Rahim Moore fined $20,000 by NFL for hit

[Tned]

Not too surprising with new rules.


RT @9NEWSSports: #Broncos safety Rahim Moore fined $20,000 by NFL for hit Saturday night against the Buffalo Bills.

If you look at this video, you will see Moore ducked his head and hit the WR under the chin.

dpiZWuiUl3I

[Dzone]

Hope this doesnt dampen the kids enthusiasm to knock the shit out of people. I like Rahim Moore. I think he is going to have an impact this year.

[underrated29]

Weak Sauce....


100% a PR move. Guaranteed!

[Nick]

Hopefully Pat Bowlen, floats him a little check

[Northman]

Yea, pretty weak but expected.

[Davii]

Hopefully Pat Bowlen, floats him a little check

I don't believe that's allowed. The fine is ridiculous, it's evident on the replay that he led with his shoulder. Yes there was helmet contact, but the NFL needs to be realistic, that's why they wear helmets after all.

[DenBronx]

I too am worried tha Moore confidence to hit someone will disapate.

The hit looked totally clean to me. The team should rally and help him split the cost.

Keep knocking people on their ass Moore. :salute:

[UnderArmour]

Bullshit fine for something that wasn't malicious and wasn't a repeat offender. Bullshit fine because he led with his shoulder. Tired of Goddell trying to turn the NFL into a pillow fight. In the rules video all of the highlights of what "make the game great" were offensive scoring plays. I don't want to watch a track meet, I want to watch people knock the living hell out of each other.

[vandammage13]

The NFL was much better when I was growing up...This softness is getting rediculous.

[Thnikkaman]

Hopefully Pat Bowlen, floats him a little check

Or the rest of the team chips in.

[Tned]

Like the rule or not, but based on the current rules, that was an illegal hit and both the foul and penalty are appropriate.

Now, I don't like the rule, but that's a completely different issue.


Players will be prohibited from "launching" (leaving both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into an opponent or using any part of the helmet to initiate forcible contact against any part of the opponent’s body) to level a defenseless player, as well as "forcibly hitting the neck or head area with the helmet, facemask, forearm or shoulder regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him.", and lowering the head and make forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/"hairline" parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body. Offenders will be penalized 15 yards for unnecessary roughness and ejected from the game if the contact is deemed flagrant.

[MOtorboat]

Like the rule or not, but based on the current rules, that was an illegal hit and both the foul and penalty are appropriate.

Now, I don't like the rule, but that's a completely different issue.


Players will be prohibited from "launching" (leaving both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into an opponent or using any part of the helmet to initiate forcible contact against any part of the opponent’s body) to level a defenseless player, as well as "forcibly hitting the neck or head area with the helmet, facemask, forearm or shoulder regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him.", and lowering the head and make forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/"hairline" parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body. Offenders will be penalized 15 yards for unnecessary roughness and ejected from the game if the contact is deemed flagrant.

I totally agree. The rule sucks. But its the rule. This year, players that are in the air, and do not have the ball (and even in some cases where they do have the ball) and are hit high, will result in penalties on the defense. The ball was past the reciever and the reciever was in the air.

Correct call.

Bad rule.

[Davii]

Like the rule or not, but based on the current rules, that was an illegal hit and both the foul and penalty are appropriate.

Now, I don't like the rule, but that's a completely different issue.

The only part I see that I think applies is leaving his feet to make the tackle

[TXBRONC]

I thought it would be more.

[CoachChaz]

Here's my question. If every player that gets hit with a fine is opposed to this rule, then why isnt a complaint filed by the NFLPA to have the ruled changed? I'm sure the offensive players would disagree, but the NFL is composed of more defensive players than from the offensive side. I'd imagine a player vote would be a majority in favor of voting for rule changes.

I'm ok with the safety aspect of things to a certain degree, but if I get pushed into a QB's knees or have a receiver duck on me...and it costs me 20-50k...I'm raising holy hell.

[NightTerror218]

his shoulder looked close to the helmet and was hard to say.

