Do You Miss Shanahan??

[Shazam!]

Man, I HATE to bring this up (tune in Lonestar!) but I cannot help it.

Was it a mistake of Pat Bowlen's firing Mike Shanahan, or was it a mistake of who he replaced him with?

You know what they say 'You dont know what you've got 'til it's gone.'

If Shanahan were still here, Cutler, Hillis, Marshall and a whole host of other changes that were made to our beloved Broncos would still have remained... but we know what we'd have seen. We've see it for years, and Im sure people didnt forget the 2008 collapse.

I still believe a change was needed at the time and I supported his highly questionable personnel decisions McD made, until the blowout loss at home to Oakland.

Do you miss Mike Shanahan and wish he was still Denver's Coach?

(I haven't been here in awhile because of work, and if this is an existing thread since McD's firing I apologize)

[Tned]

Considering the offense they were building, they probably should have given Shanahan one more year.

[Buff]

I miss the respectability and credibility that went with Shanny. The guy's running scheme is universally respected in the NFL. He brought us two rings. He hated the Raiders. In a lot of ways, he helped us remain relevant.

That said, he kept making the same mistakes. The defense never got any better and he kept trying to build through free agency. Too many bad drafts (not enough 2006 classes.)

I do wonder what might have been if we gave him another 5-10 years... And I definitely miss the stability... But a lot of that was exacerbated by the failed McDaniels experiment and him finding a way to make us a laughing stock in two short years. We might not miss Shanny as bad if we had someone borderline competent.

If there is one good thing to come out of all of it, at least now we rid ourselves of the GM/Head Coach/President of the World business model that Bowlen was married to for so many years.

[Clipworthy]

I miss Shanny and his style of mediocrity, so much better than Orton's :(

[Shazam!]

If they hired someone like Fox in the first place, he wouldve just fixed the Defense and left virtually everything on Offense alone.

No way IMO would he have nuked this team like McD did.

[Dirk]

I miss the respectability and credibility that went with Shanny. The guy's running scheme is universally respected in the NFL. He brought us two rings. He hated the Raiders. In a lot of ways, he helped us remain relevant.

That said, he kept making the same mistakes. The defense never got any better and he kept trying to build through free agency. Too many bad drafts (not enough 2006 classes.)

I do wonder what might have been if we gave him another 5-10 years... And I definitely miss the stability... But a lot of that was exacerbated by the failed McDaniels experiment and him finding a way to make us a laughing stock in two short years. We might not miss Shanny as bad if we had someone borderline competent.

If there is one good thing to come out of all of it, at least now we rid ourselves of the GM/Head Coach/President of the World business model that Bowlen was married to for so many years.

:salute:

[Nomad]

I don't think Marshall would of lasted on the team regardless.

[nevcraw]

No but I do miss Bowlen.

[camdisco24]

First and Foremost, I agreed with the firing at the time. I STRONGLY disagreed with the hiring of McD right after. Had I known at the time what would become of this team, I would have been so so so against the Shanny firing. It's pretty depressing to think about what happened to this team post Shanny... When I see him on the sidelines for the Redskins I just say.. "Mike, I miss ya man."

The firing of Mike Shanahan was the first step in the destruction of this franchise.

[Slick]

He'd still be here if it werent for his lack of attention to the defense, his drafting, and his poor free agency decisions.

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[Buff]

Bowlen and Ellis were blinded by the seemingly revolutionary Pats offense coming off their undefeated regular season.

Their main failure is that they went out and tried to hire the second coming of Shanahan instead of going in a completely different direction. If they were looking for another Shanahan, they should have just kept the proven one.

[Tned]

I said be careful what you wish for to fans calling for Shannan's head, because the odds were that post Shannan, the Broncos would join the ranks of clubs on a coaching carousel replacing their coach every two to three years.

[Northman]

Considering Mike had no clue about the defense no. He started to get on the right track with better drafting (with the Goodman's) but it was too little too late unfortuantely. Im not shocked that he learned from that mistake and now has a much better defense in Washington. Its too bad for us that he learned that lesson far too late.

