Blame CUtler

[silkamilkamonico]

Blame Cutler for missing those open deep balls for TD's.

Blame Cutler for throwing interceptions.

Blame Cutler for a completely inept running game, and the coaches ill regard to properly condition the players to play at that level.

Blame Cutler for having a WR corp that is among the league's tops at dropped balls.

Blame Cutler for having arguably the worst defense in the NFL.

Blame Cutler, and trade him now for Brian Griese.

[broken12]

***EDIT*** blame the defense for not stoppping an oppponent all year. If it werent for cutler we would be 3-13, OVER 500 YARDS OF OFFENSE AND WE LOSE BECUASE SORRY ASS DEFENSIVE SCHEME

[Northman]

You do realize he was being sarcastic right?

[silkamilkamonico]

F-off dude, blame the defense for not stoppping an oppponent all year. If it werent for cutler we would be 3-13

Great comprehension reading into the sarcasm. You missed out on your gold star for the day.

[Slick]

The Bills teed off on Jay in the first quarter, and never stopped. Obviously we need a major talent infusion on defense as well as a new coordinator IMO, but Jay needs a RB to take some pressure off him.

I appreciate your sarcasm silk. Thanks for the laugh. :salute:

[slim]

F-off dude, blame the defense for not stoppping an oppponent all year. If it werent for cutler we would be 3-13, OVER 500 YARDS OF OFFENSE AND WE LOSE BECUASE SORRY ASS DEFENSIVE SCHEME

It would be awesome if you could post over at the mane.

[weazel]

blame cutler for missing those open deep balls for td's.

Blame cutler for throwing interceptions.

Blame cutler for a completely inept running game, and the coaches ill regard to properly condition the players to play at that level.

Blame cutler for having a wr corp that is among the league's tops at dropped balls.

Blame cutler for having arguably the worst defense in the nfl.

Blame cutler, and trade him now for brian griese.

blame canada!

[G_Money]

The Bills teed off on Jay in the first quarter, and never stopped. Obviously we need a major talent infusion on defense as well as a new coordinator IMO, but Jay needs a RB to take some pressure off him.

I appreciate your sarcasm silk. Thanks for the laugh. :salute:

I was disturbed to hear the commentators saying that the injuries to RBs this year validate our RBBC. Per Shanahan, he feels like he can get a running back anywhere and doesn't have to pay dollars or high draftpicks to do it.

Which would be fine, except we weren't running well when we were healthy. We DO need a better running attack, and if we can't keep em healthy then we definitely need better backup backs.

I hope we don't put it all on Torain and Hillis next year.

~G

[Slick]

I was disturbed to hear the commentators saying that the injuries to RBs this year validate our RBBC. Per Shanahan, he feels like he can get a running back anywhere and doesn't have to pay dollars or high draftpicks to do it.

Which would be fine, except we weren't running well when we were healthy. We DO need a better running attack, and if we can't keep em healthy then we definitely need better backup backs.

I hope we don't put it all on Torain and Hillis next year.

~G

James Davis please. Darren Sproiles in FA if it's possible. Hillis can stay, Torain I guess. He looked mediocre in the few runs I saw him have in the Browns game before he went down.

I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Hillis and showing everyone else the door. There's just no toughness there. None.

[Tned]

I was disturbed to hear the commentators saying that the injuries to RBs this year validate our RBBC. Per Shanahan, he feels like he can get a running back anywhere and doesn't have to pay dollars or high draftpicks to do it.

Which would be fine, except we weren't running well when we were healthy. We DO need a better running attack, and if we can't keep em healthy then we definitely need better backup backs.

I hope we don't put it all on Torain and Hillis next year.

~G

Well, I read that Shanny has said that he plans to use Hillis in an H-back type role next year and thinks Torain will be a big contributor.

[Foochacho]

F-off dude, blame the defense for not stoppping an oppponent all year. If it werent for cutler we would be 3-13, OVER 500 YARDS OF OFFENSE AND WE LOSE BECUASE SORRY ASS DEFENSIVE SCHEME

I always feel sorry for retards. Good luck with the rest of your life you have my support. It's good that you learned to use a keyboard. Keep on trucking corky.

[G_Money]

Well, I read that Shanny has said that he plans to use Hillis in an H-back type role next year and thinks Torain will be a big contributor.

"The one guy all year who ran hard should really be used as a TE. I know my offense is designed around the RB position catching 50 balls a year so he could run the ball for us AND catch it without us having to carve out a new position for him, but screw that. Let's make him the H back we've never had.

"Also, I love my massively-broken, never-tested RB to be the answer for me at that position, and have no plans to add a decent RB in the draft because I'm sure that even though he's blown out his knee and had an experimental procedure performed on his foot, I'm sure he'll be back at 100% no problem. And that that 100% is as much of a RB as we'll ever need.

"Besides, if he goes down again I can just put Hillis there, so there's still no need right? All quiet on the western front."

