Kyle 5-21, Fox 3-17... Birds of a feather stick together.

[Bullgator]

Seems like these two mental cases have grown some kind of a kinship through their failures.

Do you guys realize that the two most important jobs in the NFL are the QB and head coach? Congratchuf***enlations we have the two worst in the LEAGUE!!

There is no other QB or HC that have a worse record than these two boneheads the past 3 years! How in the HELL are we supposed to compete with these guys at the helm?!

At this point Fox would kill Tebows career, I would rather see Teebs get traded than to play for this stubborn, spiteful idiot.

Fox and KO deserve each other... but we deserve better.

How long will it take Bowlen and Elway to realize this has to change? After all its their legacy at stake not Fox and KO, cuz they have already established that they are the worst in the league.

[lgenf]

Ok, if you want Kyle's record as a Bronco up there, then put it up

but Fox is 1-3 as a Bronco's HC and nothing he did before matters

[Northman]

Havent we heard this song and dance before?

[Bullgator]

Ok, if you want Kyle's record as a Bronco up there, then put it up

but Fox is 1-3 as a Bronco's HC and nothing he did before matters

Thats crazy Igen... You telling me if his record was 0-153 that it wouldnt matter because he is now wearing a different collared shirt with a horse logo?

Whats important is that he sucks as an NFL head coach. his record as a HEAD COACH is the worst in the league! How can you defend this guy?

He is outdated, stubborn and aloof. His style of play is what dooms him in a passing league where QBs are throwing for close to 500 yards every week he is still trying to play ball control with 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

He takes no risks, and clearly hes not as good a DC as he is supposed to be. The one thing he was supposed to bring to the table is a better D. I have yet to see it scheme wise. He puts our guys in one on one situations to get beat.. I mean you dont expect to hold your own against Rodgers and his receivers 1 on 1 no matter who you are..

He sucks and has to go... Its not that im panicking after 4 games, its that you can see his failure is inevitable and guaranteed.

You can wait until he posts a 3-13 record before you agree and say"well he has officialy sucked as a bronco now" or you can have some FORESIGHT and see this guy is wasting our time.

[vandammage13]

Thats crazy Igen... You telling me if his record was 0-153 that it wouldnt matter because he is now wearing a different collared shirt with a horse logo?

Whats important is that he sucks as an NFL head coach. his record as a HEAD COACH is the worst in the league! How can you defend this guy?

He is outdated, stubborn and aloof. His style of play is what dooms him in a passing league where QBs are throwing for close to 500 yards every week he is still trying to play ball control with 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

He takes no risks, and clearly hes not as good a DC as he is supposed to be. The one thing he was supposed to bring to the table is a better D. I have yet to see it scheme wise. He puts our guys in one on one situations to get beat.. I mean you dont expect to hold your own against Rodgers and his receivers 1 on 1 no matter who you are..

He sucks and has to go... Its not that im panicking after 4 games, its that you can see his failure is inevitable and guaranteed.

You can wait until he posts a 3-13 record before you agree and say"well he has officialy sucked as a bronco now" or you can have some FORESIGHT and see this guy is wasting our time.

I think when Fox pulls the plug on Orton and starts Teebs your tune on Fox might change.

[GEM]

Fox took over a team that was lucky to be 4-12. He took over a team that has shit for talent. Our starters aren't even practice squad material on most teams. I will give him more than 4 games to prove his worth.

Orton is a bum who has had 3 years to prove his worth. While not being the only problem, he is definitely A problem.

[Bullgator]

Fox took over a team that was lucky to be 4-12. He took over a team that has shit for talent. Our starters aren't even practice squad material on most teams. I will give him more than 4 games to prove his worth.

Orton is a bum who has had 3 years to prove his worth. While not being the only problem, he is definitely A problem.

I dont agree that we dont have talent. I think we have talent. the problem was McD more than it was talent.

Think about it like this. could be easily be 3-1 right now? why werent we? was it because of talent? or was it captain shit my pants and Fox refusing top use Tebow in the redzone?

I have no illusions about GB but we should be 3-1

[TXBRONC]

I think when Fox pulls the plug on Orton and starts Teebs your tune on Fox might change.

Yep then Fox becomes a genius.

[lgenf]

Thats crazy Igen... You telling me if his record was 0-153 that it wouldnt matter because he is now wearing a different collared shirt with a horse logo?

Whats important is that he sucks as an NFL head coach. his record as a HEAD COACH is the worst in the league! How can you defend this guy?

He is outdated, stubborn and aloof. His style of play is what dooms him in a passing league where QBs are throwing for close to 500 yards every week he is still trying to play ball control with 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

He takes no risks, and clearly hes not as good a DC as he is supposed to be. The one thing he was supposed to bring to the table is a better D. I have yet to see it scheme wise. He puts our guys in one on one situations to get beat.. I mean you dont expect to hold your own against Rodgers and his receivers 1 on 1 no matter who you are..

He sucks and has to go... Its not that im panicking after 4 games, its that you can see his failure is inevitable and guaranteed.

You can wait until he posts a 3-13 record before you agree and say"well he has officialy sucked as a bronco now" or you can have some FORESIGHT and see this guy is wasting our time.

if he was 0-153 then John Elway should be fired along with Fox, but he isn't

this is year 1 - time to rebuild, reload whatever

he's 1-3 so far, if he is 3-13 at the end of this year, it will still be because of several factors, only one of which is Fox

No players, no depth - that is on McD

with no offseason we didn't do a very good job of signing FA in the 1 week window that everyone else did - that is not on Fox

Ok so he has a stagnant O - did you see the flea flicker yesterday?

I'm not saying this is turning into the greatest show on turf, but damn give the guy a break, he's working with 2nd string scrubs at most positions out there

he's 1-3 that's all, that is all that concerns me - if Chucky showed up here this past year and he was 1-3 now, would you be calling for his head?

or would you be saying that he is only a middle of the road type of coach because his career record is barely above .500

Career record 95–81–0 (Regular Season)
5–4 (Postseason)
100–85–0 (Overall)

[claymore]

At what point is this BS considered spam? This is ridiculous.

[Bullgator]

I think when Fox pulls the plug on Orton and starts Teebs your tune on Fox might change.

That's really not true. Fox is what he is whether he is forced to play TT to save his job or not.

I dont hate fox for refusing to play TT. admittedly the way in which he has dealt with my boy pisses me off. he should have at least used TT in the redzone (and the only reason he didnt is out of spite)but the fact remains that he is the worst HC in the league. the mother of all stats is w/l and his is the WORST. this franchise will never be successful under fox.

[weazel]

the title of the thread is "birds of a feather..."

the first two posters are bullgator and lgenf... LMFAO

[GEM]

I dont agree that we dont have talent. I think we have talent. the problem was McD more than it was talent.