[Nomad]

Considering Mike had no clue about the defense no. He started to get on the right track with better drafting (with the Goodman's) but it was too little too late unfortuantely. Im not shocked that he learned from that mistake and now has a much better defense in Washington. Its too bad for us that he learned that lesson far too late.

His defensive effort left me dissatisfied with him but I never expected to see him let go. I wonder how much Jim Hasslet has helped this year.

Tned was right about the coaching carousel.

[camdisco24]

I just miss having a coach I could trust. I never trusted McD with this team, and after Fox's performance in his final years at Carolina I still don't trust him as our coach. At least with Shanny .500 seemed reachable every year.

[jhildebrand]

Nope.

The guy deserves all the accolades and praise for our two SB's. But it was time to move on. Probably should have moved on when he flirted with Florida.

The only way I would have wanted Shanahan to stay would have involved him relinquishing GM duties and removing the DC (whose name shall not be mentioned) and neither was happening.

[Northman]

Nope.

The guy deserves all the accolades and praise for our two SB's. But it was time to move on. Probably should have moved on when he flirted with Florida.

The only way I would have wanted Shanahan to stay would have involved him relinquishing GM duties and removing the DC (whose name shall not be mentioned) and neither was happening.

Indeed. Had he done that i think the team would of been better off the bat.


I just miss having a coach I could trust. I never trusted McD with this team, and after Fox's performance in his final years at Carolina I still don't trust him as our coach. At least with Shanny .500 seemed reachable every year.

Yea, McD wore out his welcome from the get go and it just got worse and worse as it went on. Fox im willing to give at least 2 years to see if he can get the ship back on target. But if we arent making any improvements than i will lose faith in him pretty fast. He's an experienced coach and should be able
to at least get this team more than 4 wins.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I sure do.

I had my problems with some of his decisions, but his offenses were always productive and it seemed like even when the team struggled, opponents respected the Broncos.

I'd take him back in a heartbeat.

[chazoe60]

I want Shanny with Fox as DC. Is that so much to ask?





Shanny never should have scapegoated Larry Coyer.

[Dreadnought]

I miss the respectability and credibility that went with Shanny. The guy's running scheme is universally respected in the NFL. He brought us two rings. He hated the Raiders. In a lot of ways, he helped us remain relevant.

That said, he kept making the same mistakes. The defense never got any better and he kept trying to build through free agency. Too many bad drafts (not enough 2006 classes.)

I do wonder what might have been if we gave him another 5-10 years... And I definitely miss the stability... But a lot of that was exacerbated by the failed McDaniels experiment and him finding a way to make us a laughing stock in two short years. We might not miss Shanny as bad if we had someone borderline competent.

If there is one good thing to come out of all of it, at least now we rid ourselves of the GM/Head Coach/President of the World business model that Bowlen was married to for so many years.

Well said. I opposed the firing, but understood it. I am pissed that Shanny insisted on retaining that stiff Slowick as D-coordinator, and IMO that is what ended his tenure. The collapse at the end of 2008 was indefensible, because remember, we were 8-5 and 3 games up on the Bolts. With the offense he assembled I think even a Greg Robinson led defense would have led to winning seasons. Championships? Eh, I dunno - but we would have been spared this mess. Shanny plus Nolan - now that would have been cool!

[nevcraw]

shanny's message was tired -- it was time but I think another year to get his offense fully back in form and then bring in a D minded coach would have been brutal but best for the team..

[BroncoTech]

The old rumor that Slowick's head was on the block and Shanny wouldn't fire him so he got fired is a drag. It was, after all, just Slowick that had to go. Think if that would have happened instead.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't think Marshall would of lasted on the team regardless.

