Broncos' John Elway on lookout for a franchise QB

[TXBRONC]

Broncos' John Elway on lookout for a franchise QB
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 09/10/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 09/10/2011 01:44:31 AM MDT

Q: Any guesses to how the Broncos' three-year plan will unfold? If the plan is to be a contender by Year 3, yet with a great crop of quarterbacks coming out next spring, of whom John Elway must covet a few, even beyond Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley how would that play out? Would a rookie be groomed for 2013? What kind of odds do you give Tim Tebow of being the guy next year? Will they re-sign Kyle Orton if he has a successful season?

A:Tebow is the only quarterback on the current Broncos roster under contract for 2012 so that gives him a little advantage once the offseason begins. If the Broncos intended to keep Orton past this year, they likely would have already started to negotiate with him and indications are they haven't on some kind of extension.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18863244?_requestid=36701

While I've said on numerous occassions that I think Denver will draft a quarterback early next year I disagree with Legwold that the window to offer Orton a contract extension has closed.

[Ravage!!!]

IT hasn't closed, but Denver has showed they aren't reallly interesting or making an effort to sign him to an extension. I think its clear that Orton doesn't sign an extension and will be gone next season. We most probably draft a QB high in the draft, and Tebow actually starts for a year in 2012.

[MileHighCrew]

my guess at this point is all 3 QBs on this team will be gone this year unless this teams wins 10+ games.
I see a Tebow trade, draft a 1st round QB and sign a vet.

[G_Money]

I still don't think we draft a QB high this coming year. If Tebow was playing the whole year and given the opportunity to suck hard, maybe, but I don't expect to see enough of him to tell what kind of growth he has made. I think they finish putting the team back together after the Josh debacle, and give Tebow the reins next year. If he's awful, then you draft a guy. There should be good QB prospects in that draft too.

Tebow will be under contract a couple more years from there, and then you're in a Brees/Rivers or Vick/Shaub situation at that point, you'd hope: keep the one you want, trade the other one. Played out again with Vick/Kolb this year, too.

And if Tebow just doesn't work at all, you have the QB of the future on the roster then after showing all but his most ardent supporters that you gave him his shot and it just didn't work, AND the kid has had time to sit and figure out the league.

It also postpones the clock on this regime: the clock doesn't REALLY start on results until you draft or sign your franchise QB. I think Fox and Elway are gonna want more talent on this team before they start the countdown.

But we'll see.

~G

[CoachChaz]

Im with G on this one

[Ravage!!!]

At the same time, you draft a QB.. Tebow starts in 2012. If he's good, he remains the starter while you still have a good back-up until he develops enough trade value. If Tebow is what we expect and doesn't really show he's a passer, then you have a kid that now has one year watching/learning the NFL instead of starting from scratch.

[claymore]

If we draft a QB this year it is because Tebow hasnt shown the promise the ones who drafted him thought he would.

It is litteraly on Tebow. As of right now he cant even crack 2nd string in his 2nd year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Unless I missed it in the article, it appears this is only speculation on Legwold's part.

[Ravage!!!]

Unless I missed it in the article, it appears this is only speculation on Legwold's part.

Of course.

[MileHighCrew]

the 2nd year of the rookie contract is the money year, it wont be an issue next year. EFX didn't draft Tebow and they are not tied to him. To go further they seperated themselves from Tebow in the media numerous times.

[TXBRONC]

IT hasn't closed, but Denver has showed they aren't reallly interesting or making an effort to sign him to an extension. I think its clear that Orton doesn't sign an extension and will be gone next season. We most probably draft a QB high in the draft, and Tebow actually starts for a year in 2012.

It's the NFL strang things happen all the time. Denver tried to move him a month and half ago but he's still here.

[Ravage!!!]

It's the NFL strang things happen all the time. Denver tried to move him a month and half ago but he's still here.

I don't think they REALLY tried to move him, and, they don't have to try next season. He can leave on his own.

[TXBRONC]

I still don't think we draft a QB high this coming year. If Tebow was playing the whole year and given the opportunity to suck hard, maybe, but I don't expect to see enough of him to tell what kind of growth he has made. I think they finish putting the team back together after the Josh debacle, and give Tebow the reins next year. If he's awful, then you draft a guy. There should be good QB prospects in that draft too.

