Topic: Conditioning

[Northman]

Havent heard much talk about this on any Bronco board that i frequent but felt i would like to get other people to chime in on our players conditioning. It seems like (not just this year) that we somehow get decimated with injuries quite frequently. So i wonder if the coaching staff/trainers are doing everything necessary to prepare these players for the long haul every year. Our injuries especially to certain players have happened a lot the last 2-3 years and seems to be becoming a trend with us. For some of you guys who frequent the training camps what does it look like there in terms of work ethic and conditioning? Although i expect some injuries every year it just seems like we are really out of shape in terms of staying healthy compared to some other teams. So what are your thoughts here? Has Shanny made it such a vacation spot in Denver that it has taken its toll on our players condition wise?

[topscribe]

I've wondered that for some time. Last year it was hammies. This year groins.
Those can be conditioning injuries for sure. I've read where FAs coming in
have remarked on how great it is here, compared to where they were. I've
always wondered what that meant . . . like how much easier practices are, or
what? I don't know . . .

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[Northman]

I've wondered that for some time. Last year it was hammies. This year groins.
Those can be conditioning injuries for sure. I've read where FAs coming in
have remarked on how great it is here, compared to where they were. I've
always wondered what that meant . . . like how much easier practices are, or
what? I don't know . . .

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Exactly. I wonder if the reason guys like coming here is because they dont have to work so hard in the offseason. Which would tell me that we just arent prepared and in the shape we need to be in to win a championship. Forget the youth aspect of it. If we cant stay healthy because we keep getting dinged up then how do we expect to win in the long haul? I remember Strahan was bitching and moaning forever about how he hated the offseason workouts that Coughlin had but as we have all seen in the end it paid off for them as barely anyone gets injured late in the season and it paid dividends for them last year in the postseason. I really have to wonder if Shanahan is really just going through the motions now days.

[MOtorboat]

I think we should fire Steve Antonopulos. He's clearly the worst trainer in sports.

[Shazam!]

This is one area of the Broncos I am immensely concerned with. The last two seasons, Denver has been probably one of or the most injury-plagued teams in the NFL.

FAs love when they come to Denver's Club Med like atmosphere. It isn't working.

As for Stevie Greek, you'd think with Cutler's condition he would have been tested earlier, or something would have came up in his physicals. Doesn't look good on him. I don't think all Denver's training/practice/workout issues are all on his shoulders though.

A new S&C and DLine Coach is what I want for Christmas. 60+ Dlinemen can't all suck.

[MOtorboat]

LOL

Seriously, you people think its the training staff?

This has been one of the best training staffs in the league for years, and we finally get a year with a lot of injuries and you want to crucify the training staff?

It's almost as bad as fairweather fans. It really is.

[Shazam!]

Denver has had terrific amounts of injuries two seasons in a row. Either they need a new regime or new staff.

All of the Broncos' Dline and defensive Coordinators can't be so awful and ineffective.

It's something else.

Questioning aspects on your team is not being compared to 'fair-weather fans.'

[Northman]

LOL

Seriously, you people think its the training staff?

This has been one of the best training staffs in the league for years, and we finally get a year with a lot of injuries and you want to crucify the training staff?

It's almost as bad as fairweather fans. It really is.


:lol:

So wait, your comparing people showing concern about the conditioning and health of the players to fairweather fans? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

No wonder no one takes you seriously on here.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I think we should fire Steve Antonopulos. He's clearly the worst trainer in sports.

"Greek" is part of the MEDICAL training staff. His job is to take care of the players AFTER they get hurt.

Rich Tuten (a Shanny crony - he's from University of FL) is the team's Strength and Conditioning Coach.

Greg Saporta (also from U of F) is the Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach.

Both of them came to Denver in 1995 when Shanny got the HC job. They are the one's responsible for the conditioning of the players, including off season training.

They are the ones who should go, not Greek.

[topscribe]

"Greek" is part of the MEDICAL training staff. His job is to take care of the players AFTER they get hurt.

Rich Tuten (a Shanny crony - he's from University of FL) is the team's Strength and Conditioning Coach.

Greg Saporta (also from U of F) is the Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach.

Both of them came to Denver in 1995 when Shanny got the HC job. They are the one's responsible for the conditioning of the players, including off season training.

They are the ones who should go, not Greek.

Thanks for the clarification, Mtnman.

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[Shazam!]

I think the effect of S&C back in Shanahan's early days was a different situation. The Broncos' many FAs that were brought in the late 90's was at a different time when they were laregly seasoned cagey veterans. This team has gotten a lot younger since then the past 2 years. Practicing without pads, I think those days are over.

