Baseball is dead

[CoachChaz]

Baseball has forever been my favorite sport. it's what I did as a kid and what I always loved most. It's what got me into college and what almost became my profession. When I was married, I would even often joke that I was married to baseball and had a wife on the side.

However...all that has changed. Over the past few weeks, we've seen the New York Yankees prove that they have a complete monopoly on the baseball world. NO ONE...not even the Red Sox can compete with the financial power that the Yankees have.

Today the Yankees signed slugger Mark Teixiera to a contract valued at more than 170 million dollars. That puts their current off-season spending in the range of a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS. There is no team in major league baseball that can come close to matching that kind of money.

The Yankees have made a mockery of this beloved game and the powers of Major League Baseball have done nothing but sit back and allow it to happen. It has become apparent that no one seems to care about the fans of this game, so as of today, they have lost one fan after 30 years

[MOtorboat]

That sucks coach. I feel your pain.

I'll still watch, myself, but the Yankees spending spree this year is a little ridiculous.

[Benetto]

Baseball has forever been my favorite sport. it's what I did as a kid and what I always loved most. It's what got me into college and what almost became my profession. When I was married, I would even often joke that I was married to baseball and had a wife on the side.

However...all that has changed. Over the past few weeks, we've seen the New York Yankees prove that they have a complete monopoly on the baseball world. NO ONE...not even the Red Sox can compete with the financial power that the Yankees have.

Today the Yankees signed slugger Mark Teixiera to a contract valued at more than 170 million dollars. That puts their current off-season spending in the range of a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS. There is no team in major league baseball that can come close to matching that kind of money.

The Yankees have made a mockery of this beloved game and the powers of Major League Baseball have done nothing but sit back and allow it to happen. It has become apparent that no one seems to care about the fans of this game, so as of today, they have lost one fan after 30 years

At least you can still play...No one can buy that away from you...

Baseball has been a COMPLETE joke since the mid 80's...Nothing new to me. Yanks always do this. and have been losing for how many years now?

[Benetto]

I can't wait to see what my dad says...He's a die hard Sox fan....Xmas will not be cool this year when baseball trade conversations come up.

[topscribe]

Baseball has forever been my favorite sport. it's what I did as a kid and what I always loved most. It's what got me into college and what almost became my profession. When I was married, I would even often joke that I was married to baseball and had a wife on the side.

However...all that has changed. Over the past few weeks, we've seen the New York Yankees prove that they have a complete monopoly on the baseball world. NO ONE...not even the Red Sox can compete with the financial power that the Yankees have.

Today the Yankees signed slugger Mark Teixiera to a contract valued at more than 170 million dollars. That puts their current off-season spending in the range of a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS. There is no team in major league baseball that can come close to matching that kind of money.

The Yankees have made a mockery of this beloved game and the powers of Major League Baseball have done nothing but sit back and allow it to happen. It has become apparent that no one seems to care about the fans of this game, so as of today, they have lost one fan after 30 years

My daughter quipped one time, "They ought to have two baseball leagues.
One for the Yankees and Red Sox and the other for the rest of the league."

I was once a big fan, too, mostly of the Cubs. But the Yankees have ruined
it for me, absolutely, on the pro level. I might go back to attending a
college or high school game once in a while. Actually, those are a lot of fun.

-----

[CoachChaz]

I will ALWAYS love the game, but the MLB has lost me. Peter Angelos has destroyed my team, which was once a proud organization and Steinbrenner and Henry have cemented the fact that any other team pretty much has to grow their own talent and hope for the best.

I know all these big players dont automatically mean success for the Yankees, but it's hard to exclude them right now. What it comes down to is hoping that a few players get injured or have a bad year and I hate doing that.

There will always be a surprise like the Rays, but any time that happens, you can count on the Yanks and Sox immediately opening up the checkbook to ensure it doesnt happen again.

It's going to be really hard to beat a lineup and rotation that the Yanks have put together...and the FA period isnt over.

[Rex]

Wait until they sign Manny to make it a clean sweep.

Screw the MLB. My wish is that every single fan walks out on their sham of a professional sport.

[topscribe]

I will ALWAYS love the game, but the MLB has lost me. Peter Angelos has destroyed my team, which was once a proud organization and Steinbrenner and Henry have cemented the fact that any other team pretty much has to grow their own talent and hope for the best.

I know all these big players dont automatically mean success for the Yankees, but it's hard to exclude them right now. What it comes down to is hoping that a few players get injured or have a bad year and I hate doing that.

There will always be a surprise like the Rays, but any time that happens, you can count on the Yanks and Sox immediately opening up the checkbook to ensure it doesnt happen again.

It's going to be really hard to beat a lineup and rotation that the Yanks have put together...and the FA period isnt over.

Do you think people should just boycott the pro game until they come up
with some kind of cap or something? I know, that's not likely, but . . .

-----

[BroncoBJ]

I'm a Yankees fan and even I'm getting tired of everything thier doing this year. :eek:
I like watching our homegrown players a lot more then all the players we sign for millions of dollars.
I enjoy watching players like .. Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Cano, Melky, Gardner, Joba, Hughes, Mo, etc...

And I wouldn't have minded getting either CC, Burnett, or Tex. But Damn.. All 3?
I mean.. I want to make the playoffs and win the world series every year of course but damn.. I hate spending all kinds of money. :lol:
It would be much more fun winning it all with all our homegrown players rather then having an allstar lineup.
I guess we miss the playoffs so we panic and spend money on everyone.
oh well.

And who knows if we Get Manny or not. I actually do want Manny just to see him go against Boston every year.

But damn... It sure is getting crazy.

Thats why football is my favorite sport. :salute:

[Rex]

Of course, when they have the highest payroll in baseball every year and cant win, it is quite enjoyable for everyone watching.

What a complete joke.

[CoachChaz]

No one will eer truly boycott the game of baseball...especially after this. There are more Yankkes fans in the world than there are Cowboys fans. It's obvious why, but because of that, they will always be there.

Just go to a game in your hometown when the Yankees are there and tell me the stadium doesnt have just as many Yanks fans as your team in attendance.

[CoachChaz]

Of course, when they have the highest payroll in baseball every year and cant win, it is quite enjoyable for everyone watching.

What a complete joke.

