What I've been saying all along.... Good Read.

[Bullgator]

About time SOMEONE had the brains and the balls to say it. I'm going to get railed for another year it seems since Fox cant get his head out of his ass, but what I proclaimed on this site will happen. The QB position is evolving.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6887763/nfl-michael-vick-style-play-fueling-quarterback-revolution-espn-magazine

"In other words, while the thought of putting Brady or Manning in a run-heavy option offense remains utterly ridiculous, it's perfectly acceptable for teams to take game-changing, multidimensional quarterbacks like Vick, Tim Tebow and Vince Young and force them to conform to a style of play that is slowly being driven into extinction."

"As former Ravens coach Brian Billick says, when it comes to trying new things, especially at quarterback, the NFL isn't risk averse, "it's downright paranoid." And that paranoia is contagious. For 12 seasons in Denver, Elway chafed under the same conservative schemes that would hamper Vick in Atlanta but still managed to get to three Super Bowls by improvising and making plays outside the pocket. Like Vick, Elway was eventually rescued -- also from the tyranny of Dan Reeves -- by an updated modern scheme. But when Elway took over the Broncos' football operations, he hired the über-conservative, defensive-minded John Fox as coach and publicly lectured Tebow on the importance of winning games from inside the pocket."

[Lancane]

About time SOMEONE had the brains and the balls to say it. I'm going to get railed for another year it seems since Fox cant get his head out of his ass, but what I proclaimed on this site will happen. The QB position is evolving.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6887763/nfl-michael-vick-style-play-fueling-quarterback-revolution-espn-magazine

"In other words, while the thought of putting Brady or Manning in a run-heavy option offense remains utterly ridiculous, it's perfectly acceptable for teams to take game-changing, multidimensional quarterbacks like Vick, Tim Tebow and Vince Young and force them to conform to a style of play that is slowly being driven into extinction."

"As former Ravens coach Brian Billick says, when it comes to trying new things, especially at quarterback, the NFL isn't risk averse, "it's downright paranoid." And that paranoia is contagious. For 12 seasons in Denver, Elway chafed under the same conservative schemes that would hamper Vick in Atlanta but still managed to get to three Super Bowls by improvising and making plays outside the pocket. Like Vick, Elway was eventually rescued -- also from the tyranny of Dan Reeves -- by an updated modern scheme. But when Elway took over the Broncos' football operations, he hired the über-conservative, defensive-minded John Fox as coach and publicly lectured Tebow on the importance of winning games from inside the pocket."

Sheesh more of this...

Listen, the NFL isn't adverse to trying new things, it's just that new things don't always work. For example the return of the Wild Cat or Wild Horse offense, it's been disastrous at the pro level and that system is far more close to the option spread then people realize. Look at the pro-spread, especially the Erhardt-Perkins or Air-Erhardt, while some teams have succeeded with that offense, more have failed using it then succeeded - those which have succeeded such as Pittsburgh, New England and New Orleans have added parts of various other schemes to create their own unique versions, while those used in Denver, Carolina, Arizona and Kansas City have been downright pathetic.

As for Vince Young, the Titans tried to build their offensive scheme around him and it failed...Michael Vick himself said last season that he had to learn to pass from the pocket because that is how you win in this league. Vick didn't feel he was good enough as that type of quarterback, and he's proving it as well on the field. You want Tebow to succeed so badly that stupid crap like this makes sense, but if Vick can transform his game then Tebow should be able to as well, and if he can not then he fails...it's rather simple.

[silkamilkamonico]

This is why we need to draft Andrew Luck, a mobile QB who can make plays with his feet and also run an entire offense by controlling the tempo of the game.

Do whatever you have to do to get Andrew Luck.

[Bullgator]

Sheesh more of this...

Listen, the NFL isn't adverse to trying new things, it's just that new things don't always work. For example the return of the Wild Cat or Wild Horse offense, it's been disastrous at the pro level and that system is far more close to the option spread then people realize. Look at the pro-spread, especially the Erhardt-Perkins or Air-Erhardt, while some teams have succeeded with that offense, more have failed using it then succeeded - those which have succeeded such as Pittsburgh, New England and New Orleans have added parts of various other schemes to create their own unique versions, while those used in Denver, Carolina, Arizona and Kansas City have been downright pathetic.

As for Vince Young, the Titans tried to build their offensive scheme around him and it failed...Michael Vick himself said last season that he had to learn to pass from the pocket because that is how you win in this league. Vick didn't feel he was good enough as that type of quarterback, and he's proving it as well on the field. You want Tebow to succeed so badly that stupid crap like this makes sense, but if Vick can transform his game then Tebow should be able to as well, and if he can not then he fails...it's rather simple.

That sir, is your archaic belief. Schemes don't work on their own... you need the right personnel to make them successful. With a DURABLE hybrid QB like Tebow, the sky is the limit. Any coach worth his salt should be able to create a scheme around his players not force them fit a scheme especially as lame as Fox's style of play.

I'm of the belief that coaches are not automatically gifted or even experts at what they do... not many are savants or have even a marginal ability to be creative. I know that almost ALL coaches are brought in to the profession by family member like a father who was a coach, or an uncle or brother... they promote their own... even if they suck. I believe that out of 100k people in the stands there are many MANY people who are better coach material than Fox and most other coaches... they just became something else in life.

These guys are not great coaches, they are run of the mill average coaches... and the offense is proof. In Fox's defense he is a defensive guy but who the **** says you can only be one or the other? So was Belichik... savvy is savvy and Fox aint it.

[silkamilkamonico]

Tebow is not a hybrid QB. He is a running QB that struggles in the passing game. He plays the QB position to a very similiar, Vince Young, who teams have finally acknowledged isn't a starting QB in the NFL.

[Bullgator]

Tebow is not a hybrid QB. He is a running QB that struggles in the passing game. He plays the QB position to a very similiar, Vince Young, who teams have finally acknowledged isn't a starting QB in the NFL.

Hes never struggled passing the ball in his life. You just accept that as fact because you have been brainwashed by the mainstream. In practice is he as sharp as KO? no, so what. Tebow threw as many TDs as sam bradford did his whole career... 88TDs, 9000 yards the only diff was he also added 57 rushing TDs.

Tebow CAN throw and he can do it well. We just havent seen it yet because they haven't let him do it. 651 yards passing in 3 games is pretty damn good for a rook. 11 tds 3 t/o... youve seen the stats hundreds of times IDK what the **** there is to refute.

You guys will just believe what you want to... just like you believe that Luck is the greatest player in the world and will be the next montana... again, thats brain washing from all the TV you watch... they tell you to love Luck and so you do... they tell you Tebow sucks at passing and thats what you regurgitate...

Nether has had a chance to show what they can do yet, yet you believe one is a bust before he gets his shot and another is a gold mine before he plays his senior season. Cuz thats what they tell you to believe.

[silkamilkamonico]

Hes never struggled passing the ball in his life. You just accept that as fact because you have been brainwashed by the mainstream. In practice is he as sharp as KO? no, so what. Tebow threw as many TDs as sam bradford did his whole career... 88TDs, 9000 yards the only diff was he also added 57 rushing TDs.

This is an absolutely brutal argument. Never struggled? At this point of his career he is a 50% completion passer in the NFL. It's not brain washed. He is what he is. Trying to argue his potential success in the NFL because of what he did in college (on a team where every single one of his players were better than his opponents nonetheless) is absolutely ridiculous. The difference between college and NFL is like comparing the difference between chess and checkers.





