Kyle Orton, the sub-30 point QB

[scott.475]

I posted this in the game day discussion earlier:

"Okay, I agree our D was horrible today. But Orton still sucks. Since he came here in 2009 we have only had 5 games where we scored over 30 points, 2 of those were against horrible KC teams. At SOME point you have to have a QB that can keep you in games when your defense can't. And people think Orton is a good QB, laughable. He is a backup in a starter's role, horrifying."

Over the course of what, 35 games now, he has only topped 30 points 5 times? Twice against terrible KC teams, once in a losing effort to the 7-11 Rams, once against the lowly Seahawks, and once against the 2009 Chargers, who finished the year 9-7. The only one of those teams that could be considered good at the time were the Chargers, and they weren't that good.

Fact is, Orton is NOT even a "good" QB. If you don't have a QB that can put the hammer down and score points when needed at least sometimes, one that can make up for the days the defense fails, he is not worth starting. Scoring 30+ to only one good team, and that one being mediocre, over a 35 game period is not a QB that can instill fear in the opposing team, or make teams even have to work hard to game plan around him. He is pathetic! There is no recuperating this guy, Orton defenders have got to be delusional! He shouldn't be a starter ANYWHERE in this league.

Again, I understand our D stunk today, but look around the league. There are plenty of QBs that can captain their teams to wins despite the D's play.

Also, this is not a Tebow homer thing either, I just want Orton to go away!

On the bright side, if I understand Fox right, at least the guys in "the locker room" are staying happy despite their atrocious play because Orton is starting! WOO-FREAKING-HOO!

[Juriga72]

All he does is win.....wel except here that is...12-26 now?

[BroncoStud]

Henne and Big Ben both hurt today. See if Orton would now be willing to go to one of those teams and get a trade done. Get some value for the bum.

[MOtorboat]

I know he's not very good, but you do realize the absurdity of calling him bad because he doesn't score 30 points a game, right?

Just out of curiousity, did you do any research on how many teams average 30 points per game?

[Northman]

Henne and Big Ben both hurt today. See if Orton would now be willing to go to one of those teams and get a trade done. Get some value for the bum.

Unlike Orton, Big Ben plays through ankle sprains.

[Agent of Orange]

30?! Try 20. The offense rarely gets 20 points when he's QB.

[Simple Jaded]

Ortonary is an average starter, he's capable of more than that but if you expect that you're pretty foolish. He's the best Denver can do and l think everybody realizes the kind of team he would need around him to be consistently Top15 in the league.

The best part is, this is the same guy that had everybody excited in 2009, actually he's a much better QB than he had ever been before 2009, you could do much worse than Kyle Orton.

The biggest problem l see is that he just doesn't sell underwear and useless memoirs.......

[scott.475]

I know he's not very good, but you do realize the absurdity of calling him bad because he doesn't score 30 points a game, right?

Just out of curiousity, did you do any research on how many teams average 30 points per game?

Nowhere did I say we need him to average 30 points per games. My point is that, sometimes, it would be nice if we had a QB that could put up 30 points when we need it against decent teams. I didn't look up how many teams average 30 points/game because that was not my point.

[G_Money]

Nowhere did I say we need him to average 30 points per games. My point is that, sometimes, it would be nice if we had a QB that could put up 30 points when we need it against decent teams. I didn't look up how many teams average 30 points/game because that was not my point.

See, now I'm curious. How many points have even terrible QBs put up for bad teams?

Matt Cassel has 8 games over 30 points in the same time frame, for the Chiefs.

Jason Campbell? 10, for the pedestrian Skins and Raiders.

Cutler has 8 for the radically inept Bears offense.

Tarvaris freakin' Jackson has 6 in fewer games.

JaMarcus had 3 in his career, though (31 games) so Orton has him beat. Good for him. :salute:

Not the measure I would use for the man, but it is kinda morbidly hilarious.

~G

[Watchthemiddle]

30?! Try 20. The offense rarely gets 20 points when he's QB.

Exactly..and I am over hearing that Orton needs a running game and great defense to succeed. We had another 100 yard rusher today and still could only put up 17 points for most of the game. If we are all waiting for Orton to get a good running game and great defense, then we will be waiting for a long time because all Orton does is lose in cruntch time anyway. He throws a pick 6 and the team just looks defeated.

[wayninja]

It's not his fault, the green packers home jerseys blend in to the turf. It would be hard NOT to throw picks.

Get him a great O-line, an explosive set of Running backs, an all star tight end, a world class recieving corp, a punishing defense and a hall of fame special team, and he'll do ok.

[Sinthor]

Exactly..and I am over hearing that Orton needs a running game and great defense to succeed. We had another 100 yard rusher today and still could only put up 17 points for most of the game. If we are all waiting for Orton to get a good running game and great defense, then we will be waiting for a long time because all Orton does is lose in cruntch time anyway. He throws a pick 6 and the team just looks defeated.

I'm tired of the excuses for Orton as well. Yes, he'd do fine if he played QB for the 85 Bears, most likely. But he doesn't. We're not going to have that kind of team this year and he's gone next year.

We're rebuilding and have ONE major question mark on the team that needs to be resolved. Put Tebow in SOON just in CASE a miracle happens. Otherwise you can at least evaluate and see if you need to draft another quarterback or not. From what I've seen so far, I think Tebow can perform at Orton's level just fine. If he does better, that's bonus. At least we'll have some exciting plays meanwhile and maybe, just maybe find we've got "the guy" going forward.

[chazoe60]

What I've seen this season is the pre-McD Orton. He's terribly inaccurate, can't function aginst a blitz, has no fire whatsoever, and is absolutely a hinderance to the entire team.

