shanny laying down the foundation for new defense

[broken12]

After game shannahan on 850 said anytime you give up that many yards its difficult to win, even though it dont show like all that many you gotta take into account the yards on special teams, its dissapointing.

[scott.475]

Lets hope he is laying down the foundation. I did a little quick research today, and in only 6 games this season has our defense allowed less than 25 points...disgusting.

[CrazyHorse]

Does his plan involve getting rid of Bob Slowik as step 1. Step 2 is acquiring better defensive talent.

[broken12]

right, I really hope he does something about this its horrible, even when they had huge leads earlier this season we couldnt stop the teams from coming back, i hope i read into shannys words right.

[tomjonesrocks]

Really hope "anytime you give up that many yards its difficult to win" is code for "our defensive coordinator isn't getting it done".

Yes our red-zone offense was not spot-on. Cutler threw his becoming-obligatory end-zone pick (though the desperation was setting in by then which tends to alter his decisionmaking). And oh yeah, Marshall fumbled--again.

All this aside, the Broncos had 532 yards of offense -- and lost. Whose fault can it be?

[honz]

Lets hope he is laying down the foundation. I did a little quick research today, and in only 6 games this season has our defense allowed less than 25 points...disgusting.

Cutler sux.

[Shazam!]

The revolving door of Coordinators is bad for the players on D too.

[Foxtrot]

So is it a new D-coordinator every year? This shouldn't be happening, someone is making bad hiring decisions.

[deacon]

So is it a new D-coordinator every year? This shouldn't be happening, someone is making bad hiring decisions.

I don't know much about Slowik, nor did I know much about the last 3-4 Defensive coordinators. But there's one thing I do know and that is the real possibility our defensive players are not good enough. In that case you could have your pick of any coordinator in the league and the results would be the same.

However my take is that defense didn't hurt us as bad today as the silly idea of kicking off short. I don't care how good your defense is, if you give the other team the ball in your territory or close to it it's pretty hard to hold them from scoring.

I know the coordinator is an easy target but I'm not at all sure it's his fault.

[Mike]

The team should not be afraid to get rid of a bum just because they have fired others in the past. Bob Slowick is not capable of being a good d-coord. It would be a shame if they used the firing of other d-coords as an excuse to keep him.

[Shazam!]

I still haven't forgotten how Shanahan got rid of Greg Robinson, his friend and part of his original staff, who IMO was an integral part of Denver's Super Bowl Champion teams. Should bring him back at this point the way things are now. This ?!@# with DCs is getting ridiculous, changing every year is just bad. Also shows bad judgement on Shanahan.

It's the horrible personnel on D.

[broken12]

nah its the scheme we cannot get off the field on third down and we are allowing record completion percentage for opposing qb's, this crap playing off the recievers 8-12 yds gots to stop especially in the red zone. I'd undertand it if we were blitzing but come on.

[Shazam!]

It was the scheme last year too.

[broken12]

yup it was slowiks scheme after i think week 3, shanny ditched bates scheme to go to slowiks.

[Lonestar]

yup it was slowiks scheme after i think week 3, shanny ditched bates scheme to go to slowiks.

it was at the bye week whenever that was last year..

we all know that with the existing personnel this one is not working.. does mikey?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Denver's problem on defense is this: They don't have a philosophy and have never drafted talent that fits in a particular cheme. We adjust our scheme to the players we have, and for the most part they suck. That is a recipe for disaster. You draft talent and people who buy into and more importantly fit into your system. We've done it with the offense, now we need to do it on the defense.

It isn't friggin' rocket science. Of course, this is the Cicero Simplified version. I've discussed this on the Forums for years. Nothing new.