You guys will just believe what you want to... just like you believe that Luck is the greatest player in the world and will be the next montana... again, thats brain washing from all the TV you watch... they tell you to love Luck and so you do... they tell you Tebow sucks at passing and thats what you regurgitate...

Nether has had a chance to show what they can do yet, yet you believe one is a bust before he gets his shot and another is a gold mine before he plays his senior season. Cuz thats what they tell you to believe.


They didn't tell me to believe anything. We're not the one's brainwashed by his "I do it for God" mentality. TT is not playing for a reason, and if you are going to sit here and honestly try and argue it's because John Fox wants to get fired, than your more clueless than you come off in trying to compare college stats to NFL success.

Next your going to try and argue how Graham Harrell, Colt Brennan, and Timmy Chang are the best kept secrets of the NFL because they were dynomite in college. But then again, they aren't using God to brainwash you.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Sooooo, it's a "good read" because it is what you've "been saying all along"... :confused:

I suppose that means any article that doesn't support your position is a "bad read"?

[SOCALORADO.]

This is why we need to draft Andrew Luck, a mobile QB who can make plays with his feet and also run an entire offense by controlling the tempo of the game.

Do whatever you have to do to get Andrew Luck.

Agreed. Did you know that Andrew Luck has a 7.1 yards per average when he runs with the ball? Yeah, 7.1 yards a rush!
Luck has a cannon, can make any NFL throw, runs a pro-style offense and when he needs to scramble, averages 7 yards a carry.

So according to the article cited above, DEN should just draft Luck.

[MOtorboat]

This isn't some new age idea or anything novel. It goes back 50 years to Fran Tarkenton and it doesn't create long term winning. If he wants to be a success he will have to be a solid, accurate quarterback throwing the football.

[BigDaddyBronco]

This isn't some new age idea or anything novel. It goes back 50 years to Fran Tarkenton and it doesn't create long term winning. If he wants to be a success he will have to be a solid, accurate quarterback throwing the football.

Accuracy is the key these days. If you can't have a completeion percentage near 60%+ your days are numbered.

[Bullgator]

IMO he is a solid accurate passer. His entire playing career hes been a 65% passer and he will be in the NFL as well... somehow nothing he has ever done counts to his critics... they belittle it and dismiss it but somehow 2 weeks of camp is enough to declare him a bust lol.

You cant have it both ways... either his three games is only three games or they are telling. on one side you say the good he did in those three games means nothing and on the other you say well he had 50% comp rate...

you guys will hate thats what you do. you are infected with the anti TT hype. You say hes a bad passer but hes never shown that.. aside from bullshit you hear on TV of course.

It was a good read regardless of my opinion BUT I am glad someone at the mothership has it right.

[Bullgator]

This is an absolutely brutal argument. Never struggled? At this point of his career he is a 50% completion passer in the NFL. It's not brain washed. He is what he is. Trying to argue his potential success in the NFL because of what he did in college (on a team where every single one of his players were better than his opponents nonetheless) is absolutely ridiculous. The difference between college and NFL is like comparing the difference between chess and checkers.





They didn't tell me to believe anything. We're not the one's brainwashed by his "I do it for God" mentality. TT is not playing for a reason, and if you are going to sit here and honestly try and argue it's because John Fox wants to get fired, than your more clueless than you come off in trying to compare college stats to NFL success.

Next your going to try and argue how Graham Harrell, Colt Brennan, and Timmy Chang are the best kept secrets of the NFL because they were dynomite in college. But then again, they aren't using God to brainwash you.

You betray your stance with the mocking God comments, as no one ever mentioned God. You hate TT because of what he beleives... as do most of his critics. It annoys you that he "does it for God" and in your mind its silly. But thats neither here nor there. Hes a beast no matter what he beleives. You are the one who cant separate fact from fiction, not me mang.

[Slick]

Stop trying to convince these guys bullgator. your boy will get a shot eventually even if it is not in denver. Youre just going to have to be patient, like your boy is.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[camdisco24]

Hes never struggled passing the ball in his life. You just accept that as fact because you have been brainwashed by the mainstream. In practice is he as sharp as KO? no, so what. Tebow threw as many TDs as sam bradford did his whole career... 88TDs, 9000 yards the only diff was he also added 57 rushing TDs.

Tebow CAN throw and he can do it well. We just havent seen it yet because they haven't let him do it. 651 yards passing in 3 games is pretty damn good for a rook. 11 tds 3 t/o... youve seen the stats hundreds of times IDK what the **** there is to refute.

You guys will just believe what you want to... just like you believe that Luck is the greatest player in the world and will be the next montana... again, thats brain washing from all the TV you watch... they tell you to love Luck and so you do... they tell you Tebow sucks at passing and thats what you regurgitate...

Nether has had a chance to show what they can do yet, yet you believe one is a bust before he gets his shot and another is a gold mine before he plays his senior season. Cuz thats what they tell you to believe.

I actually agree with this. Most of the Tebow-non-believers on here don't actually know if what they're saying is right. They think its right based on media and three games in "trash time". I wouldn't waste your time. They will not believe in Tebow until they see it first hand. Personally, I believe in him, but not 100% yet. I need to see him succeed firsthand as well, but I won't blindly spew a negative outlook on him until I actually know it's fact. Mainstream media can suck it.

[BroncoJoe]

Arguing about Tebow in the positive or negative is a waste of time.

No one will know until he's given a chance to succeed or fail. On the field.

I think the Broncos are making a huge mistake in not seeing what he has, or doesn't have. Orton won't be here next year - big year or not. After the way the fans have treated him, signing with Denver will be his last option unless we somehow trade Tebow - which is highly unlikely.

[chazoe60]

You're wasting your time BG. Tebow will never be the QB for this team, sadly. All the evidence in the world points to this franchise wanting absoutely nothing to do with Tebow as the starter, despite the fans wishes or hopes.

The only way he gets on the field is if Orton gets injured and even then Quinn might come in. If Quinn comes in he'll be the starter for the rest of the season with anything better than Chris Simms type of play because let's face it, Fox for as much as I like the dude he can't see horrible play by a QB to save his life. So far this season Kyle has given one game away (yes we lost for other reasons as well but Kyle basically handed the Raiders 10 points) and tried to give another one away and when Fox was asked about a QB change he looked dumbfounded as if he was asked if Tom Brady should be benched.

Sorry bud but I honestly feel EFX has no desire to let Tebow play QB because if he came in and played well they couldn't draft a QB next year or, even scarier, sign bOrton to am extension. They want to go all season and cut ties with Tebow next year and be able to say "it just didn't work out. He couldn't even break into the lineup".

Instead, Bronco fans get to endure at least one more season with a backup as our starter. We get to watch a guy who hates us, and we hate watching (for the most part polls and boos bear this out). I just hope this organization is not stupid enough to extend his mediocre ass again.

But one thjng I'm pretty sure of is EFX wants no part of putting Tebow in any game as a QB. Your best hope as a Tebow fan is that when he's cut or traded he lands on a team with a bigger set of balls and a power structure that actually believes in him.

[The Glue Factory]

Hes never struggled passing the ball in his life. You just accept that as fact because you have been brainwashed by the mainstream.

You guys will just believe what you want to.

No we don't. We understand the NFL. You don't. The NFL is so much different than college. The NFL is composed of the best 1,700 football players in the country. There's easily 100 times more players on the teams that will compete for the BCS this year. There is more talent on the Broncos roster this year than in the entire SEC. That's what Tebow would have to play against every week which he didn't when in college.

