High school and college dont count? REALLY? yall gonna love this shit.

[Bullgator]

To expand on my point that Kyle has ALWAYS been a loser here are some stats when he was in high school...

His career passing statistics were 208 for 450 (46.2%), 3,176 yards with 24 touchdowns, and 18 interceptions. He earned honorable mention all-state(IN IOWA FFS) and first team all-conference his senior year, after completing 95 of 192 attempts (49.5%), 1,366 yards with 12 touchdowns, and 5 interceptions.... he didnt win SHIT in high school, in a SHITTY football state.

how about his college career you say?

In 2004, Orton was the preseason third-team "All-American" quarterback, behind USC's Matt Leinart and Oklahoma's Jason White. Orton had a nice start to the season, having led Purdue to a 5-0 start with 18 touchdowns and no interceptions. He was a Heisman Trophy hopeful, until his fumble was run back for a touchdown late in the 4th quarter against the undefeated 12th ranked Wisconsin Badgers, giving the 5th ranked Purdue its first of several losses that season. Later that season, he received multiple injuries, in consecutive games against Michigan and Northwestern forcing him to lose his starting position for a month. Brandon Kirsch then replaced him during that time.

any of this shit sound familiar? LOL over hyped then shit the bed EPIC style and was benched because he got hurt.....

wait what about his pro career? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? you know all about Chicago (Orton finished with the lowest quarterback rating in the NFL (59.7) among all "qualified" quarterbacks (those with 224+ pass attempts).and im almost certain you know about the abortion that is happening weekly in Denver...

dont you tell me what you did in high school and college dont matter this ****** has made millions off peoples hard earned dollars by stumbling, bumbling and fumbling his way through out every phase of his career!!!!

How in the hell anyone can even remotely defend this guy is beyond me. Trade Tebow, Bench Kyle and start Quinn!!!!!!!! or me!!!

[BroncoBJ]

Are you trying to start a debate or argument? I'm pretty sure everyone on this site knows that Orton is garbage. :coffee:

[Chris90210]

have any information about his long ball in college? lol

[claymore]

Mods please move all of Gators threads to the smack area because he talks shit about every Bronco except Tebow.

[Zweems56]

mods please move all of gators threads to the smack area because he talks shit about every bronco except tebow.

qft

[Ravage!!!]

wow... now this is lame.

[camdisco24]

So Bull... how do you feel about the defense?

[silkamilkamonico]

That's nothing compared to his middle school stats. Check this out;

7th grade - 4 receptions for 15 yards, AND a fumble.
8th grade - Team Mascot
9th grade - 6-21, 39 yds, 43 rushes 137 yards, (2-6 record).

[BroncoNut]

I don't see the point of this thread? I spent little time on this op, but orton had shitty stats in a shitty football state and is a shitty qb in the NFL? How does that not align?

[Northman]

I don't see the point of this thread? I spent little time on this op, but orton had shitty stats in a shitty football state and is a shitty qb in the NFL? How does that not align?

He's trying to make the claim that because Tebow was good in College that it will translate to the NFL "automatically". He was using the stats of Orton to show that Orton still sucked hence the comparison. Its a poor arguement but i know that is where he was going with it.

[Nomad]

I don't see the point of this thread? I spent little time on this op, but orton had shitty stats in a shitty football state and is a shitty qb in the NFL? How does that not align?

I thought Iowa was all about the high school football. What else is there to do.....all the crops are harvested?!?

[BroncoNut]

I thought Iowa was all about the high school football. What else is there to do.....all the crops are harvested?!?

big in wrestling. when the crops are harvested we make love to our women

[Nomad]

big in wrestling. when the crops are harvested we make love to our women

Yeah, I had a friend move to Iowa when we were in the 8th grade and kept in touch for a couple years afterward, but he was really into the wrestling when he moved there. They didn't have wrestling at my high school.

Did you take your women into those John Deere's or they wouldn't fit:D?!?

[Bullgator]

the point is you are what you are. Im sorry but KO will never be that guy. Not his fault...seems like a good guy just trying to make a living, but he will never be what Fox is trying to make him be cuz its just not in his make up.. this is just a huge waste of our rebuilding time.

This was more for clay and rav and their ilk who just want to sweep Tim under the rug.

Kyle is what he is and so is Tim... will that mean he will be an "auto success" like north says im saying? no... but its enough to at least see what he can do IN GAME in a shitty rebuilding year.

you cant compare a guy that was unable to win at every level and was prone to turning the ball over and getting hurt all the time with a guy that won at every level and only missed one game his whole career due to injury and infact scored a 20 yard TD on a broken leg.. you cant teach that shit... a guy that had 145 TD with 15 ints thats a SICK ratio!! Clay i get that you hate me and you hate the Teboners and (in your mind)rightfully so but dont you at least want to SEE in 10 games or so what the **** all the hububb is about? dont you want to see for yourself instead of being told like a lemming?

Cam...as for our D... Champ and Dawkins need to go... love em but they are too old to be featured n a passing league in an even more passing year. love em but gotta get younger faster upgrades there.

doom is made of balsa wood, and our entire D line is hurt for that matter... our LB are shitty coverage LB and were put in place to help stop the run thanks to our shitty tackles... of course VM is the best player on this team much less D and our schemes suck because they dont account the players we have to run said scheme... we need to play more zone and keep the ball in front of us... we need to bend between the 20s and play tighter in the red zone where our slow ass LB and safeties have less real estate to get burned.. bend but dont break is unfortunately our best bet.... not man coverage...

[Thnikkaman]

I thought Iowa was all about the high school football. What else is there to do.....all the crops are harvested?!?

Produce Meth.

[claymore]

the point is you are what you are. Im sorry but KO will never be that guy. Not his fault...seems like a good guy just trying to make a living, but he will never be what Fox is trying to make him be cuz its just not in his make up.. this is just a huge waste of our rebuilding time.

This was more for clay and rav and their ilk who just want to sweep Tim under the rug.

Kyle is what he is and so is Tim... will that mean he will be an "auto success" like north says im saying? no... but its enough to at least see what he can do IN GAME in a shitty rebuilding year.

you cant compare a guy that was unable to win at every level and was prone to turning the ball over and getting hurt all the time with a guy that won at every level and only missed one game his whole career due to injury and infact scored a 20 yard TD on a broken leg.. you cant teach that shit... a guy that had 145 TD with 15 ints thats a SICK ratio!! Clay i get that you hate me and you hate the Teboners and (in your mind)rightfully so but dont you at least want to SEE in 10 games or so what the **** all the hububb is about? dont you want to see for yourself instead of being told like a lemming?

Cam...as for our D... Champ and Dawkins need to go... love em but they are too old to be featured n a passing league in an even more passing year. love em but gotta get younger faster upgrades there.

doom is made of balsa wood, and our entire D line is hurt for that matter... our LB are shitty coverage LB and were put in place to help stop the run thanks to our shitty tackles... of course VM is the best player on this team much less D and our schemes suck because they dont account the players we have to run said scheme... we need to play more zone and keep the ball in front of us... we need to bend between the 20s and play tighter in the red zone where our slow ass LB and safeties have less real estate to get burned.. bend but dont break is unfortunately our best bet.... not man coverage...

Well you failed because I think Orton sucks. Just not as bad a s QUin and Tebow.

I want all of our QB's gone next year minus Weber.

[Bullgator]

Well you failed because I think Orton sucks. Just not as bad a s QUin and Tebow.