I totally disagree. Marshall isn't NEARLY as bad as Steve Smith, and Fox got along with Smith just fine. But then, the there are very very few coaches that have ever not gotten along with their players like McDick did.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm with the belief that with the offensive talent we had drafted the last couple years before his firing, that he should have been given a bit much time. It takes franchises and average of 10 years to replace a HoF QB. We may not have had our "elite" on the team, but we had one that was definitely good enough NOT to have to go out and replace, and with the talent that was building around him, it could have snowballed quickly.

He's showing in Washington just what a good coach he is. But then, I never doubted that.

[BroncoStud]

Yes I miss Shanahan. We were on the cusp of being a division winner when he was fired. Compared to what we had in McDaniels and what we have now Shanahan may as well be Vince Lombardi.

[Canmore]

At least we were relevant under Mike. I understood the change but honestly thought he should have had one more year. I felt we were on the edge of being better. The offense was young and dynamic. The defense was the issue and I thought we were going to finally address it. Oh well, hindsight always is better.

[Joel]

Man, I HATE to bring this up (tune in Lonestar!) but I cannot help it.

Was it a mistake of Pat Bowlen's firing Mike Shanahan, or was it a mistake of who he replaced him with?

You know what they say 'You dont know what you've got 'til it's gone.'

If Shanahan were still here, Cutler, Hillis, Marshall and a whole host of other changes that were made to our beloved Broncos would still have remained... but we know what we'd have seen. We've see it for years, and Im sure people didnt forget the 2008 collapse.

I still believe a change was needed at the time and I supported his highly questionable personnel decisions McD made, until the blowout loss at home to Oakland.

Do you miss Mike Shanahan and wish he was still Denver's Coach?

(I haven't been here in awhile because of work, and if this is an existing thread since McD's firing I apologize)
In a word, yes. I don't think he should have remained GM, and think he needed some major help with the D because he's been rather inept with it for a while, but it's undeniable that we're in far worse shape since Shanny left than at any time since he arrived. I could've lived with the decision, as I resigned myself to do at the time, if not for McDaniels, and obviously McDaniels record is not a vindication of Shanahan: Josh McDaniels would have been a disaster of epoch proportions whoever and whatever preceded him, because he singlehandedly and completely destroyed one of the Leagues great franchises in less than two years. However, it is fair in light of that to ask whether one misses Shanahan, and against that background it's impossible to say, "no." I miss him like Scott Norwood misses field goals.

[sneakers]

Yes.

[G_Money]

Let me just say this:

Shanahan...
2008 offense: 3rd in passing yards, 12th in rushing yards (with ZERO healthy backs), 16th in points

Plus Nolan...
2009 defense: 12th in points, 7th in yards with trash personnel on this very team that was 30th in D the previous year.

Plus the Goodmans...
2006 - 2008 drafts they ran for us netted:
- Cutler (pro bowler)
- Marshall (pro bowler)
- Doom (DPOY)
- Sheffler (pass-catching weapon at TE)
- Hixon (useful for NY when his knees are working)
- Kuper (good guard)
- Clady (All Pro)
- Royal (very good in a Shanny offense, not in a read-adjust one)
- Harris (starting RT for a couple of years, was very good in a ZBS)
- Thomas (starting DT)
- Hillis (coverboy for Madden and the football face of a city)
- Torain (ran for 750 yards last year with a good YPC)
- Woodyard (undrafted but still added, as good a Will as DJ)

equals...

:tsk: Sorry, just thinking of two more drafts like those instead of the tragedies McD inflicted on us, with the ability to leave the O intact and provide Nolan with the talent he needed.

When Shanahan said he was keeping Moron Boy to run the D, I was okay with him going...but man I wish we'd have just added Nolan instead and moved right the hell on.

~G

[Montana Battlin Bear]

**** I miss mike shanahan

[WARHORSE]

Who knows, but dont get me going. It took a long time for me to get over Shanny leaving, and I dont want to relapse.


Watching Washingtons zone blocking making Hightower look like a stud is frustrating.

McDaniels should be castrated and his nads hung under the hooves of the Mile High Stallion.



Shanny and Fox as DC I too would love to see.

