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Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 05:56 PM
I am just curious what makes Bronco fans think we are going to turn this around.

I just do not see it. I love this team but am disenchanted right now. I feel that we are headed for a 7-9ish type season for many factors

- Our run defense is pathetic and I dont see much improvement coming
- as much as I like Cutler, he is still very very raw and needs to cut down on the stupid turnover each week. Its time to actually play some "clean" football, no fubmles either
- injuries -- it seems we are getting hit right now. henry, walker, no Rod Smith yet,

-- coaching, Shany seems to have lost his touch a bit. I still like him but he does not have that same feel like he used to when he would Bury opponnets.

Last week we had a ton of Chances early to take complete control of that game and failed miserably. Being Conservative in the Red Zone and settling for FGs killed us and if we want any prayer to win this week. We need tds and at least 28 points IMO

This is a discussion thread. You can disagree but please dont flame me.

Thanks I really appreciate it :salute: From a Bronco fan since 1981

BroncoWave
10-04-2007, 05:57 PM
I agree with you. I really don't see this team finishing any better than 8-8 this season. But the one thing that gives me confidence is that our division is so bad, 8-8 just might be good enough to win it.

Requiem / The Dagda
10-04-2007, 05:59 PM
I've said from the get go that this team is a 10-6 at best, I believe my official prediction was 9-7. Most people are homers, that's why.

TXBRONC
10-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Not to sound trite but its because I'm a fan. I'm realistic I know we have problems but I believe we have good enough players and top notch coaches to get things turned around.

Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 06:01 PM
I've said from the get go that this team is a 10-6 at best, I believe my official prediction was 9-7. Most people are homers, that's why.

I would be in a utter state of shock if this team wins 10 games.

Maybe if every team we play suffers a letdown and does not run the ball at all.

TXBRONC
10-04-2007, 06:04 PM
I've said from the get go that this team is a 10-6 at best, I believe my official prediction was 9-7. Most people are homers, that's why.


It's arrogant statements like this one that cause you problems.

Watchthemiddle
10-04-2007, 06:07 PM
I am just curious what makes Bronco fans think we are going to turn this around.

I just do not see it. I love this team but am disenchanted right now. I feel that we are headed for a 7-9ish type season for many factors

- Our run defense is pathetic and I dont see much improvement coming
- as much as I like Cutler, he is still very very raw and needs to cut down on the stupid turnover each week. Its time to actually play some "clean" football, no fubmles either
- injuries -- it seems we are getting hit right now. henry, walker, no Rod Smith yet,

-- coaching, Shany seems to have lost his touch a bit. I still like him but he does not have that same feel like he used to when he would Bury opponnets.

Last week we had a ton of Chances early to take complete control of that game and failed miserably. Being Conservative in the Red Zone and settling for FGs killed us and if we want any prayer to win this week. We need tds and at least 28 points IMO

This is a discussion thread. You can disagree but please dont flame me.

Thanks I really appreciate it :salute: From a Bronco fan since 1981

Bingo!!

I agree on everything you have said.

OUr defense is not good. We are good in one area and thats it. We can play the run and we can't tackle. Thats a big deal in the NFL.

Cutler is good, but inconsistent. He makes one good play and follows it up with a fumbled snap or misses a wide open receiver. 7 straight games with and INT is not acceptable. His play and development takes time. Just because he has a big arm doesn't mean he is going to be ready to take this team to the next level. 4-5 as a starter...it will take time.

Shanahan has been inconsistent as well. He has 3-4 great play calls and then gets conservative in the red zone. It makes me believe he doesn't quite have FULL confidence in his QB to turn him loose. That too will come.

And finally the area you missed is special teams. Pathetic so far to say the least. Getting rid of Hixon is a start. We need to have our backups on the field making plays not our ALL WORLD cornerback. It should not be his job to save kick or punt returns.

SO I agree with you on your post. Sure we might turn it around, but this is a rebuilding year. Thats okay..it will only make us stronger for years to come.

Requiem / The Dagda
10-04-2007, 06:08 PM
It's arrogant statements like this one that cause you problems.

What stating the truth? Most fans are complete homers, that's why they expect their teams to do well each year.

Requiem / The Dagda
10-04-2007, 06:11 PM
I would be in a utter state of shock if this team wins 10 games.

Maybe if every team we play suffers a letdown and does not run the ball at all.

Maybe this is going to be the year where my praying has finally paid off and we'll get a top draft selection. :eyebrows::five: Nah, I never pray for us to do bad, but I think it'd be interesting to have a year when reality actually slaps the fans in the face, including myself. I want to experience a tough year.

Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 06:12 PM
Bingo!!

I agree on everything you have said.

OUr defense is not good. We are good in one area and thats it. We can play the run and we can't tackle. Thats a big deal in the NFL.

Cutler is good, but inconsistent. He makes one good play and follows it up with a fumbled snap or misses a wide open receiver. 7 straight games with and INT is not acceptable. His play and development takes time. Just because he has a big arm doesn't mean he is going to be ready to take this team to the next level. 4-5 as a starter...it will take time.

Shanahan has been inconsistent as well. He has 3-4 great play calls and then gets conservative in the red zone. It makes me believe he doesn't quite have FULL confidence in his QB to turn him loose. That too will come.

And finally the area you missed is special teams. Pathetic so far to say the least. Getting rid of Hixon is a start. We need to have our backups on the field making plays not our ALL WORLD cornerback. It should not be his job to save kick or punt returns.

SO I agree with you on your post. Sure we might turn it around, but this is a rebuilding year. Thats okay..it will only make us stronger for years to come.


Great post WTM :beer:

Jeff George had a big arm, but where did it get him, so the intangibles like what Brady, Manning and quickly now Tony Romo have are huge.

Romo does not have a gun but seems to have a great feel for the game.
As much as I cant stand him, Brady looks awesome this year, especially since he has a motivated Randy Moss and very explosive Wes Welker.
Manning is just Manning. Look at last week with all the injures to Addai and Harrsion. It did not matter, he surgically disected us.

how could I forget the special teams, especially on all kicks that we receive either on a kickoff or punt and saying

"please dont fumble" :laugh:

Also Elam is not what he used to be either, more inconsistent than ever

Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 06:14 PM
Maybe this is going to be the year where my praying has finally paid off and we'll get a top draft selection. :eyebrows::five: Nah, I never pray for us to do bad, but I think it'd be interesting to have a year when reality actually slaps the fans in the face, including myself. I want to experience a tough year.

As long as it gets us someone like Richard Seymour to help the pathetic defensive line, I am all for it.

TXBRONC
10-04-2007, 06:20 PM
What stating the truth? Most fans are complete homers, that's why they expect their teams to do well each year.


First of all, it seems to me that Med is addressing the fans that are here on this board.

Second, its still arrogant blanket statement that I doubt is true.

Third, your statement is still arrogant because you come across like you've cornered the market on being realistic. That is hardly the case.

Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 06:27 PM
First of all, it seems to me that Med is addressing the fans that are here on this board.

Second, its still arrogant blanket statement that I doubt is true.

Third, your statement is still arrogant because you come across like you've cornered the market on being realistic. That is hardly the case.

I am addressing the fans here and trying to get a grasp of what they think?

I am not trying to pick I fight with anyone. I have the pats fans to do that with at home :laugh: jk btw.

I am just frustrated and disappointed and what to hear others opinons and hope they can make me realize that maybe I am being too "pessimistic" mabye, I am not sure but until after this week and then Pitt, If we are 3-3, I will be happy and hope for a playoff run. If we are 2-4, I think we are in deep doo doo

TXBRONC
10-04-2007, 06:41 PM
I am addressing the fans here and trying to get a grasp of what they think?

I am not trying to pick I fight with anyone. I have the pats fans to do that with at home :laugh: jk btw.

I am just frustrated and disappointed and what to hear others opinions and hope they can make me realize that maybe I am being too "pessimistic" maybe, I am not sure but until after this week and then Pitt, If we are 3-3, I will be happy and hope for a playoff run. If we are 2-4, I think we are in deep doo doo

I understand why you feel the way you do. Our defense has let us down big time.

Are you being too "pessimistic"? I don't thinks so, as you said you're frustrated more than anything else. Not knock our good man Jrwiz but I think you'll find his picture next to the word pessimistic in Webster's Dictionary. :laugh: Just kidding JR.

