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SR
12-02-2008, 09:54 AM
This is what G and I have been saying for a little while, as well as others on the board, so it's nice to see Shanny acknowledge that and give the kid some praise.



On what S Josh Barrett brings to the defense
"Speed. He will get experience as time goes on and he will feel more comfortable with the different schemes. The one thing that he does have is he has great size and great speed where he can make some plays. He did that a couple times on defense as well as special teams.

On S Josh Barrett's progress
"There is a learning curve. Some guys pick it up a little quicker than others. Josh has been working extremely hard. He finally got an opportunity to show us what he could do and maybe we should have been playing him a little bit earlier. He made some plays in pass defense, he made some plays in special teams and he has something that you can't coach-and that's size and speed-and he took advantage of that opportunity."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest?tag=denver%20broncos

claymore
12-02-2008, 10:09 AM
I take full credit for turning ~G Money on to Barrett.

Your welcome,

Signed.....

Clayton.... More

XXOO

Fan in Exile
12-02-2008, 10:10 AM
Nice to hear about Josh maybe he can get more time and push some of the other guys off the field, like Lowry and Fox.

yardog
12-02-2008, 10:13 AM
On S Josh Barrett's progress
"There is a learning curve. Some guys pick it up a little quicker than others. Josh has been working extremely hard. He finally got an opportunity to show us what he could do and maybe we should have been playing him a little bit earlier. He made some plays in pass defense, he made some plays in special teams and he has something that you can't coach-and that's size and speed-and he took advantage of that opportunity."

:doh:

:tsk:

TXBRONC
12-02-2008, 10:41 AM
I liked what I saw from Barrett and I hope than even if Marlon comes back that Josh will continue to start. Now if we had someone who could take Manuel's place I would feel even better.

pnbronco
12-02-2008, 10:46 AM
I take full credit for turning ~G Money on to Barrett.

Your welcome,

Signed.....

Clayton.... More

XXOO

Well Clay what a wise, wise person you are. Please keep up the good work. (Uh G please tell us the whole story;),,,:D)

pnbronco
12-02-2008, 10:48 AM
This is what G and I have been saying for a little while, as well as others on the board, so it's nice to see Shanny acknowledge that and give the kid some praise.



http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest?tag=denver%20broncos

Thanks for the post SR. I really like Barrett and I'm happy he is having a chance to show his talent and gain much needed experience.

SR
12-02-2008, 10:51 AM
The dude is a flat out BEAST and I know he can straight plaster people. Safeties like Landry, Palamalu (sp?), and what Barrett could potentially be, are hard to come by. It seems now days that safeties are bitches like most corners.

dogfish
12-03-2008, 04:20 AM
Well Clay what a wise, wise person you are. Please keep up the good work. (Uh G please tell us the whole story;),,,:D)


didn't you know? G gets like 90% of his material from clay. . . .

haroldthebarrel
12-03-2008, 05:35 AM
If Barrett pans out this is a draft worthy of history itself.

I think the coaches are a little late playing the young guys. But at least it turns out for the better in the end.

gobroncsnv
12-03-2008, 07:58 AM
You wonder if the staff was worried about having him make too many "rookie" mistakes... If it was me, I'd have worried at LEAST as much about the vets making far too many "shoulda known better" mistakes.

haroldthebarrel
12-03-2008, 10:28 AM
You wonder if the staff was worried about having him make too many "rookie" mistakes... If it was me, I'd have worried at LEAST as much about the vets making far too many "shoulda known better" mistakes.

Good point.

If the vets make rookie mistakes you might as well have a rookie do the same thing. At least he will get better in the end.

Speaking of vets, who was it that broke containment on the long TD by Thomas Jones on a counter?
Just like the Larry Johnson run. He should have been stopped had he just stayed in his spot.

Dreadnought
12-03-2008, 10:38 AM
didn't you know? G gets like 90% of his material from clay. . . .

Remind me to do an IP check. I have long suspected that G-Money and Claymore are one and the same person. The pieces fit together...

As far as Barrett goes, so far, so good. I'm really pulling for the kid, and he sure enough has every tool you could ask for.

pnbronco
12-03-2008, 10:49 AM
Remind me to do an IP check. I have long suspected that G-Money and Claymore are one and the same person. The pieces fit together...

As far as Barrett goes, so far, so good. I'm really pulling for the kid, and he sure enough has every tool you could ask for.

