PDA

View Full Version : Endzones and Antics. Are these players worth it?



King87
12-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Every time an owner or general manager drafts a wide receiver you know they are holding their breath. They hope they get superstar production without what now seems to be the gold standard for all wideouts; off the field problems and huge egos.

It seems almost mandatory that touchdown receptions and first downs are accompanied by legal problems and character issues. Many people are left wondering if it is worth it to have players like that on their football team.

Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are both examples of players who are great on the field and horrible off it. Everyone remembers Randy Moss bumping a meter maid with his car. Moss is also known for staring down a camera and exclaiming “Straight cash homie!” in regards to his $10,000 fine he received for fake mooning Packer fans during a playoff game in 2005. Terrell Owens’ actions are not far from memory either. The way he left San Francisco and Philadelphia has tarnished an otherwise tremendous career. Owens once went as far to imply that his former quarterback, Jeff Garcia, was gay. Though their production on the field beats out the majority of other players, you have to wonder if stars like these do more harm than good.

For a less extreme example you have to go no further than Chad Ocho Cinco. When Chad Ocho Cinco was coming up as a player he was loved by fans all across the NFL. People cited him as an example of how a player can celebrate and still be good for his team. The issue was debatable; while many felt he was just a harmless goofball, he has rubbed many fans and sportswriters the wrong way with his celebrations and boasting. On the field Ocho Cinco led the AFC in receiving yards for a record four straight seasons. Recently, his trade demands and lack of current production have led many to believe that he is not worth the hassle.

The wideout plague has even hit the once infallible New York Giants. Plaxico Burress, the player who caught the game winning touchdown in last year’s Superbowl, was once famous for being a team player and producing on the gridiron while being injured. Now he is famous for being late for meetings, felony gun charges, and shooting himself in the leg. The Giants’ offense has not been the same since Burress’ legal issues have surfaced. It appears that his distractions are worth enduring.

Big named wide receivers aren’t the only ones with issues. Brandon Marshall has had several brushes with the law in his life. The most recent accusations are domestic abuse and a DUI charge. On the field Marshall has a reputation for being an aggressive wideout who loves contact. A dominant force at his position, he demands double teams and still manages to put up impressive numbers. He is still a younger person, and many hope that he can clean up his act.

Santonio Holmes has added an explosive element to what used to be a run only Pittsburgh Steeler offense. Like the rest of these players, Holmes play has come at a price. Marijuana and domestic abuse charges have plagued Holmes’ early career. Still, he gives Big Ben another viable receiving target. Like Brandon Marshall, Holmes is in his early twenties and some feel that he can change as a human being.

Each player on this list is at tremendous talent. They all have the ability to change the game with one crisp route. They also have the ability to hurt their team by being arrested, suspended, bringing negative press to their franchise, and some of them have been known to take plays off. If the question being asked is are they worth it? The answer is a resounding yes. Terrell Owens was a coveted by the Eagles and Ravens when he was up for trade. Randy Moss had not produced for several seasons and was traded away to the no nonsense Patriots. Chad Johnson had several suitors this past offseason. The fact of the matter is that while Holmes and Marshall are still slightly unproven, they are needed on their teams. The only player on this list that has actually received any real punishment from their team is Plaxico Burress.

I think the question that should be asked is this; can we blame teams for wanting to win so badly that they put a malcontent wideout on their team?

Dreadnought
12-17-2008, 04:05 PM
Nice piece. I think the answer is a resounding NO. They are simply not worth the headaches and bad Karma they seem to bring with them. Ocho Cinco has done more than his share to ruin this season for Cincy, though he is by no means the only problem. TO is IMO worse than useless.

Marshall? We'll see. I hope he can learn to conduct himself as a grownup and a professional. He may be the most gifted of the whole bunch when all is said and done.

CrazyHorse
12-17-2008, 04:28 PM
For this reason I really like Andre Johnson. He seems to go unrecognized sometimes.
Maybe it's for his lack of antics.

bengaaaaals1688
12-17-2008, 05:24 PM
Nice piece. I think the answer is a resounding NO. They are simply not worth the headaches and bad Karma they seem to bring with them. Ocho Cinco has done more than his share to ruin this season for Cincy, though he is by no means the only problem. TO is IMO worse than useless.

Marshall? We'll see. I hope he can learn to conduct himself as a grownup and a professional. He may be the most gifted of the whole bunch when all is said and done.

Chad's antics are not why we are losing. The only way that is the case is if Brat really is attempting to keep the ball away from him to "teach him a lesson." His lack of production is hurting, not the things he said in the offseason.

CrazyHorse... Andre goes unrecognized so much because of his injury history, just as much for his behavior. He has only played more than 13 games twice in his career (besides this year) if I remember correctly, so many people overlook him, and many others overrate him.

