@MaxBroncos pulls together sobering stats about how Orton has performed at the end of game, trailing by 8 or less

[Tned]

Check out this article on MaxDenver.com posted by @MaxBroncos: http://maxdenver.com/news/?p=3516

He summarized it this way:


RT @MaxBroncos: Since 2010, Orton's led just 1 TD drive in 11 series in the last 10 minutes of games when down 1-8 pts. Also worth noting: in those same late-game narrow-deficit situations, Orton's rating is 46.2 on 22-of-46 passing for 267 yds w/ 1 TD, 3 INTs

Read his full article, with full breakdown of stats at the link above.

So, it seems like these numbers back up the feeling many fans have. When the Broncos are behind in a close game, there is virtually no chance that Orton will lead them back for a win.

[BroncoStud]

Orton is garbage.

[MOtorboat]

Last year was a lost season. I was really hoping Orton would play better this year, but he was atrocious yesterday in the 4th and against Oakland until the final drive when it didn't matter as much.

How he can lead a drive like he did in the third yesterday and then just look so bad when the number on the score board changes from a 3 to a 4 is just beyond me. It's inexplicable. It's frustrating. Denver should have won that game yesterday.

[Tned]

I think hs passer rating ws 67.6 yesterday and something like 79.1 on the year (not just the close games).

[TXBRONC]

Last year was a lost season. I was really hoping Orton would play better this year, but he was atrocious yesterday in the 4th and against Oakland until the final drive when it didn't matter as much.

How he can lead a drive like he did in the third yesterday and then just look so bad when the number on the score board changes from a 3 to a 4 is just beyond me. It's inexplicable. It's frustrating. Denver should have won that game yesterday.

Speaking of the that final drive in the Oakland game it seemed he had no sense of urgency on that drive.

[BroncoStud]

We saw this coming. Orton has always been average in a pro-style offense. People like to call Tebow a "system QB" but Orton is right there with him. He lacks the arm, mobility, and ability to consistently lead an offense to the endzone.

[chazoe60]

Anybody know his TQBR dor yesterday and for the year?

[Mike]

Speaking of the that final drive in the Oakland game it seemed he had no sense of urgency on that drive.

The bum never plays with a sense of urgency. Why should he, when the coaches are content with the same shite production we fans have seen for more than two years now? The bum exists to collect a check, no biggie to him.

[vandammage13]

These numbers are not new to most of us on this MB.

Still good to see confirmation posted elsewhere.

[TXBRONC]

The bum never plays with a sense of urgency. Why should he, when the coaches are content with the same shite production we fans have seen for more than two years now? The bum exists to collect a check, no biggie to him.

He says he wants big time quarterback money. At this rate that wont happen.

[Northman]

Hello Capt. Obvious.

[BroncoStud]

He says he wants big time quarterback money. At this rate that wont happen.

He's blown that. I knew the second he was named starter that he had blown his contract. He's going to either get hurt or benched, after a very mediocre and losing season in a pro-style offense... How's that free agency looking now Kyle?

[BigDaddyBronco]

What sucks is that after Tenn went up 17-14 you knew that the game was over.

[Thnikkaman]

We saw this coming. Orton has always been average in a pro-style offense. People like to call Tebow a "system QB" but Orton is right there with him. He lacks the arm, mobility, and ability to consistently lead an offense to the endzone.

I disagree. Throw a Red Shirt on Orton and tell him that the Defense can't touch him and he will exhibit all of those traits.

[vandammage13]

Anybody know his TQBR dor yesterday and for the year?

Surprisingly, Orton had a 66.2 TQBR for week 3, which was good enough for #10 in the league.
(Behind the like of Chad Henne, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, and his best friend Rex Grossman.)

For the year, Orton is at 47.2 TQBR, good for #19 in the league.
(Behind the likes of Chad Henne, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, and his best friend Rex Grossman....Ahead of jobbers like Kerry Collins, Matt Cassel, Tavaris Jackson, and Donovan McNabb.)

Somehow, after yesterday's crappy performance, he actually moved up from #26 in week 2 (7 spots).

Just goes to show that there is no real formula to numerically grade a QB's performance.

I still think this TQBR is better than the old passer rating, but it still fails to show just how awful Orton has been.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7020879/nfl-week-3-total-qbr-leaders

[Northman]

I disagree. Throw a Red Shirt on Orton and tell him that the Defense can't touch him and he will exhibit all of those traits.

