ESPN biased against you know who.

[Bullgator]

Here is an article that tells it like it is. If you don't agree then you are either ignorant or have an agenda. Only Skip Bayless(who takes the opposite view of everything, that's his schtick) has TTs back.

You cant explain all the negative attention TT gets. i mean do we even know who the 2/3rd string QBs are around the league? Even if TT did suck as bad as ESPN makes him out to be(which obviously hes a beast).. WHO THE **** CARES? alot of sucky players out there... where are their stories?? where is thier month long 20 analyst bash fest?

Why have they made him such a focal point if not to try and ride him into the ground? THEY TRIED TO SAY THE DB SHOULD CUT HIM FFS! First they say he needs time and KO should start then they tried to say BQ was better then they tried to say webber was better then they tried to say he should be cut!!! lol holy shit

and the whole time he just played well... 20/31 310+ yards NO T/O and a TD with a 108 passer rating.. obviously he sucks and should be kicked off the team!

I believe its A) because of his religion and morals and B) because of his hybrid play style that no one wants to see succeed in the NFL. anyways here is the link.

http://thefloridagridiron.com/2011/09/espns-bias-against-tim-tebow/

[I Eat Staples]

I suppose you never gave any serious thought to the idea that maybe most analysts just think he's a bad NFL player? :confused:

[swaiy]

I suppose you never gave any serious thought to the idea that maybe most analysts just think he's a bad NFL player? :confused:

Without getting into what I think of Tebow...

I could list 100's of players that are terrible. I could list all of the back-up QB's in the league that are terrible. The intriguing thing to me at least, is why is the back-up so relevant.

Why does this guy get pieces dedicated to how bad he is? Out of the dozens of players, they could chose to say who is terrible, why him?

This is me being objective as possible. I just think it's odd.

[Dzone]

I believe its A) because of his religion and morals and B) because of his hybrid play style that no one wants to see succeed in the NFL.

LOL..You are joking , right?
:pound: Thats a good one! :pound:

[Lancane]

I believe its A) because of his religion and morals and B) because of his hybrid play style that no one wants to see succeed in the NFL. anyways here is the link.

http://thefloridagridiron.com/2011/09/espns-bias-against-tim-tebow/

A) Religion is an easy target when someone focuses so much on it, I remember Reggie White had several comments made about him during his playing days that made remarks to his beliefs.

B) It's not that people are biased against hybrid players and that they don't want to see them succeed, they just usually fail at the next level far more then often.

[sneakers]

NO MOAR plz!

Enuff Tebo Threads

[SoCalImport]

Without getting into what I think of Tebow...

I could list 100's of players that are terrible. I could list all of the back-up QB's in the league that are terrible. The intriguing thing to me at least, is why is the back-up so relevant.

Why does this guy get pieces dedicated to how bad he is? Out of the dozens of players, they could chose to say who is terrible, why him?

This is me being objective as possible. I just think it's odd.

I gotta believe it's got a lot to with expectation.

TT is arguably the best college football player ever (that's how he's described) and has a seriously dedicated fanbase that has followed him into his NFL career. More of a fan base than any collegiate athlete EVER.

The last three games from last season plus the fact that the coach that drafted him got fired less than 9 months later gave the talkers a ton of fodder for stories and predictions.

Maybe Tebow's overt expression of his religious conviction has a little to do with all the hoopla, but I think it's the first two points more than the third.

[Dzone]

I dont think its cool that they have labeled him "polarizing".

[SoCalImport]

I dont think its cool that they have labeled him "polarizing".

lol.. maybe it's been polarizing that they've labeled him "polarizing". Do you really have to look any farther than these forums to see that he is, somewhat?

[Lancane]

I dont think its cool that they have labeled him "polarizing".

He is polarizing, no one had to label him as such because he simply is!

[Dzone]

I gotta believe it's got a lot to with expectation.

TT is arguably the best college football player ever (that's how he's described) and has a seriously dedicated fanbase that has followed him into his NFL career. More of a fan base than any collegiate athlete EVER.

The last three games from last season plus the fact that the coach that drafted him got fired less than 9 months later gave the talkers a ton of fodder for stories and predictions.

Maybe Tebow's overt expression of his religious conviction has a little to do with all the hoopla, but I think it's the first two points more than the third.
Exactly!!!! There is so much more to it than his religion and style of play. He is charismatic and likeable and came with the title "Greatest college player of all time". Of course his every move is going to scrutinized..

[Dzone]

I just dont think Tebow did anything himself to deserve the adjective "polarizing"...Michael Vick is far more polarizing a figure, and that's because of what he did.

[Nick]

Jimmer Fredette was getting a similar treatment. It is because they are liked so much because of their strong unorthodox ability. Jimmer was a one man offense show that can hit a 30 footer with out a problem.

When Tebow was coming in a little bit as a freshman just to run the ball and throw a couple TD's he was a national name. You add in his championships and overall like ability and looks, Yes his gold ol boy looks. He is news.

If he wasn't drafted as high as he was, it might have been a little lighter.

Funny thing is I am a Kings fan and there are a lot of homers thinking Jimmer is the salvation... and Jimmer seems to have more expectations then people that get drafted a lot higher... Kinda like Tebow.

[dogfish]

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7800/notthisagain.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/notthisagain.jpg/)

[claymore]

Tebows religious convictions is the only reason I like the guy. I think most only care about his NFL abilities.

[UnderArmour]

Tebow will get his shot sometime in the next 3 years. Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo sat for years before getting their shots and Michael Vick sat for a year only to get his 2nd shot because of injury. Matt Schaub, Kurt Warner, and Kevin Kolb have been stuck on the bench too. Hell, even Tom Brady spent time on the bench. Tebow's problem isn't that he can't play. We know that he can play. We know that he can break tackles and extend plays. But Tebow has to realize that if he is the starting QB and he gets hurt, he isn't just hurting himself; he's hurting the entire team.

Before making that type of commitment, we have to be 100% sure we can keep the runs as a last resort or we risk him being subjected to the same type of injuries as Vick and McNabb were. The coaching staff needs to refine his game into one more along the lines of a Roethlisburger, Romo, or the gold standard, Elway type mobility. It's just not worth subjecting him to the rigors of the NFL season when we have someone who can lead us to a winning record and has the team's respect in Kyle Orton when Tebow is part of the team's long term plans. And no, we won't be picking 4th or 8th in the draft this year, we'll be picking more along the lines of 15 or 20. Tebow is our guy, it's just a question of when.

[sneakers]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MIEJTH5X1_g/SwxL7AleLlI/AAAAAAAAAIU/eF-kPmYGbYI/s1600/mp_thread_hijack.jpg


Let's talk about bunnies.....

[sneakers]

http://www.thecuteproject.com/images/items/1038.jpg


awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[UnderArmour]

You're not doing it right... Let's see:

Jay Cutler was a horrible QB and deserved to be traded. Mike Shanahan was one of the worst coaches we have ever had and only won a Super Bowl because of John Elway. Josh McDaniels was a genius who should have been given 5 more years to create his vision for the Denver Broncos. Ex Patriot players such as Le Kevin Smith were not given enough opportunities on defense by Mike Nolan, who was one of the worse defensive coordinators we have ever seen in Bronco history. Josh McDaniels will go down as one of the greatest coaches in Bronco history even though he only had 2 years. Kyle Orton will surpass John Elway. Tim Tebow should be cut. Brandon Marshall is a horrible WR who will never catch more than 70 passes again. Uh... Let's see... Peyton Hillis couldn't even make our practice squad. Alphonso Smith was a great draft pick and Josh McDaniels was smart for trading him to set an example for his team. Richard Quinn was released too early by John Fox, he will become a hall of fame TE. Robert Ayers and Knowshon Moreno are pro bowl caliber players.

Peyton Hillis. Mike Shanahan. Brandon Marshall. Jay Cutler. Josh McDaniels. Tony Scheffler. Alphonso Smith. Richard Quinn. Knowshon Moreno. Robert Ayers. Josh McDaniels. Josh McDaniels. Mike Nolan. Josh McDaniels. Peyton Hillis. Mike Shanahan. Josh McDaniels. Josh McDaniels. Josh McDaniels.

[Thnikkaman]

I heard that when Tebow turned water into wine, he had a bag of wine hidden under his shoulder pads.

[Ravage!!!]

Without getting into what I think of Tebow...

I could list 100's of players that are terrible. I could list all of the back-up QB's in the league that are terrible. The intriguing thing to me at least, is why is the back-up so relevant.

Why does this guy get pieces dedicated to how bad he is? Out of the dozens of players, they could chose to say who is terrible, why him?

This is me being objective as possible. I just think it's odd.

Because when he was in college, and coming out of college, and entered the NFL.... we heard from SOOOO many "BullGators" shoving Tebow down our throats about how good he is..... that people are now pointing out to THEM that he's not going to "change the QB position forever." As we've heard from the Tebow pundants over and over and over and over and over again.

Thats really the reason

[Slick]

if you think he will turn into a good pro qb eventually, what espn says shouldnt matter bullgator.

Tune those guys out. Tim will get a shot some day.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[BroncoNut]

I just dont think Tebow did anything himself to deserve the adjective "polarizing"...Michael Vick is far more polarizing a figure, and that's because of what he did.

this "polarizing" label has me a bit perplexed. Is this a behavior that he (Tebow) the player participates in? OR has he become a "polarized" figure because of how the media has manipulated the reactionist mob? think about that for a while. I have NEVER seen Tebow behave/comment to get "rise" out of others on his religiosity. If I am wrong, point me to the source. Cause right now, I just don't get it.

[Northman]

One thing is for certain, im really sick of Tim Tebow and still wish we had never drafted him.

[rationalfan]

Here is an article that tells it like it is. If you don't agree then you are either ignorant or have an agenda. Only Skip Bayless(who takes the opposite view of everything, that's his schtick) has TTs back.

You cant explain all the negative attention TT gets. i mean do we even know who the 2/3rd string QBs are around the league? Even if TT did suck as bad as ESPN makes him out to be(which obviously hes a beast).. WHO THE **** CARES? alot of sucky players out there... where are their stories?? where is thier month long 20 analyst bash fest?

Why have they made him such a focal point if not to try and ride him into the ground? THEY TRIED TO SAY THE DB SHOULD CUT HIM FFS! First they say he needs time and KO should start then they tried to say BQ was better then they tried to say webber was better then they tried to say he should be cut!!! lol holy shit

and the whole time he just played well... 20/31 310+ yards NO T/O and a TD with a 108 passer rating.. obviously he sucks and should be kicked off the team!

