The real Orton is on full display.

[Agent of Orange]

He's awful.

[underrated29]

Orton for MVP?

too soon:noidea:

[cuzz4169]

I 100% agree. This is a joke.

[sneakers]

Orton is just barely worse than this thread.

[BroncoWave]

But he's SSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO good in practice!

[BroncoStud]

BUT... BUT... He looks SO good in practice, he's the real deal! Chicago was STUPID to trade for Cutler...

What a joke. All those who were changing their tune on Orton based on some media speculation based on hatred for Tebow need to wake up. :rolleyes:

[Buff]

Let's give up a 3rd rounder and go get Kerry Collins while we groom our other 3 QBs.

[Nick]

is anyone really that surprised... Except for 63 yrder............................................. ................ Fn ticks me offs

[vandammage13]

The raiders practically tried to hand us the game in the third with the punt return and all the personal fouls keeping our drives alive and Orton still couldn't get it done.

[camdisco24]

You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

We better get used to this kind of play if he remains our starter.

[TimBuff10]

Now that this recent Orton honeymoon is over, they need to do something quick. I don't know if Tebow or Quinn is the answer but Orton is not the future. The guy may have looked good in the preseason (everyone keeps saying that) but he will not win games.

This game was a snapshot of Orton's career in Denver. Just barely kept his head above water for the first 3 qtrs and then wet the bed both times when it counted. The pick and the fumble/drop killed us. He doesn't do either one of those and we probably win. The only thing saving this guy and keeping his job is all the yards he gets after it is too late and the D is playing prevent as we saw tonight.

I am no Tebow fan, but at this point, he will at least be far more entertaining to watch. The offensive chemistry of this team just sucks with Orton in there. Lets see a balanced attack with the run and pass instead of passing so much.

As for the DTs... Hell, trade Orton for the best DT you can get. Who needs a QB?

Then our biggest problem is the Oline...

[pipes]

And Trent Dilfer claims that Kyle Orton is "mentally tough" due to him playing football while getting booed and having Tim Tebow's name chanted.

This just in... he wouldn't have to be "mentally tough" if he didn't continually make Bronco fans' jaw dropped and think wth was that type of plays. The majority of Denver fans are sick of Orton's crap err play.

Many fans, me included, know that Orton will not take this team to the playoffs or even contend. The team is in rebuilding, why put a QB that you're not going to build around, when Tebow could possibly be that guy? - and if he's not, at least play him to prove that he's not!

The offensive line looks the same as last year, no running lanes. Does anybody remember when Tebow was in there last year....he made running lanes, he made teams respect the run....which, if I do recall...there's an old adage saying that the best way to win a game is to run the ball and to stop the run.

Obviously Tim can't help with stopping the run BUT when he's in there, he helps the running game exponentially!!

[Day1BroncoFan]

If orton was mentally tough we'd have won

[BroncoTech]

The thought that this is going on for another year kills me. I've hated Orton since day one, didn't think he would last 3 games, now it's going on 3 years.

[Clipworthy]

It amazes me. How bad does Orton have to play for the media/announcers to stop babying him? "poor guy, has to hear Tebow chants while he plays". Really? Really...? He deserves every Tebow chant he gets. Why does the rule of "produce or get replaced" somehow not apply to Orton? Is he putting Jack Daniels in the gatorade? This team can be so much better than this, and I really hate this empty feeling I get when I see Orton waddle onto the field. How can a team be so content to lose all the time? Thanks Elway, Fox, Xanders, for another season of this, thanks a lot

[DenBronx]

worthles bum.


hope he gets gangreen and his thumbs fall off.


sadly fox would still keep him in.

[claymore]

He's awful.

Yes he is. Unfortunatley he is the best we have. Think Lenny Walls. He sucked too, but we didnt have anyone better.

[Npba900]

I can't wait until Tim Tebow returns back to the Broncos and under center once his book tour he's been promoting instead of learning how to play football is finally over!!!! :laugh:

[SOCALORADO.]

Yes he is. Unfortunatley he is the best we have. Think Lenny Walls. He sucked too, but we didnt have anyone better.

DEN has officially become the Detriot Lions............back when they sucked...............forever.

[claymore]

I can't wait until Tim Tebow returns back to the Broncos and under center once his book tour he's been promoting instead of learning how to play football is finally over!!!! :laugh:

Wearing his jockey panties on the outside of his uniform. Later sold for $1000 dollars as "game worn" signed authentic Tim Tebow panties.

[Agent of Orange]

Yes he is. Unfortunatley he is the best we have. Think Lenny Walls. He sucked too, but we didnt have anyone better.

No, he's not.

[claymore]

No, he's not.

Yeah he is, look at the depth chart.

[SOCALORADO.]

Yeah he is, look at the depth chart.

Yeah, Quinn would not have done better.

[claymore]

Yeah, Quinn would not have done better.

I hope we dont start replacing QB's. Orton didnt look good, but he wasnt embarrassing.

If we put Quin or Tebow in it will look like a Benny Hill episode.

[claymore]

DEN has officially become the Detriot Lions............back when they sucked...............forever.

Hope not. I have said before that it will take at least 10 years to recover from the day McD is fired.

We cant begin the healing until we get a good QB.

[vandammage13]

I hope we dont start replacing QB's. Orton didnt look good, but he wasnt embarrassing.

If we put Quin or Tebow in it will look like a Benny Hill episode.

He was pretty damn embarrassing. Even his completions had to be adjusted to.

His schtick is supposedly accuracy and protecting the ball and he did neither last night.

[SOCALORADO.]

Hope not. I have said before that it will take at least 10 years to recover from the day McD is fired.

We cant begin the healing until we get a good QB.

3 years.
SUCK4LUCK

[Slick]

I hope we dont start replacing QB's. Orton didnt look good, but he wasnt embarrassing.

If we put Quin or Tebow in it will look like a Benny Hill episode.

That phantom fumble is the definition of embarrassing.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Dreadnought]

Yeah he is, look at the depth chart.

No Clay, and you of all people should know better. Orton is the same kind of weinie you see from time to time who excels in a Peacetime Army, writes flawless reports, irons the perfect creases in his uniform, passes every inspection with flying colors, and never has deficiencies in all the superficial kind of crap. His OER/NCOER's are near perfect. He also subsequently craps his trousers when the actual shootin' war starts (or he faces an actual pass rush, as the case may be). He is George McClellan.

We have seen this work out repeatedly, so who beat out whom in practice couldn't be less relevant. The guy is a fraud. He cannot be fixed. Tebow is clearly already a better option, with the only question being if can he actually be the guy. Neither you nor I nor anyone else actually knows that, but it would be kinda cool to find out. It might even be fun to watch. Watching Orton repeatedly assume the fetal position when faced with 5 or more pass rushers, or when hit with the force and power of an Angel's shrug is not fun.

[claymore]

He was pretty damn embarrassing. Even his completions had to be adjusted to.

His schtick is supposedly accuracy and protecting the ball and he did neither last night.He wasnt embarrassing, but he wasnt good.


That phantom fumble is the definition of embarrassing.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forumsMeh, thats par for the course.


No Clay, and you of all people should know better. Orton is the same kind of weinie you see from time to time who excels in a Peacetime Army, writes flawless reports, irons the perfect creases in his uniform, passes every inspection with flying colors, and never has deficiencies in all the superficial kind of crap. His OER/NCOER's are near perfect. He also subsequently craps his trousers when the actual shootin' war starts (or he faces an actual pass rush, as the case may be). He is George McClellan.

We have seen this work out repeatedly, so who beat out whom in practice couldn't be less relevant. The guy is a fraud. He cannot be fixed. Tebow is clearly already a better option, with the only question being if can he actually be the guy. Neither you nor I nor anyone else actually knows that, but it would be kinda cool to find out. It might even be fun to watch. Watching Orton repeatedly assume the fetal position when faced with 5 or more pass rushers, or when hit with the force and power of an Angel's shrug is not fun.
Orton sucks, I cant defend him. We both expected this when Cutler was traded by Mcdaniels.

On the other hand, I dont think Tebow knows what the hell he is doing. I dont think they can put a real game plan together because they cant use the whole playbook with Tebow.

I think Tebow will look great on his first game, not so good on his 2nd game, bad on his 3rd game, terrible on his 4th, 5th and 6th game, and eventually replaced by Quin or Tebow again.

The answer to our woes at the QB position is not on our roster.

[JaxBroncoGirl]

Orton has the Broncos in shackles for not taking the Miami deal. When the locker room gets tired of loosing they will turn on him.

[claymore]

Orton has the Broncos in shackles for not taking the Miami deal. When the locker room gets tired of loosing they will turn on him.

Miami did themselves a favor by not trading for Orton.

Tebow isnt exactly loved in the locker room either though.

[Slick]

par for the course? more like a quadruple bogey on the 18th.

[claymore]

par for the course? more like a quadruple bogey on the 18th.

I never had high hopes for Orton, so Im not shocked, or disapointed. This is where I thought we would be.

[Slick]

I never had high hopes for Orton, so Im not shocked, or disapointed. This is where I thought we would be.

