If we draft a QB in the first next year,

[Northman]

How many starts do you give him before you pull the plug?

By now most people have seen my comparisons to Bradford and Stafford and even too HOF QB's compared to Tebow numbers wise where he is right on par with them all. But, to some there is the consensus that Tebow will never be a good QB so my question is where do you draw the line when it comes to seeing that QB perform on the field? Im going to throw up some stats here and the question is at foremost a Yes/No question. But feel free to elaborate on it after you answer.

The question: If say we land a guy like Luck or Barkley and their numbers are like this after 3 starts do you give up on him (as a fan or organization) or do you play him more to see what he has. If a new QB is drafted and his numbers are like this after 3 games what do you do?

16/27 167 0 0
8/17 53 1
13/32 187 1 3

[dogfish]

four. . . .


:coffee:

[Northman]

four. . . .


:coffee:


Way to go out on a limb there Doggy.

[TXBRONC]

Way to go out on a limb there Doggy.

You know Dog he lives life recklessly. :D

[lgenf]

T2 gets all the starts next year and no QB is drafted

That is what happens

Probably pick up a vet QB to sit behind T2 and help with further development

Too many other holes on this team the needs depth almost everywhere

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Unfortunately, we don't really have the luxury of having a QB sit behind a good vet like Rodgers and Rivers did. We're going to have to play him and let it play out like it should. With any Luck ;) if we do draft a first round QB, he'll be good enough to be at least moderately productive and not end up like Ryan Leaf or Jawalrus Russell.

I can't express in words how pissed I'll be if we end up drafting Luck and he turns out to be a bust...

I guess my answer is, I start him all year to get experience. We need to get him up to speed fast if we decide he's our future.

[Northman]

T2 gets all the starts next year and no QB is drafted

That is what happens

Probably pick up a vet QB to sit behind T2 and help with further development

Too many other holes on this team the needs depth almost everywhere


I can say that what you have stated here is MY hope but it doesnt answer the question at hand. If in case we do draft a QB do you give him more time with numbers like that?

[DenBronx]

I would only draft Luck in the 1st. He is killing it again this year. 298 yards and 4 TD's today. His mechanics and footwork is NFL ready.

Best QB prospect since P. Manning.

I would trade what the Bears gave for Cutler if that's what it took.

[RebelRocker]

I would only draft Luck in the 1st. He is killing it again this year. 298 yards and 4 TD's today. His mechanics and footwork is NFL ready.

Best QB prospect since P. Manning.

I would trade what the Bears gave for Cutler if that's what it took.

I would, too. And I think #7 would, too. It all depends on where we pick next year and if we're in range to make that sort of trade.

At this point, our best hope in getting Luck is if the team picking #1 next year already has a lot invested in a QB and they have to get rid of the pick OR if Luck pulls an Eli Manning or ironically enough, an Elway, and refuses to play for the team if they draft them(which leads to Elway making a play for Luck).

[Northman]

I would only draft Luck in the 1st. He is killing it again this year. 298 yards and 4 TD's today. His mechanics and footwork is NFL ready.

Best QB prospect since P. Manning.

I would trade what the Bears gave for Cutler if that's what it took.


He did have a good day, especially in the second half. But on his misses he was WAY off. But could be just jitters. But we know thats against college opponents. so if his numbers looked like this at the pro level after three games would you keep starting him or look to draft another QB?

16/27 167 0 0
8/17 53 1
13/32 187 1 3

[chazoe60]

I'd keep starting him. You've gotta let a young QB just work through rough spots.

[Ravage!!!]

More like WHEN we draft a QB high in the draft next year. But if he's starting as a rookie, it means he's already beaten out Tebow. So he gets the full season.

[Locnar]

Whenever he takes a snap from center I get butterflies in my stomach. When the butterflies went away, I would start him.. Meaning when I felt confident enough in him that he wont botch the snap, and be able to coordinate his feet and shoulders better in the pocket, I would feel better about giving him more starts. I could give a **** about his throwing motion. He's capable of throwing some lazers in tight spots. That pass he threw off his back right foot from sideline to sideline was actually a spectacular feat that harvests no credit because it was for 0 yards. So he can throw.. I just don't feel confident enough with the whole hiking the ball thing.

[dogfish]

T2 gets all the starts next year and no QB is drafted

That is what happens

Probably pick up a vet QB to sit behind T2 and help with further development

Too many other holes on this team the needs depth almost everywhere

what's a T2, some new model of terminator?

[Northman]

More like WHEN we draft a QB high in the draft next year. But if he's starting as a rookie, it means he's already beaten out Tebow. So he gets the full season.

The question wasnt if he was starting as a rookie though. It was after he has played 3 games.

[DenBronx]

He did have a good day, especially in the second half. But on his misses he was WAY off. But could be just jitters. But we know thats against college opponents. so if his numbers looked like this at the pro level after three games would you keep starting him or look to draft another QB?

16/27 167 0 0
8/17 53 1
13/32 187 1 3

I would keep starting him. As good as college QBs may seem they still have to take their lumps at an NFL level. Sooner or later he would get it. Ive seen plenty of pro bowl QBs do horrid their rookie year. Luck is worth the investment.

But I dont see him having those kind of numbers, even his rookie year.


Lets just hope the raiders are not in position to draft him because I have a feeling they will make a change after they get s*** on this year. And staying in the Bay Area would be tempting to Luck. If not the raiders then the 49ers would be very appealing to him. I would think he would choose Harbaugh over Elway with his history there.

I would assume it would take two 1st and change to get him. Just look at what Julio Jones got and add to that.

However, if this team has another 4 win season then we will seriously regret not trading Orton and Quinn when we could have.

[Northman]

I would keep starting him. As good as college QBs may seem they still have to take their lumps at an NFL level. Sooner or later he would get it. Ive seen plenty of pro bowl QBs do horrid their rookie year.


Solid answer and thank you for actually taking the time to answer it. Most in the thread are avoiding it like the plague. Wont comment too much on whether Luck is worth it because that has yet to be determined and frankly i dont think Denver will be bad enough to even draft him. Plus, if he is worth all that people say no team is going to pass on a "sure thing".

[WARHORSE]

Wanna hear something sick?

Peyton Manning ends up on IR, the Colts tank it, and end up with the number one pick in the draft.............:mad:

[Canmore]

Wanna hear something sick?

Peyton Manning ends up on IR, the Colts tank it, and end up with the number one pick in the draft.............:mad:

Those thoughts have been going through my mind. :tsk:

[Northman]

Wanna hear something sick?

Peyton Manning ends up on IR, the Colts tank it, and end up with the number one pick in the draft.............:mad:

Stranger things have happened thats for sure. Manning isnt getting any younger and with his injury this year i could see them going after a QB early next year.

[BroncoJoe]

I just really believe the Broncos are making a big mistake in not playing Tebow this year. Not that Tebow is the answer, but we have questions that remain unanswered. Orton is gone next year IMO, and we'll be in the same damn situation again.

[CoachChaz]

I agree. Would have liked to see Tebow play the year to see what we have to work with. mainly because of the depth available in the next draft.

To answer the thread question...if a rookie is starting at QB, its because he's your best option. If a rookie is the best option, you arent expecting to win many games to begin with, so I stick with the kid and let him learn the hard way with the hope he has developed by the time the team is ready to contend.

Ive always felt the QBs drafted in rounds 2-7 were the ones to sit on the bench an develop. Top talent (1st round skill players) needs to be on the field

[DenBronx]

Wanna hear something sick?

Peyton Manning ends up on IR, the Colts tank it, and end up with the number one pick in the draft.............:mad:

Which would make them a good trade partner. Manning will be back and he just signed another long term deal. If he recovers fully then why would they even consider drafting a QB?


Like North said though, we might not even be in position to draft him. I think this team will do alot better than last year. 8 wins is very likely for us. But that will put us in a tough decision to make. I would hate to see Orton have a great year and the Broncos give him a long term deal only for him to stink it up the very next year.

With 8 or so wins we would have to trade the whole draft to move up to #1....mostly because of the competition to get Luck.

[DenBronx]

Solid answer and thank you for actually taking the time to answer it. Most in the thread are avoiding it like the plague. Wont comment too much on whether Luck is worth it because that has yet to be determined and frankly i dont think Denver will be bad enough to even draft him. Plus, if he is worth all that people say no team is going to pass on a "sure thing".

I think FCQBs are worth the wait. Aaron Rogers is a good example of that. In the long run it's best for the team. Most fans live for the here and now and so do some coaches (Shanny) but that only pays off if you are 1 or 2 players away from a SB. I think it would be best to build around a QB.

Not sure Tebow will ever be that guy in Denver or in the NFL. But I hope he will...time will tell.

[Dirk]

I am in the same area that C-Chaz is. If I draft a rookie in the first round with the intention of plaing him I keep him in and let him learn. If the QB was drafted in the first round because the coach has a hard one for him (ala McD and T) then I would do just what we are doing and sit him.

It doesn't matter anyway. Orton is going to tear it up this year and get us to the AFC Championship game. :behindsofa:

[Ravage!!!]

Which would make them a good trade partner. Manning will be back and he just signed another long term deal. If he recovers fully then why would they even consider drafting a QB?



Maybe. They have until Febuary to find out. By that point, they may find that its highly unlikely that a 35 year old QB recovers from his type/kind of injury. In that case, they could very easily choose NOT to pay the 28 million that is due and let Peyton walk.... ESPECIALLY if they have a chance to draft Andrew Luck. It would be a win - win for them.

[I Eat Staples]

I'd give a talented QB like Luck or Barkley at least a year. Tebow just isn't a talented QB. He's a talented ATHLETE, but not QB.

[Northman]

I'd give a talented QB like Luck or Barkley at least a year. Tebow just isn't a talented QB. He's a talented ATHLETE, but not QB.


So, in otherwords with those stats you would not no?

[DenBronx]

Maybe. They have until Febuary to find out. By that point, they may find that its highly unlikely that a 35 year old QB recovers from his type/kind of injury. In that case, they could very easily choose NOT to pay the 28 million that is due and let Peyton walk.... ESPECIALLY if they have a chance to draft Andrew Luck. It would be a win - win for them.

Ok...then Peyton comes to Denver after the Colts write him off ala John Lynch/Drew Brees and gives us 5 good years. :laugh:

That would never happen but would be ironic since he destroyed Denver in the playoffs so many times.

I would think he would just retire though. He has the money, the ring, the records, the MVPs, HOFer. Nothing left to prove.

[Nomad]

Ok...then Peyton comes to Denver after the Colts write him off ala John Lynch/Drew Brees and gives us 5 good years. :laugh:

That would never happen but would be ironic since he destroyed Denver in the playoffs so many times.

I would think he would just retire though. He has the money, the ringm the MVPs, HOFer. Nothing left to prove.

His wife's good looking too!

[Northman]

Just to remind people, this is the question and it doesnt just apply to Luck or Barkley.


The question: If say we land a guy like Luck or Barkley and their numbers are like this after 3 starts do you give up on him (as a fan or organization) or do you play him more to see what he has. If a new QB is drafted and his numbers are like this after 3 games what do you do?

16/27 167 0 0
8/17 53 1
13/32 187 1 3

No matter where we draft a QB, with these stats after his first 3 starts do you allow him to prove more or feel that we would need to draft another QB at that point.

[Nomad]

Just to remind people, this is the question and it doesnt just apply to Luck or Barkley.



No matter where we draft a QB, with these stats after his first 3 starts do you allow him to prove more or feel that we would need to draft another QB at that point.

For many to most here, you stick with him....isn't Cutler the standard of giving QB's their chance to prove themselves! That's why I have a hard time with people not giving Tebow his chance when at the same time giving other QBs all the chances in the world!

[gobroncsnv]

We could be to qb"s what the lions became to wr's... Keep getting new ones, whether or not they are the biggest need... I don't think that orton will be this team's biggest problem this year... He was the one throwing to B Lloyd when he became among the top receivers in the league last season. My crystal ball is all broken, but don't think it's our biggest need yet. Elway's best years happened when we had a run game... No better friend for a qb than that, other than fixing the d. Isagree vociferously if any one just must, but i know you probably weren't gonna make a move until you heard from me on this one. :>)

[BroncoStud]

For many to most here, you stick with him....isn't Cutler the standard of giving QB's their chance to prove themselves! That's why I have a hard time with people not giving Tebow his chance when at the same time giving other QBs all the chances in the world!

Cutler sure looked good dismantling the Falcons. He's primed for a big season and a Super Bowl run. We got SCREWED in that trade.

[CoachChaz]

How many times will we hear that Cutler is primed for a big season before it actually happens?

The guy will be retired with mediocre stats and zero rings and someone will still inevitably bring up his name

[Ravage!!!]

How many times will we hear that Cutler is primed for a big season before it actually happens?

The guy will be retired with mediocre stats and zero rings and someone will still inevitably bring up his name

How many times has he has the same OC two seasons in a row?

[vandammage13]

Wanna hear something sick?

Peyton Manning ends up on IR, the Colts tank it, and end up with the number one pick in the draft.............:mad:

Another sport, but it reminds me of the Spurs in the NBA when David Robinson went down and they tanked the season and landed Tim Duncan.

Went on to win 4 championships after that.

[Nomad]

Cutler sure looked good dismantling the Falcons. He's primed for a big season and a Super Bowl run. We got SCREWED in that trade.

Didn't watch and don't care, only his fan club cares (Ngata had a great game yesterday too).......my reasoning for bringing up his name is because of the excuses and leniency the guy gets, when other QBs are not even given the same leash to prove or disprove themselves. It was an example for North's question in how you'll always have QBs get more rope than others regradless of how many years it takes.

[Nomad]

How many times will we hear that Cutler is primed for a big season before it actually happens?

The guy will be retired with mediocre stats and zero rings and someone will still inevitably bring up his name

As long as he has that defense, he'll have a shot!

[claymore]

Originally Posted by WARHORSE
Wanna hear something sick?