[Agent of Orange]

Like the rule or not, but based on the current rules, that was an illegal hit and both the foul and penalty are appropriate.

Now, I don't like the rule, but that's a completely different issue.

Accorning to that, its debateable whether it broke the rules. The contact by Moore was shoulder to breast plate. The helmet to helmet contact actually came from Jones.

[Tned]

The only part I see that I think applies is leaving his feet to make the tackle

I just rewatched about a half dozen replays before posting that, to make sure my memory was correct. It isn't the launching, but the part I highlighted.

Yes, you can argue he led with his helmet, but that means absolutely nothing, because a fraction of a second after his shoulder hit, his helmet hit the receivers. That's all that matters.

Like the roughing the passer calls last year when the defender hit the QB shoulder to shoulder, but then his forearm slid up the QB's forearm and hit him in the side of the head. We saw plenty of those. Granted, this year they have modified the roughing the passer rule so that if the blow isn't a "forcible blow" it is no longer a penalty.

In one of the other threads I posted a quote from the Falcons President who is also on the competition committee, and he said that the rule will require defenders to hit/tackle at the numbers, or lower to avoid defenseless receiver penalties (paraphrasing, as I don't have the quote handy).

As I said, like the rule or not, which is a separate issue, but this is EXACTLY the type of hit the rule is designed to eliminate, which is why the competition committee guy said what he did.

[Tned]

Accorning to that, its debateable whether it broke the rules. The contact by Moore was shoulder to breast plate. The helmet to helmet contact actually came from Jones.

It doesn't work that way. Moore put his helmet in that spot. It's impossible to tell whether the helmet to helmet was from Jones' head coming down (as a result of Moore's hit) or Moore's helmet continuing forward with his momentum, or a combination. However, it is irrelevant, because the rule doesn't absolve him based on where his 'first' contact was.

Bottom line is it was a defenseless receiver, and Moore made forcible contact with his head.

[TXBRONC]

his shoulder looked close to the helmet and was hard to say.

I bet the reason he got fined his becaus he left his feet when he hit the receiver.

[Northman]

I just rewatched about a half dozen replays before posting that, to make sure my memory was correct. It isn't the launching, but the part I highlighted.

Yes, you can argue he led with his helmet, but that means absolutely nothing, because a fraction of a second after his shoulder hit, his helmet hit the receivers. That's all that matters.

Like the roughing the passer calls last year when the defender hit the QB shoulder to shoulder, but then his forearm slid up the QB's forearm and hit him in the side of the head. We saw plenty of those. Granted, this year they have modified the roughing the passer rule so that if the blow isn't a "forcible blow" it is no longer a penalty.

In one of the other threads I posted a quote from the Falcons President who is also on the competition committee, and he said that the rule will require defenders to hit/tackle at the numbers, or lower to avoid defenseless receiver penalties (paraphrasing, as I don't have the quote handy).

As I said, like the rule or not, which is a separate issue, but this is EXACTLY the type of hit the rule is designed to eliminate, which is why the competition committee guy said what he did.

Its obvious its a very poor rule.

[slim]

I'm going to need a definition of "defenseless".

[MOtorboat]

The receiver was defenseless because he was not in possession of the football and he was in the air...

[Northman]

The receiver was defenseless because he was not in possession of the football and he was in the air...

Yea, he should of let him come down with the catch first.

[MOtorboat]

Yea, he should of let him come down with the catch first.

Them's the new rules...it sucks, but it is the rule.

[slim]

The receiver was defenseless because he was not in possession of the football and he was in the air...

So you have to let the receiver catch the ball before you can hit them?

That doesn't seem quite right.

[MOtorboat]

So you have to let the receiver catch the ball before you can hit them?

That doesn't seem quite right.

http://www.jsonline.mobi/sports/packers/126981193.html?ua=android&dc=smart&c=y

Hopefully that will link right, because I'm on my phone...but at the bottom of that article from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is some from an field judge at Packers camp.

Maybe someone could copy and paste that segment. I can't do it on my phone.