True, however we had a glimmer of hope until that play. That was devastating. Estela decided to watch with me last night. She asked me like 4 times, don't you guys have a better mariscal de campo....quarterback.


:bandit:

[chazoe60]

True, however we had a glimmer of hope until that play. That was devastating. Estela decided to watch with me last night. She asked me like 4 times, don't you guys have a better mariscal de campo....quarterback.


:bandit:

We have a "marsupial del crappo"


A kangaroo who shits in his own pouch at the first sign of trouble hoping the smell will drive the big meanies away.

[G_Money]

Orton sucks, I cant defend him. We both expected this when Cutler was traded by Mcdaniels.

On the other hand, I dont think Tebow knows what the hell he is doing. I dont think they can put a real game plan together because they cant use the whole playbook with Tebow.

I think Tebow will look great on his first game, not so good on his 2nd game, bad on his 3rd game, terrible on his 4th, 5th and 6th game, and eventually replaced by Quin or Tebow again.

The answer to our woes at the QB position is not on our roster.

Are we using the whole playbook now? :confused: I mean, we have other runs and stuff in that thing, right? Or maybe the playbook really is 528 ways to say, "everybody run around out there somewhere while I throw the ball to Lloyd."

I don't think Orton is the worst QB ever...but he's NOT the future of the Broncos. Is Tebow? I would sure like to get in double-digits worth of games to at least find out. If he's terrible by game 5 then at least you know something.

Right now we just have guesses. You guess he can't perform in a live game against pro defenses, and I guess that since none of our guys really can stay on-script in those situations that Tebow is our best chance at going off-script successfully.

We need to see Tebow this year. If he's a clown, then he's a clown. I have the sneaking suspicion that it would go a lot like a saner Vince Young: he just wins.

But I want him fitted for clown shoes or a starting job by the end of this year. No messing around.

Last night? Messing around. Rolling in the mud like hogs on parade. Ugly.

If we're gonna put together a season like that, then Tebow can get muddy and we can learn something.

We already know how Orton looks, and we're not taking him to the dance next year. Stop wasting our time mouthing off about competing to win. If we start off 1-4 or 0-5 then I hope Tebow takes snaps with the 1s for the bye week so he can get started on his 10-game tryout in Miami.

And sadly, that could legitimately happen. Bring on the Bengals - I wanna see if these Broncos are made of any sterner stuff than last year's.

~G

[PAINTERDAVE]

Orton sucks, I cant defend him. We both expected this when Cutler was traded by Mcdaniels.

On the other hand, I dont think Tebow knows what the hell he is doing. I dont think they can put a real game plan together because they cant use the whole playbook with Tebow.

I think Tebow will look great on his first game, not so good on his 2nd game, bad on his 3rd game, terrible on his 4th, 5th and 6th game, and eventually replaced by Quin or Tebow again.

The answer to our woes at the QB position is not on our roster.

That is what we are told... over and over.

The FACT is... we don't KNOW yet.

Tebow would not be the guy who would lead us to the playoffs in his sophmore year..
but he COULD be the guy who got in there..
got some experience..
and showed that he CAN improve and MIGHT be a good QB.

Everyone saying as a certainty that he CAN NOT...

well.. repsectfully NO ONE KNOWS THAT RIGHT NOW.

Using this rebuild year to find out makes sense.

IF Tebow could grow and have success..
then we would KNOW and could draft a big D-lineman with the first pick.

Otherwise.... they will just throw away
ANOTHER first round pick on some other rookie QB..
and we REALLY ARE the Lions.

[Thnikkaman]

Orton is just barely worse than this thread.

Pearl harbor sucks just a little bit less than Orton at QB.

[claymore]

Are we using the whole playbook now? :confused: I mean, we have other runs and stuff in that thing, right? Or maybe the playbook really is 528 ways to say, "everybody run around out there somewhere while I throw the ball to Lloyd."

I don't think Orton is the worst QB ever...but he's NOT the future of the Broncos. Is Tebow? I would sure like to get in double-digits worth of games to at least find out. If he's terrible by game 5 then at least you know something.

Right now we just have guesses. You guess he can't perform in a live game against pro defenses, and I guess that since none of our guys really can stay on-script in those situations that Tebow is our best chance at going off-script successfully.

We need to see Tebow this year. If he's a clown, then he's a clown. I have the sneaking suspicion that it would go a lot like a saner Vince Young: he just wins.

But I want him fitted for clown shoes or a starting job by the end of this year. No messing around.

Last night? Messing around. Rolling in the mud like hogs on parade. Ugly.

If we're gonna put together a season like that, then Tebow can get muddy and we can learn something.

We already know how Orton looks, and we're not taking him to the dance next year. Stop wasting our time mouthing off about competing to win. If we start off 1-4 or 0-5 then I hope Tebow takes snaps with the 1s for the bye week so he can get started on his 10-game tryout in Miami.

And sadly, that could legitimately happen. Bring on the Bengals - I wanna see if these Broncos are made of any sterner stuff than last year's.

~G
Other than Orton and Quin sucking (fact) and not being the future of the franchise all we have are opionions.

I think that Fox and company wants to win. I have a hard time believing that they would not let Tebow start if he was anywhere close to being as good as Orton :harf:.

I think their opinion of Tebow is so low, that him as the future isnt even a real possibility. And if he does mildly well, it will only become a distraction when we DO draft a QB in the upcoming draft.

All he has to do is perform mildly better than Orton, hell he can do a little worse and people will be ok with that. That will cause huge PR issues come April 28th or whenever Draft day is.

IMO Tebow is as much as part of this franchises future as Orton, and Quin. I think his ceiling is just as high, maybe a little lower, but he is young and shiny to the fans. He must be dumber than a box of rocks, because this organization has zero faith in the dude. He has all the athletic ability.

[NightTerror218]

Miami did themselves a favor by not trading for Orton.

Tebow isnt exactly loved in the locker room either though.

How do you know that? Been in the locker room much?

[NightTerror218]

Other than Orton and Quin sucking (fact) and not being the future of the franchise all we have are opionions.

I think that Fox and company wants to win. I have a hard time believing that they would not let Tebow start if he was anywhere close to being as good as Orton :harf:.

I think their opinion of Tebow is so low, that him as the future isnt even a real possibility. And if he does mildly well, it will only become a distraction when we DO draft a QB in the upcoming draft.

All he has to do is perform mildly better than Orton, hell he can do a little worse and people will be ok with that. That will cause huge PR issues come April 28th or whenever Draft day is.

IMO Tebow is as much as part of this franchises future as Orton, and Quin. I think his ceiling is just as high, maybe a little lower, but he is young and shiny to the fans. He must be dumber than a box of rocks, because this organization has zero faith in the dude. He has all the athletic ability.


Then why is Tebow not traded away then? I would think several teams would trade a 3rd for him.

[claymore]

That is what we are told... over and over.

The FACT is... we don't KNOW yet.

Tebow would not be the guy who would lead us to the playoffs in his sophmore year..
but he COULD be the guy who got in there..
got some experience..
and showed that he CAN improve and MIGHT be a good QB.

Everyone saying as a certainty that he CAN NOT...

well.. repsectfully NO ONE KNOWS THAT RIGHT NOW.

Using this rebuild year to find out makes sense.

IF Tebow could grow and have success..
then we would KNOW and could draft a big D-lineman with the first pick.

Otherwise.... they will just throw away
ANOTHER first round pick on some other rookie QB..
and we REALLY ARE the Lions.

The day McD traded Cutler we began this journey. The organization that wirtes the checks doesnt like Tebow as a starting QB. I feel the same way.

He isnt the future unless a miracle happens. I would be so happy to be wrong, but we are drafting a QB with our first pick next year.

[BroncoStud]

The day McD traded Cutler we began this journey. The organization that wirtes the checks doesnt like Tebow as a starting QB. I feel the same way.

He isnt the future unless a miracle happens. I would be so happy to be wrong, but we are drafting a QB with our first pick next year.

Well then we had better lose as much as possible because there is a BIG drop in talent between Luck and Barkley.

[claymore]

Then why is Tebow not traded away then? I would think several teams would trade a 3rd for him.

Because it would cause a huge fan fall out. He wont be traded until we have his replacement earmarked.

[TXBRONC]

If orton was mentally tough we'd have won

We've always known that Orton is successful when the supporting cast is carrying the team and not himself.

[G_Money]

If the season goes the way I expect and Tebow doesn't play once Orton takes us several games under .500, I'll believe you clay.

But they're basically gonna have to keep Tebow out of ALL the games if they don't want fan fallout - and they'll get fan fallout if Tebow doesn't play any games and then gets traded anyway.

It's a no-win scenario. If small sample-size (ie, Tebow having a good game or two out of 4) is the issue with fans thinking he can play, then give him a bigger sample size so that more of them understand he can't.

If he DOES succeed in the bigger sample size, then maybe he can actually succeed across multiple years and we don't need to draft a 1st round QB.

If he fails, we draft high. If he succeeds, we don't need that high draftpick for Luck anyway.