Peyton Manning ends up on IR, the Colts tank it, and end up with the number one pick in the draft............. :mad:

How ironic would it be to trade fro the Colts #1 overall pick twice for a Stanford QB?

[vandammage13]

The question: If say we land a guy like Luck or Barkley and their numbers are like this after 3 starts do you give up on him (as a fan or organization) or do you play him more to see what he has. If a new QB is drafted and his numbers are like this after 3 games what do you do?

16/27 167 0 0
8/17 53 1
13/32 187 1 3

It would be crazy to give up on him after three games...You make a commitment by drafting a guy that high, then you have to stick with him for at least two years and give him a chance to get better.

Seems like we already have a QB on our roster that matches that criteria and his #'s were actually better than the ones posted above, but for whatever reason, people seem to not want to give him that chance to succeed.

I'm not referring to the fact he's not starting, but just the fact that many are willing to already give up on him altogether...

[vandammage13]

How ironic would it be to trade fro the Colts #1 overall pick twice for a Stanford QB?

That would probably be classified more as a coincidence.

[claymore]

It would be crazy to give up on him after three games...You make a commitment by drafting a guy that high, then you have to stick with him for at least two years and give him a chance to get better.

Seems like we already have a QB on our roster that matches that criteria and his #'s were actually better than the ones posted above, but for whatever reason, people seem to not want to give him that chance to succeed.

I'm not referring to the fact he's not starting, but just the fact that many are willing to already give up on him altogether...

I want my QB of the future to be better than Kyle Orton and Brady Quin in every way. I dont even want it to be close.

[claymore]

That would probably be classified more as a coincidence.

Whatever it is, it would be fancy.

[SOCALORADO.]

Didn't watch and don't care, only his fan club cares (Ngata had a great game yesterday too).......my reasoning for bringing up his name is because of the excuses and leniency the guy gets, when other QBs are not even given the same leash to prove or disprove themselves. It was an example for North's question in how you'll always have QBs get more rope than others regradless of how many years it takes.

I think it has to do with the simple fact that Tebow cant play from under center, never has, and its obvious to anyone.
Luck can play in any pro-style offense and currently does.
( So does Barkley and Landry)

[underrated29]

seattle is going to get him.

[Nomad]

I think it has to do with the simple fact that Tebow cant play from under center, never has, and its obvious to anyone.
Luck can play in any pro-style offense and currently does.
( So does Barkley and Landry)

North said to leave those guys out :lol:, because they do have an advantage!

We haven't given Tebow the time to develop! As many of you have said before, he was a McD draft **** up and should of been a later round pick then it seems he would have a longer rope because he was taken in the wrong round by a person who didn't know how to evaluate talent.

[SOCALORADO.]

North said to leave those guys out :lol:, because they do have an advantage!

We haven't given Tebow the time to develop! As many of you have said before, he was a McD draft **** up and should of been a later round pick then it seems he would have a longer rope because he was taken in the wrong round by a person who didn't know how to evaluate talent.

So let me get this straight, DEN needs to give a guy who has NEVER played from under center "time" so he can develop taking snaps from under center, playing from the pocket, making hot reads, going through his progressions with WRs, and reading defenses, all the while playing games in the NFL?
Right. good call. I wonder why the FO and HC dont get this?

Tebow should ALREADY KNOW how to play from under center. He should already have the basic ability to be comfortable running a pro-style offense from under center.
The simple fact that hes lost under center is glaringly obvious and trying to teach him now is a 4 year project. Basically another 4 years of "college" QB training while on the job.
So DEN should spend 4 years trying to train a guy who absolutely hates playing from under center, and immediately when seeing that his 1st read is covered reverts back to what he always did in college.....run, basically throwing away all that time on a guy who may not ever pan out in hopes that he does.

Or DEN could just draft a QB with an incredible high ceiling that already is just as athletic, and can already play at a competent level in any offense installed immediately his rookie year.

[Northman]

North said to leave those guys out :lol:, because they do have an advantage!

We haven't given Tebow the time to develop! As many of you have said before, he was a McD draft **** up and should of been a later round pick then it seems he would have a longer rope because he was taken in the wrong round by a person who didn't know how to evaluate talent.

Well, no. I didnt say leave them out just dont focus only on them.

The point to all of this is lets say you take Andrew Luck and his numbers look like the stats i put up. Those stats are currently worse than what Tebow has put up in 3 games. So the question is do you give up on Andrew Luck because his stats are worse? Or do you let him play some more games to see if he can be the guy?

[Nomad]

Just to remind people, this is the question and it doesnt just apply to Luck or Barkley.



No matter where we draft a QB, with these stats after his first 3 starts do you allow him to prove more or feel that we would need to draft another QB at that point.

I misread this question.

No, you give them their shot and that's why I gave Jay as an example because the guy has more chances/excuses than anyone I've seen before.

I understand, SOCAL, has an emotional investment in Luck and Barkley perhaps Landry, but those guys won't be BRONCOS....Tebow is and give the man his time to develop under a veteran QB, pass or fail! If Elway feels the way SOCAL does then get rid of him, if he's gonna keep him, then don't give up until you've exhausted yourself trying.

[Northman]

So let me get this straight, DEN needs to give a guy who has NEVER played from under center "time" so he can develop taking snaps from under center, playing from the pocket, making hot reads, going through his progressions with WRs, and reading defenses, all the while playing games in the NFL?
Right. good call. I wonder why the FO and HC dont get this?

Tebow should ALREADY KNOW how to play from under center. He should already have the basic ability to be comfortable running a pro-style offense from under center.
The simple fact that hes lost under center is glaringly obvious and trying to teach him now is a 4 year project. Basically another 4 years of "college" QB training while on the job.
So DEN should spend 4 years trying to train a guy who absolutely hates playing from under center, and immediately when seeing that his 1st read is covered reverts back to what he always did in college.....run, basically throwing away all that time on a guy who may not ever pan out in hopes that he does.

Or DEN could just draft a QB with an incredible high ceiling that already is just as athletic, and can already play at a competent level in any offense installed immediately his rookie year.


Sorry Socal, this post is full of epic fail.

Its not that Tebow doesnt know HOW to play under center. Its just that he doesnt have the experience under center. And no, it wouldnt take him 4 years to learn that. Thats just naive and ignorant on your part to claim that. :lol:

[Northman]

I misread this question.

No, you give them their shot and that's why I gave Jay as an example because the guy has more chances/excuses than anyone I've seen before.

I understand, SOCAL, has an emotional investment in Luck and Barkley perhaps Landry, but those guys won't be BRONCOS....Tebow is and give the man his time to develop under a veteran QB, pass or fail! If Elway feels the way SOCAL does then get rid of him, if he gonna keep him, then don't give up until you've exhausted yourself trying.

Yes, the fanbois on both sides are really tiresome.

[NightTerror218]

So let me get this straight, DEN needs to give a guy who has NEVER played from under center "time" so he can develop taking snaps from under center, playing from the pocket, making hot reads, going through his progressions with WRs, and reading defenses, all the while playing games in the NFL?
Right. good call. I wonder why the FO and HC dont get this?

Tebow should ALREADY KNOW how to play from under center. He should already have the basic ability to be comfortable running a pro-style offense from under center.
The simple fact that hes lost under center is glaringly obvious and trying to teach him now is a 4 year project. Basically another 4 years of "college" QB training while on the job.
So DEN should spend 4 years trying to train a guy who absolutely hates playing from under center, and immediately when seeing that his 1st read is covered reverts back to what he always did in college.....run, basically throwing away all that time on a guy who may not ever pan out in hopes that he does.

Or DEN could just draft a QB with an incredible high ceiling that already is just as athletic, and can already play at a competent level in any offense installed immediately his rookie year.


Not many QBs play from under center in college. Maybe a handful of colleges run the pro-style offense. Many run spread, or pro-style variations.

Alabama, USC, Tennessee, Arkansas, UCLA, Rutgers, Ohio State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Georgia.


Not running under center really means complete shit since most QBs dont do it coming out of college. I would go out on a limb to say 75% or more of NFL starting QBs did not run a pro-style offense in college.

[SOCALORADO.]

Sorry Socal, this post is full of epic fail.

Its not that Tebow doesnt know HOW to play under center. Its just that he doesnt have the experience under center. And no, it wouldnt take him 4 years to learn that. Thats just naive and ignorant on your part to claim that. :lol:

Apparently the FO and HC feels that Tebow is the epic fail.
Or he would be playing.

[claymore]

I misread this question.

No, you give them their shot and that's why I gave Jay as an example because the guy has more chances/excuses than anyone I've seen before.

I understand, SOCAL, has an emotional investment in Luck and Barkley perhaps Landry, but those guys won't be BRONCOS....Tebow is and give the man his time to develop under a veteran QB, pass or fail! If Elway feels the way SOCAL does then get rid of him, if he's gonna keep him, then don't give up until you've exhausted yourself trying.
Cutler set the Single season passing record for the Broncos in his third year, and has already taken the bears to a NFCCG. All in 5 years, under 4 different OC's. His abilities were never in question like Tebows are. Mike Shanahan was excited because he could finally open up the playbook.

Not many QBs play from under center in college. Maybe a handful of colleges run the pro-style offense. Many run spread, or pro-style variations.

Alabama, USC, Tennessee, Arkansas, UCLA, Rutgers, Ohio State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Georgia.


Not running under center really means complete shit since most QBs dont do it coming out of college. I would go out on a limb to say 75% or more of NFL starting QBs did not run a pro-style offense in college.

That explains why only a few QB's are taken in the 1st round on a normal year. The rest are considered projects, or depth. Like Tebow was rated.

[NightTerror218]

Apparently the FO and HC feels that Tebow is the epic fail.
Or he would be playing.

Or that he needs some more coaching. Wow what a concept. :eek:

[SOCALORADO.]

Not many QBs play from under center in college. Maybe a handful of colleges run the pro-style offense. Many run spread, or pro-style variations.

Alabama, USC, Tennessee, Arkansas, UCLA, Rutgers, Ohio State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Georgia.


Not running under center really means complete shit since most QBs dont do it coming out of college. I would go out on a limb to say 75% or more of NFL starting QBs did not run a pro-style offense in college.

Wrong. Many more teams play a pro-style offense! LOL!
Now high school teams rarely play from under center. Thats true.

Your simply trying to derail from the obvious fact that Tebow cant play from under center, and never has.
Your also trying to derail from the simple fact that NFL QBs MUST be able to play from under center competently to be successful in the NFL....
like Mark Sanchez.

[claymore]

Or that he needs some more coaching. Wow what a concept. :eek:

Problem is the Broncos need a starter now. Not 3 years from now.

[SOCALORADO.]

Or that he needs some more coaching. Wow what a concept. :eek:

Tebow can go back to college and get those 4 more years of big boy, pro-style QB coaching, and then he can come back! :lol:

[NightTerror218]

Cutler set the Single season passing record for the Broncos in his third year, and has already taken the bears to a NFCCG. All in 5 years, under 4 different OC's. His abilities were never in question like Tebows are. Mike Shanahan was excited because he could finally open up the playbook.


That explains why only a few QB's are taken in the 1st round on a normal year. The rest are considered projects, or depth. Like Tebow was rated.

Most of the QBs taken are not from those few colleges that run to pro-style offense. That would be like saying....."You wont be a 1st round draft pick unless you go to these schools. BTW Auburn is not one of the those colleges, Cam was #1, Kansas St., Washington, Missouri, TC, Nevada, and others all had 1sdt round QBs do not run a strict pro-style offense.

So basically 90% of QBs are projects......thanks for the clarification. :rolleyes:

[NightTerror218]

Wrong. Many more teams play a pro-style offense! LOL!
Now high school teams rarely play from under center. Thats true.

Your simply trying to derail from the obvious fact that Tebow cant play from under center, and never has.
Your also trying to derail from the simple fact that NFL QBs MUST be able to play from under center competently to be successful in the NFL....
like Mark Sanchez.

No you are wrong. Most collegs run a variety of pro-style and not a strict pro-style. I dont know where you read your crap but obviously it is not rights.

O yes I am trying to derail your narrow minded thinking that you have to be a pro-style QB to be a starter in this league, or that you have you cant succeed unless you come from one of those colleges. Give me some facts and not bullshit and I will be happy. :beer:

[NightTerror218]

Tebow can go back to college and get those 4 more years of big boy, pro-style QB coaching, and then he can come back! :lol:

Why dont you just send all QBs back for it. Since apparently you cant get coached in the NFL according to you. :rolleyes:

[SOCALORADO.]

No you are wrong. Most collegs run a variety of pro-style and not a strict pro-style. I dont know where you read your crap but obviously it is not rights.

O yes I am trying to derail your narrow minded thinking that you have to be a pro-style QB to be a starter in this league, or that you have you cant succeed unless you come from one of those colleges. Give me some facts and not bullshit and I will be happy. :beer:

Now if only tebow had learned something other than the "jump pass", he wouldnt be 3rd string. :lol:

[SOCALORADO.]

Why dont you just send all QBs back for it. Since apparently you cant get coached in the NFL according to you. :rolleyes:

DEN should send back all of its QB! :lol:

[Northman]

Got to love em fanbois.

[NightTerror218]

Now if only tebow had learned something other than the "jump pass", he wouldnt be 3rd string. :lol:

too bad he is not 3rd string. And has barely anytime to work with coaches. He is improving though as seen in the last preseason game, he stayed in the pocket better.

[DenBronx]

Apparently the FO and HC feels that Tebow is the epic fail.
Or he would be playing.

I sort of agree.

Cam Newton was supposed to be a project QB and the Panthers didnt care. They put him in regardless of the results. Tebow is always going to be the unknown until he plays a whole game with the 1st team.

[claymore]

No you are wrong. Most collegs run a variety of pro-style and not a strict pro-style. I dont know where you read your crap but obviously it is not rights.

