On a scale of 1-10, what is the volume of the fanbase over the QB situation after GB?

[Agent of Orange]

Fox made an interesting comment after the game about trying to play Tebow but giving up on him because he lost a yard. There seemed to be an element of hoping this would make the fanbase be quiet about the Tebow situation. Unfortunately for Fox, it's probably the opposite. It seems like this is probably going to come back at him but this time, with interest. Ive been listening to the radio and the calls about Orton are nonstop.

So, I ask: where do you think the volume is on a scale of 1-10 in terms of people being unhappy with the QB situation (whether its more about benching Orton or playing Tebow)?


It just seems like everything they try to do, to insulate Orton and themselves from the rampant criticism is going to blow up in their faces until something is done.

[sneakers]

This thread makes my brain hurt. Too much math.

[Tned]

11.6

[BroncoStud]

I'm more disgusted with our coaching staff than Orton. I already knew beyond the shadow of doubt Orton sucked, I'm just starting to realize how bad Fox, McCoy, and possibly Allen suck.

[Agent of Orange]

I'm more disgusted with our coaching staff than Orton. I already knew beyond the shadow of doubt Orton sucked, I'm just starting to realize how bad Fox, McCoy, and possibly Allen suck.

Id be careful here. We were outmanned by Green Bay. In every other game, we've been in a position to win. Obviously, we haven't. This can probably call Fox's stubbornness into question, since a lot falls on Orton in these situations. But when you look at what Allen has done, the defense has done an OK job in 3/4 games and even against Green Bay, they were without Champ and had a bunch of guys just coming back from injury.

[shank]

tebow lost yard, get him out of there.

orton throws 3 picks, give him cookie.

[Simple Jaded]

I rate the QB situation at about a.......1.......or a 10.......l think.

Again l'm totally confused.

Go Tebow! God Bless.......

[Simple Jaded]

tebow lost yard, get him out of there.

orton throws 3 picks, give him cookie.

Romo threw 3 Int's, l wonder if Dallas would be interested in Denver's 3rd string QB?.......

[MOtorboat]

It ought to tell people how bad Tebow is. Ya'll continue with the pipe dream...

Considering that the poll question makes zero sense, I guess I'll say 3. What does 3 mean?

Is that Tebow's ability to read an NFL defense?

[Juriga72]

Someone remind me again......"How many pick sixes did Tebow throw today?"

[BroncoStud]

I haven't found anyone on this roster than can read a defense yet. Orton keys on his primary read, all of his big plays are just watching the 1st read until he gets open and hoping he has the time to do so. Kyle Orton knows 2 reads. Primary and checkdown. That's all.

Tebow apparently doesn't even know that. But at least he can run and find someone open in the secondary.

[MOtorboat]

Someone remind me again......"How many pick sixes did Tebow throw today?"

None?!

Did I get the question right?

If Tebow plays, Denver wins by 20!!!

[Shananahan]

It ought to tell people how bad Tebow is. Ya'll continue with the pipe dream...

Considering that the poll question makes zero sense, I guess I'll say 3. What does 3 mean?

Is that Tebow's ability to read an NFL defense?
I don't feel I have any misconceptions or unrealistic hopes about what Tebow is as a QB right now, but I'm pretty sure I'd rather watch anything but the futility that is Orton.

I generally like your takes around here, but I honestly don't know why'd you'd prefer to believe that Tebow is really as bad as his lack of playing time indicates.

[Davii]

I don't feel I have any misconceptions or unrealistic hopes about what Tebow is as a QB right now, but I'm pretty sure I'd rather watch anything but the futility that is Orton.

I generally like your takes around here, but I honestly don't know why'd you'd prefer to believe that Tebow is really as bad as his lack of playing time indicates.

He may be that bad... But until he shows it on the field nobody is willing to accept the tragedy that is KO.

[TXBRONC]

It ought to tell people how bad Tebow is. Ya'll continue with the pipe dream...