His best attribute, we thought, was that he didn't turn the ball over. This season he's had as many turnovers as TDs. He is easily one of the five or seven worst QBs starting in the NFL right now. Couple him with Foxball's run, run, punt philosophy and we are arguably the most boring and ineffective offense on the planet.


Hey John Elway, if you hated Dan Reeves for his conservitive ways why did you hire a guy who makes him look like Mike Martz? We were down by 25 points and we threw the ball 10 times in the second and third quarters? WTF is that, oh thats right RC, when you're down 25 you gotta keep the defense honest. :laugh:

[Lancane]

I fear that John (Elway) is afraid to make a mistake at the position so he hired the one coach he felt was a safe bet, let's face it a .500 coach is better then a rookie head coach who can not even reach that pinnacle. That's what I believe he was thinking, Dennison was the favorite for the job, everyone felt he was the next head coach, then Elway speaks to Fassel his old buddy and ends up hiring a staff that is comparable to one Fassel would have had in New York? Fassel is the one who recommended Fox, the ties of this coaching staff to Fassel are unquestionable. The head coach was Fassel's defensive coordinator in New York, the Defensive Coordinator is from his former Offensive Coordinator's staff in New Orleans and even the running back coach is a former coach on that New York Giants squad.

Everyone wondered why I was so upset about not hiring Dennison and hiring Fox instead, look at Dennison's offense this year in Houston, now look at our offense and what we've become on both sides of the ball...if anyone tells me that Dennison would have been this bad, they should smack themselves. I guarantee he would have instilled a better offense, we would be utilizing a true zone blocking scheme and Moreno would probably be looking like Foster. And I don't think he could have hired anyone who could have made this defense any worse in truth.

[Shazam!]

I wanted Dennison two years ago, even when I thought McD was an upcoming phenom.

I believe in hiring from within, especially when they are former lifelong Broncos.

[Lancane]

I wanted Dennison two years ago, even when I thought McD was an upcoming phenom.

I believe in hiring from within, especially when they are former lifelong Broncos.

Which Fox isn't nor was McDaniels, and Fox will not fix this team...particularly on offense, that's what eventually got him fired in Carolina.

Dennison should have been handed the reigns after Shanahan was let go, and he should have without question been given the job over Fox this off-season.

[chazoe60]

Yep I wanted Dennison really bad. I think that play action bootleg style of offense would fit Tebow to a Tee. But for some reason Elway decided to go with the safe pick, and we are safely in the bottom four in the NFL. I bet we pick too three or four this year in the draft.

We're going to turn into the Chargers, we're going to adopt their motto "There's always next year".


It's sad when you're looking forward to the offseason much more than the season.

[The Glue Factory]

Get him a great O-line, an explosive set of Running backs, an all star tight end, a world class recieving corp, a punishing defense and a hall of fame special team, and he'll do ok.

Why bother? It would take about the same amount of time and a lot less money to just get a better QB.

[Shazam!]

Why bother? It would take about the same amount of time and a lot less money to just get a better QB.

I smelled the sarcasm a mile away buddy.

[jlarsiii]

I'm tired of the excuses for Orton as well. Yes, he'd do fine if he played QB for the 85 Bears, most likely. But he doesn't. We're not going to have that kind of team this year and he's gone next year.

We're rebuilding and have ONE major question mark on the team that needs to be resolved. Put Tebow in SOON just in CASE a miracle happens. Otherwise you can at least evaluate and see if you need to draft another quarterback or not. From what I've seen so far, I think Tebow can perform at Orton's level just fine. If he does better, that's bonus. At least we'll have some exciting plays meanwhile and maybe, just maybe find we've got "the guy" going forward.

I beg to differ. We have waaaaay more than one major question mark on this team. Anyone who has watched the games played so far this season would know that.

QB, O-line, D-line, secondary, coaching, and playcalling are just a few areas with major question marks. Actually, there really isn't a facet of the team that doesn't have some major questions that need to be addressed to improve this team.

[The Glue Factory]

I smelled the sarcasm a mile away buddy.

It's Monday and it's early. Sarcasm sensors weren't online yet. Especially after only 5 hrs of sleep. :mad:

[BroncoStud]

Yep I wanted Dennison really bad. I think that play action bootleg style of offense would fit Tebow to a Tee. But for some reason Elway decided to go with the safe pick, and we are safely in the bottom four in the NFL. I bet we pick too three or four this year in the draft.

We're going to turn into the Chargers, we're going to adopt their motto "There's always next year".


It's sad when you're looking forward to the offseason much more than the season.

I wanted Rivera. Dennison was my 2nd choice. Yes, Tebow would be amazing in the bootleg offense that Schaub and even Rodgers run. It would be fun to watch and a nightmare for defensive coordinators to defend.

[vandammage13]

I wanted Rivera. Dennison was my 2nd choice. Yes, Tebow would be amazing in the bootleg offense that Schaub and even Rodgers run. It would be fun to watch and a nightmare for defensive coordinators to defend.

We should have made Gruden, Cowher, or Harbaugh an offer they couldn't refuse..

[AlWilsonizKING]

On the first pick 6, Deckers said HE ran the wrong route and put Kyle in a bad spot to throw the ball. The tipped int....lots of qb have that happen to them.

What I am tired of seeing/hearing is how it's Ortons fault we are losing. What about DROPPED PASSES, one should have been a TD but resulted in a fumble and turnover....oh yeah that ones on Orton also.:rolleyes: He's had other great down the field passes that would get our O going, but are called back because of HAND TO THE FACE, or like other games HOLDING CALLS...oh yeah again, Orton is responsible for those as well....:rolleyes:

I feel like because people hate Orton so much, they look over or don't see the MANY other weaknesses on this team...sure it always easier to blame the QB. I'm not an Orton lover, just a Broncos supporter, and I can see that there are more issues than just the QB spot.