O yes I am trying to derail your narrow minded thinking that you have to be a pro-style QB to be a starter in this league, or that you have you cant succeed unless you come from one of those colleges. Give me some facts and not bullshit and I will be happy. :beer:
The learning curve of a spread offense QB is much greater than that of a QB that played on a team that ran a pro style offense, or and offense that had variations of it thrown in.

Tebow is well behind the power curve.

[claymore]

I sort of agree.

Cam Newton was supposed to be a project QB and the Panthers didnt care. They put him in regardless of the results. Tebow is always going to be the unknown until he plays a whole game with the 1st team.

If Tebow goes in I would like to see 6 full games.

[vandammage13]

The learning curve of a spread offense QB is much greater than that of a QB that played on a team that ran a pro style offense, or and offense that had variations of it thrown in.

Tebow is well behind the power curve.

Tell that to Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn.

[claymore]

too bad he is not 3rd string. And has barely anytime to work with coaches. He is improving though as seen in the last preseason game, he stayed in the pocket better.

He is third string. If Tebow goes down Quin is the starter. Tebow will see more time this year because he has some gimmick/short yardage plays designed specifically for him.

[claymore]

Tell that to Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn.

Both better QB's than Tebow.

[NightTerror218]

I sort of agree.

Cam Newton was supposed to be a project QB and the Panthers didnt care. They put him in regardless of the results. Tebow is always going to be the unknown until he plays a whole game with the 1st team.

They were also sitting behind Clausen who really sucks. Orton is atleast a decent QB.

[NightTerror218]

He is third string. If Tebow goes down Quin is the starter. Tebow will see more time this year because he has some gimmick/short yardage plays designed specifically for him.

ExactlyIF Tebow goes down Quinn would be the starter. Hence Quinn is third string. I could not have said it better myself.

[claymore]

ExactlyIF Tebow goes down Quinn would be the starter. Hence Quinn is third string. I could not have said it better myself.

I meant if Orton goes down Quin is the starter.

[NightTerror218]

Both better QB's than Tebow.

Both are pro-offense busts. Quinn can at least be a backup Clausen might be done. He at least was given chance to start several games to show he could not adjust.

You are killing me, I would take Tebow over Clausen any day. Clausen is horrible.

[NightTerror218]

I meant if Orton goes down Quin is the starter.

That is quite the assumption there buddy. You dont know that and it has never been stated. Did you see the way Quinn sucked against 2nd stringers and 3rd stringers? He locked like JaMarcus Russell out there, completely lost.

[claymore]

That is quite the assumption there buddy. You dont know that and it has never been stated. Did you see the way Quinn sucked against 2nd stringers and 3rd stringers? He locked like JaMarcus Russell out there, completely lost.
I agree QUin sucks. I just think Tebow is worse.
If Orton gets hurt this season and has to leave a game for good or miss some playing time, Quinn is the primary backup. That's why Quinn, a former first-round draft pick from Notre Dame, wasn't released.

If Orton stays healthy this season, Tebow figures to get more playing time than Quinn because of the situational duties Tebow will have.

The Broncos have some plays in the offense specially designed for Tebow, run-pass options at various spots on the field. So look for Tebow to get some playing time even if Orton stays healthy.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18830600

[claymore]

Both are pro-offense busts. Quinn can at least be a backup Clausen might be done. He at least was given chance to start several games to show he could not adjust.

You are killing me, I would take Tebow over Clausen any day. Clausen is horrible.

Both busts. One ahead of Tebow on the Depth chart.

If Tebow cant beat these jabronies out NOW, then I dont want to waste this draft on hope for tebow.

[Northman]

Both busts. One ahead of Tebow on the Depth chart.

If Tebow cant beat these jabronies out NOW, then I dont want to waste this draft on hope for tebow.

Problem is, Tebow never had a chance to beat them out. Orton is starting because of his experience and Fox BELIEVES he gives us the best chance to win now. Even if Luck was on this squad he would not be starting over Orton. :lol:

[NightTerror218]

Both busts. One ahead of Tebow on the Depth chart.

If Tebow cant beat these jabronies out NOW, then I dont want to waste this draft on hope for tebow.

Quinn has what 4 yrs in and Tebow has 1? How is that a fair judgment when 1 clearly has seen the field a lot the other is ridiculed by people and not given the chance?

I will not write Tebow off until I see him on the field more. If he was starting for us and completely sucking that would be 1 think. But not getting the chance to too even make an impact and being called a bust is plain stupid.

[NightTerror218]

Problem is, Tebow never had a chance to beat them out. Orton is starting because of his experience and Fox BELIEVES he gives us the best chance to win now. Even if Luck was on this squad he would not be starting over Orton. :lol:

and that is the sad truth.

[Northman]

I will not write Tebow off until I see him on the field more. If he was starting for us and completely sucking that would be 1 thing.

Bingo.

[claymore]

Problem is, Tebow never had a chance to beat them out. Orton is starting because of his experience and Fox BELIEVES he gives us the best chance to win now. Even if Luck was on this squad he would not be starting over Orton. :lol:

Tebow had a chance. Its called training camp. He never gave Fox a reason to bump him up to first team.

The competition for #2 was wide open, and Tebow couldnt beat out Brady QUin. Quin isnt even a good backup QB. Orton is a good back up QB, and neither of them cam lcoes to overtaking the top spot.

[Northman]

Tebow had a chance. Its called training camp. He never gave Fox a reason to bump him up to first team.

The competition for #2 was wide open, and Tebow couldnt beat out Brady QUin. Quin isnt even a good backup QB. Orton is a good back up QB, and neither of them cam lcoes to overtaking the top spot.

If you believe what Fox said in regards to a "competition" than you are truly more naive than i thought. That public display was nothing more than lip service. Tebow never got a real shot at it. You know it, and i know it. Quit being so damn blind dude.

[NightTerror218]

Tebow had a chance. Its called training camp. He never gave Fox a reason to bump him up to first team.

The competition for #2 was wide open, and Tebow couldnt beat out Brady QUin. Quin isnt even a good backup QB. Orton is a good back up QB, and neither of them cam lcoes to overtaking the top spot.

No Qb besides Orton was ever given 1st team reps. That was a before TC decision and complete BS told to us. And as for competition for #2, Tebow got most reps in TC and has not be moved to #3. The only reason he is not the clear #2 is because he needs to be able to work with coaches and get a little more refined. I think he will be starting next year for us.

[Nomad]

Cutler set the Single season passing record for the Broncos in his third year, and has already taken the bears to a NFCCG. All in 5 years, under 4 different OC's. His abilities were never in question like Tebows are. Mike Shanahan was excited because he could finally open up the playbook.


That explains why only a few QB's are taken in the 1st round on a normal year. The rest are considered projects, or depth. Like Tebow was rated.

mmmkay.....TT is beginning his second and it took JC till his third year to prove his worthiness.....sort of. I'm still not seeing the same leeway given to JC as given to TT.


And you say TT isn't a first round material but you hold him to play like first round talent....you are right clay, fans are FICKLE including yourself and some others here!

[claymore]

Quinn has what 4 yrs in and Tebow has 1? How is that a fair judgment when 1 clearly has seen the field a lot the other is ridiculed by people and not given the chance?

I will not write Tebow off until I see him on the field more. If he was starting for us and completely sucking that would be 1 think. But not getting the chance to too even make an impact and being called a bust is plain stupid.

Quin has 4 years. He isnt the future of anything. He sucks. Yet the Broncos kept him. He wasnt cut, because they didnt have a better backup on the team.

Do you really think we would have kept Quin on the team if this franchise had any faith in Tebow?

[NightTerror218]

mmmkay.....TT is beginning his second and it took JC till his third year to prove his worthiness.....sort of. I'm still not seeing the same leeway given to JC as given to TT.


And you say TT isn't a first round material but you hold him to play like first round talent....you are right clay, fans are FICKLE including yourself!

I dont give a crap where TT was drafted. It was done, deal with it. He is now a QB on our roster. For f*** sake.

[NightTerror218]

Quin has 4 years. He isnt the future of anything. He sucks. Yet the Broncos kept him. He wasnt cut, because they didnt have a better backup on the team.

Do you really think we would have kept Quin on the team if this franchise had any faith in Tebow?

Yah because most teams have 3 QBs, but they use to only dress 2 for game days. They want to be able to work Tebow and give him some real coaching they he never got. Of course they would not cut Quinn, he could be a backup for any team. They team would trade him if they got an offer, but they will not trade TT (IMO) since he is only in his 2nd year, and he is too much of a fan fav to get rid of.

[claymore]

mmmkay.....TT is beginning his second and it took JC till his third year to prove his worthiness.....sort of. I'm still not seeing the same leeway given to JC as given to TT.


And you say TT isn't a first round material but you hold him to play like first round talent....you are right clay, fans are FICKLE including yourself and some others here!

JC was the starter in his second year. He beat out Plummer, and then franchise traded him (Plummer).

TT isnt first round material. But thats where we took him.

Tebow is doing what I expect out of him. He is riding pine.

[Northman]

Q

Do you really think we would have kept Quin on the team if this franchise had any faith in Tebow?

Yes. Most teams keep 3 QB's on the roster. Wasnt it you who was laughing at the rumor that Weber was better than Tebow yet where did he end up? Yea, thats what i thought.

The whole idea behind this thread (thanks for hijacking it jerkweed) is you dont give up on a QB after 3 games. No matter if its Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, Tim Tebow, or Fig Newton. At the end of the day you just dont do it and if you do you pay the price.

The stats up put up at the beginning of the thread were Steve Young's stats in his first 3 games. His are worse than Tebow's yet i think Tampa is probably regretting letting Steve go.

[Nomad]

I dont give a crap where TT was drafted. It was done, deal with it. He is now a QB on our roster. For f*** sake.

Settle down young fella:lol:!! No need to explode on me, I'm in somewhat of an agreement with you.

[claymore]

Yes. Most teams keep 3 QB's on the roster. Wasnt it you who was laughing at the rumor that Weber was better than Tebow yet where did he end up? Yea, thats what i thought.

The whole idea behind this thread (thanks for hijacking it jerkweed) is you dont give up on a QB after 3 games. No matter if its Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, Tim Tebow, or Fig Newton. At the end of the day you just dont do it and if you do you pay the price.

The stats up put up at the beginning of the thread were Steve Young's stats in his first 3 games. His are worse than Tebow's yet i think Tampa is probably regretting letting Steve go.

LOL @ jerkweed.

Im not necessarily saying "give up" on Tim Tebow. Im just saying lets draft a better QB next year.

Tebow can play football. But I dont think he will ever be that good of a QB.

[Nomad]

JC was the starter in his second year. He beat out Plummer, and then franchise traded him (Plummer).

TT isnt first round material. But thats where we took him.

Tebow is doing what I expect out of him. He is riding pine.

I'm not disagreeing that JC is better than Tebow (Plummer gave up more than Cutler beat him out), but the point of the topic is how people have given up on Tebow without giving him his chance. Can you count the lockout in his development, not really, and TT didn't do himself any favors no working on his weakness though he worked on becoming a LB.:lol:

All I say give him his time whether with the BRONCOS or another team before writing him off. And I know for you, you would have had a little more patience if it wasn't for the TT fan club....you're turned off by the guy in the same way I was with JC.

[slim]

LOL @ jerkweed.

Im not necessarily saying "give up" on Tim Tebow. Im just saying lets draft a better QB next year.

Tebow can play football. But I dont think he will ever be that good of a QB.

I want to argue with you, but you called McD from day 1. So now I take everything you say as gospel.

[claymore]

I want to argue with you, but you called McD from day 1. So now I take everything you say as gospel.

Tebow is just a bump in the road Slim. We are close to greatness with Elway, Fox and maybe Xanders too.

[Nomad]

Yes. Most teams keep 3 QB's on the roster. Wasnt it you who was laughing at the rumor that Weber was better than Tebow yet where did he end up? Yea, thats what i thought.

The whole idea behind this thread (thanks for hijacking it jerkweed) is you dont give up on a QB after 3 games. No matter if its Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, Tim Tebow, or Fig Newton. At the end of the day you just dont do it and if you do you pay the price.

The stats up put up at the beginning of the thread were Steve Young's stats in his first 3 games. His are worse than Tebow's yet i think Tampa is probably regretting letting Steve go.

Sorry North....I'm the jerkweed for bringing up JC's name and clay's an innocent bystander who got sucked in:lol:, though I believe it fit the topic of discussion, at least from a 'not giving up on' standpoint.

[slim]

Tebow is just a bump in the road Slim. We are close to greatness with Elway, Fox and maybe Xanders too.

Well, we have kind of hit bottom, so I suppose we only have one way to go.

I am glad Elway and Fox are running the show now. I have faith in both of them.

[SOCALORADO.]

too bad he is not 3rd string. And has barely anytime to work with coaches. He is improving though as seen in the last preseason game, he stayed in the pocket better.

Oh thats right! LOL!
Hes co-2nd string, so as not to offend the almighty tebowites into burning down Dove Valley! LOL!
Co-2nd string! Thats so perfect for Tebow.
Cant wait to see co-silver medals handed out at the olympics!

[Nomad]

I want to argue with you, but you called McD from day 1. So now I take everything you say as gospel.

I never underestimate clay's brilliant mind and he was right about McD.

[claymore]

I'm not disagreeing that JC is better than Tebow (Plummer gave up more than Cutler beat him out), but the point of the topic is how people have given up on Tebow without giving him his chance. Can you count the lockout in his development, not really, and TT didn't do himself any favors no working on his weakness though he worked on becoming a LB.:lol:

All I say give him his time whether with the BRONCOS or another team before writing him off. And I know for you, you would have had a little more patience if it wasn't for the TT fan club....you're turned off by the guy in the same way I was with JC.

I have zero faith in Orton and QUin. I think they are terrible. If Tebow cant beat these guys out right away, then I know he isnt the answer.

Plummer did give up. Thats one of the reasons I hated him. He was weak minded, and aloof.

[claymore]

Well, we have kind of hit bottom, so I suppose we only have one way to go.

