2010 draft, where would we be now?

[ogplife]

Im gonna start out by saying hindight is 20/20 and DT/Tebow are my two favorite players on the team. I am a big believer that first and second round picks should all be starting and good players from day one (year 2 is acceptable for qbs).I know many teams can look back at a draft and say what if, but I feel we especially have to look back at that draft because of the decisions we made. We had 4 picks in the first two rounds (counting the A. Smith pick). We took a raw qb, a raw wr, and a tackle projected to play guard, thus a raw guard. I am not sold on Beadles at all, I believe Tebow will eventually be a good, SB quality, starting QB (and I believe he should be the starter now), I believed Thomas would be great one day, but the jury is out due to the injury.

Assuming we missed on one of those 4 picks, could we have been SB contenders today, if we drafted 3 NFL ready players in 2010 (and not wasted the pick).

[MOtorboat]

No.

[Lancane]

Im gonna start out by saying hindight is 20/20 and DT/Tebow are my two favorite players on the team. I am a big believer that first and second round picks should all be starting and good players from day one (year 2 is acceptable for qbs).I know many teams can look back at a draft and say what if, but I feel we especially have to look back at that draft because of the decisions we made. We had 4 picks in the first two rounds (counting the A. Smith pick). We took a raw qb, a raw wr, and a tackle projected to play guard, thus a raw guard. I am not sold on Beadles at all, I believe Tebow will eventually be a good, SB quality, starting QB (and I believe he should be the starter now), I believed Thomas would be great one day, but the jury is out due to the injury.

Assuming we missed on one of those 4 picks, could we have been SB contenders today, if we drafted 3 NFL ready players in 2010 (and not wasted the pick).

They could all be considered poor picks. In the 2009 NFL Draft we had the ability to move anywhere on the boards, the same could be said for the 2010 NFL Draft, McDaniels had already showed his ineptitude regarding the evaluation of talent, I will not linger on both since your thread pertains to the 2010 draft, but it is something to keep in mind. Now, let's look at this logically...we drafted a project receiver who seems to have become injury prone since the draft and has on the field production of someone drafted in the sixth round, pretty sad when a third round selected wide receiver drafted by the same team the same year has been more productive overall. Dez Bryant who is a better receiver and more pro-ready has already been more productive though people were concerned about character issues. So it's fair to say that Bryant would have already been a solid number two making us far better, now what if we would have gone differently by taking Dan Williams or Devin McCourty instead of wasting a pick on Cox later, we still would have Decker who's been more productive then Thomas. As to Tim Tebow, he might not see the field for another season after this one, if then. He was and is a project quarterback, McDaniels took two first round projects which most teams would say is a no-no, it hurts the team far more then helps. We could have waited and took McCoy for far less and he has shown to be more NFL ready then Tebow, which means we wouldn't have had to use all those picks to climb up and we could have selected Washington, Joseph, Houston or Kindel, and Beadles...well, when you have Duccasse, Brown and Asamoah still available and you take him over them, then it's speaks for itself.

[Agent of Orange]

You shouldnt do this to yourself.

[Tned]

Im gonna start out by saying hindight is 20/20 and DT/Tebow are my two favorite players on the team. I am a big believer that first and second round picks should all be starting and good players from day one (year 2 is acceptable for qbs).I know many teams can look back at a draft and say what if, but I feel we especially have to look back at that draft because of the decisions we made. We had 4 picks in the first two rounds (counting the A. Smith pick). We took a raw qb, a raw wr, and a tackle projected to play guard, thus a raw guard. I am not sold on Beadles at all, I believe Tebow will eventually be a good, SB quality, starting QB (and I believe he should be the starter now), I believed Thomas would be great one day, but the jury is out due to the injury.

Assuming we missed on one of those 4 picks, could we have been SB contenders today, if we drafted 3 NFL ready players in 2010 (and not wasted the pick).

If you want to play "what if" games, why limit it to the 2010 draft and try and undo the damage that McDaniels did via that draft.

Instead, why not back up to March of '09.

Cutler would be QB.
Marshall would be WR opposite Lloyd and Royal
Peyton Hillis would be RB
Orakpo and Dumerville would have been your book end rushers.
The TE that lead the league in yards per reception would be your pass catching TE.

That's just where we would be if we hadn't traded away our QB, had personal issues of some type with a RB and WR, and had picked the best player, biggest need in the first round. From there, the changes start

[ogplife]

If you want to play "what if" games, why limit it to the 2010 draft and try and undo the damage that McDaniels did via that draft.

