Wesley Woodyard

[Superchop 7]

After seeing him on The Jay Cutler show I am convinced he should be a strong safety.

(Especially since we have two of the worst safeties in the league)

Good size for safety, small for LB.

Thoughts ?

[slim]

After seeing him on The Jay Cutler show I am convinced he should be a strong safety.

(Especially since we have two of the worst safeties in the league)

Good size for safety, small for LB.

Thoughts ?

:confused:

LMMFAO...the Jay Culter show is where most scouts develop their opinions.

[broncohead]

He hasn't played since his freshmen year...

[Italianmobstr7]

The guy is a LB. Lets keep him there. If he's averaging around 10 tackles per game, he's not too small to play the position. We need to fix Safety through either the Draft or a younger and better FA than Mccree, Lowry, or McCree.

[SR]

Why in God's name do some of you people insist on moving people from position to position? Get a clue.

[Lonestar]

Why in God's name do some of you people insist on moving people from position to position? Get a clue.


The guys natural position is safety he moved to LB because they needed LB worse than Safety in college.

He is fast enough to play safety and is about the right size 212 was what he was quoted a couple weeks ago saying what he weights...

anything under 220 for a LB is not going to last long in the NFL.. most should be 230+..
I have liked the kid since the combine where he ran circles around the LB's..

IIRC had great foot work and well as having a great vertical jump and his shuttle times were among the best.

Lets see a 4 year starter at Kentucky best score in the group and he was not drafted.. 32 GM/HC in the NFL and skates through all of them 3-7 times..

Yes he has made a lot of tackle's not doubt about it.. unless he can pack 10-18 pounds on and maintains his times I think he would be great as safety..

[broncohead]

moving from LB to safety would be too much of a change. This isn't high school where you can move players where ever you want. He is a LB that used to be a safety... His natural position used to be safety.

[Lonestar]

moving from LB to safety would be too much of a change. This isn't high school where you can move players where ever you want. He is a LB that used to be a safety... His natural position used to be safety.

And larsen used to be a LB then FB now a MLB.

Lepsis was a TE not OLT..

Mike makes changes in personnel all the time..

If they try Woodyard at SS the one that Lynch used to play near the LOS as the 8th guy in the box it is better than him sitting on the bench behind DJ or playing him at 212 as a SAM LB that if you look around the league averages somewhere about 235..

Him playing anywhere getting experience on the filed is better than him sitting on the bench wondering about what is for dinner.. HE has talent is a great athlete..

HE can cover over the middle in passing situations while he might not be John Lynch yet the kid has desire and frankly can;t be ANY WORSE that the skells we have had playing the spots so far.. mikeys grand FA Safety scheme of 2008 has fell flat on its face time to move on to the future..

[broncohead]

I honestly don't see him as the future at safety... The guy has talent no doubt but so far in the games that he has played he looks good as a LB. I don't see him being as good as a safety as he is/will be a LB.

[broncohead]

TEs are part of the OL and depending on the scheme will block as much as one. Larsen isn't a good FB he's a LB just like Larsen.

[Lonestar]

I honestly don't see him as the future at safety... The guy has talent no doubt but so far in the games that he has played he looks good as a LB. I don't see him being as good as a safety as he is/will be a LB.


What do you not get???

DO you want him to set on the bench or take DJ's spot???

Those are his options..

To small to play SAM..

WAY to SMALL to play MIKE..

[Lonestar]

TEs are part of the OL and depending on the scheme will block as much as one. Larsen isn't a good FB he's a LB just like Larsen.


The point was mikey changes folks around all the time.. foxworthless to a 180 safety..

There are a lot of experiments:

he is a better athlete than the two morons we currently have at Safety.
he hits like a truck..
Knows how to tackle and wrap up.
He played safety most of his football career..
switched to LB in his sophomore year in college because they needed him there..


If it does not work fine leave him on the bench behind DJ.. Good coaches use the talent they have on the team.. Find ways to use it.. As the 8th man in the box he is a small LB anyway..

[SR]

And larsen used to be a LB then FB now a MLB.



Larsen didn't play FB for years. He was a linebacker LAST YEAR. His NATURAL position is LB because that's what he plays. Woodyard has been playing linebacker since the beginning of college...he is a linebacker.

[SR]

What do you not get???

DO you want him to set on the bench or take DJ's spot???

Those are his options..

To small to play SAM..

WAY to SMALL to play MIKE..

Where are you getting it that he has to be on the field at all?

[broncohead]

The point was mikey changes folks around all the time.. foxworthless to a 180 safety..

There are a lot of experiments:

he is a better athlete than the two morons we currently have at Safety.
he hits like a truck..
Knows how to tackle and wrap up.
He played safety most of his football career..
switched to LB in his sophomore year in college because they needed him there..


If it does not work fine leave him on the bench behind DJ.. Good coaches use the talent they have on the team.. Find ways to use it.. As the 8th man in the box he is a small LB anyway..

So we run 8 in the box all the time now we only have one worthless safety instead of two in coverage... makes sence

[fcspikeit]

Where are you getting it that he has to be on the field at all?

:confused: Ain't that the whole point? So your saying he won't be as good at S as what we have, so we shouldn't even give him a shot? Or you just don't want him to play S regardless?


So we run 8 in the box all the time now we only have one worthless safety instead of two in coverage... makes sence

You would rather have two worthless safety's against the run instead one?

Why don't you want to give him a shot at S? Even if he sucked in coverage, we could bring him in on running downs. at least he would get to play. I have a hard time believing he could be worse then what we have starting now.

Honestly, who would you rather have on the field to make a tackle against a RB, Woodyard , Lowry or Manual? Who would you rather have in coverage for that matter?

All JR is saying as that we need help at safety, Woodyard will be our best player soon to be sitting on the bench and he has the right size and skill set. Why not give him a shot?

[broncohead]

:confused: Ain't that the whole point? So your saying he won't be as good at S as what we have, so we shouldn't even give him a shot? Or you just don't want him to play S regardless?



You would rather have two worthless safety's against the run instead one?

