A Modern Day Cinderella Story: starring Tebow and Elway

[Jagsbch]

Orton has had 7 turnovers in his last 3 games.

Ratings of
46.3
27.1
71.3

Where is the stability in sacks inside the 5, fumbles on crucial drives, ints, balls thrown in the grass at the feet of receivers, locking onto receivers while others are wide open... If anything needs to be tweaked due to being weak it is this.

Tebow had a nearly 3 TDs and 300 yard average in his first three starts as a rookie, his last 3 games.

Tebow being a threat to unseat Elway as the be all end all of Broncos fan lore, has Elway unseating Tebow. Turnabout fair play?

Elway betrays Mcd's trust by getting him fired, then takes over the team, and treats McD's young upstart as if he was a redheaded step child, unworthy of going to the ball, this all the meanwhile sending Orton to the ball. Pun intended. :salute:

Imagine the coach we could have brought in using the 9 Million and the millions spent on Fox~!!

Its too bad Elway wanted to have so much control of the team, to the point of getting turn down for interviews, not to mention turned down by Good Coaches to the point of being forced to settle for a coach who actually had a worst season than the one he had fired: if that was even possible. :tsk:

To make matters worse Elway lords over Tebow after every practice torturing him by being forced to subject himself to the very person responsible for placing him at the end of the bench, responsible for making him helpless in watching his teams demise, rubbing salt in the wounds, wounds that Elway was afraid to possess by the threat of Tebow unseating Elway as the all time King of denver Broncos Football.

Elway has taken the role of Ceaser, and he is currently in an attempt to kill the heir to the throne. This while all the meanwhile the fans are getting a first hand view with front row seats to the bloodbath as a result, and despite all the chants for Tebow, Elway holds the bridal tight on Fox, putting the breaks on giving Tebow any opportunity whatsoever to save the day.

[claymore]

Tebow is a big fat hairy flop. He will never be the Broncos starting QB for a full season. Go away. /thread

[MOtorboat]

:pound:

[threefolddead]

I've stayed out of the Tebow threads but the honest truth is Tebow put life into this team last year. He made play and put points on the board. With the way Orton has been playing I have no problem putting Tebow in. Lets see what we got. I saw three games last year that Tebow played in and that is not enough for anyone to say that Tebow is not the answer. I've seen enough games from Orton though to say that it is time to move on.

[Dirk]

Jags - That is quite the conspiracy even for you.


Have you thought that Elway "lords" over Tebow because he actually believes in him and is trying to make him better?

[SOCALORADO.]

http://limitedplaymakers.com/uploads/Andrew-Luck.jpg

[The Glue Factory]

Or lord! Can we ban him again?? I just about puked all over my workstation when I read this...


Tebow being a threat to unseat Elway as the be all end all of Broncos fan lore...

[UnderArmour]

Relax. Tebow is still the future but if he goes out there and isn't smart with the way he lays his body on the line he'll only get himself hurt. That's the real reason Orton is starting; he is a better pocket passer. We want Tebow to improve in that AND THEN he can do the Favre and Roethlisburger extension of plays. Mobile QBs don't play at a high level if they only resort to their legs early on until they can play the pocket. Steve Young, Vince Young, and Michael Vick off the top of my head are examples of this. We need Tebow to run as a last resort, not as a 2nd resort, 3rd resort, or 4th resort(depending on receiving options). As he wises up as a QB he will get a chance. Fox and Elway know they have to start Tebow at some point. Be patient.

[vandammage13]

A little over the top Jags....

However, I do get the feeling that Elway's ego has a problem with there being someone on the roster who has the potential to become more popular than him...

[Mike]

:slowly backs out of thread:

[Northman]

Fiction is fun.

[BigDaddyBronco]

http://limitedplaymakers.com/uploads/Andrew-Luck.jpg

He has to end up as a Bronco next year. He's ugly like Elway and can ball out of control. It's destiny.

Or we get Kellen Moore since he has the same teeth-gums thing like Elway.

[BroncoNut]

He has to end up as a Bronco next year. He's ugly like Elway and can ball out of control. It's destiny.

Or we get Kellen Moore since he has the same teeth-gums thing like Elway.

I never considered Elway ugly. Is he?

[BigDaddyBronco]

I never considered Elway ugly. Is he?

Just his mouth.

[SOCALORADO.]

he has to end up as a bronco next year. He's ugly like elway and can ball out of control. It's destiny.

Or we get kellen moore since he has the same teeth-gums thing like elway.

suck4luck

[BigDaddyBronco]

suck4luck

If we play like we did Monday night all year, we have a real chance.

[SOCALORADO.]

If we play like we did Monday night all year, we have a real chance.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/01/06/t1larg.andrew.luck.gi.jpg

[camdisco24]

Cool story, Bro.

[BroncoStud]

No conspiracy, we are just inept in all phases as an organization. We didn't address either line in the offseason and we absolutely created a spectacle at the QB position worthy of a Jim Mora clip.

On top of that we kept a GM who oversaw the destruction of the roster and hired a coach who won 2 f'ing games last year.

WTF is going on at Dove Valley these days. Total debacle. I can't wait until this organization pulls it's head out of it's ass.

[SOCALORADO.]

No conspiracy, we are just inept in all phases as an organization. We didn't address either line in the offseason and we absolutely created a spectacle at the QB position worthy of a Jim Mora clip.

On top of that we kept a GM who oversaw the destruction of the roster and hired a coach who won 2 f'ing games last year.

WTF is going on at Dove Valley these days. Total debacle. I can't wait until this organization pulls it's head out of it's ass.

Elway is currently pulling the head out, but JMD had pushed it really, really far up there, so its gonna take some time.
So sit back and relax.
Enjoy the NFL season in general, stop expecting victories and more QB drama, cause it aint happening this year, and just know that the plan will go into full effect as the season closes.

[BroncoStud]

Elway is currently pulling the head out, but JMD had pushed it really, really far up there, so its gonna take some time.
So sit back and relax.
Enjoy the NFL season in general, stop expecting victories and more QB drama, cause it aint happening this year, and just know that the plan will go into full effect as the season closes.

I'm the one who has openly advocated tanking the season for Luck. I would take 0-16 for a year and landing a franchise QB as opposed to 5-11 and not.

The last thing I expected this year were wins and I'm ok with losing, but I'm sick of losing watching Dumbo the QB waltz around the field with his beer gut while defensive lineman laugh as they arm tackle him.

[SOCALORADO.]

I'm the one who has openly advocated tanking the season for Luck. I would take 0-16 for a year and landing a franchise QB as opposed to 5-11 and not.

The last thing I expected this year were wins and I'm ok with losing, but I'm sick of losing watching Dumbo the QB waltz around the field with his beer gut while defensive lineman laugh as they arm tackle him.

All's i can say is get used to it for 1 more season.
And then.....
http://cdn.everyjoe.com/files/2011/01/andrew-luck-stanford.jpg

[Northman]

All's i can say is get used to it for 1 more season.
And then.....
http://www2.scnow.com/mgmedia/image/500/0/213207/stephen-garcia/

Fixed it for ya champ. :D

[SOCALORADO.]

Fixed it for ya champ. :D

They do have cool unis bro. You know if LA gets a team, they should use that color scheme, if they change the name and logo of the team that its.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Jag.. I back the idea that we should put Tebow in soon to find out...
I think it is inevitable the way the team and Orton played Monday...
but DANG, SON!

This crazy story you spin makes me think you need to
board the bus for Cazytown... with a stop on Conspiracy Street.

You left out the part about the Black Helicopters...

[BroncoNut]

Jag.. I back the idea that we should put Tebow in soon to find out...
I think it is inevitable the way the team and Orton played Monday...
but DANG, SON!

This crazy story you spin makes me think you need to
board the bus for Cazytown... with a stop on Conspiracy Street.

You left out the part about the Black Helicopters...

Jags needs another shot of Lithium

[PAINTERDAVE]

If we play like we did Monday night all year, we have a real chance.

Naw.. we will win just enough to lose out on Luck...

I think Indy is gonna tank on purpose..
they will become experts at making it look real.
as they lose lose lose

ACTING!

[Nomad]

Tebow is a big fat hairy flop. He will never be the Broncos starting QB for a full season. Go away. /thread

If he sucks.....you'll get your 'Luck'.;) It's a win-win for you.

[BroncoNut]

why does everyone like Luck so much? he sounds like a bust waiting to happen to me. mo, my football Yoda, chime in on this one please.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

A little over the top Jags....

However, I do get the feeling that Elway's ego has a problem with there being someone on the roster who has the potential to become more popular than him...

WHAT a ridiculous statement in regards to Elway - so you believe that John took the position with the organization to PROTECT HIS POPULARITY - UNBELIEVABLE

John took the position as he TRULY bleeds blue and orange - UNLIKE some posters on here.

[Nomad]

why does everyone like Luck so much? he sounds like a bust waiting to happen to me. mo, my football Yoda, chime in on this one please.

Ryan Leaf had the same hype but I'm sure Luck is more level headed!

[BroncoNut]

Ryan Leaf had the same hype but I'm sure Luck is more level headed!

I would think so. Frau met Leaf and said he was the biggest ass she had ever met. Keep in mind, she said this AFTER she met both me and Hoe. that's saying something

[Nomad]

I would think so. Frau met Leaf and said he was the biggest ass she had ever met. Keep in mind, she said this AFTER she met both me and Hoe. that's saying something

I watched him in college and he was pretty good.

[Slick]

Agreed carol. Dude is way off base with that.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Cugel]

Orton has had 7 turnovers in his last 3 games. . . . blah, blah, blah. Splutter, wheeze, bleat.

That was worth an award as the stupidest thread on this entire site! And there was some stiff competition. But, "Elway conspiracy theory" has to rank #1.

Elway is against Tebow because Tebow is so certain to surpass Elway's accomplishments in going to five SBs that Elway is jealous!

Elway got McDaniels fired! (Actually Elway secretly mesmerized McMoron into commiting Spygate II and then trying to order his coaches to cover it all up. Elway was secretly responsible for all McMoron's draft picks too! And he got him to lose 17 games as well!)

Who would have guessed?

Elway's secret identity is now exposed!:

http://sjaejones.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/whiplash.png
He's secretly Snidely Whiplash!

[Cugel]

P.S. -- Just noticed the initial post also has the most hilarious misspelling ever: "Elway holds the bridal tight on Fox." Sounds vaguely dirty to me! :laugh:

bridal:
http://weddingweb.ru/wp-content/uploads/weddingweb/diadema/thumbs/thumbs_33.jpg

bridle:

http://img.ehowcdn.co.uk/article-page-main/ehow/images/a04/cf/98/horse-bridles-800x800.jpg

[vandammage13]

WHAT a ridiculous statement in regards to Elway - so you believe that John took the position with the organization to PROTECT HIS POPULARITY - UNBELIEVABLE

John took the position as he TRULY bleeds blue and orange - UNLIKE some posters on here.

Don't question my fandom...

There is no doubt that Elway has a serious ego, otherwise he would have never been a Bronco in the first place.

[claymore]

Don't question my fandom...

There is no doubt that Elway has a serious ego, otherwise he would have never been a Bronco in the first place.

He was the master of his own destiny. He was drafted in 2 sports. Would you take a job in a city that you didnt want to live in if you didnt have too?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Don't question my fandom...

There is no doubt that Elway has a serious ego, otherwise he would have never been a Bronco in the first place.

Do you have a guilty conscience? - I did not specifically state you - I stated unlike some posters on here.

[GEM]

Shut yo mouth, son!!

Don't you ever talk about John Elway. You don't know John Elway. You don't look at John Elway. And you certainly wouldn't condescend to cheer for John Elway. So you just stick to the things you know: Tebow, black helicopters, Urban Meyer's dirty laundry, and your University of Florida freaking Gators.


:D Name that movie.

[vandammage13]

Do you have a guilty conscience? - I did not specifically state you - I stated unlike some posters on here.

You were responding to my post...

I can read between the lines.

[vandammage13]

He was the master of his own destiny. He was drafted in 2 sports. Would you take a job in a city that you didnt want to live in if you didnt have too?

