Broncos waiver wire / post cut down moves

[Tned]

The first confirmed one.


RT @PostBroncos: Can confirm broncos have signed DB jonathan wilhite, former patriot.

Full List to be added to as confirmations come in:

Signed DB jonathan wilhite
Signed CB Jonathan Wilhite, waived S Darcel McBath.

[Tned]

And another:


RT @MaxBroncos: RT @HBalzer721: Denver signed CB Jonathan Wilhite, waived S Darcel McBath.

[DenBronx]

And another: waived S Darcel McBath

another one bites the dust for the joshy era.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

another one bites the dust for the joshy era.

Except his replacement is another ex Pat... :lol:

[Tned]

Some info on the Wilhite signing:


RT @PostBroncos: Blog: Broncos sign former Pats cornerback Jonathan Wilhite http://dpo.st/nyImFG #broncos

[silkamilkamonico]

jonathan wilhite wont make it through the season. nothing more than rounding out our cb depth.

[LTC Pain]

jonathan wilhite wont make it through the season. nothing more than rounding out our cb depth.

Why? I'm not familiar with Wilhite?

[G_Money]

Not gonna miss McBath. Was unhappy on draft day with Bruton and McBath, and Bruton is very lucky to be such a good gunner.

Kyle McCarthy is now hanging out on the PS in case we need that extra safety (Dawkins gets injured, whatever) so McBath can go.

~G

[BigDaddyBronco]

At least Wilhite has some games under his belt. Might be a good 4th CB.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Where Wilhite especially helps the Broncos is he can play the nickel. Currently, veteran Champ Bailey has been shifted to the nickel position.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18826381

[G_Money]

At least Wilhite has some games under his belt. Might be a good 4th CB.

Right. He's got some game experience and can be an emergency nickel if something happens to Goodman and we need Vaughn to slide over to the starting corner spot.

I don't remember Fox's defense playing a lot of dime, so he probably won't see the field much otherwise - and we have cover safeties. I could see us using Moore as the dime cover guy and playing Carter at safety rather than bringing Wilhite into the game, but we'll see.

~G

[PAINTERDAVE]

Good to know McCarthey made the Practice Squad...
him and Weber...

[ChampWJ]

This is really odd. We were predicted to be really active on the waiver wire and if we had done so that information should have been out there by now. Surely we're not gonna stand pat with just one move and filling the practice squad right? :confused:

[PAINTERDAVE]

This is really odd. We were predicted to be really active on the waiver wire and if we had done so that information should have been out there by now. Surely we're not gonna stand pat with just one move and filling the practice squad right? :confused:

Seems odd for sure.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

It's possible that we're negotiating with FAs that aren't on waivers like Derek Landri or Anthony Hargrove. Most of the DTs are UFAs, not waivers.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Just saw this:


Broncos don’t place one waiver claim: blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/0… via @denverpost
Tweet Button • 9/4/11 4:54 PM

I don't know how accurate it is...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

For every player waived, that the Broncos claim, then then need to cut someone. Possibly that is the problem, or they are not done yet.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

For every player waived, that the Broncos claim, thet then need to cut someone. Possibly that is the problem, or they are not done yet.

The only thing it can be is that they are courting FA vets instead of waiver wire players. I can't imagine they look at our current DT depth and are okay with it... Maybe I'm wrong, but I hope not.

[Nomad]

The only thing it can be is that they are courting FA vets instead of waiver wire players. I can't imagine they look at our current DT depth and are okay with it... Maybe I'm wrong, but I hope not.

I hope not either!

[Slick]

Amen, hp,nomad,g, and big daddy.

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[G_Money]

The only thing it can be is that they are courting FA vets instead of waiver wire players. I can't imagine they look at our current DT depth and are okay with it... Maybe I'm wrong, but I hope not.

If we think we have the best DT combo we can find...ugh...

~G

[PAINTERDAVE]

If we think we have the best DT combo we can find...ugh...

~G

It would be mind boggling if they add no depth on BOTH lines...

That means we wil be countin gon those guys we saw playing in Arizona.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Still have a 2nd waive from players cut today.
Could see a claim come in tomorrow.


Maybe there are better players there...
guys who made the 53 but dont make this cut..

like we kept McBath.. then cut him.

[Dzone]

Is he related to Gerald?

[spikerman]

Is it time for us fans to donate money so that the Broncos will actually spend the cash to try to get better?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Although the Broncos were No. 2 in the waiver claim order, it’s no surprise they passed on snagging a player off waivers this weekend. Had the Broncos placed a claim on a waived player, they would have not only received the player but the player’s existing contract.

The Broncos did sign former New England Patriots’ cornerback Jonathan Wilhite but he was waived last week and had already cleared, allowing the Broncos to sign him as a free agent. Mst likely, the Broncos signed Wilhire at around the $600,000 salary minimum.

rest - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/09/04/broncos-dont-place-one-waiver-claim/9293/

[Slick]

rest - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/09/04/broncos-dont-place-one-waiver-claim/9293/

Understandable. Nobody fantastic got cut.

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[UnderArmour]

I think we'll claim Everette Brown and waive Derrick Harvey tomorrow. Harvey showed almost nothing this preseason and it seemed to be a surprise that he stuck on the roster. We'll see though.

[G_Money]

There should be several signings still coming. Should be. Fingers crossed. As Dave said, signing no one for EITHER line after that atrocious 4th preseason game would be shocking.

Can't look at that and feel like we'd be okay after an injury to an offensive lineman, y'know? Especially since Orton needs his jersey to stay clean in order to be useful. Quinn vs. Tebow in that game made it very clear what happens to a player who needs to be comfortable when that comfort is removed.

No way do we assume perfect health there, right?

~G

[HORSEPOWER 56]

There should be several signings still coming. Should be. Fingers crossed. As Dave said, signing no one for EITHER line after that atrocious 4th preseason game would be shocking.

Can't look at that and feel like we'd be okay after an injury to an offensive lineman, y'know? Especially since Orton needs his jersey to stay clean in order to be useful. Quinn vs. Tebow in that game made it very clear what happens to a player who needs to be comfortable when that comfort is removed.

No way do we assume perfect health there, right?

~G

I'd like to think that's the reason we kept so many DTs on the roster, fodder to cut if we find someone better to replace them. I can't imagine we can't find someone better than Mitch Unrein or Ryan McBean.

[I Eat Staples]

Our CB depth sucks.

[G_Money]

Our depth sucks, period.

We've got some WRs, some LBs and safeties (though one of the safeties is stashed on the PS). Other than that...yowtch.

At least our QB position is 4 deep - very rotational position, that one.

~G

[Lancane]

If you look at the cuts from yesterday, the most promising talent were those that did not fall under the waiver wire criteria, so they're free agents.

[LTC Pain]

Read this at SI just now:

Carolina has reportedly waived defensive end Everette Brown, according to Sirius NFL radio. The Panthers traded a future No. 1 pick in 2009 (yes,the same thing Denver did with flameout cornerback Alphonso Smith that year) to take Brown in the second round. It will be interesting to see if the Denver Broncos (coached by former Carolina coach John Fox) claim Brown. Denver has the No. 2 claiming priority in the league behind Carolina. Thus, the Broncos will get first crack at Brown. For a team looking for the right mix on defense, I could see the Broncos making this move if Fox believes Brown can play.

