Q&A: Not so fast, Broncos fans — John Fox's job is safe

[TXBRONC]

Q&A: Not so fast, Broncos fans — John Fox's job is safe
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 10/05/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT

Q: I know this is going to seem a bit premature, but how long is John Elway going to make us endure the John Fox era before he moves the Broncos in the right direction?

A: It's way too early to think that Elway, in his first season as the Broncos' executive vice president of football operations, would consider any change regarding Fox. Elway has a strong working relationship with Fox, who was Elway's choice to be the team's new coach.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19039545

The same thing happened to McDaniels. You just don't fire a coach after four games.

[MOtorboat]

:tsk:

[Juriga72]

Well.... to be fair to McDummy.... AFTER 4 games he WAS 4-0

[Ravage!!!]

McDick left this team a complete and total disaster. Its wayyyyyyy to early to be talking of firing the coach. McDickhead was left with a pretty solid offense when he came here.

[BigDaddyBronco]

So, just for shits and grins, if we have a 4-12 record this year and a 6-10 record next year does Fox get fired? It would be a worse 2 year stretch than McDaniels.

[The Glue Factory]

Not to mention EFX has to pick up the itty bitty pieces left by the McD bomb going off. Then they need to build a team which will probably include throwing away a lot of those itty bitty pieces they picked up.

At least EFX had a much better draft this year than McD's two combined! To think we got at least 3 starters without having to bounce all over the draft board to get them.

After a 10-22 stretch? Depends on what happens. If 10 or 15 of those 22 are because of a rookie FQB then it's different than Orton being 16 of those 22.

[Mike]

So, just for shits and grins, if we have a 4-12 record this year and a 6-10 record next year does Fox get fired? It would be a worse 2 year stretch than McDaniels.

He probably finishes his contract out here. I think he was brought in to bring composure and maturity to a team in total disarray and to help build a foundation. I don't see him taking the Broncos to the next level, but I think he does well enough to not get fired before the end of his contract.

I wish he would just say no comment instead of answering questions with some kind of dumb bullshit answer though. He is seriously losing ground with his spin jobs.

[MasterShake]

So, just for shits and grins, if we have a 4-12 record this year and a 6-10 record next year does Fox get fired? It would be a worse 2 year stretch than McDaniels.

I guess it all depends. It seems the thing that pushed them over the edge last season to fire him was Spygate II if I recall.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I guess it all depends. It seems the thing that pushed them over the edge last season to fire him was Spygate II if I recall.

That and the way he treated his staff in front of Mr. Bowlen after the Raider loss. I'm sure Bowlen didn't have much love for him after that.

[The Glue Factory]

He probably finishes his contract out here. I think he was brought in to bring composure and maturity to a team in total disarray and to help build a foundation. I don't see him taking the Broncos to the next level, but I think he does well enough to not get fired before the end of his contract.

Exactly my take on the situation. Fox is going to lay a good foundation but isn't good enough to build an elite team. Give him 3 to 5 years and bring in someone else to take us to the promised land. Maybe Dennison if he's available?

[camdisco24]

Fox drives me crazy, always has, and always will. Living in NC, I've been listening to this same stuff for years. That being said, there was never (or rarely) any drama, his players were behind him, and for the most part Carolina was decent when he did things his way. His downfall was lack of support from the FO in his final years.

Fox's press conferences are annoying, he's bland and spins just about everything. Get used to the grin, cause it's not going away. I'll give him time because this mess can't be reversed in one year. That being said, if he refuses to change when the NFL "culture" does, his downfall will come quick. I really hope he at least attempts to think outside the box from time to time.

[tomjonesrocks]

The Broncos are one of the 2-3 worst teams in the NFL thanks to McD's and Bowlen's stupidity, but one of the reasons teams STAY that bad for prolonged periods because they fire their coaches too often.

This season is unwatchable, but outside of the inexplicable Franklin-or-Moore-over-a-DT pick last year's draft looks OK. A few more of those and you can go ahead and fire Fox and get that coach that will take you to the next level.