Instead, why not back up to March of '09.

Cutler would be QB.
Marshall would be WR opposite Lloyd and Royal
Peyton Hillis would be RB
Orakpo and Dumerville would have been your book end rushers.
The TE that lead the league in yards per reception would be your pass catching TE.

That's just where we would be if we hadn't traded away our QB, had personal issues of some type with a RB and WR, and had picked the best player, biggest need in the first round. From there, the changes start

Im glad Cutler and Marshall are gone, indifferent about Scheffler. Hillis was a bad deal. My goal was not to talk about drafting player x, instead of player z. It was more NFL ready players in 2010 (and not wasting the 4th pick). Many, many GM's would not have taken those three players when we did. Just fact. I am a huge fan of both DT and Tebow. I enjoyed watching them grow, but I guess I am in the minority for thinking things could be different, if we had a different philosophy with those picks.

[ogplife]

You shouldnt do this to yourself.

Its just a forum. When people disagree, I still get my 3 meals, a good night of sleep, and my paycheck Thursday. Its all good.

[Agent of Orange]

Its just a forum. When people disagree, I still get my 3 meals, a good night of sleep, and my paycheck Thursday. Its all good.

Yeah, but you still have to live inside yourself with all the torment.

[Tned]

Im glad Cutler and Marshall are gone, indifferent about Scheffler. Hillis was a bad deal. My goal was not to talk about drafting player x, instead of player z. It was more NFL ready players in 2010 (and not wasting the 4th pick). Many, many GM's would not have taken those three players when we did. Just fact. I am a huge fan of both DT and Tebow. I enjoyed watching them grow, but I guess I am in the minority for thinking things could be different, if we had a different philosophy with those picks.

I just don't get the logic of "McDaniels botched the 20xx draft, but all of the moves he made before that were right on."

My problem is that the philosophy with those picks was in line with his overall philosiphy, so why look at just those picks and say most GM's wouldn't have done it. It was widely reported that most GM's, if not all, would not have made the Cutler trade. While the Marshall trade wasn't as bad, it was clear that McDaniels created a public pissing contest to get to that point.

So, if we presume that the 2009 moves were good, and that strategy was sound, then in that case, I have to say there is nothing wrong with his 2010 draft picks.

[Northman]

Im glad Cutler and Marshall are gone, indifferent about Scheffler. Hillis was a bad deal. My goal was not to talk about drafting player x, instead of player z. It was more NFL ready players in 2010 (and not wasting the 4th pick). Many, many GM's would not have taken those three players when we did. Just fact. I am a huge fan of both DT and Tebow. I enjoyed watching them grow, but I guess I am in the minority for thinking things could be different, if we had a different philosophy with those picks.


Well, wait a minute. You've brought up the idea that would we be a contender and had Cutler and Marshall still been here the answer would be yes. If you under this delusion that we would be a contender just based off the 2010 draft your sorely mistaken. This team was closer to being a contender in 08' than it was in 2010.

As to the 2010 daft, had McD not moved up to get Tebow there were rumblings that Buffalo wanted him. So had Denver passed "hoping" to get him later they may have missed on him. If Denver doesnt move up to get a guy that you said you really like than the draft changes dramatically at that point.

[Tned]

Well, wait a minute. You've brought up the idea that would we be a contender and had Cutler and Marshall still been here the answer would be yes. If you under this delusion that we would be a contender just based off the 2010 draft your sorely mistaken. This team was closer to being a contender in 08' than it was in 2010.

As to the 2010 daft, had McD not moved up to get Tebow there were rumblings that Buffalo wanted him. So had Denver passed "hoping" to get him later they may have missed on him. If Denver doesnt move up to get a guy that you said you really like than the draft changes dramatically at that point.

I remain, to this day and more than likely to a day next week, new month or next year, in shock at how people that have come around to realizing that McDaniels was a train wreck when it comes to player/personnel decisions, still hold on to some form of "yea, but Cutler whined his way out of town" or "we are better off without Cutler, we didn't need someone with that attitude" or whatever.

In order to reach those conclusions, you have to buy hook, line and sinker into what McDaniels said about "the player" and what went down, and discount the fact that virtually every GM, ex-player and talking head that voiced an opinion on the subject roundly denounced McDaniels and the Broncos for trading "the player."

[ogplife]

Well, wait a minute. You've brought up the idea that would we be a contender and had Cutler and Marshall still been here the answer would be yes. If you under this delusion that we would be a contender just based off the 2010 draft your sorely mistaken. This team was closer to being a contender in 08' than it was in 2010.