[dogfish]

This is really odd. We were predicted to be really active on the waiver wire and if we had done so that information should have been out there by now. Surely we're not gonna stand pat with just one move and filling the practice squad right? :confused:

when suh wasn't waived, it threw their strategy into confusion. . . .

[Slick]

Maybe, if the contract we claim with him isnt ridiculous.

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[dogfish]

it's funny-- everrette brown was the guy i really wanted when we traded up for alphonso, and a couple years later they're both history. . . i wouldn't mind giving him a second chance. . . .

[Slick]

Maybe, if the contract we claim with him isnt ridiculous.

He must be real bad if theyre waiving him already.

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[dogfish]

Maybe, if the contract we claim with him isnt ridiculous.

He must be real bad if theyre waiving him already.

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we can wait and see if he passes through waivers, if they don't want the contract. . . .

[Dzone]

Sounds like E Brown has been as big a flameout as Robert Ayers. Ayers gets one more chance to start and live up to his pick, so far he has looked dreadful.
If Fox no longer likes Brown, then he must have totally plummeted.

[CoachChaz]

Keep in mind...there are advantages to signing a player AFTER the first week of the season. If they wait til then, they dont have to worry about a roster bonus. Happens a lot

[dogfish]

Keep in mind...there are advantages to signing a player AFTER the first week of the season. If they wait til then, they dont have to worry about a roster bonus. Happens a lot

IIRC, with vets, waiting also prevents you from having to guarantee their contract for the year. . . of course, you also take the risk of someone else signing them in the meantime. . .

it's not as though there are any must-haves at this point, though. . .

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Maybe, if the contract we claim with him isnt ridiculous.

He must be real bad if theyre waiving him already.

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Maybe, but Ron Rivera is switching to a 3-4 defense in Carolina so maybe Brown wasn't a fit? He's closer to Doom's size and is a pretty good edge rusher, not much of a run stopper, though.

[UnderArmour]

Maybe, but Ron Rivera is switching to a 3-4 defense in Carolina so maybe Brown wasn't a fit? He's closer to Doom's size and is a pretty good edge rusher, not much of a run stopper, though.

Ron Rivera isn't switching to a 3-4 in Carolina. He is keeping it a 4-3, which is where most of his coaching experience is in anyways.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Ron Rivera isn't switching to a 3-4 in Carolina. He is keeping it a 4-3, which is where most of his coaching experience is in anyways.

You're probably right, I had heard otherwise somewhere early on in camp. Maybe he changed his mind.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Our depth sucks, period.

We've got some WRs, some LBs and safeties (though one of the safeties is stashed on the PS). Other than that...yowtch.

At least our QB position is 4 deep - very rotational position, that one.

~G

All about timing... we could have been one short...

PFT is reporting Peyton needs another surgery so if that had been two weeks ago Quinn might have been gone...

[Northman]

Maybe, if the contract we claim with him isnt ridiculous.

He must be real bad if theyre waiving him already.

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Yea, thats my concern.

[Jsteve01]

Derek Landri anyone? We had him in and Fox is familiar with him

[broken12]

Igor orlasvzkee spelling

[Dzone]

Our depth might suck, but things could be worse. KC is having to start Tyler Palko at QB

[chazoe60]

Our depth might suck, but things could be worse. KC is having to start Tyler Palko at QB

What happened to Cassel?

[Ravage!!!]

What happened to Cassel?

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/04/3121505/cassel-may-miss-chiefs-opener.html

[chazoe60]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/04/3121505/cassel-may-miss-chiefs-opener.html
I guess the Chiefs witnessed how putrid a QB can play when he has a rib injury :laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

I guess the Chiefs witnessed how putrid a QB can play when he has a rib injury :laugh:

:lol: Man, I bet top is allllll over this!

[pnbronco]

I just heard Fox on the radio of The Fan and didn't sound like they were interested in anyone else. I'm so confused after seeing the AZ game.....:confused:

Do you think they will wait to see who is out there to try a new contract instead of taking over the existing one and skip the bonus thing?????

[Northman]

KC screwed the pooch playing Cassell too long in the last preseason game.

[Tned]

I just heard Fox on the radio of The Fan and didn't sound like they were interested in anyone else. I'm so confused after seeing the AZ game.....:confused:

Do you think they will wait to see who is out there to try a new contract instead of taking over the existing one and skip the bonus thing?????

I think he addressed it in today's presser, and Andrew Mason wrote an article on it today at www.maxdenver.com.

[chazoe60]

I just heard Fox on the radio of The Fan and didn't sound like they were interested in anyone else. I'm so confused after seeing the AZ game.....:confused:

Do you think they will wait to see who is out there to try a new contract instead of taking over the existing one and skip the bonus thing?????

Some people think there is no way we'll be bad enough to be in the Luck sweepstakes but I tell you what, a couple injuries and with our horrible depth we'll not only be in the running but we may be the favorites.

[Canmore]

Some people think there is no way we'll be bad enough to be in the Luck sweepstakes but I tell you what, a couple injuries and with our horrible depth we'll not only be in the running but we may be the favorites.

Yes, a couple of injuries to some key players and I see us in the suck for Luck sweepstakes. Favorites? Maybe, maybe not, but definitely a player.

[pnbronco]

“There was only a few guys that we had interest in, and at the end of the day it wasn’t enough interest to retrain a guy (to replace) a guy that’s already had five weeks of training in our systems, both offense, defense and special teams,” Fox said after Monday’s practice.

So I did hear it right. We are so thin it just seems scary to me and I find it a kind of strange statement in that it's only 5 weeks. Not like years past when you are looking at 5 months. Oh well.....I only help that O line can stay healthy, the DT's heal fast..... and that they are playing poker and getting a couple of more guys with new contracts.

[Lancane]

Some people think there is no way we'll be bad enough to be in the Luck sweepstakes but I tell you what, a couple injuries and with our horrible depth we'll not only be in the running but we may be the favorites.

There is several analytical minds that have us in the sweepstakes without injury, so you may be dead on with your assessment of it!

[Lancane]

“There was only a few guys that we had interest in, and at the end of the day it wasn’t enough interest to retrain a guy (to replace) a guy that’s already had five weeks of training in our systems, both offense, defense and special teams,” Fox said after Monday’s practice.

So I did hear it right. We are so thin it just seems scary to me and I find it a kind of strange statement in that it's only 5 weeks. Not like years past when you are looking at 5 months. Oh well.....I only help that O line can stay healthy, the DT's heal fast..... and that they are playing poker and getting a couple of more guys with new contracts.

Sadly, we sometimes forget that Fox was fired recently and one of the reasons was his continuous oversight of the offense, but more so was his outright bullheadedness, which should ring bells because that's the issue we had with Shanahan.

I completely agree with you PN, we're so thin we look anorexic! We're so thin that Virgil Green is not only a backup tight end but also the backup fullback!

[chazoe60]

Sadly, we sometimes forget that Fox was fired recently and one of the reasons was his continuous oversight of the offense, but more so was his outright bullheadedness, which should ring bells because that's the issue we had with Shanahan.

I completely agree with you PN, we're so thin we look anorexic! We're so thin that Virgil Green is not only a backup tight end but also the backup fullback!

We're so thin that Russ Hochstein made the team. Our second team OL was the worst unit I've seen in a preseason in a very long time. They all sucked.

I can't believe we didn't go after Gurode and demote Beadles to second team. That would have helped depth tremeandously as Beadles can fill in at four spots in a pinch and be serviceable. I honestly don't think we have a single servicable backuo O-Lineman on the entire roster.

