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Dirk
08-23-2011, 06:59 PM
As some of you know, I am an Orton supporter. I think Orton is a very good QB but doesn't have the "it" factor. I think Tebow is a very raw QB but HAS the "it" factor.

But what grates me is how the sports media HATES on Tebow only because they don't want to be wrong. The media can influence most fans and it can influence those in the NFL as well. And they know it. Continuous hate on a player can make people start to believe whatever they say.

I believe that Tebow can be an NFL QB with an actual chance. I also believe that Quinn can be a starting NFL QB with an actual chance.

But what grates me the most is how they hate on Tebow.

I wish the Elway would go back to Twitter and tell the fans what is actually up. He was so good at it in the beginning of his new position but I haven't seen anything as of late on "having the back" of his players.

Elway tell us what is up! I am OK with Orton starting the season. I am OK with Tebow sitting for another year. I am OK with Quinn being the back up QB. What I am NOT OK with is all the BS that the sports media spews and the organization doesn't say anything to "comfort" their loyal fans.

Dammit Elway get on the stick!



*sorry...had to get that off my chest*

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 07:16 PM
I think its good that Elway is simply following the Thumper rule.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 07:27 PM
I agree with a lot of that but I thought this thread was going to be about the constant drama with this team. If it's not McDaniels, it's this. Who has been there for both regimes? Ellis...Xanders maybe?

Dirk
08-23-2011, 07:34 PM
I think its good that Elway is simply following the Thumper rule.


Maybe...but I don't think so. There is more to it than just not saying anything. I guess it's a chess game and I should just suck it up. :lol:

Dirk
08-23-2011, 07:35 PM
I agree with a lot of that but I thought this thread was going to be about the constant drama with this team. If it's not McDaniels, it's this. Who has been there for both regimes? Ellis...Xanders maybe?

:lol:

Yeah I can see why you thought that.

Actually I like X-man. Ellis on the otherhand I believe needs to go.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 07:43 PM
:lol:

Yeah I can see why you thought that.

Actually I like X-man. Ellis on the otherhand I believe needs to go.

The reason I think it might be Xanders and not Ellis is because Ellis is more focused on money from his vantage point (Im not talking about salary). Tebow sells a lot of merchandise. Orton couldnt sell a toothpick at a BBQ eating contest.

I agree that Ellis is the biggest snake on the team. I think Ellis was responsible for smearing people publicly in the past. Specifically, Im thinking of Brandon Marshall's court case. As a general observation, I agree with you. But here, it seems that it could be more likely that it's Xanders...even if you like him.

Id really like to believe it's not Elway.

I guess the other possibility is that it could be a player. Brandon Lloyd seems to have a big mouth.

Dirk
08-23-2011, 07:51 PM
The reason I think it might be Xanders and not Ellis is because Ellis is more focused on money from his vantage point (Im not talking about salary). Tebow sells a lot of merchandise. Orton couldnt sell a toothpick at a BBQ eating contest.

I agree that Ellis is the biggest snake on the team. I think Ellis was responsible for smearing people publicly in the past. Specifically, Im thinking of Brandon Marshall's court case. As a general observation, I agree with you. But here, it seems that it could be more likely that it's Xanders...even if you like him.

Id really like to believe it's not Elway.

I guess the other possibility is that it could be a player. Brandon Lloyd seems to have a big mouth.

The reason I say Ellis is, Who runs the team? Who is President? It ultimately falls in his lap. Period. Bowlen owns the team, but he hires a president so he doesn't have to "run" the team. The buck stops at Ellis. (yes you could say Bowlen, but he hired someone so he doesn't have to deal with it)

TX_Broncos Fan
08-23-2011, 09:43 PM
As some of you know, I am an Orton supporter. I think Orton is a very good QB but doesn't have the "it" factor. I think Tebow is a very raw QB but HAS the "it" factor.

But what grates me is how the sports media HATES on Tebow only because they don't want to be wrong.

Well said. I think most realize the "it" thing, and Tebow definitely has "IT". The last time I checked, this is a team sport and I drool at the thought of having Tebow in the position of leader of the team that believes in him.

And I certainly don't blame Fox. The head coach's job depends on winning and I get why Orton should start. If the front office would have traded Orton; Fine. If they feel like Orton is the man for the future; Fine, give him an extension. But it doesn't help with team unity to vacillate. Just think how much better Orton could be if he felt like someone believed in him.

But what is also amazing is how gracious, motivating, inspiring, etc., Tebow is even with the media telling everyone who will listen how he'll never play because of his style of play and inaccurate arm. Of course, when it works out. Hoge and everyone else can suck it.

BroncoStud
08-23-2011, 10:22 PM
It's been a tough 3 years to be a Broncos fan... We got spoiled under Shanahan, we had consistency and success and it got taken from us by Bowlen and McDaniels.

I guess I kind of lost my faith in this organization when Cutler was traded. It's been very hard for me to be optimistic since then. I am cautiously optimistic that Elway will turn it around but I would have loved to see Xanders gone, he is just an extension of McDaniels to me.

Everyone knows how sick I am of Orton as well. I feel bad for Tebow, all he did was get drafted, that's it. He really hasn't been given a chance to succeed or fail yet, but the media is pouring on him like he has failed. He was never supposed to be developed by now, especially with a lockout and no reps last season.

It's been the perfect strom of suckage for us fans. I don't think it's so much that so many of the fans have wanted to see Tebow play, I think it has more to do with so many of the fans wanting a reason to have hope and faith in this organization again. I really think Bowlen and McDaniels killed the trust and faith of the fans to a degree and so many of us just want a reason to have that back. It's hard for me to turn the page and have that faith when I see Orton taking snaps in Denver again.

PAINTERDAVE
08-23-2011, 10:57 PM
The media is a whore.

Soon enough they will find someone else to f@&k.

__________________________________________________ _____

"Are you READY for some Football? A Monday Night party?"

Can hardly wait to hear Hank Jr. sing that song for real.