As to the 2010 daft, had McD not moved up to get Tebow there were rumblings that Buffalo wanted him. So had Denver passed "hoping" to get him later they may have missed on him. If Denver doesnt move up to get a guy that you said you really like than the draft changes dramatically at that point.

I like Tebow and DT, but I do wonder where we would be today if we drafted differently. I am not upset about the picks, but me adopting Broncos means nothing. I am a Broncos fan first.

I feel their theory was "we are re-building, we can wait for these guys to develop", but I think it has been proven that NFL teams can be turned around really fast. Just wondering where we would be today if the philosophy was different. Not knocking the decisions (execpt the Smith trade). It depends on how people look at it. I think if we took 3 of our 22 starters and improved them, we would be better today obviously, maybe SB contenders, not sure, but interested to see what others think. Some people feel we are 8 players away. I respect that... as for Cutler and Marshall. I don't believe any team lead by those two guys could ever win a SB. Don't really want to go there though. Thats not what this thread is about.

[DenBronx]

I would have taken Dez Bryant over Thomas.
Brain Orakpo would have been taken over Moreno.
Clay Matthews over Ayers.
Rey Mualuga over Alphonso.
Shonne Green over McBath

That's my hindsight 20/20 but Dez, Orakpo, Mauluga and Green were all in my mocks anyway. I still wouldnt have picked Ayers and knew alot more about Matthews due to watching USC here in CA every Sat. I wanted Patrick Chung pretty bad too.

Tebow....no one knows if Buffalo would have traded up to get him and no one in the NFL thought he would ever go in the 1st. In hindsight we could have waited on him or just picked up Colt McCoy.

But, honestly I don't know why it's so hard to see true talent and the need on this football team. You trade a top 5 WR then you would of course think it would be a priority to replace him right? Dez was the best WR prospect in the 1st. You dont pass up talent like that for an injured WR....you just dont do it.


But I could go further back when we picked Jarvis Moss in 2008. I remember Mayock saying congratulations Denver you can now pick up LB Beason to help the middle. I was so stoked about it then we picked...Jarvis freakin Moss.

[Tned]

But, honestly I don't know why it's so hard to see true talent and the need on this football team. You trade a top 5 WR then you would of course think it would be a priority to replace him right? Dez was the best WR prospect in the 1st. You dont pass up talent like that for an injured WR....you just dont do it.


The thinking at the time was that he had dumped a talented WR with character issues (Marshall), and that McD would have taken a lot of heat for replacing him with a talented WR w/character issues, if he had taken Bryant.

[Nomad]

Yep! What if we would have added Ngata to the defense in 06 and the pieces we have now!

[Northman]

I like Tebow and DT, but I do wonder where we would be today if we drafted differently. I am not upset about the picks, but me adopting Broncos means nothing. I am a Broncos fan first.

I feel their theory was "we are re-building, we can wait for these guys to develop", but I think it has been proven that NFL teams can be turned around really fast. Just wondering where we would be today if the philosophy was different. Not knocking the decisions (execpt the Smith trade). It depends on how people look at it. I think if we took 3 of our 22 starters and improved them, we would be better today obviously, maybe SB contenders, not sure, but interested to see what others think. Some people feel we are 8 players away. I respect that... as for Cutler and Marshall. I don't believe any team lead by those two guys could ever win a SB. Don't really want to go there though. Thats not what this thread is about.


Ok, i see where you are going with this. So based off just the 2010 season even if we had gone in a different direction drafting wise we would still not be a contender. Just missing too many elements and a lot of depth. While we will improve this year there is still a lot of work to be done. The last couple of years have set us back a lot unfortuantely.

[Dzone]

If every one of those #1 and #2 draft picks that Mcdaniels wasted were starters and some were All pro level, then it would be a totally different world, a different team. Sometimes its just fun to imagine what could have been if instead of the bad luck in the draft, we had had a streak of good luck.. The bad luck started when we let an idiot be in charge of the draft.
Alphonso Smith for a pick that IIRC turned out to be like #12 overall...brutal.

[Dzone]

, and that McD would have taken a lot of heat for replacing him with a talented WR w/character issues, if he had taken Bryant.

Ya know, he would have been hangin out with his College teammate Perrish Cox. That could have been utterly disastrous. Maybe Dez Bryant would have gotten into serious trouble had he come here. Cox was just a bad influence.I hope he moves away from Denver.

[Tned]

Yep! What if we would have added Ngata to the defense in 06 and the pieces we have now!