Why don't you want to give him a shot at S? Even if he sucked in coverage, we could bring him in on running downs. at least he would get to play. I have a hard time believing he could be worse then what we have starting now.

Honestly, who would you rather have on the field to make a tackle against a RB, Woodyard , Lowry or Manual? Who would you rather have in coverage for that matter?

All JR is saying as that we need help at safety, Woodyard will be our best player soon to be sitting on the bench and he has the right size and skill set. Why not give him a shot?

We shouldn't give him a shot because he is a OLBer. He has played well at that position why change it? He may be an upgrade from what we currently have but that doesn't mean much and we can't run 8 in the box on every down.

[fcspikeit]

We shouldn't give him a shot because he is a OLBer. He has played well at that position why change it? He may be an upgrade from what we currently have but that doesn't mean much and we can't run 8 in the box on every down.

So you feel we should keep him on the field even after DJ comes back? Why change it right?

No one is saying he should play S over LB. We are saying he should play S over sitting on the bench. Him being an upgrade is a big deal! If he is better or at least as good in coverage, we wont have to play 8 in the box anymore then we do now.

First we should give Barritt a shot then when DJ comes back and takes his spot. We should give Woodyard a chance to play S. I'm not sure if either can play FS, that's the whole point. We just don't know. We will never know unless we give them a shot.

The only thing we do know is that the guys we have out there aren't getting the job done.

[broncohead]

Changing positions like that wastes a players natural abilities at the position he should be playing.

[fcspikeit]

Changing positions like that wastes a players natural abilities at the position he should be playing.

He will be sitting on the bench, That isn't wasting his natural abilities?

Would moving him to the other side constitute a position change? If so he will never get to play here as long as we have DJ.

[broncohead]

He will be sitting on the bench, That isn't wasting his natural abilities?

Would moving him to the other side constitute a position change? If so he will never get to play here as long as we have DJ.

Switching positions means that he is learning another position and won't go through the everyday position drills at LBer. He will get rusty at LB and if he doesn't pan out at safety we wasted time that he could have used refining skills at LB. I know the only position that he can play right now is WILL but I'm hoping he'll put on some weight and possibly get a shot at SAM or even MIKE if Larsen doesn't pan out.

[fcspikeit]

Switching positions means that he is learning another position and won't go through the everyday position drills at LBer. He will get rusty at LB and if he doesn't pan out at safety we wasted time that he could have used refining skills at LB. I know the only position that he can play right now is WILL but I'm hoping he'll put on some weight and possibly get a shot at SAM or even MIKE if Larsen doesn't pan out.

Now that makes sense, If he could bulk up without losing his speed, I am all for giving him a shot at SAM. We could use an upgrade there. Just as long as we can get the best players on the field...

[rcsodak]

Why in God's name do some of you people insist on moving people from position to position? Get a clue.

I agree 10000000% with you, ingRed!!!!!!!!!







though I wanted Gold to become a safety :lol:

[Lonestar]

Now that makes sense, If he could bulk up without losing his speed, I am all for giving him a shot at SAM. We could use an upgrade there. Just as long as we can get the best players on the field...


The issue is he did bulk up for the combine 220 and coming into camp 230 now he is at 212.. What does that tell you..

As for ruining his LB skills what the hell does that mean reading the play, reacting to it, shedding blocks and making tackles.

As a SS he has to read the play, reacting to it, shed blocks and make tackles. Blitz from time to time.. If anything it adds to his skill set on the field.

We all know he is not going to replace DJ unless something bad happens to DJ or we get such an incredible trade offer for him, he just signed a big long term contract and will be at WLB until he wants to retire...

If you have a great talent on the field in DJ just where in the hell is Woodyard going to get "practice time"

Can't have you corn flakes and eat them at the same time..

Playing him @ SS does not in any shape or from ruin him for LB waiting for DJ to go down does..

Denver's priority is the stop the RUN.. That means 8 in the box and blitzing from there also.

If he does not work out there fine we KNOW FOR SURE we have to DRAFT TWO safeties not just one..

[fcspikeit]

The issue is he did bulk up for the combine 220 and coming into camp 230 now he is at 212.. What does that tell you..

As for ruining his LB skills what the hell does that mean reading the play, reacting to it, shedding blocks and making tackles.

As a SS he has to read the play, reacting to it, shed blocks and make tackles. Blitz from time to time.. If anything it adds to his skill set on the field.

We all know he is not going to replace DJ unless something bad happens to DJ or we get such an incredible trade offer for him, he just signed a big long term contract and will be at WLB until he wants to retire...

If you have a great talent on the field in DJ just where in the hell is Woodyard going to get "practice time"

Can't have you corn flakes and eat them at the same time..

Playing him @ SS does not in any shape or from ruin him for LB waiting for DJ to go down does..

Denver's priority is the stop the RUN.. That means 8 in the box and blitzing from there also.

If he does not work out there fine we KNOW FOR SURE we have to DRAFT TWO safeties not just one..

I agree we need to keep him on the field.. If the only way to do that is to move him to SS then we should do it. However, we do have Barrett I would like to see him get a chance to play SS to see what he can do, I really don't know if either of the 2 can play FS?

But your dead on about him sitting on the bench, that is wasting his talent far more then moving him to S

[56crash]

good god.....learn to read people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DJ is ready to play this leaves Woodyard on the bench you guy act as thought he should stay there even though he is a play maker . you get play makers on the field !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

people act like If woodyard was moved to Safety he could never go back ....silly .

[broncohead]

The issue is he did bulk up for the combine 220 and coming into camp 230 now he is at 212.. What does that tell you..

It says he can't sustain weight. But it really isn't a hard problem to fix. The coach should tell him keep above 230 and you can start at SAM. A good diet and workout program can keep him over.


As for ruining his LB skills what the hell does that mean reading the play, reacting to it, shedding blocks and making tackles. As a SS he has to read the play, reacting to it, shed blocks and make tackles. Blitz from time to time.. If anything it adds to his skill set on the field.