Before there's more talent on the roster, good luck getting anyone better than Fox to come to Denver. And even if someone better *could* be convinced to take over this hot mess, would Bowlen pay them what they'd demand? Please.

It's crazy frustrating Orton seems to have a death grip on the QB position in Fox's mind, but even with that Fox is not even in the top 5 problems with this team.

[Zweems56]

Anyone calling for Fox's head after 4 games (3 very close ones, and a not so close loss to the undefeated, defending superbowl champs) is, frankly, a ******* retard.

[tomjonesrocks]

Anyone calling for Fox's head after 4 games (3 very close ones, and a not so close loss to the undefeated, defending superbowl champs) is, frankly, a ******* retard.

Yep. Even though I simply refuse to waste any more of my time watching full games until Orton is out of there, am sure even if Tebow gets in there people will still be howling for Fox's head. The cries will just go from "play Tebow!" to "Fox isn't using Tebow properly!"

Even if Tebow was a FCQB starting for this team is not exactly a plum gig (with special thanks from me going to Knowshon "Gain of One" Moreno).

Still, Fox DOES need to make a change at QB. I don't care WHO it is. Just make the change.

[Northman]

Anyone calling for Fox's head after 4 games (3 very close ones, and a not so close loss to the undefeated, defending superbowl champs) is, frankly, a ******* retard.

Thats what happens when fans get frustrated with futility. While i dont agree with calling for his head i can understand the frustration with the team.

[TXBRONC]

So, just for shits and grins, if we have a 4-12 record this year and a 6-10 record next year does Fox get fired? It would be a worse 2 year stretch than McDaniels.

McDaniels wasn't fired for just his record. He was fired for issued that went beyond the team's record.

[TXBRONC]

I guess it all depends. It seems the thing that pushed them over the edge last season to fire him was Spygate II if I recall.

It's not just Spygate II. It's that lied about his involvment in Spygate and he couldn't get along with anyone.

[claymore]

So, just for shits and grins, if we have a 4-12 record this year and a 6-10 record next year does Fox get fired? It would be a worse 2 year stretch than McDaniels.

A coach that shows progress every year in the wins colum is all we can ask for. I dont care if its a slow progression as long as its steady.

[Mike]

A coach that shows progress every year in the wins colum is all we can ask for. I dont care if its a slow progression as long as its steady.

At this point, I will settle for seeing improvement on the field each week and little less monkey humping a football.

Right now that damn monkey is going to town though.

[SOCALORADO.]

A coach that shows progress every year in the wins colum is all we can ask for. I dont care if its a slow progression as long as its steady.

Fox isnt going anywhere. He was hired by Elway specifically.
The problem in DEN is the fans are spoiled. Spoiled by Elway, spoiled by Shananhan, even a little spoiled by Plummer, if you can believe it.
and now, when the team sucks cause it last HC completely dismantled the team in 2 short years, the spoiled fans want an immediate fix.
And since that isnt happening, cant happen, and will not happen, they are all pissed, like a bunch of little, spoiled kids.

This is a 3-4 year re-build folks. Get used to it. Accept it. Deal with it.

[BigDaddyBronco]

McDaniels wasn't fired for just his record. He was fired issued that went beyond the team's record.

I'm just asking the question. :D

[Northman]

Fox isnt going anywhere. He was hired by Elway specifically.
The problem in DEN is the fans are spoiled. Spoiled by Elway, spoiled by Shananhan, even a little spoiled by Plummer, if you can believe it.
and now, when the team sucks cause it last HC completely dismantled the team in 2 short years, the spoiled fans want an immediate fix.
And since that isnt happening, cant happen, and will not happen, they are all pissed, like a bunch of little, spoiled kids.

This is a 3-4 year re-build folks. Get used to it. Accept it. Deal with it.

Thanks dad.

[SOCALORADO.]

Thanks dad.

Now its time to take off that dress Nancy, and END THIS TEA PARTY!