Shanahan needs to stop drinking before he has these press conferences. :tsk:

~G

[Northman]

James Davis please. Darren Sproiles in FA if it's possible. Hillis can stay, Torain I guess. He looked mediocre in the few runs I saw him have in the Browns game before he went down.

I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Hillis and showing everyone else the door. There's just no toughness there. None.

Have to say i agree. Davis or Scott would be really nice behind Hillis. Maybe add in Sproles or another scat back and we would be set at that position i think.

[honz]

If Cutler really cared about this team he would line up at DE. He could do a better job than the hacks we are throwing out there right now, most likely.

[elsid13]

If Cutler really cared about this team he would line up at DE. He could do a better job than the hacks we are throwing out there right now, most likely.

Actually Safety, where most colleges wanted him to play. Sammy Baugh did it why can't Cutler.

[gobroncsnv]

I was disturbed to hear the commentators saying that the injuries to RBs this year validate our RBBC. Per Shanahan, he feels like he can get a running back anywhere and doesn't have to pay dollars or high draftpicks to do it.

Which would be fine, except we weren't running well when we were healthy. We DO need a better running attack, and if we can't keep em healthy then we definitely need better backup backs.

I hope we don't put it all on Torain and Hillis next year.

~G

Well, I think Shanny has to say stuff like that to boost his players. I can't see the FO feeling we need not worry about the ground "attack". No question this has to be shored up.

Although, this didn't cost us the game. For all of the sarcasm about it, this was another game where Jay missed some WIDE open receivers. If Elway, Jake, Griese, and others had to take their lumps for poor play, the Mr Cutler needs to step up to the plate as well.

If you think that we got 500 some yards in a game, but scoring only 23 points is acceptable, then I guess we have a difference of opinion. We should have had 35 today. At LEAST. Buff pressured a couple of times, but there were many opportunities missed.

I haven't seen a long ball hit a receiver in stride this year yet, as I recall. As great (really mean that) as our passing attack is this year, deep throws are not yet a strength. And the problem is not the receivers, nor the oline.

[Watchthemiddle]

Well, I think Shanny has to say stuff like that to boost his players. I can't see the FO feeling we need not worry about the ground "attack". No question this has to be shored up.

Although, this didn't cost us the game. For all of the sarcasm about it, this was another game where Jay missed some WIDE open receivers. If Elway, Jake, Griese, and others had to take their lumps for poor play, the Mr Cutler needs to step up to the plate as well.

If you think that we got 500 some yards in a game, but scoring only 23 points is acceptable, then I guess we have a difference of opinion. We should have had 35 today. At LEAST. Buff pressured a couple of times, but there were many opportunities missed.

I haven't seen a long ball hit a receiver in stride this year yet, as I recall. As great (really mean that) as our passing attack is this year, deep throws are not yet a strength. And the problem is not the receivers, nor the oline.

Couldn't agree with you more. I know this thread was built on sarcasm, but there needs to come a time where people take off the blinders and stop drinking the Cutler kool-aid and hold him accountable for his inconsistent play.

1 great pass followed by 3 in double coverage and another missing a wide open WR is not acceptable. Cutler needs to lay off the cocky juice and start playing some ball. Stop thinking he can fit every throw in every spot and check down. When he is on, he is ON. When he is off he is WAY OFF!!

[BroncoAV06]

Couldn't agree with you more. I know this thread was built on sarcasm, but there needs to come a time where people take off the blinders and stop drinking the Cutler kool-aid and hold him accountable for his inconsistent play.

1 great pass followed by 3 in double coverage and another missing a wide open WR is not acceptable. Cutler needs to lay off the cocky juice and start playing some ball. Stop thinking he can fit every throw in every spot and check down. When he is on, he is ON. When he is off he is WAY OFF!!

But at the same time when he is throwing 45 times he is not going to throw 45 great passes, when the defense knows that is all you can do you do not have alot of options in what reads you have. You have to give him credit for still slinging it late in the game where I am sure it felt like his shoulder was going to fall off, you could see he lost some touch as well.

Happens when you lose RB's left and right and are forced into one game plan. WR's have to be gased as well late. Just another perfect storm of not enough for the Broncos..

[Dean]

I don't think that anyone needs to worry about Cutler getting raked over the coals for his mistakes. It is my opinion that in professional sports it is bound to happen irregarless of where you play. In Denver, I know that it will occur.

Elway (Profootball Hall of Fame) through most of his career got flack from Denver fans. Greise and Plummer got grief every week during the season for their mistakes and many times for mistakes that weren't theirs. Criticism comes shortly after stepping out on the field.

[silkamilkamonico]

Couldn't agree with you more. I know this thread was built on sarcasm, but there needs to come a time where people take off the blinders and stop drinking the Cutler kool-aid and hold him accountable for his inconsistent play.

1 great pass followed by 3 in double coverage and another missing a wide open WR is not acceptable. Cutler needs to lay off the cocky juice and start playing some ball. Stop thinking he can fit every throw in every spot and check down. When he is on, he is ON. When he is off he is WAY OFF!!