Tebow will be under contract a couple more years from there, and then you're in a Brees/Rivers or Vick/Shaub situation at that point, you'd hope: keep the one you want, trade the other one. Played out again with Vick/Kolb this year, too.

And if Tebow just doesn't work at all, you have the QB of the future on the roster then after showing all but his most ardent supporters that you gave him his shot and it just didn't work, AND the kid has had time to sit and figure out the league.

It also postpones the clock on this regime: the clock doesn't REALLY start on results until you draft or sign your franchise QB. I think Fox and Elway are gonna want more talent on this team before they start the countdown.

But we'll see.

~G

I agree with you EFX want to put more talent out on the field but if guy they consider to be franchise quarterback is there for taking I don't Elway passing up the opportunity. This year's quarterback class was relatively thin yet EFX still spent time looking at some of the top prospects. At this point next year's class looks much deeper so I can see them taking one if they're in the position to do so.

This is the NFL were talking about and things can change in a heartbeat.

[Northman]

I still don't think we draft a QB high this coming year. If Tebow was playing the whole year and given the opportunity to suck hard, maybe, but I don't expect to see enough of him to tell what kind of growth he has made. I think they finish putting the team back together after the Josh debacle, and give Tebow the reins next year. If he's awful, then you draft a guy. There should be good QB prospects in that draft too.

Tebow will be under contract a couple more years from there, and then you're in a Brees/Rivers or Vick/Shaub situation at that point, you'd hope: keep the one you want, trade the other one. Played out again with Vick/Kolb this year, too.

And if Tebow just doesn't work at all, you have the QB of the future on the roster then after showing all but his most ardent supporters that you gave him his shot and it just didn't work, AND the kid has had time to sit and figure out the league.

It also postpones the clock on this regime: the clock doesn't REALLY start on results until you draft or sign your franchise QB. I think Fox and Elway are gonna want more talent on this team before they start the countdown.

But we'll see.

~G


Good post and i agree. The key line in that post that TX put has this,


yet with a great crop of quarterbacks coming out next spring, of whom John Elway must covet a few, even beyond Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley

which tells me they are looking beyond those guys if they indeed draft another QB next year.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think they REALLY tried to move him, and, they don't have to try next season. He can leave on his own.

Then why put him on the block at all? I think they would have moved him if they got exactly what they wanted for him. I'm sure they realized that if they could get him traded this year he would more than like end up being the starter.

[broncobryce]

I thought it was common knowledge Orton blocked the trade because he couldn't get enough $$$$$/years on the contract. He wants to be paid like a franchise QB and have a long contract like one.
Good luck with that.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I think the fact that Orton is starting this season even though EFX seemed to make up their mind to start Tebow and trade Orton, combined with the fact that neither Orton nor Quinn have a contract after this year makes me believe that we are well on our way to drafting a QB in the first round next year.

I have little doubt that Tebow will get his opportunity if/when we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs or if Orton is injured. They'll use that data along with Tebow's preseason performance to decide whether we're going to mortgage the draft for Luck (which I am already confident they'll at least try to do), or whether they'll draft a later round guy and bring in a vet (or just keep Weber around) to compete with Tebow and flesh out the depth chart.

As a rebuilding franchise in year 2, this upcoming draft will be the most important one for the Broncos since the Shanahan era that brought in TD. EFX must seriously look long at hard at getting their franchise QB in the next draft or committing to Tebow all the way if they want the rebuild to be a success.

I still have a lot of faith that Tebow can be our own Ben Roethlisberger type of QB (without the rape, of course) who isn't necessarily the prettiest passer, he just makes plays. If EFX don't see that, they must act this offseason to correct it.

[G_Money]

I still have a lot of faith that Tebow can be our own Ben Roethlisberger type of QB (without the rape, of course) who isn't necessarily the prettiest passer, he just makes plays. If EFX don't see that, they must act this offseason to correct it.

Which is why I wanted Orton gone - so we could see what Tebow might or might not have to offer for the whole season. If he showed no promise, then our record should suck enough for us to go get a good one. Problem solved.