I agree, but look at my situation as an Orioles fan. We cant even convince a free agent to talk to us or keep our homegrown FA's because we simply cant compete with the Yankees and Red Sox and their spending. Who wants to play for a team that has to compete with them every year? The Rays had a fluke year, but other than that, the O's Jays and Rays should request a move to a different division.

[Rex]

I agree, but look at my situation as an Orioles fan. We cant even convince a free agent to talk to us or keep our homegrown FA's because we simply cant compete with the Yankees and Red Sox and their spending. Who wants to play for a team that has to compete with them every year? The Rays had a fluke year, but other than that, the O's Jays and Rays should request a move to a different division.

Now try being a Royals fan. They cant even compete for Furcal, let alone a top flight FA.

[topscribe]

All I know is that I was through with pro baseball even before reading Coach's
post, and this is the main reason. And, just as he, I was a rabid fan . . .

-----

[CoachChaz]

Now try being a Royals fan. They cant even compete for Furcal, let alone a top flight FA.

Well, the only reason the O's were even mentioned in the Teixiera blitx is because it's his hometown. I'd prefer to sign other guys than to give anyone 20 million a year, but that's the bar the Yanks and Sox have set.

Cesar Izturis is our big signing this year...woohoo

[Benetto]

Cesar tore it up for the Dodgers...Not just his elbow.

[claymore]

Baseball has forever been my favorite sport. it's what I did as a kid and what I always loved most. It's what got me into college and what almost became my profession. When I was married, I would even often joke that I was married to baseball and had a wife on the side.

However...all that has changed. Over the past few weeks, we've seen the New York Yankees prove that they have a complete monopoly on the baseball world. NO ONE...not even the Red Sox can compete with the financial power that the Yankees have.

Today the Yankees signed slugger Mark Teixiera to a contract valued at more than 170 million dollars. That puts their current off-season spending in the range of a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS. There is no team in major league baseball that can come close to matching that kind of money.

The Yankees have made a mockery of this beloved game and the powers of Major League Baseball have done nothing but sit back and allow it to happen. It has become apparent that no one seems to care about the fans of this game, so as of today, they have lost one fan after 30 years

I blame all the peurto ricans. They love the Yankees.

[MOtorboat]

I blame all the peurto ricans. They love the Yankees.

It can't possibly be their fault, they are poor.

I bet its the Jews.

[claymore]

It can't possibly be their fault, they are poor.

I bet its the Jews.

Thats kinda racisist statement isnt it MO?

[MOtorboat]

Thats kinda racisist statement isnt it MO?

Any more than yours?

[claymore]

Any more than yours?

puerto rico is like a state. Its like me saying the yankees exist cause of new yorkers.

You were saying that religion A. supported Team x.

[MOtorboat]

puerto rico is like a state. Its like me saying the yankees exist cause of new yorkers.

You were saying that religion A. supported Team x.

Man, can you hijack a thread, or what.

The Yankees Suck.

Hank Steinbrenner can kiss my ass.

[Rex]

Gaymore, mention your balls if you are going to truly hijack a thread.

[Magnificent Seven]

Mark Teixiera is greedy.

[Bronco9798]

I'm a poor Reds fan that doesn't stand a chance. Baseball has soured me for the last several years.

[sneakers]

We need to combine Tampa Bay, Toronto, and Baltimore into one superteam to beat the Yankees and Red Sox.

We can call them the "Baltimore Devil Jays".

[sneakers]

Gaymore, mention your balls if you are going to truly hijack a thread.

Gaymore :lol:

[sneakers]

I blame all the peurto ricans. They love the Yankees.

Alex Rodriguez makes more money in one year than all the other Rodriguezes in the whole United States.

[studbucket]

I agree with the sentiments. Baseball was what I loved through Middle and High School. I loved pitching, I loved fielding and playing first base. I loved the hit and runs and the sac bunts. If I wouldn't have threw out my arm (and my rotator cuff) I would have played college ball.

Despite all that, I find myself caring less and less for the MLB every year. It was just 7 years ago I would stay up late every night to catch Baseball Tonight, enjoying every minute of it. Now I never update my fantasy baseball teams and finish last every year. I was thrilled that the Brewers even got a playoff spot, but I don't even pretend to think that they will get one this year.

All-in-all, MLB sucks, and I'd almost rather watch the NBA...which is pretty damning.

[Rick]

I have thought for years and continue to think...baseball has to have a cap.

The best players may still go to the teams like the yankees but they won't beable to afford all of them under the cap.

Baseball needs to get more competative. We still have the teams like the Twins, Rockies, Marlins, etc seem to come out of the basment here and there to challange for crowns but it is just not often enough.

I frankly get sick of hearing about the Soz and Yankees all the time and while there is no cap that who you will always be hearing about.

[CoachChaz]

I agree with the sentiments. Baseball was what I loved through Middle and High School. I loved pitching, I loved fielding and playing first base. I loved the hit and runs and the sac bunts. If I wouldn't have threw out my arm (and my rotator cuff) I would have played college ball.

Despite all that, I find myself caring less and less for the MLB every year. It was just 7 years ago I would stay up late every night to catch Baseball Tonight, enjoying every minute of it. Now I never update my fantasy baseball teams and finish last every year. I was thrilled that the Brewers even got a playoff spot, but I don't even pretend to think that they will get one this year.

All-in-all, MLB sucks, and I'd almost rather watch the NBA...which is pretty damning.

I was there with you man. It's been a tradition for me to take the day off on opening day every year to either attend the game or sit at home and watch all the games on tv. The phrase "Pitchers and Catchers report" use to give me chills of anticipation.

I still love baseball and I'll still love my Orioles and my Phillies...but it's just ridiculous anymore. Major League Baseball is to blame as much as anyone. Selig and his henchmen have no balls. There will never be a cap because they have already let it get to far out of hand.

[broncophan]

Baseball has forever been my favorite sport. it's what I did as a kid and what I always loved most. It's what got me into college and what almost became my profession. When I was married, I would even often joke that I was married to baseball and had a wife on the side.

However...all that has changed. Over the past few weeks, we've seen the New York Yankees prove that they have a complete monopoly on the baseball world. NO ONE...not even the Red Sox can compete with the financial power that the Yankees have.

Today the Yankees signed slugger Mark Teixiera to a contract valued at more than 170 million dollars. That puts their current off-season spending in the range of a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS. There is no team in major league baseball that can come close to matching that kind of money.

