Cassius Vaughn...

[igoe4broncos]

Will hopefully never start at cornerback for the Denver Broncos again!

[BroncoStud]

Should be cut tomorrow.

[#24 Next Champ]

This is absolutely ridiculous...he is a rookie CB basically and has played very very well, that PI call against him was not a good call, and he made a gamble and almost got beat bad, but hey, you guys would be going crazy had he guessed right...it happens, this is just ridiculous

Goodman had a rough game, although not completely terrible like some people exaggerate and make it out to be, and same goes for Vaughn, not a great game, but he almost had a pick-six too, Green just made an excellent play, some people man....chill out he's a rookie

you wanna complain about someone, look at #8 the bum of all bums....I don't see ANYTHING that he does that Tebow can't do, seriously...Tebow can't throw 3 yd dumpoffs all day, that's why Orton is so much better? Seriously

[BroncoStud]

This is absolutely ridiculous...he is a rookie CB basically and has played very very well, that PI call against him was not a good call, and he made a gamble and almost got beat bad, but hey, you guys would be going crazy had he guessed right...it happens, this is just ridiculous

Goodman had a rough game, although not completely terrible like some people exaggerate and make it out to be, and same goes for Vaughn, not a great game, but he almost had a pick-six too, Green just made an excellent play, some people man....chill out he's a rookie

you wanna complain about someone, look at #8 the bum of all bums....I don't see ANYTHING that he does that Tebow can't do, seriously...Tebow can't throw 3 yd dumpoffs all day, that's why Orton is so much better? Seriously

Hi Cassius. :welcome:

[#24 Next Champ]

Hi Cassius. :welcome:

No, I just know good corners when I see them and have played and studied the hell outta the position...it's one of the toughest in the game and the kid has amazing upside...he's fast as hell can run with anyone, has good ball skills...he just didn't have a great game, but I actually like that he went for that gamble, that's how you make plays, you gotta go for it sometimes...n you gotta (as a fan or coach) understand to take the good with the bad

[BroncoStud]

No, I just know good corners when I see them and have played and studied the hell outta the position...it's one of the toughest in the game and the kid has amazing upside...he's fast as hell can run with anyone, has good ball skills...he just didn't have a great game, but I actually like that he went for that gamble, that's how you make plays, you gotta go for it sometimes...n you gotta (as a fan or coach) understand to take the good with the bad

Honestly, we've all seen them come through here. I don't see the ball skills you're speaking of. Today he looked like a guy that didn't belong in an NFL game. Now, he may have just played poorly and been off of his game, but with so little to go off of it's hard to believe this guy is going to be a great player. Some guys just seem to get it and some don't.

[igoe4broncos]

I don't like that he is going for the gamble when the Bengals are backed up in their own territory with the game on the line. Does he have upside? Maybe. But just because he is fast doesn't make him a good cornerback. I see him as a special teams ace at the most.

And that PI call was the right call. He had no sense of awareness and initiated contact with Green when he was going up for the ball. If he would've turned around and played the ball, it wouldn't have been called, but he didn't.

[Tned]

This is absolutely ridiculous...he is a rookie CB basically and has played very very well, that PI call against him was not a good call, and he made a gamble and almost got beat bad, but hey, you guys would be going crazy had he guessed right...it happens, this is just ridiculous

Goodman had a rough game, although not completely terrible like some people exaggerate and make it out to be, and same goes for Vaughn, not a great game, but he almost had a pick-six too, Green just made an excellent play, some people man....chill out he's a rookie

you wanna complain about someone, look at #8 the bum of all bums....I don't see ANYTHING that he does that Tebow can't do, seriously...Tebow can't throw 3 yd dumpoffs all day, that's why Orton is so much better? Seriously

I'm not jumping on Vaughn, just pointing out that he is nothing like a rookie. "maybe" when a player misses his entire first season with a TC injury, you might be able to claim that, but that's the only situation.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Impatient. He's a second year undrafted free agent, and this is his first game starting. He's a kid. What do you expect? Not to mention he was covering AJ Green most of the game.

