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View Full Version : Has your opinion of Kyle Orton changed from last week?



sneakers
09-18-2011, 11:33 PM
:noidea:

Ravage!!!
09-18-2011, 11:37 PM
No. He still sucks.

silkamilkamonico
09-18-2011, 11:38 PM
The opinion of Orton should not be exponential. He simply is what he is. He's a mid level QB in the NFL who isn't going to win games outside of the team's context of play.

Orton is somewhere between the 21 and 24 range (the kind of QB that leads mediocre to losing NFL teams) for starting QB's in the NFL.

BroncoBJ
09-18-2011, 11:54 PM
No. He still sucks.

Hes a winner tho. Now improving to 4-15 in his last 19 starts. :elefant:

scott.475
09-19-2011, 12:05 AM
Hes a winner tho. Now improving to 4-15 in his last 19 starts. :elefant:

Championship!

To answer the question: NO!

Bugs Baloney
09-19-2011, 12:08 AM
no, not one bit. can't stand the guy at all.

igoe4broncos
09-19-2011, 12:09 AM
Nope. He is the same exact guy he always is. Flashes here and there, but nothing ever consistent. Everytime he is under pressure he folds like a pancake.

He almost blew today's game by not leading the offense to ANYTHING on his last few drives. Luckily the defense stepped up and made a stop on the final possession to save the game.

I Eat Staples
09-19-2011, 12:10 AM
Nah, unlike most on here I don't think Orton is bad, but he's not the right guy for Denver. He'd be good on a team that's built to win now because he's a good game manager. He won't lead a young team to wins by himself.

Ravage!!!
09-19-2011, 12:16 AM
Nah, unlike most on here I don't think Orton is bad, but he's not the right guy for Denver. He'd be good on a team that's built to win now because he's a good game manager. He won't lead a young team to wins by himself.

He won't LEAD a team to wins.. but might be able to avoid enough mistakes to keep you from losing.

John Bad Elk
09-19-2011, 03:50 AM
No, he still sucks.

SoCalImport
09-19-2011, 04:01 AM
If we had all the other pieces in place (ala 2001 Ravens) and were desperate for a qb. Orton would be fine....
I've got nothing against him.

nflfan
09-19-2011, 05:21 AM
Orton > Dilfer :D

Orton > Collins, Luke McCown, Henne, McNabb (at this stage), Campbell, Alex Smith, Tarvaris Jackson ... all their corresponding teams could have had an upgrade with Orton at the helm.

Orton > Hasselbeck (not in ability, but definitely in shelf life)

Orton = Grossman (with the level Grossman is playing now for Washington, for what he's supposed to do); Shanahan is doing a Plummer with Grossman for the Redskins.

chazoe60
09-19-2011, 06:15 AM
Mine has, I think less of him.

He didn't do anything in crunch time once again. Crunch time isn't only when you're behind but also those times when you're ahead but feel the game slipping away amd need to make a few first downs to ice it. Orton is the least clutch QB in the NFL, thank goodness he plays for us.

Dirk
09-19-2011, 06:45 AM
Orton is Orton. Nothing has changed in my opinion.

TXBRONC
09-19-2011, 06:49 AM
No. I still see him a journeyman quarterback.

threefolddead
09-19-2011, 06:56 AM
Orton had a good day statistically but thats it. If you watched the game then you know that nothing about Orton has changed. He was still out there locking onto guys. He till couldn't get it done in the red zone. The running game was rocking and rolling and he didn't take advantage of that. He was certainly better than last week but thats Orton he goes from complete suckage to mediocre suckage. His range never changes.

MileHighCrew
09-19-2011, 07:35 AM
no, still making bad decissions, taking sacks and trying to give the game away.

UnderArmour
09-19-2011, 07:38 AM
He looked a lot better hitting receivers down the field. We need to keep criticizing him so he keeps having these kinds of ball games. He looked loads better hitting receivers closer to or past the first down marker as opposed to throwing it to them 5 yards back and praying they convert. For just having Decker, Willis, Tebow, Larsen, Fells, McGahee, and Ball to throw to I'd say he played pretty damn well. Of course, he still struggles on 3rd down and in the red zone, but he accomplished the most important statistic thanks to big plays by the defense: he won the game. So yeah, I feel better about him this week.

Thank you Robert Ayers!

Tned
09-19-2011, 07:43 AM
I don't think there was anything that would or could change opinions.

Orton is what he is.

More times than not, he won't lose the game.
More times than not, he won't win the game.

When he has a 'big' game, it's typically with a few big plays. This game, he got those from Decker, instead of Lloyd.

I was glad to be reminded that QB's with nice, compact windups don't get get strip/sacked and fumble the ball. Oh wait....

BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 07:59 AM
Orton was bailed out yesterday because the defense stepped up and he wasn't asked to lead Denver to victory.

Nothing has changed, he's a 7 year pro, he isn't going to get any better, he is who he is.

MasterShake
09-19-2011, 08:14 AM
Ha! They just mentioned Tned and this thread on Vic and Gary this morning on 102.3 The Ticket.