I guess if the Broncos were 100% sure that Tebow was not the man then I would expect them to play him a lot or play him not at all, funny as that sounds. Playing Orton some, and then later in the year inserting Tebow just enough to get hopes up but not enough for him to crash and burn seems stupid.

So if they don't play Tebow at all this year, then you were right. But if Tebow is the starting QB in 2 months...

I really won't understand what we're doing, other than more half-measures of trying not to commit fully to any style of rebuild.

~G

[BigDaddyBronco]

If the season goes the way I expect and Tebow doesn't play once Orton takes us several games under .500, I'll believe you clay.

But they're basically gonna have to keep Tebow out of ALL the games if they don't want fan fallout - and they'll get fan fallout if Tebow doesn't play any games and then gets traded anyway.

It's a no-win scenario. If small sample-size (ie, Tebow having a good game or two out of 4) is the issue with fans thinking he can play, then give him a bigger sample size so that more of them understand he can't.

If he DOES succeed in the bigger sample size, then maybe he can actually succeed across multiple years and we don't need to draft a 1st round QB.

If he fails, we draft high. If he succeeds, we don't need that high draftpick for Luck anyway.

I guess if the Broncos were 100% sure that Tebow was not the man then I would expect them to play him a lot or play him not at all, funny as that sounds. Playing Orton some, and then later in the year inserting Tebow just enough to get hopes up but not enough for him to crash and burn seems stupid.

So if they don't play Tebow at all this year, then you were right. But if Tebow is the starting QB in 2 months...

I really won't understand what we're doing, other than more half-measures of trying not to commit fully to any style of rebuild.

~G

If Orton bounces back and they win a couple games in the next 5 or so games, I think Orton plays until week 10 or so. If Quinn then comes in, then EFX has no intention of seeing what Tebow can do and it means a new QB in the draft with Tebow possibly being shipped out.

If Orton gets benched before that, then they really want to see what Tebow can do and only played Orton as a favor to the vets, to gie them hope that the team might be competitive and that they were not in full rebuilding mode.

If they mess around and don't give Tebow a shot if things continue on this path, then I'm really going to wonder if EFX is right for the Broncos (and truthfully more on E and X than on Fox, he will do as he is told).

[Dreadnought]

If Orton bounces back and they win a couple games in the next 5 or so games, I think Orton plays until week 10 or so. If Quinn then comes in, then EFX has no intention of seeing what Tebow can do and it means a new QB in the draft with Tebow possibly being shipped out.

If Orton gets benched before that, then they really want to see what Tebow can do and only played Orton as a favor to the vets, to gie them hope that the team might be competitive and that they were not in full rebuilding mode.

If they mess around and don't give Tebow a shot if things continue on this path, then I'm really going to wonder if EFX is right for the Broncos (and truthfully more on E and X than on Fox, he will do as he is told).

If that is what happens then then clearly EFX is McD MK.II and Lord help us all.

[SOCALORADO.]

If that is what happens then then clearly EFX is McD MK.II and Lord help us all.

And Luck help us all!

http://ataylorblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/andrew-luck.jpg

[vandammage13]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wGAgzY9wR44/TgMipcOqbhI/AAAAAAAAADs/rphZ1vtjwY0/s1600/Tim-Tebow-Broncos.jpg

[claymore]

If Orton bounces back and they win a couple games in the next 5 or so games, I think Orton plays until week 10 or so. If Quinn then comes in, then EFX has no intention of seeing what Tebow can do and it means a new QB in the draft with Tebow possibly being shipped out.

If Orton gets benched before that, then they really want to see what Tebow can do and only played Orton as a favor to the vets, to gie them hope that the team might be competitive and that they were not in full rebuilding mode.

If they mess around and don't give Tebow a shot if things continue on this path, then I'm really going to wonder if EFX is right for the Broncos (and truthfully more on E and X than on Fox, he will do as he is told).

What if Quin is the one that replaces Orton if things go south?

[Agent of Orange]

Yeah he is, look at the depth chart.

That doesnt mean anything. Keep telling us how awesome Orton is in practice. Most people know better by now. Apparently you're a little slow.

[Nomad]

What if Quin is the one that replaces Orton if things go south?

At least we're trying something different than what's not working! And if a 5 yr player can't cut it then Tebow will be the last resort before the season ends.

[jhildebrand]

What if Quin is the one that replaces Orton if things go south?

Im ok with that. But the reality is he will be on an even shorter leash.

At some point the question of fans in the seats will be an issue just like last season and at that point Bowlen will again exert the influence to get TT in.

[Ravage!!!]

What if Quin is the one that replaces Orton if things go south?

Right now, its been said over and over again on ESPN that they know that if Orton were to go out, today, that Quinn is the back-up.

[Locnar]

The Broncos need this guy in the locker room..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWH0BHS0m04

[chazoe60]

How many seasons do we have to hear or read this line "it's not ALL Orton's fault". It's some of his fault and the fact we have had to watch his pathetic ass for 3 seasons now pisses me off.

I don't know how many times today I've heard "he brought us to within a FG and if the defense could have made a stop". Are we forgetting the fact that he just flat out dropled the ball?

Quit excusing one shitty (and it's undeniable folks, Orton is shitty) aspect of the team just because there are other shitty aspects as well.

I'm so sick of watching a loser lead this team and then essentially being told "don't worry about the leader being a loser because they're all losers, he fits in perfect".

[PAINTERDAVE]

It's a no-win scenario. If small sample-size (ie, Tebow having a good game or two out of 4) is the issue with fans thinking he can play, then give him a bigger sample size so that more of them understand he can't.

If he DOES succeed in the bigger sample size, then maybe he can actually succeed across multiple years and we don't need to draft a 1st round QB.

If he fails, we draft high. If he succeeds, we don't need that high draftpick for Luck anyway.


~G

This makes sense...

Deal is....

it really does not matter WHO is at QB...
if we suck at the middle of both lines.

The draft needs to be used to upgrade the lines.. the trenches..

If Tebow blows after geting a decent shot...
and the team is upgraded in the 2012 draft...
THEN.. when we draft a young stud in 2013...
we will actually have a team.

If this team uses the #1 pick on a QB in 2012..
I see that as a waste.
If Tim gets cut without a shot... and goes on to greatness elsewhere..
I see that as a waste.

Every game Orton plays in...
is an unmitigated waste.

[MOtorboat]

That doesnt mean anything. Keep telling us how awesome Orton is in practice. Most people know better by now. Apparently you're a little slow.

The only slow one here is you. Read clay's previous posts about how the entire quarterbacking corp sucks, and get back to us,

He hasn't ever called Orton "awesome."

Fail post is fail.

[Ottokar Prohaska]

Orton sucked last night, hard. He did not settle in the pocket and threw some truly awful balls.
The running game was hapless and left the passing game out to dry.

I have watched this dynamic with Bills. They have been in fruitless search for a qb for the last decade. They picked up Bledsoe who had a great year when they could protect him, then threw him under the bus for JP Losman, Followed by Trent Edwards and Now Fitzpatrick. There may be one or two in there that I forgot. Dreary underwhelming performances - mostly I laughed.

Offensive scheme seems broken and I suspect teams don't really fear Orton much, other than, blitz him and he cannot cope. I watched Rodgers pick apart my Saints's blitzing schemes like it was unopposed practice and Saints had a pretty good pass defense last year. Orton cannot do that. I think he is one of those qbs that can cope with a superior running attack, 8 in the box for run stop and hit them with a play action pass. Beyond that, phah.

Unless the running game gets goins, I suspect Quinn would face the same fate. Tebow can at least make consistent plays with his feet, sort of Vick style. Vick was back to his Atlanta form, weak passing, but making enough plays with his running to keep drives alive.

The good news was that Campbell did not put up a bunch of yards.

[DenBronx]

And Luck help us all!

http://ataylorblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/andrew-luck.jpg

That's a real QB there. NFL ready right now!!! Whoever gets him is set for 15+ years and destined for a superbowl. Very worthy of breaking the piggy bank....but what do I know....I'm just a fan.

[DenBronx]

Fox "wants a gamer" ????

Then why in hell is Orton our QB?


FAIL!!!!

[DenBronx]

Right now, its been said over and over again on ESPN that they know that if Orton were to go out, today, that Quinn is the back-up.

And thats just retarded. Quinn is worse than Orton. ESPN has lost its marbles lately.

[Bullgator]

Why is everyone apeshit over Luck? How the hell do we know hes going to be an all time great?!

He hasnt played a down in the NFL yet. Hold your horses... no pun intended. Are you telling me what you do in college counts all the sudden?

Luck could be great he could be nothing... one thing is for SURE... hes not going to be a bronco. get that out of your heads.... unless of course KO starts all 16 games, then hes a shoe in.

[TXBRONC]

If the season goes the way I expect and Tebow doesn't play once Orton takes us several games under .500, I'll believe you clay.

But they're basically gonna have to keep Tebow out of ALL the games if they don't want fan fallout - and they'll get fan fallout if Tebow doesn't play any games and then gets traded anyway.

It's a no-win scenario. If small sample-size (ie, Tebow having a good game or two out of 4) is the issue with fans thinking he can play, then give him a bigger sample size so that more of them understand he can't.