I want all of our QB's gone next year minus Weber.

fair enough dood... I think your just spiteful about Teebs... hes not been given a chance to suck in a real game and by all accounts he played well when he was in.. so IDK where you opinion is coming from other than your hatred for his fans and the political/religious circus surrounding him... what that has to do with football I have no idea.

but fair enough... you will undoubtedly get your wish... at least about TT... I think he will be traded... Fox is done with the circus and this week at mile high will be the last straw.. when KO throws an int and he will that place is going to quake with TT chants... after this week you will have to play TT or tradehim... Fox being the old goat that he is will push to trade him.

[claymore]

fair enough dood... I think your just spiteful about Teebs... hes not been given a chance to suck in a real game and by all accounts he played well when he was in.. so IDK where you opinion is coming from other than your hatred for his fans and the political/religious circus surrounding him... what that has to do with football I have no idea.

but fair enough... you will undoubtedly get your wish... at least about TT... I think he will be traded... Fox is done with the circus and this week at mile high will be the last straw.. when KO throws an int and he will that place is going to quake with TT chants... after this week you will have to play TT or tradehim... Fox being the old goat that he is will push to trade him.

I like Tebow. The fans are annoying. I just dont think he is the best QB on our team. In the end, thats all I care about. If he cant beat out Klye suck ass Orton out in practice, then Ive seen all I need to see.

I want my franchise QB to beat Orton out in practice. Orton sucks. He sucks at practice and in real life games.

[vandammage13]

I like Tebow. The fans are annoying. I just dont think he is the best QB on our team. In the end, thats all I care about. If he cant beat out Klye suck ass Orton out in practice, then Ive seen all I need to see.

I want my franchise QB to beat Orton out in practice. Orton sucks. He sucks at practice and in real life games.

I agree that you would rather Tebow just have beaten out Orton straight up in TC. You would hope he would just show he is head and shoulders above a shitty QB in practice.

But can't we agree that sometimes a player just isn't given a fair shake in winning the job?...

I mean, sometimes a guy is just handed the #1 job just based on contract, experience, being the incumbent, etc...Think about Trent Green/Kurt Warner. Trent Green was the heralded starter going into what would become a magical run by the Rams, but once Warner got in he lit it up beyond what this league had seen before.

Why didn't they see this potential in practice?...Trent Green has never once had a season close to matching the production that Warner had. Why did that coaching staff not see what they had in Warner?

Same thing with Tom Brady...what was going on in practice that they couldn't see he was better than Bledsoe?

Orton's sharpness in practices have been well documented...for whatever reason he looks good in practice but just doesn't perform the same come gametime.

Basically from day 1 of TC, once it was clear that the Orton trade was dead, he got all of the #1 reps. Don't you think that Orton is going to look better than Tebow/Quinn in practice when he is throwing to guys that he knows, while Tebow/Quinn are throwing to guys that have never even played in an NFL game.

Sometimes a guy just needs to get his shot. My guess is that there are a couple of Brady's/Warner's riding the pine accross this league that will never be because they simply never get a shot.

[TXBRONC]

I don't care what Orton did in high school or college because it doesn't mean squat for the pros. So he wasn't that great in high school and college big deal. The history of the NFL is chalked full of Tebow like quarterbacks whose shit didn't stink in high school or college and yet they weren't worth spit in the NFL.

Bull you complained in last week in a thread that Broncos fans on this board are crap because they don't treat you well. Going back through the argument of whether or not high school and college stats mean jack shit for the NFL for the umteenth time wont change minds. This seems like you're trying to bait people once again so that you complain how cruel and dumb the Broncos fan base is for not accepting your view that Tebow is next best thing since sliced bread.

I don't what the exact percentages are would bet about half if not a majority of the Broncos fan base thinks should have a chance to prove himself. They wont commit to saying he is absolutely the future but they are willing to give him chance. Why is that so hard for you to accept?

[claymore]

I agree that you would rather Tebow just have beaten out Orton straight up in TC. You would hope he would just show he is head and shoulders above a shitty QB in practice.

But can't we agree that sometimes a player just isn't given a fair shake in winning the job?...

I mean, sometimes a guy is just handed the #1 job just based on contract, experience, being the incumbent, etc...Think about Trent Green/Kurt Warner. Trent Green was the heralded starter going into that magical run by the Rams, but once Warner got in he lit it up.

Why didn't they see this potential in practice?...Trent Green has never once had a season close to matching the production that Warner had. Why did that coaching staff not see what they had in Warner?

Same thing with Tom Brady...what was going on in practice that they couldn't see he was better than Bledsoe?

Orton's sharpness in practice have been well documented...for whatever reason he looks good in practice but just doesn't perform the same come gametime.

Basically from day 1 of TC, once it was clear that the Orton trade was dead, he got all of the #1 reps. Don't you think that Orton is going to look better than Tebow/Quinn in practice when he is throwing to guys that he knows, while Tebow/Quinn are throwing to guys that have never even played in an NFL game.

Sometimes a guy just needs to get his shot. My guess is that there are a couple of Brady's/Warner's riding the pine accross this league that will never be because they simply never get a shot.

I think we can all agree that at the minimum he was given a fair shot to beat out Brady Quin for the # 2 position. He couldnt even do that.

Brady Quin is worse than Kyle Orton. Way worse.

I want my Future FQB to be able to beat out shitty QB's.

[Thnikkaman]

I like Tebow. The fans are annoying. I just dont think he is the best QB on our team. In the end, thats all I care about. If he cant beat out Klye suck ass Orton out in practice, then Ive seen all I need to see.

I want my franchise QB to beat Orton out in practice. Orton sucks. He sucks at practice and in real life games.

Regardless of what quarterbacks/players you are talking about, this is dumb. Alan Iverson did have some validity in his practice rant. You can't simulate the defense coming to take your head off after you snap the ball in practice in such a way that the immediacy and adrenaline is going to be the same as in game time.

I want my franchise QB to be able to make plays during a game when the game is on the line. I want him to have good instinctual play, and not hone in on one or two guys. I want him to be able to see that the play that the OC called is crap and audible so that we don't lose a down.

I don't know if Quinn or Tebow can do this. Orton sure as hell can't. He's a great practice QB, and I'd love to have him as my QB if I'm playing flag football. But in full contact sports, he's a headcase. More worried about getting hurt than getting the job done.

[vandammage13]

I think we can all agree that at the minimum he was given a fair shot to beat out Brady Quin for the # 2 position. He couldnt even do that.

Brady Quin is worse than Kyle Orton. Way worse.

I want my Future FQB to be able to beat out shitty QB's.

Once again politics could have played a part in this....The FO is not blind to the fan support for Tebow.

Once it was decided that Orton was who they were going with, they needed to do whatever they could to temper the enthusiasm for Tebow.

Unfortunately for them, Tebow's performances in the Preseason games, where the majority of fans could actually see, were better than Quinn's.

[TXBRONC]

Regardless of what quarterbacks/players you are talking about, this is dumb. Alan Iverson did have some validity in his practice rant. You can't simulate the defense coming to take your head off after you snap the ball in practice in such a way that the immediacy and adrenaline is going to be the same as in game time.

I want my franchise QB to be able to make plays during a game when the game is on the line. I want him to have good instinctual play, and not hone in on one or two guys. I want him to be able to see that the play that the OC called is crap and audible so that we don't lose a down.