But hey, at least we're $20 mil under the cap!

[G_Money]

/cosign

We had the opportunities to improve our fortunes for 2011 in FA, in waiver cuts, in a number of ways, and chose not to do them. We'll see what kind of strategy that turns out to be - other than a money saving one.

~G

[vettesplus]

Is it time for us fans to donate money so that the Broncos will actually spend the cash to try to get better?


are you out of your flipping mind, donate cash to the million and billionaires....:lol:

[SOCALORADO.]

/cosign

We had the opportunities to improve our fortunes for 2011 in FA, in waiver cuts, in a number of ways, and chose not to do them. We'll see what kind of strategy that turns out to be - other than a money saving one.

~G

$$$, you do realize that this team aint goin to the playoffs right?!
I mean your fingers are crossed, and your hoping for players who couldnt make a squad somewhere else.
Your getting desperate dude.

[Jsteve01]

$$$, you do realize that this team aint goin to the playoffs right?!
I mean your fingers are crossed, and your hoping for players who couldnt make a squad somewhere else.
Your getting desperate dude.

that's the hilarious part about where this franchise is at. I've talked to multiple people who are just flat pissed that we haven't nabbed somebody else's trash for our active roster or practice squad.

[SOCALORADO.]

that's the hilarious part about where this franchise is at. I've talked to multiple people who are just flat pissed that we haven't nabbed somebody else's trash for our active roster or practice squad.

Pathetic, isnt it?

[G_Money]

$$$, you do realize that this team aint goin to the playoffs right?!
I mean your fingers are crossed, and your hoping for players who couldnt make a squad somewhere else.
Your getting desperate dude.

I predicted 6 wins for em - I'm pretty sure I know they're not going to the playoffs.

I'm not looking for starters, I'm looking for better backups than we have. The team is very thin, and if we plan to compete for anything NEXT year we need to be deeper for sure.

Why wait til next year to get started on depth? Players cut and waived by teams that ARE deep should absolutely be looked at here. You don't get depth by accident - you do it by systematically replacing the weak links on your team by any means available.

We ignored the available means. Maybe Fox is right and those backups needed the 5 precious weeks of camp and pre-season to be useful or worth the chance. Personally, I think there were several players out there who would be better on day one than some of the guys who are still on this roster and had the 5 week advantage.

It has nothing to do with desperation - we had an opportunity to improve the overall talent pool and did not do it. I think that's a mistake.

~G

[Jsteve01]

I predicted 6 wins for em - I'm pretty sure I know they're not going to the playoffs.

I'm not looking for starters, I'm looking for better backups than we have. The team is very thin, and if we plan to compete for anything NEXT year we need to be deeper for sure.

Why wait til next year to get started on depth? Players cut and waived by teams that ARE deep should absolutely be looked at here. You don't get depth by accident - you do it by systematically replacing the weak links on your team by any means available.

We ignored the available means. Maybe Fox is right and those backups needed the 5 precious weeks of camp and pre-season to be useful or worth the chance. Personally, I think there were several players out there who would be better on day one than some of the guys who are still on this roster and had the 5 week advantage.

It has nothing to do with desperation - we had an opportunity to improve the overall talent pool and did not do it. I think that's a mistake.

~G

which untenured players should we have placed a claim on that would be better than what we have now?

[SOCALORADO.]

I predicted 6 wins for em - I'm pretty sure I know they're not going to the playoffs.

I'm not looking for starters, I'm looking for better backups than we have. The team is very thin, and if we plan to compete for anything NEXT year we need to be deeper for sure.

Why wait til next year to get started on depth? Players cut and waived by teams that ARE deep should absolutely be looked at here. You don't get depth by accident - you do it by systematically replacing the weak links on your team by any means available.

We ignored the available means. Maybe Fox is right and those backups needed the 5 precious weeks of camp and pre-season to be useful or worth the chance. Personally, I think there were several players out there who would be better on day one than some of the guys who are still on this roster and had the 5 week advantage.

It has nothing to do with desperation - we had an opportunity to improve the overall talent pool and did not do it. I think that's a mistake.

~G

Doesnt look like the FO or HC share your opinion.
Sounds desperate.
Just sayin...

[PAINTERDAVE]

There is several analytical minds that have us in the sweepstakes without injury, so you may be dead on with your assessment of it!

Today.. Legwold reported that Quinn replaces Orton in case of injury.

The way Quinn played against Arizona.... YIKES.

If Orton goes down we are ASSURED to win the Luck Sweepstakes.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Today.. Legwold reported that Quinn replaces Orton in case of injury.

The way Quinn played against Arizona.... YIKES.

If Orton goes down we are ASSURED to win the Luck Sweepstakes.
I don't know, Miami, Carolina, the Bengals are all really bad.

If Quinn plays, he'll be yanked after one game.

[SOCALORADO.]

I don't know, Miami, Carolina, the Bengals are all really bad.

If Quinn plays, he'll be yanked after one game.

Why would Quinn get yanked? So Weber could come in?

[Northman]

Doesnt look like the FO or HC share your opinion.
Sounds desperate.
Just sayin...

McDaniels didnt share a lot of the fans opinions either. :lol:

[PAINTERDAVE]

I don't know, Miami, Carolina, the Bengals are all really bad.

If Quinn plays, he'll be yanked after one game.

Quite a group we are ranked among.... lol

[Ziggy]

I don't know, Miami, Carolina, the Bengals are all really bad.

If Quinn plays, he'll be yanked after one game.

The Seahawks and Bills are in that group also. I think we're out of the running for the #1 draft pick, but nowhere near competing for the division title. EFX has seriously upgraded the starters, but done nothing to adress the backups outside of D tackle and safety position. Ty Warren, Broderick Bunkley, Marcus Thomas, and big Vick are worlds ahead of where we were last season at that position. Injuries may negate those moves, however.

They must like the young FB. I don't know that I've ever seen the Broncos use a PS spot for one before. I'm still hoping that they upgrade there during the season. Oline depth is a joke. They did well with Fells. The man can block an oncoming tractor trailer. LB depth is shaky, but has loads of potential. CB depth is weak. As much as I like Hunter, having Harvey backing up Doom is a major concern. This team is in big trouble if the injuries start to mount up.

[Nomad]

I don't know, Miami, Carolina, the Bengals are all really bad.
If Quinn plays, he'll be yanked after one game.

And the BRONCOS still won't beat Miami in Miami! What are the BRONCOS 0-8 all time?

[PAINTERDAVE]

And the BRONCOS still won't beat Miami in Miami! What are the BRONCOS 0-8 all time?

And it goes against all popular consensus..
but every year the Bengals seem to play us tough.

I dont wish this..
but it would certainly be no surprise if we started out 0-2.

When I see polls...
there are a lot of folks picking Denver to have 12 or more wins.

Lots of fans in every town with a team..
they ALL have sugar plum dreams right now.

I have NO CLUE what way this team will go.

I think this Raiders game is gonna tell us a LOT about the direction we take.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Why would Quinn get yanked? So Weber could come in?

Maybe they will leave Quinn in so they can draft your flame boi Barkley.

[BigDaddyBronco]

And the BRONCOS still won't beat Miami in Miami! What are the BRONCOS 0-8 all time?

No I think they have one a few games in miami, just none in September.

[Nomad]

No I think they have one a few games in miami, just none in September.