Think about it like this. could be easily be 3-1 right now? why werent we? was it because of talent? or was it captain shit my pants and Fox refusing top use Tebow in the redzone?

I have no illusions about GB but we should be 3-1

As I said in another thread, some of our starters wouldn't even be practice squad material on other teams. We have a few shiny stars, but mostly blah for talent.

53 guys, the talented ones are:

Champ (downside who crushes a hammy almost every season and is out 3-5 games)
Elvis (again can't stay healthy and who can't get past a lot of leverage due to his height.)
Von Miller (ok, he is super shiny and hopefully a sign that we finally have the draft figured out)
Clady (well he used to be a shiny star, not so sure this season)
Kuper (eh, ok, but eh)
Prater (?kicker)
Dawkins (not so much cause in coverage he sucks, but he makes up for it in leadership I guess)
Decker (wowsa)
Lloyd (again wowsa)
Royal (so far is a one year wonder)

Wow....I'm really freaking depressed now. :(

[lgenf]

let me post up Fox's full record

73-71-0 (Regular Season)
5-3 (Postseason)
78-74-0 (Overall)

seems right on par with Chucky and most would be out of their minds in Denver if we had Chucky at HC

[Bullgator]

I dont agree that we dont have talent. I think we have talent. the problem was McD more than it was talent.

Think about it like this. could be easily be 3-1 right now? why werent we? was it because of talent? or was it captain shit my pants and Fox refusing top use Tebow in the redzone?

I have no illusions about GB but we should be 3-1

Im going to go ahead and repost this... answer this truthfully.

[lgenf]

the title of the thread is "birds of a feather..."

the first two posters are bullgator and lgenf... LMFAO

yeah, except we are on different sides of this one

[Bullgator]

let me post up Fox's full record

73-71-0 (Regular Season)
5-3 (Postseason)
78-74-0 (Overall)

seems right on par with Chucky and most would be out of their minds in Denver if we had Chucky at HC

how is that record something to be proud of? barley over 500 isnt enough to keep your job as a high school coach much less an NFL coach...

And I have news for you... this will be the franchise he will use to dip well below 500

[claymore]

yeah, except we are on different sides of this one

Which side? the bench?

[chazoe60]

Your title should havr been "birds of a feather SUCK together". I would have chuckled.

[Bullgator]

As I said in another thread, some of our starters wouldn't even be practice squad material on other teams. We have a few shiny stars, but mostly blah for talent.

53 guys, the talented ones are:

Champ (downside who crushes a hammy almost every season and is out 3-5 games)
Elvis (again can't stay healthy and who can't get past a lot of leverage due to his height.)
Von Miller (ok, he is super shiny and hopefully a sign that we finally have the draft figured out)
Clady (well he used to be a shiny star, not so sure this season)
Kuper (eh, ok, but eh)
Prater (?kicker)
Dawkins (not so much cause in coverage he sucks, but he makes up for it in leadership I guess)
Decker (wowsa)
Lloyd (again wowsa)
Royal (so far is a one year wonder)

Wow....I'm really freaking depressed now. :(

meanwhile SF is 3-1 under harbaugh... ALEX SMITH FFS... dont under estimate the power of the HC... if hes good then he will make his blah into bling.

[Zweems56]

Thats crazy Igen... You telling me if his record was 0-153 that it wouldnt matter because he is now wearing a different collared shirt with a horse logo?

Whats important is that he sucks as an NFL head coach. his record as a HEAD COACH is the worst in the league! How can you defend this guy?

He is outdated, stubborn and aloof. His style of play is what dooms him in a passing league where QBs are throwing for close to 500 yards every week he is still trying to play ball control with 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

He takes no risks, and clearly hes not as good a DC as he is supposed to be. The one thing he was supposed to bring to the table is a better D. I have yet to see it scheme wise. He puts our guys in one on one situations to get beat.. I mean you dont expect to hold your own against Rodgers and his receivers 1 on 1 no matter who you are..

He sucks and has to go... Its not that im panicking after 4 games, its that you can see his failure is inevitable and guaranteed.

You can wait until he posts a 3-13 record before you agree and say"well he has officialy sucked as a bronco now" or you can have some FORESIGHT and see this guy is wasting our time.

Did you even watch NFL ball before 2 years ago? Weren't you busy watching Florida ball?

[NightTerror218]

meanwhile SF is 3-1 under harbaugh... ALEX SMITH FFS... dont under estimate the power of the HC... if hes good then he will make his blah into bling.

But they also have some good players on the team.... a good RB, TE, and OL. And on defense. He had depth in positions. harbaugh had a good place to start, good foundation for team. Fox not so much here. We have the league rejects along with some key players from Shanny's reign.

[GEM]

meanwhile SF is 3-1 under harbaugh... ALEX SMITH FFS... dont under estimate the power of the HC... if hes good then he will make his blah into bling.

They beat the Seahawks, Bengals and and the Eagles. Those teams combined are 4-8. They lost to the Cowboys.

World beaters right there. :lol:

The real challenge for them is the next 2 weeks. Tampa Bay and the Lions.

It could be, but I wouldn't base an argument on beating those teams.

[BroncoStud]

how is that record something to be proud of? barley over 500 isnt enough to keep your job as a high school coach much less an NFL coach...

And I have news for you... this will be the franchise he will use to dip well below 500

Sadly I agree with you. I have no faith in John Fox. My prediction is that he will leave Denver very much below .500 for his career.

[BroncoStud]

But they also have some good players on the team.... a good RB, TE, and OL. And on defense. He had depth in positions. harbaugh had a good place to start, good foundation for team. Fox not so much here. We have the league rejects along with some key players from Shanny's reign.

Yeah but they sucked last year. Harbaugh has made a huge difference in scheme and morale.

[Bullgator]

Did you even watch NFL ball when he coached the panthers?

Yea, I did and his style of play was suited the times. It was no risk ball and it did ok IN THE NINTIES and early 2000s... you wanna bring back the emory and henry too? a smart coach evolves with the times... this guys is NOT SMART.

[Krugan]

As I said in another thread, some of our starters wouldn't even be practice squad material on other teams. We have a few shiny stars, but mostly blah for talent.

53 guys, the talented ones are:

Champ (downside who crushes a hammy almost every season and is out 3-5 games)
Elvis (again can't stay healthy and who can't get past a lot of leverage due to his height.)
Von Miller (ok, he is super shiny and hopefully a sign that we finally have the draft figured out)
Clady (well he used to be a shiny star, not so sure this season)
Kuper (eh, ok, but eh)
Prater (?kicker)
Dawkins (not so much cause in coverage he sucks, but he makes up for it in leadership I guess)
Decker (wowsa)
Lloyd (again wowsa)
Royal (so far is a one year wonder)

Wow....I'm really freaking depressed now. :(

Woodyard is steping up nicely...