If he DOES succeed in the bigger sample size, then maybe he can actually succeed across multiple years and we don't need to draft a 1st round QB.

If he fails, we draft high. If he succeeds, we don't need that high draftpick for Luck anyway.

I guess if the Broncos were 100% sure that Tebow was not the man then I would expect them to play him a lot or play him not at all, funny as that sounds. Playing Orton some, and then later in the year inserting Tebow just enough to get hopes up but not enough for him to crash and burn seems stupid.

So if they don't play Tebow at all this year, then you were right. But if Tebow is the starting QB in 2 months...

I really won't understand what we're doing, other than more half-measures of trying not to commit fully to any style of rebuild.

~G


If Orton bounces back and they win a couple games in the next 5 or so games, I think Orton plays until week 10 or so. If Quinn then comes in, then EFX has no intention of seeing what Tebow can do and it means a new QB in the draft with Tebow possibly being shipped out.

If Orton gets benched before that, then they really want to see what Tebow can do and only played Orton as a favor to the vets, to gie them hope that the team might be competitive and that they were not in full rebuilding mode.

If they mess around and don't give Tebow a shot if things continue on this path, then I'm really going to wonder if EFX is right for the Broncos (and truthfully more on E and X than on Fox, he will do as he is told).


If that is what happens then then clearly EFX is McD MK.II and Lord help us all.

If things continue to go the way they did Monday and Tebow doesn't start that doesn't necessarily mean that they have on interest in seeing if Tebow can be the franchise quarterback. I think Clay's argument has more validity if Denver's season goes down the crapper and then Orton is replaced with Quinn rather than Tebow. I think Elway and Fox like Tebow but at the same time words and actions have to match up and right now that has happened very much.

If Tebow doesn't get a shot and EFX drafts a quarterback early next year I trust that their decision will be a much more rational than decisions that were made by McDaniels. One of the beat writers said Elway has a three year plan to get this team back on top if he comes to the conclusion that there isn't anyway he can do that with Tebow I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

God have mercy on my soul for taking on three BF titans at one time. :pray:

[Northman]

Why is everyone apeshit over Luck? How the hell do we know hes going to be an all time great?!

He hasnt played a down in the NFL yet. Hold your horses... no pun intended. Are you telling me what you do in college counts all the sudden?

Luck could be great he could be nothing... one thing is for SURE... hes not going to be a bronco. get that out of your heads.... unless of course KO starts all 16 games, then hes a shoe in.

Luck= Ryan Leaf

[BigDaddyBronco]

If things continue to go the way they did Monday and Tebow doesn't start that doesn't necessarily mean that they have on interest in seeing if Tebow can be the franchise quarterback. I think Clay's argument has more validity if Denver's season goes down the crapper and then Orton is replaced with Quinn rather than Tebow. I think Elway and Fox like Tebow but at the same time words and actions have to match up and right now that has happened very much.

If Tebow doesn't get a shot and EFX drafts a quarterback early next year I trust that their decision will be a much more rational than decisions that were made by McDaniels. One of the beat writers said Elway has a three year plan to get this team back on top if he comes to the conclusion that there isn't anyway he can do that with Tebow I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

God have mercy on my soul for taking on three BF titans at one time. :pray:

My only deal is that Elway might be looking at Tebow and comparing his style to the way Tebow plays and making a judgement call that Tebow will not succeed. If he does this he is being shortsided. Last year we saw a competitive Tebow in three games . He had a reduced playbook, he made mistakes, he ran too much, but he won one game and was in one of the other games. To me, that means he deserves a real shot. You are also paying him a pretty good chunk of money, and could really use the #1 next year on other issues. It is really bad strategically to not give him a shot if Orton sucks most of the year.

It reminds me of Shanny and Plummer. Plummer reportedly could only make reads on one side of the field, so they simplified things for him and added a whole bunch of role out plays. That guy helped get us to an AFC Championship game. There is no reason that they can't do the same thing with Tebow and see if he develops.

[claymore]

And thats just retarded. Quinn is worse than Orton. ESPN has lost its marbles lately.

Tebow is worse than Quin though.

[vandammage13]

Tebow is worse than Quin though.

No, he's not...

[Dirk]

Tebow is worse than Quin though.

There is no fair way to confirm your opinion. There is a lot more film on Quinn than there is for Tebow at the NFL level.

Remember....Quinn kept losing out to Derek Anderson. :coffee:

[claymore]

My only deal is that Elway might be looking at Tebow and comparing his style to the way Tebow plays and making a judgement call that Tebow will not succeed. If he does this he is being shortsided. Last year we saw a competitive Tebow in three games . He had a reduced playbook, he made mistakes, he ran too much, but he won one game and was in one of the other games. To me, that means he deserves a real shot. You are also paying him a pretty good chunk of money, and could really use the #1 next year on other issues. It is really bad strategically to not give him a shot if Orton sucks most of the year.

It reminds me of Shanny and Plummer. Plummer reportedly could only make reads on one side of the field, so they simplified things for him and added a whole bunch of role out plays. That guy helped get us to an AFC Championship game. There is no reason that they can't do the same thing with Tebow and see if he develops.If we had Shanahan here I would be all for Tebow starting. I think he could maximize Tebow's talents.

IMO, I think we need a new Offense, OC, and QB. I think a great offensive mind could get Tebow to produce, and get us back to being a mediocre team. I just dont think he will ever get us to greatness...

[claymore]

No, he's not...


There is no fair way to confirm your opinion. There is a lot more film on Quinn than there is for Tebow at the NFL level.

Remember....Quinn kept losing out to Derek Anderson. :coffee:

So the depth chart is a farse?

[vandammage13]

There is no fair way to confirm your opinion. There is a lot more film on Quinn than there is for Tebow at the NFL level.

Remember....Quinn kept losing out to Derek Anderson. :coffee:

And the film that we do have on the two actually points to the opposite being true.

[vandammage13]

So the depth chart is a farse?

You mean the co #2? Not sure how that makes Quinn better...

[claymore]

You mean the co #2? Not sure how that makes Quinn better...

That is to make the Teboites feel better. Its been widely reported that if Orton goes down Quin is the one going in.

If Tebow was # 2, they would list him as such.

[vandammage13]

That is to make the Teboites feel better. Its been widely reported that if Orton goes down Quin is the one going in.

If Tebow was # 2, they would list him as such.

It has also been widely reported that "Orton gives us the best chance to win"...which has not been proven true.

[claymore]

It has also been widely reported that "Orton gives us the best chance to win"...which has not been proven true.

Orton is the best of a bad situation. Tebow is how to make a bad situation worse.

[Buff]

Orton is the best of a bad situation. Tebow is how to make a bad situation worse.

This is what I thought until I saw the ball slip out of Orton's hand on the crucial 2nd half drive on Monday night.

Now, I'm firmly in the camp that says if we're going to suck, we may as well suck with the guy who may potentially give us a chance to win in the future.

[SOCALORADO.]

If things continue to go the way they did Monday and Tebow doesn't start that doesn't necessarily mean that they have on interest in seeing if Tebow can be the franchise quarterback. I think Clay's argument has more validity if Denver's season goes down the crapper and then Orton is replaced with Quinn rather than Tebow. I think Elway and Fox like Tebow but at the same time words and actions have to match up and right now that has happened very much.

If Tebow doesn't get a shot and EFX drafts a quarterback early next year I trust that their decision will be a much more rational than decisions that were made by McDaniels. One of the beat writers said Elway has a three year plan to get this team back on top if he comes to the conclusion that there isn't anyway he can do that with Tebow I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

God have mercy on my soul for taking on three BF titans at one time. :pray:

And when does Elway go into something without a plan?
When he became the "car dealership king" of colorado?
When he took over the Colorado Crush and then won the arena bowl?
When he became VP of the Denver Broncos?
Elway has a plan alright, and i have no doubt that the plan involves a centerpiece to the orginization. A true SB calibur, franchise QB.
For crying out loud, ELWAYS IS THE ORIGINAL "CENTERPIECE".
From everything you see in DEN, has there ever been any indication whatsoever from EFX or the FO that TT is the future?
Really? REALLY!?!?
Seriously. Elway isnt going into becoming an executive in the NFL without a plan to be successful and to do that he knows he needs a slam dunk, centerpiece to the organization. Period. He knows this more than any other person on the planet, since he was the original "franchise QB".
I am not worried in the least.
Elways plan is simple. Do whatever it takes to get the flat out, slam dunk best QB prospect in 2 decades and bring him to Denver.
There will no QB controversy in the halls at Dove Valley.
All 3 Qbs will be gone next year, Luck will be a bronco and a veteran will be brought in to mentor and help out here and there.
Now, grow some balls and trust the master, em kay.

[claymore]

This is what I thought until I saw the ball slip out of Orton's hand on the crucial 2nd half drive on Monday night.

Now, I'm firmly in the camp that says if we're going to suck, we may as well suck with the guy who may potentially give us a chance to win in the future.

That guy isnt on our roster. If he was, Orton would be watching games from his couch.

