tortuous past in this young man.
It may be why he's said repeatedly that he thinks many times young QBs are thrown into the fire before they're ready.
TXBRONC
10-11-2011, 08:40 AM
It may be why he's said repeatedly that he thinks many times young QBs are thrown into the fire before they're ready.
This is true. But he has also said he learned so much more by actually playing.
Northman
10-11-2011, 08:58 AM
This is true. But he has also said he learned so much more actually playing.
Yea, having looked up the QB's who not only made the HOF and the one's who are constantly playing at a high level (making Super Bowls) they all started within the first 2 years of being in the league. Many started their first year at some point.
TXBRONC
10-11-2011, 09:00 AM
I knew it was in the thirties. Thanks. I think that illustrates my point.
Before the start of the second half of the game Rich Gannon took one pass and illustrated that all of Orton's receivers were covered. It came across to me somehow Orton bore little responsibilty in his poor preformance but it was the awesomeness of the Chargers defense. If he was infering that the Chargers had the receivers blanketed on every pass play that simply would not be true.
We havent reached that point yet so how do you know? Would you like me to post the stats again of the first 3 games with some of those guys? I would be happy too if it would help. There's no guarantee that any Qb can succeed in the NFL but you make it sound like its a definite. Thats just not the case, as of yet anyway.
The talking heads at ESPN have said that Tebow can't play....that is all some people need to know.
This is exactly what I expect from Elway given the fact that the fans have forced his hand to play Tebow. It is as if John is seeing his intent to be in the Luck sweepstakes slip right through his diabolical fingers...
John can't help but reveal his frustrations as a result of his failed endeavor to go after Luck next season, by tieing the hitch of this teams wagon to a loser rather than a winner. Now that the fans have him tieing the wagon hitch to Tebow, Elway is boiling.
Go the **** away.
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