STOP COMPARING COLLEGE TO THE NFL!!! Doing so is like comparing flying any aircraft and flying to the moon. The two vehicles have instruments and that's where the similiarities end. Vick and Elway have both admitted that to succeed in the NFL you MUST learn to pass from the pocket. It's not just the "experts", it's the coaches AND the players fer cryin' out loud!

The West Coast Offense was innovative but even that scheme required the QB to pass from the pocket. There's a reason why the option is only played in college and is a "gimmick" or trick play in the NFL. IT DOESN'T SUCCEED HERE! Same goes for the spread offense.

What you are failing to understand is that if any QB in the NFL (Elway, Montana, Marino, etc.) lines up in the shotgun the defense can disregard the possibility of a running play. If a run does develop the defensive players are fast enough to react to it.

Trying to argue that a college scheme will succeed in the NFL and you will be viewed as a retard trying to speak to Einstein about physics. It's just that simple.

[Nomad]

Stop trying to convince these guys bullgator. your boy will get a shot eventually even if it is not in denver. Youre just going to have to be patient, like your boy is.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

True.....there are so many opinions of the guy whether he'll succeed or fail from notable former players that it comes down to who you want to believe.....on the field in live games with #1 team is the only way!

And in the same breath, the Luck daydreamers (or spammers as Joe calls them:lol:) can tone it down as well because he won't be a BRONCO. He'd be a great addition but it's not gonna happen.

[chazoe60]

True.....there are so many opinions of the guy whether he'll succeed or fail from notable former players that it comes down to who you want to believe.....on the field in live games with #1 team is the only way!

And in the same breath, the Luck daydreamers (or spammers as Joe calls them:lol:) can tone it down as well because he won't be a BRONCO. He'd be a great addition but it's not gonna happen.

Suck4Luck

[Nomad]

Suck4Luck

NotgonnaHappen:D

[BroncoNut]

I stopped at "what I've been saying all along"

[chazoe60]

NotgonnaHappen:D

I don't think it will either. I was just bustin your chops.

I say we end up with Jones, and that's cool.

[SOCALORADO.]

I don't think it will either. I was just bustin your chops.

I say we end up with Jones, and that's cool.

Or Barkley. CLEARLY hes a bronco fan favorite and it obvious.
Everyone seems to just love him here! :D

[The Glue Factory]

I actually agree with this. Most of the Tebow-non-believers on here don't actually know if what they're saying is right. They think its right based on media and three games in "trash time". I wouldn't waste your time. They will not believe in Tebow until they see it first hand. Personally, I believe in him, but not 100% yet. I need to see him succeed firsthand as well, but I won't blindly spew a negative outlook on him until I actually know it's fact. Mainstream media can suck it.

Unfortunately, there's a fundamental flaw in BG's arguments. He's treating the NFL the same as college. Until he acknowledges that and realizes that there's exponentially greater talent in the NFL than the SEC, his argument is going to be fatally flawed.

We know that Tebow isn't able to consistently take a 3, 5 or 7 step drop because Tebow himself has admitted it. Therefore he is not ready to be an NFL QB. Vick and Elway have both admitted that to succeed in the NFL you have to play from the pocket. That means taking 3, 5 and 7 step drops from under center.

When Tebow masters that is when he will be able to take his shot at being a great NFL QB. He could have taken a huge step forward this off-season by hiring someone to coach him in that skill. Instead he worked on it by his lonesome with no indications of how much he worked at it.

[BroncoJoe]

Right. College performance means nothing. :rolleyes:

[chazoe60]

Right. College performance means nothing. :rolleyes:

Aparently NFL performance means nothing as well. How else do you explain people claiming to know without a doubt Tebow will never be an NFL calibur QB all the while completely ignoring the last three games last season?

[The Glue Factory]

There's a spectrum of thoughts about Tebow that fall into 3 general categories.

1. He's a failure waiting to happen.
2. We don't know what he is (might as well give him his chance given the circumstances.)
3. He's the next coming of Elway.

I can understand each of those arguments and find flaws with the extreme views (categories 1 and 3.) College experience is helpful but let's face it, college experience doesn't predict NFL greatness either (anyone recall Ryan Leaf?)

Given what we saw in his 3 starts last year I think he'll be something great in the NFL. The problem is that he doesn't have the skills to play the position... yet.

[Ravage!!!]

Right. College performance means nothing. :rolleyes:

it does mean nothing. It gets you drafted. After that, what you did in college means squat. We've seen HUNDREDs.. hell.. THOUSANDS of talented football players DOMINATE in the NCAA, and completely fail in the NFL. I'm not telling you anything, you know this.

We can easily say that even in the NFL, its what have you done for me LATELY. Not last year, not two years ago, but NOW. How many times ahve we seen rookies come in and absolutely look like they are going to be INCREDIBLE!!! ONly to fail from their sophmore year on? How many times have we seen QBs come off the bench to fill in, and look like they are the REAL DEAL.. only to get their starting job and fall flat on their faces?

Of COURSE college means squat. It doesn't mean anything. There is SOOOOOOOO much diversity in college football, that a player being able to accumulate monsterous stats are not unusual. Its so common. The talent level from one team to the next, isn't even comparible. But in the NFL, the games are just sooooo much closer. The talent level, is sooo much closer. There is not a huge diversity from team to team.

So yes.... college means diddly.

[BroncoNut]

Ravage, the bust factor is real. but what I've heard about Andrew Luck is that he is ready to play in the NFL today. His footwork and mechanics are there. ust curious, do you buy that?

[Ravage!!!]

Ravage, the bust factor is real. but what I've heard about Andrew Luck is that he is ready to play in the NFL today. His footwork and mechanics are there. ust curious, do you buy that?

Do I buy that Andrew is ready to play in the NFL? yes. Its not just his mechanices and footwork, however.. its his intelligence.

[BroncoNut]

Do I buy that Andrew is ready to play in the NFL? yes. Its not just his mechanices and footwork, however.. its his intelligence.

well, that too. (intelligence) character and football intelligence seem to be what separates the men from the boys in this world, at that position... given the mechanics are already set

[BroncoStud]

It would be beyond stupid to use a high draft pick on a QB before we have evaluated Tim Tebow during the regular season. In 3 games last season, he was very servicable, AT WORST. At times he was downright impressive, doing things very few QBs in the NFL are capable of.

[BroncoJoe]

it does mean nothing. It gets you drafted. After that, what you did in college means squat. We've seen HUNDREDs.. hell.. THOUSANDS of talented football players DOMINATE in the NCAA, and completely fail in the NFL. I'm not telling you anything, you know this.

We can easily say that even in the NFL, its what have you done for me LATELY. Not last year, not two years ago, but NOW. How many times ahve we seen rookies come in and absolutely look like they are going to be INCREDIBLE!!! ONly to fail from their sophmore year on? How many times have we seen QBs come off the bench to fill in, and look like they are the REAL DEAL.. only to get their starting job and fall flat on their faces?

Of COURSE college means squat. It doesn't mean anything. There is SOOOOOOOO much diversity in college football, that a player being able to accumulate monsterous stats are not unusual. Its so common. The talent level from one team to the next, isn't even comparible. But in the NFL, the games are just sooooo much closer. The talent level, is sooo much closer. There is not a huge diversity from team to team.

So yes.... college means diddly.

No argument there, but you can say the exact opposite and still be correct.

[SOCALORADO.]

it does mean nothing. It gets you drafted. After that, what you did in college means squat. We've seen HUNDREDs.. hell.. THOUSANDS of talented football players DOMINATE in the NCAA, and completely fail in the NFL. I'm not telling you anything, you know this.