Tned
09-19-2011, 08:15 AM
Ha! They just mentioned Tned and this thread on Vic and Gary this morning on 102.3 The Ticket.

Yea, I was listening, too. About to go to work, but that was kind of cool.

chazoe60
09-19-2011, 08:17 AM
Ha! They just mentioned Tned and this thread on Vic and Gary this morning on 102.3 The Ticket.

What did they say?

Tned
09-19-2011, 08:19 AM
What did they say?

Just something like Tned at Broncosforums.com in our chatroom said they posted this question on their site. Has your opinion of Kyle Orton changed from last week?

muse
09-19-2011, 08:21 AM
He had some very nice throws - the OL take some credit for providing a nicer pocket this week than last. The guy definitely benefited from having a more balanced attack on O - again, good job opening running lanes by the OL.

That said, I just knew that we would have some 3-and-outs near the end of the game when we needed them. Part of that's on the playcalling but also a bit of that's on Orton. Plus his pocket awareness sucks. On the strip sack, he needs to step up more than he did. Yeah, Clady should've run the guy a bit further back, but KO had more than enough room to avoid the sack. Another sack earlier in the game, one of the Bengal DEs was taking a deep arc on Franklin. KO feels the pressure, but instead of stepping up, he went backwards into the guy. That sack was totally on Orton. I guess after having guys like Elway, Plummer and Cutler we've been a bit spoilt.

vandammage13
09-19-2011, 08:37 AM
My opinion remains the same...

Were it not for the Bengals saftey pulling a 3 stooges on that TD pass to Decker, this game would have been much different.

He did nothing to help us win, as usual. From watching this game, it is clear that if we play a team that can get pressure with their front four that we are in trouble.

Luckily, the Bengals are bad...Kudos to Orton for outdueling the immortal Andy Dalton.

Northman
09-19-2011, 08:52 AM
Nothing has changed for me.

Orton is an average Qb who can make some nice throws but when the going gets tough he shits himself. Luckily, the defense despite the injuries came through and held up when they needed too. But Orton will never be the kind of guy to come in the clutch when you need him too.

BigDaddyBronco
09-19-2011, 08:53 AM
My opinion of Orton hasn't changed at all. He did play decently with the injury problems, but Decker and McGahee were the best offensive players yesterday.

I still haven't seen Orton will his way to a victory, more likely is he is not trying to be the reason for the loss.

MasterShake
09-19-2011, 08:59 AM
My opinion of Orton is the same, I think he is a servicable QB who makes some good throws every now and then. That Decker TD was all Decker though, he had to come back for it in double coverage.

My opinion of this team is much better though, they were put in some awful situations yesterday (to the point we we had to trot out Tebow at WR) and I think the team pulled together and willed themselves to a win. Thats something they would not have done for McD in my opinion.

slim
09-19-2011, 09:19 AM
Decker saved his ass yesterday, but I can't say anything bad after a win.

BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 09:22 AM
My opinion remains the same...

Were it not for the Bengals saftey pulling a 3 stooges on that TD pass to Decker, this game would have been much different.

He did nothing to help us win, as usual. From watching this game, it is clear that if we play a team that can get pressure with their front four that we are in trouble.

Luckily, the Bengals are bad...Kudos to Orton for outdueling the immortal Andy Dalton.

Actually, Dalton had a much better day... :laugh::laugh:

vandammage13
09-19-2011, 09:29 AM
This is why my opinion of Orton hasn't changed...

This guy is full of excuses, even in victory. Its like a built-in reaction with him.


"It didn't always look pretty -- it couldn't look pretty with the way our personnel was.. -Kyle Orton

He may have been speaking the truth here, but how about embracing victory and how the team pulled through, rather than feeling the need to defend yourself for nearly getting beat by a rookie.

Mike
09-19-2011, 09:32 AM
:noidea:

Has my opinion changed? :laugh: No. He is who is he is.

He had some nice passes yesterday though, but it would have been nice if he could have sustained some drives in the 4th quarter. Still an A game for him.

Glad the defense was able to stiffin up and there was no need for a comeback though.

CoachChaz
09-19-2011, 09:32 AM
He is what he is. It's been covered in this thread and dozens of others. But I guess we needed one more to make sure the point was made.

Mediocre...not the QB of the future in Denver. Nuff said

vandammage13
09-19-2011, 09:39 AM
Part of me wants to fault the playcalling for all of the late 3 and outs...

But then I think the coaching staff was merely protecting Orton from himself, knowing that you just don't put the ball in his hands late in the game unless you want something bad to happen.

Kudos to Fox on that one. It appears that he and Orton are made for eachother.

BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 09:41 AM
Personally, I think Denver will be 1-4 going into bye week. I don't see us beating Tennessee or Green Bay on the road, then San Diego at home. It will be interesting to see if we make a switch at QB if that happens.

Bye week seems like the logical time to make a move if it's going to happen. A lot of it will depend on how the offense looks in those presumed losses.

vandammage13
09-19-2011, 09:54 AM
Personally, I think Denver will be 1-4 going into bye week. I don't see us beating Tennessee or Green Bay on the road, then San Diego at home. It will be interesting to see if we make a switch at QB if that happens.

