Broncos QB Orton still No. 1 but starts to feel the heat

[TXBRONC]

Broncos QB Orton still No. 1 but starts to feel the heat
By Lindsay H. Jones
The Denver Post
Posted: 10/06/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT

"He has the support of the coach, the offensive coordinator, all the assistant coaches, so internally, I don't see this being a make-or-break game," receiver Brandon Lloyd said. "Obviously it's the biggest game, with it being a division game, and where we are record-wise."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19051294

Is it just me or does this quote seem a bit odd. Obviously the coaching staff is behind Orton enough to continue running him out there as the starter. In other situation like Orton's teammate have said "We're behind our quarterback" or something like it. To be fair there was another quote in the article where Lloyd said that the other offensive players have to be better around him.

[BroncoJoe]

From a different article at the Post:


"Focus," Broncos coach John Fox said. "I've got to do everything in my power to get this right. For me, if it ain't working, I'm not one to do the same old stuff."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos

[BigDaddyBronco]

From a different article at the Post:



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos

:mad: :frusty:

[The Glue Factory]

From a different article at the Post:

"Focus," Broncos coach John Fox said. "I've got to do everything in my power to get this right. For me, if it ain't working, I'm not one to do the same old stuff."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos (emphasis mine)

Really coach? Your history tells us a different story. Still I pray at night that you are telling us the truth this time, but during the day I doubt the sincerity of your words.

[SOCALORADO.]

Folks, Orton aint goin anywhere.
But the desperation to try to find some tiny piece of evidence towards your desperate desire of him being benched is funny.
Truly as a fan base, we are pathetic.

And as i've said a billion times, Orton sucks!
Terrible QB.

Next week, it will be a bye week conspiracy about how theres a big fiasco goin on at Dove Valley and all kinds of rumors will swirl from fantasy land, and TT will be rumored on all the interwebs to start against MIA! Cause you know, hes from florida!

3-13 folks. Maybe even worse.

[LRtagger]

I thought I read somewhere during the offseason that they are doing a Florida Gators tribute at the game in Miami....let me see if I can find it.

[LRtagger]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/dolphins/commentary-miami-dolphins-resorting-to-stunts-like-gator-1804501.html

Would be a good game for him to start lol

[jhildebrand]

Kyle Orton said something along the lines of I have played well. We have played well. But we and I certainly have to limit my mistakes.

No urgency. No concern. He sees himself having played well just like he did last year when he won a whopping 3 games :rolleyes:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Kyle Orton said something along the lines of I have played well. We have played well. But we and I certainly have to limit my mistakes.

No urgency. No concern. He sees himself having played well just like he did last year when he won a whopping 3 games :rolleyes:

I never hope for a loss, but I hope Orton throws about 1,000,000 interceptions this week and gets replaced during the bye week. I've never disliked a Broncos' QB as much as Orton. I'd rather have Griese back than see orton take another snap...

I'm not kidding.

[jhildebrand]

Remember the SD game at Invesco about 4 years ago? :confused: The one where it was 3/4 empty by the start of the second half? I do. I was there.

It will take that kind of game to ensure any kind of change! I am right there with you TX :salute: If it is ok to Suck for Luck around here then it should also be ok to suck for Tebow in the meantime!

[camdisco24]

I never hope for a loss, but I hope Orton throws about 1,000,000 interceptions this week and gets replaced during the bye week. I've never disliked a Broncos' QB as much as Orton. I'd rather have Griese back than see orton take another snap...

I'm not kidding.

I love the Broncos so much that I actually want Orton to do terrible this week as well. I think most people understand where we're coming from Horsepower.

A Orton-less Broncos is a step to the future.

[TXBRONC]

From a different article at the Post:



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos

Yeah that very quote was mentioned on Migh High Sports about 20 minutes ago. It's not accurate to say the least.

[TXBRONC]

I never hope for a loss, but I hope Orton throws about 1,000,000 interceptions this week and gets replaced during the bye week. I've never disliked a Broncos' QB as much as Orton. I'd rather have Griese back than see orton take another snap...

I'm not kidding.

If we lose then the bye week is the perfect time to make a change because it would give the new starter two weeks to prepare. I think it's possible but I think it's just as likely that Orton would still be starter going into Miami.

Having said that I just don't see Orton getting to quarterback the team all the way end of the season if Denver loses.

[rationalfan]

(emphasis mine)

Really coach? Your history tells us a different story. Still I pray at night that you are telling us the truth this time, but during the day I doubt the sincerity of your words.

actually, when you look at fox's history in carolina he's made several QB switches midseason (from memory, excuse me if these are inaccurate: peete to weinke; weinke to delhomme; delhomme to moore; moore to clausen; etc.)

obviously, fox doesn't see anybody on the roster he thinks is better than orton; at least not right now.

is he right? i don't know. but he thinks he is.

[Bullgator]

Folks, Orton aint goin anywhere.
But the desperation to try to find some tiny piece of evidence towards your desperate desire of him being benched is funny.
Truly as a fan base, we are pathetic.

And as i've said a billion times, Orton sucks!
Terrible QB.

Next week, it will be a bye week conspiracy about how theres a big fiasco goin on at Dove Valley and all kinds of rumors will swirl from fantasy land, and TT will be rumored on all the interwebs to start against MIA! Cause you know, hes from florida!

3-13 folks. Maybe even worse.

its not the fan base that's pathetic.... the only thing worse than listening to the fan base is not listening to the fan base and being proven a schmuck and that's whats happening to Fux™ as we speak.

[Nomad]

I never hope for a loss, but I hope Orton throws about 1,000,000 interceptions this week and gets replaced during the bye week. I've never disliked a Broncos' QB as much as Orton. I'd rather have Griese back than see orton take another snap...

I'm not kidding.

BRONCOS are gonna win to spite you:lol::elefant: but Orton will still play the same, Chargers will be that bad......he'll have a win though and Fox will give the fans a big eff you:D.


SOCAL......wanting to 'suck for Luck' is pathetic as well. That means you want the BRONCOS to lose. Step off the soapbox and let the folks show their displeasure of a medicore to pathetic QB in Orton who has proven not to succeed in the NFL.

[BroncoJoe]

Folks, Orton aint goin anywhere.
But the desperation to try to find some tiny piece of evidence towards your desperate desire of him being benched is funny.
Truly as a fan base, we are pathetic.

And as i've said a billion times, Orton sucks!
Terrible QB.

Next week, it will be a bye week conspiracy about how theres a big fiasco goin on at Dove Valley and all kinds of rumors will swirl from fantasy land, and TT will be rumored on all the interwebs to start against MIA! Cause you know, hes from florida!

3-13 folks. Maybe even worse.

Sorry - I have yet to meet a "pathetic" fan. I'm a Broncos fan through and through, regardless of who is at quarterback. Can we be disgruntled? Yes. Would we like to see a change? Some of us yes.

Pathetic is putting your hopes in a college player where there is zero guarantee he'll even be a Broncos player, let alone a great NFL player.

[Ravage!!!]

Pathetic is putting your hopes in a college player where there is zero guarantee he'll even be a Broncos player, let alone a great NFL player.

Thats not pathetic,its just a healthy dose of humor in the form of desperation. Luck would be fantastic for this franchise... period. But not one is going to intentionally "suck" to draft him (although I wish we would).

Its no different than faith. Zero proof, no guarantees of reward, but you just have faith it will.

[TXBRONC]

actually, when you look at fox's history in carolina he's made several QB switches midseason (from memory, excuse me if these are inaccurate: peete to weinke; weinke to delhomme; delhomme to moore; moore to clausen; etc.)

obviously, fox doesn't see anybody on the roster he thinks is better than orton; at least not right now.

is he right? i don't know. but he thinks he is.

It's the reverse. Weinke to Peete, Peete to Delhomme, Delhomme to Moore although Josh McCown also played in one game in '09, and then Moore to Clausen.

I don't know if it's the case or not that he doesn't think he has better option. I think what it shows that he prefers to go to a veteran over a younger younger/veteran quarterback. Going from Weinke to Peete was going from a veteran to a veteran. In Peete to Delhomme I pretty sure Delhomme was the starter all year but Peete went into camp as the starter. In Delhomme to Moore I remember he stuck Delhomme for more than half the season. Last year they had five quarterbacks take snaps.

[BroncoStud]

For many of us this has NOTHING to do with Tebow. It has everything to do with Orton. We want change. 3 years of the same old shit isn't working. Orton sucks. Put in someone else, doesn't matter who it is. This isn't practice or 7 on 7 drills, get in someone who will make plays.

[camdisco24]

For many of us this has NOTHING to do with Tebow. It has everything to do with Orton. We want change. 3 years of the same old shit isn't working. Orton sucks. Put in someone else, doesn't matter who it is. This isn't practice or 7 on 7 drills, get in someone who will make plays.

Exactly. 100% agree. :salute:

[MOtorboat]

Is it just me or does this quote seem a bit odd. Obviously the coaching staff is behind Orton enough to continue running him out there as the starter. In other situation like Orton's teammate have said "We're behind our quarterback" or something like it. To be fair there was another quote in the article where Lloyd said that the other offensive players have to be better around him.

Your answer probably lies in the question he was asked.

I would imagine it was something along the lines of "Is Orton losing any support?" or something like that.

I hope he's feeling pressure from someone, his performance has been poor, and its my hope that someone is pushing for the job, because that would be a good sign from the other two quarterbacks as well.

[Slick]

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Slick]

Well that was an insightful post.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Juriga72]

WHY do I picture Fox as a small kid going..."THIS time when I stick the fork in the electrical socket.... it won't shock me...."

[SOCALORADO.]

BRONCOS are gonna win to spite you:lol::elefant: but Orton will still play the same, Chargers will be that bad......he'll have a win though and Fox will give the fans a big eff you:D.


SOCAL......wanting to 'suck for Luck' is pathetic as well. That means you want the BRONCOS to lose. Step off the soapbox and let the folks show their displeasure of a medicore to pathetic QB in Orton who has proven not to succeed in the NFL.


I think the folks should realize the displeasure that the new FO has in ALL of their current QBs. They dont need a soapbox though.
Their actions speak for themselves....they are Sucking4Lucky.
And who doesnt already know the displeasure of the fans!!?!?
What? Elway woke up today, and read this and thought,
"Hey! WTF!?!? The fans DONT like Orton!?!? Really!?!? Those ********!!! Screw them! Screw them all!!!"

This place is now one giant piss, bitch and moan festival.

[SOCALORADO.]

Sorry - I have yet to meet a "pathetic" fan. I'm a Broncos fan through and through, regardless of who is at quarterback. Can we be disgruntled? Yes. Would we like to see a change? Some of us yes.

Pathetic is putting your hopes in a college player like Tim Tebow where there is zero guarantee he'll even be a starting Broncos player, let alone a great NFL player.

There. :lol:

[Mike]

I think the folks should realize the displeasure that the new FO has in ALL of their current QBs. They dont need a soapbox though.
Their actions speak for themselves....they are Sucking4Lucky.
And who doesnt already know the displeasure of the fans!!?!?
What? Elway woke up today, and read this and thought,
"Hey! WTF!?!? The fans DONT like Orton!?!? Really!?!? Those ********!!! Screw them! Screw them all!!!"

This place is now one giant piss, bitch and moan festival.