I believe its A) because of his religion and morals and B) because of his hybrid play style that no one wants to see succeed in the NFL. anyways here is the link.

http://thefloridagridiron.com/2011/09/espns-bias-against-tim-tebow/

i hope tebow succeeds, but a good player doesn't need 400 words to explain how good how is.

as for ESPN, you know they're going to huddle their analysts who don't think Tebow is a good player to talk about why they don't like his game. it's rating gold for people like you, who love tebow and react to comments like this. don't know why this is so shocking.

[rationalfan]

One thing is for certain, im really sick of Tim Tebow and still wish we had never drafted him.

i like tebow and am starting to feel the same as you.

MODS: has there been any thought to a dedicated, separate Tebow forum on this site? it would clear up this broncos forum from all the tebow threads that blow up out of control.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

WHY does anyone care what ESPN thinks???????

[Ravage!!!]

this "polarizing" label has me a bit perplexed. Is this a behavior that he (Tebow) the player participates in? OR has he become a "polarized" figure because of how the media has manipulated the reactionist mob? think about that for a while. I have NEVER seen Tebow behave/comment to get "rise" out of others on his religiosity. If I am wrong, point me to the source. Cause right now, I just don't get it.

Exactly. The reason he's "polarizing" is the same reason from which people are complaining.... the media surrounding him. The reason he is getting negative press now is because of all the 'hype' media he received before. If he didn't get the media hype bfore, he wouldn't be considered polarizing. If he didn't get the media attention now, he wouldn't be considered polarizing.

[rationalfan]

I just dont think Tebow did anything himself to deserve the adjective "polarizing"...Michael Vick is far more polarizing a figure, and that's because of what he did.

anyone who pronounces his faith in the public is polarizing. no other subject in our nation divides people like religion.

[slim]

The Jags current starting QB is worse than Tebow.

I wonder how far ESPN will go out of their way to throw him under the bus?

[slim]

anyone who pronounces his faith in the public is polarizing. no other subject in our nation divides people like religion.

Abortion.

[Ravage!!!]

The Jags current starting QB is worse than Tebow.

I wonder how far ESPN will go out of their way to throw him under the bus?

He's nothing more than a placeholder. He's been in the league for years as nothing but a back up and didn't have the HYPE tht surrounded Tebow coming out of college.

The higher a group puts a person up on a pedastal, the more people are going to be there to knock him off that pedastal. Tebow didn't put himself up there, but many of the "bullgators" and "jagsbitch" did.

Its not Tebow's fault, but the articles written to knock him down aren't intended for Tebow....they are intended to get the reaction from the affore mentioned, and it works.

[slim]

He's nothing more than a placeholder. He's been in the league for years as nothing but a back up and didn't have the HYPE tht surrounded Tebow coming out of college.

The higher a group puts a person up on a pedastal, the more people are going to be there to knock him off that pedastal. Tebow didn't put himself up there, but many of the "bullgators" and "jagsbitch" did.

Its not Tebow's fault, but the articles written to knock him down aren't intended for Tebow....they are intended to get the reaction from the affore mentioned, and it works.

I agree and that is what bothers me. I mean, the kid is clearly not ready to play, but throwing him under the bus just to get ratings is pretty bush league, IMO. I understand why they do it, just not sure it is the right thing to do.

[rationalfan]

Abortion.

but the basis of most people's crusade against abortion is religious beliefs.

[Thnikkaman]

I'm bored and nobody has talked about my favorite sophomore qb in a while. I think I'll go start another useless thread about it.

[BroncoNut]

but the basis of most people's crusade against abortion is religious beliefs.
true, not sure what Slim's point was. I kinda just pretended I didn't see the post

[Northman]

true, not sure what Slim's point was. I kinda just pretended I didn't see the post

How can you miss a dancing fat man?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

E!SPN biased against you know who? No more than some are biased for him.

[Lancane]

The Jags current starting QB is worse than Tebow.

I wonder how far ESPN will go out of their way to throw him under the bus?

He's starting for the time being in front of a rookie quarterback, and I'd bet money that Gabbert in a year or two will be turning heads.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

He's starting for the time being in front of a rookie quarterback, and I'd bet money that Gabbert in a year or two will be turning heads.

Perhaps, but it's Jacksonville. They won't spend the money to protect their QBs or to give them decent weapons. If Gabbert plays with the current offense, he's going to struggle. Other than Marcedes Lewis, he has no real targets and MJD can only do so much with defenses putting 8 in the box to stop him.

Of all the QBs drafted in the first round last year, I think Gabbert was the most overrated and went to the second worst scenario (behind Newton). Looking at Gabbert's #s in college, he wasn't very impressive playing in the offense he did in the conference he played in.

[MOtorboat]

The Jags current starting QB is worse than Tebow.

I wonder how far ESPN will go out of their way to throw him under the bus?

It's a two-way street. How many McCown jerseys do you think the NFL is selling.

Tebow is being talked about because of his popularity. People want to hear about Tebow, so ESPN analysts talk about Tebow, and if their opinion isn't glowing, should they then change their opinion to be a positive opinion of Tebow, just because his jersey is popular and he's well liked by many fans?

[Lancane]

Perhaps, but it's Jacksonville. They won't spend the money to protect their QBs or to give them decent weapons. If Gabbert plays with the current offense, he's going to struggle. Other than Marcedes Lewis, he has no real targets and MJD can only do so much with defenses putting 8 in the box to stop him.

Of all the QBs drafted in the first round last year, I think Gabbert was the most overrated and went to the second worst scenario (behind Newton).

Del Rio is done in Jacksonville unless he has a great season, the only reason they didn't fire him this year was because the lockout, that's at least what I've heard. It's also believed that Waiver and Vance are interested in A List coaches, such as Bill Cowher, Mike Mularkey, John Gruden and so on, they'll be a pretty big hot spot for coaching candidates having a young first round quarterback, and some pretty solid talent at other positions, they'll be like we were before we hired McDaniels, in need of some talent but still stocked pretty well.

I don't think Gabbert is overrated, I feel he is a lot like Jay Cutler was in 2006, but unlike Cutler there were some other good quarterbacks in that draft along with him, especially Jake Locker and possibly Andy Dalton.

[slim]

It's a two-way street. How many McCown jerseys do you think the NFL is selling.

Tebow is being talked about because of his popularity. People want to hear about Tebow, so ESPN analysts talk about Tebow, and if their opinion isn't glowing, should they then change their opinion to be a positive opinion of Tebow, just because his jersey is popular and he's well liked by many fans?

It's not the opinion that bothers me, but the vitriol and absolutes that accompany some of the opinions.

[slim]

but the basis of most people's crusade against abortion is religious beliefs.

Maybe. I have never looked at it as a religious issue. But maybe that's just me.

[MOtorboat]

It's not the opinion that bothers me, but the vitriol and absolutes that accompany some of the opinions.

I have no idea where people get this.

I have yet to hear a personal attack on Tebow on ESPN.

[Jsteve01]

Del Rio is done in Jacksonville unless he has a great season, the only reason they didn't fire him this year was because the lockout, that's at least what I've heard. It's also believed that Waiver and Vance are interested in A List coaches, such as Bill Cowher, Mike Mularkey, John Gruden and so on, they'll be a pretty big hot spot for coaching candidates having a young first round quarterback, and some pretty solid talent at other positions, they'll be like we were before we hired McDaniels, in need of some talent but still stocked pretty well.

I don't think Gabbert is overrated, I feel he is a lot like Jay Cutler was in 2006, but unlike Cutler there were some other good quarterbacks in that draft along with him, especially Jake Locker and possibly Andy Dalton.

It's all speculation at this point. I want to like Gabbert but he put up mediocre numbers in as system designed to highlight the qb. I think Locker is that guy that really pans from this class. Don't really like anyone else but possibly Kaepernick.

[slim]

I have no idea where people get this.

I have yet to hear a personal attack on Tebow on ESPN.

Well, I don't really watch ESPN. But based on the interviews I have heard with Merril Hoge (interviews on sports radio), he is clearly attacking Tebow simply to get his name out there. Now maybe he represents himself differently when he's on ESPN, IDK.

But I wasn't solely referring to ESPN, just national media types in general (mostly Hoge and Boomer).

[LTC Pain]

"Meril Hoge" sounds like something that comes out of the south end of a north bound Yak!

[Lancane]

It's all speculation at this point. I want to like Gabbert but he put up mediocre numbers in as system designed to highlight the qb. I think Locker is that guy that really pans from this class. Don't really like anyone else but possibly Kaepernick.

I'm not sold on Kaepernick, he's going to have to overcome some aspects of his game in order to translate to the pro-style, but I think having Harbaugh he's in a much better situation. Gabbert with the right coach could well end up being a very capable franchise quarterback. I agree that Locker looks to be the favorite of the class thus far, but let's not forget that Dalton has looked rather impressive at times nor that Ryan Mallett is probably in the best situation out of all those drafted in that class.

[rationalfan]

Maybe. I have never looked at it as a religious issue. But maybe that's just me.

i can respect that.

[Ravage!!!]

It's not the opinion that bothers me, but the vitriol and absolutes that accompany some of the opinions.

I don't get the problem with the "absolutes" in their opinions. I mean, if they feel he's NEVER going to be a good QB in the NFL, why can't they say that? They are paid to give THEIR opinions. We may not agree with them, we may not like them, but that doesn't mean they should have to express their opinion in any other manner.

[Poet]

The irony here is that ESPN was and still is a big part of the Tebow love in the media.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tim Tebow, I want him to be an elite QB. But you can't pick and choose.

[rationalfan]

The irony here is that ESPN was and still is a big part of the Tebow love in the media.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tim Tebow, I want him to be an elite QB. But you can't pick and choose.

so true. remember, espn did air an hour-long show focuses exclusively on Tebow during his time between his final game and being drafted. they did make the guy look pretty good there.

also worth mentioning: ESPN doesn't have to have an opinion on Tebow, but its employees can have opinions on Tebow.

[dogfish]

The irony here is that ESPN was and still is a big part of the Tebow love in the media.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tim Tebow, I want him to be an elite QB. But you can't pick and choose.

king: do you prefer maple-smoked bacon, or hickory-smoked?

[Poet]

king: do you prefer maple-smoked bacon, or hickory-smoked?

It depends what the bacon is going on.

If I'm just eating bacon, real bacon is real bacon.

It's like trying to decide if Scarlett Johansson or Jessica Biel is hotter...since you're living in that fantasy world, just take both.


hoptard: I'm learning to like beer. Good sign?

[slim]

it depends what the bacon is going on.

If i'm just eating bacon, real bacon is real bacon.

It's like trying to decide if scarlett johansson or jessica biel is hotter...since you're living in that fantasy world, just take both.