The Yankees have made a mockery of this beloved game and the powers of Major League Baseball have done nothing but sit back and allow it to happen. It has become apparent that no one seems to care about the fans of this game, so as of today, they have lost one fan after 30 years

Just even more reason.....as if I needed any more..........to root against the yankees.

I'm sticking with my Pirates............go Bucs'.........

[sneakers]

I was thrilled that the Brewers even got a playoff spot, but I don't even pretend to think that they will get one this year.


:pout:

[CoachChaz]

:pout:

I grew up a Phillies and Orioles fan. The 83 World Series was the only time there was a conflict, but I was thrilled to see Philly win it this year. But Baltimore...they've had 11 straight losing seasons. I have no aspirations of seeing them in the playoffs any time soon.

[Northman]

I agree, but look at my situation as an Orioles fan. We cant even convince a free agent to talk to us or keep our homegrown FA's because we simply cant compete with the Yankees and Red Sox and their spending. Who wants to play for a team that has to compete with them every year? The Rays had a fluke year, but other than that, the O's Jays and Rays should request a move to a different division.


My wife and i were talking about this last night. Orioles cant do anything to come close to getting quality players to come here. Angelos is a punk. I dont even like Baseball but its just amazing that the guy wont make an extra effort to get some talent in here unless they are washed up (Sosa, etc). And as you said, anyone that is good takes it elsewhere to teams that can actually compete for a ring.

[Northman]

Alex Rodriguez makes more money in one year than all the other Rodriguezes in the whole United States.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Man, i laughed so hard everybody in the room starting looking at me. That was good. haha

[CoachChaz]

My wife and i were talking about this last night. Orioles cant do anything to come close to getting quality players to come here. Angelos is a punk. I dont even like Baseball but its just amazing that the guy wont make an extra effort to get some talent in here unless they are washed up (Sosa, etc). And as you said, anyone that is good takes it elsewhere to teams that can actually compete for a ring.

Angelos has tarnished the reputation of the Orioles beyond repair. Every year for Christmas I ask Santa Claus for his death.

[Northman]

Angelos has tarnished the reputation of the Orioles beyond repair. Every year for Christmas I ask Santa Claus for his death.

I think Raider fans do the same for Davis. :lol:

[MOtorboat]

We need to combine Tampa Bay, Toronto, and Baltimore into one superteam to beat the Yankees and Red Sox.

We can call them the "Baltimore Devil Jays".

And their payrolls and all-star appearances STILL wouldn't amount to waht the Red Sox and Yankees pay for.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I feel the same way CoachChaz. I grew up loving baseball, like you -- that is what I did. I was good at what I did. I wasn't the best hitter, but I was a defensive gem and could play anywhere and everywhere. I loved the game, but it started to go away (for some personal reasons) and the fact of how ridiculous it was getting.

I had two cousins in the Yankees farm system and they were pitchers. They were awesome, but they decided to go their own separate ways from baseball -- for various reasons. How baseball was getting was one of them. I used to think baseball was the purest sport left. It's not. What a joke.

I hate the Yankees. I'm going to take pleasuring in seeing them fall flat on their faces this year.

I'm a big Mariners fan -- and they had a pretty large payroll -- but what the Yankees have done in the past few weeks is ridiculous.

I can't wait to see the Twins mop ass this year with the payroll they have. They play real baseball.

I can't see how anyone can like the Yankees, honestly. Evil Empire.

Sorry Keith.

[studbucket]

We need to combine Tampa Bay, Toronto, and Baltimore into one superteam to beat the Yankees and Red Sox.

We can call them the "Baltimore Devil Jays".

I've maintained the though for the last few years that I would do 3 things if I was MLB commish:

1) Create a salary cap
2) Abolish the DH rule (or make it league-wide. I want uniformity)
3) Contract 2-4 teams (Florida teams, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Washington, etc)

MoBronc really disagrees with me on the contraction thing, but the league is flooded with no talent pitching and it would definitely be fun to have more talent throughout the league by removing 4 teams and placing all of their talent on the market.

[MOtorboat]

I've maintained the though for the last few years that I would do 3 things if I was MLB commish:

1) Create a salary cap
2) Abolish the DH rule (or make it league-wide. I want uniformity)
3) Contract 2-4 teams (Florida teams, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Washington, etc)

MoBronc really disagrees with me on the contraction thing, but the league is flooded with no talent pitching and it would definitely be fun to have more talent throughout the league by removing 4 teams and placing all of their talent on the market.

Salary cap would redistribute the pitching...

[studbucket]

Salary cap would redistribute the pitching...

Redistribution does not remove the lame #4 and 5 pitchers we have. You still have Kevin Correia, Josh Fogg, and Tom Gorzellany starting a combined 54 games for an average ERA of 6.80.

We don't need to shuffle the cards, we need to remove them.

[CoachChaz]

Yeah, the total teams isnt the issue...as long as no more are added. But if you had a salary cap, then the Mets, Yankees and Sox wouldnt have the rotations/bullpens they have.

[CoachChaz]

Redistribution does not remove the lame #4 and 5 pitchers we have. You still have Kevin Correia, Josh Fogg, and Tom Gorzellany starting a combined 54 games for an average ERA of 6.80.

We don't need to shuffle the cards, we need to remove them.

You'll have that anyway. If you were to set up MLB so that every team had 5 stud pitchers, you'd only have about 12 teams and no need for a farm system.

[MOtorboat]

Redistribution does not remove the lame #4 and 5 pitchers we have. You still have Kevin Correia, Josh Fogg, and Tom Gorzellany starting a combined 54 games for an average ERA of 6.80.

We don't need to shuffle the cards, we need to remove them.

The only reason you think that pitchers now are crap, is because you don't hear about pitchers in the 70s who were crap. They existed, but they aren't remembered. And that's OK.

[studbucket]

You'll have that anyway. If you were to set up MLB so that every team had 5 stud pitchers, you'd only have about 12 teams and no need for a farm system.

No need for 5 studs, but it wouldn't hurt the league to have the Dave Bush's and Jeff Suppan's at the 4 and 5 spots.