[claymore]

Fox isnt going anywhere. He was hired by Elway specifically.
The problem in DEN is the fans are spoiled. Spoiled by Elway, spoiled by Shananhan, even a little spoiled by Plummer, if you can believe it.
and now, when the team sucks cause it last HC completely dismantled the team in 2 short years, the spoiled fans want an immediate fix.
And since that isnt happening, cant happen, and will not happen, they are all pissed, like a bunch of little, spoiled kids.

This is a 3-4 year re-build folks. Get used to it. Accept it. Deal with it.

You cant be good with bad players. I think we need a new OC, RB coach and probably a new line coach to go with the new offense.

I want this offense blown up.

[Mike]

Fox isnt going anywhere. He was hired by Elway specifically.
The problem in DEN is the fans are spoiled. Spoiled by Elway, spoiled by Shananhan, even a little spoiled by Plummer, if you can believe it.
and now, when the team sucks cause it last HC completely dismantled the team in 2 short years, the spoiled fans want an immediate fix.
And since that isnt happening, cant happen, and will not happen, they are all pissed, like a bunch of little, spoiled kids.

This is a 3-4 year re-build folks. Get used to it. Accept it. Deal with it.

Thanks superfan. Should I go take a piss now too?

[SOCALORADO.]

You cant be good with bad players. I think we need a new OC, RB coach and probably a new line coach to go with the new offense.

I want this offense blown up.

:beer:

[SOCALORADO.]

Thanks superfan. Should I go take a piss now too?

If your like me and you piss excellence, then yeah!:D

[Nomad]

If your like me and you piss excellence, then yeah!:D

Do you hold your "sword" in your hand with 2 fingers up huming the USC song?!?:lol:

[BigDaddyBronco]

You cant be good with bad players. I think we need a new OC, RB coach and probably a new line coach to go with the new offense.

I want this offense blown up.

Shanny had good players for his system, but not too many guys that could go out and play on other teams. His system allowed him to draft some needed positions lower in the draft allowing him to take defensive players and WR's and some other skill players higher in the draft. If he could have drafted worth a shit they would have had more good playoff teams IMO.

Now, I think we are getting some players that could play on other teams and in other systems, but I'm not sure if the Broncos have a system more than "get the best players possible and we'll see what we can do". I mean we have an offense that has aspects of a spread, but with a focus on the run? What? Our Oline has tried so many different things the last few years that they look lost and confused.

I would like to see the Broncos adopt a known system and build their draft strategy around that system. I don't care if it's a Tampa 2 or 3-4 defense or ZBS or spread, just pick something and find the players for it. I think it makes drafting and salary cap strategy easier, finding assistant coaches easier, etc.

[slim]

Fox isnt going anywhere. He was hired by Elway specifically.
The problem in DEN is the fans are spoiled. Spoiled by Elway, spoiled by Shananhan, even a little spoiled by Plummer, if you can believe it.
and now, when the team sucks cause it last HC completely dismantled the team in 2 short years, the spoiled fans want an immediate fix.
And since that isnt happening, cant happen, and will not happen, they are all pissed, like a bunch of little, spoiled kids.

This is a 3-4 year re-build folks. Get used to it. Accept it. Deal with it.

I could accept it a lot easier if they would stop pretending like they are not rebuilding and bench the worthless vets in favor of the kids.

[SOCALORADO.]

I could accept it a lot easier if they would stop pretending like they are not rebuilding and bench the worthless vets in favor of the kids.

I know, i know. But i figure the seasons a loss.
I mean seriously, DEN aint going anywhere, i dont sign checks in DEN, so F it.
I'm gonna enjoy watching the season, and when folks ask me i just laugh and say,
"Suck4Luck"

[claymore]

Shanny had good players for his system, but not too many guys that could go out and play on other teams. His system allowed him to draft some needed positions lower in the draft allowing him to take defensive players and WR's and some other skill players higher in the draft. If he could have drafted worth a shit they would have had more good playoff teams IMO.