BRONCOS suck against Miami (4-12) with wins only in Denver. BRONCOS did win a Superbowl in Miami:)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?tm1=den&tm2=mia&yr=all

[Northman]

Maybe they will leave Quinn in so they can draft your flame boi Barkley.

:lol:

I dont think we will have a chance to take either but if it comes down to Luck or Barkley i hope we go Luck. Barkley is terrible.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

:lol:

I dont think we will have a chance to take either but if it comes down to Luck or Barkley i hope we go Luck. Barkley is terrible.

:cool: Got your blinders on North??? :D

I grew up a USC fan but I'm not sold on Barkley at all. I've seen enough of him to suspect he'll never be close to a franchise QB and I'll admit there have been times in the past he has looked terrible with his awareness but I'd feel confident in saying he'll be better than Orton! :lol:

So I wouldn't go so far as to say he's terrible... :eek:

[BigDaddyBronco]

:lol:

I dont think we will have a chance to take either but if it comes down to Luck or Barkley i hope we go Luck. Barkley is terrible.

At least he plays in a pro-style offense, it's hard to rate some of these college QB's that play in the shotgun in the spread.

Yea, if we suck, I want us to really suck so we can get Luck. Othwise it's a crap shoot.

[BigDaddyBronco]

BRONCOS suck against Miami (4-12) with wins only in Denver. BRONCOS did win a Superbowl in Miami:)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?tm1=den&tm2=mia&yr=all

Wow. Didn't realize that. It's like the Broncos winning in KC in December. Not going to happen.

[Northman]

:cool: Got your blinders on North??? :D

I grew up a USC fan but I'm not sold on Barkley at all. I've seen enough of him to suspect he'll never be close to a franchise QB and I'll admit there have been times in the past he has looked terrible with his awareness but I'd feel confident in saying he'll be better than Orton! :lol:

So I wouldn't go so far as to say he's terrible... :eek:

It doesnt take much to be better than Orton. But considering how much SoCal pumps up Barkley as the "next best thing" i have to disagree. If we are banking our future on a first round QB next year it better be a guy who isnt just a system QB. :D

[Nomad]

It doesnt take much to be better than Orton. But considering how much SoCal pumps up Barkley as the "next best thing" i have to disagree. If we are banking our future on a first round QB next year it better be a guy who isnt just a system QB. :D

You and Springs are just throwing daggars into SOCAL's heart!:lol:

[Northman]

You and Springs are just throwing daggars into SOCAL's heart!:lol:


He means well but is a bit misguided at times. :beer:

[Tned]

The Seahawks and Bills are in that group also. I think we're out of the running for the #1 draft pick, but nowhere near competing for the division title. EFX has seriously upgraded the starters, but done nothing to adress the backups outside of D tackle and safety position. Ty Warren, Broderick Bunkley, Marcus Thomas, and big Vick are worlds ahead of where we were last season at that position. Injuries may negate those moves, however.

They must like the young FB. I don't know that I've ever seen the Broncos use a PS spot for one before. I'm still hoping that they upgrade there during the season. Oline depth is a joke. They did well with Fells. The man can block an oncoming tractor trailer. LB depth is shaky, but has loads of potential. CB depth is weak. As much as I like Hunter, having Harvey backing up Doom is a major concern. This team is in big trouble if the injuries start to mount up.

Experts don't seem to know what to make of this team. I'm hearing some people that are putting us in the running for Luck, with 4 or 5 wins, or fewer. Others have us more in the .500 range. Some, although I think they were local media, have talked 9-11 wins.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

You and Springs are just throwing daggars into SOCAL's heart!:lol:

:lol:

I need to see more from Barkley this year. He's very accurrate but when he's under pressure that's when the wheels fall off...

Last year the defense was horrible, they couldn't stop anyone. In fairness, they were in the 1st year of transition to Tampa 2. So far it looks better but if the defense can't give the ball back to Barkley then it's going to be another long year.

Hmmm, sounds familiar to Bronco fans... :shocked:

[BigDaddyBronco]

:lol:

I need to see more from Barkley this year. He's very accurrate but when he's under pressure that's when the wheels fall off...

Last year the defense was horrible, they couldn't stop anyone. In fairness, they were in the 1st year of transition to Tampa 2. So far it looks better but if the defense can't give the ball back to Barkley then it's going to be another long year.

Hmmm, sounds familiar to Bronco fans... :shocked:
I was watching some of the game against Minnesota, and he was struggling to be accurate on WR screens. It could have been communication with the WR's, but he was throwing some of the passes off by at least a yard.
we'll see how he does against better teams, but accuracy is the key issue for an NFL QB.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

We're so thin that Russ Hochstein made the team. Our second team OL was the worst unit I've seen in a preseason in a very long time. They all sucked.

I can't believe we didn't go after Gurode and demote Beadles to second team. That would have helped depth tremeandously as Beadles can fill in at four spots in a pinch and be serviceable. I honestly don't think we have a single servicable backuo O-Lineman on the entire roster.

But hey, at least we're $20 mil under the cap!

Your thoughts on Beadles as a versatile backup are valid but seems that would be giving up on him, maybe in another year.

I thought we were 20 mil under last year and were close to cap this year, not that I understand how all that happened.

This brings me back to the arguments over Franklin & Harris. People were fine with Harris being an expensive backup or even an expensive starter over Franklin. Had we done that Franklin would still be starting and we'd still be thin as Harris is out again, with surgery.

I think EFX did all they could on DL depth but were screwed by the short off-season in terms of OL depth.

[Northman]

Experts don't seem to know what to make of this team. I'm hearing some people that are putting us in the running for Luck, with 4 or 5 wins, or fewer. Others have us more in the .500 range. Some, although I think they were local media, have talked 9-11 wins.

With our depth i highly doubt it.

[Tned]

With our depth i highly doubt it.

Agreed, it's unlikely, but if we avoid injuries to the areas where we have huge dropoffs in talent (O-line being the biggest, followed by Doom and Miller specifically), the team might surprise us.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

I was watching some of the game against Minnesota, and he was struggling to be accurate on WR screens. It could have been communication with the WR's, but he was throwing some of the passes off by at least a yard.
we'll see how he does against better teams, but accuracy is the key issue for an NFL QB.

He's always been up & down. He makes a good play then will throw the ball at the feet of a receiver the next play. He's a high energy guy and they are trying to keep him on an even keel.

Haven't looked at the stats but I heard an announcer say he had over 80% in terms of accuracy. The issue seems to be his mental focus.

[SOCALORADO.]

He's always been up & down. He makes a good play then will throw the ball at the feet of a receiver the next play. He's a high energy guy and they are trying to keep him on an even keel.

Haven't looked at the stats but I heard an announcer say he had over 80% in terms of accuracy. The issue seems to be his mental focus.

Yeah....right. He really struggled. I would love to see your definition of a good passing day! LOL!

Matt Barkley 34-45-304 YARDS 3 TDS 0 INT

[BigDaddyBronco]

Yeah....right. He really struggled. I would love to see your definition of a good passing day! LOL!

Matt Barkley 34-45-304 YARDS 3 TDS 0 INT

Settle down Beavis, I said he struggled on throwing WR screens with his accuracy. He got the ball there and the WR caught it, but the WR was out of position often. Isn't a WR screen the easiest pass to throw?

BTW, I don't think Barkley is awful, he is probably a top 10 pick, I just don't think he is in the same caliber as Luck.

[Dzone]

If this team starts out winning, then nobody will care that we were quiet in signing free agents. If we suck this season, there should be some outrage that they didnt sign anyone but Wilhite

[SOCALORADO.]