I am excited about the season. Bring it.

chazoe60
08-23-2011, 11:14 PM
It's been a tough 3 years to be a Broncos fan... We got spoiled under Shanahan, we had consistency and success and it got taken from us by Bowlen and McDaniels.

I guess I kind of lost my faith in this organization when Cutler was traded. It's been very hard for me to be optimistic since then. I am cautiously optimistic that Elway will turn it around but I would have loved to see Xanders gone, he is just an extension of McDaniels to me.

Everyone knows how sick I am of Orton as well. I feel bad for Tebow, all he did was get drafted, that's it. He really hasn't been given a chance to succeed or fail yet, but the media is pouring on him like he has failed. He was never supposed to be developed by now, especially with a lockout and no reps last season.

It's been the perfect strom of suckage for us fans. I don't think it's so much that so many of the fans have wanted to see Tebow play, I think it has more to do with so many of the fans wanting a reason to have hope and faith in this organization again. I really think Bowlen and McDaniels killed the trust and faith of the fans to a degree and so many of us just want a reason to have that back. It's hard for me to turn the page and have that faith when I see Orton taking snaps in Denver again.

Sadly, I depressingly agree with every last word of this post.

girler
08-23-2011, 11:18 PM
I think its good that Elway is simply following the Thumper rule.

Thump your foot when you sense danger?

PAINTERDAVE
08-24-2011, 12:20 AM
Sadly, I depressingly agree with every last word of this post.

Amen.

bcbronc
08-24-2011, 02:50 AM
It's been a tough 3 years to be a Broncos fan... We got spoiled under Shanahan, we had consistency and success and it got taken from us by Bowlen and McDaniels.

I'm sorry but consistent 8-8 and almost making the playoffs isn't "spoiled" nor "success". I love Shanny but the guy needed to stop band-aiding together .500 seasons.


I guess I kind of lost my faith in this organization when Cutler was traded. It's been very hard for me to be optimistic since then. I am cautiously optimistic that Elway will turn it around but I would have loved to see Xanders gone, he is just an extension of McDaniels to me.

Cutler sucks,Stud. Hope that revelation helps you feel better. :beer:


Everyone knows how sick I am of Orton as well. I feel bad for Tebow, all he did was get drafted, that's it. He really hasn't been given a chance to succeed or fail yet, but the media is pouring on him like he has failed. He was never supposed to be developed by now, especially with a lockout and no reps last season.

maybe Tebow wasn't supposed to be developed by this point, but he was supposed to be improved. No one can honestly say Tebow has improved so far as a pro, and that's a concern.


It's been the perfect strom of suckage for us fans. I don't think it's so much that so many of the fans have wanted to see Tebow play, I think it has more to do with so many of the fans wanting a reason to have hope and faith in this organization again. I really think Bowlen and McDaniels killed the trust and faith of the fans to a degree and so many of us just want a reason to have that back. It's hard for me to turn the page and have that faith when I see Orton taking snaps in Denver again.

This makes no sense. Orton is still just a stop gap, unless his play proves otherwise. And if his play proves otherwise, who cares what his name is?

in the meantime, we've got a good coach that can create a cohesive locker room, a young OL that could gel into a great OL, young TEs with upside, young WRs with upside, young safeties with upside, and what looks to be a dominant pass rush. We're not a Super Bowl contender...yet...but there's lots to be excited about even if you hate Orton.

Get over it. He's one player of 53. We face the freakin Raiders on Monday Night in Orange to open the season in a couple of weeks. It's the time of year where hope flows eternal...even if you can't get up for Orton, get up for the defense or the OL or the running game...or just because it's the Broncos and the season's about to start.

Orton may or may not show improvement this season, but there's little doubt in my mind that the players surrounding Orton--on both sides of the ball--are definitely improved. And that's something to get ******* excited about.

BroncoJoe
08-24-2011, 09:24 AM
Eh, it's just the age we live in. Immediate information, access to dozens of opinions, instant updates on meaningless information.

All this same shit probably happened 30 years ago, it just wasn't easily accessible.

Dzone
08-24-2011, 09:30 AM
"Tebow is the most compelling story in the NFL"~Gary Miller on 102.3 this morning...Its true. Tebow popped up as the first story on yahooo news this morning...Tebowmania is absolutely nuts

Northman
08-24-2011, 09:31 AM
It's been a tough 3 years to be a Broncos fan... We got spoiled under Shanahan, we had consistency and success and it got taken from us by Bowlen and McDaniels.

I guess I kind of lost my faith in this organization when Cutler was traded. It's been very hard for me to be optimistic since then. I am cautiously optimistic that Elway will turn it around but I would have loved to see Xanders gone, he is just an extension of McDaniels to me.

Everyone knows how sick I am of Orton as well. I feel bad for Tebow, all he did was get drafted, that's it. He really hasn't been given a chance to succeed or fail yet, but the media is pouring on him like he has failed. He was never supposed to be developed by now, especially with a lockout and no reps last season.

It's been the perfect strom of suckage for us fans. I don't think it's so much that so many of the fans have wanted to see Tebow play, I think it has more to do with so many of the fans wanting a reason to have hope and faith in this organization again. I really think Bowlen and McDaniels killed the trust and faith of the fans to a degree and so many of us just want a reason to have that back. It's hard for me to turn the page and have that faith when I see Orton taking snaps in Denver again.


Great post and totally on the money for how i feel.

Dzone
08-24-2011, 09:47 AM
We cant assume anything anymore. We assumed Tebow would be the starter by now. People assume that Orton is going to suck. Assume we are going to lose this year...asume assume and assume
Even people who get paid big $$ to try to predict what is going to happen in the NFL are no better at predicting than a chimpanze.

Northman
08-24-2011, 09:49 AM
I'm sorry but consistent 8-8 and almost making the playoffs isn't "spoiled" nor "success". I love Shanny but the guy needed to stop band-aiding together .500 seasons.