[NightTerror218]

Go team!!!!!!!!!!1

Vic Lombardi
@VicLombardi Vic Lombardi
By the way, Rahim Moore told me several of his teammates will help cover that 20k fine. I know Champ's digging into his wallet. #teamgame

[Agent of Orange]

It doesn't work that way. Moore put his helmet in that spot. It's impossible to tell whether the helmet to helmet was from Jones' head coming down (as a result of Moore's hit) or Moore's helmet continuing forward with his momentum, or a combination. However, it is irrelevant, because the rule doesn't absolve him based on where his 'first' contact was.

Bottom line is it was a defenseless receiver, and Moore made forcible contact with his head.


It think it's pretty clear. If you look at the helmet to helmet, it was also Jones' face going into the side of Moore's helmet. It seems the rule is stipulating ways you can make contact on a defenseless receiver and its doing it in a way where there should be no fine assessed.

[slim]

According to field judge Craig Wrolstad, the toughest challenge will be ruling on "defenseless players" because of all the things that must be considered. The NFL now defines a defenseless player as someone who completes a catch and establishes himself as a runner - in other words gets both feet down and makes a football move.

"It's a judgment call," Wrolstad said.

Previously, unnecessary contact against a defenseless player was defined only as an opponent launching himself and delivering a blow to the head. Now hits on defenseless players are illegal.



http://www.jsonline.mobi/sports/pack...d&dc=smart&c=y

That definition doesn't make any sense to me.

[Slick]

First time I've had a chance to see the play, watched it 4 times now bpth live action and slow mo...

I have to say it looked to me like he led with his shoulder and hit in the numbers area.

I don't agree with the flag or the fine.

I don't even like the term defenseless receiver. A poor throw that makes a receiver expose himself isn't the defenders fault, and the choice made by the receiver to go after it also isn't the defenders fault.

I think it is asking to much for these defensive players to worry to much about it instead of just playing the game. It's a violent sport, players get hurt, and that's why these guys make big bucks.

[Nomad]

So you have to let the receiver catch the ball before you can hit them?

That doesn't seem quite right.

Not really, I believe what the competition committee is looking for these guys to form tackle at the numbers and below and drive to the ground rather than hit up high knocking the shit out of the receiver to dislodge the ball.

I haven't seen too many people (fans and defensive players) who are thrilled with the rule, but what can you do. Perhaps this rule may be relaxed in time like the brushing of the QBs rule has:noidea:, until then it's back to the basic fundamentals of tackling.

[Tned]

Here's my question. If every player that gets hit with a fine is opposed to this rule, then why isnt a complaint filed by the NFLPA to have the ruled changed? I'm sure the offensive players would disagree, but the NFL is composed of more defensive players than from the offensive side. I'd imagine a player vote would be a majority in favor of voting for rule changes.

I'm ok with the safety aspect of things to a certain degree, but if I get pushed into a QB's knees or have a receiver duck on me...and it costs me 20-50k...I'm raising holy hell.

My understanding is that it's one of the things the Player reps negotiated in new CBA.

[Nomad]

My understanding is that it's one of the things the Player reps negotiated in new CBA.

Yep! Were they all offensive players?!?:lol:

[Northman]

Go team!!!!!!!!!!1

Vic Lombardi
@VicLombardi Vic Lombardi
By the way, Rahim Moore told me several of his teammates will help cover that 20k fine. I know Champ's digging into his wallet. #teamgame


Sweet. I know they were reassuring him and congratulating him on the sideline after the fact. He was just as baffled as i was.

[Tned]

First time I've had a chance to see the play, watched it 4 times now bpth live action and slow mo...

I have to say it looked to me like he led with his shoulder and hit in the numbers area.

I don't agree with the flag or the fine.

I don't even like the term defenseless receiver. A poor throw that makes a receiver expose himself isn't the defenders fault, and the choice made by the receiver to go after it also isn't the defenders fault.

I think it is asking to much for these defensive players to worry to much about it instead of just playing the game. It's a violent sport, players get hurt, and that's why these guys make big bucks.