The whole regime has to be redefined. Too many nagging injuries decimated this team two seasons in a row. They need a new direction. It isn't working.

[Lonestar]

I have been critical for that past couple of years also of club med training camps and what now appears to be conditioning the past couple of years..

I believe that tuten skipped groin 101 in his classes..

I know that some injuries are flat accidents like Hillis's was but last year it was chronic Hammys and this year groins..

[LordTrychon]

I think the effect of S&C back in Shanahan's early days was a different situation. The Broncos' many FAs that were brought in the late 90's was at a different time when they were laregly seasoned cagey veterans. This team has gotten a lot younger since then the past 2 years. Practicing without pads, I think those days are over.

The whole regime has to be redefined. Too many nagging injuries decimated this team two seasons in a row. They need a new direction. It isn't working.

Yeah... Champ Bailey would be better at avoiding injury if he wasn't such an unseasoned rookie. :laugh:

[Shazam!]

Yeah... Champ Bailey would be better at avoiding injury if he wasn't such an unseasoned rookie. :laugh:

I suppose then there is no explanation how Denver has routinely become one of or the most badly injury-plagued teams in the NFL, and no way to possibly try to avoid these catastrophic lists of injuries in the future. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't compare Champ to who I was referring to. He was a youngster when arriving in Denver compared to McCaffrey, Smith, Schlereth, Williams, Romo, etc.

[LordTrychon]

I suppose then there is no explanation how Denver has routinely become one of or the most badly injury-plagued teams in the NFL, and no way to possibly try to avoid these catastrophic lists of injuries in the future. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't compare Champ to who I was referring to. He was a youngster when arriving in Denver compared to McCaffrey, Smith, Schlereth, Williams, Romo, etc.

Ah... but he wasn't injured then.

In fact, I don't have numbers, but I would bet that as recently as 2005, this team wasn't very injured. So, yeah... that's one heck of a routine. Pretty sure we weren't injured the next year either. Just flat because Jake gave up or something.

Injury hit us last year and this year.

This is not some lifelong trend some members want to make it out to be. This is why it was compared to bandwagoning.

You yourself said earlier that it was a two year stretch.

Tuten has been with us much longer than two years.


Why oh why is it that it can be quiet for me for several hours at work... and then suddenly I get multiple calls and customers at the same time... multiple times a night?

Surely something is at fault...

[sneakers]

I think when you are passed the HS level, conditioning is an atheletes own responsibility...not the coaches.

[Fan in Exile]

I suppose then there is no explanation how Denver has routinely become one of or the most badly injury-plagued teams in the NFL, and no way to possibly try to avoid these catastrophic lists of injuries in the future. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't compare Champ to who I was referring to. He was a youngster when arriving in Denver compared to McCaffrey, Smith, Schlereth, Williams, Romo, etc.

Do you even have any idea of of what the other teams injury reports have looked like over the past couple of years?

The 2008 Pro-football perspectus listed us 16th in time lost to injuries over the past three years. That's hardly one of the most badly injury-plagued teams.

Let's take a serious look at the injuries that we've had. RB has been bad 6 on IR is terrible.

WR has been normal a couple short term injuries nothing you wouldn't expect from football.

QB Cutler miss part of a game, and Ramsey is out after aggravating an elbow injury when he was sacked I don't know how you train for that one.

O-line has been fantastic Kuper broke his hand but his Dad expects him to play, you can't train for a broken bone.

TE Scheffler and Nate have been injured but then that's par for the course with those guys.

D-line hasn't been injured except for Powell who was injured in the conditioning program.

LB minor injuries to Williams and Webster, Boss needs microfracture surgery but he's always had problems.

Our secondary has been good except for Champ. The turnover there really hasn't been injury problems it's been sucking.

I think the problem that we should address is why we bring in injury prone guys. Without them our team would look a lot better.

Also I know a lot of people are blaming all of this on groins but guys keep finding knew ways to get injured e.g. Acl, elbows, necks, Achilles etc.

[MOtorboat]

I suppose then there is no explanation how Denver has routinely become one of or the most badly injury-plagued teams in the NFL, and no way to possibly try to avoid these catastrophic lists of injuries in the future. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't compare Champ to who I was referring to. He was a youngster when arriving in Denver compared to McCaffrey, Smith, Schlereth, Williams, Romo, etc.

This post confuses me a little...

Rod was 25 when he got to Denver, Champ was 26, McCaffrey was 27, Williams was 28, Schlereth was 29, Romo was 30. That's not that big of a difference in age.

[CoachChaz]

Bottom line is it does seem a little strange that every other rookie or FA is injury prone over the last few years. I can chalk some of it up to bad luck, but when EVERY running back goes down...it has to graduate from coincidence to routine at some point.