True, Shanahan's tenure ran its course and down the line he struggled a lot with getting a real DC and improving where it needed improving. But, in his career at Denver he only had 3 .500 seasons and 2 losing seasons. That leaves 9 winning seasons with 2 Championships. That to me is success and to say otherwise is just plain moronic. I mean, we could of had the record of the Raiders and Detroit lions is that makes you feel better. I mean, lets keep some perspective here at least.


Cutler sucks,Stud. Hope that revelation helps you feel better. :beer:

Certainly your opinion, but not widely shared.


maybe Tebow wasn't supposed to be developed by this point, but he was supposed to be improved. No one can honestly say Tebow has improved so far as a pro, and that's a concern.

Maybe not improved, but not regressed either. Fact is, we havent seen him play but 3 games. Preseason and practice mean squat to me and history has proven it means squat when it matters most.


This makes no sense. Orton is still just a stop gap, unless his play proves otherwise. And if his play proves otherwise, who cares what his name is?

I do. Wasting time with a QB who cannot make plays when it matters most cost the team games. Im tired of watching a QB who cant get it done when it matters. If the team believes they can win this year than its playoffs or bust.


in the meantime, we've got a good coach

So wait? Shanahan wasnt a success but a guy who had only 3 winning seasons in nine years is a good coach? Really? :lol:

While i do have more faith in Fox i just find your stance a bit hypocritical.


that can create a cohesive locker room, a young OL that could gel into a great OL, young TEs with upside, young WRs with upside, young safeties with upside, and what looks to be a dominant pass rush.

All we have here is potential. Nothing in stone. Until they prove it, its just hypotheticals on your part. We've heard this song and dance for quite a while now.


Get over it.

Its a message board, he can explain his view if he likes. How bout you get over it?


We face the freakin Raiders on Monday Night in Orange

Indeed. The same team that waxed our asses 59-14. Yes!


to open the season in a couple of weeks. It's the time of year where hope flows eternal...even if you can't get up for Orton, get up for the defense or the OL or the running game...or just because it's the Broncos and the season's about to start.

Hope starts by proving it on the field. Talk is cheap.


Orton may or may not show improvement this season, but there's little doubt in my mind that the players surrounding Orton--on both sides of the ball--are definitely improved. And that's something to get ******* excited about.

Again, hypotheticals.

But i agree, im excited for football in general but i definitely know how Stud is feeling and until this franchise can prove my doubts wrong i will feel the same way. I dont get excited over fairy tales and talk. SHOW ME and make me a believer.

Ravage!!!
08-24-2011, 09:52 AM
Thump your foot when you sense danger?

:lol: Yeah... that one too!

Northman
08-24-2011, 09:52 AM
We cant assume anything anymore. We assumed Tebow would be the starter by now. People assume that Orton is going to suck. Assume we are going to lose this year...asume assume and assume
Even people who get paid big $$ to try to predict what is going to happen in the NFL are no better at predicting than a chimpanze.

Exactly. Its all about proving it.

Ravage!!!
08-24-2011, 09:59 AM
I'm sorry but consistent 8-8 and almost making the playoffs isn't "spoiled" nor "success". I love Shanny but the guy needed to stop band-aiding together .500 seasons.
What? :confused: He had 5 seasons that were 8-8 or worse in 14 years. One being his very FIRST season, and 2 were the last two seasons he was here. Meaning he had 2 in the remaining 11 seasons. He had 7 10+ win seasons, and 4 of those were post Elway.

The record he posted here, was better than any... ANY... coach or franchise in NFL history after losing a HoF QB. I suppose you can try to ask a coach to do better than ANYONE ever has, but then, he already did.

bcbronc
08-24-2011, 03:11 PM
True, Shanahan's tenure ran its course and down the line he struggled a lot with getting a real DC and improving where it needed improving. But, in his career at Denver he only had 3 .500 seasons and 2 losing seasons. That leaves 9 winning seasons with 2 Championships. That to me is success and to say otherwise is just plain moronic. I mean, we could of had the record of the Raiders and Detroit lions is that makes you feel better. I mean, lets keep some perspective here at least.

you want perspective, yet you're living in the last millennium. Shanny was great, but since the Super Bowls we've had one playoff win. Yeah, Shanny had ton of success here...but the well had dried up. 8-8 for life, I know.




Certainly your opinion, but not widely shared. but becoming more and more the standard.




Maybe not improved, but not regressed either. Fact is, we havent seen him play but 3 games. Preseason and practice mean squat to me and history has proven it means squat when it matters most. lol, when you're brought in as a project, "not regressing" isn't good enough. It's good that you think practice and preseason means squat, but 90% of the league earns there roster spot in...wait for it...practice and preseason.




I do. Wasting time with a QB who cannot make plays when it matters most cost the team games. Im tired of watching a QB who cant get it done when it matters. If the team believes they can win this year than its playoffs or bust. Playoffs or bust? Over the last, say, five years we've been embarrassingly bad on defense and gone through how many consecutive years with a new DC? First year of a new regime...but yeah playoffs or bust cuz Tebow would have got us there.

Again, what was that you said about perspective? Might want to try some on.




So wait? Shanahan wasnt a success but a guy who had only 3 winning seasons in nine years is a good coach? Really? :lol:Lol, obviously Shannahan was a success. Don't be daft. But the final years of his tenure were about as successful as McDaniels...no playoffs. The success had worn off and all that was left was mediocracy.
But sure, Fox sucks. Happy now?


While i do have more faith in Fox i just find your stance a bit hypocritical. Wait, now you have faith in Fox, despite only three winning seasons in nine years? Despite you inferring Fox isn't a good coach? Sheesh, hypocrit much?




All we have here is potential. Nothing in stone. Until they prove it, its just hypotheticals on your part. We've heard this song and dance for quite a while now. right, just like all your doom and gloom is just hypotheticals. I hear it ever year, "Team X is the sux" and lo and behold, they win a division and make the playoffs.

