Adam Weber is better than Tim Tebow right now

[rationalfan]

Interesting read from Michael Silver:

As one highly knowledgeable member of the organization told me Monday, “If everything was totally equal, and this were a competition based only on performance at this camp, Tebow would probably be the fourth-string guy. Kyle [Orton] is far and away the best, and Tebow’s way behind [Brady] Quinn, too. And I’m telling you, Adam Weber is flat-out better right now.”

full article: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ArhOaKnMH9rm0N2_1o9U8z5DubYF?slug=ms-silver_denver_broncos_quarterbacks_082311

[camdisco24]

This is getting so stupid. Everyone is piling on with this Tebow stuff.

Orton is our guy. Tebow isn't starting for now. End of story.

[BORDERLINE]

You got to be F'n kidding me. That I do not not believe.

[slim]

It's total garbage.

The national media has no clue what is going on at Dove Valley. Never have, never will.

[BeefStew25]

I think they are just trying to get Adam Webers trade value up.

[nevcraw]

All I know is I saw what I saw last year -- it is inconcievable that he any worst than the guy who played those last 3 games. and that guy could win games and will players to be better.

and Fox's worried about Brady Quinns spirit??

it would be awesome to see Tebow get the time / reps / coaching / and tailored scheme to make him optimal and exploit his intangiables as a Bronco -- if they cannot do that -- get rid of him now so we can stop pretending it may one day happen.. Let this FO play with mediocrity until a blue chipper falls in their lap with a lucky pick..

[BORDERLINE]

We all saw those last three games and the 13 previous with Orton. That's why we yap what we yap

[LawDog]

It's total garbage.

The national media has no clue what is going on at Dove Valley. Never have, never will.

Actually Slim, you won't get a clearer picture of what is what in Dove Valley right now than this article by Michael Silver. He has a long history with the organization and excellent contacts, you'll just have to trust me on that one.

As for the national media in general, you're right.

[Dzone]

Well, its either true or it isnt.Thats probably why sportswriters write about Tebow. Tebow is what everyone wants to hear about. Its nuts.
If Tebow really is this bad, then thats sad. So many people want to believe in this story. Shoot, I do to. Its a great story. Its America to prove your doubters wrong. Its a bummer it hasnt happened , at least not yet.
In the meantime, its time to get behind Orton.

[compucomp]

Look what happens when a front office who did not draft the anchor baby franchise quarterback has to deal with the situation. The previously anointed one is now deep down on the depth chart.

This is McDaniels's Broncos legacy. Not only did he deplete the roster of talent, he has forced the subsequent front office to deal with this ridiculous controversy and distraction because he thought Tebow could actually play quarterback in the NFL. If it weren't for McDaniels Tebow would have been a 4th round pick or later and probably trying out for running back or tight end at this point.

[dogfish]

this is BS. . . if somebody at dove valley is actually feeding this garbage to the media, they deserve to lose their job over it IMO-- yes, regardless of who it is. . . completely unprofessional to do a hatchet job on one of our own players through the media-- particularly to a quality individual like tim. . .

if they're really THAT concerned about the stupid tebowner vocal minority, they need to grow up-- start worrying more about fielding a competitive football team, and less about ****ing public relations. . . your image sucks nads right now, and nothing's going to change that besides winning more games. . .

i think they're retarded if they can't find a use for tebow's red zone skills, athleticism and intangibles, but if you can't stand to have the kid on your roster at any cost, just be done with it and get rid of him already. . . do they really think the fans are going to thank them for dragging him through the mud first?


and if it's not coming from the organization, they need to put silver on blast-- because otherwise, it's assumed that the comments were made by someone in our FO. . .

[slim]

Actually Slim, you won't get a clearer picture of what is what in Dove Valley right now than this article by Michael Silver. He has a long history with the organization and excellent contacts, you'll just have to trust me on that one.

As for the national media in general, you're right.

I don't know. I have heard many people say (people that have watched all or nearly all of training camp) that Tebow is far ahead of Weber right now. In fact, the general sense is that Tebow is as far ahead of Weber as Orton is of Tebow.

Edit: the people I reference are not part of the organization, just observers.