I'm not blaming Elway for doing it...I'm glad he did. More power to him.

Just saying his ego played a role in that...

That is all.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

You were responding to my post...

I can read between the lines.

You can read between the lines all you want - only you know if you fall in that category, or not.

[slim]

Shut yo mouth, son!!

Don't you ever talk about John Elway. You don't know John Elway. You don't look at John Elway. And you certainly wouldn't condescend to cheer for John Elway. So you just stick to the things you know: Tebow, black helicopters, Urban Meyer's dirty laundry, and your University of Florida freaking Gators.


:D Name that movie.

You think he's funny? You think this is cute? You think he's "bitchin," is that it?

Let me tell you something. Look at him - he's a bum.

You want to see something funny? You go visit jagsbich in five years. You'll see how goddamned funny he is.

[claymore]

I'm not blaming Elway for doing it...I'm glad he did. More power to him.

Just saying his ego played a role in that...

That is all.

I have declined jobs in states I didnt want to live in. It had nothing to do with my ego, it had to do with what was best for me my family, and my career.

[Nomad]

You think he's funny? You think this is cute? You think he's "bitchin," is that it?

Let me tell you something. Look at him - he's a bum.

You want to see something funny? You go visit jagsbich in five years. You'll see how goddamned funny he is.

Alright, Alfred!:lol:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I have declined jobs in states I didnt want to live in. It had nothing to do with my ego, it had to do with what was best for me my family, and my career.

Clay please - you should have learned by now that "common sense" does not work with some - they believe what they want to believe :eek:

[The Glue Factory]

I'm not blaming Elway for doing it...I'm glad he did. More power to him.

Just saying his ego played a role in that...

That is all.

Uh no. Jack Elway (John's father) advised him not to play for Irsay (owner of the Baltimore Colts, the team that drafted Elway) due to a "feud" between Jack and Kush (HC of the Colts at that time.) Kush was known as a very hard coach to play for.


But people still don`t understand that the city of Baltimore had nothing to do with my decision. It was the Colt organization I didn`t want to play for. (emphasis mine)

Sun Sentinel 1985 (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1985-09-27/news/8502110389_1_john-albert-elway-broncos-reading-defenses)

[vandammage13]

You can read between the lines all you want - only you know if you fall in that category, or not.

Ok...I guess when you directly quote one of my posts I should assume you are talking to someone else.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Uh no. Jack Elway (John's father) advised him not to play for Irsay (owner of the Baltimore Colts, the team that drafted Elway) due to a "feud" between Jack and Kush (HC of the Colts at that time.) Kush was known as a very hard coach to play for.

(emphasis mine)

Sun Sentinel 1985 (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1985-09-27/news/8502110389_1_john-albert-elway-broncos-reading-defenses)

Thanks for posting, and some VERY interesting things in that article which the Tebow fanatics should pay attention to, as far as wanting the Broncos to immediately throw Tebow on the field. Who better than Elway to know when Tebow is ready, based on what Elway went thru.

From article:


Remember all those stories? John Elway, the greatest collegiate quarterback ever. John Elway, the Stanford Sensation. John Elway, a sure thing in the pros. There was nothing he couldn`t accomplish, no pass too difficult to complete.

``They built me up to be a Superman, someone who could walk on water,`` Elway said.

Then came his rookie season with the Broncos and all those press clippings looked like false advertising. There were twice as many interceptions (14) as touchdown passes. There was one awful throw after another.

Bluntly: Elway bombed.

Pushed into a starting job, he was confused, scared and looked more like an All-Con than an All-Pro.

``He was memorizing things instead of learning them,`` coach Dan Reeves said. ``I made a mistake. I put him in there before he was ready. He wasn`t comfortable. After about the fifth game, I realized what I had done.``

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1985-09-27/news/8502110389_1_john-albert-elway-broncos-reading-defenses

[Lancane]

Fiction is fun.

Somebody has read one too many John Grisham novels! :lol:

[zbeg]

I have declined jobs in states I didnt want to live in. It had nothing to do with my ego, it had to do with what was best for me my family, and my career.

Did you enter into an agreement where you would put into a pool of potential employers and by going into that pool, agree to go wherever the employer's job is based?

If you did, then you went back on your word.

[Nomad]

I have declined jobs in states I didnt want to live in. It had nothing to do with my ego, it had to do with what was best for me my family, and my career.

And you chose El Paso:shocked:.....I wouldn't move their even if it made me a multi-millionaire.....but that's me! Do you ever get together with JR?:)

[The Glue Factory]

Thanks for posting, and some VERY interesting things in that article which the Tebow fanatics should pay attention to, as far as wanting the Broncos to immediately throw Tebow on the field. Who better than Elway to know when Tebow is ready, based on what Elway went thru.


You can actually argue for throwing Tebow in now since he sat for almost all of his rookie season and actually had limited playing time before starting at the end of last season. He did not bomb in the games he started like Elway did in his rookie year. It looks like Tebow is more ready to start now than Elway was when he was thrust into starting.


In the end Elway pretty much what he was built up to be - QB GOAT

[SOCALORADO.]

And you chose El Paso:shocked:.....I wouldn't move their even if it made me a multi-millionaire.....but that's me! Do you ever get together with JR?:)

El Paso.............spent a month there one night.

[Northman]

You can actually argue for throwing Tebow in now since he sat for almost all of his rookie season and actually had limited playing time before starting at the end of last season. He did not bomb in the games he started like Elway did in his rookie year. It looks like Tebow is more ready to start now than Elway was when he was thrust into starting.


In the end Elway pretty much what he was built up to be - QB GOAT


Good post and certainly a valid one.

My only contention is i dont mind if they want Tebow to sit. Just so as long as we arent shopping for QB's in the first round next year. If Elway thinks that its too soon to put Tebow in but still wants him for the future im ok with that.

[Nomad]

Good post and certainly a valid one.

My only contention is i dont mind if they want Tebow to sit. Just so as long as we arent shopping for QB's in the first round next year. If Elway thinks that its too soon to put Tebow in but still wants him for the future im ok with that.

Yep but we all know if Denver is in the top 5, Tebow won't get his chance....well at least not for the BRONCOS!

[Northman]

Yep but we all know if Denver is in the top 5, Tebow won't get his chance....well at least not for the BRONCOS!

Who knows. There was a rumor Denver was looking at QB's this past year. I think a lot of that is just smoke and mirrors to get teams to panic. I wouldnt be surprised if next draft Denver trades down to stockpile some picks. If they are interested in a QB at all its a very deep pool so why not take advantage of it?

[Nomad]

Who knows. There was a rumor Denver was looking at QB's this past year. I think a lot of that is just smoke and mirrors to get teams to panic. I wouldnt be surprised if next draft Denver trades down to stockpile some picks. If they are interested in a QB at all its a very deep pool so why not take advantage of it?

Yeah, I'm assuming . I could see Denver trading back and if they go that route, though I'm not a big fan of his, my gut is telling me they'll give Kellen Moore a call in the 2nd rd......hopefully it's gas!

[underrated29]

Now I know I tried as hard as I could to forget about last year so maybe I am way off........


Elway betrayed jMFmcd trust?- Elways was not part of the organization then!?!?! WTF?- Right? or did I forget the timeline?

2.- Elway fired Mcd and looks down on his players....Uhhh same thing as above. Elways signed on officially to the best of my knowledge after Our season was over. After the superbowl I think.

Elway was never around Jmfmcd.




What a stupid article. But im with ya that id rather see tebow play then kyle.

[The Glue Factory]

What a stupid article.

It wasn't an article. Something Jagsb**ch slopped together out of the pigsty form his neighbors yard. I think he was eating shrooms though. ;)

[I Eat Staples]

Sup Jags I missed you.

[John Bad Elk]

What do the Broncos gain with Kyle Orton starting as QB? Another season without post season participation.

[BroncoNut]

What do the Broncos gain with Kyle Orton starting as QB? Another season without post season participation.

I think that is probably true, but he is the best qb we have at this time

[John Bad Elk]

I think that is probably true, but he is the best qb we have at this time

How do you know he is the best QB?

[BroncoNut]

How do you know he is the best QB?

he won the job apparently.

[I Eat Staples]

How do you know he is the best QB?

Because the other two are scrubs.

[BroncoNut]

Because the other two are scrubs.

apparently. hey IES. why is the horse's crotch in your avy blue/grey?

[John Bad Elk]

he won the job apparently.

It is all subjective, I do not understand how Tebow cannot be an integral cog in the Bronco's key to success now and more importantly in the future. I mean for pete's sake the frickin Raiders beat the shit out of us.

[BroncoNut]

It is all subjective, I do not understand how Tebow cannot be an integral cog in the Bronco's key to success now and more importantly in the future.

We'd continue to get killed with him out there now.

[I Eat Staples]

apparently. hey IES. why is the horse's crotch in your avy blue/grey?

I never even noticed that. I have no idea but that is quite disturbing.

[John Bad Elk]

he won the job apparently.

The drum beat is strong.

[SOCALORADO.]

It is all subjective, I do not understand how Tebow cannot be an integral cog in the Bronco's key to success now and more importantly in the future. I mean for Pete's sake the Raiders beat the shit out of us!

Get used to disapointment :welcome:

[BroncoNut]

I never even noticed that. I have no idea but that is quite disturbing.

we used to have horses and I think it's natural that there is no hair in that area. However, it is usually black/dark. That steel blue color is weird,

[I Eat Staples]

Get used to disapointment :welcome:

What, no picture? Slacker.

[Bullgator]

he won the job apparently.

dont be an ijit... he APPARENTLY won the job because Fox is a ***** and is scared to enrage the media. The fans he can ignore... the media will tear him down with a quickness if he starts TT and if TT doesnt be a world beater right off the bat.

no one is going to chastise him for continuing to run the DB franchise into the ground with KO other than the fans.

an old coach adage "if you listen to the fans you will soon be up there sitting with them"

Fox wont play TT because its not the safer of the two choices... if he loses this year its ok with him... he can just blame the mess on McD. if he starts TT and loses then thats all on him.

BUT its obvious to anyone who is not bias that TT has WAAAAYYYYY more upside, passion and clutch ability to win games even if he doesnt look good tossing the ball in his practice shorts.

[claymore]

dont be an ijit... he APPARENTLY won the job because Fox is a ***** and is scared to enrage the media. The fans he can ignore... the media will tear him down with a quickness if he starts TT and if TT doesnt be a world beater right off the bat.

no one is going to chastise him for continuing to run the DB franchise into the ground with KO other than the fans.

an old coach adage "if you listen to the fans you will soon be up there sitting with them"

Fox wont play TT because its not the safer of the two choices... if he loses this year its ok with him... he can just blame the mess on McD. if he starts TT and loses then thats all on him.

BUT its obvious to anyone who is not bias that TT has WAAAAYYYYY more upside, passion and clutch ability to win games even if he doesnt look good tossing the ball in his practice shorts.

Name me another profession where anyone that sucks during practice is given the keys to the kingdom.

[Bullgator]

yeah... thats what i thought... i should rename myself "thread killer" cuz after my posts there aint much left to say! :cool: :D

[MOtorboat]

dont be an ijit... he APPARENTLY won the job because Fox is a ***** and is scared to enrage the media. The fans he can ignore... the media will tear him down with a quickness if he starts TT and if TT doesnt be a world beater right off the bat.

no one is going to chastise him for continuing to run the DB franchise into the ground with KO other than the fans.

an old coach adage "if you listen to the fans you will soon be up there sitting with them"

Fox wont play TT because its not the safer of the two choices... if he loses this year its ok with him... he can just blame the mess on McD. if he starts TT and loses then thats all on him.

BUT its obvious to anyone who is not bias that TT has WAAAAYYYYY more upside, passion and clutch ability to win games even if he doesnt look good tossing the ball in his practice shorts.

There's no real need to lash out at nut because Tebow can't beat out a mediocre quarterback for the starting job...