Tebow was the golden boy favorite to earn the #1 spot. Something is wrong with the kid if a run first coach wont let him sniff #1, or the true #2.

[CoachChaz]

And when does Elway go into something without a plan?
When he became the "car dealership king" of colorado?
When he took over the Colorado Crush and then won the arena bowl?
When he became VP of the Denver Broncos?
Elway has a plan alright, and i have no doubt that the plan involves a centerpiece to the orginization. A true SB calibur, franchise QB.
For crying out loud, ELWAYS IS THE ORIGINAL "CENTERPIECE".
From everything you see in DEN, has there ever been any indication whatsoever from EFX or the FO that TT is the future?
Really? REALLY!?!?
Seriously. Elway isnt going into becoming an executive in the NFL without a plan to be successful and to do that he knows he needs a slam dunk, centerpiece to the organization. Period. He knows this more than any other person on the planet, since he was the original "franchise QB".
I am not worried in the least.
Elways plan is simple. Do whatever it takes to get the flat out, slam dunk best QB prospect in 2 decades and bring him to Denver.
There will no QB controversy in the halls at Dove Valley.
All 3 Qbs will be gone next year, Luck will be a bronco and a veteran will be brought in to mentor and help out here and there.
Now, grow some balls and trust the master, em kay.

I guess I just have a hard time believing that this staff will throw Luck to the wolves from day one with only a vet to mentor him...but wont throw Tebow out there in our current situation, if for no other reasons, to see what we have in him or to prove he isnt the answer.

Doesnt make any sense at all.

[Dreadnought]

That guy isnt on our roster. If he was, Orton would be watching games from his couch.

Tebow was the golden boy favorite to earn the #1 spot. Something is wrong with the kid if a run first coach wont let him sniff #1, or the true #2.

It was always a rigged game, Clay. It was the same kind of competition as the 1919 World Series.

[Thnikkaman]

Kirk Ferentz for HC.

[Thnikkaman]

No, he's not...

I know you are but what am I.

[claymore]

I guess I just have a hard time believing that this staff will throw Luck to the wolves from day one with only a vet to mentor him...but wont throw Tebow out there in our current situation, if for no other reasons, to see what we have in him or to prove he isnt the answer.

Doesnt make any sense at all.

My gut feeling is that Tebow is lost in meetings, and reviewing tape. I think he would be awesome in unscripted environments, but he cant follow the script. JMO. Could be multiple things.

[TXBRONC]

My only deal is that Elway might be looking at Tebow and comparing his style to the way Tebow plays and making a judgement call that Tebow will not succeed. If he does this he is being shortsided. Last year we saw a competitive Tebow in three games . He had a reduced playbook, he made mistakes, he ran too much, but he won one game and was in one of the other games. To me, that means he deserves a real shot. You are also paying him a pretty good chunk of money, and could really use the #1 next year on other issues. It is really bad strategically to not give him a shot if Orton sucks most of the year.

It reminds me of Shanny and Plummer. Plummer reportedly could only make reads on one side of the field, so they simplified things for him and added a whole bunch of role out plays. That guy helped get us to an AFC Championship game. There is no reason that they can't do the same thing with Tebow and see if he develops.


I agree if we're in dire straights i.e. we're not in playoff contention then I believe Fox should go ahead and give Tebow a chance to sink or swim. Personally I think it will become clear if this team can compete for a playoff spot by the bye week (week 6 of the season).

I've got a weird scenario for ya. Lets assume Fox makes the switch to Tebow because we're out of the hunt. So Tebow comes in with lets say six games to go and wins two games but the team remains competitive. At the same Tebow looks like he did against San Diego last year then what? I'm just curious as to what you think.

[claymore]

It was always a rigged game, Clay. It was the same kind of competition as the 1919 World Series.

I have a hard time believing any coach anywhere would want Kyle Orton or Brady Quin to be the starter if a mega star, fan favorite, better QB was on their roster.

[SOCALORADO.]

I guess I just have a hard time believing that this staff will throw Luck to the wolves from day one with only a vet to mentor him...but wont throw Tebow out there in our current situation, if for no other reasons, to see what we have in him or to prove he isnt the answer.

Doesnt make any sense at all.

It makes perfect sense! TT cant play QB. Period. If he could, he would be.
No, hes Co-No 2. If that doesnt tell you what EFX thinks about TT, then your just plain lost.
Why isnt he just the No2 QB? If hes the No 2 then he should just be No 2. Period. Theres no reason for another title to be created in Dove Valley.
Its ludicrious, and your grasping at straws.
No, the Co-No 2 exists because TT was beat out by Quinn, and to lessen the already out of control drama with the media, the decision was made to have them both be No2's so no one could flat out accuse TT of sucking. Even though the media did anyways.
Clearly EFX already know what they have in TT, and they dont care for it. You just cant handle this simple fact.
Thats why he isnt starting, and thats why he isnt the no.2

[vandammage13]

Orton is the best of a bad situation. Tebow is how to make a bad situation worse.

Orton is the best guy in 7 on 7's...Fools gold.

As bad as the rest of our team is, Tebow's ability to improvise is just what this team needs to be at least more competitive.

I'm not saying he would lead us to a playoff berth, our team isn't good enough to sniff the playoffs no matter who our starting QB is.

But I guarantee Tebow would win more than 5 out of 24 games. The guy is just going to try harder and not simply concede a sack anytime an opposing defensive lineman breaks through.

One play can make the difference in a game, and Tebow can bring that play...Orton has proven over the last 2+ years that he cannot.

With every snap he would gain more experience and either improve or not improve, but at least we would be able to move on from this dark chapter of Bronco History even if he sucks...

There is no way he could do worse. We are already losing with Orton, so putting Tebow back there would at worst yield the same results.

The new regime is just dillusional if they think this is anything other than a rebuilding year and they haven't had as much time to be let down by Orton as the fans have.

[Dirk]

I have a hard time believing any coach anywhere would want Kyle Orton or Brady Quin to be the starter if a mega star, fan favorite, better QB was on their roster.

I hear what you are saying.

It's been mentioned on numerous occasions that John Fox only wants to start a vet at QB and isn't a coach that wants to "take a chance" with someone without that "vet" moniker.

[Ravage!!!]

I hear what you are saying.

It's been mentioned on numerous occasions that John Fox only wants to start a vet at QB and isn't a coach that wants to "take a chance" with someone without that "vet" moniker.

But not mentioned by anyone with any real knowledge. Just those that are making comments because it fits what they see.

[claymore]

I hear what you are saying.

It's been mentioned on numerous occasions that John Fox only wants to start a vet at QB and isn't a coach that wants to "take a chance" with someone without that "vet" moniker.

I find that ridiculous. Techinically Tebow is a Vet, its his second year.

Im sure He (Fox) likes continuity as well. He cant like the idea of losing his starting QB next year.

If Tebow was anygood whatsoever, Fox would have started him. Its common sense.

I think Tebow has so underwhelmed this regime that he is as good as done. They dont have the time or patience to work on McDaniels project. We have to move forward.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I agree if we're in dire straights i.e. we're not in playoff contention then I believe Fox should go ahead and give Tebow a chance to sink or swim. Personally I think it will become clear if this team can compete for a playoff spot by the bye week (week 6 of the season).

I've got a weird scenario for ya. Lets assume Fox makes the switch to Tebow because we're out of the hunt. So Tebow comes in with lets say six games to go and wins two games but the team remains competitive. At the same Tebow looks like he did against San Diego last year then what? I'm just curious as to what you think.

I think it's just a crappy situation because of the lockout. It kind of derailed his development. If Tebow comes in and competes and puts the team in the position to win games I think you continue to play him. If he throws a bunch of wounded ducks and is only competitive due to his legs, then I think you need to look for a replacement.

Let's say he looks ok, better than Orton all around (not a experienced or as crisp a passer, but better field presence and doesn't crumble all the time), but just doesn't answer the question about his future. What does EFX decide to do? I would draft a QB with my 2nd rounder and continue to develop both of them. Then you make a decision a couple years from now. I would use the 1st on a DT or OLine. :D

[BigDaddyBronco]

I find that ridiculous. Techinically Tebow is a Vet, its his second year.

Im sure He (Fox) likes continuity as well. He cant like the idea of losing his starting QB next year.

If Tebow was anygood whatsoever, Fox would have started him. Its common sense.

I think Tebow has so underwhelmed this regime that he is as good as done. They dont have the time or patience to work on McDaniels project. We have to move forward.

If Tebow blows ass, then we will not see him on the field when we are 2-6. At that point we have to take a QB with our 1st next year.

[vandammage13]

And when does Elway go into something without a plan?
When he became the "car dealership king" of colorado?
When he took over the Colorado Crush and then won the arena bowl?
When he became VP of the Denver Broncos?
Elway has a plan alright, and i have no doubt that the plan involves a centerpiece to the orginization. A true SB calibur, franchise QB.

^^I do think this has a lot to do with it...

I think that Elway is just not sold that Tebow can lead us to the promised land.

I'm convinced that Elway is planning on getting his own QB in the 2012 draft.