[Lancane]

Most fans had deep respect and unyielding admiration for Shanahan, but like John Fox he refused to learn from his mistakes, not just in regards to the draft or free agency, because let's face it...as of 2005 the team was on the right track in those areas, what he refused to learn from was his pitiless loyalty to coordinators and the decisiveness to go outside his comfort zone - that is until he went to Washington.

His offense is a thousand times better then the crap we have been left with since his leave, if there is anyone who really doubts that, then they're a moron...sorry, but it's true. John Fox refuses to learn from his mistakes, the proof is so viable it's sickening - I don't care that he's had several 1,000 yards rushers, his offenses have continually been shit overall because of their conservative nature...and I worry that Elway is so inexperienced and in truth so use to conservative offenses because his time under Reeves that he'll allow it to continue even at the expense of this once great franchise. We can only hope that he has the 'balls' and 'brains' to know it doesn't work, that Fox should not have any control in that particular aspect.

Do I miss Shanahan? I thought it was time for a change, but looking at what we've become...the answer is yes, we all should be missing him because since then we've become nothing more then a bad pun in a very sorry joke.

[TXBRONC]

I don't dwell on it. However, in hindsight giving Shanahan one more year might been a good thing to do. OTOH if you look at from the prespective that Shanahan lost his edge then maybe the part that should have been differently is hiring someone other than McDaniels to replace Shanahan.

[BroncoNut]

shanahan the poster or the coach?

no, i don't really miss shanahan too much. I would suppose that he'd be better than what we have now, but I still hold to my opinion that it was time for him to go, time for a change of scenery

[Tned]

I should clarify, I don't miss "Shanahan" per se, I missing having a competitive team every season, which Shanahan always had.

[BroncoJoe]

I would have loved to see the 2009 team under Shanahan.

Oh, and here's a picture of his house just outside Denver:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/mike%20shanahan%20house.JPG

[chazoe60]

I would have loved to see the 2009 team under Shanahan.

Oh, and here's a picture of his house just outside Denver:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/mike%20shanahan%20house.JPG

Hey, where'd you get a picture of my garage?

[The Glue Factory]

I worry that Elway is so inexperienced and in truth so use to conservative offenses because his time under Reeves that he'll allow it to continue even at the expense of this once great franchise. We can only hope that he has the 'balls' and 'brains' to know it doesn't work, that Fox should not have any control in that particular aspect.

Elway inexperienced? You do recall that he ran the Colorado Crush which was highly successful and won AFL championships, right?

I also recall that Elway chafed against Reeves conservative yoke as well. I don't think Fox is a bad pick as HC for where we are at. We need someone like him to establish a disciplined culture with the players. Someone to take the talent he gets and coach it up. Right now our horrible lack of talent is killing us more than Fox's conservative coaching. In a few years (4 or 5) when we've significantly upgraded our talent (hopefully through the draft primarily) we should be ready to upgrade the HC position. I don't think Elway will be one to shy away from considering a change at HC when that time comes.

[jhns]

Of course I miss Shanahan. His worst years were far better than what we are seeing now. He finally fired Sundquist and the drafting was far better. This team had a very young offemse and could have focused on defense. People claim he didn't know defense but we had good defenses up until the last few years. He was focused on building the offense in that time though. He still had us as one of the top franchises in wins over his last ten years here. He had this franchise playing far better football than most any other franchise in the years after losing their HOF QB. I believe he would have gotten us back to always in the playoffs. I think Washington will now be that team, starting with a playoff game this season. Denver fans are now finding out how spoiled we were.

[Bosco]

Considering Mike had no clue about the defense no. He started to get on the right track with better drafting (with the Goodman's) but it was too little too late unfortuantely. Im not shocked that he learned from that mistake and now has a much better defense in Washington. Its too bad for us that he learned that lesson far too late.

Pretty much spot on. For all of Mike's offensive genius, he was a horrible personnel man, made staffing decisions personal rather than logical and never really committed to building a decent defense.