A team that has won however many of the last however many (honestly I can't remember anymore) with a heartless/passionless/idiot of a bum at QB, is not happy with things and voice their displeasure....who'd of thunk it? :rolleyes:

Nothing says that your take on this situation is correct, btw. We alll have our opinion and none of us knows what's going on. Only diffference is we aren't superfans so we just suck.

[Krugan]

Guess being not upset that this team sucks, is the best route to go then?

Boggled by the idea that we should be happy go lucky while we suck...

[TXBRONC]

A team that has won however many of the last however many (honestly I can't remember anymore) with a heartless/passionless/idiot of a bum at QB, is not happy with things and voice their displeasure....who'd of thunk it? :rolleyes:

Nothing says that your take on this situation is correct, btw. We all have our opinion and none of us knows what's going on. Only difference is we aren't superfans so we just suck.

I'm of the mindset that Elway and Fox understand that they can't go something like1-15 without at least attempting to make corrections. Fox has made switches at quarterback several times and he's done with plenty time for the other quarterbacks to get significant playing time.

[SOCALORADO.]

A team that has won however many of the last however many (honestly I can't remember anymore) with a heartless/passionless/idiot of a bum at QB, is not happy with things and voice their displeasure....who'd of thunk it? :rolleyes:

Nothing says that your take on this situation is correct, btw. We alll have our opinion and none of us knows what's going on. Only diffference is we aren't superfans so we just suck.

And everyone knows your opinion.
Including the FO, the chinese, the martians on Mars and the underwater sea creatures. Everyone gets the displeasure with the current Denver starting QB. The bitching has been going on for quite some time.
And whats happened? Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
The FO doesnt seem to care what the fans opinion is on this matter.
Theres a reason TT is the 3rd string QB.
Just waiting for the conspiracy loons to explain that TT is really the 2nd stringer, and its all a lie to confuse the masses, and create conflict amongst the ranks.
Yeah, thats it.

[Northman]

Remember the SD game at Invesco about 4 years ago? :confused: The one where it was 3/4 empty by the start of the second half? I do. I was there.

It will take that kind of game to ensure any kind of change! I am right there with you TX :salute: If it is ok to Suck for Luck around here then it should also be ok to suck for Tebow in the meantime!


I remember seeing the stands during that game. The embarrassement of this team just continues to grow.

[Northman]

actually, when you look at fox's history in carolina he's made several QB switches midseason (from memory, excuse me if these are inaccurate: peete to weinke; weinke to delhomme; delhomme to moore; moore to clausen; etc.)

obviously, fox doesn't see anybody on the roster he thinks is better than orton; at least not right now.

is he right? i don't know. but he thinks he is.

With a 79-77 w/l record that doesnt give me much comfort right now.

[Mike]

I remember seeing the stands during that game. The embarrassement of this team just continues to grow.

I was at that game and remember it well...but I am not a superfan so I can't talk about it. Sorry.

[Northman]

I think the folks should realize the displeasure that the new FO has in ALL of their current QBs. They dont need a soapbox though.
Their actions speak for themselves....they are Sucking4Lucky.
And who doesnt already know the displeasure of the fans!!?!?
What? Elway woke up today, and read this and thought,
"Hey! WTF!?!? The fans DONT like Orton!?!? Really!?!? Those ********!!! Screw them! Screw them all!!!"

This place is now one giant piss, bitch and moan festival.

Bye.

[Northman]

I was at that game and remember it well...but I am not a superfan so I can't talk about it. Sorry.

I guess not. You have to step up your ability to whine about whiners Mike. Dont you know?

[BroncoStud]

Actually it might do Elway some good to check the forum every now and then.

[BroncoStud]

And everyone knows your opinion.
Including the FO, the chinese, the martians on Mars and the underwater sea creatures. Everyone gets the displeasure with the current Denver starting QB. The bitching has been going on for quite some time.
And whats happened? Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
The FO doesnt seem to care what the fans opinion is on this matter.
Theres a reason TT is the 3rd string QB.
Just waiting for the conspiracy loons to explain that TT is really the 2nd stringer, and its all a lie to confuse the masses, and create conflict amongst the ranks.
Yeah, thats it.

Eric Decker was backing up Eddie Royal until Eddie got hurt and Decker had a chance to play. I guess Eddie is the better player, right? It's amazing how short-sighted an ignorant some of the viewpoints can be...

Were Tebow and Quinn going to beat out a 7 year vet who knew the system better than either of them? I mean, really? Also, would we even be discussing Orton is Elway had been able to find a team that actually wanted him?

The trade goes through you are most likely watching Tebow/Quinn right now and laughing as Orton implodes in Miami. But McDaniels and Xanders gave Orton such a ridiculous contract he wasn't movable.

Calling Tebow 3rd string is absurd. I assure you that when Orton is pulled it will be Tebow that trots onto the field, not Quinn. There is no conspiracy, Orton is playing himself out of the job so Fox can keep the lockerroom. It's that simple. Many of us said this very same thing Preseason.

[Nomad]

I think the folks should realize the displeasure that the new FO has in ALL of their current QBs. They dont need a soapbox though.
Their actions speak for themselves....they are Sucking4Lucky.
And who doesnt already know the displeasure of the fans!!?!?
What? Elway woke up today, and read this and thought,
"Hey! WTF!?!? The fans DONT like Orton!?!? Really!?!? Those ********!!! Screw them! Screw them all!!!"

This place is now one giant piss, bitch and moan festival.

With this said, we're back to square one? You want to suck for Luck and we want to see what Tebow can do in live games because our 7 yr starting QB sucks. I don't see where the problem is. For a guy like you who had Tebow pictures everywhere before that draft, you sure do jump ship quick. Yeah, the bitching is excessive for a bunch of grown men, I get that, but I find it just as childish to want your team to lose for a certain player because people are daydreaming of what could be there.

[Northman]

With this said, we're back to square one? You want to suck for Luck and we want to see what Tebow can do in live games because our 7 yr starting QB sucks. I don't see where the problem is. For a guy like you who had Tebow pictures everywhere before that draft, you sure do jump ship quick. Yeah, the bitching is excessive for a bunch of grown men, I get that, but I find it just as childish to want your team to lose for a certain player because people are daydreaming of what could be there.


SoCal is like Lex 2.0. Only living for the draft. I doubt he really cares about the Broncos that much.

[rationalfan]

Guess being not upset that this team sucks, is the best route to go then?

Boggled by the idea that we should be happy go lucky while we suck...

fans should be upset. but, in my opinion, too many are being overly dramatic about everything; especially the orton debate.

but that's a result of the internet: every immediate opinion/feeling/perspective is shared in real time. if only we would filter ourselves a little. if only.

[BeefStew25]

fans should be upset. but, in my opinion, too many are being overly dramatic about everything; especially the orton debate.

but that's a result of the internet: every immediate opinion/feeling/perspective is shared in real time. if only we would filter ourselves a little. if only.

You have been on spot lately Rash.

[Nomad]

SoCal is like Lex 2.0. Only living for the draft. I doubt he really cares about the Broncos that much.

Seriously, I don't get the mindset. I could understand if these guys wanted to win and they believe Orton gives the BRONCOS the best shot. But that's not the case, the same ones here against seeing Tebow on the field are the same ones wanting to suck for Luck. ****, if Tebow sucks that bad they should welcome the thought. I don't buy the practice bullshit or lockerroom crap they spew because their whole goal is to get Luck. This suck for Luck crowd is double faced and talk out of both sides of their mouths. Humor for desperation:rolleyes:......you try everything who have in desperate times regardless if you think it'll work or not especially when what you have isn't working.

I want to win and Orton has proven he's not the guy. I don't know if Tebow is the guy but I'd like to see in live games.

[TXBRONC]

With this said, we're back to square one? You want to suck for Luck and we want to see what Tebow can do in live games because our 7 yr starting QB sucks. I don't see where the problem is. For a guy like you who had Tebow pictures everywhere before that draft, you sure do jump ship quick. Yeah, the bitching is excessive for a bunch of grown men, I get that, but I find it just as childish to want your team to lose for a certain player because people are daydreaming of what could be there.

It's seems to me the majority of fans calling for Tebow to get in not because they're sure he's the answer but they would like to find out.

Some people try act like they exactly what the front office and what the head coach is going to do and they simiply don't. Fox has replaced a starting quarterback more than once so his history indicates he will do it if it needs to be done. It's also silly to think that Elway doesn't care to win games just so have a chance to draft Andrew Luck.

[SOCALORADO.]

Eric Decker was backing up Eddie Royal until Eddie got hurt and Decker had a chance to play. I guess Eddie is the better player, right? It's amazing how short-sighted an ignorant some of the viewpoints can be...

Were Tebow and Quinn going to beat out a 7 year vet who knew the system better than either of them? I mean, really? Also, would we even be discussing Orton is Elway had been able to find a team that actually wanted him?

The trade goes through you are most likely watching Tebow/Quinn right now and laughing as Orton implodes in Miami. But McDaniels and Xanders gave Orton such a ridiculous contract he wasn't movable.

Calling Tebow 3rd string is absurd. I assure you that when Orton is pulled it will be Tebow that trots onto the field, not Quinn. There is no conspiracy, Orton is playing himself out of the job so Fox can keep the lockerroom. It's that simple. Many of us said this very same thing Preseason.

Hows that? He would just be the 2nd string QB if thats what the FO wanted to do.
Calling TT anything BUT the 3rd string QB is absurd.
Oh wait, but now were entering into the conspiracy part of the story! :lol:

[Northman]

Seriously, I don't get the mindset. I could understand if these guys wanted to win and they believe Orton gives the BRONCOS the best shot. But that's not the case, the same ones here against seeing Tebow on the field are the same ones wanting to suck for Luck. ****, if Tebow sucks that bad they should welcome the thought. I don't buy the practice bullshit or lockerroom crap they spew because their whole goal is to get Luck. This suck for Luck crowd is double faced and talk out of both sides of their mouths. Humor for desperation:rolleyes:......you try everything who have in desperate times regardless if you think it'll work or not especially when what you have isn't working.

I want to win and Orton has proven he's not the guy. I don't know if Tebow is the guy but I'd like to see in live games.


Well, the other thing is those certain someone's dont really UNDERSTAND why we wont to see someone else see the field instead of Orton. It has nothing to do with Tebow being great or not.

[Northman]

fans should be upset. but, in my opinion, too many are being overly dramatic about everything; especially the orton debate.

but that's a result of the internet: every immediate opinion/feeling/perspective is shared in real time. if only we would filter ourselves a little. if only.

When are you going to filter yourself?

[SOCALORADO.]

With this said, we're back to square one? You want to suck for Luck and we want to see what Tebow can do in live games because our 7 yr starting QB sucks. I don't see where the problem is. For a guy like you who had Tebow pictures everywhere before that draft, you sure do jump ship quick. Yeah, the bitching is excessive for a bunch of grown men, I get that, but I find it just as childish to want your team to lose for a certain player because people are daydreaming of what could be there.

I didnt jump ship quick. I saw him in the last 3 games last season. And i read every camp report and every analyst/reporter that was there, including fans who were there, and unanimously they all said he is no where near ready to even be remotely considered as the starting QB.
Thats when you gotta realize that not only was Josh McDaniels a moron of a HC, but he also couldnt draft players to save his life.