Must suck to be a fan so full of despair two weeks before the season starts. But I guess when you think the current coach isn't any good and your stuck in the mud pining for the "success" of 8-8 and almost making the playoffs on the back of the strongest throwing INT machine in the league, I guess I would be glum too. Glad I'm me though! :elefant:




Its a message board, he can explain his view if he likes. How bout you get over it? hypocrite


Indeed. The same team that waxed our asses 59-14. Yes!
Stop living in the past dude, times are a changin'.



Hope starts by proving it on the field. Talk is cheap. wait, you've got all this hope for Tebow, despite him not showing it on the field. Talk is what again? Oh yeah, hypocritical.




Again, hypotheticals. haha, you funny. There's nothing but hypotheticals at this time of year...whether your talking Tebow or Orton, or any other player on any other team. Thus, Fantasy Football is a multi-million dollar industry.


But i agree, im excited for football in general but i definitely know how Stud is feeling and until this franchise can prove my doubts wrong i will feel the same way. I dont get excited over fairy tales and talk. SHOW ME and make me a believer.and yet you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how Tebow should be seeing the field. So do you get excited over fairy tales and talk, or don't you? Cuz that's all Tebow is at this point, TinkerBelle and good times. Don't be afraid to try and have a consistent position instead of flip-flopping based on the number on the jersey.

:coffee:

Northman
08-24-2011, 03:21 PM
you want perspective, yet you're living in the last millennium. Shanny was great, but since the Super Bowls we've had one playoff win. Yeah, Shanny had ton of success here...but the well had dried up. 8-8 for life, I know.

Not living in the past, just not trying to degrade it or write a different history of it.


lol, when you're brought in as a project, "not regressing" isn't good enough. It's good that you think practice and preseason means squat, but 90% of the league earns there roster spot in...wait for it...practice and preseason.

Yes, because this offseason is like all the others. :rolleyes:


Playoffs or bust? Over the last, say, five years we've been embarrassingly bad on defense and gone through how many consecutive years with a new DC? First year of a new regime...but yeah playoffs or bust cuz Tebow would have got us there.

Dont be daft chappy (your favorite word). I never said we would make the playoffs with Tebow.


Lol, obviously Shannahan was a success. Don't be daft. But the final years of his tenure were about as successful as McDaniels...no playoffs. The success had worn off and all that was left was mediocracy.
But sure, Fox sucks. Happy now?

Talk about flip flopping. I thought you said Fox was a good coach? :lol:


Wait, now you have faith in Fox, despite only three winning seasons in nine years? Despite you inferring Fox isn't a good coach? Sheesh, hypocrit much?

Faith as in compared to your boy McD? You betcha. :coffee:


right, just like all your doom and gloom is just hypotheticals. I hear it ever year, "Team X is the sux" and lo and behold, they win a division and make the playoffs.

This is so incorrect i dont even know where to begin. You sure like making up shit. :lol:


Must suck to be a fan so full of despair two weeks before the season starts. But I guess when you think the current coach isn't any good and your stuck in the mud pining for the "success" of 8-8 and almost making the playoffs on the back of the strongest throwing INT machine in the league, I guess I would be glum too. Glad I'm me though! :elefant:

Ahhh, yes. When one cant argue the points in hand lets just insult the poster! Way to man up champ!


Stop living in the past dude, times are a changin'.

Yea, i heard that the last two years. Without the past we cant understand the future. ;)


wait, you've got all this hope for Tebow, despite him not showing it on the field. Talk is what again? Oh yeah, hypocritical.

Compared to almost all the QB's ive stacked him up against he has shown it on the field. As for hope for him, sure, i would love to have another FQB after McDoobie sent our last one away.


haha, you funny. There's nothing but hypotheticals at this time of year...whether your talking Tebow or Orton, or any other player on any other team. Thus, Fantasy Football is a multi-million dollar industry.

Yet, you are sitting here trying to tell someone else its a fact. Funny stuff mate.


and yet you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how Tebow should be seeing the field. So do you get excited over fairy tales and talk, or don't you? Cuz that's all Tebow is at this point, TinkerBelle and good times. Don't be afraid to try and have a consistent position instead of flip-flopping based on the number on the jersey.


Ive been totally consistent, your just not paying attention. :coffee:

BigDaddyBronco
08-24-2011, 03:25 PM
It's been a tough 3 years to be a Broncos fan... We got spoiled under Shanahan, we had consistency and success and it got taken from us by Bowlen and McDaniels.

I guess I kind of lost my faith in this organization when Cutler was traded. It's been very hard for me to be optimistic since then. I am cautiously optimistic that Elway will turn it around but I would have loved to see Xanders gone, he is just an extension of McDaniels to me.

Everyone knows how sick I am of Orton as well. I feel bad for Tebow, all he did was get drafted, that's it. He really hasn't been given a chance to succeed or fail yet, but the media is pouring on him like he has failed. He was never supposed to be developed by now, especially with a lockout and no reps last season.

It's been the perfect strom of suckage for us fans. I don't think it's so much that so many of the fans have wanted to see Tebow play, I think it has more to do with so many of the fans wanting a reason to have hope and faith in this organization again. I really think Bowlen and McDaniels killed the trust and faith of the fans to a degree and so many of us just want a reason to have that back. It's hard for me to turn the page and have that faith when I see Orton taking snaps in Denver again.
Shit, I lost faith after Shanny roiled out defensive coordinator after defensive coordinator and still failed miserably. After going to the AFC Championship and watching the defense (and Jake Plummer) crap on the field against the Steelers he drafts Cutler instead of defense. What we had with Plummer would have worked and he blew up the team by undermining his QB by drafting Cutler. The Broncos haven't been a good team since.

Northman
08-24-2011, 03:49 PM
Shit, I lost faith after Shanny roiled out defensive coordinator after defensive coordinator and still failed miserably. After going to the AFC Championship and watching the defense (and Jake Plummer) crap on the field against the Steelers he drafts Cutler instead of defense. What we had with Plummer would have worked and he blew up the team by undermining his QB by drafting Cutler. The Broncos haven't been a good team since.