King87
12-18-2008, 02:55 AM
Dread I have to disagree. Look what Moss meant to the Patriots. Almost half of Brady's touchdowns were thrown to him.

TO is one of the most dominant football players ever. He just takes over games, and to top it all off the SOB does everything right. He blocks out of vanity, but he blocks. He runs hard out of vanity, but he runs hard. In fact, the Eagles only made the Superbowl when he got there. Yes, he was hurt in the playoffs, but he was honestly their best player by far. He helped them get home field advantage, was their only relevant offensive player in the SB, played hurt for them.

Chad Johnson is a headache. Until his trade demands almost all his criticism was too harsh. He also is a potential hall of famer. The Bengals certainly would not have had a real chance to turn anything around without him. His production is a bit splotchy, but he was great. I don't think his great production is over. Palmer got hurt this year, Chad had a torn Labrum, and an ankle that needed surgery. I think he can keep going.

It would be nice if he did shut the hell up for once, I won't lie.

Burress seems to be more and more important for the Giants. Let's be honest, Toomer is average, Steve Smith is having a hard time getting open without a big time wideout to open up his game, and after those two the Giants have only an overrated TE to throw the ball too. You have to be able to throw the ball well to progress in the playoffs. At some point the top defenses are going to be the teams you play in the postseason. And, you can only beat a stacked box so many times.

Holmes is a big deal for his team's offense. He adds a big play spark. However, he is the most expandable by far, in my opinion. Ward still gets it done late in the game and on third down. Nate Washington is a guy who makes a lot of big plays for the Steelers. They also have a more versatile TE to throw the ball to in Heath Miller. Their running game is not where it needs to be though. Moore is just another Steeler system back. Parker is a system back to a less degree who happens to be fragile.


Now we get to the meat and potatoes for this website. Brandon Marshall. Let me start by saying that the way a lot of people defend Marshall reminds me of how many Bengals fans defended a young Chad Johnson. I can actually hear Dreadnought getting a stomach ulcer. :D He is just as important to your offense as Jay Cutler is. Eddie Royal is becoming a fine wideout, but the day he has to carry your team as your number one wideout is the day you start to agree with my article. ;) Stokely is a nice player out of the slot. BUt he certainly is getting older and is not a guy who want to be your number two wideout. Your running game is more and more system guys. It is productive, but at the same point no one here trusts it. You take Marshall off this team and you probably are trailing San Diego for the division.


Are these guys jerks? It kind of seems so. Can they hurt a team? They sure can. But, they keep doing well, their teams keep doing well, and they always are employed.

horsepig
12-22-2008, 06:29 AM
Very good points King. TO is a training monster, he is always ready to play and always looking for any advantage he can get. I used to play corner and have seen TO in practice and I'm glad my livelyhood does not depend on being able to cover this guy! Say what you want but, TO is a gamer (unlike Moss, who does not quite get what he has) and will make you pay for the slightest mistake.

TD was one of those guys like like LT, drag a bag of sand up and down the hills and dunes around San Diego and see if everyone else is able to keep up. Rod Smith is like Jimmy Stewart in that Christmas movie, a throw back, players are not like that now.

Northman
12-22-2008, 06:33 AM
TO is a workhorse but he is FAR from being the consumate player. He isnt much different than Moss. When TO wants to play, he will play. But if things dont go his way he becomes a media nightmare.

horsepig
12-22-2008, 06:38 AM
Maybe you find a guy like Hillis here and there, great. Most are goimg to be selfish, self centered individuals, and they probably should be. The old days of your local construction company owning the team are long gone, I bet the Phipps brothers wish they'd held out a little longer.

The "thrill of victory, the agony of defeat" are barely relevant; sucks, but that's how it is, give me the $$$$.

Are those guys worth it, hell yeah, if you want to compete.

King87
12-22-2008, 06:43 AM
TO is a workhorse but he is FAR from being the consumate player. He isnt much different than Moss. When TO wants to play, he will play. But if things dont go his way he becomes a media nightmare.

From everything I have ever seen out of him I disagree completely. On the field he is a beast and never quits. A few weeks ago a commentator said that they found it funny that TO was getting credit for doing the little things and blocking. He pointed out (may have been Kornheiser) that TO always does the little things like blocking and running down a DB who intercepted the ball.

Yes, he is a media nightmare. He also is a first ballot player who is as dominant as damn near any wideout ever.

As far as Moss goes, his numbers do all the talking. The guy may be the second greatest wideout of all time. I know he is definitely a top five guy at his position.

horsepig
12-22-2008, 06:45 AM
Screw the media Northman, we could use as little around here. When Elway and TD were going on 14 and 0 nobody but the booth team covering the games cared. East coast crapola.