PEACE!!!


PEACE!!!

[BroncoStud]

On the first pick 6, Deckers said HE ran the wrong route and put Kyle in a bad spot to throw the ball. The tipped int....lots of qb have that happen to them.

What I am tired of seeing/hearing is how it's Ortons fault we are losing. What about DROPPED PASSES, one should have been a TD but resulted in a fumble and turnover....oh yeah that ones on Orton also.:rolleyes: He's had other great down the field passes that would get our O going, but are called back because of HAND TO THE FACE, or like other games HOLDING CALLS...oh yeah again, Orton is responsible for those as well....:rolleyes:

I feel like because people hate Orton so much, they look over or don't see the MANY other weaknesses on this team...sure it always easier to blame the QB. I'm not an Orton lover, just a Broncos supporter, and I can see that there are more issues than just the QB spot.



PEACE!!!


PEACE!!!

It all starts at QB. To deny that is to ignore that past 3 decades of NFL football.

[TXBRONC]

On the first pick 6, Deckers said HE ran the wrong route and put Kyle in a bad spot to throw the ball. The tipped int....lots of qb have that happen to them.

What I am tired of seeing/hearing is how it's Ortons fault we are losing. What about DROPPED PASSES, one should have been a TD but resulted in a fumble and turnover....oh yeah that ones on Orton also.:rolleyes: He's had other great down the field passes that would get our O going, but are called back because of HAND TO THE FACE, or like other games HOLDING CALLS...oh yeah again, Orton is responsible for those as well....:rolleyes:

I feel like because people hate Orton so much, they look over or don't see the MANY other weaknesses on this team...sure it always easier to blame the QB. I'm not an Orton lover, just a Broncos supporter, and I can see that there are more issues than just the QB spot.



PEACE!!!


PEACE!!!

Ok and Orton said he thought he could put ball out there far enough Woodson couldn't get to it. I feel that people who defend Orton never want acknowledge his mistakes. When people criticize the guy it's always it's not all Orton's fault. There are more problems this team than just Orton. It's just as easy look the other way as it is just focus on Orton. Orton said before the season started he's not a back up he's starter in this League. If he's going to talk the talk he better frickin walk the walk.

[AlWilsonizKING]

Ok and Orton said he thought he could put ball out there far enough Woodson couldn't get to it. I feel that people who defend Orton never want acknowledge his mistakes. When people criticize the guy it's always it's not all Orton's fault. There are more problems this team than just Orton. It's just as easy look the other way as it is just focus on Orton. Orton said before the season started he's not a back up he's starter in this League. If he's going to talk the talk he better frickin walk the walk.

And I get tired of everyone thinking a change in QB is going to solve our MANY OTHER problems. Like catching balls that are right there, penalties that bring huge gains back, fumbles after the catch (that Orton threw). I don't see any threads about Fells and his fumble that cost us a TD which would have put us right back in the game, no it's always about Orton and how he LOST the game for us. Lame is you ask me.

Or those who want to lose for a draft pick.:rolleyes:


PEACE!!!

[Mike]

Good frickin grief.

I don't know which is worse McD or bum apologists.

[GEM]

And I get tired of everyone thinking a change in QB is going to solve our MANY OTHER problems. Like catching balls that are right there, penalties that bring huge gains back, fumbles after the catch (that Orton threw). I don't see any threads about Fells and his fumble that cost us a TD which would have put us right back in the game, no it's always about Orton and how he LOST the game for us. Lame is you ask me.

Or those who want to lose for a draft pick.:rolleyes:


PEACE!!!

I don't think anyone expects anything other than finding out what we have at the position with a change. Should we go into the offseason not knowing what Tebow can do, not draft a QB and find out next season that QB is a huge issue? Or should we make the change, find out what Tebow really is and then go into the draft with a full understanding of the absolute necessities for this team?

I don't expect Tebow to light it up and win a lot of games. Why? Because the rest of the team is still defunct of talent. But if we can mark off that we don't need a QB, we can spend our draft picks recreating talent that isn't there. If we do need a QB, we can move on from the Tebow stuff and get a QB who is going to lead a team that is low on talent and start improving. Orton won't be here so we won't build around him. We are rebuilding and Orton is not part of the rebuild, so let's all stop wasting our time and putting the future further on the back burner.

[Agent of Orange]

On the first pick 6, Deckers said HE ran the wrong route and put Kyle in a bad spot to throw the ball. The tipped int....lots of qb have that happen to them.

What I am tired of seeing/hearing is how it's Ortons fault we are losing. What about DROPPED PASSES, one should have been a TD but resulted in a fumble and turnover....oh yeah that ones on Orton also.:rolleyes: He's had other great down the field passes that would get our O going, but are called back because of HAND TO THE FACE, or like other games HOLDING CALLS...oh yeah again, Orton is responsible for those as well....:rolleyes:

I feel like because people hate Orton so much, they look over or don't see the MANY other weaknesses on this team...sure it always easier to blame the QB. I'm not an Orton lover, just a Broncos supporter, and I can see that there are more issues than just the QB spot.



PEACE!!!


PEACE!!!

It was good of Decker to do that. Decker knows how to be a good teammate. Too bad Orton wouldnt do the same for him.

[Agent of Orange]

I don't think anyone expects anything other than finding out what we have at the position with a change. Should we go into the offseason not knowing what Tebow can do, not draft a QB and find out next season that QB is a huge issue? Or should we make the change, find out what Tebow really is and then go into the draft with a full understanding of the absolute necessities for this team?