Considering that the poll question makes zero sense, I guess I'll say 3. What does 3 mean?

Is that Tebow's ability to read an NFL defense?

It doesn't a tell us a thing about Tebow one way or the other.

[Shananahan]

He may be that bad... But until he shows it on the field nobody is willing to accept the tragedy that is KO.
I'd prefer to at least know, I think. I mean, I could easily watch Tebow shit all over himself for a game and then sit back, nod sadly and steel myself for more Orton. It would at least take some of the frustration out of Orton's play.

[Northman]

I'd prefer to at least know, I think. I mean, I could easily watch Tebow shit all over himself for a game and then sit back, nod sadly and steel myself for more Orton. It would at least take some of the frustration out of Orton's play.

Indeed.

One guy is a 7 year vet who shits himself. I would rather go down in flames with Tebow than Orton.

[MOtorboat]

It doesn't a tell us a thing about Tebow one way or the other.

Actually, it should. It should tell you that as bad as Orton is, a veteran NFL coach thinks Tebow is worse.

[BeefStew25]

Indeed.

One guy is a 7 year vet who shits himself. I would rather go down in flames with Tebow than Orton.

That is called the Pedophile Theory.

I would rather suck young than old.

[sneakers]

If orton looks really good in practice and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

[Northman]

If orton looks really good in practice and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

No. Its silent but deadly.

[BeefStew25]

If orton looks really good in practice and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

It is like a WNBA game.

[sneakers]

It is like a WNBA game.

But with smaller tits.

[Northman]

The scale is as follows:

Orton: -7
Tebow: +1
Quinn: 0

[TXBRONC]

Actually, it should. It should tell you that as bad as Orton is, a veteran NFL coach thinks Tebow is worse.

I don't know if it should tell me that or not since I'm not privy to the coaches meetings.

[TXBRONC]

The scale is as follows:

Orton: -7
Tebow: +1
Quinn: 0

You're being overly generous to Orton. :D

[Krugan]

11, because its louder than 10.

[Nomad]

All this adversity and gloom makes me want to listen to the 8-mile soundtrack.:D

I will say today is the first time i fell asleep during a BRONCOS game...during the day!:tsk:

[Clipworthy]

Orton is a great quarterback.*


*Subject to interpretation. Wins not taken into consideration. Statistics may be misleading. Fumbles, 3-and-outs and sacks by wind not included. Ability largely based on practice.

[jhildebrand]

The highlight of the broncos this season is me coming here and seeing a different Northman avi. :tsk:

[G_Money]

If Tebow was Matt Stafford, the volume would be 11. He's not.

But no one really knows what he IS. Other than the NFL Coaching Staff (tm) as pointed out by Mo. The same offensive staff that draws up their plays in crayon and fingerpaint, as far as I can tell, and the same head coach who is deathly afraid of the dangers of this new-fangled forward passing rule.

I dunno. I'm not outraged that Tebow isn't starting, but I don't understand the point of Orton starting.

Play Tim, let the fans either figure out he sucks or let the staff figure out that he's just gonna make shit up and win ballgames and they need to work around that.

By NOT playing him, all they do is ratchet the noise level louder every game. If Orton throws more pick-sixes against the Chargers it's gonna get deafening. If they believe Tim can't play, then at 1-4 the division race is basically over. We're not getting in the playoffs. If we lose next week, at home, to another division rival...

What does it hurt to play him? The worst possible thing for this staff would be to let Tim play for 3 games at the end of the year and have him show a glimmer of success. If he's gonna be terrible, let him be terrible for 10+ games to demonstrate why we're getting a new QB in the draft.

If he's not terrible...then why isn't he playing?

I don't have a lot of anger toward Fox over it, but Orton sure makes me apathetic about Sundays. The purpose of this year is to build a better culture and determine who can help us going forward.

Orton isn't helpful in either respect, and since he's not gonna help us win (partly because we're an under-manned team and partly because pulling winning games out of his hat is not in his skillset), why is he out there?