OK Dread, first of all I was going to say "I may be old, but not that old" Then I thought of you and you asking me to stop saying that, so I was going to just go sew. Then you saw this, too much mouth wash this am????

Dog, dude I don't buy bridges from anyone, even if they are cute like you, ok enough mouth wash.

Love reading about Barrett from G/Clay. Glad he is getting to play...

G_Money
12-03-2008, 11:05 AM
It’s true. Clay and I have long late-night talks and I tape-record his drunken murmurings about the Broncos, transcribe them while he sleeps, and claim them as my own.

He never remembers our conversations anyway.

As for Barrett, his problem has been health. When HEALTHY he can be a monster. Lack of health his first two years in college made him tentative. It’s hard to play all-out when you can only hit people with one side of your body because your shoulder’s messed up.

Then he had some leg issues his senior year. The only year he was healthy was his Junior year and he played tremendous football. After his Junior year I was looking at him as a 2nd round talent and advocating taking a look at him to solve our safety woes. With the injury issues he dropped to us at the end of the draft, and that may be a beautiful thing.

It’d be nice to only need one safety instead of two. He was terrific in the pre-season and now that they’re letting him play he’s being aggressive and doing what I want a safety to do. Unlike our other safeties he has recovery speed as well, so he can make a mistake and then try to fix it instead of just staring dumbly at the player running past him. Thank God Shanny’s seeing it now. Hopefully there won’t be any more of the Lowry and Rogers types starting over Barrett the rest of the year.

Props on the call, SR. The more our draftees and rookies play, the better the team looks. That’s either a total indictment of our veteran free agents, or speaks volumes about our sudden and glorious recent ability to draft lots of NFL-caliber impact players.

Maybe both. ;)

~G

Fan in Exile
12-03-2008, 02:09 PM
It’s true. Clay and I have long late-night talks and I tape-record his drunken murmurings about the Broncos, transcribe them while he sleeps, and claim them as my own.

He never remembers our conversations anyway.

As for Barrett, his problem has been health. When HEALTHY he can be a monster. Lack of health his first two years in college made him tentative. It’s hard to play all-out when you can only hit people with one side of your body because your shoulder’s messed up.

Then he had some leg issues his senior year. The only year he was healthy was his Junior year and he played tremendous football. After his Junior year I was looking at him as a 2nd round talent and advocating taking a look at him to solve our safety woes. With the injury issues he dropped to us at the end of the draft, and that may be a beautiful thing.

It’d be nice to only need one safety instead of two. He was terrific in the pre-season and now that they’re letting him play he’s being aggressive and doing what I want a safety to do. Unlike our other safeties he has recovery speed as well, so he can make a mistake and then try to fix it instead of just staring dumbly at the player running past him. Thank God Shanny’s seeing it now. Hopefully there won’t be any more of the Lowry and Rogers types starting over Barrett the rest of the year.

Props on the call, SR. The more our draftees and rookies play, the better the team looks. That’s either a total indictment of our veteran free agents, or speaks volumes about our sudden and glorious recent ability to draft lots of NFL-caliber impact players.

Maybe both. ;)

~G

I think you also have to say it's an indictment of the staff who sent the veterans out there in the first place. I'm not going to buy the excuse that they got this much better than the starters in the time since training camp got over. Somebody should have seen something.

haroldthebarrel
12-03-2008, 02:21 PM
well it looks like the scouting staff has a better feel for whom can do the job than the actual defensive staffs.

It seems like all the rookies outplay the veterans the minute they actually get the opportunity to do so.

broncofaninfla
12-03-2008, 03:09 PM
well it looks like the scouting staff has a better feel for whom can do the job than the actual defensive staffs.

It seems like all the rookies outplay the veterans the minute they actually get the opportunity to do so.


Excellent point! Makes me question how they evaluate the depth chart and who will start

Gimpygod
12-03-2008, 04:18 PM
Excellent point! Makes me question how they evaluate the depth chart and who will start

Probably the same way a lot of people here do, with a stopwatch and measuring stick. Explaining why there's a thread debating whether Hillis should be starting running back. Athletic prowess is a decent foundation but must be followed by determination, heart and grit, for a perfect example please see Rod Smith, Terrel Davis and 99% of the Hall of Fame.