[#24 Next Champ]

Well, I'm making my evaluations based off of ALL Preseason, and outside of the AZ game he looked terrific, and he played damn well against Oakland too...so seeing as today I think he was the least targeted corner who was covering their best WR much of the time, I'd say he played alright (actually scratch that) technically, Wilhite was the least targeted CB, and he had a great game

n before someone tries to twist that, yes he covered Green alot, n Green had success but mostt of Green's success came when he was lined up on Goodman, who had a rough game today

[JONtheBRONCO]

I agree, Goodman looks about done. I feel comfortable with Cassius, young player, appears eager, has his ups and downs, typical for a 2nd year guy. I do see some talent. Next year we're going to have to make a couple additions to the defensive backfield though, that's for sure.

[Clipworthy]

Cassius was the best corner out on the field today for Denver, how can people be saying "cut him"...?

[Timmy!]

he got abused all friggn game. no need to say he should be cut as we are obviously paper thin, but to say he played well is retarded. i miss squid already

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[Clipworthy]

he got abused all friggn game. no need to say he should be cut as we are obviously paper thin, but to say he played well is retarded. i miss squid already

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squid can't even play outside as a starter, he doesn't have the speed or the man coverage...as most know...

[Northman]

Like Timmy, does he need to be cut? No. But lets not proclaim him to be a HOF either.

[Nick]

lmao, cut him. replace him with who? Tebow? :laugh:

[Ziggy]

I like Cassius Vaughn. He had a rough day today, but he's been solid up until this game. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he just had a bad day.

[LTC Pain]

Chaulk it up to a "rough game" or however you want to spin it to help the tummy ache. CV stunk today. The receiver he was playing constantly got separation and several times got behind CV. Thankfully we were playing against a rookie QB tody. And today CV reminded me of Perrish Cox in that he would play the face of the receiver without looking back to play the ball. CB is about to pass DT on the "needs" list for the Broncos at the next draft. Move CV DOWN the depth chart please.

[Slick]

Move him down the depth chart?

That's a good one.

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[BeefStew25]

Guys, when backups start they get picked on. Sheesh.

[BroncoBowlby 88]

CV is a back up at best, and he played like an inexperienced back up should play, below average. He had good moments but they were overshadowed by him being out of place and allowing big plays. he is the 4th best CB on the roster

[I Eat Staples]

Will hopefully never play cornerback in the NFL again!

Fixed.

[sneakers]

Yes, the pass interferience against him was absolutely terrible!

[G_Money]

Is cornerback gonna be the new QB, as far as us comparing everyone to Champ? :huh:

Vaughn should be a nickel back. Currently he looks like the best CB on the field, which is an indictment of the healthy corners, yes.

If we spend a couple more draftpicks on corners in the draft without addressing the DL, though, I may lose my damn mind. Cassius will be okay for another year once Champ gets back on the field. Let him play, and learn. We're not having a losing season this year because of Cassius Vaughn.

Fix the OL and the DL. Corner can be addressed after. Besides, finish gettting a good pass rush so that Vaughn can play the ball like he wants to and he'll look way better.

Nothing will make the DL look better except better D-linemen.

~G

[MileHighCrew]

he's young and he'll be fine

[BigDaddyBronco]

Is cornerback gonna be the new QB, as far as us comparing everyone to Champ? :huh:

Vaughn should be a nickel back. Currently he looks like the best CB on the field, which is an indictment of the healthy corners, yes.

If we spend a couple more draftpicks on corners in the draft without addressing the DL, though, I may lose my damn mind. Cassius will be okay for another year once Champ gets back on the field. Let him play, and learn. We're not having a losing season this year because of Cassius Vaughn.

Fix the OL and the DL. Corner can be addressed after. Besides, finish gettting a good pass rush so that Vaughn can play the ball like he wants to and he'll look way better.

Nothing will make the DL look better except better D-linemen.

~G

If they continue to draft secondary and LB's and ignore DT's, I am going to go postal. I'm tired of watching our line get pushed back 2 or 3 yards at the beginning of every running play. If we didn't have such fast LB's and secondary, they would be even worse than the 28th ranked rushing defense.