Bye week seems like the logical time to make a move if it's going to happen. A lot of it will depend on how the offense looks in those presumed losses.

I tend to agree, but I want to be optimistic here...

We will be underdogs at Tennessee, but we aren't that much worse than them considering CJ2K seems to still be finding his way.

Green Bay looked beatable yesterday at Carolina...I doubt will win that one though.

And although SD is clearly a better team than we are, they seem to always find ways to lose games despite their talent. I'd say we have a puncher's chance in that game if things fall right.

I see us finding a way to win one of the three, so we should be 2-3 heading into the bye.

Northman
09-19-2011, 09:56 AM
Tennesse manhandled Bmore yesterday. I dont think we will beat them.

BigDaddyBronco
09-19-2011, 10:00 AM
They tend to play well against Tenn, historically. So I think they'll be in that game, Tenn does have a pretty decent DLine and OLine, so it could come down to the battle in the trenches.

SD has our number, they'll crush us. GB is also an excellent team, I doubt they will be in that game.

1-4 at the bye seems reasonable, 2-3 if they play well.

BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 10:01 AM
I tend to agree, but I want to be optimistic here...

We will be underdogs at Tennessee, but we aren't that much worse than them considering CJ2K seems to still be finding his way.

Green Bay looked beatable yesterday at Carolina...I doubt will win that one though.

And although SD is clearly a better team than we are, they seem to always find ways to lose games despite their talent. I'd say we have a puncher's chance in that game if things fall right.

I see us finding a way to win one of the three, so we should be 2-3 heading into the bye.

Wow... That is optimistic... :laugh:

We COULD beat Tennessee, but it's going to take a really solid game on both sides of the football. CJ blows up against slow defenses like ours. They looked really physical against the Ravens yesterday and pretty much dominated the line of scrimmage.

The Packers are going to brutalize us. I just don't see any way we beat them on the road, or even keep it close for that matter.

SD has no problems beating up on us. Rivers always has his way, Gates has good games, and their RBs always eat us up in the passing game. I just don't see a way we trade points with them. They are just a better team.

I could be wrong, would love to be wrong, but that's just how I realistically see it.

BORDERLINE
09-19-2011, 10:03 AM
I'll take the win as ugly as it was. I don't care

But to answer the question I still say NO, I feel with Quinn or Tebow we would have still won that game.

If Orton keeps winning he will shut the haters up but that is only contingent on him winning and with GB and SD in the coming weeks that is gonna be a tuff task.

TXBRONC
09-19-2011, 10:14 AM
Tennesse manhandled Bmore yesterday. I dont think we will beat them.

Yeah that was a surprise. Hasselbeck threw for well over 300 yards, 358 to exact.

TXBRONC
09-19-2011, 10:17 AM
They tend to play well against Tenn, historically. So I think they'll be in that game, Tenn does have a pretty decent DLine and OLine, so it could come down to the battle in the trenches.

SD has our number, they'll crush us. GB is also an excellent team, I doubt they will be in that game.

1-4 at the bye seems reasonable, 2-3 if they play well.

The difference this year over the last couple of times we've faced the Titans is that Vince Young isn't the starting quarterback.

EastCoastBronco
09-19-2011, 10:28 AM
No.
I still wish we had shipped his choking ass to Miami...

Slick
09-19-2011, 10:32 AM
I still loathe the fact that he's our starter but it was nice to see an injury riddled, extremely thin broncos team get a win.

I agree with stud however that it's our last win before the bye week.

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Tned
09-19-2011, 10:45 AM
I'll take the win as ugly as it was. I don't care

But to answer the question I still say NO, I feel with Quinn or Tebow we would have still won that game.

If Orton keeps winning he will shut the haters up but that is only contingent on him winning and with GB and SD in the coming weeks that is gonna be a tuff task.

A win is a win is a win.

Chicago had plenty of ugly wins back in '05 or whenever it was. Pitt the same. Baltimore in the early '00s. Don't get me wrong, we aren't in their caliber right now, because our defense isn't close to their caliber. However, the point is that the Ram's greatest show on turf, and the Broncos led by Elway and TD, are fun to watch, but I will take a win, whether exciting or ugly.

Northman
09-19-2011, 10:47 AM
I dont think he isnt taking the win Tned. Only that it is basically a hollow win considering the team we played is equally as bad as us.

EastCoastBronco
09-19-2011, 10:47 AM
Here's a fun scenario for all of us who want Orton off our collective lawns...

We don't win another game before the bye.
We trade Oh-Oh Orton to Miami during the BYE week because they will be desperate by then.
Tebow or Quinn start taking reps with the starting O (what's left of it)
We play Miami the week after the BYE.
Tim Tebow gets his much maligned "Gator Party" thrown for him before the game.
The Denver D (what's left of it) gets to show Orton what they really think of him...

And everyone lives happily ever after...

Northman
09-19-2011, 10:50 AM
Orton wouldnt do anything different in Miami right now.

BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 10:50 AM
I look at it like this...