G_Money
12-03-2008, 06:09 PM
There’s nothing WRONG with using a stopwatch in evaluations. It’ll tell you that Barrett is every bit the physical specimen that the top safeties in the draft are, and that Woodyard is the one of the fastest LBs who will get on the field.

It will also tell you that Larsen defending a fast pass-catcher on a go route is a dumb idea.

But the watch won’t tell you what guys like Larsen can do inside the box they play in 90% of the time. Like you said, it won’t measure a guy’s Want-To levels. There is no stopwatch for intestinal fortitude.

And that’s where player judgment comes in. Do you want the guy with less-dominant stats but more-dominant play? Can his heart overcome a problem in size, speed or strength at a level where weaknesses WILL be schemed for and placed on display?

Can you teach the workout warrior how to play football? Does he already know how?

That’s where the money is made. Getting the right size/speed players who can be taught the pro game and be fired up by their leaders, and getting the fiery leader-types who a great football players but merely good athletes.

For every Sims and Flutie there’s a guy whose heart and brain can’t overcome his deficiencies in other areas.

For every Sharpe and Jacobs there’s a physical freak who can’t be taught to master the game of football and best harness those abilities.

Every year, hundreds of the best minds in football take their best shots.

Every year, most of them fail at least partially at separating the wheat from the chaff.

It might not sound like rocket science to draft the hardest-playing, most-talented players you can get, but apparently it’s close. Luckily for us, we don’t appear to be in the bottom half of the league in making those decisions any more.

~G

haroldthebarrel
12-03-2008, 06:13 PM
There’s nothing WRONG with using a stopwatch in evaluations. It’ll tell you that Barrett is every bit the physical specimen that the top safeties in the draft are, and that Woodyard is the one of the fastest LBs who will get on the field.

It will also tell you that Larsen defending a fast pass-catcher on a go route is a dumb idea.

But the watch won’t tell you what guys like Larsen can do inside the box they play in 90% of the time. Like you said, it won’t measure a guy’s Want-To levels. There is no stopwatch for intestinal fortitude.

And that’s where player judgment comes in. Do you want the guy with less-dominant stats but more-dominant play? Can his heart overcome a problem in size, speed or strength at a level where weaknesses WILL be schemed for and placed on display?

Can you teach the workout warrior how to play football? Does he already know how?

That’s where the money is made. Getting the right size/speed players who can be taught the pro game and be fired up by their leaders, and getting the fiery leader-types who a great football players but merely good athletes.

For every Sims and Flutie there’s a guy whose heart and brain can’t overcome his deficiencies in other areas.

For every Sharpe and Jacobs there’s a physical freak who can’t be taught to master the game of football and best harness those abilities.

Every year, hundreds of the best minds in football take their best shots.

Every year, most of them fail at least partially at separating the wheat from the chaff.

It might not sound like rocket science to draft the hardest-playing, most-talented players you can get, but apparently it’s close. Luckily for us, we don’t appear to be in the bottom half of the league in making those decisions any more.

~G


Good post.

I think one of the reason Barrett fell along with the debacle with the coach is that on tape he played much slower than his timed speed.

I still believe we should have kept Lynch. One of the things that make the defense inconsistent is the lack of leadership and a guy who will make the calls/reads and tell the other players where to be.
That and he could have taught a lot of the mental preparation to guys like Barrett (and WW3 should he be put at SS)

gobroncsnv
12-03-2008, 10:25 PM
Well, Lynch left on his own when he wasn't assured a starting role. He's not a cover safety, and we didn't have one for the first several games this year. I agree with you, his leadership would have been valuable, but the man wanted to be a starter, and we had a limited role for him. He just was not a 3rd and 7 safety anymore.

Gimpygod
12-04-2008, 10:58 AM
Thanks for the response! Sometimes, being a big giant head getting lugged around in a wheelchair, I get the idea that mental alacrity And willpower are the only important attributes... erroneously so. On the other hand, it's got to be more than a coincidence that half the football team croaked and we are better now on defense. Maybe Webster's physical abilities do outweigh the fact he runs for 50 yards throwing his arms around like an epileptic at Mardi Gras after he stops a running back for a 3 yard gain on first down... nah! =)

Seriously though, there are many things about the physical world I simply don't understand and really appreciate you taking the time to explain the concept so even I can relate.

This is off-topic but another physical question I have been mulling over: is our superhigh dropped passes number related in any way to Cutler's strong arm?