Next game should be a fun gauge of the fanbase, though. Turn up the volume and listen in if and when we fall behind.

~G

[Northman]

If Tebow was Matt Stafford, the volume would be 11. He's not.

But no one really knows what he IS. Other than the NFL Coaching Staff (tm) as pointed out by Mo. The same offensive staff that draws up their plays in crayon and fingerpaint, as far as I can tell, and the same head coach who is deathly afraid of the dangers of this new-fangled forward passing rule.

I dunno. I'm not outraged that Tebow isn't starting, but I don't understand the point of Orton starting.

Play Tim, let the fans either figure out he sucks or let the staff figure out that he's just gonna make shit up and win ballgames and they need to work around that.

By NOT playing him, all they do is ratchet the noise level louder every game. If Orton throws more pick-sixes against the Chargers it's gonna get deafening. If they believe Tim can't play, then at 1-4 the division race is basically over. We're not getting in the playoffs. If we lose next week, at home, to another division rival...

What does it hurt to play him? The worst possible thing for this staff would be to let Tim play for 3 games at the end of the year and have him show a glimmer of success. If he's gonna be terrible, let him be terrible for 10+ games to demonstrate why we're getting a new QB in the draft.

If he's not terrible...then why isn't he playing?

I don't have a lot of anger toward Fox over it, but Orton sure makes me apathetic about Sundays. The purpose of this year is to build a better culture and determine who can help us going forward.

Orton isn't helpful in either respect, and since he's not gonna help us win (partly because we're an under-manned team and partly because pulling winning games out of his hat is not in his skillset), why is he out there?

Next game should be a fun gauge of the fanbase, though. Turn up the volume and listen in if and when we fall behind.

~G

As usual great post and on the money.

[jhildebrand]

What does it hurt to play him?

Like you said, he could make some shit up and win games. I don't think this team wants to win games. Had Marvin Lewis taken the kid gloves off of Dalton a little sooner (Dalton will be good in this league) that may have been a loss!



The worst possible thing for this staff would be to let Tim play for 3 games at the end of the year and have him show a glimmer of success. If he's gonna be terrible, let him be terrible for 10+ games to demonstrate why we're getting a new QB in the draft.

Very well stated.




If he's not terrible...then why isn't he playing?


There is a BIG danger in playing TT in more than 3 conciliatory games this season. Should TT come in and play well enough to win games-even if it is winning ugly then there will be some serious heat on the FO and coaching staff and their ability to judge QB's. With a HOF QB as the GM, I can assure you the media won't go lightly about it either and nor should they! There would also be the issue of the VY effect. Remember when TN finally played him and it was a game too late. He won 8 of 8 or whatever. Again this franchise would be questioned and they wouldn't have too many answers.

[Clipworthy]

Everyone on this team, from the field to the front office, will be saved if Tebow turns out to be good. They should all be fearing for their jobs as it stands now.

[cardoso]

It ought to tell people how bad Tebow is. Ya'll continue with the pipe dream...

Considering that the poll question makes zero sense, I guess I'll say 3. What does 3 mean?

Is that Tebow's ability to read an NFL defense?

Such an idiotic post. What did you see in tebow's 3 games last year and 4 preseason games thus year that makes you think tebow sucks? Get your head out your ass.

[G_Money]

Nobody's job is in immediate jeopardy, IMO. McCoy's should be, but I didn't want him back anyway. He runs the offense Fox wants, though, so he'll be fine through this year.

It's a process. Fixing this mess is definitely a process, and it'll take longer than a year, let alone 3 games. Nobody fired Jim Schwartz when he went 2-14 with the Lions his first year, because everybody understood there was work to do there.

There's work to do here. I'd just prefer if they get the mook outta the QB position and at least give me a learning curve worth caring about at the position.

