Is it possible Slowick did not know Steve Smith plays for the Panthers?

[scott.475]

Just wondering...:D

[Mike]

There are a lot of things Slowick doesn't know.

[PatricktheDookie]

Hey, we stopped the running game for the most part!

And if we had a healthy Champ, things would have been much different defensively.

Considering how injured and outmatched we were, I'm not devastated over this loss.

[jrelway]

Hey, we stopped the running game for the most part!

And if we had a healthy Champ, things would have been much different defensively.

Considering how injured and outmatched we were, I'm not devastated over this loss.

we didnt stop shit today. carolina looked like a dynasty team against a powder puff team.

[honz]

Nobody stops Steve Smith no matter what they do. Stop blaming our coaches for everything!!! We have no pass rush and our secondary flat out sucks without Champ in there. Do I think Slowick could do better? Yes, but 4 DCs in 5 years (or whatever it is) and the fact that our D still sucks speaks for itself.

[G_Money]

I'm not sure how you can play 8 in the box and yet, when it turns out it's a pass, that no one can get pressure on Delhomme.

We have a unique ability to stymie ourselves.

The guys are playing hard. I can't really fault them for that. But man is it frustrating to know that other teams literally have to help us win. If they decide they want to any team in the league can go 12 plays and 80 yards against us for scores.

It's like playing a Tampa 2 defense without any turnovers or pressure (though it was mostly a 1-deep zone today).

Can you PLAY a prevent-defense with 8 in the box? Slowik's schemes are imaginative.

Useless, but imaginative.

I adore playing 15 yards off the LOS when they're on our 16, and having our safety on the 2 when they're on our 25.

This cushion thing is seriously the most stubbornly obnoxious thing I've seen in a long time.

Please please PLEASE let us add Fisher's friend Gregg Williams as our DC when J-Ville fires him.

HE knows how to run an aggressive, speed-based defense.

~G

[Nomad]

Nobody stops Steve Smith no matter what they do. Stop blaming our coaches for everything!!! We have no pass rush and our secondary flat out sucks without Champ in there. Do I think Slowick could do better? Yes, but 4 DCs in 5 years (or whatever it is) and the fact that our D still sucks speaks for itself.

If Slowick would try and adjust his schemes, he wouldn't be so ridiculed! I agree about the personnel but a good coach has to adjust and Slowick hasn't shown that no matter if the personnel can do the job or not.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I started J Stewart today. Fidures they go pass happy on us...

[gobroncsnv]

I'm not sure how you can play 8 in the box and yet, when it turns out it's a pass, that no one can get pressure on Delhomme.

We have a unique ability to stymie ourselves.

The guys are playing hard. I can't really fault them for that. But man is it frustrating to know that other teams literally have to help us win. If they decide they want to any team in the league can go 12 plays and 80 yards against us for scores.

It's like playing a Tampa 2 defense without any turnovers or pressure (though it was mostly a 1-deep zone today).

Can you PLAY a prevent-defense with 8 in the box? Slowik's schemes are imaginative.

Useless, but imaginative.

I adore playing 15 yards off the LOS when they're on our 16, and having our safety on the 2 when they're on our 25.

This cushion thing is seriously the most stubbornly obnoxious thing I've seen in a long time.

Please please PLEASE let us add Fisher's friend Gregg Williams as our DC when J-Ville fires him.

HE knows how to run an aggressive, speed-based defense.

~G

Does anyone think Slowik is telling our front 4 NOT to bring pressure? IF not, are the guys we have good enough? Doesn't MATTER how much they TRY... (insert famous line from Yoda)

On the cushion thing, do we have healthy players right now who can play man with Smith? Does anybody? Agreed, leaving him that open was fairly unbelievable, but he got open several times today because he had plenty of time to do so.

Don't get me wrong, our play-calling today was REALLY sucky, both sides of the ball. Once 'lina figured we were gonna "let" them throw (like, who have we stopped this year, so far?), their scheme changed to do exactly that, because we have no pass rush whether we play it straight, stunt, or blitz. Then, once we let DelHomme and Smith beat us senseless, their run game did some damage.

Right now, it won't do much good to find somebody to drive the horses, 'cause we don't have any. Coyer was the best we had over the past 10, and we didn't give him the luxury of a pass rush front line, and Indy cleaned our plow twice, Pitt did it once.

So here's my main point, I don't think the guys we have would be starters up front on ANY other div-leading team. We are trying to play defense without quality/consistency at the point of attack. I heard Robertson's name once today. Don't recall Thomas at all. No Elvis, no Moss... Peterson once. These guys are too stinking anonymous.

So if we go for Williams, Nolan, WHOEVER, and not give them a new front fence, or doing a LOT to improve it, we'll just be doing a review of the definition of insanity... keep trying the same thing over and over, expecting, BUT NOT GETTING, a different result.

[gscottnc5]

Hey, we stopped the running game for the most part!

And if we had a healthy Champ, things would have been much different defensively.

Considering how injured and outmatched we were, I'm not devastated over this loss.

