How Teams Will Defend Against Tebow!

[Cugel]

Mike Klis interviewed the Chargers players after the game and they gave a candid assessment of Tebow and how defenses will approach attacking him as the starter:

The Charger players insist that the biggest play in the game wasn't anything Tebow or the Broncos offense did. Without the Robert Ayers strip from Rivers Tebow's comeback is "just your basic late-game stats against a prevent defense — too little, too late."


"We have a lead like we did, we're playing pass first," Chargers safety Eric Weddle explained. "So he can run around all he wants. (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19078892?source=bb)We just don't want to let him score quick. The same thing happened last year. If it was a tighter game, we play it differently. When we've got a lead, if the QB wants to run around, the clock's running, just don't let them score quick. But then you get the turnover."

Turner and the Chargers players pointed out how you defend against Tebow is to stack the box with 8 defenders and force him to prove he can beat you passing downfield. "We know what he's about," Weddle said. "With a guy like that, make him beat us with the pass. If he proves he can do that, then good for him, but until he proves that, you play the run. But when you have a lead, you can't give up big plays. You can't stack the box, no help deep and then you give up an easy touchdown. That's just bad football."

Tebow is the opposite of Orton. With Orton, he's a precision passer, so if you disrupt his timing by getting in his face and blanket his receivers downfield he can't be effective. If you give Orton plenty of protection and give the WRs time to get open he can pick you apart, but when the play breaks down he can't improvise.

Tebow likes to take off and run so teams will stack the box and try and contain him in the pocket, forcing him to make accurate passes downfield and look for the turnover if his throws are inaccurate.

"Believe me, there is a specific game plan you need when you're playing a quarterback like him" said Norv Turner.

That is why Tebow hasn't been starting up till now. He's not a good pocket passer. Rather like Jake Plummer in that regard but more so. So teams are going to run-blitz him until he proves he can burn them.

Hence the ONE really good thing to take away from yesterday's game was the screen pass Tebow threw for big yards. If he can do that effectively he can beat the 8 man box and force them to drop into coverage -- opening up the run.

[Northman]

So an opposing team will gameplan against a QB? Say it aint so Joe!

[LTC Pain]

Orton is not a precision passer.

[The Glue Factory]

So they were playing prevent the entire 2nd half?

[Dzone]

Rich Gannon is coming on 102.3 The ticket in about 5 minutes.
He has always been a big Tebow supporter. Will be interesting to hear what he thinks of yesterdays game

[Npba900]

Orton is not a precision passer.

Neither is T2!:eek:

[Jagsbch]

Tebow is a very good pocket passer. Guy just needs to get into sync and rythm with his starting offense.

[vandammage13]

Their plan nearly backfired...

That being said, it is exactly Tebow's ability to force the opposing D to stack 8 in the box that is going to help him in the passing game.

Because they have to account for Tim as a runner, that is going to create a lot of 1 on 1 matchups for the receivers.

It is up to Tim to prove that he can make the throws, but the threat of his running ability is going to make it easier for him to disect defenses. His skill set will force coverages to be simplified.

I really think that if Tim can just be average as a passer that he's really going to make waves in this league. You really can't defend both.

I mean, the guy runs for a TD every single game he's played, remarkable when you think about it...That is something that D's have to account for and it will only help Tebow in the passing game.

[Npba900]

Mike Klis interviewed the Chargers players after the game and they gave a candid assessment of Tebow and how defenses will approach attacking him as the starter:

The Charger players insist that the biggest play in the game wasn't anything Tebow or the Broncos offense did. Without the Robert Ayers strip from Rivers Tebow's comeback is "just your basic late-game stats against a prevent defense — too little, too late."



Turner and the Chargers players pointed out how you defend against Tebow is to stack the box with 8 defenders and force him to prove he can beat you passing downfield. "We know what he's about," Weddle said. "With a guy like that, make him beat us with the pass. If he proves he can do that, then good for him, but until he proves that, you play the run. But when you have a lead, you can't give up big plays. You can't stack the box, no help deep and then you give up an easy touchdown. That's just bad football."

Tebow is the opposite of Orton. With Orton, he's a precision passer, so if you disrupt his timing by getting in his face and blanket his receivers downfield he can't be effective. If you give Orton plenty of protection and give the WRs time to get open he can pick you apart, but when the play breaks down he can't improvise.

Tebow likes to take off and run so teams will stack the box and try and contain him in the pocket, forcing him to make accurate passes downfield and look for the turnover if his throws are inaccurate.

"Believe me, there is a specific game plan you need when you're playing a quarterback like him" said Norv Turner.

That is why Tebow hasn't been starting up till now. He's not a good pocket passer. Rather like Jake Plummer in that regard but more so. So teams are going to run-blitz him until he proves he can burn them.

Hence the ONE really good thing to take away from yesterday's game was the screen pass Tebow threw for big yards. If he can do that effectively he can beat the 8 man box and force them to drop into coverage -- opening up the run.

Excellent analysis Cugel! Now let's hope the T2 fans realize this as well.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So, the same way everyone beats Orton? Put 8 in the box, pressure Orton and watch him fold? I'd rather have a QB with an ability to extend the play, even when pressured and acutally fire up the troops. There was absolutely no way an Orton led offense was going to score a TD yesterday, NO WAY. Final score would've been 29-10 or worse because the defense would've been on the field for the entire second half, too.

Sorry Weddle, but your talk is weak sauce. You guys are trying to explain away how a QB with three starts under his belt managed to put up 14 points on your defense and be in position to win the game on the last play is ludicrous. He's making it sound as if they just sat back and said, "Sure let Tebow score but right at the end we'll play hard enough to squeak out a win - all part of our brilliant defensive plan".

Whatever, he's just trying to cover his ass for almost losing a 16 point lead in the second half. WEAK. Everyone says the same thing about Tebow, and every game he's started here he's still around at the end making the buttholes of the opposing defense pucker.

[LTC Pain]

Neither is T2!:eek:

Please quote where I said anything reference TT???

[Northman]

I think its funny that a QB comes in and almost leads us to a comeback yet some fans are pissed off because of it. haahahahahahahah, oh shit. These threads are priceless.

[Jagsbch]

Neither is T2!:eek:

Explain then How tebow managed to possess the 4-year NCAA division 1A passer ranking record, if he is not a precision passer? He may be rusty now, given the fact that he is not in sync with his center and starters, but that does not take away from the fact that he is a precision passer. I mean if we judged Tom Brady on hos he looked against the Bills and not his body of work, you could argue that he is not a precision passer with his 4 ints, but that would be ludicrous.

Folks need to get off the small sample portion and step back and take a look at the big picture. Tebows last 5 passes where pretty steller. I mean the guy was well on his way to three consecutive TD's had the officials made the PI call when Tebow's intended target was pushed out of the back of the endzone on the last play. :salute:

[Dzone]

Rich Gannon was mostly negative on Tebow in the interview

[Northman]

Rich Gannon was mostly negative on Tebow in the interview

Not shocking, he was negative last night as well.

[Cugel]

Their plan nearly backfired...

That being said, it is exactly Tebow's ability to force the opposing D to stack 8 in the box that is going to help him in the passing game.

Because they have to account for Tim as a runner, that is going to create a lot of 1 on 1 matchups for the receivers.

It is up to Tim to prove that he can make the throws, but the threat of his running ability is going to make it easier for him to disect defenses. His skill set will force coverages to be simplified.

I really think that if Tim can just be average as a passer that he's really going to make waves in this league. You really can't defend both.

I mean, the guy runs for a TD every single game he's played, remarkable when you think about it...That is something that D's have to account for and it will only help Tebow in the passing game.

No, the way you make waves in this league is being a pocket passing QB like Aaron Rogers or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. :coffee:

Of course you "can't defend both" the pass and put 8 men in the box. The point is that NFL defenses do NOT respect Tebow's arm, so as Eric Weddle said they're going to try and force him to stand back in the pocket and throw downfield. They're going to bring 8 men and dare him to throw deep.

IF he can prove he can do that then they will be forced to play more honest and drop more men into coverage.

So it's a 3 stage process:

Step 1: Stuff the box with 8 men to contain Tebow and prevent him from running. Keep him in the pocket and make him prove he can beat you throwing deep precision passes.

Step 2: Assuming he burns them a few times, they will have to respect his passing more. Then they will try and disguise coverages to fool him and drop defenders into his throwing lanes looking for the interception.

They will bring blitzers from unexpected angles and try and get to Tebow.

Step 3: When Tebow learns to recognize the disguised defenses and blitzes then they will have to play him straight up the way they do Manning or Brady or Rogers. That makes it tough on the defense. The only way to beat a Tom Brady is to get inside pressure in his face all day so he doesn't have a throwing lane. That's how the Giants beat him in the Super-bowl.

As for Rogers -- he's tough to defend because he can run around. So, if Tebow ever reaches stage 3 where teams that blitz him get burned all the time because he's recognizing coverages and making accurate throws downfield, THEN he'll be an elite QB.

At that point to beat him you'll need elite DTs who can generate inside pressure rushing only 4 defenders most of the time. And he can beat that by getting out of the pocket and buying time with the run and by running the ball himself. In short if Tim ever reaches that stage he'd be Steve Young -- who made the Hall of Fame remember and won a SB.