We can easily say that even in the NFL, its what have you done for me LATELY. Not last year, not two years ago, but NOW. How many times ahve we seen rookies come in and absolutely look like they are going to be INCREDIBLE!!! ONly to fail from their sophmore year on? How many times have we seen QBs come off the bench to fill in, and look like they are the REAL DEAL.. only to get their starting job and fall flat on their faces?

Of COURSE college means squat. It doesn't mean anything. There is SOOOOOOOO much diversity in college football, that a player being able to accumulate monsterous stats are not unusual. Its so common. The talent level from one team to the next, isn't even comparible. But in the NFL, the games are just sooooo much closer. The talent level, is sooo much closer. There is not a huge diversity from team to team.

So yes.... college means diddly.

So....................your sayin draft Luck.

[SOCALORADO.]

Do I buy that Andrew is ready to play in the NFL? yes. Its not just his mechanices and footwork, however.. its his intelligence.

Dont forget his cannon. Dude can throw 70 yard frozen ropes when he wants to, accurately.

[LTC Pain]

Mods,

This is another shining example of why this forum needs a stickied "Tebow Man Love" thread and all related info merged into that thread. Tebow groupies will continue to slap anything supporting there point of view onto this forum. It is not new news but more of the same info/material we've already seen ad nauseam.

[BroncoJoe]

Mods,

This is another shining example of why this forum needs a stickied "Tebow Man Love" thread and all related info merged into that thread. Tebow groupies will continue to slap anything supporting there point of view onto this forum. It is not new news but more of the same info/material we've already seen as nauseam.

We'd also need a "Tebow Man Hate" as well.

I fall squarely in the middle. A Broncos fan since birth, I like the idea of letting him play to see what he's got, and the fact I firmly believe Orton won't be here next year.

If Tebow was on another team, I wouldn't give a crap.

[SOCALORADO.]

Mods,

This is another shining example of why this forum needs a stickied "Tebow Man Love" thread and all related info merged into that thread. Tebow groupies will continue to slap anything supporting there point of view onto this forum. It is not new news but more of the same info/material we've already seen ad nauseam.

So you must be a racist, Tim Tebow hater.

[LTC Pain]

BJ,

Call it a "Tebow Discussion Thread" then. Whatever floats your boat.

SOCAL,

If that's your conclusion from my post then you aren't as smart as you look :)

[BroncoNut]

somebody please hijack this thread

[chazoe60]

Mods,

This is another shining example of why this forum needs a stickied "Tebow Man Love" thread and all related info merged into that thread. Tebow groupies will continue to slap anything supporting there point of view onto this forum. It is not new news but more of the same info/material we've already seen ad nauseam.

Why take the time to write a post bitching about a thread even existing? Just move on and quit whining.

[The Glue Factory]

somebody please hijack this thread

If Walsh had Elway instead of Montana, how many SBs would SF have now?

[Nomad]

somebody please hijack this thread

When was the last time you pulled an all nighter, nut?!? I need to get out more it's been years since I've been out hanging with the guys.

[BroncoNut]

When was the last time you pulled an all nighter, nut?!? I need to get out more it's been years since I've been out hanging with the guys.

I don't know how old you are, but I don't really go out anymore. I would suppose that hanging out with BDB at Shotgun Willies was the last time. Cant remember the last time that I was drinking with the fellows and watching the sun come up which is probably a good thing.

[Nomad]

I don't know how old you are, but I don't really go out anymore. I would suppose that hanging out with BDB at Shotgun Willies was the last time. Cant remember the last time that I was drinking with the fellows and watching the sun come up which is probably a good thing.

38 yrs young.....3 kids (14,13,6).......15 yrs married, so it's been quite awhile.

[Northman]

And thus another reason why i cant stand Tebow being on this team.

[BroncoNut]

38 yrs young.....3 kids (14,13,6).......15 yrs married, so it's been quite awhile.

yeah,... I don't have the energy for that kinda thing anymore. Still like hanging with the guys now and again (if you catch my drift)

[Nomad]

And thus another reason why i cant stand Tebow being on this team.

Luck talk is equally getting annoying.

[LTC Pain]

Why take the time to write a post bitching about a thread even existing? Just move on and quit whining.

So you're bitching about my bitching? Muhahahaha! :listen: :lol:

[Nomad]

yeah,... I don't have the energy for that kinda thing anymore. Still like hanging with the guys now and again (if you catch my drift)

Neither do I......I have a hard time staying up past 10pm on weekends.

[BroncoNut]

Neither do I......I have a hard time staying up past 10pm on weekends.

me too. I can stay up past 10, but I want to be in and settled no later than, that's for sure

[Nomad]

And thus another reason why i cant stand Tebow being on this team.

North, I'm to the point where I wished Bowlen would have left things alone 3 yrs ago......that says alot for me.

[chazoe60]

So you're bitching about my bitching? Muhahahaha! :listen: :lol:

Now you're bitching about my bitchimg about your bitching. ;)

[Northman]

Luck talk is equally getting annoying.


It does and obviously the fan bois of Luck make it just as unbearable as guys like Bull and Jags for Tebow.


The problem is, i agree that 3 games isnt a good indicator of whether or not Tebow can be a good passer in this league. In Peyton Manning's first 3 games his completion percentage was BRUTAL not counting he had 3 times more turnovers than Tebow after 3 games.

But....

Do i agree that there is a new breed of QB? Hell no. There's a reason why a team like the Eagles are trying to get a player like Vick to become a better passer. Its because when he goes back to just trying to be Vick he cant hit the broadside of a barn. Sure, he can run and dance around all day but not when it matters most.

In the NFL you have to be able to pass it down the field and do it with accuracy. I said it before, if Tim Tebow wants to succeed in the NFL he will need to mold himself after Steve Young, not Michael Vick. If he doesnt, he will just be another run QB who couldnt make the necessary adjustments to his game to play at the pro level.

[NightTerror218]

No we don't. We understand the NFL. You don't. The NFL is so much different than college. The NFL is composed of the best 1,700 football players in the country. There's easily 100 times more players on the teams that will compete for the BCS this year. There is more talent on the Broncos roster this year than in the entire SEC. That's what Tebow would have to play against every week which he didn't when in college.

STOP COMPARING COLLEGE TO THE NFL!!! Doing so is like comparing flying any aircraft and flying to the moon. The two vehicles have instruments and that's where the similiarities end. Vick and Elway have both admitted that to succeed in the NFL you MUST learn to pass from the pocket. It's not just the "experts", it's the coaches AND the players fer cryin' out loud!

The West Coast Offense was innovative but even that scheme required the QB to pass from the pocket. There's a reason why the option is only played in college and is a "gimmick" or trick play in the NFL. IT DOESN'T SUCCEED HERE! Same goes for the spread offense.

What you are failing to understand is that if any QB in the NFL (Elway, Montana, Marino, etc.) lines up in the shotgun the defense can disregard the possibility of a running play. If a run does develop the defensive players are fast enough to react to it.

Trying to argue that a college scheme will succeed in the NFL and you will be viewed as a retard trying to speak to Einstein about physics. It's just that simple.

But you also can not compare a rookie year of a QB to how they will actually pan out. Because frankly most NFL QBs suck as rookie. They have some good moments but in general are not very good with high turnovers.

[NightTerror218]

Luck talk is equally getting annoying.

Wish people will get it into their heads we will not be in the running for Luck, and no team will accept a trade for him either.