I don't expect Tebow to light it up and win a lot of games. Why? Because the rest of the team is still defunct of talent. But if we can mark off that we don't need a QB, we can spend our draft picks recreating talent that isn't there. If we do need a QB, we can move on from the Tebow stuff and get a QB who is going to lead a team that is low on talent and start improving. Orton won't be here so we won't build around him. We are rebuilding and Orton is not part of the rebuild, so let's all stop wasting our time and putting the future further on the back burner.

This is a very sensible post, Gem. But its occurred to many that the EFX has no intention of playing Tebow because they want to draft a QB and they fear he'll play well and make it hard to justify drafting a QB (who would be "their" guy).

[GEM]

This is a very sensible post, Gem. But its occurred to many that the EFX has no intention of playing Tebow because they want to draft a QB and they fear he'll play well and make it hard to justify drafting a QB (who would be "their" guy).

Unfortunately, I have taken that into consideration. I think they are then playing with fire because it throws their whole transparency thing in the garbage. It's also playing with fire because who is to say who their guy would be and what if he's a complete bust. That's a whole lot of chances to be taken and I don't really like the odds. But I'm just a stupid fan who doesn't seem to know more than the almighty EFX. :lol:

[TXBRONC]

And I get tired of everyone thinking a change in QB is going to solve our MANY OTHER problems. Like catching balls that are right there, penalties that bring huge gains back, fumbles after the catch (that Orton threw). I don't see any threads about Fells and his fumble that cost us a TD which would have put us right back in the game, no it's always about Orton and how he LOST the game for us. Lame is you ask me.

Or those who want to lose for a draft pick.:rolleyes:


PEACE!!!

Everyone? There are some that probably feel like changing quarterbacks would cure all of Denver's ills but they are few and far between. Why don't you start a thread concerning Fells' fumble if you think it's that important? Personally, I think his fumble wasn't anywhere near as costly as Orton's pick six because at the point his fumble came the game was already out of hand. Also those that want Denver to lose to get Andrew Luck are a minority group.

It isn't always the case but at times it sure seems like those that criticize the ones that criticize Orton try to try to turn into an issue of loyalty. Pointing out Orton's short coming over other issues doesn't make them disloyal nor does it mean they don't see the other issues.

He is the starting quarterback and he's made the claim he's starter material. I don't have a problem with him saying it but he's going right catch hell for it because he isn't coming close to backing it up with his play.

[Agent of Orange]

Unfortunately, I have taken that into consideration. I think they are then playing with fire because it throws their whole transparency thing in the garbage. It's also playing with fire because who is to say who their guy would be and what if he's a complete bust. That's a whole lot of chances to be taken and I don't really like the odds. But I'm just a stupid fan who doesn't seem to know more than the almighty EFX. :lol:

I agree. Another thing it does, which ties into your transparency point, is it reveals Elway to be a liar since he said something along the lines of any coach who was anti-Tebow wouldnt be the right coach for the Broncos. When you look at Fox's comments, it becomes apparent that he holds disdain for Tebow and sets him up to fail so the fans will shut up.

And I agree with you. If they end up getting Luck, that's one thing. If its someone like Barkley, you're dead on. But even if they do end up getting Luck, it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth to see people treated this way.

[Northman]

I don't think anyone expects anything other than finding out what we have at the position with a change. Should we go into the offseason not knowing what Tebow can do, not draft a QB and find out next season that QB is a huge issue? Or should we make the change, find out what Tebow really is and then go into the draft with a full understanding of the absolute necessities for this team?

I don't expect Tebow to light it up and win a lot of games. Why? Because the rest of the team is still defunct of talent. But if we can mark off that we don't need a QB, we can spend our draft picks recreating talent that isn't there. If we do need a QB, we can move on from the Tebow stuff and get a QB who is going to lead a team that is low on talent and start improving. Orton won't be here so we won't build around him. We are rebuilding and Orton is not part of the rebuild, so let's all stop wasting our time and putting the future further on the back burner.

^This

[AlWilsonizKING]

I don't think anyone expects anything other than finding out what we have at the position with a change. Should we go into the offseason not knowing what Tebow can do, not draft a QB and find out next season that QB is a huge issue? Or should we make the change, find out what Tebow really is and then go into the draft with a full understanding of the absolute necessities for this team?


Maybe, just maybe, the coaches who are paid by the NFL and see these players every day, know more than we do....just maybe. Maybe they see things we don't that help them make the choice to keep Orton out there and Tebow on the sidelines. Maybe they already want to draft/trade for a new QB and don't want to play Tebow.

The thing that drives me crazy, is that people seem to be blaming ONE player on a TEAM. I used to have these same arguments with people who were sick and tired of losing the SB with Elway. Yet he finally got a full team to help and look what happened......our TEAM sucks this year, not just the QB, so changing that one position will do nothing to improve it. I just wish we would have never drafted Tebow just because the circus it's created.


PEACE!!!

[Northman]

Maybe, just maybe, the coaches who are paid by the NFL and see these players every day, know more than we do....just maybe. Maybe they see things we don't that help them make the choice to keep Orton out there and Tebow on the sidelines. Maybe they already want to draft/trade for a new QB and don't want to play Tebow.

The thing that drives me crazy, is that people seem to be blaming ONE player on a TEAM. I used to have these same arguments with people who were sick and tired of losing the SB with Elway. Yet he finally got a full team to help and look what happened......our TEAM sucks this year, not just the QB, so changing that one position will do nothing to improve it. I just wish we would have never drafted Tebow just because the circus it's created.


PEACE!!!