Now, I think we are getting some players that could play on other teams and in other systems, but I'm not sure if the Broncos have a system more than "get the best players possible and we'll see what we can do". I mean we have an offense that has aspects of a spread, but with a focus on the run? What? Our Oline has tried so many different things the last few years that they look lost and confused.

I would like to see the Broncos adopt a known system and build their draft strategy around that system. I don't care if it's a Tampa 2 or 3-4 defense or ZBS or spread, just pick something and find the players for it. I think it makes drafting and salary cap strategy easier, finding assistant coaches easier, etc.

I agree a 100%. Our offense doesnt do anything well.

We need an identity. We need to be able to maximize the later rounds in the draft by taking oddball players that fit our system.

[SOCALORADO.]

Do you hold your "sword" in your hand with 2 fingers up huming the USC song?!?:lol:

*sighs* i freakin hate that damn song.
Again, and again all damn game.
And it will never change. Oh well.

[Nomad]

I could accept it a lot easier if they would stop pretending like they are not rebuilding and bench the worthless vets in favor of the kids.

slim, you've summed it up perfectly.

[BroncoStud]

I could accept it a lot easier if they would stop pretending like they are not rebuilding and bench the worthless vets in favor of the kids.

Yep.

[Mike]

I agree a 100%. Our offense doesnt do anything well.

We need an identity. We need to be able to maximize the later rounds in the draft by taking oddball players that fit our system.

As with identity...do we really even have a system? :confused:

[Thnikkaman]

So, just for shits and grins, if we have a 4-12 record this year and a 6-10 record next year does Fox get fired? It would be a worse 2 year stretch than McDaniels.

It all depends if Fox starts having people tape our opponents practices and gets in fights with the players.

[DenBronx]

The losses shouldnt fall on Fox this year.

He inherited a pile of crap as far as I'm concerned. He will have at least 2-3 years, even if we are still losing.

And hiring John Fox wasn't just soley Elways decision.

[BigDaddyBronco]

It all depends if Fox starts having people tape our opponents practices and gets in fights with the players.

So he can have another 2 years at 7-9 and 8-8....

No, I agree, I think Fox will have a much loner rope since he isn't a complete douchebag. I just don't know if that longer rope will ever get this team over the hump.

[Bosco]

Shanny had good players for his system, but not too many guys that could go out and play on other teams. His system allowed him to draft some needed positions lower in the draft allowing him to take defensive players and WR's and some other skill players higher in the draft. If he could have drafted worth a shit they would have had more good playoff teams IMO.

Now, I think we are getting some players that could play on other teams and in other systems, but I'm not sure if the Broncos have a system more than "get the best players possible and we'll see what we can do". I mean we have an offense that has aspects of a spread, but with a focus on the run? What? Our Oline has tried so many different things the last few years that they look lost and confused.

I would like to see the Broncos adopt a known system and build their draft strategy around that system. I don't care if it's a Tampa 2 or 3-4 defense or ZBS or spread, just pick something and find the players for it. I think it makes drafting and salary cap strategy easier, finding assistant coaches easier, etc.

This is the inevitable clash between McCoy and Fox's philosophies. McCoy should have been left to run the offense as he saw fit and had learned from Josh for two years. In Fox wanted to take an active role in the offense and dictate a conservative, run heavy scheme, then he should have let McCoy walk and hired a different OC who also had that philosophy.

[claymore]

As with identity...do we really even have a system? :confused:

Its an offshoot of the McDaniels 3 & Out system. It produces the same results though.

[Slick]

If he's still playing veterans over young kids that need reps after we are mathematically eliminated, then i think we have a gripe. Until then, I agree with SOCAL. We're just going to have to suck it up. As frustrated as we all are, a professional coach has to try to win games. I don't like it either guys, but I wouldn't expect anything less.

[BroncoStud]

I think Mike McCoy sucks, just my opinion, not shared by everyone I'm sure, but he hasn't shown me anything that leads me to believe he has any ability to call a good game. I'm not sure what you would call our offense... Under Shanahan we usually outschemed our opponents on offense, not always, but most of the time. I don't really know what the 2011 Denver Broncos offense is supposed to be.