But so far I don't see anything different in our handling of the QB situation than when Josh was here. Okay, yes, Josh was worse:

"I don't like that QB for my team, I want a different one."

"I got a different one, but I don't have faith in the different one, so now I'm adding another former #1 pick."

"I don't like either of those, so I'm drafting another first round pick."

"I don't trust my first round pick, so I'm extending one of the other guys who I was so fond of that I drafted a QB in the first round...wait..."

But so far, John basically:

- didn't like Orton enough as a long-term solution that he tried to trade him.

- failed at that, but now has him starting and installed him EARLY in camp with no legit competition for the #1 role.

- still doesn't like him enough to entertain extended contract talks at this time.

- played games with the #2 QB position, and still is, just confusing matters further.

- Is trying to allow Tebow to fail in his limited 2nd and 3rd team reps, but Tebow keeps not-failing in pre-season games and extending this game of chicken.

If we start off the year sucking, that should be a good excuse to start Tebow and give him 6 or whatever games to show whether he's gotten better. If we go the whole year with Orton, or use Quinn as the new starter if Orton gets injured or we lose a lot...that'll be very revelatory, but I don't expect it.

The Broncos are still juggling, keeping Orton and Tebow in the air as long as they can. Maybe that's because neither is in the plan and we're drafting a new plan next year. To me it just looks like the indecision of a new FO.

I'm waiting to see the season first...because I think Tim is likely to get into the last month, six weeks of the season in a serious way, and how he performs may sway the situation.

Tebow in practice doesn't make the choice hard on them at all. He's a sucky practice QB. In games? I would expect him to make the choice to go with a different QB just difficult enough to squeeze their nuts in a vice.

If Elway and co want to go a different direction immediately, then I guess they'd better keep him out of starting games - so good first steps so far.

I'm not counting on them being able to do that all season. From my perspective, more Tebow is better, whether he succeeds or fails. Absent Luck, we could absolutely fail with our next QB draft choice too, so finding out whether this one is a failure first is kinda paramount.

~G

[Lancane]

I think the fact that Orton is starting this season even though EFX seemed to make up their mind to start Tebow and trade Orton, combined with the fact that neither Orton nor Quinn have a contract after this year makes me believe that we are well on our way to drafting a QB in the first round next year.

I have little doubt that Tebow will get his opportunity if/when we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs or if Orton is injured. They'll use that data along with Tebow's preseason performance to decide whether we're going to mortgage the draft for Luck (which I am already confident they'll at least try to do), or whether they'll draft a later round guy and bring in a vet (or just keep Weber around) to compete with Tebow and flesh out the depth chart.

As a rebuilding franchise in year 2, this upcoming draft will be the most important one for the Broncos since the Shanahan era that brought in TD. EFX must seriously look long at hard at getting their franchise QB in the next draft or committing to Tebow all the way if they want the rebuild to be a success.

I still have a lot of faith that Tebow can be our own Ben Roethlisberger type of QB (without the rape, of course) who isn't necessarily the prettiest passer, he just makes plays. If EFX don't see that, they must act this offseason to correct it.

Great Post as usual HP, and I agree. The next draft is vital, they need to commit to the quarterback position, either to Tebow or to someone in the draft - no more half-ass stop-gap answers at the position. And once they commit they need to focus on building the offense around that individual. If Denver has a high enough draft pick and they decide to not go after a top-shelf quarterback then they should trade down, this draft is not that impressive at the top unless they're looking to add possible elite offensive play makers or lineman, and I think that it will be mostly offensive players drafted in the first fifteen picks of the draft next year.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Which is why I wanted Orton gone - so we could see what Tebow might or might not have to offer for the whole season. If he showed no promise, then our record should suck enough for us to go get a good one. Problem solved.


~G

I completely agree and wanted to see what Tebow would do as the starter, but I honestly think that EFX made a conscious decision to start Orton for the good of the locker room. No other reason. It makes no sense to play Orton this year when you look at the future of the franchise, but because they are a new FO and the last coaching staff was so abrasive and shitty, the players probably responded better to Orton (who looks better in practice) and the "hope" that a vet can lead you to the playoffs instead of Tebow and the "we're throwing in the towel this year to develop Tebow and resigning ourselves to losing".