[Northman]

If they continue to draft secondary and LB's and ignore DT's, I am going to go postal. I'm tired of watching our line get pushed back 2 or 3 yards at the beginning of every running play. If we didn't have such fast LB's and secondary, they would be even worse than the 28th ranked rushing defense.

Now you know how i felt about some people clamoring about drafting Peterson last year. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Like Timmy, does he need to be cut? No. But lets not proclaim him to be a HOF either.

Huh? Who is claiming anything close to that?

[BroncoStud]

Now you know how i felt about some people clamoring about drafting Peterson last year. :lol:

Patrick Peterson is going to be a STUD. I would have been estatic if we drafted him.

[BroncoWave]

And I have to SERIOUSLY question the football intelligence of anyone claiming we should cut Vaughn after yesterday. That is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on this board in quite some time. First of all, he was thrust into a role that he has NEVER done in the NFL before, in having to cover the other team's #1 guy. Second, he had to cover AJ Green which, as anyone who actually watched the game without blue and orange glasses would notice, is a pretty damn good WR. He was making sick catches and would have made many corners look foolish yesterday.

So calm down guys, I know some people on here like to overreact to everything, but cutting people every time they have a sub-par game is now how you improve a football team.

[Northman]

Patrick Peterson is going to be a STUD. I would have been estatic if we drafted him.

It has nothing to do whether or not he "might" be a stud. It has to do with this:


Originally Posted by BigDaddyBronco
If they continue to draft secondary and LB's and ignore DT's, I am going to go postal. I'm tired of watching our line get pushed back 2 or 3 yards at the beginning of every running play. If we didn't have such fast LB's and secondary, they would be even worse than the 28th ranked rushing defense.

[G_Money]

Skill position picks, last 3 years:

Defense -
Smith, CB
McBath, S
Bruton, S
Cox, CB
Thompson, CB
Miller, LB
Moore, S
Irving, LB
Carter, S
Mohamed, LB

Offense -
Moreno, RB
Quinn, TE (I know, he has no skills, but whatever)
McKinley, WR
Brandstater, QB
Thomas, WR
Tebow, QB
Decker, WR
Thomas, TE
Green, TE

Trench players, BOTH sides (and round drafted) -
1st - Ayers (ha ha ha), DE
4th - Olsen, G
7th - Schlueter, C
2nd - Beadles, bench (argh)
3rd - Walton, C
6th - Olsen, C
7th - Kirlew, DE/OLB (sorta)
2nd - Franklin, T (or better, G)
7th - Beal, DE/OLB/something

In the last 3 drafts we've picked ONE defensive lineman in the first 6 rounds of all the drafts combined.

In the same time we've drafted SEVEN defensive backs, 3 LBs (5 if you count the two 7th round hybrids), 3 WRs, 3 TEs, and 2 QBs.

Leave the DBs alone. Go get some meat.

~G

[BroncoWave]

Skill position picks, last 3 years:

Defense -
Smith, CB
McBath, S
Bruton, S
Cox, CB
Thompson, CB
Miller, LB
Moore, S
Irving, LB
Carter, S
Mohamed, LB

Offense -
Moreno, RB
Quinn, TE (I know, he has no skills, but whatever)
McKinley, WR
Brandstater, QB
Thomas, WR
Tebow, QB
Decker, WR
Thomas, TE
Green, TE

Trench players, BOTH sides (and round drafted) -
1st - Ayers (ha ha ha), DE
4th - Olsen, G
7th - Schlueter, C
2nd - Beadles, bench (argh)
3rd - Walton, C
6th - Olsen, C
7th - Kirlew, DE/OLB (sorta)
2nd - Franklin, T (or better, G)
7th - Beal, DE/OLB/something

In the last 3 drafts we've picked ONE defensive lineman in the first 6 rounds of all the drafts combined.

In the same time we've drafted SEVEN defensive backs, 3 LBs (5 if you count the two 7th round hybrids), 3 WRs, 3 TEs, and 2 QBs.

Leave the DBs alone. Go get some meat.