Hoptard: i'm learning to like beer. good sign?

wtf?

[Poet]

wtf?

I'm not much of a beer guy. Give me time.

[Northman]

I don't get the problem with the "absolutes" in their opinions. I mean, if they feel he's NEVER going to be a good QB in the NFL, why can't they say that? They are paid to give THEIR opinions. We may not agree with them, we may not like them, but that doesn't mean they should have to express their opinion in any other manner.

Who says they cant? But why cant we as a fanbase blast them for what we believe to be ignorant comments? If i feel like Merrill Hoge is a complete dumbass because he thinks Tebow will never make based off 3 games then whats the problem?

[slim]

I'm not much of a beer guy. Give me time.

I will give you until 5:00 pm EST. Not a minute more.

[Poet]

I will give you until 5:00 pm EST. Not a minute more.

Sir, you went on a diet. You cannot judge me.

[Northman]

Diets are for losers.

[Poet]

Diets are for losers.

I will reward this by saying Terrell Davis is deserving of the Hall of Fame.

Good trade.

[MOtorboat]

Who says they cant? But why cant we as a fanbase blast them for what we believe to be ignorant comments? If i feel like Merrill Hoge is a complete dumbass because he thinks Tebow will never make based off 3 games then whats the problem?

So, can I criticize you for criticizing ESPN for criticizing Tebow?

Or is that too much criticism?

[Northman]

So, can I criticize you for criticizing ESPN for criticizing Tebow?

Or is that too much criticism?


Can you criticize me personally? No. Its against the COC. But your more than welcome to challenge my viewpoint of Tim Tebow with no problem.

[MOtorboat]

Can you criticize me personally? No. Its against the COC. But your more than welcome to challenge my viewpoint of Tim Tebow with no problem.

Sorry, you didn't quite catch the sarcasm that I intended.

That said, the claims of bias are a little ridiculous. The OP asserts that an entire network is out to get a player that garnered them record ratings for college football for four years, just because its NFL analysts aren't sure he's going to be a good pro quarterback. He also then dismisses anyone at the network who speaks highly of the player. It's a bit outlandish.

[Northman]

Sorry, you didn't quite catch the sarcasm that I intended.

That said, the claims of bias are a little ridiculous. The OP asserts that an entire network is out to get a player that garnered them record ratings for college football for four years, just because its NFL analysts aren't sure he's going to be a good pro quarterback. He also then dismisses anyone at the network who speaks highly of the player. It's a bit outlandish.

Oh, i agree. Bullgator is the exact type of problem for a Tebow fanbase. He makes it harder to like the kid by his uber-obsession. I dont think ESPN as a network are out to get Tebow. There are analysist both pro and con who discuss Tebow but as another poster already stated its on those individual commentators as too what they say regarding any player or athlete.

But Bull's post is exactly why i made my first statement about never wanting to draft Tebow. It was guys like Jags that made me dislike him from the word go. The biggest problem with Bull's post is its basically bait. He hasnt even been back in this thread since then so i think people just need to remind themselves of what the purpose of this thread was. TROLLING.

I stopped taking guys like Jags and Bull a long time ago. Tebow has enough good qualities that he doesnt need his fanatics cluttering up the board with useless threads. Its quite sad that we actually tolerate it, i mean trolling is trolling.

[I Eat Staples]

Without getting into what I think of Tebow...

I could list 100's of players that are terrible. I could list all of the back-up QB's in the league that are terrible. The intriguing thing to me at least, is why is the back-up so relevant.

Why does this guy get pieces dedicated to how bad he is? Out of the dozens of players, they could chose to say who is terrible, why him?

This is me being objective as possible. I just think it's odd.

Because those other terrible players didn't have the top selling jersey (I believe) last year. The real question we should be asking is why the hell does this guy have such a large fan base in the NFL? There can't be THAT many Gator fans, can there?

[sneakers]

All Tebow threads go straight to black hole.

[MOtorboat]

Because those other terrible players didn't have the top selling jersey (I believe) last year. The real question we should be asking is why the hell does this guy have such a large fan base in the NFL? There can't be THAT many Gator fans, can there?

There are six programs in college football that have absolute, complete fanatics across the country rooting for them: Alabama, Nebraska, Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Notre Dame.

It doesn't surprise me at all.

[LTC Pain]

All Tebow threads go straight to black hole.

I'd settle for all Tebow threads being merged into one thread. There are so many Tebow threads and Tebow/Orton discussions that I can't remember where I posted my last comment on the guy???

[I Eat Staples]

Oh, i agree. Bullgator is the exact type of problem for a Tebow fanbase. He makes it harder to like the kid by his uber-obsession. I dont think ESPN as a network are out to get Tebow. There are analysist both pro and con who discuss Tebow but as another poster already stated its on those individual commentators as too what they say regarding any player or athlete.

But Bull's post is exactly why i made my first statement about never wanting to draft Tebow. It was guys like Jags that made me dislike him from the word go. The biggest problem with Bull's post is its basically bait. He hasnt even been back in this thread since then so i think people just need to remind themselves of what the purpose of this thread was. TROLLING.

I stopped taking guys like Jags and Bull a long time ago. Tebow has enough good qualities that he doesnt need his fanatics cluttering up the board with useless threads. Its quite sad that we actually tolerate it, i mean trolling is trolling.

Bullgator hasn't reached a Jagsbch level yet. That's some tough competition there. I think Bullgator is just overly passionate about Tebow, but I doubt Jags even believed half the stuff he said.

[Lancane]

Who says they cant? But why cant we as a fanbase blast them for what we believe to be ignorant comments? If i feel like Merrill Hoge is a complete dumbass because he thinks Tebow will never make based off 3 games then whats the problem?

I'm not going to say that their comments are necessary, sometimes the little jabs and quips are a little too much. However, Tebow's fan base are the reason he's as polarizing as he is, without question. Since his junior season his fans have literally disregarded those analysts of a respectable status which have stated their opinions of him. They didn't listen, they balked at it the idea that their golden boy was not so golden in the eyes of those at the next level. Even his head coach, a man that is extremely close to Tebow had stated that he felt Tebow would struggle to be successful at the next level because he isn't a pro-style quarterback, that drew some ire as well, but it makes people take notice. Then comes the end of his senior season and the heat is up, he's falling down the draft boards, his stock is declining and his fans are getting worked up, blasting every little comment that could be considered critical. But then he works out with Jon Gruden and his fans use what Gruden said about him to heart and started to get worse and worse. Sorry, but let's face facts, Gruden has developed what great quarterback at the NFL level? But yet they take that criticism to heart and attack more, then Mel Kiper, Mike Mayock, Jay Glazer, Scott Wright, Rick Gosselin, Will Spencer and several others including Head Coaches, General Managers and Scouting Personnel all say the same thing, that they feel he will not be successful, that his style and mechanics don't translate well to the pro-styles of the NFL and yadda, yadda...and it stirs up a hornets nest of mad idiots who are fans, that really don't know a F'n thing about football beyond the general basics. It does tend to wear on those in professional circles when they're getting slapped by meager fans about something they know much more about. I can understand how some get tired of it and could seriously start attacking more then just his tangibles to play the position.

Not that I agree that it's right or wrong, but eventually they're going to get sick of listening to the Pro-Tebow crowed when most of those in that crowed don't have a damn clue. And I am not talking about those who want to see the kid get a fair shot like you North, but those who make thread after thread and continuously defend him beyond reason? Most may hope that he proves to be a franchise capable quarterback, but there is another large group who doubts it and believes we will draft someone better suited, either way I am hoping that happens...because I think at that moment we'll be able to determine who is a Bronco fan and who is nothing more then a Tebow fan. Myself? I am to the point where I wish the kid was never drafted by us, that he had nothing to do with this team whatsoever.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

There are six programs in college football that have absolute, complete fanatics across the country rooting for them: Alabama, Nebraska, Ohio State, Florida, Michigan, Notre Dame.

It doesn't surprise me at all.

Fixed it for ya. :beer:

I don't think you could get someone to admit they're a Bobcat fan if you paid them... :D

[dogfish]

Fixed it for ya. :beer:

I don't think you could get someone to admit they're a Bobcat fan if you paid them... :D

hey, that's my alma mater gat damn it!


:mad:

[Nomad]

There are six programs in college football that have absolute, complete fanatics across the country rooting for them: Alabama, Nebraska, Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Notre Dame.

It doesn't surprise me at all.

How could you forget Texass!

[MOtorboat]

How could you forget Texass!

Because Texas bought half their fans.

:hi:

Not a traditional power and more people in Texas care about high scbool football and the Cowboys. Not rabid.

[Nomad]

Because Texas bought half their fans.

:hi:

Not a traditional power and more people in Texas care about high scbool football and the Cowboys. Not rabid.

Everywhere I lived even here in AK, you have more Texas crap at sports stores than any other school. They may buy them but the arrogance can't be bought. And I disagree on Texas fans not being rabid. That's why I can't stand them.

[Bullgator]

He's nothing more than a placeholder. He's been in the league for years as nothing but a back up and didn't have the HYPE tht surrounded Tebow coming out of college.

The higher a group puts a person up on a pedastal, the more people are going to be there to knock him off that pedastal. Tebow didn't put himself up there, but many of the "bullgators" and "jagsbitch" did.

Its not Tebow's fault, but the articles written to knock him down aren't intended for Tebow....they are intended to get the reaction from the affore mentioned, and it works.

**** with that bullshit ravage, Tebow earned every bit of respect and fanhood he has. The NFL may not respect him but believe it or not life counts before the NFL. That pedestal was well earned. You are such a hypocrite, you and everyone else here with that same attitude. Your precious Elway is on a pedestal with stilts and he didn't do SHIT for the Gators so I guess he don't deserve praise or fans either. You guys need to get off your high horse(no pun intended) and realize that the NFL isn't the end all be all of what is deemed as success.

get this straight fish, Im a Tebow fan. Just like you are a Elway fan. My guy won me 2 champeenchips and yours won you 2 as well. To degrade me for putting my favorite player on a pedestal is to degrade yourself for doing the same thing.

[Ravage!!!]

**** with that bullshit ravage, Tebow earned every bit of respect and fanhood he has.
Complete brilliance. I never said he didn't deserve your respect.


The NFL may not respect him but believe it or not life counts before the NFL.
Life? You never talk about life, you talk about Tebow as a football player. What does life have to do with him being an NFL QB? Nothing.


That pedestal was well earned.
Doesn't matter.