I don't know if Quinn or Tebow can do this. Orton sure as hell can't. He's a great practice QB, and I'd love to have him as my QB if I'm playing flag football. But in full contact sports, he's a headcase. More worried about getting hurt than getting the job done.

Flag football? If rushing the quarterback is allowed then you're still pretty much in the same situation.

[cuzz4169]

I have coached college baseball for 7 yrs. We have what you call 5 oclock hitters, guys who look great in practice but get in the game and shit themselves. We have guys in practice who get in the cage and think to much and pop out or pound the ball into the ground. When in the game he rips the ball, No thinking just playing. I'm sure this relates to other sports. People who have followed the Gators know tebow doesn't look pretty in practice. But on game day he has always been magical.

[claymore]

Once again politics could have played a part in this....The FO is not blind to the fan support for Tebow.

Once it was decided that Orton was who they were going with, they needed to do whatever they could to temper the enthusiasm for Tebow.

Unfortunately for them, Tebow's performances in the Preseason games, where the majority of fans could actually see, were better than Quinn's.

Why would the Broncos stiffle the love of one of their players? I know Quinns last game was bad. Tebows wasnt much better. I cant look up the stats for the other games, but I thought Quin looked better. i could be wrong though.

[Northman]

I think we can all agree that at the minimum he was given a fair shot to beat out Brady Quin for the # 2 position. He couldnt even do that.

Brady Quin is worse than Kyle Orton. Way worse.

I want my Future FQB to be able to beat out shitty QB's.

If Luck had to use 2nd and third 3 string backups to try and make an impression of beating Orton who used only the starters Orton would still be your starter. It doesnt matter what QB was playing on this team during practice. None of them got a fair shake with the starters so your point would be mute in this particular case. Its one thing to have a open competition with equal time with the starters. That didnt happen with the Broncos this offseason.

[Northman]

I cant look up the stats for the other games, but I thought Quin looked better. i could be wrong though.

Here are the stats, obviously in some games Quinn got more time in the games than Tebow but overall Tebow actually had a better completion ratio.

Week 1:

Quinn- 8/14 120 yds 1 TD
Tebow- 6/7 91 yds

Week 2:

Quinn- 10/16 130 yds 1 TD, 1 Int
Tebow- 1/2 10 yds

Week 3:

Quinn- Did not play
Tebow- 6/11 93 yds

Week 4:

Quinn- 4/12 26 yds 0 Td, 1 Int
Tebow- 7/11 116 yds 1 TD

[vandammage13]

Why would the Broncos stiffle the love of one of their players? I know Quinns last game was bad. Tebows wasnt much better. I cant look up the stats for the other games, but I thought Quin looked better. i could be wrong though.

You are.

[GEM]

Having Tebow driven into your brain with a hatchet over and over and over and then wonders why some are so adverse to hearing about Tebow.

Sorry Bull, you do Tebow no favors. People actually like him less because of the continuous rants and silly threads.

[claymore]

Regardless of what quarterbacks/players you are talking about, this is dumb. Alan Iverson did have some validity in his practice rant. You can't simulate the defense coming to take your head off after you snap the ball in practice in such a way that the immediacy and adrenaline is going to be the same as in game time.

I want my franchise QB to be able to make plays during a game when the game is on the line. I want him to have good instinctual play, and not hone in on one or two guys. I want him to be able to see that the play that the OC called is crap and audible so that we don't lose a down.

I don't know if Quinn or Tebow can do this. Orton sure as hell can't. He's a great practice QB, and I'd love to have him as my QB if I'm playing flag football. But in full contact sports, he's a headcase. More worried about getting hurt than getting the job done.You guys need to quit pretending Orton looks good at practice. He got booed at practice before Tebow was even here. Nobody says "wow, Orton really slung it in there." "He made an unbelievable throw". They say, "he had an OK day, but looked way better than Quin and Tebow."

Orton sucks. He is the bare minimum. He is a career backup that has no business starting. Ever.

Tebow doesnt have to look good in practice. He just has to look better than Orton.

[Bullgator]

I don't care what Orton did in high school or college because it doesn't mean squat for the pros. So he wasn't that great in high school and college big deal. The history of the NFL is chalked full of Tebow like quarterbacks whose shit didn't stink in high school or college and yet they weren't worth spit in the NFL.

Bull you complained in last week in a thread that Broncos fans on this board are crap because they don't treat you well. Going back through the argument of whether or not high school and college stats mean jack shit for the NFL for the umteenth time wont change minds. This seems like you're trying to bait people once again so that you complain how cruel and dumb the Broncos fan base is for not accepting your view that Tebow is next best thing since sliced bread.

I don't what the exact percentages are would bet about half if not a majority of the Broncos fan base thinks should have a chance to prove himself. They wont commit to saying he is absolutely the future but they are willing to give him chance. Why is that so hard for you to accept?

EVEN IF ORTON DID THE SAME THINGS LIKE FUMBLE AWAY GAMES?!?! thats just ignorant

[slim]

If Luck had to use 2nd and third 3 string backups to try and make an impression of beating Orton who used only the starters Orton would still be your starter. It doesnt matter what QB was playing on this team during practice. None of them got a fair shake with the starters so your point would be mute in this particular case. Its one thing to have a open competition with equal time with the starters. That didnt happen with the Broncos this offseason.

Luck would be handed the job, as most 1st round picks are.

Tebow is the only 1st round pick that has to "earn it in practice".

[slim]

You guys need to quit pretending Orton looks good at practice. He got booed at practice before Tebow was even here. Nobody says "wow, Orton really slung it in there." "He made an unbelievable throw". They say, "he had an OK day, but looked way better than Quin and Tebow."

Orton sucks. He is the bare minimum. He is a career backup that has no business starting. Ever.

Tebow doesnt have to look good in practice. He just has to look better than Orton.

Completely untrue. People were gushing over Orton at training camp this year.

[vandammage13]

You guys need to quit pretending Orton looks good at practice. He got booed at practice before Tebow was even here. Nobody says "wow, Orton really slung it in there." "He made an unbelievable throw". They say, "he had an OK day, but looked way better than Quin and Tebow."

Orton sucks. He is the bare minimum. He is a career backup that has no business starting. Ever.

Tebow doesnt have to look good in practice. He just has to look better than Orton.

He looked putrid in the 2009 preseason (as he was learning the new McD system).

But by most accounts, he was very sharp in most of 2010 and 2011 TC. Preseason games too..

[Northman]

Completely untrue. People were gushing over Orton at training camp this year.

Yea, i dont know what Clay is smoking. The media and "scouts" were saying Orton was slinging and zipping the ball throughout practice like a man on a mission. :lol:

[Thnikkaman]

You guys need to quit pretending Orton looks good at practice. He got booed at practice before Tebow was even here. Nobody says "wow, Orton really slung it in there." "He made an unbelievable throw". They say, "he had an OK day, but looked way better than Quin and Tebow."

Orton sucks. He is the bare minimum. He is a career backup that has no business starting. Ever.

Tebow doesnt have to look good in practice. He just has to look better than Orton.

But your whole argument is that Tebow needs to look better in practice than Orton. Right?

[MNPatsFan]

Produce Meth.Methane?:shocked:

:laugh:

[slim]

Yea, i dont know what Clay is smoking. The media and "scouts" were saying Orton was slinging and zipping the ball throughout practice like a man on a mission. :lol:

There was a lot of talk that he may crack the list of top 10 QBs this year :laugh:

This was the year he would put it all together. :laugh:

[Northman]

There was a lot of talk that he may crack the list of top 10 QBs this year :laugh:

This was the year he would put it all together. :laugh:

Little did they know it would be in the turnover category. :lol:

[claymore]

Luck would be handed the job, as most 1st round picks are.