Terrible.

If you like, I can go over every single top 10 QB in the NFL, and show you exactly how they are just as "inconsistent" as Cutler. Cutler "plays ball" just fine.

Cutler is also the only QB of all the playoff eligible QB's left that doesn't have a running game, or a defense for that matter, and he's still Pro Bowl material.

It isn't about "drinking any kool-aid". It's about looking at the simple fact that Cutler has to carry the entire defense, and running game, special team, on his shoulders, and he still has the oppurtunity for a playoff appearance.

We'll quit "drinking the kool-aid" when a lot of the ignorant people learn the concept of an offense/defense/special teams "team"?

BTW, awesome special teams today. Continuously giving up half the field on squib kicks because you're afraid of 1 potential big play was brilliant. Not.

[omac]

I wasn't able to see the game. Based on what I gather reading this thread, and looking up NFL.com play-by-play and stats ....

The first drive attempt to tie the game the started at the Denver 24 and ended at the Buffalo 15; the 2nd drive attempt to tie started at the Denver 39 and ended at the Buffalo 15. There were 21 plays in those drives, and of them, only 2 were rushing plays .... 1 by Bell for 3 yards, the other a scramble by Cutler for 9 yards. Tough to score in the red zone when the opponent knows you're gonna pass. If the defense is loading up against the passing TD, then we should run ... anyone want to trust Bell with the game? :D

Our rushing offense was good on the 1st drive; the succeeding drives yielded 2, 2, 10(Cutler), 9(Royal), 1, 2, 3, 7, -1, 8, -3, 4(Cutler), 12, 3(negated), -6(Cutler), 0, 6(Cutler,TD), 2, 3, 9(Cutler). After the 1st drive, Bell/Young/Pople were getting mostly 2 yarders; the bigger gains were usually by Cutler, but of the designed rushes for our RBs, only 3 were decent. That is not a dependable rushing offense. And every time we were close to the endzone, we didn't trust Bell, Young, or Pope with the ball.

Cutler had 359 yards passing, 30 yards rushing, 2 rushing TDs, and 1 INT. Of the 9 Bronco drives (not including the 1st half kneel-down), he brought them to the redzone 6 times. The other 3 drives were the Marshall fumble, the 54 yard missed FG, and one was a FG from the 25.

I agree with silkamilkamonico, tough to blame this one on Cutler. He did everything but play defense and special teams. :D

[omac]

Cutler is also the only QB of all the playoff eligible QB's left that doesn't have a running game, or a defense for that matter, and he's still Pro Bowl material.

I agree with you, but just a correction .... Kurt Warner doesn't have a running game either, so he's forced to throw the ball up a lot too. Over his last 5 games, he's had the same number of INTs as he does TDs. He's also lost 3 of his last 5. Kurt Warner is still a very good QB, but without a rushing offense, defenses will overplay the pass and can make any QB look bad. At least Warner still has a goal-line back in Hightower. Yeah, let's rush Tatum up the middle. :D

QB's need a rushing offense to keep defenses honest.

[silkamilkamonico]

Cutler played great.

He missed a couple throws, and he made a bad decision. Just like 31 other starting QB's in the NFL on a week to week basis. The only difference is, Cutler's mistakes are amplified because he's the only thing that keeps Denver afloat.

I remember last year when Indianapolis didn't have a running game. What happened? Peyton Manning threw 6 interceptions. In one game.

[honz]

Peyton Manning sux.

[silkamilkamonico]

I agree with you, but just a correction .... Kurt Warner doesn't have a running game either, so he's forced to throw the ball up a lot too. Over his last 5 games, he's had the same number of INTs as he does TDs. He's also lost 3 of his last 5. Kurt Warner is still a very good QB, but without a rushing offense, defenses will overplay the pass and can make any QB look bad. At least Warner still has a goal-line back in Hightower. Yeah, let's rush Tatum up the middle. :D

QB's need a rushing offense to keep defenses honest.

Kurt Warner has a resemblance of a defense. At least better than Denver's.

Actually it's a good comparison. Both QB's are 8-7. Both have had terrible days of utter ineptitude, and both QB's are the only chance whatsoever of both teams even sniffing a win.

[gobroncsnv]

Cool... no running game means you don't have to hit receivers when they are 15 yards from a defender... happened at LEAST 2 times, WIDE stinkin' open.... when your slot receiver is breaking toward the middle (left) and the ball sails over his head (right)....

I like Jay, and he will develop, but MAN, there were some squandered opportunities on his part today, that could have won us the game.

And, I have to ask, have we seen ANY plays this year where he hits a receiver in stride after he gets behind the defense? Always having to come back to the ball, etc... somehow, other teams manage to do that just fine.

Do I sound frustrated? You bet. Somehow, the timing is off. The running game was a crime today, and this season, I GET that. No doubt in my mind that is pretty useful in having success on offense. But so is hitting an open man.