At most we only have 14 more games or Orton, likely less than that. If week 5 is his last start for Denver, then I will be a happy camper. :salute:

lgenf
09-19-2011, 10:53 AM
WE WON
Orton didn't play lights out - so opinion does not change

in fact, from the postings on the gameday thread, we may have won the game inspite of some things that Orton did.

If we lost the game by a long FG at the end, would Orton be blamed for it b/c of the fumble at the end?

if the answer is yes, then how can an opinion change for the better on Orton, the defense saved his ass then.

EastCoastBronco
09-19-2011, 10:55 AM
Orton wouldnt do anything different in Miami right now.

But at least he'd be sucking in Miami instead of sucking here...

Nomad
09-19-2011, 11:12 AM
No. He still sucks.

No need to read any further......Rav pretty much summed it up!

BORDERLINE
09-19-2011, 11:27 AM
A win is a win is a win.

Chicago had plenty of ugly wins back in '05 or whenever it was. Pitt the same. Baltimore in the early '00s. Don't get me wrong, we aren't in their caliber right now, because our defense isn't close to their caliber. However, the point is that the Ram's greatest show on turf, and the Broncos led by Elway and TD, are fun to watch, but I will take a win, whether exciting or ugly.

Gosh, I love to win.... Ugly, Pretty, semi pretty (with beer googles).

But I would rather have them when we play well not when we squander a 17-3 lead to a bottom feeding team instead of putting them away which makes us not so great either. Maybe if we had more than 2 WR catching the ball Orton would have looked better but this is the NFL you don't get to use that excuse.

On another note why did J.Fox only go with 3 healthy WR that's a pretty asinine move there. For arguments sake what if we where down 17-3 and had to throw to get back in the game? How would we have done it if lets say the Bengals played more coverage and made us run the ball? The coaching staff really put this team behind the 8-ball before the kickoff. That should never happen again. Gaffney would have been huge yesterday (what did we get for him again?? where is that guy??)

lgenf
09-19-2011, 11:36 AM
Gaffney would have been huge yesterday (what did we get for him again?? where is that guy??)


he's in Washington - catching passes from Grossman

jhildebrand
09-19-2011, 11:51 AM
Nope.

He had Matt Willis WIDE OPEN in the end zone and couldn't make a simple, accurate throw to ice the game. The rook on the other team looked WAY MORE DESIRABLE and like a true leader.

Finally, all those dropped INT's didn't help his case. Each week with Orton this year sets us back a week next year.

Tned
09-19-2011, 11:55 AM
Gosh, I love to win.... Ugly, Pretty, semi pretty (with beer googles).

But I would rather have them when we play well not when we squander a 17-3 lead to a bottom feeding team instead of putting them away which makes us not so great either. Maybe if we had more than 2 WR catching the ball Orton would have looked better but this is the NFL you don't get to use that excuse.

On another note why did J.Fox only go with 3 healthy WR that's a pretty asinine move there. For arguments sake what if we where down 17-3 and had to throw to get back in the game? How would we have done it if lets say the Bengals played more coverage and made us run the ball? The coaching staff really put this team behind the 8-ball before the kickoff. That should never happen again. Gaffney would have been huge yesterday (what did we get for him again?? where is that guy??)

Elway addressed that on Vic and Gary's show this morning. As of Friday, they thought Lloyd was going to play. He practiced on Thursday and it was all fine. They decided to bring an RB up from the practice squad and move Warren to IR, but didn't bring a WR up, because they expected Lloyd to play. In warmups, it became clear he couldn't go.

If they had brought a WR up from the practice squad, they would have had to cut a player. So, it was a tough position to be in. If you look at their inactive list for this past game, they were basically all starters.

BigDaddyBronco
09-19-2011, 02:55 PM
The difference this year over the last couple of times we've faced the Titans is that Vince Young isn't the starting quarterback.

True, but Hasselbeck isn't Tom Brady either.

BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 03:47 PM
True, but Hasselbeck isn't Tom Brady either.

He doesn't have to be. We made Andy Dalton look like the 2nd coming of Joe Montana yesterday, AT HOME.

TXBRONC
09-19-2011, 04:12 PM
True, but Hasselbeck isn't Tom Brady either.

Good point. However my larger than life friend Hasselbeck put up 358 yards passing on the Ravens.

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nevcraw
09-19-2011, 04:46 PM
not one iota. but my enjoyment of Bronco football def takes a hit everytime i see him take the field. I would be so happy if he was our Back-up though..

NightTerror218
09-19-2011, 04:54 PM
Good point. However my larger than life friend Hasselbeck put up 358 yards passing on the Ravens.

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Off day for them? They had serious pressure on Flacco too.

nevcraw
09-19-2011, 06:55 PM
anyone else see how andy dalton was working his team on the sidelines?? what was orton doing when he wasn't not closing out the game? nothin'.

MOtorboat
09-19-2011, 07:05 PM
anyone else see how andy dalton was working his team on the sidelines?? what was orton doing when he wasn't not closing out the game? nothin'.

I guess you missed him doing this last week on Monday Night Football, no?

The cameras always follow the quarterback trying to make a comeback.

TXBRONC
09-19-2011, 07:17 PM
I guess you missed him doing this last week on Monday Night Football, no?