Or just tell him its practice. :laugh:

[slim]

What sucks is that after Tenn went up 17-14 you knew that the game was over.

Even after he managed to move the ball a little, you know he would find a way to **** it up.

[nevcraw]

what really sucks is that we all knew he would throw an INT to seal our fate.

[BroncoStud]

Thought this was funny...


"I don't think the quarterback position is our problem right now," Frazier said after the game, according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "No. We're not thinking about [any changes] at the quarterback position." - Leslie Frazier defending McNabb yesterday

It's also funny that you never hear teams that actually have GOOD QBs making that excuse... I think Denver and Minnesota have 2 of the worst starting QBs in the NFL.

[Mike]

Thought this was funny...

- Leslie Frazier defending McNabb yesterday

It's also funny that you never hear teams that actually have GOOD QBs making that excuse... I think Denver and Minnesota have 2 of the worst starting QBs in the NFL.

Nobody has it worse than KC.

[slim]

Nobody has it worse than KC.

Seattle does.

[vandammage13]

Here's Orton's latest excuse after his late tipped INT...

"There's not much you can do about it."

Show some leadership and own up to your mistakes. I'm not interested in anymore of your lame excuses...Replays show that you threw that ball on level with the defender's head. He didn't even have to raise his hand that high to bat your pass down.

Oh yeah, and when are you going to target someone who isn't 3 yards short of the first down.

Even if that ball wasn't tipped, Decker was covered and he wasn't getting the first down.
(Unless Cincinatti's Safety flys down to the game real quick and knocks the defender on his ass again...)

[rcsodak]

I think hs passer rating ws 67.6 yesterday and something like 79.1 on the year (not just the close games).
Of course, tenn's D had NOTHING to do with it. And Balti's offense sucks as well.

Whats ironic, is MANY here said they would be happy with close games (no blowouts) and improvement.

Well, the run D is improving (tho i'm on the record cj would continue to suck from his holding out), but the pass rush and subsequent horrendous pass D is whats killing their chances of winning. Hasselbeck was throwing at an 80% clip in the 1st half. With no doom/champ, inside pressure, qb's will continue to feast.

The positive is the Oline didnt give up half a dozen sacks again. But because of that, linemen were throwing their arms up (as is taught) and getting knockdowns/deflections.

Tenn's D hadnt given up a redzone TD until yesterday's 2. Yet another positive.
And only 1 penalty, though ill-timed.

Yes, orton overthrew decker.....or, decker cut short his route. Nobody knows for certain.

And the lack of a run game (credit the D) didnt help.

Im okay with the loss. It stings, but theyre growing and working together.

And just as shanny stubbornly stuck with, i didnt like the 4th down attempt. Its almost like fox didnt trust the D?

[rcsodak]

Anybody know his TQBR dor yesterday and for the year?
Lmao. The ONLY people worred about that is fans.

[BroncoStud]

RC, thought this suited you well...

http://www.thristhan.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ignorance-is-bliss.jpg

[Northman]

Its almost like fox didnt trust the D?

And he was right.

[TXBRONC]

Of course, tenn's D had NOTHING to do with it. And Balti's offense sucks as well.

Whats ironic, is MANY here said they would be happy with close games (no blowouts) and improvement.

Well, the run D is improving (tho i'm on the record cj would continue to suck from his holding out), but the pass rush and subsequent horrendous pass D is whats killing their chances of winning. Hasselbeck was throwing at an 80% clip in the 1st half. With no doom/champ, inside pressure, qb's will continue to feast.

The positive is the Oline didnt give up half a dozen sacks again. But because of that, linemen were throwing their arms up (as is taught) and getting knockdowns/deflections.

Tenn's D hadnt given up a redzone TD until yesterday's 2. Yet another positive.
And only 1 penalty, though ill-timed.

Yes, orton overthrew decker.....or, decker cut short his route. Nobody knows for certain.

And the lack of a run game (credit the D) didnt help.

Im okay with the loss. It stings, but theyre growing and working together.

And just as shanny stubbornly stuck with, i didnt like the 4th down attempt. Its almost like fox didnt trust the D?


Improvement included the quarterback which he hasn't. If fact he's regressed.

[rcsodak]

Anybody know his TQBR dor yesterday and for the year?