Jay is NOT our only chance of sniffing a win, because we have a GREAT oline that keeps his butt off the ground, along with his mobility, and also, he has some receivers that clean up alot of his forced throws.

Dropped passes are on the receiver, and those hurt just as much as the painful overthrows. So I'm not putting this all on Jay, but I'm not about to keep from pointing it out when he has to take some blame. And there are other threads about the efense, many of which I've commented in this season. Every phase of the game was awful, coaching to the water boys. Jay gets his share. Lot of yards, not enough points. It was Buffalo out there, not Baltimore.

[BroncoTech]

Cutler: Okay, I've consulted directly with coach and here's the play he wants to run.
Brandon, go deep
Sheff, cut across the middle.
Eddy, do what Brandon does, but on the other side.
Tatum, Please try to stay out of the way.
On 3, Break!

Team: BRONCOS!

[Magnificent Seven]

I would blame it on Offensive Coordinator. He should have told Cutler to throw a short pass to receive 1st down and call a final time-out. Therefore, they can have more time to strategy on this play to get a touchdown.

[silkamilkamonico]

I like Jay, and he will develop, but MAN, there were some squandered opportunities on his part today, that could have won us the game.


Every QB in the NFL squanders plays every game. Unfortunately for that argument, a lot of those QB's have defenses to bail them out, or even a running game. Jay does not.

[NameUsedBefore]

Yes some throws were off. This is December, not September. This is the month where you're supposed to be grinding opposing defenses into the mud with a running game, not gunslinging around without even showing the slightest interest in handing the ball off.

Cutler missed some throws, sure, but he also had a lot of dudes in his face when he did so. He also made plenty of clutch throws as well. In case you have already forgotten, Stokely did have his hands on that last pass, it was simply well played by the defense.

Either way, I think some are putting way too much into this game. The fact it was even respectable is pretty amazing in itself, seeing as how Cutler was throwing into nickel and dime all day against a defensive line that did not have to respect any kind of running game at all.

[broncophan]

Every QB in the NFL squanders plays every game. Unfortunately for that argument, a lot of those QB's have defenses to bail them out, or even a running game. Jay does not.


Why is it that there is always an "out" for Cutler???...........the kid just makes alot of mistakes......whether he has a defense.......a running game......cheerleaders rooting for him......or whatever.

He does good things......and stupid things.........and as he learns,hopefully, how to be a winner.....and a leader......hopefully he will do less of the stupid things and more of the good things.

I don't think Cutler was drafted to throw for 4000 yards a season.....at least I hope not.
hopefully he was drafted to lead his team to wins........and consistantly get his team to the playoffs.....and hopefully some day.....the superbowl...

[silkamilkamonico]

Why is it that there is always an "out" for Cutler???...........the kid just makes alot of mistakes......whether he has a defense.......a running game......cheerleaders rooting for him......or whatever.

He does good things......and stupid things.........and as he learns,hopefully, how to be a winner.....and a leader......hopefully he will do less of the stupid things and more of the good things.

I don't think Cutler was drafted to throw for 4000 yards a season.....at least I hope not.
hopefully he was drafted to lead his team to wins........and consistantly get his team to the playoffs.....and hopefully some day.....the superbowl...

1)The kid makes a lot of mistakes because the kid takes a lot of chances. The more chances you take, the more throws you make, the more probability mistakes will be made. It's the only way Denver can win games.

2)The kid has won 6 games basically single handily for Denver this year. How many QB's can say that this season?

3)You make a great point with Cutler not being drafted to throw for 4000 yards. Yet he has too because there isn't a single other aspect on the team that has stepped up. Ofcourse he's going to make mistakes.

4)Cutler has to throw the ball 35+ times for Denver to have a chance to win. How many QB's in the NFL, right now, can win games by throwing the ball 35+ times a game? Be serious.

[fcspikeit]

"The one guy all year who ran hard should really be used as a TE. I know my offense is designed around the RB position catching 50 balls a year so he could run the ball for us AND catch it without us having to carve out a new position for him, but screw that. Let's make him the H back we've never had.

"Also, I love my massively-broken, never-tested RB to be the answer for me at that position, and have no plans to add a decent RB in the draft because I'm sure that even though he's blown out his knee and had an experimental procedure performed on his foot, I'm sure he'll be back at 100% no problem. And that that 100% is as much of a RB as we'll ever need.

"Besides, if he goes down again I can just put Hillis there, so there's still no need right? All quiet on the western front."

Shanahan needs to stop drinking before he has these press conferences. :tsk:

~G

G that sad thing is people actually are buying into this. Look at our running #s for this game, they look pretty good right? Yet anyone who watched the game knows we couldn't run the ball worth the damn when we really needed to.

At the end of the year Shanny will point out our running #'s and say, we weren't that bad running the football. It's crap and I'm getting tiered of it. The best teams in the NFL have great backs. We need a great back. Bring one in here, if Hillis beats him out, great! Either way, we will have a good back helping our passing game out...