~G

G, I normally respect your draft posts but picking a player at a certain position just for the sake of picking a player at that position is not very smart. That's a good way to waste a high draft pick on a crappy player.

[Northman]

G, I normally respect your draft posts but picking a player at a certain position just for the sake of picking a player at that position is not very smart. That's a good way to waste a high draft pick on a crappy player.

He didnt say anything about just taking "any" player. Last year the draft was DEEP with DT's and we passed on many.

[BroncoWave]

He didnt say anything about just taking "any" player. Last year the draft was DEEP with DT's and we passed on many.

Given that we don't have access to EFX's draft board, there is no way of knowing if they considered any of those DT's on the board at our picks worthy of being picked there. Besides; Miller, Moore, and Frankin all look to be pretty solid picks thus far. When you are as talent depleted as we are, you take the best players wherever you can get them, regardless of what position they play. Rebuilding doesn't happen in one year. I know people like to jump off a cliff when every position of need isn't filled instantly, but I'm willing to have patience.

[Northman]

Given that we don't have access to EFX's draft board, there is no way of knowing if they considered any of those DT's on the board at our picks worthy of being picked there. Besides; Miller, Moore, and Frankin all look to be pretty solid picks thus far. When you are as talent depleted as we are, you take the best players wherever you can get them, regardless of what position they play. Rebuilding doesn't happen in one year. I know people like to jump off a cliff when every position of need isn't filled instantly, but I'm willing to have patience.

No one is jumping off a cliff. But when you ignore a particular position for over 5 years its a pattern that some people dont like to see. People have been patient and so far it hasnt paid off. As to Miller, yea, he looks great but Dareus was ranked high as well and could of easily been taken and most likely would of made a lot of people happy. Especially considering that McFadden ran all over our asses (and Millers) when it mattered most towards the end of the game. Rome wasnt built in a day, but you cant build a castle using paper bags either.

[BroncoWave]

No one is jumping off a cliff. But when you ignore a particular position for over 5 years its a pattern that some people dont like to see. People have been patient and so far it hasnt paid off. As to Miller, yea, he looks great but Dareus was ranked high as well and could of easily been taken and most likely would of made a lot of people happy. Especially considering that McFadden ran all over our asses (and Millers) when it mattered most towards the end of the game. Rome wasnt built in a day, but you cant build a castle using paper bags either.

This regime is not the same one as the ones the previous four years. It is wholly unfair to lump them all together and claim that we have ignored DT for the past 5 years. Now if a year or two from now EFX has still ignored DT in the draft then you will have a more valid point, but right now it is quite unfair to level that claim against them.

[Northman]

This regime is not the same one as the ones the previous four years. It is wholly unfair to lump them all together and claim that we have ignored DT for the past 5 years. Now if a year or two from now EFX has still ignored DT in the draft then you will have a more valid point, but right now it is quite unfair to level that claim against them.


It is when they come in knowing what the problems are. If i joe blow fan can see where our biggest weakness is than i have to believe they do too or at least hope so. Just because so and so before them ignored it doesnt mean they should do the same.

[BroncoWave]

It is when they come in knowing what the problems are. If i joe blow fan can see where our biggest weakness is than i have to believe they do too or at least hope so. Just because so and so before them ignored it doesnt mean they should do the same.

If DT was our only problem, you would have a point. But this team has holes EVERYWHERE and every draft pick they made helped to fill a need. There are only so many picks in a draft, you can't fill every need in one year.

And I never said they should ignore DT because the other regimes have. I said the failures of past regimes should not be attributed to this one, and they should be given time to perform a complete rebuild. Try to stay with my argument.

[Northman]

If DT was our only problem, you would have a point. But this team has holes EVERYWHERE and every draft pick they made helped to fill a need. There are only so many picks in a draft, you can't fill every need in one year.

No shit sherlock. But, when you have a draft that is very deep at one of those positions and you ignore it entirely i see (and some others) see that as a bad sign.


And I never said they should ignore DT because the other regimes have. I said the failures of past regimes should not be attributed to this one, and they should be given time to perform a complete rebuild. Try to stay with my argument.