Surprisingly, Orton had a 66.2 TQBR for week 3, which was good enough for #10 in the league.
(Behind the like of Chad Henne, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, and his best friend Rex Grossman.)

For the year, Orton is at 47.2 TQBR, good for #19 in the league.
(Behind the likes of Chad Henne, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, and his best friend Rex Grossman....Ahead of jobbers like Kerry Collins, Matt Cassel, Tavaris Jackson, and Donovan McNabb.)

Somehow, after yesterday's crappy performance, he actually moved up from #26 in week 2 (7 spots).

Just goes to show that there is no real formula to numerically grade a QB's performance.

I still think this TQBR is better than the old passer rating, but it still fails to show just how awful Orton has been.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7020879/nfl-week-3-total-qbr-leaders
What was TBradys? JCutlers?

[BroncoStud]

Take Big Ben Rapistberger, take 30 lbs off of him, take away his ability to run, AT ALL, reduce his arm strength by 30%, take away any and all his playoff victories or appearances, remove any and all of his clutch play-making ability, take away his ability to progress through his reads, take away his ability to man up for his mistakes when he makes them, take away his fanbases faith in him to win games or even be a decent QB. Now we have Kyle Orton.

Yay us.

[Mike]

:throwrock:

Me .... Orton defenders

[TXBRONC]

What was TBradys? JCutlers?

Who cares they don't play for the Broncos?

[rcsodak]

What was TBradys? JCutlers?

Who cares they don't play for the Broncos?
Lmao. :laugh)

[TXBRONC]

Or just tell him its practice. :laugh:


That wouldn't have worked for long because the first time he took hit he would realize this isn't practice.

[Northman]

Brady- 85.3 (ranked 1st)
Jay Cutler- 29.4 (Ranked 28th)

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Of course, tenn's D had NOTHING to do with it. And Balti's offense sucks as well.

Whats ironic, is MANY here said they would be happy with close games (no blowouts) and improvement.

Well, the run D is improving (tho i'm on the record cj would continue to suck from his holding out), but the pass rush and subsequent horrendous pass D is whats killing their chances of winning. Hasselbeck was throwing at an 80% clip in the 1st half. With no doom/champ, inside pressure, qb's will continue to feast.

The positive is the Oline didnt give up half a dozen sacks again. But because of that, linemen were throwing their arms up (as is taught) and getting knockdowns/deflections.

Tenn's D hadnt given up a redzone TD until yesterday's 2. Yet another positive.
And only 1 penalty, though ill-timed.

Yes, orton overthrew decker.....or, decker cut short his route. Nobody knows for certain.

And the lack of a run game (credit the D) didnt help.

Im okay with the loss. It stings, but theyre growing and working together.

And just as shanny stubbornly stuck with, i didnt like the 4th down attempt. Its almost like fox didnt trust the D?

RC, you can beat that drum for Orton all you want, but your beatin' stick is broken and your drum head is torn. Orton has been given the ball many times and told to go out and win the game (as all starting QBs are paid to do) he fails much more often than he succeeds. typically, orton plays the worst when the rest of the team plays the best. Most of his INTs are unforced - meaning he isn't even pressured, he just makes bad reads and bad throws. I've never seen a more anti-clutch QB in a Broncos uniform... EVER.

[vandammage13]

What was TBradys? JCutlers?

check the link if you are truly interested...

[TXBRONC]

Lmao. :laugh)

So you don't having anything other tha to hijack the threat by attempting to bait me into an argument?

[Tned]

Even after he managed to move the ball a little, you know he would find a way to **** it up.

At least he didn't fumble. That's a sign of improvement. Baby steps.

[slim]

At least he didn't fumble. That's a sign of improvement. Baby steps.

:laugh:

That's actually what I was expecting.

[chazoe60]

Lmao. The ONLY people worred about that is fans.

:laugh::laugh:

It's a fan MB. Duh.


When did you get a job in the NFL?

[jhildebrand]

Of course, tenn's D had NOTHING to do with it. And Balti's offense sucks as well.

Whats ironic, is MANY here said they would be happy with close games (no blowouts) and improvement.

Well, the run D is improving (tho i'm on the record cj would continue to suck from his holding out), but the pass rush and subsequent horrendous pass D is whats killing their chances of winning. Hasselbeck was throwing at an 80% clip in the 1st half. With no doom/champ, inside pressure, qb's will continue to feast.