But, Tim is a LOONG way away from that at present. He's still at stage 1 of his career.

[Npba900]

Their plan nearly backfired...

That being said, it is exactly Tebow's ability to force the opposing D to stack 8 in the box that is going to help him in the passing game.

Because they have to account for Tim as a runner, that is going to create a lot of 1 on 1 matchups for the receivers.

It is up to Tim to prove that he can make the throws, but the threat of his running ability is going to make it easier for him to disect defenses. His skill set will force coverages to be simplified.

I really think that if Tim can just be average as a passer that he's really going to make waves in this league. You really can't defend both.

I mean, the guy runs for a TD every single game he's played, remarkable when you think about it...That is something that D's have to account for and it will only help Tebow in the passing game.

Tebow is not going to be able to run in the NFL like he did in the SEC!!! Defenses will be licking their chops to knock the snot out of T2 just to get on ESPN for the nastiest HIT.....and fines be damned!!!!!

Opposing Defenses will not allow Tebow to embarrass them in "Any Given Sunday" and just take it in stride! These defenses have their pride and will take personally when the QB tries to run on them.

No way will T2's body endure the punishment opposing defenses will dish out on him.......hence this is why EFX have been emphasizing to Tim to stay in the dam pocket and learn to play the game from the POCKET!!!!

The scenario you are advocating for open Tim up to Concussion City and a rash of other injuries.....Not a good plan if you ask me.

Another thought if T2 doesn't increase his throwing accuracy, he will open our WR's up to injuries as well when you look at the off target-floating throws he's known to make. T2 will need to make the correct accurate passes that protects the receivers from taking vicious hits as well.

[Jagsbch]

Folks need to wake up, and realize many coaches have tried to prepare for Tebow, but in the end and this is the truth, Tebow not only has every throw in the book, but he can beat you with his feet two.

Biggest mistake fans and opposing coaches can make is write off Tebows sensational throwing ability once he is in Rythm with his starters.

[Nomad]

WOW! What a new revelation on defending a QB!:coffee:

[vandammage13]

Tebow is not going to be able to run in the NFL like he did in the SEC!!! Defenses will be licking their chops to knock the snot out of T2 just to get on ESPN for the nastiest HIT.....and fines be damned!!!!!

Opposing Defenses will not allow Tebow to embarrass them in "Any Given Sunday" and just take it in stride! These defenses have their pride and will take personally when the QB tries to run on them.

No way will T2's body endure the punishment opposing defenses will dish out on him.......hence this is why EFX have been emphasizing to Tim to stay in the dam pocket and learn to play the game from the POCKET!!!!

The scenario you are advocating for open Tim up to Concussion City and a rash of other injuries.....Not a good plan if you ask me.

Another thought if T2 doesn't increase his throwing accuracy, he will open our WR's up to injuries as well when you look at the off target-floating throws he's known to make. T2 will need to make the correct accurate passes that protects the receivers from taking vicious hits as well.

Just because he's running doesn't mean he has to take a tough hit.

Ever since that first preseason game, Tim learned real quick this wasn't college and he shouldn't be taking guys head on.

When Tim runs, he has the option to control how he gets hit. Run out of bounds/slide/dive...I saw him run out of bounds last year and yesterday. That is not something he would have done in college but he's already learned to do it now.

I think the chances of him getting hurt when he's merely running out of bounds or sliding are minimal.

Tim will be fine running the ball 8-10 times a game as long as he's smart about it.
Even Elway this morning on the ticket said he felt safer outside the pocket than in it.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

No, the way you make waves in this league is being a pocket passing QB like Aaron Rogers or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. :coffee:

Of course you "can't defend both" the run and put 8 men in the box. The point is that NFL defenses do NOT respect Tebow's arm, so as Eric Weddle said they're going to try and force him to stand back in the pocket and throw downfield. They're going to bring 8 men and dare him to throw deep.

IF he can prove he can do that then they will be forced to play more honest and drop more men into coverage.

So it's a 3 stage process:

Step 1: Stuff the box with 8 men to contain Tebow and prevent him from running. Keep him in the pocket and make him prove he can beat you throwing deep precision passes.

Step 2: Assuming he burns them a few times, they will have to respect his passing more. Then they will try and disguise coverages to fool him and drop defenders into his throwing lanes looking for the interception.

They will bring blitzers from unexpected angles and try and get to Tebow.

Step 3: When Tebow learns to recognize the disguised defenses and blitzes then they will have to play him straight up the way they do Manning or Brady or Rogers. That makes it tough on the defense. The only way to beat a Tom Brady is to get inside pressure in his face all day so he doesn't have a throwing lane. That's how the Giants beat him in the Super-bowl.

As for Rogers -- he's tough to defend because he can run around. So, if Tebow ever reaches stage 3 where teams that blitz him get burned all the time because he's recognizing coverages and making accurate throws downfield, THEN he'll be an elite QB.

At that point to beat him you'll need elite DTs who can generate inside pressure rushing only 4 defenders most of the time. And he can beat that by getting out of the pocket and buying time with the run.

But, Tim is a LOONG way away from that at present. He's still at stage 1 of his career.

The way you beat that is with the screen. Tebow, unlike Orton, is an excellent screen QB. He WILL take the hit to deliver the ball. Had that Moreno screen for a TD been with Orton, the immediate, unblocked pressure from Weddle would've caused one of three things to happen: 1) A throw away at the receiver's feet, 2) a tipped pass, 3) a sack as Orton assumed the fetal position.

One thing I've noticed about Tebow so far is that early on, just like most young players without a lot of experience, he looks shaky at first. He gets happy feet, holds the ball too long, misses reads, and sometimes has issues with the Center-QB exchange. He thinks too much and doesn't react well. As the game goes on, however, his confidence builds and he just starts playing football. That's when he's the most dangerous. Go ahead and blitz him and he'll kill you with a screen or a scramble, play zone coverage and now he has time to actually read the defense and make a decent throw.

With time, his confidence will grow and he'll come out amped up instead of trying not to make mistakes. Can you imagine if he plays the way he did in the 4th quarter for all 4 quarters? Practice and game experience will boost his confidence and he'll be able to start strong as well as finish strong. Give the dude a chance and we'll see. All the Monday morning QBs and "experts" sure do talk a lot of shit with ZERO substance. If they want a fan favorite, golden boy to rag on, why not go pick on Sam "the chosen one" Bradford for awhile.

Isn't he 0-4? Wasn't he supposed to be the second coming? #1 overall pick? Wasn't Tebow supposed to be a project who would take some time to develop? THIS IS HIS DEVELOPMENT! I'm just glad he's doing it now so we can see if he truly is our future.

Tell me again oh wise ones, who was the last Broncos QB to lead the team back from 17 points down? Tebow. When was the last time that was done? The 80's and it wasn't Elway. Give the kid a break, he's still young and has a lot of learning left to do. Aaron Rodgers and Phyllis Rivers were still sitting on the bench at this point in their careers and when they were called to service off the bench as the backup, both looked like HOT GARBAGE. Rodgers broke his foot and Rivers got smoked by our defense (the game where Lynch destroyed Brees' shoulder).

Must we really try to put more expectations on Tebow than on any QB not named Manning? Must we nitpick everything the guy does wrong in his 4th ever real game? We didn't do it for Elway, or Griese, or Cutler. We pointed out what they did right and hoped they could correct their mistakes. It was Tebow's 4th game and he didn't even start. He was given the ball with a 16 point deficit against a very talented team and told to go win the game - AND HE ALMOST DID!

Stop taking every opportunity to take shots at him and just enjoy the ride. We weren't going to win many games this year, anyway.

[Npba900]

Explain then How tebow managed to possess the 4-year NCAA division 1A passer ranking record, if he is not a precision passer? He may be rusty now, given the fact that he is not in sync with his center and starters, but that does not take away from the fact that he is a precision passer. I mean if we judged Tom Brady on hos he looked against the Bills and not his body of work, you could argue that he is not a precision passer with his 4 ints, but that would be ludicrous.

Folks need to get off the small sample portion and step back and take a look at the big picture. Tebows last 5 passes where pretty steller. I mean the guy was well on his way to three consecutive TD's had the officials made the PI call when Tebow's intended target was pushed out of the back of the endzone on the last play. :salute:

I'm not talking about the SEC! I'm talking about the NFL! Big difference if you ask me.

Tebow was out of sync the moment Training camp started and will need the off season and TC next year to get back in sync with the offense and players. In 2012, T2 will need to ensure he doesn't come into camp displaying all the rawness and fundamental inaccuracies and inconsistencies he displayed from the pocket in 2011 during Training Camp.

Tom Brady isn't being judged what he did at Michigan! He's judged on having won 3 Super Bowls and several division and conference titles as well. There's doubt Brady has set NFL passing records due to his accuracy and consistencies throwing the foot ball. Tebow is not there yet!

You may very well be correct on your assessments and analysis on Tebow. However, T2 is going to have to prove to me that he's all that after he overcomes and performs when teams force him to pass from the Pocket!

I haven't seen that yet!!! Again Tebow can prove me wrong! But right now Tebow's Achilles heel is his inability to throw accurately and consistently from the Pocket!