[BroncoTech]

Our running numbers were putrid with Jay throwing 45 times. Jay had 30 yards rushing the running backs had 44, 20 and 16 yards. We basically had 44 yards rushing the first drive and then 36 yards for all the other drives combined. Selvin Young was supposed to be our starter with 2000 yards this year, his words, not mine. Watch your luggage because I can see at least one cut coming.

[dogfish]

G that sad thing is people actually are buying into this. Look at our running #s for this game, they look pretty good right? Yet anyone who watched the game knows we couldn't run the ball worth the damn when we really needed to.

At the end of the year Shanny will point out our running #'s and say, we weren't that bad running the football. It's crap and I'm getting tiered of it. The best teams in the NFL have great backs. We need a great back. Bring one in here, if Hillis beats him out, great! Either way, we will have a good back helping our passing game out...

actually, most of the elite teams have a great back AND a really good one, or at least two really good ones. . . the titans picked a back in the 1st round even though they already had a productive runner and had spent a 2nd rounder on another back the year before-- henry busting didn't scare them away, they went right back the next year and spent another high selection despite not having a single quality WR on the roster. . . the panthers spent a first rounder even though they just spent one two years ago, and their running game has just been crushing people. . . anyone who watched tonight's game between the league's top two teams (IMO) got a great display of what a top running game can do. . .

we may be running for a solid 4.7 YPC average this year, but a lot of that has come from picking up easy yards running draws on passing downs, popping some reverses, etc-- like today, where 100 yards and both of our TDs came from a reverse and QB scrambles. . . yea, it all goes towards the totals, but those types of plays don't do much for you when it comes to things like protecting leads and wearing down defenses-- count on QB runs to move the chains too much and you're going to wind up without a QB!

we ran for 4.7 YPC back in 2005 also, but that year we put up 2,500+ total rushing yards and 25 TDs-- this year, with one game left we have about 1,950 and 15 TDs on the ground. . . when running back by scrub committee was producing i didn't complain about it, but watching what's happened this year i think it's pretty obvious that this offense is a longshot to reach its full potential if we don't add a quality RB. . . i do like hillis a lot, but we need another-- i wish to god shanahan would swallow his stubborn insistence that he can make do with any warm body and just spend a high pick to get a damn legitimate tailback in one of the next two drafts! it's all well and good to say you can get production from anybody, but that rhetoric doesn't do a thing for you when you're in desperate need of a running game to bring some balance to your offense and you have such little faith in your backs that you're going empty backfield on like 75% of your snaps. . . kinda makes it easy for the DLs to get upfield while everybody else drops into coverage, and it completely removes the play-action which has been so deadly for us over the years from your playbook. . .

[silkamilkamonico]

RB average is the most deceptive stat on football.

For example, Eddie Royals 71 yard run brought Denver's total rushing game average from 4.2 to 6.7 ypc. After Pope went injured, Denver averaged 3.0 ypc the final 3 quarters.

All of a sudden that 6.7 ypc doesn't look so impressive does it.

[Shazam!]

Stats lie in Football. They are not the Be All End All.

In 1997, the Broncos let Napolean Kaufman (@ Oakland) run for two back to back 50-something yard TDs and their Defense suddenly averaged way over 100+ yards a game. This was talked about incessantly by 'experts and analysts' leading into the postseason, how no team with such a terrible run defense can win in the Playoffs.

If you subtracted that game, the Broncos run defense averages were respectable.

[omac]

Funny ... while defenses are forcing the Titans to beat them with Kerry Collins, or the Vikings to beat them with Gus or Tarvaris ... defenses are forcing us to beat them with Tatum Bell and Selvin Young. :banghead:

[omac]

Makes me wonder ... will we take our lumps making Bell or Young a big part of the offense against SD and risk a lot of 3-and-outs, or are we going to continue to pass against a defense that will be set-up primarily against the pass?

[OrangeStar7]

blame canada!

Blame George & Laura BUSH.:elefant:

[broncophan]

Makes me wonder ... will we take our lumps making Bell or Young a big part of the offense against SD and risk a lot of 3-and-outs, or are we going to continue to pass against a defense that will be set-up primarily against the pass?

Good question........but I don't thik it matters.....we will not be able to stop anything Rivers and SD does anyhow......so it just doesn't matter.....imo

[omac]

Good question........but I don't thik it matters.....we will not be able to stop anything Rivers and SD does anyhow......so it just doesn't matter.....imo

I'm usually an optimist with regards to the Broncos, but I have to agree with you.

Up until the Carolina game, we had at least 1 RB we could rely on to carry his own weight and a little more. When we were about to play Carolina and we activated Boyd, I thought we found another back who could step up. Then before the game, they cut him to bring him back to the PS. That's when I knew we were in trouble. All it took was watching the first few plays, and how Bell and Young ran to know we were going to lose the Carolina game. After that, pending acquiring a new RB from FA, I knew the Bills would just follow the Panthers defensive philosophy against us, and we'd most likely lose. Now we're facing SD with the same 2 RBs.