Tebow is the only 1st round pick that has to "earn it in practice".
I think they tried to hand it to him.

Completely untrue. People were gushing over Orton at training camp this year.
Hmm, I didnt see any of this.

He looked putrid in the 2009 preseason (as he was learning the new McD system).

But by most accounts, he was very sharp in most of 2010 and 2011 TC. Preseason games too..Orton has never looked sharp at anything.


Yea, i dont know what Clay is smoking. The media and "scouts" were saying Orton was slinging and zipping the ball throughout practice like a man on a mission. :lol:Id like to read one of these reports.


But your whole argument is that Tebow needs to look better in practice than Orton. Right?

In order to start. That is a pretty low measuring stick IMO. It would start with looking better than Quin. Which is even lower.

[Thnikkaman]

Methane?:shocked:

:laugh:

Yes produce methane. :smh:

Actually, the department I'm in at work has helped get low cost virtual reality set ups installed in 100 midwest schools (80 in Iowa) to help get kids interested in technology and the sciences. So there's that.

[Thnikkaman]

In order to start. That is a pretty low measuring stick IMO. It would start with looking better than Quin. Which is even lower.

Your measuring stick is flawed then for the reasons I stated above. Its similar to how a Medical student can ace all the paper exams thrown in front of them, but then goes to shit when they have to start dealing with real patients.

[claymore]

Your measuring stick is flawed then for the reasons I stated above. Its similar to how a Medical student can ace all the paper exams thrown in front of them, but then goes to shit when they have to start dealing with real patients.

But the students have to pass the test to become Doctors in the first place. You guys want to make a guy who cant pass the test a Doctor. Because he has some magical healing skill that cant be proven.

[Northman]

Id like to read one of these reports.




http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18568906


Orton was his usual polished self, always knowing which of the receivers was open, and hitting them with precision. The Orton-Brandon Lloyd connections down the field picked up where they left off in 2010.

[Bullgator]

Having Tebow driven into your brain with a hatchet over and over and over and then wonders why some are so adverse to hearing about Tebow.

Sorry Bull, you do Tebow no favors. People actually like him less because of the continuous rants and silly threads.

IDK Gem... I state what I believe to be right and I have merit in what I say. If some are weak enough mentally to be sick of hearing facts and predictions (how ever lofty) and ranting and arguing then what the **** are they doing on forums WHERE THATS ALL WE DO?

Grow some thicker skin and come up with better arguments... Lord knows thats what I've had to do round here.

Sure I'm a homer, but my arguments are not without merit. Ill tell you this its certainly better than being lil baby whiny cry fetus about being sick of hearing shit about Tebow or luck or how shitty McD is all the time, or shanahan or cutler or plummer or or or.... wtf is the diff?

or crying for a mod to delete/move threads or telling people to quit the forums like lil bitches because IM a weak mentally and"omg i cant take thissss!"

give me a break with that shit. all this coming from the same people who are legendary round here for their rants and opinions and negativity and bitching.

I know your defending your boy clay and your loyalty is respectable but gtho of here with that same weak shit and come up with some counter points instead of just telling me to shut up... cuz i got news im not going to. defeat my arguments dont try and stifle them.

[MOtorboat]

Luck would be handed the job, as most 1st round picks are.

Tebow is the only 1st round pick that has to "earn it in practice".

Incorrect. Most first round picks immediately look like the best player at his position in camp (i.e. Von Miller, who was clearly superior in pass rushing skills to everyone except maybe Dumervil).

Of course, not Tebow's fault he was a first round draft pick...but still...

[Northman]

Incorrect. Most first round picks immediately look like the best player at his position in camp (i.e. Von Miller, who was clearly superior in pass rushing skills to everyone except maybe Dumervil).



Unless of course they have a better player at that position. Currently Denver does not have a better player at QB. Its a wash at best.

[jhildebrand]

So many used the "cutler has lost since HS" argument around here to support shipping him out. Many used the "all orton does is win" argument to support McD getting him.

So why can't someone now bring up TT's HS and college records? :confused:

I am not saying that I agree they will translate in any form but we all know just how much the above arguments were tossed around.

[slim]

Incorrect. Most first round picks immediately look like the best player at his position in camp (i.e. Von Miller, who was clearly superior in pass rushing skills to everyone except maybe Dumervil).

Of course, not Tebow's fault he was a first round draft pick...but still...

C'mon MO, you know that's not true...especially at the QB position. It is nearly impossible for a rookie QB to out perform a veteran QB in practice.

Take our own baby Jay, for example. He was handed a starting job on team that was likely to make the playoffs.

[GEM]

IDK Gem... I state what I believe to be right and I have merit in what I say. If some are weak enough mentally to be sick of hearing facts and predictions (how ever lofty) and ranting and arguing then what the **** are they doing on forums WHERE THATS ALL WE DO?

Grow some thicker skin and come up with better arguments... Lord knows thats what I've had to do round here.

Sure I'm a homer, but my arguments are not without merit. Ill tell you this its certainly better than being lil baby whiny cry fetus about being sick of hearing shit about Tebow or luck or how shitty McD is all the time, or shanahan or cutler or plummer or or or.... wtf is the diff?

or crying for a mod to delete/move threads or telling people to quit the forums like lil bitches because IM a weak mentally and"omg i cant take thissss!"

give me a break with that shit. all this coming from the same people who are legendary round here for their rants and opinions and negativity and bitching.

I know your defending your boy clay and your loyalty is respectable but gtho of here with that same weak shit and come up with some counter points instead of just telling me to shut up... cuz i got news im not going to. defeat my arguments dont try and stifle them.


I don't have to argue your points....I agree with your points. I want them to play Tebow. I'm just sick of having it shoved down the freaking throat repeatedly.

[jhildebrand]

Luck would be handed the job, as most 1st round picks are.

Tebow is the only 1st round pick that has to "earn it in practice".

Exactly! The same people who insist TT has to earn will be the same people saying it is ok to hand the reigns to Luck. They will also use the same arguments that he needs to learn by experience on the field not sitting behind another QB. :rolleyes:

[GEM]

C'mon MO, you know that's not true...especially at the QB position. It is nearly impossible for a rookie QB to out perform a veteran QB in practice.

Take our own baby Jay, for example. He was handed a starting job on team that was likely to make the playoffs.

JaMarcus Russell :lol:

[MNPatsFan]

Luck would be handed the job, as most 1st round picks are.

Tebow is the only 1st round pick that has to "earn it in practice".I don't remember Aaron Rodgers being handed the job early in his career. Some other 1st round QBs who weren't handed the job immediately are:
David Brown (Giants)
Tommy Maddox (Broncos)
Steve McNair (Oilers/Titans)
Akili Smith (Bengals)
Daunte Culpepper (Vikings)
Chad Pennington (Jets)
Rex Grossman (Bears)
Eli Manning (Chargers traded to Giants)
Philip Rivers (Chargers)
J.P. Losman (Bills)
Jason Campbell (Redskins)
Matt Leinart (Cardinals)
Jay Cutler (Broncos)
Brady Quinn (Browns)
Josh Freeman

Think that covers most if not all of them.