I never said that past regimes where their fault. Try to stay with my arguement here.

[BroncoWave]

No shit sherlock. But, when you have a draft that is very deep at one of those positions and you ignore it entirely i see (and some others) see that as a bad sign.

Without seeing their draft board, it would be unfair to claim how deep they though the draft was at the position. Just because it's the opinion of you or analysts who don't have jobs in the NFL doesn't make it fact.

[Northman]

Without seeing their draft board, it would be unfair to claim how deep they though the draft was at the position. Just because it's the opinion of you or analysts who don't have jobs in the NFL doesn't make it fact.

And you are? :lol:

Ummm ok.

[BroncoWave]

And you are? :lol:

Ummm ok.

And I am what? I've never claimed how strong or weak I thought the DL class was. I'm simply saying it's unfair to bash them for passing on DL in what you think was a DL heavy draft without knowing their opinion on the quality of DL in the draft. Once again, please try to follow my argument.

[Northman]

And I am what? I've never claimed how strong or weak I thought the DL class was. I'm simply saying it's unfair to bash them for passing on DL in what you think was a DL heavy draft without knowing their opinion on the quality of DL in the draft. Once again, please try to follow my argument.

Who's bashing? :lol:

[Jsteve01]

Patrick Peterson is going to be a STUD. I would have been estatic if we drafted him.

lmao he got eaten up by AJ Green an Julio Jones last year. no different that Cassius yesterday.

So you weren't ecstatic about Von Miller?

[BroncoWave]

Who's bashing? :lol:

Oh so now it's an argument of semantics I see. Guess you realized you couldn't defend your stance with anything solid.

[G_Money]

It's not about a certain position.

If you have your LB corps stocked already, then you don't draft more LBs - you've got enough.

We drafted all these DBs after going out in FA and adding Dawkins, and Goodman, and Hill. Amazingly, it's STILL failed to produce a full defensive backfield so far.

You're right, you don't just say, "hey, I need a DT so get me anybody" but if there ARE good DTs out there you might wanna look at one if you've already got DBs by the handful to sort through.

I don't have a problem with drafting skill positions and using trades or FA to address the trenches. I do have a problem with drafting skill positions and either ignoring or giving a casual backhanded half-attempt at fixing the lines.

The former says you have a philosophy for where to grow talent internally vs. how to harness it via FA. Whether I agree or disagree with it, it's still a philosophy I can understand and that could work.

The latter says that skill positions are far more important and lines can be put together from scraps due to their secondary importance.

And I can't agree with the latter.

~G

[Northman]

Oh so now it's an argument of semantics I see. Guess you realized you couldn't defend your stance with anything solid.

I defended it fine. But your getting all defensive about people expressing their opinions on a messageboard. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

I defended it fine. But your getting all defensive about people expressing their opinions on a messageboard. :lol:

Where was I defensive?

[Jsteve01]

He didnt say anything about just taking "any" player. Last year the draft was DEEP with DT's and we passed on many.

Correction. We passed on Dareus and then there was a huge run on tackles. We wanted Jenkins and Ballard both of whom went before our picks.

The guys I liked with second round or lower grades were Jenkins, Paea, Austin, and Ellis.

as stated before Jenkins went before our pick, Paea Austin and Ellis all had big red flags. Two for character and one for injury. Bad teams can't afford to take fliers with early round picks. Paea has hardly seen the field. Ellis may be deported, and Austin is out with an ACL. So in hindsight although I would have liked a tackle as well, we did pretty good.

[Northman]

Where was I defensive?

Alright, whatever dude. This is going nowhere. You see it one way, i see it another based upon the history of this football club. But the bottom line is neither of us KNOWS anything that goes beyond the Dove Valley doors. They could know what they are doing or they could be complete idiots. For me, i see the same ol' same ol' in terms of addressing a particular need on this team.

[Northman]

Correction. We passed on Dareus and then there was a huge run on tackles. We wanted Jenkins and Ballard both of whom went before our picks.

