Knowshon Moreno is a Below Average RB

[Buff]

With Orton getting most of the hate, I wanted to devote an entire thread to this complete bust of a draft pick.

I've been making excuses for this guy for three years now and I'm done. He is too slow to be a first string NFL back. His vision is far below average - bordering on god awful. How many times has he hit the wrong hole, or failed to hit any hole at all while dancing around in the backfield? He has zero durability - the guy seems to come out mid-series limping all the time.

He is not a leader and has been a huge disappointment ever since he held out for half of training camp and then came in and promptly got hurt in his rookie year. Woody Paige said that people in the McDaniels regime called him a wimp.

Really his only redeeming qualities are his occasional ability to juke a defender and his decent hands catching balls out of the backfield. But how often have either of those skills translated into any meaningful production for this team?

He reminds me a lot of Mike Bell... Except not as tough. Or talented.

If the Patriots were able to find a team dumb enough to give up a pick for Larry Maroney, surely we can get a draft pick out of this joker before the rest of the league realizes he is completely and utterly useless.

[BeefStew25]

When you have lost Buff, you have lost middle amercia.

[MOtorboat]

A bad offensive line and a scheme that doesn't cater to running backs aren't excuses. They are factors that Moreno has no control over.

[hotcarl]

yeah he sucks and anyone who says different doesn't understand football (NFL football)

[Buff]

When you have lost Buff, you have lost middle amercia.

He doesn't pass the eyeball test. He doesn't have good stats. He isn't well liked by his teammates. He can't separate himself from a guy like Lance Ball. I mean, who are we kidding running this guy out there every week?

Sorry I didn't loop today, meetings all day. Was the tailgate good at least?

[sneakers]

Knowshon hitting the wrong hole sounds like a personal problem.

[chazoe60]

Catain obvious is a leftist.

[Buff]

A bad offensive line and a scheme that doesn't cater to running backs aren't excuses. They are factors that Moreno has no control over.

Steven Jackson seemed to be fine in the scheme before he hurt his quad last week. Danny Effing Woodhead moves the ball in the scheme.

There are two pro bowlers on the o-line. We should be getting more out of this guy.

[hotcarl]

Knowshon hitting the wrong hole sounds like a personal problem.

It's more of a personal CHOICE IMO

[BeefStew25]

He doesn't pass the eyeball test. He doesn't have good stats. He isn't well liked by his teammates. He can't separate himself from a guy like Lance Ball. I mean, who are we kidding running this guy out there every week?

Sorry I didn't loop today, meetings all day. Was the tailgate good at least?

Yes. We found a dude with a Bill Gates tattoo.

[Buff]

Catain obvious is a leftist.

I don't troll your threads and tell everyone what a ******* douchebag you are, so g-t-f-o.

[hotcarl]

I don't troll your threads and tell everyone what a ******* douchebag you are, so g-t-f-o.

you should that guy is a douchebag

[chazoe60]

I feel the love.


On topic.

We really don't know how good Moreno can be because he's rarely not had the line pushed back in his face when given the ball. We've been arguably the worst OL all three years he's been in the league.

[MOtorboat]

Steven Jackson seemed to be fine in the scheme before he hurt his quad last week. Danny Effing Woodhead moves the ball in the scheme.

There are two pro bowlers on the o-line. We should be getting more out of this guy.

The Rams have spent way too much money on their offensive line and the Patriots have been a very consistent organization when it comes to building the offensive line.

This offensive line is epically bad, despite the "pro-bowlers" claim. Clady has not been good since getting injured.

Moreno isn't the problem. He may not be the solution, but he sure as hell isn't the problem.

[CoachChaz]

Not necessarily defending Moreno, but other than Hillis' good 2 games three years ago...when was the last time any back on this team truly impressed anyone? If you cant come up with a viable answer over the last 4-5 years...you cant really pin the blame on Moreno either. This downward spiral did not begin with him.

Now...any chance we can collectively quit whining about how a bad team is playing bad...just for a few minutes anyway.

[hotcarl]

all I have to say is this team sucks shit I'll see you all at the ******* super bowl I guess :confused::salute::tsk::beer::shocked:

[Agent of Orange]

Moreno sucks. They seriously need to upgrade Moreno. He is part of the problem and needs to be upgraded.

[hotcarl]

Moreno sucks. They seriously need to upgrade Moreno. He is part of the problem and needs to be upgraded.

He needs more RAM

[Buff]

Not necessarily defending Moreno, but other than Hillis' good 2 games three years ago...when was the last time any back on this team truly impressed anyone? If you cant come up with a viable answer over the last 4-5 years...you cant really pin the blame on Moreno either. This downward spiral did not begin with him.

Now...any chance we can collectively quit whining about how a bad team is playing bad...just for a few minutes anyway.

I come to this site to whine about how bad my team is playing - especially the day after losing to the Raiders - sorry if that bothers you.