You are such a hypocrite, you and everyone else here with that same attitude. Your precious Elway is on a pedestal with stilts
yes,and he was attacked just as much as Tebow has been.


and he didn't do SHIT for the Gators so I guess he don't deserve praise or fans either.
What? :lol:


You guys need to get off your high horse(no pun intended) and realize that the NFL isn't the end all be all of what is deemed as success.
It is if you are comparing NFL football players. Not to mention, success is in the eye of the beholder. If I only look for success for a football player to be deemed by his success in the NFL, thats my right and prerogative.

I find it VERY funny. First you were telling all of us how Tebow was going to CHANGE and revolutionize the QB position in the NFL. How all of the QBs in college were changing their ways to be JUST like Tebow. Now, when things aren't looking so good... you want to tell us that success isn't purely based on the NFL. This would seem like a sign of retreat and admitting defeat. I'm sorry reality is hitting you in the head.... over and over and over again.


get this straight fish, Im a Tebow fan.
yes you are.


Just like you are a Elway fan.
I'm a Broncos fan.


My guy won me 2 champeenchips and yours won you 2 as well.
Yeah. I wonder which of the two is considered to be a bigger deal? Seems it wasn't long ago you would have been telling me how many Super Bowls Tebow was going to bring to the Broncos and win in the NFL. Now it seems you are accepting that the only Championships Tebow is going to bring you, is the lesser ones he won in college.


To degrade me for putting my favorite player on a pedestal is to degrade yourself for doing the same thing.
You might want to learn how to read. I never put anyone down for having their favorite player. However, the fact that you and your friends continued to claim over and over again how Tim was going to "change the position"... and was going to "Revolutionize" the QB position... you put Tebow in the sights of everyone that has a scope and a shot. Is that putting you down? Hardly.

[I Eat Staples]

**** with that bullshit ravage, Tebow earned every bit of respect and fanhood he has. The NFL may not respect him but believe it or not life counts before the NFL. That pedestal was well earned. You are such a hypocrite, you and everyone else here with that same attitude. Your precious Elway is on a pedestal with stilts and he didn't do SHIT for the Gators so I guess he don't deserve praise or fans either. You guys need to get off your high horse(no pun intended) and realize that the NFL isn't the end all be all of what is deemed as success.

get this straight fish, Im a Tebow fan. Just like you are a Elway fan. My guy won me 2 champeenchips and yours won you 2 as well. To degrade me for putting my favorite player on a pedestal is to degrade yourself for doing the same thing.

Insulting John Elway is not going to endear you to Bronco fans. Come on now man, Elway didn't do shit for the Gators? Um okay, Tom Brady didn't do shit for Texas, Peyton Manning didn't do shit for Notre Dame. Seriously, that post gets a resounding lolwut?

Most of the people posting here are posting here just because they are Bronco fans. There are plenty of college football fans, but when it comes to the Broncos, we don't give a shit what a player did in college. If you only care what Tebow did for the Gators, why even follow him to the NFL? You basically said the NFL doesn't matter to you. You put it on the same level as college. You do realize that's like saying what you do in little league is equal to a senior playing varsity baseball against top prospects, right?

[Bullgator]

Because when he was in college, and coming out of college, and entered the NFL.... we heard from SOOOO many "BullGators" shoving Tebow down our throats about how good he is..... that people are now pointing out to THEM that he's not going to "change the QB position forever." As we've heard from the Tebow pundants over and over and over and over and over again.

Thats really the reason

Hold on a minute.... who says that he wont change the position? I still know this to be fact.

The media has made you a big batch of koolaid and your spilling some on your bib there rav... TT has never had a bad game... hes not a bust... he hasn't shown anything but good solid play since he stepped out on the NFL field. They(coaches) are trying to make him into something hes not and he STILL busted off a 108 rating.

Build an offensive scheme around his strengths... build some play action around his bread a butter plays and watch him move right down the field. YOU GUYS are convinced that he sucks.. and have been convinced without any evidence like good sheep. what makes you think that he cant dominate? a few days in practice? a few comments from Merril Streep? Hes just pissed that TT is 10x better a runner than he ever dreamed about being.

When TT finally gets his chance to actually play he will never look back and neither will the position. I think the NFL is holding on the the QB position and trying to keep it as is. its the last position where an nonathletic white guy can still play. If TT turns that position into an athletic one then we may just see 22 black guys on the field from that day forward.. lawls.... im only half kidding about that one....

to say that the media is pissed at people like me and wants to shit on us for being Tebowners is the gheyest thing I have ever heard. They may hate us, but not for hyping TT... they hate us because we hype TT cuz we are Jesus freaks. The world dont like JC very much you see... its called persecution.

The fact is that TT is an easy target... say some shit like that about Ray Lewis and a mother******'s going to get shot over some mess like that. but a golly gee gosh TT who loves Jesus is an easy target. and people hate him for his demeanor, religion and popularity period.

And they(you) hate me for the same reason...im just not as easy a target as tim.. ill spit a lil fire on that ass ;)

cuz someone tried to hellfire and brimstone your ass and shove religion down your throat and now you hate all Christians cuz some idiot made you feel uncomfortable. search your feeling luke... you know this to be true...

[Ravage!!!]

oh brother :coffee:

[Bullgator]

Insulting John Elway is not going to endear you to Bronco fans. Come on now man, Elway didn't do shit for the Gators? Um okay, Tom Brady didn't do shit for Texas, Peyton Manning didn't do shit for Notre Dame. Seriously, that post gets a resounding lolwut?

Most of the people posting here are posting here just because they are Bronco fans. There are plenty of college football fans, but when it comes to the Broncos, we don't give a shit what a player did in college. If you only care what Tebow did for the Gators, why even follow him to the NFL? You basically said the NFL doesn't matter to you. You put it on the same level as college. You do realize that's like saying what you do in little league is equal to a senior playing varsity baseball against top prospects, right?

you guys missed my point... ill spell it out for you... to say that TT doesnt deserve his pedestal because he hasnt done shit for the broncos yet is as silly as me saying Elway doesnt deserve his for not doing shit for my Gators...

indeed it is an lolwut. Both our fan bases are large and well respected.

opines, opines.... IMO college football is the grand daddy and more important than the NFL... its championships mean more. and that the only reason that a business like the NFL could exist and thrive is only because college football players need a ******* job after they are done at their Alma maters. But i digress.

Its not over... be careful not to celebrate too early... the Lord has a flair for the dramatic. It will be as i said before its all over. TT will be a bronco legend, no matter what the media is trying to dictate.

[Bullgator]

http://www.inallkindsofweather.com/blog/what-if-tim-tebow-wasnt-tim-tebow.html

check this out.... you guys KNOW this would be true.

[swaiy]

When TT finally gets his chance to actually play he will never look back and neither will the position. I think the NFL is holding on the the QB position and trying to keep it as is. its the last position where an nonathletic white guy can still play. If TT turns that position into an athletic one then we may just see 22 black guys on the field from that day forward.. lawls.... im only half kidding about that one....



HOOOOOLY SHIT I about slipped into a coma. That was hilarious. Good grief man. I'm not even being sarcastic. :laugh:

[FanInAZ]

I would like someone to produce a complete list of every time TT has discussed his religious views with the sports media; because I've yet to view one with my own eyes. Seriously, TT doesn't talk about his religion in public nearly as much as the God Haters do. As far as the one who brought up Reggie White, the only time I’m aware of him bringing up God was during interviews in which his personal life was the main subject. Because of this, the media nicknamed him, “the Minister of Defense.” I’m not aware of any interviews where he identified himself by that title, nor brought up God to someone who was interviewing him about football.

Gator:

1) Kurt Warner is a devout Christian that the media speaks positively of. Why? Because he has produced on the field of play. All media outlets will bash players who have yet to produce on the field, especially those who are billed as the next greatest player at their position of all time.

2) The media figured out a long time ago that making statements that enflame people's anger gets better ratings that intelligent analysis. Statements like the ones you've made in this thread tell the media that bashing TT will improve their ratings by getting people to talk about their article. If you want ESPN, as well the other media outlet, to stop bashing TT; then you need to stop talking about what ESPN writes.

[Northman]

Insulting John Elway is not going to endear you to Bronco fans. Come on now man, Elway didn't do shit for the Gators? Um okay, Tom Brady didn't do shit for Texas, Peyton Manning didn't do shit for Notre Dame. Seriously, that post gets a resounding lolwut?

Most of the people posting here are posting here just because they are Bronco fans. There are plenty of college football fans, but when it comes to the Broncos, we don't give a shit what a player did in college. If you only care what Tebow did for the Gators, why even follow him to the NFL? You basically said the NFL doesn't matter to you. You put it on the same level as college. You do realize that's like saying what you do in little league is equal to a senior playing varsity baseball against top prospects, right?

Well, yes and no. Rav is pretty guilty of holding Andrew Luck in very high regard based off of his college performance. :lol:

But, everything else you posted is spot on. Hate to say it Bullgator but you brought a lot of the Tebow hatred upon yourself on here. Its ok to believe in a guy that you like as an athlete. But when you go out of your way to call conspiracy theories or say this person is going to revolutionize a position thats going a bit overboard. Ive had tons of players i liked coming out of Virginia but i dont claim they are going to change the world of NFL football. Even as much as i loved Elway he had his own faults and in the end was still just a man and even as great as he was needed help to win titles.

[Northman]

I would like someone to produce a complete list of every time TT has discussed his religious views with the sports media; because I've yet to view one with my own eyes. Seriously, TT doesn't talk about his religion in public nearly as much as the God Haters do. As far as the one who brought up Reggie White, the only time I’m aware of him bringing up God was during interviews in which his personal life was the main subject. Because of this, the media nicknamed him, “the Minister of Defense.” I’m not aware of any interviews where he identified himself by that title, nor brought up God to someone who was interviewing him about football.

Gator:

1) Kurt Warner is a devout Christian that the media speaks positively of. Why? Because he has produced on the field of play. All media outlets will bash players who have yet to produce on the field, especially those who are billed as the next greatest player at their position of all time.

2) The media figured out a long time ago that making statements that enflame people's anger gets better ratings that intelligent analysis. Statements like the ones you've made in this thread tell the media that bashing TT will improve their ratings by getting people to talk about their article. If you want ESPN, as well the other media outlet, to stop bashing TT; then you need to stop talking about what ESPN writes.

Best post of the thread. :beer:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

**** with that bullshit ravage, Tebow earned every bit of respect and fanhood he has. The NFL may not respect him but believe it or not life counts before the NFL. That pedestal was well earned. You are such a hypocrite, you and everyone else here with that same attitude. Your precious Elway is on a pedestal with stilts and he didn't do SHIT for the Gators so I guess he don't deserve praise or fans either. You guys need to get off your high horse(no pun intended) and realize that the NFL isn't the end all be all of what is deemed as success.

get this straight fish, Im a Tebow fan. Just like you are a Elway fan. My guy won me 2 champeenchips and yours won you 2 as well. To degrade me for putting my favorite player on a pedestal is to degrade yourself for doing the same thing.