~G

[Day1BroncoFan]

If orton looks really good in practice and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Yes, it does. It echos into the regulay season and is still drowns all hope. :D

[Watchthemiddle]

Actually, it should. It should tell you that as bad as Orton is, a veteran NFL coach thinks Tebow is worse.

No...what is says is that if you go back and watch the 3 games Tebow started last season, he doesn't play near as bad as some (you) want to make it out to be.

What it also says is we have a HC who is stubborn and doesn't not want to make himself look bad when Tebow actually gives us a competitve chance to win.

So I guess you will be happy if we go 1-15 with Orton, never knowing what we have in Tebow and go into the offseason in the dark?

[Watchthemiddle]

Like you said, he could make some shit up and win games. I don't think this team wants to win games. Had Marvin Lewis taken the kid gloves off of Dalton a little sooner (Dalton will be good in this league) that may have been a loss!



Very well stated.



There is a BIG danger in playing TT in more than 3 conciliatory games this season. Should TT come in and play well enough to win games-even if it is winning ugly then there will be some serious heat on the FO and coaching staff and their ability to judge QB's. With a HOF QB as the GM, I can assure you the media won't go lightly about it either and nor should they! There would also be the issue of the VY effect. Remember when TN finally played him and it was a game too late. He won 8 of 8 or whatever. Again this franchise would be questioned and they wouldn't have too many answers.

To build off of this post, if we do win games with TT at the helm, do we really need to spend a top 10 pick on a QB next year?

As we can see based off of todays game and many others, we currently have a QB who will lose more games for us then win, lead an offense that can barely score 20 points, and a Defense that needs help as well.

So logic would tell you, and many of us, to play the kid..see what we have...and if it doesn't work out go get a QB in the draft. If it works out, draft ALL defense and a running game...and not waste a pick on a QB.

[Sinthor]

Here's my theory on why Orton's starting over Tebow:

If you look at QB situations throughout history, name the rookie or 2nd year QB's who have "beat out" a decent, established vet in order to take the starting job, and I mean really beat out the other guy, before the start of the season. Not many, eh? I can think of Dan Marino maybe as being the last one? Usually, the only way a team starts a new guy is if they really have NO good options at QB other than that player or if there's an injury. That's the only way it's happened in recent history. Look at the Jets, Ravens, Falcons, Steelers and look at this year's Titans and Jaguars. Heck, Gabbert was 3rd string behind Luke McCown until Garrard was cut and McCown did HORRIBLY. That coach is also definitely on the hot seat for this year, so that makes him more willing to gamble.

So there it is as regards young QB's. All the people saying that "Tebow sucks or he'd be playing" or "He couldn't beat out Orton" need to realize that. This staff has consistently said, and repeated today that while Orton has been judged based on past years, they want to judge under THIS system, now. They've said this before about people having a clean slate, etc. Bottom line, it's VERY RARE for a rookie or 2nd year guy to take over as QB for a team when they have a stable vet of any decent quality, and Orton is, despite detractors, a decent QB. He's recognized as such.

So we have that factor and then we have the lockout. I believe the lockout made many staffs a little more sensitive to player issues. It's still business, but sensitive. Orton is the Broncos union rep. They tried to trade him and go with Tebow. They failed. That being the case, they were stuck with letting Orton play himself out of the job, if he was going to. That seems to be happening. I think they were more sensitive to possible player feelings as well if after the failed trade they had given the job to Tebow over the established, union rep, player. Now Orton's definitely playing himself out of the job which will give management the backup they need to replace him. Hopefully they will sooner or later.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying Tebow will save the season or that he will be an elite franchise QB. I'm just saying we will get the chance to see, like the FO wanted to in the beginning of the season. They know as well that ultimately, they need to see if TT will succeed or fail on the field and they need a decent number of games to evaluate him with. Players will buy the change because he's not a guy that hasn't played or even won a game before and they know and responded very well to him last year. They'll also see that Orton got more than enough rope with which to hang himself and proceeded to do so.