Moore is a rookie...

There are good players here, just not as many as it takes I guess.

[LRtagger]

Woodyard has been getting absolutely abused in coverage. He sucks ass. I wish they would get him off the field.

[BroncoStud]

Don't kid yourself, we went man up with a veteran and talented WR corps yesterday with backup CBs. That isn't exactly an innovative approach to defense. If anything, it's blatantly apparent that our scheme yesterday on defense SUCKED, and it didn't put the secondary in a good position to perform well.

Yesterday wasn't just a talent failure, it was a schematic failure as well.

[GEM]

Woodyard is steping up nicely...

Moore is a rookie...

There are good players here, just not as many as it takes I guess.

I didn't name our rookies because they are rookies. I like Woodyard and want him in there in Williams place, but he scares me in coverage. He also needs to make sure he has his guy on the ground when tackling him.

Moore I think will be good, he has a nose for the ball, but I would like to see better tackling out of him.

I like Franklin, but he needs to work on passing blocks.

I definitely see some positives in the rookies, but Von is the only one that is absolutely for sure so far.

:)

[Bullgator]

Woodyard is steping up nicely...

Moore is a rookie...

There are good players here, just not as many as it takes I guess.

there will be never enough talent to cover up the stench of KO and sadly our new coach.

[Bullgator]

Don't kid yourself, we went man up with a veteran and talented WR corps yesterday with backup CBs. That isn't exactly an innovative approach to defense. If anything, it's blatantly apparent that our scheme yesterday on defense SUCKED, and it didn't put the secondary in a good position to perform well.

Yesterday wasn't just a talent failure, it was a schematic failure as well.

like I said... Fox has some egotistical issues IMO.

[Zweems56]

Yea, I did and his style of play was suited the times. It was no risk ball and it did ok IN THE NINTIES and early 2000s... you wanna bring back the emory and henry too? a smart coach evolves with the times... this guys is NOT SMART.

Then you saw him take a 1-15 team to the Superbowl in 2 years, yeah? Running the ball and defending the run is a tried and true method that is still successful to this day. We saw under McDaniels what can happen if you can't run the rock. The Steelers and Ravens flourish under a system that revolves around running the ball and playing great defense. The Bucs won the Superbowl with a great defense and a balanced (if terrible) offense. You don't HAVE to innovate your offense to be effective and win games. What you see right now is a bad TEAM that has been decimated and has very little talent or depth. Don't take your Tebow love and turn it into hatred for the coach that is leaving him on the bench for a more polished quarterback. I want to see Tebow play too, but to say that we're losing because of John Fox is asinine. We're losing because we have a terrible secondary, a terrible defensive line (without Dumervil, and still pretty damn bad with him too), 3/5 terrible offensive linemen, no legitimate running back, a decimated receiving corps., and LASTLY a quarterback that cracks under pressure.

EDIT: And to say that the 90's and 2000's were a time of "no risk ball," is pretty asinine in and of itself. Teams were slinging the ball WAY before 2004

[LRtagger]

Don't kid yourself, we went man up with a veteran and talented WR corps yesterday with backup CBs. That isn't exactly an innovative approach to defense. If anything, it's blatantly apparent that our scheme yesterday on defense SUCKED, and it didn't put the secondary in a good position to perform well.

Yesterday wasn't just a talent failure, it was a schematic failure as well.

Disagree completely. Most of their big passes, we had the correct defense called...even had the #1 receiver double covered and still couldnt keep up. When you double cover a receiver and he catches a 50 yard TD, your talent is lacking.

There were some bad defensive calls, but you cant expect to call a perfect game. Overall I felt the gameplan was solid and kept us close for a half. The backup corners were exposed against the best QB and WR group in the league.

When you lineup guys like Vaughn, Wilhite, Goodman, Dawkins, etc on guys like Jennings, Finley, Driver, Nelson and have Aaron Rogers throwing to them...AND give them 4 extra possessions - it's a wonder they didnt put up 70.

If it's any consolation, we put pressure on Rogers only rushing 3 or 4 most plays.

[Bullgator]

Then you saw him take a 1-15 team to the Superbowl in 2 years, yeah? Running the ball and defending the run is a tried and true method that is still successful to this day. We saw under McDaniels what can happen if you can't run the rock. The Steelers and Ravens flourish under a system that revolves around running the ball and playing great defense. The Bucs won the Superbowl with a great defense and a balanced (if terrible) offense. You don't HAVE to innovate your offense to be effective and win games. What you see right now is a bad TEAM that has been decimated and has very little talent or depth. Don't take your Tebow love and turn it into hatred for the coach that is leaving him on the bench for a more polished quarterback. I want to see Tebow play too, but to say that we're losing because of John Fox is asinine. We're losing because we have a terrible secondary, a terrible defensive line (without Dumervil, and still pretty damn bad with him too), 3/5 terrible offensive linemen, no legitimate running back, a decimated receiving corps., and LASTLY a quarterback that cracks under pressure.

EDIT: And to say that the 90's and 2000's were a time of "no risk ball," is pretty asinine in and of itself. Teams were slinging the ball WAY before 2004

There are different ways to win games... D and ball control can work well IF you are able to do so. WE CLEARLY ARE NOT. also passing for 500 yards can also bust open games and force those type of teams out of their play styles, because who can run the ball when they are down by 21 points? The point is JOHN FOX IS STUBBORN AND INFLEXIBLE. He has ONE style of play and even when he doesnt have the personnel, he still tries to force it.

You can argue with me all you want ill just point to his weekly declining record. you are fighting a losing battle, he SUCKS. he is inflexible and thus doomed to fail.

one appearance in a losing superbowl in 23 years does not solidify you as a good coach.

[Zweems56]

There are different ways to win games... D and ball control can work well IF you are able to do so. WE CLEARLY ARE NOT. also passing for 500 yards can also bust open games and force those type of teams out of their play styles, because who can run the ball when they are down by 21 points? The point is JOHN FOX IS STUBBORN AND INFLEXIBLE. He has ONE style of play and even when he doesnt have the personnel, he still tries to force it.

You can argue with me all you want ill just point to his weekly declining record. you are fighting a losing battle, he SUCKS. he is inflexible and thus doomed to fail.

one appearance in a losing superbowl in 23 years does not solidify you as a good coach.

He's not a bad coach. This team is a bad team. Do me a favor, and point to me some pro bowl caliber players on this team. I'll start with some possibilities Defense - Champ Bailey (injured) Brian Dawkins (old, can't cover, purely motivational) D.J. Williams (hasn't had a great season since his rookie season, barely serviceable anymore), Von Miller (rookie) Elvis Dumervil (recovering from season ending injury, not 100%, coming off ANOTHER injury) This leaves Goodman (old, terrible to boot) a barely serviceable nickel corner starting, a rookie safety in Moore getting burned every play. Joe Mays can play the run but he's slow as molasses and can't cover. We have more terrible DTs than I care to name, and a complete bust in Robert Ayers.