Obviously you haven't played any big time sports or you wouldn't have made this comment. To be good at a position you have to refine your position specific skills everyday even if you've done it a million times. If you don't then you will only be average and never live up to potential. So a LB can play DT cause they have to read and react along with shedding blocks? Every position is read and react...


We all know he is not going to replace DJ unless something bad happens to DJ or we get such an incredible trade offer for him, he just signed a big long term contract and will be at WLB until he wants to retire...

So Woodyard needs to sustain the weight he gains through simple diet and workout program...


Playing him @ SS does not in any shape or from ruin him for LB waiting for DJ to go down does..

Actually it does...


Denver's priority is the stop the RUN.. That means 8 in the box and blitzing from there also.

When we start running this type of Defense then Woodyard would be great as the 8th man but until we actually start running this type of Defense more then it really doesn't matter...


If he does not work out there fine we KNOW FOR SURE we have to DRAFT TWO safeties not just one..

Or if he sustains weight we won't have to draft a SAM LB and can go for safeties

[Superchop 7]

Seriously, look at the guy, he is not built like a linebacker.

He is built like a safety.

He is absolutely an upgrade over what we have.

Get him on the field.

I "always" do my scouting on The Jay Cutler show, how do you think I found out about Jehuu Caucrick ?

Here is Jays quote " It would be nice if we had a plowhorse in the red zone like Jehuu Caucrick"

[topscribe]

Obviously you haven't played any big time sports or you wouldn't have made this comment. To be good at a position you have to refine your position specific skills everyday even if you've done it a million times. If you don't then you will only be average and never live up to potential. So a LB can play DT cause they have to read and react along with shedding blocks? Every position is read and react...


I might inform you that you are responding to a person who saw the first
game the Broncos ever played on 9 September 1960 and has followed pro
football for the 48 years since.

Now, while there is some viability to what you both said, the similarities
between SS and LB are much greater than between LB and DT. In fact, the
safety has a greater responsibility, where he has to read the whole field,
whereas the LB has his territory to protect. I know that is oversimplification,
but it starts there.

And it would not necessarily "ruin" Woodyard to play safety. In fact, I
believe I read that he played it in school. But if playing FB didn't ruin Larsen,
then playing safety isn't going to ruin Woodyard.

-----

[broncohead]

I might inform you that you are responding to a person who saw the first
game the Broncos ever played on 9 September 1960 and has followed pro
football for the 48 years since.

Now, while there is some viability to what you both said, the similarities
between SS and LB are much greater than between LB and DT. In fact, the
safety has a greater responsibility, where he has to read the whole field,
whereas the LB has his territory to protect. I know that is oversimplification,
but it starts there.

And it would not necessarily "ruin" Woodyard to play safety. In fact, I
believe I read that he played it in school. But if playing FB didn't ruin Larsen,
then playing safety isn't going to ruin Woodyard.

-----

Ok SS and LB are totally differant. LB have to be able to shed blocks better and they use different techniuqs in doing so when your in the box. In the open field your not as agressive because you don't want to get out of possition for the big gain or even TD. SS usually reads run first and they have a different read step and keys. LB has to protect an area but has to hold ground. They have less to read but a good LB can make plays on the other side of the field which is what I've seen Woodyard do which is why I like him as a LB. Another reason is that safety does not directly impact the way he would play LB because he's seeing the field from a totally different view. I don't think I ever used the word "ruin." I more or less stated he would get rusty at the LB position.

[topscribe]

Ok SS and LB are totally differant. LB have to be able to shed blocks better and they use different techniuqs in doing so when your in the box. In the open field your not as agressive because you don't want to get out of possition for the big gain or even TD. SS usually reads run first and they have a different read step and keys. LB has to protect an area but has to hold ground. They have less to read but a good LB can make plays on the other side of the field which is what I've seen Woodyard do which is why I like him as a LB. Another reason is that safety does not directly impact the way he would play LB because he's seeing the field from a totally different view. I don't think I ever used the word "ruin." I more or less stated he would get rusty at the LB position.

Yes, I know, having played defense myself. I like Woodyard at LB, too, but I
would not be adverse to trying him at SS if there is not place for him at LB.
After all, there is D.J., Winborn, and possibly Boss coming back. It would be
better to get him onto the field than to lose him to a numbers game.

-----

[broncohead]

Winborn and Boss are to injurey prone to be full time starters.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Broncohead, I like the way you think.

[broncohead]

Broncohead, I like the way you think.

why is that

[Lonestar]

It says he can't sustain weight. But it really isn't a hard problem to fix. The coach should tell him keep above 230 and you can start at SAM. A good diet and workout program can keep him over.



Obviously you haven't played any big time sports or you wouldn't have made this comment. To be good at a position you have to refine your position specific skills everyday even if you've done it a million times. If you don't then you will only be average and never live up to potential. So a LB can play DT cause they have to read and react along with shedding blocks? Every position is read and react...



So Woodyard needs to sustain the weight he gains through simple diet and workout program...



Actually it does...



When we start running this type of Defense then Woodyard would be great as the 8th man but until we actually start running this type of Defense more then it really doesn't matter...



Or if he sustains weight we won't have to draft a SAM LB and can go for safeties

NO I have not "played any big time sports", but off the top on my head I can probably say I've spent more time in the urinal line at old mile high than you have on earth..

While I have not played at a collegiate or pro level I've seen the game played and have an eye (so I'm told) for seeing and analyzing problem areas.....

I also spent a lot of time (years) with a dear friend, almost a father figure who was a long time NFL ref.. Ben Dreith who lived and worked in my home town.. He gave me insight on how the game and LIFE should have been played..

Have been looking at the game differently since..

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this..

[Superchop 7]

Ben "giving him the business" Dreith.

Loved that guy.

[broncofaninfla]

I think we have to find a way to keep him on the field, the guy makes plays

[LRtagger]

When we start running this type of Defense then Woodyard would be great as the 8th man but until we actually start running this type of Defense more then it really doesn't matter...


This IS the defense we run unless we bring in the nickle package. Watch the defensive formations next game. Manuel is lined up as a 4th linebacker on every play unless the offense shows a 3+ WR set.