Settle down Beavis, I said he struggled on throwing WR screens with his accuracy. He got the ball there and the WR caught it, but the WR was out of position often. Isn't a WR screen the easiest pass to throw?

BTW, I don't think Barkley is awful, he is probably a top 10 pick, I just don't think he is in the same caliber as Luck.

I also dont think hes the same calibur as Luck and have stated that here countless times.
However, when you set a School record for completions, score 3 passing TDs, throw for over 300 yards, and there was no running game so you were forced to throw all game yet you didnt throw a pick, i wouldnt say you were struggling my friend.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I also dont think hes the same calibur as Luck and have stated that here countless times.
However, when you set a School record for completions, score 3 passing TDs, throw for over 300 yards, and there was no running game so you were forced to throw all game yet you didnt throw a pick, i wouldnt say you were struggling my friend.

Man your reading comprehension sucks. :D On, one type of throw he sucked. And he still made the completions. But if he does that in the NFL, he'll throw pick 6's. And beating up Minnesota is expected, they were terrible. I'm surprised they barely beat them. I wanted to watch Barkley, but Minnesota was so bad it was painful and I had to change the channel after the first TD.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Yeah....right. He really struggled. I would love to see your definition of a good passing day! LOL!

Matt Barkley 34-45-304 YARDS 3 TDS 0 INT

I didn't say he struggled... His numbers would be even better if his receivers weren't dropping catchable balls...

He moves the chains but he has a tendency to make a mistake after he makes a good play. I want to see him be more consistent over the entire course of a game in the face of increasing pressure from the defense.

He is capable of being dominant but I want to see him string it together before I annoint him...

[Davii]

I'm curious about this whole 20 mil under the cap number I keep seeing. Wasn't one of the stipulations in the new CBA that teams had to spend a minimum, like 95% of the cap?

[BigDaddyBronco]

I'm curious about this whole 20 mil under the cap number I keep seeing. Wasn't one of the stipulations in the new CBA that teams had to spend a minimum, like 95% of the cap?For the first year of the deal it was the league as a whole had to spend 95% of the cap, and that includes signing bonuses BTW which is different than just the yearly cap number.

[slim]

Man, having the second waiver claim really paid off for us.

[Tned]

I'm curious about this whole 20 mil under the cap number I keep seeing. Wasn't one of the stipulations in the new CBA that teams had to spend a minimum, like 95% of the cap?

I'm reading different things, and haven't gotten my hands on an actual copy of the CBA yet.

First, I've read that individual teams don't have to have a floor until 2013, but even then, I think that floor is well below the 95% range.

The league overall has to average those numbers we've seen thrown around, but I don't know how the league overall averages 99% (which I thought 2011 was, or even 95%) if there are so many teams 10-20 million under.

[nevcraw]

all of this goes back (for me) why waste a year with Orton vs. kicking Quinn's and Tebow's tires to see if there is a future QB on the roster and atleast know one must be aquired as soon as humanly possible.
Even if Orton gives a decent a year what will it do to help the future of this team.. nada.. Now next year they will burn another high round spot or multiple on an offensive player to ensure a potential franchise QB vs. plugging in BPA to upgrade the D.

[Hardwired]

Adam Schefter reporting we signed ex-Steelers OL Tony Hills to a 2-year deal.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Adam Schefter reporting we signed ex-Steelers OL Tony Hills to a 2-year deal.


PostBroncos Lindsay Jones
Story on OL changes coming asap on denverpost.com.
4 minutes ago

PostBroncos Lindsay Jones
The Broncos have signed OT Tony Hills. To make room, waived Herb Taylor.
5 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/PostBroncos

[LTC Pain]

http://twitter.com/#!/PostBroncos


Yahoo we got Hillis back! Uh wait, Hills, damn :(:(:(

Anybody know anything about this guy?

[BigDaddyBronco]

There we go, thank God.

[Nomad]

Yahoo we got Hillis back! Uh wait, Hills, damn :(:(:(

Anybody know anything about this guy?

Superbowl experience and winner ! We're heading in the right direction!:elefant:

[LTC Pain]

Superbowl experience and winner ! We're heading in the right direction!:elefant:

Just read on Rotoworld that Hills got a two year contract. Hills is a former 4th round pick and he had been starting at RG for the Steelers in the preseason.

[dogfish]

Yahoo we got Hillis back! Uh wait, Hills, damn :(:(:(

Anybody know anything about this guy?

talented OT prospect from texas, was drafted a year or two ago-- has potential, but IIRC he also had some injury concerns. . . don't know much about him beyond that, but he should at least be worth a look-- we certainly don't have anyone else playable there. . .

[Northman]

all of this goes back (for me) why waste a year with Orton vs. kicking Quinn's and Tebow's tires to see if there is a future QB on the roster and atleast know one must be aquired as soon as humanly possible.
Even if Orton gives a decent a year what will it do to help the future of this team.. nada.. Now next year they will burn another high round spot or multiple on an offensive player to ensure a potential franchise QB vs. plugging in BPA to upgrade the D.

The only line of thinking i can come up with for Fox is that he see's Tebow as the future of the franchise. But that will only mean that we see Timmy struggle a bit next year while he gets some live game action.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Yahoo we got Hillis back! Uh wait, Hills, damn :(:(:(

Anybody know anything about this guy?

"Hills, a fourth-round pick by the Steelers in the 2008 draft, failed to impress during camp despite extended looks at guard"
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d821f1b7d/article/p-kapinos-ot-hills-waived-as-steelers-cut-five-to-reach-53

Maybe we'll keep him as OT b/u since he wasn't bad there in college...
http://news.steelers.com/team/player/88901/

Perhaps he'll be ok, every OL they have (except Pouncey) is at least 315. He got pushed off the tackle when they drafted one of my 3 OT's in Marcus Gilbert in the last draft. He lost the job when he looked terrible in his last preseason game to a guy that weighs 15 lbs more.

[silkamilkamonico]

Too bad the one position we desperately need to become available, Carolina needs that position desperately too.

[Lancane]

The only line of thinking i can come up with for Fox is that he see's Tebow as the future of the franchise. But that will only mean that we see Timmy struggle a bit next year while he gets some live game action.

See I don't get that nor do I agree, it could be that way. But when you have a fan base clamoring to be rid of Orton in the worst way and you believe you have the future quarterback of your team riding pine, I believe you do whatever to make a gain out of the situation and get the future of your team out on the field. Denver could have asked for less regarding Orton, few believed he was worth a second round pick, Miami being one of them. But if Denver would have taken a third or possibly a fourth and another pick, then no matter his price tag I believe the Raiders, Jaguars, Vikings, Titans, Dolphins and so on would have traded for him.

IMHO, I still believe he hasn't earned that moniker, I think Denver will without question draft a quarterback next year and Timmy will have to beat that draftee for the starting position, if he can.

[nevcraw]

The only line of thinking i can come up with for Fox is that he see's Tebow as the future of the franchise. But that will only mean that we see Timmy struggle a bit next year while he gets some live game action.

Hope that's true or as we have said ad naseam it's a waist of a year...

[Northman]

See I don't get that nor do I agree, it could be that way. But when you have a fan base clamoring to be rid of Orton in the worst way and you believe you have the future quarterback of your team riding pine, I believe you do whatever to make a gain out of the situation and get the future of your team out on the field. Denver could have asked for less regarding Orton, few believed he was worth a second round pick, Miami being one of them. But if Denver would have taken a third or possibly a fourth and another pick, then no matter his price tag I believe the Raiders, Jaguars, Vikings, Titans, Dolphins and so on would have traded for him.