[slim]

I didnt jump ship quick. I saw him in the last 3 games last season. And i read every camp report and every analyst/reporter that was there, including fans who were there, and unanimously they all said he is no where near ready to even be remotely considered as the starting QB.
Thats when you gotta realize that not only was Josh McDaniels a moron of a HC, but he also couldnt draft players to save his life.

It took you until training camp this year to determine that McD couldn't draft?

:welcome:

[Northman]

It took you until training camp this year to determine that McD couldn't draft?

:welcome:

Some are slower than others.

[Canmore]

It's seems to me the majority of fans calling for Tebow to get in not because they're sure he's the answer but they would like to find out.

Some people try act like they exactly what the front office and what the head coach is going to do and they simiply don't. Fox has replaced a starting quarterback more than once so his history indicates he will do it if it needs to be done. It's also silly to think that Elway doesn't care to win games just so have a chance to draft Andrew Luck.

I don't have a clue what Elway and Fox are thinking, I wish I did. Right now we are a bad football team with a quarterback that is a stopgap until we find a real one. I would like to see a change. Orton just can't get it done when the chips are down. We may not intentionally suck for Luck, but the product being trotted out on Sunday sure looks like it.

[jhildebrand]

Luck would be fantastic for this franchise... period. .

Ryan Leaf was going to be fantastic for a franchise...period.

[SOCALORADO.]

SoCal is like Lex 2.0. Only living for the draft. I doubt he really cares about the Broncos that much.

This is how much i care!
http://collegefootballpundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Luck.jpg

[Northman]

Ryan Leaf was going to be fantastic for a franchise...period.

JaMarcus Russell is better than Elway, remember that.

[SOCALORADO.]

It took you until training camp this year to determine that McD couldn't draft?

:welcome:

And your still sucking his player off!
At least i realized it with all the sane folks.

[Northman]

This is how much i care!


Got to live in the now bro!

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Tim+Tebow+Denver+Broncos+v+Oakland+Raiders+661902l 0nmal.jpg

[slim]

And your still sucking his player off!
At least i realized it with all the sane folks.

I have never said TT was the answer, only that Orton isn't.

[jhildebrand]

I was at that game and remember it well...but I am not a superfan so I can't talk about it. Sorry.


I guess not. You have to step up your ability to whine about whiners Mike. Dont you know?

Was this a shot at me? :confused:

[Northman]

Was this a shot at me? :confused:

No.

[Northman]

Just so SoCal doesnt think im being a Teboner.

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Brady+Quinn+Denver+Broncos+v+Cincinnati+Bengals+hY yKcBBTNxfl.jpg

[SOCALORADO.]

I have never said TT was the answer, only that Orton isn't.

And i am saying that NONE of them are the answer.
And so far, the FO agrees. Thats the point i always try to make.
WHY is the FO doing what they are doing?
No one ever gives their actual opinion on this. They just make up hypotheticals.

I figure by week 12 this place will be like Thunderdome.
Tebow and Orton will be pushed into the Thunderome as you all chant,
"2 men enter, one man leaves!"

[slim]

And i am saying that NONE of them are the answer.
And so far, the FO agrees.
I figure by week 12 this place will be like Thunderdome.

Tebow and Orton will be pushed into the Thunderome as you all chant,
"2 men enter, one man leaves!"

You may be right, but there is only one way to truly find out.

I think we both know TT will play and some point this year. Let's just get on with it.

[SOCALORADO.]

You may be right, but there is only one way to truly find out.

I think we both know TT will play and some point this year. Let's just get on with it.

When? Give me your projection of which week TT starts for DEN.

[slim]

When? Give me your projection of which week TT starts for DEN.

Week 10 or 11.

Quinn will likely get first crack (I hope around week 7) and once he fails there will only be one option left.

[SOCALORADO.]

Week 10 or 11.

Quinn will likely get first crack (I hope around week 7) and once he fails there will only be one option left.

Quinn!?!?! Blasphemy SLIM!!!! BLASPHEMY!!!:D

Week 12.

[TXBRONC]

I don't have a clue what Elway and Fox are thinking, I wish I did. Right now we are a bad football team with a quarterback that is a stopgap until we find a real one. I would like to see a change. Orton just can't get it done when the chips are down. We may not intentionally suck for Luck, but the product being trotted out on Sunday sure looks like it.

None of us knows. I try to make it clear that what I'm saying here is my opinion not a fact. I base my opinion on what I've read and what I've heard from Elway and Fox. I don't base it on things I've made up out of thin air.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Canmore]

None of us knows. I try to make it clear that what I'm saying here is my opinion not a fact. I base my opinion on what I've read and what I've heard from Elway and Fox. I don't base it on things I've made up out of thin air.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I agree with you. You're a real sensible poster and I like your opinions. They seem to me to be well grounded. Never thought you pulled opinions out of right field. Hope I didn't come across that way.

Personally I would like to see a change at the quarterback position. It's the most important position in football and we are getting very little from Kyle Orton and when it is crunch time we are getting nothing. To be a fly on the wall at Dove Valley.

[BroncoStud]

And i am saying that NONE of them are the answer.
And so far, the FO agrees. Thats the point i always try to make.
WHY is the FO doing what they are doing?
No one ever gives their actual opinion on this. They just make up hypotheticals.

I figure by week 12 this place will be like Thunderdome.
Tebow and Orton will be pushed into the Thunderome as you all chant,
"2 men enter, one man leaves!"

You don't know that. We KNOW that Orton isn't the answer. We do not know that Tebow or Quinn are not. We simply do not know - YET. That is why it is imperative that they see substantial playing time this season.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Honestly, I don't think Orton feels any "heat". He knows he sucks balls and he knows he's still making $9 million this year and won't be here next year no matter what happens. He's the only guy not feeling the heat.

Sure, he might be playing for a new contract, but he can just blame his shitty play on playing for a shitty team... just like he always does. he'll take $3 million a year to be a backup next year somewhere else to cash in big this year. Who wouldn't? He has no loyalty to the Broncos and obviously very little passion for the game of football or he'd try harder to play better.

Orton is along for the ride. Make no mistake, the boos don't bother him because he doesn't "really care what the fans think". His words.

Hence, why I hate him. I used to just hate his play, now I'm really starting not to like him as a person, too.

[SOCALORADO.]

You don't know that. We KNOW that Orton isn't the answer. We do not know that Tebow or Quinn are not. We simply do not know - YET. That is why it is imperative that they see substantial playing time this season.

You KNOW that orton isnt the answer. But your not the HC, who said recently that orton was still learning this offense, and would be given more time.:lol:
So now we KNOW your opinion according to the HC is wrong.
What i KNOW is that if Orton is still "learning" the offense and Quinn and Tebow are battling it out for "co-silver medalist, assistant to the regional quarter back, the FO doesnt give 2 shits about any of them.

[dunk7]

I'll admit, I'm a proponent of the "Suck for Luck" group HOWEVER I believe more in drafting for value. If Tebow doesn't get a fair tryout then this year should be considered a failure. The FO needs to know if this guy can be a legitimate starting QB in this league. IMHO they aren't going to find that out based on practices or a 3 game stint. He has to start playing after the bye week (if we lose to the Chargers). If he sucks, we get in line for Luck, if not Jones. If he looks like a good starting QB or shows flashes of potential, BONUS!!! We draft a DT. Simple really... ;-)

[camdisco24]

You KNOW that orton isnt the answer. But your not the HC, who said recently that orton was still learning this offense, and would be given more time.:lol:
So now we KNOW your opinion according to the HC is wrong.
What i KNOW is that if Orton is still "learning" the offense and Quinn and Tebow are battling it out for "co-silver medalist, assistant to the regional quarter back, the FO doesnt give 2 shits about any of them.

Fact of the matter is... None of us KNOW every detail about the situation. We just KNOW what we want to see when if comes to rebuilding this team. We suck. This season is not "our season". Many of us have come to this realization and we simply want to see what we're working with at the QB position.

None of us KNOW how the FO feels about Quinn and Tebow. At this point, I'm led to believe that EFX thinks we can still win the division with Orton. Which as a fan scares me because I've seen the product we've put out these first four weeks.

All we're saying is, the thought process behind playing Orton in this type on environment doesn't really make sense and it's probably one of the most frustrating things to watch week in and week out.

[Day1BroncoFan]

If we trade Tebow without giving him a chance then the FO sucks worse than Orton does.

I'm not saying Tebow or Quinn is the answer but rather that Orton is NOT the answer as has been said before.

Screw the FO, I don't know what they're doing and I'm not so sure at this point they do either.

As far as my fan status goes: If I want to bitch, moan and complain I'll do it. If you don't like what I have to say skip or put me on ignore. Orton has been a loser since he came here and I don't see that changing so why the hell not give someone a chance.

If we trade Tebow without playing him and he plays well with a different team then we look even more stupid.

[TXBRONC]

I agree with you. You're a real sensible poster and I like your opinions. They seem to me to be well grounded. Never thought you pulled opinions out of right field. Hope I didn't come across that way.

Personally I would like to see a change at the quarterback position. It's the most important position in football and we are getting very little from Kyle Orton and when it is crunch time we are getting nothing. To be a fly on the wall at Dove Valley.

Barring some dramatic turnaround I really do think Orton will get the hook at some point during the season. It could be as early as the game coming off the bye week but if I were to make a bet it will probably around the midway point of the season.

[rationalfan]

Honestly, I don't think Orton feels any "heat". He knows he sucks balls and he knows he's still making $9 million this year and won't be here next year no matter what happens. He's the only guy not feeling the heat.

Sure, he might be playing for a new contract, but he can just blame his shitty play on playing for a shitty team... just like he always does. he'll take $3 million a year to be a backup next year somewhere else to cash in big this year. Who wouldn't? He has no loyalty to the Broncos and obviously very little passion for the game of football or he'd try harder to play better.

Orton is along for the ride. Make no mistake, the boos don't bother him because he doesn't "really care what the fans think". His words.

Hence, why I hate him. I used to just hate his play, now I'm really starting not to like him as a person, too.

i get your point, and i do like it. but i have to counter with this: so, if you're in orton's position and you're making that money and the fans want you to be benched, do you say, "gee, i think the fans are right, i should step aside and let tebow or quinn play"?

really, what is he supposed to say?

don't get me wrong, i'm not an orton fanboy (in truth, i don't care who the QB of the broncos is, as long as the team wins). and i understand why he's become the fans' whipping boy. but, some of the hatred tossed at him is pretty unfair.

[Nomad]

and i understand why he's become the fans' whipping boy. but, some of the hatred tossed at him is pretty unfair.

Not really! He opened his mouth about the fans and he isn't winning games as the field general and it's been more than just this season. Orton's made his bed and being the fans whipping boy is warranted. If he's leading this team to wins then most wouldn't be in an uproar except the extreme Tebow or Luck fan bois.

[rationalfan]

Not really! He opened his mouth about the fans and he isn't winning games as the field general and it's been more than just this season. Orton's made his bed and being the fans whipping boy is warranted. If he's leading this team to wins then most wouldn't be in an uproar except the extreme Tebow or Luck fan bois.

hey, if the fans have the right to say whatever they want about a player, the player can say whatever he wants about the fans. fair play 101.

[Nomad]

hey, if the fans have the right to say whatever they want about a player, the player can say whatever he wants about the fans. fair play 101.