And just because we've zero talent at the position for 4-5 years doesn't mean that Moreno is a good player. That argument doesn't even address Moreno, that just shows a deficiency in the front office in terms of evaluating RB and OL talent.

[tubby]

Injury Prone Jersey Clown

[jhildebrand]

This OL has been built, initially by Shanahan, to be a pocket passing line first. Even Shanahan was quoted on his dislike for their run blocking including Clady. It hasn't gotten better. I truly believe that is the reason we only see an average of 14 running plays per game-it is just that obvious to the 2 most recent coaching staffs.

Now, should this team be truly committed to running the ball as they have said, I would think a guy like Andre Gurode who can play any spot along the O line would have been called the second he cleared waivers.

[Ravage!!!]

It didn't begin with him, but it certainly hasn't ended with Moreno. I think its time to put the cork in this guy. He's proved that he's not worthy of the 1st round pick.

He's slow and he's not dynamic. He's neither a bruiser nor a speedster.

[CoachChaz]

I come to this site to whine about how bad my team is playing - especially the day after losing to the Raiders - sorry if that bothers you.

And just because we've zero talent at the position for 4-5 years doesn't mean that Moreno is a good player. That argument doesn't even address Moreno, that just shows a deficiency in the front office in terms of evaluating RB and OL talent.

It doesnt "bother" me...just thought we could have one day where this place didnt sound like The View or The Talk.

The point you are missing is without talent anywhere else...how the hell would we know if we had talent in the backfield? Or anywhere else for that matter

[CoachChaz]

This OL has been built, initially by Shanahan, to be a pocket passing line first. Even Shanahan was quoted on his dislike for their run blocking including Clady. It hasn't gotten better. I truly believe that is the reason we only see an average of 14 running plays per game-it is just that obvious to the 2 most recent coaching staffs.

Now, should this team be truly committed to running the ball as they have said, I would think a guy like Andre Gurode who can play any spot along the O line would have been called the second he cleared waivers.

He's damn sure better than Walton

[Buff]

It doesnt "bother" me...just thought we could have one day where this place didnt sound like The View or The Talk.

The point you are missing is without talent anywhere else...how the hell would we know if we had talent in the backfield? Or anywhere else for that matter

Well if you were looking for a drama-free day at the boards, I might suggest taking the day off after the Raiders drub us at home.

But to the point - I think the arguments about talent surrounding Moreno are disingenuous. If he was a real talent we would see that on display. Brandon Lloyd still finds a way to shine on a bad offense. Why don't we make the same excuses for other underperformers on the offense?

Plus, we've seen him miss enough holes, or cut the wrong way, or slip inadvertently, or get caught from behind to know what kind of talent we're dealing with here.

[Tned]

Not necessarily defending Moreno, but other than Hillis' good 2 games three years ago...when was the last time any back on this team truly impressed anyone? If you cant come up with a viable answer over the last 4-5 years...you cant really pin the blame on Moreno either. This downward spiral did not begin with him.

Now...any chance we can collectively quit whining about how a bad team is playing bad...just for a few minutes anyway.

My problem with this is '09. There was a big difference in production between Buckhalter and Moreno behind the same line. Statistically, I think it was 5.2 vs. 3.8 YPC, but beyond the stats, the difference was visible in how Buckhalter found the holes and quickly shot to the second level for 5-10 yard gains, while more times than not Moreno ran into the backs of his linemen and fell forward for 1-4 yards, but had a few big runs here or there to bring his YPC up.

[igoe4broncos]

Yeah, Knowshon just isn't very good. He dropped a few pounds this year, but he still looks slow and sluggish with the ball in his hand. He can't break a tackle, but he is good for one juke move a game (oh yeah, and a fumble too).

And when he does break into the open field for a nice run, he usually precedes to run into his own lineman or slip and fall down on his own. It's almost like he is cursed. Has anyone else noticed this?

[jhildebrand]

He's damn sure better than Walton

And Beadles and Franklin and probably Kuper, too.

A move like that would show a true commitment to the run. It would also solidify one side of the line. But as it stands now both sides are inexperienced. That never bodes well.

[hotcarl]

Yeah, Knowshon just isn't very good. He dropped a few pounds this year, but he still looks slow and sluggish with the ball in his hand. He can't break a tackle, but he is good for one juke move a game (oh yeah, and a fumble too).

And when he does break into the open field for a nice run, he usually precedes to run into his own lineman or slip and fall down on his own. It's almost like he is cursed. Has anyone else noticed this?

He's not cursed he's just a below average NFL running back ...i.e. he sucks

[DenBronx]

Yeah I agree with this thread. I gave Moreno support until last night.

He's a bum.


Deffinitely below average.


Tatum Bell was better and that's not saying much. Even last night Peyton Hillis would have racked up yards for us. Moreno just doesnt have what it takes to be a Bronco. Now I can see why Marshall was in his grill on the sidelines a couple of years ago.