I am glad Elway and Fox are running the show now. I have faith in both of them.

I think we will be much better than last year. Im almost concerned that Orton is going to have a great year.

Thats a good problem I guess!

[BroncoNut]

LOL @ jerkweed.

Im not necessarily saying "give up" on Tim Tebow. Im just saying lets draft a better QB next year.

Tebow can play football. But I dont think he will ever be that good of a QB.

If someone called me a jerkweed, I would be so pissed off. But being the puzzy that you are, I guess I'm not surprised that you LOL.

[SOCALORADO.]

If you believe what Fox said in regards to a "competition" than you are truly more naive than i thought. That public display was nothing more than lip service. Tebow never got a real shot at it. You know it, and i know it. Quit being so damn blind dude.

So now Clay is blind. As well as all of the analysts, the pundits, the experts, not to mention the HC and the FO are all blind. All of em. Right. :lol:

[BroncoNut]

I have zero faith in Orton and QUin. I think they are terrible. If Tebow cant beat these guys out right away, then I know he isnt the answer.

Plummer did give up. Thats one of the reasons I hated him. He was weak minded, and aloof.

you would HATE me in real life.

[claymore]

you would HATE me in real life.

I would only hate you if you were worse than Brady Quin Nut. THATS the measuring stick.

[claymore]

Originally Posted by Northman
If you believe what Fox said in regards to a "competition" than you are truly more naive than i thought. That public display was nothing more than lip service. Tebow never got a real shot at it. You know it, and i know it. Quit being so damn blind dude.


I have no reason to not believ Fox, or Elway for that matter. I think that Tebow was so far behind Orton that they couldnt realistically waste the teams time by holding a true QB competition.

I doubt the team went straight into 11 on 11's. Im sure they had meetings QB/Offense etc... where Tebow failed to shine.

[SOCALORADO.]

i have no reason to not believ fox, or elway for that matter. I think that tebow was so far behind orton that they couldnt realistically waste the teams time by holding a true qb competition.

I doubt the team went straight into 11 on 11's. Im sure they had meetings qb/offense etc... Where tebow failed to shine......again.

fixed

[vandammage13]

Both better QB's than Tebow.

Possibly, but I haven't seen any evidence yet to support that claim.

[NightTerror218]

So now Clay is blind. As well as all of the analysts, the pundits, the experts, not to mention the HC and the FO are all blind. All of em. Right. :lol:

Quit throwing the HC and FO under bus in your extreme view that has no basis. You put words in their mouth like you talk to them on the phone and know them. They never said anything about what you imply daily. You are just full of shit and dont back shit up with any sort of concrete data/information/websites....squat.

[silkamilkamonico]

TT has shown absolutely no progression since last year. None. The idea was even thought of that Brady Quinn could be the backup this year and beat him out. Brady Quinn is improving in his 5th year more than TT is in his 2nd? That doesn't bode well for Tebow or the organizations "investment".

The thing I personally don't like about Tebow is his greatest strength. the fact that he's a gamer. He plays well in games. He sucks in practice. So while he's sucking in practice, so does the rest of the entire offense. I personally feel keeping a guy like that is saying "f--k you" to the other 10 players on offense.

[NightTerror218]

I have no reason to not believ Fox, or Elway for that matter. I think that Tebow was so far behind Orton that they couldnt realistically waste the teams time by holding a true QB competition.

I doubt the team went straight into 11 on 11's. Im sure they had meetings QB/Offense etc... where Tebow failed to shine.

Like Orton failed to win games, or even keep us in most of the games. And how he fell apart many times.

[NightTerror218]

TT has shown absolutely no progression since last year. None. The idea was even thought of that Brady Quinn could be the backup this year and beat him out. Brady Quinn is improving in his 5th year more than TT is in his 2nd? That doesn't bode well for Tebow or the organizations "investment".

The thing I personally don't like about Tebow is his greatest strength. the fact that he's a gamer. He plays well in games. He sucks in practice. So while he's sucking in practice, so does the rest of the entire offense. I personally feel keeping a guy like that is saying "f--k you" to the other 10 players on offense.

He has also had no work from McDaniels and could not work out with coaches in the offseason........how does that improve him from 1 yr to anther?

[claymore]

Possibly, but I haven't seen any evidence yet to support that claim.

Fair enough. IMO, If he was as good as we all hoped, I think we all would have seen alot more of him. I think the Org would want to see more of him as well.

[NightTerror218]

Fair enough. IMO, If he was as good as we all hoped, I think we all would have seen alot more of him. I think the Org would want to see more of him as well.

And I think we will see a lot of him next season, after he gets some real work in with the coaching staff and Orton and Quinn walk off into the sunset holding hands when their contracts are up.

[claymore]

Like Orton failed to win games, or even keep us in most of the games. And how he fell apart many times.

Orton sucks. I cant defend him. He is just better than Tebow, Thats a key reason why I dont like Tebow.

[NightTerror218]

Orton sucks. I cant defend him. He is just better than Tebow, Thats a key reason why I dont like Tebow.

He is better then Tebow in practice and he has way less experience and actually playing time and coaching. Gotcha.

[vandammage13]

Fair enough. IMO, If he was as good as we all hoped, I think we all would have seen alot more of him. I think the Org would want to see more of him as well.

I agree...I had hoped he would be further along by now than he is and that he would have just beaten Orton outright...

I think there are still some outlying things that factored into him not winning the starting gig, such as the lockout, but I still expected him to go into camp and win that job.

He did not get it done as far as the coaches were concerned, but I still think he'll pan out and become a good starting QB eventually.

[silkamilkamonico]

He has also had no work from McDaniels and could not work out with coaches in the offseason........how does that improve him from 1 yr to anther?

What was he doing in the offseason, while guys like COlt McCoy was learning from Brett Favre? I don't know I'm asking....what did TT do in the offseason to become a better QB? He wasn't working on his mechanics, because from what i heard through TC was it was the exact same as last year.

[claymore]

And I think we will see a lot of him next season, after he gets some real work in with the coaching staff and Orton and Quinn walk off into the sunset holding hands when their contracts are up.

If that was the case Tebow would be the undisputed #2. We had zero reason to kee Quin this year IF EFX thought Tebow was the future.

[silkamilkamonico]

i would like to know what these people that are pro Tebow's are actually trying to argue here? Are they saying coach Fox and john Elway are wrong?

They tried to trade Orton because they wanted to go with Tebow, and when that fell through, they realized TT was closer to being beat out by Brady Quinn than he was at beating out Kyle Orton.

[NightTerror218]

What was he doing in the offseason, while guys like COlt McCoy was learning from Brett Favre? I don't know I'm asking....what did TT do in the offseason to become a better QB? He wasn't working on his mechanics, because from what i heard through TC was it was the exact same as last year.

Well it is hard to work on mechanics when you are doing it wrong in the first place. So it try improve incorrect mechanics sucks. He did make a mistake by not hiring someone and trying to do it himself though.....big mistake.

[vandammage13]

If that was the case Tebow would be the undisputed #2. We had zero reason to kee Quin this year IF EFX thought Tebow was the future.

I really think that the FO named them as co # 2's to temper fan enthusiasm for Tebow.

They don't think Tebow is ready to handle the starting gig yet and they don't want the fan pressure of starting Tebow too soon when Orton inevitably plays like Orton.

They really did a good job of tempering the fan's expectations of Tebow this offseason (as evidenced by recent fan polls), in spite of the fact that Tebow looked very capable during the preseason games. Quite remarkable what they were able to accomplish there, really....

Fact of the matter is, Tebow by far outperformed Quinn in preseason action....not even close.

[NightTerror218]

If that was the case Tebow would be the undisputed #2. We had zero reason to kee Quin this year IF EFX thought Tebow was the future.

Quinn and Tebow get along great. Orton doesn't talk to either very much. Quinn will actually help out Tebow and give pointers but not Orton....the me me me guy.

[claymore]

He is better then Tebow in practice and he has way less experience and actually playing time and coaching. Gotcha.
He is a better QB period. I think that, Fox thinks that, Elway think that, the players think that etc... etc...


I agree...I had hoped he would be further along by now than he is and that he would have just beaten Orton outright...

I think there are still some outlying things that factored into him not winning the starting gig, such as the lockout, but I still expected him to go into camp and win that job.

He did not get it done as far as the coaches were concerned, but I still think he'll pan out and become a good starting QB eventually.Hopefully you are right. I wanted to see alot more progress at this point though.

Not many great QB's couldnt have beat out Orton/Quin in their 2nd year though. IMO

[NightTerror218]

i would like to know what these people that are pro Tebow's are actually trying to argue here? Are they saying coach Fox and john Elway are wrong?

They tried to trade Orton because they wanted to go with Tebow, and when that fell through, they realized TT was closer to being beat out by Brady Quinn than he was at beating out Kyle Orton.

People are arguing that you cant evaluate Tebow off 3 games he played well and that he needs more time on the field to properly evaluate him. Preseason he played against backups and hopefuls.

I am saying is that Tebow did not get the work done to improve like he should have because of lack of work with coaches as the #1 factor and his do it himself work out over the summer. He was not properly coaches last season and not given the reps to improve any mechanics.

I think FO realized that Tebow could use more work before starting and they with proper coaching he could be ready. His pocket presence was much better from Preseason game 1 to 4. THat was a big improvement in my book, he did not try to run 1st and pass 2nd.

[NightTerror218]

He is a better QB period. I think that, Fox thinks that, Elway think that, the players think that etc... etc...

Hopefully you are right. I wanted to see alot more progress at this point though.

Not many great QB's couldnt have beat out Orton/Quin in their 2nd year though. IMO

If Orton is that much better, why no contract extension? Why did they even try to trade him in the 1st place? Why did they not name him the starter earlier? Why are they not 100% sold on him?

[claymore]

I really think that the FO named them as co # 2's to temper fan enthusiasm for Tebow.

They don't think Tebow is ready to handle the starting gig yet and they don't want the fan pressure of starting Tebow too soon when Orton inevitably plays like Orton.

They really did a good job of tempering the fan's expectations of Tebow this offseason (as evidenced by recent fan polls), in spite of the fact that Tebow looked very capable during the preseason games. Quite remarkable what they were able to accomplish there, really....

Fact of the matter is, Tebow by far outperformed Quinn in preseason action....not even close.Agreed. EFX are doing a bang up job with all that they have inherited.

I didnt get to see the majority of the pre seasons though. I watched the Cardinals PS game though. Quin looked really bad, Tebow was a little better.


Quinn and Tebow get along great. Orton doesn't talk to either very much. Quinn will actually help out Tebow and give pointers but not Orton....the me me me guy.
Meh...

[claymore]

If Orton is that much better, why no contract extension? Why did they even try to trade him in the 1st place? Why did they not name him the starter earlier? Why are they not 100% sold on him?

Because he sucks, and they want a real QB.

[vandammage13]

Agreed. EFX are doing a bang up job with all that they have inherited.

I didnt get to see the majority of the pre seasons though. I watched the Cardinals PS game though. Quin looked really bad, Tebow was a little better.

I would agree that they did a bang up job with what they were trying to accomplish as far as tempering fan enthusiasm for Tebow.....

I just disagree that it was the right move. The flopped Orton trade left them scrambling for damage control and they needed to legitimize the unpopular decision of sticking with Orton as the starter.

What better way to get the fans to buy in than to leak information about how far behind he is. Perception is reality, and even on field performance by Tim in the preseason wasn't going to change that.

It worked, but I just thought it was bush league....

[Nomad]

clay, what happens if Orton gets torn up tonight.......do we just say the BRONCOS are ****** on offense for the year or give it till the bye week?!? I'm hoping for win, fwiw!

[claymore]

I would agree that they did a bang up job with what they were trying to accomplish as far as tempering fan enthusiasm for Tebow.....

I just disagree that it was the right move. The flopped Orton trade left them scrambling for damage control and they needed to legitimize the unpopular decision of sticking with Orton as the starter.

What better way to get the fans to buy in than to leak information about how far behind he is. Perception is reality, and even on field performance by Tim in the preseason wasn't going to change that.

It worked, but I just thought it was bush league....

I see your point... But if Tebow was able to suplant Orton as the starter, I believe the trade would have went thru.

I say this because Orton's pride would have made him renegotiate his contract. IMO...

I just cant see our team hiding Tebow behind quin because they were ashamed of a trade that didnt go thru.

[claymore]

clay, what happens if Orton gets torn up tonight.......do we just say the BRONCOS are ****** on offense for the year or give it till the bye week?!? I'm hoping for win, fwiw!

Id rather see Tebow than Quin we all know Quin sucks, andit would give us all some proof one way or the other with Tebow!

[SOCALORADO.]

Quit throwing the HC and FO under bus in your extreme view that has no basis. You put words in their mouth like you talk to them on the phone and know them. They never said anything about what you imply daily. You are just full of shit and dont back shit up with any sort of concrete data/information/websites....squat.

Its not my views. It is the HC and FO views in regards to TT. :welcome:

[Northman]

People are arguing that you cant evaluate Tebow off 3 games he played well and that he needs more time on the field to properly evaluate him. Preseason he played against backups and hopefuls.



Bingo. I thought i made it pretty obvious when i started this thread what it was about. Its not that hard to follow if you actually know how to read.

[claymore]

If Tebow does indeed ever win the starting position he will need 3 years of evaluation. IMO.

[SOCALORADO.]

i would like to know what these people that are pro Tebow's are actually trying to argue here? Are they saying coach Fox and john Elway are wrong?

They tried to trade Orton because they wanted to go with Tebow, and when that fell through, they realized TT was closer to being beat out by Brady Quinn than he was at beating out Kyle Orton.

No, no! Silk! Its a conspiracy!
See, what really is happening is Fox and Elway hate TT.
So they purposely didnt give him any reps cause of money and hate!
Thats whats really goin on! According to other threads at least.
Just keepin it real!