If you remove 2 teams from the league, there's a chance that 5-10 of the worst starting pitchers are gone. If you remove 4 teams, that's 10-20. You will still have the occasional hack, but they aren't going to get 15-20 starts and have a 6+ ERA the entire year, because they wouldn't last that long.

[studbucket]

The only reason you think that pitchers now are crap, is because you don't hear about pitchers in the 70s who were crap. They existed, but they aren't remembered. And that's OK.

I didn't hear about them because I wasn't born.

I'm sure the pitchers were crap in the 20s too, and the 90s.

Not sure what your argument here is.

[CoachChaz]

But the 4 and 5 spots are also there for young talent from the minors. The kids wont get a chance if there are 5 spots locked down on their team.

[MOtorboat]

I didn't hear about them because I wasn't born.

I'm sure the pitchers were crap in the 20s too, and the 90s.

Not sure what your argument here is.

That there will always be No. 4 and No. 5 starters on the mediocre to bad teams that just aren't as good, and that eliminating teams doesn't fix that problem.

[studbucket]

But the 4 and 5 spots are also there for young talent from the minors. The kids wont get a chance if there are 5 spots locked down on their team.

You know as well as I do that there will always be open spots for the kids from the minors. Taking away 2-4 teams won't do that, it will just ensure that 31 year-old washed up pitchers (like Josh Fogg) won't be getting 15+ starts.

[MOtorboat]

You know as well as I do that there will always be open spots for the kids from the minors. Taking away 2-4 teams won't do that, it will just ensure that 31 year-old washed up pitchers (like Josh Fogg) won't be getting 15+ starts.

Sure it will. You just eliminated 1/8 of the spots open for players to make teams.

[studbucket]

That there will always be No. 4 and No. 5 starters on the mediocre to bad teams that just aren't as good, and that eliminating teams doesn't fix that problem.

The problem will never be fixed, there will always be busts, but less busts is a good thing.

If there are 300 starting pitchers in the league, and we take away 4 teams, we take away roughly 25 spots for starting pitchers.

That means 25 less guys will have a job. Given the market for arms, we can assume that those 25 guys that don't have jobs are probably each one of the 75 - 100 worst pitchers in the league, leaving the top 200 or so completely safe.

There will still be crap, but it won't be tolerated for nearly as long and hopefully won't be quite so bad.

[studbucket]

Sure it will. You just eliminated 1/8 of the spots open for players to make teams.

Young guys are always given chances. Every year, September rolls around and teams try out new guys. The bad teams are seeing what they can do for next year, and the good teams are seeing if they can get a spark for the playoffs. These young guys will always have the chance to prove themselves September - April. It's worked for years, no matter how many or how few teams were in the league.

[MOtorboat]

The problem will never be fixed, there will always be busts, but less busts is a good thing.

If there are 300 starting pitchers in the league, and we take away 4 teams, we take away roughly 25 spots for starting pitchers.

That means 25 less guys will have a job. Given the market for arms, we can assume that those 25 guys that don't have jobs are probably each one of the 75 - 100 worst pitchers in the league, leaving the top 200 or so completely safe.

There will still be crap, but it won't be tolerated for nearly as long and hopefully won't be quite so bad.

The exact same math applies to younger guys, aging guys, outfielders, infielders.

You eliminate four teams, you eliminate four teams, not just the bad players.

Contraction is only viable for monetary reasons, it won't improve the quality of play.

[MOtorboat]

Young guys are always given chances. Every year, September rolls around and teams try out new guys. The bad teams are seeing what they can do for next year, and the good teams are seeing if they can get a spark for the playoffs. These young guys will always have the chance to prove themselves September - April. It's worked for years, no matter how many or how few teams were in the league.

You just eliminated 1/8 of those spots too.

[MOtorboat]

Not to mention that you just eliminated 20 minor league teams, 4 scouting departments and a plethora of instructional league teams and four baseball academies in the Dominican.

[studbucket]

Fair enough. I see your points, admit you have good ones, but the quality of play is more important to me than the globalization of baseball or ensuring every single aspiring HS or college kid has the chance to go pro.

[MOtorboat]

Fair enough. I see your points, admit you have good ones, but the quality of play is more important to me than the globalization of baseball or ensuring every single aspiring HS or college kid has the chance to go pro.

I just don't think contraction will improve the quality of play. Regardless of how many teams exist, there's always going to be a winner in a game and loser in a game, so you're still going to have teams losing 60-70 games, and teams winning 90-100.

[studbucket]

I just don't think contraction will improve the quality of play. Regardless of how many teams exist, there's always going to be a winner in a game and loser in a game, so you're still going to have teams losing 60-70 games, and teams winning 90-100.

Very true, but in the NFL, where the quality of play is generally regarded as good, we still have our 4-12 teams. There are always going to be winners and losers, but being competitive, or having the chance to do so is something I think contraction helps.

[CoachChaz]

In all seriousness. How many really good stud starting pitchers are there? 10? 15? Only a handful are elite, then you have about 40 at the next level and the rest are "just there". So assuming there are 60 good pitchers out there, we're looking at 12 total teams.

[sneakers]

No need for 5 studs, but it wouldn't hurt the league to have the Dave Bush's and Jeff Suppan's at the 4 and 5 spots.

If you remove 2 teams from the league, there's a chance that 5-10 of the worst starting pitchers are gone. If you remove 4 teams, that's 10-20. You will still have the occasional hack, but they aren't going to get 15-20 starts and have a 6+ ERA the entire year, because they wouldn't last that long.

I like dave bush...he is good for 10-12 wins every year.

[studbucket]

I like dave bush...he is good for 10-12 wins every year.

He's a fine #4 or 5 starter, I agree.

[Devilspawn]

Just even more reason.....as if I needed any more..........to root against the yankees.

I'm sticking with my Pirates............go Bucs'.........
The thing I don't like about baseball, even though I'm a Yankee fan, is what your guys did last year. You had two very capable hitters and shipped them off to the Sox & Yanks. When Bay and Nady were doign their thing, I asked myself what could be done to prevent the Pirates for HAVING to do such a thing, when they could've built a solid lineup around the two.