FWIW, I just asked Ted Sundquist about Ngata, and here's what he said:


RT @Ted_Sundquist: @BroncosForums Perfect, that's who I thought you'd ask. Orig pick was 15, Ngata projected higher. Plan was to jump to get QB if possible.

RT @Ted_Sundquist: @BroncosForums Ngata was "rejected" for us by coaching staff. Can't really go into details as to why though.

I followed up by asking him if he thought that coaches/FO believed that DT was a position more easily filled by Vet/Role/FA players than other positions, and he responded with:


RT @Ted_Sundquist: @BroncosForums That's the goal. '06 was a playoff caliber team, but gave QB to Cutler too soon. '07 is entirely different story internally.

On continued passing over of DT with Von Miller over Dareus, he responded with:


RT @Ted_Sundquist: @BroncosForums that was tough for me too. Can do so much w/ LB that can rush, flexibility. Also grt kid. My teammate T. DeRuyter coached him

[Nomad]

Well, Tned, obviously can't fix the past but the Ravens coaching staff was smarter than the BRONCOS at the time! It's been proven on the field. Hopefully Von Miller works out better and becomes an elite player both in the passing and run game!

[Slick]

Ngata was rejected by the coaching staff???

Ffs.

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[Tned]

Well, Tned, obviously can't fix the past but the Ravens coaching staff was smarter than the BRONCOS at the time! It's been proven on the field. Hopefully Von Miller works out better and becomes an elite player both in the passing and run game!


Ngata was rejected by the coaching staff???

Ffs.

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Yep, as you saw, he said he wouldn't go into why, but he was ruled out, even being available to the Broncos.

[Northman]

Ngata was rejected by the coaching staff???

Ffs.

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That truly has me baffled as well.

[Lancane]

Well, Tned, obviously can't fix the past but the Ravens coaching staff was smarter than the BRONCOS at the time! It's been proven on the field. Hopefully Von Miller works out better and becomes an elite player both in the passing and run game!

That's opinionative Nomad, come on...we have no idea what made them reject him as a viable draft pick, hell he could have told them at the Combine for all we know "That he simply wouldn't play for the Broncos", we are talking about a staff which in three years drafted Jay Cutler, Tony Scheffler, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Spencer Larson and Peyton Hillis...that's not too damn shabby IMHO. We're they great, no but since then look at our drafts, not until this year have we had such solid drafts, and neither had multiple first round picks either.

[Nomad]

That's opinionative Nomad, come on...we have no idea what made them reject him as a viable draft pick, hell he could have told them at the Combine for all we know "That he simply wouldn't play for the Broncos", we are talking about a staff which in three years drafted Jay Cutler, Tony Scheffler, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Spencer Larson and Peyton Hillis...that's not too damn shabby IMHO. We're they great, no but since then look at our drafts, not until this year have we had such solid drafts, and neither had multiple first round picks either.

3 time All Pro isn't an opinion, it's a fact that the BRONCOS missed on a defensive gem!

[Northman]

That's opinionative Nomad, come on...we have no idea what made them reject him as a viable draft pick, hell he could have told them at the Combine for all we know "That he simply wouldn't play for the Broncos", we are talking about a staff which in three years drafted Jay Cutler, Tony Scheffler, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Spencer Larson and Peyton Hillis...that's not too damn shabby IMHO. We're they great, no but since then look at our drafts, not until this year have we had such solid drafts, and neither had multiple first round picks either.


While i agree on your point about whether or not Bmore was smarter than Denver i disagree on your explanation. I highly doubt that Ngata would of told Denver at that time (following a AFCCG) that he wouldnt play for them. But if you look at the Ravens drafting vs Denver's for the last decade its pretty obvious who has been more successful at it. Shanny didnt even start getting better until 06' (at least as a collective) and a good portion of that credit should go to the Goodmans. Bottom line is i think Shanahan wanted to upgrade the QB first and worry about Dline last. Was it the right decision? In hindsight probably not because it eventually cost him his job.

[G_Money]

I would have taken Dez Bryant over Thomas.
Brain Orakpo would have been taken over Moreno.
Clay Matthews over Ayers.
Rey Mualuga over Alphonso.
Shonne Green over McBath

That's my hindsight 20/20 but Dez, Orakpo, Mauluga and Green were all in my mocks anyway. I still wouldnt have picked Ayers and knew alot more about Matthews due to watching USC here in CA every Sat. I wanted Patrick Chung pretty bad too.

Tebow....no one knows if Buffalo would have traded up to get him and no one in the NFL thought he would ever go in the 1st. In hindsight we could have waited on him or just picked up Colt McCoy.