[Northman]

No, no! Silk! Its a conspiracy!
See, what really is happening is Fox and Elway hate TT.
So they purposely didnt give him any reps cause of money and hate!
Thats whats really goin on! According to other threads at least.
Just keepin it real!

No conspiracy. This isnt the Bullgator show.


But it wasnt a real competition either and anyone who believes it was is out of their mind. Its easy to understand why Fox is making the decision to go with Orton, and its easy to understand that Tebow needs more time but this 3 year BS is strictly that. BS.

[claymore]

No conspiracy. This isnt the Bullgator show.


But it wasnt a real competition either and anyone who believes it was is out of their mind. Its easy to understand why Fox is making the decision to go with Orton, and its easy to understand that Tebow needs more time but this 3 year BS is strictly that. BS.

Can you admit that Quin and Tebow had a fair competition for the #2 spot?

[NightTerror218]

Its not my views. It is the HC and FO views in regards to TT. :welcome:

proof?

[Jsteve01]

Quinn and Tebow get along great. Orton doesn't talk to either very much. Quinn will actually help out Tebow and give pointers but not Orton....the me me me guy.

Tebow himself talked about having a good relationship with Orton and learning from him. The problem is that people like Woody Paige have blown this whole rivalry thing waaaaay out of proportion. How in the world is any competitor supposed to respond to questions about losing their job to a guy, he knows he's better than at this point?

[NightTerror218]

Can you admit that Quin and Tebow had a fair competition for the #2 spot?

Sure because they want to work Tebow more from a coaching stand point. To them he is like a rookie, not much game film and no NFL coaching work.

[NightTerror218]

Tebow himself talked about having a good relationship with Orton and learning from him. The problem is that people like Woody Paige have blown this whole rivalry thing waaaaay out of proportion. How in the world is any competitor supposed to respond to questions about losing their job to a guy, he knows he's better than at this point?

You never see Orton/Tebow talking its always Quinn/Tebow/

[Northman]

Can you admit that Quin and Tebow had a fair competition for the #2 spot?

Yea, and neither was better than the other which really is more disturbing from Quinn's viewpoint as he's been in the league longer. But at the same time both guys have had to deal with REALLY CRAPPY BACKUPS. Our depth has got to be the worst in the league.

[SOCALORADO.]

Sure because they want to work Tebow more from a coaching stand point. To them he is like a rookie, not much game film and no NFL coaching work.

What!?!? Not much game film!?!?!? But, but, but, what about those 3 incredible games last year where has was lighting it up according to you!!!
Hurry!!! Stats! We need stats!!!!:lol:

[SOCALORADO.]

proof?

Proof is the invention of the CO-NO.2 QB title!!!
Thats all the "proof" anyone needs! LOL!:lol::lol::lol:

[Northman]

What!?!? Not much game film!?!?!? But, but, but, what about those 3 incredible games last year where has was lighting it up according to you!!!
Hurry!!! Stats! We need stats!!!!:lol:

Perfect example of my original thread topic. So your on the bus that the stats i put up that if those were Andrew Luck's stats here in Denver you would write him off. Gotcha. :coffee::lol:

[SOCALORADO.]

Perfect example of my original thread topic. So your on the bus that the stats i put up that if those were Andrew Luck's stats here in Denver you would write him off. Gotcha. :coffee::lol:

Actually its a perfect example of how stupid pre season stats are. :coffee::lol:

[Northman]

Actually its a perfect example of how stupid pre season stats are. :coffee::lol:


Those werent preseason stats but thanks for playing. ;)

[BigDaddyBronco]

I can't wait until they draft a 1st round QB next year and he gets hurt, Tebow takes over and never gives up the position. :D

[Northman]

It wont matter, Denver wont be drafting a Qb in the first round.

[BigDaddyBronco]

It wont matter, Denver wont be drafting a Qb in the first round.

No, Orton will play well enough to ge a new contract and they will draft another LB in the first round.

[SOCALORADO.]

Those werent preseason stats but thanks for playing. ;)

Yes, they were. Meaningless games against meaningless teams, might as well be.

[SOCALORADO.]

I can't wait until they draft a 1st round QB next year and he gets hurt, Tebow takes over and never gives up the position. :D

How could he take over, he would have to beat out the 2nd string QB 1st, and well, we all see how that worked out. :lol:

[NightTerror218]

What!?!? Not much game film!?!?!? But, but, but, what about those 3 incredible games last year where has was lighting it up according to you!!!
Hurry!!! Stats! We need stats!!!!:lol:

He played well in the 3 games yes, but it is not enough to evaluate him on whether he is a bust or wont be a starter in the NFL as a QB.

Do you never like a single player on the broncos? Or even like them? You should just be a Charger fan.

[NightTerror218]

Proof is the invention of the CO-NO.2 QB title!!!
Thats all the "proof" anyone needs! LOL!:lol::lol::lol:

While the co-qb thing is funny.....it still doesn' prove shit. You are still full of crap with no defense to your opinions besides ridiculing mine.

[slim]

No, Orton will play well enough to ge a new contract and they will draft another LB in the first round.

Well, we know it won't be a DT.

[SOCALORADO.]

He played well in the 3 games yes, but it is not enough to evaluate him on whether he is a bust or wont be a starter in the NFL as a QB.

Do you never like a single player on the broncos? Or even like them? You should just be a Charger fan.

I dont dislike tebow! He just clearly isnt the future at QB, and the HC and FO agree. Thats all. :lol:

[SOCALORADO.]

While the co-qb thing is funny.....it still doesn' prove shit. You are still full of crap with no defense to your opinions besides ridiculing mine.

Yes, it does prove something. TT isnt the No2 QB!:lol:
Which is pathetic. :lol:

[BigDaddyBronco]

How could he take over, he would have to beat out the 2nd string QB 1st, and well, we all see how that worked out. :lol:

Orton and Quinn will be gone. It will be Tebow, the 1st rounder, and someone else. Tebow for the win. :D

[BigDaddyBronco]

Well, we know it won't be a DT.

Exactly.

[slim]

Release the Tebow!

[SOCALORADO.]

Orton and Quinn will be gone. It will be Tebow, the 1st rounder, and someone else. Tebow for the win. :D

Your forgetting about Weber!
So it would be
NO.1 Luck/Barkley
NO.2 Weber
CO-NO.2 Tebow
:lol::lol::lol:

[BigDaddyBronco]

Your forgetting about Weber!
So it would be
NO.1 Luck/Barkley
NO.2 Weber
CO-NO.2 Tebow
:lol::lol::lol:

No, it would be

1. Tebow
2. Weber
3. Barkley on IR.

[Jsteve01]

wow I do know one thing about this argument and that is that there doesn't seem to be much middle ground.

[BigDaddyBronco]

wow I do know one thing about this argument and that is that there doesn't seem to be much middle ground.It's crazy. I don't understand how some people don't think that Tebow or even Orton can get better. Hell look at Lloyd for years, then he makes a step change, and there are lots of people that still have no faith in him.

If we have a chnce to draft a QB next year, great, I still don't know if they will take us to the promissed land.

[Northman]

wow I do know one thing about this argument and that is that there doesn't seem to be much middle ground.


Actually there is for me. Whether or not Tebow succeeds or fails i have no idea. But the point of it all is that 3 games is not enough to make that statement pro or con yet there are a select few who have already written him off.

[Northman]

No, it would be

1. Tebow
2. Weber
3. Barkley on IR.

Barkley is epic fail. He will bust. Hope we steer quite clear away from him.

[Jsteve01]

I agree with both of you guys. It's far too early to write the kid off. He works to hard and has too much athletic ability for me to give him a puncher's chance.

[CoachChaz]

wow I do know one thing about this argument and that is that there doesn't seem to be much middle ground.


Actually there is for me. Whether or not Tebow succeeds or fails i have no idea. But the point of it all is that 3 games is not enough to make that statement pro or con yet there are a select few who have already written him off.

Thats because the media told them so.

[Jsteve01]

For me it's pretty simple. I hope Tebow is the guy long term, but right now it's Orton so I'm behind him 100%.

[Northman]

For me it's pretty simple. I hope Tebow is the guy long term, but right now it's Orton so I'm behind him 100%.

Dont know if im behind him 100%, i have my doubts but he's free to make me a believer. I just want wins and if he can deliver great.

[RebelRocker]

Problem is, Tebow never had a chance to beat them out. Orton is starting because of his experience and Fox BELIEVES he gives us the best chance to win now. Even if Luck was on this squad he would not be starting over Orton. :lol:



Sorry North, but that's a wild exaggeration. You need to set yourself straight if you think you can crap on SoCal's exaggerated, but sometimes valid, statements just because you don't agree with it yet you think you can make statments like this.


Tebow has had PLENTY of chances to be the starter. Where were you when the whole Orton being shopped by the Broncos thing went down? EFX wouldn't have done that if they didn't think Tebow could be the starter.


This started last year with McD. He wanted to start Tebow from the beginning, but from the first day of training camp, he REALIZED that Tebow wasn't close to ready and subsequently, gave Orton that extention.

Fast forward to this year, EFX tries to move Orton in order for Tebow to be the starter. With Orton blocking the trade with Miami and Tebow clearly not being ready AGAIN, we decided to stay with Orton.

Tebow spent this last off-season trying to sell underwear and a book, when he should have been doing what Quinn was doing. He(Tebow) has had all of the resources in the world to help him get better and he hasn't. Now to his credit, he's a good football player. We just don't known if he's going to be a great QB.

First and foremost, Elway is a business man(and a damn good one). He hasn't built his career on ANYTHING based on what other people tell him to do. Now let me ask you this, North.


Why should EFX be indebted to Tebow to give him 3-5 years to even SEE if he can be a solid NFL QB? Not a good or great QB, but even a starting QB? You're basically asking Elway to start a business and asking an inexperienced, overrated applicant in the most IMPORTANT position, to run the business AND make it successful sooner than later. That's just asinine.


Do you give a guy 3-5 seasons to see if he can even develop? Or do you take a guy early next year that you KNOW can operate a pro style offense and has as much, if not more upside than Tebow will ever have as a QB?

This is beyond a no-brainer situation.

[CoachChaz]

Yeah...Barkley sucks





Lol

[I Eat Staples]

So, in otherwords with those stats you would not no?

The stats wouldn't matter to me, the performance would. I'd give a first round pick at least a year, Tebow just never should have been a first round pick. It'd be like trying out a FB at QB and giving him a year to see what he has.

[NightTerror218]

Barkley has not impressed me, Jones would be a better pick up since we will not have a shot at Luck. We are a better then last place team.

SoCal you still have not defended a point with anything besides saying "because EFXs said so" but they never have.

There is more proof that Elway is behind Tebow then not. He has come out and said he is behind Tebow. He has not mentioned anything about listening to any trade offers for Tebow like he would for Orton.

[Northman]

Sorry North, but that's a wild exaggeration. You need to set yourself straight if you think you can crap on SoCal's exaggerated, but sometimes valid, statements just because you don't agree with it yet you think you can make statments like this.

Actually, not exaggerated and makes far more sense. Especially when the HC says Orton gives him the best chance to win now. Experience means EVERYTHING when your trying to win.


Tebow has had PLENTY of chances to be the starter.

I stated this the other day, if you and i were in shark infested waters and i had a shark cage and you didnt who do you think would survive? Yea, i kind of thought so. Working with 2nd and 3rd stringers is a lot different than working with guys who actually know what they are doing on the field. Its a proven fact that both Tebow and Quinn had very little work with the first stringers.


Where were you when the whole Orton being shopped by the Broncos thing went down? EFX wouldn't have done that if they didn't think Tebow could be the starter.

This makes no sense. Your saying the Broncos wouldnt have shopped Orton around if they didnt think Tebow could start? I pretty much know where your going with this but keep in mind Fox and company initially had planned to let Tebow start to get him some experience. They werent thinking playoffs or SB at that time. But once Orton nixed the trade Fox was put in a difficult position with the lockerroom in terms of who they felt could give them the best chance to win. If Tebow had started it had nothing to do with winning ballgames.


This started last year with McD. He wanted to start Tebow from the beginning, but from the first day of training camp, he REALIZED that Tebow wasn't close to ready and subsequently, gave Orton that extention.

I dont remember it that way. In fact in the offseason following 09' McD was quoted in the media saying that Orton was his guy. But if you can provide me with a link where McD actually says he wanted Tebow to start i will change my view on that.


Fast forward to this year, EFX tries to move Orton in order for Tebow to be the starter. With Orton blocking the trade with Miami and Tebow clearly not being ready AGAIN, we decided to stay with Orton.

Because clearly when you say you want to win NOW you need the most experienced/ready player on the field. Tebow isnt ready to "win" now. He needs experience which is what a guy like Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, and Matt Stafford are getting since they came into the league. Of course none of those guys are sitting behind veteran QB's.


Tebow spent this last off-season trying to sell underwear and a book, when he should have been doing what Quinn was doing. He(Tebow) has had all of the resources in the world to help him get better and he hasn't. Now to his credit, he's a good football player. We just don't known if he's going to be a great QB.

Spare me the offseason crying about his book and underwear ads. A lot of players did that in the offseason. But to your last point, damn right we dont know if he will be a good QB. He's only played 3 games which is why i said we need to see more before rushing to judgement.


Why should EFX be indebted to Tebow to give him 3-5 years to even SEE if he can be a solid NFL QB? Not a good or great QB, but even a starting QB? You're basically asking Elway to start a business and asking an inexperienced, overrated applicant in the most IMPORTANT position, to run the business AND make it successful sooner than later. That's just asinine.

Uh, this is TOTALLY infactual. Ive NEVER said give him 3-5 years. I said give him 1 YEAR to start and see what he has. Furthermore, you contradict yourself by saying we dont know if he is going to be a good QB but then call him overrated. You just dont know if he's overrated, we havent seen enuough to judge him yet.


Do you give a guy 3-5 seasons to see if he can even develop? Or do you take a guy early next year that you KNOW can operate a pro style offense and has as much, if not more upside than Tebow will ever have as a QB?