[DenBronx]

What sucks even more are the guys we passed up for Moreno and Ayers. Not to mention all of the other blown picks.

Worst drafts in our history.

If we would have taken Dez, Orakpo or Clay Matthews ect. we would have been in much better shape.

[tomjonesrocks]

He sucks.

Outright.

Tired of any defense of the guy. One of the worst starting RBs in the last 15 years for the Broncos.

Decent-but-overrated blocker and part-time receiver and that's it. Has no elusiveness or power whatsoever.

He is good at celebrating when the team is down by four touchdowns, though...

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'm not trying to defend Moreno, but looking at our running game objectively, have any of our RBs really produced since '08? Our run blocking has been atrocious and even guys who averaged over 4 YPC elsewhere have had a bad time here. We keep blaming the RBs (Buck, Moreno, Ball, Maroney, McGahee), but when does the blame fall on the offensive line and scheme?

Seriously, are Arian Foster, Ben Tate, And Derrick Ward all so much better than the guys we have or is it because they play in a better scheme with a FEARED PASSING GAME that prevents defenses from putting 8 in the box every down? The fact that we have a QB that nobody really respects to beat them with his arm or his feet and an offensive line that seems to be in a constant state of flux between scheme and personnel every year, are just as big a factor as the talent of our RBs. I think Moreno looks great in space, but there just aren't many holes for him to run through, especially between the tackles. We also don't have a real FB lead blocking.

When we finally get our head out of our ass as a franchise and actually commit to running the ball, then I'll start critiquing the RBs harder. When a guy is averaging 10 carries per game, almost all on first down, and the runs are right into the teeth of a defense loaded up to stop it, is it really an impartial comparison?

I honestly don't believe that Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson could be productive behind this line in this scheme. We have a career college Tackle playing Guard and a career college Guard playing Tackle.

[Buff]

I'm not trying to defend Moreno, but looking at our running game objectively, have any of our RBs really produced since '08? Our run blocking has been atrocious and even guys who averaged over 4 YPC elsewhere have had a bad time here. We keep blaming the RBs (Buck, Moreno, Ball, Maroney, McGahee), but when does the blame fall on the offensive line and scheme?

Seriously, are Arian Foster, Ben Tate, And Derrick Ward all so much better than the guys we have or is it because they play in a better scheme with a FEARED PASSING GAME that prevents defenses from putting 8 in the box every down? The fact that we have a QB that nobody really respects to beat them with his arm or his feet and an offensive line that seems to be in a constant state of flux between scheme and personnel every year, are just as big a factor as the talent of our RBs. I think Moreno looks great in space, but there just aren't many holes for him to run through, especially between the tackles. We also don't have a real FB lead blocking.

When we finally get our head out of our ass as a franchise and actually commit to running the ball, then I'll start critiquing the RBs harder. When a guy is averaging 10 carries per game, almost all on first down, and the runs are right into the teeth of a defense loaded up to stop it, is it really an impartial comparison?

Here is my main problem with this argument. It implies that we are somehow unable to properly evaluate the RB position because the offense has been bad. The RB position has been a problem along with a lot of other positions/players. We don't make excuses for the center because the guards play badly.

Also, I'd refer back to Tned's stat about YPC with Buck and Moreno behind the same line.

And as far as Moreno in space - yeah, he can juke a guy laterally really well... But it doesn't do him any good when he is getting run down by a d-lineman from behind.

[Ravage!!!]

Here is my main problem with this argument. It implies that we are somehow unable to properly evaluate the RB position because the offense has been bad. The RB position has been a problem along with a lot of other positions/players. We don't make excuses for the center because the guards play badly.

Also, I'd refer back to Tned's stat about YPC with Buck and Moreno behind the same line.

And as far as Moreno in space - yeah, he can juke a guy laterally really well... But it doesn't do him any good when he is getting run down by a d-lineman from behind.

Bingo on all fronts

[BroncoJoe]

Last year Knowshon averaged 4.3
Last year Buck averaged 2.5

I think they were behind the same O-Line.

[Agent of Orange]

I'm not trying to defend Moreno, but looking at our running game objectively, have any of our RBs really produced since '08? Our run blocking has been atrocious and even guys who averaged over 4 YPC elsewhere have had a bad time here. We keep blaming the RBs (Buck, Moreno, Ball, Maroney, McGahee), but when does the blame fall on the offensive line and scheme?

Seriously, are Arian Foster, Ben Tate, And Derrick Ward all so much better than the guys we have or is it because they play in a better scheme with a FEARED PASSING GAME that prevents defenses from putting 8 in the box every down? The fact that we have a QB that nobody really respects to beat them with his arm or his feet and an offensive line that seems to be in a constant state of flux between scheme and personnel every year, are just as big a factor as the talent of our RBs. I think Moreno looks great in space, but there just aren't many holes for him to run through, especially between the tackles. We also don't have a real FB lead blocking.