[Mike]

I bet it'll be Tebow not returning phone calls next. :coffee:

[Dzone]

Hope Fans will not boo Orton. That does not give us the best chance at victory.
No individual personality is bigger than the team.
People should be damn glad that Orton gained 10 pounds and has improved his game a lot over last year. If he and Brandon Loyd continue to throw those perfect passes with the DBs back to the QB because they are so worried about Loyds perfect routes and wicked skills. That could be worth a couple touchdowns a game if the O line is as improved as they say. If Orton proves all his critics wrong, isnt that in some ways like what we wanted Tebow to do? So what if Orton isnt as likeable as Tebow? Big ******* deal!

I would hate to see Tebow have to tweet out to his fans to show some class and stop booing Orton every time he steps on the field.

[LawDog]

I don't know. I have heard many people say (people that have watched all or nearly all of training camp) that Tebow is far ahead of Weber right now. In fact, the general sense is that Tebow is as far ahead of Weber as Orton is of Tebow.

Edit: the people I reference are not part of the organization, just observers.

And it's the people inside the organization (read EFX) who's opinions and perceptions are the ones that matter. The stuff about Weber is to get people talking and to drive traffic for the website and sportswriter, but the balance about where Tebow is in his development is spot on. He needs to develop the under center skills if he is going to succeed and the lack of first team reps last year under McDaniels and the lockout this year have caused him considerable harm. Sure he worked on his own taking snaps under center and throwing from the 3-5 step drop but that is not the same as getting those reps with a coaching staff guiding him. He has a long way to go and while they are not giving up on him yet, they realize he is a project that will benefit from being a second-year rookie with some talent ahead of him to allow him the time to develop (or not).

In the meantime, as Dzone stated, it's time to get behind Orton because at this point he gives us the best chance to win.

[Watchthemiddle]

"from a reliable source inside the Broncos organization......__________-"

Anyone can write anything these days.

Didn't your mamma always tell you that you shouldn't believe everything you read?

I will believe it when I SEEE it...not read it...especially without the sources name.

This national MEDIA stuff outside of the Broncos organization needs to leave it alone

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Dmac, Stink and Alfred are discussing this right now on 104.3 the fan. They will continue after commercial. One interesting thing Stink said was that the ONLY time Silverman has been to Broncos practice was yesterday. I can NOT see anyone giving him inside scoop, etc.

[LawDog]

"from a reliable source inside the Broncos organization......__________-"

Anyone can write anything these days.

Didn't your mamma always tell you that you shouldn't believe everything you read?

I will believe it when I SEEE it...not read it...especially without the sources name.

This national MEDIA stuff outside of the Broncos organization needs to leave it alone

WTM, he wasn't quoting the janitorial staff or the lady serving mashed potatoes in the lunch line...

[Watchthemiddle]

Dmac, Stink and Alfred are discussing this right now on 104.3 the fan. They will continue after commercial. One interesting thing Stink said was that the ONLY time Silverman has been to Broncos practice was yesterday. I can NOT see anyone giving him inside scoop, etc.

I am listening to it also..

I thought it was interesting to learn about Michael Lombardi after his piece a week or so ago..

He is disgruntled (to say the least) towards the entire organization for being passed over and booted by them...so of course he is going to try and stir the pot also.

Shoot, at this point the same can be said about Hoge and all of the times Elway and Co. spanked him while he was with Pitt.

Does any of this have to do with Tebow, or is there also a bone to pick with the Broncos now that the GOAT is in charge of football operations??

Hmmm...something to think about

[slim]

Dmac, Stink and Alfred are discussing this right now on 104.3 the fan. They will continue after commercial. One interesting thing Stink said was that the ONLY time Silverman has been to Broncos practice was yesterday. I can NOT see anyone giving him inside scoop, etc.

This is the problem I have. National media types come to practice once and then pretend to know WTF is going on. It's just silly....use an unnamed source to pile on Tebow. All a ploy to drum up readers, IMO.

As Dmac just said, Weber only took a handful of snaps at the practice that Silver attended. :laugh:

[Watchthemiddle]

WTM, he wasn't quoting the janitorial staff or the lady serving mashed potatoes in the lunch line...