I was fine with the Cutler pick but i would of been fine with Ngata as well. But it was obvious Plummer wasnt getting it done on his end and Shanny decided to replace him. Maybe it was Plummer's lack of work ethic that made him go that direction. We may never know. But after 07' i thought we would get better and although i was confident in 08' down the stretch was the writing on the wall. I thought he would get at the very least one more year but Bowlen cut the ripcord which i understood. Its just too bad that the last two years were wasted on yet another failed BB disciple instead of getting someone with either more experience or defensive minded like Morris or Spags. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 and lets hope Fox can right the ship.

Tned
08-24-2011, 04:25 PM
you want perspective, yet you're living in the last millennium. Shanny was great, but since the Super Bowls we've had one playoff win. Yeah, Shanny had ton of success here...but the well had dried up. 8-8 for life, I know.


I know the "we only had one playoff win" statement has become a mantra of sorts to prove how bad the post SB years were, but I think it's a bit of a simplistic view.

First, in '03 and '04 we had the misfortune of catching the nearly unbeatable colts in the first round, which was also probably the number one worst matchup for the Broncos. In '05, we went to the AFCCG and ran into a stout Pitt team that outplayed the Broncos on both sides of the ball.

What we are going through now is what virtually every other team goes through in their cyclical down periods, especially following SB wins. Denver's down period was to have one losing season, and four playoff appearances, but only one win in the seven years following the SB.

Maybe it would have been better to have a horrid couple seasons in the early '00s, like the team has gone through the last couple years, and 'maybe' it would have come out stronger. Hindsight and all. However, fans should appreciate the fact that the Broncos managed to go over two decades without a rebuilding period and with only something like three losing seasons.

bcbronc
08-24-2011, 04:28 PM
Not living in the past, just not trying to degrade it or write a different history of it.



Yes, because this offseason is like all the others. :rolleyes:



Dont be daft chappy (your favorite word). I never said we would make the playoffs with Tebow.



Talk about flip flopping. I thought you said Fox was a good coach? :lol:



Faith as in compared to your boy McD? You betcha. :coffee:



This is so incorrect i dont even know where to begin. You sure like making up shit. :lol:



Ahhh, yes. When one cant argue the points in hand lets just insult the poster! Way to man up champ!



Yea, i heard that the last two years. Without the past we cant understand the future. ;)



Compared to almost all the QB's ive stacked him up against he has shown it on the field. As for hope for him, sure, i would love to have another FQB after McDoobie sent our last one away.



Yet, you are sitting here trying to tell someone else its a fact. Funny stuff mate.
L


Ive been totally consistent, your just not paying attention. :coffee:

Shit, that's a lot of tyoing to say sweet jack all. You go on with your bad-ass emo self.

Agent of Orange
08-24-2011, 04:33 PM
you want perspective, yet you're living in the last millennium. Shanny was great, but since the Super Bowls we've had one playoff win. Yeah, Shanny had ton of success here...but the well had dried up. 8-8 for life, I know.



but becoming more and more the standard.



lol, when you're brought in as a project, "not regressing" isn't good enough. It's good that you think practice and preseason means squat, but 90% of the league earns there roster spot in...wait for it...practice and preseason.



Playoffs or bust? Over the last, say, five years we've been embarrassingly bad on defense and gone through how many consecutive years with a new DC? First year of a new regime...but yeah playoffs or bust cuz Tebow would have got us there.

Again, what was that you said about perspective? Might want to try some on.



Lol, obviously Shannahan was a success. Don't be daft. But the final years of his tenure were about as successful as McDaniels...no playoffs. The success had worn off and all that was left was mediocracy.
But sure, Fox sucks. Happy now?

Wait, now you have faith in Fox, despite only three winning seasons in nine years? Despite you inferring Fox isn't a good coach? Sheesh, hypocrit much?



right, just like all your doom and gloom is just hypotheticals. I hear it ever year, "Team X is the sux" and lo and behold, they win a division and make the playoffs.

Must suck to be a fan so full of despair two weeks before the season starts. But I guess when you think the current coach isn't any good and your stuck in the mud pining for the "success" of 8-8 and almost making the playoffs on the back of the strongest throwing INT machine in the league, I guess I would be glum too. Glad I'm me though! :elefant:



hypocrite

Stop living in the past dude, times are a changin'.


wait, you've got all this hope for Tebow, despite him not showing it on the field. Talk is what again? Oh yeah, hypocritical.



haha, you funny. There's nothing but hypotheticals at this time of year...whether your talking Tebow or Orton, or any other player on any other team. Thus, Fantasy Football is a multi-million dollar industry.

and yet you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how Tebow should be seeing the field. So do you get excited over fairy tales and talk, or don't you? Cuz that's all Tebow is at this point, TinkerBelle and good times. Don't be afraid to try and have a consistent position instead of flip-flopping based on the number on the jersey.

:coffee:


It must suck being wrong so much.

Northman
08-24-2011, 04:52 PM
Shit, that's a lot of tyoing to say sweet jack all. You go on with your bad-ass emo self.

Yea, go back and bang your daddy some more. :beer:

turftoad
08-24-2011, 06:34 PM
I know the "we only had one playoff win" statement has become a mantra of sorts to prove how bad the post SB years were, but I think it's a bit of a simplistic view.

First, in '03 and '04 we had the misfortune of catching the nearly unbeatable colts in the first round, which was also probably the number one worst matchup for the Broncos. In '05, we went to the AFCCG and ran into a stout Pitt team that outplayed the Broncos on both sides of the ball.

What we are going through now is what virtually every other team goes through in their cyclical down periods, especially following SB wins. Denver's down period was to have one losing season, and four playoff appearances, but only one win in the seven years following the SB.

Maybe it would have been better to have a horrid couple seasons in the early '00s, like the team has gone through the last couple years, and 'maybe' it would have come out stronger. Hindsight and all. However, fans should appreciate the fact that the Broncos managed to go over two decades without a rebuilding period and with only something like three losing seasons.