When we finally get our head out of our ass as a franchise and actually commit to running the ball, then I'll start critiquing the RBs harder. When a guy is averaging 10 carries per game, almost all on first down, and the runs are right into the teeth of a defense loaded up to stop it, is it really an impartial comparison?

I honestly don't believe that Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson could be productive behind this line in this scheme. We have a career college Tackle playing Guard and a career college Guard playing Tackle.

Moreno, like Orton, is a hot turd in a paper sack.

[DenBronx]

I'm tired as a fan of mediocre or worse players on the team.

We're not supposed to be the Detriot Lions or the oakland raiders. :tsk:



Maybe Bowlen is the one that needs to go. He's been a good owner but he is turning Al Davis on us.

[OaklandRaider]

I've said it for a while now, but there is nothing special about Knowshon Moreno. There is no area of his game where you can say he is outstanding at. He is either average or below average is most areas. He's not big, he's not fast, he can't make people miss, he fumbles, he lacks vision, he can't create on his own. He's a good pass catcher, and a decent blocker but other than that - theres not much to like about Moreno's game. He's just "meh"......which would be okay if he was a third or fourth round draft pick. But he was drafted 12th overall and being "meh" is just not good enough.


Not trying to troll, but take a look at Darren McFadden last night. That's what a first round running back is supposed to look like.

[DenBronx]

I've said it for a while now, but there is nothing special about Knowshon Moreno. There is no area of his game where you can say he is outstanding at. He is either average or below average is most areas. He's not big, he's not fast, he can't make people miss, he fumbles, he lacks vision, he can't create on his own. He's a good pass catcher, and a decent blocker but other than that - theres not much to like about Moreno's game. He's just "meh"......which would be okay if he was a third or fourth round draft pick. But he was drafted 12th overall and being "meh" is just not good enough.


Not trying to troll, but take a look at Darren McFadden last night. That's what a first round running back is supposed to look like.



No, I think 90% of Bronco fans will agree with this.

Most of us wanted Shonn Greene in the 3rd. At least he will carry you into the endzone.

[BroncoStud]

Moreno can catch well and he's good in the open field. But he isn't an every-down run up the middle or even off-tackle RB. He's too fragile, slow, and weak.

If he's being used as anything other than a receiving back then he isn't being utilized properly.

Oh, this just in, Willis McGahee sucks too. Ball might be the best option on this team, neither Willis or Moreno is worthy of being a starter in the NFL.

[dogfish]

man, is U29 gonna be pissed when he finds this. . . .



The Rams have spent way too much money on their offensive line

okay, thanks joe elli$!


:welcome:

[zbeg]

I think Moreno definitely has above average physical talent, but two things are preventing him from being productive:

1 - His offensive line stinks.
2 - His field vision isn't good.

Behind an average line, I think he'd put up near average results. But the vision thing is pretty damning - maybe he doesn't see the holes opening him in front of him because he's like "holy cow, a running lane!" which happens once every, oh, 15 running plays or so.

OTOH, I don't think it's worth that much to get concerned over who's running the ball. It could be Knowshown Moreno or Eric Dickerson, and with that offensive line, the difference between a good and a bad running back is going to be marginal.

So yeah, maybe Moreno sucks. Maybe he doesn't. I'm not sure. But I don't think it matters that much right now. "It all starts up front" is a very apt expression, and until the o-line gets the job done, the offensive skill players aren't going to be successful - no matter who they are.

[CrazyHorse]

No, I think 90% of Bronco fans will agree with this.

Most of us wanted Shonn Greene in the 3rd. At least he will carry you into the endzone.

I actually wanted Moreno. He was the highest rated RB in the draft that year. He hasn't lived up to the hype though.
I think it's pretty obvious Moreno's strengths seem to be best suited for a 3rd down back and not a starter.

[claymore]

Buff, Im with you on this one. Im not defending him anymore. Although I dont know of any running backs besides Barry Sanders that would be good in this system.

Knowshon just disappoints. There is no other way to say it.

I say the F word alot in general, but I said the F word probably 2000 times during the game on Monday.

[SOCALORADO.]

My problem with this is '09. There was a big difference in production between Buckhalter and Moreno behind the same line. Statistically, I think it was 5.2 vs. 3.8 YPC, but beyond the stats, the difference was visible in how Buckhalter found the holes and quickly shot to the second level for 5-10 yard gains, while more times than not Moreno ran into the backs of his linemen and fell forward for 1-4 yards, but had a few big runs here or there to bring his YPC up.