:laugh::laugh:...it couldn't of been the lunch lady...ladies love them some TT

[slim]

WTM, he wasn't quoting the janitorial staff or the lady serving mashed potatoes in the lunch line...

Well, you seem to know who his source is...and maybe you are right. But I think I will listen to the local media.

[LawDog]

Well, you seem to know who his source is...and maybe you are right. But I think I will listen to the local media.

As well you should, just don't completely discount what Silver wrote.

[dogfish]

"from a reliable source inside the Broncos organization......__________-"

Anyone can write anything these days.

Didn't your mamma always tell you that you shouldn't believe everything you read?

I will believe it when I SEEE it...not read it...especially without the sources name.

This national MEDIA stuff outside of the Broncos organization needs to leave it alone


This is the problem I have. National media types come to practice once and then pretend to know WTF is going on. It's just silly....use an unnamed source to pile on Tebow. All a ploy to drum up readers, IMO.

As Dmac just said, Weber only took a handful of snaps at the practice that Silver attended. :laugh:


if those quotes didn't come from someone inside the organization, then the FO needs to speak up-- otherwise, it will be assumed that the quotes are accurate. . . in fact, that's what i'll assume. . .

[Watchthemiddle]

WTM, he wasn't quoting the janitorial staff or the lady serving mashed potatoes in the lunch line...

How do you know that??? He was there for one day. John Clayton was here longer than that and made no mention of it.

At this point I will wait and watch all of the QB's on the field and make my own evaluation.

I would really love to see TT get the shot this week with the 2's against Seattle. We all know Orton is the starter and I am perfectly fine with that. I am also perfectly fine with open competition, but we have all seen what Quinn does in real life in real games (not preseason) and what Tebow does.

If it takes Tebow as many years for him to get "as good as Quinn" then there is a problem. Both Quiinn and Orton have been in the league long enough to see what they can do. It sounds like QUinn (5-6 years in the league) finally GOT it this off season to work on his problems. Give Tebow that much time and he will be a Pro-Bowler

[Watchthemiddle]

if those quotes didn't come from someone inside the organization, then the FO needs to speak up-- otherwise, it will be assumed that the quotes are accurate. . . in fact, that's what i'll assume. . .

This is exactly the problem....we read stuff and ASSUME it to be true.

Right now everyone is assuming evertything about the Tebow situation because no-one knows....because he hasn't been given the chance and everyone else wants to pile on.

If given a chance and he can't cut it that's one thing..but if not and he is cut or traded...as a Bronco we will never know.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

PostBroncos Lindsay Jones
Every day for 3 weeks at #Broncos practice, it has been 1. Orton. 2. Tebow/Quinn equal split of reps, sometimes every other play. 4. Weber.
4 minutes ago

PostBroncos Lindsay Jones
When it comes to depth chart, at any position, I believe what I see at practice. ....
5 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/postbroncos

Lindsay has been there every day.

[rationalfan]

i have zero inside information about this. and i really don't care where tebow is on the depth chart (just want the best player at QB to start). but some of the comments on this thread compel me to respond.

first, speaking from experience, local media don't always make better media. they have allegiances with people inside organizations and sometimes don't want to rock the boat so they can get a quote before the next deadline comes. and sometimes the local media won't write about the hot issues (not everyone has the balls of guys like woody paige).

other times, it's the opposite; people inside an organization will say things to national media because they won't have to see that face every day. they can be more relaxed, open and even careless. or, they hold grudges to local media for past stories and tell the juicy tidbits to the national media.

i've been a local guy competing with national media; and been so pissed that my "regular" sources told them shit they would never talk to me about - even after i asked the same questions. and i've been a bigger fish coming into a small pond and had people in hometown organizations answer everything i asked.

no idea who talked to silver or if this is true; but the guy wrote for sports illustrated for years. SI usually gets the best of the best in sports writers. silver probably got the story everyone else missed.

[slim]

I think buff should hook up with Lindsay so he can share some inside info.