Players have every right to call out fans but that player especially a mediocre QB better provide positive results ie winning or become the whipping boy. So I don't whine that Orton is unfairly being targeted.

[rationalfan]

Players have every right to call out fans but that player especially a mediocre QB better provide positive results ie winning or become the whipping boy. So I don't whine that Orton is unfairly being targeted.

so does that mean a fan has to be beyond "mediocre" to call out a player? that a fan must show "positive results" after calling out a player?

this is ridiculous. remember, free speech also extends to the people you're criticizing.

[Nomad]

so does that mean a fan has to be beyond "mediocre" to call out a player? that a fan must show "positive results" after calling out a player?

this is ridiculous. remember, free speech also extends to the people you're criticizing.

Players can call out fans, fans can call out players (seems like free speech to me) but the players better produce if they are gonna call out the fans if they don't want to be a whipping boy. If the player is winning and fans still whining about him, then it's justified to call the fans whiners and unappreciative. pretty simple to comprehend.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

John Fox, re: Tebow a conference call with San Diego media: "(He’s) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time and is getting better every day. But we had an open competition. Alright? Kyle Orton was named the starter. He earned that. It wasn’t given to him. And we are one quarter into the season."

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dfndj5

[Lancane]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dfndj5

I don't care what Fox thinks about a quarterback though, I would rather have Allen's take since he's the DC, even Elway's would be more pertinent at this point. Fox has developed zero quality quarterbacks and worked with some of the shittiest that I can remember starting at this level. Allen being the DC would have better insight, he's watched Brees for years and gone against some of the better quarterbacks in this league - if Allen came out and said Tebow was going to be one hell of a quarterback and is improving day by day, then I would say that there is no way we're going to draft a quarterback and that Tebow is the future in Denver, period.

As to the rest, it will be his 'Song and Dance' till we're one and done, if not till the end of the season.

[Nomad]

I don't care what Fox thinks about a quarterback though, I would rather have Allen's take since he's the DC, even Elway's would be more pertinent at this point. Fox has developed zero quality quarterbacks and worked with some of the shittiest that I can remember starting at this level. Allen being the DC would have better insight, he's watched Brees for years and gone against some of the better quarterbacks in this league - if Allen came out and said Tebow was going to be one hell of a quarterback and is improving day by day, then I would say that there is no way we're going to draft a quarterback and that Tebow is the future in Denver, period.

As to the rest, it will be his 'Song and Dance' till we're one and done, if not till the end of the season.

Good take, Cane! Fox talks out of both sides of his mouth and many fans here echo it and the guy's track record isn't anything to boast over! Produce wins on the field or his credibility is lost with each game.

[Ravage!!!]

Of course Fox is saying positive things about Tebow. There is no need to not say positive things. What would be the gain in that? He's saying that Tebow will be "one hell of a QB someday." Thats the same thing we hear from every coach since growing up in middle school. Can you imagine the shit storm if Fox said something else? It's politics, and its a political nightmare that Fox didn't ask for, but one he has to deal with. So yeah, I expect him to say things that would keep the attacks off his ass for now.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

i get your point, and i do like it. but i have to counter with this: so, if you're in orton's position and you're making that money and the fans want you to be benched, do you say, "gee, i think the fans are right, i should step aside and let tebow or quinn play"?

really, what is he supposed to say?

don't get me wrong, i'm not an orton fanboy (in truth, i don't care who the QB of the broncos is, as long as the team wins). and i understand why he's become the fans' whipping boy. but, some of the hatred tossed at him is pretty unfair.

I'm not saying he should just step aside. What I'm saying is he doesn't care. He doesn't care about the Broncos organization or the fans. He doesn't play well enough and in three years hasn't tried to correct the glaring weaknesses he's displayed. He knows it and we know it.

His poor play has now been compounded by his lackluster attitude. He's playing for himself right now and the worst case scenario (for him) is that he eventually loses his starting job (but not his starting money) to Tebow or Quinn. He knows he's not in our long-term plans. He knows he's not getting an extension here.

It's frustrating to see a professional athlete who is making $9 million dollars this year become a "clock-puncher". Orton is playing like a clock-puncher. He's playing like a government employee who has finally come to the realization that "they may not like me, but they can't fire me so I can do as bad a job as I want". That's the perception. Until he shows otherwise, I won't believe he is, or can be, anything more than he's shown in Chicago or here.

[Lancane]

Of course Fox is saying positive things about Tebow. There is no need to not say positive things. What would be the gain in that? He's saying that Tebow will be "one hell of a QB someday." Thats the same thing we hear from every coach since growing up in middle school. Can you imagine the shit storm if Fox said something else? It's politics, and its a political nightmare that Fox didn't ask for, but one he has to deal with. So yeah, I expect him to say things that would keep the attacks off his ass for now.

He's keeping the attacks off his ass for now, but the countdown clock is speeding up and if not careful the clock's hands are gonna leave a permanent imprint on his backside! He's not seen in the most favorable light being that he's long been considered mediocre as a head coach, and while a good percentage of the fans are supporting him, that can quickly change...especially when you seen the astonishing numbers of those in the fan base who do not support Orton, the more losses and the more that Fox sticks to his guns, the more the political song and dance will not work in sustaining the ire from spreading onto him. McDaniels did one thing that will take the longest to overcome, it caused a major distrust of the fans and the decisions the organization makes, Elway coming on as VP of Football Operations has lightened it somewhat, but it's still there and ready to blow...especially if we keep going down the path as we are.

[chazoe60]

The "open competition" lie is bullshit and frankly I'm ******* sick of having my intelligence questioned by Fox every time he says it.

Take your bullshit fake ass open competition and shove it up your ass Fox. Quit lying and tell it like it is. Tebow looked like shit in practice and we knew immediately we would have to go with the loser.

What kind of open competition has one guy take 100% of the snaps with the first teamers?

[jhildebrand]

The "open competition" lie is bullshit and frankly I'm ******* sick of having my intelligence questioned by Fox every time he says it.

What kind of open competition has one guy take 100% of the snaps with the first teamers?

We see eye to eye on this chaz. :cool:



Tebow looked like shit in practice and we knew immediately we would have to go with the loser.

Not sure I agree with this.

I genuinely believe Fox and possibly Elway truly believed putting Tebow in against Dallas' #1's was thinking he would TANK and they could essentially flip the fans off and tell you "I told you so."

When TT went in in that game, I genuinely believed it really was an open competition. Orton had just audibled out of a run in the endzone and threw a terrible fade to lloyd in the end zone. Fox yanked him right after that. I thought Fox was pulling him for not sticking to the script.

Orton was 2-6 and looked terrible.

TT came in and, probably to the john's surprise and chagrin, played well. The next week against Buffalo he wasn't given extra time based on his performace in fact, I think they were too scared to play him! Yet some how Quinn earned more time with different reps based on garbage time against the 3's.

If that doesn't convince a person it wasn't an open and true competition than they are simply sticking their head in the sand.

I have yet to hear one person logically and rationally come close to justifying or demonstrating it was an open competition.

So, in the mean time for many around here TT still needs to "earn the job" that was given to Orton. But it will be ok with those same people when it is handed to Luck/Jones should the team land them.

/:rant:

[TXBRONC]

We see eye to eye on this chaz. :cool:



Not sure I agree with this.

I genuinely believe Fox and possibly Elway truly believed putting Tebow in against Dallas' #1's was thinking he would TANK and they could essentially flip the fans off and tell you "I told you so."

When TT went in in that game, I genuinely believed it really was an open competition. Orton had just audibled out of a run in the endzone and threw a terrible fade to lloyd in the end zone. Fox yanked him right after that. I thought Fox was pulling him for not sticking to the script.

Orton was 2-6 and looked terrible.

TT came in and, probably to the john's surprise and chagrin, played well. The next week against Buffalo he wasn't given extra time based on his performace in fact, I think they were too scared to play him! Yet some how Quinn earned more time with different reps based on garbage time against the 3's.

If that doesn't convince a person it wasn't an open and true competition than they are simply sticking their head in the sand.

I have yet to hear one person logically and rationally come close to justifying or demonstrating it was an open competition.

So, in the mean time for many around here TT still needs to "earn the job" that was given to Orton. But it will be ok with those same people when it is handed to Luck/Jones should the team land them.

/:rant:

At this point I don't know if it really matters if the competition truly open or not because Orton is playing himself out of a job. I think Tebow is going to get chance it's just a matter of when.

[chazoe60]

We see eye to eye on this chaz. :cool:



Not sure I agree with this.

I genuinely believe Fox and possibly Elway truly believed putting Tebow in against Dallas' #1's was thinking he would TANK and they could essentially flip the fans off and tell you "I told you so."

When TT went in in that game, I genuinely believed it really was an open competition. Orton had just audibled out of a run in the endzone and threw a terrible fade to lloyd in the end zone. Fox yanked him right after that. I thought Fox was pulling him for not sticking to the script.

Orton was 2-6 and looked terrible.

TT came in and, probably to the john's surprise and chagrin, played well. The next week against Buffalo he wasn't given extra time based on his performace in fact, I think they were too scared to play him! Yet some how Quinn earned more time with different reps based on garbage time against the 3's.

If that doesn't convince a person it wasn't an open and true competition than they are simply sticking their head in the sand.

I have yet to hear one person logically and rationally come close to justifying or demonstrating it was an open competition.

So, in the mean time for many around here TT still needs to "earn the job" that was given to Orton. But it will be ok with those same people when it is handed to Luck/Jones should the team land them.

/:rant:



When I wrote "Tebow looked like shit in practice and we knew immediately we would have to go with the loser." I meant to put that in quotes as if that is what I wish Fox would say if that is the truth. Obviously he would never say that, but the open competition lie is just getting so maddening to hear. I kinda flipped out, it's what I do.

[jhildebrand]

When I wrote "Tebow looked like shit in practice and we knew immediately we would have to go with the loser." I meant to put that in quotes as if that is what I wish Fox would say if that is the truth. Obviously he would never say that, but the open competition lie is just getting so maddening to hear. I kinda flipped out, it's what I do.

Gotcha. I am the same way.

Nothing is more insulting then this theory of a competition.

If you listen carefully to Fox's statements to the San Diego media he also says "nothing was handed to him."

I found that to be quite peculiar because to my knowledge I have yet to hear ANY media person question the competition nor state it was handed to Orton. The only places people have insisted Orton was handed the job is on the forums/interwebs.

[Juriga72]

Gotcha. I am the same way.

Nothing is more insulting then this theory of a competition.

If you listen carefully to Fox's statements to the San Diego media he also says "nothing was handed to him."

I found that to be quite peculiar because to my knowledge I have yet to hear ANY media person question the competition nor state it was handed to Orton. The only places people have insisted Orton was handed the job is on the forums/interwebs.

Um... Care to explain WHY Fox on the day he was introduced stated "Kyle Orton is our starting QB" then?

IF you name your starting QB without ANY practice to see... that would define the word "Handed" .....

[jlarsiii]

Gotcha. I am the same way.

Nothing is more insulting then this theory of a competition.

If you listen carefully to Fox's statements to the San Diego media he also says "nothing was handed to him."

I found that to be quite peculiar because to my knowledge I have yet to hear ANY media person question the competition nor state it was handed to Orton. The only places people have insisted Orton was handed the job is on the forums/interwebs.