A change at QB will also kick the team in the pants. It will tell team members that EVERYONE needs to step up. It will tell them that poor performance is not acceptable, no matter how established you are. That can be a good thing for a team, especially sometimes for a team that's on the verge of establishing a losing tradition, which the Broncos seem to be.

This is the part of things that I don't think fans have understood from the start and why the volume to make a change at quarterback have been about an 11 or 12 on the 1-10 scale and will probably reach about a 15 during the SD game next week. Now we'll see exactly what plans this coaching staff does or does not have.

[wayninja]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

[Northman]

Usually, the only way a team starts a new guy is if they really have NO good options at QB other than that player or if there's an injury.

Denver doesnt have any really good options though thats the thing. The other problem with your theory is that of those QB's who got to compete all of them played with the starters for more than a few snaps both in practice and in preseason. Cam didnt just use backups before starting this year. He had a legitimate chance to use the starters as equally as the other QB's on the roster. The problem with Denver is they basically said to Tebow, you get to work with a wet paper sack and Orton gets to use the plastic.

[sneakers]

Meanwhile in Denver....

http://dubsism.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/kyle-orton-with-blond.jpg?w=500&h=375

[Sinthor]

Denver doesnt have any really good options though thats the thing. The other problem with your theory is that of those QB's who got to compete all of them played with the starters for more than a few snaps both in practice and in preseason. Cam didnt just use backups before starting this year. He had a legitimate chance to use the starters as equally as the other QB's on the roster. The problem with Denver is they basically said to Tebow, you get to work with a wet paper sack and Orton gets to use the plastic.

Well, like him or not, Kyle Orton is considered to be an average QB. Like an average starting QB. So that's not the same as the situation you brought up with Carolina. Who did Carolina have? Not ONE established real starter type guy. They had Jimmy Claussen who did HORRIBLY last year, and I mean horribly. Then they had the late pickup of Derek Anderson who's proved he's not a starter in the league. So it was pretty much handing it to Newton.

Denver had an average guy. So it went to him. Like I said before, even Bradford wouldn't have been starting if AJ Feely hadn't gone down. The coaching staff even said that. They'd planned on at least letting Bradford learn the system during the year and MAYBE starting him during the season at some point if he caught on. And that was with AJ Feely. Look at Ponder and Locker...not starting, although if McNabb keeps laying eggs Ponder may get his shot early.

My point is just that young guys almost never start in the league when there's any option deemed "serviceable" otherwise. In those situations they have to wait till the starter plays himself out of a job like Orton's doing or wait till the starter goes down to injury. That's the way it works across the league. I don't know why so many Bronco fans are set on on "Tebow sucks" when he didn't end up doing what almost no one else gets to do. The other guys like Newton, Flacco, Ryan, Sanchez..all had it handed to them.

***Edited to add this***

I think Sanchez right now would probably lose out to Mark Brunell if they had an actual quarterback competition. They won't because they've handed it to Sanchez, but if they did...it would be interesting. I'd actually hoped that when they traded Orton, they'd try to steal Brunell from the Jets to mentor Tebow. Same style of play basically, left handed and he'd be a great mentor. There IS no mentor on the staff right now to help either Quinn or Tebow. Orton's made it clear he has no interest in that and won't do it.

[Lancane]

It's not Orton's fault that he sucks ass so bad that two fan bases have literally turned on him, it's not Tebow's fault that he's such a polarizing figure as both a person and a player, nor that Coach Fox is so conservative that he's downright anal which he's already proven elsewhere and continues to be here.

Where do you rate this screwed up situation? Elway is deaf to the fans and criticism, much like how Bowlen has been most of the time since he fired Mike Shanahan. Fox himself is as stubborn as they come in this day and age, and just as deaf as Elway and Bowlen seem to be. I think literally that Xanders may be the only one who isn't deaf to it, but is so much entangled with the other two that he dare no make a mistake since so many already question him and likely to be a scapegoat figure should shit go wrong - that's not saying he's a quality general manager, but I see him as a sniveling GM that would listen to the fans to make them happy considering how much of their ire he's already received to date.