[roomemp]

Everyone disagrees but I say keep Woodyard and weakside and keep Winborn at Strongside. Pop DJ back in the middle till next season. There is no way we can take Woodyard out. The guy is in on literally every tackle.

[Rick]

Everyone disagrees but I say keep Woodyard and weakside and keep Winborn at Strongside. Pop DJ back in the middle till next season. There is no way we can take Woodyard out. The guy is in on literally every tackle.

I have said that myself before, got a few upity about it but who cares lol.

It is just from what I saw in preseason and so far in the games he has played through the season Woodyard NEEDS to be on the field, the kid has star all over him.

Forgive my possibly maddonism here but i really want to see us go 3-4 with this year Winborn at SLB, Webster/Larson at MLB, DJ at MLB, Woodyard WLB.

It may be very maddonistic...but its what i want and as just a typical couch potato coach...I can say shit like that :)

[haroldthebarrel]

Dj Williams is a pro bowl talent at weakide.
He is above average as a strongside, and average as a middle linebacker.

Larsen is a role player easily replaced as a fullback but he seems like the best middle linebacker on this team.

Foxworth has shown he is a good nickle corner but a lousy free safety.
Pryce was at times second to only Sapp as an undertackle but was just a good defensive end.
Hillis is perhaps the best fullback that has come out in a long time, but he would be replacable as a running back.
Woodyard is arguably playing like the best WILL among rookies at this time, yet you want to play him elsewhere. And a totally different position to boot.

The good coaches argument is worthwhile if and only if you talk about player filling roles that makes the team better. So far we have shown we dont have the coaches, and past experiments have failed.
A good coach puts his player into a position where he has a higher chance of succeeding and making the team better. Not putting the best players on the roster in at all costs and expect the team as a whole to become better.

We know it it the mental mistakes that makes this team unpredictable, yet somebody wants to argue that if we put people in different positions they will make less mistakes?
I dont buy that argument at all.

[haroldthebarrel]

Yes, I know, having played defense myself. I like Woodyard at LB, too, but I
would not be adverse to trying him at SS if there is not place for him at LB.
After all, there is D.J., Winborn, and possibly Boss coming back. It would be
better to get him onto the field than to lose him to a numbers game.

-----

Why not just put WW at SAM? When Gold and DJ played will and sam they were interchangable. They just played each down on the right and left side, and where the TE lined up, that dictated who was the SAM backer.

At least this proposition give WW a higher chance of playing in a role he is used to instead of the damn change everything because what we have now isnt working people spout off here. If it isnt working, we all know that you start with the easy parts and not doing it more complex.
heck, Slowik has shown his lack of basic preparation IMHO doing things more complex when players have already shown that what they did was too complex to begin with.

[Lonestar]

Why not just put WW at SAM? When Gold and DJ played will and sam they were interchangable. They just played each down on the right and left side, and where the TE lined up, that dictated who was the SAM backer.

At least this proposition give WW a higher chance of playing in a role he is used to instead of the damn change everything because what we have now isnt working people spout off here. If it isnt working, we all know that you start with the easy parts and not doing it more complex.
heck, Slowik has shown his lack of basic preparation IMHO doing things more complex when players have already shown that what they did was too complex to begin with.


The issues is WW is reported to be at 212 pounds he said it himself a few weeks ago.. Which is drastically to small to play SAM..

So the dilemma is play him at WIL only and move DJ an All Pro at will to MLB When we have had great play out of larsen there.. (not sure of his injury status as I type).. which then means taking our best WLB and moving him around just to let WW stay at WLB not to mention taking Larsen out of the mix..

Since WW is used to playing just behind the LOS as WLB, it only makes sense to move him back a few feet and let him play SS where he can still play in space and thus keep an All Pro WLB a decent SLB winborn and a promising rookie in Larsen at MLB..

The only person changing in this is WW.. Any play we get out of him at SS will be IMO an instant upgrade over manuel who has Sucked this year IMO.

[haroldthebarrel]

The issues is WW is reported to be at 212 pounds he said it himself a few weeks ago.. Which is drastically to small to play SAM..

So the dilemma is play him at WIL only and move DJ an All Pro at will to MLB When we have had great play out of larsen there.. (not sure of his injury status as I type).. which then means taking our best WLB and moving him around just to let WW stay at WLB not to mention taking Larsen out of the mix..

Since WW is used to playing just behind the LOS as WLB, it only makes sense to move him back a few feet and let him play SS where he can still play in space and thus keep an All Pro WLB a decent SLB winborn and a promising rookie in Larsen at MLB..

The only person changing in this is WW.. Any play we get out of him at SS will be IMO an instant upgrade over manuel who has Sucked this year IMO.

The same argument didnt apply to Foxworth. The play of the safeties went down with he in there.

Your argument is simplified. "He plays behind the LOS" is all what you are saying.. He has different role than he is used to in a cover 1, cover 2, cover 3 scheme, way different than at lb. If we play man, two man zone he is supposed to never let a receiver behind him. A little different than for the linebacker role? One misread, like one playaction and they are in a one on one match up which executed isbasically a given big play. Do the same misread as a WILL and it is a given ten/fifteen yard gain. Not a given td like the other example.

I think your argument is so oversimplified. it starts with he is a great player and pretty much ends with thus he must play a different position. Then you say he will succeed and if not the coaches cannot put our players in a position to succeed.

[Lonestar]

The same argument didnt apply to Foxworth. The play of the safeties went down with he in there.

Your argument is simplified. "He plays behind the LOS" is all what you are saying.. He has different role than he is used to in a cover 1, cover 2, cover 3 scheme, way different than at lb. If we play man, two man zone he is supposed to never let a receiver behind him. A little different than for the linebacker role? One misread, like one playaction and they are in a one on one match up which executed isbasically a given big play. Do the same misread as a WILL and it is a given ten/fifteen yard gain. Not a given td like the other example.