[Npba900]

Just because he's running doesn't mean he has to take a tough hit.

Ever since that first preseason game, Tim learned real quick this wasn't college and he shouldn't be taking guys head on.

When Tim runs, he has the option to control how he gets hit. Run out of bounds/slide/dive...I saw him run out of bounds last year and yesterday. That is not something he would have done in college but he's already learned to do it now.

I think the chances of him getting hurt when he's merely running out of bounds or sliding are minimal.

Tim will be fine running the ball 8-10 times a game as long as he's smart about it.
Even Elway this morning on the ticket said he felt safer outside the pocket than in it.

Tebow still takes off and run while looking for someone to have a collision with. During Elways career when he ran, Elway was looking to get as much yards possible and getting out of bounds. Besides, Teams feared Elway's arm and passing abilities, Tebow has not reached that status yet.

[Tned]

I think its funny that a QB comes in and almost leads us to a comeback yet some fans are pissed off because of it. haahahahahahahah, oh shit. These threads are priceless.

Fans. Legwold on Vic and Gary this morning was pissed. He was angry. Said he was sick of the organization lying to them (something to that effect). Said that the Broncos had quietly told EVERYONE that Tebow was #3, so basically was saying they had betrayed the media by going to Tebow.

It honest to God was an amazing interview -- the amount of irritation that Legwold was showing about them going to Tebow was beyond belief coming from a reporter.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Fans. Legwold on Vic and Gary this morning was pissed. He was angry. Said he was sick of the organization lying to them (something to that effect). Said that the Broncos had quietly told EVERYONE that Tebow was #3, so basically was saying they had betrayed the media by going to Tebow.

It honest to God was an amazing interview -- the amount of irritation that Legwold was showing about them going to Tebow was beyond belief coming from a reporter.

That makes me LOL! I kinda like it when the media gets their panties in a bunch. Awww, you mean they mislead you? Awww, poor wittle baby!

Wait, wasn't Fox INTENTIONALLY vague on who the #2 guy was? Didn't he say they had "two #2 QBs". Legwold is a douchebag whiny bitch.

[Dzone]

Fans. Legwold on Vic and Gary this morning was pissed. He was angry. Said he was sick of the organization lying to them (something to that effect). Said that the Broncos had quietly told EVERYONE that Tebow was #3, so basically was saying they had betrayed the media by going to Tebow.

It honest to God was an amazing interview -- the amount of irritation that Legwold was showing about them going to Tebow was beyond belief coming from a reporter.

Darn, I had to work for an hour this morning and missed that part of the show

[BroncoWave]

Tebow still takes off and run while looking for someone to have a collision with. During Elways career when he ran, Elway was looking to get as much yards possible and getting out of bounds. Besides, Teams feared Elway's arm and passing abilities, Tebow has not reached that status yet.

This is just so unbelievably false. He has run to the sidelines to avoid contact several times. He doesn't seek out getting hit. He doesn't shy away from contact, but if you actually watch him run he's trying to gain yards and avoid defenders as much as he can.

[Npba900]

Fans. Legwold on Vic and Gary this morning was pissed. He was angry. Said he was sick of the organization lying to them (something to that effect). Said that the Broncos had quietly told EVERYONE that Tebow was #3, so basically was saying they had betrayed the media by going to Tebow.

It honest to God was an amazing interview -- the amount of irritation that Legwold was showing about them going to Tebow was beyond belief coming from a reporter.

Fox can still either start Quinn or allow Quinn to play in the 2nd half or 4th qtr, then what? Neither of the 3 QB's on the Broncos rosters are whom Fox wanted on the roster per say.

Fox simply inherited Orton, Quinn, and Tebow. The QB controversy continues in Denver for the 2011 season. I'd be surprised if EFX allowed the media and the fans to force his hand on a starting QB in 2011.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Tebow still takes off and run while looking for someone to have a collision with. During Elways career when he ran, Elway was looking to get as much yards possible and getting out of bounds. Besides, Teams feared Elway's arm and passing abilities, Tebow has not reached that status yet.

How many plays yesterday did Tebow drop the shoulder and try to run through people (other than the first called draw play where that was his job)? I saw Tebow scramble for a 1st down yesterday and get out of bounds...

Once again, you're just recycling the same old tired shit that guys like Merrill Hodge and others have been spewing without actually WATCHING what's going on. You're so anti-Tebow that no matter what he does, you're going to ping on what he didn't do. Whatever. Take an unbiased look and judge for yourself. STOP LETTING THE MEDIA TELL YOU WHAT YOUR OPINIONS ARE!

[Cugel]

Just because he's running doesn't mean he has to take a tough hit.

Ever since that first preseason game, Tim learned real quick this wasn't college and he shouldn't be taking guys head on.

When Tim runs, he has the option to control how he gets hit. Run out of bounds/slide/dive...I saw him run out of bounds last year and yesterday. That is not something he would have done in college but he's already learned to do it now.

I think the chances of him getting hurt when he's merely running out of bounds or sliding are minimal.

Tim will be fine running the ball 8-10 times a game as long as he's smart about it.
Even Elway this morning on the ticket said he felt safer outside the pocket than in it.

I think this is a perfect example of "fan thinking." :coffee:

Let Tebow be Tebow! Let him run around back there and "make plays."

Remember how Steve Young's career came to an end? Too many concussions! That's what happens to QB who run too much!

Tim (like Young) is big and tough and can take a hit. But, NFL teams do NOT want the guy they are paying $9+ million a year running around in space while Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis or Clay Matthews lines up an KILL shot on their QB.

When he runs with the ball, it's just a matter of time until he gets hurt. As in the military "there are old warriors and bold warriors, but there are no old bold warriors." They get killed off. :coffee:

Right now, the Broncos can only keep their fingers crossed that Tebow learns to throw from the pocket BEFORE he suffers multiple concussions or other serious injury.

As for John Elway he's said recently that to win the SB you have to learn to stand back in the pocket and throw accurate passes and that he only was able to win the SB when he learned that. :coffee:

Do you think it was a good idea for the Eagles to pay Michael Vick all that money? He's getting hit hard every game and injured and has trouble staying on the field. That's why NFL teams don't like to hire running QBs. Tebow is not indestructible and he's going to have to learn to sit back in the pocket and make accurate passes for a living if he wants to last in the NFL. Just like Elway did.

[Dreadnought]

From what I've seen, Tebow actually throws a pretty good deep ball. Therefore I am begging opponents to stack the box. Please do so. Please

That might be fun to watch

[rationalfan]

That makes me LOL! I kinda like it when the media gets their panties in a bunch. Awww, you mean they mislead you? Awww, poor wittle baby!

Wait, wasn't Fox INTENTIONALLY vague on who the #2 guy was? Didn't he say they had "two #2 QBs". Legwold is a douchebag whiny bitch.

funny. legwold reacted exactly as many broncos fans have done when they didn't see things the way they wanted.

it's not a "media" reaction, it's a human reaction from a person with an ego.

[Npba900]

That makes me LOL! I kinda like it when the media gets their panties in a bunch. Awww, you mean they mislead you? Awww, poor wittle baby!

Wait, wasn't Fox INTENTIONALLY vague on who the #2 guy was? Didn't he say they had "two #2 QBs". Legwold is a douchebag whiny bitch.

Legwold is pissed b/c he couldn't announce to the whole world that Tebow would start the game thus giving up the element of surprise of Tebow playing later and well enough to snatch a victory from SD; because the Chargers were ill-prepared for defensively scheming against how Tebow plays!!!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

funny. legwold reacted exactly as many broncos fans have done when they didn't see things the way they wanted.

it's not a "media" reaction, it's a human reaction from a person with an ego.

Possibly, but Legwold, who's nothing but a 2 bit hack local paper reporter better get used to it. He's only pissed because he absolutely hates Tebow and has never been shy about expressing it. Every time Tebow gets headlines for something good, he gets mad. Who cares. **** that clown. You'd think he'd be happy the Broncos actually made a game of it... He's got a lot more to write about now than he would've in another boring, blowout loss...

[Northman]

WOW! What a new revelation on defending a QB!:coffee:

I know right.

Teams dont gameplan against Brady, Rodgers, etc. Only Tebow. :lol:

[Npba900]

How many plays yesterday did Tebow drop the shoulder and try to run through people (other than the first called draw play where that was his job)? I saw Tebow scramble for a 1st down yesterday and get out of bounds...

Once again, you're just recycling the same old tired shit that guys like Merrill Hodge and others have been spewing without actually WATCHING what's going on. You're so anti-Tebow that no matter what he does, you're going to ping on what he didn't do. Whatever. Take an unbiased look and judge for yourself. STOP LETTING THE MEDIA TELL YOU WHAT YOUR OPINIONS ARE!

Oh calm down why don'tcha! Your analysis on Tebow may be right on point. However, I'm going to reserve the right to go with my assumption on Tebow. Our opinions will differ until Tebow's consistent performance or lack thereof proves otherwise.

[Northman]

Fans. Legwold on Vic and Gary this morning was pissed. He was angry. Said he was sick of the organization lying to them (something to that effect). Said that the Broncos had quietly told EVERYONE that Tebow was #3, so basically was saying they had betrayed the media by going to Tebow.