Guys like Shanahan (and almost all coaches when you get right down to it) need a strong GM to be a check on their power. Bowlen has never believed in this philosophy and his stubborn desire to give his coaches nearly full control is largely to blame for the failures of the last two coaching regimes.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I totally disagree. Marshall isn't NEARLY as bad as Steve Smith, and Fox got along with Smith just fine. But then, the there are very very few coaches that have ever not gotten along with their players like McDick did.

Marshall was one punch away from a year long suspension. I'm surprised he made it through his stabbing without his wife getting a shiner. Maybe his counsiling and medications will get him better. He hasn't looked the same since he left Denver.

[Nomad]

Marshall was one punch away from a year long suspension. I'm surprised he made it through his stabbing without his wife getting a shiner. Maybe his counsiling and medications will get him better. He hasn't looked the same since he left Denver.

Not just that, he was bitter (he didn't trust them) with Bowlen and the org because of his hip thing to begin with before McD arrived....can't say I don't blame him. McD added fuel to the fire but Marshall didn't help the situation any and I don't believe any HC would have put up with his BS.

[Ravage!!!]

Marshall was one punch away from a year long suspension. I'm surprised he made it through his stabbing without his wife getting a shiner. Maybe his counsiling and medications will get him better. He hasn't looked the same since he left Denver.

We keep hearing this from the Marshall bashers. Since 2008, this has been what we've heard.. "he's one thing away from a 1 year suspension." Seems its about time we let that mantra go.

[Ravage!!!]

Not just that, he was bitter (he didn't trust them) with Bowlen and the org because of his hip thing to begin with before McD arrived....can't say I don't blame him. McD added fuel to the fire but Marshall didn't help the situation any and I don't believe any HC would have put up with his BS.

His BS wasn't around before McD. Lets not lose track of the fact that he's NEVER showed disrespect to any of the other coaches that he's played for. Considering this discussion was talked about how Fox wouldn't have put up with Marshall, we've seen Steve Smith get into fist fights with his own teammates and putting them out of games. So lets not even suggest that there aren't coaches that would put up with his personality.

[Nomad]

His BS wasn't around before McD. Lets not lose track of the fact that he's NEVER showed disrespect to any of the other coaches that he's played for. Considering this discussion was talked about how Fox wouldn't have put up with Marshall, we've seen Steve Smith get into fist fights with his own teammates and putting them out of games. So lets not even suggest that there aren't coaches that would put up with his personality.

Meh.....he was bitter with Bowlen and the org to begin with.....not learning the playbook, laziness etc was his way of showing it. But believe what you want, no coach would have put up with that bs because he was being rebellious against the org.

[DenBronx]

Excellent HC but bad GM. I wish he could have stuck around a few more years. He had built the #2 ranked offense and all he really needed to do was bring in Nolan or Capers.

But, at least with Shanahan, you know he hated the raiders. And I loved that!

I do miss his evil look on the sidelines.


Letting him go was the beggining of the end...who knows when we will ever get back now...

[camdisco24]

Excellent HC but bad GM. I wish he could have stuck around a few more years. He had built the #2 ranked offense and all he really needed to do was bring in Nolan or Capers.

But, at least with Shanahan, you know he hated the raiders. And I loved that!

I do miss his evil look on the sidelines.


Letting him go was the beggining of the end...who knows when we will ever get back now...

ahhh yes, that LOOK. Passion. I loved it.

[hamrob]

Absolutely, I miss Shanny.

This guy won us 2 Super Bowls. Then, with Elway/Davis and half of the players who contributed to those championships gone...he rebuilt and got us to a home AFC Championship game with Jake Plummer of all people. He learned quickly that wasn't going to cut it...so, he retooled his offense and built one of the youngest most talented offenses in years...all that was left to do was improve the defense. Which happened to be his focus for the next year. Ellis pulled the plug too soon...and this team may never be the same again. Why Joe Ellis is still with the Broncos is beyond me.