BigBroncLove
10-04-2007, 06:52 PM
Here's what I think being perhaps a more optimistic fan then others. I've been a Bronco fan since around birth, thanks to my father. I've seen a lot of ups and downs, and few times during the downs I used to get pretty damn angry. I'd turn off the games early because I couldn't watch the leads break down into losses anymore. I'd talk poorly about my broncos and not have to much good tosay about the team. Generally I would just be an upset fan with the way things would go.

Around a few years a go I looked around and decided that there will be downs and there will be ups, and I get no satisfaction from constantly berrating a team that first doesnt even hear me gripe, and secondly that I love :hug:. Why make myself a little bit more angry when I can just take the season for a ride, and still cheer my Broncos on. So I try and be optimistic. MAximize the good and look soberly but hopeful about ditching the bad.

As for this team turning it around, I don't think I have any illusions about how the season will play out. I think that the talent at DT will be a huge problem for this team all season long. I think we will likely be soft against the run all season long. However at the same time I am hopeful that what I see isn't everything. I am not a coach, and there is a reason Bates, Shanahan, and the rest of the Bronco coaching staff make a ton of cash and I don't (but they could always decide to start paying me sometime soon :D ). I have to hope that the coaching staff adjusts this team properly to overcome their short comings. We all accept this isn't a superbowl team, but we can still salvage a season IMO. Look at tennesee last year. 8-8 was their final stat but they started 0-5. There is a lot of season left, a lot of talent on this team, and I think the Broncos have a shot at doing something....

After all we are a few notches away from having a top notch offense, and while you won't win every game without a D, if our O gets rolling at a high enough RPM, we can ride that momentum and make a playoff run IMO. After all two games seperate what you beleive will be an 8-8 season, and what I believe could be a 10-6 season (whether we have a good day on those two games or our opponents have a terrible one)

So yeah, there are some glaring weaknesses. Yeah, there are some reasons to be pessimistic about the season, and yeah we might not turn it around, but I gotta hope, I gotta think every week this could be the week we turn it around. Otherwise all the fun is lost from all of Sunday or just Monday night.

Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 06:55 PM
Here's what I think being perhaps a more optimistic fan then others. I've been a Bronco fan since around birth, thanks to my father. I've seen a lot of ups and downs, and few times during the downs I used to get pretty damn angry. I'd turn off the games early because I couldn't watch the leads break down into losses anymore. I'd talk poorly about my broncos and not have to much good tosay about the team. Generally I would just be an upset fan with the way things would go.

Around a few years a go I looked around and decided that there will be downs and there will be ups, and I get no satisfaction from constantly berrating a team that first doesnt even hear me gripe, and secondly that I love :hug:. Why make myself a little bit more angry when I can just take the season for a ride, and still cheer my Broncos on. So I try and be optimistic. MAximize the good and look soberly but hopeful about ditching the bad.

As for this team turning it around, I don't think I have any illusions about how the season will play out. I think that the talent at DT will be a huge problem for this team all season long. I think we will likely be soft against the run all season long. However at the same time I am hopeful that what I see isn't everything. I am not a coach, and there is a reason Bates, Shanahan, and the rest of the Bronco coaching staff make a ton of cash and I don't (but they could always decide to start paying me sometime soon :D ). I have to hope that the coaching staff adjusts this team properly to overcome their short comings. We all accept this isn't a superbowl team, but we can still salvage a season IMO. Look at tennesee last year. 8-8 was their final stat but they started 0-5. There is a lot of season left, a lot of talent on this team, and I think the Broncos have a shot at doing something....

After all we are a few notches away from having a top notch offense, and while you won't win every game without a D, if our O gets rolling at a high enough RPM, we can ride that momentum and make a playoff run IMO. After all two games seperate what you beleive will be an 8-8 season, and what I believe could be a 10-6 season (whether we have a good day on those two games or our opponents have a terrible one)

So yeah, there are some glaring weaknesses. Yeah, there are some reasons to be pessimistic about the season, and yeah we might not turn it around, but I gotta hope, I gotta think every week this could be the week we turn it around. Otherwise all the fun is lost from all of Sunday or just Monday night.

great post but after hearing the Henry possibly being suspended for the year, I am going with 7-9. I am not angry just honest

this team is a mess right now. for people to see otherwise have orange colored glasses on and mine broke last year after the SF game :laugh: jk

need some humor right now

BigBroncLove
10-04-2007, 06:57 PM
great post but after hearing the Henry possibly being suspended for the year, I am going with 7-9. I am not angry just honest

this team is a mess right now. for people to see otherwise have orange colored glasses on and mine broke last year after the SF game :laugh: jk

need some humor right now

What? I'm usually ontop of these things. Henry suspended? talk about pulling a tanya harding on my knee right now..... what's the news on this. I know he had to get past week 4 for his drug violations to be wiped away and was brought in upon this hope, but what did he violate?

EDIT: NM I read the thread.... :sad: Gotta hope this is a false report, but it doesn;t sound good. Looks like Sapp or Bell might get their chance in an RBBC.

Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 06:59 PM
What? I'm usually ontop of these things. Henry suspended? talk about pulling a tanya harding on my knee right now..... what's the news on this. I know he had to get past week 4 for his drug violations to be wiped away and was brought in upon this hope, but what did he violate?

marijuana. he is not suspended yet, but he is in trouble

This sucks

sorry to be so down. I think we are going to get seriously spanked by SD now. Selvin young looks okay but has less than 50 NFL carries. I am not too confident to say the least

BigBroncLove
10-04-2007, 07:17 PM
marijuana. he is not suspended yet, but he is in trouble

This sucks

sorry to be so down. I think we are going to get seriously spanked by SD now. Selvin young looks okay but has less than 50 NFL carries. I am not too confident to say the least

Well, I do like Youngs production thus far in his few carries. What worries me most with Young is injruy, then fumbles, then his ability to carry a full load. Truthfully though if Young gets the call it should be an RBBC without a doubt, using either Sapp or Bell to spell Young. I like Youngs level of play so far, and he seems to run well in the one cut zone blocking the Broncos prize. I am hopefully optimistic, but losing Henry is a big blow. The Broncos seem to be able to fit a lot of so-so personel into their system and get great results, gotta hope the same happens here. One thing is for sure. Henry had speed, but didn;t have enough to break the big break away 70 yard TD's so far this year. While Selvin won't break tackels nearly as well as Henry, he does offer that explosiveness , if he can hang onto the ball. Always optimistic :eek:

TXBRONC
10-04-2007, 07:42 PM
Well, I do like Youngs production thus far in his few carries. What worries me most with Young is injruy, then fumbles, then his ability to carry a full load. Truthfully though if Young gets the call it should be an RBBC without a doubt, using either Sapp or Bell to spell Young. I like Youngs level of play so far, and he seems to run well in the one cut zone blocking the Broncos prize. I am hopefully optimistic, but losing Henry is a big blow. The Broncos seem to be able to fit a lot of so-so personel into their system and get great results, gotta hope the same happens here. One thing is for sure. Henry had speed, but didn;t have enough to break the big break away 70 yard TD's so far this year. While Selvin won't break tackels nearly as well as Henry, he does offer that explosiveness , if he can hang onto the ball. Always optimistic :eek:


Bell's dinged up with a concussion so I don't see where we would have anyone to play fullback. I know we have Paul Smith but he's a Special Teams ace.

Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 07:43 PM
:
Bell's dinged up with a concussion so I don't see where we would have anyone to play fullback. I know we have Paul Smith but he's a Special Teams ace.

we are in big big trouble if we have to count on Paul who:confused:

sorry the pessimism went up tonight

I was not feeling good about this team and now I feel even worse :tsk:

TXBRONC
10-04-2007, 07:45 PM
:

we are in big big trouble if we have to count on Paul who:confused:

sorry the pessimism went up tonight

I was not feeling good about this team and now I feel even worse :tsk:

The way I try look at it is just got try and roll with it.

BigBroncLove
10-04-2007, 07:51 PM
Bell's dinged up with a concussion so I don't see where we would have anyone to play fullback. I know we have Paul Smith but he's a Special Teams ace.

I know, that's why I said a healthy Mike Bell. Regardless of his condition this week (he said he will likely be unavailable to play this week) he will be an important person to have on the roster as the season progresses. Especially incase Young starts making rookie mistakes.

EDIT: actually I said that in the other thread :crazy:, but I knew about Bells injury.