But, honestly I don't know why it's so hard to see true talent and the need on this football team. You trade a top 5 WR then you would of course think it would be a priority to replace him right? Dez was the best WR prospect in the 1st. You dont pass up talent like that for an injured WR....you just dont do it.


But I could go further back when we picked Jarvis Moss in 2008. I remember Mayock saying congratulations Denver you can now pick up LB Beason to help the middle. I was so stoked about it then we picked...Jarvis freakin Moss.

I wouldn't have taken Dez, but I didn't want DeSean Jackson either on draft day. I didn't believe in Orakpo or Ayers but wanted Matthews, Greene or McCoy, Laurinaitis over Maualuga.

First 4 rounds of 2009 for me would have looked something like:


1 - C Alex Mack (huge fan in college, and we needed a center who could start immediately)
1 - LB Clay Matthews (because he's terrific, and everyone in his family plays the right way)

---insert me cussing about Chung, Laurinaitis, Maualuga all going before my 3rd pick because I do NOT trade my 2010 first rounder)---

2 - DT/DE Sen'Derrick Marks (we needed a DL and he would have fallen quite far at this point - a good DT in a 4-3 but can work as a 3-4 DE)

2 - RB Shonn Greene (if I'm trading back into the 2nd because I didn't take Shady McCoy instead of Marks [my preference], it's because I planned to take Greene before the Jets could).

4 - CB D.J. Moore (because I really liked him and he'd fallen forever at this point, and I thought he and Alphonso Smith were similar players).

4 - WR Johnny Knox (he was in my mock at the time and man could he fly)

With 2010 (assuming the same draft positions but with our other 1st rounder) it would be:


1 - OG Mike Iupati (high for a guard, but I loved him, and with Harriss' RT performance I wouldn't have gone for Bulaga).

1 - DT/NT Dan Williams (to get us the Nose Tackle we needed for the 3-4)

1 - SS Earl Thomas (dunno when he would have been drafted if we didn't give the Seahawks the chance, so I'll pretend he's here even though I wouldn't have traded 3 picks for this slot)

2 - LB Brandon Spikes (loved his potential in college)

3 - QB Colt McCoy (because he fits the offense we were running as well as anyone and we needed a QB)

3 - WR Eric Decker (I liked him in college and we needed a good wideout or two)

You can go back through some of the forums to hear me talking about all those players if you like. They were on my radar for sure. We'd look a little different coming in to the 2011 draft.

The 2009 draft was packed with talent. I'm so aggravated we blew that.

But as others have said, this is just rubbing salt in the wound. Players were there to be had but we botched the whole process.

Now we're just hoping 2011 is a different draft for us. Von Miller looks great so far, Franklin will play somewhere on the line, I still like Carter, Moore has looked better than I expected off the bat, Irving has a shot at depth at least with starting still out there for him, Julius Jones might be the Scheffler replacement a young QB desperately needs as a mismatch in the middle of the field...

It's just annoying since we could already have that Pro Bowl pass-rushing LB, that aggressive middle LB, that safety, a better RB corps, a better DL, a similar WR corps, a better OL, a more conventional QB of the future AND all this year's draft picks to further improve.

Two years of idiocy in the draft hurts. Now we still need to figure out how to climb out of that hole and which of Josh's picks can contribute for us.

So far, it looks like "not many."

~G

[Ravage!!!]

While i agree on your point about whether or not Bmore was smarter than Denver i disagree on your explanation. I highly doubt that Ngata would of told Denver at that time (following a AFCCG) that he wouldnt play for them. But if you look at the Ravens drafting vs Denver's for the last decade its pretty obvious who has been more successful at it. Shanny didnt even start getting better until 06' (at least as a collective) and a good portion of that credit should go to the Goodmans. Bottom line is i think Shanahan wanted to upgrade the QB first and worry about Dline last. Was it the right decision? In hindsight probably not because it eventually cost him his job.

I don't think that cost him his job because he drafted Cutler. Bowlen was a Cutler fan, and having that presence behind center is much more valuable than a DT.

But I do agree with you that baltimore has had much more success than Denver in drafting over the last decade.

[Nomad]

While i agree on your point about whether or not Bmore was smarter than Denver i disagree on your explanation. I highly doubt that Ngata would of told Denver at that time (following a AFCCG) that he wouldnt play for them. But if you look at the Ravens drafting vs Denver's for the last decade its pretty obvious who has been more successful at it. Shanny didnt even start getting better until 06' (at least as a collective) and a good portion of that credit should go to the Goodmans. Bottom line is i think Shanahan wanted to upgrade the QB first and worry about Dline last. Was it the right decision? In hindsight probably not because it eventually cost him his job.

