Lloyd and Moreno Back at Practice

[LTC Pain]

Per Rotoworld Sports:

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/213761/lloyd-and-moreno-return-to-broncos-practice

[Slick]

Yay Lloyd. Moreno, not so much.

[GEM]

Slick I just said the same thing when I read the thread title!! :laugh:

They best not just hand the starting job back to Moreno as the 1st head of the 2 headed monster. Freaking McGahee looked like a monster in comparison.

[turftoad]

Slick I just said the same thing when I read the thread title!! :laugh:

They best not just hand the starting job back to Moreno as the 1st head of the 2 headed monster. Freaking McGahee looked like a monster in comparison.

No, no, no...... my fantasy team needs Moreno to get a bunch of touch's.


Don't ask me why I drafted him. :confused: Oh well, he's my 3rd or 4th back anyway.

[dogfish]

No, no, no...... my fantasy team needs Moreno to get a bunch of touch's.


Don't ask me why I drafted him. :confused: Oh well, he's my 3rd or 4th back anyway.

if you drafted the gimp and didn't cover your ass by getting mcgahee as well, you deserve to lose. . . .



:D :welcome:

[BroncoStud]

Slick I just said the same thing when I read the thread title!! :laugh:

They best not just hand the starting job back to Moreno as the 1st head of the 2 headed monster. Freaking McGahee looked like a monster in comparison.

As in 2-headed monster, you mean something like this...?

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__46/ept_sports_nba_experts-12032869-1267134601.jpg?ymJSIvCDbjuGgTbN

[Clipworthy]

Moreno's back, our victory is at last ensured

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I just read that Dumervil and DJ WIlliams are also back at practice. Having Doom back is great news. I also read that we re-signed JJ to the PS and cut Goodwin to do it. Good news for those who liked JJ.

[Spiritguy]

I read that too. Good that all 4 are back. now where the heck is Champ?


Linebacker D.J. Williams, defensive end Elvis Dumervil, running back Knowshon Moreno and wide receiver Brandon Lloyd all were on the field this morning for the start of the Broncos' first practice of the week.

found here (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18945133?source=rss)

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Broncos got the good injury news they had been hoping for this week, as four starters were cleared to return to practice.

Linebacker D.J. Williams, defensive end Elvis Dumervil, running back Knowshon Moreno and wide receiver Brandon Lloyd​ all were on the field this morning for the start of the Broncos' first practice of the week.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18945133

[MileHighCrew]

any news on Bey Bey?

[Lancane]

any news on Bey Bey?

No worries, he'll brake something else so he doesn't have to get on the field against the big mean pro football players - easiest way to become a millionaire...sign a multi-million dollar contract and get hurt, thus never having to earn the money you received!

;)

[Lancane]

Yay Lloyd. Moreno, not so much.

I hate to say this...but people need to quit blaming Moreno and start blaming the inept coaching staff. McGahee had an alright game against one of the worst defensive lines in this league, the week before he was crushed every time he touched the ball. The problem isn't the running backs, either one of them...it's the fact that the offensive line is being ran like it's High School football experiment, we can not even figure out if we want to use a man or zone scheme, and because it's always changing a lot of times the holes that should be there are not or we have lineman missing their blocks because the whole damn thing is F'n confusing. McGahee is a better back in a power blocking scheme, while Moreno is worthless unless in a zone, it's the coaches and what they're coaching that's hurting this team.

[Joel]

I hate to say this...but people need to quit blaming Moreno and start blaming the inept coaching staff. McGahee had an alright game against one of the worst defensive lines in this league, the week before he was crushed every time he touched the ball. The problem isn't the running backs, either one of them...it's the fact that the offensive line is being ran like it's High School football experiment, we can not even figure out if we want to use a man or zone scheme, and because it's always changing a lot of times the holes that should be there are not or we have lineman missing their blocks because the whole damn thing is F'n confusing. McGahee is a better back in a power blocking scheme, while Moreno is worthless unless in a zone, it's the coaches and what they're coaching that's hurting this team.
Note the last line in the Broncos section at the first link:

Moreno would return to a committee attack with Willis McGahee, who's managed a weak 3.25 YPC average through two games.
Just over three yards per carry is not what I want from my starting back. I know that's only two games, and a lot of it is the line, but in nine years McGahee's only been over 4 YPC in three seasons. Maybe Moreno's not the answer, but it's hard to believe McGahee is more than a goal line back with numbers like these:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGaWi00.htm (http://http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGaWi00.htm)

I'm just glad to see most of our injured starters back on the field, and will be even happier when Champ (among others) joins them.