The organization as a whole is losing it's edge. Shanny's playcalling sucks, the defense has no bite, the trainers cant keep them healthy. No one fears us and it's only going to get worse without a change in either personnel or attitude.

[Nomad]

I hear Pittman is 100%, too bad he was put on IR.

[Lonestar]

Ah... but he wasn't injured then.

In fact, I don't have numbers, but I would bet that as recently as 2005, this team wasn't very injured. So, yeah... that's one heck of a routine. Pretty sure we weren't injured the next year either. Just flat because Jake gave up or something.

Injury hit us last year and this year.

This is not some lifelong trend some members want to make it out to be. This is why it was compared to bandwagoning.

You yourself said earlier that it was a two year stretch.

Tuten has been with us much longer than two years.


Why oh why is it that it can be quiet for me for several hours at work... and then suddenly I get multiple calls and customers at the same time... multiple times a night?

Surely something is at fault...

Perhaps tuten has reached his ceiling or is flat out training them wrong..

Something is wrong today that was not 3 years ago..

It is ether tuten or the water changed at dove valley.. I do not see what else it could be..

[Lonestar]

I think when you are passed the HS level, conditioning is an atheletes own responsibility...not the coaches.

if this is the case why are there so many college and professional trainers?

Why do so many pros go to personal trainers.. It is because of specialist know more about their field than the athletes do..

Most of the PRO football players can't even speak understandable English and you want them to be responsible for knowing all there is to know about proper training?

Sorry your wrong here 95% of these guys may know there bodies but they are not trained professionals at getting the most out of them..

Do you fill your own cavities in your teeth?

resole your shoes or fix your own transmisssions.... I can name thousands of specialist out there that know more about their job than you could....

Last but not least the Broncos have millions of dollars invested in some of these high level cretins, they are protecting that investment by SUPPOSEDLY having a trainer to help prevent this stuff from happening.. Like changing the oil on your car or buy insurance on it protecting and investment..

[topscribe]

if this is the case why are there so many college and professional trainers?

Why do so many pros go to personal trainers.. It is because of specialist know more about their field than the athletes do..

Most of the PRO football players can't even speak understandable English and you want them to be responsible for knowing all there is to know about proper training?

Sorry your wrong here 95% of these guys may know there bodies but they are not trained professionals at getting the most out of them..

Do you fill your own cavities in your teeth?

resole your shoes or fix your own transmisssions.... I can name thousands of specialist out there that know more about their job than you could....

Last but not least the Broncos have millions of dollars invested in some of these high level cretins, they are protecting that investment by SUPPOSEDLY having a trainer to help prevent this stuff from happening.. Like changing the oil on your car or buy insurance on it protecting and investment..

Plus the fact that, if their demographics correlate with that of the general
public (and I do believe they are just people), the majority of them are not
truly self-starters. You have a few who are leaders: a John Lynch or a Champ
Bailey fall into that category. Then you have the other 95% or so who need
leaders. If they are going to get themselves into top shape, they need to be
led into it.

This is one area where I am at odds with Shanahan. He said that these guys
are pros and should not need to be emotionally whipped up to play a game,
that they know what it means. Not true. Emotional leaders, who convey the
right emotions, get more out of their players -- just ask Bill Cowher, for
for instance.

This makes me wonder what kind of leadership they have in getting into shape.
I know I never wanted to do calisthenics and wind sprints and had to be
disciplined into it when I played . . . and I have not done one wind sprint, and
I have done very few pushups, since leaving football. Of course, these guys
are in that occupation, whereas I am not. Still, some are more self-motivated
than others. That is a psychological axiom. They need to be led, and in some
cases goaded, into it.

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[Lonestar]

Plus the fact that, if their demographics correlate with that of the general
public (and I do believe they are just people), the majority of them are not
truly self-starters. You have a few who are leaders: a John Lynch or a Champ
Bailey fall into that category. Then you have the other 95% or so who need
leaders. If they are going to get themselves into top shape, they need to be
led into it.

This is one area where I am at odds with Shanahan. He said that these guys
are pros and should not need to be emotionally whipped up to play a game,
that they know what it means. Not true. Emotional leaders, who convey the
right emotions, get more out of their players -- just ask Bill Cowher, for
for instance.

This makes me wonder what kind of leadership they have in getting into shape.
I know I never wanted to do calisthenics and wind sprints and had to be
disciplined into it when I played . . . and I have not done one wind sprint, and
I have done very few pushups, since leaving football. Of course, these guys
are in that occupation, whereas I am not. Still, some are more self-motivated
than others. That is a psychological axiom. They need to be led, and in some
cases goaded, into it.