It's rather simple in my honest opinion though, if Orton is so much of a debate then you eliminate that aspect of it; trade him while you still can, no matter how much you've paid him...he still has some value, even if it's only for a fifth round pick. Indianapolis, Oakland, Seattle and possibly Miami would still be interested given a lesser price tag to add him. I think most of the fan base at this point would rather sink or swim with someone else at the helm then to continue down the mediocre pathways with Orton...and I for one don't care what the locker room opinion is on the matter, at 1-3 and for those who've been here losing before now, most of them should shut the hell up and be grateful they have positions.

[UnderArmour]

If we get off to a slow start against San Diego or play like we did last week and get our asses kicked, it's going to be a long day for Orton in Denver. I'm tired of watching blowouts. Granted, to stand a chance last week we needed Champ back and we needed Squid. We'll definitely be adding some cornerback help next offseason. But, when we start 1-3 and go 4-12 last year and 8-8 the year before that after starting 6-0, the quarterback has to take some of the blame.

As far as the volume goes, at least an 8 and getting louder. 1-3 records where we lose multiple games on offense in the 4th quarter just don't cut it no matter how good your stats are. The Tebow chants and the boos will be unbearable if Broncos don't play lights out. If the team is REALLY behind Orton like they say to the press, they'll rally around him and dominate on Sunday.

[MOtorboat]

Such an idiotic post. What did you see in tebow's 3 games last year and 4 preseason games thus year that makes you think tebow sucks? Get your head out your ass.

What did I see? A quarterback who can't read defenses, can't go from progression to progression at all and a quarterback who can barely complete 50 percent of his passes. I'm not the one with my head stuck up my ass in this situation. I hope Tebow proves me wrong, but right now I really doubt it,

A point to something G said about an offensive staff afraid of the forward pass...they are throwing it 60 percent of the time G, and it's not just because we're trailing. Leading against the Titans they were chucking the ball around. The problem I see is a lack of consistency in playcalling. Last week, against Tennessee, early in the game they spread it out at the goalline and score two touchdowns. Later in the game, they try to bull their way into the endzone out of a tight set on four plays, and it doesn't work. Yet, somehow they thought a tight set with Tebow would work this week? It didn't and Fox abandoned it quickly. In the redzone they try two screens and kick a field goal. Then they spread it out and score. I think at this point they need to abandon the tight sets. They don't have the offensive line to do that.

But that won't benefit Tebow once he comes in, unless he gets a whole lot better at going from progression to progression. They don't have the offensive line, no matter which quarterback is back there, to go 60 percent run, and that doesn't bode real well for a sophomore quarterback who's much better at operating a run heavy offense. Part of this, you would think,is also about setting Tebow up to succeed, not just throwing him out there to throw him out there.

[TXBRONC]

If we get off to a slow start against San Diego or play like we did last week and get our asses kicked, it's going to be a long day for Orton in Denver. I'm tired of watching blowouts. Granted, to stand a chance last week we needed Champ back and we needed Squid. We'll definitely be adding some cornerback help next offseason. But, when we start 1-3 and go 4-12 last year and 8-8 the year before that after starting 6-0, the quarterback has to take some of the blame.

As far as the volume goes, at least an 8 and getting louder. 1-3 records where we lose multiple games on offense in the 4th quarter just don't cut it no matter how good your stats are. The Tebow chants and the boos will be unbearable if Broncos don't play lights out. If the team is REALLY behind Orton like they say to the press, they'll rally around him and dominate on Sunday.

Absolutely Orton has to take some of them blame.

[BroncoStud]

It's not Orton's fault that he sucks ass so bad that two fan bases have literally turned on him, it's not Tebow's fault that he's such a polarizing figure as both a person and a player, nor that Coach Fox is so conservative that he's downright anal which he's already proven elsewhere and continues to be here.