The cameras always follow the quarterback trying to make a comeback.

Always? I don't think so.

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MOtorboat
09-19-2011, 07:20 PM
Always? I don't think so.

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OK...a lot of times cameras follow quarterbacks on the sideline who are trying to make comebacks.

There are plenty of things to criticize Orton for, but criticizing Orton because the CBS cameras didn't catch him pumping up his teammates really isn't one of them, considering he was doing the same the week before.

Dzone
09-19-2011, 07:25 PM
Quote of the day:
"Kyle Orton-All that guy does is win" ~Jim Rome
:pound:

BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 07:49 PM
I guess you missed him doing this last week on Monday Night Football, no?

The cameras always follow the quarterback trying to make a comeback.

:elefant:

MOtorboat
09-19-2011, 08:21 PM
:elefant:

:welcome:

:coffee:

Northman
09-19-2011, 08:25 PM
Quote of the day:
"Kyle Orton-All that guy does is win" ~Jim Rome
:pound:

Rome is comical. Where was he last week with that quote? :lol:

Medford Bronco
09-19-2011, 08:37 PM
no, still making bad decissions, taking sacks and trying to give the game away.

Dont forget fumbling to give easy points to the other team.

He is an okay QB.

He would look good on a team with a great D.

Medford Bronco
09-19-2011, 08:41 PM
I tend to agree, but I want to be optimistic here...

We will be underdogs at Tennessee, but we aren't that much worse than them considering CJ2K seems to still be finding his way.

Green Bay looked beatable yesterday at Carolina...I doubt will win that one though.

And although SD is clearly a better team than we are, they seem to always find ways to lose games despite their talent. I'd say we have a puncher's chance in that game if things fall right.

I see us finding a way to win one of the three, so we should be 2-3 heading into the bye.

If Dalton can to that to our D what is one of the best Qbs in the league going to do.:confused:

SD owns us recently, I hope I am wrong though.

We have a chance vs Tenn because their offense sucks. But we suck on the road in recent memory so I am not that confident.

Northman
09-19-2011, 08:44 PM
If Dalton can to that to our D what is one of the best Qbs in the league going to do.:confused:

SD owns us recently, I hope I am wrong though.

We have a chance vs Tenn because their offense sucks. But we suck on the road in recent memory so I am not that confident.

Your not wrong.

Problem is, when a team with an average QB plays us (Faid) they just run it down our throat. We play a rookie QB with a average RB and we allow the QB to light us up. Oakland is improving but are not ready for primetime yet (if ever). Cincy is rebuilding like us so we havent even hit the meat of our schedule yet.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-19-2011, 09:06 PM
Dont forget fumbling to give easy points to the other team.

He is an okay QB.

He would look good on a team with a great D.

I hate to be Captain Obvious but, what QB wouldn't?

In order for Orton to truly be a "good" QB, he needs:

- A defense that gives up 17 or less PPG regularly and makes early 3 and out stops which gives him good starting field position

- A solid running game that forces opposing defenses to respect his play action pass

- A top 10 offensive line that gives him 5+ seconds to set his feet and utilize proper mechanics so that he maintains accuracy and power

- A top WR with excellent hands and body control who can adjust appropriately to all his "back shoulder" (spoken: under thrown) passes and can make plays in the open field to gain YAC (Marshall, Lloyd).

Those are the things a team needs to be truly successful with Orton as their starting QB. If you look at the list, with the exception of the top 10 offensive line, we had all of them for the first six games of '09. Since then, we've been lacking and so Orton has failed.

Give Orton the above list and he can win more games than he loses - but like I asked above... what QB wouldn't???

MOtorboat
09-19-2011, 09:09 PM
Things Orton should be criticized for:

1.) He has to be better in the fourth quarter at sustaining drives. Part of it is the lack of production on first down, or penalties, but he has to do a better job of sustaining drives. He had two chances Sunday and didn't deliver. He hasn't made mistakes, but he hasn't made any plays, either. (BTW, his production in the 4th has been pretty good if you look at his splits thus far, just throwing that out there)

2.) The fumble. He's got to either get the ball away quicker, or he has to step up better and avoid that problem. The caveat, if people can even be remotely reasonable, is he has his top four receivers on the bench and for some inexplicable reason, Ryan Clady has become a sieve. That said, Orton has to be able to find a receiver in that situation who is covered, but there's still a window, and complete that pass. He struggles at putting the ball into tight windows when receivers are covered (which is why he should be commended for the comeback throw he made to Decker for the TD, but more on that later...).

3.) Two-minute offense with lead. Granted, I'd blame this more on McCoy for calling three straight running plays under two minutes to go in the first half, but I'd like to see Orton stand up to McCoy a little there. I know it's just the second game under a new coach, so both players and coaches are feeling each other's philosophies out, but I would have liked to see Orton recognize that that was a chance to stomp on Cincy's throat a little by trying to score a touchdown. That said, good players do trust their coaches.

Things that I won't call positives, but I'll call things to watch:

1.) 3rd Downs. He's thus far 5-8 for 62 yards and a touchdown, with no INTs on 3rd Down and less than nine yards. That's an improvement. A small sample size, for sure, but an improvement. Part of it is the scheme, because there are less passes, and part of it, thus far, is that the offense is moving the ball better.