[SOCALORADO.]

BJ,

Call it a "Tebow Discussion Thread" then. Whatever floats your boat.

SOCAL,

If that's your conclusion from my post then you aren't as smart as you look :)

Dude, really, REALLY!?!? You cant sense the total sarcasm in 99% of my posts?

But i am a sharp lookin dude. I am always posting pics of Luck, so heres a small pic of me.
http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9600000/Pierce-Brosnan-pierce-brosnan-9651694-1600-1199.jpg

[Northman]

Yep, your gay just like i thought. :)

[Ravage!!!]

You know, I've been an advocate for the "get luck" campaign.. but I started repeating that purely as a joke to our season. But even now, I'm tired of it. ALthough I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get Luck, its just not going to happen. But I'm tired of hearing about it, just as much as I'm tired of the "Tebow" mantra.

Oh well. Been involved in a ton of them. Plummer, Cuter, Shanahan, McDoosh, and now Tebow. Always seems to be someone on the team that is polarizing enough to split the fans.

[SOCALORADO.]

Yep, your gay just like i thought. :)

Thats it. Your dead. And i am taking Bryci!
http://www.infobarrel.com/media/image/16705.jpg

[Northman]

Thats it. Your dead. And i am taking Bryci!
http://www.infobarrel.com/media/image/16705.jpg

You just cant defeat an immortal my friend.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/19151/439492-anubis_by_airaf.jpg

[BORDERLINE]

3 Starts, let's not forget he only started 3 games with a interim head coach and a team with with nothing to play for.

in their first 3 starts would you judge Brady/Manning/Vick and all together scrap them if they failed to produce or show something. Jamarcus Russell got a clear shot on a bad team time and time again. Most of the Broncos fans just want to see him play this year and whatever happens, happens. Draft a Qb, sign a FA whatever.

Tebow deserves a shot, the man went out there and played WR it just shows you he's all about the team. It would be a disservice to the organization and the fans if Tebow isn't given that opportunity.

Unless it's about Tebow's play on the field I will no longer partake in Tebow discussions.

Let's focus on who plays and support the team.

[Northman]

3 Starts, let's not forget he only started 3 games with a interim head coach and a team with with nothing to play for.

in their first 3 starts would you judge Brady/Manning/Vick and all together scrap them if they failed to produce or show something. Jamarcus Russell got a clear shot on a bad team time and time again. Most of the Broncos fans just want to see him play this year and whatever happens, happens. Draft a Qb, sign a FA whatever.

Tebow deserves a shot, the man went out there and played WR it just shows you he's all about the team. It would be a disservice to the organization and the fans if Tebow isn't given that opportunity.

Unless it's about Tebow's play on the field I will no longer partake in Tebow discussions.

Let's focus on who plays and support the team.


Agreed on all points but as some have said the team didnt invest in Tebow initially so if they feel they want to move on with another guy thats their decision. I dont think that is what they will do but i never thought a new coach would trade Jay Cutler either so stranger things have happened.

[SOCALORADO.]

You just cant defeat an immortal my friend.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/19151/439492-anubis_by_airaf.jpg

Dude, i'm James freakin Bond!
Were talking stark reality here. You know, saving the world from evil, mad psychotics bent on world domination!?!?
Your little fantasy world of cartoons is simply stamped out with my cigerette as i sip on my martini and remove Bryci from your little fantasy world, ol chap.
Now if you will excuse me, i have belly botton lint to...find.
cheers mate!
http://actors.pick2web.com/pics/380838/piercebrosnanhalleberry.jpg

[The Glue Factory]

But you also can not compare a rookie year of a QB to how they will actually pan out. Because frankly most NFL QBs suck as rookie. They have some good moments but in general are not very good with high turnovers.

Agreed. But I didn't address that in my post.

[The Glue Factory]

3 Starts, let's not forget he only started 3 games with a interim head coach and a team with with nothing to play for.

in their first 3 starts would you judge Brady/Manning/Vick and all together scrap them if they failed to produce or show something. Jamarcus Russell got a clear shot on a bad team time and time again. Most of the Broncos fans just want to see him play this year and whatever happens, happens. Draft a Qb, sign a FA whatever.

Tebow deserves a shot, the man went out there and played WR it just shows you he's all about the team. It would be a disservice to the organization and the fans if Tebow isn't given that opportunity.

Unless it's about Tebow's play on the field I will no longer partake in Tebow discussions.

Let's focus on who plays and support the team.


Granted he started just three games, but I saw enough in those three games to give him a shot. I saw a team (not just a player) play with passion. Something I failed to see in our two games thus far this year. Tebow may not amount to much but I've seen enough to at least find out.

[BroncoNut]

why is it impossible for us to land luck?

[NightTerror218]

Agreed. But I didn't address that in my post.

I was stating another thing you really cant compare. College to NFL. NFL rookie year to NFL career.

[NightTerror218]

why is it impossible for us to land luck?

we are not the worst in the league.

[Bullgator]

Unfortunately, there's a fundamental flaw in BG's arguments. He's treating the NFL the same as college. Until he acknowledges that and realizes that there's exponentially greater talent in the NFL than the SEC, his argument is going to be fatally flawed.

We know that Tebow isn't able to consistently take a 3, 5 or 7 step drop because Tebow himself has admitted it. Therefore he is not ready to be an NFL QB. Vick and Elway have both admitted that to succeed in the NFL you have to play from the pocket. That means taking 3, 5 and 7 step drops from under center.

When Tebow masters that is when he will be able to take his shot at being a great NFL QB. He could have taken a huge step forward this off-season by hiring someone to coach him in that skill. Instead he worked on it by his lonesome with no indications of how much he worked at it.

TT has NFL talent, work ethic, professionalism and is 6'3 245... he lacks nothing. IMO he will dominate the NFL as he did in college... NFL is the cream of the crop no doubt and over all is much tougher than college(although the SEC is the NFL compared to the rest of college football)BUT TT is the cream. I dont say that he will dominate because he did in college, I say he will dominate because he IS dominant. He will impose his will eventually. He is the best IMO and when he gets his chance he will shine like the sun.

Obviously im not changing any minds here.... I dont care to just stating my opinion as you guys do... I just happen to be right! :D

[BroncoNut]

we are not the worst in the league.
too early to tell imo. we have to be among the 3rd worst at this point. That's my opinion

[chazoe60]

Look at our schedule Phi, we may not be the worst team in the league but our record at the end of the season will be one of the worst. We may not be favored in a game again til KC at home. Think about that.

I think we will end up having a team that is quite a bit better than our record indicates.

[Canmore]

we are not the worst in the league.

High praise! :D We are just better than truely awful. Factor in some more injuries at key postions and that opinion is up for revision.

[The Glue Factory]

TT has NFL talent, work ethic, professionalism and is 6'3 245... he lacks nothing. IMO he will dominate the NFL as he did in college... NFL is the cream of the crop no doubt and over all is much tougher than college(although the SEC is the NFL compared to the rest of college football)BUT TT is the cream. I dont say that he will dominate because he did in college, I say he will dominate because he IS dominant. He will impose his will eventually. He is the best IMO and when he gets his chance he will shine like the sun.

Obviously im not changing any minds here.... I dont care to just stating my opinion as you guys do... I just happen to be right! :D

He lacks nothing? Try experience. I get it that you understand Tebow. Great. You still do not understand the NFL. It is light years different than the SEC and all the rest of college football.

Part of the argument you present is that the offense should be molded around Tebow. That argument is flawed. Fatally so. You have been told what the flaws in your argument are and you refuse to even acknowledge the counter position.