Wouldnt matter. If we had Andrew Luck on this squad there would still be plenty clamoring for him to play. Your still missing the main point Gem was making and that is its not about whether or not Tebow can be better or worse than Orton. Its about whether or not he can be the future.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think anyone expects anything other than finding out what we have at the position with a change. Should we go into the offseason not knowing what Tebow can do, not draft a QB and find out next season that QB is a huge issue? Or should we make the change, find out what Tebow really is and then go into the draft with a full understanding of the absolute necessities for this team?

I don't expect Tebow to light it up and win a lot of games. Why? Because the rest of the team is still defunct of talent. But if we can mark off that we don't need a QB, we can spend our draft picks recreating talent that isn't there. If we do need a QB, we can move on from the Tebow stuff and get a QB who is going to lead a team that is low on talent and start improving. Orton won't be here so we won't build around him. We are rebuilding and Orton is not part of the rebuild, so let's all stop wasting our time and putting the future further on the back burner.


^This

I think it's inevitable that Tebow will get onto field at some point. I also think it will be with a significant amount games so that he can be evaluated.

[Northman]

I think it's inevitable that Tebow will get onto field at some point. I also think it will be with a significant amount games so that he can be evaluated.

Hopefully.

[weazel]

yup, Orton really needs to learn not to arm tackle!

LMFAO!! you're gonna shit on Orton because this horrible team lost to Green Bay? What did you think was going to happen yesterday? We were gonna put up 50 points on them? LOL Orton hate is funny!!

Listen, I dont care who is throwing the ball but this is stupid

[Northman]

yup, Orton really needs to learn not to arm tackle!

LMFAO!! you're gonna shit on Orton because this horrible team lost to Green Bay? What did you think was going to happen yesterday? We were gonna put up 50 points on them? LOL Orton hate is funny!!

Listen, I dont care who is throwing the ball but this is stupid


Discussing the problems on the team is stupid? I thought that was kind of what this forum was for?

[weazel]

Discussing the problems on the team is stupid? I thought that was kind of what this forum was for?

no, blaming everything wrong with this team on Orton is ridiculous... now he sucks because he didnt throw up 30+ on Green Bay? it's just silly
This team sucks, its not a mystery

[TXBRONC]

yup, Orton really needs to learn not to arm tackle!

LMFAO!! you're gonna shit on Orton because this horrible team lost to Green Bay? What did you think was going to happen yesterday? We were gonna put up 50 points on them? LOL Orton hate is funny!!

Listen, I dont care who is throwing the ball but this is stupid

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you criticized Cutler for the samething as well many other thing you seem to be ignoring when it comes to Orton?

[GEM]

yup, Orton really needs to learn not to arm tackle!

LMFAO!! you're gonna shit on Orton because this horrible team lost to Green Bay? What did you think was going to happen yesterday? We were gonna put up 50 points on them? LOL Orton hate is funny!!

Listen, I dont care who is throwing the ball but this is stupid

Orton needs to learn to throw the ball to his players and over a defensive line.

The problem is that the other positions that are seriously lacking don't have backups that could be starters. Orton's position does.

If Cassius Vaughn had a backup that could be playing better than him, I'd be clamoring to see what he had. If Vickerson had a backup that could be playing better than him, I'd be clamoring to see what he had. Same with Ayers, Beadles, possibly Waldon, etc. Same with the God awful TE corps. There is just no quality backups on this talentless team.

There aren't even question marks. Tim Tebow is a question mark. One that needs to be answered before the start of the next season.

Let's pile on to protect a QB who won't even be on this roster next season. Smart move.

Orton isn't the ONLY reason, he's just among the list of MANY. Those others don't have anyone behind them. Orton does.

[Northman]

no, blaming everything wrong with this team on Orton is ridiculous... now he sucks because he didnt throw up 30+ on Green Bay? it's just silly
This team sucks, its not a mystery

Oh, the topic is way off i agree, points created by the QB has very little to do with Orton's particular prolbem. But most people on the forum understand there are other problems on this team outside of Kyle. But he does share a major brunt of the problem no doubt about it when it comes to the offense itself.

[weazel]

Orton needs to learn to throw the ball to his players and over a defensive line.

The problem is that the other positions that are seriously lacking don't have backups that could be starters. Orton's position does.

If Cassius Vaughn had a backup that could be playing better than him, I'd be clamoring to see what he had. If Vickerson had a backup that could be playing better than him, I'd be clamoring to see what he had. Same with Ayers, Beadles, possibly Waldon, etc. Same with the God awful TE corps. There is just no quality backups on this talentless team.

There aren't even question marks. Tim Tebow is a question mark. One that needs to be answered before the start of the next season.

Let's pile on to protect a QB who won't even be on this roster next season. Smart move.

it really doesn't... not any more than any other position

[weazel]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it you criticized Cutler for the samething as well many other thing you seem to be ignoring when it comes to Orton?

you're forgetting one thing... Im not saying he should start. In fact I have repeated a few times that they should throw Tebow in there.

I just think its funny as hell that with all that is wrong with this team, the only thing people see is Ortons flaws... its hilarious.

Play Tebow, like I said... I dont care whos throwing the ball... either way, this team is not winning.

[Northman]

you're forgetting one thing... Im not saying he should start. In fact I have repeated a few times that they should throw Tebow in there.

I just think its funny as hell that with all that is wrong with this team, the only thing people see is Ortons flaws... its hilarious.

Play Tebow, like I said... I dont care whos throwing the ball... either way, this team is not winning.


Well, thats just it. No one is saying its ALL his fault. The defense and ST's take plenty of the blame but the problem when talking about the current state of affairs is that its a young team with no depth whatsover. However, in our QB who is a 7 year vet you would expect more than you would a young guy at the helm. People are willing to take the lumps this year but would much rather see it done with Quinn or Tebow.