On offense, we'll start with the line. Clady, ex pro-bowl who hasn't returned to form since he tore his patellar tendon. Beadles has been absolute shit, Walton is barely serviceable, Kuper is playing well, but not even close to pro bowl level. Franklin is a rookie that is horrid in pass pro, but definitely can improve. That's 2/5 "good" linemen. Football starts in the trenches, right? How about running backs? Moreno is a 3rd down back who's been masqueraded as a starter because of his draft status since the second he got here. McGahee can get tough yards, but he sure as hell isn't a primary running back. At receiver, we have Lloyd who is a ballerina and PROBABLY a pro bowl level player this year. We have Thomas who hasn't played more than 3 games in a season. Royal is injured again, and hasn't played well since his rookie season (and even at that, it was one great game). Decker looks like he can be a great receiver. He actually gives me more hope than any other receiver on this team. At tight end, we have Daniel freaking Fells, an injured rookie with potential, and another rookie that hasn't done shit yet. I'm not going to go into our quarterback situation because it's been talked to death.

The point of this entire list is that changing our coach or our quarterback isn't going to change our talent. It's not going to increase our talent level. All it's going to do is change the way we lose games.

[Northman]

If it's any consolation, we put pressure on Rogers only rushing 3 or 4 most plays.

Thats actually not a big thing really. Listening today on ESPN they talked about how Rodgers Oline really isnt that good but because Rodgers has such a quick release and gets rid of the ball it gives the implication that the Oline is good.

[GEM]

Disagree completely. Most of their big passes, we had the correct defense called...even had the #1 receiver double covered and still couldnt keep up. When you double cover a receiver and he catches a 50 yard TD, your talent is lacking.

There were some bad defensive calls, but you cant expect to call a perfect game. Overall I felt the gameplan was solid and kept us close for a half. The backup corners were exposed against the best QB and WR group in the league.

When you lineup guys like Vaughn, Wilhite, Goodman, Dawkins, etc on guys like Jennings, Finley, Driver, Nelson and have Aaron Rogers throwing to them...AND give them 4 extra possessions - it's a wonder they didnt put up 70.

If it's any consolation, we put pressure on Rogers only rushing 3 or 4 most plays.

The game got away from us with the Pick 6. Then they score right before the half and right after the half. It all started with the Pick 6 and we couldn't get the momentum back.

[GEM]

There are different ways to win games... D and ball control can work well IF you are able to do so. WE CLEARLY ARE NOT. also passing for 500 yards can also bust open games and force those type of teams out of their play styles, because who can run the ball when they are down by 21 points? The point is JOHN FOX IS STUBBORN AND INFLEXIBLE. He has ONE style of play and even when he doesnt have the personnel, he still tries to force it.

You can argue with me all you want ill just point to his weekly declining record. you are fighting a losing battle, he SUCKS. he is inflexible and thus doomed to fail.

one appearance in a losing superbowl in 23 years does not solidify you as a good coach.


Fisher, Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, Levy....just to name a few. Know what they had in common?

They were fan-*******-tastic coaches who never won a SB.

Is that Fox? Don't know. But don't use the Super Bowl as the equilibrium of a great coach.

[Zweems56]

Fisher, Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, Levy....just to name a few. Know what they had in common?

They were fan-*******-tastic coaches who never won a SB.

Is that Fox? Don't know. But don't use the Super Bowl as the equilibrium of a great coach.

Add cowher to that list up until his last season coaching. Just because you didn't win one at your first stop as a head coach doesn't mean you're not going to.

[Bullgator]

Fisher, Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, Levy....just to name a few. Know what they had in common?

They were fan-*******-tastic coaches who never won a SB.

Is that Fox? Don't know. But don't use the Super Bowl as the equilibrium of a great coach.

I didnt say that if you dont win a SB your not a great coach... i was saying just because you made it to ONE losing SB that doesnt make you a great coach... BIG diff...

let Fox's record speak for itself Gem... hes a .500 coach, who is soon do be in the .400s!!!!! how can you argue against that?!

[Zweems56]

I didnt say that if you dont win a SB your not a great coach... i was saying just because you made it to ONE losing SB that doesnt make you a great coach... BIG diff...

let Fox's record speak for itself Gem... hes a .500 coach, who is soon do be in the .400s!!!!! how can you argue against that?!

And Belichick was .450 in Cleveland over the span of 5 years. Point?

[Bullgator]

He's not a bad coach. This team is a bad team. Do me a favor, and point to me some pro bowl caliber players on this team. I'll start with some possibilities Defense - Champ Bailey (injured) Brian Dawkins (old, can't cover, purely motivational) D.J. Williams (hasn't had a great season since his rookie season, barely serviceable anymore), Von Miller (rookie) Elvis Dumervil (recovering from season ending injury, not 100%, coming off ANOTHER injury) This leaves Goodman (old, terrible to boot) a barely serviceable nickel corner starting, a rookie safety in Moore getting burned every play. Joe Mays can play the run but he's slow as molasses and can't cover. We have more terrible DTs than I care to name, and a complete bust in Robert Ayers.

On offense, we'll start with the line. Clady, ex pro-bowl who hasn't returned to form since he tore his patellar tendon. Beadles has been absolute shit, Walton is barely serviceable, Kuper is playing well, but not even close to pro bowl level. Franklin is a rookie that is horrid in pass pro, but definitely can improve. That's 2/5 "good" linemen. Football starts in the trenches, right? How about running backs? Moreno is a 3rd down back who's been masqueraded as a starter because of his draft status since the second he got here. McGahee can get tough yards, but he sure as hell isn't a primary running back. At receiver, we have Lloyd who is a ballerina and PROBABLY a pro bowl level player this year. We have Thomas who hasn't played more than 3 games in a season. Royal is injured again, and hasn't played well since his rookie season (and even at that, it was one great game). Decker looks like he can be a great receiver. He actually gives me more hope than any other receiver on this team. At tight end, we have Daniel freaking Fells, an injured rookie with potential, and another rookie that hasn't done shit yet. I'm not going to go into our quarterback situation because it's been talked to death.

The point of this entire list is that changing our coach or our quarterback isn't going to change our talent. It's not going to increase our talent level. All it's going to do is change the way we lose games.

Llllisten... you can go through 43 players and tell me your entire team sucks... you can trash your whole franchise to defend KO... but everyone know the TWO MOST IMPORTANT spots are your HC and the your QB... sometimes not in that order... it all starts with them. QB touches the ball every play... if your HC and QB sucks you change them FISRT. cuz the have THE MOST IMPACT.

and then you can talk about the rest.. this team has some problems beyond QB and HC BUT none are more important.