There’s nothing WRONG with using a stopwatch in evaluations. It’ll tell you that Barrett is every bit the physical specimen that the top safeties in the draft are, and that Woodyard is the one of the fastest LBs who will get on the field.

It will also tell you that Larsen defending a fast pass-catcher on a go route is a dumb idea.

But the watch won’t tell you what guys like Larsen can do inside the box they play in 90% of the time. Like you said, it won’t measure a guy’s Want-To levels. There is no stopwatch for intestinal fortitude.

And that’s where player judgment comes in. Do you want the guy with less-dominant stats but more-dominant play? Can his heart overcome a problem in size, speed or strength at a level where weaknesses WILL be schemed for and placed on display?

Can you teach the workout warrior how to play football? Does he already know how?

That’s where the money is made. Getting the right size/speed players who can be taught the pro game and be fired up by their leaders, and getting the fiery leader-types who a great football players but merely good athletes.

For every Sims and Flutie there’s a guy whose heart and brain can’t overcome his deficiencies in other areas.

For every Sharpe and Jacobs there’s a physical freak who can’t be taught to master the game of football and best harness those abilities.

Every year, hundreds of the best minds in football take their best shots.

Every year, most of them fail at least partially at separating the wheat from the chaff.

It might not sound like rocket science to draft the hardest-playing, most-talented players you can get, but apparently it’s close. Luckily for us, we don’t appear to be in the bottom half of the league in making those decisions any more.

~G

haroldthebarrel
12-04-2008, 11:44 AM
Thanks for the response! Sometimes, being a big giant head getting lugged around in a wheelchair, I get the idea that mental alacrity And willpower are the only important attributes... erroneously so. On the other hand, it's got to be more than a coincidence that half the football team croaked and we are better now on defense. Maybe Webster's physical abilities do outweigh the fact he runs for 50 yards throwing his arms around like an epileptic at Mardi Gras after he stops a running back for a 3 yard gain on first down... nah! =)

Seriously though, there are many things about the physical world I simply don't understand and really appreciate you taking the time to explain the concept so even I can relate.

This is off-topic but another physical question I have been mulling over: is our superhigh dropped passes number related in any way to Cutler's strong arm?

Clarence Kay hated going over the middle since Elway would always throw the ball hard when pressured.

Physically I think your argument makes sense though. As the ball moves faster, that means you have less time to adjust and catch it. On the other hand if you have a very good hand to eye control, then the qb can throw balls in very small areas. Which is called windows of opportunity I think.

Also, since a cb don't train as much catching the ball, and the interceptions are result of a very quick read and react situation, a faster ball means less time to adjust to the ball.
Which might explain why defenders drop so many balls that we would expect any receiver to catch.

But I am obviously conjecturing.

shank
12-04-2008, 12:04 PM
i don't think the drop rate is due to cutler's arm strength. MANY of the drops have been balls that should have been caught, but there was either good coverage, the ball was just a bit hard to adjust to, or the receivers start running upfield before they've made sure to secure the ball. only a few that i remember have gone through receivers' hands because of how fast they were moving.

i think the drops show our youth too. either cutler is trying a little to hard to squeeze passes in, and he does, but the receivers don't expect the ball to actually make it to them... those are some of the hardest passes to catch, the ones you expect to be deflected. also the youth of our receivers, when they get a little behind, they think they need to make BIG plays, and try to do too much without making sure to catch the ball first.

haroldthebarrel
12-04-2008, 12:06 PM
i don't think the drop rate is due to cutler's arm strength. MANY of the drops have been balls that should have been caught, but there was either good coverage, the ball was just a bit hard to adjust to, or the receivers start running upfield before they've made sure to secure the ball. only a few that i remember have gone through receivers' hands because of how fast they were moving.

i think the drops show our youth too. either cutler is trying a little to hard to squeeze passes in, and he does, but the receivers don't expect the ball to actually make it to them... those are some of the hardest passes to catch, the ones you expect to be deflected. also the youth of our receivers, when they get a little behind, they think they need to make BIG plays, and try to do too much without making sure to catch the ball first.

That is so true. so many drops are a result of either a receiver preparing to get hit, or a result of the receiver planning his next move before catching the ball.