Out of curiosity why do you find it insulting? Is it because you refuse to believe that Tebow looked so bad in training camp that the "competition" was probably over in a day? Or for some other reason?

I think mechanically and fundamentally Tebow sucks and the FO knows it. They want to bring him along so that when the time comes for him to play he will have every tool to help him succeed. That is why he is on the bench. The skills he needs to master right now can be done without him playing yet...

Edit: I know my above post comes across as a bit aggressive but I actually do want to know why you feel it was a farce. I am trying to understand the other opinion in this matter.

[jhildebrand]

Out of curiosity why do you find it insulting? Is it because you refuse to believe that Tebow looked so bad in training camp that the "competition" was probably over in a day? Or for some other reason?

I think mechanically and fundamentally Tebow sucks and the FO knows it. They want to bring him along so that when the time comes for him to play he will have every tool to help him succeed. That is why he is on the bench. The skills he needs to master right now can be done without him playing yet...

Edit: I know my above post comes across as a bit aggressive but I actually do want to know why you feel it was a farce. I am trying to understand the other opinion in this matter.

It didn't come across strong or aggressive. :beer:

How many open competitions at QB around the league in recent years involved one qb getting all the reps with the #1s? How can you say T2 and Quinn looked so bad when they didn't get any reps with the 1s? We know just how bad our issue of depth is. Don't you think it was pertinent to see T2 and Quinn with the 1s to get an apples to apples comparison? Also, wouldn't you want to see Orton with the #2s just for comparison purposes?

There have been plenty of QB competitions around the league in recent years. Shoot even Rivera in Carolina had Clausen not only split time with the #1's but alternated their PS starts. Ditto for Shanahan with Beck and Grossman. In fact, it wasn't a secret around the league that Shanahan preferred Beck to Grossman and gave Beck every opportunity to win the job.

It isn't that T2 didn't get reps with the #1. Neither did Quinn.

Next, it would stand to reason that if this were a true and real competition, after the night Orton had in Dallas vs T2, T2 should have at a minimum earned a deeper look. Elway knows some guys don't show in practice what they do in games. Alfred Williams talks about it on the FAN often about who some of those guys were on the team. T2 didn't earn anymore time in fact he was only in for 3 plays the following week against Buffalo and was only allowed one throw. It was a play he stayed in the pocket, took contact, delivered a perfectly thrown deep ball only for Fells to drop it. Yet Quinn earned more playing time and moved up the depth chart based on his time against the #3's.

The Qb position was the only one where the 1,2, and 3 weren't shuffled. The DT position was one where Vickerson, McBean, Warren, Bunkley, and even Harvey got some reps with the #1's! Don't you find it the least bit odd that the QB position didn't get multiple looks when the organization was promising one along with TRANSPARENCY? :confused:

Now then, there is also several instances in which each Fox and Elway on multiple occasions offered the "if the season began today, Orton would be the starter." It seems to me if there were going to be a competition and transparency, and I were in their shoes, I would be saying "I don't know who is going to be the QB but I can tell you we will know after the competition and I hope each guy comes ready to play!" But they didn't.

As for T2's mechanics and footwork. Meh. Rivers mechanics suck. But the kid balls. The fire, something which so many in Denver hate him for, alone helps. You don't see that in Orton but you do T2.

His footwork is terrible. However, that is something that improves with play and reps with the 1s. Repetition. Despite those issues he still put up pretty nice numbers in three games last year.

He came back from 17 down at half with Houston throwing the sink at him. Orton hasn't been able to overcome 3 points at half in 17 tries.

In T2s 3 games, with a much worse D, he put up better numbers than Cutler who is still revered here by many(thanks Northman). Find 3 consecutive games where Orton has numbers that match T2's. You can't.

So at the end of the day we have a guy who has pretty footwork, has a nice 3, 5, and 7 foot drop, has a fluid throwing motion and what good is it? :confused: It is good for 6 wins in 26 games WOOOO HOOO PARTY TIME. Let's also forget he is still a 7 year vet with the most batted balls at the LOS, leads the league in turnovers, and still refuses to go through his reads-it is either lock on and force or one read and check down.

Sorry if this was strong on my end. But I have been a bronco fan since the womb. Denver's fans are known for being smart, sophisticated, and amongst the best in the league. All of a sudden the very team we support wants to act as if we are dumbshits. We aren't! They tried to tell us we were wrong on McD (I was critical of him day 1 when it wasn't popular! The media was a big nut hugger for him early on). We were right. They tried to tell us we were idiots when it came to Hillis. We were right. So why are we wrong now?

[Bullgator]

It didn't come across strong or aggressive. :beer:

How many open competitions at QB around the league in recent years involved one qb getting all the reps with the #1s? How can you say T2 and Quinn looked so bad when they didn't get any reps with the 1s? We know just how bad our issue of depth is. Don't you think it was pertinent to see T2 and Quinn with the 1s to get an apples to apples comparison? Also, wouldn't you want to see Orton with the #2s just for comparison purposes?

There have been plenty of QB competitions around the league in recent years. Shoot even Rivera in Carolina had Clausen not only split time with the #1's but alternated their PS starts. Ditto for Shanahan with Beck and Grossman. In fact, it wasn't a secret around the league that Shanahan preferred Beck to Grossman and gave Beck every opportunity to win the job.

It isn't that T2 didn't get reps with the #1. Neither did Quinn.

Next, it would stand to reason that if this were a true and real competition, after the night Orton had in Dallas vs T2, T2 should have at a minimum earned a deeper look. Elway knows some guys don't show in practice what they do in games. Alfred Williams talks about it on the FAN often about who some of those guys were on the team. T2 didn't earn anymore time in fact he was only in for 3 plays the following week against Buffalo and was only allowed one throw. It was a play he stayed in the pocket, took contact, delivered a perfectly thrown deep ball only for Fells to drop it. Yet Quinn earned more playing time and moved up the depth chart based on his time against the #3's.

The Qb position was the only one where the 1,2, and 3 weren't shuffled. The DT position was one where Vickerson, McBean, Warren, Bunkley, and even Harvey got some reps with the #1's! Don't you find it the least bit odd that the QB position didn't get multiple looks when the organization was promising one along with TRANSPARENCY? :confused:

Now then, there is also several instances in which each Fox and Elway on multiple occasions offered the "if the season began today, Orton would be the starter." It seems to me if there were going to be a competition and transparency, and I were in their shoes, I would be saying "I don't know who is going to be the QB but I can tell you we will know after the competition and I hope each guy comes ready to play!" But they didn't.

As for T2's mechanics and footwork. Meh. Rivers mechanics suck. But the kid balls. The fire, something which so many in Denver hate him for, alone helps. You don't see that in Orton but you do T2.

His footwork is terrible. However, that is something that improves with play and reps with the 1s. Repetition. Despite those issues he still put up pretty nice numbers in three games last year.

He came back from 17 down at half with Houston throwing the sink at him. Orton hasn't been able to overcome 3 points at half in 17 tries.

In T2s 3 games, with a much worse D, he put up better numbers than Cutler (thanks Northman). Find 3 consecutive games where Orton has numbers that match T2's. You can't.

So at the end of the day we have a guy who has pretty footwork, has a nice 3, 5, and 7 foot drop, has a fluid throwing motion and what good is it? :confused: It is good for 6 wins in 26 games WOOOO HOOO PARTY TIME. Let's also forget he is still a 7 year vet with the most batted balls at the LOS, leads the league in turnovers, and still refuses to go through his reads-it is either lock on and force or one read and check down.

Sorry if this was strong on my end. But I have been a bronco fan since the womb. Denver's fans are known for being smart, sophisticated, and amongst the best in the league. All of a sudden the very team we support wants to act as if we are dumbshits. We aren't! They tried to tell us we were wrong on McD (I was critical of him day 1 when it wasn't popular! The media was a big nut hugger for him early on). We were right. They tried to tell us we were idiots when it came to Hillis. We were right. So why are we wrong now?

that answer your question? lawl

[jhildebrand]

By the way, I forgot to mention the fact that the so called QB competition was declared over almost immediately. Why? :confused: If it was a real competition, and the staff knows that Orton is clearly ahead of TT why not show that to the fans over the course of the majority of PS? :confused: Think about that for a second.

If they genuinely believed Orton is everything they think he is, then missing some reps to prove your point with T2 to avoid the circus we now have wouldn't have hurt Orton and would have gone a long way for the team. They didn't do that though! Maybe they felt Orton needed all the reps he could get. But it doesn't speak to a competition. If one guy was so far ahead and so much more polished than the other, than it would have been for the best, again to avoid the circus, to limit Orton's reps and show the fans T2 is what they said he is.

[jlarsiii]

It didn't come across strong or aggressive. :beer:

How many open competitions at QB around the league in recent years involved one qb getting all the reps with the #1s? How can you say T2 and Quinn looked so bad when they didn't get any reps with the 1s? We know just how bad our issue of depth is. Don't you think it was pertinent to see T2 and Quinn with the 1s to get an apples to apples comparison? Also, wouldn't you want to see Orton with the #2s just for comparison purposes?

There have been plenty of QB competitions around the league in recent years. Shoot even Rivera in Carolina had Clausen not only split time with the #1's but alternated their PS starts. Ditto for Shanahan with Beck and Grossman. In fact, it wasn't a secret around the league that Shanahan preferred Beck to Grossman and gave Beck every opportunity to win the job.

It isn't that T2 didn't get reps with the #1. Neither did Quinn.

Next, it would stand to reason that if this were a true and real competition, after the night Orton had in Dallas vs T2, T2 should have at a minimum earned a deeper look. Elway knows some guys don't show in practice what they do in games. Alfred Williams talks about it on the FAN often about who some of those guys were on the team. T2 didn't earn anymore time in fact he was only in for 3 plays the following week against Buffalo and was only allowed one throw. It was a play he stayed in the pocket, took contact, delivered a perfectly thrown deep ball only for Fells to drop it. Yet Quinn earned more playing time and moved up the depth chart based on his time against the #3's.

The Qb position was the only one where the 1,2, and 3 weren't shuffled. The DT position was one where Vickerson, McBean, Warren, Bunkley, and even Harvey got some reps with the #1's! Don't you find it the least bit odd that the QB position didn't get multiple looks when the organization was promising one along with TRANSPARENCY? :confused:

Now then, there is also several instances in which each Fox and Elway on multiple occasions offered the "if the season began today, Orton would be the starter." It seems to me if there were going to be a competition and transparency, and I were in their shoes, I would be saying "I don't know who is going to be the QB but I can tell you we will know after the competition and I hope each guy comes ready to play!" But they didn't.

As for T2's mechanics and footwork. Meh. Rivers mechanics suck. But the kid balls. The fire, something which so many in Denver hate him for, alone helps. You don't see that in Orton but you do T2.

His footwork is terrible. However, that is something that improves with play and reps with the 1s. Repetition. Despite those issues he still put up pretty nice numbers in three games last year.

He came back from 17 down at half with Houston throwing the sink at him. Orton hasn't been able to overcome 3 points at half in 17 tries.

In T2s 3 games, with a much worse D, he put up better numbers than Cutler (thanks Northman). Find 3 consecutive games where Orton has numbers that match T2's. You can't.