By the way, this spending the Yankees are doing is not to simply buy everyone. Their hitting last year was up and down, mostly down. As a franchise that expects to win every year, they got Teixeira to improve on a lineup that sucked in the clutch from pillar to post. And their pitching was subpar, again. Our pitching has been weak for a while now but measures were taken to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I'm all for a salary cap, but until it's in place, neener neener. :elefant:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I agree, but look at my situation as an Orioles fan. We cant even convince a free agent to talk to us or keep our homegrown FA's because we simply cant compete with the Yankees and Red Sox and their spending. Who wants to play for a team that has to compete with them every year? The Rays had a fluke year, but other than that, the O's Jays and Rays should request a move to a different division.

Try being a Rockies Fan - ownership keeps trying to sell the idea that we are going to build a "homegrown" team, and then when two or three of them show promise, and want a 50 cent raise, they trade them, or don't resign them :tsk:

[MOtorboat]

BTW...Jeff Suppan would start in this league if there were 20 teams.

[slim]

It is still better than the NBA.

BTW...lets take a look at the last four WS...

TB v. Phil

BOS v. COL

STL v. DET

CHW v. HOU

[studbucket]

BTW...Jeff Suppan would start in this league if there were 20 teams.

Totally, never said he wouldn't. He just wouldn't be a #2 or 3 like he might now.

[studbucket]

It is still better than the NBA.

BTW...lets take a look at the last four WS...

TB v. Phil

BOS v. COL

STL v. DET

CHW v. HOU

You know what's disgusting?

A) I couldn't remember those WS if you asked me to
B) All of those were horrible matchups

[slim]

You know what's disgusting?

A) I couldn't remember those WS if you asked me to
B) All of those were horrible matchups

Yet none of them involved the Yankees. :welcome:

[studbucket]

Yet none of them involved the Yankees. :welcome:

Yeah, that part is fantastic.

I am still happy every time the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, or Cubs don't make the series/playoffs.

[slim]

Yeah, that part is fantastic.

I am still happy every time the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, or Cubs don't make the series/playoffs.

I agree....I don't see any of those team making the WS next year.

Sure, the Yanks spent a ton of money...but I don't think it will pan out. I would bet dollars to donuts that TB wins that division next year.

I hope that is the case...if so, I will be LMFAO.

[sneakers]

The only reason you think that pitchers now are crap, is because you don't hear about pitchers in the 70s who were crap. They existed, but they aren't remembered. And that's OK.

I think pitching now is better than it was in any period of baseball history...players are taking care of their arms, there are more pitches that can be thrown, etc. The problem is, that the pitching talent is diluted when you spread them out over 30 teams, and teams are forced to use a guy who should still be in AAA for their 5th starter.

[sneakers]

You know what's disgusting?

A) I couldn't remember those WS if you asked me to
B) All of those were horrible matchups

It's all about who gets hot in the playoffs....then a 40 day wait between championship serieses and the World series.

[sneakers]

Try being a Rockies Fan - ownership keeps trying to sell the idea that we are going to build a "homegrown" team, and then when two or three of them show promise, and want a 50 cent raise, they trade them, or don't resign them :tsk:

That's an ownership issue....we had the same problem in Milwaukee, until we got a new owner who is actually making a very good attempt to keep our core of talent (like signing Ryan Braun to a 8 year deal (for only 54 million!!) before he gets to be a superstar.)

[sneakers]

Just even more reason.....as if I needed any more..........to root against the yankees.

I'm sticking with my Pirates............go Bucs'.........

Didn't you guys beat the yankees 2 out of 3 games last year?

One of my favorite onion articles involves the Pirates: PNC Park Threatens To Leave Pittsburgh Unless Better Team Is Built (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50814)

[Poet]

Why does this ruin the game?

They are a huge market, they have the most fans, the most money, in one of the most important cities in the world.

Even as a guy who loves the Reds it doesn't bother me. If Cincinnati had that much money (and I know they never will) I would be irked to all hell if they didn'tdo what the Yankees are doing.

[broncophan]

Didn't you guys beat the yankees 2 out of 3 games last year?

One of my favorite onion articles involves the Pirates: PNC Park Threatens To Leave Pittsburgh Unless Better Team Is Built (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50814)

Very funny article....:D
Yes......I think we did beat them 2 out of 3 last year.....or at least split a 4 game series......I know they had to makup a rainout game at the end of the year......that Pittsburgh won.:D

GO BUCS'..........

[lex]

No one will eer truly boycott the game of baseball...especially after this. There are more Yankkes fans in the world than there are Cowboys fans. It's obvious why, but because of that, they will always be there.

Just go to a game in your hometown when the Yankees are there and tell me the stadium doesnt have just as many Yanks fans as your team in attendance.

Havent really seen that, but then again, Im a Cubs fan. But I hear what youre saying. Theyre obnoxious, no doubt about it.

[CrazyHorse]

Baseball is pretty much a sham nowadays. With the steriods and no spending limit I don't care to watch it.
It's no longer America's(United States) Pasttime, the NFL and football in general are.
Sure, a lot of people still like it.
Which is more popular? The Superbowl or the World Series?
Does college baseball get any attention like college football or basketball?
In my opinion:Football>Basketball>Hockey>Baseball

[NameUsedBefore]

The lack of a cap is why I can't watch baseball.

That and it's only fun to watch at the actual games. But really, how is it cool to have one team spend on one player what some organizations will spend on their whole team?

Blah. Whatever. Go Rockies.

[keithbishop]

I feel the same way CoachChaz. I grew up loving baseball, like you -- that is what I did. I was good at what I did. I wasn't the best hitter, but I was a defensive gem and could play anywhere and everywhere. I loved the game, but it started to go away (for some personal reasons) and the fact of how ridiculous it was getting.

I had two cousins in the Yankees farm system and they were pitchers. They were awesome, but they decided to go their own separate ways from baseball -- for various reasons. How baseball was getting was one of them. I used to think baseball was the purest sport left. It's not. What a joke.

I hate the Yankees. I'm going to take pleasuring in seeing them fall flat on their faces this year.

I'm a big Mariners fan -- and they had a pretty large payroll -- but what the Yankees have done in the past few weeks is ridiculous.

I can't wait to see the Twins mop ass this year with the payroll they have. They play real baseball.

I can't see how anyone can like the Yankees, honestly. Evil Empire.

Sorry Keith.

Nothing to be sorry for. I love the "Us against the world" mentality -- and embraced it over 30 years ago. Nothing new for me.