I think your argument is so oversimplified. it starts with he is a great player and pretty much ends with thus he must play a different position. Then you say he will succeed and if not the coaches cannot put our players in a position to succeed.

Foxworth IMO sucked as a safety way to light in the loafers to play the position.. which is one of the reasons he is now in ATL.

Since is WW to light to play anywhere but WLB and then he is about 10-12 pounds under what I'd like to see.

Your thought process is pretty good if had he had never played safety before.. he was a safety in HS and his first year in college so it is not like we would be asking him to play a position like punter, FG kicker, as the extreme to this or running back as the less extreme..

I think it would be wrong not to try him, frankly after watching Fox trying to play deep safety WW could also probably play FS better.. He is a gifted athlete and IMO you try and get them on the field opposed to setting on the bench behind DJ..

When all the "starters" were playing earlier in the year we sucked on D since the young turks are in there we are at least making the tackles some for loss..

Essentially in mikeys LB oriented defense the SS plays primarily at the LOS as the 8th in the box.. an extra LB is the simplest way to call it.. If it is a nickle situation then he could come off the field and allow another CB to come on.. Frankly I think he is smart, fast enough to pick up anything thrown at him..

[LRtagger]

The same argument didnt apply to Foxworth. The play of the safeties went down with he in there.

Your argument is simplified. "He plays behind the LOS" is all what you are saying.. He has different role than he is used to in a cover 1, cover 2, cover 3 scheme, way different than at lb. If we play man, two man zone he is supposed to never let a receiver behind him. A little different than for the linebacker role? One misread, like one playaction and they are in a one on one match up which executed isbasically a given big play. Do the same misread as a WILL and it is a given ten/fifteen yard gain. Not a given td like the other example.

I think your argument is so oversimplified. it starts with he is a great player and pretty much ends with thus he must play a different position. Then you say he will succeed and if not the coaches cannot put our players in a position to succeed.

What does Foxworth have to do with it? He was a corner...and much too small and not aggressive enough to play SS.

Think about the past two SS that were good on this team - John Lynch and Steve Atwater. Both of those guys about Woodyard's size and both probably slower than WW. Atwater and Lynch were linebackers that were listed as safeties. Lynch was terrible in coverage, yet he brought fire to the defense and didnt let the RB get past him. How many times this year have you seen both of our safeties get run over by a RB? Atwater was decent in coverage, not great, but he brought the wood in the box and no WR dared cross the middle with him lurking. We could have the same thing in WW....something we have been sorely lacking this year.

Even if we called the defense a 4-4-3, it would still basically be the same set we are playing now, but just take Manuel out of the box and replace him with WW. On third down, take WW out and put in a corner.

[haroldthebarrel]

What does Foxworth have to do with it? He was a corner...and much too small and not aggressive enough to play SS.

Think about the past two SS that were good on this team - John Lynch and Steve Atwater. Both of those guys about Woodyard's size and both probably slower than WW. Atwater and Lynch were linebackers that were listed as safeties. Lynch was terrible in coverage, yet he brought fire to the defense and didnt let the RB get past him. How many times this year have you seen both of our safeties get run over by a RB? Atwater was decent in coverage, not great, but he brought the wood in the box and no WR dared cross the middle with him lurking. We could have the same thing in WW....something we have been sorely lacking this year.

Even if we called the defense a 4-4-3, it would still basically be the same set we are playing now, but just take Manuel out of the box and replace him with WW. On third down, take WW out and put in a corner.

The past experiments hasnt panned out have they? I listed several others than just foxworth in another post, too bad you didnt read that.

Lynch wasnt that bad in coverage. If i recall right he scored high by the staff and KC Joyners stats. Mediator at the orangemane confirms that.

And again what I disagree with is that you basically just say he can be thrown into another role, a role much more complex both from past experience but also since playing safety is harder than linebacker.
Yet your basic arguments is the body type and athleticism. None arguments whatsoever on the mental transition. Just presumptions that he plays linebacker instinctly so he will play SS instinctly.
Did it ever occur to any of you the reason he plays the WILL instinctly is because he has played it for years and dont think just reacts.
your arguments are so superficial.
Surely you cannot believe he will transition to the SS positions with no problems whatsoever?
I mean I dont know how he will do, but the arguments presented are presumptious, superficial and you can do better by arguing much better than that.

[LRtagger]

The past experiments hasnt panned out have they? I listed several others than just foxworth in another post, too bad you didnt read that.

Lynch wasnt that bad in coverage. If i recall right he scored high by the staff and KC Joyners stats. Mediator at the orangemane confirms that.

And again what I disagree with is that you basically just say he can be thrown into another role, a role much more complex both from past experience but also since playing safety is harder than linebacker.
Yet your basic arguments is the body type and athleticism. None arguments whatsoever on the mental transition. Just presumptions that he plays linebacker instinctly so he will play SS instinctly.
Did it ever occur to any of you the reason he plays the WILL instinctly is because he has played it for years and dont think just reacts.
your arguments are so superficial.
Surely you cannot believe he will transition to the SS positions with no problems whatsoever?
I mean I dont know how he will do, but the arguments presented are presumptious, superficial and you can do better by arguing much better than that.

Sorry, Foxworth was the only person you listed as a SAFETY experiment. I could care less about other players when the conversation is about safties.

The fact is WW played Safety in college...and played it well. Does he have the mindset to transition? ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT RIGHT???? But no, lets just sit him on the bench and let him make 2 or 3 special teams plays a game.

You realize WW went undrafted because he is a tweener...too small to play linebacker, but hasnt played safety in a couple years. It wouldnt take a whole lot to transition him to SS. I'm not saying we just plug him in there now, but an entire offseason of conditioning and learning and a season or two of experience and he could be a very good SS IMO. But, dont most rookies need to learn and experience the NFL game anyways before they are good or great?

The fact that he has the body and athletic skillset to play safety is critical in making a decision on trying him out there. Who knows if he has the mindset to play safety? I don't, you don't, Mikey doesn't, hell even Wes might not know....but how else is anyone going to find out?