You dont now if it will take him 3-5 years. Your not involved in the Bronco organization to make that claim. Not even Fox or Elway has made that kind of statement. Like Coach says, your reading too much into what Clay and SoCal say and they dont know squat about how long it will take him to learn. :lol:

[Northman]

The stats wouldn't matter to me, the performance would. .

His performance is on par with the best of them based on 3 games. Care to try again?

[NightTerror218]

His performance is on par with the best of them based on 3 games. Care to try again?

oo oo let me try...it was only 3 games.....let me get that crappy response out before someone else does.

[SOCALORADO.]

Thats because the media told them so.

Not the media Chaz, the FO and the HC. Em kay?
Oh, and all the folks who were at the training camp.

Really it comes down to a basic issue.
1.TT has serious troubles running a pro-style offense, under center.
The training and long term development of TT would be long, and he still might not be a good QB even if they did take the time and effort.

2.Or DEN could just draft Luck/Barkley/Jones and know right then and there that they dont have to train this player in basic fundamentals of playing QB.
Clearly the FO like you, can already see that these QBs are pro ready, and they only need to hand them the playbook and say, "learn this, now".
They start day 1.

I will take door #2.
That is all.

[NightTerror218]

Not the media Chaz, the FO and the HC. Em kay?
Oh, and all the folks who were at the training camp.

Really it comes down to a basic issue.
1.TT has serious troubles running a pro-style offense, under center.
The training and long term development of TT would be long, and he still might not be a good QB even if they did take the time and effort.

2.Or DEN could just draft Luck/Barkley/Jones and know right then and there that they dont have to train this player in basic fundamentals of playing QB.
Clearly the FO like you, can already see that these QBs are pro ready, and they only need to hand them the playbook and say, "learn this, now".
They start day 1.

I will take door #2.
That is all.


HC and FO never said that and have never leaned towards that....you lied once again.....next lie?:welcome:


Tebow has serious problems in pro-style? You have a crystal ball? You know it will take long? Sweet send me over the ball...I am hitting up Vegas baby. :beer:

[I Eat Staples]

His performance is on par with the best of them based on 3 games. Care to try again?

I disagree, I don't think he looked good at all.

[Northman]

I disagree, I don't think he looked good at all.


Certainly your opinion. I dont think ive seen any young QB play lights out after just 3 games. Your standards may be just a little high. Even Elway didnt look THAT good in his first games.

[Ravage!!!]

Certainly your opinion. I dont think ive seen any young QB play lights out after just 3 games. Your standards may be just a little high. Even Elway didnt look THAT good in his first games.

Then how is it that we use just three games to brag about him?

I'm not anti-Tebow. But I think its a double standard. We want to brag about how well he did during those three games, but then if someone says that they don't think he looked that good, then it always brings the rebuttal "but it was only three games."

All I'm saying to that.... is that three games don't tell much. Its like people going overboard with the Cam Newton game this week.

[NightTerror218]

Then how is it that we use just three games to brag about him?

I'm not anti-Tebow. But I think its a double standard. We want to brag about how well he did during those three games, but then if someone says that they don't think he looked that good, then it always brings the rebuttal "but it was only three games."

All I'm saying to that.... is that three games don't tell much. Its like people going overboard with the Cam Newton game this week.

Many of us "supporters" are saying he needs to play more the PROPERLY evaluate him. Many write him off just from glimpses of him at practice. I have been saying 3 games is not enough, but he did look good in those games, not polished like Brady. He put up a good amount of points is what matters the most and got a win. I want to see how he can handle multiple games as a starter. He is cant adapt his game this year then we can move on. But to draft a QB and have that new QB lose out to Tebow after he has actually had some work with his coaches and improves would be a waste.

Many people have written Tebow off and have never given him a chance to prove anything. Cam is given his chance right now, and he is a project QB. Tebow got 3 games and did good. He just looks ugly doing it. I dont understand how people write him off so quick? Because he is not Brady out of the shoot? He is not Elway reborn? I dont understand these fans like SoCal. He wont even let Tebow set on field and he claims EFX say more then they do about him. The problem is that he is smart and great work ethic to improve. He could adapt quicker with coaching this year and be ready....nobody knows since he is only been in 3 GAMES!!!!!!!!

[Northman]

Then how is it that we use just three games to brag about him?

Who's bragging? Bullgator and Jags? Come on Rav, no one is "bragging" about his 3 games. Im just merely pointing out that it doesnt tell us what we need to know one way or the other. We need more time with him. I think if anyone is clamoring about him its because they believe he cant do any worse than Orton at this point. But im certainly not bragging about his 3 games but i do think he deserves more time.


I'm not anti-Tebow. But I think its a double standard. We want to brag about how well he did during those three games, but then if someone says that they don't think he looked that good, then it always brings the rebuttal "but it was only three games."

All I'm saying to that.... is that three games don't tell much. Its like people going overboard with the Cam Newton game this week.

Yes, it is a double standard. Especially when people cant stay objective and want to write him off after 3 games. What were they expecting in 3 games? A championship? All ive ever asked is that the guy gets more starts under him before rushing to draft another Qb. Future QB's will always be there.

[claymore]

Many of us "supporters" are saying he needs to play more the PROPERLY evaluate him. Many write him off just from glimpses of him at practice. I have been saying 3 games is not enough, but he did look good in those games, not polished like Brady. He put up a good amount of points is what matters the most and got a win. I want to see how he can handle multiple games as a starter. He is cant adapt his game this year then we can move on. But to draft a QB and have that new QB lose out to Tebow after he has actually had some work with his coaches and improves would be a waste.

Many people have written Tebow off and have never given him a chance to prove anything. Cam is given his chance right now, and he is a project QB. Tebow got 3 games and did good. He just looks ugly doing it. I dont understand how people write him off so quick? Because he is not Brady out of the shoot? He is not Elway reborn? I dont understand these fans like SoCal. He wont even let Tebow set on field and he claims EFX say more then they do about him. The problem is that he is smart and great work ethic to improve. He could adapt quicker with coaching this year and be ready....nobody knows since he is only been in 3 GAMES!!!!!!!!

He isnt the best QB on the team though. How can we evaluate him if he cant beat out any of the QB's on our roster. In fact what more evaluation do you need?

Many people have written Tebow off. Why??? Because Kyle Orton :harf: and Brady Quin :double harf: are better than Tebow.

[TXBRONC]

For many to most here, you stick with him....isn't Cutler the standard of giving QB's their chance to prove themselves! That's why I have a hard time with people not giving Tebow his chance when at the same time giving other QBs all the chances in the world!

I don't have a problem giving Tebow a chance. I just think Denver's actions seem to be pointing to drafting a quarterback.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Lancane]

After tonight, how many doubt this? :lol:

[CrazyHorse]

He isnt the best QB on the team though. How can we evaluate him if he cant beat out any of the QB's on our roster. In fact what more evaluation do you need?

Many people have written Tebow off. Why??? Because Kyle Orton :harf: and Brady Quin :double harf: are better than Tebow.

...in practice. Tebow is able to improvise and can make plays happen when they break down. That's what he brings to the table. You won't see that in practice situations.

[BroncoNut]

No way you make any such decision based off of three starts and these stats. What is going on? Why is this kid underperforming. The answer to your question is that he is not being properly assimilated to the prolevel game. I would be looking at other individuals in the program rather than this qb pick.

[NightTerror218]

Then how is it that we use just three games to brag about him?

I'm not anti-Tebow. But I think its a double standard. We want to brag about how well he did during those three games, but then if someone says that they don't think he looked that good, then it always brings the rebuttal "but it was only three games."

All I'm saying to that.... is that three games don't tell much. Its like people going overboard with the Cam Newton game this week.

And those 3 games, he did not play like the bottom of the barrel QB. He was offense rookie of the week in week 2 and 3. He also had some of the Top 10 plays for each week.

I have said 3 games in not enough to judge him, he did play well in those 3 games. They could be a fluke that he did well, they could not be. But just how well he will consistently play (for good or for bad) can not be determined in 3 games. Those 3 games could be a complete fluke and he may never have those again. Or they may be rookie stats and could only get better as he gets experience and works on becoming a pocket passer. WHO KNOWS?????

[NightTerror218]

He isnt the best QB on the team though. How can we evaluate him if he cant beat out any of the QB's on our roster. In fact what more evaluation do you need?

Many people have written Tebow off. Why??? Because Kyle Orton :harf: and Brady Quin :double harf: are better than Tebow.

No every rookie QB drafted can beat out the incumbent QB. That happens all the time. It is normally the franchise that decides that the youngster needs live reps to progress. Tebow has had just a little more work then a rookie QB drafted this year. He had 3 weeks of reps last season and no off season work with coaches. He is still starting off as like a rookie in this system with the exception of 1 year to study playbook, that changed on him.

[claymore]

No every rookie QB drafted can beat out the incumbent QB. That happens all the time. It is normally the franchise that decides that the youngster needs live reps to progress. Tebow has had just a little more work then a rookie QB drafted this year. He had 3 weeks of reps last season and no off season work with coaches. He is still starting off as like a rookie in this system with the exception of 1 year to study playbook, that changed on him.

Not every rookie QB is lucky enough to have Orton and Quin as the competition. There is one other QB that couldnt beat out Orton and Quin, he is on the practice squad.

[claymore]

...in practice. Tebow is able to improvise and can make plays happen when they break down. That's what he brings to the table. You won't see that in practice situations.

By break down you mean his primary reciever is covered? Thats why he wont start. He wont/cant follow the script. They dont want him to make plays happen when he has wide open receivers.

[NightTerror218]

Not every rookie QB is lucky enough to have Orton and Quin as the competition. There is one other QB that couldnt beat out Orton and Quin, he is on the practice squad.

There are many QBs in the league who couldnt not beat out Orton.....let alone on this team. If FO believed Tebow was not ready, they would not force him on the field. Elway is a fan of not making a QB fan sooner then he is ready, he has stated that before, and mentioned it about himself starting too early and not ready.

But wont it be a win-win for Tebow and the franchise to make him wait till 2nd half of season to start so that he can get more coaching and with him not getting 55% of the starts for season he wont hit his escalator saving the franchise millions?


what a run on sentence there wow

[NightTerror218]

By break down you mean his primary reciever is covered? Thats why he wont start. He wont/cant follow the script. They dont want him to make plays happen when he has wide open receivers.

He did in preseason game 4......next?

[Ravage!!!]

Elway is also a big fan of getting on the field and learning. Elway is a big fan of knowing how to play QB. Elway has also stated that although things were tough, its better to learn while in the line of fire. Stating that in the end, you ahve to see the speed on the field before you can really "learn" it. So he had no problem with taking his lumps early.

Every QB you ever talk to says (and yes, I'm including Rodgers and Rivers) that they learn SOOOOO much more while on the field than they did/do sitting, that its not even comparible. I'm pretty sure Elway knows this as well.

So lets not pretend that the reason they are sitting people is because its to "protect" them. ELway made it very clear, very clear, that this team would put the player on the field that gave the team teh best chance to win.

Someone mentioned yesterday, that its a possibility that the reason we don't see Tebow on the field is so that we protect his value. Its at its highest right now since there hasn't been much to see. The mystery of his play is probably more valuable than after seeing him play. If we end up in a position to draft a high round QB next draft, then Tebow could still have some trade value because of his name, alone. Playing him now, could take that value away.

Don't have a clue if thats real, but it's certainly an interesting theory/thought.

[NightTerror218]

Elway is also a big fan of getting on the field and learning. Elway is a big fan of knowing how to play QB. Elway has also stated that although things were tough, its better to learn while in the line of fire. Stating that in the end, you ahve to see the speed on the field before you can really "learn" it. So he had no problem with taking his lumps early.

Every QB you ever talk to says (and yes, I'm including Rodgers and Rivers) that they learn SOOOOO much more while on the field than they did/do sitting, that its not even comparible. I'm pretty sure Elway knows this as well.

So lets not pretend that the reason they are sitting people is because its to "protect" them. ELway made it very clear, very clear, that this team would put the player on the field that gave the team teh best chance to win.

Someone mentioned yesterday, that its a possibility that the reason we don't see Tebow on the field is so that we protect his value. Its at its highest right now since there hasn't been much to see. The mystery of his play is probably more valuable than after seeing him play. If we end up in a position to draft a high round QB next draft, then Tebow could still have some trade value because of his name, alone. Playing him now, could take that value away.

Don't have a clue if thats real, but it's certainly an interesting theory/thought.

Yah but there is a line between too early and getting in quick to start learning.

[silkamilkamonico]

Yah but there is a line between too early and getting in quick to start learning.

If that's the case, TT better figure it out quickly or he's going to find himself #2 on the depth chart behind some rookie. TT was drafted on the premise that he is a long term project who could learn behind Orton for a couple years while the team had success and then continued that success as Denver's future.

There's no success, Orton is struggling big time, TT is not ready, and this organization looks completely in flux. Denver cannot afford to throw away 2-3 more seasons in hopes that TT eventually "figures it out". They need to start winning and now, and if that doesn't happen this year the TT plan will hopefully be scrapped and someone will be brought it who can hopefully figure it out right away.

Andrew Luck.

:salute:

[claymore]

There are many QBs in the league who couldnt not beat out Orton.....let alone on this team. If FO believed Tebow was not ready, they would not force him on the field. Elway is a fan of not making a QB fan sooner then he is ready, he has stated that before, and mentioned it about himself starting too early and not ready.

But wont it be a win-win for Tebow and the franchise to make him wait till 2nd half of season to start so that he can get more coaching and with him not getting 55% of the starts for season he wont hit his escalator saving the franchise millions?


what a run on sentence there wow

The QB's that cant beat out Orton are 3rd stringers and some 2nd stringers. Or practice squad players...

Its not going to cost Bowlen more than a couple million dollars if Tebow takes 100% of the snaps this year.

Its not about money. Its about Tebow not being the better option.

[claymore]

He did in preseason game 4......next?