2.) That throw to Decker on the comeback was a quarterback making a good play, no matter what any yahoo tells you. When a receiver who has a distinct height advantage is covered like that with the corner not looking back and the safety coming over the top, a quarterback needs to recognize that and throw that ball back shoulder. Orton bought time, recognized that and made the play. Anyone who tells you that was underthrown is looking for reasons to complain just to complain and isn't looking to have a reasonable conversation about Orton's play. (It's a brilliant argument, actually, and I do at least admire that, because if Orton had thrown it to the pylon, and it was most certainly knocked away, you could complain about him throwing into double coverage. So bravo on your "I can't be wrong" logic, that is a commendable debate tactic.)

Medford Bronco
09-19-2011, 09:13 PM
I hate to be Captain Obvious but, what QB wouldn't?

In order for Orton to truly be a "good" QB, he needs:

- A defense that gives up 17 or less PPG regularly and makes early 3 and out stops which gives him good starting field position

- A solid running game that forces opposing defenses to respect his play action pass

- A top 10 offensive line that gives him 5+ seconds to set his feet and utilize proper mechanics so that he maintains accuracy and power

- A top WR with excellent hands and body control who can adjust appropriately to all his "back shoulder" (spoken: under thrown) passes and can make plays in the open field to gain YAC (Marshall, Lloyd).

Those are the things a team needs to be truly successful with Orton as their starting QB. If you look at the list, with the exception of the top 10 offensive line, we had all of them for the first six games of '09. Since then, we've been lacking and so Orton has failed.

Give Orton the above list and he can win more games than he loses - but like I asked above... what QB wouldn't???

Tavaras Jackson
Charlie Whitehurst
Grabowski (sp) the backup on Cincy
McNabb lately

HORSEPOWER 56
09-19-2011, 09:19 PM
Tavaras Jackson I agree, he's horrible
Charlie Whitehurst You mean the guy that beat the Rams to win the division last year and secure a playoff spot in his only start? Whitehurst is Orton with mobility, he's overly cautious with the ball, but he can avoid a sack from time to time. The only reason he's not starting is because the O-coordinator wants Jackson who he had in Minny because he supposedly "knows the offense"
Grabowski (sp) the backup on Cincy Bruce Gradkowski - Didn't he lead a come from behind win vs the Browns on the road last week?
McNabb lately I agree. Man, how the mighty have fallen. McNabb doesn't even look interested anymore. He looks like Favre in his last year in Minny.

Still, is that a list of guys you'd like the Broncos' QB to stand up and be counted alongside? Yeah, me neither.

BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 10:40 PM
Things Orton should be criticized for:

1.) He has to be better in the fourth quarter at sustaining drives. Part of it is the lack of production on first down, or penalties, but he has to do a better job of sustaining drives. He had two chances Sunday and didn't deliver. He hasn't made mistakes, but he hasn't made any plays, either. (BTW, his production in the 4th has been pretty good if you look at his splits thus far, just throwing that out there)

2.) The fumble. He's got to either get the ball away quicker, or he has to step up better and avoid that problem. The caveat, if people can even be remotely reasonable, is he has his top four receivers on the bench and for some inexplicable reason, Ryan Clady has become a sieve. That said, Orton has to be able to find a receiver in that situation who is covered, but there's still a window, and complete that pass. He struggles at putting the ball into tight windows when receivers are covered (which is why he should be commended for the comeback throw he made to Decker for the TD, but more on that later...).

3.) Two-minute offense with lead. Granted, I'd blame this more on McCoy for calling three straight running plays under two minutes to go in the first half, but I'd like to see Orton stand up to McCoy a little there. I know it's just the second game under a new coach, so both players and coaches are feeling each other's philosophies out, but I would have liked to see Orton recognize that that was a chance to stomp on Cincy's throat a little by trying to score a touchdown. That said, good players do trust their coaches.

Things that I won't call positives, but I'll call things to watch:

1.) 3rd Downs. He's thus far 5-8 for 62 yards and a touchdown, with no INTs on 3rd Down and less than nine yards. That's an improvement. A small sample size, for sure, but an improvement. Part of it is the scheme, because there are less passes, and part of it, thus far, is that the offense is moving the ball better.

2.) That throw to Decker on the comeback was a quarterback making a good play, no matter what any yahoo tells you. When a receiver who has a distinct height advantage is covered like that with the corner not looking back and the safety coming over the top, a quarterback needs to recognize that and throw that ball back shoulder. Orton bought time, recognized that and made the play. Anyone who tells you that was underthrown is looking for reasons to complain just to complain and isn't looking to have a reasonable conversation about Orton's play. (It's a brilliant argument, actually, and I do at least admire that, because if Orton had thrown it to the pylon, and it was most certainly knocked away, you could complain about him throwing into double coverage. So bravo on your "I can't be wrong" logic, that is a commendable debate tactic.)