Bottom line on Tebow: he MUST learn how to pass from the pocket. That means he MUST learn to take the snap from under center and use a 3, 5 and 7 step drop before passing. What's sad about your arguments is that you don't seem to realize that Tebow himself has said he is lacking in that particular skill.

Take Tebow off the pillar and acknowledge his weakness that he himself has fessed up to.

[The Glue Factory]

High praise! :D We are just better than truely awful. Factor in some more injuries at key postions and that opinion is up for revision.

Does that mean we're just plain awful? :D

[Bullgator]

And thus another reason why i cant stand Tebow being on this team.

Yea me too, the TT thing in Denver has forever ruined the broncos for me... If TT gets a chance and alls well that ends well then cool, but at this point I pray he gets traded... As it turns out Denver was the worst place he could have ever landed.

Lame duck team with McDick and then a lockout and now you get a boring coach in Fox who was the ONLY coach who actually did worse than McD!!! holy shit we have a middle school here in gainesville that went winless last year, maybe Elway should contact him? Fox is scared, will never take any risks and will eventually strangle the franchise by handing the ball off every play in a passing league. In a year where QBS are tearing the ass out the defenses with people throwing for 500+ yards and 4 TDs we got this jaggoff who wants 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Cam newton throws for 850 yards in 2 games, lets see how many games it takes KO to get 850 yards.

And before i get all the hate mail about being a fake bronco fan, you can keep that shit to yourself. I have always made my position on this clear and owe nothing to anyone. Always a Bronco fan but not at the price of my alma mater.

Trade Tebow!

[BroncoNut]

I'd like someone to name a team that we are in company of and better than. I know there is a team that is 0 and 2, maybe a few, but that doesn't mean we are as bad as them.

[The Glue Factory]

Yea me too, the TT thing in Denver has forever ruined the broncos for me...

Then leave. You obviously are a Tebow fan and not a Broncos fan.

[Bullgator]

I'd like someone to name a team that we are in company of and better than. I know there is a team that is 0 and 2, maybe a few, but that doesn't mean we are as bad as them.

KC or Indy atm... Seattle is up there and a argument can be made for Minnesota

[Bullgator]

Then leave. You obviously are a Tebow fan and not a Broncos fan.

I respectfully decline to go anywhere. I have just as much right to be here. I am a Tebow fan and owe no one an apology, least of all you. I have an idea, why don't you leave?

[BroncoNut]

You don't need to be a bronco fan to be a member here. Look at PAGs, Oakland Raider, DevilSpawn, Broncogator, etc..

[Ravage!!!]

Yea me too, the TT thing in Denver has forever ruined the broncos for me... If TT gets a chance and alls well that ends well then cool, but at this point I pray he gets traded... As it turns out Denver was the worst place he could have ever landed.

Lame duck team with McDick and then a lockout and now you get a boring coach in Fox who was the ONLY coach who actually did worse than McD!!! holy shit we have a middle school here in gainesville that went winless last year, maybe Elway should contact him? Fox is scared, will never take any risks and will eventually strangle the franchise by handing the ball off every play in a passing league. In a year where QBS are tearing the ass out the defenses with people throwing for 500+ yards and 4 TDs we got this jaggoff who wants 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Cam newton throws for 850 yards in 2 games, lets see how many games it takes KO to get 850 yards.

And before i get all the hate mail about being a fake bronco fan, you can keep that shit to yourself. I have always made my position on this clear and owe nothing to anyone. Always a Bronco fan but not at the price of my alma mater.

Trade Tebow!

It goes to show you, that Tebow can't even earn a starting spot on one of the worst teams in the NFL.

[BroncoNut]

It goes to show you, that Tebow can't even earn a starting spot on one of the worst teams in the NFL.

that's kinda what I was thinking as a retort, but I just let it go.

[Bullgator]

I never said it was the worst team. I said it was the worst place to land. Carolina was the worst team. Wait I wonder who the coach of that prolific team was?

Circumstantially it was the worst place ANY rookie QB could have landed.

[SOCALORADO.]

It goes to show you, that Tebow can't even earn a starting spot on one of the worst teams in the NFL.

Oh jeez, Rav. Its Fri and you gotta pull this shit?
Now gaytor fan is gonna bitch, piss and moan all day, hampster wheeling his tiny thoughts on the fake tebow conspiracy he made up in his head to everyone all over again.
Cmon man!
But hey! How bout that Andrew Luck!?!?

[BroncoNut]

I never said it was the worst team. I said it was the worst place to land. Carolina was the worst team. Wait I wonder who the coach of that prolific team was?

Circumstantially it was the worst place ANY rookie QB could have landed.

oh, so now you hate coach Fox. Already.

[The Glue Factory]

I respectfully decline to go anywhere. I have just as much right to be here. I am a Tebow fan and owe no one an apology, least of all you. I have an idea, why don't you leave?

Let's see here...

You have stated the Broncos are ruined for you.
This is a site devoted the the Denver Broncos.
I am devoted to the Denver Broncos (and not any single player of said team.)


Based on those statements and your admission that you are a Tebow fan, I would think it obvious that this isn't exactly the best forum for you. It's like playing World of Warcaft to talk with friends across the country.

[NightTerror218]

I'd like someone to name a team that we are in company of and better than. I know there is a team that is 0 and 2, maybe a few, but that doesn't mean we are as bad as them.

KC, Indy, Cinci, Viking, Jags, Seattle, and Miami.

[BroncoNut]

Don't leave Bullgator

[Nomad]

KC, Indy, Cinci, Viking, Jags, Seattle, and Miami.

Game is in Miami, so that's an automatic loss!!

[BroncoNut]

Game is in Miami, so that's an automatic loss!!

Plus Clay and Beef are going to be there.

[NightTerror218]

High praise! :D We are just better than truely awful. Factor in some more injuries at key postions and that opinion is up for revision.

We are 1-1 with having major player injuries. Not too shabby if you ask me. And we are now seeing the defense play whole games against #1 string offenses. So they will get better over time as they work together and DC learns how each player can contribute. In both games so far we have had injuries to key players and barely lost the Oakland game. 1 or 2 less mistakes in game 1 and we could have been 2-0. I know oakland basically tried to give us that game with all the penalties but still saying we were close to 2-0.

[Nomad]

Plus Clay and Beef are going to be there.

Are they Floridians like Bull and Jags?

[NightTerror218]

Game is in Miami, so that's an automatic loss!!

I dont think so. Dont forget they are honoring Tebow at that game. Fans could be split on who they are cheering for. Could be a long of Tebow jerseys in the stands (gator and bronco).

Miami has not been playing well either. 1 tackle from Doomer and Miami could be looking for a new QB cause Moore sucks.

[BroncoNut]

Are they Floridians like Bull and Jags?

Yep. Beef lives in Melbourne and Clay... I don't know where clay lives.

[MNPatsFan]

You don't need to be a bronco fan to be a member here. Look at PAGs, Oakland Raider, DevilSpawn, Broncogator, etc..Nut, you where am I on your list?:confused:

:pout:

:laugh:

[BroncoNut]

Nut, you where am I on your list?:confused:

:pout:

:laugh:

You're too special to put in a denverbroncos forum

[Nomad]

I dont think so. Dont forget they are honoring Tebow at that game. Fans could be split on who they are cheering for. Could be a long of Tebow jerseys in the stands (gator and bronco).

Miami has not been playing well either. 1 tackle from Doomer and Miami could be looking for a new QB cause Moore sucks.