[GEM]

it really doesn't... not any more than any other position

Do you know this positively or are you just taking it from a guy like Hodges mouth?

:lol: Doll, that is a sheep mentality. I don't believe it because some moron who said that Leaf was going to mind numbingly good said so. I will see it for myself and if I don't, I won't believe it til I do.

[Mike]

no, blaming everything wrong with this team on Orton is ridiculous... now he sucks because he didnt throw up 30+ on Green Bay? it's just silly
This team sucks, its not a mystery

Nobody is blaming the entire loss on the bum. The team sucks with or without the bum. We lose more than we win with bum and we aren't getting into the playoffs with him. So it is time to move on, rebuild, evaluate, and see what parts we have that are worth keeping and in the meanwhile getting our young players some valuable game time experience.

I could care less if we lose with the young kids. We certainly aren't winning with the old guys.

[weazel]

whatever helps us get Luck... I dont give a crap either way

[vandammage13]

you're forgetting one thing... Im not saying he should start. In fact I have repeated a few times that they should throw Tebow in there.

I just think its funny as hell that with all that is wrong with this team, the only thing people see is Ortons flaws... its hilarious.

Play Tebow, like I said... I dont care whos throwing the ball... either way, this team is not winning.

No one has realistic expectations that this team would miraculously become a playoff team this year if Tebow were the QB.

People want a change because Orton has proven not to be the QB for us going forward and they want to see if Tebow can be that guy.

In a lost season, see what the young guy has...Because with every snap Orton takes it is another lost opportunity for evaluating what young talent you have and building for the future.

[weazel]

No one has realistic expectations that this team would miraculously become a playoff team this year if Tebow were the QB.

People want a change because Orton has proven not to be the QB for us going forward and they want to see if Tebow can be that guy.

In a lost season, see what the young guy has...Because with every snap Orton takes it is another lost opportunity for evaluating what young talent you have and building for the future.

I agree

[TXBRONC]

you're forgetting one thing... Im not saying he should start. In fact I have repeated a few times that they should throw Tebow in there.

I just think its funny as hell that with all that is wrong with this team, the only thing people see is Ortons flaws... its hilarious.

Play Tebow, like I said... I dont care whos throwing the ball... either way, this team is not winning.

But this exactly what you did with Cutler but you never criticized anyone that jumped all over him.

[I Eat Staples]

Good frickin grief.

I don't know which is worse McD or bum apologists.

McD by far. We wouldn't have the latter without the former.

[weazel]

But this exactly what you did with Cutler but you never criticized anyone that jumped all over him.

hmmm... I never criticized Cutler's play, I criticized his attitude when he didnt want to be a Bronco

[TXBRONC]

hmmm... I never criticized Cutler's play, I criticized his attitude when he didnt want to be a Bronco

Ok but when have you criticized Orton for not wanting to be Bronco? He said he didn't want to be in Denver if he can't be the starter.

[weazel]

Ok but when have you criticized Orton for not wanting to be Bronco? He said he didn't want to be in Denver if he can't be the starter.

any quarterback that would rather stay somewhere to be a backup shouldnt be a quarterback... of course he wanted to go elsewhere LOL

I know you're trying to bait me into an argument, Im just not biting... the fact is I dont give a crap about any of the QB's on this team, they all suck. I just find it funny how the first thing people do after a loss is whine about the QB. This game was lost all over the field, not just at the hands of the QB. It's jsut getting really old, we have 30 threads on the same thing...

I even agreed with you that we should just start Tebow but it wasnt good enough for you, you tried to bait me into another argument LOL... argue with someone else man, I'm just not in that state of mind right now.

[GEM]

any quarterback that would rather stay somewhere to be a backup shouldnt be a quarterback... of course he wanted to go elsewhere LOL

I know you're trying to bait me into an argument, Im just not biting... the fact is I dont give a crap about any of the QB's on this team, they all suck. I just find it funny how the first thing people do after a loss is whine about the QB. This game was lost all over the field, not just at the hands of the QB.

I even agreed with you that we should just start Tebow but it wasnt good enough for you, you tried to bait me into another argument LOL... argue with someone else man, I'm just not in that state of mind right now.

Ummmmm...you started the argument by saying that everyone was blaming Orton entirely for the whole loss. That wasn't the case. Then you said you agreed with everyone that Tebow should be starting and back pedaled. :confused:

[weazel]

Ummmmm...you started the argument by saying that everyone was blaming Orton entirely for the whole loss. That wasn't the case. Then you said you agreed with everyone that Tebow should be starting and back pedaled. :confused:

backpedaled? I have stated on many threads they should start Timmy. hwo is that backpedaling? :confused: those are cute...

I started by saying it wasnt ALL Ortons fault and found it funny that every loos is pinned on him. LOL After every game there are 20 more threads on how we should bench Orton... it just gets old.

[BroncoStud]

Cutler was one of the few in Dove Valley that smelled Josh McDaniels stench coming from a mile away. I don't blame him for not wanting to be a part of it. In hindsight he was absolutely right. Orton is the net result.

[weazel]

Cutler was one of the few in Dove Valley that smelled Josh McDaniels stench coming from a mile away. I don't blame him for not wanting to be a part of it. In hindsight he was absolutely right. Orton is the net result.

hindsight is awesome... 20/20 hey?

[slim]

Cutler was one of the few in Dove Valley that smelled Josh McDaniels stench coming from a mile away. I don't blame him for not wanting to be a part of it. In hindsight he was absolutely right. Orton is the net result.

Let's not get carried away.

Cutler threw a tantrum because he didn't get what he wanted (his OC got fired). Let's not make it out to be any more than that.