What makes you think moving him to MIKE or SAM is going to be any easier than being the 8th man in the box as a safety? Just because DJ can do it, doesnt mean any and everybody can. At least if he is a safety in the box he has more freedom and will play more like a WILL.

The good thing about WW is that he is still young, so we have time to transition him to safety over the next offseason. And the fact that he does have experience there, no matter how limited, is a good foundation to build upon.

Even if he fails as a safety, he cant be any worse than what is out there now...and then at least we would KNOW that he cant play safety in the NFL and can move him back to 2nd string LB and ST ace.

[haroldthebarrel]

Sorry, Foxworth was the only person you listed as a SAFETY experiment. I could care less about other players when the conversation is about safties.

The fact is WW played Safety in college...and played it well. Does he have the mindset to transition? ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT RIGHT???? But no, lets just sit him on the bench and let him make 2 or 3 special teams plays a game.

You realize WW went undrafted because he is a tweener...too small to play linebacker, but hasnt played safety in a couple years. It wouldnt take a whole lot to transition him to SS. I'm not saying we just plug him in there now, but an entire offseason of conditioning and learning and a season or two of experience and he could be a very good SS IMO. But, dont most rookies need to learn and experience the NFL game anyways before they are good or great?

The fact that he has the body and athletic skillset to play safety is critical in making a decision on trying him out there. Who knows if he has the mindset to play safety? I don't, you don't, Mikey doesn't, hell even Wes might not know....but how else is anyone going to find out?

What makes you think moving him to MIKE or SAM is going to be any easier than being the 8th man in the box as a safety? Just because DJ can do it, doesnt mean any and everybody can. At least if he is a safety in the box he has more freedom and will play more like a WILL.

The good thing about WW is that he is still young, so we have time to transition him to safety over the next offseason. And the fact that he does have experience there, no matter how limited, is a good foundation to build upon.

Even if he fails as a safety, he cant be any worse than what is out there now...and then at least we would KNOW that he cant play safety in the NFL and can move him back to 2nd string LB and ST ace.

To answer the MIKe and Sam question. The reads are more the same. Though I never said he should play the Mike.

The reads are completely different at safety, and you know that. If you are in a zone, the reads are different at safety than at any linebacker position.
The game at pro level is more mental than physical.
Most big plays are the result of people not doing their jobs and missed assignments than a coaching error.
I am not sure about it either. I think the experiment could be tried if we lock up the division early, and then we might know.
Still, your arguments were so shallow and bombastic up until this post which was more readable when you did the effort.

And to hear people go more football in depth is kinda refreshing on this site.

[Lonestar]

The past experiments hasnt panned out have they? I listed several others than just foxworth in another post, too bad you didnt read that.

Lynch wasnt that bad in coverage. If i recall right he scored high by the staff and KC Joyners stats. Mediator at the orangemane confirms that.

And again what I disagree with is that you basically just say he can be thrown into another role, a role much more complex both from past experience but also since playing safety is harder than linebacker.
Yet your basic arguments is the body type and athleticism. None arguments whatsoever on the mental transition. Just presumptions that he plays linebacker instinctly so he will play SS instinctly.
Did it ever occur to any of you the reason he plays the WILL instinctly is because he has played it for years and dont think just reacts.
your arguments are so superficial.
Surely you cannot believe he will transition to the SS positions with no problems whatsoever?
I mean I dont know how he will do, but the arguments presented are presumptious, superficial and you can do better by arguing much better than that.

Absolutely no one is saying there will not be growing pains but the skells we have now are not doing the job anyway..

Better to have a great athlete that has played the position in the past than that in this case knows where the door to the urinal is. Allow him to learn the finer points on the Safety position this year and IF he is not the man for the job then we draft one.. and allow the rookies to get OJT that same as we would with Woodyard this year..

NOW ONE EXPECTS him to step in and be an al pro safety next week..

But he has the size, speed, tackling and cover skills to do the job..
Better he plays somewhere the rest of the year once DJ is back than warm the bench this year and next....

The odds of him being able to put 20-25 pounds on and keep his speed are slim and NADA.. He came in at 230 and is now down to 212.. Just about the right size for a SS..

[haroldthebarrel]

Absolutely no one is saying there will not be growing pains but the skells we have now are not doing the job anyway..

Better to have a great athlete that has played the position in the past than that in this case knows where the door to the urinal is. Allow him to learn the finer points on the Safety position this year and IF he is not the man for the job then we draft one.. and allow the rookies to get OJT that same as we would with Woodyard this year..

NOW ONE EXPECTS him to step in and be an al pro safety next week..

But he has the size, speed, tackling and cover skills to do the job..
Better he plays somewhere the rest of the year once DJ is back than warm the bench this year and next....

The odds of him being able to put 20-25 pounds on and keep his speed are slim and NADA.. He came in at 230 and is now down to 212.. Just about the right size for a SS..

see now you are being presumptuous again. If he had all that he would been there already. At least been drafted as a safety.
You take out the cover skills and I agree. That is the unknown yet you just presume.

Your argument is still basically;
1. our safeties suck
2. Dj will come back
3. WW should play safety because the safeties suck so bad and DJ is a better will.
And then you just state things like he has the cover skills to do it, which you have absolutely no foundation to base upon.

Your basic argument is not bad at all. You just throw around presumptions instead of giving better arguments to fount it. And I have read you do that much better many times already. Lets have a good football discussion.

I also doubt the "he wont gain weight argument". Everybody can gain weight. Jarvis Moss was rail thin and a naturally thin body type. WW doesnt have near that body type. He rather looks like one who will grow into his body.

[BeefStew25]

see now you are being presumptious again. If he had all that he would been there already. At least been drafted as a safety.
You take out the cover skills and I agree. That is the unknown yet you just presume.

I also doubt the he wont gain weight argument. Everybody can gain weight. Jarvis Moss was rail thin and a naturally thin body type. WW doesnt have near that body type. He rather looks like one who will grow into his body.
Your argument is still basically;
1. our safeties suck
2. Dj will come back
3. WW should play safety because the safeties suck so bad and DJ is a better will.
And then you just state things like he has the cover skills to do it, which you have absolutely no foundation to base upon.