As far as understanding how I can be a Yankees fan, it's simple. I grew up wanting to be Graig Nettles (avatar pic). Back in those days, if the programming gods smiled on me, I got to watch 3 or so Yankees games a month in the regular season. My lifeline was bi-weekly trips to the library to read the NY Times and The Sporting News. That was long ago, but I still have the same love for the game and my team. I'm a full blown junkie -- I watched/listened to over 200 Yankees games (major and minor league) last season. Win, lose, or draw, I'm incapable of turning my back on my team or THE game itself. I didn't turn away in the 80's or early 90's and it isn't going to happen now. Plain and simple: "Dedication" = Keith Bishop's affair with the Yankees.

Like it? I don't care. Approve of it? Doesn't bother me either way. I never have been the type to answer to anyone. Salary cap: bring it on. I am a Yankees minor league devotee and would rather see Brett Gardners and Austin Jacksons than free agents. Perhaps it's time that Blameless Bud Selig started doing his job.

Trivia question: Who lifted George Steinbrenner's "lifetime" ban from MLB? Bud Selig.

Until the rules are changed, I'm not sure what I can do about the Yankees operating within them. I've been volunteering to be the Yankees GM for a long, long time, but I don't see it happening.

If I'm to be judged, so be it. Being judgmental isn't in my arsenal. It's best left in the hands of others. I'll be a bigger fan in 2009 than I was last season.... and a bigger fan in 2010 than in 2009. My first "The Yankees have ruined the game" lecture took place when Reggie signed a deal for $600,000 per season. I've heard many more since then.

I'm going through a rough stretch on the personal front (laid off of work..... and passed 2 kidney stones in the past week: one last Tuesday and another today). I don't believe in divorce, yet I have 3 under my belt. I battle depression a lot more than I'd like to -- not always successfully. It's not that I'm complaining, my blessings vastly outweigh anything else... always have and always will.... but "fair" isn't something I can control, nor is it anything I've ever witnessed in life, for that matter.

A die hard Yankees fan I remain. End of story.

[horsesense]

Some of the blame can be passed on to the greedy SOB agents like Scott Boras as well.

[Poet]

Some of the blame can be passed on to the greedy SOB agents like Scott Boras as well.

I don't really buy that. I think if you are a grown man, and you take steriods, all the blame goes on you.

As far as how the Evil Empire plays baseball, they recently resurfaced in the late 90's and early 2000's with monster pitching staffs. They used to have a very well rounded lineup with versatile players and they used to play great defense.

As of late, they just kept signing overpriced power hitters. They ignored the pitching staff and kept wondering how they got bounced around in the playoffs.

I don't begrudge them or hate them. People had such a fascination with the Red Sox and I never understand that. They have pretty much become the Yankees.

If my Reds could go out and pick up great impact players I would want them to. Don't blame the Yankees for acting the way they do, blame the stupid system that enables them.

[Dreadnought]

Baseball has forever been my favorite sport. it's what I did as a kid and what I always loved most. It's what got me into college and what almost became my profession. When I was married, I would even often joke that I was married to baseball and had a wife on the side.

However...all that has changed. Over the past few weeks, we've seen the New York Yankees prove that they have a complete monopoly on the baseball world. NO ONE...not even the Red Sox can compete with the financial power that the Yankees have.

Today the Yankees signed slugger Mark Teixiera to a contract valued at more than 170 million dollars. That puts their current off-season spending in the range of a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS. There is no team in major league baseball that can come close to matching that kind of money.

The Yankees have made a mockery of this beloved game and the powers of Major League Baseball have done nothing but sit back and allow it to happen. It has become apparent that no one seems to care about the fans of this game, so as of today, they have lost one fan after 30 years

I was lost to them in 94. I was as big a Tigers fan as I am a Bronco fan, but the Strike and lack of a salary cap has killed America's pastime.

[horsesense]

steroids are a whole other issue. The agents are driving up the salaries/contracts of todays players. When you see players turning down a 1yr. 25 million dollar offer its time to say w t f. :confused:

[MOtorboat]

Meh on the steroids...sure, baseball is culpable, because they didn't make the rule, but the rule didn't exist, so I'm just not that worried about it.

Salary cap, now that's another issue.

Baseball certainly isn't dead to me, though.

[sneakers]

Meh on the steroids...sure, baseball is culpable, because they didn't make the rule, but the rule didn't exist, so I'm just not that worried about it.

Salary cap, now that's another issue.

Baseball certainly isn't dead to me, though.

Wasn't an all time attendence record set last year?

(I think like 6 or 7 teams (including the Brewers) set season attendence records last year).

[MOtorboat]

Wasn't an all time attendence record set last year?

(I think like 6 or 7 teams (including the Brewers) set season attendence records last year).

Yes. Those figures will probably go down this year, though, but not because of baseball.

[Southstander RSM]

Baseball has forever been my favorite sport. it's what I did as a kid and what I always loved most. It's what got me into college and what almost became my profession. When I was married, I would even often joke that I was married to baseball and had a wife on the side.

However...all that has changed. Over the past few weeks, we've seen the New York Yankees prove that they have a complete monopoly on the baseball world. NO ONE...not even the Red Sox can compete with the financial power that the Yankees have.

Today the Yankees signed slugger Mark Teixiera to a contract valued at more than 170 million dollars. That puts their current off-season spending in the range of a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS. There is no team in major league baseball that can come close to matching that kind of money.

The Yankees have made a mockery of this beloved game and the powers of Major League Baseball have done nothing but sit back and allow it to happen. It has become apparent that no one seems to care about the fans of this game, so as of today, they have lost one fan after 30 years

The Yankees have been spending money like a sailor on leave since 2000 and it has gottent them no where. It has not netted them a Championship.


As far as my Sox go, they don't try to out bid other teams, they are not even 2 on the spending list. The Sox motto is "Find your own, develop your own, keep your own", and it has worked. Look at Pedroia.

[Hobe]

My interest in baseball faded away some time ago. The basic causes were...

Wishy-washy league management
Adversarial player's association
General over spending on prima-dona players

I've made several attempts to get interested again, to no avail. Every time there is another bomb dropping. The Yankee and Red Sox spending sprees aren't even the biggest turn-off for me now, it the drug use. It seems that every baseball "Hero" of the passed twenty or twenty five years should have an asterisk (*) by their records. It is hard to love a sport where the only players you can look up to played thirty years or more ago. :tsk:


http://assets.comics.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/200000/70000/4000/900/274942/274942.full.gif

[Buff]

Bump...