[jhildebrand]

I don't have to argue your points....I agree with your points. I want them to play Tebow. I'm just sick of having it shoved down the freaking throat repeatedly.

Well this has gone on since Griese Plummer, Plummer Cutler, Cutler Orton, now Orton Tebow. I think some of the vitriol about Tebow is misdirected because of that.

Denver needs to set up with a QB and be done with it!

[claymore]

C'mon MO, you know that's not true...especially at the QB position. It is nearly impossible for a rookie QB to out perform a veteran QB in practice.

Take our own baby Jay, for example. He was handed a starting job on team that was likely to make the playoffs.

Plummer folded. He was absolutley terrible when Shanahan replced him. What was his QBr rating? in the 70's for the year?

That was plummers fault.

[MOtorboat]

C'mon MO, you know that's not true...especially at the QB position. It is nearly impossible for a rookie QB to out perform a veteran QB in practice.

Take our own baby Jay, for example. He was handed a starting job on team that was likely to make the playoffs.

And didn't make the playoffs.

I'm so sick of the Shanahan/McDaniels throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks philosophy.

Consistency dammit, even if it consistently sucks, at this point, is cool with me...

[jhildebrand]

I don't remember Aaron Rodgers being handed the job early in his career.

Aaron Rodgers was HANDED the job. He didn't earn it by beating Favre out at practice. Ted Thompson shipped out Favre with 3 good years left as unceremoniously as he could.

Philip Rivers was handed the job. Marty wanted to stick with Brees. Management (AJ Smith) sent Brees off into FA so Rivers could see the field.

Big Ben didn't earn it. He took over when Maddox was hurt in week 1.

Brady didn't earn it. He took over when Bledsoe had his kidney blasted out of his body.

Romo didn't earn it or win the job in practice/preseason he took over for a once again injured Bledsoe.

Eli didn't beat out Warner. The G men had to ship off Warner.

Warner didn't beat out Trent Green. He took over for injury.

Matt Stafford was given the job.

Cam Newton was handed the job.

Cutler was handed the job.

Tell me again who has "earned" it by beating out the competition at practice, OTA's, PS, etc...

By the way, for as many who would cite the need to earn it as an "unwritten" rule in the league, I would also cite the "unwritten" rule that vets aren't supposed to lose their job to injury!

[Northman]

Plummer folded. He was absolutley terrible when Shanahan replced him. What was his QBr rating? in the 70's for the year?

That was plummers fault.

In the end yes, but i would of replaced him after the opening game personally. I just saw that season coming from him. But Shanny gave him the benefit of the doubt and let him go until he couldnt deal with it anymore.

[vandammage13]

I don't have to argue your points....I agree with your points. I want them to play Tebow. I'm just sick of having it shoved down the freaking throat repeatedly.

Maybe you should heed your own advice that I have seen you give others in the past and ignore the Tebow threads or place Bull on iggy.

Not saying you shouldn't be sick of it, but all you have to do is not click on the thread.

And it is a message board after all...there are only so many topics to discuss and the Tebow/Orton debate just happens to be the most high profile one.

[Northman]

And didn't make the playoffs.

I'm so sick of the Shanahan/McDaniels throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks philosophy.

Consistency dammit, even if it consistently sucks, at this point, is cool with me...

We were consistently sucking under McDaniels.

[slim]

And didn't make the playoffs.

I'm so sick of the Shanahan/McDaniels throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks philosophy.

Consistency dammit, even if it consistently sucks, at this point, is cool with me...

I feel your pain and agree to some extent.

I just can't watch Orton play anymore. I don't care if Quinn starts, really....but it is just painfully obvious that it is time to go a different direction at QB.

[Poet]

Stop ******* posting. You are a terrible 'fan', know nothing about football and everyone pretty much thinks you're a joke. Jesus Christ Tim Tebow is terrible and should be booted out of the NFL. He will convert to Satanism and have sex goats.

Go. Away.

[slim]

Plummer folded. He was absolutley terrible when Shanahan replced him. What was his QBr rating? in the 70's for the year?

That was plummers fault.

Orton is folding right before our eyes!

[Northman]

Stop ******* posting. You are a terrible 'fan', know nothing about football and everyone pretty much thinks you're a joke. Jesus Christ Tim Tebow is terrible and should be booted out of the NFL. He will convert to Satanism and have sex goats.

Go. Away.

Ok, bye.

[Bullgator]

I don't have to argue your points....I agree with your points. I want them to play Tebow. I'm just sick of having it shoved down the freaking throat repeatedly.

And we(his supporters) are sick of him getting swept under the rug... there wouldnt be shit to say if he was given say 10 games and he sucked.. it would be over with... but to ignore it and let this fester isnt going to make his supporters stop... in fact we will do the only thing we can... grow louder and louder until he gets to show once and for all what he can or cant do. what do you expect us to do?

he has been so polarizing and there has been so much smack talk do you really expect us to just walk away without a TT getting a fair shake?

2 weeks of TC was not a fair shake. not when KO has 7 years of failures and even Quinn got a shot with the browns.

[slim]

Stop ******* posting. You are a terrible 'fan', know nothing about football and everyone pretty much thinks you're a joke. Jesus Christ Tim Tebow is terrible and should be booted out of the NFL. He will convert to Satanism and have sex goats.

Go. Away.

Our current starting QB got out played by a 2nd round, red headed QB.

A freaking ginger!

[claymore]

Tell me again who has "earned" it by beating out the competition at practice, OTA's, PS, etc...

By the way, for as many who would cite the need to earn it as an "unwritten" rule in the league, I would also cite the "unwritten" rule that vets aren't supposed to lose their job to injury!

I disagree with some with some that you labeled earned it vs handed it. But you make a great point about "Who has earned it in OTA's and practice".

I cant think of any. I dont know if im drawing a brain fart, or if its a very small number.

But... How many #1 pick's werent the clear cut #2 behind a mediocre/bad QB? Let alone how many #1's were bumped back to #3 behind 2 shitty Qb's?

(I think he is #3 , but that is JMO. I dont believe in the co#2 shit )

[Poet]

Our current starting QB got out played by a 2nd round, red headed QB.

A freaking ginger!

The Great Red Hope will be a good NFL player.

Never, EVER disrespect TGRH!

Northman, you say goodbye and I say hello!

No, I don't actually think Tebow sucks ass, but seriously, can we ban Bullgator? Please?

[Northman]

I disagree with some with some that you labeled earned it vs handed it. But you make a great point about "Who has earned it in OTA's and practice".

I cant think of any. I dont know if im drawing a brain fart, or if its a very small number.

But... How many #1 pick's werent the clear cut #2 behind a mediocre/bad QB? Let alone how many #1's were bumped back to #3 behind 2 shitty Qb's?

(I think he is #3 , but that is JMO. I dont believe in the co#2 shit )


How many actually had 2 #1 draft picks behind the vet? Serious question. I dont recall any so if a #1 draft pick sat behind the vet i doubt the #3 was another 1st rounder.

[vandammage13]

I disagree with some with some that you labeled earned it vs handed it. But you make a great point about "Who has earned it in OTA's and practice".

I cant think of any. I dont know if im drawing a brain fart, or if its a very small number.

But... How many #1 pick's werent the clear cut #2 behind a mediocre/bad QB? Let alone how many #1's were bumped back to #3 behind 2 shitty Qb's?