So at the end of the day we have a guy who has pretty footwork, has a nice 3, 5, and 7 foot drop, has a fluid throwing motion and what good is it? :confused: It is good for 6 wins in 26 games WOOOO HOOO PARTY TIME. Let's also forget he is still a 7 year vet with the most batted balls at the LOS, leads the league in turnovers, and still refuses to go through his reads-it is either lock on and force or one read and check down.

Sorry if this was strong on my end. But I have been a bronco fan since the womb. Denver's fans are known for being smart, sophisticated, and amongst the best in the league. All of a sudden the very team we support wants to act as if we are dumbshits. We aren't! They tried to tell us we were wrong on McD (I was critical of him day 1 when it wasn't popular! The media was a big nut hugger for him early on). We were right. They tried to tell us we were idiots when it came to Hillis. We were right. So why are we wrong now?

I see your point of view clearly. Thanks for the reply.

Basically what I garner from your post is that mainly you feel it was a farce because you didn't see it to be fair and honest in terms of pre-season games. So they were not competing in any of the practices?

My viewpoint is that maybe the competition was fair, AND it was over in a day. With Elway helping to eval I believe that the FO could not get past Tebow's lack of fundamentals mastery. I am not talking about his throwing mechanics cause it will never change but rather about how he has to think about taking the snap, think about his drop, and then think about reading his progression (which he doesn't do that I have really seen yet). If he is doing all of that thinking then he sure as heck isn't thinking about recognizing the defense in any way to know where to go with the ball or even to audible to another play.

Tebow needs to get to the point where he isn't thinking about the basics, and then he can read and react to what he sees in front of him. Then maybe he will audible or at least go through the throwing progression. One of the things that disappointed me the most when watching him play is if his primary target was not open he tucks the ball and runs with it, and at no point did I really see him bring his eyes up and even look to see if someone breaks open to throw to. He drops his vision, puts his head down, and runs...
Every other QB that is worth his salt keeps his eyes up until the very last possible second to try and make a play. That is what he did in college and he needs to unlearn that right now cause the best QBs never stop looking downfield.

I see most other posters complain about this lack of competition, lack of transparency, and many other things as an attempt to undermine the credibility of the FO, or more accurately in any attempt to try to rationalize playing a QB who clearly isn't ready to play yet. I find that sad to say the least.

I think the competition was fair, and it was happening at every practice, every meeting, and during every play. I think it was over almost before it began. I am not stating that I think Orton is good because clearly he isn't, but he has mastered the fundamentals of the position which freed him to focus on the other aspects of the game that QBs, especially good QBs, must master to succeed. That is how Tebow lost the competition as quickly as it started, and that is why he is much better served to be on the bench. When he gets to the point where he stops thinking about everything and just reads and reacts then he will be ready to hit the field.

I see a QB who isn't ready, and I will take the FO at their word that he will be brought along slowly. I understand that no amount of belly-aching or booing or dumb billboards or irrational rationalizations by the fans will change who starts at QB for this team. I will continue to wait for the fanbase to come back to their senses and quit trying to find any statement or perceived slight to use as an argument for why they want a change a QB. They need to look at Tebow and critically evaluate him based on NFL standards, and it is my hope that when they do it will become readily apparent that Tebow isn't ready yet...

[jlarsiii]

By the way, I forgot to mention the fact that the so called QB competition was declared over almost immediately. Why? :confused: If it was a real competition, and the staff knows that Orton is clearly ahead of TT why not show that to the fans over the course of the majority of PS? :confused: Think about that for a second.

If they genuinely believed Orton is everything they think he is, then missing some reps to prove your point with T2 to avoid the circus we now have wouldn't have hurt Orton and would have gone a long way for the team. They didn't do that though! Maybe they felt Orton needed all the reps he could get. But it doesn't speak to a competition. If one guy was so far ahead and so much more polished than the other, than it would have been for the best, again to avoid the circus, to limit Orton's reps and show the fans T2 is what they said he is.

That would have done the exact opposite. It would have added fuel to the flames. Plus it interrupts the timing etc. that offenses need to work on to get any semblance of a rhythm before the regular season starts. Also, where they installing a new offensive scheme? If so then again the offense needs time working together to understand it and build rhythm.

Giving Tebow snaps when he had no chance of being the #1 guy just takes away from that. Seems pretty basic and straightforward to me.

[Ravage!!!]

Just because the fans don't think there was competition doesn't mean there wasn't. It simply was over with in a day because Tebow showed he was that far behind. Open competition doens't mean there isn't a favorite going into the race. It's up to the second guy to catch up and overcome in order to win. Tebow proved he wasn't in the race from the moment the shot was fired into the air.... thats the problem. But that doesn't mean the coaches didn't give Tebow a chance to prove he was ready.

[TXBRONC]

By the way, I forgot to mention the fact that the so called QB competition was declared over almost immediately. Why? :confused: If it was a real competition, and the staff knows that Orton is clearly ahead of TT why not show that to the fans over the course of the majority of PS? :confused: Think about that for a second.

If they genuinely believed Orton is everything they think he is, then missing some reps to prove your point with T2 to avoid the circus we now have wouldn't have hurt Orton and would have gone a long way for the team. They didn't do that though! Maybe they felt Orton needed all the reps he could get. But it doesn't speak to a competition. If one guy was so far ahead and so much more polished than the other, than it would have been for the best, again to avoid the circus, to limit Orton's reps and show the fans T2 is what they said he is.


I see your point of view clearly. Thanks for the reply.

Basically what I garner from your post is that mainly you feel it was a farce because you didn't see it to be fair and honest in terms of pre-season games. So they were not competing in any of the practices?

My viewpoint is that maybe the competition was fair, AND it was over in a day. With Elway helping to eval I believe that the FO could not get past Tebow's lack of fundamentals mastery. I am not talking about his throwing mechanics cause it will never change but rather about how he has to think about taking the snap, think about his drop, and then think about reading his progression (which he doesn't do that I have really seen yet). If he is doing all of that thinking then he sure as heck isn't thinking about recognizing the defense in any way to know where to go with the ball or even to audible to another play.

Tebow needs to get to the point where he isn't thinking about the basics, and then he can read and react to what he sees in front of him. Then maybe he will audible or at least go through the throwing progression. One of the things that disappointed me the most when watching him play is if his primary target was not open he tucks the ball and runs with it, and at no point did I really see him bring his eyes up and even look to see if someone breaks open to throw to. He drops his vision, puts his head down, and runs...
Every other QB that is worth his salt keeps his eyes up until the very last possible second to try and make a play. That is what he did in college and he needs to unlearn that right now cause the best QBs never stop looking downfield.

I see most other posters complain about this lack of competition, lack of transparency, and many other things as an attempt to undermine the credibility of the FO, or more accurately in any attempt to try to rationalize playing a QB who clearly isn't ready to play yet. I find that sad to say the least.

I think the competition was fair, and it was happening at every practice, every meeting, and during every play. I think it was over almost before it began. I am not stating that I think Orton is good because clearly he isn't, but he has mastered the fundamentals of the position which freed him to focus on the other aspects of the game that QBs, especially good QBs, must master to succeed. That is how Tebow lost the competition as quickly as it started, and that is why he is much better served to be on the bench. When he gets to the point where he stops thinking about everything and just reads and reacts then he will be ready to hit the field.

I see a QB who isn't ready, and I will take the FO at their word that he will be brought along slowly. I understand that no amount of belly-aching or booing or dumb billboards or irrational rationalizations by the fans will change who starts at QB for this team. I will continue to wait for the fanbase to come back to their senses and quit trying to find any statement or perceived slight to use as an argument for why they want a change a QB. They need to look at Tebow and critically evaluate him based on NFL standards, and it is my hope that when they do it will become readily apparent that Tebow isn't ready yet...

I would be surprised if Fox went into camp thinking that Orton would probably win the competition. That doesn't mean by any stretch he didn't give Tebow a fair chance to win the job. Our fan base is knowledgeable about game so I don't think any of were surprised that Orton would look good in camp and in preseason. So it's not really a big surprise Orton went to the head of class. That doesn't mean he'll stay there. If you look back Fox's history he's made a switch at quarterback on more than one occasion. As stubborn as Fox may be his record shows he'll make that move. I can't see Orton remaining the starting quarterback on a team end up around 4-12 or worse.

[jlarsiii]

I would be surprised if Fox went into camp thinking that Orton would probably win the competition. That doesn't mean by any stretch he didn't give Tebow a fair chance to win the job. Our fan base is knowledgeable about game so I don't think any of were surprised that Orton would look good in camp and in preseason. So it's not really a big surprise Orton went to the head of class. That doesn't mean he'll stay there. If you look back Fox's history he's made a switch at quarterback on more than one occasion. As stubborn as Fox may be his record shows he'll make that move. I can't see Orton remaining the starting quarterback on a team end up around 4-12 or worse.

True. There is always that possibility. I have no idea if and when it will happen though.

Right now I feel that if they put Tebow in to play this year he will be as good as gone from the team. If he were to play more than 3 games he will get all of his faults exposed and there will be greater uproar to draft a QB. He will be better protected to learn from the sidelines this year, we continue to draft to put some talent back on this team, and we see what Tebow can bring next year with a full off-season of training.

For the record I still don't see Tebow panning out either way. Until he shows me something else I feel his ceiling will be as a Brad Smith type role player only.

[vandammage13]

True. There is always that possibility. I have no idea if and when it will happen though.

Right now I feel that if they put Tebow in to play this year he will be as good as gone from the team. If he were to play more than 3 games he will get all of his faults exposed and there will be greater uproar to draft a QB. He will be better protected to learn from the sidelines this year, we continue to draft to put some talent back on this team, and we see what Tebow can bring next year with a full off-season of training.

For the record I still don't see Tebow panning out either way. Until he shows me something else I feel his ceiling will be as a Brad Smith type role player only.

Kind of like how all of his faults were exposed in 3 games last year....Oh wait...

[TXBRONC]

True. There is always that possibility. I have no idea if and when it will happen though.

Right now I feel that if they put Tebow in to play this year he will be as good as gone from the team. If he were to play more than 3 games he will get all of his faults exposed and there will be greater uproar to draft a QB. He will be better protected to learn from the sidelines this year, we continue to draft to put some talent back on this team, and we see what Tebow can bring next year with a full off-season of training.

For the record I still don't see Tebow panning out either way. Until he shows me something else I feel his ceiling will be as a Brad Smith type role player only.

I think Fox's history suggests that it will be around the half-way point. I still think it could come as early as the bye week. EFX and especially E and F need know if Tebow can be a starting quarterback. Because of the contract situations of Orton and Quinn I very little doubt Elway will draft a quarterback at some point in the next draft it just matter of where. That imo will be determined how Tebow does if and more likely when he gets his chance.

[Canmore]

I think Fox's history suggests that it will be around the half-way point. I still think it could come as early as the bye week. EFX and especially E and F need know if Tebow can be a starting quarterback. Because of the contract situations of Orton and Quinn I very little doubt Elway will draft a quarterback at some point in the next draft it just matter of where. That imo will be determined how Tebow does if and more likely when he gets his chance.

Hope it is sooner than later. Orton is not getting it done. It appears he just doesn't have the mindset or the tools. I'm really hoping we make a quarterback change at the bye week but I am not expecting it. I think they are going to stick with Kyle in the short term.