Where do you rate this screwed up situation? Elway is deaf to the fans and criticism, much like how Bowlen has been most of the time since he fired Mike Shanahan. Fox himself is as stubborn as they come in this day and age, and just as deaf as Elway and Bowlen seem to be. I think literally that Xanders may be the only one who isn't deaf to it, but is so much entangled with the other two that he dare no make a mistake since so many already question him and likely to be a scapegoat figure should shit go wrong - that's not saying he's a quality general manager, but I see him as a sniveling GM that would listen to the fans to make them happy considering how much of their ire he's already received to date.

It's rather simple in my honest opinion though, if Orton is so much of a debate then you eliminate that aspect of it; trade him while you still can, no matter how much you've paid him...he still has some value, even if it's only for a fifth round pick. Indianapolis, Oakland, Seattle and possibly Miami would still be interested given a lesser price tag to add him. I think most of the fan base at this point would rather sink or swim with someone else at the helm then to continue down the mediocre pathways with Orton...and I for one don't care what the locker room opinion is on the matter, at 1-3 and for those who've been here losing before now, most of them should shut the hell up and be grateful they have positions.

Henne's hurt in Miami now, the Colts need a QB, and Big Ben is in a walking boot. See what someone would be willing to pay for Orton. Hell, I might even consider trading Tebow to the Dolphins, they might be willing to overpay and give us trade ammunition for the offseason to move up and grab a QB.

[Tned]

Henne's hurt in Miami now, the Colts need a QB, and Big Ben is in a walking boot. See what someone would be willing to pay for Orton. Hell, I might even consider trading Tebow to the Dolphins, they might be willing to overpay and give us trade ammunition for the offseason to move up and grab a QB.

At 0-4, Miami isn't going to trade for a QB making $9 million in the last year of his contract.

[BroncoStud]

At 0-4, Miami isn't going to trade for a QB making $9 million in the last year of his contract.

You don't think Orton would be willing to renegotiate now that the pressure is coming down on him to this degree? I think he has a lot more reason to do it now than he did before the season.

[TXBRONC]

You don't think Orton would be willing to renegotiate now that the pressure is coming down on him to this degree? I think he has a lot more reason to do it now than he did before the season.

No I don't.

[AlWilsonizKING]

Someone remind me again......"How many pick sixes did Tebow throw today?"

Tony Romo threw 2 of them today...Cowboys should drop the bum.


PEACE!!!

[Lancane]

Tony Romo threw 2 of them today...Cowboys should drop the bum.


PEACE!!!

If Orton was even half the quarterback Romo was people would be far less adamant about replacing him...alas he is not, end of story!

[AlWilsonizKING]

Absolutely Orton has to take some of them blame.

It would seem that he is taking 99% of the blame, when ther is plenty to go around.


PEACE!!!

[Northman]

Actually Romo is pretty average as well. He's a poor man's Vinny Testeverde. But he and Orton are very much alike, both can make plays here and there and then both can cost you games. Romo has cost the Cowboys 2 wins this year on his own. With the 4th ranked defense you need better and smarter play from your QB. I wouldnt be surprised if Dallas looks at a young QB in the draft next year.

[jhildebrand]

Here's my theory on why Orton's starting over Tebow:

If you look at QB situations throughout history, name the rookie or 2nd year QB's who have "beat out" a decent, established vet in order to take the starting job, and I mean really beat out the other guy, before the start of the season. Not many, eh?

Ted Thompson in Green Bay unceremoniously shipped out Brett Favre while he still had a few good years left in him. Think about the stones that took

AJ Smith sent Brees off into FA so Rivers could take the field.

Cam Newton beat out Clausen but that isn't saying much. McNabb was traded so Kolb could start.

This theory that the QB needs to "earn the job" is bogus as I could name more starting QB's who were simply handed the job.

[GEM]

None?!

Did I get the question right?