[TXBRONC]

any quarterback that would rather stay somewhere to be a backup shouldnt be a quarterback... of course he wanted to go elsewhere LOL

I know you're trying to bait me into an argument, Im just not biting... the fact is I dont give a crap about any of the QB's on this team, they all suck. I just find it funny how the first thing people do after a loss is whine about the QB. This game was lost all over the field, not just at the hands of the QB. It's jsut getting really old, we have 30 threads on the same thing...

I even agreed with you that we should just start Tebow but it wasnt good enough for you, you tried to bait me into another argument LOL... argue with someone else man, I'm just not in that state of mind right now.

No I'm trying to bait you into anything. I just pointing out your hypocrisy.

[BroncoStud]

hindsight is awesome... 20/20 hey?

It wasn't hindsight to Cutler, he did it THEN.

[weazel]

Let's not get carried away.

Cutler threw a tantrum because he didn't get what he wanted (his OC got fired). Let's not make it out to be any more than that.

quite honestly, the reason I criticized Cutler so much for wanting out is because I really liked him and thought he was the real deal. The whole saga was just lame... hurricane mcdaniels ruined this team for years

[GEM]

backpedaled? I have stated on many threads they should start Timmy. hwo is that backpedaling? :confused: those are cute...

I started by saying it wasnt ALL Ortons fault and found it funny that every loos is pinned on him. LOL After every game there are 20 more threads on how we should bench Orton... it just gets old.

If we could bench 7 players on offense and 6 on defense and have a backup to take their place, we would see a lot more of those threads. Unfortunately this team doesn't have that kind of depth.

[chazoe60]

People need to realize there is a difference between criticizing Orton amd blaming EVERYTHING on him.

Orton is part of the team. Orton sucks. The vast majority of Bronco fans want him gone. But only the crazy few are saying it's all his fault. Only the most blinded dopes would think this team is playoff worthy with one of our backups starting, but none of that means Orton doesn't blow goats for cheese, because he does.

[GEM]

It's a weak argument, therefore instead of actually arguing if Orton is bad enough to be benched, some would rather bypass and argue if Orton is just part of the problem or all of the problem. Which isn't the argument to begin with.

[BroncoStud]

There really are no long-term advantages to playing Kyle Orton. He's a goner next season either way, he isn't even playing well. Justifying him remaining the starter because he "had a perfect 2nd quarter" is absurd. Mr. Fox, there are 4 quarters in a typical NFL game, 25% ain't good enough. But with both Fox's and Orton's win/loss records over the last 20 games each, 25% would be an improvement.

[Traveler]

No one has realistic expectations that this team would miraculously become a playoff team this year if Tebow were the QB.

People want a change because Orton has proven not to be the QB for us going forward and they want to see if Tebow can be that guy.

In a lost season, see what the young guy has...Because with every snap Orton takes it is another lost opportunity for evaluating what young talent you have and building for the future.

Anyone with the expectation this team would be very competitive this season is living in wonderland. We are playing more organized team defense with better fundamentals. We are just devoid of talent and depth.

Yesterday, I fully expected a blowout by GB and it turned out that way.
The defense is playing better than they have the last two years. We just don't have the talent to match up with the elite teams, as I stated above.

My problem thus far is that it makes no sense to me to play Orton when we are in a multi-year team rebuild.

GEM laid the issues out more succinctly and I agree wholeheartedly. I'll add a few others.

We are where we are with Orton for a myriad of reasons, most notably:

1). Lack of an offseason for the players to learn the new offensive and defensive schemes.

2). Tebow not being able to work with the coaches has stunted his growth in possibly becoming a pro-style QB.

3). The failed trade of Orton to the Dolphins ( mostly due his outrageous contract demands).

So what next? It's almost to the point in the season where EFX will have to play Tebow. Hopefully after the bye week.

Fox's "best chance to win" mantra will ring more hollow than is does now when we are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.

It will a case of pure negligence by the FO if they enter the offseason and have no clue of what Tebow's potential might be running a pro-style offense.

[NightTerror218]

Anyone with the expectation this team would be very competitive this season is living in wonderland. We are playing more organized team defense with better fundamentals. We are just devoid of talent and depth.

Yesterday, I fully expected a blowout by GB and it turned out that way.
The defense is playing better than they have the last two years. We just don't have the talent to match up with the elite teams, as I stated above.

My problem thus far is that it makes no sense to me to play Orton when we are in a multi-year team rebuild.

GEM laid the issues out more succinctly and I agree wholeheartedly. I'll add a few others.

We are where we are with Orton for a myriad of reasons, most notably:

1). Lack of an offseason for the players to learn the new offensive and defensive schemes.

2). Tebow not being able to work with the coaches has stunted his growth in possibly becoming a pro-style QB.

3). The failed trade of Orton to the Dolphins ( mostly due his outrageous contract demands).

So what next? It's almost to the point in the season where EFX will have to play Tebow. Hopefully after the bye week.

Fox's "best chance to win" mantra will ring more hollow than is does now when we are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.

It will a case of pure negligence by the FO if they enter the offseason and have no clue of what Tebow's potential might be running a pro-style offense.


The reason for hiring Elway was to appease the fan base and bring the franchise back from disgrace. Claiming transparency and being up front with fans.

I have not seen this with EFX. I see them feeding us crap to our faces. They are subborn and still not making the best personnel decisions (FA signing and not pursuing some). I understand that we have many holes but they claim we are not rebuilding. They claim the QB controversy has not entered entered Dove Valley/SA@MH/locker room. Claimed they had a QB completion when Orton got 100% 1st team reps.