(I think he is #3 , but that is JMO. I dont believe in the co#2 shit )

Fitzpatrick is another guy...Trent Edwards was repeatedly given the #1 job and thrown back out there time and time again despite his failures in live action.

Fitz didn't play himself in as much as Edwards played himself out. Similar to what should happen with Orton.

[weazel]

I think gator is on to something...

Bullgators Grade point average versus his love for Tebow...

Grade 10: 2.33 : had a little bit of a Tebow crush
Grade 11: 1.67 : Had his first encounter with Timmy
Grade 12: 1.00 : full on man love, stalking Tebow nightly

If you see, the more love bullgator has for Timmy, the worse he does with his academics... Its a sad tale.

[jhildebrand]

I disagree with some with some that you labeled earned it vs handed it. But you make a great point about "Who has earned it in OTA's and practice".

I cant think of any. I dont know if im drawing a brain fart, or if its a very small number.

But... How many #1 pick's werent the clear cut #2 behind a mediocre/bad QB? Let alone how many #1's were bumped back to #3 behind 2 shitty Qb's?

(I think he is #3 , but that is JMO. I dont believe in the co#2 shit )

Alex Smith bounced back and forth a bit. In fact SF is still tinkering with that train wreck of a pick. Kolb too but I am not sure if Kolb was a #1.

The point is the idea of earning it is a farce. Rodgers had Favre to "learn" from while on the bench. It was clear he didn't learn much. He had to experience it on the field.

Most teams are smart enough when drafting a first round QB to remove all obstacles for that player and give them every opportunity to succeed. You didn't see the Rams bring in a big name to compete against Bradford. Bulger was gone FOR A REASON.

Thompson and Smith were smart for sending off one Qb to start "their" guy. Granted it was a BALLSY move as Ted Thompson would either be the hero or goat in GB. AJ ends up with egg on his face as Brees has gone on to be an UNQUESTIONABLY ELITE talent and leading the toilet bowl saints not only in resurgence but SB victory.

The Qb position is the only point I fault our new FO for in they needed to make a similar decision the moment the Orton trade fell through. They deserve the bed they are laying in right now when it comes to Orton v Tebow!

[vandammage13]

Alex Smith bounced back and forth a bit. In fact SF is still tinkering with that train wreck of a pick. Kolb too but I am not sure if Kolb was a #1.

The point is the idea of earning it is a farce. Rodgers had Favre to "learn" from while on the bench. It was clear he didn't learn much. He had to experience it on the field.

Most teams are smart enough when drafting a first round QB to remove all obstacles for that player and give them every opportunity to succeed. You didn't see the Rams bring in a big name to compete against Bradford. Bulger was gone FOR A REASON.

Thompson and Smith were smart for sending off one Qb to start "their" guy. Granted it was a BALLSY move as Ted Thompson would either be the hero or goat in GB. AJ ends up with egg on his face as Brees has gone on to be an UNQUESTIONABLY ELITE talent and leading the toilet bowl saints not only in resurgence but SB victory.

The Qb position is the only point I fault our new FO for in they needed to make a similar decision the moment the Orton trade fell through. They deserve the bed they are laying in right now when it comes to Orton v Tebow!

Yeah Kolb would be another good example of being handed the #1 job.

I'm not saying there is someone better on their roster, but with as much as the Cards gave up for Kolb, do you really think those backups ever had a legitimate shot to win that job?

They could have totally outperfomed him in TC and it would have been Kolb regardless.

[jhildebrand]

Oh I forgot-Sanchez and Flacco were handed their jobs.

At least Carolina was honest and played Newton and Clausen with the #1's. Newton won that job (from my vantage point anyway) fair and square.

Gabbert was HANDED the job. Del Rio flipped on Garrard after a bad practice 11 days before the start of the season.

[Bullgator]

Stop ******* posting. You are a terrible 'fan', know nothing about football and everyone pretty much thinks you're a joke. Jesus Christ Tim Tebow is terrible and should be booted out of the NFL. He will convert to Satanism and have sex goats.

Go. Away.

This is you posting behind the interwebz

http://art.ngfiles.com/medium_views/122/homojesus_tough-guy.jpg

THIS is you in real life.

http://www.biglolz.com/images/1307703710-92753.jpg:lol::lol::lol:

[weazel]

This is you posting behind the interwebz

http://art.ngfiles.com/medium_views/122/homojesus_tough-guy.jpg

THIS is you in real life.

http://www.biglolz.com/images/1307703710-92753.jpg:lol::lol::lol:

wow thats clever... :rolleyes:

[jhildebrand]

Yeah Kolb would be another good example of being handed the #1 job.

I'm not saying there is someone better on the roster, but with as much as the Cards gave up for Kolb, do you really think those backups ever had a legitimate shot to win that job?

They could have totally outperfomed him and it would have been Kolb regardless.

Even in Philly- Reid traded McNabb off for Kolb to start! Think how bad McNabb was last year and this year! Kolb couldnt beat that out?

Even then Kolb went in and out with Vick last year.

Reid saw an issue brewing, liked what Vick did and eliminated the mess that we are in by moving Kolb.

I could not care less anymore about Orton Tebow. It isn't about that for me. It is simply about the FO showing some real growth and removing Orton for Fox. It is so clear to the fanbase and it should be for them to. I know it creates issues with the Coaching staff but that is what a GOOD FO does.

[vandammage13]

Seems with all of these examples that a QB is either handed a job, gets it due to injury, or gets it due to the starter playing his way out of it during the season.

There are almost no cases of a QB unseating an incumbent in TC.

[claymore]

Even in Philly- Reid traded McNabb off for Kolb to start! Think how bad McNabb was last year and this year! Kolb couldnt beat that out?

Even then Kolb went in and out with Vick last year.

Reid saw an issue brewing, liked what Vick did and eliminated the mess that we are in by moving Kolb.

I could not care less anymore about Orton Tebow. It isn't about that for me. It is simply about the FO showing some real growth and removing Orton for Fox. It is so clear to the fanbase and it should be for them to. I know it creates issues with the Coaching staff but that is what a GOOD FO does.

With all those #1's being handed the Job I would think if this Org liked Tebow it would have been done already.

I dont think these guys like Tebow. And it has nothing to do with politics , money or religion.

[Bullgator]

In the end there is only one way to evaluate your QB... and thats under center with the ones.

Fox's statement that his starter needs experience with his offense scares me tho... because if hes learning this year that means that he will most likely be here next year.

[slim]

With all those #1's being handed the Job I would think if this Org liked Tebow it would have been done already.

I dont think these guys like Tebow. And it has nothing to do with politics , money or religion.

I don't think the coaching staff likes him. But I think the FO would like to see more.

It's only a matter of time before the FO forces a chance.

[vandammage13]

With all those #1's being handed the Job I would think if this Org liked Tebow it would have been done already.

I dont think these guys like Tebow. And it has nothing to do with politics , money or religion.

They tried to hand it to him but the Orton trade fell through...

Like I said earlier, incumbents don't get unseated in TC. They get traded or released to make way for the new guy. (Eli, Rivers, Rogers, etc..)

[claymore]

I don't think the coaching staff likes him. But I think the FO would like to see more.

It's only a matter of time before the FO forces a chance.

If he does get thrown in, I hope its for more than 3 games. We need 6 games minimum to make any sort of evaluation IMO.

[vandammage13]

If he does get thrown in, I hope its for more than 3 games. We need 6 games minimum to make any sort of evaluation IMO.

I think 6 is the most we're gonna get.