I'm so ******* sick of hearing about how many top-tier free agents the Yankees and BoSox sign every off season.

Meanwhile, the Blue Jays gave up their greatest player in franchise history because they readily admit that he's not going to win a World Series there. Teams like the Pirates aren't even pretending to try and be competitive. It's a joke. A ******* joke.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

It makes me sad and infuriated to see the yankees buy championships, and I don't even like baseball.

[Rick]

salary cap...

[CoachChaz]

I will agree that baseball needs a salary cap, but I think it's too late to do it. Assuming they set the cap at the current luxury tax point of $170 million, the only team really affected by it would be the Yankees. That's fine by me, but what does baseball do at that point? Force them to cut players currently under contract? It's a sticky scenario that I think is too far gone.

The flip side is finding a minimum. A good example is a team like Pittsburgh. This year, the Pirates will receive $75 million dollars from MLB from profit sharing and luxry tax fees. Yet the Pirates will only spend $45 million on salary. Is that fair? The team immediately profits 30 million and the fans get the shaft with a bad team, so they dont go to the games and the team doesnt generate revenue and the owners cry for help they are already getting. In that scenario, it seems there needs to be a minimum salary. However...look at a team like Florida or Tampa Bay. Both are very well run organizations capable of competing with minimal salaries. So let's say they have a team that could go to the World Series and they are paying that team 60 million. But MLB says there is a 75 million dollar minimum salary. Do they then have to sign some big FA to a ridiculous contract just to fall in the MLB guideline?

No matter how you try to fix it, some team will get screwed and it's on because Selig and MLB let this all get too far out of hand. Eventually, they are going to have a scenario like the NHL did and they'll have no choice but to fix things. The bad part is the fans will probably treat them the same way the NHL fans did.

[studbucket]

IMO, there's also no reason for the season to stretch on as long as it does now. It starts before April and ends in November. There's several reasons I stopped caring at all about the MLB (although I still like baseball) and the 162-game season is one of them.

The league is too full of tradition and stat-snobs to change anything (like 140 games, contract some teams), but it's what I would do.

[CoachChaz]

IMO, there's also no reason for the season to stretch on as long as it does now. It starts before April and ends in November. There's several reasons I stopped caring at all about the MLB (although I still like baseball) and the 162-game season is one of them.

The league is too full of tradition and stat-snobs to change anything (like 140 games, contract some teams), but it's what I would do.

Baseball is the one sport where ONE game can mean a huge difference. A team that misses the playoffs by one game can look back at any loss and see where an opportunity was missed. Baseball needs to be a long season. You could make an argument for 162, but cutting out any more than 2 weeks would be a detriment.

Contraction is only an option because of salaries. Owners would like to have 2 less teams around to share the annual revenue pool with. But the problem is...the owners are to blame for the higher salaries. Mainly 2 or 3 in particular, but nonetheless...it's on the owners. But let's say MLB decided to go this route. Which 2 teams get contracted now? A successful Twins team? Cant do the Expos anymore, so who?

Then once you decide, the owners wil draw a slew of legislators, judges, lawyers, stadium owners, members of Congress and angry fans into the mix.


Niether of these two solutions is good for baseball and niether will happen.


When you want to fix problems created by salaries, you dont eliminate the organizations...you eliminate the free salaries

[studbucket]

Baseball is the one sport where ONE game can mean a huge difference. A team that misses the playoffs by one game can look back at any loss and see where an opportunity was missed. Baseball needs to be a long season. You could make an argument for 162, but cutting out any more than 2 weeks would be a detriment.

Contraction is only an option because of salaries. Owners would like to have 2 less teams around to share the annual revenue pool with. But the problem is...the owners are to blame for the higher salaries. Mainly 2 or 3 in particular, but nonetheless...it's on the owners. But let's say MLB decided to go this route. Which 2 teams get contracted now? A successful Twins team? Cant do the Expos anymore, so who?

Then once you decide, the owners wil draw a slew of legislators, judges, lawyers, stadium owners, members of Congress and angry fans into the mix.


Niether of these two solutions is good for baseball and niether will happen.


When you want to fix problems created by salaries, you dont eliminate the organizations...you eliminate the free salaries

Perhaps I'm a broken record (Mo would say so), but I've felt for 3-4 years now that if the MLB:

1) Shortens the season
2) Adds a salary cap
3) Contracts some teams

It would improve the league by spreading the talent across fewer teams, limit the number of pitchers needed, and ensuring a somewhat more equal distribution of talent. Right now 400 people go to Washington Nationals games. There's no reason to attend a Marlins game in August, nor a reason to attend a Brewers game in September. By shortening the season and giving each team more talent, there would be less crappy pitching, better baseball, and more meaning to each game, giving fans a better reason to watch.

One game makes a difference in every sport. How is 1 game more or less important by shortening the season, I don't really sorry your point there. Strictly from a mathematical standpoint, making the season shorter would increase the importance of the games. Perhaps you can clarify?

Right now, the MLB season just drones on forever, people stop caring by late July (trade deadline is most exciting part of season), and not many teams are making money.

The only thing that's good for baseball is baseball making more money. I don't care if HR records don't matter or if you have to calculate VORP differently, if the league isn't making money, then it's not doing well.

It's really quite similar to some of the problems the NBA has. Many franchises are completely uncompetitive and making no money, and shortening the season would really help things (at least Bill Simmons thinks so, and I tend to agree, since he's an NBA genius).

[CoachChaz]

I've already agreed that I would be okay with shortening the season to 150 games. That would also allow the Divisional Series to be a best of 7 series like it needs to be and would help get the season over in October. Anything less than 150 is no good. Baseball isnt the same as the other sports. You can play this game every day and not need the rest the other sports need.

Contraction will never happen. If only 400 people go to a Nationals game, then move the team somewhere that people will actually come to a game. I thought they were silly for moving the Expos there to begin with, but that's poor management and has nothing to do with the game.