Please know, the only reason you stopped our running is because we stopped running the ball and started throwing the ball

D. will. had 12 carries for 88 yds. Didnt play most of the second half. J. Stew i think had 19 carries for 52 yds. So we had 140 yds on 31 carries. We still averaged 4.5 yds per. I'll take that all day

[G_Money]

So here's my main point, I don't think the guys we have would be starters up front on ANY other div-leading team. We are trying to play defense without quality/consistency at the point of attack. I heard Robertson's name once today. Don't recall Thomas at all. No Elvis, no Moss... Peterson once. These guys are too stinking anonymous.

So if we go for Williams, Nolan, WHOEVER, and not give them a new front fence, or doing a LOT to improve it, we'll just be doing a review of the definition of insanity... keep trying the same thing over and over, expecting, BUT NOT GETTING, a different result.

I can appreciate that.

But you're asking a team that has historically NEVER been good at adding DL talent to somehow come up with some.

Fast.

DL take a couple of years to get the hang of playing in the pros, typically. Even if we somehow got 2 of the top-5 DL in the draft it would be a couple of years before they became anything.

How's Glen Dorsey doing as an impact player?

Answer: He's...learning.

So would you rather have the young players that we currently have and the young players we're going to get be taught by the people who have absolutely failed to turn any of the dozens of DL we've had recently into anybody...or would you like to get a decent set of teachers in to maximize the new talent we also need?

I'd rather have better teachers, and better schemers, to maximize the better talent we will hopefully add.

And while we're waiting for the better talent to get maximized, maybe the new teachers and new schemers can be more adequate with the current players we do have.

~G

[G_Money]

Please know, the only reason you stopped our running is because we stopped running the ball and started throwing the ball

D. will. had 12 carries for 88 yds. Didnt play most of the second half. J. Stew i think had 19 carries for 52 yds. So we had 140 yds on 31 carries. We still averaged 4.5 yds per. I'll take that all day

We had no way to stop you fellas. We did all right in the first half against the run by stacking the box, but after some Steve Smith work we softened right up and the running attack hit home.

Carolina looks like they should enjoy a decent run through the NFC playoffs. Congrats to you. I hope Delhomme keeps his head on straight.

But I'll want another crack at y'all in a year or two when when we've got our talent, injury and coaching situations sorted out. ;)

~G

[horsepig]

G, don't forget Pryce, Haywood. and and ... can't remember names. We've had some, we just won't pony up to keep'em here.

[horsepig]

Gscot's gloating and that's okay. They have a very good team, old fashioned ass-whoopin type of team.

[gobroncsnv]

But the guy you advocate, Williams, has a really good dline in Jax, certainly better than what we have here. They are middle of the pack in sacks this year. Pretty much the same for total D.

I pretty much concede that our defense is NOT good enough this year to get us anywhere, and our O is too inconsistent. We'll win the division this year, albeit by backing in, but our bus ain't going too far. So the fix I BEG for is once again awaiting another off season. It just is SO obvious to me to see it played out AGAIN in our season.

I know that you're not thinking we don't try to get better players. I'm just so frustrated that we've swapped out DC's over and over, and over, and, oh yeah, over, and our lack of pass rush is still there.

I'm just hoping the Goodman boyz know how to spell D, because they darn sure got it right on O.

As far as teaching, our oline is pretty young, yet they don't have the "learning" problem. Clady came into this league ready made. Kuper came in the same time as Dumes. Wiegman and EE have about the same time in the league. Harris and Moss are both second year types. You can draw parallels to the time in the job, and it leads me to this answer. Our oline has better players than our dline, with roughly the same experience.

Are the o coaches THIS much better than the d coaches, or is this a talent gap? You've seen me write it, I'll take a new DC, no problem. But we'll be back here next year doing this again if we don't give that guy something to work with. We have to improve the talent.

[G_Money]

We had Pryce, Heyward and Berry in the last 8-something years.

How many DL have we brought through here?

An enormous amount.

Price was great, Heyward was good. Berry was decent.

I wouldn't be so sure we know HOW to add good DL. Maybe the Goodmans do, but in their only significant foray into the DL we got Moss, Crowder and Thomas. Not sure how many of those guys were their call, but... I'm not impressed thus far.

If we can't add all-around studs to the DL, we're gonna have to do it with scheme. Robertson and Thomas aren't terrible. None of our DL are terrible. They're just not great, or for the most part even good. They're average and interchangable, or poor at either rushing the passer (DTs) or stopping the run (DEs).

We've GOT to figure out how to pressure the passer. We're never going anywhere if the opposing QB has 6 or 7 seconds to throw the ball every time.

The odds of us getting a bunch of world-class pass-rushers in here isn't great. Not in the draft, and not in FA. ESPECIALLY not in FA, since our recent free-agent adds have been mostly-terrible or tremendously overpriced.

So we'd better have a plan B. Maybe even a different plan A.

~G

[G_Money]

But the guy you advocate, Williams, has a really good dline in Jax, certainly better than what we have here. They are middle of the pack in sacks this year. Pretty much the same for total D.

I pretty much concede that our defense is NOT good enough this year to get us anywhere, and our O is too inconsistent. We'll win the division this year, albeit by backing in, but our bus ain't going too far. So the fix I BEG for is once again awaiting another off season. It just is SO obvious to me to see it played out AGAIN in our season.

I know that you're not thinking we don't try to get better players. I'm just so frustrated that we've swapped out DC's over and over, and over, and, oh yeah, over, and our lack of pass rush is still there.