[broken12]

does anybody really think that if slowik sticks that denvers defense would be any better next year. i mean what has been the constant the last 3yrs for denver is they cannot get off the field on 3rd down. now is it me or are all recievers and qbs seeming to get really hot against us. we allow record completion percentages and never get turnovers. does denver ever have a db lineup bump on 3rd and 3, no the defenders are always at least 8 yds back, slowik coaches this team not to give up a big play but its happening anyway. its pretty simple if dbs are 8-10 yds back throw short its like a giving up 5yds a run remember kc and miami and ne

[Lonestar]

does anybody really think that if slowik sticks that denvers defense would be any better next year. i mean what has been the constant the last 3yrs for denver is they cannot get off the field on 3rd down. now is it me or are all recievers and qbs seeming to get really hot against us. we allow record completion percentages and never get turnovers. does denver ever have a db lineup bump on 3rd and 3, no the defenders are always at least 8 yds back, slowik coaches this team not to give up a big play but its happening anyway. its pretty simple if dbs are 8-10 yds back throw short its like a giving up 5yds a run remember kc and miami and ne


they give up the big play each and every time they make a 3rd and anything.. bend but don't break never works. all it does is cause your D to wear down..

Hopefully Pat will lay down thew law and order mikey to give the clown his walking papers and hire a qualified DC that answers to PAT.

[Superchop 7]

Really hope "anytime you give up that many yards its difficult to win" is code for "our defensive coordinator isn't getting it done".

Yes our red-zone offense was not spot-on. Cutler threw his becoming-obligatory end-zone pick (though the desperation was setting in by then which tends to alter his decisionmaking). And oh yeah, Marshall fumbled--again.

All this aside, the Broncos had 532 yards of offense -- and lost. Whose fault can it be?

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________

On 3rd and 4th down.......all he had to do was throw the ball to the right spot.

[Shazam!]

Again I am not so quick to blame Slowick. This is the personnel he was given.

How many Seasons has the Broncos DLine sucked?

So bad that in 2005 Shanahan brought in the entire Cleveland DLine, which was from a losing team?

The Broncos desperately need all new position Coaches on defense. A pass rush specialist for the DLine, similar to Terrlinick who was here when Shanahan was first here, a new LBs Coach, and a new Strength and Conditioning coach to implement a new regime of flexibility and stretching to try to minimalize the plethora of stupid injuries they've had.

That and Draft a fast featured Back and some hulking DLinemen and I'll be happy.

[fcspikeit]

So is it a new D-coordinator every year? This shouldn't be happening, someone is making bad hiring decisions.

The same person firing is also hiring....

[fcspikeit]

We all know Shanahan is not going to fire his guy. He will keep him for at least another year.

We will draft a lot of defensive guys that Slowic thinks will fit his system, 2 years from now our D will still suck, Slowic will get the boot, another DC will come in. None of the current defensive guys we have will fit his new system, therefore we will have to start over on D.....

I just hope Shanahan can see how goofy slows defenses schemes are. please don't give him a pass. We need a good DC to come in, pick his staff and build his D with the players he needs.

Shanahan said slowic has the same philosophy as himself on D. That being said, could the problem be Shanahan? We have had the most success blitzing, yet after 2005 Shanny didn't want coyers blitzing scheme, so he went to the bend don't brake. That didn't work so he got fired. Bates came in with something new, after the bye, week 6 we dropped Bates system and went to the bend don't brake system of Slowic.

The pattern here seems to be Shanahan likes the bend don't brake. The loose coverage is a product of the bend don't brake. I don't think we will get an aggressive dc if Shanahan is doing the hiring. Pat needs to step in and hire him or we could be in trouble on D for a long time..

[Traveler]

6 games last year they gave up 30 points or more. This year, 8 games of 30 points or more.

Shanahan and the Goodman's better not select any offensive players in the 2009 draft. Fire the entire defensive staff and many of the players. Need to concentrate totally on defense and special teams the next two years.

[muse]

Again I am not so quick to blame Slowick. This is the personnel he was given.

After yesterday's performance though I think much of it has been Slowik's fault. It proved that when we blitz consistently, we can stop teams. When we play soft zone, we get raped. We'd probably get raped by the Lions if we were playing a soft zone against them. Our D is simply too fast to drop back and hope the QB makes a bad decision and it simply doesn't play to the team's strengths. And whilst we do have personnel deficiencies in some areas, I still believe a decent D-coordinator could make a middle-of-the-pack defence with these guys. Our DL does need help, yet Slowik has refused to send any (in the form of a blitz) for much of the season. If we blitz consistently, our front four should be able to get more pressure on its own when we drop back into coverage as the OL will have to be on their toes with blocking assignments.