The positive is the Oline didnt give up half a dozen sacks again. But because of that, linemen were throwing their arms up (as is taught) and getting knockdowns/deflections.

Tenn's D hadnt given up a redzone TD until yesterday's 2. Yet another positive.
And only 1 penalty, though ill-timed.

Yes, orton overthrew decker.....or, decker cut short his route. Nobody knows for certain.

And the lack of a run game (credit the D) didnt help.

Im okay with the loss. It stings, but theyre growing and working together.

And just as shanny stubbornly stuck with, i didnt like the 4th down attempt. Its almost like fox didnt trust the D?

I will address this head on.

I am one of those people who said I would be ok with a couple of losing seasons as long as this team was growing and getting better.

So far this team appears to have drafted pretty well. Check. I am stoked about that.

Losses-they suck but I expected it.

What I am not ok with is seeing Orton trotted out at QB time and again after being told this team wants and expects to win. It is clear he isn't the best QB. I think you see so much anger at this point because the guy is 6-18 in his last 24. The Broncos are exercising the definition of insanity. You are seeing what you are because many feel yesterday would have and could have been a win even if TT was only inserted in the GL.

So while I am ok with growing pains and some losing, I am not ok being treated like a mushroom by the team when it comes to Orton.

[GEM]

Here's Orton's latest excuse after his late tipped INT...


Show some leadership and own up to your mistakes. I'm not interested in anymore of your lame excuses...Replays show that you threw that ball on level with the defender's head. He didn't even have to raise his hand that high to bat your pass down.

Oh yeah, and when are you going to target someone who isn't 3 yards short of the first down.

Even if that ball wasn't tipped, Decker was covered and he wasn't getting the first down.
(Unless Cincinatti's Safety flys down to the game real quick and knocks the defender on his ass again...)

6 tipped balls yesterday....6. That is ALL on Kyle and the playcalling. Quit throwing balls underneath. You have Brandon Lloyd on the field....freaking utilize him. Orton...scared of Finnegan. :lol: Chump. Decker has proven he can catch long balls.

The other thing that pissed me off....Hasselback's freaking side throws. Make him pay for consistently pulling that off. Hasselback completed how man side throws and Orton gets 6 balls tipped. Mama mia...he's lame.

[arapaho2]

6 tipped balls yesterday....6. That is ALL on Kyle and the playcalling. Quit throwing balls underneath. You have Brandon Lloyd on the field....freaking utilize him. Orton...scared of Finnegan. :lol: Chump. Decker has proven he can catch long balls.

The other thing that pissed me off....Hasselback's freaking side throws. Make him pay for consistently pulling that off. Hasselback completed how man side throws and Orton gets 6 balls tipped. Mama mia...he's lame.



its called pocket awareness....something else orton doesnt have, along with being clutch, elusivness, arm, consistancy, desire, fire, ability to run, leadership, accountability, redzone efficiency, scoreing ability, accuracy,courage,


but hey....he's great in 7 on 7 drills:lol:

[vandammage13]

its called pocket awareness....something else orton doesnt have, along with being clutch, elusivness, arm, consistancy, desire, fire, ability to run, leadership, accountability, redzone efficiency, scoreing ability, accuracy,courage,


but hey....he's great in 7 on 7 drills:lol:

Don't forget that he was dominant in the preseason too!

[GEM]

its called pocket awareness....something else orton doesnt have, along with being clutch, elusivness, arm, consistancy, desire, fire, ability to run, leadership, accountability, redzone efficiency, scoreing ability, accuracy,courage,


but hey....he's great in 7 on 7 drills:lol:

Holy crap...you just named some of the top qualities of a good qb....and Orton doesn't fit any of them. But hey...he gives us the best chance to win.....getting Luck! :D

Maybe that is what the coaches and FO mean. They don't mean regular season wins. They are talking about the Luck sweepstakes.


:lol:

[broncobryce]

Good stat, but most of us already knew orton is terrible in crunch time. Best chance to win in what universe?

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[jhildebrand]

People in the preseason, all Orton fans, all pointed to the "almost INT's" Tebow threw but the D dropped.

Where are they now to highlight the same for Orton? :confused:

[lgenf]

People in the preseason, all Orton fans, all pointed to the "almost INT's" Tebow threw but the D dropped.