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good points but I have to go back and watch the lockeroom talks mikey has given after the great games and see the excitement of these guys when they pass out game balls..

anyone that thinks these guys do not need motivation just needs to watch how these guys get during that time frame or when the celebrate after a great TD or Play..

Something is lacking from mikey in this area..

[AFGAHNI_BATTLE_DONKEY]

in the 05 season we had like zero injuries. al wilson, champ, and darrent williams missed a game or two but besides that, we were clean.

i doubt we changed any of our programs since the 05 season.

we just have been unlucky the last few years. you guys are over thinking this whole thing.

[topscribe]

in the 05 season we had like zero injuries. al wilson, champ, and darrent williams missed a game or two but besides that, we were clean.

i doubt we changed any of our programs since the 05 season.

we just have been unlucky the last few years. you guys are over thinking this whole thing.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

You have some inside information that we don't?

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[MOtorboat]

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

You have some inside information that we don't?

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Do you have some inside information that proves your point? That our training staff caused the injuries?

[topscribe]

Do you have some inside information that proves your point? That our training staff caused the injuries?

That will not work. You see, I speculated. He stated something for fact.

You do not necessarily need inside information to speculate or ask questions.
You do to back a statement of fact.

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[LordTrychon]

That will not work. You see, I speculated. He stated something for fact.

You do not necessarily need inside information to speculate or ask questions.
You do to back a statement of fact.

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I speculate that bad injury seasons have more to do with mere chance than an issue in conditioning. Others do as well.

Rather than stating fact that not much has changed in the conditioning regime... I'll just speculate it. Just like Afghani did when he said "i doubt we changed any of our programs since the 05 season."

On the other hand... nobody's responded to Fan in Exile...



The 2008 Pro-football perspectus listed us 16th in time lost to injuries over the past three years. That's hardly one of the most badly injury-plagued teams.

[topscribe]

I speculate that bad injury seasons have more to do with mere chance than an issue in conditioning. Others do as well.

Rather than stating fact that not much has changed in the conditioning regime... I'll just speculate it. Just like Afghani did when he said "i doubt we changed any of our programs since the 05 season."

On the other hand... nobody's responded to Fan in Exile...

He also said, "We just have been unlucky the last few years. You guys are
over thinking this whole thing." That sounded more like assertion of fact.

Regarding Exile's citation, I wasn't concerned with the general number of
injuries or the time lost (although the Broncos might be at record pace this
year), but with the types of injuries. Hamstrings and groins are pull types of
injuries, and one of the causes can be either poor conditioning or bad pre-
game or practice preparation (stretching, calisthenics). That is what prompted
my questions.

But thank you for your speculations. I speculate that you speculated well. :laugh:

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[Shazam!]

"The 2008 Pro-football perspectus listed Denver 16th in time lost to injuries over the past three years. That's hardly one of the most badly injury-plagued teams."

If going back three years, that covers 2005, 06, and 07 only.

So, I suppose the 2007 edition had Denver much lower if this is the rationale because it would cover '04, 05 and 06. After this season that may jump into the Top 10 in the 2009 edition I speculate (I will use that word now,) because it will include this season.

I am glad for that info. It helped prove this point.

[LordTrychon]

He also said, "We just have been unlucky the last few years. You guys are
over thinking this whole thing." That sounded more like assertion of fact.

Regarding Exile's citation, I wasn't concerned with the general number of
injuries or the time lost (although the Broncos might be at record pace this
year), but with the types of injuries. Hamstrings and groins are pull types of
injuries, and one of the causes can be either poor conditioning or bad pre-
game or practice preparation (stretching, calisthenics). That is what prompted
my questions.

But thank you for your speculations. I speculate that you speculated well. :laugh:

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:laugh: Regarding luck and other people's thinking habits, I think most posters would only claim to speculate... but I can't really speculate to Afghani's speculation.

[topscribe]

:laugh: Regarding luck and other people's thinking habits, I think most posters would only claim to speculate... but I can't really speculate to Afghani's speculation.

Well, I speculated that he was a bit less speculative, but my speculation now
is that perhaps I shouldn't speculate so much. But then, that also is speculatory. :heh:



Sorry about that Afghani, and that's a fact, although I can't document it. :help:



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[AFGAHNI_BATTLE_DONKEY]

Well, I speculated that he was a bit less speculative, but my speculation now
is that perhaps I shouldn't speculate so much. But then, that also is speculatory. :heh:



Sorry about that Afghani, and that's a fact, although I can't document it. :help:



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its ok. i forgive you