Exactly. Also, we at least knew we had a shot at the division pretty much every year before the season started.

NightTerror218
08-24-2011, 06:39 PM
too much drama bring on the cheerleaders

MOtorboat
08-24-2011, 07:03 PM
Exactly. Also, we at least knew we had a shot at the division pretty much every year before the season started.

Why don't they have a chance this year? Pretty sure every one is 0-0.

Tned
08-24-2011, 07:06 PM
Why don't they have a chance this year? Pretty sure every one is 0-0.

So how many wins are you predicting?

MOtorboat
08-24-2011, 07:10 PM
So how many wins are you predicting?

Yes, this is somewhat of a cop out...

I have not seriously looked at it yet, but in a league where teams bounce up and down, and I know the Broncos haven't, but others have, I don't see why the Broncos couldn't compete for the division title.

Northman
08-24-2011, 07:14 PM
Yes, this is somewhat of a cop out...

I have not seriously looked at it yet, but in a league where teams bounce up and down, and I know the Broncos haven't, but others have, I don't see why the Broncos couldn't compete for the division title.

I think it has more to do with what i eluded too in another thread. When it comes to this team we've kind of heard this song and dance that we will be better both by the HC's and by the players themselves. So far they havent lived up to the billing so until they actually prove they can compete for the division its a little difficult to just throw blind faith at it. When you look at teams rosters or what they did the year before you can sometimes get a feeling of what some of the improvements they can make. Denver is at that crossroads right now so it can go either way. Hopefully, it will be for the better and they can compete but im not holding my breath. Too many changes and the same starting QB who cant make plays when it matters keeps me doubting.

Tned
08-24-2011, 07:17 PM
Yes, this is somewhat of a cop out...

I have not seriously looked at it yet, but in a league where teams bounce up and down, and I know the Broncos haven't, but others have, I don't see why the Broncos couldn't compete for the division title.

Yep, a cop out after the 0-0 comment. ;)

MOtorboat
08-24-2011, 07:20 PM
I think it has more to do with what i eluded too in another thread. When it comes to this team we've kind of heard this song and dance that we will be better both by the HC's and by the players themselves. So far they havent lived up to the billing so until they actually prove they can compete for the division its a little difficult to just throw blind faith at it. When you look at teams rosters or what they did the year before you can sometimes get a feeling of what some of the improvements they can make. Denver is at that crossroads right now so it can go either way. Hopefully, it will be for the better and they can compete but im not holding my breath. Too many changes and the same starting QB who cant make plays when it matters keeps me doubting.

It's not just blind faith.

There are four elite positions on the field. Denver has three of them filled with elite players, and yes, I do mean that.

Dumervil, Clady and Bailey are elite talents at top positions, Quarterback is the fourth position. Orton is not elite, but he is capable.

Without going into too much detail, that's why I believe Denver could turn it around quicker than some other teams could.

Slick
08-24-2011, 07:28 PM
Yes, this is somewhat of a cop out...

I have not seriously looked at it yet, but in a league where teams bounce up and down, and I know the Broncos haven't, but others have, I don't see why the Broncos couldn't compete for the division title.

Hell yes!

I'm on board. Party at motorboats.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Agent of Orange
08-24-2011, 07:29 PM
It's not just blind faith.

There are four elite positions on the field. Denver has three of them filled with elite players, and yes, I do mean that.

Dumervil, Clady and Bailey are elite talents at top positions, Quarterback is the fourth position. Orton is not elite, but he is capable.

Without going into too much detail, that's why I believe Denver could turn it around quicker than some other teams could.

I agree with this. But more imporatnt than the LT per se is the overall offensive line. If Denver can run the ball well this year and also rush the passer, things can change this year. You're actually overvaluing corner. It's more about the pass rush. Having one should allow the DBs to make plays.

Tned
08-24-2011, 07:31 PM
It's not just blind faith.

There are four elite positions on the field. Denver has three of them filled with elite players, and yes, I do mean that.

Dumervil, Clady and Bailey are elite talents at top positions, Quarterback is the fourth position. Orton is not elite, but he is capable.

Without going into too much detail, that's why I believe Denver could turn it around quicker than some other teams could.

Ok, I'm off my tablet, so I can return to maximum verbosity mode.

I actually agree and think the turn around could be much quicker than many think. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that we have the third hardest schedule (on paper, based on last year), I would be very bullish on our playoff chances.

In addition to what you mentioned, I think the front seven will be greatly helped by Miller, and with DJ moving back to the weak side. Franklin looks like he will help the run game, as should a healthy McGahee. None of this even touches on Fox's influence on the defense, schemes, etc.

That said, my comment and question was simply trying to point out that while it's true that "in theory" every team can compete for the division, every year, because they all start off 0-0, the reality is that we know that it isn't that simple.

While Shanahan and company deserve plenty of criticism for the defense and other things, you cannot argue with the fact that during his reign, and looking the full length of Bowlen's ownership sans the McDaniels era, there were few, if any, clubs that made as many playoff appearances and had as few losing seasons -- we won't even talk about the Super Bowl appearances and SB wins when doing that comparison.

Nomad
08-24-2011, 07:34 PM
So how many wins are you predicting?

I'm still unsure about wins but I predict BRONCOS will be drafting around 6 or 7th.

Canmore
08-24-2011, 07:36 PM
I'm still unsure about wins but I predict BRONCOS will be drafting around 6 or 7th.

Agreed. We are not bottom of the barrel bad, just bad. :defense:

Tned
08-24-2011, 07:44 PM
I'm still unsure about wins but I predict BRONCOS will be drafting around 6 or 7th.


Agreed. We are not bottom of the barrel bad, just bad. :defense:

There are too many unknowns for me to make a real prediction, but even with the brutal schedule, I expect us to draft outside the top 10, and most likely have something in the 6-9 win range.

Northman
08-24-2011, 07:51 PM
It's not just blind faith.

There are four elite positions on the field. Denver has three of them filled with elite players, and yes, I do mean that.