It honest to God was an amazing interview -- the amount of irritation that Legwold was showing about them going to Tebow was beyond belief coming from a reporter.

Yea, ive seen it on this board today too. I really have to wonder if those that are so irritated by Tebow almost pulling that game out are even Bronco fans. I hate to go there but damn, it should be about winning and the kid almost pulled it off.

[vandammage13]

Tebow still takes off and run while looking for someone to have a collision with. During Elways career when he ran, Elway was looking to get as much yards possible and getting out of bounds. Besides, Teams feared Elway's arm and passing abilities, Tebow has not reached that status yet.

Not sure which game you were watching...He ran out of bounds on the first down run, untouched on the TD run, dove on another.

[Northman]

Oh calm down why don'tcha! Your analysis on Tebow may be right on point. However, I'm going to reserve the right to go with my assumption on Tebow. Our opinions will differ until Tebow's consistent performance or lack thereof proves otherwise.

Well, hopefully if Denver decides to draft Luck or whoever next year you give them more than 4 games as a sample size. :lol:

[Tned]

That makes me LOL! I kinda like it when the media gets their panties in a bunch. Awww, you mean they mislead you? Awww, poor wittle baby!

Wait, wasn't Fox INTENTIONALLY vague on who the #2 guy was? Didn't he say they had "two #2 QBs". Legwold is a douchebag whiny bitch.


Darn, I had to work for an hour this morning and missed that part of the show

Hopefully, they put the legwold section up in their archive, but probably not. I might ask Vic if I can put that segment up as I tape their show. It is amazing.

[Tned]

Yea, ive seen it on this board today too. I really have to wonder if those that are so irritated by Tebow almost pulling that game out are even Bronco fans. I hate to go there but damn, it should be about winning and the kid almost pulled it off.

I'm listening to Nate Kreckman on 102.3, and he's just ripping Tebow apart. Basically, nothing he did was good. He ran because SD allowed him to run. All his throws were bad. Then makes cracks about people being so happy after a Broncos loss.

[Npba900]

Well, hopefully if Denver decides to draft Luck or whoever next year you give them more than 4 games as a sample size. :lol:

Yep! Wouldn't that be great if Elway can pull off the QB controversy to where he must choose between a Drew Breze vs Phillip Rivers scenario and both Tebow and the QB drafted by Elway all land on their feet!:beer:

Point is the QB issue in Denver has yet to be resolved as we speak.

[Northman]

Yep! Wouldn't that be great if Elway can pull off the QB controversy to where he must choose between a Drew Breze vs Phillip Rivers scenario and both Tebow and the QB drafted by Elway all land on their feet!:beer:

Point is the QB issue in Denver has yet to be resolved as we speak.

Indeed.

Thats why they need to resolve it and let the kid play. If he isnt the answer than we move on. If he is, we can concentrate on other positions. Pretty logical if you ask me.

[Npba900]

I know right.

Teams dont gameplan against Brady, Rodgers, etc. Only Tebow. :lol:

Actually teams do game plan against Brady and Rodgers:laugh:....the only problem is Brady and Rodgers are fundamentally sound enough to beat those teams.

The jury is still out whether Tebow can have the same success because he doesn't play every Sunday. Teams obviously have game planned against Orton with a lot of success.

[Nomad]

Yea, ive seen it on this board today too. I really have to wonder if those that are so irritated by Tebow almost pulling that game out are even Bronco fans. I hate to go there but damn, it should be about winning and the kid almost pulled it off.

For some it's not about the wins or wishing Tebow to do well as a BRONCO, it's about proving themselves right. There are many here, that each Sunday, they will be hoping that Tebow fails and the BRONCOS lose.

[BroncoJoe]

I'm going to stay firm to what I've said all along. Let him play so everyone can see if he has it or not. Moving into next years draft is vitally important to the future of this team. We (they) simply have to know if Tim can play or not.

[BigDaddyBronco]

It's pretty obvious that if he can't improve his accuracy then he is still developing and will be a back-up QB until he gets there (if ever). I want to see him play the rest of the season to see if he gets better as a passer. If he improves his accuracy and is hitting all the throws (not just screen passes and the deep bombs) then I think it makes sense to continue on with him. If he looks really bad, then draft a QB with your first pick. If they end up with the first overall pick, you have to take Luck and hope that Tebow has some trade value.

I'm still hoping that his accuracy issues are nerves, mechanics issues, and familiarity with the receivers. He can improve these things with playing time and practice time.

[Tned]

From what I've seen, Tebow actually throws a pretty good deep ball. Therefore I am begging opponents to stack the box. Please do so. Please

That might be fun to watch

Sometime in the last week or so, I posted in response to people saying the Broncos simply don't have enough talent on offense to win, that Tebow could elevate the play of the players around him.

The reason I said this is because the defense will have to scheme to contain Tebow. That means their ends playing with some discipline to make sure Tebow doesn't get out of the pocket and around the corner -- think Plummer on the bootlegs.

The teams may have to shadow him with a LB, which takes a defender out of other duties.

With Orton, teams knew the vast majority of his throws are 2-7 yard throws, and they tend to create a lot of congestion from the LOS to ten yards out and then we hear the wide receivers can't get open. Is that McCoy's play calling (or McDaniels before him) or playing to Orton's strengths? Probably a little of both.

With Tebow, if he can pass it reasonably well, the defense will have to respect his ability to get out of the pocket or run up the middle, meaning they will have to defend for both, which will mean less defenders congesting the passing lanes. His mobility will be a major asset, as long as he can pass it as well.

[jlarsiii]

From what I've seen, Tebow actually throws a pretty good deep ball. Therefore I am begging opponents to stack the box. Please do so. Please

That might be fun to watch

Not that first deep throw. He scrambled around and had a WR wide open well behind the safeties (can't recall which WR), and his throw was so far off that even when the WR tried to dive for it he didn't come close.

Hopefully over time he will improve his accuracy on those deep balls.

[Npba900]

Indeed.

Thats why they need to resolve it and let the kid play. If he isnt the answer than we move on. If he is, we can concentrate on other positions. Pretty logical if you ask me.

The QB situation resolves itself at the start of to the 2012 draft when Elway uses Denver's Number 1 pick to draft the best college QB available. Then you have the SD Chargers scenario of having a Drew Breeze and Philip Rivers on your roster battling it out for the starting QB job of the Denver Broncos.

Should this scenario come to fruition the advantage still goes with Tebow in 2012 due to his 3rd year in the league and his 2nd year playing in Fox's system. Tebow should be a run-away choice for starting and playing for 16 games while allowing the number 1 pick to learn the position.

Tebow will get a full 16 game season to prove the naysayers wrong! Meanwhile, Elway has drafted an insurance blanket of drafting a top 3 college Qb who have played in a pro-pocket NFL style system.

The fans will all be happy because finally T2 gets to start for 16 games! Who knows the No. 1 pick QB may not be ready in 2013 and T2 gets another 16 games under his belt as well!

However, should the opposite happen in 2012 and Tebow can't beat out the No. 1 QB drafted by Elway.......then it is what it is. Tebow will have proven he isn't good enough or needs another team to give him a chance. Of course there's always the Canadian Football League for Tebow as well.

[Dreadnought]

Sometime in the last week or so, I posted in response to people saying the Broncos simply don't have enough talent on offense to win, that Tebow could elevate the play of the players around him.

The reason I said this is because the defense will have to scheme to contain Tebow. That means their ends playing with some discipline to make sure Tebow doesn't get out of the pocket and around the corner -- think Plummer on the bootlegs.

The teams may have to shadow him with a LB, which takes a defender out of other duties.

With Orton, teams knew the vast majority of his throws are 2-7 yard throws, and they tend to create a lot of congestion from the LOS to ten yards out and then we hear the wide receivers can't get open. Is that McCoy's play calling (or McDaniels before him) or playing to Orton's strengths? Probably a little of both.

With Tebow, if he can pass it reasonably well, the defense will have to respect his ability to get out of the pocket or run up the middle, meaning they will have to defend for both, which will mean less defenders congesting the passing lanes. His mobility will be a major asset, as long as he can pass it as well.

Agreed. His mobility gives him the ability to create more time, which allows stuff to open up downfield, which in turn opens up screens, short slants, what have you. Orton has no mobility and panics easily, leading to check-downs (and sacks) over and over and over again. When the stars align and the blocking holds up flawlessly and the receivers create seperation Orton throws a very good ball. TT has the potential to thrive in chaos, which is as far from Orton as you can imagine. This is why he generates points.

As for gameplanning? Of course. We gameplanned Peyton Manning every time he ripped us apart, too. It doesn't always work as designed. Tebow potentially allows every weapon in the arsenal to be used to its best advantage. Orton is so limited that he is easy to defense.

[jhildebrand]

Houston had a game plan and a 17 point lead, too.

I would rather ride with T2 the rest of the season. :coffee:

[jhildebrand]

By the way, watch the TD run again.

There were at least 3 charger players who had a good angle/bead on T2. They wanted NO part of tackling the guy.

[Tned]

Hopefully, they put the legwold section up in their archive, but probably not. I might ask Vic if I can put that segment up as I tape their show. It is amazing.