[NightTerror218]

dont be an ijit... he APPARENTLY won the job because Fox is a ***** and is scared to enrage the media. The fans he can ignore... the media will tear him down with a quickness if he starts TT and if TT doesnt be a world beater right off the bat.

no one is going to chastise him for continuing to run the DB franchise into the ground with KO other than the fans.

an old coach adage "if you listen to the fans you will soon be up there sitting with them"

Fox wont play TT because its not the safer of the two choices... if he loses this year its ok with him... he can just blame the mess on McD. if he starts TT and loses then thats all on him.

BUT its obvious to anyone who is not bias that TT has WAAAAYYYYY more upside, passion and clutch ability to win games even if he doesnt look good tossing the ball in his practice shorts.


But can you argue that Tebow getting some extra coaching time, working with Elway after practice and actually getting the coaching he did not get last year he will be more ready to start laster this season? If he starts say game 9, he will miss the escalator and he wont double his salary too.

I think Tebow does need work, but I saw good progress from preseason game 1 to 4 with his pocket presence, staying in there longer.

[claymore]

yeah... thats what i thought... i should rename myself "thread killer" cuz after my posts there aint much left to say! :cool: :D

fail

[vandammage13]

Name me another profession where anyone that sucks during practice is given the keys to the kingdom.

To channel my inner Allen Iverson.....

Practice? We talkin bout practice...practice...not a game, not a game...practice.

[NightTerror218]

Name me another profession where anyone that sucks during practice is given the keys to the kingdom.

Tebow......last 3 games of the 2010 season. Quinn did not start, Tebow did. So that would be Football.

They do it all the time with rookies (draft picks) to get them experience with live game time to evaluate the players.

[MOtorboat]

To channel my inner Allen Iverson.....

Practice? We talkin bout practice...practice...not a game, not a game...practice.

When you're Allen Iverson you can joke about practice,

When you're the co-second string quarterback for one of the worst teams in the league, you probably ought to take it seriously...

[Bullgator]

Name me another profession where anyone that sucks during practice is given the keys to the kingdom.

what other professions have practice other than sports? and in sports practice is a whole nother beast man... clay your smart enough to see that if you cant get hit, dont have to scramble and play 7 on 7 against your own team then its little more than a walk through..

KO didnt just beat out TT he looked GREAT. the problem is that under the lights for the whole world to see and a bitter rival D looking to tear your head off... what will you do then? shitr the bed and drop the ball... literally...

TT THRIVES on the lights man, thats who he is... practice is just.... fake pretend time... is it nice to look good sure but with that and a token you can get on the bus!

GIVE ME A STAR GAMER! someone who feeds off the lights!

college aint the NFL, but if you think that the multiple SEC championships and the NCs he thrived in are on any less of a stage than monday night football your delusional.

the kid needs those lights to play...

[Mike]

Name me another profession where anyone that sucks during practice is given the keys to the kingdom.

POTUS...apparently. :flame:

:ninja:

[vandammage13]

But can you argue that Tebow getting some extra coaching time, working with Elway after practice and actually getting the coaching he did not get last year he will be more ready to start laster this season? If he starts say game 9, he will miss the escalator and he wont double his salary too.

Actually, I believe the escalator is based on him taking 55% of the snaps.

He could start after week 12 and still get to 55% because of all of Orton's 3 and outs.

[claymore]

Tebow......last 3 games of the 2010 season. Quinn did not start, Tebow did. So that would be Football.

They do it all the time with rookies (draft picks) to get them experience with live game time to evaluate the players.
Exactly, If they would have liked what they saw he would still be in.

[BroncoNut]

Exactly, If they would have liked what they saw he would still be in.

There was a change at HC position going on, that's probably part of the reason

[MOtorboat]

what other professions have practice other than sports? and in sports practice is a whole nother beast man... clay your smart enough to see that if you cant get hit, dont have to scramble and play 7 on 7 against your own team then its little more than a walk through..

KO didnt just beat out TT he looked GREAT. the problem is that under the lights for the whole world to see and a bitter rival D looking to tear your head off... what will you do then? shitr the bed and drop the ball... literally...

TT THRIVES on the lights man, thats who he is... practice is just.... fake pretend time... is it nice to look good sure but with that and a token you can get on the bus!

GIVE ME A STAR GAMER! someone who feeds off the lights!

college aint the NFL, but if you think that the multiple SEC championships and the NCs he thrived in are on any less of a stage than monday night football your delusional.

the kid needs those lights to play...

There's a reason you go to school.

[Mike]

Exactly, If they would have liked what they saw he would still be in.

Granted this is the guy who stuck with Dellhomme.

[claymore]

what other professions have practice other than sports? and in sports practice is a whole nother beast man... clay your smart enough to see that if you cant get hit, dont have to scramble and play 7 on 7 against your own team then its little more than a walk through..

KO didnt just beat out TT he looked GREAT. the problem is that under the lights for the whole world to see and a bitter rival D looking to tear your head off... what will you do then? shitr the bed and drop the ball... literally...

TT THRIVES on the lights man, thats who he is... practice is just.... fake pretend time... is it nice to look good sure but with that and a token you can get on the bus!

GIVE ME A STAR GAMER! someone who feeds off the lights!

college aint the NFL, but if you think that the multiple SEC championships and the NCs he thrived in are on any less of a stage than monday night football your delusional.

the kid needs those lights to play...Every profession practices. Its called OJT in non sports related fields.

I think his improvising is why he isnt starting. They want a QB that can follow a script, that can do what he is told. This isnt a pick up game, its the pros.




POTUS...apparently. :flame:

:ninja:
Touche. :tsk:

[Bullgator]

Bottom line is that KO is used to losing and is ok with it as long as he has decent stats.

TT is used to winning and will truck his own memaw on his way to the endzone for a WIN.

choose your culture Denver.

KO who has been losing since pee-wee ball or TT who has won championships at every level they let him on the field on!

[claymore]

Granted this is the guy who stuck with Dellhomme.

Delhomme talso took them to a SB and a I believe won more playoff games than he lost. He was at one point and time a very good QB.

Something happened to him in the playoffs in Jan 2009. He never recovered and was with Cleveland by 2010.

[CoachChaz]

Who gives a damn about the f'ing salary escalator. Next season, Orton and Quinn will be off the books. If TT is as horrible as EFX and most people here ASSUME he is, then cut ties. Dont try to trade your current starter.

I dont know if he'll be great or horrible and quite honestly...until he has an opportunity to prove anything, NO ONE here can say it either. What I do know is if we dont see what we have in him, the off-season will be a huge gamble. If QB was the only need, it would be one thing. But if we forego drafting another position in order to draft a QB...and Tebow turns out to be pretty good...it's going to set us back another year.

However...if we dont draft a QB...and Tebow truly sucks...we're screwed. But none of this can be decided by what a guy can or cannot accomplish in practice. Game time...that's all that matters.

I'm not a Tebow apologist, but I do want to know what we have before we piss on it.

[claymore]

Bottom line is that KO is used to losing and is ok with it as long as he has decent stats.

TT is used to winning and will truck his own memaw on his way to the endzone for a WIN.

choose your culture Denver.

KO who has been losing since pee-wee ball or TT who has won championships at every level they let him on the field on!

I choose non of the above. I want my future QB to easily beat KO in practice.

[Ravage!!!]

what other professions have practice other than sports? and in sports practice is a whole nother beast man... clay your smart enough to see that if you cant get hit, dont have to scramble and play 7 on 7 against your own team then its little more than a walk through..

KO didnt just beat out TT he looked GREAT. the problem is that under the lights for the whole world to see and a bitter rival D looking to tear your head off... what will you do then? shitr the bed and drop the ball... literally...

TT THRIVES on the lights man, thats who he is... practice is just.... fake pretend time... is it nice to look good sure but with that and a token you can get on the bus!

GIVE ME A STAR GAMER! someone who feeds off the lights!

college aint the NFL, but if you think that the multiple SEC championships and the NCs he thrived in are on any less of a stage than monday night football your delusional.

the kid needs those lights to play...

Then he better start learning how to read defenses and run an offense when its only a "run through" with 7 on 7. Because if he can't do it in practice, no one is goingto give him the chance to "try" in a game.

If all he wants to do, is prove it in the games, then I can point him to a guy that wanted the exact same thing....... he's playing handball right now.

They've been talking to Patriot players all week asking them how it is to play with Brady. The one thing that they commented on, is how hard he plays in PRACTICE. Saying its the practice where you see Brady jumping down people's throats, getting upset, and leading the team to PREPARE. Then during games, its the results of practice.

If Tebow can't show that he's doing the right things while the team is PREPARING for their battles, why would anyone believe he's ready for "those lights?"

[claymore]

Who gives a damn about the f'ing salary escalator. Next season, Orton and Quinn will be off the books. If TT is as horrible as EFX and most people here ASSUME he is, then cut ties. Dont try to trade your current starter.

I dont know if he'll be great or horrible and quite honestly...until he has an opportunity to prove anything, NO ONE here can say it either. What I do know is if we dont see what we have in him, the off-season will be a huge gamble. If QB was the only need, it would be one thing. But if we forego drafting another position in order to draft a QB...and Tebow turns out to be pretty good...it's going to set us back another year.

However...if we dont draft a QB...and Tebow truly sucks...we're screwed. But none of this can be decided by what a guy can or cannot accomplish in practice. Game time...that's all that matters.

I'm not a Tebow apologist, but I do want to know what we have before we piss on it.
Lets release Orton then, and give Weber a shot to. He couldnt beat anyone out, but hey, practice means nothing.

[CoachChaz]

I choose non of the above. I want my future QB to easily beat KO in practice.

For all we know, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, etc. all suck in practice. What does that prove?

[Ravage!!!]

For all we know, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, etc. all suck in practice. What does that prove?

We know they don't. Seriously, you think its possible Manning, Brees, and Rodgers suck in practice??

[CoachChaz]

Lets release Orton then, and give Weber a shot to. He couldnt beat anyone out, but hey, practice means nothing.

Let's not take it to extremes or anything. Look at it this way. Tebow's 3 starts last year...while not great performances...were better than what WE HAVE BEEN TOLD about his practices this year. That alone could spell the fact that he plays better than he practices. I can assure you he isnt the first athlete that has ever had that label.

[claymore]

Let's not take it to extremes or anything. Look at it this way. Tebow's 3 starts last year...while not great performances...were better than what WE HAVE BEEN TOLD about his practices this year. That alone could spell the fact that he plays better than he practices. I can assure you he isnt the first athlete that has ever had that label.

Chaz, his playbook for those 3 games was razor thin. They didnt let him do anything.

Its not like the opposing DC's had time to prepare for Tebow. They had no tape on Studsville's offense, and what Tebow would do. They were blind.

Tebow got progressively worse against bad teams. SD being the best of the 3.

[claymore]

For all we know, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, etc. all suck in practice. What does that prove?

Rothlisberger is the only one ive ever heard a coach say he would have never got an opportunity to start because he sucked so bad in practice.

Injury helped him, but he never lost. The dude was amazing in his rookie year, and he could play from under center with the whole playbook.

[CoachChaz]

We know they don't. Seriously, you think its possible Manning, Brees, and Rodgers suck in practice??

Not likely, but guess what. I dont see them in practice every day. Just like we dont see Tebow in practice everyday.

But rationally speaking...if Orton looks great in practice and sucks on the field...then we already know that practice and gameplay are 2 entirely different scenarios.

Proof...if people can take off the hatred tinted glasses for a moment, they can see that Tebow didnt look all that bad in pre-season play. He looked like a young QB that needs more time to develop. But he did not look like someone that has no ability either.

Again...I'm not promoting him. I just want to know what kind of player we have in him before we go into the draft. An informed decision is always better than an assumed decision. Seriously...what the hell do we have to lose by taking a look at him and getting an idea?

[CoachChaz]

Rothlisberger is the only one ive ever heard a coach say he would have never got an opportunity to start because he sucked so bad in practice.

Injury helped him, but he never lost. The dude was amazing in his rookie year, and he could play from under center with the whole playbook.

So you're saying it's possible for a talented player to practice bad.