IMHO, I still believe he hasn't earned that moniker, I think Denver will without question draft a quarterback next year and Timmy will have to beat that draftee for the starting position, if he can.


:lol:

Well, no offense Lan my buddy but since when has this organization really given a crap about what the fanbase wants? The answer is never. Fact is, Denver believed that Orton was worth more than he really was. The fact that Minny took an aging McNabb and Az took a QB with less starts only tells me the rest of the league didnt believe Orton is that valuable and apparently Miami wasnt willing to sign him to a longterm deal which Orton nixed in the process.

I think the reason that Orton is starting is because a number of reasons,

1) They are trying to save some face. The last thing they want is a disgruntled vet and lockerroom pissing and moaning all year long while Tebow developes in live game action.

2) Orton just flat out has way more experience. If he is a step ahead of Tebow and Quinn there is a good reason for it.

3) Fox is quoted as saying that Orton gives them the best chance to win NOW. Thats telling me that Fox plans on making a run to the playoffs no matter if i see it the same way or not.

4) Both Elway and Fox feel that Tebow isnt ready. So sitting him another year or at the very least until we are out of the playoff race or Orton is injured they figure will do the kid some good.

There's really no reason to take a QB early next year without knowing how Tebow will turn out. Not quite the way i would of handled it personally but if we take another QB early next year i will continue to question the compentency of this organization. If Fox and Elway are not sold on Tebow, get rid of him. Enough dancing around, but if they feel they can make him a FQB than dont spend more quality picks on another QB who may or may not be the answer either. There will be plenty of future QB's to look at if the time comes. But drafting one next year would be a massive mistake at this point in time. The only way i could accept it as a fan would be if they traded Tebow at some point this year or just flat out cut him. Then, taking a QB would make sense.

[Lancane]

Well, no offense Lan my buddy but since when has this organization really given a crap about what the fanbase wants? The answer is never.

No offense taken, but then I would point to McDaniels firing and smile a large shit-eating grin. I think at this point the organization is seriously concerned about what the fans think, that's also why I believe they pulled that shit with the co-no. two quarterbacks, truth is that Quinn should be number two in their eyes but they had to assuage the maddening Tebow fans.


Fact is, Denver believed that Orton was worth more than he really was. The fact that Minny took an aging McNabb and Az took a QB with less starts only tells me the rest of the league didnt believe Orton is that valuable and apparently Miami wasnt willing to sign him to a longterm deal which Orton nixed in the process.

I agree, but I also think teams would have looked at the option harder was the compensation for the Broncos was less then it was.


I think the reason that Orton is starting is because a number of reasons,

1) They are trying to save some face. The last thing they want is a disgruntled vet and lockerroom pissing and moaning all year long while Tebow developes in live game action.

2) Orton just flat out has way more experience. If he is a step ahead of Tebow and Quinn there is a good reason for it.

3) Fox is quoted as saying that Orton gives them the best chance to win NOW. Thats telling me that Fox plans on making a run to the playoffs no matter if i see it the same way or not.

4) Both Elway and Fox feel that Tebow isnt ready. So sitting him another year or at the very least until we are out of the playoff race or Orton is injured they figure will do the kid some good.

1) The first part could very well be...but as to the second, tough shit. They're professional athletes and that was exactly what Lloyd said, that they will play with whom ever they're told to because that is the nature of the business. Could that be the reason or part of it, yes...but if we are that weak willed then maybe getting their asses kicked for the year will make them realize it.

2) Orton does have more experience, but experience doesn't translate to being better as you well know, it's a cheap excuse to block the real meat of the matter, they stated that Tebow would start and then changed their minds...why? I don't think experience is the determining factor, after all then why did Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Ryan and others start over those on the roster with better experience. Fox knew this last year, Claussen no matter how bad he sucked was better then the veteran quarterback with starting experience. To me it's a cheesy bullshit excuse, experience doesn't mean shit in the wake of talent, 'Orlando Franklin' - (cough, cough).

3) Yes, he did say Orton gave him the best chance to win now, what did you expect him to say? Tebow sucks and Orton is a half-wit, but the best option we have to even be successful? I think Elway and Fox are both sound enough mentally to know their chances of winning this season are slim, they believe that's what the fans want to hear.

4) Elway has continually stated that Tebow is a great athlete, a hard worker, a terrific person and leader but not a good quarterback. Fox saying that Tebow isn't ready makes perfect sense, again I wonder what people are hoping for? Brutal honesty?


There's really no reason to take a QB early next year without knowing how Tebow will turn out. Not quite the way i would of handled it personally but if we take another QB early next year i will continue to question the compentency of this organization. If Fox and Elway are not sold on Tebow, get rid of him.

Why waste the potential that he could later bring some return value? If they draft a kid early and Tebow is playing well and earns the starting job then we are stacked with talent, can let Tebow play a year and the rookie sit for the season, then trade Tebow and get compensated and have the true franchise quarterback take the helm. But if Tebow is not the answer then at least they have one who is without wasting a year should Tebow hit the craptastic meter.


Enough dancing around, but if they feel they can make him a FQB than dont spend more quality picks on another QB who may or may not be the answer either. There will be plenty of future QB's to look at if the time comes. But drafting one next year would be a massive mistake at this point in time. The only way i could accept it as a fan would be if they traded Tebow at some point this year or just flat out cut him. Then, taking a QB would make sense.

Taking a quarterback makes perfect sense, especially if they are still riddled with concerns about Tebow. Let's say that Tebow was gone and we had Orton and Quinn under contract, wouldn't it make sense to draft someone? The difference is that you have faith in Tebow and your guessing they do too, but what if they have little faith and feel it's not worth risking the season?

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Thanks for the laugh Lancane... needed one right now. Loved the half wit comment...

Fun read Lan & North...

[Northman]

No offense taken, but then I would point to McDaniels firing and smile a large shit-eating grin.

Well, if you talk to guys like Clay and Turf both those guys wanted him gone after Mcd took a phone call for Cassell. Two years later and after a severe downfall its easy to see why McD's plug was pulled. But many fans wanted him gone long before this past offseason.


I think at this point the organization is seriously concerned about what the fans think, that's also why I believe they pulled that shit with the co-no. two quarterbacks, truth is that Quinn should be number two in their eyes but they had to assuage the maddening Tebow fans.

Well, it could also be that both QB's are closer than some on here predicted. Tebow looked just fine in preseason so it would of been very difficult for Fox and company to sell since Quinn looked so bad in the last preseason game.


1) The first part could very well be...but as to the second, tough shit. They're professional athletes and that was exactly what Lloyd said, that they will play with whom ever they're told to because that is the nature of the business. Could that be the reason or part of it, yes...but if we are that weak willed then maybe getting their asses kicked for the year will make them realize it.

While i agree i dont care how the players feel there is something to be said about losing a lockerroom. We saw that in the Plummer/Cutler fiasco and even a class act like Rod Smith was not pleased with Plummer's benching. And while i feel Lloyd is backing Orton for financial reasons the same cannot be said for the rest of the players who may feel Orton is the best chance to win now.