With Shanahan...we always challenged for a playoff spot. You began the year believing we would be in the playoffs, and even in the bad years...we were in it to the very end.

Now....the Playoffs seem like a forgetten thing in Denver. One of the worst moves ever...thanks to Joe Ellis!

[silkamilkamonico]

Shanahan's team were fun to watch, regardless.

Not only do we lose all the time now, but the team is boring as hell to watch too.

[BroncoNut]

I miss our talks sometimes.

[Lancane]

If anyone doesn't miss Shanahan at this point, especially after watching what that Midget Napoleon McDaniels did to this team and now watching what Fox is doing to it, then they're idiots!

Hell, we should be publicly flogged for wanting Shanahan gone, and Bowlen should be flogged for doing it - because we're all sharing the pain as is.

[Shazam!]

I dont blame Fox too much. He inherited a team full of mediocre trash aside from a few quality standouts, and injuries. Plus they lost to who is likely the best most complete team in the NFL.

I just wish McDaniels never came here and wrecked this team. God, I hate him.

[Lancane]

I dont blame Fox too much. He inherited a team full of mediocre trash aside from a few quality standouts, and injuries. Plus they lost to who is likely the best most complete team in the NFL.

I just wish McDaniels never came here and wrecked this team. God, I hate him.

Fox is not the answer, he was the safe pick and that doesn't make him the right one! Rick Dennison should have been named the head coach three years ago, and again this off-season.

[elsid13]

Fox is not the answer, he was the safe pick and that doesn't make him the right one! Rick Dennison should have been named the head coach three years ago, and again this off-season.

He was the guy I wanted. But he is better place in Denver South then coaching this team right now.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Shanny was done the moment he said he wanted Slowick to return as DC. Terrible, terrible decision.

If they would have kept the Goodmans, or brought in someone else to take care of the GM duties, and Shanny brought in a good DC and gave him control (kind of like what is happening in DC), he would still be the coach.

[slim]

Shanny was done the moment he said he wanted Slowick to return as DC. Terrible, terrible decision.

If they would have kept the Goodmans, or brought in someone else to take care of the GM duties, and Shanny brought in a good DC and gave him control (kind of like what is happening in DC), he would still be the coach.

I still can't understand WTF he was thinking re: Slowick.

That was freaking bizzare.

[Bosco]

If anyone doesn't miss Shanahan at this point, especially after watching what that Midget Napoleon McDaniels did to this team and now watching what Fox is doing to it, then they're idiots!

Hell, we should be publicly flogged for wanting Shanahan gone, and Bowlen should be flogged for doing it - because we're all sharing the pain as is.

The problem with that is that Shanahan was ultimately not going to get you anything other than mediocrity. A consistent 9 to 11 win a year team that's one and done in the playoffs might look good compared to where we are now, but if you know that the furthest you're going to get, what's the point? Even though the move has a chance of back firing, you ultimately have to take a shot at getting someone who can get you to the next level.

[Bosco]

I still can't understand WTF he was thinking re: Slowick.

That was freaking bizzare.

Slowick was his good friend, and as he had taken more control over the team, Mike was consistently making his personnel decisions based on personal feelings rather than objectivity.

[Zweems56]

Shanahan the Coach and Coordinator, most certainly yes. Shanahan the GM, and his defensive decisions... hell no. Shanahan got stale, without a doubt. Did we make the right decisions after we got rid of him? Hell no.

[Lancane]

The problem with that is that Shanahan was ultimately not going to get you anything other than mediocrity. A consistent 9 to 11 win a year team that's one and done in the playoffs might look good compared to where we are now, but if you know that the furthest you're going to get, what's the point? Even though the move has a chance of back firing, you ultimately have to take a shot at getting someone who can get you to the next level.

That's a very understandable position to take and that's how I felt before we hired McDanies, but then again, the change has done what for the Broncos as a team or as an organization?