I'm just hoping the Goodman boyz know how to spell D, because they darn sure got it right on O.

Like I said, the Goodmans added Powell last year, and I'm interested in seeing him, but he's a rotational run-stopper even if he comes back perfectly healthy, not a pass-rusher. Their pass-rushers, Doom and Moss, just can't get consistent (or any) pressure in the pass game and are terrible against the run.

Williams is a bad fit for J-Ville. Their defense is a grind-you-up, smash-mouth system that traded Stroud and had injuries. He runs an in-your-face fast and furious defense. He's not a fit for their personnel.

Williams would be far better off here.

Anybody who knows HOW to blitz, instead of fake-blitzing 90% of the time and then blitzing everyone up the middle right into the blockers the other 10%, would be welcome.

I'm not saying you're wrong about talent. We need 2 DEs, a DT, at least one LB...but after that, what? If Woodyard and Barrett can cut it at S, then that's okay. IF we can't trade Bly then we have Champ, Bly, Bell, and Jack Williams at CB. That's not exactly a huge gaping hole.

The key talent we need is on the DL - precisely the are we suck at filling. And if we decide to go S and MLB on the first day of the draft then we're still not adding top-flight DL talent.

So IMO we'd better get a great technique coach for the DL to get them better at their job and a DC who can bring pressure, or stunt, or do something to help an at-best-average DL play better than it may actually be.

~G

[Simple Jaded]

Personally G, I've seen enough of the "in-your-face fast and furious defense" that Shanahan prefers, I'd much rather see that "grind-you-up, smash-mouth system" system with the Stroud's and Henderson's, even with all the Shotgun/Spread offenses.

I'm just not a big fan of how Shanahan likes his defenses, too much dependence/emphasis on his puny LB's and not enough on legitimate Defensive Lineman.

When all is said and done, it's my opinion that the only thing that could keep Mike Shanahan from adding another Super Bowl is his annually pathetic defensive lines.......

[G_Money]

I'd love that too, Link.

We need to add a whole lotta DL to play the scheme J-Ville plays.

I'm not against it, I just don't know that we can do it.

And there are great defenses that don't have great DTs. The Giants, for instance. Philly's a blitz-CRAZY unit. The Steelers have a really good DL now but they've run forever on great LBs and scheme.

I don't care how we do it, I just want to do it.

And I don't want to scheme for a great-DT defense that is pathetic without DTs. We tried that last year with Bates.

We all want a great DL, but if we don't get one off the bat I'd like to at least have a defense that is functional without ridiculous DT talent.

~G

[Medford Bronco]

There are a lot of things Slowick doesn't know.

How to run a defense obvioulsy. Maybe lets give a 20 yard cushion to the WRs:lol: He sucks really bad, just ask the packers as well

[Medford Bronco]

I'd love that too, Link.

We need to add a whole lotta DL to play the scheme J-Ville plays.

I'm not against it, I just don't know that we can do it.

And there are great defenses that don't have great DTs. The Giants, for instance. Philly's a blitz-CRAZY unit. The Steelers have a really good DL now but they've run forever on great LBs and scheme.

I don't care how we do it, I just want to do it.

And I don't want to scheme for a great-DT defense that is pathetic without DTs. We tried that last year with Bates.

We all want a great DL, but if we don't get one off the bat I'd like to at least have a defense that is functional without ridiculous DT talent.

~G

What is sad is our defense has not really been "great" since the late 70s :tsk:

I love the way Pitt plays defense. They switch is up with their zone blitzing scheme. They set an NFL record today going 14 games in a row giving up less that 300 yards to their opponnets. that is very impressive.

[Broncos Mtnman]

Is it possible Slowick doesn't have a clue about how to be the DC?

Just wondering....

:coffee:

[topscribe]

Please know, the only reason you stopped our running is because we stopped running the ball and started throwing the ball

D. will. had 12 carries for 88 yds. Didnt play most of the second half. J. Stew i think had 19 carries for 52 yds. So we had 140 yds on 31 carries. We still averaged 4.5 yds per. I'll take that all day

Well, I don't want to start a smack war, but the truth is, take away that one
long run, and the figures are more representative of how effective the Broncos
were against the run.

After taking away the 56 yard run, the two had 84 yards, which, divided by
27 carries (they actually had a total of 28), comes to 3.1 YPC.

I'm not diminishing Stewart's and Williams' performances. What I am doing is
showing that the Broncos' run defense was not as bad as we may have thought.

But that is the way it has been for three or four weeks now: superlative run
defense tarnished by one or two long runs. I attribute much of that to youth:
talented but inconsistent.

-----

[WARHORSE]

Please know, the only reason you stopped our running is because we stopped running the ball and started throwing the ball

D. will. had 12 carries for 88 yds. Didnt play most of the second half. J. Stew i think had 19 carries for 52 yds. So we had 140 yds on 31 carries. We still averaged 4.5 yds per. I'll take that all day


Lets not forget that you had one long touchdown run on a burnt rookie safety who got his first start. Outside of that, your running game was shut down. We all saw it. Without that run, your two all star backs averaged three yards per carry. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.:coffee:

[WARHORSE]

As for Slowick not knowing Steve Smith was playing? He had double coverage on him, rolling to his side almost the entire game. Sooner or later, the players have to STOP him. When youre sitting back in a zone, after three seconds, you dont keep sitting there. You move to the guy nearest you, nearest the QBs line of sight. Our players just keep sitting there. This also comes from no pressure. We played to stop run, and we did that. It was a good game plan.