Nailed it. The "injury prone", slow, old, Buckhalter ALWAYS found holes, made plays, hit the 2nd level and pulled away from defenders, and managed to stay productive and somewhat healthy. I mean, the guys like 40 years old, and he was successful. WTH!?!?
I have said it all along, knoshow is a bust. Slow, no vision, ALWAYS INJURED.
Dump him now for a draft pick, since its irrelevant anyways. This team is in a 3 year re-build.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Last year Knowshon averaged 4.3
Last year Buck averaged 2.5

I think they were behind the same O-Line.

Buck was pretty beat up last year and was healthy in 09. Knowshon was also well below 4.3 ypc until the last 5 or 6 games of the year.

Part of Knowshon's problem is that he is always dinged up, but that is also why he is a below average back.

His lack of break away speed and elusiveness would be fine if he was a smash mouth type of guy (which he kind of tried to be at times the last couple of years). Mix in his crappy hamstrings, bad conditioning (remember him huffing and puffing on the sidelines after 20 yard runs), and inability to play through pain.

I've been bitching about him since 09 and people would throw up his stats. They would be fine if he was a 3rd round pick, but I'm expecting AP or McFadden type ability for where he was picked.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I actually wanted Moreno. He was the highest rated RB in the draft that year. He hasn't lived up to the hype though.
I think it's pretty obvious Moreno's strengths seem to be best suited for a 3rd down back and not a starter.

Yup, he would be a pretty good 3rd down back. Damn this team needs a lot of draft picks to start rebuilding.

[SOCALORADO.]

Buck was pretty beat up last year and was healthy in 09. Knowshon was also well below 4.3 ypc until the last 5 or 6 games of the year.

Part of Knowshon's problem is that he is always dinged up, but that is also why he is a below average back.

His lack of break away speed and elusiveness would be fine if he was a smash mouth type of guy (which he kind of tried to be at times the last couple of years). Mix in his crappy hamstrings, bad conditioning (remember him huffing and puffing on the sidelines after 20 yard runs), and inability to play through pain.

I've been bitching about him since 09 and people would throw up his stats. They would be fine if he was a 3rd round pick, but I'm expecting AP or McFadden type ability for where he was picked.

I would like to see what Jeremiah Johnson can do. Bring him up.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I would like to see what Jeremiah Johnson can do. Bring him up.

Put frigging Ty Warren on IR and bring up Johnson. Do it!!!!

[BroncoJoe]

Buck was pretty beat up last year and was healthy in 09. Knowshon was also well below 4.3 ypc until the last 5 or 6 games of the year.

Part of Knowshon's problem is that he is always dinged up, but that is also why he is a below average back.

His lack of break away speed and elusiveness would be fine if he was a smash mouth type of guy (which he kind of tried to be at times the last couple of years). Mix in his crappy hamstrings, bad conditioning (remember him huffing and puffing on the sidelines after 20 yard runs), and inability to play through pain.

I've been bitching about him since 09 and people would throw up his stats. They would be fine if he was a 3rd round pick, but I'm expecting AP or McFadden type ability for where he was picked.

I know - and I'm not defending Moreno at all. I think he has more ability than he's shown us, but we'll see. Dude needs patience - he's full steam ahead once he has the ball. Drives me nuts.

As to where he was picked, that's on the Broncos decision makers, not Knowshon.

[vandammage13]

If the Patriots were able to find a team dumb enough to give up a pick for Larry Maroney, surely we can get a draft pick out of this joker before the rest of the league realizes he is completely and utterly useless.

Unfortunately that team was us.....

I don't think we can trade Moreno to ourselves.

[claymore]

Unfortunately that team was us.....

I don't think we can trade Moreno to ourselves.

LOL/:harf:

[Dreadnought]

Olandis Gary
Mike Anderson
Tatum Bell
Mike Bell
Selvin Young
Peyton Hillis

These are the names of more or less recent Denver RB's who were more effective and dynamic than Knowshon Moreno. I still give Moreno the edge over Quentin Griffin, Lamont Jordan, and Laurence Maroney, and he gets a character edge over Travis Henry and Maurice Clarett. He's not the worst we've seen.

[vandammage13]

As bad as Moreno is as a runner, I do think he is pretty talented at catching balls out of the backfield.

Still, not nearly enough to warrant his draft position....

[Mike]

Olandis Gary
Mike Anderson
Tatum Bell
Mike Bell
Selvin Young
Peyton Hillis

These are the names of more or less recent Denver RB's who were more effective and dynamic than Knowshon Moreno. I still give Moreno the edge over Quentin Griffin, Lamont Jordan, and Laurence Maroney, and he gets a character edge over Travis Henry and Maurice Clarett. He's not the worst we've seen.

I don't dispute the premise of your argument, but to be fair, Anderson/the Bells/Young all ran behind relatively solid lines with a proven scheme. I am not sure they have the same kind of success elsewhere...granted Mike Bell is pretty effective in NO.

That said, Moreno will never be a number 1 back or live up to where he was drafted. I have learned to live with that, along with all the other draft disappointments over the years.

Denver has to do something about the o-line though.