I'm convinced that we need to hire someone to help Slowik with the D. Firing him would not be good for the players and he still has his uses as a good DBs coach. However, it's clear that he does not have what it takes to oversee the whole defence. There is so much raw speed on our defence and we're just pissing it away by playing the "sit-back-and-hope-the-QB-makes-idiot-throws" defence.

We almost certainly need an infusion of talent via the draft and maybe FA this year, but I think Slowik has made this D look worse than it is this year; my case in point is the DL. Our line is much better than it was last year (remember Fatty Adams/Alvin McKinley/Unfit-Marcus-Thomas-who-wasn't-meant-to-get-significant-game-time-last-year), we got Ek back and Jarvis has started looking like he may justify his draft selection in a couple of years. On top of that, Thomas is right on where he should be in his development and Robertson's been ok, if not as good as we expected (hopefully that'll change next year). I'm pretty sure that's been down to the scheme.

[roomemp]

We all new this season was going to be a tough one. We also can all agree that we knew even before the season started that Slowik was not the answer as the D coordinator. I would love to make the playoffs but if we don't, its no big deal. We have already accomplished so much this year. Our Offense is pretty much set, except for a rb, for years to come. Our D looked ugly today because we couldn't run the ball again (due to everyone being hurt) SO basically, in my opinion, if the seaon ended today, I would consider this year a success.

[Dirk]

I still say we need to get a monster DE. And then, we need to FIRE Nowin-k. I was excited as hell after the first quarter, and then the D's ugly head poked out and I knew it was over.

[Dirk]

Cutler sux.

I beg to differ here. I thought with the technical difficulties and again NO RUNNING game. It was all put on the shoulders of a 3rd year QB who showed more than just heart! He played a magnificent game. I was impressed by his poise. He is going to be something truly awesome.

He had:

359 Yards Passing, 1 INT
30 Yards Rushing and 2 touchdowns.

Cutler IS the offense. And should be given his props for hangining in there under the conditions this year (no running back) and terrible Defense!

[roomemp]

I still say we need to get a monster DE. And then, we need to FIRE Nowin-k. I was excited as hell after the first quarter, and then the D's ugly head poked out and I knew it was over.


Everyone wants Haynesworth. I say if we were to go after a high priced defensive starter, we should go after Peppers. Out DT are pretty ok actually. Our starting DE stink. We have 2 aging rotational players in Ekuban and Engleberger. I actually like both guys but not as starters. Peppers would be a real cornerstone to build around. I actually think we might go after him this year.

[broncofaninfla]

Bottom line. We need a complete overhaul on defense, players and coaches. Hire a new DC and build a team to his system.

[Mike]

I beg to differ here. I thought with the technical difficulties and again NO RUNNING game. It was all put on the shoulders of a 3rd year QB who showed more than just heart! He played a magnificent game. I was impressed by his poise. He is going to be something truly awesome.

He had:

359 Yards Passing, 1 INT
30 Yards Rushing and 2 touchdowns.

Cutler IS the offense. And should be given his props for hangining in there under the conditions this year (no running back) and terrible Defense!


Pretty sure Honz was being sarcastic. ;)

[Dirk]

Pretty sure Honz was being sarcastic. ;)

OH....ha!

Well, I said it anyway. LOL

[LRtagger]

If Shanny is building the foundation...then he might as well be building that foundation on quicksand with Slowik in charge.

[LRtagger]

Again I am not so quick to blame Slowick. This is the personnel he was given.

How many Seasons has the Broncos DLine sucked?

So bad that in 2005 Shanahan brought in the entire Cleveland DLine, which was from a losing team?

The Broncos desperately need all new position Coaches on defense. A pass rush specialist for the DLine, similar to Terrlinick who was here when Shanahan was first here, a new LBs Coach, and a new Strength and Conditioning coach to implement a new regime of flexibility and stretching to try to minimalize the plethora of stupid injuries they've had.