Where are they now to highlight the same for Orton? :confused:

Because we don't need them to prove Orton is sucking the monkey balls

He's fumbled away the game in the first game against oakland

Then yesterday he throws the int when we were already in FG range to tie it and get to OT

He's losing the games for us at this point, he's not even a stop gap QB now

[I Eat Staples]

what really sucks is that we all knew he would throw an INT to seal our fate.

I didn't, I was damn near sure we'd turn it over on downs.

[NightTerror218]

People in the preseason, all Orton fans, all pointed to the "almost INT's" Tebow threw but the D dropped.

Where are they now to highlight the same for Orton? :confused:

add another 2 almosts per game for orton.

[arapaho2]

Holy crap...you just named some of the top qualities of a good qb....and Orton doesn't fit any of them. But hey...he gives us the best chance to win.....getting Luck! :D

Maybe that is what the coaches and FO mean. They don't mean regular season wins. They are talking about the Luck sweepstakes.


:lol:



thats gotta be it....best chance to win means...win the luck sweepstakes....not games:lol:


and with that...i agree with efx...orton does give us the best chance to win

[Northman]

Im still waiting for that GAMER that Fox says he wants at the QB position. After 6 years you would think you would of seen it by now from Orton. lol

[nevcraw]

Of course, tenn's D had NOTHING to do with it. And Balti's offense sucks as well.

Whats ironic, is MANY here said they would be happy with close games (no blowouts) and improvement.

Well, the run D is improving (tho i'm on the record cj would continue to suck from his holding out), but the pass rush and subsequent horrendous pass D is whats killing their chances of winning. Hasselbeck was throwing at an 80% clip in the 1st half. With no doom/champ, inside pressure, qb's will continue to feast.

The positive is the Oline didnt give up half a dozen sacks again. But because of that, linemen were throwing their arms up (as is taught) and getting knockdowns/deflections.

Tenn's D hadnt given up a redzone TD until yesterday's 2. Yet another positive.
And only 1 penalty, though ill-timed.

Yes, orton overthrew decker.....or, decker cut short his route. Nobody knows for certain.

And the lack of a run game (credit the D) didnt help.

Im okay with the loss. It stings, but theyre growing and working together.

And just as shanny stubbornly stuck with, i didnt like the 4th down attempt. Its almost like fox didnt trust the D?

do you actually watch the games or get the results over the wire service? Understanding this would explain a lot on how or why you form your opinions that you do.. maybe u may want to turn the light on in that bomb shelter.

[I Eat Staples]

thats gotta be it....best chance to win means...win the luck sweepstakes....not games:lol:


and with that...i agree with efx...orton does give us the best chance to win


Im still waiting for that GAMER that Fox says he wants at the QB position. After 6 years you would think you would of seen it by now from Orton. lol

It all makes sense now. Fox wants a gamer (Luck) and Orton gives us the best chance to get him!

[Tned]

Good stat, but most of us already knew orton is terrible in crunch time. Best chance to win in what universe?

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I agree it isn't breaking news, but Mason took the time to go game for gave looking at the drives where we were behind by 8 or less at the end of the game in order to 'quantify' how poorly Orton has played in those situations.

[broncobryce]

I agree it isn't breaking news, but Mason took the time to go game for gave looking at the drives where we were behind by 8 or less at the end of the game in order to 'quantify' how poorly Orton has played in those situations.

Absolutely. I love mason. I wasn't criticizing, more pointing out that people who actually watch the games know orton isn't very good. Others who just listen to the media telling us orton is the best chance are clueless.

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[Tned]

Absolutely. I love mason. I wasn't criticizing, more pointing out that people who actually watch the games know orton isn't very good. Others who just listen to the media telling us orton is the best chance are clueless.

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Can't believe how many talking heads I heard/watched during training camp/preseason talking about how Orton was most underrated player in NFL, one of the better QBs in the NFL, going on and on about his passing stats the last two years, etc. Nothing about his record. Nothing about how bad his 3rd down and 4th quarter performances have been.

The fact that he would have two less wins if not for the immaculate deflection, and Marshall taking a near INT, and turning it into a 50 (or maybe it was 70 something, 50 YAC) yard TD, purely based on his own YAC efforts.