[Dzone]

This is the most attention this Silver dude has ever had. LOL...Just say something bad about Tebow and it gets national attention...Merril Hoge is cashing in on Tebowmania. He is more famous now than he ever was. This is getting ridiculous.

[Agent of Orange]

Hope Fans will not boo Orton. That does not give us the best chance at victory.
No individual personality is bigger than the team.
People should be damn glad that Orton gained 10 pounds and has improved his game a lot over last year. If he and Brandon Loyd continue to throw those perfect passes with the DBs back to the QB because they are so worried about Loyds perfect routes and wicked skills. That could be worth a couple touchdowns a game if the O line is as improved as they say. If Orton proves all his critics wrong, isnt that in some ways like what we wanted Tebow to do? So what if Orton isnt as likeable as Tebow? Big ******* deal!

I would hate to see Tebow have to tweet out to his fans to show some class and stop booing Orton every time he steps on the field.

Don't hold your breath.

[Agent of Orange]

This is the problem I have. National media types come to practice once and then pretend to know WTF is going on. It's just silly....use an unnamed source to pile on Tebow. All a ploy to drum up readers, IMO.

As Dmac just said, Weber only took a handful of snaps at the practice that Silver attended. :laugh:

Another thing that happens is that rumors emerge from less than credible sources and then the national media acknowledges them as if they're true but even though they call them rumors. The national media thinks if it calls it a rumor, they're good even if they perpetuate this by discussing it as if it were true or credible.

[Watchthemiddle]

Every national media hack (if they haven't already been here) will be here over the next 2 weeks...just so they can pile on the Tebow story.

If your local, you report the actual facts..no drama, quote the coaches and go from there.

If you national, you have nothing to lose because your here for one day and can go see your blog get lit up based off of stuff that could or could not be true because you will not be seen at Dove Valley again for a year.

If you live outside of CO and have not been to Dove Valley...(fan or media) believe what you wish.

If you live here and have seen things with your OWN eyes...hopefully you will believe what you saw. Just saying

[rationalfan]

This is the most attention this Silver dude has ever had.

dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. silver's a big name in west coast sports writing. very big.


LOL...Just say something bad about Tebow and it gets national attention... This is getting ridiculous.

in this regard, you're totally right.

[I Eat Staples]

It wouldn't surprise me. Most people refuse to see how bad a passer Tebow really is.

[LawDog]

People (including Lindsay Jones, God bless her little heart) are missing the point of the article. Tebow has not been relegated to number 4 on the depth chart, but neither is he challenging Orton for the starting role. That is because Tebow is way behind in his development in a pro-style offense and needs to be given the time to improve. Orton is not the QB of the future and I'm certainly no Orton water-carrier, but I'm happy that he will be our starter rather than forcing Tebow to start and completely ruining him.

IMHO the FO is trying to get people to accept Orton and quit clamoring for Tebow to start before he is ready.

Have a great week everyone.

[Dzone]

So now we have a new debate : Who is the 3rd best qb on the team?
Ive never seen anything as crazy as Tebowmania. Theyre talking on 1043 about how Tebow is the lead story on all national sports media. This is absolutely nuts.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

People (including Lindsay Jones, God bless her little heart) are missing the point of the article. Tebow has not been relegated to number 4 on the depth chart, but neither is he challenging Orton for the starting role. That is because Tebow is way behind in his development in a pro-style offense and needs to be given the time to improve. Orton is not the QB of the future and I'm certainly no Orton water-carrier, but I'm happy that he will be our starter rather than forcing Tebow to start and completely ruining him.

IMHO the FO is trying to get people to accept Orton and quit clamoring for Tebow to start before he is ready.

Have a great week everyone.

Because Orton was brought here in a trade for Cutler, even if Tebow was not on the team, some will NEVER accept Orton, even though it was NOT Orton who caused the trade in the first place.

[Dzone]

dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. silver's a big name in west coast sports writing. very big.



in this regard, you're totally right.

dude, stop being smug about yourself... The dude is milking this for attention. Get over it.