Our offense didnt show up. Had they been there, this game would have been a different story.

We do not have a dominant D right now. We cannot depend on them shutting down a team to keep us in the game. We need the offense to score points so we can rest the defense while trying to take the run out of their playbook.

This loss was not on the defense.

[G_Money]

No loss this season is on the defense, War.

None of em.

We lost to KC after giving up 33 points, but that was the offense turning it over and screwing up.

We lost to J-Ville after giving up 24 points, but the offense wasn't good there either.

We gave up 41 to the Patriots, but the offense was so bad we could have held them to 10 points and lost.

We lost to Miami with 26 points, but the offense wasn't capable of getting in the end zone.

Oakland bent us over for a workmanlike 31, but our offense was atrocious and kept flubbing.

And now 30 points to Carolina, which is also on the offense.

It's pretty impressive to have a defense give up ~31 points a game in its losses and yet not shoulder the blame, but that's apparently where we're at.

This defense can't stop anyone, so every win has to be at LEAST the offense bringing a decent game and the defense doing something, and every loss is because the offense didn't have a great game.

That doesn't help with the getting-better needs, though.

We've improved against the run. The kids play hard.

But that's about all the progress we've made since week 2.

~G

[Lonestar]

Hey, we stopped the running game for the most part!

And if we had a healthy Champ, things would have been much different defensively.

Considering how injured and outmatched we were, I'm not devastated over this loss.

they did not have to run they could pass all day..

Jake went from a 81 passer rating before today to a 130+ they last graphic I saw..

[Lonestar]

Mikey loves fast mobile LB's that is the defense he has seen and wanted from day one, with older rent a DL type stop gaps, since he got here.

He drafted one DE in price, whom a few scouts had projected to be a LB.. but eventually turned the DE into a DT..

Beyond that I do not believe went spent a Bone afide day one choice on a DL type other than toviessi.. I could be wrong there. But he has spent 5-7 choices on LB's one day one..

But DL has never been a priority for mikey before Bates came to town..

[Fan in Exile]

He's drafted five:

1 2004 1 17 D.J. Williams LB DEN 2004 2008 0 0 4 73 2 6.5 Miami (FL)
2 2003 2 51 Terry Pierce LB DEN 2003 2004 0 0 0 18 Kansas State
3 2000 2 40 Ian Gold LB DEN 2000 2007 0 1 5 115 4 17.0 Michigan
4 1999 1 31 Al Wilson LB DEN 1999 2006 1 5 8 125 5 21.5 Tennessee
5 1996 1 15 John Mobley LB DEN 1996 2003 1 0 6 105 5 10.5 Kutztown Pennsylvania

He's also drafted 8 d-linemen on day one of the draft.

[gscottnc5]

Well, I don't want to start a smack war, but the truth is, take away that one
long run, and the figures are more representative of how effective the Broncos
were against the run.

After taking away the 56 yard run, the two had 84 yards, which, divided by
27 carries (they actually had a total of 28), comes to 3.1 YPC.

I'm not diminishing Stewart's and Williams' performances. What I am doing is
showing that the Broncos' run defense was not as bad as we may have thought.

But that is the way it has been for three or four weeks now: superlative run
defense tarnished by one or two long runs. I attribute much of that to youth:
talented but inconsistent.

-----

You are right with the exception that D Will did not run the ball hardly at all in the second half. I feel if he would have touched the ball 8 to 10 more times he would havegone over 100 yards.

[gscottnc5]

Lets not forget that you had one long touchdown run on a burnt rookie safety who got his first start. Outside of that, your running game was shut down. We all saw it. Without that run, your two all star backs averaged three yards per carry. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.:coffee:


Once again, D. Will did not run the ball hardly at all in the 2nd half. I still feel he would have gotten over 100 if we would have kept running him. Our passing game was working pretty well so there was no reason to risk any injury on our feature back. So they pulled him after only 12 carries in the whole game. He usually averages 18-20 carries per.

[Fan in Exile]

Once again, D. Will did not run the ball hardly at all in the 2nd half. I still feel he would have gotten over 100 if we would have kept running him. Our passing game was working pretty well so there was no reason to risk any injury on our feature back. So they pulled him after only 12 carries in the whole game. He usually averages 18-20 carries per.

Ah feelings nothing makes a better argument than feelings.

[WhatEver!!!]

I was at the game and we looked bad... Steve Smith tore Bly's a$$ up. Bell did not do much better but who would when a capable QB has 7, 8, 9 seconds to find an open WR.

Everyone says it; if only Bailey was in there --> I have to say it also. Smith would not have been throw to that often if Bailey was in there so he most likely would not have torched us. He won the game for Carolina on Offense. The Backs hardly got out of the backfield. The Long Run by Williams should have been a 2 yard loss.

Our offense was off because they knew we had to pass. Does a rookie, Pope or a never has been; phone salesman, Bell scare you?? Not if you are playing big boy football.