[jhildebrand]

I would be ok with TT and Quinn splitting the remainder of the starts.

Quinn would be a good option to extend in the event TT doesn't pan out and this team is going to draft a QB. He is the kind of guy you want a Luck to come in and compete against.

[slim]

If he does get thrown in, I hope its for more than 3 games. We need 6 games minimum to make any sort of evaluation IMO.

Couldn't agree more.

[claymore]

They tried to hand it to him but the Orton trade fell through...

Like I said earlier, incumbents don't get unseated in TC. They get traded or released to make way for the new guy. (Eli, Rivers, Rogers, etc..)

IMO, they could have made the trade go thru by telling Orton he was #2. Orton would have reduced his pay to remain a starter.

I dont know what made the Broncos back off. If they were willing to trade orton away and roll with Tebow, why did they get gun shy at the last moment.

[Poet]

Because Fox thinks that the Broncos can win this year. That's why. I'm not sure why everyone is shocked that Fox is mismanaging the team already, he was pretty crappy in Carolina with a few bright spots, although the last flame out wasn't on him totally.

[Nomad]

Produce Meth.

Tweakers + Children of the Corn = scary :D

[Bullgator]

With all those #1's being handed the Job I would think if this Org liked Tebow it would have been done already.

I dont think these guys like Tebow. And it has nothing to do with politics , money or religion.

It has to do with politics and religion and the circus plus the fans PLUS a hybrid QB like TT would force fox to CHANGE his offensive philosophy...

even Fox said him self in his post game interview what Ive been saying all along... TT makes it 11 on 11 and he named all the advantages that a QB like TT has... but he just refuses to change his style to accommodate TT. :tsk:

Ill link here in just a sec...

[slim]

IMO, they could have made the trade go thru by telling Orton he was #2. Orton would have reduced his pay to remain a starter.

I dont know what made the Broncos back off. If they were willing to trade orton away and roll with Tebow, why did they get gun shy at the last moment.

They didn't....Miami decided he didn't want to give Orton a 3 year $30 million contract (which that had previously agreed to).

[slim]

It has to do with politics and religion and the circus plus the fans PLUS a hybrid QB like TT would force fox to CHANGE his offensive philosophy...

even Fox said him self in his post game interview what Ive been saying all along... TT makes it 11 on 11 and he named all the advantages that a QB like TT has... but he just refuses to change his style to accommodate TT. :tsk:

Ill link here in just a sec...

Go away.

[BroncoStud]

Because Fox thinks that the Broncos can win this year. That's why. I'm not sure why everyone is shocked that Fox is mismanaging the team already, he was pretty crappy in Carolina with a few bright spots, although the last flame out wasn't on him totally.

Pretty much. Fox came in and sold Elway that he could win now, with the current roster. They believed Orton had more trade value than he does, tried to move him, no one bit, had to keep him, he looked good in practice and here we are.

Elway got owned by the Dolphins and Orton. I wouldn't be at all surprised if behind the scenes Elway was regretting the John Fox hire and not taking less to move Orton. I have no way of knowing any of this but were I sitting in Elway's situation that is probably how I would feel.

He's a newbie and learning as he goes.

[Bullgator]

Go away.

:lol: sure thing buddy... you just hold your breath

[MNPatsFan]

jhildebrand, I was responding to a poster who said/implied Luck would be handed the job in his his rookie training camp and season. You, on the other hand, are claiming QBs were HANDED the job in LATER years or seasons. You are also introducing and discussing QBs I didn't identify in my post.


Aaron Rodgers was HANDED the job. He didn't earn it by beating Favre out at practice. Ted Thompson shipped out Favre with 3 good years left as unceremoniously as he could.NOT in his rookie season as the poster I was responding to stated. How many years was it before Rodgers was actually handed the job, something like 3 or 4? So yeah, you can spin it however you want but my point is still valid because Rodgers wasn't handed the job his rookie season.

BTW, Favre had ONE good year left when he was shipped out. His season in NY was mediocre at best. His first season in MN was phenomenal until he threw that horrible pick at the end of regulation in the NFCCG. His season last year was horrific.


Philip Rivers was handed the job. Marty wanted to stick with Brees. Management (AJ Smith) sent Brees off into FA so Rivers could see the field.Again Rivers wasn't handed the job his rookie season. Please compare apples to apples.


Big Ben didn't earn it. He took over when Maddox was hurt in week 1.

Brady didn't earn it. He took over when Bledsoe had his kidney blasted out of his body.

Romo didn't earn it or win the job in practice/preseason he took over for a once again injured Bledsoe.I didn't even identify or discuss these QBs.:rolleyes:

I am noting a pattern here of how you don't remain on point and try shifting the discussion.


Eli didn't beat out Warner. The G men had to ship off Warner.Once again, Eli wasn't handed the job during training camp and wasn't the starting QB when the season started.

BTW, Warner opted out of his contract, the G men didn't ship Warner off. You can't even get your facts straight.:rolleyes:


Warner didn't beat out Trent Green. He took over for injury.

Matt Stafford was given the job.

Cam Newton was handed the job.What a shock and surprise, more QBs I didn't identify or discuss.


Cutler was handed the job.Are we talking in Denver or Chicago?:confused:

If Denver, then unless I am mistaken, Cutler was not handed the starting QB job in training camp and wasn't the starting QB in the first game of his rookie season. Therefore, my point and position was correct, despite your attempts to spin and contort the argument to fit and suit your desires and needs.

[Bullgator]

Pretty much. Fox came in and sold Elway that he could win now, with the current roster. They believed Orton had more trade value than he does, tried to move him, no one bit, had to keep him, he looked good in practice and here we are.

Elway got owned by the Dolphins and Orton. I wouldn't be at all surprised if behind the scenes Elway was regretting the John Fox hire and not taking less to move Orton. I have no way of knowing any of this but were I sitting in Elway's situation that is probably how I would feel.

He's a newbie and learning as he goes.

Its Orton that wouldnt ok the deal.. he wants real money... but he woke up from that dream.

[BroncoStud]

Its Orton that wouldnt ok the deal.. he wants real money... but he woke up from that dream.

Orton had a 1 year deal. Had we been willing to take a 5th for his sorry ass more teams might have shown interest.

[Bullgator]

here is the link... fox postgame part 1 min 8:45-9:30 he talks about he admits of TTs advantages but still refuses to create an offense around him. :tsk:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/John-Fox-Monday-Press-Conference-Part-1/7f7f30e5-b5ec-40ee-b882-2e8298d630ff#?id=7f7f30e5-b5ec-40ee-b882-2e8298d630ff

[Northman]

Orton had a 1 year deal. Had we been willing to take a 5th for his sorry ass more teams might have shown interest.

Thats ok, after he tanks this season he will be worth absolutely nothing.

[Bullgator]

Thats ok, after he tanks this season he will be worth absolutely nothing.

thats been said for 7 years... some unlucky team (IMO it will still be the broncos) will believe this guy will turn the corner.

[vandammage13]

thats been said for 7 years... some unlucky team (IMO it will still be the broncos) will believe this guy will turn the corner.

God I hope not...

Then again, I thought he'd be gone last year and this year too...

[vandammage13]

IMO, they could have made the trade go thru by telling Orton he was #2. Orton would have reduced his pay to remain a starter.

I dont know what made the Broncos back off. If they were willing to trade orton away and roll with Tebow, why did they get gun shy at the last moment.