I stil maintain that if not for Fox and KO we would be 3-1 and it would be hard to argue against that.

So you can trash the broncos in favor of fox and KO but wont.

[Bullgator]

And Belichick was .450 in Cleveland over the span of 5 years. Point?

Point is he got BETTER not WORSE over 20 years

[Zweems56]

Llllisten... you can go through 43 players and tell me your entire team sucks... you can trash your whole franchise to defend KO... but everyone know the TWO MOST IMPORTANT spots are your HC and the your QB... sometimes not in that order... it all starts with them. QB touches the ball every play... if your HC and QB sucks you change them FISRT. cuz the have THE MOST IMPACT.

and then you can talk about the rest.. this team has some problems beyond QB and HC BUT none are more important.

I stil maintain that if not for Fox and KO we would be 3-1 and it would be hard to argue against that.

So you can trash the broncos in favor of fox and KO but wont.

Why are you here exactly? Right. You've watched this team for 2 years. You don't know shit about the quarterback controversies we've had before this one, and honestly, it wouldn't matter to you if you did. I want to see Tebow play too, but to dismiss the rest of the team's problems for the sake of one player is just ridiculous.


Point is he got BETTER not WORSE over 20 years

You can't even get your goddamn facts straight. He's been a head coach in the league for LESS THAN 10 years.

[Bullgator]

I was talking about Belichick momo.

[Lancane]

Fisher, Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, Levy....just to name a few. Know what they had in common?

They were fan-*******-tastic coaches who never won a SB.

Is that Fox? Don't know. But don't use the Super Bowl as the equilibrium of a great coach.

Sadly Gem you're arguing/fighting a losing battle, the coaches you mentioned are some of the best to coach the game at a certain point and time, and were far above Fox's capability. In fact you don't want it to be so, because if what Bullgator is saying is true then this team is in deeper shit then people yet realize. It's not that his record screams mediocrity, it's the fact that his decision making reeks of it! If this was the 80's or even the 90's, when running the ball was so detrimental and defense was the key to victory then Fox would probably be a Hall of Fame coach just like Levy and Reeves. But this isn't the 80's or the 90's, this is a completely different league, that's evident...remember in the 80's a 300 yard passing game was considered an excellent game, but now it's almost considered passable, we have quarterbacks averaging 350, having 400 yard plus passing games - defenses which take risks and are not as stout are more successful then those of old and running the ball is secondary except for teams who rely on it such as Minnesota and Oakland. Fox has not adjusted to the changes in the league and wants to win with defense and control the ball with a conservative offense...that's not smart football and it's not smart coaching.

I said much of this when we hired him, so far everything I said and was afraid of has held true...but when we're as putrid as Carolina was for most of the past nine seasons, then others will grasp the truth of it. That's why we're seeing younger coaches more successful then veteran head coaches, the younger coaches understand the difference. I can only hope that I am wrong...but keeping McCoy as the offensive coordinator and keeping such a questionable offense overall in place? I'm not optimistic.

[Bullgator]

Sadly Gem you're arguing/fighting a losing battle, the coaches you mentioned are some of the best to coach the game at a certain point and time, and were far above Fox's capability. In fact you don't want it to be so, because if what Bullgator is saying is true then this team is in deeper shit then people yet realize. It's not that his record screams mediocrity, it's the fact that his decision making reeks of it! If this was the 80's or even the 90's, when running the ball was so detrimental and defense was the key to victory then Fox would probably be a Hall of Fame coach just like Levy and Reeves. But this isn't the 80's or the 90's, this is a completely different league, that's evident...remember in the 80's a 300 yard passing game was considered an excellent game, but now it's almost considered passable, we have quarterbacks averaging 350, having 400 yard plus passing games - defenses which take risks and are not as stout are more successful then those of old and running the ball is secondary except for teams who rely on it such as Minnesota and Oakland. Fox has not adjusted to the changes in the league and wants to win with defense and control the ball with a conservative offense...that's not smart football and it's not smart coaching.

I said much of this when we hired him, so far everything I said and was afraid of has held true...but when we're as putrid as Carolina was for most of the past nine seasons, then others will grasp the truth of it. That's why we're seeing younger coaches more successful then veteran head coaches, the younger coaches understand the difference. I can only hope that I am wrong...but keeping McCoy as the offensive coordinator and keeping such a questionable offense overall in place? I'm not optimistic.

me and lacane agreeing cannot be good for the harmony of the universe

[Northman]

I wasnt crazy about Fox coming in but i also understood it really wasnt about a winning tradition as it was more for stability. Bowlen took a gamble on McDaniels and it backfired bigtime. Fox is just here to right the ship and try to get some talent back on the team but i doubt we see him past a 3rd year.

[GEM]

As I said, I wasn't comparing Fox to any of those coaches. Just saying don't use the Super Bowl as the bottom line for successful coaches. ;) I wouldn't put Fox near any of the aforementioned coaches in terms of ability.

[BroncoStud]

John Fox was a good defensive coordinator, he did good things in New York. He had a few good years as a Head Coach. But in the end his record is mediocre and his system is dated. This is a passing league now. Saints, Packers, Patriots, Colts, Chargers, even the Steelers with Big Ben... Those teams sling the football behind open offenses and franchise QBs.

[GEM]

Llllisten... you can go through 43 players and tell me your entire team sucks... you can trash your whole franchise to defend KO... but everyone know the TWO MOST IMPORTANT spots are your HC and the your QB... sometimes not in that order... it all starts with them. QB touches the ball every play... if your HC and QB sucks you change them FISRT. cuz the have THE MOST IMPACT.

and then you can talk about the rest.. this team has some problems beyond QB and HC BUT none are more important.

I stil maintain that if not for Fox and KO we would be 3-1 and it would be hard to argue against that.

So you can trash the broncos in favor of fox and KO but wont.

Trent Dilfer is telling you to shut up right now. :lol:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I wasnt crazy about Fox coming in but i also understood it really wasnt about a winning tradition as it was more for stability. Bowlen took a gamble on McDaniels and it backfired bigtime. Fox is just here to right the ship and try to get some talent back on the team but i doubt we see him past a 3rd year.

Considering his age, that's probably true. It would be great if we could get a guy like Kubiak in here to run the offense. Unfortunately, Fox seems to think he understands what it takes to run a good offensive scheme. :mad:


I can tell you I find it pretty offensive. :laugh:

[BroncoStud]

As I said, I wasn't comparing Fox to any of those coaches. Just saying don't use the Super Bowl as the bottom line for successful coaches. ;) I wouldn't put Fox near any of the aforementioned coaches in terms of ability.