NightTrainLayne
12-04-2008, 12:14 PM
Maybe Webster's physical abilities do outweigh the fact he runs for 50 yards throwing his arms around like an epileptic at Mardi Gras after he stops a running back for a 3 yard gain on first down... nah! =)



Oh man, that is some funny stuff! :D:D:D:D

Lonestar
12-04-2008, 12:15 PM
That is so true. so many drops are a result of either a receiver preparing to get hit, or a result of the receiver planning his next move before catching the ball.

short arm syndrome or mental midget syndrome..

Both are correctable.. providing the WR have something between their ears..

haroldthebarrel
12-04-2008, 12:17 PM
short arm syndrome or mental midget syndrome..

Both are correctable.. providing the WR have something between their ears..

Didnt Andre Johnson drop a lot of balls becuase he had bad sight, and then correct it with lenses?

I know one thing, my sight is so bad that I am terrible at catching anything with my hands. I was the ultimate body catcher.

fcspikeit
12-04-2008, 03:01 PM
This is what G and I have been saying for a little while, as well as others on the board, so it's nice to see Shanny acknowledge that and give the kid some praise.



http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest?tag=denver%20broncos

LOL, I haven't seen one person say Barrett shouldn't be playing :D (Except for Shanahan and co.)

The worst part about him not playing is he is actually better then our starters. Even if he was only as good, he should have been out there. His upside is way higher then anyone else we have tried.

We haven't seen enough of him to know for sure if he can be a true starter for us. That's an off season/draft day question we need answered before the end of this season.

He should start from here on out. IMO he has shown that he is at least as good as anyone else and we need to see how good he can be. There is simply no reason not to play him!

fcspikeit
12-04-2008, 03:19 PM
I think you also have to say it's an indictment of the staff who sent the veterans out there in the first place. I'm not going to buy the excuse that they got this much better than the starters in the time since training camp got over. Somebody should have seen something.

The question is, will this year go down as a failure in that department because they didn't see what they had or a great success by them because they won with so many injuries?

Every time I here someone say, they are doing this despite all the injuries and with 6 Rookies starting, it pisses me off. Most everyone knows we have benefited from the Rookie's play and partly because of all the injuries, not the other way around.

Shanahan decides who plays and who doesn't, maybe he is trusting others opinion to highly? Either way, it is a problem he can correct. If the failure is overlooked and nothing is done about it, we can safely assume he had more hand in this oversight then most care to admit.

Lonestar
12-04-2008, 05:34 PM
The question is, will this year go down as a failure in that department because they didn't see what they had or a great success by them because they won with so many injuries?

Every time I here someone say, they are doing this despite all the injuries and with 6 Rookies starting, it pisses me off. Most everyone knows we have benefited from the Rookie's play and partly because of all the injuries, not the other way around.

Shanahan decides who plays and who doesn't, maybe he is trusting others opinion to highly? Either way, it is a problem he can correct. If the failure is overlooked and nothing is done about it, we can safely assume he had more hand in this oversight then most care to admit.


I prefer to say it like this our D stunk we had a lot of injuries and we are 6-5 in spite of the injuries by heads up play from a bunch of rookies..

Our defense has improved weekly even playing three backup LB's and two rookies in the Backfield..

fcspikeit
12-04-2008, 06:02 PM
i prefer to say it like this our d stunk we had a lot of injuries and we are 7-5 in spite of the injuries by heads up play from a bunch of rookies..

Our defense has improved weekly even playing three backup lb's and two rookies in the backfield..

I was mainly talking about the commentators who have said that, I like the looks of 7 - 5 :D

Lonestar
12-04-2008, 11:58 PM
I was mainly talking about the commentators who have said that, and we're 7 - 5 :D

feels like 6-5 thanks for the subtle hint.

fcspikeit
12-05-2008, 12:27 AM
feels like 6-5 thanks for the subtle hint.

Its really amazing how 1 win can change the perspective of a team. 6 - 5 looks barely average, 7 - 5 looks like a division leader :D

If we had lost we would be 6 - 6 :eek: It's as if 0 just turned to 2. Maybe it's just me?

gobroncsnv
12-05-2008, 08:10 AM
Speaking of vets, who was it that broke containment on the long TD by Thomas Jones on a counter?
Just like the Larry Johnson run. He should have been stopped had he just stayed in his spot.

Winborn... I think you knew, but this was no rhetorical question, it deMANDS a response. We just CAN'T be looking at this guy as a long-term answer.