The Dark Knight
10-04-2007, 10:21 PM
I am just curious what makes Bronco fans think we are going to turn this around.

I just do not see it. I love this team but am disenchanted right now. I feel that we are headed for a 7-9ish type season for many factors

- Our run defense is pathetic and I dont see much improvement coming
- as much as I like Cutler, he is still very very raw and needs to cut down on the stupid turnover each week. Its time to actually play some "clean" football, no fubmles either
- injuries -- it seems we are getting hit right now. henry, walker, no Rod Smith yet,

-- coaching, Shany seems to have lost his touch a bit. I still like him but he does not have that same feel like he used to when he would Bury opponnets.

Last week we had a ton of Chances early to take complete control of that game and failed miserably. Being Conservative in the Red Zone and settling for FGs killed us and if we want any prayer to win this week. We need tds and at least 28 points IMO

This is a discussion thread. You can disagree but please dont flame me.

Thanks I really appreciate it :salute: From a Bronco fan since 1981



As you may know, I noticed this "dark cloud" over the Broncos since before the season started.

I could tell by the way they carried themselves, practiced, interviewed and played in pre-season games.

But people still thought I was nuts for saying so.
:ciao:

Hey, I didn't want to be right about this.

It's not like I come and predict this every season.

Tned
10-04-2007, 10:46 PM
Well, prior to the looming Henry one year suspension, I would have answered like:

The reason I am confident, and believed since well before the week one kickoff that the team would struggle in the first half, but start to get it together by mid year are:


The team has a lot of talent at the offensive skill positions. Henry, Graham, Walker, Marshall and Cutler are all great talents, and recently the emergence of Stokely has made that group even deeper.
While the O-line is a major concern once again (much worse with hamilton gone for the year), the Broncos have typically been able to scheme around poor pass protection, and once Cutler, the receivers and Henry get comfortable and get the misdirection plays working again, the offense should be potent.
The defense has quite a bit of talent outside of DT. Solid ends (probably better at pass rushing than run stopping), solid linebacking corp, and excellant secondary, mostly due to the corners.


So, I thought it would take this team a while to gel on defense and offense, but considered it a 'when' issue, not an 'if' issue.

omac
10-04-2007, 10:50 PM
Here's what I think being perhaps a more optimistic fan then others. I've been a Bronco fan since around birth, thanks to my father. I've seen a lot of ups and downs, and few times during the downs I used to get pretty damn angry. I'd turn off the games early because I couldn't watch the leads break down into losses anymore. I'd talk poorly about my broncos and not have to much good tosay about the team. Generally I would just be an upset fan with the way things would go.

Around a few years a go I looked around and decided that there will be downs and there will be ups, and I get no satisfaction from constantly berrating a team that first doesnt even hear me gripe, and secondly that I love :hug:. Why make myself a little bit more angry when I can just take the season for a ride, and still cheer my Broncos on. So I try and be optimistic. MAximize the good and look soberly but hopeful about ditching the bad.

As for this team turning it around, I don't think I have any illusions about how the season will play out. I think that the talent at DT will be a huge problem for this team all season long. I think we will likely be soft against the run all season long. However at the same time I am hopeful that what I see isn't everything. I am not a coach, and there is a reason Bates, Shanahan, and the rest of the Bronco coaching staff make a ton of cash and I don't (but they could always decide to start paying me sometime soon :D ). I have to hope that the coaching staff adjusts this team properly to overcome their short comings. We all accept this isn't a superbowl team, but we can still salvage a season IMO. Look at tennesee last year. 8-8 was their final stat but they started 0-5. There is a lot of season left, a lot of talent on this team, and I think the Broncos have a shot at doing something....

After all we are a few notches away from having a top notch offense, and while you won't win every game without a D, if our O gets rolling at a high enough RPM, we can ride that momentum and make a playoff run IMO. After all two games seperate what you beleive will be an 8-8 season, and what I believe could be a 10-6 season (whether we have a good day on those two games or our opponents have a terrible one)

So yeah, there are some glaring weaknesses. Yeah, there are some reasons to be pessimistic about the season, and yeah we might not turn it around, but I gotta hope, I gotta think every week this could be the week we turn it around. Otherwise all the fun is lost from all of Sunday or just Monday night.

Man, what a GREAT POST!!!!! Even if you didn't know Henry would likely be suspended, it sums up how you enjoy watching and following the Broncos through their ups and downs. My take on the Broncos and sports in general have followed the same progression; I used to get pissed when my teams lost, then later, I just learned to enjoy the ride too, and it's made it more fun. It's also got me to enjoy the sport as a whole more, and enjoy watching other teams too. Again, great post BigBroncLove! :salute:

Medford Bronco
10-04-2007, 11:02 PM
Well, prior to the looming Henry one year suspension, I would have answered like:

The reason I am confident, and believed since well before the week one kickoff that the team would struggle in the first half, but start to get it together by mid year are:


The team has a lot of talent at the offensive skill positions. Henry, Graham, Walker, Marshall and Cutler are all great talents, and recently the emergence of Stokely has made that group even deeper.
While the O-line is a major concern once again (much worse with hamilton gone for the year), the Broncos have typically been able to scheme around poor pass protection, and once Cutler, the receivers and Henry get comfortable and get the misdirection plays working again, the offense should be potent.
The defense has quite a bit of talent outside of DT. Solid ends (probably better at pass rushing than run stopping), solid linebacking corp, and excellant secondary, mostly due to the corners.


So, I thought it would take this team a while to gel on defense and offense, but considered it a 'when' issue, not an 'if' issue.

I agree *before henry fiasco** except on defense.
I do not think we have a whole lot of talent except for Champ Bailey and Bly.

The rest is suspect including an Old Lynch, way past his prime and average safetys, overrated LBs and well I wont say what I think of the d line.

omac
10-04-2007, 11:21 PM
I am just curious what makes Bronco fans think we are going to turn this around.

I just do not see it. I love this team but am disenchanted right now. I feel that we are headed for a 7-9ish type season for many factors

Well, quite a few posters have felt that way before the season started, as they believed there are too many new parts to be able to transition fast enough to be a top team.

There are posters are hopefully optimistic, believing that the coaches and the players will find a way to win, and just allow themselves to be disappointed when they don't.

There are posters who are extremely pessimistic, always looking for problems even when the team wins, trying their best to believe that the team isn't that good, so they don't get disappointed, and are happy to be proven wrong.

Then there are the fans that believe the Broncos are the best team whenever they get a win, and the worst team whenver they get a loss.

Nothing wrong with being any of them. :cheers:


- Our run defense is pathetic and I dont see much improvement coming
Well, as another poster pointed out to me, the season is still young. I don't believe Bates is incompetent. It could be like this the whole year, but I wouldn't be surprised if we got much better.


- as much as I like Cutler, he is still very very raw and needs to cut down on the stupid turnover each week. Its time to actually play some "clean" football, no fubmles either
Here's where we really disagree; I think Cutler's been playing real well. Then again, I'm not expecting him to be a Manning or a Brady just yet. The interception against the Colts was a timing pattern that the QB throws before the receiver gets to the spot. The defender read the play well and beat Marshall to the spot, that's why Marshall was getting an earfull from Shanny on the sidelines. Cutler's been getting pressured a lot, yet he's been playing extremely poised, and avoiding the sacks and turnovers pretty well. He's been passing pretty well, as indicative of the passing yards the Broncos have accumulated this season. He's leaps and bounds better than the first 5 games last season, and is doing better than most QBs in the league would be with this kind of protection. Watch the other teams' quarterbacks and you'll see just how good he's playing.


- injuries -- it seems we are getting hit right now. henry, walker, no Rod Smith yet,
That's unfortunate, but compared to some teams like Houston, we've got it easy. The silver lining here is that we've got good coaches with good systems, so that if Henry is out, we could rely on other rb's to get good yardage. Even though Rod Smith has been out, our wide receiver corps has not suffered on production. Rod would have a hard time beating out Marshall now.


-- coaching, Shany seems to have lost his touch a bit. I still like him but he does not have that same feel like he used to when he would Bury opponnets.
I disaggree here. Shanny does his best to put his team in a possition to win, but in the end, it's all about execution as well as the what the other teams do. There have been a lot of creative playcalling and gameplans this season.