That and Draft a fast featured Back and some hulking DLinemen and I'll be happy.

I have said this time and time again. Do some research on Slowik as a DC and it will be blatantly obvious that the guy has no clue how to put a competant defense on the field. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with Slowik being a big vagina and not wanting to give up the big plays.

Look at the first quarter of the game yesterday. We put the heat on with blitzes and mixed up the coverages. We were able to hold the Bills to NEGATIVE TWO yards in the entire quarter. Meanwhile Denver had what I think was 250+ yards of offense. Slowik actually did a good job in the first quarter...same talent that we have always had.

Then the entire coaching staff tried to milk the remaining three quarters. We kicked off short so we didnt get burnt on the returns. We stopped blitzing and started again with the huge cushions by the DBs. We left our LBs standing there picking their asses waiting for the play to come to them. And we lost the game.

If we had stayed aggressive, kept on blitzing and mixing it up on D, had some faith in our KO coverage, ran the ball, and kept on doing WHAT WAS ALREADY WORKING we would have easily breezed right through the game and won the West.

I guarantee you that next week Slowik puts another soft scheme on the field and we get picked apart by their O. It wouldnt matter what personnel we had on the field. If you dont give the opposing QB anything to think about, he will make the correct read 90% of the time...It is the reason why average QBs put up impossible QB ratings against us. SLOWIK DOESN'T FOOL ANYONE. He puts the cookiest cutter schemes on the field and they DONT WORK.

[broken12]

amazing the last two yrs slowik has been in charge of defense has allowed 88.3% and 96.7% completion percentages for opposing qbs this is horrible, theyre completing just about everything out.

[hamrob]

After yesterday's performance though I think much of it has been Slowik's fault. It proved that when we blitz consistently, we can stop teams. When we play soft zone, we get raped. We'd probably get raped by the Lions if we were playing a soft zone against them. Our D is simply too fast to drop back and hope the QB makes a bad decision and it simply doesn't play to the team's strengths. And whilst we do have personnel deficiencies in some areas, I still believe a decent D-coordinator could make a middle-of-the-pack defence with these guys. Our DL does need help, yet Slowik has refused to send any (in the form of a blitz) for much of the season. If we blitz consistently, our front four should be able to get more pressure on its own when we drop back into coverage as the OL will have to be on their toes with blocking assignments.

I'm convinced that we need to hire someone to help Slowik with the D. Firing him would not be good for the players and he still has his uses as a good DBs coach. However, it's clear that he does not have what it takes to oversee the whole defence. There is so much raw speed on our defence and we're just pissing it away by playing the "sit-back-and-hope-the-QB-makes-idiot-throws" defence.

We almost certainly need an infusion of talent via the draft and maybe FA this year, but I think Slowik has made this D look worse than it is this year; my case in point is the DL. Our line is much better than it was last year (remember Fatty Adams/Alvin McKinley/Unfit-Marcus-Thomas-who-wasn't-meant-to-get-significant-game-time-last-year), we got Ek back and Jarvis has started looking like he may justify his draft selection in a couple of years. On top of that, Thomas is right on where he should be in his development and Robertson's been ok, if not as good as we expected (hopefully that'll change next year). I'm pretty sure that's been down to the scheme.Yes, I've never understood why we don't blitz our LB's more. Especially when you have a guy like Webster...who does absolutely nothing on every play anyways. We could send him every down and at least there would be more emphasis on getting the QB. Webster just sits there with cement cleats in the middle. I've never seen such a worthless piece of dung on this defense. Might as well run/pass blitz the turd!

[muse]

Another thing about our (few) blitzes is that they're usually telegraphed (although we've used the show blitz a lot more recently) and for some reason straight up the middle, not a lot around the edges to help out our DEs. Against Atlanta, for example, we sent a house blitz. Jack Williams when straight through the middle which Ryan recognised and rolled out away from him. I was completely baffled as to why our nickel back was lined up in the middle of the formation.