Zack Zheely, the Vic and Gary producer, is going to get me a link to the Legwold segment. I'll post it once I get it.

[Northman]

Not that first deep throw. He scrambled around and had a WR wide open well behind the safeties (can't recall which WR), and his throw was so far off that even when the WR tried to dive for it he didn't come close.

Hopefully over time he will improve his accuracy on those deep balls.

He also threw off his back foot. But, in his 4th game he's going to be rough still. If they allow him to finish the season he will get the necessary reps to see if he can improve in those areas.

[Northman]

The QB situation resolves itself at the start of to the 2012 draft when Elway uses Denver's Number 1 pick to draft the best college QB available. Then you have the SD Chargers scenario of having a Drew Breeze and Philip Rivers on your roster battling it out for the starting QB job of the Denver Broncos.

Should this scenario come to fruition the advantage still goes with Tebow in 2012 due to his 3rd year in the league and his 2nd year playing in Fox's system. Tebow should be a run-away choice for starting and playing for 16 games while allowing the number 1 pick to learn the position.

Tebow will get a full 16 game season to prove the naysayers wrong! Meanwhile, Elway has drafted an insurance blanket of drafting a top 3 college Qb who have played in a pro-pocket NFL style system.

The fans will all be happy because finally T2 gets to start for 16 games! Who knows the No. 1 pick QB may not be ready in 2013 and T2 gets another 16 games under his belt as well!

However, should the opposite happen in 2012 and Tebow can't beat out the No. 1 QB drafted by Elway.......then it is what it is. Tebow will have proven he isn't good enough or needs another team to give him a chance. Of course there's always the Canadian Football League for Tebow as well.

It could play out like that.

[BroncoJoe]

Not that first deep throw. He scrambled around and had a WR wide open well behind the safeties (can't recall which WR), and his throw was so far off that even when the WR tried to dive for it he didn't come close.

Hopefully over time he will improve his accuracy on those deep balls.

Tebow well out of the pocket running on a broken play, receiver running an off route. The ball was very close, considering.

I hate defending Tebow, as it makes me seem like a Tebowner, but let's all try and be objective please.

[vandammage13]

Not that first deep throw. He scrambled around and had a WR wide open well behind the safeties (can't recall which WR), and his throw was so far off that even when the WR tried to dive for it he didn't come close.

Hopefully over time he will improve his accuracy on those deep balls.

Actually, if you watch the play, Decker misread the ball initially and got turned around (Go back and watch the play and you'll see what I'm talking about).

Still, it wasn't that far off, as Decker was still able to get his hands on it. Had he not got turned around it might have hit him in stride.

Leaving the accuracy of the throw aside, I think it was pretty special that Tebow was able to make that throw in the first place. Decker sprung open because of Tebow's improvisation. Couple that with the fact he was throwing off his back foot with a defender in his face and I'm not that upset with the throw at all.

Tebow made that play, and without his scrambling, Decker wouldn't have been open in the first place.

Another impressive deep throw was that one to Lloyd along the sideline (either on the 1st or 2nd drive)...It was ruled incomplete, but I thought Tebow was right on the money with that throw as well, putting it where only Lloyd could get to it. Unfortunately, Lloyd's foot was touching out of bounds by the time he gained posession on his back. It was actually really close and I thought it might have warranted a review.

Tebow's deep ball is actually pretty good IMO. Its the short/intermediate throws he needs work on.

[Tned]

I'm going to stay firm to what I've said all along. Let him play so everyone can see if he has it or not. Moving into next years draft is vitally important to the future of this team. We (they) simply have to know if Tim can play or not.

Ditto. I've never been one of the people that is convinced that Tebow will be a great player. I'm squarely on the fence. I just don't think the Broncos should go into another off-season not knowing what they have in Tebow. This is supposed to be a deep draft class. We probably don't have a shot at Luck, but he's not the only QB that's going to go in the first round.

[Npba900]

Tebow well out of the pocket running on a broken play, receiver running an off route. The ball was very close, considering.

I hate defending Tebow, as it makes me seem like a Tebowner, but let's all try and be objective please.

T2 wears the Bronco uniform and deserves the benefit of the doubt from all fans which is equivalent to judging him objectively and fairly.

Believe me, whatever trials and tribulations T2 has gone through in the 2011 season, will either make him stronger and more determine to succeed or the opposite and he gives up. The only thing holding Tebow back is not his throwing motion nor mechanics......but its his accuracy and inconsistencies. If Tebow can correct these issues he will one day be a Franchise QB....all the other attributes are already there.

However, having said this, Elway would be well served to draft one of the top Collegiate QB's in the 2012 draft who have played their entire college careers in an NFL pro-style pocket passing system for insurance, just in case T2 fails to progress to the next level to be successful in the NFL.

[vandammage13]

T2 wears the Bronco uniform and deserves the benefit of the doubt from all fans which is equivalent to judging him objectively and fairly.

Believe me, whatever trials and tribulations T2 has gone through in the 2011 season, will either make him stronger and more determine to succeed or the opposite and he gives up. The only thing holding Tebow back is not his throwing motion nor mechanics......but its his accuracy and inconsistencies. If Tebow can correct these issues he will one day be a Franchise QB....all the other attributes are already there.

However, having said this, Elway would be well served to draft one of the top Collegiate QB's in the 2012 draft who have played their entire college careers in an NFL pro-style pocket passing system for insurance, just in case T2 fails to progress to the next level to be successful in the NFL.

Ehhh...I don't think Tebow would ever give up. The organization might give up on him but I don't see him ever quitting.

[Npba900]

Ehhh...I don't think Tebow would ever give up. The organization might give up on him but I don't see him ever quitting.

Meh! That's neither here or there. Its up to Tebow to make sure the organization doesn't give up on him! Tebow learns how to perform consistently and accurately from the pocket, the Broncos won't give up on him and 31 other NFL teams will be clamoring for his services.

[vandammage13]

Meh! That's neither here or there. Its up to Tebow to make sure the organization doesn't give up on him! Tebow learns how to perform consistently and accurately from the pocket, the Broncos won't give up on him and 31 other NFL teams will be clamoring for his services.

If it is neither here or there then why did you make the comment?

[arapaho2]

No, the way you make waves in this league is being a pocket passing QB like Aaron Rogers or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. :coffee:

Of course you "can't defend both" the pass and put 8 men in the box. The point is that NFL defenses do NOT respect Tebow's arm, so as Eric Weddle said they're going to try and force him to stand back in the pocket and throw downfield. They're going to bring 8 men and dare him to throw deep.

IF he can prove he can do that then they will be forced to play more honest and drop more men into coverage.

So it's a 3 stage process:

Step 1: Stuff the box with 8 men to contain Tebow and prevent him from running. Keep him in the pocket and make him prove he can beat you throwing deep precision passes.

Step 2: Assuming he burns them a few times, they will have to respect his passing more. Then they will try and disguise coverages to fool him and drop defenders into his throwing lanes looking for the interception.

They will bring blitzers from unexpected angles and try and get to Tebow.

Step 3: When Tebow learns to recognize the disguised defenses and blitzes then they will have to play him straight up the way they do Manning or Brady or Rogers. That makes it tough on the defense. The only way to beat a Tom Brady is to get inside pressure in his face all day so he doesn't have a throwing lane. That's how the Giants beat him in the Super-bowl.

As for Rogers -- he's tough to defend because he can run around. So, if Tebow ever reaches stage 3 where teams that blitz him get burned all the time because he's recognizing coverages and making accurate throws downfield, THEN he'll be an elite QB.

At that point to beat him you'll need elite DTs who can generate inside pressure rushing only 4 defenders most of the time. And he can beat that by getting out of the pocket and buying time with the run and by running the ball himself. In short if Tim ever reaches that stage he'd be Steve Young -- who made the Hall of Fame remember and won a SB.

But, Tim is a LOONG way away from that at present. He's still at stage 1 of his career.


interestingly...it sounds identical to the way defenses have played orton since week 8 of 2009

differance is if containment breaks down...tebow can gash them,

[Npba900]

If it is neither here or there then why did you make the comment?

No one can really predict with 100 percent certainty when a player would give up. We can only speculate whether a player will. But anyway, as I said earlier its up to Tebow to ensure the organization doesn't give up on him and one way to ensure this is for Tebow to show he can play from the pocket consistently and accurately.

[underrated29]

interestingly...it sounds identical to the way defenses have played orton since week 8 of 2009

differance is if containment breaks down...tebow can gash them,




AND he scores tds in the redzone.....19/21 is his stats i believe incld pre season

[jhildebrand]

T2 wears the Bronco uniform and deserves the benefit of the doubt from all fans which is equivalent to judging him objectively and fairly.

I wish more people, especially the T2 critics, would adopt this mentality.

Sadly, some made a bed so deep in their opinions and defending of Orton that may be impossible.

Moses parted the red sea. T2 might be able to bring the orange sea back together.

[Ravage!!!]

I haven't seen many 'defend' Orton so deep...other than topscribe. Everyone knows Orton isn't the guy.

Personally, I wasn't impressed with Tebow yesterday, at all, but I'm glad he's starting over Orton.

[vandammage13]

I think this is a perfect example of "fan thinking." :coffee:

Let Tebow be Tebow! Let him run around back there and "make plays."