That quarterback option from the endzone with the pitch to Henry to gain 30 yards; calling the TORO no-timout hurry-up fieldgoal; the timeout to freeze the Raider kicker; the 3 tight-end running front against the Colts ... that was amazing to see. The pass to Marshall should've been a good quick pass, set-up by all that running, but Marshall got beat. Shanny's been coaching real well. And in the red zone against the Colts, we scored 2 TDs and 2 FGs ... that's good. Only our rush defense has been bringing down this team.


Last week we had a ton of Chances early to take complete control of that game and failed miserably. Being Conservative in the Red Zone and settling for FGs killed us and if we want any prayer to win this week. We need tds and at least 28 points IMO
Complete control?!?!?!????? No way! We are talking about Peyton Manning and the Indy Colts. They were down against the 3-time Superbowl Champs Patriots 20-3, and they beat them. So no way were we anywhere close to taking complete control of the game. It's easy to second guess in hindsight, but if we went for riskier plays that would turn into turnovers, or 4th downs that would net us 0 points, I could see a lot of fans saying .... why didn't we go for the field goal. I can see that because I saw it on threads in the previous games.

The only reason we need 28 points is that our defense puts our offense in a hole. If our rush defense can be just average or even below average, then we can win against any team. If you think scoring more will overcome problems in the defense, just look back to last season, where the Lions tried to hide their weakness on defense by trying to score more points. Sometimes they succeeded, most times they failed.


This is a discussion thread. You can disagree but please dont flame me.

Thanks I really appreciate it :salute: From a Bronco fan since 1981
No flaming. Very good post ..... it will get a lot of different opposing reactions, and that's excellent. :cheers:

jlarsiii
10-04-2007, 11:39 PM
The reason that I am confident that the Broncos will turn it around. . . .well. . .it's based on the idea that hopefully there will be some improvement from week to week. To this point in time there really hasn't been the kind of improvement that I had hoped to see. It seems like we are repeating some seasons from our recent past. A component of the team will play well one week (like the running game for instance) and then the next week it will be gone. I look for that type of trend to continue until more consistency is gained.

Mainly the reason that I am confident is that I really didn't expect too much out of the team this year. I always start off optimistic, but the sheer number of changes over the offseason really meant that there were some major problems and those hardly ever disappear overnight. Couple that with a starting qb that had only 5 games of experience and what you have is what we see on the field.

My confidence lies in the hope that in the near future our team will be competitive again. I have been a fan long enough to see great seasons and poor ones so I know that this franchise will not stay down for long (at least I hope not). As long as this team shows signs of improvement by the end of the season I will be happy. Heck, that is all I really asked of them before the season began. So there you have it.

Watchthemiddle
10-04-2007, 11:45 PM
:

we are in big big trouble if we have to count on Paul who:confused:

sorry the pessimism went up tonight

I was not feeling good about this team and now I feel even worse :tsk:


Med...don't worry about how you feel. That is how YOU feel. many of us feel the same way and admit it....many feel the same way and want to act like everything is all peaches and cream.

Well its not. It wasn't before we got the news of Henry and its definatly not after we got the news.

I think we can all agree that so far the defense has been SUB PAR on run defense. Well, thats not going to change this season.

I think we can also all agree.....( well those of us without the offense koolaid in our guts ) that our offense hasn't exactly lit up the stage.

We have been told that once Cutler was in he would make this team better. HE would make the offense better. HE would be the missing link..

Well his record is 4-5 as a starter. He has thrown and INT in 7 consecutive games. How is this making anyone better??

Don't give me this stuff......................"welll WTM...he is a rookie, or second year starter...he needs to learn the offense WTM....come on WTM...you can't blame the offensive woes on Cutler...come on WTM......."

Well yes I can. He was supposed to be ready. He was the one who was supposed to turn our team....well atleast the offense around...and he hasn't done that.

When we get into the redzone, does Shanny have confidence in the CUtler to lead the team and call certain plays? I am not sure. You tell me.

:coffee:




I am sure many of you will take shots at me, but also many of you will realize that I tell it like I see it. Don't jump on me for that. And if you do, then I can take it.....:cool:

jlarsiii
10-04-2007, 11:55 PM
Med...don't worry about how you feel. That is how YOU feel. many of us feel the same way and admit it....many feel the same way and want to act like everything is all peaches and cream.

Well its not. It wasn't before we got the news of Henry and its definatly not after we got the news.

I think we can all agree that so far the defense has been SUB PAR on run defense. Well, thats not going to change this season.

I think we can also all agree.....( well those of us without the offense koolaid in our guts ) that our offense hasn't exactly lit up the stage.

We have been told that once Cutler was in he would make this team better. HE would make the offense better. HE would be the missing link..

Well his record is 4-5 as a starter. He has thrown and INT in 7 consecutive games. How is this making anyone better??

Don't give me this stuff......................"welll WTM...he is a rookie, or second year starter...he needs to learn the offense WTM....come on WTM...you can't blame the offensive woes on Cutler...come on WTM......."

Well yes I can. He was supposed to be ready. He was the one who was supposed to turn our team....well atleast the offense around...and he hasn't done that.

When we get into the redzone, does Shanny have confidence in the CUtler to lead the team and call certain plays? I am not sure. You tell me.

:coffee:




I am sure many of you will take shots at me, but also many of you will realize that I tell it like I see it. Don't jump on me for that. And if you do, then I can take it.....:cool:

Who told you that? And why would you believe that about a rookie qb? I know that a lot of fans drink way too much of the koolaid, but no one who is being honest with themselves would think that a rookie qb can come in and be the immediate savior.

For what he is I am pretty happy with Cutler's progress. I expected him to make mistakes, be inconsistent, and win some and lose some for us this season.

You can blame whomever you want for the lack of production, or success, from this offense because they are all to blame for the playcalling, the lack of execution, the dropped passes, the fumbles, the sacks, and the overall ineptitude in the red zone. What you shouldn't do is hang that all on one player. That is just ridiculous.

Tned
10-05-2007, 12:04 AM
Who told you that? And why would you believe that about a rookie qb? I know that a lot of fans drink way too much of the koolaid, but no one who is being honest with themselves would think that a rookie qb can come in and be the immediate savior.

For what he is I am pretty happy with Cutler's progress. I expected him to make mistakes, be inconsistent, and win some and lose some for us this season.

You can blame whomever you want for the lack of production, or success, from this offense because they are all to blame for the playcalling, the lack of execution, the dropped passes, the fumbles, the sacks, and the overall ineptitude in the red zone. What you shouldn't do is hang that all on one player. That is just ridiculous.

FWIW, Cutler isn't a rookie, he is a sophmore or second year player, that has the added bonuses of gettting to start his first five games in his rookie year, which many QBs don't get to do these days. Take Carson Palmer, he said his entire rookie year, and then played as a second year starter and made a nice career for himself. However, sitting out that first year didn't preserve his rookie status in a technical sense, and it didn't keep him a rookie in reality.

These second year starters have gone through two training camps, rather than one. They have played in two preseasons. In some cases, like Cutler, they have see time at starter in an emergency or mop-op duty, or just because it was time for a change.

That doesn't mean we should expect miracles from Cutler because he isn't a rookie, but the fact is that he is NOT a rookie.

Watchthemiddle
10-05-2007, 12:06 AM
Who told you that? And why would you believe that about a rookie qb? I know that a lot of fans drink way too much of the koolaid, but no one who is being honest with themselves would think that a rookie qb can come in and be the immediate savior.

For what he is I am pretty happy with Cutler's progress. I expected him to make mistakes, be inconsistent, and win some and lose some for us this season.

You can blame whomever you want for the lack of production, or success, from this offense because they are all to blame for the playcalling, the lack of execution, the dropped passes, the fumbles, the sacks, and the overall ineptitude in the red zone. What you shouldn't do is hang that all on one player. That is just ridiculous.

:laugh::laugh: You obviously weren't around on the boards last year.


Who has done that? You can not deny the fact that EVERY team starts and ends with the QB. Maybe he is young, but where is the leadership? "I just run what play is called" says CUtler...is he throwing a HOF coach under the bus in his Second season??? If he is the end all be all at Qb for this team, then how come he didn't audible out of a play to make this team better and score inside the 20?


I am not picking on you jlsariii....but there is NO free pass for anyone on this team.....Rookie, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 14th year or not. There wasn't for the Duke, and there isn't for anyone else.