This will always be my 'what if' and BRONCOS added Ngata and those pieces Cane mentioned.

[Northman]

1 - C Alex Mack (huge fan in college, and we needed a center who could start immediately)
1 - LB Clay Matthews (because he's terrific, and everyone in his family plays the right way)

---insert me cussing about Chung, Laurinaitis, Maualuga all going before my 3rd pick because I do NOT trade my 2010 first rounder)---

2 - DT/DE Sen'Derrick Marks (we needed a DL and he would have fallen quite far at this point - a good DT in a 4-3 but can work as a 3-4 DE)

2 - RB Shonn Greene (if I'm trading back into the 2nd because I didn't take Shady McCoy instead of Marks [my preference], it's because I planned to take Greene before the Jets could).

4 - CB D.J. Moore (because I really liked him and he'd fallen forever at this point, and I thought he and Alphonso Smith were similar players).

4 - WR Johnny Knox (he was in my mock at the time and man could he fly)


1 - OG Mike Iupati (high for a guard, but I loved him, and with Harriss' RT performance I wouldn't have gone for Bulaga).

1 - DT/NT Dan Williams (to get us the Nose Tackle we needed for the 3-4)

1 - SS Earl Thomas (dunno when he would have been drafted if we didn't give the Seahawks the chance, so I'll pretend he's here even though I wouldn't have traded 3 picks for this slot)

2 - LB Brandon Spikes (loved his potential in college)

3 - QB Colt McCoy (because he fits the offense we were running as well as anyone and we needed a QB)

3 - WR Eric Decker (I liked him in college and we needed a good wideout or two)

~G


Wow, that would of been AWESOME but then again that is like a dream team. The sad thing is though once one player is gone it changes the draft entirely so who knows if all those guys would be available when it came time but my god tha tis a nice list.

[Northman]

I don't think that cost him his job because he drafted Cutler. Bowlen was a Cutler fan, and having that presence behind center is much more valuable than a DT.

But I do agree with you that baltimore has had much more success than Denver in drafting over the last decade.


Well, drafting Cutler didnt get him fired directly. At the time i was one crowing about taking Cutler and was 100% behind the move. Problem is, when Shanahan failed to fix the defense and kept playing musical chairs with DC's THAT ultimately cost him his job. One could argue had he taken Ngata and gone a little more defensive rather than offensive he last few years in Denver might have turned out quite differently, maybe even giving him more time. Certainly food for thought.

[G_Money]

But what busts me up is that it WAS a dream to get all those talented guys, but we knew they were talented at the time and available at all our slots and watched the Broncos go for the Richard Quinns and Alphonso Smiths of the world in the first 2 rounds instead.

At least with the 2011 draft I could go, "Okay, I had all those guys on my board and even some with good value later since I thought they'd go higher." The fact that they absolutely ignored the DT position annoys me, since it's such a slow-growing position to become successful in the NFL, but the guys they DID draft I thought had a decent amount of talent.

If we get 3 starters and three backups out of the draft it'll be hard to knock it. That's a really good draft.

Just make sure to do that every year - and at some point, draft a big hoss for the middle, would you?

~G

[Tned]

Julius Jones might be the Scheffler replacement a young QB desperately needs as a mismatch in the middle of the field...
~G

I know Hoge isn't anyone's favorite guy right now, but he Tweeted this out this morning:


RT @merrilhoge Most fantasy drafts are over but if you still need a sleeper at TE pick up Tony Scheffler, he could be the wild card to this Lions offense


Now, they have a pretty good TE in Pettigrew, so Scheffler isn't likely to be featured, but the fact is in Denver he created that over the middle/down the seem mismatch you talk about and he had some downright gaudy YPC numbers here in Denver.

[Lancane]

Well, drafting Cutler didnt get him fired directly. At the time i was one crowing about taking Cutler and was 100% behind the move. Problem is, when Shanahan failed to fix the defense and kept playing musical chairs with DC's THAT ultimately cost him his job. One could argue had he taken Ngata and gone a little more defensive rather than offensive he last few years in Denver might have turned out quite differently, maybe even giving him more time. Certainly food for thought.

Now if we would have given Shanahan another couple years and he decided to bring Nolan on since they've worked together before, could you imagine the team we would have had with the Goodmans' still in the front office?