[chazoe60]

People (including Lindsay Jones, God bless her little heart) are missing the point of the article. Tebow has not been relegated to number 4 on the depth chart, but neither is he challenging Orton for the starting role. That is because Tebow is way behind in his development in a pro-style offense and needs to be given the time to improve. Orton is not the QB of the future and I'm certainly no Orton water-carrier, but I'm happy that he will be our starter rather than forcing Tebow to start and completely ruining him.

IMHO the FO is trying to get people to accept Orton and quit clamoring for Tebow to start before he is ready.

Have a great week everyone.

I won't accept Orton but it has nothing to do with Tim Tebow and everything to do with Kyle Orton.

I think there is a large sect of Bronco fans who have been completely ignored during this entire mess, the Bronco fans who are not Tebow homers but just want anyone but Orton. I am in this group.

I can't wait til I never have to hear the name Kyle Orton again unless it's because Dumerville sacked his ass.

[Watchthemiddle]

Because Orton was brought here in a trade for Cutler, even if Tebow was not on the team, some will NEVER accept Orton, even though it was NOT Orton who caused the trade in the first place.

AMEN Carol.....and speaking of not being NFl ready or having good mechanics...atleast TT hasn't been in the league as long as Cutty and still struggling with the same scouting reports of poor mechanics like Cutty...

OOOOOPPPPPS.....different thread...


Back on topic.....Tebow is starting his second year...three starts under his belt...not OTA's and so be it, not ready to start.....atleast he wasn't a first rounder...drafted 11th overall and still struggling 6 years in.

:coffee:

[Northman]

Yea, Missy was just reading this stuff to me. Hard to believe but man i just dont know what to think anymore with this organization. Wouldnt it be in Fox and company's best interest to squash this kind of drama?

[Jsteve01]

dude, stop being smug about yourself... The dude is milking this for attention. Get over it.

he's milking it and he's an ass but Silver is a big time writer for a national outlet.

[Slick]

it has gone way past ridiculous at this point.

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[dogfish]

it has gone way past ridiculous at this point.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

you might have to come up here and regulate on some fools. . . .

[elsid13]

i have zero inside information about this. and i really don't care where tebow is on the depth chart (just want the best player at QB to start). but some of the comments on this thread compel me to respond.

first, speaking from experience, local media don't always make better media. they have allegiances with people inside organizations and sometimes don't want to rock the boat so they can get a quote before the next deadline comes. and sometimes the local media won't write about the hot issues (not everyone has the balls of guys like woody paige).

other times, it's the opposite; people inside an organization will say things to national media because they won't have to see that face every day. they can be more relaxed, open and even careless. or, they hold grudges to local media for past stories and tell the juicy tidbits to the national media.

i've been a local guy competing with national media; and been so pissed that my "regular" sources told them shit they would never talk to me about - even after i asked the same questions. and i've been a bigger fish coming into a small pond and had people in hometown organizations answer everything i asked.

no idea who talked to silver or if this is true; but the guy wrote for sports illustrated for years. SI usually gets the best of the best in sports writers. silver probably got the story everyone else missed.


Most fans are going to say that Silver doesn't know anything, but he is talented national recognized reporter, and he isn't going to make something up. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a couple of players and assistant coaches to confirm that quote.

[compucomp]

Yea, Missy was just reading this stuff to me. Hard to believe but man i just dont know what to think anymore with this organization. Wouldnt it be in Fox and company's best interest to squash this kind of drama?

If they wanted to squash it, they could easily do so. If they wanted to, the Orton trade rumors could still be continuing, but they made a clear declaration that Orton is their guy, and now those rumors are gone. But they are allowing the negative leaks about Tebow to flow like water.

When there's smoke, there's fire. This front office did not draft Tebow. They don't have a vested interest there. This combined with the whispers of cutting Tebow should make the front office's attitude towards Tebow clear.

[Northman]

If they wanted to squash it, they could easily do so. If they wanted to, the Orton trade rumors could still be continuing, but they made a clear declaration that Orton is their guy, and now those rumors are gone. But they are allowing the negative leaks about Tebow to flow like water.

When there's smoke, there's fire. This front office did not draft Tebow. They don't have a vested interest there. This combined with the whispers of cutting Tebow should make the front office's attitude towards Tebow clear.