:coffee:

dogfish
10-05-2007, 01:50 AM
i'm NOT confident. . . . hopeful, but not very confident at all-- i predicted 9-7 before the season started, and right now i don't even feel entirely comfortable in that. . . we still have some talent, but guys are going to have to step up big time if we're going to go anywhere. . .



:behindsofa:



oh well-- i watched every game of the griese era, we can't be much more disappointing that that. . .

BigBroncLove
10-05-2007, 02:28 AM
oh well-- i watched every game of the griese era, we can't be much more disappointing that that. . .

Those were not the days..... :sad: TDs career ending injury, Griese leaving McCaffrey open to a monster hit that broke his leg, Sharp leaving for Baltimore, and Griese level of play was terrible. What a let down to have all that happen after the superbowl years.... talk about highs and lows.

frenchfan
10-05-2007, 04:03 AM
Interesting thread Medford !

I'm sure not a football expert, but from what I've seen, here is my comment (if someone is interested :laugh: )

1/ We're not so far to be a good team (we are not ridiculous even with some current bad D and special teams). :ahhhhh:
2/ We're close to be a bad team.

We sure have talent, but we dont really show it all the time. Our D is pathetic... especially against the run... Our "special" teams??? If only we could have better field positions...
Our O can gain yards, but don't score enough...
We miss the "fire"... I mean, look at Colts or Pats... They can lose some players (even important one), but they still manage to adapt and stand up. We don't. Why?

I think we have the material to be a good team, but not this year... This will be a long year for us... I expect a rebound in the final games of the season... The only good news is that AFC West is sucking this year... Chargers have too a lot of talent and didn't show anything this year... I think we have show more things than us... Chiefs and Raiders are may be not as worse as I thought, but they sure aren't top teams!
So, we can reach the playoffs and see if we have a momentum (but I doubt it... Colts & Pats are too good right now... That's said, the season is long...)...

I just watch game after game and see what happens...

I'm a Broncos fan and I always be... I will support my team through good and bad times... I think this year will be difficult, but I still have hopes (about our future)...

:beer: :defense:

keithbishop
10-05-2007, 05:53 AM
I am addressing the fans here and trying to get a grasp of what they think?

I am not trying to pick I fight with anyone. I have the pats fans to do that with at home :laugh: jk btw.

I am just frustrated and disappointed and what to hear others opinons and hope they can make me realize that maybe I am being too "pessimistic" mabye, I am not sure but until after this week and then Pitt, If we are 3-3, I will be happy and hope for a playoff run. If we are 2-4, I think we are in deep doo doo


I wish I could call you pessimistic, but I'm not seeing a pretty end in sight, either. Signs of life on only a few series is scary 4 games into the season. The only positive is the rest of the division isn't the least bit impressive. I hate to think this way, but if Henry is done, so are we. I couldn't have possibly imagined a worse Thursday for my teams. :mad:

Medford Bronco
10-05-2007, 08:29 AM
I wish I could call you pessimistic, but I'm not seeing a pretty end in sight, either. Signs of life on only a few series is scary 4 games into the season. The only positive is the rest of the division isn't the least bit impressive. I hate to think this way, but if Henry is done, so are we. I couldn't have possibly imagined a worse Thursday for my teams. :mad:

well at least your Yanks have another shot.

The Brocnos are in BIG Trouble and I aint buying the Selivin Young Koolaid just yet. Also can he play defense as that it the main reason for our patheticness :tsk:

Nomad
10-05-2007, 08:47 AM
Med, I agree with your post to start the thread. I see the BRONCOS being just as lost as the Chargers. I said the BRONCOS win by 3 but I am not going to be surprised to see the BRONCOS lose this weekend especially with Henry bringing the morale down. Shanahan has quite the task to find answers and keep the BRONCOS from falling apart. Let's hope Jay comes out this weekend with some confidence. I hate being pessimistic because I see my LSU Tigers losing Sat night and the BRONCOS going either way.

TXBRONC
10-05-2007, 10:16 AM
I wish I could call you pessimistic, but I'm not seeing a pretty end in sight, either. Signs of life on only a few series is scary 4 games into the season. The only positive is the rest of the division isn't the least bit impressive. I hate to think this way, but if Henry is done, so are we. I couldn't have possibly imagined a worse Thursday for my teams. :mad:

Runningback wise Keith we may not be. Selvin has looked very good in my opinion albeit limited carries.

jlarsiii
10-05-2007, 11:44 AM
FWIW, Cutler isn't a rookie, he is a sophmore or second year player, that has the added bonuses of gettting to start his first five games in his rookie year, which many QBs don't get to do these days. Take Carson Palmer, he said his entire rookie year, and then played as a second year starter and made a nice career for himself. However, sitting out that first year didn't preserve his rookie status in a technical sense, and it didn't keep him a rookie in reality.

These second year starters have gone through two training camps, rather than one. They have played in two preseasons. In some cases, like Cutler, they have see time at starter in an emergency or mop-op duty, or just because it was time for a change.

That doesn't mean we should expect miracles from Cutler because he isn't a rookie, but the fact is that he is NOT a rookie.

I should have clarified my comment about Cutler. I view him as a rookie in terms of starts. Until he has 16 starts under his belt he is about as green as it gets. Even then I don't really expect much out of Cutler until he has doubled or tripled that number.

I am not defending him in that sense at all. He has gone through exactly what you have stated. However, I would never and will never call preseason play time as quality experience for any player because it just isn't.

jlarsiii
10-05-2007, 11:52 AM
:laugh::laugh: You obviously weren't around on the boards last year.


Who has done that? You can not deny the fact that EVERY team starts and ends with the QB. Maybe he is young, but where is the leadership? "I just run what play is called" says CUtler...is he throwing a HOF coach under the bus in his Second season??? If he is the end all be all at Qb for this team, then how come he didn't audible out of a play to make this team better and score inside the 20?


I am not picking on you jlsariii....but there is NO free pass for anyone on this team.....Rookie, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 14th year or not. There wasn't for the Duke, and there isn't for anyone else.

:coffee:

I have been around on the boards for a very little while really (about a year or so on the other board), but I have been a fan for a very long time and have heard many different types of discussion. I know as well as the next person that the qb gets all of the credit and takes all of the blame. That is nothing new. However, I have never personally liked that idea cause as we all know it takes the whole team to win or lose.

I wasn't giving anyone a free pass. No one is immune from criticism. Likewise, players should not be given criticism that should really be directed at more than just a specific player.

Who knows if they even give Cutler the option of calling an audible. To my recollection I don't really remember him doing so. He really does just run the plays that they call in. Still, he should have been man enough to take the blame. After all, isn't that what mature players do?

Still, I have liked what I have seen out of him. He still has a LOT to learn, and there is no guarantee that he will ever turn out to be what people expect him to be in Denver.

But, if his surrounding cast continues to stink it up (like our run D) or do incredibly stupid things (like T Henry lighting it up) then the blame has to be shared.

keithbishop
10-05-2007, 03:56 PM
Runningback wise Keith we may not be. Selvin has looked very good in my opinion albeit limited carries.

I like what I have seen of him, but will he be better than Tatum Bell? Henry was an upgrade.

Reidman
10-05-2007, 04:17 PM
I don't think it's a matter of thinking they'll turn it around this season but hey, they are my Broncos and I still love watching them, wins and losses, makes no difference.

Med, you seem almost depressed by this team. Cheer up buddy.

TXBRONC
10-05-2007, 05:34 PM
I like what I have seen of him, but will he be better than Tatum Bell? Henry was an upgrade.


That can only be answered by him playing, but from the what we've seen it looks like he runs with alot of power.

Tned
10-05-2007, 05:36 PM
I should have clarified my comment about Cutler. I view him as a rookie in terms of starts. Until he has 16 starts under his belt he is about as green as it gets. Even then I don't really expect much out of Cutler until he has doubled or tripled that number.

I am not defending him in that sense at all. He has gone through exactly what you have stated. However, I would never and will never call preseason play time as quality experience for any player because it just isn't.

I understood, many people are taking that stance, I just believe it is wrong. That is like calling Romo a rookie, even though he is in his fifth year in the NFL. He has only 14 or so starts.

jlarsiii
10-05-2007, 06:54 PM
I understood, many people are taking that stance, I just believe it is wrong. That is like calling Romo a rookie, even though he is in his fifth year in the NFL. He has only 14 or so starts.

Fair enough, I understand your viewpoint on the matter.