I would like to give Kudos to all the Bronco fans that attended the game. We were out numbered 1000 to 1 but still held our own when plays were made. Mostly in the first quarter.. but it seemed to me like the Broncos were not even after the Panthers went up 20-10. The Coaches did not change anything during halftime.

WTF moment -- Most of the second half Carolina played 11 and the Broncos played 10 and one way in the background looking for a punt return. Our CBs were playing 10 yards off the WR yet we need a Safety 20 yards out of the play???

[WhatEver!!!]

I was at the game and we looked bad... Steve Smith tore Bly's a$$ up. Bell did not do much better but who would when a capable QB has 7, 8, 9 seconds to find an open WR.

Everyone says it; if only Bailey was in there --> I have to say it also. Smith would not have been throw to that often if Bailey was in there so he most likely would not have torched us. He won the game for Carolina on Offense. The Backs hardly got out of the backfield. The Long Run by Williams should have been a 2 yard loss.

Our offense was off because they knew we had to pass. Does a rookie, Pope or a never has been; phone salesman, Bell scare you?? Not if you are playing big boy football.

I would like to give Kudos to all the Bronco fans that attended the game. We were out numbered 1000 to 1 but still held our own when plays were made. Mostly in the first quarter.. but it seemed to me like the Broncos were not even playing after the Panthers went up 20-10. The Coaches did not change anything during halftime.

WTF moment -- Most of the second half Carolina played 11 and the Broncos played 10 and one way in the background looking for a punt return. Our CBs were playing 10 yards off the WR yet we need a Safety 20 yards out of the play???
:mad:

[dunk7]

I honestly think that at halftime, they told the players..."We probably won't come back in this one. Take it easy for the rest of the game and lets get ready for Buffalo next week."

[Mike]

Ah feelings nothing makes a better argument than feelings.

Let's not get stupid here. They didn't run because they didn't have to. If they had to they would have. Our defense sucks...run or pass.

They need to bring Woodyard back to WLB and move Williams to MLB. Williams was invisible for the most part yesterday and I don't think I heard Woodyard's name more than once.

[broncofaninfla]

As he has been time and time again throught the year, Slowick was out coached. His scheme put too much of an emphasis on stoping the run, leaving the pass defense very exposed. The soft cushions made it easy for Dellhome. Had he had been able to go, Bailey would have helped us out but the end result would have been the same.

[gscottnc5]

Ah feelings nothing makes a better argument than feelings.

Well the I guess the only feelings that matter is that of victory. Good luck the rest of the way

[LRtagger]

Ironically, Foxworth probably had the best game of his entire career yesterday.

[Bronco Bible]

I was at the game and we looked bad... Steve Smith tore Bly's a$$ up. Bell did not do much better but who would when a capable QB has 7, 8, 9 seconds to find an open WR.

Everyone says it; if only Bailey was in there --> I have to say it also. Smith would not have been throw to that often if Bailey was in there so he most likely would not have torched us. He won the game for Carolina on Offense. The Backs hardly got out of the backfield. The Long Run by Williams should have been a 2 yard loss.

Our offense was off because they knew we had to pass. Does a rookie, Pope or a never has been; phone salesman, Bell scare you?? Not if you are playing big boy football.

I would like to give Kudos to all the Bronco fans that attended the game. We were out numbered 1000 to 1 but still held our own when plays were made. Mostly in the first quarter.. but it seemed to me like the Broncos were not even after the Panthers went up 20-10. The Coaches did not change anything during halftime.

WTF moment -- Most of the second half Carolina played 11 and the Broncos played 10 and one way in the background looking for a punt return. Our CBs were playing 10 yards off the WR yet we need a Safety 20 yards out of the play???

I was at the game also and the # of Bronco fans impressed me..........but why would I be surprised?

[Lonestar]

Mikey loves fast mobile LB's that is the defense he has seen and wanted from day one, with older rent a DL type stop gaps, since he got here.

He drafted one DE in price, whom a few scouts had projected to be a LB.. but eventually turned the DE into a DT..

Beyond that I do not believe went spent a Bone afide day one choice on a DL type other than toviessi.. I could be wrong there. But he has spent 5-7 choices on LB's one day one..

But DL has never been a priority for mikey before Bates came to town..


He's drafted five:

1 2004 1 17 D.J. Williams LB DEN 2004 2008 0 0 4 73 2 6.5 Miami (FL)
2 2003 2 51 Terry Pierce LB DEN 2003 2004 0 0 0 18 Kansas State
3 2000 2 40 Ian Gold LB DEN 2000 2007 0 1 5 115 4 17.0 Michigan
4 1999 1 31 Al Wilson LB DEN 1999 2006 1 5 8 125 5 21.5 Tennessee
5 1996 1 15 John Mobley LB DEN 1996 2003 1 0 6 105 5 10.5 Kutztown Pennsylvania

He's also drafted 8 d-linemen on day one of the draft.

like I said 5-7 LB's on day one.. all but pierce and gold were #1 choices and all of them top 50 choices..

when it came to DL types like I qualified above BONAFIDE choice and before bates he took one.. not counting moss and crowder which I discounted up front.. he drafted Day one
2002
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
2001
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
1999
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
1997
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
1996
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida

Only one of these beside price was a top 51 choice and the moron never played a down because he was hurt.. IIRC he might have been hurt prior to the draft..