Oh the one where the cornerback fell down?

[NightTerror218]

Oh the one where the cornerback fell down?

you mean almost the whole time he was in the game and he did not run right away

[NightTerror218]

The QB's that cant beat out Orton are 3rd stringers and some 2nd stringers. Or practice squad players...

Its not going to cost Bowlen more than a couple million dollars if Tebow takes 100% of the snaps this year.

Its not about money. Its about Tebow not being the better option.

It is a business it is always about money. They cut players for having too big of salaries all the time and resign to smaller contracts. You can tell yourself just because he is a billionaire doesn't mean he will throw millions away. Most billionaires are penny pinchers and that is why they are rich. Actually it could cost him about 25 million if Tebow took 100% of the snaps this year. If he takes 55% of the snaps in his first 3 years he salary gets doubled. If he takes 70% of the snaps in 3rd year it doubles by the original again. So from 11 to 22 then to 33. Not to mention with new cap, it would be better to keep his salary down in order to make room for other players.

[Ravage!!!]

...in practice. Tebow is able to improvise and can make plays happen when they break down. That's what he brings to the table. You won't see that in practice situations.

Of course you would see that in practice. YOu think the only thing teams practice is ideal situations? Do you not know that we play our offense against our defense? Do you think the defensive players are told to simply "allow" the offensive players to run clean routes and not defend the passes thrown? :confused:

Of course you see those things in practice situations.

[jhildebrand]

By break down you mean his primary reciever is covered? Thats why he wont start. He wont/cant follow the script. They dont want him to make plays happen when he has wide open receivers.

The problem is the script doesn't work given the current offensive line and RB's. The play ALWAYS breaks down. That is why the same line and same RB's looked better with Tebow in the 3 games he played last year.

[claymore]

It is a business it is always about money. They cut players for having too big of salaries all the time and resign to smaller contracts. You can tell yourself just because he is a billionaire doesn't mean he will throw millions away. Most billionaires are penny pinchers and that is why they are rich. Actually it could cost him about 25 million if Tebow took 100% of the snaps this year. If he takes 55% of the snaps in his first 3 years he salary gets doubled. If he takes 70% of the snaps in 3rd year it doubles by the original again. So from 11 to 22 then to 33. Not to mention with new cap, it would be better to keep his salary down in order to make room for other players.

Bowlen would make more money If Tebow started than if Orton started. Period.

In order to get to 33 Tebow has to be SB MVP or league MVP, or something ridiculous. And again... Bowlen makes more money.

[jhildebrand]

Oh the one where the cornerback fell down?

i love how you point this stuff out about Tebow than turn a blind eye to it when Orton has the same. Let's talk about Tebow's "almost" INT's and then say nothing when Orton had 2-3 passes on MNF that should have been picks.

Let's talk about the corner falling down when Tebow makes a play but not when the same happens with Orton. That, my friend, is how to lose credibility.

[Npba900]

Barkley has not impressed me, Jones would be a better pick up since we will not have a shot at Luck. We are a better then last place team.

SoCal you still have not defended a point with anything besides saying "because EFXs said so" but they never have.

There is more proof that Elway is behind Tebow then not. He has come out and said he is behind Tebow. He has not mentioned anything about listening to any trade offers for Tebow like he would for Orton.

Elway is a smart business man. He's not going to expose his entire hand. Elway will build up Tebow confidence and not tear him down in the media and rightfully so. Elway likes TEbow and harbors no ill-will towards Tim. Question is does Elway believe Tim is the long term solution with the Broncos.

However, no of us know what Elway is really thinking right now during the season. When the draft rolls around in 2012, everyone will know whether Tebow is the long term solution based upon whether Elway decides to draft a QB with Denvers first selection.

I see the Broncos picking in the top 5 at minimum in 2012 which is good enough to land one of the top QB ready college QB in the draft. Tebow in 2012 will have the chance to beat out the QB's on the roster for the starting job in 2012.

Tebow should look at the 2012 season as an opportunity of a lifetime to show Elway and the rest of the league that he play from behind center with making reads, check downs, foot work, and throwing accurately and consistenly.

Most importantly, Tebow enters into training camp in 2012 executing and passing like gang busters because he has had an entire year-offseason to learn Fox's system. Meanwhile, the number one drafted QB on the roster sits behind Tebow learning for one season.

Tebow plays respectable in 2012 and opens up interest from other teams to trade for him. Remember, opportunity comes in many situations and forms.

[jhildebrand]

It is a business it is always about money. They cut players for having too big of salaries all the time and resign to smaller contracts. You can tell yourself just because he is a billionaire doesn't mean he will throw millions away. Most billionaires are penny pinchers and that is why they are rich. Actually it could cost him about 25 million if Tebow took 100% of the snaps this year. If he takes 55% of the snaps in his first 3 years he salary gets doubled. If he takes 70% of the snaps in 3rd year it doubles by the original again. So from 11 to 22 then to 33. Not to mention with new cap, it would be better to keep his salary down in order to make room for other players.

I don't subscribe to this theory though. Bowlen would not allow the organization to keep Tebow on the bench knowing they traded a 2, 3, and 4 to draft him in the first and pay him almost 9 million thus far to simply have a SUCK FOR LUCK plan.

If that were the case Luck would get roughly $25 million, and like Cam Newton this year, his entire contract would be guaranteed. It doesn't make sense to do that when you haven't bothered to find out if a guy you have now can be successful.

Bowlen isn't doing anything because Bowlen is doing what he has always done. He is being a good owner and sitting back and letting the people he hired to the jobs they were hired to do as they see fit.

[jhildebrand]

Elway likes TEbow and harbors no ill-will towards Tim.

Did you hear Woody on with Sandy Clough last night? It sounds like the opposite.

[Npba900]

Did you hear Woody on with Sandy Clough last night? It sounds like the opposite.

No I did not. What was said exactly?

[NightTerror218]

Elway is a smart business man. He's not going to expose his entire hand. Elway will build up Tebow confidence and not tear him down in the media and rightfully so. Elway likes TEbow and harbors no ill-will towards Tim. Question is does Elway believe Tim is the long term solution with the Broncos.

However, no of us know what Elway is really thinking right now during the season. When the draft rolls around in 2012, everyone will know whether Tebow is the long term solution based upon whether Elway decides to draft a QB with Denvers first selection.

I see the Broncos picking in the top 5 at minimum in 2012 which is good enough to land one of the top QB ready college QB in the draft. Tebow in 2012 will have the chance to beat out the QB's on the roster for the starting job in 2012.

Tebow should look at the 2012 season as an opportunity of a lifetime to show Elway and the rest of the league that he play from behind center with making reads, check downs, foot work, and throwing accurately and consistenly.

Most importantly, Tebow enters into training camp in 2012 executing and passing like gang busters because he has had an entire year-offseason to learn Fox's system. Meanwhile, the number one drafted QB on the roster sits behind Tebow learning for one season.

Tebow plays respectable in 2012 and opens up interest from other teams to trade for him. Remember, opportunity comes in many situations and forms.


That is if they decide to go for a QB which at this point looking at Orton seems possible. But in the business world sometimes you cant miss out on a great opportunity (like in football with a franchise QB) and you cant waste a pick not knowing what you have on the team (not seeing and evaluating how your players play during game time).

In my mind you have to settle one issue in order to make the correct choice down the road. IF you draft a QB and he is #5 pick and your incumbent QB ends up winning starting job and running to the pro bowl (not saying Tebow will). You wasted a top 5 on a bench warmer when you could have gotten an instant impact player. You need to know exactly what you have in ALL of your players before you draft. You cant let rookie, 2nd yr players ride pine and then draft a replacement if you dont know how they will do.

Elway has said he is a better defense drafter then QB. He can tell you who he would not want to line up against or throw against. He also is LEARNING how to be an executive and how to evaluate players.

IF Tebow starts last say 6 games of season and does fairly well, I dont see us drafting a QB in round 1 or 2. Might pick 1 up later though. I see them still trying to fix running game and defense most of all. Since those are the aspects of the game hindering our team the most. OL not giving QB enough time, OL not blocking well to open gaps for RB. RBs not able to actually run well and get yards and break blocks. DT enough said there. Looks like we are a little thin at CB and our course will always look at LB since that is where Fox likes to exceed.

[NightTerror218]

I don't subscribe to this theory though. Bowlen would not allow the organization to keep Tebow on the bench knowing they traded a 2, 3, and 4 to draft him in the first and pay him almost 9 million thus far to simply have a SUCK FOR LUCK plan.

If that were the case Luck would get roughly $25 million, and like Cam Newton this year, his entire contract would be guaranteed. It doesn't make sense to do that when you haven't bothered to find out if a guy you have now can be successful.

Bowlen isn't doing anything because Bowlen is doing what he has always done. He is being a good owner and sitting back and letting the people he hired to the jobs they were hired to do as they see fit.


Not really a theory, but think of it from my point of view if I was in EFX shoes. We can coach up Tebow more and work with him. He can sit behind Orton a little bit longer so we can prepare him a little bit more. He can miss his first escalator which will give us more money to sign FA since we are going to need the help. This way he can get the coaching he needs and we have a little more cap space to spend on FA.

Not to mention if saves Bowlen money which keeps him sleeping in his office.

I dont think they have the suck for luck plan. If they did, I could see them trading lots of players for more picks, to throw into the offer for Luck. They want to see improvement from last year.

[claymore]

No I did not. What was said exactly?

Yeah, I wanan hear that too.

[gobroncsnv]

[QUOTE=DenBronx;1354514]I would only draft Luck in the 1st. He is killing it again this year. 298 yards and 4 TD's today. His mechanics and footwork is NFL ready. No way! What happens in college, stays in college... we're supposed to ignore what a player did in college! Only listen to what Kiper and all say, ignore the players record, championships won, etc, etc, etc.... Just go with what the experts say... I don't know, it's just kinda funny how one players college work matters, and another's doesn't. I'm one of those nutballs who rate leadership and will to win above mechanics. Oh well, that's just me...

[MOtorboat]

Not really a theory, but think of it from my point of view if I was in EFX shoes. We can coach up Tebow more and work with him. He can sit behind Orton a little bit longer so we can prepare him a little bit more. He can miss his first escalator which will give us more money to sign FA since we are going to need the help. This way he can get the coaching he needs and we have a little more cap space to spend on FA.

Not to mention if saves Bowlen money which keeps him sleeping in his office.

I dont think they have the suck for luck plan. If they did, I could see them trading lots of players for more picks, to throw into the offer for Luck. They want to see improvement from last year.

It is a theory, and a conspiracy theory, at that.

If Bowlen wanted to save money he wouldn't have fired McDaniels, he wouldn't have held on to Orton and he wouldn't have signed Dumervil.

Tebow isn't playing because he isn't better. It is that simple.

[claymore]

It is a theory, and a conspiracy theory, at that.

If Bowlen wanted to save money he wouldn't have fired McDaniels, he wouldn't have held on to Orton and he wouldn't have signed Dumervil.

Tebow isn't playing because he isn't better. It is that simple.
Lets be honest too. Its costing Bowlen money by keeping Tebow on the Bench.

Broncos are doing the hard right by...
1. Starting the best player.
2. Benching him so they dont hurt his development.
or
3. They dont think he will can be the future.

The one reason that isnt a considiration in any of this...
1. money.

If Money was a concern, they could have cut Orton, and the 3 million in savings would have paid the "55%" snap bonus.

Then again they would have only done that if they thought he was the best player, and was ready to take the load.

[BroncoStud]

It is a theory, and a conspiracy theory, at that.

If Bowlen wanted to save money he wouldn't have fired McDaniels, he wouldn't have held on to Orton and he wouldn't have signed Dumervil.

Tebow isn't playing because he isn't better. It is that simple.

Decker was a backup until this last week when he played out of necessity. He didn't look too shabby. Sometimes it's just difficult for younger players, who don't know the system as well, to come in and beat out a 7 year pro.

It doesn't mean they aren't as good, it means they aren't as ready.

[BroncoStud]

Lets be honest too. Its costing Bowlen money by keeping Tebow on the Bench.

Broncos are doing the hard right by...
1. Starting the best player.
2. Benching him so they dont hurt his development.
or
3. They dont think he will can be the future.

The one reason that isnt a considiration in any of this...
1. money.

If Money was a concern, they could have cut Orton, and the 3 million in savings would have paid the "55%" snap bonus.

Then again they would have only done that if they thought he was the best player, and was ready to take the load.

Doesn't Tebow have an incentive contract? He makes a LOT more money if he actually plays? Wasn't Orton's $9 MILLION guaranteed thanks to Josh and Xanders?

I think the Broncos are saving money by starting Orton, who was going to get paid regardless. That's why the intent was to trade him, allow him to renegotiate (which he refused to do), and then start Tebow. It made the most sense.

But thanks to McDaniels and the "cap master" Xanders Orton was essentially untradable because of his contract and unwillingness to change it.

[claymore]

Decker was a backup until this last week when he played out of necessity. He didn't look too shabby. Sometimes it's just difficult for younger players, who don't know the system as well, to come in and beat out a 7 year pro.

It doesn't mean they aren't as good, it means they aren't as ready.
Lets see if Decker can keep it up. Thats what seperates 7 year pros and 1 game wonders. Not saying thats what Decker is.

Doesn't Tebow have an incentive contract? He makes a LOT more money if he actually plays? Wasn't Orton's $9 MILLION guaranteed thanks to Josh and Xanders?

I think the Broncos are saving money by starting Orton, who was going to get paid regardless. That's why the intent was to trade him, allow him to renegotiate (which he refused to do), and then start Tebow. It made the most sense.

But thanks to McDaniels and the "cap master" Xanders Orton was essentially untradable because of his contract and unwillingness to change it.
If Tebow took 55% of the snaps, and won SB MVP (33 million dollar rate) this year his maximum salary would be less than 5 million this season. If Orton was released in the offseason it would have saved the Broncos 3 million.