I just believe that there is a learning curve once the player is actually out on the field. Even though Romo had spent 3 seasons (or 4 cause I am not sure) in the league he still had to come in and actually take his lumps. He started off hot (and was voted to the PB), but he sure had a crappy second half of the season. The same thing can be said for Phillip Rivers. Even though they had a gaudy record last season his last couple of starts were not quality, and that trend has continued for him at the beginning of this season.

There are always going to be exceptions to the rule, like Carson Palmer when he started his first full season, but for the most part I don't care how long someone prowls the sidelines the majority of qbs are going to go through some type of learning curve once they actually become the starter. From that viewpoint I believe my stance to be quite valid.

Tned
10-05-2007, 07:23 PM
There are always going to be exceptions to the rule, like Carson Palmer when he started his first full season, but for the most part I don't care how long someone prowls the sidelines the majority of qbs are going to go through some type of learning curve once they actually become the starter. From that viewpoint I believe my stance to be quite valid.

I completely agree with the learning curve part of it, just not the 'rookie' part that so many people are using. The mere fact that Cutler won't qualify for offensive rookie of the year ends the debate, but beyond that, you can't compare a true rookie starting (like Big Ben) and someone who had multiple training camps, participated in weekly practices and game plans being put in place each week and so on.

The fact is that in the modern NFL, Cutler is starting his second year with more experience than is usually. Few teams start rookie QBs that they believe are the future from the get go unless they are incredibly desperate or have an injury (see Tenn and Pitt), what Denver did, Cindy and others is much more common. In fact, it was publicized that the plan was to sit Big Ben for the year, until the injury happened that threw him in.

Beyond that. If Cutler is a rookie, what were those five starts last year? College ball? I agree that there is a learning curve once a player actually takes the field (which was last year for Cutler), but a player is only a rookie their first year.

BFI
10-05-2007, 09:09 PM
I would say that, yeah, techinically Cutler is a second year player, but for going into his second year he doesnt have a lot of experience.

I enjoy watching Cutler and Co. play. Cutler makes plays that makes me have flashbacks....throwing the ball across his body half way down the field, stepping up and scrambling to side step the pressure.

As for why I am confident about the Broncos? I always have been, and I always will be. I learned a long time ago to enjoy the season while it is here. I learn to enjoy the good things about this team, and watching the young players develop and play together.

This team has a lot going for it, and if it all works out, the Broncos are going to be great again.

1. We have a great 2nd year QB that is showing flashes of brillance and great leadership on the field.

2. 2nd year WR Brandon Marshall has really emerged, and I love watching him catch the ball and make person after person miss him.

3. I love watching Champ play. He is the most complete football player I have ever seen. The man can cover and tackle.

4. Selvin Young. We know he's going face a lot of pressure soon, but from what I have seen...well, I just know he's been fun to watch.

5. Daniel Graham. He is a great blocker, and his pass catching is improving.

6. Elvis Dumervil and the rookies. Elvis is playing great ball. He has a great motor and managed to smack Petyon around a little last week, which I always like:cool:

And yeah....I know our run defense is horrible, and watching it is painful. But Shanahan is a great coach, and I like to tune in to see what he will do next. He takes risks that most coaches wouldnt dare take. Sometimes they work and sometimes they dont.

But either way, the Broncos are always exciting to watch, and the above reasons are why I will continue to cheer and have confidence in my Broncos for years to come:salute:

dogfish
10-05-2007, 09:16 PM
hey BFI!


:wave:


good post, and good to see you over here!

BFI
10-05-2007, 09:19 PM
hey BFI!


:wave:


good post, and good to see you over here!

hi dog!

Thanks for the warm:welcome:

Figured I'd bring some positive homerism to this board!:ahhhhh:

broncosfanscott
10-05-2007, 09:25 PM
I would say that, yeah, techinically Cutler is a second year player, but for going into his second year he doesnt have a lot of experience.

I enjoy watching Cutler and Co. play. Cutler makes plays that makes me have flashbacks....throwing the ball across his body half way down the field, stepping up and scrambling to side step the pressure.

As for why I am confident about the Broncos? I always have been, and I always will be. I learned a long time ago to enjoy the season while it is here. I learn to enjoy the good things about this team, and watching the young players develop and play together.

This team has a lot going for it, and if it all works out, the Broncos are going to be great again.

1. We have a great 2nd year QB that is showing flashes of brillance and great leadership on the field.

2. 2nd year WR Brandon Marshall has really emerged, and I love watching him catch the ball and make person after person miss him.

3. I love watching Champ play. He is the most complete football player I have ever seen. The man can cover and tackle.

4. Selvin Young. We know he's going face a lot of pressure soon, but from what I have seen...well, I just know he's been fun to watch.

5. Daniel Graham. He is a great blocker, and his pass catching is improving.

6. Elvis Dumervil and the rookies. Elvis is playing great ball. He has a great motor and managed to smack Petyon around a little last week, which I always like:cool:

And yeah....I know our run defense is horrible, and watching it is painful. But Shanahan is a great coach, and I like to tune in to see what he will do next. He takes risks that most coaches wouldnt dare take. Sometimes they work and sometimes they dont.

But either way, the Broncos are always exciting to watch, and the above reasons are why I will continue to cheer and have confidence in my Broncos for years to come:salute:



Good post my friend. :D

dogfish
10-05-2007, 09:26 PM
hi dog!

Thanks for the warm:welcome:

Figured I'd bring some positive homerism to this board!:ahhhhh:


maybe you can cheer med up a little bit. . . .

BFI
10-05-2007, 09:30 PM
maybe you can cheer med up a little bit. . . .

I hope so:D

He's been down in the dumps lately.
(Its cause he's around all those patsie fans all the time) :eek:
;)

And thanks, Scott!:beer:

Tned
10-05-2007, 09:32 PM
I would say that, yeah, techinically Cutler is a second year player, but for going into his second year he doesnt have a lot of experience.

I enjoy watching Cutler and Co. play. Cutler makes plays that makes me have flashbacks....throwing the ball across his body half way down the field, stepping up and scrambling to side step the pressure.

As for why I am confident about the Broncos? I always have been, and I always will be. I learned a long time ago to enjoy the season while it is here. I learn to enjoy the good things about this team, and watching the young players develop and play together.

This team has a lot going for it, and if it all works out, the Broncos are going to be great again.

1. We have a great 2nd year QB that is showing flashes of brillance and great leadership on the field.

2. 2nd year WR Brandon Marshall has really emerged, and I love watching him catch the ball and make person after person miss him.

3. I love watching Champ play. He is the most complete football player I have ever seen. The man can cover and tackle.

4. Selvin Young. We know he's going face a lot of pressure soon, but from what I have seen...well, I just know he's been fun to watch.

5. Daniel Graham. He is a great blocker, and his pass catching is improving.

6. Elvis Dumervil and the rookies. Elvis is playing great ball. He has a great motor and managed to smack Petyon around a little last week, which I always like:cool:

And yeah....I know our run defense is horrible, and watching it is painful. But Shanahan is a great coach, and I like to tune in to see what he will do next. He takes risks that most coaches wouldnt dare take. Sometimes they work and sometimes they dont.

But either way, the Broncos are always exciting to watch, and the above reasons are why I will continue to cheer and have confidence in my Broncos for years to come:salute:

Great points and exactly why I am confident that the Broncos are a team that is only going to get better. This year and down the road. The Henry thing is going to be a real blow, but this team has dealt with running back issues before and still gained the yards.

BFI
10-05-2007, 09:40 PM
Great points and exactly why I am confident that the Broncos are a team that is only going to get better. This year and down the road. The Henry thing is going to be a real blow, but this team has dealt with running back issues before and still gained the yards.

I think they will continue to get the yards. As far as I know, Henry is playing this weekend, but it would not shock me at all to see Young get more carries in anticipation of what will likely happen.

There is a lot of adversity right now with this team. I saw a clip on NFLN with Champ Bailey, and he was talking about the talent on this team, and how they know they have to improve and get better. He's one of those leaders that you are SO glad he is on this team.

The locker room for the Broncos is strong, and they have a lot of confidence in themselves. This team has shown flashes of being brillant this year, it just hasnt been consistant.

I also saw a clip on what the LB are doing in the backfield...also tonight on NFLN. The LB are over-pursuing and not staying in their gaps. THey need to play more disciplined in the run.
I hope that is something that can be coached?