[Dzone]

Moreno wont make it through 2 full quarters without blowing out a leg muscle. Dude has no durability whatsoever.
If he was a beer delivery man, he would be on workmans comp after the first week on the job. He would destroy himself lifting a case of Old Milwaukee.

[Dzone]

Lance Ball is the best back on the team. He will be starting soon.

[Lancane]

Note the last line in the Broncos section at the first link:

Just over three yards per carry is not what I want from my starting back. I know that's only two games, and a lot of it is the line, but in nine years McGahee's over been over 4 YPC in three seasons. Maybe Moreno's not the answer, but it's hard to believe McGahee is more than a goal line back with numbers like these:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGaWi00.htm (http://http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGaWi00.htm)

I'm just glad to see most of our injured starters back on the field, and will be even happier when Champ (among others) joins them.

Willis McGahee is not a feature back, but I wonder at times if Moreno can be, especially in a system that uses a scheme that really doesn't utilize his strengths and that was an issue I had when we drafted him, that he really could only succeed in a zone blocking based offense which we are not, at least not at this time - under Shanahan, I think Moreno would be another Clinton Portis, but in an offense that utilizes both blocking schemes and seems better suited for the power, then someone like Wells, Gore or Stewart would be better options as a featured tailback in rotation with McGahee.

[Joel]

Willis McGahee is not a feature back, but I wonder at times if Moreno can be, especially in a system that uses a scheme that really doesn't utilize his strengths and that was an issue I had when we drafted him, that he really could only succeed in a zone blocking based offense which we are not, at least not at this time - under Shanahan, I think Moreno would be another Clinton Portis, but in an offense that utilizes both blocking schemes and seems better suited for the power, then someone like Wells, Gore or Stewart would be better options as a featured tailback in rotation with McGahee.
He may well not be for this team at this time, which is too bad, 'cos I'm still sold on zone blocking but don't expect to see much of it from the Broncos henceforth. I wish I could see more of the games so I knew more about his pass blocking, 'cos he seems like a decent receiver, and those two things would go a long way toward convincing me he's our feature back. I think once we have reliably solid run blocking we'll see a lot less of his failed attempts at Barry Sanders impressions; when you have to make two guys miss before you even get the hand off it's a lot harder to be a straight ahead runner.

[dogfish]

Lance Ball is the best back on the team. He will be starting soon.

i see what you did there. . . .

[Lancane]

He may well not be for this team at this time, which is too bad, 'cos I'm still sold on zone blocking but don't expect to see much of it from the Broncos henceforth. I wish I could see more of the games so I knew more about his pass blocking, 'cos he seems like a decent receiver, and those two things would go a long way toward convincing me he's our feature back. I think once we have reliably solid run blocking we'll see a lot less of his failed attempts at Barry Sanders impressions; when you have to make two guys miss before you even get the hand off it's a lot harder to be a straight ahead runner.

And we also got to remember that right now we have the biggest offensive line we've had in what seems like forever. I know that Clady is an All-Pro and Pro-Bowl left tackle in the zone blocking scheme and has struggled in the man blocking scheme, but literally everyone else we have is better suited for a power scheme, or at least in my opinion. And that's not to mention that the teams that are the most successful with using versions of the base offense we do have also utilized more of the power then zone. I have to wonder also if the trouble with Beadles and Walton isn't so much their lack to play the positions but is more or less the same thing I've come to believe and that's that their utilizing too much of two vastly different schemes instead of going with one as the base and adding some minor parts of the zone.

[BroncoStud]

I don't think our line is THAT bad. I think that Orton's horrible immobility makes them seem a lot worse than they are.

A lot of those holding calls, the QB hurries, the sacks, and even the running game stems from the fact that Orton can't move the pocket AT ALL, and forces the OL to sustain blocks longer, which isn't working that well.

Put a mobile QB with pocket awareness in there, like we had in Cutler, and our offensive line is just fine.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think our line is THAT bad. I think that Orton's horrible immobility makes them seem a lot worse than they are.

A lot of those holding calls, the QB hurries, the sacks, and even the running game stems from the fact that Orton can't move the pocket AT ALL, and forces the OL to sustain blocks longer, which isn't working that well.

Put a mobile QB with pocket awareness in there, like we had in Cutler, and our offensive line is just fine.

Our offensive line isn't a problem. I wouldn't say that Orton can't move in the pocket at all. His problem is that he is inconsistent because he holds onto the ball to long at time. His fumble last week is prime example.

[cmc0605]

People blaming Moreno have not watched any of the games. Adrian Peterson could not run good for us right now. The o-line has not been good (especially in the Oakland game) and the lack of Orton's ability to threaten teams deep (and I'm not really an Orton hater) projects onto Moreno's ability to break into the secondary.

Remember when McD was around, and without Moreno we could not even get past the line of scrimmage. He is a good back.

[slim]

People blaming Moreno have not watched any of the games. Adrian Peterson could not run good for us right now. The o-line has not been good (especially in the Oakland game) and the lack of Orton's ability to threaten teams deep (and I'm not really an Orton hater) projects onto Moreno's ability to break into the secondary.

Remember when McD was around, and without Moreno we could not even get past the line of scrimmage. He is a good back.

Well, McGahee just dropped 101. So I guess maybe he is better than Peterson?

[TXBRONC]

People blaming Moreno have not watched any of the games. Adrian Peterson could not run good for us right now. The o-line has not been good (especially in the Oakland game) and the lack of Orton's ability to threaten teams deep (and I'm not really an Orton hater) projects onto Moreno's ability to break into the secondary.

Remember when McD was around, and without Moreno we could not even get past the line of scrimmage. He is a good back.

No Peterson would shredding our defense. Moreno continues to struggle to find the hole and even when he does he doesn't exploded through it.

[Ravage!!!]

Well, McGahee just dropped 101. So I guess maybe he is better than Peterson?

Exactly. Moreno has how many 100 yrd games since being drafted? McGahee gets a start ahead of Moreno, and what happens? Coincidence? Hardly. Moreno just can not find the holes, and is Slooooooow. Its hard to get 100 yrds when you aren't fast enough to get past anyone.

[Dzone]

Our O Line is going to take it to the Titans. Mcgahhee and Ball are going to have a field day

[broncofaninfla]

Moreno is a third down back at best. Willis and Lance would be a better 1-2 punch at this point. The OL needs to play better too, I'll agree with that but Moreno is no where close to being the back Denver drafted him to be. I look forward to him being a "former" Bronco soon.

[TXBRONC]

Moreno is a third down back at best. Willis and Lance would be a better 1-2 punch at this point. The OL needs to play better too, I'll agree with that but Moreno is no where close to being the back Denver drafted him to be. I look forward to him being a "former" Bronco soon.

It appears you've been right about him for quite awhile. :tsk:

[GEM]

As in 2-headed monster, you mean something like this...?

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__46/ept_sports_nba_experts-12032869-1267134601.jpg?ymJSIvCDbjuGgTbN

I loved those guys!!! :lol:

[GEM]

Note the last line in the Broncos section at the first link:

Just over three yards per carry is not what I want from my starting back. I know that's only two games, and a lot of it is the line, but in nine years McGahee's only been over 4 YPC in three seasons. Maybe Moreno's not the answer, but it's hard to believe McGahee is more than a goal line back with numbers like these:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGaWi00.htm (http://http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGaWi00.htm)

I'm just glad to see most of our injured starters back on the field, and will be even happier when Champ (among others) joins them.


So both of our backs suck. :lol: That goal line back looked a million times better than Moreno. It's not a maybe if Moreno sucks, it's a given.

[GEM]

People blaming Moreno have not watched any of the games. Adrian Peterson could not run good for us right now. The o-line has not been good (especially in the Oakland game) and the lack of Orton's ability to threaten teams deep (and I'm not really an Orton hater) projects onto Moreno's ability to break into the secondary.