Fantastic! Go praise, defend, reminisce, and group hug about Tebow and what he did for the Gators on a GATORS forum. Nobody here praises Elway and puts him on a pedestal because of what he did at Stanford.

In case you still haven't noticed, this is a BRONCOS message board, bro. Your complete lack of objectivity regarding Tebow combined with the fact that you rarely, if ever, participate in any Broncos discussions not including Tebow is what kills your arguments for Tim every time. It's obvious that you only care about the Broncos because Tebow is here. Many of us love Tebow too and are glad he's a Bronco, but our lives and every one of our posts don't revolve around just him...

Dude, I LOVE Tebow. I'm excited to see what he's capable of and think he can be a great NFL QB. I hope he gets his shot sooner than later and have faith that he will be successful. I know that you are not used to this and in college 95% of the Tebow press was positive and most of the remaining 5% was from bitter 'Bama and Vols homers, but he hasn't proven worthy of absolute praise from anyone, yet. Will he one day? Probably. Will his supporters get to gloat and his doubters eat crow? Probably. Until then, you've just got to weather the storm of criticism or you're going to be miserable.

In the meantime, as a Broncos fan first and Tebow fan (or any player fan) second, I suggest you at least attempt to accept that Tebow isn't the starter, will receive unwarranted criticism, and must be judged worthy by the coaches (not the fans) to start before he will get that opportunity. Assimilate onto the BRONCOS bandwagon and not just the TEBOW bandwagon and you'll have a lot less stress. There's still room available! I'll keep a seat warm for you while you think about it.

[claymore]

**** with that bullshit ravage, Tebow earned every bit of respect and fanhood he has. The NFL may not respect him but believe it or not life counts before the NFL. That pedestal was well earned. You are such a hypocrite, you and everyone else here with that same attitude. Your precious Elway is on a pedestal with stilts and he didn't do SHIT for the Gators so I guess he don't deserve praise or fans either. You guys need to get off your high horse(no pun intended) and realize that the NFL isn't the end all be all of what is deemed as success.

get this straight fish, Im a Tebow fan. Just like you are a Elway fan. My guy won me 2 champeenchips and yours won you 2 as well. To degrade me for putting my favorite player on a pedestal is to degrade yourself for doing the same thing.

Difference is we dont go to gator forums spewing bullshit about Elway. Also, the NFL and the HOF is the end all be all of football.

I dont give a **** what Tebow did in grade school, high school, or college. I care what he does as a Bronco. So far he has only polished the bench with his ass.

[MOtorboat]

Dear Builgator,

Look up Fran Tarkenton, Randall Cunningham and Michael Vick, read about what they did as NFL quarterbacks, and then get back to us on the "revolutionizing the game."

Sincerely,
MO

[claymore]

Dear Builgator,

Look up Fran Tarkenton, Randall Cunningham and Michael Vick, read about what they did as NFL quarterbacks, and then get back to us on the "revolutionizing the game."

Sincerely,
MO

Look at all their super bowl rings too. THose run first guys are great at the beginning of the season, but DC always find a way to shut them down.

You have to be able to produce from the pocket.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Look at all their super bowl rings too. THose run first guys are great at the beginning of the season, but DC always find a way to shut them down.

You have to be able to produce from the pocket.

In all fairness, Tarkenton was a very good QB who led the Vikings to Superbowls. It wasn't his fault that the "Purple People Eaters" defense turned into the "Purple Penis Eaters" defense when they played the Chiefs.

[MOtorboat]

In all fairness, Tarkenton was a very good QB who led the Vikings to Superbowls. It wasn't his fault that the "Purple People Eaters" defense turned into the "Purple Penis Eaters" defense when they played the Chiefs.

Cunningham and Vick have been to NFC Championships.

[claymore]

In all fairness, Tarkenton was a very good QB who led the Vikings to Superbowls. It wasn't his fault that the "Purple People Eaters" defense turned into the "Purple Penis Eaters" defense when they played the Chiefs.

Loved Tarkenton. Especially on "Believe it or not". Just saying that he didnt have any SB rings.

Steve Young was a great Runner, but he got it done as a passer as well.

[MOtorboat]

Loved Tarkenton. Especially on "Believe it or not". Just saying that he didnt have any SB rings.

Steve Young was a great Runner, but he got it done as a passer as well.

When we have talked about Young as a runner since we drafted Tebow, we've severely overrated his running ability. He had a couple of famous runs in big games that we remember, but he really didn't run it all that much.

He, however, was the most efficient quarterback ever.

[claymore]

When we have talked about Young as a runner since we drafted Tebow, we've severely overrated his running ability. He had a couple of famous runs in big games that we remember, but he really didn't run it all that much.

He, however, was the most efficient quarterback ever.

Hell yeah, he was aweswome.

[Northman]

Loved Tarkenton. Especially on "Believe it or not". Just saying that he didnt have any SB rings.

Steve Young was a great Runner, but he got it done as a passer as well.

Yea, ive always hated when people try to use Young as a comparison for running QB's. So many people dont understand that Steve Young was a excellent passer who 9 times out of 10 would throw the ball instead of running unless it was a necessity. A far cry from a guy like Vick or Vince Young.

[vandammage13]

Loved Tarkenton. Especially on "Believe it or not". Just saying that he didnt have any SB rings.

Steve Young was a great Runner, but he got it done as a passer as well.

Marino is arguably the greatest pocket passer of all time, and he has 0 rings as well.

Is it possible that more SB's are won by pocket passers because there are simply more of them?

[Jsteve01]

When we have talked about Young as a runner since we drafted Tebow, we've severely overrated his running ability. He had a couple of famous runs in big games that we remember, but he really didn't run it all that much.

He, however, was the most efficient quarterback ever.

remember when he almost signed with Denver? Wow things could have been different

[Ravage!!!]

Steve Young was a very good RB going into and into college, until switching to QB. The guy was an unbelievable athlete. He was a good runner, but like its been said, he was also the most efficient QB in history. He was a GREAT passer, and that is what won him the Super Bowl.

[Ravage!!!]

I would like someone to produce a complete list of every time TT has discussed his religious views with the sports media; because I've yet to view one with my own eyes. Seriously, TT doesn't talk about his religion in public nearly as much as the God Haters do.

I seem to hear it from those "claiming" persecution. I've never seen anyone attack Tebow's faith, but it seems that if you criticize Tebow, its BECAUSE of his faith... thus defending the faith are the ones that seem to be the ONLY ones bringing it up. Thats just how I have seen it.

[FanInAZ]

I seem to hear it from those "claiming" persecution. I've never seen anyone attack Tebow's faith, but it seems that if you criticize Tebow, its BECAUSE of his faith... thus defending the faith are the ones that seem to be the ONLY ones bringing it up. Thats just how I have seen it.

So are you at least acknowledging that all of this talking is being done by his fans, not him? Why blame him for what his fans are doing?

[Northman]

Is it possible that more SB's are won by pocket passers because there are simply more of them?


Personally? I doubt it. At the end of the day every QB needs to be able to get it done through the air and done accurately. Until the run first QB's prove they can win using their legs with subpar QB passer ratings i think it will always be that way. In the last decade there have been more of those type of QB's yet only one actually made the SB. And while McNabb was probably the closest of those types of QB's to make it (although he is still better than the others passing) he was still beaten out by a pure passer when it was all said and done.

[FanInAZ]

On the subject of Steve Young, he’s a devout Mormon (unless he’s changed since the mid ‘90s. I even saw him in a TV commercial promoting his religion back in ‘96. Yet, the media doesn't have a problem with him since he won his SB ring. Actually, the pregame & announcer crews were practically rooting for him against the Chargers so he could get the stigma taken off his head. Similar to what a lot of them were doing for Elway before & during SB XXXII.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

**** with that bullshit ravage, Tebow earned every bit of respect and fanhood he has. The NFL may not respect him but believe it or not life counts before the NFL. That pedestal was well earned. You are such a hypocrite, you and everyone else here with that same attitude. Your precious Elway is on a pedestal with stilts and he didn't do SHIT for the Gators so I guess he don't deserve praise or fans either. You guys need to get off your high horse(no pun intended) and realize that the NFL isn't the end all be all of what is deemed as success.

get this straight fish, Im a Tebow fan. Just like you are a Elway fan. My guy won me 2 champeenchips and yours won you 2 as well. To degrade me for putting my favorite player on a pedestal is to degrade yourself for doing the same thing.

#7 EARNED being put on a pedestal with stilts by the Bronco fans for what he DID for the Broncos - I am sure that he was put on a pedestal with stilts by the Stanford fans - TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS Gator fans have put Tebow on a pedestal with stilts, which Tebow DEFINITELY earned. However, as of today, Tebow has NOT done anything yet for Bronco fans to put him on a pedestal with stilts.

[claymore]

Marino is arguably the greatest pocket passer of all time, and he has 0 rings as well.

Is it possible that more SB's are won by pocket passers because there are simply more of them?

I think its because they are harder to defend against. A pocket passer, you have to cover the whole field, and given enough time he will tear you up.

A guy like Vick, or Tebow, you just have to take his primary receiver, and contain him in the pocket.

[MOtorboat]

On the subject of Steve Young, he’s a devout Mormon (unless he’s changed since the mid ‘90s. I even saw him in a TV commercial promoting his religion back in ‘96. Yet, the media doesn't have a problem with him since he won his SB ring. Actually, the pregame & announcer crews were practically rooting for him against the Chargers so he could get the stigma taken off his head. Similar to what a lot of them were doing for Elway before & during SB XXXII.

IT'S NOT ABOUT TEBOW'S RELIGION! It's because he sucks on the field.

And Young faced as much scrutiny as any quarterback ever when he took over from Montana until he won that NFC Championship, complete with the "monkey off his back" quote from NFL Films.

Tebow is getting criticized because he's not a good quarterback, not because of his damned religion. And the only people that seem to bring it up and make it about his religion are his supporters in some sort of lame effort to criticize his critics because they don't think he's good enough.

[Slick]

If you are so sure tim will be a stud qb in the nfl why do comments from espn and the media bother you, bullgator?

i think he has a chance to be great. I dont care what hoge and boomer say.

See how easy that was?

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[vandammage13]

I think its because they are harder to defend against. A pocket passer, you have to cover the whole field, and given enough time he will tear you up.

A guy like Vick, or Tebow, you just have to take his primary receiver, and contain him in the pocket.

I see what you are saying, and I generally agree.