We are going to draft a quarterback in 2012, what round is debatable, but I believe we are going to go early.

[claymore]

Just because the fans don't think there was competition doesn't mean there wasn't. It simply was over with in a day because Tebow showed he was that far behind. Open competition doens't mean there isn't a favorite going into the race. It's up to the second guy to catch up and overcome in order to win. Tebow proved he wasn't in the race from the moment the shot was fired into the air.... thats the problem. But that doesn't mean the coaches didn't give Tebow a chance to prove he was ready.

People forget that the competition for the #2 spot was wide open. He had plenty of reps there, plenty of chances. He couldnt beat out Brady Quin, so they created the BS Co #2 thing.

[Ravage!!!]

Hope it is sooner than later. Orton is not getting it done. It appears he just doesn't have the mindset or the tools. I'm really hoping we make a quarterback change at the bye week but I am not expecting it. I think they are going to stick with Kyle in the short term.

We are going to draft a quarterback in 2012, what round is debatable, but I believe we are going to go early.

Agreed. I think Orton has pretty much hung up his cleats, mentally.. much like Plummer did when we drafted Cutler. So, like you, I hope that after the bye its time to just "Try something different"... if thats what they need to tell themselves to put Tebow in.

[BroncoStud]

Orton had a chance to leave and didn't. He knew full well he wasn't wanted here from day 1. I think it's comical he views himself as a starter in the NFL. He chose the $$$ to stay. It's hard to feel any sympathy for him at that point. He got paid a lot of $$$, more than most will make in their lifetime, he has helped lose a LOT of games in Denver, he has failed to elevate his play at times it was absolutely necessary to help this franchise win games, and he treats being the QB for the Denver Broncos as an entitlement, not the honor of which most of us fans believe it is.

For all of that I hope that this Sunday is the last time I ever see Kyle Orton take a snap for the Denver Broncos. I honestly don't care who replaces him, how they do, how they look, I just want him removed from the starting lineup and replaced by someone who will but their ass to win this team games and deliver hope to the fans, those of us who have been watching and loving Denver football for decades.

[Ravage!!!]

of course he picked the money to stay. I would have too. But I don't think anyone is feeling sorry for him. I just don't blame him for not taking a deal that would have paid him millions less. No one would take a deal that pays you millions less.

But I'm bored of watching the Broncos with Kyle, and that says a lot.

[TXBRONC]

Orton had a chance to leave and didn't. He knew full well he wasn't wanted here from day 1. I think it's comical he views himself as a starter in the NFL. He chose the $$$ to stay. It's hard to feel any sympathy for him at that point. He got paid a lot of $$$, more than most will make in their lifetime, he has helped lose a LOT of games in Denver, he has failed to elevate his play at times it was absolutely necessary to help this franchise win games, and he treats being the QB for the Denver Broncos as an entitlement, not the honor of which most of us fans believe it is.

For all of that I hope that this Sunday is the last time I ever see Kyle Orton take a snap for the Denver Broncos. I honestly don't care who replaces him, how they do, how they look, I just want him removed from the starting lineup and replaced by someone who will but their ass to win this team games and deliver hope to the fans, those of us who have been watching and loving Denver football for decades.

I don't blame Orton for not going to Miami for less money. Brandon Spano's (Mile High Sports) take on the trade debacle is that Orton balked at it because he's not ever going see the kind money he's this year again. But I also believe he thought with another season statistically like he's had the past two seasons he might be able parlay that into a similar contract accept long term. I can't blame him for taking that risk.

[jhildebrand]

Just because the fans don't think there was competition doesn't mean there wasn't. It simply was over with in a day because Tebow showed he was that far behind. Open competition doens't mean there isn't a favorite going into the race. It's up to the second guy to catch up and overcome in order to win. Tebow proved he wasn't in the race from the moment the shot was fired into the air.... thats the problem. But that doesn't mean the coaches didn't give Tebow a chance to prove he was ready.

Then why would Fox insist to the SD media that nothing was handed to Orton? :confused: Why be on the defensive about that? Nobody has suggested as much, other than me and a few other posters.

It is a peculiar quote and a mis-step IMHO on Fox's part.

I would buy the "it was over in a day argument" if someone other than Orton had taken even ONE rep with the #1's. But the fact is ONLY Orton took reps with the 1s. Again, we all know how bad our issue with depth is. It is an uphill battle arguing there was a competition when 2 of the 3 QBs had to work with far less talent than Orton.

At this point, I am blue in the face with this O vs T2 crap. T2's talking will be his playing on the field. It is my sincere belief that we will see a much more exciting and entertaining team and one that competes better than the Orton led team despite a more difficult schedule.

[Ravage!!!]

Then why would Fox insist to the SD media that nothing was handed to Orton? :confused: Why be on the defensive about that? Nobody has suggested as much, other than me and a few other posters.
How do you know this? You think the posters on these message boards are the only ones that came up with that stuff? Surely you aren't suggesting he's reading the message boards. :confused:



I would buy the "it was over in a day argument" if someone other than Orton had taken even ONE rep with the #1's.
Again, you don't know this. You are talking pre-season games, and the fight was LONG dead by then. If it was over that quickly, and I believe it was MORE than obvious to everyone at the camps, then what would you expect Fox to do.. go through the motions for the sake of going through the motions?


At this point, I am blue in the face with this O vs T2 crap. T2's talking will be his playing on the field. It is my sincere belief that we will see a much more exciting and entertaining team and one that competes better than the Orton led team despite a more difficult schedule.

I think that goes without saying. Anybody other than Orton, would have been more entertaining to watch.

[MOtorboat]

Then why would Fox insist to the SD media that nothing was handed to Orton? :confused: Why be on the defensive about that? Nobody has suggested as much, other than me and a few other posters.

It is a peculiar quote and a mis-step IMHO on Fox's part.

It's not peculiar at all. Do you think those press conferences are 20 minute coach diatribes and he said that out of the blue?

He was clearly asked a question about the quarterback competition in camp. And he answered.

[jhildebrand]

It's not peculiar at all. Do you think those press conferences are 20 minute coach diatribes and he said that out of the blue?

He was clearly asked a question about the quarterback competition in camp. And he answered.

But the Q&A were clear. Nobody asked if Orton was handed the job and it hasn't been insinuated once by anybody outside of forum posters. So why go down that road? :confused:

Some how somewhere Fox got wind that Orton was "handed" the job. Maybe it is in legaue circles who knows. But the fact is he brought that up without any prompting.

[MOtorboat]

But the Q&A were clear. Nobody asked if Orton was handed the job and it hasn't been insinuated once by anybody outside of forum posters. So why go down that road? :confused:

Some how somewhere Fox got wind that Orton was "handed" the job. Maybe it is in legaue circles who knows. But the fact is he brought that up without any prompting.

Actually, I haven't seen the question, what was it?

[Ravage!!!]

But the Q&A were clear. Nobody asked if Orton was handed the job and it hasn't been insinuated once by anybody outside of forum posters. So why go down that road? :confused:

Some how somewhere Fox got wind that Orton was "handed" the job. Maybe it is in legaue circles who knows. But the fact is he brought that up without any prompting.

jhil...seriously, what makes you think it wasn't insinuated/asked/mentioned or questioned about before? You think the ONLY time these coaches talk with the media and local guys is at the press conferences? Its not "somehow" or "somewhere".... someone mentioned it to him before, and before someone (or even maybe before someone in particular) asked him about this "handing Orton the job" nonsense, he made a statement. Its really not that strange or odd.

[Lancane]

of course he picked the money to stay. I would have too. But I don't think anyone is feeling sorry for him. I just don't blame him for not taking a deal that would have paid him millions less. No one would take a deal that pays you millions less.

But I'm bored of watching the Broncos with Kyle, and that says a lot.

I believe you and I talked about this on another thread awhile back Rav, about how there are two schools of thought on the subject; many if not most would have taken the money, it's rare for someone with such a up and down career to make that amount money for one season. Then again there are those few, including me (if I was in his place) that would have opted for a fresh start on a team that had a fan base that wanted me and had a lot of pieces in place, not everyone who plays the sport is all about the money, even though it seems like the majority does just that.

But like you I am bored of watching Orton, I'm past bored...the problem is we have a head coach who is so conservative that he's been called boring and an offensive coordinator that's so inept that he makes McDaniels' offenses look like a day at Disneyland...and it would likely take Elway telling them to make a change to actually force them to do as much.

[horsepig]

I don't blame Orton for not going to Miami for less money. Brandon Spano's (Mile High Sports) take on the trade debacle is that Orton balked at it because he's not ever going see the kind money he's this year again. But I also believe he thought with another season statistically like he's had the past two seasons he might be able parlay that into a similar contract accept long term. I can't blame him for taking that risk.

Just means we have to keep eating cold pancakes, so to speak.

[horsepig]

Okay, Lan & TX, do you guys think Orton has any credibility? Does he value performing to the his best and winning as a personal legacy?

Or is he taking the money and running, albeit looking for even more? I think the QB of the Denver Broncos takes on a greater responsibility than his own welfare. If you are not up to that standard then get the **** outa town!

[jhildebrand]

Actually, I haven't seen the question, what was it?

It was played all day on FM1043 the fan yesterday. I am not sure if it is there. I will see if i can't find it.

[jhildebrand]

jhil...seriously, what makes you think it wasn't insinuated/asked/mentioned or questioned about before? You think the ONLY time these coaches talk with the media and local guys is at the press conferences? Its not "somehow" or "somewhere".... someone mentioned it to him before, and before someone (or even maybe before someone in particular) asked him about this "handing Orton the job" nonsense, he made a statement. Its really not that strange or odd.

Then who? :confused: It hasn't been local! The local media has basically become an extension of the PR department. They have yet to take this team to task for anything. The national media? They all ran with the story the broncos sold, too.

So if he was asked this so much before, why can't ONE person, maybe you, find me one reference prior to this one where there is even the question that Orton was handed the job. Go ahead and look for it. I will wait.

[jhildebrand]

How do you know this? You think the posters on these message boards are the only ones that came up with that stuff? Surely you aren't suggesting he's reading the message boards. :confused:

Nope. Fox is an old fuddy duddy. He has made it clear he, like Orton, could care less about pleasing the fans outside of winning games. He aint out to "please" us. Although there was word the McDaniels regime was very clued into the various forums and listened to EVERY one of the sports shows.

I am saying that the question was generic in nature about T2 and the "competition." Fox didn't have to go down the road and mentioning handing the job to Orton. The line of question didn't bring it there. Fox did. My guess is, as I stated above, there is talk in league circles that was the case!




Again, you don't know this. You are talking pre-season games, and the fight was LONG dead by then. If it was over that quickly, and I believe it was MORE than obvious to everyone at the camps, then what would you expect Fox to do.. go through the motions for the sake of going through the motions?

There weren't many practices that took place prior to those that were open to the public. Even then, the new cba dictated that those were practices without pads.

So Orton won the jobs in shorts and a tshirt? :confused: Great! Doesn't really sound like a FOOTBALL competition to me. It also doesn't support your case really either does it?

T2 and Quin did get some reps with the 1s when Orton's wife had a baby. Funny how little was mentioned of it then.

Going through the motions? No. I don't expect them to go through the motions. I do expect them to deliver on their idea of transparency and the promise of giving the QB's a long look and an open competition.