Dumervil, Clady and Bailey are elite talents at top positions, Quarterback is the fourth position. Orton is not elite, but he is capable.

Without going into too much detail, that's why I believe Denver could turn it around quicker than some other teams could.

While i agree that we do have the "elite" players you mentioned we had these guys in 09' as well. Yet, we saw how the story unfolded much like it had the previous years before that. Last year obviously it was much worse but just having those players on this team doesnt mean a whole lot unless they as a group can win.

Back when Shanahan traded for Bailey the idea was that getting an elite DB would fix our defensive woes. That wasnt the case and while Champ did a great job of showing what he was all about against the Pats in the playoff game it was the other areas that let us down. So while i do expect some improvments (health, McGahee, Miller, etc) i just dont see us competing for a division title just yet.

Anything can happen but until i actually see it happen i will still continue to question it. Its not Elway's or Fox's fault that i think like that but that is where the organization has put my mindset because ive heard the same line of thinking the past 6 years. Like some of the players did to Shanahan im beginning to tune out what they are trying to sell.

Canmore
08-24-2011, 07:53 PM
There are too many unknowns for me to make a real prediction, but even with the brutal schedule, I expect us to draft outside the top 10, and most likely have something in the 6-9 win range.

Until the Broncos, especially Kyle Orton show me that they can win close games, I'm predicting six wins. That would probably mean a draft position in the bottom ten. Sixth or seventh sounds just about right. If Kyle elevates his game and this team can support him, offensively in the run game and defensively in the run game maybe we are on to something.

Is nine wins out of the question? No. In a previous thread I outlined a scenario where Denver's win ceiling was ten games. Not far off of nine. Do I expect that? No, I'll stand by six wins until the Broncos show me something different. I think we are improved, just not enough.

bcbronc
08-24-2011, 09:20 PM
There are too many unknowns for me to make a real prediction, but even with the brutal schedule, I expect us to draft outside the top 10, and most likely have something in the 6-9 win range.

This is where I'm at too, 6-10 wins this season depending how the balls bounce.

If Doom can return to double-digit sacks, and Von is in the running for DROY we should be a tough team to pass against.

If the new offensive philosophy can create a solid running game, we should be improved on 3rd downs and red zone. And if Orton can carry over his strong pre-season play into the games that matter, even better.

imo last season we hit rock bottom and have started to bounce back up. Sometimes a house is so rotten you need to tear it down right to the foundation. This is all hypothetical and speculation, I know, but I'm feeling tentatively confident that the worst is behind us.

Go Broncs!

Npba900
08-24-2011, 09:47 PM
you want perspective, yet you're living in the last millennium. Shanny was great, but since the Super Bowls we've had one playoff win. Yeah, Shanny had ton of success here...but the well had dried up. 8-8 for life, I know.



but becoming more and more the standard.



lol, when you're brought in as a project, "not regressing" isn't good enough. It's good that you think practice and preseason means squat, but 90% of the league earns there roster spot in...wait for it...practice and preseason.



Playoffs or bust? Over the last, say, five years we've been embarrassingly bad on defense and gone through how many consecutive years with a new DC? First year of a new regime...but yeah playoffs or bust cuz Tebow would have got us there.

Again, what was that you said about perspective? Might want to try some on.



Lol, obviously Shannahan was a success. Don't be daft. But the final years of his tenure were about as successful as McDaniels...no playoffs. The success had worn off and all that was left was mediocracy.
But sure, Fox sucks. Happy now?

Wait, now you have faith in Fox, despite only three winning seasons in nine years? Despite you inferring Fox isn't a good coach? Sheesh, hypocrit much?



right, just like all your doom and gloom is just hypotheticals. I hear it ever year, "Team X is the sux" and lo and behold, they win a division and make the playoffs.

Must suck to be a fan so full of despair two weeks before the season starts. But I guess when you think the current coach isn't any good and your stuck in the mud pining for the "success" of 8-8 and almost making the playoffs on the back of the strongest throwing INT machine in the league, I guess I would be glum too. Glad I'm me though! :elefant:



hypocrite

Stop living in the past dude, times are a changin'.


wait, you've got all this hope for Tebow, despite him not showing it on the field. Talk is what again? Oh yeah, hypocritical.



haha, you funny. There's nothing but hypotheticals at this time of year...whether your talking Tebow or Orton, or any other player on any other team. Thus, Fantasy Football is a multi-million dollar industry.

and yet you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how Tebow should be seeing the field. So do you get excited over fairy tales and talk, or don't you? Cuz that's all Tebow is at this point, TinkerBelle and good times. Don't be afraid to try and have a consistent position instead of flip-flopping based on the number on the jersey.

:coffee:


Meh! Say what you will about Shanny's star burning out. But the fact remains that Shanny was only a HOF QB away from continuing to dominate the AFC west and returning to the SB. You know if the offensive Mastermind had a HOF QB to build upon, Shanny would have shown you more seasons as displayed with the 96, 97, 98 Broncos; as well as his productive years and SB victory with Steve Young and the 49ers.

Plummber and Greise were not good enough or HOF bound QB's and Cutler with Shanny could have been Shanny's 3rd HOF QB if not a consistently Pro Bowl QB in Shanny's offense. Cutler and Shanny just weren't given a chance to gel and show what they could do together.

Shanny had 3 more years left on his contract and consequently should have been allowed to coach Cutler and remain HC for those 3 years remaining on his contract. That would have given Cutler and Shanny 5 years consecutively to see if Shanny had his HOF QB and return the Broncos to winning consistently again.

Shanny ain't going nowhere with Beck and Grossman. Shanny knows he must find his Rothlesburger, Manning, or Brady in the 2012 draft in order to win again and return to 11 to 14 win seasons and returning the Super Bowl.

The amazing thing about Shanny was that he had the Broncos in contention for winning the AFC west every year while rebuilding and winning 8-9 games in the process.