Unless Bell and Young can miraculously turn into tough runners who we can rely on for 4 yards, we will lose to the Chargers. Btw, LT and Gates seem to have recovered from their turf toes. :D

First order of business next season: fire the strength and conditioning coach ... no way a ton of our players get this much injuries in the span of 2 seasons.

[horsepig]

Boy, I don't know', the Broncos will be at about sea level-----------squib kick to the sparklers 35 and hope some fat guy picks it up and can only get it to midfield?

[CoachChaz]

I think we expect too much out of Cutler. There arent very many QB's that lead a team to the Super Bowl and play flawlessly in the third season. Compare him to guys like Favre and Elway at this point in their careers and see what you come up with.

Regardless of his play, we can be rest assured that our running game next year will not look alot different than it currently does. Shanny's ego will simply not allow him to draft a running back very high. The success of Terrell Davis has it's downside. Shanny believes a system can produce greatness and just wont bring in a stud to carry the load. But even if he did...then what? Twice he's selected a RB in round 2 and both times he's traded that player...after they've had success...for a cornerback that someone is going to play 10 yards off the ball.

I'm just not counting on Shanny admitting defeat and drafting a REAL running back.

[horsepig]

Really, I do like Shanny but, this kickoff thing is humiliating. Other team's fans laughing at our defense? Who could care less about that when our NFL team squibs it to the 25.

I don't care what other fans think about our D, only what I think. What I think is that if only Boss had come back too, we might have only given up 40 to the Bills. Man I can easily see why Slow/Shanny would want Webster and DJ in there. Woodyard is a relic, a STmer, give the "better" players a break guy.

If anybody thinks this D can stop Phillis I want to know how.

[horsepig]

I think we expect too much out of Cutler. There arent very many QB's that lead a team to the Super Bowl and play flawlessly in the third season. Compare him to guys like Favre and Elway at this point in their careers and see what you come up with.

Regardless of his play, we can be rest assured that our running game next year will not look alot different than it currently does. Shanny's ego will simply not allow him to draft a running back very high. The success of Terrell Davis has it's downside. Shanny believes a system can produce greatness and just wont bring in a stud to carry the load. But even if he did...then what? Twice he's selected a RB in round 2 and both times he's traded that player...after they've had success...for a cornerback that someone is going to play 10 yards off the ball.

I'm just not counting on Shanny admitting defeat and drafting a REAL running back.


Coach, do you not think DLine is more important? Look at the current crop of successful RBs, they all have thighs like my sisters', except Peterson, but look at Williams and Stewart-pounders. Hillis is the guy IMO.

[horsepig]

Shanny's draft choices have been relatively small, fast backs. Wrong, TD was no scat back, find a hole and run down hill real hard, just like Hillis, plus he can catch anything close.

Hillis can plow those tough yards better than anybody except Pittman, I think Hillis is even better. Forget Torain. Maybe Torain could become the backup-40-60 carries.

Maybe add a guy like Gartrell Johnson from CSU, big thighs, pounder, wont fall down when a corner sticks out a finger.

We need some beef up front on the Dline.

[CoachChaz]

PEYTON HILLIS IS A FULLBACK...NOT A 25 CARRY TAILBACK.

Please raise your hand if you understand the difference.

[horsepig]

Sorry, I seem to be obsessed with pounding thighs, but maybe good for a kickoff guy?

[horsepig]

PEYTON HILLIS IS A FULLBACK...NOT A 25 CARRY TAILBACK.

Please raise your hand if you understand the difference.

Can't put my hand up coach, the game is changing. How many 25-30 carries/game RBs are in the NFL?

[horsepig]

LT is done. Its over.

[horsepig]

Even Carolina uses 2.

[CoachChaz]

Carolina uses 2 becasue they were about ready to give up on Williams when they drafted Stewart. He is on pace to double his previous high in yards and will still have over 250 carries.

Tennessee uses 2, but it's not like they have anything that resembles a passing game. Johnson and White could very well combine for 500 carries if they hadnt locked up home field advantage yesterday.

Anyway, we could discuss this with ever team in the NFL. You need to have a solid "Plan B", but RBBC is not always the definition of that.

[horsepig]

Coach, Hillis is a pounder. 12 carries/game, 5 receptions. Can get tough yards, push the pile and hit like hell. From what I've seen he picks up the rush pretty good too. You want Clinton Portis, good luck finding him, and he wont stay healthy.

Why is Stewart better than Hillis? Stewart is a TB? Looks like a FB to me.

[broncofaninfla]

PEYTON HILLIS IS A FULLBACK...NOT A 25 CARRY TAILBACK.

Please raise your hand if you understand the difference.