I digress, yeah, give me Rod and Eddie Mac and I'll be pretty happy with Cutler throwing to them and Scheffler behind this Oline. God, just give me some hope on D (like Woodyard and Larsen).

Northman
12-22-2008, 06:46 AM
From everything I have ever seen out of him I disagree completely. On the field he is a beast and never quits. A few weeks ago a commentator said that they found it funny that TO was getting credit for doing the little things and blocking. He pointed out (may have been Kornheiser) that TO always does the little things like blocking and running down a DB who intercepted the ball.

Yes, he is a media nightmare. He also is a first ballot player who is as dominant as damn near any wideout ever.

As far as Moss goes, his numbers do all the talking. The guy may be the second greatest wideout of all time. I know he is definitely a top five guy at his position.

No doubt about it but all of them have hurt their teams with their off the field antics and carrying on. It cant be denied.

Northman
12-22-2008, 06:47 AM
Screw the media Northman, we could use as little around here. When Elway and TD were going on 14 and 0 nobody but the booth team covering the games cared. East coast crapola.

I digress, yeah, give me Rod and Eddie Mac and I'll be pretty happy with Cutler throwing to them and Scheffler behind this Oline. God, just give me some hope on D (like Woodyard and Larsen).


Nah, i dont want a media nightmare. I would rather have a player who just shuts up and plays.

horsepig
12-22-2008, 06:57 AM
Yo, King, I hear ya. TO and Moss are athletic freaks. We were very lucky to have Elway and TD together, along with some great "players" like Romo, Neil Smith (NU guy), and freaking Atwater. Man, those were the days.

horsepig
12-22-2008, 07:00 AM
Geeze North, you're giving props to Kornheiser?

horsepig
12-22-2008, 07:04 AM
I mean King.

Northman
12-22-2008, 07:08 AM
I mean King.


Yea, King is not stupid. He is a very intelligent guy with some great writing skills. And he isnt wrong about teams wanting to win so badly that they will sign anyone. Michael Vick is far from done in the NFL. And guys like Ocho, TO, and Moss will always get a job because of the talent they possess. Every team/coach/owner thinks they can control the egos. But to this day, ive seen only one out of control WR get a ring but that was on the coattails of a great defense. Time will tell if guys like TO and Moss will ever get one. But i will give credit to King for writing a good article even though i may disagree with some of his philosphies or outlooks.

horsepig
12-22-2008, 07:31 AM
It is very nice discussing this stuff with you guys. I tend to get on at weird hours and want to reply to comments but, the thread's are like 8 or 9 hours old.

Can anyone explain what the staff was thinking on those kickoffs? Are we just throwing in the towel and saying, "we can't stop you from returning our crappy kicks so we're gonna kick to the 35 and see if you can return that sh&t to midfield?".

horsepig
12-22-2008, 07:33 AM
I mean, really, that was like junior high stuff'

horsepig
12-22-2008, 07:42 AM
BTW North, you would not be referring to M. Irvin?

Northman
12-22-2008, 08:12 AM
BTW North, you would not be referring to M. Irvin?

Nah, but one could argue that Irvin was a headcase. I was referring to Meshawn Johnson.

King87
12-22-2008, 04:35 PM
I mean King.

Kornheiser is a beast. He is a great writer, and on PTI he is fantastic.

He fills his role very well, remember he took over that stupid QB. His name escapes me. I think they want someone kind of obnoxious that can be picked on.

bengaaaaals1688
12-22-2008, 04:40 PM
Kornheiser is a beast. He is a great writer, and on PTI he is fantastic.

He fills his role very well, remember he took over that stupid QB. His name escapes me. I think they want someone kind of obnoxious that can be picked on.

He's an idiot on MNF, and that's all I watch on ESPN. Theisman was worse, but he's an idiot and the reason why I watch many games on mute.

King87
12-22-2008, 05:09 PM
He's an idiot on MNF, and that's all I watch on ESPN. Theisman was worse, but he's an idiot and the reason why I watch many games on mute.

I look at it the way you and I view Carson Palmer.............Kornheiser has a bum arm atm!:laugh:

In all seriousness, just because he blows at one aspect (and I think it really is his job to blow at it) does not take away from everything else he can do. Watch him on PTI, he is really good in my opinion.

bengaaaaals1688
12-22-2008, 06:28 PM
I look at it the way you and I view Carson Palmer.............Kornheiser has a bum arm atm!:laugh:

In all seriousness, just because he blows at one aspect (and I think it really is his job to blow at it) does not take away from everything else he can do. Watch him on PTI, he is really good in my opinion.

I've watched PTI a few times, and IMO, he's made to look good because Wilbon says some ridiculous things. Then again maybe that's partly my bias against Kornheiser because I hate him so immensely on MNF.