It doesn't hurt that the safety takes one of the worst angles in NFL history and wipes out the CB on the play either... I'm sure that was part of Orton's master plan on the play as well... :laugh:

As far as 3rd downs go, he HAS been better. I have a feeling that will change when we actually play good teams, but so far so good there.

2 minute offense. I think McCoy is conservative with Orton because he doesn't trust him that much. McCoy took over play-calling and Orton put up some of the worst games in QB history at KC and Arizona before he got benched, and then blamed it on undisclosed rib soreness, yet we see Tony Romo actually FRACTURE a rib on Sunday and come back in to lead a 10 point comeback in the 4th quarter... Over the past 6 games Orton has been average - AT BEST.

Fumbling... Not sure what to make of that. The wet ball is forgivable because it was a wet ball, but it came at the WORST possible time and of course Orton wasn't athletic enough to actually recover his own fumble in time. We'll see what happens on that front.

4th quarter drives. This is the one that kills me. Most of us have ZERO faith that Orton can win a close game in the 4th quarter even a fraction of the time. He might get lucky every now and then like last year at Tennessee, but overall he is the least clutch player I have ever seen play QB for the Broncos, possibly for anyone. He just folds like wet paper when the game is on the line. He was lucky that the defense stepped up this week because he did nothing in the last 2 or 3 drives against the Bungels and it would have been ugly if he was asked to lead a comeback.



But that's just it. You seem to want to accept mediocrity. This isn't a rookie, this is a 7th year pro. What is so hard to understand about that? You bash Tim Tebow every chance you get yet the offense SCORED MORE with him at QB last year than with Orton. It's just pathetic the lengths some will lower themselves to in a failed attempt at a point. In 7 years Orton has proven to be AVERAGE, in 3 games Tebow has proven that he can outscore Orton. That's just sad to me. There is no question, ZERO question that the Broncos need to move on from the failed Kyle Orton experiment.

chazoe60
09-19-2011, 10:49 PM
One thing about Orton that bugs the crap out of me is that he's really good at getting that score that takes us from two scores down to one score down, then he falls apart. And all that accomplishes is fooling people into saying "look he brought us to within a score"'.

We only have to deal with him for one more season, too bad it will end up being three seasons too many.

Slick
09-19-2011, 11:02 PM
I'll give you guys credit for making it until monday night before dragging the carcass back out of the closet again and beating it a few more times.

Deep down mo knows we arent going anywhere with kyle, he just like to get a rise out of you two. And you both never fail.

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BroncoStud
09-19-2011, 11:09 PM
I had some old Cutler games from 2007-2008 recorded and watched some of the plays this weekend. The offensive line was a mess then as well but Cutler routinely stepped up or moved the pocket around to buy time. He does it over and over again.

That is something Orton simply cannot and does not do. It's like having Jabba the Hut back there.

horsepig
09-19-2011, 11:54 PM
Orton is just insipid.

sneakers
09-20-2011, 12:26 AM
Didn't we beat Tennessee in Tennessee last year?

Northman
09-20-2011, 12:27 AM
Didn't we beat Tennessee in Tennessee last year?

Yep, but that was last year.

Lancane
09-20-2011, 01:58 AM
Didn't we beat Tennessee in Tennessee last year?

Yeah, that was a different team this is a whole new Titans' team and they spanked the Ravens like it was an S&M after party this weekend...a Baltimore team that made the Steelers look like a high school football squad the week before. I am not too optimistic about our chances. As I said in another thread, we might not see another win until November which would suck, but I can not lie that it's more then likely!

sneakers
09-20-2011, 03:56 AM
Yep, but that was last year.

And we are not better already than last year's Bronco team?

edit: I am just arguing for arguement's sake....trying to keep a little optimism going.

EastCoastBronco
09-20-2011, 06:55 AM
Things Orton should be criticized for:

2.) The fumble. He's got to either get the ball away quicker, or he has to step up better and avoid that problem. The caveat, if people can even be remotely reasonable, is he has his top four receivers on the bench and for some inexplicable reason, Ryan Clady has become a sieve. That said, Orton has to be able to find a receiver in that situation who is covered, but there's still a window, and complete that pass. He struggles at putting the ball into tight windows when receivers are covered (which is why he should be commended for the comeback throw he made to Decker for the TD, but more on that later...).




Not inexplicable at all.
Clady wants a change at QB as well and figures that if John Fox won't pull the trigger, he will...;-)

TXBRONC
09-20-2011, 07:05 AM
If Dalton can to that to our D what is one of the best Qbs in the league going to do.:confused:

SD owns us recently, I hope I am wrong though.

We have a chance vs Tenn because their offense sucks. But we suck on the road in recent memory so I am not that confident.

Not only that, Rogers will be playing at home.

MOtorboat
09-20-2011, 07:24 AM
Not inexplicable at all.
Clady wants a change at QB as well and figures that if John Fox won't pull the trigger, he will...;-)

Yeah, that must be it. :rolleyes:

TXBRONC
09-20-2011, 08:10 AM
Didn't we beat Tennessee in Tennessee last year?