Then why is he here? Isn't it the repsonsibility of Elway and Bowlen to give this franchise the best coach it can, the best talent available, and the best staff possible? I don't get this "he brings stability" argument Elway made in the offseason... A good coach will provide stability.

It's almost like we realize that Fox isn't all that good but we're going to use him to rebuild the roster and babysit the franchise until the next coach comes along. That's stupid. The fans are paying the price for Bowlen's lack of oversight after he fired Shanahan and didn't install the proper organizational structure THEN. We might be a LOT better off today had Bowlen hired Elway in 2008 along with McDaniels, and just had Josh coaching while Elway made personnel decisions.

[Zweems56]

I was talking about Belichick momo.

So you didn't say this just a few posts earlier?


one appearance in a losing superbowl in 23 years does not solidify you as a good coach.

Right.

[Bullgator]

Why are you here exactly? Right. You've watched this team for 2 years. You don't know shit about the quarterback controversies we've had before this one, and honestly, it wouldn't matter to you if you did. I want to see Tebow play too, but to dismiss the rest of the team's problems for the sake of one player is just ridiculous.

Lol! what does any of that have to do with our discussion? why im here? past QB controversies? what in the hell are you talking about?

This thread has nothing to do with TT starting, it has to do with the worst QB/HC combo in the league. Thats a FACT. well shit man if you want to throw out W/L records out why dont we just play for moral victories? Oh shit prolly cuz we lose those too with phantom fumbles, sacks, pick 6s and stupid coaching schemes and pay calls.

You should be ******* embarrassed what these 2 are doing to your beloved team not defending them and pointing the finger at the rest of your team for their failures.

You start at HC then QB and then you can worry about the rest of the team.

I know you cant fire Fox after 4 games but, mark my words he is a CURSE on this franchise and you will experience no winning season with him at the helm, especially with KO under center. who plays at LB pales in comparison.

[GEM]

Then why is he here? Isn't it the repsonsibility of Elway and Bowlen to give this franchise the best coach it can, the best talent available, and the best staff possible? I don't get this "he brings stability" argument Elway made in the offseason... A good coach will provide stability.

It's almost like we realize that Fox isn't all that good but we're going to use him to rebuild the roster and babysit the franchise until the next coach comes along. That's stupid.

It's not stupid when he is all that is really available, he's a yes guy who will build up the defense. He won't make bone headed moves that will cost the team like McDaniels did. They went the polar opposite of McD.

That kind of reaction never works, look at the mortgage crisis.

So most likely, we are looking for a new coach in the next couple years, I really don't expect it to be anyone like McDaniels, young and risk taking. McDaniels did far too much damage for the Broncos to feel comfortable going there again.

[Zweems56]

Sadly Gem you're arguing/fighting a losing battle, the coaches you mentioned are some of the best to coach the game at a certain point and time, and were far above Fox's capability. In fact you don't want it to be so, because if what Bullgator is saying is true then this team is in deeper shit then people yet realize. It's not that his record screams mediocrity, it's the fact that his decision making reeks of it! If this was the 80's or even the 90's, when running the ball was so detrimental and defense was the key to victory then Fox would probably be a Hall of Fame coach just like Levy and Reeves. But this isn't the 80's or the 90's, this is a completely different league, that's evident...remember in the 80's a 300 yard passing game was considered an excellent game, but now it's almost considered passable, we have quarterbacks averaging 350, having 400 yard plus passing games - defenses which take risks and are not as stout are more successful then those of old and running the ball is secondary except for teams who rely on it such as Minnesota and Oakland. Fox has not adjusted to the changes in the league and wants to win with defense and control the ball with a conservative offense...that's not smart football and it's not smart coaching.

I said much of this when we hired him, so far everything I said and was afraid of has held true...but when we're as putrid as Carolina was for most of the past nine seasons, then others will grasp the truth of it. That's why we're seeing younger coaches more successful then veteran head coaches, the younger coaches understand the difference. I can only hope that I am wrong...but keeping McCoy as the offensive coordinator and keeping such a questionable offense overall in place? I'm not optimistic.

And you have Quarterbacks that throw up 400 yards and still lose the game because their team is terrible. Being able to throw 400 yards and 3 touchdowns does not win you games if all your team can do is that. Look no further than the Panthers this season. Cam has 3 games of over 374 yards, and 2 over 400, and they're 1-3.

[BroncoStud]

It's not stupid when he is all that is really available, he's a yes guy who will build up the defense. He won't make bone headed moves that will cost the team like McDaniels did. They went the polar opposite of McD.

That kind of reaction never works, look at the mortgage crisis.

So most likely, we are looking for a new coach in the next couple years, I really don't expect it to be anyone like McDaniels, young and risk taking. McDaniels did far too much damage for the Broncos to feel comfortable going there again.

Well I agree with you on all of that.

[GEM]

Lol! what does any of that have to do with our discussion? why im here? past QB controversies? what in the hell are you talking about?

This thread has nothing to do with TT starting, it has to do with the worst QB/HC combo in the league. Thats a FACT. well shit man if you want to throw out W/L records out why dont we just play for moral victories? Oh shit prolly cuz we lose those too with phantom fumbles, sacks, pick 6s and stupid coaching schemes and pay calls.

You should be ******* embarrassed what these 2 are doing to your beloved team not defending them and pointing the finger at the rest of your team for their failures.

You start at HC then QB and then you can worry about the rest of the team.

I know you cant fire Fox after 4 games but, mark my words he is a CURSE on this franchise and you will experience no winning season with him at the helm, especially with KO under center. who plays at LB pales in comparison.


McD has been the only proven curse on this franchise.

[Bullgator]

So you didn't say this just a few posts earlier?



Right.

Fox has been an NFL coach for 23 years... going back to 89 with the steelers.. to my knowledge in all his coaching he has only been apart of one losing SB.

[Zweems56]

Lol! what does any of that have to do with our discussion? why im here? past QB controversies? what in the hell are you talking about?

This thread has nothing to do with TT starting, it has to do with the worst QB/HC combo in the league. Thats a FACT. well shit man if you want to throw out W/L records out why dont we just play for moral victories? Oh shit prolly cuz we lose those too with phantom fumbles, sacks, pick 6s and stupid coaching schemes and pay calls.

You should be ******* embarrassed what these 2 are doing to your beloved team not defending them and pointing the finger at the rest of your team for their failures.

You start at HC then QB and then you can worry about the rest of the team.

I know you cant fire Fox after 4 games but, mark my words he is a CURSE on this franchise and you will experience no winning season with him at the helm, especially with KO under center. who plays at LB pales in comparison.