:D

[Northman]

Now if we would have given Shanahan another couple years and he decided to bring Nolan on since they've worked together before, could you imagine the team we would have had with the Goodmans' still in the front office?

:D

Dont remind me. Of course, the kicker would of been getting Nolan in the first place. lol

Shanny was so headstrong about Coyer it just made me sick.

[G_Money]

Now if we would have given Shanahan another couple years and he decided to bring Nolan on since they've worked together before, could you imagine the team we would have had with the Goodmans' still in the front office?

:D

*rubs head in pain* (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=424742&postcount=6)


Mike Nolan has roots here and is better than any DC we've had in the last 20 years.

If Shanny wanted to bring him in right now, it's probably the best possible choice. I would certainly call and find out.

Like, before giving the post-game speech even.

~G

10/27/2008.

If only... :tsk:

~G

[DenBronx]

The thinking at the time was that he had dumped a talented WR with character issues (Marshall), and that McD would have taken a lot of heat for replacing him with a talented WR w/character issues, if he had taken Bryant.


I hear what you're saying but,

That kind of thinking bites you in the ass. If I'm head coach I go for talent and not a guy with a history of injuries because I would like to stay employed.


It really comes down to Joshs ego. If he couldnt get along with our fantastic 4 (Hillis, Shef, Cut, Marsh) then he clearly wasnt ready to be a head coach in the NFL. Ive seen HC's and childish athletes do well together before. I just think Josh thought he was the cats meow and he wasnt.

[Tned]

I hear what you're saying but,

That kind of thinking bites you in the ass. If I'm head coach I go for talent and not a guy with a history of injuries because I would like to stay employed.


It really comes down to Joshs ego. If he couldnt get along with our fantastic 4 (Hillis, Shef, Cut, Marsh) then he clearly wasnt ready to be a head coach in the NFL. Ive seen HC's and childish athletes do well together before. I just think Josh thought he was the cats meow and he wasnt.

This was always my problem with the "he asked for a trade" or "he whined his way out of town"arguments.

The head coach should say "you want pay? Get your ass on the field and play!"

[TXBRONC]

Im glad Cutler and Marshall are gone, indifferent about Scheffler. Hillis was a bad deal. My goal was not to talk about drafting player x, instead of player z. It was more NFL ready players in 2010 (and not wasting the 4th pick). Many, many GM's would not have taken those three players when we did. Just fact. I am a huge fan of both DT and Tebow. I enjoyed watching them grow, but I guess I am in the minority for thinking things could be different, if we had a different philosophy with those picks.

Going with scenario you've presented I would say absolutely not. The 2010 draft doesn't exists in a vacuum. What happened from 2009 matters. There were of lot of knowledgeable people that were critical of taking Tebow in the first round but there were also a lot of people who said it was foolish of McDaniels to dismantle the offensive side of the ball. By doing that he created more holes by getting rid of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis. So even if we had chosen different players in 2010 it's very unlikely we would be a Super Bowl contender today.

[DenBronx]

I wouldn't have taken Dez, but I didn't want DeSean Jackson either on draft day. I didn't believe in Orakpo or Ayers but wanted Matthews, Greene or McCoy, Laurinaitis over Maualuga.

First 4 rounds of 2009 for me would have looked something like:



With 2010 (assuming the same draft positions but with our other 1st rounder) it would be:



You can go back through some of the forums to hear me talking about all those players if you like. They were on my radar for sure. We'd look a little different coming in to the 2011 draft.

The 2009 draft was packed with talent. I'm so aggravated we blew that.

But as others have said, this is just rubbing salt in the wound. Players were there to be had but we botched the whole process.

Now we're just hoping 2011 is a different draft for us. Von Miller looks great so far, Franklin will play somewhere on the line, I still like Carter, Moore has looked better than I expected off the bat, Irving has a shot at depth at least with starting still out there for him, Julius Jones might be the Scheffler replacement a young QB desperately needs as a mismatch in the middle of the field...

It's just annoying since we could already have that Pro Bowl pass-rushing LB, that aggressive middle LB, that safety, a better RB corps, a better DL, a similar WR corps, a better OL, a more conventional QB of the future AND all this year's draft picks to further improve.

Two years of idiocy in the draft hurts. Now we still need to figure out how to climb out of that hole and which of Josh's picks can contribute for us.

So far, it looks like "not many."

~G

It's frustrating because some of us fans could have nailed those drafts and somehow the "experts" blow it. 2007-2010 drafts would have been a cake walk.