And I will say it again...I dont know what Tebow will bring to the table, but why the hell would anyone give up on a 2-3 year project after a year? The intelligent thing to do is give him some PT and see what you have before you decide to move on.

[SOCALORADO.]

Not likely, but guess what. I dont see them in practice every day. Just like we dont see Tebow in practice everyday.

But rationally speaking...if Orton looks great in practice and sucks on the field...then we already know that practice and gameplay are 2 entirely different scenarios.

Proof...if people can take off the hatred tinted glasses for a moment, they can see that Tebow didnt look all that bad in pre-season play. He looked like a young QB that needs more time to develop. But he did not look like someone that has no ability either.

Again...I'm not promoting him. I just want to know what kind of player we have in him before we go into the draft. An informed decision is always better than an assumed decision. Seriously...what the hell do we have to lose by taking a look at him and getting an idea?

OK, so coach why arent they playing him?
Why? Why are they not even remotely interested in playing him?
Why was there a "Co-No 2 title created?
Tell me what you really think the FO is doing.
I seriously want to know your opinion.

[Bullgator]

Every profession practices. Its called OJT in non sports related fields.

I think his improvising is why he isnt starting. They want a QB that can follow a script, that can do what he is told. This isnt a pick up game, its the pros.




Touche. :tsk:

I agree somewhat with part of the reason why hes not starting is that TT is an improviser...

You see thats stepping on the toes of the OC... but it has nothing to do with the pros.

in a perfect world you want the QB to BE the OC in real time as the play unfolds.

you dont want pre laid out plans you commit to... but you want to kung-fu to intercept and react to the D in real time... this is a much better way have success.... the way of the intercepting fist my friend.

you guys use alot of condescending remarks that "this is the NFL" "these are the pros"....

this is convenient for you guys to sling around but you never EVER use it correctly... when you have no answer you just try and end the debate with one of those as if to explain any further is comical... "yea duh its the pros duh... yea.."

get over your selves... BECAUSE its the pros and millions of dollars are changing hands there is hell of a lot more that goes in making decisions than just football... these greedy ******** are all scared of losing their cash cows, and so don't think for a SECOND you getting the best product on the field. Lively hoods are at stake, and people make selfish greedy decisions all the time that isnt team oriented.

Like fox is now doing to cover his ass.

[Mike]

Lets release Orton then, and give Weber a shot to. He couldnt beat anyone out, but hey, practice means nothing.

Clay, we know what we have in the bum. If we lose with the bum, and we do/will, what is the risk in giving someone else a shot. How many times do we have to see the bum crap his pants when the Broncos have a shot to win? He is who he is.

I don't care what he does in practice, I have 3 years of seeing the same old garbage. Which is by far a good enough sample to come to a conclusion.

If you have to scrap the offensive style to fit someone else. Do it. Lord knows that the offensive game plan (and judging Monday night, it is the same damn offense as under McD) is completely ineffective. So change it. But doing the same damn thing over and over and expecting different results is freaking insane and is a waste of our time.

I kid you not, I should not be falling asleep during a Monday night football game, especially one against our most hated rival.

[Bullgator]

OK, so coach why arent they playing him?
Why? Why are they not even remotely interested in playing him?
Why was there a "Co-No 2 title created?
Tell me what you really think the FO is doing.
I seriously want to know your opinion.

see above

[Nomad]

Not likely, but guess what. I dont see them in practice every day. Just like we dont see Tebow in practice everyday.

But rationally speaking...if Orton looks great in practice and sucks on the field...then we already know that practice and gameplay are 2 entirely different scenarios.

Proof...if people can take off the hatred tinted glasses for a moment, they can see that Tebow didnt look all that bad in pre-season play. He looked like a young QB that needs more time to develop. But he did not look like someone that has no ability either.

Again...I'm not promoting him. I just want to know what kind of player we have in him before we go into the draft. An informed decision is always better than an assumed decision. Seriously...what the hell do we have to lose by taking a look at him and getting an idea?

Nothing! And most of the people against Tebow playing are the 'suck for Luck' crowd . :lol: It's mind numbing to say the least because if he sucks they're guarantee the chance for him!

[claymore]

Clay, we know what we have in the bum. If we lose with the bum, and we do/will, what is the risk in giving someone else a shot. How many times do we have to see the bum crap his pants when the Broncos have a shot to win? He is who he is.

I don't care what he does in practice, I have 3 years of seeing the same old garbage. Which is by far a good enough sample to come to a conclusion.

If you have to scrap the offensive style to fit someone else. Do it. Lord knows that the offensive game plan (and judging Monday night, it is the same damn offense as under McD) is completely ineffective. So change it. But doing the same damn thing over and over and expecting different results is freaking insane and is a waste of our time.

I kid you not, I should not be falling asleep during a Monday night football game, especially one against our most hated rival.

If everything is fair, then QUin would be the next to get a shot.

I dont like Orton, I dont want him as our starter.

But I understand that Fox thinks he is the best chance we have to win, and Fox isnt going to pull him unless he really really stinks it up. 300 yards a TD, and a Fumble arent going to get Orton pulled.

[claymore]

I agree somewhat with part of the reason why hes not starting is that TT is an improviser...

You see thats stepping on the toes of the OC... but it has nothing to do with the pros.

in a perfect world you want the QB to BE the OC in real time as the play unfolds.

you dont want pre laid out plans you commit to... but you want to kung-fu to intercept and react to the D in real time... this is a much better way have success.... the way of the intercepting fist my friend.

you guys use alot of condescending remarks that "this is the NFL" "these are the pros"....

this is convenient for you guys to sling around but you never EVER use it correctly... when you have no answer you just try and end the debate with one of those as if to explain any further is comical... "yea duh its the pros duh... yea.."

get over your selves... BECAUSE its the pros and millions of dollars are changing hands there is hell of a lot more that goes in making decisions than just football... these greedy ******** are all scared of losing their cash cows, and so don't think for a SECOND you getting the best product on the field. Lively hoods are at stake, and people make selfish greedy decisions all the time that isnt team oriented.

Like fox is now doing to cover his ass.

Fox isnt covering his ass, he is trying to win. He put the best players on the field. Like it or not.

[Bullgator]

I choose non of the above. I want my future QB to easily beat KO in practice.

There has never been a better practice QB in the history of football.... Youd be waiting a long ******* time.

The dood has been stellar every camp of his career! Face it man hes just a flag football legend.

TT will never be an ace in passing... just a jack BUT hes also a jack in running too... you cant scramble and run in practice! they dont take all of TTs talents into account in practice... if they DID then TT would beat out KO hands down.

[Bullgator]

Fox isnt covering his ass, he is trying to win. He put the best players on the field. Like it or not.

No man hes not. Hes trying to keep his job. And you do that by covering your ass... you would rather do it by winning of course but when your team is not a winner all bets are off.

[claymore]

There has never been a better practice QB in the history of football.... Youd be waiting a long ******* time.

The dood has been stellar every camp of his career! Face it man hes just a flag football legend.

TT will never be an ace in passing... just a jack BUT hes also a jack in running too... you cant scramble and run in practice! they dont take all of TTs talents into account in practice... if they DID then TT would beat out KO hands down.

Thats where you are wrong. Orton is TERRIBLE. If you arent as good as Orton you are worser than TERRIBLE!

[Mike]

Fox isnt covering his ass, he is trying to win. He put the best players on the field. Like it or not.

Maybe. I think he is also a coach who sticks with veterens. I honestly see that side of the argument and take locker room chemistry into account. I think that has more to do with it, than sticking with the "best player".

[Nomad]

I would say Fox is starting Orton because of the veteran title only and not that he's any better as far as talent. Again, the Raiders game was enough for me of Kyle Orton and if he stinks against the Bengals....cut his ass regardless of the money!

[claymore]

No man hes not. Hes trying to keep his job. And you do that by covering your ass... you would rather do it by winning of course but when your team is not a winner all bets are off.

You keep your job as a coach by winning games. If he thought he could win more games with Tebow, then the starter would be Tebow.

There isnt a magical conspiracy.

[claymore]

Maybe. I think he is also a coach who sticks with veterens. I honestly see that side of the argument and take locker room chemistry into account. I think that has more to do with it, than sticking with the "best player".

Name me one other position on the team where the best player is 3rd string.

[CoachChaz]

OK, so coach why arent they playing him?
Why? Why are they not even remotely interested in playing him?
Why was there a "Co-No 2 title created?
Tell me what you really think the FO is doing.
I seriously want to know your opinion.

Instead of reading into it, being pissed of that my team sucks and creating a conspiracy theory or assumption...I will give the answer that encompasses all of us.

I dont know.

NONE of us know the logic behind the decisions. The "Co #2" thing to me is just PR fluff. Something to keep both Quinn and Tebow content for now. But as far as why he isnt being played...it's kind of simple to me.

Kevin Kolb was drafted and didnt play. McNabb was playing horribly and was the incumbent starter for a team that was playoff capable. Kolb was not ready to take the reins of a playoff team. Maybe Tebow isnt completely ready either...but this isnt a playoff team, so who cares? McNair and countless others sat on the bench in lieu of a lesser QB so they could develop and learn and eventually take over. If I'm forced to make an assumption, then this is mine. I will NOT jump on the "I hate Tebow because it's the in thing to do" bandwagon and I will look at him like I would look at any 2nd year project QB.

However...if we want to create a theory that EFX secretly hates him, that's fine. Might I also suggest a few other headlines to follow as well.

9/11 was an inside job
There was more than one shooter in the Kennedy assassination
Pearl Harbor was planned

[Bullgator]

Thats where you are wrong. Orton is TERRIBLE. If you arent as good as Orton you are worser than TERRIBLE!

Orton is terrbile to be sure.. IN GAMES! in practice hes ******* montana apparently.

[claymore]

Orton is terrbile to be sure.. IN GAMES! in practice hes ******* montana apparently.

Nope, he pretty much sucks all around. Always has. It makes ya'll feel better to find a conspiracy on why Tebow isnt starting.

[NightTerror218]

Nope, he pretty much sucks all around. Always has. It makes ya'll feel better to find a conspiracy on why Tebow isnt starting.

No he is a practice player who is spot on all of TC and practice. If he played the same in games as he did practice we would be winning games but he doesn't. His thing is to fail when in games when it actually matters.

[CoachChaz]

Fox isnt covering his ass, he is trying to win. He put the best players on the field. Like it or not.

Agree to disagree.

Moreno over McGahee?

[claymore]

Instead of reading into it, being pissed of that my team sucks and creating a conspiracy theory or assumption...I will give the answer that encompasses all of us.

I dont know.

NONE of us know the logic behind the decisions. The "Co #2" thing to me is just PR fluff. Something to keep both Quinn and Tebow content for now. But as far as why he isnt being played...it's kind of simple to me.

Kevin Kolb was drafted and didnt play. McNabb was playing horribly and was the incumbent starter for a team that was playoff capable. Kolb was not ready to take the reins of a playoff team. Maybe Tebow isnt completely ready either...but this isnt a playoff team, so who cares? McNair and countless others sat on the bench in lieu of a lesser QB so they could develop and learn and eventually take over. If I'm forced to make an assumption, then this is mine. I will NOT jump on the "I hate Tebow because it's the in thing to do" bandwagon and I will look at him like I would look at any 2nd year project QB.

However...if we want to create a theory that EFX secretly hates him, that's fine. Might I also suggest a few other headlines to follow as well.

9/11 was an inside job
There was more than one shooter in the Kennedy assassination
Pearl Harbor was planned

McNabb didnt play bad. 60% completion ratio, 92 QB rating...

[I Eat Staples]

Bottom line is that KO is used to losing and is ok with it as long as he has decent stats.

TT is used to winning and will truck his own memaw on his way to the endzone for a WIN.

choose your culture Denver.

KO who has been losing since pee-wee ball or TT who has won championships at every level they let him on the field on!

Who says I have to choose either one of them?

[Bullgator]

You keep your job as a coach by winning games. If he thought he could win more games with Tebow, then the starter would be Tebow.

There isnt a magical conspiracy.

when you cant win you keep your job as long as you can... and thats by being safe.