We saw them dismantled by a egotistical mental-midget head coach and are now stuck with another coach far more mediocre then Shanahan ever was and far less respectable...that's not progress brother - no matter which way you look at it.

When I think about it Bosco, it irks me...we could have hired Harbaugh, Dennison, Mularkey, Carmichael, Rivera and instead we looked at coaches that were questionable and hired one that's not only boringly conservative but the very epitome of mediocre! I don't think that's what you had in mind, nor I. So while I can see your point, in this case it wasn't worth the risk because we're far from where we could and should be.

[Bosco]

That's a very understandable position to take and that's how I felt before we hired McDanies, but then again, the change has done what for the Broncos as a team or as an organization?

We saw them dismantled by a egotistical mental-midget head coach and are now stuck with another coach far more mediocre then Shanahan ever was and far less respectable...that's not progress brother - no matter which way you look at it.

When I think about it Bosco, it irks me...we could have hired Harbaugh, Dennison, Mularkey, Carmichael, Rivera and instead we looked at coaches that were questionable and hired one that's not only boringly conservative but the very epitome of mediocre! I don't think that's what you had in mind, nor I. So while I can see your point, in this case it wasn't worth the risk because we're far from where we could and should be.

The problem is you have to be smart about making the choices. I still think McDaniels was the right hire at the time, but how much different had things turned out if Bowlen had kept to his word and got us a real GM instead of trying to make a 32 year old rookie head coach work both jobs? We talked about this before, and I'm pretty sure we were both in agreement that Bowlen's belief in a single GM/Head coach model is responsible for this team's troubles more than anything else. It's also probably why Fox was so appealing. Bowlen probably felt that a long tenured guy like him would be more able to handle both jobs.

[BORDERLINE]

I miss going into a game knowing if we play at our best level we would win. Yesterday at GB the game started and nothing short of a miracle I believed would have helped us win. Shanny provided stability but his words got old and we needed new life.

In retrospect the mistake was allowing MCD control of personal moves. And now it appears FOX is just as arrogant to not make a move when it is needed just like MCD with Hillis. This is a F'N mess and I hold EFX responsible. The writing was on the wall last year of Orton's play the whole trade with the Fins that never happened. Just a F'N mess of things.

[Npba900]

First and Foremost, I agreed with the firing at the time. I STRONGLY disagreed with the hiring of McD right after. Had I known at the time what would become of this team, I would have been so so so against the Shanny firing. It's pretty depressing to think about what happened to this team post Shanny... When I see him on the sidelines for the Redskins I just say.. "Mike, I miss ya man."

The firing of Mike Shanahan was the first step in the destruction of this franchise.

It comes down to "BB"! Blame Bowlen! Bowlen fired Shanny w/o having a reliable veteran proven winning coach at the NFL level.

Bowlen foolishly hired a 32 year old Prima Donna OC as HC who NEVER had won in the NFL. All McD did in his two short years was knock the Broncos back 3 or 4 years.

Bowlen sat idly by and reacted too late to put out the fire between McD and Cutler, and we lost a Franchise QB we so badly need right now.

In fairness however, Shanny's Achilles Heal was that he Knew "SQUAT" about assembling Defenses and drafting and assembling/developing defensive talent. Perhaps if Shanny would have turned over control to Coyer on Defense, Coyer would have established an identity on defensive the Broncos so badly needed. Coyer should have been given full control of drafting Defensive players that would have fit his defensive schemes and philosophy.

Finally, had Hillis not suffered his season ending torn hamstring, his impact would have been just enough for the Broncos to win the AFC West and making the playoffs in 2008. No way in hell would Bowlen had fired Shanny had the Denver won the AFC west and made the playoffs.

[broncobryce]

No, he had gotten too complacent and would not give up full control which he doesn't have in Washington.