[BeefStew25]

Because we don't need them to prove Orton is sucking the monkey balls

He's fumbled away the game in the first game against oakland

Then yesterday he throws the int when we were already in FG range to tie it and get to OT

He's losing the games for us at this point, he's not even a stop gap QB now

You get out. Just leave.

[chazoe60]

Can't believe how many talking heads I heard/watched during training camp/preseason talking about how Orton was most underrated player in NFL, one of the better QBs in the NFL, going on and on about his passing stats the last two years, etc. Nothing about his record. Nothing about how bad his 3rd down and 4th quarter performances have been.

The fact that he would have two less wins if not for the immaculate deflection, and Marshall taking a near INT, and turning it into a 50 (or maybe it was 70 something, 50 YAC) yard TD, purely based on his own YAC efforts.

That's because those idiots look at stat sheets. They don't watch the games like we do, and when they do watch they aren't invested in the team like we are. They haven't had their hearts ripped out by a failed Orton drive late in the game like we have time and again.

The thing about Orton that is maybe the most frustrating and pathetic is that he can play so shitty till we're down multiple scores then, just when you thjnk okay the coaches and media are going to see the real Orton, he carves up a prevent defense until we're down by one or two scores then back to being shitty. The stupid media just sees a guy who threw for 300 yards and fell just short, we see what the reality is, a guy who lost it inthe beginning, recovered, and fell apart in the end again.

He's a clinger. He just barely clings on to his job.

[Tned]

That's because those idiots look at stat sheets. They don't watch the games like we do, and when they do watch they aren't invested in the team like we are. They haven't had their hearts ripped out by a failed Orton drive late in the game like we have time and again.

The thing about Orton that is maybe the most frustrating and pathetic is that he can play so shitty till we're down multiple scores then, just when you thjnk okay the coaches and media are going to see the real Orton, he carves up a prevent defense until we're down by one or two scores then back to being shitty. The stupid media just sees a guy who threw for 300 yards and fell just short, we see what the reality is, a guy who lost it inthe beginning, recovered, and fell apart in the end again.

He's a clinger. He just barely clings on to his job.

Not all, but a number of Orton's biggest supporters on here were guys that were out of town, didn't have NFL Sunday Ticket and admitted to making many of their assumptions based on stats and highlights.

[vandammage13]

That's because those idiots look at stat sheets. They don't watch the games like we do, and when they do watch they aren't invested in the team like we are. They haven't had their hearts ripped out by a failed Orton drive late in the game like we have time and again.

The thing about Orton that is maybe the most frustrating and pathetic is that he can play so shitty till we're down multiple scores then, just when you thjnk okay the coaches and media are going to see the real Orton, he carves up a prevent defense until we're down by one or two scores then back to being shitty. The stupid media just sees a guy who threw for 300 yards and fell just short, we see what the reality is, a guy who lost it inthe beginning, recovered, and fell apart in the end again.

He's a clinger. He just barely clings on to his job.

Exactly...I watch every snap of every game, so why should I believe what the National media guys at ESPN say about KO....

They have to cover the entire league, so what do they know about the Broncos that I don't? They might watch a handful of plays or the highlights and look at the stat sheet.

They can't possibly have time to watch every play of every game.

I have seen Orton suck, and suck big for going on 3 years now, and nothing they tell me is going to change that.

[Canmore]

Chaz, I think you need to change your sig back to the old one.

[chazoe60]

Not all, but a number of Orton's biggest supporters on here were guys that were out of town, didn't have NFL Sunday Ticket and admitted to making many of their assumptions based on stats and highlights.

Now look at how his stats have fallen off since he no longer benifits from McD's pass happy QB stat padding scheme. Who couldn't see this coming? Look what Cassel is without McD. :laugh:

There's only one QB in the world that can run that system and actually win with it, his name's Tom and he's married to my girlfriend.

[chazoe60]

Chaz, I think you need to change your sig back to the old one.

Does this one work for ya' Can?

[Northman]

Now look at how his stats have fallen off since he no longer benifits from McD's pass happy QB stat padding scheme. Who couldn't see this coming? Look what Cassel is without McD. :laugh:

There's only one QB in the world that can run that system and actually win with it, his name's Tom and he's married to my girlfriend.

Shhh, dont tell BTB that. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Shhh, dont tell BTB that. :lol:

Huh? :confused:

[Canmore]

Does this one work for ya' Can?

Yes!!! :laugh: