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BIG303
12-12-2008, 05:29 PM
Dear respected sportsmen of Denver, It has been on my mind to write an email regarding the Denver Broncos of this year. There are a few simple changes that need to be made for Denver to be a Super Bowl caliber team so bear with me. First of all the offense needs to be left completely alone with the exception of drafting the fastest receiver available, and the fastest RB available. We have two good power back with Hillis and Torrain, we have a speed back with Anthony "quick six" Alridge. The need for a pure speed receiver lies in the fact that Eddie Royal is proving to be too good of a receiver to have returning kicks. We do not need anymore cheap injuries to our star players. That is it for the offense. Find a speed back to complement Hillis/Torrain and let them be. Now moving onto the defense. First of all a lot of players need to be let go. Niko Koutivides goes, Nate Webster goes, Marlon Mcree goes, Marquand Manuel goes, Ekuban goes, Kenny Peterson goes, Nic Clemons, Josh Shaw, Englebrennar, basically every Dlineman and LB. The exceptions being Dumervil, Robertson, Thomas, Moss, DJ Williams, Wesely Woodyard, Winborn, Boss Bailey, and Spencer Larsen. Here is how to solve the LB position. Wesley Woodyard needs to be the middle linebacker. He provides us with fiery leadership, and sure tackiling that we need at the MIKE position, he is also cheaper right now than Koutivides or Nate Webster, and he is a better player. Shanahan has already stated that when DJ comes back Woodyard will still see playing time. He plays with a mean streak, and just flat out makes plays. Leave DJ at WILL, then let Winborn and Boss Bailey compete for the SAM position. He has that in your face attitude that we have missed since Al Wilson. Then you have Spencer Larsen backing him up with Winborn/Boss backing up DJ and the winner of the battle at the SAM position. This lets also cut the salary of Nate Webster, and Niko Koutivides (the highest paid special teamer in the NFL). Moving onto the Dline, I think we need to take a few of Jim Bates' principles to this defense. We need to get bigger up the middle in order to keep the 330lb guards off of Woodyard and DJ. So we keep DRob, Marcus Thomas, and Carlton Powell, but we need to try and make a Marcus Stroud type trade (a 3rd or 4th rounder) for a Stroud or Kris Jenkins or player like that. We just need to flat out get bigger up front. This means we drop Ekuban, Kenny Peterson, Englebrennar, and any other Dlineman that I have not previously mentioned. Here is the long shot, we need to make a run a Julius Peppers. If we can get a player like Peppers, with Jarvis Moss, Dumervil, and draft another DE to go along with the hopefully added beef up the middle I think our run defense and pass defense will be drastically improved. Moving onto the secondary, Josh Barrett needs to remain the starter. I have wanted him to start all year. At 6'2 and 230lbs he ran a 4.36 in the 40 andis a sure tackler. Then for our first round draft pick we draft the safety out of USC Taylor Mays who is also around 220 and runs a sub 4.4 in the 40. This gives us basically two extra LBs with WR speed at safety. Add in Champ and Dre as your starting corners, and the depth we now have with Josh Bell, Jack Williams, and Karl Paymah and we have some young guys ready to follow in the veterans footsteps. To sum it all up we need to instill Woodyard as the MIKE this year, as soon as DJ comes back, and let him unleash the animal in him that he plays with, and bring that fire to the defense we have been missing since Al Wilson. Then DJ can roam and make plays. We need to add some serious size and attitude at the DT position, and make a run a Julius Peppers. Draft Taylor Mays, and start Josh Barrett. I also think we should try and wrestle away Ron Rivera away fromt the Chargers (he is their LB coach) because he was the mastermind of the Bears defense when they went to the Super Bowl. So you are then looking at a starting defense of Peppers, Robertson, Thomas, Dumervil on the line, DJ at WIll, Woodyard at Mike, Boss or Winborn at SAM, Champ and Dre at corners, and Barrett and Mays at safety. That is a young defense, with size, speed, and attitude, and if they had a Dcoordinator that made the scheme easy and let his players play (unlike Slowik is this year and bates did last year) they could be a top defense. If the getting Peppers is a longshot or impossible start Jarvis Moss, but getting bigger at DT up the middle, getting Woodyard at MIKE I think will really help, and lets keep our fingers crossed we can cut all those players and make enough cap room for Julius Peppers. I am anxious to hear your thoughts on this topic.

bcbronc
12-12-2008, 05:31 PM
umm, yeah, that mass of letters isn't getting read.

NameUsedBefore
12-12-2008, 05:31 PM
These goggles do nothing!

bcbronc
12-12-2008, 05:32 PM
These goggles do nothing!

you just have to relax your eyes and you'll see a pirate ship!

Mike
12-12-2008, 05:33 PM
you just have to relax your eyes and you'll see a pirate ship!

Welcome to the board, Big303. You put in a lot of effort. Splitting it up into paragraphs would probably help out though.

Fan in Exile
12-12-2008, 05:52 PM
I did read it, although I've got a lot of free time. I just don't see woodyard as a MIKE. I think we should stick him at SS basically playing as our 8th in the box so we can stop the run.

Have Barret start at FS. Then we've got at least four games to evaluate them and see where they're going.

Then if that pans out we can draft a stud MLB in the first and invest more in our D-line.

I wouldn't mind getting Peppers but I'm nervous about getting a d-linemen who has up and down years. Sure he's worth the money this year but what happens when he gets paid. I would be happy about it as long as we don't over pay and still draft some.

I wouldn't mind it if our 2009 team were:

Moss
Robertson
Thomas
Draft pick

D.J.
Draft Pick
Bailey/Winborn

Barret
Woodyard

Bailey
Bly

That's assuming Wodyard and Barret pan out and that Moss steps up.



Oh yeah and that we fire Bob Slowick, that's the gas that makes this engine run.

yardog
12-12-2008, 05:52 PM
Welcome.

BroncoJoe
12-12-2008, 05:54 PM
If you had posted your original thoughts like this, it would get read. Just an FYI.


Dear respected sportsmen of Denver, It has been on my mind to write an email regarding the Denver Broncos of this year. There are a few simple changes that need to be made for Denver to be a Super Bowl caliber team so bear with me.

First of all the offense needs to be left completely alone with the exception of drafting the fastest receiver available, and the fastest RB available. We have two good power back with Hillis and Torrain, we have a speed back with Anthony "quick six" Alridge. The need for a pure speed receiver lies in the fact that Eddie Royal is proving to be too good of a receiver to have returning kicks. We do not need anymore cheap injuries to our star players. That is it for the offense. Find a speed back to complement Hillis/Torrain and let them be.

Now moving onto the defense. First of all a lot of players need to be let go. Niko Koutivides goes, Nate Webster goes, Marlon Mcree goes, Marquand Manuel goes, Ekuban goes, Kenny Peterson goes, Nic Clemons, Josh Shaw, Englebrennar, basically every Dlineman and LB. The exceptions being Dumervil, Robertson, Thomas, Moss, DJ Williams, Wesely Woodyard, Winborn, Boss Bailey, and Spencer Larsen.

Here is how to solve the LB position. Wesley Woodyard needs to be the middle linebacker. He provides us with fiery leadership, and sure tackiling that we need at the MIKE position, he is also cheaper right now than Koutivides or Nate Webster, and he is a better player. Shanahan has already stated that when DJ comes back Woodyard will still see playing time. He plays with a mean streak, and just flat out makes plays. Leave DJ at WILL, then let Winborn and Boss Bailey compete for the SAM position. He has that in your face attitude that we have missed since Al Wilson. Then you have Spencer Larsen backing him up with Winborn/Boss backing up DJ and the winner of the battle at the SAM position. This lets also cut the salary of Nate Webster, and Niko Koutivides (the highest paid special teamer in the NFL).

Moving onto the Dline, I think we need to take a few of Jim Bates' principles to this defense. We need to get bigger up the middle in order to keep the 330lb guards off of Woodyard and DJ. So we keep DRob, Marcus Thomas, and Carlton Powell, but we need to try and make a Marcus Stroud type trade (a 3rd or 4th rounder) for a Stroud or Kris Jenkins or player like that. We just need to flat out get bigger up front. This means we drop Ekuban, Kenny Peterson, Englebrennar, and any other Dlineman that I have not previously mentioned.

Here is the long shot, we need to make a run a Julius Peppers. If we can get a player like Peppers, with Jarvis Moss, Dumervil, and draft another DE to go along with the hopefully added beef up the middle I think our run defense and pass defense will be drastically improved.

Moving onto the secondary, Josh Barrett needs to remain the starter. I have wanted him to start all year. At 6'2 and 230lbs he ran a 4.36 in the 40 andis a sure tackler. Then for our first round draft pick we draft the safety out of USC Taylor Mays who is also around 220 and runs a sub 4.4 in the 40. This gives us basically two extra LBs with WR speed at safety. Add in Champ and Dre as your starting corners, and the depth we now have with Josh Bell, Jack Williams, and Karl Paymah and we have some young guys ready to follow in the veterans footsteps.

To sum it all up we need to instill Woodyard as the MIKE this year, as soon as DJ comes back, and let him unleash the animal in him that he plays with, and bring that fire to the defense we have been missing since Al Wilson. Then DJ can roam and make plays. We need to add some serious size and attitude at the DT position, and make a run a Julius Peppers. Draft Taylor Mays, and start Josh Barrett. I also think we should try and wrestle away Ron Rivera away fromt the Chargers (he is their LB coach) because he was the mastermind of the Bears defense when they went to the Super Bowl.

So you are then looking at a starting defense of Peppers, Robertson, Thomas, Dumervil on the line, DJ at WIll, Woodyard at Mike, Boss or Winborn at SAM, Champ and Dre at corners, and Barrett and Mays at safety. That is a young defense, with size, speed, and attitude, and if they had a Dcoordinator that made the scheme easy and let his players play (unlike Slowik is this year and bates did last year) they could be a top defense.

If the getting Peppers is a longshot or impossible start Jarvis Moss, but getting bigger at DT up the middle, getting Woodyard at MIKE I think will really help, and lets keep our fingers crossed we can cut all those players and make enough cap room for Julius Peppers. I am anxious to hear your thoughts on this topic.

horsepig
12-12-2008, 06:10 PM
Boy, you guys can be pretty snotty. Big makes some real good points although, he might be a little overboard here and there but give the guy some props for voicing his opinions, some of which I wholeheartedly agree with.

PatricktheDookie
12-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Yeah, cutting half our team is going to make our team play better...

BroncoJoe
12-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Boy, you guys can be pretty snotty. Big makes some real good points although, he might be a little overboard here and there but give the guy some props for voicing his opinions, some of which I wholeheartedly agree with.

As do most of us.

If we could read it.

Paragraphs are your friend. Use them.

tia.

dogfish
12-12-2008, 06:17 PM
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9565/enterkeyhg6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




:welcome::welcome:

underrated29
12-12-2008, 06:18 PM
We will not be getting peppers, no matter how hard we try. Unfortunately.

Also i dont think woodyard has the size/ mindest of playing Mike linebacker. He would get eaten alive there if you ask me.

Also keep in mind the broncos historically do not keep a lot of DTs on the roster. I know you said letting some go, but even then i only maybe see us getting 1, to replace drob when his knees give out. It looks like your scenario has us getting a couple.

But nice job, and welcome to the boards.

dogfish
12-12-2008, 06:21 PM
okay, i read joe's mercifully corrected version of your post, and most of it actually reflects a lot of the prevailing opinions around here. . .

i would say don't get your heart set on peppers, it's just a pipe dream. . . and rivera is san diego's DC. . .

dbwitadb719
12-12-2008, 06:37 PM
He made a lot of valid points. I think next year we need to try and establish a two back system withe Peyton Hillis and Ryan Torain, and assuming they can stay healthy we could have the backfield we need to take a some pressure of the shoulders of Jay Cutler. But i agree about the def. coordinator situation, and i think we need to try and draft a solid safety compliment our corners.

Slick
12-12-2008, 06:50 PM
Thanks Joe. :beer:

I agree with a lot of what you said Big303, with only a few exceptions.

1) I don't think a speed receiver does much in this offense. We rarely throw deep, and when we do, I think the guys we have can beat man coverage and go get the ball. I'm not against drafting another though.

2) I'd still like to see us pick up another workhorse back. I'd like to see Hillis stay as our X-Factor. Let him play wherever. He's shown us versatility. I'm not sold on Torian or any of the other guys. Hillis stands alone as far as a running threat on this team.

3) Peppers will cost a shitload. I don't see us making that big of a splash in FA.

BIG303
12-12-2008, 06:53 PM
I will NEVER understand certain groups of Bronco fans. Moving DJ back to a position he OPENLY said he didn't like does not sound like a good idea. He is one of the best OLBs in the game and you want to move him? Sorry but he may one of the best OLBs in the league but does not mean it translates into a good MIKE player, though I think he did an incredible job last year.

As far as Woodyard goes, I cannot believe that you guys are talking about putting him at safety, he is probably one of the top 3 tacklers on our team. He has the attitude and ability to be something special in the middle for the Broncos. Then yes you pick the better player out of Boss or Winborn at the SAM. If you think Woodyard was to small for the MIKE position then there is no way he would be able to make it against on the strong side.

This draft is also very weak as far as LBs, but strong in Safetys. So you draft Taylor Mays from USC and have him and Barrett back there. Your secondaris now probably the fastest and most likely one of the biggest secondaries in the NFL.

DLine wise Drob, Doom, Thomas, and Moss are the only players worth keeping. There was one thing I liked about Jim Bates, and that was he believed in being strong up the middle. I think our run defense would be so much better if we could bring out a couple 325lb guys at DT with Dumervil and Moss coming off the corners. I know we rotate Dlinemen, but we need some big guys up the middle. Look how the Ravens, Giants, Pats, have won their Super Bowls, they have dominated up front. SO we draft or sign a couple 320+ DTs to go along with our speed rushers from the outside.

And finally the reasons I purposed cutting Koutivides, Webster, Engleberger, Peterson, Ekuban, McCree, Manuel, Josh Shaw, Nic Clemons, Kenny Peterson are for one our young guys have shown they can play, and 2 we will have a pretty good amount of money to go after Peppers.

Slick
12-12-2008, 07:03 PM
I will NEVER understand certain groups of Bronco fans. Moving DJ back to a position he OPENLY said he didn't like does not sound like a good idea. He is one of the best OLBs in the game and you want to move him? Sorry but he may one of the best OLBs in the league but does not mean it translates into a good MIKE player, though I think he did an incredible job last year.

As far as Woodyard goes, I cannot believe that you guys are talking about putting him at safety, he is probably one of the top 3 tacklers on our team. He has the attitude and ability to be something special in the middle for the Broncos. Then yes you pick the better player out of Boss or Winborn at the SAM. If you think Woodyard was to small for the MIKE position then there is no way he would be able to make it against on the strong side.

This draft is also very weak as far as LBs, but strong in Safetys. So you draft Taylor Mays from USC and have him and Barrett back there. Your secondaris now probably the fastest and most likely one of the biggest secondaries in the NFL.

DLine wise Drob, Doom, Thomas, and Moss are the only players worth keeping. There was one thing I liked about Jim Bates, and that was he believed in being strong up the middle. I think our run defense would be so much better if we could bring out a couple 325lb guys at DT with Dumervil and Moss coming off the corners. I know we rotate Dlinemen, but we need some big guys up the middle. Look how the Ravens, Giants, Pats, have won their Super Bowls, they have dominated up front. SO we draft or sign a couple 320+ DTs to go along with our speed rushers from the outside.

And finally the reasons I purposed cutting Koutivides, Webster, Engleberger, Peterson, Ekuban, McCree, Manuel, Josh Shaw, Nic Clemons, Kenny Peterson are for one our young guys have shown they can play, and 2 we will have a pretty good amount of money to go after Peppers.

Posters that want DJ to move back to the middle are the minority. Some of us would like to see Woodyard finish the year at SS (If DJ stays healthy and they keep him at WLB) because of how bad the safety play has been. The mantra has been, "How could he be any worse?"

We just kick ideas around here on the forum. No one professes to know everything. If someone disagrees with you, don't take it personally.

Welcome. I hope you stick around. :beer:

BIG303
12-12-2008, 07:05 PM
Thanks Slick. I was not talking a speed receiver for deep routes, I am thinking of a speed receiver who if he gets a crease on a return he is gone. Royal is simply to valuable to our offense to be risking him getting hurt on a special teams play.

The reason I suggested a speed back also has to do with PR/KR, but more to do with following the Titans running game. We have Anthony "quick 6" Aldridge right now but I think we should pick up another one just incase he does not come back well after his inury.

Oline is one of the best in the NFL.

Dline needs to get bigger at the DT position

We need to get Ron Rivera away from the Chargers

Woodyard needs to be the MIKE so he can continue to make the plays he is capble of making, and a very god competition between Boss and Winborn will be brewing in training camp next year.

Vets need to be cut, and hopefully it will add up to us getting 6'7 275lb DE.

BIG303
12-12-2008, 07:10 PM
Just to clarify I was not talking about fans on this board, I talk to people all the time about the Broncos and they all say move DJ back to the middle. That would be a pretty dumb idea. As far as Woodyard being at SAM, he would have way more trouble there than he would at MIKE.

chanesaw
12-12-2008, 07:21 PM
Peterson stays.

I wouldn't make any future plans with Ryan Torain, he can't stay healthy.

gobroncsnv
12-12-2008, 07:54 PM
Yeah, cutting half our team is going to make our team play better...

We haven't tried cutting too many folks yet, but we certainly did improve by injury. We're playing our best d of the year with some 4th stringers, most of whom turned out better than the starter they replaced. ONLY exceptions to this I see are DJ and Champ.

Keep it coming, 303.

Hawgdriver
12-12-2008, 07:56 PM
I will NEVER understand certain groups of Bronco fans. Moving DJ back to a position he OPENLY said he didn't like does not sound like a good idea. He is one of the best OLBs in the game and you want to move him? Sorry but he may one of the best OLBs in the league but does not mean it translates into a good MIKE player, though I think he did an incredible job last year.

Does this argument apply to Woodyard as well?

Dreadnought
12-12-2008, 07:59 PM
A lot of good thought in there, and some good thoughts. I'm not sure Woodyard has the size for Mike, but the kid plays some honest to God football, and he needs to be on the field. I'm still in the minority, but he is playing like our best LBer as of now, and that includes DJ.

Paragraphs are good though - thanks, Joe :D

And welcome aboard! Some guys may have quibbled over structure, but you know your Broncos pretty well :beer:

WARHORSE
12-12-2008, 08:01 PM
I will NEVER understand certain groups of Bronco fans. Moving DJ back to a position he OPENLY said he didn't like does not sound like a good idea. He is one of the best OLBs in the game and you want to move him? Sorry but he may one of the best OLBs in the league but does not mean it translates into a good MIKE player, though I think he did an incredible job last year.

As far as Woodyard goes, I cannot believe that you guys are talking about putting him at safety, he is probably one of the top 3 tacklers on our team. He has the attitude and ability to be something special in the middle for the Broncos. Then yes you pick the better player out of Boss or Winborn at the SAM. If you think Woodyard was to small for the MIKE position then there is no way he would be able to make it against on the strong side.

This draft is also very weak as far as LBs, but strong in Safetys. So you draft Taylor Mays from USC and have him and Barrett back there. Your secondaris now probably the fastest and most likely one of the biggest secondaries in the NFL.

DLine wise Drob, Doom, Thomas, and Moss are the only players worth keeping. There was one thing I liked about Jim Bates, and that was he believed in being strong up the middle. I think our run defense would be so much better if we could bring out a couple 325lb guys at DT with Dumervil and Moss coming off the corners. I know we rotate Dlinemen, but we need some big guys up the middle. Look how the Ravens, Giants, Pats, have won their Super Bowls, they have dominated up front. SO we draft or sign a couple 320+ DTs to go along with our speed rushers from the outside.

And finally the reasons I purposed cutting Koutivides, Webster, Engleberger, Peterson, Ekuban, McCree, Manuel, Josh Shaw, Nic Clemons, Kenny Peterson are for one our young guys have shown they can play, and 2 we will have a pretty good amount of money to go after Peppers.


How you gonna draft Mays in the first round without a pick? BCUZ Peppers aint walkin out of there without a franchise tag slapped on one of them buttocks things hes carryin around. Look for Peppers to stay there.

There will be great LBers and safeties to be had in the first two rounds. Give up our first next year, and draft a Curry, or a Mauluga, or a Laurinitis, along with a Mays, Moore, etc, etc. Spend the later rounds on big fat, strong DTs with upside. CROWDER stays. Pump the weight pile and play DT. Woodyard is too small to play the middle. Draft a middle, Woody at WS and Williams at SLB.

gobroncsnv
12-12-2008, 08:04 PM
I think you've just printed the ticket to get DJ out of town, War.

WARHORSE
12-12-2008, 08:11 PM
I think you've just printed the ticket to get DJ out of town, War.


Nah. He just got paid. Its our way or the highway. Whatever is best for the team.

When we had him at SLB, WIlson and Gold.....our defense was a beast...even without the Dline. Woodyard is playing better than Gold did at WS, and a Aaron Curry would be UG -A- LY in the middle. We want head crushers.

DenverBronkHoes
12-12-2008, 08:31 PM
we can all play general manager... Unfortunately we have a disignated GM poster... His name is G_money... meet him, greet him, love him, respect him.....

solid point... i have alot of "buts" and "ifs"....

peppers is our DE in that one place we all call uh uhmmm... LA LA land....

more beef is no doubt... and i hate DJ at MIKE...

and i want also note that if my grandmother had a ....................

DenverBronkHoes
12-12-2008, 08:35 PM
any poster that:

A- thinks DJ should play middle
B- thinks woodyard should play middle

need to reads "linebacking for dummies"

Lonestar
12-12-2008, 08:45 PM
I did read it, although I've got a lot of free time. I just don't see woodyard as a MIKE. I think we should stick him at SS basically playing as our 8th in the box so we can stop the run.

Have Barret start at FS. Then we've got at least four games to evaluate them and see where they're going.

Then if that pans out we can draft a stud MLB in the first and invest more in our D-line.

I wouldn't mind getting Peppers but I'm nervous about getting a d-linemen who has up and down years. Sure he's worth the money this year but what happens when he gets paid. I would be happy about it as long as we don't over pay and still draft some.

I wouldn't mind it if our 2009 team were:

Moss
Robertson
Thomas
Draft pick

D.J.
Draft Pick
Bailey/Winborn

Barret
Woodyard

Bailey
Bly

That's assuming Wodyard and Barret pan out and that Moss steps up.



Oh yeah and that we fire Bob Slowick, that's the gas that makes this engine run.


I think we are not going to enter the FA market unless Pat OKs it earlier than last year.. And frankly had Robertson not been a steal I doubt we would have gotten him..

The safeties we picked up sucked so that has probably soured him even more so.. that was a total waste of about 4 mil between the two of them..

I'm afraid if the young turks are played and look great like we think they will that slowick job will be saved..

Other than that like like our thought on D next year.. Although I'd like another stud DT for Robertsons spot down the line.. Not sure how many more plays are in those knees..

MOtorboat
12-12-2008, 09:00 PM
Work on paragraph breaks, and I'll probably delve into what you're saying. Of course, I never really buy into the whole "this is what will fix this team," arguments.

gnomeflinger
12-12-2008, 09:16 PM
Welcome BIG. It's a fun forum here, and if I wasn't ADD I'd probably be able to read your post. However, props to you for all that effort you put into writing it. It's so long! :eek:

TXBRONC
12-12-2008, 09:18 PM
I'm in agreement with the others that Woodyard at the Mike position isn't a good idea. Your other thoughts are interesting but I don't think at this time that Denver will try and sign Peppers.

gobroncsnv
12-12-2008, 09:56 PM
Other than that like like our thought on D next year.. Although I'd like another stud DT for Robertsons spot down the line.. Not sure how many more plays are in those knees..

He's not good enough right now, from what I've seen. Never gets his name called during the game except for intros.

Lonestar
12-12-2008, 10:22 PM
He's not good enough right now, from what I've seen. Never gets his name called during the game except for intros.

I have tried to watch for him.. But up till last week when I got a NEW 37" LCD SONY the screen on my old 27" TV Had the top quarter missing which is great if your watching a wide screen DVD.

but when the top hash mark is not there well I miss have of the field..

But sometime NO having your named called means you were taking on a couple of guys and they made the play because they were free. Not sure that happened.. but I'm hoping so.

TXBRONC
12-12-2008, 10:25 PM
I will NEVER understand certain groups of Bronco fans. Moving DJ back to a position he OPENLY said he didn't like does not sound like a good idea. He is one of the best OLBs in the game and you want to move him? Sorry but he may one of the best OLBs in the league but does not mean it translates into a good MIKE player, though I think he did an incredible job last year.

This is simply not accurate. DJ never said he didn't like playing the Mike position. In fact he said he liked playing the Mike position and would have been happy to stay there.

Personally I disagree with those who think D.J. wouldn't have made a very good Mike linebacker. It was a new position for him but he still did very well and with time he would have only gotten better in my opinion.

Ah "But Shanahan moved him back to the weak side therefore they thought he stunk at the Mike position." Not so they moved him back because that was his natural position and what he was best at. As I said it's not that he wouldn't have continued to improve at the Mike position rather the move came because he was already an excellent Wil linebacker.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/08/williams-likes-being-caught-in-the-middle/

Williams likes being caught in the middle
Denver linebacker 'very comfortable' with new position

By Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published December 8, 2007 at 12:45 a.m.

Now that D.J. Williams has had a few months to get accustomed to playing middle linebacker, he'd like to stay there for the long haul.

"I'm very comfortable in the middle and, if it was up to me, I'd play it for the rest of my career," the Broncos' fourth-year player said Friday.

Williams played the other two outside linebacker spots for Denver before changing again this past offseason.

And despite some rough patches that can be expected while getting adjusted to a new position, and a recent change in philosophy to more of an eight- man front that shifted his responsibilities yet again, he has settled into the middle pretty well.

With 109 tackles, Williams is tied for third in the NFL with Houston's DeMeco Ryans, trailing only San Francisco's Patrick Willis (128) and Washington's London Fletcher (112).

And, in the past two games, Williams has had two of his top three tackle games this season, including 13 solo stops and three assists Sunday against Oakland.

"He's got a better grasp now of what he has to do to be successful at the position, and he's had a lot of production," assistant head coach/defense Jim Bates said. "Like everyone on our team, he's had his flaws. I've had mine. . . . But he's playing with more confidence."

Williams said the difference in his game since the beginning of the season can be gauged by comparing his second performance against the Raiders with the previous one Sept. 16.

He appears more decisive in his reads, is hitting the proper gaps quicker and is more comfortable as a leader making the defensive calls.

Eight of Williams' tackles Sunday netted zero yards or lost yardage. Six of his 11 stops against Chicago on Nov. 25 came after gains of 3 yards or fewer.

"When we've been successful versus the run as a group, it's because we're playing fast and attacking the line of scrimmage," linebackers coach Joe Baker said. "And I'd say the same holds true for D.J."

But as the central figure in a defense that has struggled, particularly against the run, Williams has received additional scrutiny, even though he often has had to shed free blockers.

Williams likens the criticism to playing quarterback, where taking the heat also is expected.

It has led to some scuttlebutt outside the team that the Broncos might be better served with Williams' athleticism back at outside linebacker in the future.

Broncos coaches don't appear to have closed the door on that possibility, but the notion isn't on the front burner.

Asked whether middle linebacker is Williams' permanent home, Bates said, "It should be," adding that he expects continued improvement during the final four games, beginning Sunday at home against Kansas City.

Baker responded, "I think so," to the same question, adding that plans change yearly, but his opinion of Williams' skills being "what you're looking for in that position" hasn't changed.

Head coach Mike Shanahan described Williams' progress as "getting better and better, where he feels comfortable in there."

"If you look at it, I'm tied for first in the AFC in tackles and I am a four-year player, but this is the first time I'm playing this position," Williams said. "And just what I've accomplished thus far this year with as little experience that I have, who knows how far I can go? Hopefully, they'll keep me in the middle; if not, I'll play weak-side linebacker. I just hate strong side. You can put that in the paper. I hate it. I don't want to play strong side for nobody. But I played weak side earlier in my career. I'd be happy to do it."

It was during Williams' rookie season in 2004 at weak-side linebacker that his athleticism, size and physicality first made an impact. His versatility prompted the switch to the strong side during the past two seasons.

And all those qualities together precipitated his move to the middle when Al Wilson was released in March because of neck issues.

Williams said playing the middle has been easier on him physically this season because he's not taking on as many fullback and H-back leads as in previous years.

He also likes being in the middle of the action on every play, including passing downs, when he was on the sideline last season.

The biggest work in progress is "playing in zones in pass coverage. I'm not used to that," he said, but added, "Everything else, I think I'm moving at a steady pace."

Nate Webster, a former middle linebacker and now Williams' sidekick on the strong side, believes his partner's instincts have kicked in, and it's showing.

"Me and him used to tease each other a quarter of the way into the season about the way he used to tackle. He'd wrap up guys," Webster said. "Now he's headhunting, which is what a middle linebacker should be - the hard hitter of the defense."

TXBRONC
12-12-2008, 10:28 PM
Posters that want DJ to move back to the middle are the minority. Some of us would like to see Woodyard finish the year at SS (If DJ stays healthy and they keep him at WLB) because of how bad the safety play has been. The mantra has been, "How could he be any worse?"

We just kick ideas around here on the forum. No one professes to know everything. If someone disagrees with you, don't take it personally.

Welcome. I hope you stick around. :beer:

I wouldn't have problem with D.J. being moved back to the middle, however I'm also happy with him right where he is at.

Lonestar
12-12-2008, 10:34 PM
good find TX, But I would think that them going after Niko and keeping him on the WLB would indicate that even though he was good and getting better they did not think he is good enough to do it..

I have heard while a superb athlete he is not the sharpest arrow in the quiver and was having a hard time calling plays.

Whether that is true or not I do not have a clue..

slim
12-12-2008, 10:35 PM
Asshats...he put alot of thought into his post and made some good points.

303, give these jerk offs the middle finger and keep posting.

TXBRONC
12-12-2008, 10:50 PM
good find TX, But I would think that them going after Niko and keeping him on the WLB would indicate that even though he was good and getting better they did not think he is good enough to do it..

I have heard while a superb athlete he is not the sharpest arrow in the quiver and was having a hard time calling plays.

Whether that is true or not I do not have a clue..

I don't think that at all. I think Shanahan and his staff sat down and evaluated the situation and thought while D.J. good at the Mike position his best position is the weakside and that they wanted to optimize his abilities.

I heard fans like yourself say that D.J. is to damn stupid to play the Mike just because Niko was brought in. I don't think that's the case I think what they saw was a linebacker who could be very good in the middle or great on the weakside.

weazel
12-12-2008, 11:51 PM
I read the post and liked it.
But...
Woodyard would get killed at Mike.

I dont think you could dump half the entire team. You do need to have more than 25 guys on your roster, the players would get a tad tired.

I think using anther higher pick on another kick returner is a waste.

Peppers will not sign with Denver, For some reason Denver is not a hot spot for sought after free agents.

TXBRONC
12-12-2008, 11:58 PM
I read the post and liked it.
But...
Woodyard would get killed at Mike.

I dont think you could dump half the entire team. You do need to have more than 25 guys on your roster, the players would get a tad tired.

I think using anther higher pick on another kick returner is a waste.

Peppers will not sign with Denver, For some reason Denver is not a hot spot for sought after free agents.

I think more than anything its that Denver more than likely wont offer Peppers what other teams will be willing to offer him.

yardog
12-13-2008, 12:09 AM
If June can play the SLB in Tampa Woodyard can do the same in Denver.
Woodyard Larson DJ.

G_Money
12-13-2008, 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by BIG303 View Post
Dear respected sportsmen of Denver, It has been on my mind to write an email regarding the Denver Broncos of this year. There are a few simple changes that need to be made for Denver to be a Super Bowl caliber team so bear with me.

Glad to have you! Stick around. The paragraph version is easier to read than the non-paragraph version, so I'm going with that, but pay no attention to the drunken hecklers. The content of your post is fine.


First of all the offense needs to be left completely alone with the exception of drafting the fastest receiver available, and the fastest RB available. We have two good power back with Hillis and Torrain, we have a speed back with Anthony "quick six" Alridge. The need for a pure speed receiver lies in the fact that Eddie Royal is proving to be too good of a receiver to have returning kicks. We do not need anymore cheap injuries to our star players. That is it for the offense. Find a speed back to complement Hillis/Torrain and let them be.

Hillis tore his hamstring off the bone. That's a bad injury for an athlete. Torain has had two catastrophic injuries in back-to-back years and we have no idea how he'll respond after knee surgery. TD never made it back. So I'm still looking for a power back, or at least a back with some leg drive. I don't need a fast back. There's still Hall or Young. And like you said, we have Alridge.

Who also returns punts and kicks, btw, as does Jack Williams. We don't need to get crazy if we scale Royal's return duties back - there are other guys on the roster who can do the job.

I certainly like having a legit playmaker in Royal at the return position for once, though. If Alridge can take it from him, well and good, but I wanna see the fight for it first.


Now moving onto the defense. First of all a lot of players need to be let go. Niko Koutivides goes, Nate Webster goes, Marlon Mcree goes, Marquand Manuel goes, Ekuban goes, Kenny Peterson goes, Nic Clemons, Josh Shaw, Englebrennar, basically every Dlineman and LB. The exceptions being Dumervil, Robertson, Thomas, Moss, DJ Williams, Wesely Woodyard, Winborn, Boss Bailey, and Spencer Larsen.

We play a rotational DL. Those guys may go or stay, but guys just like them are gonna be coming in anyway. And I disagree that we need to keep Doom and Moss both around. Maybe as backups, but seriously we're gonna want to think about moving one of them if we get a legit DE or two (please God, two) in here. There's only so many roster spots and I can't be spending a pass-rushing slot on a DE who isn't rushing the passer and can't defend the run either.


Here is how to solve the LB position. Wesley Woodyard needs to be the middle linebacker.

I wouldn't play him there, but only because he's never done it. Jon Beason was one of the guys I wanted, is "undersized" and plays the position very well. At this point I don't care if he's playing DE like UpChuck, I just want him to see the field. I still think Will or SS are the best positions for him, and if we were gonna add the right players I could be talked into Larsen as our starting MLB and Woodyard as our SS next season. Too bad Larsen's hurt, I was looking forward to seeing how much better DJ looked playing next to a guy who understands the responsibilities of the MLB position.


We need to get bigger up the middle in order to keep the 330lb guards off of Woodyard and DJ.

Carlton Powell is not big. He's just good at his job, or at least he was. If 280 lb Casey Wiegmann can kill 370 lb Jenkins, then wouldn't it also be fair to say that a 280 lb DL can hold off a 330 lb OL? Especially in a rotational DL like we play? I don't care about size as much as I do about adding the right players who can give more.


Here is the long shot, we need to make a run a Julius Peppers. I'd rather get Suggs, but both are long shots, as you say. Peppers is most likely a short-term solution - we'll still need to add another young DE to train, since it takes a while to get them up to speed. But first we'd probably want a DC who knows what to do with DL before we stock up on them.


Moving onto the secondary, Josh Barrett needs to remain the starter.

I second that notion.


Then for our first round draft pick we draft the safety out of USC Taylor Mays who is also around 220 and runs a sub 4.4 in the 40. If Mays falls into the 20s where we should be drafting I may have to eat my hat. There are other safeties available though, that I like better anyway. Adding a safety in the first is fine as long as Woodyard is on the field.


I also think we should try and wrestle away Ron Rivera away fromt the Chargers (he is their LB coach) because he was the mastermind of the Bears defense when they went to the Super Bowl.

Ron's coaching their D now. They fired their old DC. And if Norv loses his job this year Rivera will probably be in the running to be the head coach. He wants to be a HC. Making him a DC is just giving him a place to audition for a head coaching job from, so know that going in.

I'd still be fine with him as our DC, btw. ;)

Thanks for adding to the conversation on the board. :beer:

~G

Lonestar
12-13-2008, 01:19 AM
I don't think that at all. I think Shanahan and his staff sat down and evaluated the situation and thought while D.J. good at the Mike position his best position is the weakside and that they wanted to optimize his abilities.

I heard fans like yourself say that D.J. is to damn stupid to play the Mike just because Niko was brought in. I don't think that's the case I think what they saw was a linebacker who could be very good in the middle or great on the weakside.


I think I said I had heard that.. Please do not put words in my mouth... I might have said it in the past, but was repeating what I had heard..

I makes NO sense to play guy out of his true position unless you have to.. They tried him at MLB and he was not as they thought he would be or as good as he was at WLB.. One of those conversion project that did not work out so well for mikey and company...

Shazam!
12-13-2008, 01:46 AM
By reading this kind of thread, one couldn't believe this team can clinch their Division and a Playoff spot on Sunday.

I think a lot of problems are the team's offseason conditioning, evidenced by the long strings of injuries the past two seasons, practicing in pads seemed to improve the run-stopping a bit and a new DLine Coach. It isn't possible that 60-something DLinemen ALL sucked. Fix the DLine, the whole Defense would be better.

Lonestar
12-13-2008, 01:48 AM
By reading this kind of thread, one couldn't believe this team can clinch their Division and a Playoff spot on Sunday.

kind like by delfault or kissing your own sister..:salute:

MHCBill
12-13-2008, 08:55 AM
Problems everywhere with these ideas...

Why would Rivera switch from DC of the Chargers to DC of the Broncos?

Taylor Mays will be a top 15 pick, which we won't have.

Julius Peppers is not going anywhere.

Woodyard is waaaaay too small to be an effective MLB... 219 lbs. Leave him in space if you really want him to be effective... WLB or SS.

Cutting vets depending on their contracts does not automatically free up tons of cap space. Depending on their bonuses and length of contract you have to pay a cap penalty cutting them early. Those cap penalties limit how much available cap space you have left.

Again, welcome to the forum, just be prepared for some disagreements.

Ziggy
12-13-2008, 08:57 AM
Welcome to the forums 303. You bring up some good points, but even though DJ is better at Mike than Webster and Niko, that's not really saying anything. He does an average job at MLB, and is a playmaker on the outside. Woodyard is just too small to be a MLB in the NFL. I like his size and speed, and the fact that the coaching staff recognizes that they need to keep him on the field. I'm still an advocate of playing him at safety along with Barrett.

Yes, we need Dlineman. Always have. High first round picks don't usually pan out on the DLine early though. I'd rather see them address the position of DT and DE without using a first. Use that first on a safety or MLB, and go with the later picks for Dlineman.

Hillis is not a franchise RB, but he fits this offense very well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Denver send Graham packing and move him to TE. Hillis can block, has decent size, and great hands. It keeps him on the field, and saves some money on the cap, that we could throw into FA. We also have a stable of backs coming into training camp next season with Young, Hall, Alridge, Torrain, possibly Pittman, and the kid we just brought off of the practice squad. Maybe a couple of them can stay healthy long enough next season to find out if any of them can carry the load.

MOtorboat
12-13-2008, 09:00 AM
Welcome to the forums 303. You bring up some good points, but even though DJ is better at Mike than Webster and Niko, that's not really saying anything. He does an average job at MLB, and is a playmaker on the outside. Woodyard is just too small to be a MLB in the NFL. I like his size and speed, and the fact that the coaching staff recognizes that they need to keep him on the field. I'm still an advocate of playing him at safety along with Barrett.

Yes, we need Dlineman. Always have. High first round picks don't usually pan out on the DLine early though. I'd rather see them address the position of DT and DE without using a first. Use that first on a safety or MLB, and go with the later picks for Dlineman.

Hillis is not a franchise RB, but he fits this offense very well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Denver send Graham packing and move him to TE. Hillis can block, has decent size, and great hands. It keeps him on the field, and saves some money on the cap, that we could throw into FA. We also have a stable of backs coming into training camp next season with Young, Hall, Alridge, Torrain, possibly Pittman, and the kid we just brought off of the practice squad. Maybe a couple of them can stay healthy long enough next season to find out if any of them can carry the load.

Nothing would surprise me with Shanahan, but Hillis is best utilized in the backfield. What we've asked out of our tight ends in this offense, probably isn't something Hillis can do. Sure, he's got great hands, as has been noted, but he's best catching passes on dump offs or designed flares. Obviously, we haven't seen him from the tight end position, so this is some speculation, its just that I don't see him being as good at tight end as Daniel Graham has been.

Don't quote me on this, but I think we would still take a pretty large cap hit if we just let Graham go, so I don't think it gives us enough money to put us into the running for a top free agent. Also, remember we've got to pay these young guys pretty soon, too. I believe most of them after the 2009 season (all, but Cutler, for the most part).

Ziggy
12-13-2008, 09:09 AM
Nothing would surprise me with Shanahan, but Hillis is best utilized in the backfield. What we've asked out of our tight ends in this offense, probably isn't something Hillis can do. Sure, he's got great hands, as has been noted, but he's best catching passes on dump offs or designed flares. Obviously, we haven't seen him from the tight end position, so this is some speculation, its just that I don't see him being as good at tight end as Daniel Graham has been.

Don't quote me on this, but I think we would still take a pretty large cap hit if we just let Graham go, so I don't think it gives us enough money to put us into the running for a top free agent. Also, remember we've got to pay these young guys pretty soon, too. I believe most of them after the 2009 season (all, but Cutler, for the most part).


Which is exactly why I think Graham goes. With 2 stud tackles, you don't need to pay a blocking TE top money. Without those tackles, he earns his paycheck keeping Cutler safe. With them, he's a luxury that we just don't have to have any more. I'm a fan of Daniel Graham, but even so, he's overpaid. With this offensive line, I'd rather give Sheff enough money to keep him around (if he can stay healthy), and replace Graham with another receiving threat. Denver is going to have to make some tough cap choices, and I think Graham becomes a cap casualty.

Fan in Exile
12-13-2008, 09:50 AM
Which is exactly why I think Graham goes. With 2 stud tackles, you don't need to pay a blocking TE top money. Without those tackles, he earns his paycheck keeping Cutler safe. With them, he's a luxury that we just don't have to have any more. I'm a fan of Daniel Graham, but even so, he's overpaid. With this offensive line, I'd rather give Sheff enough money to keep him around (if he can stay healthy), and replace Graham with another receiving threat. Denver is going to have to make some tough cap choices, and I think Graham becomes a cap casualty.

I wouldn't mind seeing if we could trade Graham for some D-line help. Anyone know if there is a team out there looking for that type of trade?

MOtorboat
12-13-2008, 09:52 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing if we could trade Graham for some D-line help. Anyone know if there is a team out there looking for that type of trade?

Probably not anyone out there looking to offer up anything that will help us. Not with Graham's salary.

gobroncsnv
12-13-2008, 10:39 AM
Shanny did talk about Hillis being able to fill in as an H-back, which we've really not used very much. That is one of the most versatile positions ever created, and would really play to Hillis' strengths. Kid's a great blocker, can run the ball, and he's demonstrated great hands when thrown to. Look at the teams that have deployed H-backs, and you'll find teams that have some of the best 3rd down options, almost without regard to distance.

drewloc
12-13-2008, 11:17 AM
I don't believe that size should be that much of an issue with Woodyard, he could easily put on 10-15 pounds and be up in the mid 230's. That said though, I'm also not suggesting he should make the move to Mike either. That's one position where if they really were looking at that as an option, I would prefer it be something they use an entire off season and training camp getting him acclimated to the position. At this point I don't think it is a good idea to switch him immediately. Although never say never with this team, we can't figure out if Larsen is a FB or a LB. So really, who knows? :confused:

Fan in Exile
12-13-2008, 01:04 PM
Probably not anyone out there looking to offer up anything that will help us. Not with Graham's salary.

His salary isn't that bad especially if you're trying to keep your QB upright.

Lonestar
12-13-2008, 01:19 PM
Problems everywhere with these ideas...

Why would Rivera switch from DC of the Chargers to DC of the Broncos?

Taylor Mays will be a top 15 pick, which we won't have.

Julius Peppers is not going anywhere.

Woodyard is waaaaay too small to be an effective MLB... 219 lbs. Leave him in space if you really want him to be effective... WLB or SS.

Cutting vets depending on their contracts does not automatically free up tons of cap space. Depending on their bonuses and length of contract you have to pay a cap penalty cutting them early. Those cap penalties limit how much available cap space you have left.

Again, welcome to the forum, just be prepared for some disagreements.


if Mr steroid comes back at 80% or more that Defense becomes scary again..and that was about all they lacked this past year.. As much as I think it is nuts the rumor mill around it Norv gets a pass because of all the injuries and will get another year to win it all.. So Rivera is not moving except for a HC job..

Woodyard is on record saying he weighs 212 as we speak.. and is only 6'1" way to small IMO for MLB..

Having some of the older vets as back ups is not a problem as long as we get a couple of studs n the draft DAY ONE this year..

Lonestar
12-13-2008, 01:28 PM
I don't believe that size should be that much of an issue with Woodyard, he could easily put on 10-15 pounds and be up in the mid 230's. That said though, I'm also not suggesting he should make the move to Mike either. That's one position where if they really were looking at that as an option, I would prefer it be something they use an entire off season and training camp getting him acclimated to the position. At this point I don't think it is a good idea to switch him immediately. Although never say never with this team, we can't figure out if Larsen is a FB or a LB. So really, who knows? :confused:

I really love Woodyard have since the combine when I first saw him at that time IIRC he was 219 he had bulked up for it, when he reported the TC he was up to 230-232.. it seems his natural weight for his height and frame is about 210-215 way to small for MLB..

Which given his past history of playing safety as a freshmen in college his speed, instincts, playing in open space and tackling abilities SS is a natural spot for him.. Call him our next John Lynch..

Lonestar
12-13-2008, 01:30 PM
His salary isn't that bad especially if you're trying to keep your QB upright.

Considering the maturation of Clady and Harris for that matter. If there is an issue with cap space money, I'll bet we see a contract extension/reduction with another NICE signing bonus and he stays a bronco till he retires..

MOtorboat
12-13-2008, 04:43 PM
His salary isn't that bad especially if you're trying to keep your QB upright.

That's why teams pay left tackles, not blocking tight ends, but I digress...

Fan in Exile
12-13-2008, 05:20 PM
That's why teams pay left tackles, not blocking tight ends, but I digress...

He's not just a blocking tight end, and they also get paid as well. Not everyone has a stud LT, and a team that needs help would be willing to pay him.

TXBRONC
12-13-2008, 05:35 PM
I think I said I had heard that.. Please do not put words in my mouth... I might have said it in the past, but was repeating what I had heard..

I makes NO sense to play guy out of his true position unless you have to.. They tried him at MLB and he was not as they thought he would be or as good as he was at WLB.. One of those conversion project that did not work out so well for mikey and company...

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth nor was I intending to accuse you of anything. I did realize that you were repeating what you heard.

As far as it makes no sense to play a guy at a different position unless you have isn't something that the NFL subscribes too. If that's the case then there is no need to move Woodyard to safety. That would mean by your reckoning moving Shannon Sharpe to tight end was a mistake or whatever team converted Howard Griffith to fullback made a mistake

You're making assumptions that D.J. that you can't back up. Williams wasn't moved back to the weak side because he stunk at the mike position. He was moved back because it better utilizes his talents.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2008, 06:27 PM
Yeah, but D.J. has been a mental midget since Miami. That's the truf.

dogfish
12-13-2008, 10:06 PM
let's not forget that graham gets paid as much for his blocking in the running game as he does for pass protection. . . of course, if all you want is a purely one-dimensional blocking TE, there are always younger versions of jason dunn or kyle brady that are available for considerably less than what graham makes-- his ability to block at that level and still be a factor in the passing game is what got him the big bucks. . .

early this season i was looking at him as a top prospect for salary cap relief, but i'm now feeling that he's earning his money with the way he's been contributing catching the ball recently-- 4 TDs for a guy that's usually about the 4th or 5th option in the passing game isn't too shabby. . .

TXBRONC
12-13-2008, 10:36 PM
let's not forget that graham gets paid as much for his blocking in the running game as he does for pass protection. . . of course, if all you want is a purely one-dimensional blocking TE, there are always younger versions of jason dunn or kyle brady that are available for considerably less than what graham makes-- his ability to block at that level and still be a factor in the passing game is what got him the big bucks. . .

early this season i was looking at him as a top prospect for salary cap relief, but i'm now feeling that he's earning his money with the way he's been contributing catching the ball recently-- 4 TDs for a guy that's usually about the 4th or 5th option in the passing game isn't too shabby. . .

Most definitely, Graham is earning his keep. At the rate he is going he could easily end up with 30 receptions by season's end.