I'm uploading a slow mo video for you guys now. Right before he made contact, Moore dips his head and hits the receiver under the chin with the crown of his helmet. Depending on the angle, it looks like the shoulder hits a fraction of a second before the helmet hits the chin, but it doesn't matter. It is clearly against the rules.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

"Those plays are going to happen from time to time," veteran safety Brian Dawkins​ said. "He already knows, but I told him that I got hit with a $50,000 dollar fine from that same type of a hit running full speed. It's one thing to be playing in slow motion and have hit somebody, and it's another thing to be full speed and hit somebody. It's a moving target. You've got to play your game and make decisions as you go."

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18749174

[Locnar]

I like my orange crush served hard not soft please..

[NightTerror218]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18749174?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29


I love the faces on the Bill's players

[I Eat Staples]

Like the rule or not, but based on the current rules, that was an illegal hit and both the foul and penalty are appropriate.

Now, I don't like the rule, but that's a completely different issue.

Exactly. The enforcement of the rule isn't the problem, the problem is the rule itself. A rule to protect "defenseless receivers" is complete bullshit. Its your job as an NFL player to not be defenseless. Breaking up passes becomes even harder considering you're barely allowed to touch receivers now.

[Slick]

I'm uploading a slow mo video for you guys now. Right before he made contact, Moore dips his head and hits the receiver under the chin with the crown of his helmet. Depending on the angle, it looks like the shoulder hits a fraction of a second before the helmet hits the chin, but it doesn't matter. It is clearly against the rules.

Please do Tned. From what I saw, it looked like his shoulder made contact with the sternum area, the numbers, before anything else.

Maybe Moore should have taken his helmet off while the ball was in the air so it wouldn't get in the way.

[Tned]

Please do Tned. From what I saw, it looked like his shoulder made contact with the sternum area, the numbers, before anything else.

Maybe Moore should have taken his helmet off while the ball was in the air so it wouldn't get in the way.

This angle is all the league needed to fine him. It shows (might want to go full screen in the HD version) that Moore dips his head forward and puts his helmet under Jones chin. Gonna get fined every time, possibly even under the old rules. Ask John Lynch.

dpiZWuiUl3I

[Slick]

When I watch that Tned, it looks to me like Moore's even trying to pull back his helmet to get it out of the way.

[Tned]

When I watch that Tned, it looks to me like Moore's even trying to pull back his helmet to get it out of the way.

He's turning it to the left to protect himself, which puts the crown under the WR's head.

In today's NFL, you cannot put your helmet under the chin of a WR reaching for a ball. It sucks he's a Bronco, but it's going to be a fine every time.

[Northman]

It still shouldnt be. He did everything possible in that situation EXCEPT let him catch it. People can bark all day its against the rules but its a garbage rule. Its getting worse and worse in terms of where the league is going. Shit, they are allowed more leeway in the Arena league now and thats a smaller field. lmao

[spikerman]

I have to admit that if I'm officiating and I see that hit, it's going to draw a flag every time.

Before they levied the fine, I guarantee the NFL studied the film even more closely than the members of the BF (if that's possible) and they obviously thought it was illegal. We (well not me :) ) can disagree with the rule and that's fine, but the NFL's action today confirms that what Moore did violated the rule as written.

[Tned]

It still shouldnt be. He did everything possible in that situation EXCEPT let him catch it. People can bark all day its against the rules but its a garbage rule. Its getting worse and worse in terms of where the league is going. Shit, they are allowed more leeway in the Arena league now and thats a smaller field. lmao

North, he stuck his helmet under the guys chin, which snapped his head back. After looking at it more clearly, it's obvious it would have been a fine without the changes to this year's rules.

[BeefStew25]

This is the path to setting a tone. Pass the hat, locker room. And channel your inner Al Wilson.

[spikerman]

North, he stuck his helmet under the guys chin, which snapped his head back. After looking at it more clearly, it's obvious it would have been a fine without the changes to this year's rules.