[slim]

If he's still playing veterans over young kids that need reps after we are mathematically eliminated, then i think we have a gripe. Until then, I agree with SOCAL. We're just going to have to suck it up. As frustrated as we all are, a professional coach has to try to win games. I don't like it either guys, but I wouldn't expect anything less.

At that point I think the FO would have to force a change. I can't imagine they would let that slide.

[claymore]

I think Mike McCoy sucks, just my opinion, not shared by everyone I'm sure, but he hasn't shown me anything that leads me to believe he has any ability to call a good game. I'm not sure what you would call our offense... Under Shanahan we usually outschemed our opponents on offense, not always, but most of the time. I don't really know what the 2011 Denver Broncos offense is supposed to be.

I agree a 100%. I dont give 2 squirts about FA's next year. I want quality coaches. I want some talent on the sidelines. Other than Tebow. :laugh:

[Northman]

If he's still playing veterans over young kids that need reps after we are mathematically eliminated, then i think we have a gripe. Until then, I agree with SOCAL. We're just going to have to suck it up. As frustrated as we all are, a professional coach has to try to win games. I don't like it either guys, but I wouldn't expect anything less.

Oh, i would say Carolina and Cincy are trying to win games too.

[Bosco]

I think Mike McCoy sucks, just my opinion, not shared by everyone I'm sure, but he hasn't shown me anything that leads me to believe he has any ability to call a good game. I'm not sure what you would call our offense... Under Shanahan we usually outschemed our opponents on offense, not always, but most of the time. I don't really know what the 2011 Denver Broncos offense is supposed to be.

I definitely think McCoy is subpar at best, but Fox is too active in the offensive game planning for me to really start making judgement calls on him. As for our offense? Well, it's an Erhardt-Perkins variant, but it's run like this is the 1980's.

[Lancane]

Fox drives me crazy, always has, and always will. Living in NC, I've been listening to this same stuff for years. That being said, there was never (or rarely) any drama, his players were behind him, and for the most part Carolina was decent when he did things his way.

Actually Cam, doing things his way caused the team to seep with mediocrity more then find success. Other then that you hit the nail on the head - 'The Same Stuff', he's unable to evolve with the change of the league and is too stubborn to realize that he's hindering himself and his players.


His downfall was lack of support from the FO in his final years.
Of course he wasn't supported by the front office, if you don't listen to what your bosses want then you'll lose their support and end up without a job as well...but he did it to himself, Richardson nor Hurley did anything on purpose the strife that developed between them was caused by his refusal to change.


Fox's press conferences are annoying, he's bland and spins just about everything. Get used to the grin, cause it's not going away. I'll give him time because this mess can't be reversed in one year. That being said, if he refuses to change when the NFL "culture" does, his downfall will come quick. I really hope he at least attempts to think outside the box from time to time.

I agree Cam, I don't care about boring or bland pressers, or lame ass grins for that matter. And I know he can not fix the mess in one season, I don't think anyone expected him to...unless they're nuts! No, it's his refusal to change, to understand and therein adapt to the current NFL, he's instilled the same conservative offense that failed so miserably in Carolina and that screams that he's not learning from his own mistakes.

[Slick]

Oh, i would say Carolina and Cincy are trying to win games too.

Two completely different situations man. One had their veteran retire, the other has the number one pick in the draft.

I dont like it anymore than you do but it's going to be a while before we see carter, irving, tebow or quinn.

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[Poet]

Well, I'd fire him because he was a bad hire in the first place.

But other than that, I feel you.

[Northman]

Two completely different situations man. Both teams have rookie head coaches. One had their veteran retire, the other has the number one pick in the draft.

I dont like it anymore than you do but it's going to be a while before we see carter, irving, tebow or quinn.