King87
12-22-2008, 09:16 PM
I've watched PTI a few times, and IMO, he's made to look good because Wilbon says some ridiculous things. Then again maybe that's partly my bias against Kornheiser because I hate him so immensely on MNF.

Wilbon is more of the passionate fan. The kind of guy who roots for all things Chicago (his home town) and thinks Dwayne Wade was the best player after the championship. He is a results right now kind of guy. Which is fine, because in my opinion that isn't that bad of a view.

I am more of a longevity, long term result, consistency, benefit of the doubt given to proven teams and players kind of guy.

MNPatsFan
12-23-2008, 08:52 AM
No doubt about it but all of them have hurt their teams with their off the field antics and carrying on. It cant be denied.Northman, I am going to have to disagree with you some what here becaus despite being a headache and hurting his previous teams, Moss has not had any issues with the Patriots yet and hopefully won't have any in the future (knock on wood).

Northman
12-23-2008, 10:49 AM
Northman, I am going to have to disagree with you some what here becaus despite being a headache and hurting his previous teams, Moss has not had any issues with the Patriots yet and hopefully won't have any in the future (knock on wood).

I do agree that Moss has been better but (and even though not his fault) right when you guys were going to the SB last year there was some woman claiming something against him that could of been a distraction. Even though i think the woman was bogus it just seems that because of his history Moss will have a hard time shedding his past. But, he has improved no doubt. If the Pats had struggled this year i wonder how he would of handled it.

bengaaaaals1688
12-23-2008, 02:48 PM
Wilbon is more of the passionate fan. The kind of guy who roots for all things Chicago (his home town) and thinks Dwayne Wade was the best player after the championship. He is a results right now kind of guy. Which is fine, because in my opinion that isn't that bad of a view.

I am more of a longevity, long term result, consistency, benefit of the doubt given to proven teams and players kind of guy.

I am more of the same as you, you know that... Kornheiser just annoys me because he seems to try way too hard to be funny, and when he is announcing he makes it quite clear that he has no idea what he's trying to say.

AGap
12-23-2008, 03:26 PM
I think most anitics just make the player look foolish. Ie: Ocho cinco, how ghey is that? pfft.

King87
12-23-2008, 05:52 PM
I think most anitics just make the player look foolish. Ie: Ocho cinco, how ghey is that? pfft.

Ghey enough to make millions upon millions of dollars and put up sick numbers. :salute:

That's the side of me that likes CJ talking.

The side of me that does not like CJ agrees with you.

MNPatsFan
12-24-2008, 12:29 AM
Ghey enough to make millions upon millions of dollars and put up sick numbers. :salute:

That's the side of me that likes CJ talking.

The side of me that does not like CJ agrees with you.So you admit that you are bipolar and/or have a split personality.;)

:laugh::laugh:

King87
12-24-2008, 12:44 AM
So you admit that you are bipolar and/or have a split personality.;)

:laugh::laugh:

Sorta. One part of me wants to laugh at your somewhat funny joke, the other part of me wants to coolly warn you not to slip on the ice outside and pull a Tom Brady. ;)

AGap
12-24-2008, 09:36 AM
Ghey enough to make millions upon millions of dollars and put up sick numbers. :salute:

That's the side of me that likes CJ talking.

The side of me that does not like CJ agrees with you.

He could still put up sick numbers and make millions without making a donkey of himself imo

bengaaaaals1688
12-24-2008, 12:13 PM
He could still put up sick numbers and make millions without making a donkey of himself imo

He has fun, there isn't a problem with having fun. When he does dumb shit like he did this offseason, then yes he's a "donkey," but celebrating isn't stupid, it's having fun. They get paid to play a game, that some of them love, and he loves the game so he has fun, and tries to be more entertaining. And that goes for all WRs that celebrate, not just Chad, as long as they do it "tastefully."

AGap
12-24-2008, 12:20 PM
He has fun, there isn't a problem with having fun. When he does dumb shit like he did this offseason, then yes he's a "donkey," but celebrating isn't stupid, it's having fun. They get paid to play a game, that some of them love, and he loves the game so he has fun, and tries to be more entertaining. And that goes for all WRs that celebrate, not just Chad, as long as they do it "tastefully."

ah, leave the "entertainment" with the WWF

bengaaaaals1688
12-24-2008, 12:53 PM
ah, leave the "entertainment" with the WWF

Why?? Why does everything have to be totally serious at all point in time?? Last I checked football was a game, and games are supposed to be fun. On every level of football kids are told to go out there and have fun first and foremost, why the hell do NFL players have to change that??

King87
12-24-2008, 04:57 PM
ah, leave the "entertainment" with the WWF

Get rid of the NFL then, it is a form of entertainment?

Sponsored Links