2) Orton does have more experience, but experience doesn't translate to being better as you well know, it's a cheap excuse to block the real meat of the matter, they stated that Tebow would start and then changed their minds...why? I don't think experience is the determining factor, after all then why did Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Ryan and others start over those on the roster with better experience. Fox knew this last year, Claussen no matter how bad he sucked was better then the veteran quarterback with starting experience. To me it's a cheesy bullshit excuse, experience doesn't mean shit in the wake of talent, 'Orlando Franklin' - (cough, cough).

What changed? I think honestly the circumstances. While Carolina is ready to move on with Newton at the helm i think Fox is more comfortable with Orton and his experience. For me, i think we should be starting Tebow because we are rebuilding. Newton isnt starting in Carolina because they EXPECT to win. He is starting because they are giving him the reps so that two or three years down the road they will be making their run.


3) Yes, he did say Orton gave him the best chance to win now, what did you expect him to say? Tebow sucks and Orton is a half-wit, but the best option we have to even be successful? I think Elway and Fox are both sound enough mentally to know their chances of winning this season are slim, they believe that's what the fans want to hear.

A lot of speculation there though on whether they believe they can win or not. They may actually believe it.


4) Elway has continually stated that Tebow is a great athlete, a hard worker, a terrific person and leader but not a good quarterback. Fox saying that Tebow isn't ready makes perfect sense, again I wonder what people are hoping for? Brutal honesty?

Well, lets clear up something real quick. Elway did say that Tebow wasnt a great QB. But he that as of "right now" he isnt. Elway has also said that with some time and work he can become a good QB. Not too mention, if Tebow was a lost cause there would be NO REASON for Elway to stay during practice and help the kid. If i truly believed a athlete wasnt going to make it as a QB i would not be wasting time trying to help them. Especially a guy in his position where its not even his job to do that.


Why waste the potential that he could later bring some return value? If they draft a kid early and Tebow is playing well and earns the starting job then we are stacked with talent, can let Tebow play a year and the rookie sit for the season, then trade Tebow and get compensated and have the true franchise quarterback take the helm. But if Tebow is not the answer then at least they have one who is without wasting a year should Tebow hit the craptastic meter.

Like i said the other day. If Tebow becomes a FQB why even trade him for a #1 sitting on the bench who hasnt proven anything? Didnt work out too well for SD in that regard.


Taking a quarterback makes perfect sense, especially if they are still riddled with concerns about Tebow. Let's say that Tebow was gone and we had Orton and Quinn under contract, wouldn't it make sense to draft someone? The difference is that you have faith in Tebow and your guessing they do too, but what if they have little faith and feel it's not worth risking the season?

Well, as i stated in my last paragragh. If Tebow were traded or cut than taking a QB first next year makes a lot of sense. But we havent crossed that threshold yet. As to you last sentence, what risk could they possibly have by starting Tebow this year other than the idea that they think they can make the playoffs this year? If they do believe that winning this year is slim like you stated earlier than why waste a season behind Orton?

Again, if thats the case i would question their compentency to coach and run this organization.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

I thought "team sources" said we didn't submit any claims???

According to PFT we did... and lost to Carolina for the CB...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/darius-butler-drew-four-waiver-claims/

[pnbronco]

There we go, thank God.

Heard on radio yesterday it could be next week before more player pickups. After first game all cut vet contracts are cancelled and can offer a new one, typing on phone.

[DenBronx]

I thought "team sources" said we didn't submit any claims???

According to PFT we did... and lost to Carolina for the CB...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/darius-butler-drew-four-waiver-claims/

If theres anyone they are interested in then we lose everytime. CB is something we might be the most thin at after losing Cox and Syd.

[Tned]

3) Fox is quoted as saying that Orton gives them the best chance to win NOW. Thats telling me that Fox plans on making a run to the playoffs no matter if i see it the same way or not.

4) Both Elway and Fox feel that Tebow isnt ready. So sitting him another year or at the very least until we are out of the playoff race or Orton is injured they figure will do the kid some good.


IMO, these are the two reasons (some of each) that have Orton starting. I have heard/read enough from people who have watched a lot of camp to get the sense Tebow still has a lot of the fundamentals to work on.

Beyond that, it looks like they think they can win now, and Orton gives them the best chance.

[Lancane]

Well, if you talk to guys like Clay and Turf both those guys wanted him gone after Mcd took a phone call for Cassell. Two years later and after a severe downfall its easy to see why McD's plug was pulled. But many fans wanted him gone long before this past offseason.
I wanted him gone the minute I heard he was trying to trade Cutler as well. But that really doesn't have much to do with what we're discussing. What I am explaining is that the Broncos heard the fan outcry which grew to extended heights after the whole video incident, Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis both remarked about the fans in their decision to go a different route. I think they knew that the fans were getting rabid, not only that but Xanders, Elway and Fox have mentioned getting the fans back as well...so I stand by what I said that the fans have more power then what people tend to believe.


Well, it could also be that both QB's are closer than some on here predicted. Tebow looked just fine in preseason so it would of been very difficult for Fox and company to sell since Quinn looked so bad in the last preseason game.

So then you're acknowledging that the fans matter here but not above? Why care what the fans think about quarterback positioning?


While i agree i dont care how the players feel there is something to be said about losing a lockerroom. We saw that in the Plummer/Cutler fiasco and even a class act like Rod Smith was not pleased with Plummer's benching. And while i feel Lloyd is backing Orton for financial reasons the same cannot be said for the rest of the players who may feel Orton is the best chance to win now.

Have you ever thought the reason that Orton is really the starter is not because he simply the best chance for us to win now, but that Tebow is really that far behind? I know you have faith in the kid, but until the final pre-season game I didn't see much of anything to praise him about, he did some good things in the last game...but that doesn't mean it's not a fluke or that he really is the future quarterback of this team.


What changed? I think honestly the circumstances. While Carolina is ready to move on with Newton at the helm i think Fox is more comfortable with Orton and his experience. For me, i think we should be starting Tebow because we are rebuilding. Newton isnt starting in Carolina because they EXPECT to win. He is starting because they are giving him the reps so that two or three years down the road they will be making their run.

I guess that's simply a difference of opinion.


A lot of speculation there though on whether they believe they can win or not. They may actually believe it.

Yeah and I believe Al Davis will win the Super Bowl! If Elway and Fox really believe they have a shot this year, then we need to check what they're putting in their coffee at Dove Valley.


Well, lets clear up something real quick. Elway did say that Tebow wasnt a great QB. But he that as of "right now" he isnt. Elway has also said that with some time and work he can become a good QB. Not too mention, if Tebow was a lost cause there would be NO REASON for Elway to stay during practice and help the kid. If i truly believed a athlete wasnt going to make it as a QB i would not be wasting time trying to help them. Especially a guy in his position where its not even his job to do that.
And Michael Irving thought that Terrell Owens going to Philadelphia would mellow him out...just cause someone of some football experience has an opinion doesn't mean that it will be so. Hell, Joe Montana said Alex Smith would be the next great 49ers quarterback!

As for Elway helping him, maybe Tim asked...maybe Elway thought it wouldn't hurt...that doesn't mean shit. I've helped underclassmen before, that didn't mean that they had potential, just meant I was a nice guy trying to help...I think people are reading too much into this. Also, have you ever thought that Orton really turned down the trade not because he simply wanted the money, but because he thought with his competition here it gave him his best chance at a long-term contract? Why would he think that?


Like i said the other day. If Tebow becomes a FQB why even trade him for a #1 sitting on the bench who hasnt proven anything? Didnt work out too well for SD in that regard.