What this has to do with the discussion is that you're only here because Tebow is here. If he leaves tomorrow, we'll never see your smiling face around here anymore. You don't give a shit about this team, and you can't look past the quarterback situation. You're blaming the coach for the deficiencies of this team because he's not starting the quarterback that you follow around like a dog. All of your opinions are shaped around your love for Tebow. You don't follow the Broncos, you follow Tim Tebow, and therefore your opinions are tainted and irrelevant.

[Bullgator]

Trent Dilfer is telling you to shut up right now. :lol:

there is only 1 trent dilfer and they won despite him. are you saying that should be the trend? a shitty non-talented non-athletic QB FTW?

[Zweems56]

Fox has been an NFL coach for 23 years... going back to 89 with the steelers.. to my knowledge in all his coaching he has only been apart of one losing SB.

He wasn't a head coach until 2002. Being a defensive coordinator doesn't make you responsible for superbowl appearances. Are you saying that Mike Shanahan was "responsible" for more than 2 superbowls?

[Bullgator]

What this has to do with the discussion is that you're only here because Tebow is here. If he leaves tomorrow, we'll never see your smiling, albeit retarded, face around here anymore. You don't give a shit about this team, and you can't look past the quarterback situation. You're blaming the coach for the deficiencies of this team because he's not starting the quarterback that you follow around like a dog. All of your opinions are shaped around your love for Tebow. You don't follow the Broncos, you follow Tim Tebow, and therefore your opinions are tainted and irrelevant.

Ahh that old nutt again... when your arguments fail you can always lean on that cant you? That im no real fan :lol:

say what you will. I hold fast to my logic and to my knowledge of the NFL(past and present) and would pit that knowledge against the likes of you any day.

My fanhood for TT has nothing to do with 5-21 an 3-17.. facts are facts and this IS the worst combo in the league.

[BroncoStud]

He wasn't a head coach until 2002. Being a defensive coordinator doesn't make you responsible for superbowl appearances. Are you saying that Mike Shanahan was "responsible" for more than 2 superbowls?

Shanahan did more to win the Super Bowl for the 49ers than George Seifert did. Sometimes coordinators matter.

[Bullgator]

He wasn't a head coach until 2002. Being a defensive coordinator doesn't make you responsible for superbowl appearances. Are you saying that Mike Shanahan was "responsible" for more than 2 superbowls?

Being a DC has a great deal to do with success in the playoffs... offense wins games but defenses win.........

[BroncoStud]

By the way, wasn't Fox the defensive coordinator for the Giants when they lost to the Ravens in 2000?

[Zweems56]

Ahh that old nutt again... when your arguments fail you can always lean on that cant you? That im no real fan :lol:

say what you will. I hold fast to my logic and to my knowledge of the NFL(past and present) and would pit that knowledge against the likes of you any day.

My fanhood for TT has nothing to do with 5-21 an 3-17.. facts are facts and this IS the worst combo in the league.

Oh, alright. You're going to go "Toe to toe" with the "likes of me," on knowledge of the team that you've "followed" for 2 years? You have an awfully high opinion of your expertise.

[Bullgator]

By the way, wasn't Fox the defensive coordinator for the Giants when they lost to the Ravens in 2000?

I think your right that 2 losing SB. :D

[GEM]

there is only 1 trent dilfer and they won despite him. are you saying that should be the trend? a shitty non-talented non-athletic QB FTW?

You're the one who keeps bringing up these points when there are NFL facts that prove you wrong.

I didn't say it should be, I said it has happened.

You said SB's define good coaches, I showed many cases where you were absolutely wrong.

Just trying to point out that as you are making points, make sure they aren't completely wrong and proven so by NFL facts.

:shrugs:

[Zweems56]

Being a DC has a great deal to do with success in the playoffs... offense wins games but defenses win.........

No shit. Coordinators have a whole shit ton to do with teams' success, but just like you said, Head Coaches and Quarterbacks get all the blame and glory. By your logic, none of his coordinating experience matters.

[Bullgator]

Oh, alright. You're going to go "Toe to toe" with the "likes of me," on knowledge of the team that you've "followed" for 2 years? You have an awfully high opinion of your expertise.

It is what it is... your cocky in assuming that because my team of choice is Florida that I have no knowledge of the Pro game.

That logic is flawed, one does not begat the other.

[Bullgator]

No shit. Coordinators have a whole shit ton to do with teams' success, but just like you said, Head Coaches and Quarterbacks get all the blame and glory. By your logic, none of his coordinating experience matters.

There you go again.. no one said they dont matter, certainly not I... What I did say was the the HC and QB are the MOST important.

But its funny that our HC is effectively our DC too?

[Zweems56]

It is what it is... your cocky in assuming that because my team of choice is Florida that I have no knowledge of the Pro game.

That logic is flawed, one does not begat the other.

I'm assuming that your 2 years of knowledge of the Denver Broncos is inferior to someone who has followed the team religiously since he was in grade school. No cockiness about it. To assume that in 2 years, your knowledge of a team has surpassed someone who has followed the team for 14 years is the only thing that is flawed and illogical.

[Zweems56]

There you go again.. no one said they dont matter, certainly not I... What I did say was the the HC and QB are the MOST important.

But its funny that our HC is effectively our DC too?

I was pretty sure that our DC was Dennis Allen, as our current defensive scheme matches Allen's a little closer than it does Fox's (which was a rather passive and standard 4-3).

[GEM]

There you go again.. no one said they dont matter, certainly not I... What I did say was the the HC and QB are the MOST important.

But its funny that our HC is effectively our DC too?

Ummm no, that would be the DC Dennis Allen. He came over in the offseason from New Orleans. He does all the play calling on Defense, not Fox.

[Bullgator]

You're the one who keeps bringing up these points when there are NFL facts that prove you wrong.

I didn't say it should be, I said it has happened.

You said SB's define good coaches, I showed many cases where you were absolutely wrong.

Just trying to point out that as you are making points, make sure they aren't completely wrong and proven so by NFL facts.

:shrugs:

Your way off base here gem... I said that 1 losing SB appearance does not = good coach.

I never said that if you dont go to a SB your not a good coach. You are the one trying really hard to make that connection.

Trent Dilfer really? what are you saying you want the 1% Dilfer fluke successes over the 99% reality?

that for every 99% trend i come up with your going to throw a Dilfer at me? lol what does that prove?

[Zweems56]

Your way off base here gem... I said that 1 losing SB appearance does not = good coach.

I never said that if you dont go to a SB your not a good coach. You are the one trying really hard to make that connection.

Trent Dilfer really? what are you saying you want the 1% Dilfer fluke successes over the 99% reality?

that for every 99% trend i come up with your going to throw a Dilfer at me? lol what does that prove?

No it doesn't, but taking a 1-15 team to 11-5 and a superbowl appearance in 2 seasons is pretty damn good.