Remember when McD was around, and without Moreno we could not even get past the line of scrimmage. He is a good back.

I watch every single game and Moreno sucks. Moreno can't even break the line of scrimmage and it's not all on the line. Dude likes to dance, step back but he's too afraid to hit the damn hole. He doesn't understand one cut and run. He's too fragile to take on an DT and he can't get to a LB.

[Joel]

Well, McGahee just dropped 101. So I guess maybe he is better than Peterson?
If Petersen had 101 yds on 28 carries most people would assume he was sick. Having a lead (most of which was built through the air) will raise a backs carries, but doesn't validate his performance. It's hard to believe a guy an inch taller and 35 POUNDS HEAVIER than Moreno is faster. I'm glad Moreno's back and cautiously optimistic that he'll perform well with decent blocking, but if he's not the answer I have to hope Ball or Johnson is, because McGahee isn't.

So both of our backs suck. :lol: That goal line back looked a million times better than Moreno. It's not a maybe if Moreno sucks, it's a given.
If your last statement is true then, yes, your first is also. Durability and dancing are valid concerns with Moreno, but I'm not convinced they don't both have a lot to do with how often he gets hit in the backfield. It may not happen every down, but often enough that HIS concerns about it are also valid; he can't know in advance when he'll have to juke somebody before he even gets the ball. Meanwhile, if durability and dancing are legitimate complaints against Moreno, speed and elusiveness are equally so against McGahee. I'm very impressed our D stopped Cincy after we went three and out on each of our last three drives (most of which were McGahee runs better reflected by his 3.6 average yards than by his 101 total yards) but that's a far better reward than the offense deserves for putting them in that position.

[Dzone]

Moreno and D Thomas must have the same genetics. Too brittle to play football.

[Northman]

So both of our backs suck. :lol: That goal line back looked a million times better than Moreno. It's not a maybe if Moreno sucks, it's a given.

See, i dont even know if its about Moreno sucking. Its just that he isnt learning how to utilize his line and take his lanes. For whatever reason he seems to think he is Barry Sanders which he is clearly not. He needs to understand that even if he isnt breaking 20-30 yd runs that he needs to get in his lane and get as much as he can. The difference between a 3rd and 2 and 3rd and 3 is way different than a 3rd and 8 or 3rd and 12. Every yard counts whether his stats are pretty or not. But its easy to say he hasnt lived up to his billng as a 12th overall pick.

[Lancane]

I watch every single game and Moreno sucks. Moreno can't even break the line of scrimmage and it's not all on the line. Dude likes to dance, step back but he's too afraid to hit the damn hole. He doesn't understand one cut and run. He's too fragile to take on an DT and he can't get to a LB.

Actually Gem, the blame falls in many places, and I'd be lying if I didn't think Moreno had some faults, nor do I put all the blame on the offensive line...as I've stated already it's the scheme we're utilizing on the line, it's neither power which the Broncos are better suited for nor the zone which is so well beloved. The other day I think you were talking about the amount of penalties, or someone else was. The offensive line is struggling and the penalties are a sign of that, it's not because lack of talent, at least I don't think so. Offensive lineman only hold defenders when they're either A) beat and it's the only way to protect the quarterback or the ball, B) struggle to maintain blocks because they are out of place due to the system or scheme, C) pissed because they've got a defender who's holding and they retaliate or D) they're flat out exhausted and tired, with that being the only way to maintain the block. If you watch the previous two games, you see the issues, that are plaguing the Broncos' offensive line and all four reasons have come into play. How many times have we seen Moreno, Ball or McGahee run into their own guys because the blocking was questionable?

Moreno might not be the most patient back, he may try to hard to make things happen, but the lack of holes or solid blocking is far more of a problem. We've seen Moreno hit a hole and get five, ten or fifteen yards, so how people can say it's him? That's ludicrous because he's already shown he can do it, at times he makes a mistake and tries to make shit happen...but most of the time the problem is that the lanes shut down and there is nothing he can do, no matter what some wish to believe. The reason that Moreno succeeds in the zone far better then in a man blocking scheme is because the zone creates larger lanes for a tailback to exploit, whereas the man the hole is temporary or is shifting and the back is left up to making the choice of what hole to hit before it closes down and usually has to bruise their way for the yards they get. I know people want to sit there and say "Well look at McGahee", then I want to sit there and say "Yeah, look he ran for a measly 101 yards against the worst defensive line in the league missing their best defensive lineman"!