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I dont think they are that different honestly. Look at St. Louis and Detroit, both of them are rebuilding and threw their guys into the fire. Indy did it back with Peyton, etc. While im sure it will be a while before we seen any of them i think considering our situation its the wrong move honestly. At least in terms of the QB position.

[Cugel]

So, just for shits and grins, if we have a 4-12 record this year and a 6-10 record next year does Fox get fired? It would be a worse 2 year stretch than McDaniels.

NO!!! Fox didn't start out with Jay Cutler, Peyton Hillis, Ryan Torain, Tony Sheffler, and Brandon Marshall on offense along with a ZBS that allowed the team to effectively rush the ball. (Just imagine how good this Broncos team would be if they still had those players)!

He started out with almost nothing.

Hypothetical: In 4 years the Broncos win the SB.

Question: How many players on the current roster are starters on that SB winning team?

Answer:

Defense
Champ Bailey (assuming he's still playing at a high level -- possibly starting at S by then)
Von Miller
Elvis Dumervil
Rahim Moore (possibly)


Offense
Brandon Lloyd (maybe)
Eric Decker (possibly continues to develop into a fine WR)
Ryan Clady
Orlando Franklin (possibly)

That's EIGHT players out of 22 starters currently on the roster leaving them to find 14 new players!

(And NO! Tim Tebow doesn't count)! :coffee:

And how many of those players were drafted/acquired by McMoron? ONE! Decker. The man had FOUR first round draft picks in two years and utterly wasted them all!

[Cugel]

Fox isnt going anywhere. He was hired by Elway specifically.
The problem in DEN is the fans are spoiled. Spoiled by Elway, spoiled by Shananhan, even a little spoiled by Plummer, if you can believe it.
and now, when the team sucks cause it last HC completely dismantled the team in 2 short years, the spoiled fans want an immediate fix.
And since that isnt happening, cant happen, and will not happen, they are all pissed, like a bunch of little, spoiled kids.

This is a 3-4 year re-build folks. Get used to it. Accept it. Deal with it.

I saw this coming back in 2009. I knew then what is obvious now, that McDaniels was going to destroy this franchise and set it back a minimum of 5 years. Fans are just going to have to be patient and stop dreaming that "just putting Tebow in" is going to fix anything.

Well, 2009, 2010 -- wasted years while McDaniels demolished the team.

2011 -- they hire a new coach who has to come in and find the cupboard utterly barren of talent. He acquires 3 starters in the draft and starts the rebuilding process. The defense shows signs of improvement.

2012, 2013 the team is rebuilding with a rookie QB.

Realistically, hiring a disaster as head coach/GM set us back a minimum of 6 years.

So, Fox won't be under any serious fire unless the team fails to show any signs of improvement in 2012. And that is very unlikely.

He's showing signs of improvement on defense already. The offense still sucks, but once they get rid of Orton and Tebow and draft a franchise QB that can start to change too!

Just look what Cam Newton is doing for the woeful Panthers this year and what Matt Stafford has done for the endless sad-sack Lions! (along with Suh of course).

[Cugel]

I dont think they are that different honestly. Look at St. Louis and Detroit, both of them are rebuilding and threw their guys into the fire. Indy did it back with Peyton, etc. While im sure it will be a while before we seen any of them i think considering our situation its the wrong move honestly. At least in terms of the QB position.

Those teams had great QBs. Denver has SQUAT at QB.

Anybody who thinks Tebow is going to be the long-term answer at QB hasn't been paying any attention to his inability to run a pro-style offense and just assumes "he'll learn. He's always succeeded in the past."

Well, so what? Every player in the NFL was a star in college. Many of them fail in the pros. Tim doesn't have the basic skill set to be a great NFL QB.

But, go on believing in him if you like. All his failings in trying to execute his 3 or 5 step drop and reading defenses and trying to throw an accurate pass, will soon be on display when he starts by game 10-11.

So, it will be blindingly clear by January 2012 that he's not the answer. :coffee:

[Northman]

Those teams had great QBs. Denver has SQUAT at QB.

No shit sherlock.