[Buff]

Buck was pretty beat up last year and was healthy in 09. Knowshon was also well below 4.3 ypc until the last 5 or 6 games of the year.

Part of Knowshon's problem is that he is always dinged up, but that is also why he is a below average back.

His lack of break away speed and elusiveness would be fine if he was a smash mouth type of guy (which he kind of tried to be at times the last couple of years). Mix in his crappy hamstrings, bad conditioning (remember him huffing and puffing on the sidelines after 20 yard runs), and inability to play through pain.

I've been bitching about him since 09 and people would throw up his stats. They would be fine if he was a 3rd round pick, but I'm expecting AP or McFadden type ability for where he was picked.

This has been my refrain for the last two years and I no longer believe this. I think he would be a crappy 3rd or 4th round pick as well. He just doesn't bring anything to the offense.

[Dzone]

some people just arent made physically to handle tackle football.. ie-Demaryous Thomas and Knowshow Moreno

[BigDaddyBronco]

This has been my refrain for the last two years and I no longer believe this. I think he would be a crappy 3rd or 4th round pick as well. He just doesn't bring anything to the offense.
Some teams use 3rd round picks on 3rd down backs.

[tomjonesrocks]

and he's good in the open field

Wow. I couldn't disagree more. I think he's probably the NFL's worst starting RB in the open field. Guy can't seem to make *anything* happen in the open field from my perspective.

[dogfish]

Buck was pretty beat up last year and was healthy in 09. Knowshon was also well below 4.3 ypc until the last 5 or 6 games of the year.

Part of Knowshon's problem is that he is always dinged up, but that is also why he is a below average back.

His lack of break away speed and elusiveness would be fine if he was a smash mouth type of guy (which he kind of tried to be at times the last couple of years). Mix in his crappy hamstrings, bad conditioning (remember him huffing and puffing on the sidelines after 20 yard runs), and inability to play through pain.

I've been bitching about him since 09 and people would throw up his stats. They would be fine if he was a 3rd round pick, but I'm expecting AP or McFadden type ability for where he was picked.

MO assures me that moreno's conditioning is fine-- that's just a fan myth. . . .


:welcome:

[Dreadnought]

A wise old poster took me to task for the incomplete state on my list. I apologize.


Olandis Gary
Mike Anderson
Reuben Droughns
Tatum Bell
Mike Bell
Selvin Young
Peyton Hillis

These are the names of more or less recent Denver RB's who were more effective and dynamic than Knowshon Moreno. I still give Moreno the edge over Quentin Griffin, Lamont Jordan, and Laurence Maroney, and he gets a character edge over Travis Henry and Maurice Clarett. He's not the worst we've seen.

I also need to know where to place Andre Hall...

[NightTerror218]

I see no way we dont draft a RB at some point next year.

[BORDERLINE]

I hope D.T does not turn out like Moreno.

Week after week he gets trotted out to the field only to get his usual 48 yards on 16 carries.

No speed, No smarts , BIG BUST thanks McDouche

[NorCalBronco7]

Knowshown sucks.

[weazel]

With Orton getting most of the hate, I wanted to devote an entire thread to this complete bust of a draft pick.

I've been making excuses for this guy for three years now and I'm done. He is too slow to be a first string NFL back. His vision is far below average - bordering on god awful. How many times has he hit the wrong hole, or failed to hit any hole at all while dancing around in the backfield? He has zero durability - the guy seems to come out mid-series limping all the time.

He is not a leader and has been a huge disappointment ever since he held out for half of training camp and then came in and promptly got hurt in his rookie year. Woody Paige said that people in the McDaniels regime called him a wimp.

Really his only redeeming qualities are his occasional ability to juke a defender and his decent hands catching balls out of the backfield. But how often have either of those skills translated into any meaningful production for this team?

He reminds me a lot of Mike Bell... Except not as tough. Or talented.

If the Patriots were able to find a team dumb enough to give up a pick for Larry Maroney, surely we can get a draft pick out of this joker before the rest of the league realizes he is completely and utterly useless.

calling Moreno below average is actually a compliment. You must hold him in high regard lol

[ursamajor]

I remember being told by Papapwn that Moreno was 100x better than Forte.

[Krplboy]

I got an idea, let's send him to NE. Then we'll see his lack of eyesight and speed not work for them...oh yeah he'll lose the limping too.

[hotcarl]

Knowshown sucks. yes

[Buff]

calling Moreno below average is actually a compliment. You must hold him in high regard lol

I thought the thread would have more credibility if it was titled something other than "Knowshon ******* Sucks at Football," but I think that would be equally appropriate.

[jhildebrand]

I remember being told by Papapwn that Moreno was 100x better than Forte.

Papapwn is an IDIOT. He also said Hillis would be out of the league after a few games with cleveland. I had a sig bet with him on it at Mania and dude completely weasled out.