It was more a "piss off the fans to appease the locker room" than it was develop the team for the future. Those tough choices can be made next year. EFX really needed to win the locker room back that McDaniels had lost, and that's what they did, IMO. If they'd started Tebow and we'd have sucked, it would've looked like a give-up. If we start Orton and he sucks, we can bring Tebow in with no expectations.

[Ravage!!!]

It's was a new coaching staff wanting to win NOW. THey don't have the luxury of wasting a season simply to "see" what some guy might do when they can see that they have a better QB on the roster, now.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

It's was a new coaching staff wanting to win NOW. THey don't have the luxury of wasting a season simply to "see" what some guy might do when they can see that they have a better QB on the roster, now.

On the contrary, I think the fanbase would be much more forgiving of EFX it we start Tebow and go 4-12 than if we go 4-12 with Orton, again. Tebow buys them time and excuses because he's young and learning. Orton is an 8 year vet who's out of excuses.

I honestly believe this decision was made for guys like Dawkins and Bailey. Guys who really want to believe that we're trying with all our heart to win now. I really don't think EFX actually expects us to win anything of significance, now. If they start Tebow and he sucks, they have to explain to the locker room why they did it. If they start Orton and he sucks, the only people they have to answer to is the media, and to a lesser extreme, the fans.

The only way we'd possibly know if the decision is the right one is if both guys were able to start every game, which is impossible. I think they would rather take the chance of pissing off the fans than the locker room. I can understand that. If they lose the locker room, they have no chance of winning anything.

[Ravage!!!]

I dont. I think this is a decision based purely on playing the best player available. Fox doesn't have any loyalty to Baily or Dawkins. He has a responsibility and loyalty to the team to (as Elway put it in his interview with Schlereth) "put the best player on the field." Period.

I don't think its to appease anyone in particular. Its showing the team, the players, the fans, and the office that they are going to play the best guy. If it were close, they could justify playing a different QB. But its not even close. This is about (again as Elway put it) "putting the team in the best position to win."

[RebelRocker]

It's looking more and more likely that we'll draft a QB early next year. With that said, what exactly are EFX looking for in a "franchise QB"?

We know they want a good leader who can make crucial throws in the pocket, some mobility, etc etc.

Do they take a guy that's pro ready but has limited upside or do they take a guys that's raw, but with more upside?

The way I see it, our offense is designed to be run heavy and "conservative", for lack of a better term, so it may be an easier offense to start and groom a young QB in(especially if they didn't play in a pro style offense).

In a recent article, Elway stated his 4 most important positions to secure in order to have a championship team.

1.Left tackle- Check. Clady

2.Edge rusher- Double Check. Von and Doom.

3.Cover Corner- Check. Bailey.

4.Quarterback- That remains to be seen.

A lot can happen and probably will happen throughout the course of the season, but at this point, I can't see EFX passing on a QB early next year in the draft.

[BroncoStud]

Signing Orton to an extension would be the most ridiculously pathetic thing this franchise has done since the LAST time they signed him to an extension.

Move on and look for a REAL QB, get rid of these system guys.

[Northman]

On the contrary, I think the fanbase would be much more forgiving of EFX it we start Tebow and go 4-12 than if we go 4-12 with Orton, again. Tebow buys them time and excuses because he's young and learning. Orton is an 8 year vet who's out of excuses.

I honestly believe this decision was made for guys like Dawkins and Bailey. Guys who really want to believe that we're trying with all our heart to win now. I really don't think EFX actually expects us to win anything of significance, now. If they start Tebow and he sucks, they have to explain to the locker room why they did it. If they start Orton and he sucks, the only people they have to answer to is the media, and to a lesser extreme, the fans.

The only way we'd possibly know if the decision is the right one is if both guys were able to start every game, which is impossible. I think they would rather take the chance of pissing off the fans than the locker room. I can understand that. If they lose the locker room, they have no chance of winning anything.

Agree 100%.

The fans would be far more forgiving if Tebow started and we sucked this year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I really do not believe that if there is a point where Orton sucks, that the FO/coaches will leave him in as the starter. Could we see first what he might do/might not do?????