He doesn't want Tebow to sniff the field because if he shows promise then it will be hard to convince the fans that drafting another QB is the right move.

It's not that they don't believe they can't win some games with Tebow. I'll bet that they know they will win more games with him than with Orton, but the following and support that Tebow has will increase 10 fold because of Tebow's magnetic personality.

This does not fit into their plans because Tebow is not the QB they want. Don't let him sniff the field so it will make the transition to another QB much more smooth.

Leak information or do whatever to temper the enthusiasm and hope that Orton can do enough to silence the calls for Tebow.

Unfortunately for them, Orton's bad play may force a change...Enter Brady Quinn...

[SOCALORADO.]

I find that ridiculous. Techinically Tebow is a Vet, its his second year.

Im sure He (Fox) likes continuity as well. He cant like the idea of losing his starting QB next year.

If Tebow was anygood whatsoever, Fox would have started him. Its common sense.

I think Tebow has so underwhelmed this regime that he is as good as done. They dont have the time or patience to work on McDaniels project. We have to move forward.

If they did think they had their QB of the future they would simply play him.
What? Elway can let Orton sit cause of Money or cause he looks good in practice!?!?
Were talking about John Motherf###!Ngf Elway here!!!!
You folks dont think He knows DAMN WELL what he has in Kyle Orton, and what he has in Quinn and what he has in TT!?!?!
He knows exactly what hes got, and if he had any kind of impression that TT was the future of this franchise he would be playing. Ortons money wouldnt matter, and his butt would be on the bench quiet for the season, happy to be getting paid. Period.
But instead, thats not whats happening.
Damage control and a plan for the future is whats happening.
And all the floridians complaining in the world isnt gonna change anything.

[Nomad]

I guess I just have a hard time believing that this staff will throw Luck to the wolves from day one with only a vet to mentor him...but wont throw Tebow out there in our current situation, if for no other reasons, to see what we have in him or to prove he isnt the answer.

Doesnt make any sense at all.

Yeah, chaz! I'm trying to wrap my mind around the 'suck for Luck' crowds thought process. They want Luck but give a shit how the team does...perhaps we should call them fence riders or hypocrites. Secondly, why do they give a shit who starts at QB because according to the 'suck for Luck' crowd, they want the BRONCOS to suck and lose to get a certain QB, so if all the QBs suck on the BRONCOS, what does it matter who starts according to them we'll lose. They're all ****** up in the head, imo!

I believe they are afraid Tebow may prove them wrong.....it's the only other reason I can see because they campaign so hard to keep Tebow off the field and see what he has. It's a win-win for everybody. We know what Quinn offers, though I'd give him his shot as well. Orton is the same old song and dance.

[SOCALORADO.]

^^I do think this has a lot to do with it...

I think that Elway is just not sold that Tebow can lead us to the promised land.

I'm convinced that Elway is planning on getting his own QB in the 2012 draft.

He doesn't want Tebow to sniff the field because if he shows promise then it will be hard to convince the fans that drafting another QB is the right move.

It's not that they don't believe they can't win some games with Tebow. I'll bet that they know they will win more games with him than with Orton, but the following and support that Tebow has will increase 10 fold because of Tebow's magnetic personality.

This does not fit into their plans because Tebow is not the QB they want. Don't let him sniff the field so it will make the transition to another QB much more smooth.

Leak information or do whatever to temper the enthusiasm and hope that Orton can do enough to silence the calls for Tebow.

Unfortunately for them, Orton's bad play may force a change...Enter Brady Quinn...

And you have come to this conclusion from everything you have seen since EFX has taken over? Right?
Its obvious. TT is NOT in their plans. So the next logical step is to try to figure out John Elways plan. That all i am saying.

[vandammage13]

That is to make the Teboites feel better. Its been widely reported that if Orton goes down Quin is the one going in.

If Tebow was # 2, they would list him as such.

He is listed at #2...quit spewing misinformation to support your argument.

> http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart.html

[TXBRONC]

I think it's just a crappy situation because of the lockout. It kind of derailed his development. If Tebow comes in and competes and puts the team in the position to win games I think you continue to play him. If he throws a bunch of wounded ducks and is only competitive due to his legs, then I think you need to look for a replacement.

Let's say he looks ok, better than Orton all around (not a experienced or as crisp a passer, but better field presence and doesn't crumble all the time), but just doesn't answer the question about his future. What does EFX decide to do? I would draft a QB with my 2nd rounder and continue to develop both of them. Then you make a decision a couple years from now. I would use the 1st on a DT or OLine. :D


I would want Tebow to play out the string regardless whether or not competitive or not. I have little to no doubt that if Tebow is the starting quarterback we would remain competitive because the word quit is in his vocabulary. My guess is that his mobility would be a big part us remaining competitive.

[BigDaddyBronco]

^^I do think this has a lot to do with it...

I think that Elway is just not sold that Tebow can lead us to the promised land.

I'm convinced that Elway is planning on getting his own QB in the 2012 draft.

He doesn't want Tebow to sniff the field because if he shows promise then it will be hard to convince the fans that drafting another QB is the right move.

It's not that they don't believe they can't win some games with Tebow. I'll bet that they know they will win more games with him than with Orton, but the following and support that Tebow has will increase 10 fold because of Tebow's magnetic personality.

This does not fit into their plans because Tebow is not the QB they want. Don't let him sniff the field so it will make the transition to another QB much more smooth.

Leak information or do whatever to temper the enthusiasm and hope that Orton can do enough to silence the calls for Tebow.

Unfortunately for them, Orton's bad play may force a change...Enter Brady Quinn...

Let's say Orton gets us to the bye at 1-5, Tebow replaces him at the bye and we finish up at 5-11, so Tebow goes 4-6. Elway goes and drafts a QB with the 1st rounder and trades Tebow. If he gets good return out of the trade, I don't think the majority of Bronco fans would be mad. If he drafts a mediocre QB and Tebow goes on to be a star, then he should be fired. If he lives in fear that he will make a mistake and it will piss off the fans, then he shouldn't have the job he has.

[Traveler]

I'm still stuck on a comment made by Fox this offseason. Paraphrasing:

"I want a gamer, not just someone who is great in practice."

Coach Fox, I agree with you wholeheartedly!

And it's quite obvious after the last two seasons and again Monday Orton is not a gamer.

[vandammage13]

And you have come to this conclusion from everything you have seen since EFX has taken over? Right?
Its obvious. TT is NOT in their plans. So the next logical step is to try to figure out John Elways plan. That all i am saying.

I agree with you...

I just don't think its the right move.

[vandammage13]

I'm still stuck on a comment made by Fox this offseason. Paraphrasing:

"I want a gamer, not just someone who is great in practice."

Coach Fox, I agree with you wholeheartedly!

And it's quite obvious after the last two seasons and again Monday Orton is not a gamer.

Coachspeak...

The QB decision is coming from higher.

[BroncoStud]

Coachspeak...

The QB decision is coming from higher.

We don't know that.

[TXBRONC]

Coachspeak...

The QB decision is coming from higher.

What do you base that on? The mere fact Orton is starting is no indication that Elway is making that decision.

All we know right is that Fox has the authority to set the roster. If Elway is doing what said then he's trying to micromanage the situation and that just does seem to square with what we know.

[MOtorboat]

I believe that John Fox is the type of coach who plays the best player at every position on the field. Orton is the best quarterback.

There are no conspiracies or money questions or ego problems. The best players are playing.

[vandammage13]

What do you base that on? The mere fact Orton is starting is no indication that Elway is making that decision.

All we know right is that Fox has the authority to set the roster. If Elway is doing what said then he's trying to micromanage the situation and that just does seem to square with what we know.

Just an opinion...I'm basing it on the fact that he said he wanted a "gamer", yet the "gamer" is sitting on the bench, while the 7 on 7 probowler is starting.

[SOCALORADO.]

What do you base that on? The mere fact Orton is starting is no indication that Elway is making that decision.

All we know right is that Fox has the authority to set the roster. If Elway is doing what said then he's trying to micromanage the situation and that just does seem to square with what we know.

I would tend to agree with you on any other position, and that Fox simply plays the best players at each position, however, Elway out on the field going over endless plays with Tebow PERSONALLY, working with him for hours on end, tells me that Elway has input into the QB position.
Plus Elway might know a thing or 2 about playing QB.
Just sayin..

[NightTerror218]

I would tend to agree with you on any other position, and that Fox simply plays the best players at each position, however, Elway out on the field going over endless plays with Tebow PERSONALLY, working with him for hours on end, tells me that Elway has input into the QB position.
Plus Elway might know a thing or 2 about playing QB.
Just sayin..

Why is he working Tebow if he has written him off, like you keep saying the FO/HC has? Why waste his time?

[TXBRONC]

Just an opinion...I'm basing it on the fact that he said he wanted a "gamer", yet the "gamer" is sitting on the bench, while the 7 on 7 probowler is starting.

I agree with you that Tebow is a gamer but apparently he thinks Orton is one as well.

[Agent of Orange]

I agree with you that Tebow is a gamer but apparently he thinks Orton is one as well.