However, I do think that the reason we don't see too many scrambling QB's featured in offenses in the NFL is because there simply aren't enough of them skilled enough to make it at this level to warrant an offensive coordinator building his philosophy around that style of play. There are way more pocket passers out there available to choose from.

I personally believe that it's not necessarily that a scrambling QB can't win a Super Bowl, but that NFL offensive coordinators have been doing things a certain way all of their careers. I think with the right innovative mind designing the plays, an elite physical talent like a Michael Vick can win a Super Bowl.

There just aren't enough Michael Vicks or Randall Cunninghams, or in our case Tim Tebows to go around for a coach to build his philosophy around it. Because if they go down, chances are you won't have another QB on your roster that can run that type of offensive style.

[vandammage13]

IT'S NOT ABOUT TEBOW'S RELIGION! It's because he sucks on the field.

And when exactly has Tebow sucked on the field? I think you can argue that he doesn't look like he'll ever be elite, but everytime he's taken the field he hasn't sucked once. He's at least been average in production.

[FanInAZ]

IT'S NOT ABOUT TEBOW'S RELIGION! It's because he sucks on the field.

And Young faced as much scrutiny as any quarterback ever when he took over from Montana until he won that NFC Championship, complete with the "monkey off his back" quote from NFL Films.

Tebow is getting criticized because he's not a good quarterback, not because of his damned religion. And the only people that seem to bring it up and make it about his religion are his supporters in some sort of lame effort to criticize his critics because they don't think he's good enough.

That's the point that I'm trying to make to Gator. Now if can realize that, and those around here who are sick of hearing about hear religion could realize that they need to stop ripping him for something that he isn't doing (constantly talking about his religion in public), maybe we can put this entire subject to rest and get back to talking about football.

[MOtorboat]

And when exactly has Tebow sucked on the field? I think you can argue that he doesn't look like he'll ever be elite, but everytime he's taken the field he hasn't sucked once. He's at least been average in production.

You just keep telling yourself that.

[Slick]

you too Mo.

[BroncoNut]

no one knows about Tebow Mo. Not even you.

[claymore]

I see what you are saying, and I generally agree.

However, I do think that the reason we don't see too many scrambling QB's featured in offenses in the NFL is because there simply aren't enough of them skilled enough to make it at this level to warrant an offensive coordinator building his philosophy around that style of play. There are way more pocket passers out there available to choose from.

I personally believe that it's not necessarily that a scrambling QB can't win a Super Bowl, but that NFL offensive coordinators have been doing things a certain way all of their careers. I think with the right innovative mind designing the plays, an elite physical talent like a Michael Vick can win a Super Bowl.

There just aren't enough Michael Vicks or Randall Cunninghams, or in our case Tim Tebows to go around for a coach to build his philosophy around it. Because if they go down, chances are you won't have another QB on your roster that can run that type of offensive style.

I think there are plenty of scrambling QB's. Vince Young, Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, etc...

Most young mobile QB's never have to develop their passing skills.

Once they get to the NFL they are so far behind developmentaly that they continue to want to run when option A is taken away. They need to progress through their reads,Instead they are looking to run.

[NorCalBronco7]

Hold on a minute.... who says that he wont change the position? I still know this to be fact.

The media has made you a big batch of koolaid and your spilling some on your bib there rav... TT has never had a bad game... hes not a bust... he hasn't shown anything but good solid play since he stepped out on the NFL field. They(coaches) are trying to make him into something hes not and he STILL busted off a 108 rating.

Build an offensive scheme around his strengths... build some play action around his bread a butter plays and watch him move right down the field. YOU GUYS are convinced that he sucks.. and have been convinced without any evidence like good sheep. what makes you think that he cant dominate? a few days in practice? a few comments from Merril Streep? Hes just pissed that TT is 10x better a runner than he ever dreamed about being.

When TT finally gets his chance to actually play he will never look back and neither will the position. I think the NFL is holding on the the QB position and trying to keep it as is. its the last position where an nonathletic white guy can still play. If TT turns that position into an athletic one then we may just see 22 black guys on the field from that day forward.. lawls.... im only half kidding about that one....

to say that the media is pissed at people like me and wants to shit on us for being Tebowners is the gheyest thing I have ever heard. They may hate us, but not for hyping TT... they hate us because we hype TT cuz we are Jesus freaks. The world dont like JC very much you see... its called persecution.

The fact is that TT is an easy target... say some shit like that about Ray Lewis and a mother******'s going to get shot over some mess like that. but a golly gee gosh TT who loves Jesus is an easy target. and people hate him for his demeanor, religion and popularity period.

And they(you) hate me for the same reason...im just not as easy a target as tim.. ill spit a lil fire on that ass ;)

cuz someone tried to hellfire and brimstone your ass and shove religion down your throat and now you hate all Christians cuz some idiot made you feel uncomfortable. search your feeling luke... you know this to be true...


[x] limited understanding of football and reality.

[vandammage13]

I think there are plenty of scrambling QB's. Vince Young, Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, etc...

Most young mobile QB's never have to develop their passing skills.

Once they get to the NFL they are so far behind developmentaly that they continue to want to run when option A is taken away. They need to progress through their reads,Instead they are looking to run.

The problem is that NFL OC's don't utilize their skills correctly. They try to make them into pocket passers, which in turn, takes away their most dangerous attributes and forces them to be something they are not. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

It is hard for me to say that an offense that is 100% built to maximize a running QB can't work in the NFL, because that style of offense has never been 100% committed to in the modern NFL.

At most, coaches have used a half hearted approach when they commit to a scrambling type QB, and have never completely designed an offense around one. They may give the scrambling QB the freedom to scramble and make plays, but never fully design the offense around his abilities.

The NFL is usually behind the power curve when it comes to innovation...it always has been.

Used to be 3 yards and a cloud of dust, followed by your traditional I formation and pro sets, WCO, and now you are seeing more spread passing attacks. All of these styles originate in the college ranks, but the NFL is usually slower to adapt to it.

It's just going to take one coach to commit to it and show some success, then the rest will copy and follow suit as they have done in the past.

[vandammage13]

You just keep telling yourself that.

Right back at ya. :beer:

[claymore]

The problem is that NFL OC's don't utilize their skills correctly. They try to make them into pocket passers, which in turn, takes away their most dangerous attributes and forces them to be something they are not. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

It is hard for me to say that an offense that is 100% built to maximize a running QB can't work in the NFL, because that style of offense has never been 100% committed to in the modern NFL.

At most, coaches have used a half hearted approach when they commit to a scrambling type QB, and have never completely designed an offense around one. The NFL is usually behind the power curve when it comes to innovation...it always has been.

Used to be 3 yards and a cloud of dust, followed by your traditional I formation and pro sets, WCO, and now you are seeing more spread passing attacks. All of these styles originate in the college ranks, but the NFL is usually slower to adapt to it.

It's just going to take one coach to commit to it and show some success, then the rest will copy and follow suit as they have done in the past.I agree to a point. I would be all for Tebow starting over Orton if we had a guy like Shanahan here to maximize his talents coupled with our running game. I think it would be sick (eventually).

I think it will take Tebow awhile to learn what college QB's already know about taking the ball from under center. That puts this regime in a tough spot.

[vandammage13]

I agree to a point. I would be all for Tebow starting over Orton if we had a guy like Shanahan here to maximize his talents coupled with our running game. I think it would be sick (eventually).

I think it will take Tebow awhile to learn what college QB's already know about taking the ball from under center. That puts this regime in a tough spot.

Aside from Tim's final stats from the last preseason game, and whether or not you think they mean anything....The thing I took away from Tebow's performance that I was most impressed with is that I saw a marked improvement in him getting out from under center more quickly and even stood in the pocket (when there was one) a few times to make the throw.

A lot of people get caught up in the stats, but I did see some improvement in the fundamentals and little things. It's still a learning process for him, but I have seen improvement in that area.

[MOtorboat]

The problem is that NFL OC's don't utilize their skills correctly. They try to make them into pocket passers, which in turn, takes away their most dangerous attributes and forces them to be something they are not. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

It is hard for me to say that an offense that is 100% built to maximize a running QB can't work in the NFL, because that style of offense has never been 100% committed to in the modern NFL.

At most, coaches have used a half hearted approach when they commit to a scrambling type QB, and have never completely designed an offense around one. They may give the scrambling QB the freedom to scramble and make plays, but never fully design the offense around his abilities.

The NFL is usually behind the power curve when it comes to innovation...it always has been.

Used to be 3 yards and a cloud of dust, followed by your traditional I formation and pro sets, WCO, and now you are seeing more spread passing attacks. All of these styles originate in the college ranks, but the NFL is usually slower to adapt to it.

It's just going to take one coach to commit to it and show some success, then the rest will copy and follow suit as they have done in the past.

The Falcons did. They made it to an NFC Championship. Tebow is no where near as talented as Michael Vick, and Vick is much faster and has a better arm.

Tebow will have to learn to succeed from the pocket. He's not changing the game with his legs.

[I Eat Staples]

Well, yes and no. Rav is pretty guilty of holding Andrew Luck in very high regard based off of his college performance. :lol:

But, everything else you posted is spot on. Hate to say it Bullgator but you brought a lot of the Tebow hatred upon yourself on here. Its ok to believe in a guy that you like as an athlete. But when you go out of your way to call conspiracy theories or say this person is going to revolutionize a position thats going a bit overboard. Ive had tons of players i liked coming out of Virginia but i dont claim they are going to change the world of NFL football. Even as much as i loved Elway he had his own faults and in the end was still just a man and even as great as he was needed help to win titles.

Well yeah, college performance does matter to a certain extent, like how badly we'd want to draft a player. Andrew Luck is a good example of that. But I meant once that player is on the Broncos, they have to prove themselves as a Bronco player in the NFL.

[vandammage13]

The Falcons did. They made it to an NFC Championship. Tebow is no where near as talented as Michael Vick, and Vick is much faster and has a better arm.

Tebow will have to learn to succeed from the pocket. He's not changing the game with his legs.

Tell that to the guys he rushed for 200 yards and 3 TDs on in just 3 games...

He doesn't have nearly the raw speed of Vick, but he gets from 0-60 very quickly and is very quick in changing direction. Not to mention he has much more physical strength than Vick has.

Look at the numbers he put up in the shuttle drill at the combine. Some of the best numbers ever for a QB and they were on par with some of the top RB's, and the shuttle is a much better measurement of running ability in the NFL than a straight 40 time.
(If combine numbers don't matter to you then refer back to the 1st sentence in this post.)

He's a different type of runner than Vick, but still very effective.