I still wore my Broncos shirt into work today, like I do every Friday. I hope it brings good luck this weekend!:beer:

BigBroncLove
10-05-2007, 09:52 PM
I think they will continue to get the yards. As far as I know, Henry is playing this weekend, but it would not shock me at all to see Young get more carries in anticipation of what will likely happen.

There is a lot of adversity right now with this team. I saw a clip on NFLN with Champ Bailey, and he was talking about the talent on this team, and how they know they have to improve and get better. He's one of those leaders that you are SO glad he is on this team.

The locker room for the Broncos is strong, and they have a lot of confidence in themselves. This team has shown flashes of being brillant this year, it just hasnt been consistant.

I also saw a clip on what the LB are doing in the backfield...also tonight on NFLN. The LB are over-pursuing and not staying in their gaps. THey need to play more disciplined in the run.
I hope that is something that can be coached?

I still wore my Broncos shirt into work today, like I do every Friday. I hope it brings good luck this weekend!:beer:

Glad to know I'm not the only one with Bronco superstitions. glad to see ya here BFI. Great posts.

I do think the over pursuit and lack of gap discipline is a coachable problem. You hear players like Gold and Adams and others get a little more heated every week that passes about people, and they wont name names thankfully, not staying with their gap assignments. Going against LT you have to hope the Broncos will play closer to what the coaching staff expects. Having Lynch back will be a big key, and the fact that SD is far less balanced offense wise compared to the Colts help. Mor chances to stack the box, but it starts with the front seven, and so long as DT's arn't blown off the line or LB's over pursue, I think they might have a chance.

Please though Broncos, for my sanity, tackle on first contact. LT will make us pay otherwise. Here's hoping for a Bronco victory come sunday... :beer:

Uncle Buck
10-05-2007, 10:02 PM
I am just curious what makes Bronco fans think we are going to turn this around.

I just do not see it. I love this team but am disenchanted right now. I feel that we are headed for a 7-9ish type season for many factors

- Our run defense is pathetic and I dont see much improvement coming
- as much as I like Cutler, he is still very very raw and needs to cut down on the stupid turnover each week. Its time to actually play some "clean" football, no fubmles either
- injuries -- it seems we are getting hit right now. henry, walker, no Rod Smith yet,

-- coaching, Shany seems to have lost his touch a bit. I still like him but he does not have that same feel like he used to when he would Bury opponnets.

Last week we had a ton of Chances early to take complete control of that game and failed miserably. Being Conservative in the Red Zone and settling for FGs killed us and if we want any prayer to win this week. We need tds and at least 28 points IMO

This is a discussion thread. You can disagree but please dont flame me.

Thanks I really appreciate it :salute: From a Bronco fan since 1981

Nice thread, Med. Key among the elements to what makes this a good thread is your honest, introspective approach to the question. While you are not being a "homer," you have also shown class in not just trashing the team, out of hand... something that comes easy to many--including myself--in the heat of battle. In short, your more "clinical" approach to the game (and we are what we are) imparts actually a calming effect--while begging more for analysis than just gratuitously trashing the team.

While this season still carries a huge ? mark, I'm hoping to learn more--one way or the other--in the aftermath of this Sunday's meet with SD. Here are my key watching points:

1. If we lose, I want to see why we lost. Right now, the obvious primary reason would lie in our failure to stop the run (read LT). Right now, I won't rest somewhat easy until I see a run defense.

2. A win won't be enough to satisfy me. I want to see something convincing in HOW we win. If Rivers (who is easily rattled) sucks, but their running game puts so many points on the board that we have to answer with our passing game, and it all ends up with a field goal, this is not the kind of a "victory" to build a season upon. This scenario WOULD build greater confidence in Cutler however. How many remember the last game where we put 30+ points on the board?

[As an aside, has anyone noticed that defenses in general are getting better? Formerly blowout teams are winning with lower scores these days, or is it just my imagination? The game evolves, and it always was a copycat game.]

Well, that's just my two-bits' worth, folks. While I'm hoping for a decisive victory over the Bolts, yep, I'll sure settle for just an ugly "W."

And from there forward, it's just wait and see. Game by game, the beat goes on...

Again, good post, Med. :salute:

Escobar
10-05-2007, 10:04 PM
If they beat the chargers, they will be in good shape.

jlarsiii
10-05-2007, 10:07 PM
I completely agree with the learning curve part of it, just not the 'rookie' part that so many people are using. The mere fact that Cutler won't qualify for offensive rookie of the year ends the debate, but beyond that, you can't compare a true rookie starting (like Big Ben) and someone who had multiple training camps, participated in weekly practices and game plans being put in place each week and so on.

The fact is that in the modern NFL, Cutler is starting his second year with more experience than is usually. Few teams start rookie QBs that they believe are the future from the get go unless they are incredibly desperate or have an injury (see Tenn and Pitt), what Denver did, Cindy and others is much more common. In fact, it was publicized that the plan was to sit Big Ben for the year, until the injury happened that threw him in.

Beyond that. If Cutler is a rookie, what were those five starts last year? College ball? I agree that there is a learning curve once a player actually takes the field (which was last year for Cutler), but a player is only a rookie their first year.

Taking all of that into consideration, how do you think he is progressing? Do you like what you see, or not? If not what would you like to see from him for the rest of the year?

Medford Bronco
10-06-2007, 12:06 AM
I hope so:D

He's been down in the dumps lately.
(Its cause he's around all those patsie fans all the time) :eek:
;)

And thanks, Scott!::

Thanks BFI and great you are here :salute:

I am not down in the dumps, just stressed with work and My son
Matthew as some know has autism and things can get really challenging

So when I do get a chance to watch a game, I dont enjoy feeling that we can stop The Temple Owls running game right now

Also the Pats factor never helps.

I was telling one of my co-workers that I think Cleveland would cover and lose by 14 and you would have thought I told him that I put itching powder in his underwear.

Stupd arrogant Pats fans

lex
10-06-2007, 07:54 AM
I am just curious what makes Bronco fans think we are going to turn this around.

I just do not see it. I love this team but am disenchanted right now. I feel that we are headed for a 7-9ish type season for many factors

- Our run defense is pathetic and I dont see much improvement coming
- as much as I like Cutler, he is still very very raw and needs to cut down on the stupid turnover each week. Its time to actually play some "clean" football, no fubmles either
- injuries -- it seems we are getting hit right now. henry, walker, no Rod Smith yet,

-- coaching, Shany seems to have lost his touch a bit. I still like him but he does not have that same feel like he used to when he would Bury opponnets.

Last week we had a ton of Chances early to take complete control of that game and failed miserably. Being Conservative in the Red Zone and settling for FGs killed us and if we want any prayer to win this week. We need tds and at least 28 points IMO

This is a discussion thread. You can disagree but please dont flame me.

Thanks I really appreciate it :salute: From a Bronco fan since 1981

As you mentioned, Cutler is still a little raw so hopefully he will improve and as he does, so too will our offense. And hopefully the offense protects the run defense. I agree with most everything you said though. But to be honest, I wonder how much faith Shanahan has in the offensive line. Pears, Holland, and Myers have all struggled. When you think back to last year, Foster completely whiffing on a block vs SF got Cutler a concussion and additionally got Foster a ticket out of town.

Lonestar
10-06-2007, 02:05 PM
I understand why you feel the way you do. Our defense has let us down big time.

Are you being too "pessimistic"? I don't thinks so, as you said you're frustrated more than anything else. Not knock our good man Jrwiz but I think you'll find his picture next to the word pessimistic in Webster's Dictionary. :laugh: Just kidding JR.

I know that my positions have not always what folks wanted to hear but so far not to wrong other than the last second heroics of the first two games.

While mikey is a different breed coach he is human and really needs to pick up a great GM type. With all of the stink surrounding Thenry one wants to really know what happened to the morality lessons learned over the past 10 years in adopting bad characters like we have.

Sure if Thenry goes down we can get our money back but what is money when you do not have the RB or WR or fill in the blank player we needed.

One would logically think that these clowns KNOW that using drugs is gonna get you in trouble.

If having millions of dollars taken from you is not enough motivation what is?

Let me add on here a bit this team has a alot of talent on it, enough in fact to run the table, but most of it is awfully young and therefore inconsistent.

I wrote this season off as a rebuilding year when they got rid of warren and kennedy. There are many that thought this to be a reloading year. But unless we find a HUGE band aide to affix to the bleeding at DT it will probably get worse than it is now before it gets better.