Remember how Steve Young's career came to an end? Too many concussions! That's what happens to QB who run too much!

Tim (like Young) is big and tough and can take a hit. But, NFL teams do NOT want the guy they are paying $9+ million a year running around in space while Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis or Clay Matthews lines up an KILL shot on their QB.

When he runs with the ball, it's just a matter of time until he gets hurt. As in the military "there are old warriors and bold warriors, but there are no old bold warriors." They get killed off. :coffee:

Right now, the Broncos can only keep their fingers crossed that Tebow learns to throw from the pocket BEFORE he suffers multiple concussions or other serious injury.

As for John Elway he's said recently that to win the SB you have to learn to stand back in the pocket and throw accurate passes and that he only was able to win the SB when he learned that. :coffee:

Do you think it was a good idea for the Eagles to pay Michael Vick all that money? He's getting hit hard every game and injured and has trouble staying on the field. That's why NFL teams don't like to hire running QBs. Tebow is not indestructible and he's going to have to learn to sit back in the pocket and make accurate passes for a living if he wants to last in the NFL. Just like Elway did.

Nope...You don't let Tebow be Tebow.

By that I mean you don't let him run with reckless abandon like he did in college. He won't last that way. What you do do is let him be smart about when and how to use his ability.

That is done through coaching. Make Tebow understand when it is acceptable to bull for the TD and when it is appropriate to slide or duck out of bounds and just concede what yards he already has.

If you take away Tebow's ability to run then you are taking away what makes him effective. Tebow has the ability to be a playmaker, if you don't allow him that freedom then you have nothing more than another Kyle Orton.

You are the perfect example of someone who lets his mind get swayed by the conventional thinkers. :coffee:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Tebow well out of the pocket running on a broken play, receiver running an off route. The ball was very close, considering.

I hate defending Tebow, as it makes me seem like a Tebowner, but let's all try and be objective please.

And he got hit as he threw... it was a potentially phenomenal play. He kept the play alive instead of throwing it away or worse taking a sack or an INT inside the 10 and got the ball to within catchable distance of a WR, across his body, and nowhere near any Chargers.

I think Decker slipped when he tried to accelerate upfield which forced him to dive for the ball instead of running through it. Coverage was so busted that had the ball been a foot closer to Decker and had he been able to keep his feet, it would've been a TD. He was behind the Safeties.

[Slick]

Do you think teams would have a harder time gameplanning for Orton or Tebow? I'm pretty sure the rest of the teams we play this year would prefer to see Orton.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Npba900]

Nope...You don't let Tebow be Tebow.

By that I mean you don't let him run with reckless abandon like he did in college. He won't last that way. What you do do is let him be smart about when and how to use his ability.

That is done through coaching. Make Tebow understand when it is acceptable to bull for the TD and when it is appropriate to slide or duck out of bounds and just concede what yards he already has.

If you take away Tebow's ability to run then you are taking away what makes him effective. Tebow has the ability to be a playmaker, if you don't allow him that freedom then you have nothing more than another Kyle Orton.

You are the perfect example of someone who lets his mind get swayed by the conventional thinkers. :coffee:

Lets not rush to fast with thinking Tebow's ability to run is a great thing. If Tebow is taking of running because he failed to find and pull the trigger to complete a pass to the open receiver, then we are going to have problems.

If Tebow takes off running because he was thinking run first or has locked on to a receiver vs making the necessary reads and checking down to the 2nd and 3rd receiver.....then we are going to have problems. Then of course the accuracy and consistency issues in 2011 from the pocket remain an issue.

As project QB, it may not be too smart to rush Tebow into the starting lineup to soon.

[horsepig]

Excellent analysis Cugel! Now let's hope the T2 fans realize this as well.

What makes you think "we" don't realize this?

[horsepig]

Legwold is pissed b/c he couldn't announce to the whole world that Tebow would start the game thus giving up the element of surprise of Tebow playing later and well enough to snatch a victory from SD; because the Chargers were ill-prepared for defensively scheming against how Tebow plays!!!

What total bullshit, you mean to tell me that the Sparklers are so poorly coached that they can't change their defensive tactics midgame?

Really, if a runner comes in you can't adjust your defense without going back to SD and sucking on a little mommy tit?

This is NFLeese for "we didn't know what the **** was going on and we almost lost the game because we are ******* stupid!".

Tebow made the Sparklers defense look like they didn't know what was going on. If MaGahee can run like he did Sunday, Tebow will drive defenses crazy.

Oh, we didn't game plan for that :confused: ,we aren't professionals, we don't know what to do :violin: :tsk:

Man up and play football and quit whining! Fox will have so many options with Tebow we should be able to FORCE DCs to adapt to what we're doing.

[sneakers]

This is obvious, but if we run the ball like we did against the Sparklers, Tebow should do better than let's say Orton was all of last year with no running game to speak of.

[Cugel]

Nope...You don't let Tebow be Tebow.

By that I mean you don't let him run with reckless abandon like he did in college. He won't last that way. What you do do is let him be smart about when and how to use his ability.

That is done through coaching. Make Tebow understand when it is acceptable to bull for the TD and when it is appropriate to slide or duck out of bounds and just concede what yards he already has.

If you take away Tebow's ability to run then you are taking away what makes him effective. Tebow has the ability to be a playmaker, if you don't allow him that freedom then you have nothing more than another Kyle Orton.

You are the perfect example of someone who lets his mind get swayed by the conventional thinkers. :coffee:

And you're a perfect example of some fan who doesn't have a clue about how NFL franchises feel about ECONOMICS!

Statistically the more a QB runs, the greater the chance he will get hurt. That's what I mean by the quote: "There are old warriors and bold warriors but there are no old bold warriors." No matter how careful he is to protect his body, the more Tebow runs the more he will get hurt.

And they are paying him WAY too much money to want to see him trying to run around with the ball. The NFL has gone out of it's way to PROTECT QBs who stay in the pocket and pass the ball. You can't hit a guy in the head, can't lead with the helmet, can't take two steps and hit the QB, can't drive him into the ground, etc.

But, what fans fundamentally DON'T get and call "conventional thinking" is that the NFL is NEVER going to want a QB who runs first and throws second. It's just too risky to pay a guy $9-$15 million a year and have him operate like a RB. RBs simply don't last more than about 4 or 5 years in this league. They get beat up, injured, they wear out from all the hits they take. Teams are always looking for their next RB because the guys on their roster just can't be expected to last for long.

EVEN IF Tebow COULD be effective if the team would organize the offense around his running ability they WON'T. And if you can't accept that then you don't know squat about NFL Football. :coffee:

(Defenses can easily adapt to that by putting 8 men in the box but I won't argue that point whether Tebow could be effective long term running a spread offense).

Michael Vick can't stay on the field and is complaining that the refs aren't calling penalties and protecting him the way they do other QBs.

Well, he's right. They are less likely to call a penalty on a hit on Michael Vick because everybody knows he's likely to take off and run on any play. The decision to give Vick a $100 million contract is not looking like it's going to work out for the Eagles because he just keeps getting hurt.

Tebow is going to have to learn to sit back there in the pocket and be a precision passing QB who only runs when the play breaks down and he has no choice, or when they need to pick up a first down and all his WRs are covered and there's a running lane.

In short, he's going to have to learn how to be a NFL style QB or he simply won't last. The league is NOT going to adapt itself to Tim Tebow. HE's going to have to adapt himself to the pro-game. Period.

[Northman]

And they are paying him WAY too much money to want to see him trying to run around with the ball. The NFL has gone out of it's way to PROTECT QBs who stay in the pocket and pass the ball. You can't hit a guy in the head, can't lead with the helmet, can't take two steps and hit the QB, can't drive him into the ground, etc.

But, what fans fundamentally DON'T get and call "conventional thinking" is that the NFL is NEVER going to want a QB who runs first and throws second.


I dont think Philly is really worried about Vick running for 80+ yds on Sunday trying to get back in that game. Carolina doesnt seem depressed that Newton runs in for TD's either.

While i agree from a personal standpoint that having a pass first QB is preferred there have been plenty of exceptions to the rule that your trying to lay out here.

[Cugel]

Nope...You don't let Tebow be Tebow.

By that I mean you don't let him run with reckless abandon like he did in college. He won't last that way. What you do do is let him be smart about when and how to use his ability.

That is done through coaching. Make Tebow understand when it is acceptable to bull for the TD and when it is appropriate to slide or duck out of bounds and just concede what yards he already has.

If you take away Tebow's ability to run then you are taking away what makes him effective. Tebow has the ability to be a playmaker, if you don't allow him that freedom then you have nothing more than another Kyle Orton.

You are the perfect example of someone who lets his mind get swayed by the conventional thinkers. :coffee:

And you're a perfect example of some fan who doesn't have a clue about how NFL franchises feel about ECONOMICS!

Statistically the more a QB runs, the greater the chance he will get hurt. That's what I mean by the quote: "There are old warriors and bold warriors but there are no old bold warriors." No matter how careful he is to protect his body, the more Tebow runs the more he will get hurt.

And they are paying him WAY too much money to want to see him trying to run around with the ball. The NFL has gone out of it's way to PROTECT QBs who stay in the pocket and pass the ball. You can't hit a guy in the head, can't lead with the helmet, can't take two steps and hit the QB, can't drive him into the ground, etc.