[Bullgator]

I would like someone to produce a complete list of every time TT has discussed his religious views with the sports media; because I've yet to view one with my own eyes. Seriously, TT doesn't talk about his religion in public nearly as much as the God Haters do. As far as the one who brought up Reggie White, the only time I’m aware of him bringing up God was during interviews in which his personal life was the main subject. Because of this, the media nicknamed him, “the Minister of Defense.” I’m not aware of any interviews where he identified himself by that title, nor brought up God to someone who was interviewing him about football.

Gator:

1) Kurt Warner is a devout Christian that the media speaks positively of. Why? Because he has produced on the field of play. All media outlets will bash players who have yet to produce on the field, especially those who are billed as the next greatest player at their position of all time.

2) The media figured out a long time ago that making statements that enflame people's anger gets better ratings that intelligent analysis. Statements like the ones you've made in this thread tell the media that bashing TT will improve their ratings by getting people to talk about their article. If you want ESPN, as well the other media outlet, to stop bashing TT; then you need to stop talking about what ESPN writes.

Kurt warner was winning superbowls before they could destroy him... although he was destroyed early in his career and actually moved up from arena leagues...

the point is TT hasnt even HAD A CHANCE to show what he has and they are running him out of town... of course when he gets a chance they will have to go die in a fire and ****. thats why they are trying to kill TT BEFORE he has a chance... cuz if he gets that chance its all over but the crying for the "experts"... remember now... its not like TT has had 4 int games and stunk up the joint... every opportunity was taken advantage of. so again why all the hate?

[Northman]

Well yeah, college performance does matter to a certain extent, like how badly we'd want to draft a player. Andrew Luck is a good example of that. But I meant once that player is on the Broncos, they have to prove themselves as a Bronco player in the NFL.

Absolutely.

[Bullgator]

#7 EARNED being put on a pedestal with stilts by the Bronco fans for what he DID for the Broncos - I am sure that he was put on a pedestal with stilts by the Stanford fans - TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS Gator fans have put Tebow on a pedestal with stilts, which Tebow DEFINITELY earned. However, as of today, Tebow has NOT done anything yet for Bronco fans to put him on a pedestal with stilts.

Thats exactly my point... my point is that dont tell me that ive have put him on some undeserved pedestal... if i have him on there its because he earned it... he has EARNED my opinions. so dont act like im some crazy zealot. and dont feed me some bullshit that merril streep is hating on tebow because of me being unreasonable. its his(and the media) hate that is unreasonable, not my fanhood.

[Northman]

Tell that to the guys he rushed for 200 yards and 3 TDs on in just 3 games...



Well, just like you cant take too much into stats you cant too much in from that game either.

1) The Raiders are the Raiders. They are just as inconsistent if not worse than us when it comes to pulling chokejobs.

2) As Derek Anderson will tell you, when no one has film on you they dont know how to defend you.

Tebow caught teams off guard last year and probably still would if he started this year. But, i can guarantee he wont make a long living in the NFL doing that week in and week out. Once teams have tape on him they will do the same thing other teams did to shut down Vick and Young.

Despite some of the good things that Vick did early in the season last year we also so how easy it was for a team to force Vick into his old habits which hurt his team more than helped it. When the Eagles were at their best last year Vick was passing first and running second. When they fell apart it was the opposite.

[Northman]

so dont act like im some crazy zealot.

But thats how you come across. No matter how much i want Tebow to have a shot some of the stuff you post on here is just so over the top that i just cant take you seriously as an objective football fan, both at the pro level and college level.

Lets also keep in mind that Tebow hasnt gone anywhere yet so the opportunity may still come. But in the end regardless of where Tebow is even if its not with Denver, if he succeeds elsewhere than its Denver's loss. But if he fails, he will just in another long line of QB's who didnt make it. Thats football mate.

[Bullgator]

[x] limited understanding of football and reality.

We shall see. Each minute brings me closer to vindication and the doubters to exposure. Tic-Toc norcal Tic-Toc.

[Jsteve01]

We shall see. Each minute brings me closer to vindication and the doubters to exposure. Tic-Toc norcal Tic-Toc.

there is soooo much hyperbole on both sides of this argument. I believe Tim may end up there some day but he definitely didn't earn a starting job this preseason.

[Bullgator]

there is soooo much hyperbole on both sides of this argument. I believe Tim may end up there some day but he definitely didn't earn a starting job this preseason.

kyle does what he does... look great when there is nothing on the line.... get back to me on 3rd and goal for the win.

Kyle WILL per our usual agreement get gimpy and Tim will come in again...we will see from there.

[Mike]

there is soooo much hyperbole on both sides of this argument. I believe Tim may end up there some day but he definitely didn't earn a starting job this preseason.

While I don't disagree, I believe the deck was stacked against him from the get go. I also believe that reports were used to rosy Orton up a bit and to make Tebow seem worse than he really was. Certainly, Orton looked more polished and earned the starting spot, but in no way, shape, or form was Quinn better than Tebow. And I don't believe that the gap between Orton and Tebow was as large as reported either.

I like Tebow and think he has potential. I hate the way that the local media pundits have torn him down and turned the fanbase against him. I hate that the fans have bought into it and I hate that many of Tebow's diehard fanatics have also played a role in assisting him being torn down.

Tebow is a guy who has potential. He didn't earn the spot and may not ever. But I hope he uses his time to better himself and take advantage of his shot when it comes...and I do believe that it will come some time this year.

But let's not kid ourselves, Tebow has done nothing to deserve recognition or respect in the league. People will be biased against him, but who the hell cares. Tebow needs to make his move when he gets his shot. Let his play shut critics up. Until then, he is just another talented college player attempting to make it in the league.

[vandammage13]

kyle does what he does... look great when there is nothing on the line.... get back to me on 3rd and goal for the win.

Kyle WILL per our usual agreement get gimpy and Tim will come in again...we will see from there.

Our QB situation is Doug Flutie vs Robosack revisited....

[Slick]

a voice of reason.

great post mike.

[Jsteve01]

kyle does what he does... look great when there is nothing on the line.... get back to me on 3rd and goal for the win.

Kyle WILL per our usual agreement get gimpy and Tim will come in again...we will see from there.

but you have to make it into the red zone to worry about that bull

[FanInAZ]

the point is TT hasnt even HAD A CHANCE to show what he has and they are running him out of town...

I totally agree with you. I didn't intend to come across as me believing that TT has failed; only that he has yet to succeed. Unfortunately, this happens to every player who comes into the NFL, especially at the QB position. As I said in previous post in a different thread, the assumption that every QB should be expected to be like Peyton Manning by winning the starting job during his rookie training camp is absurd. That fact that Manning did, and succeeded, speaks volumes about his greatness. However, taking a longer than a year or two to adjust to the NFL doesn't automatically make you a bust. I have no reason doubt that TT may develop into an elite QB. Unfortunately, too many fans have a Peyton Manning or bust mentality that won't allow anyone the time they need to develop.

As I said before about the media, inflammatory remarks get better rating then intelligent analysis. They look for someone to label as a bust in order that they can get everybody’s attention by blasting them. I think that sometimes they'll pick someone to blast simply because no one else has gotten around to blasting them. In this way they're "scooping" the competition by talking about something new, but they do it in the same way that has proven to get better ratings in the past. On the 1 occasion that their proven right; they boast about it as if it’s proof of their prognosticating greatness. On the 20 occasions that their proven wrong; they develop selective amnesia.

[Ravage!!!]

The problem is that NFL OC's don't utilize their skills correctly. They try to make them into pocket passers, which in turn, takes away their most dangerous attributes and forces them to be something they are not. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.



I'll disagree here for a couple reason.

1) Lets not fool ourselves into believign that we see something that the OC's in the NFL don't. ITs not like we see this "not using his abilities" thing while the OCs in the NFL are completely blind.

2) OC, GMs, Owners don't want the QB to be running the ball because that gets them hurt. Hurt QBs don't play, and if they aren't playing, they aren't helping the team win. Some try to say that the big time running QBs don't get hurt. McNabb is constantly hurt. Vick is always hurt. Vince Young was always hurt, Tebow got hurt early in just a pre-season game.

3) The NFL defenders are SOOOO much faster than they are in college. You may face 3-4 NFL caliber players on a single defense when playing in college. The fastest defender on that team, is probably just average in the NFL. DLman are generally better than ANYONE youhad to face, and its not just the single guy that the defense had when playing against them at Alabama. The entire DL is made up of guys good enough to make NFL rosters. LBs are much bigger, stronger, and faster than they are in college, and they take the better angles in the NFL. You aren't going to out run them, and they aren't going to miss you.

Guys that run fantastically in the spread NCAA offenses, all of a sudden don't find those gaping holes while in the NFL. Please don't talk about the big run Tebow had as "proof" to otherwise. Even Steve Bono had a 60yrd + TD run. It happens but you don't want your QB to be exposed to those kinds of hits.

4) The NFL rules are made around passing the ball, not around QBs running the ball. QBs are the faces of the franchise, and the faces of the NFL. The last thing they want is for him to be crunched by the head-hunting LBs looking to "show Tebow the NFL." Passing is where the league is at, and passing is the key to success. A passing QB uses the entire field to keep defenses in check while the running QB actually makes things easier. As soon as the QB starts towards the right/left, they have eliminated half the field from play.

The most important and dangerous attribute is knowing how to move in the pocket to buy time. If you use your legs, use it to buy time. Manning can buy time by sliding and shuffling. It hurts to watch Rivers run the ball. I mean, its almost like physical pain to see it happen...but he buys time as well as anyone. IF (if) running the ball from the pocket is their most dangerous attribute, then they've given the defnse a HUGE advantage.

[Northman]

To really get an idea of how important it is to have a pocket passer (who can scramble when need be) as opposed to a run heavy QB i went back and looked over the past 2 decades in terms of SB winning QB's. Although i wasnt shocked at what i found i even went further and listed the losing QB's. Aside from 2 cases every other QB who played in those big games was a premier passer who looked to pass first and run second. And the two cases i mentioned are guys who ran a lot in college but once they got to the NFL became very good passers in their own right despite losing the big game. I think this just shows that no current player is even close to revolutionizing the QB position.

Super Bowl winners:

Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson *
Tom Brady
Trent Dilfer *

Kurt Warner
John Elway
John Elway
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Steve Young
Troy Aikman
Troy Aikman
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Montana

* Both players had tremendous defenses but were still pocket passing QB's.