Of the players he did draft Hayward was decent and not resigned because hey were stupid, they severely overpaid an under motivated price and reagor never saw the field because we at the time were overloaded with expensive FA's he went on to have a good career with INDY and BUF IIRC..

S I said many time before mikey likes a LB based defense fast and smallish to back up lackluster DL's and IMHO we continue to do so until PAT steps in and forces his hand like I think he did with Bates..

Everyone but mikey in the NFL seems to know to have a consistent and quality Defense you need to win at the LOS, otherwise they will nickle and dime you to death with 8-15 play drives.. and that folks start at the LOS and DL..

[Fan in Exile]

like I said 5-7 LB's on day one.. all but pierce and gold were #1 choices and all of them top 50 choices..

when it came to DL types like I qualified above BONAFIDE choice and before bates he took one.. not counting moss and crowder which I discounted up front.. he drafted Day one
2002
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
2001
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
1999
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
1997
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
1996
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida

Only one of these beside price was a top 51 choice and the moron never played a down because he was hurt.. IIRC he might have been hurt prior to the draft..

Of the players he did draft Hayward was decent and not resigned because hey were stupid, they severely overpaid an under motivated price and reagor never saw the field because we at the time were overloaded with expensive FA's he went on to have a good career with INDY and BUF IIRC..

S I said many time before mikey likes a LB based defense fast and smallish to back up lackluster DL's and IMHO we continue to do so until PAT steps in and forces his hand like I think he did with Bates..

Everyone but mikey in the NFL seems to know to have a consistent and quality Defense you need to win at the LOS, otherwise they will nickle and dime you to death with 8-15 play drives.. and that folks start at the LOS and DL..

Of course we do have two super bowl trophies that say your wrong on this.

[Lonestar]

Of course we do have two super bowl trophies that say your wrong on this.


and what have we done since? how many Lombardi's?

[MOtorboat]

Well, I don't want to start a smack war, but the truth is, take away that one
long run, and the figures are more representative of how effective the Broncos
were against the run.

Feels like someone says that every week (so not picking on you top). At what point does that long run become the problem. I hate taking it like that, because its such a big what if. We have to stop giving up big runs...Larry Johnson, Thomas Jones, DeAngelo Williams, Maurice Jones-Drew...

Too many.

[NightTrainLayne]

Feels like someone says that every week (so not picking on you top). At what point does that long run become the problem. I hate taking it like that, because its such a big what if. We have to stop giving up big runs...Larry Johnson, Thomas Jones, DeAngelo Williams, Maurice Jones-Drew...

Too many.

If we could go a week or two without giving up one then I think it would be more valid. . .but the fact is we give up a run (or two) like that EVERY week.

[D1g1tal j1m]

Slowick did what everyone wanted on D, he added Woodyard as a SS in the box in the first series to stop the run. So Carolina did what all good teams do, they adjusted and started to throw the ball against our already weak secondary and specifically Smith and we couldn't stop them. Slowick adjusted again to double team Smith in the second half and that's when the Panthers ran the ball effectively against us.
We adjusted our D, but we just don't have the personnel on D to win if we don't get a big lead. Our DL is more effective at the run at this point in the season (only because the DLmen are horrible at the pass rush) but they need help (the SS in the box).
We are a good team against weaker opponents, but can't hang with the big boys we will meet in the playoffs. If we do make the playoffs I am afraid that we will be a 1st round flame-out and a new D-Coordinator will be hired once again.

[LRtagger]

Slowick did what everyone wanted on D, he added Woodyard as a SS in the box in the first series to stop the run. So Carolina did what all good teams do, they adjusted and started to throw the ball against our already weak secondary and specifically Smith and we couldn't stop them. Slowick adjusted again to double team Smith in the second half and that's when the Panthers ran the ball effectively against us.
We adjusted our D, but we just don't have the personnel on D to win if we don't get a big lead. Our DL is more effective at the run at this point in the season (only because the DLmen are horrible at the pass rush) but they need help (the SS in the box).
We are a good team against weaker opponents, but can't hang with the big boys we will meet in the playoffs. If we do make the playoffs I am afraid that we will be a 1st round flame-out and a new D-Coordinator will be hired once again.


You call putting Barrett 40 yards off the ball an adjustment to their passing attack? LOL

He was so far away from every play he couldnt even get over in time to help coverage on Smith. The only thing he was doing was not giving up the 50 yard bomb....and yet they still managed to nearly have 3 or 4 long throws had Delhomme not overthrown his target.

Putting a safety 40 yards deep and leaving your corners in a zone is NOT an adjustment. Well, I guess in Slowik's mind it is an adjustment :wacko:

[Fan in Exile]

and what have we done since? how many Lombardi's?

He is still one of the winningest coaches since then, there's also the AFC championship game as well. There's also this season where you predicted that we would win like four games.

The problem isn't that Shanahan hasn't produced it's that you have unreasonable expectations.

[D1g1tal j1m]

You call putting Barrett 40 yards off the ball an adjustment to their passing attack? LOL

He was so far away from every play he couldnt even get over in time to help coverage on Smith. The only thing he was doing was not giving up the 50 yard bomb....and yet they still managed to nearly have 3 or 4 long throws had Delhomme not overthrown his target.