As long as the QB stays in the pocket, the refs will try and protect him, but when he takes off and runs, he's just a running back and every defender's day is going to be made if he can line up a perfectly legal kill shot and just hammer the QB.

What fans fundamentally DON'T get and call "conventional thinking" is that the NFL is NEVER going to want a QB who runs first and throws second. It's just too risky to pay a guy $9-$15 million a year and have him operate like a RB. RBs simply don't last more than about 4 or 5 years in this league. They get beat up, injured, they wear out from all the hits they take. Teams are always looking for their next RB because the guys on their roster just can't be expected to last for long.

EVEN IF Tebow COULD be effective if the team would organize the offense around his running ability they WON'T. And if you can't accept that then you don't know squat about NFL Football. :coffee:

(Defenses can easily adapt to that by putting 8 men in the box but I won't argue that point whether Tebow could be effective long term running a spread offense).

Michael Vick can't stay on the field and is complaining that the refs aren't calling penalties and protecting him the way they do other QBs.

Well, he's right. They are less likely to call a penalty on a hit on Michael Vick because everybody knows he's likely to take off and run on any play. The decision to give Vick a $100 million contract is not looking like it's going to work out for the Eagles because he just keeps getting hurt.

Tebow is going to have to learn to sit back there in the pocket and be a precision passing QB who only runs when the play breaks down and he has no choice when a play breaks down, or when they need to pick up a first down and all his WRs are covered and there's a running lane.

In short, he's going to have to learn how to be a NFL style QB or he simply won't last. The league is NOT going to adapt itself to Tim Tebow. HE's going to have to adapt himself to the pro-game. Period.

[Cugel]

I haven't seen many 'defend' Orton so deep...other than topscribe. Everyone knows Orton isn't the guy.

Personally, I wasn't impressed with Tebow yesterday, at all, but I'm glad he's starting over Orton.

That pretty much sums it up. :coffee:

We all knew Orton wasn't the answer and he's a FA next year anyway. If he had had a great year it was likely that Fox would give him a long-term contract. I never liked that because I can't see Kyle Orton EVER leading a SB parade. He'll NEVER win a SB ring unless it's as a backup somewhere else.

But, the one thing that Tebow did that impressed me was hitting the screen pass. That's what he's going to have to be able to do -- throw over the heads of 7 or 8 defenders and beat them for big yards.

I'd like to see him hit one down the field and beat the coverage though. He hasn't done that yet and it's not one of his strengths.

[vandammage13]

And you're a perfect example of some fan who doesn't have a clue about how NFL franchises feel about ECONOMICS!

Statistically the more a QB runs, the greater the chance he will get hurt. That's what I mean by the quote: "There are old warriors and bold warriors but there are no old bold warriors." No matter how careful he is to protect his body, the more Tebow runs the more he will get hurt.

And they are paying him WAY too much money to want to see him trying to run around with the ball. The NFL has gone out of it's way to PROTECT QBs who stay in the pocket and pass the ball. You can't hit a guy in the head, can't lead with the helmet, can't take two steps and hit the QB, can't drive him into the ground, etc.

As long as the QB stays in the pocket, the refs will try and protect him, but when he takes off and runs, he's just a running back and every defender's day is going to be made if he can line up a perfectly legal kill shot and just hammer the QB.

What fans fundamentally DON'T get and call "conventional thinking" is that the NFL is NEVER going to want a QB who runs first and throws second. It's just too risky to pay a guy $9-$15 million a year and have him operate like a RB. RBs simply don't last more than about 4 or 5 years in this league. They get beat up, injured, they wear out from all the hits they take. Teams are always looking for their next RB because the guys on their roster just can't be expected to last for long.

EVEN IF Tebow COULD be effective if the team would organize the offense around his running ability they WON'T. And if you can't accept that then you don't know squat about NFL Football. :coffee:

(Defenses can easily adapt to that by putting 8 men in the box but I won't argue that point whether Tebow could be effective long term running a spread offense).

Michael Vick can't stay on the field and is complaining that the refs aren't calling penalties and protecting him the way they do other QBs.

Well, he's right. They are less likely to call a penalty on a hit on Michael Vick because everybody knows he's likely to take off and run on any play. The decision to give Vick a $100 million contract is not looking like it's going to work out for the Eagles because he just keeps getting hurt.

Tebow is going to have to learn to sit back there in the pocket and be a precision passing QB who only runs when the play breaks down and he has no choice when a play breaks down, or when they need to pick up a first down and all his WRs are covered and there's a running lane.

In short, he's going to have to learn how to be a NFL style QB or he simply won't last. The league is NOT going to adapt itself to Tim Tebow. HE's going to have to adapt himself to the pro-game. Period.


Lets not rush to fast with thinking Tebow's ability to run is a great thing. If Tebow is taking of running because he failed to find and pull the trigger to complete a pass to the open receiver, then we are going to have problems.

If Tebow takes off running because he was thinking run first or has locked on to a receiver vs making the necessary reads and checking down to the 2nd and 3rd receiver.....then we are going to have problems. Then of course the accuracy and consistency issues in 2011 from the pocket remain an issue.

As project QB, it may not be too smart to rush Tebow into the starting lineup to soon.

Let's not make it out to be a bad thing either...You guys still are missing the point about running smart...

Obviously, you want him to make all his reads and use his legs as a last resort.

He's not there yet, but hopefully he can get there.

If he has made all his reads and everything is covered, I really don't see a downside to him having the ability to make a play with his feet (provided he is smart about it.)

As long as running is not the first or second option, it is a great weapon, not a liability as you make it out to be.

Right now he has work to do, but if a year from now he is no longer taking off after his first read as he tends to do sometimes now, then I don't see a problem there.

You guys act as if what Tebow is now is going to be what he is a couple years from now. The kid is still learning and he's only going to get better.

[weazel]

oh no, they put Tebow in, what do we do?

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5759/cimg0200hp7.jpg

[Cugel]

I dont think Philly is really worried about Vick running for 80+ yds on Sunday trying to get back in that game. Carolina doesnt seem depressed that Newton runs in for TD's either.

While i agree from a personal standpoint that having a pass first QB is preferred there have been plenty of exceptions to the rule that your trying to lay out here.

Nobody doubts Michael Vick's talent and running ability. He's the most explosive freak athlete ever to play the QB position in NFL history -- by a wide margin. Tebow is a nice runner and is reasonably fast (for a QB) but Vick has run a 4.25 40 (in college) which was not far short of qualifying him for an Olympic sprint team.

But, he can't stay healthy and has trouble staying on the field. And really, that's been true his entire career. So, even if he does well in a game, the real question is "can he last 10 years in the NFL playing the way he does or will he burn out?" (ten seasons not counting time in prison).

Tebow is a lot slower and more rugged than Vick, but remember how Steve Young's career came to an end -- too many concussions from running too much early in his career just built up. Brain injuries don't really heal you know they accumulate with time.

The more you run, the more you're hit. The more you're hit the more you will be injured. The more you're injured the shorter your career will be. And NFL teams are paying these guys too much money to invest in a player who won't last. Then you have to draft another QB and train him for a few years, etc.

Better to start with an NFL style passing QB who will be more likely to last 10 or 12 years in the NFL.

[Ravage!!!]

Better to start with an NFL style passing QB who will be more likely to last 10 or 12 years in the NFL.

I think its more important to the team to last for the season than 12 years. Vick has already missed 2 games this year..or left because of injury, and they lost both games. The problem with the QB not playing and missing games due to injury is a bigger concern then them not lasting 12 seasons.


But Vick's running isn't winning Phillly games, and he's the best runner from the QB position anyone has ever seen. His throwing isn't great, and doesn't really threaten people. So here is a guy that is similar to Tebow in the sense that he isn't a good passer, but is a better runner than Tim. Teams can defend against Vick's running, so they certainly can defend against Tebow's running.

There is nothing wrong with Tebow using his feet to bye time, make people miss, and occasionally run for the first down (as we saw Cutler have to do all night last nigh)....but he NEEDS to be able to pass the ball, read defenses, and identify what he's seeing.

Lasting 12 years isn't the concern here, imo.

[underrated29]

That pretty much sums it up. :coffee:

We all knew Orton wasn't the answer and he's a FA next year anyway. If he had had a great year it was likely that Fox would give him a long-term contract. I never liked that because I can't see Kyle Orton EVER leading a SB parade. He'll NEVER win a SB ring unless it's as a backup somewhere else.

But, the one thing that Tebow did that impressed me was hitting the screen pass. That's what he's going to have to be able to do -- throw over the heads of 7 or 8 defenders and beat them for big yards.

I'd like to see him hit one down the field and beat the coverage though. He hasn't done that yet and it's not one of his strengths.




You obviously are neglecting or did not see some preseason games of tebow or his plays last year.



matt willis deep down sideline
that #17 guy until he dropped it (not on team anymore)

jabar gaffney deep over the middle
brandon lloyd twice deep, one in endzone.

I thought I remember an Eric Decker deep seam pass, but I cant remember if that was him or orton or quinn.....