Did you actually watch any of the games this year or did you just make your mind up about Hillis when he was drafted last year and decided then that he wasn't going to contribute? Hillis is BY FAR the best RB we have and he DOES have the skills to be a feature back. Do we need anybody else? Of course we do but Hillis has the skills to be a HUGE contributor in not just our running game but our offense in general.

[Northman]

Carolina uses 2 becasue they were about ready to give up on Williams when they drafted Stewart. He is on pace to double his previous high in yards and will still have over 250 carries.

Tennessee uses 2, but it's not like they have anything that resembles a passing game. Johnson and White could very well combine for 500 carries if they hadnt locked up home field advantage yesterday.

Anyway, we could discuss this with ever team in the NFL. You need to have a solid "Plan B", but RBBC is not always the definition of that.

I dont mind the RBBC but i do agree with you that we need a back who can at least take some punishment and we dont have any of that right now. If we can get a guy like that it would make Hillis much more valuable than he already is.

[CoachChaz]

Coach, Hillis is a pounder. 12 carries/game, 5 receptions. Can get tough yards, push the pile and hit like hell. From what I've seen he picks up the rush pretty good too. You want Clinton Portis, good luck finding him, and he wont stay healthy.

Why is Stewart better than Hillis? Stewart is a TB? Looks like a FB to me.

When you groom yoour body and your game to be a fullback for 5 or 6 years and then suddenly try to play tailback, things like torn hamstrings start to happen. Tell Haynesworth to go be a Pro-Bowl DE. It's the same as a DT, isn't it?

I'll be happy with Hillis touching the ball 10-15 times a game via rush/pass...but I want a guy that can go 20-25 if needed and offers th threat of making a run longer than 5 or 6 yards.

[horsepig]

I might be wrong here but, I think the Broncos are looking 2- 225 or so carry backs. Do you think Shanny wants to do 3 yards and a cloud of dust with this O?

[horsepig]

Good point. Hillis was always a TB til McFadden and Jones showed up though. Not like he's been a "plugger" FB since 5'th grade.

[horsepig]

BTW coach, I do believe Hillis had more than one 19 yard burst.

[horsepig]

I feel like a RB coach arguing with the head man here.

[Dean]

When you groom yoour body and your game to be a fullback for 5 or 6 years and then suddenly try to play tailback, things like torn hamstrings start to happen.

Did you see the play that Hillis tore his hammy? It had to do with his cletes being planted and a D-back taking a shot at his back. The force of the impact bent Hillis until his head was between his legs. That has absolutely nothing to do with grooming his body. Get realistic.


Tell Haynesworth to go be a Pro-Bowl DE. It's the same as a DT, isn't it?

It is not the same. The NFL running back of the past were what are fullbacks today- Csonka, Campbell, the 'bus', to nane a few. I wouldn't be surprised if Hayesworth could make the shift to DE just like a certain Bronco all-pro player of a few years back but that is not pertinent to the arguement at hand.


I'll be happy with Hillis touching the ball 10-15 times a game via rush/pass...but I want a guy that can go 20-25 if needed and offers th threat of making a run longer than 5 or 6 yards.

Look at Hillis's carries of over 10 yards or even over 20 yard. He can break it for a big gain.
:coffee:

[CoachChaz]

You can all argue the scenario all you want, but I'll say it. We will NOT have a threatening ground game with Hillis as the number one guy out of the backfield.

Give him 8-10 carries to change things up...that's fine. But if he is the top guy, we're screwed.

[Dean]

When you groom yoour body and your game to be a fullback for 5 or 6 years and then suddenly try to play tailback, things like torn hamstrings start to happen. Tell Haynesworth to go be a Pro-Bowl DE. It's the same as a DT, isn't it?

The injury was the result of extreme hyperextension not conditioning. Look at the video. Many RBs from the past and present are 230 to 250 pound men- Csonka, Campbell, the Bus, the Giants RB.

Switching Haynesworth to DE has nothing to do with this discussion but if you remember the Broncos last all pro-DT/DE it could happen.


I'll be happy with Hillis touching the ball 10-15 times a game via rush/pass...but I want a guy that can go 20-25 if needed and offers th threat of making a run longer than 5 or 6 yards.

Hillis has had several runs of over 20 yard in his short time as a Bronco RB. Walter Payton made many long runs but he didn't have fantastic speed. You are welcome to your own preferences but don't preclude other posters preferences as being unrealistic. It could happen.

[CoachChaz]

Hillis has had several runs of over 20 yard in his short time as a Bronco RB. Walter Payton made many long runs but he didn't have fantastic speed. You are welcome to your own preferences but don't preclude other posters preferences as being unrealistic. It could happen.

That's interesting because his 2 longest runs are 18 and 19 yards.

Please dont reference Walter Payton when discussing Hillis.

As I said a hundred times...I have no problem with Hillis as a compliment getting 8-10 carries and a few receptions. but he is NOT a feature back and has done nothing to prove he would be.

[fcspikeit]

That's interesting because his 2 longest runs are 18 and 19 yards.