[getlynched47]

:(

I like Knowshon Moreno.

I'll give him this season before I completely write him off.

Moreno hasn't been completely useless. 1,748 rushing yards in 2 seasons isn't terrible.

He's super talented, but lacks elite speed. I do agree that he has not lived up to his draft status.

But he hasn't been completely useless.

1,748 rushing yards with a 4.0 average and 12 rushing touchdowns in 2 years.
620 receiving yards with a 9.3 average and 5 receiving touchdowns in 2 years.

Mind you, this is behind a shitty offensive line who's only consistent player is Ryan Clady.

That's far from below-average.

[Ravage!!!]

once again, why stats don't tell the real story. If you could see that other RBs get more yardage behind the same line, see how he misses holes, and see how he never breaks a tackle nor breaks off long runs...... you can see he's at best, VERY average.

and the bold writing, just makes you look ridiculous. :coffee:

[getlynched47]

once again, why stats don't tell the real story. If you could see that other RBs get more yardage behind the same line, see how he misses holes, and see how he never breaks a tackle nor breaks off long runs...... you can see he's at best, VERY average.

and the bold writing, just makes you look ridiculous. :coffee:

Other running backs get more yardage behind the same line?

In 2009, Moreno had 947 rushing yards. Buckhalter had 642. Advantage: Moreno

In 2010, Moreno had 779 rushing yards. Buckhalter and Lance Ball COMBINED had 305. Advantage: Moreno

You don't know he misses holes. I don't know he misses holes. Only coaches know.

He breaks plenty of tackles. Maybe not bulldozing anybody, but he breaks tackles.

I agree, he lacks home-run ability, which is why he hasn't lived up to his #12 overall draft selection.

But he's been productive, the stats show that clearly.

And for your last, retarded statement: Thanks :coffee:

[Bosco]

So much emotion, so little logic and football knowledge.

Look guys, there are a few undeniable facts when it comes to football. First off, when the defense stacks 8 in the box and run blitzes you like the Raiders did, you're not going to be running the ball real well. It's a numbers game and the advantage goes to the defense there. Now normally, you counter this shit by doing one of two things. The first option is to use the quick passing game and PUNISH the defense for that bullshit, forcing them to back off. The second option is to use tight end heavy sets and just bulldoze your way through.

Option 1 requires a competent quarterback who can make pre-snaps read and hot routes. Option 2 requires competent blocking tight ends. Both options require a competent offensive coordinator who can do his job.

Unfortunately, the Broncos currently have NONE of those things. Priorities need to be in place and replacing Moreno would be like trying to redecorate your house while the ******* kitchen is on fire.

[Agent of Orange]

So much emotion, so little logic and football knowledge.

Look guys, there are a few undeniable facts when it comes to football. First off, when the defense stacks 8 in the box and run blitzes you like the Raiders did, you're not going to be running the ball real well. It's a numbers game and the advantage goes to the defense there. Now normally, you counter this shit by doing one of two things. The first option is to use the quick passing game and PUNISH the defense for that bullshit, forcing them to back off. The second option is to use tight end heavy sets and just bulldoze your way through.

Option 1 requires a competent quarterback who can make pre-snaps read and hot routes. Option 2 requires competent blocking tight ends. Both options require a competent offensive coordinator who can do his job.

Unfortunately, the Broncos currently have NONE of those things. Priorities need to be in place and replacing Moreno would be like trying to redecorate your house while the ******* kitchen is on fire.

Take this to the "Orton sucks" threads.

[claymore]

So much emotion, so little logic and football knowledge.

Look guys, there are a few undeniable facts when it comes to football. First off, when the defense stacks 8 in the box and run blitzes you like the Raiders did, you're not going to be running the ball real well. It's a numbers game and the advantage goes to the defense there. Now normally, you counter this shit by doing one of two things. The first option is to use the quick passing game and PUNISH the defense for that bullshit, forcing them to back off. The second option is to use tight end heavy sets and just bulldoze your way through.

Option 1 requires a competent quarterback who can make pre-snaps read and hot routes. Option 2 requires competent blocking tight ends. Both options require a competent offensive coordinator who can do his job.

Unfortunately, the Broncos currently have NONE of those things. Priorities need to be in place and replacing Moreno would be like trying to redecorate your house while the ******* kitchen is on fire.

In other words... Its going to take awhile to replace all the shitty players/OC McD stuck us with.

[Dreadnought]

In other words... Its going to take awhile to replace all the shitty players/OC McD stuck us with.

To your everlasting credit you had that phony smoked out right from the start. Many others in the world of football fandom trashed their own credibility for years to come trying to rationalize that fraud's ineptitude, acting as if he had a actual plan that involved more than admiring himself in the mirror, surrounding himself with chair-sniffers, and congratulating himself for being such a clever little lad. I suspect more than a few now loathe him for making them look so dopey.