As far as attendance goes, I actually read a report in September that showed that while only 9 teams reported an increase in attendance this year (economy played more of an issue with that), they also noted that their average attendances maintained throughout the season as expected. What this means is the teams with a chance at the playoffs kept attendance and the teams without a chance fell off. That happens all the time in every sport

[Poet]

The problem that baseball has is that people are realizing that it isn't really that good of a sport. The athleticism that is required in Football, basketball and hockey trumps it.


/troll. :D



I don't think the sport is dead, nor do I think it's boring, but basically every argument I made in this thread with Coach was me being a contrarian.

[CoachChaz]

The problem that baseball has is that people are realizing that it isn't really that good of a sport. The athleticism that is required in Football, basketball and hockey trumps it.


/troll. :D



I don't think the sport is dead, nor do I think it's boring, but basically every argument I made in this thread with Coach was me being a contrarian.

I will always defend baseball and many of the reasons I do are reasons that most people cant comprehend. There's no doubt that the other major sports are more physically demanding. I'll never argue that...but from a skill standpoint...baseball is WAY up there. I'll resort to the old adage of hitting a round ball with a round bat. Is that easier than catching a football? No chance. Now as you get further into the depths of the sports professionally, things get more detailed...to an extent.

If Payton Manning threw a football at a high scool WR, what are the odds that kid would catch the ball? Probably really high. But if Tim Lincecum threw a fastball to a high school hitter...what would his success rate be? Hell...even great professional hitters are only successful 30% of the time.

So, while baseball is less physically demanding, it does require more skill, muscle memory and reflex than any other sport.



Anyway...that's not the argument here.

[Northman]

Whats baseball?

[studbucket]

I will always defend baseball and many of the reasons I do are reasons that most people cant comprehend. There's no doubt that the other major sports are more physically demanding. I'll never argue that...but from a skill standpoint...baseball is WAY up there. I'll resort to the old adage of hitting a round ball with a round bat. Is that easier than catching a football? No chance. Now as you get further into the depths of the sports professionally, things get more detailed...to an extent.

If Payton Manning threw a football at a high scool WR, what are the odds that kid would catch the ball? Probably really high. But if Tim Lincecum threw a fastball to a high school hitter...what would his success rate be? Hell...even great professional hitters are only successful 30% of the time.

So, while baseball is less physically demanding, it does require more skill, muscle memory and reflex than any other sport.

Anyway...that's not the argument here.

And that's what makes baseball so great and makes me so irritated that MLB has basically ruined (for me) my favorite sport from HS.

I don't give a crap about the Brewers anymore or anything that happens. Hot Stove in the offseason, fantasy baseball, watching pitchers, and staying up late to watch baseball tonight were great memories I had of the summer. Now I'm jaded and don't even care.

[Poet]

I will always defend baseball and many of the reasons I do are reasons that most people cant comprehend. There's no doubt that the other major sports are more physically demanding. I'll never argue that...but from a skill standpoint...baseball is WAY up there. I'll resort to the old adage of hitting a round ball with a round bat. Is that easier than catching a football? No chance. Now as you get further into the depths of the sports professionally, things get more detailed...to an extent.

If Payton Manning threw a football at a high scool WR, what are the odds that kid would catch the ball? Probably really high. But if Tim Lincecum threw a fastball to a high school hitter...what would his success rate be? Hell...even great professional hitters are only successful 30% of the time.

So, while baseball is less physically demanding, it does require more skill, muscle memory and reflex than any other sport.



Anyway...that's not the argument here.

Fair, but let's see an outfielder make a running catch on a deep fly ball. Then let's see him run a long route and catch a ball while there's a corner dogging him.

We can go back and forth on this for days. Being a catcher is incredibly physically demanding and it's right up there with most positions in sports.

Etc etc etc.

Give baseball a salary cap, level the playing field, and force teams to actually function as a top-level organization.

[CoachChaz]

Fair, but let's see an outfielder make a running catch on a deep fly ball. Then let's see him run a long route and catch a ball while there's a corner dogging him.

We can go back and forth on this for days. Being a catcher is incredibly physically demanding and it's right up there with most positions in sports.

Etc etc etc.

Give baseball a salary cap, level the playing field, and force teams to actually function as a top-level organization.

These are the two key factors. Unfortunately, I dont think either one will happen. It may be too late to install a cap...and if they do, they would probably have to install a minimum salary as well. That would be a bigger problem because some teams just cant manage an organization. Like I said, the Pirates got $75 million from profit sharing, luxury tax fees, etc. from MLB and they still only have a $45 million dollar payroll. Where's the other 30 going?

For every sob story from Pittsburgh and KC, there is a success story in Tampa and Miami. The difference is management

[claymore]

These are the two key factors. Unfortunately, I dont think either one will happen. It may be too late to install a cap...and if they do, they would probably have to install a minimum salary as well. That would be a bigger problem because some teams just cant manage an organization. Like I said, the Pirates got $75 million from profit sharing, luxury tax fees, etc. from MLB and they still only have a $45 million dollar payroll. Where's the other 30 going?

For every sob story from Pittsburgh and KC, there is a success story in Tampa and Miami. The difference is management

And Tampa cant fill the seats. I really support a new stadium in Tampa, Where they have it is 45minutes west of Tampa in St Pete. with traffic it would take me 2.5 hours to drive the 20 something miles straight line distance.

Not worth it......

[CoachChaz]

And Tampa cant fill the seats. I really support a new stadium in Tampa, Where they have it is 45minutes west of Tampa in St Pete. with traffic it would take me 2.5 hours to drive the 20 something miles straight line distance.

Not worth it......

This is my point. Owners and MLB approve a team in a location that just doesnt have much baseball interest. but despite that, the team...through excellent internal management...remains competetive. Same scenario with the Marlins.

So the question is...if these small market teams can do it, why not Pitt and KC? The answer is internal management. So, I dont feel sorry for the Royals and Pirates. Especially when they have opportunities to improve, but choose to ignore them

[Overtime]

and baseball still sux!!!

[Nomad]

I enjoyed playing baseball throughout my youth until the end of my high school days (played left and center field in HS). I've never really been a fan of MLB though I somewhat follow the Mariners because we lived there for so long and that's where my wife is from (Washington State). It was fun going to the old Kingdome (glad the piece of crap was torn down) and especially at Safeco Field. I wouldn't blink twice if MLB would disappear, same could be said for the NBA (though John stockton was my favorite player). The only baseball I watch is the CWS!!!