That's how I saw it too. In another thread I mentioned that I thought it was pretty obvious that he hit with the helmet (even though it would have been a flag even if he didn't) and this replay just confirms it.

[Northman]

North, he stuck his helmet under the guys chin, which snapped his head back. After looking at it more clearly, it's obvious it would have been a fine without the changes to this year's rules.

Dude, ive played that position. (i know, i sound like Top now but...) When your going that fast and your trying to impede a player from catching a pass there is no way when you throw your shoulder into a guy that your going to avoid some helmet to helmet contact. No way. He could of undercut the guy but then that probably would hurt the guy even more. Im sorry Tned, i dont agree at all with you here and i dont agree with the rule. Even when i look back to the Lynch hit on Hall its like the league was expecting John to have air brakes. The only reason Hall never caught that pass is BECAUSE he saw Lynch coming. But Lynch didnt know he would drop it. How could he?

Anyway, we agree to disagree. While you may be right in terms of the rules in place they are very poor rules and as Dawkins says its very hard to sit there in a split second and worry about your head placement. Its football, its a rough sport and there is some risk involved. But to handtie the defenders like this is stupid.

[Slick]

He's turning it to the left to protect himself, which puts the crown under the WR's head.

In today's NFL, you cannot put your helmet under the chin of a WR reaching for a ball. It sucks he's a Bronco, but it's going to be a fine every time.

The receiver put his chin on Moore's helmet after Moore knocked the shit out of him in the sternum, with his shoulder. No way I can look at that replay and say that Moore intentionally tried to get his chin with the helmet.

What happens after the initial blow isn't Moore's fault, and the NFL is asking way too much from these defensive players.

The rule is what it is, I'm not arguing the rule.

[Tned]

Dude, ive played that position. (i know, i sound like Top now but...) When your going that fast and your trying to impede a player from catching a pass there is no way when you throw your shoulder into a guy that your going to avoid some helmet to helmet contact. No way. He could of undercut the guy but then that probably would hurt the guy even more.

All valid points, Top. ;)


Im sorry Tned, i dont agree at all with you here and i dont agree with the rule.

I have to stop you here, because those are two completely opposing views. I don't agree with the rule, but the fact is he violated the rule. Did he make forcible contact with "the neck or head area with the helmet, facemask, forearm or shoulder"?

The answer is yes, so therefore he violated the rule. It has nothing to do with whether or not it would have been easy to not make contact.

Again, this is why the Falcon's President said it will forever change the way players tackle, requiring them to hit at the numbers or below to avoid getting penalized.


Even when i look back to the Lynch hit on Hall its like the league was expecting John to have air brakes. The only reason Hall never caught that pass is BECAUSE he saw Lynch coming. But Lynch didnt know he would drop it. How could he?

Agreed. I didn't like the fine at the time and that one in slow motion was much more a shoulder to shoulder than it was head to head like this one.


Anyway, we agree to disagree. While you may be right in terms of the rules in place they are very poor rules and as Dawkins says its very hard to sit there in a split second and worry about your head placement. Its football, its a rough sport and there is some risk involved. But to handtie the defenders like this is stupid.

As I said, I don't like the rule, all I've said is that based on the rules in place, the penalty and fine are correct.

To be honest, the problem is that you are having trouble separating the act as it relates to the rule from the act in terms of the violent sport of football and how the game has been played for many decades.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

VicLombardi Vic Lombardi
By the way, Rahim Moore told me several of his teammates will help cover that 20k fine. I know Champ's digging into his wallet. #teamgame
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/vicLombardi

[Tned]

The receiver put his chin on Moore's helmet after Moore knocked the shit out of him in the sternum, with his shoulder. No way I can look at that replay and say that Moore intentionally tried to get his chin with the helmet.

What happens after the initial blow isn't Moore's fault, and the NFL is asking way too much from these defensive players.

The rule is what it is, I'm not arguing the rule.

Unfortunately, "fault" doesn't matter. You can't say the receiver put his chin on Moore's helmet. That's like when Rod Smith got ejected from the game years ago, we were to claim that the ref put his face on Smith's fist. It might have been an accident but Smith swung and his fist contacted the ref, he was ejected.