Fox has a short leash... there was one other coach that had a worse record than you boy McD... care to guess who that was?!?!

TT is too spicy for a vanilla ***** like Fox to touch. he is not teh SAFE PLAY.

He DOES think he could win with TT, but he also know he could shorten his career if TT isnt a winner right off the bat.

high risk high reward. but with orton all the experts back him up. that is the pro choice even if you lose 15 games... you can say "hey i put the best out there and this is what your best is, thank McD for that, i just got here"

mike makes a good point too... KO is a vet and locker room chemistry is important too... to bench a vet too soon is to say that no one is safe...

AGAIN this has nothing to do with putting the best team on the field but rather its about money and job security for the vets as well.

[Bullgator]

Who says I have to choose either one of them?

Staples the truth is TT is just not a likable guy in your mind.. even as a winner you cant stomach him leading your team. You have deep[ seeded and personal reasons to root against him just as i have the same to root for him... but objectivly in your heart of hearts you knows hes better than KO and in fact he could be great given time... you just hate him..


now you will never EVER admit this, but know why you hate him and its nothing to do with football.

how do i know this? CUZ THE DOOD HAS NEVER PLAYED BAD IN A GAME FOR YOU TO POINT TO!

you just speculate what he may not be able to do in the future... or else point to a bad game hes had?

[CoachChaz]

McNabb didnt play bad. 60% completion ratio, 92 QB rating...

Poor choice of words on my part.

They realized he was a worthless leader and couldnt play big in big games. Sound familiar?

[MOtorboat]

Orton is terrbile to be sure.. IN GAMES! in practice hes ******* montana apparently.

I'm convinced at this point that Tom Brady could start in front of Tebow and you'd say he was terrible.

[I Eat Staples]

when you cant win you keep your job as long as you can... and thats by being safe.

Fox has a short leash... there was one other coach that had a worse record than you boy McD... care to guess who that was?!?!

TT is too spicy for a vanilla ***** like Fox to touch. he is not teh SAFE PLAY.

He DOES think he could win with TT, but he also know he could shorten his career if TT isnt a winner right off the bat.

high risk high reward. but with orton all the experts back him up. that is the pro choice even if you lose 15 games... you can say "hey i put the best out there and this is what your best is, thank McD for that, i just got here"

mike makes a good point too... KO is a vet and locker room chemistry is important too... to bench a vet too soon is to say that no one is safe...

AGAIN this has nothing to do with putting the best team on the field but rather its about money and job security for the vets as well.

You're under the false assumption that Orton isn't our best QB on the roster.

[claymore]

No he is a practice player who is spot on all of TC and practice. If he played the same in games as he did practice we would be winning games but he doesn't. His thing is to fail when in games when it actually matters.
Orton inspires nobody durring practice or during games.

Agree to disagree.

Moreno over McGahee?

Can you honestly say McGahee looked better than Moreno on Monday?

[Bullgator]

You're under the false assumption that Orton isn't our best QB on the roster.

IDK dood hes had 2+years on your team and 6+ in the league. As a fan watching the feinting goat do you REALLY believe hes the best on the team?

You will say yes for the arguments case but do you really believe that?

[claymore]

Poor choice of words on my part.

They realized he was a worthless leader and couldnt play big in big games. Sound familiar?

Totally.

[I Eat Staples]

Staples the truth is TT is just not a likable guy in your mind.. even as a winner you cant stomach him leading your team. You have deep[ seeded and personal reasons to root against him just as i have the same to root for him... but objectivly in your heart of hearts you knows hes better than KO and in fact he could be great given time... you just hate him..


now you will never EVER admit this, but know why you hate him and its nothing to do with football.

how do i know this? CUZ THE DOOD HAS NEVER PLAYED BAD IN A GAME FOR YOU TO POINT TO!

you just speculate what he may not be able to do in the future... or else point to a bad game hes had?

You come on here radically spreading your love for Tebow and then claim not only that I hate him, but that you know exactly why I hate him and how I really feel about his ability as a player. That's a really terrible argument, saying "you're just saying that because you hate him!"

I don't hate Tebow, or any other NFL player for that matter, I just don't want him on my team. There are very few Broncos who I don't consider expendable on this team, they just don't have the cult following that Tebow does. If I point to his bad games, you simply won't agree with me. You consider Tebow running over DBs and picking up 8 yards a good play for a QB. I consider that a good play for a HB. I wish we had a HB who could run as well as Tebow. Problem is, he can't throw. If Tebow would convert to HB I'd be advocating starting him.

[I Eat Staples]

IDK dood hes had 2+years on your team and 6+ in the league. As a fan watching the feinting goat do you REALLY believe hes the best on the team?

You will say yes for the arguments case but do you really believe that?

Yes, I really believe that. He's the best of the worst at this point. I just want to draft a QB in the 1st round next year and be done with all 3 of ours.

[Bullgator]

You're under the false assumption that Orton isn't our best QB on the roster.

Why dont we find out? your boy has had plenty of time to show his stuff... mine has had what you call 3 meaningless games... now if he sucked in those gaes it would be telling.. but since he played well they are meaningless..

regardless... you assume he suck, I assume hes the greatest thing since orange tang... why dont we wait till he has a large enough a sample size before we declare him a HoF or a steaming pile of shit.

[Bullgator]

Yes, I really believe that. He's the best of the worst at this point. I just want to draft a QB in the 1st round next year and be done with all 3 of ours.

we know KO sucks but you DONT KNOW TT sucks. cuz he hasnt played yet.

[NightTerror218]

Yes, I really believe that. He's the best of the worst at this point. I just want to draft a QB in the 1st round next year and be done with all 3 of ours.

Even though Tebow has not been able to show people what he is capable of? Quinn has never played a down outside of preseason with the starters?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Last night on NFL live they were discussing this - basically Tebow vs Orton, and Mark Schlereth stated that he had attended about 10 Bronco practices, and Tebow looked terrible in practices. Mark then said - obviously the players notice that, and if Tebow was put in ahead of Orton, what do you think the.other players would be thinking.

[CoachChaz]

Orton inspires nobody durring practice or during games.


Can you honestly say McGahee looked better than Moreno on Monday?

No...but does that mean Moreno is better?

Fitpatrick leads the NFL in passer rating. Is he better than Rodgers, Brady, etc?

Ben Tate had 116 yards rushing. Is Arian Foster now the #2 back in Houston?

Melton had more sacks than Peppers...and so on and so on

[Bullgator]

Last night on NFL live they were discussing this - basically Tebow vs Orton, and Mark Schlereth stated that he had attended about 10 Bronco practices, and Tebow looked terrible in practices. Mark then said - obviously the players notice that, and if Tebow was put in ahead of Orton, what do you think the.other players would be thinking.

I agree it would be a locker room issue, until TT started winning games.

[Ravage!!!]

Last night on NFL live they were discussing this - basically Tebow vs Orton, and Mark Schlereth stated that he had attended about 10 Bronco practices, and Tebow looked terrible in practices. Mark then said - obviously the players notice that, and if Tebow was put in ahead of Orton, what do you think the.other players would be thinking.

Yeah, but I'm sure Schlereth is only saying that and doesn't really mean it.

[CoachChaz]

Last night on NFL live they were discussing this - basically Tebow vs Orton, and Mark Schlereth stated that he had attended about 10 Bronco practices, and Tebow looked terrible in practices. Mark then said - obviously the players notice that, and if Tebow was put in ahead of Orton, what do you think the.other players would be thinking.

Fair enough, but I also recall seeing many of these same players rallying around Tebow last year in a way they've NEVER rallied around Orton. So who knows. It's all assumption and interjection.

I just want to know what the **** we have before the draft

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I agree it would be a locker room issue, until TT started winning games.

And then if he did not start winning games - then what? There is no way that the Broncos powers to be can take that chance, with the possibility that the decision would blow up in their face.

[Ravage!!!]

Fair enough, but I also recall seeing many of these same players rallying around Tebow last year in a way they've NEVER rallied around Orton. So who knows. It's all assumption and interjection.

I just want to know what the **** we have before the draft

Awww.. but here is the thing, as well. The coaches and GM don't care if YOU know what we have, if they feel THEY know what we have.

[SOCALORADO.]

Yeah, but I'm sure Schlereth is only saying that and doesn't really mean it.

Schlereth and Elway go waay back.
Clearly Schlereth is part of the conspiracy, and being paid by Elway to hate on TT. Thats obvious.

[Nomad]

Schlereth and Elway go waay back.
Clearly Schlereth is part of the conspiracy, and being paid by Elway to hate on TT. Thats obvious.

You just need the best QB on the roster that will get you Luck, so pipe down!:D

[Northman]

Last night on NFL live they were discussing this - basically Tebow vs Orton, and Mark Schlereth stated that he had attended about 10 Bronco practices, and Tebow looked terrible in practices. Mark then said - obviously the players notice that, and if Tebow was put in ahead of Orton, what do you think the.other players would be thinking.

What would they be thinking if he was able to help them win games? Can you answer that for me?

[Northman]

And then if he did not start winning games - then what? There is no way that the Broncos powers to be can take that chance, with the possibility that the decision would blow up in their face.

Why? :lol:

They were losing under Orton, it wouldnt make a difference who was the QB if they couldnt win ballgames either way.

[I Eat Staples]

Bullgator you just said that practice is easy and pointless compared to a game. If Tebow is terrible in practice, what makes you think he'll be any good in a game? No matter how much passion he has, the guy can't throw.

[claymore]

No...but does that mean Moreno is better?

Fitpatrick leads the NFL in passer rating. Is he better than Rodgers, Brady, etc?

Ben Tate had 116 yards rushing. Is Arian Foster now the #2 back in Houston?

Melton had more sacks than Peppers...and so on and so on

Moreno posted better numbers. Im not going to defend him, but I dont think he was the starter because McGahee had some escalator in his contract.

All that other stuff doesnt have anything to do with the tebow argument. Those are players that rose to the occasion.

Tebow has underwhelmed the coaching staff. If Fox thought he was the best option, he would be the starter.

[Nomad]

Why? :lol:

They were losing under Orton, it wouldnt make a difference who was the QB if they couldnt win ballgames either way.

Yep! We will know BRONCOS are drafting a QB next year with their #1.

[CoachChaz]

Moreno posted better numbers. Im not going to defend him, but I dont think he was the starter because McGahee had some escalator in his contract.

All that other stuff doesnt have anything to do with the tebow argument. Those are players that rose to the occasion.

Tebow has underwhelmed the coaching staff. If Fox thought he was the best option, he would be the starter.

I agree. But I dont think Tebow is the backup because he sucks...moreso because he just isnt ready. My argument is...what do we have to lose? We have an opportunity to get a franchise guy in the draft and I want to know if it's a valid pick. So what will it hurt to put TT out there and see if he progresses at all?

He sure as shit cant do any worse than KO

[slim]

Bullgator you just said that practice is easy and pointless compared to a game. If Tebow is terrible in practice, what makes you think he'll be any good in a game? No matter how much passion he has, the guy can't throw.

Yet he managed to put up 25 points a game in his 3 starts last year.

Amazing!

[CoachChaz]

Awww.. but here is the thing, as well. The coaches and GM don't care if YOU know what we have, if they feel THEY know what we have.

But basing it on practice? If he practiced as bad as what we're told, then it's obvious he plays better than he practices. He's done decently in his 3 games last year and in pre-season. Nothing amazing, but certainly better than we're told he did in practice.

Flip side. Maybe they do like him and want to develop him and dont want to rush him.

I guess we'l find out on draft day

[I Eat Staples]

Yet he managed to put up 25 points a game in his 3 starts last year.

Amazing!

And Orton put up 20 points on Monday night, but I think we can agree he looked terrible for the most part.

[slim]

And Orton put up 20 points on Monday night, but I think we can agree he looked terrible for the most part.

Uh, no. Orton put up 10 points. Eric Decker put up 7 and Von Miller gave them 3.

[claymore]

I agree. But I dont think Tebow is the backup because he sucks...moreso because he just isnt ready. My argument is...what do we have to lose? We have an opportunity to get a franchise guy in the draft and I want to know if it's a valid pick. So what will it hurt to put TT out there and see if he progresses at all?