Your basic argument is not bad at all. You just throw around presumptions instead of giving better arguments to fount it. And I have read you do that much better many times already. Lets have a good football discussion.


Post of the year. Jr?

[gobroncsnv]

Urlacher was a safety in college... pretty sure that he's worked out in such a way that the Bears wouldn't have any qualms about having a player change positions. (now I don't see anywhere in what I just said that equates Woodyard with Urlacher, but if you can find it....)
I think Double W would be a large upgrade at safety over Manuel, and put a little bit more fear in those running crossing patterns, along with creating some gator arms, on opposing WR's. Looks like a Win Win to me.

[BeefStew25]

Urlacher was a safety in college... pretty sure that he's worked out in such a way that the Bears wouldn't have any qualms about having a player change positions. (now I don't see anywhere in what I just said that equates Woodyard with Urlacher, but if you can find it....)
I think Double W would be a large upgrade at safety over Manuel, and put a little bit more fear in those running crossing patterns, along with creating some gator arms, on opposing WR's. Looks like a Win Win to me.

Urlacher was everything in college. He returned punts. Mostly on defense he was like a centerfield dude who punished the run.

[Lonestar]

see now you are being presumptuous again. If he had all that he would been there already. At least been drafted as a safety.
You take out the cover skills and I agree. That is the unknown yet you just presume.

Your argument is still basically;
1. our safeties suck
2. Dj will come back
3. WW should play safety because the safeties suck so bad and DJ is a better will.And then you just state things like he has the cover skills to do it, which you have absolutely no foundation to base upon.

Your basic argument is not bad at all. You just throw around presumptions instead of giving better arguments to fount it. And I have read you do that much better many times already. Lets have a good football discussion.

I also doubt the "he wont gain weight argument". Everybody can gain weight. Jarvis Moss was rail thin and a naturally thin body type. WW doesnt have near that body type. He rather looks like one who will grow into his body.


1. Do you think our safeties do not suck?
2. Do you think DJ will not come back?
3. Do you think WW is better at WLB than DJ?



If you answered anything but YES on any of those Questions Then you need to apply to CIN for their HC job..

I have heard no one on this forum that thinks our safeties could not be upgraded by bringing someone in off the street to try out.. :laugh::laugh:

IF WW went into the combine at 220+ and came on board in DEN at 230+.. and he now weighs 212 (by his own admission) what gives you any idea he can put the weight on and keep it on?.. If he is unable to keep his muscle mass up above the 220 mark he will have a tough time at best even playing safety, let alone WLB, certainly not SLB and without any doubt whatsoever MLB..

Some folks can't get past a certain weight after exercise and certanily not a 20+ game season..

I maintain that WW COULD BE a better SS than either of the skells we currently have playing the position.. I repeat COULD BE..

But until given a chance to prove it we may never know..

Now you ask why does mikey not do so?

Hell I do not know but I'd sure give him a shot at it before the end of the year so we Know for certain if we have to draft or go FA hunting.. of course we did that last year and everyone on this forum but you seems to think OUR safeties SUCK..

If you can not see the logic to the above we will have to agree to disagree on this subject..

[Nick]

After seeing him on The Jay Cutler show I am convinced he should be a strong safety.

(Especially since we have two of the worst safeties in the league)

Good size for safety, small for LB.

Thoughts ?


That is what every college team wanted him to play as. That is why he went to Vandy, because he got the oppurtunity to play QB.

It does look like he is looking to hit someone out there :lol:

[haroldthebarrel]

1. Do you think our safeties do not suck?
2. Do you think DJ will not come back?
3. Do you think WW is better at WLB than DJ?



If you answered anything but YES on any of those Questions Then you need to apply to CIN for their HC job..

I have heard no one on this forum that thinks our safeties could not be upgraded by bringing someone in off the street to try out.. :laugh::laugh:

IF WW went into the combine at 220+ and came on board in DEN at 230+.. and he now weighs 212 (by his own admission) what gives you any idea he can put the weight on and keep it on?.. If he is unable to keep his muscle mass up above the 220 mark he will have a tough time at best even playing safety, let alone WLB, certainly not SLB and without any doubt whatsoever MLB..

Some folks can't get past a certain weight after exercise and certanily not a 20+ game season..

I maintain that WW COULD BE a better SS than either of the skells we currently have playing the position.. I repeat COULD BE..

But until given a chance to prove it we may never know..

Now you ask why does mikey not do so?

Hell I do not know but I'd sure give him a shot at it before the end of the year so we Know for certain if we have to draft or go FA hunting.. of course we did that last year and everyone on this forum but you seems to think OUR safeties SUCK..

If you can not see the logic to the above we will have to agree to disagree on this subject..

As I said I dont necessarily disagree on the topic.
Right now I dont know. What I do know is that you don't present me any convincing arguments.
Remember we brought in free agents to play safety and along with Rogers they all played worse.

"Hell I do not know but I'd sure give him a shot at it before the end of the year so we Know for certain if we have to draft or go FA hunting.. of course we did that last year and everyone on this forum but you seems to think OUR safeties SUCK.."

These are the typical cheap and presumptuous arguments you present.
Where did I ever say our safeties dont suck? I have never said it, but I am saying that he wont necessarily be a good safety. And the reason to this are as follows.
1. While he has the physical and athletic skills do be a good safety, we know that the position is dependent upon the ability to read plays.
2. We have a young defense who makes a helluva lot of mental mistakes.
Both the long plays by Thomas Jones were a lack of containment and a lack of playing the ball until the whistle is blown.
3. We have not with this coaching staff nor for five years with different coaches been able to put a player in a different position at all and have him succeed.
4. There is reason to believe the coaching staff wont be here very long, and thus we are taking a risk developing him even more since a new staff will likely bring a different playbook. That usually sets the development back at least a half year for any player not to mention rookies playing a new position.
5. And finally, as I said I dont disagree with experimenting with him at the end of the season if we are playoff bound. I sure as hell wont like to have him play SS vs Peyton Manning in the playoffs.