[Bullgator]

Ummm no, that would be the DC Dennis Allen. He came over in the offseason from New Orleans. He does all the play calling on Defense, not Fox.

great... we dont even get what fox is supposed to be best at... we just get his smug, spiteful tone... id love to slap that shrugging condescending look off his face. and whats up with the same injury report he gives every time in the beginning... its like we cant get that on our own... even he looks like hes tired of saying it. what an automaton.

[Bullgator]

No it doesn't, but taking a 1-15 team to 11-5 and a superbowl appearance in 2 seasons is pretty damn good.

or a fluke. The rest of his record says other wise.

[Bullgator]

BBL... cyas

[GEM]

great... we dont even get what fox is supposed to be best at... we just get his smug, spiteful tone... id love to slap that shrugging condescending look off his face. and whats up with the same injury report he gives every time in the beginning... its like we cant get that on our own... even he looks like hes tired of saying it. what an automaton.

The only thing you are sick of is that Tebow isn't playing and the comments about Orton and Tebow.

Every coach gives an injury report and most of the time they aren't completely honest about it. It's called competition. Pull the record on how often Brady is on NE's injury report. :lol:

The reason I keep pointing those arguments is pointing out that you just don't know much about the NFL.

The only reason you think he's smug is because so far he has refused to put Tebow on the field. If he were to put Tebow on the field, you'd probably be his biggest fan. Even if the Broncos looked like shit in doing so.

[Zweems56]

great... we dont even get what fox is supposed to be best at... we just get his smug, spiteful tone... id love to slap that shrugging condescending look off his face. and whats up with the same injury report he gives every time in the beginning... its like we cant get that on our own... even he looks like hes tired of saying it. what an automaton.

And sadly, you don't even know that about "your" team. You know, when McDaniels was the OC of NE, he called the plays, not Belichick. Also, his DC's call the defensive plays as well. Not all head coaches call the plays of the side that they have expertise on. The reason why "defensive" or "offensive" coaches are even a consideration, is because coaches that are "defensive" or "offensive" coaches tend to lean toward that side of the ball. Call it favoritism, perhaps. Before Fox came here, particularly when Shanny and McD left, the defensive players said that they felt like second class citizens. That's what it's like to play under an "offensive mastermind." That's why our defenses were so terrible for so long. Because our "offensive" coaches made them feel like second class citizens. Shanahan skimped on defense for YEARS, and when he didn't skimp, he brought in big name Free agents that busted. As far as the injury report? All coaches give their injury reports during their Monday press conference. Of course he's tired of saying it. He's tired of having to say it. All coaches are tired of having to say it. If NFL coaches had their way, they'd NEVER give a injury report. Your ignorance is astonishing, honestly.

[Zweems56]

Every coach gives an injury report and most of the time they aren't completely honest about it. It's called competition.
I prefer "gamesmanship" :D

The only reason you think he's smug is because so far he has refused to put Tebow on the field. If he were to put Tebow on the field, you'd probably be his biggest fan. Even if the Broncos looked like shit in doing so.
Studesville for Head Coach!

[GEM]

I prefer "gamesmanship" :D

Studesville for Head Coach!

Tomato....tomoto. :lol:

[Lancane]

Zweem...Gem, what is the most important ability regarding coaching?

The answer is rather simple...it's the facility to adjust, to adapt and evolve. A coach in any sport, whether it's football, basketball or even more mundane based traditional sports like shooto or kendo. A perfect example of this is martial arts, originally martial arts tournaments were held to show the prowess of schools and/or compete to show the value of a martial art over another, yet as time went on the different styles of martial arts to remain competitive against other forms had to change, evolve and adapt different styles into their own. And it's no different for football coaches and that's where Fox is a failure...he might not be calling the defensive plays or running the offense in the same manner, but his coordinators are and in accordance with his philosophy and what he wants as the head coach. That's the issue, he hasn't evolved by learning from his past mistakes, he has not adapted to the current ways of the NFL either and it's not a recipe for success but rather failure. The offense is similar to McDaniels with fewer passing plays and almost identical to the offense he had instilled in Carolina, the same offense that was continually mediocre and met with little success...so why would it be any different here?

McCoy is not that good of a coach, he's a student of some very questionable offensive coordinators, and what made him qualified for the position. Under McDaniels we understood because McDaniels ran the offense, but now? And when heeded to change that mediocre offense in Carolina he refused, not verbally but through his actions and that was eventually what cost him his job. Do you think Shanahan would be successful right now had he not adapted and changed? He learned from his mistakes and I don't see one positive sign that Fox has or is even capable of doing such himself...and that's what makes him a questionable head coach.

[GEM]

That is not why bull is trashing fox. He is trashing fox only because fox is not playing Tebow. I can appreciate and agree somewhat with a lou of the gripes about fox. What i cant get on board with is this Tebow is the only thing that matters mentality.

[BroncoStud]

That is not why bull is trashing fox. He is trashing fox only because fox is not playing Tebow. I can appreciate and agree somewhat with a lou of the gripes about fox. What i cant get on board with is this Tebow is the only thing that matters mentality.

Much like Orton, John Fox was losing a lot of games long before Tebow came along...

[Bullgator]

That is not why bull is trashing fox. He is trashing fox only because fox is not playing Tebow. I can appreciate and agree somewhat with a lou of the gripes about fox. What i cant get on board with is this Tebow is the only thing that matters mentality.

Thats a cop out gem. You cant argue against my point and so you like the rest weakly point to the fact that im a tebow fan...

Fox has mismanaged tebow, having said that, (believe what you will) but tebow has NOTHING to do with my opinion about fox as a head coach.

Its pathetic, really, that thats all you haters have to point to is that Im a tebow fan and because of that i cant know shit about NFL ball :lol:. come up with an interesting argument weaklings.

Fox SUCKS, hes sucked so far and I will AGAIN be proven right over time.

Fox is an inflexible dinosaur and nothing good will come of his tenure here.

[I Eat Staples]

As I said in another thread, some of our starters wouldn't even be practice squad material on other teams. We have a few shiny stars, but mostly blah for talent.

53 guys, the talented ones are:

Champ (downside who crushes a hammy almost every season and is out 3-5 games)
Elvis (again can't stay healthy and who can't get past a lot of leverage due to his height.)
Von Miller (ok, he is super shiny and hopefully a sign that we finally have the draft figured out)
Clady (well he used to be a shiny star, not so sure this season)
Kuper (eh, ok, but eh)
Prater (?kicker)
Dawkins (not so much cause in coverage he sucks, but he makes up for it in leadership I guess)
Decker (wowsa)
Lloyd (again wowsa)
Royal (so far is a one year wonder)

Wow....I'm really freaking depressed now. :(

Don't forget Colquitt!

[sneakers]

Don't forget Colquitt!

Or Lonie Paxton.