The Broncos didn't get gun shy...The Dolphins were just wise enough to realize you don't pay a borderline starter $27 mil over 3 years...

[jhildebrand]

jhildebrand, I was responding to a poster who said/implied Luck would be handed the job in his his rookie training camp and season. You, on the other hand, are claiming QBs were HANDED the job in LATER years or seasons. You are also introducing and discussing QBs I didn't identify in my post.

NOT in his rookie season as the poster I was responding to stated. How many years was it before Rodgers was actually handed the job, something like 3 or 4? So yeah, you can spin it however you want but my point is still valid because Rodgers wasn't handed the job his rookie season.

BTW, Favre had ONE good year left when he was shipped out. His season in NY was mediocre at best. His first season in MN was phenomenal until he threw that horrible pick at the end of regulation in the NFCCG. His season last year was horrific.

Again Rivers wasn't handed the job his rookie season. Please compare apples to apples.

I didn't even identify or discuss these QBs.:rolleyes:

I am noting a pattern here of how you don't remain on point and try shifting the discussion.

Once again, Eli wasn't handed the job during training camp and wasn't the starting QB when the season started.

BTW, Warner opted out of his contract, the G men didn't ship Warner off. You can't even get your facts straight.:rolleyes:

What a shock and surprise, more QBs I didn't identify or discuss.

Are we talking in Denver or Chicago?:confused:

If Denver, then unless I am mistaken, Cutler was not handed the starting QB job in training camp and wasn't the starting QB in the first game of his rookie season. Therefore, I point and position was correct, despite your attempts to spin and contort the argument to fit and suit your desires and needs.

The argument that has been tossed out, probably the most, is TT needs to "earn" the job by beating Orton out. He needs to earn the VERY job that Orton was HANDED.

People are still clinging to this notion despite Orton being 6-22 in the last 28 or whatever his terrible record is.

As for my reply and your subsequent post-I am not making a distinction between how long a QB sits. The idea here is to debunk this bull crap theory that QB's "earn" it. If that were the case Simms would have started here in 09 not Orton. The reality is some earn it by default/starter not producing.

As for your list-Cutler was handed the job EARLY on despite what you state. Unless starting as a rookie isn't early.

Cutler
McNair
Akili Smith
Eli Manning
JP Losman
Josh Freeman

All were handed the job at some point in their rookie season and remained the unquestioned starter the next.

Again, to keep to the argument- the idea of earning it is simply BS. If the Broncos simply named Quinn or Tebow the starter going forward due to Orton's terrible play, it wouldn't be novel. It wouldn't be something several teams in the league have done before. Orton supporters or the anti tebow crowd act as if Tebow being named the starter at this point would ruin the broncos in the veterans and leagues eyes! The fact they aren't goes against the grain more than the idea of making a change at this point.

[GEM]

Maybe you should heed your own advice that I have seen you give others in the past and ignore the Tebow threads or place Bull on iggy.

Not saying you shouldn't be sick of it, but all you have to do is not click on the thread.

And it is a message board after all...there are only so many topics to discuss and the Tebow/Orton debate just happens to be the most high profile one.


I can't place anyone on iggy, though there is no one here that I would....at this moment. :lol:

I'm a victim of listening to too much talk radio, reading threads here, I'm just Tebow'd out all around. :tsk: I love the kid and the stuff he stands for, I'd just rather have a duke it out over other Broncos positions and players at the moment.

[jhildebrand]

I am so dead on the tebow thing too, Gem. :tsk:

I am coming to the conclusion that no matter what the fanbase does, the team doesn't give a ish!

[I Eat Staples]

Wow Bullgator, you really did your research.

And here I was thinking you only knew about Tim Tebow. Are you a closet Orton fan?!

[TXBRONC]

thats been said for 7 years... some unlucky team (IMO it will still be the broncos) will believe this guy will turn the corner.


This is ignorance it as much anything I've said that you think is ignorant. There is not shred of evidence that Orton is coming back next year. I've mentioned that window of opportunity exsists that Orton could be offered a new contract but to date there have been no signs that they will.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Exactly! The same people who insist TT has to earn will be the same people saying it is ok to hand the reigns to Luck. They will also use the same arguments that he needs to learn by experience on the field not sitting behind another QB. :rolleyes:

Exactly, Don't let Rav or SOCAL find out that we drafted Luck or Barkley and then decided to sit them down behind a vet because they don't look "polished" at practice and can't "win from the pocket". They'll blow a damned gasket. Their rants will make Bullgator's look like he's only a "casual" TT fan. They love and worship guys to the point of heated argument who aren't even Broncos, yet...

[I Eat Staples]

Exactly, Don't let Rav or SOCAL find out that we drafted Luck or Barkley and then decided to sit them down behind a vet because they don't look "polished" at practice and can't "win from the pocket". They'll blow a damned gasket. Their rants will make Bullgator's look like he's only a "casual" TT fan. They love and worship guys to the point of heated argument who aren't even Broncos, yet...

Its not love and worship, its just thinking that they will be greatly helpful to our team. Its different when a guy where all signs point to him being a star struggles in practice and when a guy where all signs point to him being better suited as a FB or TE struggles in practice.

[Bullgator]

This is ignorance it as much anything I've said that you think is ignorant. There is not shred of evidence that Orton is coming back next year. I've mentioned that window of opportunity exsists that Orton could be offered a new contract but to date there have been no signs that they will.

Fox says that this is a 4-12 team and that there are no delusions.

Fox says that it will take time to BUILD a program.

Fox says that his STARTER needs to learn HIS OFFENSE when we are already 1-3 about to be 1-4 with no sign of TT or BQ anywhere in sight.

ALL signs indicate that Fox is going to ride Orton all the way to the end in a LOSING year... to what? get a new QB in next year to begin to learn all over again?

If he knows it will take time to build a winning program and plans to get rid of KO he has to a bigger retard than I thought to KEEP PLAYING KYLE when there is NO RETURN INVESTMENT.

Either he believes in KO or he doesn't... what do you think so far? If he does have that confidence(and he does or is faking it harder than a Taiwanese whore) then Fox would DEFINITELY rather resign KO than switch QBs.

I know this pisses you off dood but its not my fault Elway hired this dooshbag.

[Bullgator]

maybe MAYBE if the fans chant hard enough and after enough losses he may be forced into a corner... but for now hes dug in and in HIS mind he would resign KO in a heartbeat.

[weazel]

maybe MAYBE if the fans chant hard enough and after enough losses he may be forced into a corner... but for now hes dug in and in HIS mind he would resign KO in a heartbeat.

no one puts baby in a corner

[gnomeflinger]

I didn't know you could say "shit" in a Broncos Talk forum thread title. :whoknew:

[Ravage!!!]

Exactly, Don't let Rav or SOCAL find out that we drafted Luck or Barkley and then decided to sit them down behind a vet because they don't look "polished" at practice and can't "win from the pocket". They'll blow a damned gasket. Their rants will make Bullgator's look like he's only a "casual" TT fan. They love and worship guys to the point of heated argument who aren't even Broncos, yet...

This is complete horse shit. You obviously are pulling wet turds out of your ass and just flinging them against the wall. If you are going to use my name in a post, at least get the crap I say correctly.

[sneakers]

until his fumble was run back for a touchdown late in the 4th quarter against the undefeated 12th ranked Wisconsin Badgers, giving the 5th ranked Purdue its first of several losses that season.[/B]

LOL I remember that game. I laughed.