The front office gives ground to Fox because they just fired their previous coach and want to have a reputation as a good place to coach. Fox is a "players coach" and wants to remain that way. This opens the door for guys like Lloyd and other vets to lobby for Orton and to have a loud voice. You have players, veterans, who have preference based on self interest, pure seniority bias, or whatever. And so you have these factions in the locker room that are pro Orton

[claymore]

The front office gives ground to Fox because they just fired their previous coach and want to have a reputation as a good place to coach. Fox is a "players coach" and wants to remain that way. This opens the door for guys like Lloyd and other vets to lobby for Orton and to have a loud voice. You have players, veterans, who have preference based on self interest, pure seniority bias, or whatever. And so you have these factions in the locker room that are pro Orton

Or, Orton is better than Tebow. And Fox is starting the best of a bad situation.

[Agent of Orange]

Or, Orton is better than Tebow. And Fox is starting the best of a bad situation.

Please, I'm more worried about games and not these legendary tales about what happened at practice.

[Jsteve01]

wow agent way to take it to the toilet. You always do that when guys disagree with you? Actually yeah you do. I saw you do it pretty quickly in your Tebow conspiracy thread. Sheesh man get over yourself. People around here have differing opinions. It's the nature of a football forum.

[claymore]

Please, I'm more worried about games and not these legendary tales about what happened at practice.
Ah the conspiracy where Tebow sucks in no pressure situations and team meatings, but magically turns it on in games. Practice, where all starters are determined in every sport known to man.

[Jsteve01]

and i saw your post before you deleted it Agent

[vandammage13]

I agree with you that Tebow is a gamer but apparently he thinks Orton is one as well.

It is sad that our HC can't see what everyone else does...

I realize he is more qualified to make the decision than I am, given his position, but I know if I were a coach, I would only at worst have lost 2 more games than he did last year...

I just know that I have seen every snap Orton has taken since he has been here, and I am sure Fox has watched all the tape on him as well...but if he has watched the film and thinks he can still win games with Orton then I question his judgement.

I'm not saying we would win more with Tebow or Quinn, but at least you would get a chance to see if they have the potential to be a part of this team's future. We have enough film on Orton to know he isn't good enough.

[Jsteve01]

It is sad that our HC can't see what everyone else does...

I realize he is more qualified to make the decision than I am, given his position, but I know if I were a coach, I would only at worst have lost 2 more games than he did last year...

I just know that I have seen every snap Orton has taken since he has been here, and I am sure Fox has watched all the tape on him as well...but if he has watched the film and thinks he can still win games with Orton then I question his judgement.

I'm not saying we would win more with Tebow or Quinn, but at least you would get a chance to see if they have the potential to be a part of this team's future. We have enough film on Orton to know he isn't good enough.

Not a fair statement to say it's what everyone else sees. Get outside of Denver and you'll find very few people who think Tebow should start over Orton. Not analysts, not former players and not fans of other teams.

[vandammage13]

Not a fair statement to say it's what everyone else sees. Get outside of Denver and you'll find very few people who think Tebow should start over Orton. Not analysts, not former players and not fans of other teams.

It was a relative statement...Let me change it to many Bronco fans.

[Jsteve01]

typically the fan base of any organization is too emotionally invested to see these types of situations objectively

[vandammage13]

typically the fan base of any organization is too emotionally invested to see these types of situations objectively

I agree, but it isn't like we are jumping to conclusions and not being patient here...Orton's been here for going on 3 years now. He's had his chance to win us over.

Not to mention he was pretty lackluster in Chicago.

[claymore]

I agree, but it isn't like we are jumping to conclusions and not being patient here...Orton's been here for going on 3 years now. He's had his chance to win us over.

Not to mention he was pretty lackluster in Chicago.

So why not pull for Quin, the number 2 to take over?

[vandammage13]

So why not pull for Quin, the number 2 to take over?

Well we have 2 #2's...I'll go with the one I think might actually be here next year.

At this point though, I would take Quinn if that's all I could get over Orton.

[chazoe60]

Really we have 3 #2s because we don't have a QB on the roster who should be an NFL starter.

[BroncoNut]

the title of this thread got me thinking about something. Wouldn't it be neat if the bodies of football players were stuffed after they died and put on display in Canton or some NFL/sports museum? Depending of course on the shape of the body at the time of death. For example, That of Al Davis might not be a good candidate for exhibition. Kinda distasteful by society's standards, I would suppose, but wouldn't that be cool?

[TXBRONC]

the title of this thread got me thinking about something. Wouldn't it be neat if the bodies of football players were stuffed after they died and put on display in Canton or some NFL/sports museum? Depending of course on the shape of the body at the time of death. For example, That of Al Davis might not be a good candidate for exhibition. Kinda distasteful by society's standards, I would suppose, but wouldn't that be cool?

No because as you said it's distasteful. But if it wasn't you are correct Davis would hands down be the best candidate and the most cost effective. There would be no need for any kind of embalming because the guy is already as leathery as a saddle bag.

That aside you are really warped. :lol:

[MOtorboat]

No because as you said it's distasteful. But if it wasn't you are correct Davis would hands down be the best candidate and the most cost effective. There would be no need for any kind of embalming because the guy is already as leathery as a saddle bag.

That aside you are really warped. :lol:

Their bodies could at least lie in state in the rotunda for football fans to come and mourn for a few days...

[Ravage!!!]

I think you could have Al Davis sit at Canton right now, and most would think he was dead.

[BroncoNut]

Their bodies could at least lie in state in the rotunda for football fans to come and mourn for a few days...

shut up weirdo. good lord

[Mike]

I think you could have Al Davis sit at Canton right now, and most would think he was dead.

Mass hysteria over zombies would ensue.

[BroncoNut]

No because as you said it's distasteful. But if it wasn't you are correct Davis would hands down be the best candidate and the most cost effective. There would be no need for any kind of embalming because the guy is already as leathery as a saddle bag.

That aside you are really warped. :lol:

no, i mean, how would YOU feel about it. To me it would be like being an organ donor. of course to donate organs, the donor needs to consent before death. say if Peyton manning consented to "donate his body to sports sciences" including displaying his body at a museum or in canton, would you think that would be neat?

[TXBRONC]

shut up weirdo. good lord

Normally I wouldn't say anything about you calling a MO a weirdo because a spade is a spade. But you seem to be very grumpy today so are you constipated or something?

[TXBRONC]

no, i mean, how would YOU feel about it. To me it would be like being an organ donor. of course to donate organs, the donor needs to consent before death. say if Peyton manning consented to "donate his body to sports sciences" including displaying his body at a museum or in canton, would you think that would be neat?

I would rather not turn the Hall of Fame into a freak show.

[BroncoNut]

Normally I wouldn't say anything about you calling a MO a weirdo because a spade is a spade. But you seem to be very grumpy today so are you constipated or something?

I am not really that grumpy, I don't think. I'm just teasing Mo is all. He and I go back quite a ways.

[BroncoNut]

I would rather not turn the Hall of Fame into a freak show.

Al Davis maybe, but Petyton Manning? and then when Jeff Saturday died, you could put him in position with Manning under center. that would be awesome I would think.

[BroncoNut]

alright, back to topic. Forget all about the stuffing of deceased players for display. I'm embarrassed to have thought about it, let alone post about my thoughts.

Now on Kyle, yoiu know, I know it's slow, but let's just give it a rest.

[TXBRONC]

alright, back to topic. Forget all about the stuffing of deceased players for display. I'm embarrassed to have thought about it, let alone post about my thoughts.

Now on Kyle, yoiu know, I know it's slow, but let's just give it a rest.

I'm sorry you're feeling so vulnerable Festus.

[BroncoNut]

I'm sorry you're feeling so vulnerable Festus.

I ate a bunch of tootsie roll pops and am coming down off a sugar high. gosh I am so tired.

[Nomad]

I ate a bunch of tootsie roll pops and am coming down off a sugar high. gosh I am so tired.

5 hr energy! It'll do the trick.

[MOtorboat]

Al Davis maybe, but Petyton Manning? and then when Jeff Saturday died, you could put him in position with Manning under center. that would be awesome I would think.

And I'm the weirdo

:rollseyes:

[Agent of Orange]

wow agent way to take it to the toilet. You always do that when guys disagree with you? Actually yeah you do. I saw you do it pretty quickly in your Tebow conspiracy thread. Sheesh man get over yourself. People around here have differing opinions. It's the nature of a football forum.

Its not really that. There are a lot if clowns that troll. One is from Missouri and the other from El Paso.

[claymore]

Its not really that. There are a lot if clowns that troll. One is from Missouri and the other from El Paso.

Defending our best QB while stating valid points on why our 3rd string QB shouldnt start isnt trolling.

This is trolling.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1357990&postcount=1

[Agent of Orange]

Defending our best QB while stating valid points on why our 3rd string QB shouldnt start isnt trolling.