He sure as shit cant do any worse than KO

My opinion of Orton is so low that anyone that is his backup has to be worse. I just cant believe that the next person that comes in off the bench will be any better.

[Bullgator]

And then if he did not start winning games - then what? There is no way that the Broncos powers to be can take that chance, with the possibility that the decision would blow up in their face.

Naw... in that case you tell the team you did it to expose TT to the fans.. shut them up and then you cut the tumor from your team and blame McD for the whole mess.

You dont mess around with a bandaid stuck to your arm hair.. you grow a pair and rip that bitch off asap.

The longer this drags on the worse its going to get. Its unfair for a sucky KO that every incomplete is going to bring tebow chants, and its unfair to the fans that they string this mess out.. and the longer we go without know what we have then then thats one more year we are set back... we cannot not afford not to know what we have in TT on the field with such a QB rich draft comming up..

WE NEED TO KNOW NOW

But thats what i mean Carol.. thats a chance Fox is not willing to take even tho the upside is mile high, if you will.

[claymore]

But basing it on practice? If he practiced as bad as what we're told, then it's obvious he plays better than he practices. He's done decently in his 3 games last year and in pre-season. Nothing amazing, but certainly better than we're told he did in practice.

Flip side. Maybe they do like him and want to develop him and dont want to rush him.
I guess we'l find out on draft day

I can believe this, but I still think he would be handed the #2 spot regardless of how the competition worked out.

[Northman]

And Orton put up 20 points on Monday night, but I think we can agree he looked terrible for the most part.

Uh, Orton didnt put up 20 points.

[I Eat Staples]

Uh, no. Orton put up 10 points. Eric Decker put up 7 and Von Miller gave them 3.

Yeah I realized that after I posted it, but I'm sure you can point to examples of similar things in TT's games. Not to mention the Chargers game was decided by the 4th quarter. If garbage stats aren't good for Orton they aren't good for Tebow.

[slim]

Yeah I realized that after I posted it, but I'm sure you can point to examples of similar things in TT's games. Not to mention the Chargers game was decided by the 4th quarter. If garbage stats aren't good for Orton they aren't good for Tebow.

Well, if we aren't going to count garbage time, then Orton only put up 3 points last week :welcome:

[Nomad]

Well, if we aren't going to count garbage time, then Orton only put up 3 points last week :welcome:

Also, the Raiders penalties helped advanced the ball quite a few times!

[Bullgator]

Bullgator you just said that practice is easy and pointless compared to a game. If Tebow is terrible in practice, what makes you think he'll be any good in a game? No matter how much passion he has, the guy can't throw.

In practice hes forced to do things they are trying to program into him... In games all he has to do is move the ball and play football. he looked like shit in practice at UF too... idk man its just how he is...

something just clicks and hes a ******* beast in games... way its always been.

the point is you as a BD fan cannot afford not to know. whethere your smart enough to know it or not... youd rather just cut bait, but thats not the smart thing to do... see what you have FIRST and if he doesnt cut it then cut bait.. or else you could use that QB pick to get another Von Miller, if you do find TT is what the supporters say he is. If not and he really sucks... it will serve your purpose to suck 4 Luck

[slim]

Also, the Raiders penalties helped advanced the ball quite a few times!

I remember a couple of back-to-back 15 yarders on Oak...then looking up and we were still on the wrong side of the 50 :noidea:

[I Eat Staples]

Well, if we aren't going to count garbage time, then Orton only put up 3 points last week :welcome:

Well, we had a chance to get the ball back and tie the game or win it, so I'm not sure that last TD was garbage time. Regardless, I used to like Orton but now I'm ready to move on and find a real franchise QB. I'm just confident in my evaluation of Tebow being worthless as an NFL passer. Don't get me wrong though, I'd have no problem with him getting a chance this year. I just don't think you can give up on the season this early if you're the coach.


In practice hes forced to do things they are trying to program into him... In games all he has to do is move the ball and play football. he looked like shit in practice at UF too... idk man its just how he is...

something just clicks and hes a ******* beast in games... way its always been.

the point is you as a BD fan cannot afford not to know. whethere your smart enough to know it or not... youd rather just cut bait, but thats not the smart thing to do... see what you have FIRST and if he doesnt cut it then cut bait.. or else you could use that QB pick to get another Von Miller, if you do find TT is what the supporters say he is. If not and he really sucks... it will serve your purpose to suck 4 Luck

Like I said, I'm fine with Tebow playing this year. If I'm right, we get a real franchise QB. If you're right, we already have one. I'll be happy either way. But as a fan, I can grudgingly accept that we're going to suck this year. A coach can't do that. He has to try to win games until the team is eliminated from contention.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Why? :lol:

They were losing under Orton, it wouldnt make a difference who was the QB if they couldnt win ballgames either way.

This morning Nate Kreckman ran down many of the offensive plays, and the mistakes on the plays, which were players' mistakes other than Orton, and Nate stated that there is no way things would have been better with TT.

Alfred Williams also stated that he has watched Tebow practice, and Tebow does not get it.

[Nomad]

I remember a couple of back-to-back 15 yarders on Oak...then looking up and we were still on the wrong side of the 50 :noidea:

So you're saying the drives were worse than just looking at the penalites

[Denver Native (Carol)]

In practice hes forced to do things they are trying to program into him... In games all he has to do is move the ball and play football. he looked like shit in practice at UF too... idk man its just how he is...

something just clicks and hes a ******* beast in games... way its always been.

the point is you as a BD fan cannot afford not to know. whethere your smart enough to know it or not... youd rather just cut bait, but thats not the smart thing to do... see what you have FIRST and if he doesnt cut it then cut bait.. or else you could use that QB pick to get another Von Miller, if you do find TT is what the supporters say he is. If not and he really sucks... it will serve your purpose to suck 4 Luck

So, apparently what you are saying is just throw out the game plan, and let Tebow run the show on offense? No need to set up a game plan, based on the team you are playing as far as their weaknesses on defense - JUST GET OUT THERE AND WING IT

[slim]

This morning Nate Kreckman ran down many of the offensive plays, and the mistakes on the plays, which were players' mistakes other than Orton, and Nate stated that there is no way things would have been better with TT.

Alfred Williams also stated that he has watched Tebow practice, and Tebow does not get it.

Is Nate the guy that has an entire segment of his show devoted to reading his own tweets?

And then he laughs after each one is read, like it was the funniest joke ever told?

[Bullgator]

So, apparently what you are saying is just throw out the game plan, and let Tebow run the show on offense? No need to set up a game plan, based on the team you are playing as far as their weaknesses on defense - JUST GET OUT THERE AND WING IT

no, the game plan is to give TT an option tree. and let him choose from there... dont call a set play that may be doomed form the start... TT is capable of making these reads despite what you have read. Give him an option depending what the D is showing...

and then if the play breaks down then its wing it time. Thats a powerful advantage Carol, dont chalk that up to amateurism. to be able to make a play out of nothing is what makes all the greats great.

for the rest give him three plays that he can call AT THE LINE depending on what the D shows him. this puts him at a schematic advantage and is better than forcing him to make reads on a set play on his drop back.. let him play in the shotgun and give him an option read... i dont mean run option mind you but play option, although i beleive that will work on the NFL level as well... even if you guys dont.

[MOtorboat]

no, the game plan is to give TT an option tree. and let him choose from there... dont call a set play that may be doomed form the start... TT is capable of making these reads despite what you have read. Give him an option depending what the D is showing...

and then if the play breaks down then its wing it time. Thats a powerful advantage Carol, dont chalk that up to amateurism. to be able to make a play out of nothing is what makes all the greats great.

for the rest give him three plays that he can call AT THE LINE depending on what the D shows him. this puts him at a schematic advantage and is better than forcing him to make reads on a set play on his drop back.. let him play in the shotgun and give him an option read... i dont mean run option mind you but play option, although i beleive that will work on the NFL level as well... even if you guys dont.

Every play has an "option tree" and its called "reading progressions" and Tebow showed in every game he gets in that he's not ready to do it.

[Mike]

Every play has an "option tree" and its called "reading progressions" and Tebow showed in every game he gets in that he's not ready to do it.

Umm...did you watch the game Monday?

Orton's progression ---> look for Lloyd, check down or run into d or o-lineman or the hash mark and fall down.

[vandammage13]

Every play has an "option tree" and its called "reading progressions" and Tebow showed in every game he gets in that he's not ready to do it.

Cite and example rather than a blanket statement...

I haven't seen it yet.

[MOtorboat]

Cite and example rather than a blanket statement...

I haven't seen it yet.

You haven't seen him look at his first read, panic and look to run?

Oh, vay...do you watch the games?

[vandammage13]

You haven't seen him look at his first read, panic and look to run?

Oh, vay...do you watch the games?

I saw him face similar pressure that orton did... And instead of taking the sack he scrambled.

Not really ortons fault the line sucks but he's not equipped to handle it. Tebow can at least evade the first man who breaks through.

[MOtorboat]

I saw him face similar pressure that orton did... And instead of taking the sack he scrambled.

Not really ortons fault the line sucks but he's not equipped to handle it. Tebow can at least evade the first man who breaks through.

Hopefully he won't throw it up for grabs like he did in the preseason when that happens.

You won't get bailed out by pass interference every time. Believe it or not, taking a sack is better than an interception.

[claymore]

I saw him face similar pressure that orton did... And instead of taking the sack he scrambled.

Not really ortons fault the line sucks but he's not equipped to handle it. Tebow can at least evade the first man who breaks through.

He was sacked 3 times as much as Orton in Pre season.

[vandammage13]

Hopefully he won't throw it up for grabs like he did in the preseason when that happens.

You won't get bailed out by pass interference every time. Believe it or not, taking a sack is better than an interception.

What about taking sacks, throwing INTs, and phantom fumbles?....I don't see how that is any better.

Not to mention being bailed out by 15 yard penalties, dropped INTs, and pass interferences of his own, and still only managing to put up 10 points.

[Northman]

This morning Nate Kreckman ran down many of the offensive plays, and the mistakes on the plays, which were players' mistakes other than Orton, and Nate stated that there is no way things would have been better with TT.

Alfred Williams also stated that he has watched Tebow practice, and Tebow does not get it.

Way to avoid my question alltogether.

[Northman]

You haven't seen him look at his first read, panic and look to run?



As opposed to Ortons look at his first read, panic, and get sacked? Yea, not a whole lot of difference there except one guy trying to make a play.

[claymore]

What about taking sacks, throwing INTs, and phantom fumbles?....I don't see how that is any better.

Tebow also fumbled twice as much as Orton in the pre season.

[Northman]

Tebow also fumbled twice as much as Orton in the pre season.


Yes, one behind a much worse Oline than the other.

[vandammage13]

He was sacked 3 times as much as Orton in Pre season.

With a backup line that is even worse than our abysmal starters....

[vandammage13]

Tebow also fumbled twice as much as Orton in the pre season.

how many of those did he lose? How many turnovers did he have..oh yeah, 0.

[claymore]

Yes, one behind a much worse Oline than the other.


With a backup line that is even worse than our abysmal starters....

I thought he excelled when it was game time, and things broke down though?

[claymore]

how many of those did he lose? How many turnovers did he have..oh yeah, 0.

Orton led offense outscored the opponents like 34-9. Until Quin and Tebow came in. So, Id say Quin and Tebow lost all those games. 0 turnovers, and 1 touchdown when the CB fell down.

[vandammage13]

I thought he excelled when it was game time, and things broke down though?

He does...that would probably explain why he led the team in completion %, YPA, QBR, and Giveaways despite being the "worst QB on the team."

[Northman]

I thought he excelled when it was game time, and things broke down though?


What QB can excell when they play with pee wee league players? Are you now claiming that Orton is excelling? :lol:

[Northman]

Orton led offense outscored the opponents like 34-9. Until Quin and Tebow came in. So, Id say Quin and Tebow lost all those games. 0 turnovers, and 1 touchdown when the CB fell down.

Did Tebow or Quinn play with the first string line?