Here, Moore went after what the league now calls a defenseless receiver and he put the top of his helmet under the receivers chin.

Foul and penalty. Clear cut. Let's just be glad there is no suspension.

[Northman]

All valid points, Top. ;)



I have to stop you here, because those are two completely opposing views. I don't agree with the rule, but the fact is he violated the rule. Did he make forcibly contact with "the neck or head area with the helmet, facemask, forearm or shoulder regardless"?

The answer is yes, so therefore he violated the rule. It has nothing to do with whether or not it would have been easy to not make contact.

Again, this is why the Falcon's President said it will forever change the way players tackle, requiring them to hit at the numbers or below to avoid getting penalized.



Agreed. I didn't like the fine at the time and that one in slow motion was much more a shoulder to shoulder than it was head to head like this one.



As I said, I don't like the rule, all I've said is that based on the rules in place, the penalty and fine are correct.

To be honest, the problem is that you are having trouble separating the act as it relates to the rule from the act in terms of the violent sport of football and how the game has been played for many decades.

Yea, im not even sure i have a problem with the flags. But the fines are over the top for me. I will just keep bitching until they find a better system to determine this shit. Right now, that kid tried everything he could to not do it the wrong way and still got dinged. Too bad.

[Tned]

Yea, im not even sure i have a problem with the flags. But the fines are over the top for me. I will just keep bitching until they find a better system to determine this shit. Right now, that kid tried everything he could to not do it the wrong way and still got dinged. Too bad.

I just hope it doesn't make him gun shy. Don't get me wrong, my posts here are in regard the hit in relation to the rule. That doesn't mean I don't like what I saw. Hey, I want a Lynch, Smith, Atwater type guy in center field. I love what I saw from him, and hope he keeps it up. Got my ass pumped up.

[Slick]

Unfortunately, "fault" doesn't matter. You can't say the receiver put his chin on Moore's helmet. That's like when Rod Smith got ejected from the game years ago, we were to claim that the ref put his face on Smith's fist. It might have been an accident but Smith swung and his fist contacted the ref, he was ejected.

Here, Moore went after what the league now calls a defenseless receiver and he put the top of his helmet under the receivers chin.

Foul and penalty. Clear cut. Let's just be glad there is no suspension.

Okay. Let me re phrase because you're right. I worded it terribly and I almost edited my post.

The receiver's chin coming in contact with Moore's helmet is an unfortunate result of the initial hit of the receiver's sternum and Moore's shoulder.

I agree that the rule, as it stands, was properly enforced in this case.

I still think it's bull, and I still think the NFL is asking way too much from defenders.

[Tned]

Okay. Let me re phrase because you're right. I worded it terribly and I almost edited my post.

The receiver's chin coming in contact with Moore's helmet is an unfortunate result of the initial hit of the receiver's sternum and Moore's shoulder.

I agree that the rule, as it stands, was properly enforced in this case.

I still think it's bull, and I still think the NFL is asking way too much from defenders.

Agreed, it's asking too much.

[Bugs Baloney]

Here's what I saw, and I think many will agree,

It was a "bang bang" play. God forbid letting a safety try to
break up a pass :shocked:

[Tned]

Here's what I saw, and I think many will agree,

It was a "bang bang" play. God forbid letting a safety try to
break up a pass :shocked:

Not by God, Goodell...

[Slick]

check out Northman's thread on Vonta Leach's hit.

Granted, anytime a chief gets the snot knocked out of him is always amusing, it's kind of hypocritical isn't it?

I mean sure Vonta may break some bones in his neck ala Daryl Johnston, and that's a risk he takes playing like that. If the NFL is so concerned about player safety, why haven't they addressed that?





http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275847

I tried to find a higher quality video but to no avail.

[threefolddead]

After the game it appeared the Broncos players seemed to be ok with the calls and didn't care about it. They just said its part of today's game you just gotta go out there and get back to work. I'm not worried about it dampening his spirits.