This is trolling.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1357990&postcount=1

Theyre not valid points. It's a bunch of zeroes trying to feel significant by spreading around the same regurgitated garbage about what happens in practice over and over again. They're doing it because they see the rising tide of fans who want Orton benched. There are a couple of trolls, again one from El Paso and one from Missouri, that get off on trying to antagonize people who want Orton benched. When you look at performence, there are really no valid points you can throw out there. But it's more about trolling to a couple of posters anyway.

BTW, your post is a big FAIL. Look at the theme that has taken over the board. My thread was just the first of many Orton is bad threads after the Raiders game. Its hardly trolling if its honest sentiment and its also what the majority of the fanbase is feeling. So, you're wrong. Something tells me you're used to it though.

[claymore]

Theyre not valid points. It's a bunch of zeroes trying to feel significant by spreading around the same regurgitated garbage about what happens in practice over and over again. They're doing it because they see the rising tide of fans who want Orton benched. There are a couple of trolls, again one from El Paso and one from Missouri, that get off on trying to antagonize people who want Orton benched. When you look at performence, there are really no valid points you can throw out there. But it's more about trolling to a couple of posters anyway.

So winners create excuses for why Tebow isnt the starter? Or do they start threads that state Orton is awful?

Winners throw their temper tantrums online? Expecting no one to disagree with them?

[Agent of Orange]

So winners create excuses for why Tebow isnt the starter? Or do they start threads that state Orton is awful?

Winners throw their temper tantrums online? Expecting no one to disagree with them?

What are you talking about?




Edit--Nevermind. I don't even care really. LOL

[claymore]

Theyre not valid points. It's a bunch of zeroes trying to feel significant by spreading around the same regurgitated garbage about what happens in practice over and over again. They're doing it because they see the rising tide of fans who want Orton benched. There are a couple of trolls, again one from El Paso and one from Missouri, that get off on trying to antagonize people who want Orton benched. When you look at performence, there are really no valid points you can throw out there. But it's more about trolling to a couple of posters anyway.

BTW, your post is a big FAIL. Look at the theme that has taken over the board. My thread was just the first of many Orton is bad threads after the Raiders game. Its hardly trolling if its honest sentiment and its also what the majority of the fanbase is feeling. So, you're wrong. Something tells me you're used to it though.

Orton has been bad for many years starting threads about it now after the fact is silly.

Tebow will start over Orton when he is better.

[Agent of Orange]

Orton has been bad for many years starting threads about it now after the fact is silly.

Tebow will start over Orton when he is better.

=trolling

[claymore]

What are you talking about?




Edit--Nevermind. I don't even care really. LOL

Your reasoning for Tebow being the third best QB on the roster are conspiracies. Not fact, opinions made up by you and others to make you feel good about a bad situation.

[claymore]

Orton has been bad for many years. starting threads about it now after the fact is silly.

Tebow will start over Orton when he is better.
Fact

=trolling
butt hurt

[Agent of Orange]

Fact.

Its good of you to admit that you're a troll.

[claymore]

Its good of you to admit that you're a troll.My opinion differs from yours. Prove that I am wrong about Tebow. Or accept that you might be wrong.

I go off of simple things like the Depth chart, and comments coming out of Dove valley.

Please provide some factual evidence that Tebow is better than Orton and there is some underhanded reason why he isnt our starter.

[Agent of Orange]

My opinion differs from yours. Prove that I am wrong about Tebow. Or accept that you might be wrong.

I go off of simple things like the Depth chart, and comments coming out of Dove valley.

Please provide some factual evidence that Tebow is better than Orton and there is some underhanded reason why he isnt our starter.

You don't have a clearly defined opinion per se. You let others define your opinion by being the opposite. That's not really an opinion. Thats called being a troll. Im not sure why people do this.

[claymore]

You don't have a clearly defined opinion per se. You let others define your opinion by being the opposite. That's not really an opinion. Thats called being a troll. Im not sure why people do this.

I am basing my opinion off of what Fox, and Elway has said. As well as Tebows history of difficulty with his throwing motion, and inability to play QB from under center.

What are you basing your opinions off of?

[Agent of Orange]

I am basing my opinion off of what Fox, and Elway has said.

What has Elway said? I realize several months ago that Elway said Tebow needs polish. It's important to distinguish that from meaning Tebow doesn't give Denver the best chance to win. Has Elway definitively said Orton gives Denver the best chance to win? Just because Elway says Tebow needs polish, that doesn't mean he shouldnt be starting. It's important to know what's being said so you can make the necessary distinctions...that is except if you're a troll who just throws stuff out there.




As well as Tebows history of difficulty with his throwing motion, and inability to play QB from under center.

What are you basing your opinions off of?

Tebow had a QB rating of over 80 as a rookie. Plus he brings the dimension of running and improvization. The offense scored at least 21 points every time under Tebow. Under Orton, the offense has only scored 21 points 3 times in the last 14 games.

I don't care about what Lloyd says or what happens in practice.

[claymore]

What has Elway said? I realize several months ago that Elway said Tebow needs polish. It's important to distinguish that from meaning Tebow doesn't give Denver the best chance to win. Has Elway definitively said Orton gives Denver the best chance to win? Just because Elway says Tebow needs polish, that doesn't mean he shouldnt be starting. It's important to know what's being said so you can make the necessary distinctions...that is except if you're a troll who just throws stuff out there.

Elway has said many things about Tebow. None that i know of have been complimentary of his QB play. Just google it. Im sure you've already read it though.




Tebow had a QB rating of over 80 as a rookie. Plus he brings the dimension of running and improvization. The offense scored at least 21 points every time under Tebow. Under Orton, the offense has only scored 21 points 3 times in the last 14 games.

I don't care about what Lloyd says or what happens in practice.
Tebows QB rating went from 100.5, to 89.4, to 58.2. He steadily got worse as teams stacked up film on him.

I care about practice as does every coach in any sport across the nation. Orton doesnt look awesome in practice, he looks better than Tebow.

[TXBRONC]

Its not really that. There are a lot if clowns that troll. One is from Missouri and the other from El Paso.

A person isn't troll isn't a troll just because they disagree with you.

The two you're referring to are not trolls.

[Agent of Orange]

A person isn't troll isn't a troll just because they disagree with you.

The two you're referring to are not trolls.

No, they most definitely are. Its not that they disagree with me. It's that they've made it a point to run contra to many and have done so in a way that both lacks authenticity and have made it a point to flood the board with it.

"Just because they disagree with you" is not, nor should it be some fall back or some default response for defending trolls. In stating this, you're just trying to facilitate trolls.

[Agent of Orange]

Elway has said many things about Tebow. None that i know of have been complimentary of his QB play. Just google it. Im sure you've already read it though.


You couldnt provide an answer. Just as I thought.



Tebows QB rating went from 100.5, to 89.4, to 58.2. He steadily got worse as teams stacked up film on him.

I care about practice as does every coach in any sport across the nation. Orton doesnt look awesome in practice, he looks better than Tebow.

San Diego had the best defense in the NFL and Tebow still almost brought Denver back at the end of the game. Even when they played against San Diego, the offense still scored over 21 points, which is the most important issue. The offense under Orton has failed to do that 13 out of the last 14 games. And the issue at hand is really who gives the team the best chance. The offense performed better under Tebow even when he had a poor passer rating against the best defense in the NFL.

[Agent of Orange]

AoO thinks his opinion rules, and anyone that disagrees with him is trolling. He's said that time and time again. The faster you guys realize this pompous, arrogant, and self righteous attitude is nothing but a front for the fact that he can't stand when people disagree with him, the better you off simply ignoring his constant "poor Tebow" rants.

He feels quite certain he could coach, GM, own, and operate the Denver Broncos with more efficiency... and actually believes it. Pointing out your opinion only makes him come back with the "you don't have an answer" response, while feeling HIS opinion as fact. Ignore it, move on, and let him live in his "internet bully" world...sitting from his mamma's basement, dressed in his boxing shorts and t-shirt....stained in sauce from his spaghettio's.


No, they most definitely are. Its not that they disagree with me. It's that they've made it a point to run contra to many and have done so in a way that both lacks authenticity and have made it a point to flood the board with it.

"Just because they disagree with you" is not, nor should it be some fall back or some default response for defending trolls. In stating this, you're just trying to facilitate trolls.

already addressed

[Ravage!!!]

wow.. already addressed. That certainly makes your statements true!!! :lol:

The only Troll around here, is you AoO. You want to shove your opinion, and then get into an argument by calling people trolls and proclaiming your opinion fact. Thats trolling. Perhaps you just aren't familiar with what the word means.

[Agent of Orange]

wow.. already addressed. That certainly makes your statements true!!! :lol:

The only Troll around here, is you AoO. You want to shove your opinion, and then get into an argument by calling people trolls and proclaiming your opinion fact. Thats trolling. Perhaps you just aren't familiar with what the word means.

They were true the first time. You repeating something that was already addressed doesnt make it any better the second time. You should stop repeating what other people do thinking you can do better. And what I said about you flooding the board is especially true.

[Ravage!!!]

They were true the first time. And what I said about you flooding the board is especially true. You're like the Johnny Appleseed of Stupid.

You are brilliant.

[BroncoStud]

http://projectrunway.blog.seenon.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/catfight1.jpg