Putting a safety 40 yards deep and leaving your corners in a zone is NOT an adjustment. Well, I guess in Slowik's mind it is an adjustment :wacko:

He had to put Barrett off the ball to cover when Woodyard was playing in the box to help the corners. Slowick hoped that Bly could cover smith one on one and Barrett could help cover the other side of the field. After that failed miserably he had Barrett double cover smith. Barrett still had the speed to come up to cover the run except for that long TD run where he misread and plugged the wrong running lane.
I do hate when the D plays so far off the ball but without Bailey our corners are not skilled or strong enough to play man to man and bump the WR on the line of scrimmage.

[LRtagger]

He had to put Barrett off the ball to cover when Woodyard was playing in the box to help the corners. Slowick hoped that Bly could cover smith one on one and Barrett could help cover the other side of the field. After that failed miserably he had Barrett double cover smith. Barrett still had the speed to come up to cover the run except for that long TD run where he misread and plugged the wrong running lane.
I do hate when the D plays so far off the ball but without Bailey our corners are not skilled or strong enough to play man to man and bump the WR on the line of scrimmage.

There is a simple solution when your corners cant cover and your DLine cant get any push. It's called a BLITZ. Something Slowik is oblivious to. Instead he would rather sit our secondary 10-40 yards off the ball and hope their receivers dont get behind us. Meanwhile our linebackers are just standing around on passing plays doing nothing.

When the opposing team drops back to pass, it is like 11 vs. 7. We completely take our best covering Safety out of the play by putting him on the goalline and we take our linebackers out of the play by having them only play the run. So essentially we end up with Jake Delhomme sitting in the pocket with all day to throw. Houz going one-on-one vs a UDFA rookie and Steve Smith going one-on-one with Bly with safety help so far downfield it doesnt matter anyways. We make it so easy for opposing QBs.

Ever notice why TEs dont usually have big games against us? Its because our linebackers are constantly standing around in the middle of the field. Meanwhile our corners get beat by the wideouts and Vernon Fox jumps on the playaction and gets beat by Smith over the top.

I would rather blitz, give the QB something to think about and give up a couple big plays then sit on our heels and give up 12-20 play drives that eat up the clock and keep our offense from getting into a rhythm. Our priority on defense should get getting the offense back on the field...even if it means giving up a big play here or there. Instead, our priority on defense is to not look bad by giving up a big play, so we are forced to watch our defense get nickled and dimed for 18 play drives resulting in our offense not seeing the field.

If the second half was our adjustment, then maybe we should have just stuck with what we did in the first half.

Slowik is a moron.

[Lonestar]

He is still one of the winningest coaches since then, there's also the AFC championship game as well. There's also this season where you predicted that we would win like four games.

The problem isn't that Shanahan hasn't produced it's that you have unreasonable expectations.


I said we could be from 4-12 to 7-9 maybe 8-8 if all the moons and planets lined up correctly..

I saw the potential us losing all but 2 before the bye week and then getting better as the OLINE, all the newbies matured. Thought we would finish strong.. with the supposedly weaker schedule after the BYE week..

Looks like the 7-9 or 8-8 best case may not be all that far off even if it was backasswards on how we got there....

As for unreasonable expectations I have been saying for years we were rebuilding not reloading like many dreamed we were doing..

And yes I have unusually high expectations with the Mastermind :laugh: at the helm .. in fact I expect nothing but super bowls wins each year.... those are my goals.. and so far have been disappointed in 46 of the years I have been a fan..

[Dean]

He had to put Barrett off the ball to cover when Woodyard was playing in the box to help the corners. Slowick hoped that Bly could cover smith one on one and Barrett could help cover the other side of the field. After that failed miserably he had Barrett double cover smith. Barrett still had the speed to come up to cover the run except for that long TD run where he misread and plugged the wrong running lane.
I do hate when the D plays so far off the ball but without Bailey our corners are not skilled or strong enough to play man to man and bump the WR on the line of scrimmage.


It looked to me like the cover 3 and man free defenses of the '70s. The safety is assigned deep responsibility on both sides of the field. He must have extra depth to do that.

As you said, it was merely an attempt to use Woodyard as a free safety (really a 44 LB) without giving him any more than minumal coverage responsibility.

It wasn't successful against the pass but other than one run it was exactly what they hoped it would do versus their backs.

[Superchop 7]

Take out the big run and it was 3.1 ypc.

We need Champ back.

[Mike]

Take out the big run and it was 3.1 ypc.

We need Champ back.

Take away Carolina's points and we win. ;)

[MOtorboat]

Take out the big run and it was 3.1 ypc.

We can't. It happened.

[Dean]

Even including the long TD we held their running game to about half what they gained the week before. We were effective against the run.

The coverages whether in cover 3 or man free were seriously lacking.

[Lonestar]

Even including the long TD we held their running game to about half what they gained the week before. We were effective against the run.

The coverages whether in cover 3 or man free were seriously lacking.

The issue really was they did not have to even try and run on us.. the pass was working..