Anybody who thinks Tebow is going to be the long-term answer at QB hasn't been paying any attention to his inability to run a pro-style offense and just assumes "he'll learn. He's always succeeded in the past."

Well, so what? Every player in the NFL was a star in college. Many of them fail in the pros. Tim doesn't have the basic skill set to be a great NFL QB.

I never said he would be the longterm answer. Not sure where you got that idea or just blowing it out your ass as usual. As too his success as a QB we dont know that after just 3 games. I could post up the examples YET AGAIN of where NO QB has been written off after 3 games but i think you would just be oblivious to it as usual.


But, go on believing in him if you like. [/B][/COLOR]All his failings in trying to execute his 3 or 5 step drop and reading defenses and trying to throw an accurate pass, will soon be on display when he starts by game 10-11.

So, it will be blindingly clear by January 2012 that he's not the answer. :coffee:

If he comes in and fails than we draft a new QB in 2012. But, if by some grace of god he succeeds and wins a few games and proves you wrong i guess you will say you knew it all the time right. :lol:

[Bosco]

Realistically, hiring a disaster as head coach/GM set us back a minimum of 6 years.

I always have to laugh at these posts. Teams go from worst in the league to division winners all the time (see 2008 Dolphins and 2010 Chiefs) yet the Broncos, not even the worst team in 2010, are going to need over half a decade to regroup.

Solid logic, no doubt.

[Lancane]

I always have to laugh at these posts. Teams go from worst in the league to division winners all the time (see 2008 Dolphins and 2010 Chiefs) yet the Broncos, not even the worst team in 2010, are going to need over half a decade to regroup.

Solid logic, no doubt.

Unless you have a front office that's truly inept, then there is no excuse to take five years to fix a roster and to have a solid offense and defense instilled...and if by chance it does take that long then someone needs to realize that they are going about it the wrong way.

When you realize that there is a solid core group that's maintainable...the object for the Broncos and Coach Fox will be to tweak the roster, and to continue to build through the draft and free agency, and possibly instill a new offense under a new coordinator.

[TXBRONC]

Unless you have a front office that's truly inept, then there is no excuse to take five years to fix a roster and to have a solid offense and defense instilled...and if by chance it does take that long then someone needs to realize that they are going about it the wrong way.

When you realize that there is a solid core group that's maintainable...the object for the Broncos and Coach Fox will be to tweak the roster, and to continue to build through the draft and free agency, and possibly instill a new offense under a new coordinator.

In some of things I've read it's been suggested that Elway thinks it will take about three years to rebuild this team into a consistent contender.

[BroncoStud]

I always have to laugh at these posts. Teams go from worst in the league to division winners all the time (see 2008 Dolphins and 2010 Chiefs) yet the Broncos, not even the worst team in 2010, are going to need over half a decade to regroup.

Solid logic, no doubt.

Cugel throws out his absolutism like it's gospel, when in truth he's accurate maybe 10% of the time, and that's only because he's throwing enough crap at the wall that something sticks.

[Canmore]

In some of things I've read it's been suggested that Elway thinks it will take about three years to rebuild this team into a consistent contender.

Yes teams have gone from last to first but except for Manning and the Colts I can't remember anyone staying there. Three years sounds about right. I'd like to think we get a francise quarterback and stay there.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I was (before he got here) and still am a fan of Fox. Honestly, I think he was the best coach available this year that actually wanted to coach the Broncos. people can piss and moan about Harbaugh, Gruden, and Cowher, but they just weren't coming here no matter how much money we offered.

Fox is a mature player's coach who has had success with a small market, tight-fisted franchise. His teams weren't always in the playoffs and weren't always contenders for the NFC South, but he did a pretty good job of turning chicken shit into chicken salad talent-wise in Carolina.

He, like McDouchebag did, gets two years to at least try to get us to .500 again. I don't like how he's handling the Tebow situation thus far, but everything else has been okay with me.

[Lancane]

In some of things I've read it's been suggested that Elway thinks it will take about three years to rebuild this team into a consistent contender.