I think it has, I would take Phillip Rivers over Drew Brees in a heart beat, it's the coaches hindering San Diego not Rivers.


Well, as i stated in my last paragragh. If Tebow were traded or cut than taking a QB first next year makes a lot of sense. But we havent crossed that threshold yet. As to you last sentence, what risk could they possibly have by starting Tebow this year other than the idea that they think they can make the playoffs this year? If they do believe that winning this year is slim like you stated earlier than why waste a season behind Orton?

Why cut a kid who they could get return value for later? His contract is fairly cheap and if he shows enough promise on the field, Denver can barter with him as Philadelphia did with Kolb, Atlanta did with Schaub and San Diego did with Brees. So why cut him, so they can not get any return value? That makes absolutely no sense, even if he's not the future he's a cash cow, a circus act for the time being...if he shows promise later then trade him - that's smart business.


Again, if thats the case i would question their compentency to coach and run this organization.

I wouldn't, indeed I would think we finally have a smart enough staff to realize that you need talent, better to have more at a position then less then you expected.

[Northman]

I wanted him gone the minute I heard he was trying to trade Cutler as well. But that really doesn't have much to do with what we're discussing. What I am explaining is that the Broncos heard the fan outcry which grew to extended heights after the whole video incident, Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis both remarked about the fans in their decision to go a different route. I think they knew that the fans were getting rabid, not only that but Xanders, Elway and Fox have mentioned getting the fans back as well...so I stand by what I said that the fans have more power then what people tend to believe.

There was a huge outcry when Cutler got traded yet nothing happened. What im trying to explain here is that it was McD's record as a HC and his not informing the NFL about Spygate II that was his eventual downfall. While the fanbase was still clamoring for him to be removed it wasnt until Bowlen realized how crappy of a coach he was that McD was finally gone. Do you really believe that if McD had a winning record in Denver that he would of been fired? I dont think so.


So then you're acknowledging that the fans matter here but not above? Why care what the fans think about quarterback positioning?

I never said the fans dont matter. And technically they dont care what the fans think about the QB position because Orton is starting despite the huge outcry from fans to have Tebow start.


Have you ever thought the reason that Orton is really the starter is not because he simply the best chance for us to win now, but that Tebow is really that far behind?

Absolutely not. Right now i dont think Tebow can do much worse with this team than Orton.


I know you have faith in the kid, but until the final pre-season game I didn't see much of anything to praise him about, he did some good things in the last game...but that doesn't mean it's not a fluke or that he really is the future quarterback of this team.

For me, its not about praising him. And really, its not about faith in him. I just look at what he's done in live games and compared it other QB's in their first 3 games. He's done about the same good or bad as some of the best QB's in the game. Does it mean he is a HOF or FQB? No. But that does give me pause as a football fan to wonder if he can make it as one. If Tebow had played very poorly in those 3 games last year you and i wouldnt be having this conversation. I would of said you guys are right, lets play and hope for Luck or some other QB next year. But with his play he's made me challenge the way i think about him personally. And dude, i HATE run first QB's. I am not a huge Tebow, Vick, Young, Newton, or whatever fan. I dont have belief in those type of QB's. But i have to go with whats in front of me and so far he does give me pause that maybe with some work he can be a "pass first" type of QB. But until we see him play more its still a major question.


I guess that's simply a difference of opinion.

Indeed, its all opinion. But, no one is going to convince me that Newton gives the Panthers the best chance to win. His numbers in preseason were HORRIBLE. But unlike Denver (in my opinion) Carolina is looking at the bigger picture down the road and just like Indy did with Manning (no, i dont think Newton will be Manning) they are letting him take the reigns to get his feet wet win, lose, or draw.


Yeah and I believe Al Davis will win the Super Bowl! If Elway and Fox really believe they have a shot this year, then we need to check what they're putting in their coffee at Dove Valley.

I agree, someone put fairy dust in their pudding but thats what they claim. At this point i cant say they are wrong even though i feel differently.


And Michael Irving thought that Terrell Owens going to Philadelphia would mellow him out...just cause someone of some football experience has an opinion doesn't mean that it will be so. Hell, Joe Montana said Alex Smith would be the next great 49ers quarterback!

As for Elway helping him, maybe Tim asked...maybe Elway thought it wouldn't hurt...that doesn't mean shit. I've helped underclassmen before, that didn't mean that they had potential, just meant I was a nice guy trying to help...I think people are reading too much into this. Also, have you ever thought that Orton really turned down the trade not because he simply wanted the money, but because he thought with his competition here it gave him his best chance at a long-term contract? Why would he think that?

Well, Irving might have thought that but i knew it wouldnt be like that. Owens came out exactly like i thought he would so i guess im a Northradamus. :lol:

Sure, Elway could be just being nice but again i dont see it happening for a guy who has many other things he could be doing. And again, if Elway really thought he wasnt going to be a QB it would be a waste of time to even try to teach him. But, i feel that Elway thinks that the kid can succeed and will try to do all that he can to see if he can be a good QB. Doesnt mean its going to happen but for the success of the Broncos i hope so.


I think it has, I would take Phillip Rivers over Drew Brees in a heart beat, it's the coaches hindering San Diego not Rivers.

While i agree Norv is like the kryponite for any team i would never take Rivers over Brees. I think you would be in the small minority there as well.


Why cut a kid who they could get return value for later? His contract is fairly cheap and if he shows enough promise on the field, Denver can barter with him as Philadelphia did with Kolb, Atlanta did with Schaub and San Diego did with Brees. So why cut him, so they can not get any return value? That makes absolutely no sense, even if he's not the future he's a cash cow, a circus act for the time being...if he shows promise later then trade him - that's smart business.

Sure, its smart business but you cant have it both ways. If Tebow (at least according to you, Rav, and Clay) isnt a very promising QB than who in the world is going to pay a lot of money for him? Answer: No one.

The reason why Schaub, Kolb, and Brees got their contracts is because the teams that got them believed they were of starter calibur players. But ironically enough, all of those QB's got more than 3 games to show what they got BEFORE they landed in their new homes. So, do you really think that at a team is going to shovel out a crapload of money to a guy that still has question marks? I dont.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I thought "team sources" said we didn't submit any claims???

According to PFT we did... and lost to Carolina for the CB...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/07/darius-butler-drew-four-waiver-claims/

There was an article that stated they did not; however, I think Butler was cut yesterday, and if that is correct, the Broncos' made the statement prior to him being cut. I am sure the Broncos are watching other teams' cuts daily.

[claymore]

Well, if you talk to guys like Clay and Turf both those guys wanted him gone after Mcd took a phone call for Cassell. Two years later and after a severe downfall its easy to see why McD's plug was pulled. But many fans wanted him gone long before this past offseason.



Some of us are great judges of Character. :D

[Northman]

Some of us are great judges of Character. :D

Indeed a good call on your guys part. But i guess deep down even after i was miffed with the Cutler fiasco i was hoping McDouche knew what he was doing. But, im glad he's gone and hope that we can get back to greatness.

[claymore]

Indeed a good call on your guys part. But i guess deep down even after i was miffed with the Cutler fiasco i was hoping McDouche knew what he was doing. But, im glad he's gone and hope that we can get back to greatness.

I really think EFX is the answer. Not sure about Fox, but he is the polar opposite of McDaniels so thats a good thing.

I feel like we started to build a base this last draft. Bonofied starters/contributors.

No drama other than Tebow, which isnt EFX's fault.