If Tebow plays, Denver wins by 20!!!

You're the only one saying that ridiculous notion. No one believes Tebow comes in and lights it up. You keep saying it over and over, yet you are the ONLY ONE SAYING IT. No one here thinks that.

Put Tebow in to see what we have in him because if he isn't the answer and you don't squash the notion that he could be, you have lost a good portion of your fanbase. Will they be back, yea. But you've also thrown transparency out the window.

Keep saying what you WANT to believe instead of listening to those that are saying it. It makes it easier to hold your position if you are making this stupid shit up instead of listening to those of us saying that we don't think it will make us instant winners, but if we're going to lose, let's see what the kid has. Orton does not give us the best chance to win, if he did, we'd have more than one win in this season.

[jhildebrand]

What did I see? A quarterback who can't read defenses, can't go from progression to progression at all and a quarterback who can barely complete 50 percent of his passes. I'm not the one with my head stuck up my ass in this situation. I hope Tebow proves me wrong, but right now I really doubt it,

Again, most of these arguments pertain as much to Orton as they do TT. The problem is one is a 7 year vet and the other is basically a rookie.

Orton was a 51% passer his rookie year. In fact he has only cracked the 60% completion mark once in his career!

Reads? :confused: Orton is one and done with his progressions. He either makes that first read and checks down or forces it to the WR like he did with Decker on the pick 6 yesterday. That ball didn't have a shot in hell from the moment of the snap! That is the kind of crap I expect from TT not a 7 year vet! Yet we see one or two of those every week!

[jhildebrand]

I remember in the PS when all the Orton backers insisted the WR wouldn't have to adjust to the ball like they did on ONE Tebow pass. In fact it was the Tebow pass to Riley where people said Orton would have led him better. :laugh:

Orton missed WIDE open receivers yesterday. In fact I can only think of one Decker recpetion that didn't require an adjustment on his part.

The flea flicker to B Lloyd was embarassing. Lloyd not only had to stop but come back to the ball! Any other QB and that is a sure fire TD.

So let's quit pretending that Orton has good rhythm with his WR/TE's as it was suggested. I said it for two years now-orton only looks good because his WR's make amazing acrobatic catches!

[MOtorboat]

Orton does not give us the best chance to win, if he did, we'd have more than one win in this season.

Though my statement was clearly hyperbolic, this last sentence of yours confuses the hell out of me.

Are you suggesting that the Broncos would currently have more wins had they played Tebow or Quinn in the first four games?

[Agent of Orange]

Though my statement was clearly hyperbolic, this last sentence of yours confuses the hell out of me.

Are you suggesting that the Broncos would currently have more wins had they played Tebow or Quinn in the first four games?

Its not hard to understand. She's saying that playing Orton doesn't result in wins and therefore, that excuse goes out the window.

[Agent of Orange]

After having a chance to take it all in, I would say the its approaching 9.0. Its not what it was last year with McDaniels yet but it soon will be. And we still have 12 games left.

[GEM]

Its not hard to understand. She's saying that playing Orton doesn't result in wins and therefore, that excuse goes out the window.

Yea, I didn't think it was too hard a concept to grasp.

Quit using that bullshit line. He doesn't give us the best chance to win. Just stop using it. It's a bogus lie.

[Tned]

You don't think Orton would be willing to renegotiate now that the pressure is coming down on him to this degree? I think he has a lot more reason to do it now than he did before the season.

Of course not. Why would Orton feel pressure to renegotiate now? This year is the first real, big pay day of his career and if he's smart, his $9 million this year will ensure he is comfortable for life, regardless of what else happens in his career. Why would he possibly give back money at this point? To help a fan base that vilifies him?

The chances of trading him are so close to zero, it's almost a non possibility.

[horsepig]

All this adversity and gloom makes me want to listen to the 8-mile soundtrack.:D

I will say today is the first time i fell asleep during a BRONCOS game...during the day!:tsk:

No shit? Me too.