;)

[dogfish]

I know people want to sit there and say "Well look at McGahee", then I want to sit there and say "Yeah, look he ran for a measly 101 yards against the worst defensive line in the league missing their best defensive lineman"!

;)

mcgahee hasn't run against the denver line this year, cane-- at least not outside of practice. . . . ;)

[GEM]

If Petersen had 101 yds on 28 carries most people would assume he was sick. Having a lead (most of which was built through the air) will raise a backs carries, but doesn't validate his performance. It's hard to believe a guy an inch taller and 35 POUNDS HEAVIER than Moreno is faster. I'm glad Moreno's back and cautiously optimistic that he'll perform well with decent blocking, but if he's not the answer I have to hope Ball or Johnson is, because McGahee isn't.

If your last statement is true then, yes, your first is also. Durability and dancing are valid concerns with Moreno, but I'm not convinced they don't both have a lot to do with how often he gets hit in the backfield. It may not happen every down, but often enough that HIS concerns about it are also valid; he can't know in advance when he'll have to juke somebody before he even gets the ball. Meanwhile, if durability and dancing are legitimate complaints against Moreno, speed and elusiveness are equally so against McGahee. I'm very impressed our D stopped Cincy after we went three and out on each of our last three drives (most of which were McGahee runs better reflected by his 3.6 average yards than by his 101 total yards) but that's a far better reward than the offense deserves for putting them in that position.

I didn't see McGahee dancing on Sunday. Moreno doesn't juke. That's the problem. He doesn't have any moves, he lacks vision of holes to go through and he dances behind the line so that can't be blamed on the line.

You say tomato, I say tomoto. You say there's a chance Moreno could be good and I say I don't care what line you put him behind, he's just not a good back. :shrugs:

[GEM]

Actually Gem, the blame falls in many places, and I'd be lying if I didn't think Moreno had some faults, nor do I put all the blame on the offensive line...as I've stated already it's the scheme we're utilizing on the line, it's neither power which the Broncos are better suited for nor the zone which is so well beloved. The other day I think you were talking about the amount of penalties, or someone else was. The offensive line is struggling and the penalties are a sign of that, it's not because lack of talent, at least I don't think so. Offensive lineman only hold defenders when they're either A) beat and it's the only way to protect the quarterback or the ball, B) struggle to maintain blocks because they are out of place due to the system or scheme, C) pissed because they've got a defender who's holding and they retaliate or D) they're flat out exhausted and tired, with that being the only way to maintain the block. If you watch the previous two games, you see the issues, that are plaguing the Broncos' offensive line and all four reasons have come into play. How many times have we seen Moreno, Ball or McGahee run into their own guys because the blocking was questionable?

Moreno might not be the most patient back, he may try to hard to make things happen, but the lack of holes or solid blocking is far more of a problem. We've seen Moreno hit a hole and get five, ten or fifteen yards, so how people can say it's him? That's ludicrous because he's already shown he can do it, at times he makes a mistake and tries to make shit happen...but most of the time the problem is that the lanes shut down and there is nothing he can do, no matter what some wish to believe. The reason that Moreno succeeds in the zone far better then in a man blocking scheme is because the zone creates larger lanes for a tailback to exploit, whereas the man the hole is temporary or is shifting and the back is left up to making the choice of what hole to hit before it closes down and usually has to bruise their way for the yards they get. I know people want to sit there and say "Well look at McGahee", then I want to sit there and say "Yeah, look he ran for a measly 101 yards against the worst defensive line in the league missing their best defensive lineman"!

;)

I watch the line, I see holes and I see Moreno dance behind them. Instead of bursting the hole, however short amount of time it's open, they are there. Unfortunately for Moreno that was shown by McGahee. There are holes, you have to have vision to see them. I don't think Moreno has that vision. Honestly, by watching him, he appears to close his eyes when he gets the ball because he hits the back of his lineman more than he hits any holes they create.