Couldnt agree more. But, why crush the kid publically? If they feel he isnt a good QB ok, but to rub his nose in it without at least trying to get something significant for him? Just doesnt make a lot of sense to smear him publically. Everyone knew he was going to be a project anyway.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Come on FO - what's are you thinking - WHY are you wasting your time on trying to put the best team on the field, WHY are you wasting your time watching practices, WHY are you wasting your time checking for cuts by other teams, etc., etc., etc. You KNOW you should be staring at your computer 24/7 finding/reading EVERY article anyone writes in regards to the Broncos, and if you do NOT agree with what is written, you IMMEDIATELY need to respond.

[chazoe60]

WHY WHY WHY KNOW EVERY NOT IMMEDIATELY
:elefant::elefant::elefant::elefant::elefant: :elefant:

[Slick]

you might have to come up here and regulate on some fools. . . .

Dude. Hype paparazzi twitter blogs pod casts. It's ******* insanity.

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[Agent of Orange]

he's milking it and he's an ass but Silver is a big time writer for a national outlet.

That doesnt mean much. The national outlets aren't afraid of the gutter. They practice filth all the time.

[hamrob]

Hope Fans will not boo Orton. That does not give us the best chance at victory.
No individual personality is bigger than the team.
People should be damn glad that Orton gained 10 pounds and has improved his game a lot over last year. If he and Brandon Loyd continue to throw those perfect passes with the DBs back to the QB because they are so worried about Loyds perfect routes and wicked skills. That could be worth a couple touchdowns a game if the O line is as improved as they say. If Orton proves all his critics wrong, isnt that in some ways like what we wanted Tebow to do? So what if Orton isnt as likeable as Tebow? Big ******* deal!

I would hate to see Tebow have to tweet out to his fans to show some class and stop booing Orton every time he steps on the field.This isn't high school. This is the NFL. If Orton stinks on the field, he will get bood...and it will be loouuuuud! That's life in the NFL at the QB position.

Orton is set up nicely to do very well this year. He's got plenty of talent surrounding him, both on the line and the specialty positions. He's got a vastly improved running game and another year in this offense...and this offense is perfect for Kyle Orton. He will never (repeat never) have it this good.

If he craps the bed...he will be boooooooooo'd! Get ready.

[hamrob]

It wouldn't surprise me. Most people refuse to see how bad a passer Tebow really is.7-9 for 101yds is bad???

[Slick]

7-9 for 101yds is bad???


Yes because he didn't do it from the pocket.

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[hamrob]

Come on FO - what's are you thinking - WHY are you wasting your time on trying to put the best team on the field, WHY are you wasting your time watching practices, WHY are you wasting your time checking for cuts by other teams, etc., etc., etc. You KNOW you should be staring at your computer 24/7 finding/reading EVERY article anyone writes in regards to the Broncos, and if you do NOT agree with what is written, you IMMEDIATELY need to respond.They actually have a person (position) whose fulltime job...is to do...just that!

Just saying!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

They actually have a person (position) whose fulltime job...is to do...just that!

Just saying!

And that would be

[Denver Native (Carol)]

@Greg_A_Bedard Greg A. Bedard

Broncos source is as much at a loss about the Tebow comments as I am. Thinks it's totally unfair for 2yr QB. "Somebody has it out for him."


https://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/106111144267227136

Above referenced in:

http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-broncos/2011/8/23/2380323/tim-tebow-adam-weber-denver-broncos-quarterback

[dogfish]

Come on FO - what's are you thinking - WHY are you wasting your time on trying to put the best team on the field, WHY are you wasting your time watching practices, WHY are you wasting your time checking for cuts by other teams, etc., etc., etc. You KNOW you should be staring at your computer 24/7 finding/reading EVERY article anyone writes in regards to the Broncos, and if you do NOT agree with what is written, you IMMEDIATELY need to respond.

SERENITY NOW!!!

SERENITY NOW!!!








:D


take it easy on your blood pressure, carol. . . . ;)



this QB situation is gonna have you drinking rubbing alcohol in the back of the closet if you're not careful. . . .