And yes, I had Laurainitis in one of my mocks as well.
Here is one before dumbass McDaniels shipped out Cutler.
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29605&highlight=mock
After dealing Cutler I still wanted Shone Green but wanted two stud players on D. My thinking was an MLB and an OLB.

[DenBronx]

This was always my problem with the "he asked for a trade" or "he whiffed his way out of town"arguments.

The head coach should say "you want pay? Get your ass on the field and play!"

I know I'm digging up old **** that doesnt even matter now. But I remember that Bowlen said in his press conference after letting Shanahan go that Cutler "was the man now." Basically saying he was the face of the franchise.

After hiring Josh it all went downhill and fast!

Its like he targeted right away our young nucleous of talent on offense. Heck even our good long snapper he cut and brought in million dollar Paxton.

I mean the list of moves he did is mind boggling....absolutely mind boggling. How do you even begin to explain it? The Goodmans? Jeremy Bates? Mike Nolan? I was super affraid he would find a way to send out Elvis, Clady or Royal as well.

Bowlen must have had many sleepless nights. I know I did....Pepto was my best friend for a while. Hope Bowlen has learn a valuable lesson.

[G_Money]

If he learned it, he's already forgotten it. Sadly.

Hopefully Elway learned something from watching it - and has a machete ready to hack of a limb or two from Ellis if he tries to stick his hand in the mix again.

~G

[muse]

I hate how the Hillis trade costs us a pick this year. Yeah, the guy's not the most intelligent in the world, but his talent on tape was undeniable. I didn't mind the Scheff trade that much - mismatch in the passing game but his blocking was pretty awful. Whether Shanny resigns him or not is a question mark. On the other side if it, our team was pretty dysfunctional at the end of 08. Completely broken D, prospect of Uncle Bob running the D for another season. The O was decent, but a long way from perfect (lack of running game/redzone troubles/turnovers. And there has been a bit of dissent towards Cutler from former Broncos. Often there's smoke without fire, and considering he's had to have people defend him and his attitude at two different clubs points to something. That said, McD's drafting is inexcusable. I would've been fine with the trades if we hadn't wasted our 09 draft. I still have hopes for the '10 draft and I thought he moved down well. And I would've taken Thomas over Bryant too. You can't trade a guy - ostensibly because of off field stuff - and replace him with another headcase. I'm just glad that Ellis wasn't the primary mover on the last HC search - sounds like Pat did the interviews personally.

[Tned]

I hate how the Hillis trade costs us a pick this year. Yeah, the guy's not the most intelligent in the world, but his talent on tape was undeniable.

...

I'm just glad that Ellis wasn't the primary mover on the last HC search - sounds like Pat did the interviews personally.

Two comments on the snippets above.

First, in addition to the 6th round pick Cleveland got in 2011 with Hillis, they get a 2012 conditional pick. I have never read any details about how high that pick could be, but unless Quinn somehow takes over the starting job early this year, it will most likely be another 6th round pick.

Second, you do know that it was widely reported that McDaniels was hired because Bowlen fell in love with him in the first interview, and Ellis was sent back out just to wrap up the final details and get McDaniels signed.

[TXBRONC]

Two comments on the snippets above.

First, in addition to the 6th round pick Cleveland got in 2011 with Hillis, they get a 2012 conditional pick. I have never read any details about how high that pick could be, but unless Quinn somehow takes over the starting job early this year, it will most likely be another 6th round pick.

Second, you do know that it was widely reported that McDaniels was hired because Bowlen fell in love with him in the first interview, and Ellis was sent back out just to wrap up the final details and get McDaniels signed.

As far as we know Bowlen has always been personally involved with the hiring of the head coach except Dan Reeves who was in Denver when Bowlen bought the team.

[Tned]

As far as we know Bowlen has always been personally involved with the hiring of the head coach except Dan Reeves who was in Denver when Bowlen bought the team.

I don't really understand why, but many fans feel the need to make Xanders and Ellis scapegoats. Ellis for the hiring of McDaniels (completely false based on the info fans have) and giving McDaniels too much control, and Xanders for not stopping McDaniels or going public with some sort of "I don't agree with the moves McDaniels is making, but I'm powerless to stop them" statement.

I honestly don't get it.

[TXBRONC]

I don't really understand why, but many fans feel the need to make Xanders and Ellis scapegoats. Ellis for the hiring of McDaniels (completely false based on the info fans have) and giving McDaniels too much control, and Xanders for not stopping McDaniels or going public with some sort of "I don't agree with the moves McDaniels is making, but I'm powerless to stop them" statement.

I honestly don't get it.

I don't get it either.