There's always a first time but history says BRONCOS doesn't/has never win/won in Miami playing the Dolphins.

[Northman]

But hey! How bout that Andrew Luck!?!?

This thread is fail without pics....

[MNPatsFan]

You're too special to put in a denverbroncos forumAaaaah Crap, does that mean I am in the category or forum with "elite" posters like OaklandRaider?:tsk:

:lol:

[Canmore]

We are 1-1 with having major player injuries. Not too shabby if you ask me. And we are now seeing the defense play whole games against #1 string offenses. So they will get better over time as they work together and DC learns how each player can contribute. In both games so far we have had injuries to key players and barely lost the Oakland game. 1 or 2 less mistakes in game 1 and we could have been 2-0. I know oakland basically tried to give us that game with all the penalties but still saying we were close to 2-0.

We are also close to 0-2. We survived the Bengals. The defense showed up with the game on the line, but it was the Bengals. As for Oakland, good teams take advantage of mistakes. We did not and as I envisioned McFadden deystroyed us. The next couple of weeks before the bye will be telling and I don't see us surprising anyone. The Titans can be beaten but we have a terrible history playing the early game on the east coast.

[BroncoNut]

There's always a first time but history says BRONCOS doesn't/has never win/won in Miami playing the Dolphins.

who is this history fellow? I like to punch him in the face

[BroncoNut]

We are also close to 0-2. We survived the Bengals. The defense showed up with the game on the line, but it was the Bengals. As for Oakland, good teams take advantage of mistakes. We did not and as I envisioned McFadden deystroyed us. The next couple of weeks before the bye will be telling and I don't see us surprising anyone. The Titans can be beaten but we have a terrible history playing the early game on the east coast.

that might be a bit negative, but you make a good point. We were winning at home/relatively late in the game and the bengals still could have won that game.

[Nomad]

who is this history fellow? I like to punch him in the face

This is history.......

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?tm1=mia&tm2=den&yr=all

[Bullgator]

oh, so now you hate coach Fox. Already.

I have always hated Fox and his style of play. I believe that his style of play was meant to be used as a strategy at the right time. A shifting of gears. Fox wants to drive the whole game in 2nd gear!

You control the ball and eat up the clock in the second half to muscle out a win,when you have put in your work and your points. to pump the breaks on the other team. Not to play that from the getgo. He needs to tell his boys mccoy and allen to open up that playbook and take some ******* risks to stretch the field either horizontally or vertically, because 3rd a 8 is not any QBs forte, much less captain fumbles.

The broncos aren't doing anything with that mentality other than stunting my boys growth.

IF he treats his style of safe ball as an important PHASE in winning the game and not applying it full tilt, then at least I could say to myself they are stunting Teebs growth in the name of winning, I can handle that, of course the should. As it is its just a cluster **** that has been handled HORRIBLY by everyone involved... The DB FO, Media, Fans and haters.... All except for Tebow, of course :laugh:

[BroncoNut]

Aaaaah Crap, does that mean I am in the category or forum with "elite" posters like OaklandRaider?:tsk:

:lol:

OR rules. Not bad company at all imo

[slim]

OR is an elite poster.

[Canmore]

that might be a bit negative, but you make a good point. We were winning at home/relatively late in the game and the bengals still could have won that game.

Don't mean to sound negative, but when I posted I felt it was factual. We have a long way to go as a team. Personally I'm hoping.

[BroncoNut]

Don't mean to sound negative, but when I posted I felt it was factual. We have a long way to go as a team. Personally I'm hoping.

I agree.

[NightTerror218]

Don't mean to sound negative, but when I posted I felt it was factual. We have a long way to go as a team. Personally I'm hoping.

But we got better from week 1 to week 2. I see us as basically a new team since last year. Defense completely new and offense has same faces (some new) and different mind set on how it runs.

I think defense will improve over season like a rookie does throughout the year and offense will be the same and sputter and get FGs.

[MOtorboat]

I have always hated Fox and his style of play. I believe that his style of play was meant to be used as a strategy at the right time. A shifting of gears. Fox wants to drive the whole game in 2nd gear!

You control the ball and eat up the clock in the second half to muscle out a win,when you have put in your work and your points. to pump the breaks on the other team. Not to play that from the getgo. He needs to tell his boys mccoy and allen to open up that playbook and take some ******* risks to stretch the field either horizontally or vertically, because 3rd a 8 is not any QBs forte, much less captain fumbles.

The broncos aren't doing anything with that mentality other than stunting my boys growth.

IF he treats his style of safe ball as an important PHASE in winning the game and not applying it full tilt, then at least I could say to myself they are stunting Teebs growth in the name of winning, I can handle that, of course the should. As it is its just a cluster **** that has been handled HORRIBLY by everyone involved... The DB FO, Media, Fans and haters.... All except for Tebow, of course :laugh:

So, um...Mike McCoy has thrown it 60 percent of the plays in the first two games...

[Nomad]

I think defense will improve over season like a rookie does throughout the year and offense will be the same and sputter and get FGs.

We've been wishing for this for years now as BRONCO fans and each time they seem to get worse as the year goes on. I hope you right though.

[NightTerror218]

We've been wishing for this for years now as BRONCO fans and each time they seem to get worse as the year goes on. I hope you right though.

Well we cut a lot of old ass players except Dawkins, Goodman and Bailey. We have 2 rookies starting, and 2 more that are fighting for position. I think we look better then last year. I dont think we will run out of gas in tank like last 2 years.

[Canmore]

But we got better from week 1 to week 2. I see us as basically a new team since last year. Defense completely new and offense has same faces (some new) and different mind set on how it runs.

I think defense will improve over season like a rookie does throughout the year and offense will be the same and sputter and get FGs.

Yes we did. We improved. We need more of that. We need to get better each week. Getting Doom, Lloyd, DJ and Champ back would help immensely. Injuries are not something we are built to weather at this point.

The defense should improve with time, if they can stay healthy. The offense I still have hope for. Maybe unfounded, but I can dream.

[Bullgator]

So, um...Mike McCoy has thrown it 60 percent of the plays in the first two games...

BECAUSE THEY CANT RUN! They are set up to fail! What are you going to do run on 3rd and 8?

You think Fox WANTS to throw the ball?

But his style is run first. And they have to constantly play catch up on 2nd and third down. when of course the D knows you have to throw and is keyed up to tee off on KO, and we all know what a baby seal he is waiting to get clubbed.

[NightTerror218]

So, um...Mike McCoy has thrown it 60 percent of the plays in the first two games...

that is what happens when the run fails......

[silkamilkamonico]

If the run "fails", why do we throw the ball so often on first down?

[BroncoStud]

I'm with Bullgator on this one, I was not happy AT ALL with the hire of John Fox. I get why it was done but he has never been a consistently good Head Coach and I 100% believe you should not hire a coach that was 2-14 the year before you hire him.. Young players or not, it shouldn't happen.

The Panthers wouldn't have been forced to go young so quickly had Fox not been so stubborn and phased in the younger talent beforehand.

I want to know what it is that Fox does so well? Shanahan had GREAT offenses, even with mediocre talent we moved the ball at will most of the time. His weakness was defense, he largely ignored it.

John Fox has pretty good defenses and BAD offenses. He doesn't strike me as someone who is going to dominate a chess match against other top coaches.