That would be a safe estimation, but Elway hasn't accounted for mistakes in hiring coaches, not Fox per say, but McCoy and so forth. If we're talking about a competitive roster, then three years is a safe bet, particularly if you're building through the draft. But horrid decisions in regards to coaching staff can set a team back just as much.

I am not Anti-Fox by any means, but he is too incompetent and doesn't learn from his mistakes and that bothers the hell out of me. I will see what happens after the season in regards to the staff, if we keep Mike McCoy and the same offense as we have now, then I am not going to be as optimistic far from it...because it's already proven to be ineffective and tremendously flawed just like our offensive coordinator.

[claymore]

That would be a safe estimation, but Elway hasn't accounted for mistakes in hiring coaches, not Fox per say, but McCoy and so forth. If we're talking about a competitive roster, then three years is a safe bet, particularly if you're building through the draft. But horrid decisions in regards to coaching staff can set a team back just as much.

I am not Anti-Fox by any means, but he is too incompetent and doesn't learn from his mistakes and that bothers the hell out of me. I will see what happens after the season in regards to the staff, if we keep Mike McCoy and the same offense as we have now, then I am not going to be as optimistic far from it...because it's already proven to be ineffective and tremendously flawed just like our offensive coordinator.
I’m ok with some of our coaches staying as long as there isn’t a suitable replacement available.

No sense in turning everyone over if there isn’t an upgrade to the position.

I’m all for a slow, steady improvement of this team. Minimize disruption (unlike McD), maximize continuity, and cohesiveness. This time next year it should look like a plan has begun to take root.

Doing the hard right never pays off right away. IMO.

[TXBRONC]

That would be a safe estimation, but Elway hasn't accounted for mistakes in hiring coaches, not Fox per say, but McCoy and so forth. If we're talking about a competitive roster, then three years is a safe bet, particularly if you're building through the draft. But horrid decisions in regards to coaching staff can set a team back just as much.

I am not Anti-Fox by any means, but he is too incompetent and doesn't learn from his mistakes and that bothers the hell out of me. I will see what happens after the season in regards to the staff, if we keep Mike McCoy and the same offense as we have now, then I am not going to be as optimistic far from it...because it's already proven to be ineffective and tremendously flawed just like our offensive coordinator.

That's a fair point but at the same time you can only do so much with talent you have to work with.

[Canmore]

That's a fair point but at the same time you can only do so much with talent you have to work with.

Or lack thereof.

[Lancane]

That's a fair point but at the same time you can only do so much with talent you have to work with.

True, but then you excuse a coach or a flawed system and philosophy in the process. I would rather have a team half as talented as others and better coached with an even better system, then just as much talent but piss poor coaching or a screwed scheme instilled because talent can't always make up for the fatal flaws. We should understand that best of all, after all we had half as much talent but solid coaching and we saw a fair number of Super Bowls, Division Titles, and even AFC Championships under Reeves; the difference between Dan Reeves' Broncos and the team we have now is that the current roster is probably more talented, we just don't have the quarterback and the system we're using is flawed under a questionable coordinator. If we had a franchise quarterback and Dan Reeves' offense with the talent we have right now...we would be a favorite to win the Super Bowl. John Madden led several lesser talented teams to the AFC Championship and even to the Super Bowl, heck - look at what Shanahan accomplished at times because of the right offensive system and coaching. Do you think this offense would be as bad if Shanahan was here right now...even without Cutler and Marshall? Do you think that Moreno would look like a bust or that people would be bitching about the offensive line? I don't!

John Fox wants to win a Super Bowl, I have no doubts about that whatsoever, but he wants to win it his way which has already been proven to be flawed, Carolina has continually been mediocre is several facets of the game and that's what he's brought with the slightest change if any at all. If John Fox realizes that McCoy is not the right coach and the system is flawed, and looks to fix it, then I would be more optimistic and would feel this team was headed in the right direction. But a 'Bend don't break' defense like we have doesn't work without a competent offense, and the offense is far from that.