The games are won and lost at the LOS right now neither side looks particulary strong

pnbronco
10-06-2007, 03:02 PM
Thanks BFI and great you are here :salute:

I am not down in the dumps, just stressed with work and My son
Matthew as some know has autism and things can get really challenging

So when I do get a chance to watch a game, I dont enjoy feeling that we can stop The Temple Owls running game right now

Also the Pats factor never helps.

I was telling one of my co-workers that I think Cleveland would cover and lose by 14 and you would have thought I told him that I put itching powder in his underwear.

Stupd arrogant Pats fans

Hey Med, I totally understand. I have been a Bronco fan since Elway was a rookie but it became really intense when I found out my Mom had breast cancer. I started going up to camp more than my 2 trips for the summer and just getting away from all the chaos. She died the year they won the 2nd Superbowl. George Coghill had lost his mother to cancer also and I had gotten to know him at camp so he was really kind to me during a very painful time in my life. Then Elway retired and we had the 99 season and all that went with that. So I do understand your fustration. In fact yesterday I was thinking of the Travis mess, man this is just too much like real life. So on paper the Broncos looked good, on the field not so good. The D can't seem to tackle, hoping they find a way to fix that. Special teams not good right now, they know it. Offense well can look brillant and then go away with 3 points, so all that is fustrating. Cutler has a lot to learn, so did Elway, the kid has an arm it can make me go wow. So I think it's going to be long season. I don't think their record will be that good, but I really didn't think it would be from the begining. So hang in there, I sorry the Pat fans are dopes and know that you can always escape here with people who are honest and kind. We truely have a way to respectfully disagree and I am so grateful to have found this place...pn

TXBRONC
10-06-2007, 05:11 PM
I know that my positions have not always what folks wanted to hear but so far not to wrong other than the last second heroics of the first two games.

While mikey is a different breed coach he is human and really needs to pick up a great GM type. With all of the stink surrounding Thenry one wants to really know what happened to the morality lessons learned over the past 10 years in adopting bad characters like we have.

Sure if Thenry goes down we can get our money back but what is money when you do not have the RB or WR or fill in the blank player we needed.

One would logically think that these clowns KNOW that using drugs is gonna get you in trouble.

If having millions of dollars taken from you is not enough motivation what is?

Let me add on here a bit this team has a alot of talent on it, enough in fact to run the table, but most of it is awfully young and therefore inconsistent.

I wrote this season off as a rebuilding year when they got rid of warren and kennedy. There are many that thought this to be a reloading year. But unless we find a HUGE band aide to affix to the bleeding at DT it will probably get worse than it is now before it gets better.

The games are won and lost at the LOS right now neither side looks particulary strong

It's never been a matter of you saying what people want to hear, it's that I think you go way overboard with negativity and when things turn out better than what you have expected you still continue the negativity and it seems at you very unwilling to give credit where credit is due.

You haven't too wrong, well also haven't been too either. You'll be right on some and will certainly on somethings just like everyone here.

The issue with character, hit and miss like everything else.

Finally, yes games won and lost in the trenches but to say we are losing the battle on both sides of the ball isn't accurate. The team has had difficulties scoring but as far as moving the ball the stats say something different.

Watchthemiddle
10-06-2007, 05:54 PM
It's never been a matter of you saying what people want to hear, it's that I think you go way overboard with negativity and when things turn out better than what you have expected you still continue the negativity and it seems at you very unwilling to give credit where credit is due.

You haven't too wrong, well also haven't been too either. You'll be right on some and will certainly on somethings just like everyone here.

The issue with character, hit and miss like everything else.

Finally, yes games won and lost in the trenches but to say we are losing the battle on both sides of the ball isn't accurate. The team has had difficulties scoring but as far as moving the ball the stats say something different.

We might be moving the ball up and down the field but the score isn't showing it. Sure our offensive trench has done better the our defensive trench but I think a lot of us want consistency for both.

IMO, that is our downfall this season. The only things that have been consistent is our consistently bad run defense and special teams. Offense hasn't put together a complete game. Sure they have moved the ball between the 20's but get inconsistent in the red zone. It would be nice if tomorrow we can put together a complete game in all 3 areas.

TXBRONC
10-06-2007, 06:04 PM
We might be moving the ball up and down the field but the score isn't showing it. Sure our offensive trench has done better the our defensive trench but I think a lot of us want consistency for both.

IMO, that is our downfall this season. The only things that have been consistent is our consistently bad run defense and special teams. Offense hasn't put together a complete game. Sure they have moved the ball between the 20's but get inconsistent in the red zone. It would be nice if tomorrow we can put together a complete game in all 3 areas.

I think we want consistency but that wasn't issue, at least I don't think it was. Jr said we were losing the battle at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball but that isn't case and I did acknowledge that we've had trouble scoring.

Watchthemiddle
10-06-2007, 06:29 PM
I think we want consistency but that wasn't issue, at least I don't think it was. Jr said we were losing the battle at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball but that isn't case and I did acknowledge that we've had trouble scoring.

And I would say we are losing the battle in the trenches because of inconsistent play. Thats where I am coming from.

Lonestar
10-06-2007, 11:35 PM
I think we want consistency but that wasn't issue, at least I don't think it was. Jr said we were losing the battle at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball but that isn't case and I did acknowledge that we've had trouble scoring.

Trouble scoring IMHO is an understatement.

If we could move the ball inside the red zones as we do between the twenties then our defense just needs to stop them once all game.

Our not so special teams also leave alot to be desired.

Alot of that that movement between the twenties in fact almost all of it last week was with at least two TE's in the game. That trick will only happen once, once someone sees it they can defense it.

TXBRONC
10-06-2007, 11:52 PM
Trouble scoring IMHO is an understatement.

If we could move the ball inside the red zones as we do between the twenties then our defense just needs to stop them once all game.

Our not so special teams also leave alot to be desired.

Alot of that that movement between the twenties in fact almost all of it last week was with at least two TE's in the game. That trick will only happen once, once someone sees it they can defense it.

Really? Use of two tight ends has been around for decades. And no alot of our movement between 20 hasn't been with the two tight end set. Is been multiple which has included the two tight end set but by no means has been the base of the offense the last four weeks. Last week was the first time that we used multiple tight end sets that much.

Lonestar
10-07-2007, 10:22 AM
Really? Use of two tight ends has been around for decades. And no alot of our movement between 20 hasn't been with the two tight end set. Is been multiple which has included the two tight end set but by no means has been the base of the offense the last four weeks. Last week was the first time that we used multiple tight end sets that much.


Yes it has been around forever. But very rarely on first/second down and I can't ever remember them using it outside the redzone with three tight ends and no wideouts.

Perhaps I was not clear about that in my initial post "Alot of that that movement between the twenties in fact almost all of it last week was with at least two TE's in the game. That trick will only happen once, once someone sees it they can defense it."

TXBRONC
10-07-2007, 01:57 PM
Yes it has been around forever. But very rarely on first/second down and I can't ever remember them using it outside the redzone with three tight ends and no wideouts.

Perhaps I was not clear about that in my initial post "Alot of that that movement between the twenties in fact almost all of it last week was with at least two TE's in the game. That trick will only happen once, once someone sees it they can defense it."

It's wasn't "trick" it was obviously a part of the game plan for that particular game.

Honestly Jr Shanahan has been used the two tight end alignment on early down as well as.

Medford Bronco
10-07-2007, 04:14 PM
This is just as planned unfortunatley.

This team is not good. Sorry to burst peoples bubble.

I am not suprised at the outcome so far and would be totally shocked (down 17-0) to see the Broncos win.

I hate feeling this way as I love this team but its going to be a very long year :sad:

Lonestar
10-07-2007, 08:09 PM
This is just as planned unfortunatley.

This team is not good. Sorry to burst peoples bubble.

I am not suprised at the outcome so far and would be totally shocked (down 17-0) to see the Broncos win.

I hate feeling this way as I love this team but its going to be a very long year :sad:


Well unless something extraordinary happens two or three weeks from now this team will be 2-5. While the offense had moments red zone is killing us and the ST other than the fumble played better.

How many times did SAN punt today 3 times but only after being up by 17 or more points.

BTW the rush defense except for two or three runs was better than the pass defense. BLY is a joke as is foxworthless.

This team just might not win again this year unless the bleeding stops on defense.