[Lancane]

I watch the line, I see holes and I see Moreno dance behind them. Instead of bursting the hole, however short amount of time it's open, they are there. Unfortunately for Moreno that was shown by McGahee. There are holes, you have to have vision to see them. I don't think Moreno has that vision. Honestly, by watching him, he appears to close his eyes when he gets the ball because he hits the back of his lineman more than he hits any holes they create.

Gem, I've watched the line closely as well and I see the lanes close down too quickly because of awful scheming by the coaching staff. I completely agree that Moreno lacks good vision when it comes to hitting the hole, when he does he's rather successful, when he prances behind the line trying to make things happen like he's still in college it turns out rather horrid. I have seen a lot of lanes just shut because the blocker can not maintain his assignment, which leaves a back like Moreno to make things happen. And again someone wants to reference McGahee this past week against one of the worst defensive fronts in the NFL, and one that I might add which eventually started to give us trouble in the end and nearly helped their team win. The week before, McGahee was horrendous, the lanes were closing too fast and he didn't get squat. People seem to forget that Moreno has busted out some big runs over the past few years even with horrid coaching and bad playcalling.

[BroncoJoe]

Stack the box, dare the QB to beat you spells BIG problems for the Broncos.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[dogfish]

can't we all just agree that the line sucks AND the backs suck?

:noidea:


the two ideas aren't at all mutually exclusive, ya know. . . .

[Joel]

I didn't see McGahee dancing on Sunday. Moreno doesn't juke. That's the problem. He doesn't have any moves, he lacks vision of holes to go through and he dances behind the line so that can't be blamed on the line.

You say tomato, I say tomoto. You say there's a chance Moreno could be good and I say I don't care what line you put him behind, he's just not a good back. :shrugs:
You'll never see McGahee dance, which helps explain why he averaged 3.6 YPC in his million times better performance last Sunday. Maybe we're both correct in our doubts and misguided in our faith (though I'm not sold on Moreno, just not ready to write him off.) I can't fault Moreno if he feels a little desperate behind our line, but that's no guarantee he'd magically become a cut and go runner, let alone a successful one, behind solid blocking. I do know that neither he nor anyone will succeed behind erratic blocking, and that McGahee has the same career rushing average over eight years (and three teams) that Moreno has after three; if that's not good enough from Knowshon, it's not good enough from Willis.

can't we all just agree that the line sucks AND the backs suck?

:noidea:


the two ideas aren't at all mutually exclusive, ya know. . . .
A very real and dire possibility; unfortunately, it's hard to be sure if it's one, the other or both, because the line and backs ARE mutually dependent. Looking at the passing game (which is so productive that complaints about our rushers usually take a back seat to complaints about our passers) can help, but pass blocking isn't run blocking so that's only marginally useful.

I keep thinking of when The Hidden Game of Football compared a team with high draft picks to the little Dutch boy with the leaky dike, worrying if he'll run out of fingers before he runs out of holes.... :(

[Lancane]

can't we all just agree that the line sucks AND the backs suck?

:noidea:


the two ideas aren't at all mutually exclusive, ya know. . . .

No, because it's not the offensive line or the running backs that suck, it's the coaching staff...

What's the first thing you do as a new coach? You instill your philosophy, and then you coordinate and fix the trenches based on your philosophy. If your an offensive juggernaut then you re-enforce the offensive line, if you run a 'Bend Don't Break' philosophy defensively then you focus on pass rushing capable lineman and so on. We didn't fix the trenches because we still have issues, not only in lack of talent possibly, but also from the base scheme we use in the system we run. We're so depleted on both lines by what the staff has done that it makes the athletes look to be at fault.

[GEM]

Ugh! All of this leaves me sucking my thumb crying for shanny and just a bad defense instead of bad on every front.

[BroncoStud]

I much prefer very good offense and horrible defense to bad offense and horrible defense.

Shanahan's 2008 Denver Broncos would kick the living shit out of John Fox's 2011 Denver Broncos.