In the worst possible scenario it would have cost Bowlen $240,000-300,000 dollars extra to start Tebow. Thats if he was SB MVP. We all know Bowlen would gladly make that investment.

Lets say Tebow started, and sucked ass, and got 55%(22 million dollar rate) of the snaps, his salary would be 3.2 million. Bowlen would actually save money by releasing Orton.

Why would they keep Orton knowing tebow was better, and it would save them money?

[TXBRONC]

I misread this question.

No, you give them their shot and that's why I gave Jay as an example because the guy has more chances/excuses than anyone I've seen before.

I understand, SOCAL, has an emotional investment in Luck and Barkley perhaps Landry, but those guys won't be BRONCOS....Tebow is and give the man his time to develop under a veteran QB, pass or fail! If Elway feels the way SOCAL does then get rid of him, if he's gonna keep him, then don't give up until you've exhausted yourself trying.

A year ago he was invested in Tebow.

[SOCALORADO.]

Lets see if Decker can keep it up. Thats what seperates 7 year pros and 1 game wonders. Not saying thats what Decker is.

If Tebow took 55% of the snaps, and won SB MVP (33 million dollar rate) this year his maximum salary would be less than 5 million this season. If Orton was released in the offseason it would have saved the Broncos 3 million.

In the worst possible scenario it would have cost Bowlen $240,000-300,000 dollars extra to start Tebow. Thats if he was SB MVP. We all know Bowlen would gladly make that investment.

Lets say Tebow started, and sucked ass, and got 55%(22 million dollar rate) of the snaps, his salary would be 3.2 million. Bowlen would actually save money by releasing Orton.

Why would they keep Orton knowing tebow was better, and it would save them money?

Clay, Open your eyes, man!
Cant you see this conspiracy is part of a plot by Bowlen and Elway to take over the state of Colorado and install Tim Tebow as a defacto-dictator, all the while weilding power from behind the scenes. Jeez! You must be blind!
This is about power Clay, wake up man.

[slim]

Lets see if Decker can keep it up. Thats what seperates 7 year pros and 1 game wonders. Not saying thats what Decker is.

If Tebow took 55% of the snaps, and won SB MVP (33 million dollar rate) this year his maximum salary would be less than 5 million this season. If Orton was released in the offseason it would have saved the Broncos 3 million.

In the worst possible scenario it would have cost Bowlen $240,000-300,000 dollars extra to start Tebow. Thats if he was SB MVP. We all know Bowlen would gladly make that investment.

Lets say Tebow started, and sucked ass, and got 55%(22 million dollar rate) of the snaps, his salary would be 3.2 million. Bowlen would actually save money by releasing Orton.

Why would they keep Orton knowing tebow was better, and it would save them money?

I don't think that is true. It is my understanding that Orton's money was guaranteed.

[SOCALORADO.]

A year ago he was invested in Tebow.

Actually i was "invested" in him until he showed up to camp looking and playing like Danny Weurffel.
Theres no emotional investment in any college QB by me.
Every expert, analyst, pundit and even camp blogger fan have all stated that TT is pure crap and belongs at 3rd string.
And 3, possibly 4 of the top college QBs simply are better prepared, and more equipped to play QB in DEN right now, than all 3 of the current, no talent ass clowns they currently employ.
If you dont like my opinion on this matter, oh well.

[BroncoStud]

I don't think that is true. It is my understanding that Orton's money was guaranteed.

That's what I thought too...

Everything I read before the season was that the Broncos could either trade Orton, release Orton and pay him $9 MILLION to sit at home or sign with a new team, or keep Orton.

I thought the money was 100% guaranteed.

[slim]

Actually i was "invested" in him until he showed up to camp looking and playing like Danny Weurffel.
Theres no emotional investment in any college QB by me.
Every expert, analyst, pundit and even camp blogger fan have all stated that TT is pure crap and belongs at 3rd string. And 3, possibly 4 of the top college QBs simply are better prepared, and more equipped to play QB in DEN right now, than all 3 of the current, no talent ass clowns they currently employ.
If you dont like my opinion on this matter, oh well.

This is not true. In fact, one of the Broncos beat reporters thinks Tebow showed improvement throughout camp. Saying he is "crap" is a bit disingenuous.

[NightTerror218]

Actually i was "invested" in him until he showed up to camp looking and playing like Danny Weurffel.
Theres no emotional investment in any college QB by me.
Every expert, analyst, pundit and even camp blogger fan have all stated that TT is pure crap and belongs at 3rd string.
And 3, possibly 4 of the top college QBs simply are better prepared, and more equipped to play QB in DEN right now, than all 3 of the current, no talent ass clowns they currently employ.
If you dont like my opinion on this matter, oh well.

how about the people standing up for Tebow against all the scrutiny right now? They dont get counted?

[TXBRONC]

Actually i was "invested" in him until he showed up to camp looking and playing like Danny Weurffel.
Theres no emotional investment in any college QB by me.
Every expert, analyst, pundit and even camp blogger fan have all stated that TT is pure crap and belongs at 3rd string.
And 3, possibly 4 of the top college QBs simply are better prepared, and more equipped to play QB in DEN right now, than all 3 of the current, no talent ass clowns they currently employ.
If you dont like my opinion on this matter, oh well.

He struggled last year as well but you didn't seem to mind. Also it's inaccurate to say every expert, analyst, pundit and camp blogger have all stated he is pure crap. Your opinion is what it is. Last year you were over the top supporting him and poking and prodding people and now Tebow is utter garbage? That's inconsistent.

[Northman]

That's what I thought too...

Everything I read before the season was that the Broncos could either trade Orton, release Orton and pay him $9 MILLION to sit at home or sign with a new team, or keep Orton.

I thought the money was 100% guaranteed.


Apparently only 5.5 is guaranteed.


A team source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that Orton's extension is a one-year, $9 million contract, with $5.5 million guaranteed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/news/story?id=5478172

[MOtorboat]

I don't think that is true. It is my understanding that Orton's money was guaranteed.

Past a certain date is my understanding (and we're past that date). My understanding is had they traded or cut him, they would not have owed him some of the money. It was at the end of August, I believe.

[SOCALORADO.]

This is not true. In fact, one of the Broncos beat reporters thinks Tebow showed improvement throughout camp. Saying he is "crap" is a bit disingenuous.

Which beat reporter?
And he showed improvement how? Not being 4th string?
Thats awsome. Good for Tim.

[SOCALORADO.]

He struggled last year as well but you didn't seem to mind. Also it's inaccurate to say every expert, analyst, pundit and camp blogger have all stated he is pure crap. Your opinion is what it is. Last year you were over the top supporting him and poking and prodding people and now Tebow is utter garbage? That's inconsistent.

No, i was unimpressed with him at the end of last season as well.
And yes, during camp it was unanimous:Tebow blew.
Which is why hes 3rd string.
Oh! Wait! CO-SILVER-JuniorVarsity-back-up-to-the-back-up-apprentice-to-the-apprentice-pink-ribbon-awardee-2nd and 2/5thsQB.
I forgot they created a title for him.
My bad.

[BroncoStud]

Which beat reporter?
And he showed improvement how? Not being 4th string?
Thats awsome. Good for Tim.

You're being too critical of Tebow SoCo. He looked good in Preseason, in fact, he looked better than the other QBs all while running for his life. Blaine Gabbert is starting now, Cam Newton as well, do you really think either of those guys would have beaten out Orton in system he knew well? Highly doubtful.

Fox had to start Orton once the trade fell through because he would have lost all credibility with the lockerroom if he didn't. He has to let Orton fail on his own merit. When that happens, he will then be forced to make a change to keep the fanbase.

It's a cycle that has to play out. And when it does Tebow will get his chance. THEN people will have the right to declare whether he sucks or not, but until then we simply don't know. It's a bit early to give up on him, he was never supposed to be ready by now but he played well enough last year to throw his name in the starting hat.

[SOCALORADO.]

You're being too critical of Tebow SoCo. He looked good in Preseason, in fact, he looked better than the other QBs all while running for his life. Blaine Gabbert is starting now, Cam Newton as well, do you really think either of those guys would have beaten out Orton in system he knew well? Highly doubtful.

Fox had to start Orton once the trade fell through because he would have lost all credibility with the lockerroom if he didn't. He has to let Orton fail on his own merit. When that happens, he will then be forced to make a change to keep the fanbase.

It's a cycle that has to play out. And when it does Tebow will get his chance. THEN people will have the right to declare whether he sucks or not, but until then we simply don't know. It's a bit early to give up on him, he was never supposed to be ready by now but he played well enough last year to throw his name in the starting hat.

Thats your opinion.
We just differ.

[claymore]

I don't think that is true. It is my understanding that Orton's money was guaranteed.

Its true. At some point EFX/Bowlen decided Orton was better for this franchise to keep Orton :harf: than start Quin or Tebow this year. Even though that route cost them more money, and it would upset the Tebow fan bois.

[claymore]

Past a certain date is my understanding (and we're past that date). My understanding is had they traded or cut him, they would not have owed him some of the money. It was at the end of August, I believe.

The point is, there was a line in the sand and Bowlen took the safer more expensive route.

[SOCALORADO.]

The point is, there was a line in the sand and Bowlen took the safer more expensive route.

Your a black cloud over the conspiracy theorists, clay.

[claymore]

Your a black cloud over the conspiracy theorists, clay.

My fault. :(

[slim]

Its true. At some point EFX/Bowlen decided Orton was better for this franchise to keep Orton :harf: than start Quin or Tebow this year. Even though that route cost them more money, and it would upset the Tebow fan bois.

Yeah, the midget kind of put me in place.

I hate when that happens.

[NightTerror218]

No, i was unimpressed with him at the end of last season as well.
And yes, during camp it was unanimous:Tebow blew.
Which is why hes 3rd string.
Oh! Wait! CO-SILVER-JuniorVarsity-back-up-to-the-back-up-apprentice-to-the-apprentice-pink-ribbon-awardee-2nd and 2/5thsQB.
I forgot they created a title for him.
My bad.

So if Tebow sucked so bad why not ship him out? Why keep him? You still cant explain this one. And not during camp it was not unanimous that he blew. He just showed he was raw and IMPROVED through training camp.

[claymore]

So if Tebow sucked so bad why not ship him out? Why keep him? You still cant explain this one. And not during camp it was not unanimous that he blew. He just showed he was raw and IMPROVED through training camp.

We kept a one legged WR (DT) on the roster. Why wouldnt we keep a Football throwing FB?

[NightTerror218]

Its true. At some point EFX/Bowlen decided Orton was better for this franchise to keep Orton :harf: than start Quin or Tebow this year. Even though that route cost them more money, and it would upset the Tebow fan bois.

What money? They are not losing more money this way. having Quinn and Tebow on bench saves them from both Qbs hitting escalators and most of Ortons money is guaranteed. Tebow could hit 2 escaltors if he started this year and next. Goes up to 33 mill. Quinn would also increase a lot if he started. So how would cost them more money?

[NightTerror218]

We kept a one legged WR (DT) on the roster. Why wouldnt we keep a Football throwing FB?

:facepalm: :tsk:

Thanks for dancing around my question and not answering it......same as SoCal does. Neither of you can answer simple questions.

[BroncoStud]

The point is, there was a line in the sand and Bowlen took the safer more expensive route.

Clay... What if the Broncos simply didn't want to pay Orton $5.5 MILLION to go sign and play for another team? Or, what if they thought that they would be able to trade him during Preseason as the injuries took place?

I mean, just because Orton was kept doesn't mean they feel confident in his supremacy to the other options. It would be difficult to simply cut a servicable player and pay him $5.5 MILLION when he is the only guy on your roster that REALLY knows the system.

I don't see a "conspiracy" here. Maybe they just didn't want to throw $5.5 MILLION away.

[claymore]

What money? They are not losing more money this way. having Quinn and Tebow on bench saves them from both Qbs hitting escalators and most of Ortons money is guaranteed. Tebow could hit 2 escaltors if he started this year and next. Goes up to 33 mill. Quinn would also increase a lot if he started. So how would cost them more money?

There was a point in time (training camp) where it was decided that Orton was better for the franchise even though it cost more money. 2/3rds of Ortons contract was guarenteed.

Now that the season started, there is no money to save unless they havent paid Tebow his 6 mill, and they cut him.

I think they are done giving up on #1 picks after a year though. Hence the DT one legged WR comment.

[claymore]

Clay... What if the Broncos simply didn't want to pay Orton $5.5 MILLION to go sign and play for another team? Or, what if they thought that they would be able to trade him during Preseason as the injuries took place?

I mean, just because Orton was kept doesn't mean they feel confident in his supremacy to the other options. It would be difficult to simply cut a servicable player and pay him $5.5 MILLION when he is the only guy on your roster that REALLY knows the system.

I don't see a "conspiracy" here. Maybe they just didn't want to throw $5.5 MILLION away.

So Bowlen is so poor he cant afford to pay Tebow an additional 1.62 million dollars, but he would pay 3 million for the 2nd or 3rd round pick an Orton trade would get us?

They didnt cut Orton because he was the best QB. They decided they didnt want to go into the season with Tebow/Quin as the starters.

[claymore]

:facepalm: :tsk:

Thanks for dancing around my question and not answering it......same as SoCal does. Neither of you can answer simple questions.

I think I answered it. If we are willing to keep an oft injured DT, then we would be willing to keep an very raw Tebow.

We gave up 2 #1 picks for those dudes, and paid them millions of dollars. Im sure there is some hope left for the 2.

[NightTerror218]

I think I answered it. If we are willing to keep an oft injured DT, then we would be willing to keep an very raw Tebow.

We gave up 2 #1 picks for those dudes, and paid them millions of dollars. Im sure there is some hope left for the 2.

Exactly, not a single person in the Bronco franchise has written either of them off. But some fans come across that Tebow has been written off. Which is by no means a fact by actions or comments. Tebow not ready to start, that has been show by actions. But besides that he is a bronco QB till the end of his contract.