Last thorn in the side was throwing TT to the wolves at GB to run up the middle and Fox claiming they tried to use TT and he lost a yard so decided to go a different direction. Seriously.....low blow to fans who support a QB change IMO.

I know we are not going to be a playoff contender. But I was hoping to see improvement from a 4-12 season. I see a team that could be worse. I see a coach who is stubborn and will not "give in" to the fans so who rather feed us "best chance to win line". An executive who is learning on the run. A GM who does not know how to evaluate talent.

[Northman]

The saddest thing about all this is that its really unfair to Orton. Yes i know, he is getting paid but the reality is Fox and company have put the onus and expectation on him to carry a young rebuilding team. Orton isnt that kind of QB and it brings a lot of unecessary wrath down on him because of his limitations. To further add to Orton's woes, he should of done everything he could to get traded. His stock is going to plummet this year and he will not come near to the type of contract he would of gotten had he tried to work with Miami. Fox and Elway really did Kyle a disservice by starting him this year instead of letting him back up Quinn or Tebow.

[echobravo]

Finally realized who Orton reminds me of. Think back to the 90s in KC and the crappy QB they tried to win with. That's right, Orton is the modern day Elvis Grbac!!

[GEM]

Finally realized who Orton reminds me of. Think back to the 90s in KC and the crappy QB they tried to win with. That's right, Orton is the modern day Elvis Grbac!!

That's giving him too much credit. He's more like this:

alX0FKoUYoc


:D

Kyle Orton when Ray Lewis looks at him:

PPze_HDJtc8

[MOtorboat]

Finally realized who Orton reminds me of. Think back to the 90s in KC and the crappy QB they tried to win with. That's right, Orton is the modern day Elvis Grbac!!

That's probably a decent comparison, although I think a better comp to Orton is Brad Johnson.

But, rather than discuss this, I'll quietly walk away and let people make shit up and compare him to a goat.

[Juriga72]

But, rather than discuss this, I'll quietly walk away and let people make shit up and compare him to a goat.

Ok....

"Kyle Orton JUST wins games"....

How'd I do??

[MOtorboat]

Ok....

"Kyle Orton JUST wins games"....

How'd I do??

Well, you're doing good at making things up.

I was wrong about him two years ago, I'll admit that. I think we could see that in about week 5 last year.

But, sad as it may be, this team may have to resort to the quarterback that gives them the best chance to win, even though we all know it doesn't matter, because they won't win.

[Juriga72]

Well, you're doing good at making things up.

I was wrong about him two years ago, I'll admit that. I think we could see that in about week 5 last year.

But, sad as it may be, this team may have to resort to the quarterback that gives them the best chance to win, even though we all know it doesn't matter, because they won't win.

I am ALL for Brady Quin going out there this week.... After watching that pick six..yet again being tossed.... THEN him walking with his head down looking at his feet..... I say screw him... Put Brady in

[MOtorboat]

I am ALL for Brady Quin going out there this week.... After watching that pick six..yet again being tossed.... THEN him walking with his head down looking at his feet..... I say screw him... Put Brady in

I'm all for change, I just don't think it's going to make anything better. In fact, I think, if this even possible, it could make it worse (which some would argue is better :cough:cough:luck:cough:cough:)

[rcsodak]

Fail



I know he's not very good, but you do realize the absurdity of calling him bad because he doesn't score 30 points a game, right?

Just out of curiousity, did you do any research on how many teams average 30 points per game?

Nowhere did I say we need him to average 30 points per games. My point is that, sometimes, it would be nice if we had a QB that could put up 30 points when we need it against decent teams. I didn't look up how many teams average 30 points/game because that was not my point.

[I Eat Staples]

The saddest thing about all this is that its really unfair to Orton. Yes i know, he is getting paid but the reality is Fox and company have put the onus and expectation on him to carry a young rebuilding team. Orton isnt that kind of QB and it brings a lot of unecessary wrath down on him because of his limitations. To further add to Orton's woes, he should of done everything he could to get traded. His stock is going to plummet this year and he will not come near to the type of contract he would of gotten had he tried to work with Miami. Fox and Elway really did Kyle a disservice by starting him this year instead of letting him back up Quinn or Tebow.

Unlike most on here, I don't think Orton is a terrible QB, although I'm much lower on him this year than last. He's just average, and he could manage a game for a good team, but that isn't what we need. He has little chance of winning with this team because he can't carry a team himself and we don't have any pieces around him.

That said, he isn't nearly good enough to build a team around. He's a plug-and-play option, and he has no future here. Playing him doesn't help our team now or in the future.

[TXBRONC]

Unlike most on here, I don't think Orton is a terrible QB, although I'm much lower on him this year than last. He's just average, and he could manage a game for a good team, but that isn't what we need. He has little chance of winning with this team because he can't carry a team himself and we don't have any pieces around him.

That said, he isn't nearly good enough to build a team around. He's a plug-and-play option, and he has no future here. Playing him doesn't help our team now or in the future.

Terrible no but average/journeyman yes.

[chazoe60]

Fail

If anyone can recognize Fail it would be the guy who told me The reason we only threw 10 passes in the second and third quarters while we were down by 25 was because we had to "keep the defense honest". :laugh:

[I Eat Staples]

If anyone can recognize Fail it would be the guy who told me The reason we only threw 10 passes in the second and third quarters while we were down by 25 was because we had to "keep the defense honest". :laugh:

Well to be fair, I used to hate when McD would abandon the run completely. I think you do have to mix the run in even if you're down big. However, throwing only 10 passes during that stretch was far too few.

I also think you should get creative with the run plays, maybe mix in some draws or sweeps. Pounding the ball up the middle for a gain of 3 isn't very helpful.