BroncoStud
08-24-2011, 10:42 PM
Meh! Say what you will about Shanny's star burning out. But the fact remains that Shanny was only a HOF QB away from continuing to dominate the AFC west and returning to the SB. You know if the offensive Mastermind had a HOF QB to build upon, Shanny would have shown you more seasons as displayed with the 96, 97, 98 Broncos; as well as his productive years and SB victory with Steve Young and the 49ers.

Plummber and Greise were not good enough or HOF bound QB's and Cutler with Shanny could have been Shanny's 3rd HOF QB if not a consistently Pro Bowl QB in Shanny's offense. Cutler and Shanny just weren't given a chance to gel and show what they could do together.

Shanny had 3 more years left on his contract and consequently should have been allowed to coach Cutler and remain HC for those 3 years remaining on his contract. That would have given Cutler and Shanny 5 years consecutively to see if Shanny had his HOF QB and return the Broncos to winning consistently again.

Shanny ain't going nowhere with Beck and Grossman. Shanny knows he must find his Rothlesburger, Manning, or Brady in the 2012 draft in order to win again and return to 11 to 14 win seasons and returning the Super Bowl.

The amazing thing about Shanny was that he had the Broncos in contention for winning the AFC west every year while rebuilding and winning 8-9 games in the process.

Shanahan was the master of retooling. Hell, half the time our drafts were so bad we really didn't get any contribution from them, especially on defense. Mike could coach like crazy and brought in the right free agents to keep Denver competitive. If he had an inkling of how to draft on defense we might have won 10 or more year season.

bcbronc
08-24-2011, 11:04 PM
Meh! Say what you will about Shanny's star burning out. But the fact remains that Shanny was only a HOF QB away from continuing to dominate the AFC west and returning to the SB. You know if the offensive Mastermind had a HOF QB to build upon, Shanny would have shown you more seasons as displayed with the 96, 97, 98 Broncos; as well as his productive years and SB victory with Steve Young and the 49ers.

Plummber and Greise were not good enough or HOF bound QB's and Cutler with Shanny could have been Shanny's 3rd HOF QB if not a consistently Pro Bowl QB in Shanny's offense. Cutler and Shanny just weren't given a chance to gel and show what they could do together.

Shanny had 3 more years left on his contract and consequently should have been allowed to coach Cutler and remain HC for those 3 years remaining on his contract. That would have given Cutler and Shanny 5 years consecutively to see if Shanny had his HOF QB and return the Broncos to winning consistently again.

Shanny ain't going nowhere with Beck and Grossman. Shanny knows he must find his Rothlesburger, Manning, or Brady in the 2012 draft in order to win again and return to 11 to 14 win seasons and returning the Super Bowl.

The amazing thing about Shanny was that he had the Broncos in contention for winning the AFC west every year while rebuilding and winning 8-9 games in the process.

no, sorry, I have to disagree. And please don't take this as me hating on Shanny because that's not, not, NOT what I'm doing...every coach has a shelf life even the great ones.

But you must forget what the 2008 defense was like. As bad as last years was, 2008 was way worse, especially when you consider the defensive injuries we had last year (plus we were trying to play the 34 without a NT, which is like trying to play football without a foot).

Just to jog your memory:

Marlon McCree
Jack Williams
Marquel Manuel
Calvin Lowry

Sorry, I didn't want to have to go there, but it's important to remember just how bad Shanny got at accumulating defensive players. When your at one place for 14 years (or whatever it was) it just gets stale...same drive, same office, same coffee shop, same strip joints etc.

One playoff win in a decade isn't just missing a HOF QB away from the Super Bowl. None of this takes away from what Shannahan did during his time here, it just shows that the franchise needed a fresh face at the helm.

I do wish he ended up somewhere other than Washington though...I still root for Shanny but find it so hard to root for Dan Snyder and the Redskins.

Dzone
08-24-2011, 11:13 PM
Look at it this way: Typically at this time of year, the teams getting all the national publicity are the Jets, Cowboys, Patriots . Well, they have been bumped because NOW the national spotlight is on what is happening in Denver.
I dont think that is a bad thing at all.
Would not surprise anyone if Tebow pops up on the cover of SI this week.

Tned
08-25-2011, 08:27 AM
no, sorry, I have to disagree. And please don't take this as me hating on Shanny because that's not, not, NOT what I'm doing...every coach has a shelf life even the great ones.

But you must forget what the 2008 defense was like. As bad as last years was, 2008 was way worse, especially when you consider the defensive injuries we had last year (plus we were trying to play the 34 without a NT, which is like trying to play football without a foot).

Just to jog your memory:

Marlon McCree
Jack Williams
Marquel Manuel
Calvin Lowry

Sorry, I didn't want to have to go there, but it's important to remember just how bad Shanny got at accumulating defensive players. When your at one place for 14 years (or whatever it was) it just gets stale...same drive, same office, same coffee shop, same strip joints etc.

One playoff win in a decade isn't just missing a HOF QB away from the Super Bowl. None of this takes away from what Shannahan did during his time here, it just shows that the franchise needed a fresh face at the helm.

I do wish he ended up somewhere other than Washington though...I still root for Shanny but find it so hard to root for Dan Snyder and the Redskins.

You don't need to feel 'sorry' for going there, the bigger issue is the accuracy. There is no way to make a valid argument that the 2008 defense performed worse than the 2010 defense. From wins, to stats, the '08 defense was better than '10. Don't get me wrong, the '08 defense was bad, just quite a bit better than '10.

Agent of Orange
08-25-2011, 09:44 AM
You don't need to feel 'sorry' for going there, the bigger issue is the accuracy. There is no way to make a valid argument that the 2008 defense performed worse than the 2010 defense. From wins, to stats, the '08 defense was better than '10. Don't get me wrong, the '08 defense was bad, just quite a bit better than '10.

What's funny is that a lot of people thought it couldnt be that bad again in 2008. Maybe that's why he's saying this. He's holding on to the feeling he had in 2008 and it's not allowing him to see 2010 for what it is.