Was Shanahan going through the motions in DC? :confused: He wanted Beck to have that job. It wasn't named until right before week 1. How is DC's record by the way?

Was Carolina going through the motion when their QB battle went until the last PS game?

How about Jax who had a QB situation similar to Orton and T2? Was that going through the motion? At least they were smarter in releasing Garrard after a bad practice the day after being named a starter.

Seems to me if this was a competition and there was going to be transparency as promised, then there wouldn't be question that there was a competition. It would be as open and shut as some, like the Broncos, want you to believe. It becomes harder to accept when one earned more playing time and different reps based on PS games and another didn't.

I know my view isn't popular here. I get that. I am ok with that. This is how it was when I railed away about McD. This is how it was when I insisted that Hillis be playing more. In time history and the benefit of hindsight and many people ended up saying the exact same crap I had been posting (some after asking if I wear tin foil hats :lol:).

I am not alone. They had a dude on the fan with the "follow the money" article and they tried to paint him as an X files type looney.

The bottom line here is if it were so EASY OPEN AND SHUT as the Broncos want people to believe, then how come there are SO MANY who just didn't see a "competition nor transparency?!?!?" :confused:

[Sinthor]

actually, when you look at fox's history in carolina he's made several QB switches midseason (from memory, excuse me if these are inaccurate: peete to weinke; weinke to delhomme; delhomme to moore; moore to clausen; etc.)

obviously, fox doesn't see anybody on the roster he thinks is better than orton; at least not right now.

is he right? i don't know. but he thinks he is.

I have some faith Fox will make the change as well based on his history, but unfortunately, with Orton's trade not working out, he kind of had to let things play out. Well, he didn't, but they made a decision that in order to not risk alienating vets and trying to build trust and get the team to buy in, that they wouldn't rock the boat. Hence, Orton had to lose the job through his play, if at all. He's well on his way to doing so and that will give the staff their shot at making the change. I don't think it's even a matter of belief for them at this point. I think it will just be a matter of seeing what they've got for the benefit of the future, like many fans are saying. If Tebow comes in and does well and shows promise, well and good. The team can focus on other areas of improvement and consider more how to use him best. If he crashes and burns, the team will be able to focus on areas of need, and likely address the QB situation in the coming draft that is supposed to be deeper in QB talent. They just have to let Orton keep or lose the job based on his performance.

I agree the bye week is the perfect time to make a change if you're going to, but it's pretty early. It will depend on whether the coaches think that Orton's demonstrated enough incompetence to let them justify the move.

[Canmore]

I have some faith Fox will make the change as well based on his history, but unfortunately, with Orton's trade not working out, he kind of had to let things play out. Well, he didn't, but they made a decision that in order to not risk alienating vets and trying to build trust and get the team to buy in, that they wouldn't rock the boat. Hence, Orton had to lose the job through his play, if at all. He's well on his way to doing so and that will give the staff their shot at making the change. I don't think it's even a matter of belief for them at this point. I think it will just be a matter of seeing what they've got for the benefit of the future, like many fans are saying. If Tebow comes in and does well and shows promise, well and good. The team can focus on other areas of improvement and consider more how to use him best. If he crashes and burns, the team will be able to focus on areas of need, and likely address the QB situation in the coming draft that is supposed to be deeper in QB talent. They just have to let Orton keep or lose the job based on his performance.

I agree the bye week is the perfect time to make a change if you're going to, but it's pretty early. It will depend on whether the coaches think that Orton's demonstrated enough incompetence to let them justify the move.

Orton has had two chances to win the game in the fourth quarter and failed each time. Does this sound familiar? Don't be surprised, :laugh: if this happens this weekend. Kyle has played himself out of a job in my opinion. It's time for a change. Tebow, Quinn or Weber; I don't care. I just want to see anyone other than Orton. Kyles incompetence and indifference are lethal.

[BroncoBJ]

I don't get why everyone wants Orton to do so terrible this week. No matter how bad he does, he will probably still be our starter after the bye. :fight: Since he'll have some nice 4th quarter stat padding where he'll lead us to 10 points and throw for 150 yards and a TD, looking sharp and making Fox think that we did good things offensivly as we go on to lose 42-17.

Best thing to root for to see Tebow would probably be to just hope Orton gets hurt.

Shoudl be another interesting Sunday though at least. :salute:

[MOtorboat]

HEAD COACH JOHN FOX

You’ve repeatedly said there is no quarterback controversy. If you were explaining it to the average person who doesn’t know the game, why isn’t there a controversy at quarterback on your team?

We’ve got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He’s) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time and is getting better every day. But we had an open competition. Alright? Kyle Orton was named the starter. He earned that. It wasn’t given to him. And we are one quarter into the season. Four games. And we’re 1-3. There might be noise on the outside. Our locker room is very comfortable with where we are. Not so much record, but where we are moving forward really at all positions, not just the quarterback position.

John, I know you’ve seen Denver from the outside and I’m sure you knew how crazed it is for that team. What’s been the reality of it for you? Has it been even more jolting than you thought it might be?

No, not at all. I spent five years in New York. I think we’ve got great fans. Very passionate fans. That’s one of the things that was very appealing to me about the job here in Denver. It’s a great organization with great ownership. They’ve had some very storied seasons. Unfortunately over the last couple years, they’ve lost, and it’s a frustrated fan base and understandably so. We’re a 4-12 team from a year ago that’s played exactly one quarter of our season and we’re not a finished product. I think we’ll improve moving forward. So I totally understand it. I think everybody in this building wants to turn it around and everybody’s working hard in that direction.

http://www.chargers.com/news/article-1/Conference-call-Orton-and-Fox/244af3e3-792f-41c3-9e37-d65f5d67b7e9

[chazoe60]

"We're 1-3...............Our locker room is comfortable where we're at"



I know he qualifies it later with the "not so much record" comment but that quote still bothers me greatly. A locker room coming off a 4-12 season and starting another one 1-3 should not be comfortable about anything.

[Agent of Orange]

"We're 1-3...............Our locker room is comfortable where we're at"



I know he qualifies it later with the "not so much record" comment but that quote still bothers me greatly. A locker room coming off a 4-12 season and starting another one 1-3 should not be comfortable about anything.

Furthermore, at 4-12/1-3, it shouldn't even matter how they feel.

[Ravage!!!]

"We're 1-3...............Our locker room is comfortable where we're at"



I know he qualifies it later with the "not so much record" comment but that quote still bothers me greatly. A locker room coming off a 4-12 season and starting another one 1-3 should not be comfortable about anything.

You can't expect the guys to be wandering the locker room moping around and angry all the time. They are competitive people. Alpha personalities that hate to lose. Don't just think that BECAUSE they are losing, they are comfortable, and don't think that because they are comfortable with the QB position that they are happy with losing. DOn't make more out of it than it is.

[Ravage!!!]

http://www.chargers.com/news/article-1/Conference-call-Orton-and-Fox/244af3e3-792f-41c3-9e37-d65f5d67b7e9

I guess that sums up the mystery as to why something was brought up.

Damn, and here I thought Fox was reading our message boards :tsk:

[chazoe60]

You can't expect the guys to be wandering the locker room moping around and angry all the time. They are competitive people. Alpha personalities that hate to lose. Don't just think that BECAUSE they are losing, they are comfortable, and don't think that because they are comfortable with the QB position that they are happy with losing. DOn't make more out of it than it is.

I'm speaking more to the point that these guys shouldn't be comfortable with their jobs.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm speaking more to the point that these guys shouldn't be comfortable with their jobs.

I see. Well, its a long season. These guys right now just need to concentrate and work on getting better rather than worrying about jobs right now. Its 1/4 the season in. I don't think that looking over your shoulder and constantly looking for pink slips is the best motivator.

[jhildebrand]

I guess that sums up the mystery as to why something was brought up.

Damn, and here I thought Fox was reading our message boards :tsk:

Again, what in that question required Fox to address a theory that Orton was handed the job? :confused:

They simply asked to explain it to the average fan. His entire answer BUT the hand it portion would have been fine.

The Broncos have themselves to blame. McDaniels put such a lockdown on any and all information that fans AND media were forced to read between the lines. Elway came in with transparency and competition but that fizzled in areas.

Again, there was a "competition" at CB. Can anyone tell me that Perrish Cox was not better than Nate Jones and Cassius Vaughn? :confused: PLEASE! He was. I thought this was about fielding the best 53 guys so as to appease the vets and keep the LR in order.

[Ravage!!!]

Again, what in that question required Fox to address a theory that Orton was handed the job? :confused:

They simply asked to explain it to the average fan. His entire answer BUT the hand it portion would have been fine.

The Broncos have themselves to blame. McDaniels put such a lockdown on any and all information that fans AND media were forced to read between the lines. Elway came in with transparency and competition but that fizzled in areas.

Again, there was a "competition" at CB. Can anyone tell me that Perrish Cox was not better than Nate Jones and Cassius Vaughn? :confused: PLEASE! He was. I thought this was about fielding the best 53 guys so as to appease the vets and keep the LR in order.

so what is it you are saying jhil? Seriously. I don't get where you are going with this complaint.. or for that matter... what difference it makes. I still don't understand what you are reading into this. He's addressing the question as to why there is NO QB Controversy. Also.. just so you know how those interviews are done. The interviewer and the interviewee... go through the questions first. Many times, the interviewee is given the questions in advance so that he knows what to expect. If Fox and the interviewer talked about the questions, then Fox knew what kind of angle the interviewer was looking for.

I'm just stumped as to what you think is going on. The competition for the QB position was done quickly. You keep bringing up the Washington scenario as if it were the same situation.... its not. Grossman and the other guy were/are CLOSE to one another. Just like the competition between Tebow and Quinn. OTher than that, the comp for the starting job, in Denver, was an easy choice for the coaches, and it didn't need to be stretched out.

There is no hidden conspiracy going on.

[TXBRONC]

Okay, Lan & TX, do you guys think Orton has any credibility? Does he value performing to the his best and winning as a personal legacy?

Or is he taking the money and running, albeit looking for even more? I think the QB of the Denver Broncos takes on a greater responsibility than his own welfare. If you are not up to that standard then get the **** outa town!

Topscribe is only one person qualified to psychoanalyze how much value Kyle Orton places on his legacy and winning. :heh:

J/K :D

Seriously, I woulld assume he values his personal legacy. That said money obviously has a very high importance to him. Like I think it would for most people.

[Agent of Orange]

so what is it you are saying jhil? Seriously. I don't get where you are going with this complaint.. or for that matter... what difference it makes. I still don't understand what you are reading into this. He's addressing the question as to why there is NO QB Controversy. Also.. just so you know how those interviews are done. The interviewer and the interviewee... go through the questions first. Many times, the interviewee is given the questions in advance so that he knows what to expect. If Fox and the interviewer talked about the questions, then Fox knew what kind of angle the interviewer was looking for.

I'm just stumped as to what you think is going on. The competition for the QB position was done quickly. You keep bringing up the Washington scenario as if it were the same situation.... its not. Grossman and the other guy were/are CLOSE to one another. Just like the competition between Tebow and Quinn. OTher than that, the comp for the starting job, in Denver, was an easy choice for the coaches, and it didn't need to be stretched out.

There is no hidden conspiracy going on.

Since when? He is addressing the topic precisely because there is a QB controversy.