[Northman]

I really do not believe that if there is a point where Orton sucks, that the FO/coaches will leave him in as the starter. Could we see first what he might do/might not do?????

I dont think we would see Tebow unless,

1) We fall behind bigtime like we did against Oakland last year

or

2) We are out of the playoff race.



If Orton stinks in a game but we are still in the game i dont see him putting Tebow just based off that.

[chazoe60]

By the 10th game of the season I think we'll be 2-8 or 3-7 and at that point we'll see Tebow for the rest of tue season. We'll know a lot more by the end of the seasoj that is for sure. But I do feel that we will draft a QB in round 1 of the next draft.

[CoachChaz]

If we draft a QB in round 1, they better strike gold with him and every other player they draft. This team is not in a position to wait around to find a QB to win games. With an ancient secondary, paper mache quality at WR, no DTs and ZERO depth anywhere...they just cant afford to miss on anything.

[Northman]

If we draft a QB in round 1, they better strike gold with him and every other player they draft. This team is not in a position to wait around to find a QB to win games. With an ancient secondary, paper mache quality at WR, no DTs and ZERO depth anywhere...they just cant afford to miss on anything.

I also hope that if they do draft a QB that they give him more than 3 games to evaluate him before trying to discard or trade him.

[claymore]

If we draft a QB in round 1, they better strike gold with him and every other player they draft. This team is not in a position to wait around to find a QB to win games. With an ancient secondary, paper mache quality at WR, no DTs and ZERO depth anywhere...they just cant afford to miss on anything.

QB is as weak as if not weaker than every other position on the team. The best QB we have is universally disliked, and mediocre at best.

I agree that they need to strike gold in the draft. I think they will as long as they dont reach. They need to take the player they like, and not settle for a guy who might work.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

QB is as weak as if not weaker than every other position on the team. The best QB we have is universally disliked, and mediocre at best.

I agree that they need to strike gold in the draft. I think they will as long as they dont reach. They need to take the player they like, and not settle for a guy who might work.

The real question is, in your opinion clay, would you be willing to mortgage our draft and trade 3 or 4 picks for Andrew Luck if he really is as good as advertised? Would you be okay with it if Elway made the decision to do so?

Depending on our draft position, it will probably take this year's 1st, 2nd, 3rd and maybe next year's 1st to do it. Would you be willing to invest that much? I'm kinda torn on the issue. It will make what we gave up for Tebow look like pocket change.

[TXBRONC]

I thought it was common knowledge Orton blocked the trade because he couldn't get enough $$$$$/years on the contract. He wants to be paid like a franchise QB and have a long contract like one.
Good luck with that.

I thought Miami wanted to pay him less?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Broncos, Dolphins and Kyle Orton are sitting at a poker table. Orton is the only one who doesn't appear to be bluffing.

For now, the Dolphins don't seem to be offering much to the Broncos in the way of compensation, knowing they are about the only suitor in the Orton sweepstakes and the Redskins just established the market by accepting two future sixth-round draft picks — a very modest price — for Donovan McNabb​.

The Broncos are insisting they won't give Orton away for so little, even if, when it comes right down to it, they might.

much more - http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_18572814

[Ravage!!!]

Cant miss on any picks, but the QB is the most important one for any team. So its worth it for teams to take more chances at taht position since you get much more return for the investment.

But I think we see Tebow, like Chaz said, by around game 10. Either Orton will be hurt, or things will just have turned bad enough that its time to put him in.

[claymore]

The real question is, in your opinion clay, would you be willing to mortgage our draft and trade 3 or 4 picks for Andrew Luck if he really is as good as advertised? Would you be okay with it if Elway made the decision to do so?

Depending on our draft position, it will probably take this year's 1st, 2nd, 3rd and maybe next year's 1st to do it. Would you be willing to invest that much? I'm kinda torn on the issue. It will make what we gave up for Tebow look like pocket change.

Hell Yes.

In a heart beat.

I think we overpaid for the player we took (Tebow) not the pick we took him with.

I would trade everyone on the roster except Clady, and Von Miller to get Luck/Franchis QB of the future.

[TXBRONC]

much more - http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_18572814

That's what I thought I heard.