[Ravage!!!]

Why is ANYONE trying to use LAME pre-season games as a means of success or failure? Those games mean squat, the players dont' give a flying shit, the coaches don't game plan, there is NOTHING to compare. If the defenses are vanilla, they get even mORE vanilla the further and deeper the depth chart players start filling out the field.

Please stop using pre-season stats. Its absurd.

[Northman]

Why is ANYONE trying to use LAME pre-season games as a means of success or failure? Those games mean squat, the players dont' give a flying shit, the coaches don't game plan, there is NOTHING to compare. If the defenses are vanilla, they get even mORE vanilla the further and deeper the depth chart players start filling out the field.

Please stop using pre-season stats. Its absurd.


Well, apparently Clay thinks they mean something.

[vandammage13]

Yeah debating preseason is futile... The only thing we have to go on tebow is 11 TDs vs 3 TOs

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah debating preseason is futile... The only thing we have to go on tebow is 11 TDs vs 3 TOs

and his.333 win %? Or maybe the breakdown of the game film that shows he's REALLY behind?

[slim]

and his.333 win %? Or maybe the breakdown of the game film that shows he's REALLY behind?

Vs. Orton's .379 win % as a Bronco? Or maybe his constant breakdowns in the redzone?

One was a 7 year vet, the other a rookie.

[Ravage!!!]

Vs. Orton's .379 win % as a Bronco? Or maybe his constant breakdowns in the redzone?

One was a 7 year vet, the other a rookie.

Yes, and one only played 3 games against teams that were playing for nothing.

I want Tebow in the game because I loathe Orton, but lets not exaggerate what Tebow accomplished last year. One moment we want to say "and he's only a rookie" when things are good, but when they aren't its "but he's just a rookie." Nothing to lose. The same rookie excuse gets used in his favor no matter what the turn. Can't lose with that.

Orton sucks. I've said that for 3 years now, so you are preaching to the choir on that one.

[vandammage13]

and his.333 win %? Or maybe the breakdown of the game film that shows he's REALLY behind?

Behind as a rookie...You would hope with the more snaps he takes the better he would become. If not then you can move on.

As far as the .333% its a small sample to go on. A bounce here and there and you can turn one of those losses into a win and its up to .666%.....Turn one of Orton's losses into a win and it's still in the .333-.400% range. (don't really feel like doing the math but you get the point.)

But if you just want to go strictly on win% Tebow's rookie numbers of .333% trump that of a 7 year vet's .230% from last year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DAMN YOU ORTON - if ONLY you would have stopped Oakland on their running plays, if ONLY you would not have allowed that punt to be blocked, if ONLY you would not have committed costly penalties, such as holding and offsides on offense, which killed drives, if ONLY you had not committed costly penalties on defense - threads like this would not have been started.

[slim]

but lets not exaggerate what Tebow accomplished last year.


We will have to agree to disagree on this.

A completely raw rookie, that had never taken a snap from under center, etc. etc. comes in and puts up decent stats (without taking any reps in practice during the year)...it's pretty impressive when you think about.

I'm not saying he is going to be an elite QB, but I think he needs an opportunity.

[Northman]

DAMN YOU ORTON - if ONLY you would have stopped Oakland on their running plays, if ONLY you would not have allowed that punt to be blocked, if ONLY you would not have committed costly penalties, such as holding and offsides on offense, which killed drives, if ONLY you had not committed costly penalties on defense - threads like this would not have been started.


If only you had not thrown an costly Int, if only you had not been sacked that forced the invisible fumble.....oh wait.... :lol:

[vandammage13]

Yes, and one only played 3 games against teams that were playing for nothing.

I want Tebow in the game because I loathe Orton, but lets not exaggerate what Tebow accomplished last year. One moment we want to say "and he's only a rookie" when things are good, but when they aren't its "but he's just a rookie." Nothing to lose. The same rookie excuse gets used in his favor no matter what the turn. Can't lose with that.

Orton sucks. I've said that for 3 years now, so you are preaching to the choir on that one.

I'm not saying we win more with Tebow this year, just saying look at the results and Orton brings nothing to the table as far as winning that Tebow doesn't.

Might as well move on from the guy we know is a bum and give the kid a chance.

If the kid turns out to be a bum as well then go draft someone else who hopefully won't be a bum.

[Northman]

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

A completely raw rookie, that had never taken a snap from under center, etc. etc. comes in and puts up decent stats (without taking any reps in practice during the year)...it's pretty impressive when you think about.

I'm not saying he is going to be an elite QB, but I think he needs an opportunity.


Aside from a couple of individuals this is ALL that most people have said in terms of Tebow and what happened in 3 games. Ive documented and been over it a hundred times. I still have it saved if ANYONE would like me to post it again. He's done no worse or better than some of the best QB's in the game YET done it under far lower circumstances.

Its not about whether he earned in practice, or that he's going to surplant Elway as the GOAT. Its simply about knowing what we have before the draft next year. Its about the fact that we are not SB contenders this year and will not do much better under Orton. Thats it, nothing more. Dont need to read into any more than some of you have.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If only you had not thrown an costly Int, if only you had not been sacked that forced the invisible fumble.....oh wait.... :lol:

And if ONLY those two things happened, and none of the other screwups happened, which Orton had nothing to do with - we would have won. Once again, this was not an Orton loss, but a TOTAL team loss.

[SOCALORADO.]

Aside from a couple of individuals this is ALL that most people have said in terms of Tebow and what happened in 3 games. Ive documented and been over it a hundred times. I still have it saved if ANYONE would like me to post it again. He's done no worse or better than some of the best QB's in the game YET done it under far lower circumstances.

Its not about whether he earned in practice, or that he's going to surplant Elway as the GOAT. Its simply about knowing what we have before the draft next year. Its about the fact that we are not SB contenders this year and will not do much better under Orton. Thats it, nothing more. Dont need to read into any more than some of you have.

Unfortunately i just dont think the FO shares your opinion on TT playing.
I'm sorry, man.

[vandammage13]

Yes, and one only played 3 games against teams that were playing for nothing.

By the way if you want to point out that he was playing agains teams playing for nothing then the same can be said for Orton's last few outings.

49ers, Chargers, Rams, Cards....all bum teams with losing records at the time we played them after week 8...all losses for Orton.

[vandammage13]

DAMN YOU ORTON - if ONLY you would have stopped Oakland on their running plays, if ONLY you would not have allowed that punt to be blocked, if ONLY you would not have committed costly penalties, such as holding and offsides on offense, which killed drives, if ONLY you had not committed costly penalties on defense - threads like this would not have been started.

If only you would have led scoring drives that totalled more than 10 points...

It wasn't entirely his fault we lost but he was a pretty damn big contributer to it.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If only you would have led scoring drives that totalled more than 10 points...

People refuse to look at the total picture - drives were KILLED because of penalties, etc. GEEZ - I am not in love with Orton; however, I refuse to put 100% blame on him for a loss, when it SHOULD be obvious that this was a team loss - offense, defense, special teams. Yesterday, Alfred Williams said that the defense had a terrible game.

[vandammage13]

People refuse to look at the total picture - drives were KILLED because of penalties, etc. GEEZ - I am not in love with Orton; however, I refuse to put 100% blame on him for a loss, when it SHOULD be obvious that this was a team loss - offense, defense, special teams. Yesterday, Alfred Williams said that the defense had a terrible game.

^^^See my edited post above..I added that in there.

He didn't help matters much with his INT that was a 6 point swing, and his fumble that cost us 7 points.

Not to mention his plethora of passes thrown into the dirt which is why Tebow supposedly isn't out there....

[Northman]

And if ONLY those two things happened, and none of the other screwups happened, which Orton had nothing to do with - we would have won. Once again, this was not an Orton loss, but a TOTAL team loss.


Sure, the team helped with penalties and such. But the two turnovers by Orton are on him, no one else. You dont win turning the ball over. You dont win when you have time in the pocket and your throwing behind receivers and into the ground. The line had some bad moments but lets not overexaggerate that. They are young and will make mistakes. Orton is a veteran and should be playing much better than he is.

[Northman]

Unfortunately i just dont think the FO shares your opinion on TT playing.
I'm sorry, man.

It doesnt matter if they do or dont. Im simply expressing myself on a messageboard.

[vandammage13]

It doesnt matter if they do or dont. Im simply expressing myself on a messageboard.

They will be forced to soon enough...

Not because of the fans but because of Orton's play.

[Nomad]

Orton's the hero if the BRONCOS win and he's the zero if they lose! He lost to the Raider's at home AGAIN.....what more is there to say. And if you read postgame reviews or come up with your own, our somewhat of a defense was already exhausted before Orton's ineptness!

[NightTerror218]

And if ONLY those two things happened, and none of the other screwups happened, which Orton had nothing to do with - we would have won. Once again, this was not an Orton loss, but a TOTAL team loss.

If only he could score in Redzone after fumble recovery. If only he read the blitzes and called correct audibles to throw short out passes, or short passes over hte middle to beat the blitzes. If only he did not fail on 3rd downs. If he led his receivers rather then throwing in dirt and behind them (52 fricking %). If only he got ball out of pocket quicker rather then staring at Llyod and telegraphing his throws. OL did have problems but they are young and could not pick up all the blitzes. They were unable to make holes for RB.....because Raiders had more guys in the box. Raiders did not fear Ortons are and just rushed him forcing him to beat them passing and he didnt.

He ****** up this game.

The offense did not suck at running the ball. But if Orton was able to beat the blitz then Raiders would have backed off the blitzing and so many guys in the box so that the running game would have worked better.

The defense is another story. The needed to stop the run. They held raiders to 23 points rather then 40+. But they did ok with all the injured that occurred prior to game and during game.

Only reason it was not a blow out was because Decker returned a punt.....and because the Raiders are undisciplined and had so many penalties. Basically the Raiders owned us.

[vandammage13]

If only he could score in Redzone after fumble recovery. If only he read the blitzes and called correct audibles to throw short out passes, or short passes over hte middle to beat the blitzes. If only he did not fail on 3rd downs. If he led his receivers rather then throwing in dirt and behind them (52 fricking %). If only he got ball out of pocket quicker rather then staring at Llyod and telegraphing his throws. OL did have problems but they are young and could not pick up all the blitzes. They were unable to make holes for RB.....because Raiders had more guys in the box. Raiders did not fear Ortons are and just rushed him forcing him to beat them passing and he didnt.

He f*cked up this game.

The offense did not suck at running the ball. But if Orton was able to beat the blitz then Raiders would have backed off the blitzing and so many guys in the box so that the running game would have worked better.

The defense is another story. The needed to stop the run. They held raiders to 23 points rather then 40+. But they did ok with all the injured that occurred prior to game and during game.

Only reason it was not a blow out was because Decker returned a punt.....and because the Raiders are undisciplined and had so many penalties. Basically the Raiders owned us.

That game should have not been close at all...Raiders tried to give it away but then Orton happened...

[SOCALORADO.]

They will be forced to soon enough...

Not because of the fans but because of Orton's play.

Unfortunately i dont think the FO shares your opinion about being forced to do anything.
I am sorry man.

[vandammage13]

Unfortunately i dont think the FO shares your opinion about being forced to do anything.
I am sorry man.

So you're saying a QB's horrid play has never forced a change??

How long have you been watching football?

[Northman]

So you're saying a QB's horrid play has never forced a change??

How long have you been watching football?


He's just trolling.


Love the guy but he's just trolling for responses man.


Luck pic in 3......2.......1..... :lol:

[zbeg]

So you're saying a QB's horrid play has never forced a change??

How long have you been watching football?

The problem is the offensive line, not the quarterback. Put Tebow behind that line and you're going to see a similarly ineffective QB, except now you've got a young QB taking a ton of pressure, which historically is pretty bad for a young QB's development.

The problem isn't Orton (or Moreno). It's the line. It all starts up front, and the Broncos are getting whipped up front. If you don't fix that, nothing else matters.

[Northman]

The problem is the offensive line, not the quarterback. Put Tebow behind that line and you're going to see a similarly ineffective QB, except now you've got a young QB taking a ton of pressure, which historically is pretty bad for a young QB's development.