You remain wrong about Tebow, of course, but we are all entitled to 2nd and 3rd tier mistakes :D

[claymore]

To your everlasting credit you had that phony smoked out right from the start. Many others in the world of football fandom trashed their own credibility for years to come trying to rationalize that fraud's ineptitude, acting as if he had a actual plan that involved more than admiring himself in the mirror, surrounding himself with chair-sniffers, and congratulating himself for being such a clever little lad. I suspect more than a few now loathe him for making them look so dopey.

You remain wrong about Tebow, of course, but we are all entitled to 2nd and 3rd tier mistakes :D

LOL, we took alot of shit over McDaniels!!!

[TXBRONC]

A bad offensive line and a scheme that doesn't cater to running backs aren't excuses. They are factors that Moreno has no control over.

A system that doesn't cater to running backs? That's not accurate. Fox's teams historically have been good at running the ball.

The Raiders did put eight in box but at the same time we don't have a bell cow to tote the rock.

[TXBRONC]

In other words... Its going to take awhile to replace all the shitty players/OC McD stuck us with.


To your everlasting credit you had that phony smoked out right from the start. Many others in the world of football fandom trashed their own credibility for years to come trying to rationalize that fraud's ineptitude, acting as if he had a actual plan that involved more than admiring himself in the mirror, surrounding himself with chair-sniffers, and congratulating himself for being such a clever little lad. I suspect more than a few now loathe him for making them look so dopey.

You remain wrong about Tebow, of course, but we are all entitled to 2nd and 3rd tier mistakes :D

Clay is the friggin son of Karnak.

[claymore]

Clay is the friggin son of Karnak.

That could be good or bad, I have no idea!!!!!!

[TXBRONC]

That could be good or bad, I have no idea!!!!!!

Oh it's good. It means you're a soothsayer and with that going for ya you have a bright future as carnival sideshow oddity. :nod:

[BeefStew25]

Oh it's good. It means you're a soothsayer and with that going for ya you have a bright future as carnival sideshow oddity. :nod:

Impossible. That is what he does now.

[TXBRONC]

Impossible. That is what he does now.

Not in El Paso. He's to busy ducking stray bullets.

[dogfish]

Oh it's good. It means you're a soothsayer and with that going for ya you have a bright future as carnival sideshow oddity. :nod:

madame claymore. . . .

[Buff]

I thought it was telling when McGahee went down with his hand injury yesterday and Fox turned to Lance Ball in crunch time to take the carries between the tackles. Moreno is dead weight. Average 3rd down backs who lack speed are not hard to find.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I thought it was telling when McGahee went down with his hand injury yesterday and Fox turned to Lance Ball in crunch time to take the carries between the tackles. Moreno is dead weight. Average 3rd down backs who lack speed are not hard to find.

I bet this is his last chance. If he doesn't have a couple of outstanding games and can split carries after Willis comes back, he'll be gone in the off season.

[BeefStew25]

He had a tough ass run yesterday.

[BigDaddyBronco]

He had a tough ass run yesterday.

He is good for one good play a game.

[T.K.O.]

QUOTE=BigDaddyBronco;1411657]I bet this is his last chance. If he doesn't have a couple of outstanding games and can split carries after Willis comes back, he'll be gone in the off season.[/QUOTE]

and no doubt go on to rush for 1300 yds the following season on another team :laugh:
that's been our kinda luck lately:mad:

[silkamilkamonico]

Knowshon Moreno would be a dynamic player in a system like New Orleans or New England. I think he will end up in a place like that after his contract is up and be a special player.

[Ravage!!!]

I haven't seen anything of Moreno that looks special.

[silkamilkamonico]

Knowshon is one of the better receiving RB's in the NFL. Besides, RB's are a dime a dozen in the NFL now. I don't believe they are even that important. But if you have a RB that can catch and run solid routes like Knowshon can they can add an added dimension in the right system.

[Dean]

Moreno IMO is a third down back. There is value in that but it is unfortunate we used a first round pick to obtain him.

[weazel]

Knowshon Moreno would be a dynamic player in a system like New Orleans or New England. I think he will end up in a place like that after his contract is up and be a special player.

you mean an offense that spreads the ball around to numerous players and one player does not get a majority of the workload?

[silkamilkamonico]

you mean an offense that spreads the ball around to numerous players and one player does not get a majority of the workload?

Yes. Considering the best offenses in the NFL don't have one RB carrying the work load anyways, that would be ideal.

[Agent of Orange]

A bad offensive line and a scheme that doesn't cater to running backs aren't excuses. They are factors that Moreno has no control over.

Ha! Thats brilliant. You need to retire that lame excuse. He's being outperformed by a 30 year old running back. The difference between McGahee and Moreno is so substantial that I'd almost rather have them put an old McGahee out there with a broken hand than watch Moreno's garbage.

[Locnar]

I get more joy watching him on the stationary bike than I do watching him in the game..