Tebow IMO is better at throwing the ball over 15 yards then he is under 15....which is perplexing to say the least, but look at all his throws. They match what im saying.

[T.K.O.]

how do you stop.....the sun from shining?
it can't be done:laugh::salute:

[vandammage13]

Nobody doubts Michael Vick's talent and running ability. He's the most explosive freak athlete ever to play the QB position in NFL history -- by a wide margin. Tebow is a nice runner and is reasonably fast (for a QB) but Vick has run a 4.25 40 (in college) which was not far short of qualifying him for an Olympic sprint team.

But, he can't stay healthy and has trouble staying on the field. And really, that's been true his entire career. So, even if he does well in a game, the real question is "can he last 10 years in the NFL playing the way he does or will he burn out?" (ten seasons not counting time in prison).

Tebow is a lot slower and more rugged than Vick, but remember how Steve Young's career came to an end -- too many concussions from running too much early in his career just built up. Brain injuries don't really heal you know they accumulate with time.

The more you run, the more you're hit. The more you're hit the more you will be injured. The more you're injured the shorter your career will be. And NFL teams are paying these guys too much money to invest in a player who won't last. Then you have to draft another QB and train him for a few years, etc.

Better to start with an NFL style passing QB who will be more likely to last 10 or 12 years in the NFL.

And remember how Kurt Warner or Troy Aikman's careers were cut short?

Concussions sustained in the pocket.

Football is a contact sport...Youre gonna get hit no matter if you are a scrambler or a pocket passer. One thing to keep in mind is that TT has about 40 lbs on Vick, so he does have that going for him as it might help him as far as durability goes.

Also, TT has sustained one concussion in his football career...in the pocket.

[Bullgator]

Tebow will not get hurt anymore than any other player. hes not built like vick. hes built like alstott.

franchises play big bucks to their RBs... maybe they shouldn't run either? or are you saying switching the letters RB to QB automatically turns a player into an injury prone *****? if adrian peterson was put back there as a QB would he automatically get hurt now if he runs?

[Day1BroncoFan]

No, the way you make waves in this league is being a pocket passing QB like Aaron Rogers or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. :coffee:

Of course you "can't defend both" the pass and put 8 men in the box. The point is that NFL defenses do NOT respect Tebow's arm, so as Eric Weddle said they're going to try and force him to stand back in the pocket and throw downfield. They're going to bring 8 men and dare him to throw deep.

IF he can prove he can do that then they will be forced to play more honest and drop more men into coverage.

So it's a 3 stage process:

Step 1: Stuff the box with 8 men to contain Tebow and prevent him from running. Keep him in the pocket and make him prove he can beat you throwing deep precision passes.

Step 2: Assuming he burns them a few times, they will have to respect his passing more. Then they will try and disguise coverages to fool him and drop defenders into his throwing lanes looking for the interception.

They will bring blitzers from unexpected angles and try and get to Tebow.

Step 3: When Tebow learns to recognize the disguised defenses and blitzes then they will have to play him straight up the way they do Manning or Brady or Rogers. That makes it tough on the defense. The only way to beat a Tom Brady is to get inside pressure in his face all day so he doesn't have a throwing lane. That's how the Giants beat him in the Super-bowl.

As for Rogers -- he's tough to defend because he can run around. So, if Tebow ever reaches stage 3 where teams that blitz him get burned all the time because he's recognizing coverages and making accurate throws downfield, THEN he'll be an elite QB.

At that point to beat him you'll need elite DTs who can generate inside pressure rushing only 4 defenders most of the time. And he can beat that by getting out of the pocket and buying time with the run and by running the ball himself. In short if Tim ever reaches that stage he'd be Steve Young -- who made the Hall of Fame remember and won a SB.

But, Tim is a LOONG way away from that at present. He's still at stage 1 of his career.


So in other words they'll be playing football, I get it. :D

[Day1BroncoFan]

Fans. Legwold on Vic and Gary this morning was pissed. He was angry. Said he was sick of the organization lying to them (something to that effect). Said that the Broncos had quietly told EVERYONE that Tebow was #3, so basically was saying they had betrayed the media by going to Tebow.

It honest to God was an amazing interview -- the amount of irritation that Legwold was showing about them going to Tebow was beyond belief coming from a reporter.


Someone misled the press. Oh my GOD. Is the world gonna end? Should we all take shelter?

:lol: :dance:

[Cugel]

Let's not make it out to be a bad thing either...You guys still are missing the point about running smart...

Obviously, you want him to make all his reads and use his legs as a last resort.

He's not there yet, but hopefully he can get there.

If he has made all his reads and everything is covered, I really don't see a downside to him having the ability to make a play with his feet (provided he is smart about it.)

As long as running is not the first or second option, it is a great weapon, not a liability as you make it out to be.

Right now he has work to do, but if a year from now he is no longer taking off after his first read as he tends to do sometimes now, then I don't see a problem there.

You guys act as if what Tebow is now is going to be what he is a couple years from now. The kid is still learning and he's only going to get better.

It's just blind faith that "of course he's going to get better and learn to be an elite passing QB." Why? Because he was good in the spread offense in college?

Very different. He's NEVER proven he can be an accurate pocket passing QB in a league that ONLY wants pocket passing QBs. Period.

Does that mean he CAN'T do it? No.

But it also does not mean that "of course" he can, just because he's been successful before in his career. It's a wholly different set of particular skills.

And being a great athlete doesn't have much to do with it. Either a guy can drop back with proper mechanics and throw the ball on time within about a 1 foot window 20 yards downfield to where the WR WILL BE in a second and a half and not miss very often -- he can't be a successful starter in the NFL.

And the number of men who can do that well is strictly limited.

We just don't know yet that Tebow is among them. And any insistence to the contrary is just blind faith.

Well, that's nice, but all too many of you had faith in Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton not too long ago. And I had to get endless amounts of flack for insisting on reality and not happy talk. :coffee:

[Npba900]

And you're a perfect example of some fan who doesn't have a clue about how NFL franchises feel about ECONOMICS!

Statistically the more a QB runs, the greater the chance he will get hurt. That's what I mean by the quote: "There are old warriors and bold warriors but there are no old bold warriors." No matter how careful he is to protect his body, the more Tebow runs the more he will get hurt.

And they are paying him WAY too much money to want to see him trying to run around with the ball. The NFL has gone out of it's way to PROTECT QBs who stay in the pocket and pass the ball. You can't hit a guy in the head, can't lead with the helmet, can't take two steps and hit the QB, can't drive him into the ground, etc.

But, what fans fundamentally DON'T get and call "conventional thinking" is that the NFL is NEVER going to want a QB who runs first and throws second. It's just too risky to pay a guy $9-$15 million a year and have him operate like a RB. RBs simply don't last more than about 4 or 5 years in this league. They get beat up, injured, they wear out from all the hits they take. Teams are always looking for their next RB because the guys on their roster just can't be expected to last for long.

EVEN IF Tebow COULD be effective if the team would organize the offense around his running ability they WON'T. And if you can't accept that then you don't know squat about NFL Football. :coffee:

(Defenses can easily adapt to that by putting 8 men in the box but I won't argue that point whether Tebow could be effective long term running a spread offense).

Michael Vick can't stay on the field and is complaining that the refs aren't calling penalties and protecting him the way they do other QBs.

Well, he's right. They are less likely to call a penalty on a hit on Michael Vick because everybody knows he's likely to take off and run on any play. The decision to give Vick a $100 million contract is not looking like it's going to work out for the Eagles because he just keeps getting hurt.

Tebow is going to have to learn to sit back there in the pocket and be a precision passing QB who only runs when the play breaks down and he has no choice, or when they need to pick up a first down and all his WRs are covered and there's a running lane.

In short, he's going to have to learn how to be a NFL style QB or he simply won't last. The league is NOT going to adapt itself to Tim Tebow. HE's going to have to adapt himself to the pro-game. Period.

Outstanding well thought out analysis.:beer:

[Npba900]

oh no, they put Tebow in, what do we do?

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5759/cimg0200hp7.jpg

Hope For The Best!!!!!:laugh:

[weazel]

Tebow will not get hurt anymore than any other player. hes not built like vick. hes built like alstott.

franchises play big bucks to their RBs... maybe they shouldn't run either? or are you saying switching the letters RB to QB automatically turns a player into an injury prone *****? if adrian peterson was put back there as a QB would he automatically get hurt now if he runs?

Alstott had a pretty short career

[Ravage!!!]

So we should use our QB like a RB? I'm confused with what -gator is saying. If he's running to buy time, or if we should simply run him like a FB? Curled up RBs are less vulnerable to injury...thats a proven fact. How is it we are now comparing our QB to a FB again?

[Bullgator]

Alstott had a pretty short career

yea and he used as a wrecking ball. No one says TT should be used as a fullback... but he shouldn't be scared to rush 8-10 (including scrambles)times a game... go out of bounds, slide w/e but to say he shouldn't run because he will get hurt is dumb.

[Bullgator]

So we should use our QB like a RB? I'm confused with what -gator is saying. If he's running to buy time, or if we should simply run him like a FB? Curled up RBs are less vulnerable to injury...thats a proven fact. How is it we are now comparing our QB to a FB again?

I expect you to be confused.

we should use our QB as what he is... a QB/HB.