I'm not saying he is without merit but for those who think he is the end-all in good coaching need to wake up. We were SPOILED watching Shanahan's offenses. Those days are long gone. Carolina had more losing seasons than winning seasons under Fox. I don't see how he is really capable of adapting his style to compete year in and year out in today's pass-happy NFL. Hopefully he will try but every Panthers fan I have heard from in regards to this subject have said the same thing, Fox is stubborn and antiquated.

[vandammage13]

Fox is the definition of a retread coach....

That is all...

[BroncoNut]

Fox is the definition of a retread coach....

That is all...

he's a stop gap till Tomlin or lovely get canned. We need a black hc

[weazel]

About time SOMEONE had the brains and the balls to say it. I'm going to get railed for another year it seems since Fox cant get his head out of his ass, but what I proclaimed on this site will happen. The QB position is evolving.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6887763/nfl-michael-vick-style-play-fueling-quarterback-revolution-espn-magazine

"In other words, while the thought of putting Brady or Manning in a run-heavy option offense remains utterly ridiculous, it's perfectly acceptable for teams to take game-changing, multidimensional quarterbacks like Vick, Tim Tebow and Vince Young and force them to conform to a style of play that is slowly being driven into extinction."

"As former Ravens coach Brian Billick says, when it comes to trying new things, especially at quarterback, the NFL isn't risk averse, "it's downright paranoid." And that paranoia is contagious. For 12 seasons in Denver, Elway chafed under the same conservative schemes that would hamper Vick in Atlanta but still managed to get to three Super Bowls by improvising and making plays outside the pocket. Like Vick, Elway was eventually rescued -- also from the tyranny of Dan Reeves -- by an updated modern scheme. But when Elway took over the Broncos' football operations, he hired the über-conservative, defensive-minded John Fox as coach and publicly lectured Tebow on the importance of winning games from inside the pocket."

so basically what you are saying is that the NFL should adapt to Tim Tebow?

LMMFAO these threads are getting more ludicrous by the day

[MOtorboat]

BECAUSE THEY CANT RUN! They are set up to fail! What are you going to do run on 3rd and 8?

You think Fox WANTS to throw the ball?

But his style is run first. And they have to constantly play catch up on 2nd and third down. when of course the D knows you have to throw and is keyed up to tee off on KO, and we all know what a baby seal he is waiting to get clubbed.

This makes me wonder if you're just not watching the games and throwing out the same, tired arguments against Orton last year...

Half of the Broncos third downs have been third and eight or longer, almost all of them in the Raiders game were the result of failed PASSING attempts on first and second down. If anything, McCoy should be criticized for completely abandoning the run against the Raiders. It was a close enough game where they should have tried to run, and didn't, because :gasp: they were trying to stretch the field against a solid front seven.

That's what happens when you play teams with solid defenses, if you try to stretch the field to take advantage of their somewhat weak secondary, you get exposed. That's why the spread offense and the zone-read crap that you want Denver to run with Tebow doesn't work in the NFL. (Don't bring up Brady...it's not even comparable)

The first third down of the game against the Raiders was because of failed running attempts, and it was about the only one. There was a third down where Moreno picked up five on second down and that resulted in a 3rd and 15, but that was after a holding penalty killed a good first down play.

After that, McCoy nearly abandoned the run altogether, trying to stretch the field, rather than sticking to a balanced attack.

Against Cincinnati just four of their 12 third downs were third and eight or longer. Why? Because of that terrible running game and that archaic philosophy. Well, shit, Denver one that one, didn't they?

I'm measuring a guess, and this is just my observances, but you don't like Fox's "philosophy" because Tim Tebow isn't the starting quarterback, and that's about it? No?

[NightTerror218]

If the run "fails", why do we throw the ball so often on first down?

can you give me the break down of how many times we ran vs passed last game on 1st down?

Fox said he wants to run more then we did in game 2.

[GEM]

it does mean nothing. It gets you drafted. After that, what you did in college means squat. We've seen HUNDREDs.. hell.. THOUSANDS of talented football players DOMINATE in the NCAA, and completely fail in the NFL. I'm not telling you anything, you know this.

We can easily say that even in the NFL, its what have you done for me LATELY. Not last year, not two years ago, but NOW. How many times ahve we seen rookies come in and absolutely look like they are going to be INCREDIBLE!!! ONly to fail from their sophmore year on? How many times have we seen QBs come off the bench to fill in, and look like they are the REAL DEAL.. only to get their starting job and fall flat on their faces?

Of COURSE college means squat. It doesn't mean anything. There is SOOOOOOOO much diversity in college football, that a player being able to accumulate monsterous stats are not unusual. Its so common. The talent level from one team to the next, isn't even comparible. But in the NFL, the games are just sooooo much closer. The talent level, is sooo much closer. There is not a huge diversity from team to team.

So yes.... college means diddly.

Ok, college means squat. You keep saying we've seen, we've seen...yet have we really seen Tebow. Can you base your opinion on what you've seen or are you just taking the talking heads word for it?

I don't want to take the chance that I believe some dude that said that Aaron Rogers was going to bomb and Ryan Leaf was going to be a star. I want to see for myself and I would hope that our new coaching staff would want the same.

The old adage he gives us the best chance to win gets rather stale when all you do is lose.

[Jsteve01]

I hear the wing T is making a comeback in some circles....maybe we could run that offense.

[Ravage!!!]

Ok, college means squat. You keep saying we've seen, we've seen...yet have we really seen Tebow. Can you base your opinion on what you've seen or are you just taking the talking heads word for it?

I don't want to take the chance that I believe some dude that said that Aaron Rogers was going to bomb and Ryan Leaf was going to be a star. I want to see for myself and I would hope that our new coaching staff would want the same.

The old adage he gives us the best chance to win gets rather stale when all you do is lose.

I get that YOU want to see...but do you really think it matters to the coaches/FO what YOU think or if YOU get to see him on the field so that YOU can make your analysis of his play?

[Dzone]

Fox will be crowned a genius when he gets us into the playoffs with half the opening day roster on the IR. Crown his ass!

[BroncoJoe]

I get that YOU want to see...but do you really think it matters to the coaches/FO what YOU think or if YOU get to see him on the field so that YOU can make your analysis of his play?

And we get that YOU don't.

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[Ravage!!!]

And we get that YOU don't.

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I don't what? I don't want to see Tebow play? I've said all along that I want Tebow to play over Orton. I have a VERY deep distaste for Orton's play. I would VERY much enjoy Tebow to play in Orton's place, even for the sake of entertainment purposes.

But that doesn't mean I think the coaches believe they have to put Tebow on the field so that you and I can make judgments. We don't decide who gets drafted, who gets cut, or who stays. I don't think the coaches and FO cares if WE get a chance to "see what we have in Tebow" since WE don't have a say in what happens with him, either way.

So WE may want to see Tebow on the field so WE can see what WE (this is a discussion in itself) have. But the truth is, it doesn't matter one single bit what WE see even if he plays.

[BroncoJoe]

I don't what? I don't want to see Tebow play? I've said all along that I want Tebow to play over Orton. I have a VERY deep distaste for Orton's play. I would VERY much enjoy Tebow to play in Orton's place, even for the sake of entertainment purposes.

But that doesn't mean I think the coaches believe they have to put Tebow on the field so that you and I can make judgments. We don't decide who gets drafted, who gets cut, or who stays. I don't think the coaches and FO cares if WE get a chance to "see what we have in Tebow" since WE don't have a say in what happens with him, either way.

So WE may want to see Tebow on the field so WE can see what WE (this is a discussion in itself) have. But the truth is, it doesn't matter one single bit what WE see even if he plays.

Oh. Well, then nevermind.

:)

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