The problem isn't Orton (or Moreno). It's the line. It all starts up front, and the Broncos are getting whipped up front. If you don't fix that, nothing else matters.

Incorrect. The line is just a small part of the problem. QB is a bigger issue than the line right now.

[SOCALORADO.]

He's just trolling.


Love the guy but he's just trolling for responses man.


Luck pic in 3......2.......1..... :lol:

I am not trolling, i just dont think the FO cares about TT in any way.

[Nomad]

After reading this at BM, I went and splashed water on my face, put away the small brown paperbag, gun back in the gun cabinet and feel a calming effect! :D

Supposedly this is Elway's tweet about Orton....

Elway just tweeted:

We're all disappointed with the outcome of our first game, but there's still a lot of football left to be played....

If decisions were made based on one week, i'd have been outta here after my first start....

[NightTerror218]

The problem is the offensive line, not the quarterback. Put Tebow behind that line and you're going to see a similarly ineffective QB, except now you've got a young QB taking a ton of pressure, which historically is pretty bad for a young QB's development.

The problem isn't Orton (or Moreno). It's the line. It all starts up front, and the Broncos are getting whipped up front. If you don't fix that, nothing else matters.

Its more then that. Orton needs to be able to beat the blitz and recognize it is coming. Raiders blitzed a lot against us and Orton did nothing to beat it. All it would have take was a little out route or a short pass across the middle. Orton needed to call correct audibles when blitzes were coming. He needed to read the blitzes....he could not read the defense against the Raiders.....period.

[weazel]

It doesnt matter if they do or dont. Im simply expressing myself on a messageboard.

I just enjoy North posting... he can post as much as he wants. As long as he keeps the Bryci avatar's

[I Eat Staples]

The loss was definitely a total team loss, but Orton sure did play a big part in it. That phantom fumble killed me, but I can't be too hard on him for that. I have a much bigger problem with him locking onto Lloyd every play and stepping right into the rush. Those things are inexcusable for a 7 year vet. You can't really teach a QB how to not drop the ball when he isn't being touched, it was just one of those c'mon man plays that everyone has now and again.

Too bad we didn't have Ed Hochuli to cheat for us this time. :lol:

[Bullgator]

Every play has an "option tree" and its called "reading progressions" and Tebow showed in every game he gets in that he's not ready to do it.

no sir, a progression is after the snap... and only involve your receivers. that is totally diff from 3-5 plays to call presnap once the D is set. as of now there is a called play and if your allowed, you can audible out of it. two way diff things.

[Bullgator]

and his.333 win %? Or maybe the breakdown of the game film that shows he's REALLY behind?

Hold on rav.. what was KOs win% last year???????????????????????????

HE WAS A ROOK WHAT THE **** DO YOU EXPECT! OF COURSE HES BEHIND!

But hes STILL better than KO right out of the gate, as a green rook.

Haters gonna hate man.. you have free will and you choose it to hate on TT. He could win 4 SB and you would still say it was despite him.

[zbeg]

Incorrect. The line is just a small part of the problem. QB is a bigger issue than the line right now.

Why is that incorrect? I'm all for having a discussion, but there's no value in just saying, "incorrect" and saying nothing else. Explain to me why it's incorrect.

[MOtorboat]

no sir, a progression is after the snap... and only involve your receivers. that is totally diff from 3-5 plays to call presnap once the D is set. as of now there is a called play and if your allowed, you can audible out of it. two way diff things.

He can barely run the right play, let alone have three to five others in his head ready to whip out there, after he reads the defense, which he is't really showing he can do, either.

Tebow doesn't have the luxury of hitting the X button and scrolling through five play diagrams.

[MileHighCrew]

He can barely run the right play, let alone have three to five others in his head ready to whip out there, after he reads the defense, which he is't really showing he can do, either.

Tebow doesn't have the luxury of hitting the X button and scrolling through five play diagrams.

What a great idea though, a bendable LED touchscreen on the forearm with 3D diagrams for in the huddle.

[muse]

Too bad we didn't have Ed Hochuli to cheat for us this time. :lol:

That's the difference between a franchise and an average QB - a franchise QB can make a phantom fumble look like a forward pass :lol:

[Ravage!!!]

What a great idea though, a bendable LED touchscreen on the forearm with 3D diagrams for in the huddle.

Better yet, a hud display over the eyes of the QB so he doesn't have to take his eyes off the field and can scroll through things from his wristband

[MileHighCrew]

Better yet, a hud display over the eyes of the QB so he doesn't have to take his eyes off the field and can scroll through things from his wristband

they could do that with the clear visor like we have in our airplanes.

[Jsteve01]

Orton has had 7 turnovers in his last 3 games.

Ratings of
46.3
27.1
71.3

Where is the stability in sacks inside the 5, fumbles on crucial drives, ints, balls thrown in the grass at the feet of receivers, locking onto receivers while others are wide open... If anything needs to be tweaked due to being weak it is this.

Tebow had a nearly 3 TDs and 300 yard average in his first three starts as a rookie, his last 3 games.

Tebow being a threat to unseat Elway as the be all end all of Broncos fan lore, has Elway unseating Tebow. Turnabout fair play?

Elway betrays Mcd's trust by getting him fired, then takes over the team, and treats McD's young upstart as if he was a redheaded step child, unworthy of going to the ball, this all the meanwhile sending Orton to the ball. Pun intended. :salute:

Imagine the coach we could have brought in using the 9 Million and the millions spent on Fox~!!

Its too bad Elway wanted to have so much control of the team, to the point of getting turn down for interviews, not to mention turned down by Good Coaches to the point of being forced to settle for a coach who actually had a worst season than the one he had fired: if that was even possible. :tsk:

To make matters worse Elway lords over Tebow after every practice torturing him by being forced to subject himself to the very person responsible for placing him at the end of the bench, responsible for making him helpless in watching his teams demise, rubbing salt in the wounds, wounds that Elway was afraid to possess by the threat of Tebow unseating Elway as the all time King of denver Broncos Football.

Elway has taken the role of Ceaser, and he is currently in an attempt to kill the heir to the throne. This while all the meanwhile the fans are getting a first hand view with front row seats to the bloodbath as a result, and despite all the chants for Tebow, Elway holds the bridal tight on Fox, putting the breaks on giving Tebow any opportunity whatsoever to save the day.

WOW.....just when I thought Jagz grammar and posturing couldn't get any worse. You guys do realize you're in the presence of greatness right now correct? Hey Jagz, when do you start referring to yourself in the 3rd person and mentioning that you're professional reporter (albeit for bleacherrreport)?


I sure hope someone already added the appropriate tags to this pile of steaming turds. What a ridiculous piece of garbage.

[Ravage!!!]

WOW.....just when I thought Jagz grammar and posturing couldn't get any worse. You guys do realize you're in the presence of greatness right now correct? Hey Jagz, when do you start referring to yourself in the 3rd person and mentioning that you're professional reporter (albeit for bleacherrreport)?


I sure hope someone already added the appropriate tags to this pile of steaming turds. What a ridiculous piece of garbage.

Trust me. Jags was here and run off for a while... until recently. Between he and Bullgator, its hard to stomach.

[Ravage!!!]

they could do that with the clear visor like we have in our airplanes.

zackly

[Jsteve01]

I like Bull. Jagz is a Tebow/McDaniels fanboi. you do realize that Jagz thinks McD should still be the head coach of the Broncos. and that he was never a Broncs fan until they drafted Tebow.

[muse]

Better yet, a hud display over the eyes of the QB so he doesn't have to take his eyes off the field and can scroll through things from his wristband

Actually, that sort of technology isn't far off (I'm working with related electronic devices) - I think we should see flexible plastic-based displays in the mainstream consumer market in about 5 years or so.

Of course, the ULTIMATE would be a wristband which projects a hologram of the plays in the huddle. That would be awesome :lol:

[Jsteve01]

Actually, that sort of technology isn't far off (I'm working with related electronic devices) - I think we should see flexible plastic-based displays in the mainstream consumer market in about 5 years or so.

Of course, the ULTIMATE would be a wristband which projects a hologram of the plays in the huddle. That would be awesome :lol:

Somewhere Steve Scarnecchia is getting very excited

[muse]

Somewhere Steve Scarnecchia is getting very excited

I love this video:

ntw7G7enxEk

Then I remember that was our team and it makes me sad.

[Bullgator]

He can barely run the right play, let alone have three to five others in his head ready to whip out there, after he reads the defense, which he is't really showing he can do, either.

Tebow doesn't have the luxury of hitting the X button and scrolling through five play diagrams.

He has no problem running the play thats called, he has a problem running for his life cuz its a jailbreak every snap.

At UF he called every play. He analyzed the look he got from the D and called the appropriate play. dont give me no bullshit that calling plays in college are somehow different lol. you guys are just making shit up now.

just put him in the gun and let him go! aaatttiiicaaaa!

[claymore]

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/798370/134608.gif

[Denver Native (Carol)]

He has no problem running the play thats called, he has a problem running for his life cuz its a jailbreak every snap.

At UF he called every play. He analyzed the look he got from the D and called the appropriate play. dont give me no bullshit that calling plays in college are somehow different lol. you guys are just making shit up now.

just put him in the gun and let him go! aaatttiiicaaaa!

To the best of knowledge - there is only ONE QB playing today who calls his own plays - that is Peyton Manning. And I would not imagine he has done that since day one.

[MOtorboat]

To the best of knowledge - there is only ONE QB playing today who calls his own plays - that is Peyton Manning. And I would not imagine he has done that since day one.

Tebow didn't call his own plays at Florida...not even sure where that's coming from. At the college level, and especially in Urban Meyer's offense, options are built in to each play (that's why they call it a Spread Option offense). Maybe he means the zone read stuff, I don't know. I don't think he has a clue what he's talking about.

[Lancane]

Tebow didn't call his own plays at Florida...not even sure where that's coming from. At the college level, and especially in Urban Meyer's offense, options are built in to each play (that's why they call it a Spread Option offense). Maybe he means the zone read stuff, I don't know. I don't think he has a clue what he's talking about.

Probably meant audible plays! ;)

[MOtorboat]

Probably meant audible plays! ;)

He didn't call those either. In Meyer's offense, the offensive coordinator calls in the audibles from the booth, and the quarterback/running back/ wide receivers check with the sideline for adjustments.

[Lancane]

He didn't call those either. In Meyer's offense, the offensive coordinator calls in the audibles from the booth, and the quarterback/running back/ wide receivers check with the sideline for adjustments.

Huh...didn't know that, it's pretty sorry if you can't even trust your quarterback with basic audible plays though. Not surprised, I know Coach Saban was the same with the offense at Michigan State, but it was different for the defense.

[MOtorboat]

Huh...didn't know that, it's pretty sorry if you can't even trust your quarterback with basic audible plays though. Not surprised, I know Coach Saban was the same with the offense at Michigan State, but it was different for the defense.

I'm sure by his senior season he was making a few calls, but that's a staple of the spread offense in college. They call two plays in the first huddle of the drive, run the first, hurry to the line and then the quarterback, wide receivers and running backs check with the sideline for adjustments. Those adjustments come from the offensive coordinator in the booth, based on the alignment and personnel of the defense. Now, Florida did less of it in his last two years than, say, Auburn, Oregon and Missouri, but that's how the offense operates. It's another reason why NFL coaches stray away from Spread quarterbacks.

[Bullgator]

I'm sure by his senior season he was making a few calls, but that's a staple of the spread offense in college. They call two plays in the first huddle of the drive, run the first, hurry to the line and then the quarterback, wide receivers and running backs check with the sideline for adjustments. Those adjustments come from the offensive coordinator in the booth, based on the alignment and personnel of the defense. Now, Florida did less of it in his last two years than, say, Auburn, Oregon and Missouri, but that's how the offense operates. It's another reason why NFL coaches stray away from Spread quarterbacks.

less? None is more like it.. the spread is the spread... the calls either come from the sideline or the QB in UFs case it was the QB. Im going to find a clip of TT talking about it.