For Gods sake Jake had a 81 passer rating coming into the game and the last pop up I saw on him was 136 or something like that..

no need to run if you can pass at will. or mix one in every so often just to keep us honest..

[Benetto]

I guess Slow-wit didn't get my post about double teaming 89 on every play he is on the field...WHY GIVE HIM ANY ROOM on the line of scrimmage?

THE MAN IS only 5'9'' 185.....Why not bump him at the line and double team him? Take him out of the game?

YOU IDIOT SLOWIK!!

[MOtorboat]

I guess Slow-wit didn't get my post about double teaming 89 on every play he is on the field...WHY GIVE HIM ANY ROOM on the line of scrimmage?

THE MAN IS only 5'9'' 185.....Why not bump him at the line and double team him? Take him out of the game?

YOU IDIOT SLOWIK!!

I'm always the last one on the "blame the coaches" bandwagon, but that was pretty freakin' bad.

I knew after a few pass plays that the one-over-the-top, eight in the box scheme we ran on EVERY play wasn't going to work.

This scheme works if you've got the athletes, and we just don't have the athletes and can't get pressure on the quarterback. We have to change up the scheme from play-to-play and quarter-to-quarter. Apparently, Slowik just can't do that.

[gscottnc5]

Take out the big run and it was 3.1 ypc.

We need Champ back.

Take the ball off the field and you can't play.

I mean take out the big run? Are you serious? OK take it away. At this point deangelo would have only run the ball 11 times. Let's then add about 10 more attempts. I bet you anything he would get over a 100 yds on 21 carries.

The Panthers stopped running the ball! Period. You didn't hold Deangelo to anything. WE STOPPED RUNNING THE BALL!! Our passing game was working just fine. John fox sat D.Will for most of the second half. So you can't say,"well if not for the big run we held DWill to 3.1 per". It's just not accurate. There is no way to know how many more or less yards DWill would have had.

[gscottnc5]

THE MAN IS only 5'9'' 185.....Why not bump him at the line and double team him? Take him out of the game?

YOU IDIOT SLOWIK!!

Smitty is too fast and too strong to man press. The more physical you are with him the more he loves it. he may be 5'9" 185, but he plays much bigger than that. It showed on the field too.


Steve smith is the TOP receiver in the nfl. He is currently listed as 3rd in yds and that is with being suspended for the first two games of the year.

[weazel]

just letting everyone know that the first page of this thread has attached malware. I haven't looked at the page so I couldn't tell you where, but my web scanner alerted me when I clicked on the link.

[MOtorboat]

just letting everyone know that the first page of this thread has attached malware. I haven't looked at the page so I couldn't tell you where, but my web scanner alerted me when I clicked on the link.

Don't see anything suspicious...

[weazel]

Its probably a posted link or an avatar hosted on a different site, this is what I get from the alert.

the link is to www.lucianne.com.

----------------------------------------

What is the current listing status for www.lucianne.com?
Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this web site may harm your computer.

Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 1 time(s) over the past 90 days.

What happened when Google visited this site?
Of the 195 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 1 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2008-12-13, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2008-12-13.
Malicious software includes 6 trojan(s), 3 worm(s), 2 exploit(s). Successful infection resulted in an average of 3 new processes on the target machine.

Malicious software is hosted on 3 domain(s), including b81.8800.org/, k70.9966.org/, w32.9966.org/.

This site was hosted on 2 network(s) including AS10532 (RACKSPACE), AS15169 (GOOGLE).
-------------------------------------------

Im not telling you not to go on it, or blaming anyone, Im just warning everyone that this is what I found. If its a problem I wont bother telling anyone next time.

[Tned]

Its probably a posted link or an avatar hosted on a different site, this is what I get from the alert.

the link is to www.lucianne.com.

----------------------------------------

What is the current listing status for www.lucianne.com?
Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this web site may harm your computer.

Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 1 time(s) over the past 90 days.

What happened when Google visited this site?
Of the 195 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 1 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2008-12-13, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2008-12-13.
Malicious software includes 6 trojan(s), 3 worm(s), 2 exploit(s). Successful infection resulted in an average of 3 new processes on the target machine.

Malicious software is hosted on 3 domain(s), including b81.8800.org/, k70.9966.org/, w32.9966.org/.

This site was hosted on 2 network(s) including AS10532 (RACKSPACE), AS15169 (GOOGLE).
-------------------------------------------

Im not telling you not to go on it, or blaming anyone, Im just warning everyone that this is what I found. If its a problem I wont bother telling anyone next time.

I don't really know anything about Lucianne, but it appears that they have been infected, or have an infected post in their forum or something.

In the case of this thread, I think it was harmless. The image in Scott.475's thread was hosted at lucianne, but that fact should have in no way put anyone's computer at harm. However, to be safe, and to prevent these warnings, I have removed the image from Scott's sig and PM'd him to let him know why.

While in this case I don't think there was any danger, better to be safe than sorry in this age of malicious software. Thanks for the heads up.

[scott.475]

Maybe this has something to do with it? Lucianne should be a safe site, they mentioned this as being the cause of several alerts people there got. Go Firefox!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Technology/Microsoft-To-Rush-Out-Security-Patch-For-Internet-Explorer-Hackers-Use-Web-Browser-To-Get-Into-PCs/Article/200812315183565?f=rss