The guys I liked with second round or lower grades were Jenkins, Paea, Austin, and Ellis.

as stated before Jenkins went before our pick, Paea Austin and Ellis all had big red flags. Two for character and one for injury. Bad teams can't afford to take fliers with early round picks. Paea has hardly seen the field. Ellis may be deported, and Austin is out with an ACL. So in hindsight although I would have liked a tackle as well, we did pretty good.

Well, still early to say we did good.

[Jsteve01]

Well, still early to say we did good.

we filled two other glaring needs. RT and saftey. Again with the caveat that horrible teams shouldn't take early round fliers on guys with red flags.

[G_Money]

Except I don't think RT is filled. G might be filled once we move him.

If Tebow becomes QB, then we REALLY haven't filled RT. Still, I like Franklin's toughness and think he WILL be a starter for us - just not at tackle long-term.

As far as character, I'm okay with taking good guys and not character issues early on when you're building your team.

When you have to re-do vast sections of recent drafts because they failed so miserably, it's hard to get everything.

But at some point, that glaring need on the DL is gonna have to be addressed too, through the draft or otherwise.

~G

[Jsteve01]

Except I don't think RT is filled. G might be filled once we move him.

If Tebow becomes QB, then we REALLY haven't filled RT. Still, I like Franklin's toughness and think he WILL be a starter for us - just not at tackle long-term.

As far as character, I'm okay with taking good guys and not character issues early on when you're building your team.

When you have to re-do vast sections of recent drafts because they failed so miserably, it's hard to get everything.

But at some point, that glaring need on the DL is gonna have to be addressed too, through the draft or otherwise.

~G

Oh it definitely has to be addressed with youth not older guys but Bunkley has looked good and if we can get Thomas back, that changes the whole complexion of this line.

[slim]

Oh it definitely has to be addressed with youth not older guys but Bunkley has looked good and if we can get Thomas back, that changes the whole complexion of this line.

Why would you have faith in Thomas?

He hasn't really shown much the last few years.

[BeefStew25]

Why would you have faith in Thomas?

He hasn't really shown much the last few years.

I think Holy Diver told me Thomas will do better in a 4-3 vs a 3-4.

[Jsteve01]

Why would you have faith in Thomas?

He hasn't really shown much the last few years.

Thomas more than anyone on this roster has been hurt by the constant rotation between schemes. NT/space eater has never played to his strengths. In this defense, Allen allows the tackles to play one gap and get after the offensive backfield. I'm not guaranteeing a pro bowl year by any means but let's be real. Would you rather see him out there or McBean/ Unrein?

He was also our most consisten linemen last year all the while playing out of position at NT or 5 tech.

[slim]

Thomas more than anyone on this roster has been hurt by the constant rotation between schemes. NT/space eater has never played to his strengths. In this defense, Allen allows the tackles to play one gap and get after the offensive backfield. I'm not guaranteeing a pro bowl year by any means but let's be real. Would you rather see him out there or McBean/ Unrein?

He was also our most consisten linemen last year all the while playing out of position at NT or 5 tech.

Well, I hope you are right.

BTW, Goodman was the worst CB on the field last week. So this thread is uber ghey.

[TXBRONC]

Well, I hope you are right.

BTW, Goodman was the worst CB on the field last week. So this thread is uber ghey.

I agree that Goodman didn't look very good last week.

[BroncoNut]

North and BTB, go have your catfight elsewhere. Now on the topic of Vaughn

he has lights out speed it seems to me.

[slim]

I agree that Goodman didn't look very good last week.

He didn't look all that good week one, either.

[TXBRONC]

He didn't look all that good week one, either.

No he sure didn't. :tsk:

They will all have a chance to look better if Dumervil can get healthy enough to be back out on the field with Miller.

[slim]

No he sure didn't. :tsk:

They will all have a chance to look better if Dumervil can get healthy enough to be back out on the field with Miller.

I hope so. The pass rush hasn't been pretty disappointing so far. Granted Doom got hurt early in week one, but I still expect more than we are getting.

[horsepig]

G, I normally respect your draft posts but picking a player at a certain position just for the sake of picking a player at that position is not very smart. That's a good way to waste a high draft pick on a crappy player.

For ****'s sake BB. Build up front!