Please dont reference Walter Payton when discussing Hillis.

As I said a hundred times...I have no problem with Hillis as a compliment getting 8-10 carries and a few receptions. but he is NOT a feature back and has done nothing to prove he would be.

No one we could draft has proven they could be a feature back in this league. In fact, Hillis has shown more then anyone we could draft because he done it for 3 games.

I think we should bring someone in. Give the best guy on our roster the Starting job and let the other guy spell him for 8 - 12 carries. Either way, Hillis should get his shot at being the starter. If nothing else he has earned that...

My bet is that at the end of the year, Hillis will have a better Yard per Carry average. look at his #'s. They place him among the best backs in the league..

If the other guy can outplay him then great, so be it. If not, Hillis should be our starting TB.

[Dean]

That's interesting because his 2 longest runs are 18 and 19 yards.

Please dont reference Walter Payton when discussing Hillis.

As I said a hundred times...I have no problem with Hillis as a compliment getting 8-10 carries and a few receptions. but he is NOT a feature back and has done nothing to prove he would be.


Sorry I included, inadvertently, his 2-20 yard and a 40 yard reception in with those. However, the point is still that he can pick up chunks of yards. His rushing average is 5.0 yards per carry and his receiving average is 12.8 Yd/catch.

Walter was referenced as a great back but without the fantastic break away speed that you indicated you want in our backfield next year. I am simply pointing out that several exceptional backs have excelled without it.

Can Hillis? I don't know but he has earned the right to show what he's got.

P.S. I thought this was an interesting (at least to me) stat 35.3% of carries by Hillis resulted in first downs.

[dogfish]

PEYTON HILLIS IS A FULLBACK...NOT A 25 CARRY TAILBACK.

Please raise your hand if you understand the difference.


why, because he's 250 and can't run a 4.4? i suppose it realy depends on what you want from your running game, but i certainly don't see any reason that he isn't capable of carrying the ball 25 times per game-- i suppose it remains to be seen whether he could carry a full load without wearing down, but he's a tough hoss, and doesn't have a history of being fragile like selvin and torain. . .

in the past, i've been a big proponent of the train of thought that says we need a speed back that can consistently rip off big chunks of yardage. . . but in the past, we had rag-armed QBs and shit receivers besides an aging rod smith-- other than the occasional bomb off play-action, we weren't capable of generating explosive plays in the passing game, and i thought we needed the running game to compensate. . .

now, however, it's a different story-- we've got a legitimate pocket passer, a pair of very talented wideouts that can get vertical and make things happen running in the open field after the catch on the underneath stuff, and an athletic tight end that can attack the seams. . . we now have a passing game that can strike quickly and put up a lot of points when it gets rolling, and with more experience for the young guys and the threat of a running game they'll be even more deadly. . .

IMO, what we need from our running game isn't quite the same as what we needed three years ago, when it was required to be the focal point of our offense and put most of our points on the board. . . not that i wouldn't love to have a super-dominant, every-play breakaway threat like peterson (who wouldn't??), but i think we can be an elite offense without that true superstar back-- gimme two solid ones, that's fine-- as long as it's not more of "shanny's scrubs" like selvin and mike bell. . . .

i'll be perfectly happy with a running game that can consistently churn out positive yardage, help move the chains and wear down opposing defenses-- having tennessee's running game would be sweet, but we can win with less because we're actually capable of throwing the ball as more than a gimmick. . . if we have enough to take some pressure off of both our passing game and our leaky defense, it's enough to make us dangerous, and i believe hillis can provide that with his tough straight-ahead running. . .

of course i'm sure not going to complain if we do add an elite back, but IMO it's more of a luxury than a necessity. . . i don't think there's any question that we need a second quality back, for depth if nothing else, but as far as i'm concered it doesn't absolutely have to be a guy with big-play speed and 25-carry potential-- that would be a bonus, but i'd be fine with adding another between the tackles pounder type, and maybe giving an inexpensive guy like alridge a shot to be the third back and provide the occasional big play threat. . .

personally, i loved how our offense looked with hillis as the featured back-- i think putting up early points with the passing game and then turing a 250 pounder loose to run downhill and deal out punishment is a great formula for success, especially if we could ever build a defense that could stop anyone. . . anyways, JMO. . .

*shrugs*



regardless of what we want, i suspect that we won't spend a high pick on a back-- shenanigans is in love with torain, his latest late-round "gem". . . i bet mike's already planning on him coming back strong and being "the guy" next year-- and if that is the case, i'm glad hillis will be around to step in when torain breaks again. . .

[gobroncsnv]

I've said before, with our blocking AS IT NOW STANDS, we are better off with someone who doesn't need a hole completely clear, a guy who can make his own daylight, and doesn't go down when within 3 feet of a tackler. We have an oline that is FABULOUS at protection, so so on making holes consistently. Hillis fits that role beautifully, with regard to our present blocking structure.