[Lonestar]

As I said I dont necessarily disagree on the topic.
Right now I dont know. What I do know is that you don't present me any convincing arguments.
Remember we brought in free agents to play safety and along with Rogers they all played worse.

"Hell I do not know but I'd sure give him a shot at it before the end of the year so we Know for certain if we have to draft or go FA hunting.. of course we did that last year and everyone on this forum but you seems to think OUR safeties SUCK.."

These are the typical cheap and presumptuous arguments you present.
Where did I ever say our safeties dont suck? I have never said it, but I am saying that he wont necessarily be a good safety. And the reason to this are as follows.
1. While he has the physical and athletic skills do be a good safety, we know that the position is dependent upon the ability to read plays.
2. We have a young defense who makes a helluva lot of mental mistakes.
Both the long plays by Thomas Jones were a lack of containment and a lack of playing the ball until the whistle is blown.
3. We have not with this coaching staff nor for five years with different coaches been able to put a player in a different position at all and have him succeed.
4. There is reason to believe the coaching staff wont be here very long, and thus we are taking a risk developing him even more since a new staff will likely bring a different playbook. That usually sets the development back at least a half year for any player not to mention rookies playing a new position.
5. And finally, as I said I dont disagree with experimenting with him at the end of the season if we are playoff bound. I sure as hell wont like to have him play SS vs Peyton Manning in the playoffs.

as I said we will HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE..

[NameUsedBefore]

Urlacher also paints his kid's toenails and dresses him in pink diapers. Let's keep that weirdo out of this.

[smith49]

well i dont care what anyone says about it. if the guy can make big plays, which i think he can, he should be on the field. wether it be at lb or at ss. i like the guy, i love his speed, and the fire he seems to bring with him on the field. remember, speed kills and hes got it.

fact is, i could get open on manuel or macree. i think i could get open on either one or both at the same time. they are CRAP. soooo if woodyard can do better put him in. if he is better at lb put him there. hell, just put the kid in the game and watch him work. it will be worth it. he will bring the WOOD.

[Superchop 7]

Here's a thought.

Woodyard could line up over the tight end.

If it's a running play......play the run.

If it's a passing play......cover the tight end. (or in my scheme....the TE is never allowed off the line)

You don't have to be mensa to play SS.

I think he could handle it.

[OldschoolFreak]

I've got to agree with JR. There is such a thing as football intangibles and, on defense, a pure mean streak/desire to crush someone that goes beyond measurables and draft projections. Get the football players on the field. Yes, it's a bit of a longshot but I'd say a gamble with good potential upside and not much downside.

Plus, Harold, dude, you seem to be a bit angry and dogmatic about this one, no?

[haroldthebarrel]

I've got to agree with JR. There is such a thing as football intangibles and, on defense, a pure mean streak/desire to crush someone that goes beyond measurables and draft projections. Get the football players on the field. Yes, it's a bit of a longshot but I'd say a gamble with good potential upside and not much downside.

Plus, Harold, dude, you seem to be a bit angry and dogmatic about this one, no?

What?

I have said only two things.
1. I dont know if he would succeed.
2. I think the arguments presented are superficial and shallow. Not enough to convince me.

I wanted to continue the argument and have a good football discussion.. He wanted to agree to disagree.
And that is where it ended.

[Lonestar]

well i dont care what anyone says about it. if the guy can make big plays, which i think he can, he should be on the field. wether it be at lb or at ss. i like the guy, i love his speed, and the fire he seems to bring with him on the field. remember, speed kills and hes got it.

fact is, i could get open on manuel or macree. i think i could get open on either one or both at the same time. they are CRAP. soooo if woodyard can do better put him in. if he is better at lb put him there. hell, just put the kid in the game and watch him work. it will be worth it. he will bring the WOOD.

pardon the pun..

[haroldthebarrel]

Here's a thought.

Woodyard could line up over the tight end.

If it's a running play......play the run.

If it's a passing play......cover the tight end. (or in my scheme....the TE is never allowed off the line)

You don't have to be mensa to play SS.

I think he could handle it.

And that would be ideal if you wanted to play cover one or any man alignment.
But we do play a log of zone and cover 2/3 which makes the transition to him a lot steeper than it would otherwise.

I personally wouldnt mind him becoming a great safety. But I think the warning signs are there that this experiment is very risky. He hasnt played it for three years. He will play it and learn it as a pro, which is a lot more difficult than in college.
And three, I dont believe we have either the coaching staff nor the veterans to help him make that transition. Especially if we go with a new one.

[Lonestar]

And that would be ideal if you wanted to play cover one or any man alignment.
But we do play a log of zone and cover 2/3 which makes the transition to him a lot steeper than it would otherwise.

I personally wouldnt mind him becoming a great safety. But I think the warning signs are there that this experiment is very risky. He hasnt played it for three years. He will play it and learn it as a pro, which is a lot more difficult than in college.
And three, I dont believe we have either the coaching staff nor the veterans to help him make that transition. Especially if we go with a new one.


On this I will agree with you but then I'm not seeing the coaching staff doing much to help the veterans either so this point seems a bit of a draw...

[haroldthebarrel]

On this I will agree with you but then I'm not seeing the coaching staff doing much to help the veterans either so this point seems a bit of a draw...

It is not winning the argument with you I have the slightest interest in, Jrwiz.
What I want is to challenge you to have a good football discussion.

[Lonestar]

It is not winning the argument with you I have the slightest interest in, Jrwiz.
What I want is to challenge you to have a good football discussion.

Sometimes I have the time, sometimes I do not now is the NOT time..

[Superchop 7]

How many times have I told you guys that with Champ Bailey on the field we SHOULD PLAY THE HELL OUT OF COVER 1 ?????

Just sayin.

Other than that......you have a point.

That being said....

I have no doubt that WW has the heart, brains, and instincts to be a very good safety.

[gobroncsnv]

And beyond all of that, the guy can tackle... I believe that is important, too... Stuff that our veteran safeties could learn.