Super Bowl losers:

Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Kurt Warner
Tom Brady
Rex Grossman
Matt Hassleback
Donavan McNabb **
Jake Delhomme
Kurt Warner
Kerry Collins

Steve McNair **
Chris Chandler
Brett Favre
Drew Bledsoe
Neil O'Donnell
Stan Humphries
Jim Kelly
Jim Kelly
Jim Kelly
Jim Kelly
John Elway

** As mentioned above, both guys were pretty big runners in college but learned to adapt to the NFL as pass first QB's.


For me, i hope that Tebow will learn to adapt his playing and use his running skill and athleticism as a secondary outlet for when things break down. I still think we need to see him in more games before writing him off but the proof is in the pudding that this is a passing league and if you look at those lists except for a couple of names it is heavily favored with elite QB's not only for the winners but the losers as well.

[Northman]

I'll disagree here for a couple reason.

1) Lets not fool ourselves into believign that we see something that the OC's in the NFL don't. ITs not like we see this "not using his abilities" thing while the OCs in the NFL are completely blind.

2) OC, GMs, Owners don't want the QB to be running the ball because that gets them hurt. Hurt QBs don't play, and if they aren't playing, they aren't helping the team win. Some try to say that the big time running QBs don't get hurt. McNabb is constantly hurt. Vick is always hurt. Vince Young was always hurt, Tebow got hurt early in just a pre-season game.

3) The NFL defenders are SOOOO much faster than they are in college. You may face 3-4 NFL caliber players on a single defense when playing in college. The fastest defender on that team, is probably just average in the NFL. DLman are generally better than ANYONE youhad to face, and its not just the single guy that the defense had when playing against them at Alabama. The entire DL is made up of guys good enough to make NFL rosters. LBs are much bigger, stronger, and faster than they are in college, and they take the better angles in the NFL. You aren't going to out run them, and they aren't going to miss you.

Guys that run fantastically in the spread NCAA offenses, all of a sudden don't find those gaping holes while in the NFL. Please don't talk about the big run Tebow had as "proof" to otherwise. Even Steve Bono had a 60yrd + TD run. It happens but you don't want your QB to be exposed to those kinds of hits.

4) The NFL rules are made around passing the ball, not around QBs running the ball. QBs are the faces of the franchise, and the faces of the NFL. The last thing they want is for him to be crunched by the head-hunting LBs looking to "show Tebow the NFL." Passing is where the league is at, and passing is the key to success. A passing QB uses the entire field to keep defenses in check while the running QB actually makes things easier. As soon as the QB starts towards the right/left, they have eliminated half the field from play.

The most important and dangerous attribute is knowing how to move in the pocket to buy time. If you use your legs, use it to buy time. Manning can buy time by sliding and shuffling. It hurts to watch Rivers run the ball. I mean, its almost like physical pain to see it happen...but he buys time as well as anyone. IF (if) running the ball from the pocket is their most dangerous attribute, then they've given the defnse a HUGE advantage.

Well said Rav, and i will only add to the point #3 that this is why you can only take what is done in college at face value. The talent level goes up a lot once a player hits the NFL. For a guy like Weber, despite being on the practice squad he still managed to beat out "tons" of college QB's who would of loved to be in his place even now. Run first QB's will not survive in the NFL doing what they did in college. And it doesnt matter how big they are, (i forget who that lard ass was from Kentucky a few years ago was but he comes to mind all of a sudden) the guys on the other side are bigger and stronger.

Im all for Tebow succeeding in the NFL and would love to see him as the Denver starter but he really does need to let go of that pipe dream of running for countless yards any given sunday. Its not going to happen and he wont have a long career if that is the way he chooses to go.

[NightTerror218]

To really get an idea of how important it is to have a pocket passer (who can scramble when need be) as opposed to a run heavy QB i went back and looked over the past 2 decades in terms of SB winning QB's. Although i wasnt shocked at what i found i even went further and listed the losing QB's. Aside from 2 cases every other QB who played in those big games was a premier passer who looked to pass first and run second. And the two cases i mentioned are guys who ran a lot in college but once they got to the NFL became very good passers in their own right despite losing the big game. I think this just shows that no current player is even close to revolutionizing the QB position.

Super Bowl winners:

Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson *
Tom Brady
Trent Dilfer *

Kurt Warner
John Elway
John Elway
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Steve Young
Troy Aikman
Troy Aikman
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Montana

* Both players had tremendous defenses but were still pocket passing QB's.

Super Bowl losers:

Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Kurt Warner
Tom Brady
Rex Grossman
Matt Hassleback
Donavan McNabb **
Jake Delhomme
Kurt Warner
Kerry Collins

Steve McNair **
Chris Chandler
Brett Favre
Drew Bledsoe
Neil O'Donnell
Stan Humphries
Jim Kelly
Jim Kelly
Jim Kelly
Jim Kelly
John Elway

** As mentioned above, both guys were pretty big runners in college but learned to adapt to the NFL as pass first QB's.


For me, i hope that Tebow will learn to adapt his playing and use his running skill and athleticism as a secondary outlet for when things break down. I still think we need to see him in more games before writing him off but the proof is in the pudding that this is a passing league and if you look at those lists except for a couple of names it is heavily favored with elite QB's not only for the winners but the losers as well.

Tebow stood in pocket well against AZ with high school cheerleaders blocking college pass rushers.

[Northman]

Tebow stood in pocket well against AZ with high school cheerleaders blocking college pass rushers.

Sure. Which is why i want to see him with the starters.

[NightTerror218]

Well said Rav, and i will only add to the point #3 that this is why you can only take what is done in college at face value. The talent level goes up a lot once a player hits the NFL. For a guy like Weber, despite being on the practice squad he still managed to beat out "tons" of college QB's who would of loved to be in his place even now. Run first QB's will not survive in the NFL doing what they did in college. And it doesnt matter how big they are, (i forget who that lard ass was from Kentucky a few years ago was but he comes to mind all of a sudden) the guys on the other side are bigger and stronger.

Im all for Tebow succeeding in the NFL and would love to see him as the Denver starter but he really does need to let go of that pipe dream of running for countless yards any given sunday. Its not going to happen and he wont have a long career if that is the way he chooses to go.


I would hope Tebow could turn into Aaron Rodgers style player.....he is a QB who uses his legs to run when he has too and he is good at it. But he is a confident pocket passer and accurate.

[Northman]

I would hope Tebow could turn into Aaron Rodgers style player.....he is a QB who uses his legs to run when he has too and he is good at it. But he is a confident pocket passer and accurate.


Lets hope so.

[Jsteve01]

I would hope Tebow could turn into Aaron Rodgers style player.....he is a QB who uses his legs to run when he has too and he is good at it. But he is a confident pocket passer and accurate.


If he turns into Aaron Rogers with those intangibles, the Broncos win 4 Super Bowls during his career. We can only hope

[GEM]

Tebow is the backup. The quicker some accept this, the more enjoyable their Broncos experience will be.

I was ardent about him starting after last season. He spent his offseason making underwear commercials, promoting a book instead of promoting the things that would make him the starter. I love the guy, but he didn't do what it took to win the position. Therefore, game over. Maybe one day, sooner or later, he will be the starter, but right now, he isn't. Time to move on and invest my time and energy on the person who is starting for the Denver Broncos. Go Kyle!

[slim]

Tebow is the backup. The quicker some accept this, the more enjoyable their Broncos experience will be.

I was ardent about him starting after last season. He spent his offseason making underwear commercials, promoting a book instead of promoting the things that would make him the starter. I love the guy, but he didn't do what it took to win the position. Therefore, game over. Maybe one day, sooner or later, he will be the starter, but right now, he isn't. Time to move on and invest my time and energy on the person who is starting for the Denver Broncos. Go Kyle!

Yeah, for a guy that fancies himself a hard worker, he seems to have really dropped the ball in the off season. Maybe he should have hired a QB coach to work with him (like Quinn did), instead of all the other crap he was involved in.

[GEM]

Yeah, for a guy that fancies himself a hard worker, he seems to have really dropped the ball in the off season. Maybe he should have hired a QB coach to work with him (like Quinn did), instead of all the other crap he was involved in.

Least he could have done is gone down and circumcised Urban Meyer for letting him go that long without telling him that it wouldn't produce on the NFL level. :lol:

[I Eat Staples]

We shall see. Each minute brings me closer to vindication and the doubters to exposure. Tic-Toc norcal Tic-Toc.

What??? :laugh:

Its looking worse and worse for Tebow, he's not even the starter.

[Lancane]

Tebow is the backup. The quicker some accept this, the more enjoyable their Broncos experience will be.

I was ardent about him starting after last season. He spent his offseason making underwear commercials, promoting a book instead of promoting the things that would make him the starter. I love the guy, but he didn't do what it took to win the position. Therefore, game over. Maybe one day, sooner or later, he will be the starter, but right now, he isn't. Time to move on and invest my time and energy on the person who is starting for the Denver Broncos. Go Kyle!

But people won't accept it, the majority doesn't accept Kyle Orton and that is the problem, there will be some who will support him because they like him, some who will support him because he's the starter, but the majority will never support him again. I tried last year and I saw a quitter...it's not about Tebow, I don't really care if Tebow succeeds or not, it's up to him to do enough to reach his own goal. What I care about is the long-term impact for this organization, I know we aren't going to do all that well this season - when you know that the team is still a ways off from actually competing then you hope that they develop or add the pieces that will allow them to do so - do any of us really want to be the next Miami, Cincinnati, Detroit, Cleveland or Oakland of the NFL? I will support the team, but not the starting quarterback. Because the quarterback is such a well regarded position with the Denver fans the debate will rage on until Orton's replaced and someone better takes the helm that's just the reality of it.
;)

[NightTerror218]

But people won't accept it, the majority doesn't accept Kyle Orton and that is the problem, there will be some who will support him because they like him, some who will support him because he's the starter, but the majority will never support him again. I tried last year and I saw a quitter...it's not about Tebow, I don't really care if Tebow succeeds or not, it's up to him to do enough to reach his own goal. What I care about is the long-term impact for this organization, I know we aren't going to do all that well this season - when you know that the team is still a ways off from actually competing then you hope that they develop or add the pieces that will allow them to do so - do any of us really want to be the next Miami, Cincinnati, Detroit, Cleveland or Oakland of the NFL? I will support the team, but not the starting quarterback. Because the quarterback is such a well regarded position with the Denver fans the debate will rage on until Orton's replaced and someone better takes the helm that's just the reality of it.
;)


I for one will not support him till he proves himself on 3rd down, red zone, and attempts to win over fans. I will never boo him or cheer against him as long as he is on the field for us. I just hope for better then him. I dont see him scoring much for us. I dont see him throw huge yards or a ton of TDs this season. He is now a QB in a running system. He will forced to throw more in areas he is not great at. Between 20s, 3rd and short will all be mostly running. Redzone will be throwing more on 3rd downs and Fox will try to punch it in with RBs on most downs.