[Lancane]

The problem is you have to be smart about making the choices. I still think McDaniels was the right hire at the time, but how much different had things turned out if Bowlen had kept to his word and got us a real GM instead of trying to make a 32 year old rookie head coach work both jobs? We talked about this before, and I'm pretty sure we were both in agreement that Bowlen's belief in a single GM/Head coach model is responsible for this team's troubles more than anything else. It's also probably why Fox was so appealing. Bowlen probably felt that a long tenured guy like him would be more able to handle both jobs.

To be fair, I don't believe that hiring a true general manager was the issue. Granted that Bowlen handed too much control to McDaniels, but I think it came on the heels of what Joe Ellis did himself...if Jim Goodman had been retained as the GM then McDaniels' control of the franchise would have been limited, Josh knew this and I believe that's why he went to Ellis and then both went to Bowlen supporting Brian Xanders as the general manager and therein gave him what he wanted, the overall control of the football operations. No way Goodman would have allowed McDaniels to trade Cutler or Marshall, and I doubt the drafts would be as big of washes as they were.

I've long ago said had he kept Cutler he would have succeeded and went to the playoffs in his second year as the head coach...and I still believe that.

[turftoad]

As to the thread title. Yes, yes I do.

He knew the "D" was bad. Had to spend picks on offense, which he did.

IMO, he had a plan. Shanny's a smart guy, he's not dumb. He had a young offense in place for the most part.

I think he knew that after that, he had to start concentrating on the "D". He would have been fine.

He's not a dumb man.

[tubby]

Absolutely

[Bosco]

Bowlen foolishly hired a 32 year old Prima Donna OC as HC who NEVER had won in the NFL.

Say what? The Patriots won 10+ games in all 4 years that Josh was running the offense, including that little 16-0 season.


To be fair, I don't believe that hiring a true general manager was the issue. Granted that Bowlen handed too much control to McDaniels, but I think it came on the heels of what Joe Ellis did himself...if Jim Goodman had been retained as the GM then McDaniels' control of the franchise would have been limited, Josh knew this and I believe that's why he went to Ellis and then both went to Bowlen supporting Brian Xanders as the general manager and therein gave him what he wanted, the overall control of the football operations. No way Goodman would have allowed McDaniels to trade Cutler or Marshall, and I doubt the drafts would be as big of washes as they were.

I've long ago said had he kept Cutler he would have succeeded and went to the playoffs in his second year as the head coach...and I still believe that.

Jim Goodman was never the GM though. He was the VP of Football Operations. Jeff Goodman, his son, shared the GM title with Xanders. Keeping Jim Goodman and actually making him the GM would have been great with me, but the rumor is that he didn't want that job and even actively turned it down as to not prevent Jeff's advancement. This is another case where Bowlen screwed up though. There was a significant power struggle between Jeff and Brian and Bowlen's reaction was to can both the Goodman's and make Xanders the true GM. To my understanding, Josh's only involvement in this was that he was asked to weigh in on which of Brian or Jeff he thought he could best work with. This is the same mistake he made with the Cutler fiasco too. Not only would having a strong GM have likely prevented Cutler and Cook from running their little game, but Bowlen did a horrible job of getting out in front of the issue in their place. Neither Xanders nor Josh were experienced enough to handle that PR war from a skilled agent, and Bowlen sat back while they got taken behind the woodshed. Then, when Jay made it about Bowlen instead of just Josh, he comes down and demands that Jay get traded. There were any junctures at which Bowlen could have squashed the issue, but he stayed hands off until it got personal. Think of how differently that situation would have played out if Bowlen comes out at the start and tells the fanbase that we never actively shopped Cutler and that he would either play in Denver or nowhere in 2009. I'd bet you my bottom dollar that Cutler would have showed up in training camp with his tail between his legs.

As for Cutler and McDaniels, I doubt that relationship would have worked. Cutler strikes me as a guy who needs to be cuddled and handled with kids gloves, and that just wouldn't fly with Josh's coaching style. Even if they had gone into the season good terms it probably wouldn't have taken long for Josh to go postal over Jay's reckless tendencies. It probably ends with Jay getting traded anyway after the season is over, and probably for much less value than we got for him in 2009.