Yes we did but one big difference is that Matt Hasselbeck will be their quarterback and not Vince Young. I'm not saying that means it's an automatic lose but he's a much quarterback than Young is.

muse
09-20-2011, 09:27 AM
Yes we did but one big difference is that Matt Hasselbeck will be their quarterback and not Vince Young. I'm not saying that means it's an automatic lose but he's a much quarterback than Young is.

True, but our awesome defensive unit whooped him last year.

TXBRONC
09-20-2011, 09:42 AM
True, but our awesome defensive unit whooped him last year.

This is also true but it was home game for us.

T.K.O.
09-20-2011, 10:49 AM
Nope. He is the same exact guy he always is. Flashes here and there, but nothing ever consistent. Everytime he is under pressure he folds like a pancake.

.

who "folds" pancakes?:confused::D

NightTerror218
09-20-2011, 12:35 PM
It doesn't hurt that the safety takes one of the worst angles in NFL history and wipes out the CB on the play either... I'm sure that was part of Orton's master plan on the play as well... :laugh:

As far as 3rd downs go, he HAS been better. I have a feeling that will change when we actually play good teams, but so far so good there.

2 minute offense. I think McCoy is conservative with Orton because he doesn't trust him that much. McCoy took over play-calling and Orton put up some of the worst games in QB history at KC and Arizona before he got benched, and then blamed it on undisclosed rib soreness, yet we see Tony Romo actually FRACTURE a rib on Sunday and come back in to lead a 10 point comeback in the 4th quarter... Over the past 6 games Orton has been average - AT BEST.

Fumbling... Not sure what to make of that. The wet ball is forgivable because it was a wet ball, but it came at the WORST possible time and of course Orton wasn't athletic enough to actually recover his own fumble in time. We'll see what happens on that front.

4th quarter drives. This is the one that kills me. Most of us have ZERO faith that Orton can win a close game in the 4th quarter even a fraction of the time. He might get lucky every now and then like last year at Tennessee, but overall he is the least clutch player I have ever seen play QB for the Broncos, possibly for anyone. He just folds like wet paper when the game is on the line. He was lucky that the defense stepped up this week because he did nothing in the last 2 or 3 drives against the Bungels and it would have been ugly if he was asked to lead a comeback.



But that's just it. You seem to want to accept mediocrity. This isn't a rookie, this is a 7th year pro. What is so hard to understand about that? You bash Tim Tebow every chance you get yet the offense SCORED MORE with him at QB last year than with Orton. It's just pathetic the lengths some will lower themselves to in a failed attempt at a point. In 7 years Orton has proven to be AVERAGE, in 3 games Tebow has proven that he can outscore Orton. That's just sad to me. There is no question, ZERO question that the Broncos need to move on from the failed Kyle Orton experiment.


I would argue that that pass to Decker was underthrown. Decker had to stop his route and come back for it. And to his luck the safety took out the corner. It worked out perfectly as it did. But i still say it was under thrown like many passes he has been throwing have been.

NightTerror218
09-20-2011, 12:49 PM
get orton the **** out of Denver so we can closer to the playoffs. As soon as we reach the playoffs and a home game I am going to by tickets for the family.

Jsteve01
09-20-2011, 12:50 PM
I would argue that that pass to Decker was underthrown. Decker had to stop his route and come back for it. And to his luck the safety took out the corner. It worked out perfectly as it did. But i still say it was under thrown like many passes he has been throwing have been.

Saftey playing over the top, from the qbs perspective if you throw the ball deep there's a better chance of it being picked. I can't say with 100% certainty that it was designed that way but Im pretty sure he threw it where he wanted to.

NightTerror218
09-20-2011, 12:53 PM
Saftey playing over the top, from the qbs perspective if you throw the ball deep there's a better chance of it being picked. I can't say with 100% certainty that it was designed that way but Im pretty sure he threw it where he wanted to.

I thought Decker had them both beat...dont know if the safety had the speed to catch Decker going deep. Reason he took out the CB was because they stopped and caught up.

But if you look at a majority of passes they were behind receivers. Both games.

GEM
09-20-2011, 12:54 PM
Saftey playing over the top, from the qbs perspective if you throw the ball deep there's a better chance of it being picked. I can't say with 100% certainty that it was designed that way but Im pretty sure he threw it where he wanted to.

That also comes from not going through progressions. He chooses a Receiver and locks on, and gets it in there even if it's into double coverage. Unfortunately we don't have a QB on this roster who has a clear understanding of going through progressions. If one guy is double covered, who is your next choice. Now, in the Raiders game, he didn't have time for progressions, but this past week he did have more time. Notice how Lloyd is the big time playmaker, then Decker is, it has a lot to do with locking on.

NightTerror218
09-20-2011, 01:01 PM
That also comes from not going through progressions. He chooses a Receiver and locks on, and gets it in there even if it's into double coverage. Unfortunately we don't have a QB on this roster who has a clear understanding of going through progressions. If one guy is double covered, who is your next choice. Now, in the Raiders game, he didn't have time for progressions, but this past week he did have more time. Notice how Lloyd is the big time playmaker, then Decker is, it has a lot to do with locking on.

From what i hear he stares them down. Like in the Raider game, he gave Llyod a knod before the snap and then threw it to him.