[Dzone]

What matters i s what Sandy Clough has to say about all this...LOL

[hamrob]

And that would beWell, I'm not going to spend time looking for it. But, Xanders said exactly that a couple weeks ago in one of his videos from the broncos website. He said they have a person (and named him) that follows all the online media and other media sources.

[Dzone]

Project Tebow: Savior’s wings get clipped
Does the title of this article reveal anything about its authors intentions?

[dogfish]

And that would be

Jim Saccomano - Vice President of Corporate Communications


BUSINESS STAFF

MEDIA RELATIONS
Patrick Smyth - Executive Director of Media Relations
Rebecca Villanueva - Media Services Manager
Erich Schubert - Media Relations Coordinator


one of those folks, probably. . .




@Greg_A_Bedard Greg A. Bedard


https://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/106111144267227136

Above referenced in:

http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-broncos/2011/8/23/2380323/tim-tebow-adam-weber-denver-broncos-quarterback


seriously, this sucks. . . more unnamed sources, and it's not entirely clear whether the quote means that someone in the media (AKA, silver) "has it out for" tebow, or whether that's a reference to someone WITHIN the organization. . . and if it's the latter, we're screwed-- interorganizational warfare played out through the media is pretty much an unmitigated disaster. . . if it is the former (if the source is saying the media has an anti-tebow agenda), then i reiterate my desire to see an official comment from the team denouncing the silver quotes. . . something from one of the people listed above, or coach fox or elway. . .

IMO, it's gotten to the point that they would be so much better served putting out something definitive about tebow to prevent this national speculation from continuing to run rampant. . . i don't see how it's really in our best interest. . .

*shrugs*

[hamrob]

Couldnt agree more. But, why crush the kid publically? If they feel he isnt a good QB ok, but to rub his nose in it without at least trying to get something significant for him? Just doesnt make a lot of sense to smear him publically. Everyone knew he was going to be a project anyway.Because they are smart...clever...little minions!!!

Here is why:

Tebow has a following like no other....they (the broncos) need for everyone they can convince to believe that Tebow is a bust. That way they can cut him, trade him etc. and not have their fanbase turned upside down.

And they are succeeding in doing just that. If you check the latest DP poles on Tebow...they have been trending down. More votes for Quinn then for Tebow.

It's working folks. Mission accomplished by FXE!

[dogfish]

What matters i s what Sandy Clough has to say about all this...LOL

shut it!



:heh:

[PAINTERDAVE]

"Tim Tebow eats the brains of newborn Kittens!"

Story at 11.... on SHOK NEWS..

Next up...

"Al Davis... Pampers or Depends?" You make the call. :listen:

[Canmore]

"Tim Tebow eats the brains of newborn Kittens!"

Story at 11.... on SHOK NEWS..

Next up...

"Al Davis... Pampers or Depends?" You make the call. :listen:

Painter. Too funny. :laugh:

[MOtorboat]

Love the conspiracies...

Keep it up people. Keep it up!

[BeefStew25]

Sandy said the comments to Silver were kind of bush league.

[Nick]

As I stated during the first preseason, I wouldn't care if adam weber beats everyone out. As long as we know who are QB is going to be.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of him but would like tebow to play the first half next game because if he doesn't he is going to be on bench and not plugged in until were statistically out of playoffs and back in the same situation next year.

I like Tebow, he is overall just good guy, has heart, just not to accurate. if he doesn't fix his throwing ASAP and makes something happen. It will be really tough for him.

It is tough to have a scramble first type QB in NFL because of the risk of injury.

I would love to see Tebow excel and make something happen but if he doesn't and Adam Weber ultimately shows a lot more, he should be given the spot despite how much money Tebow is costing the Broncos.

Just on note I am a person that thinks we should just throw Tebow in beginning of the year and if he makes things happen or not this year.... At least we know. Even though looks like it will be Orton's job to lose during season.

[NightTerror218]

It is funny before preseason game 1 everyone bashed Tebow, after the game they praised him, after the 2nd preseason game they bash him. If he plays well in the next one they will love him. They bandwagon hoping is so annoying. The media is the worth of them too.

[Ravage!!!]

It is funny before preseason game 1 everyone bashed Tebow, after the game they praised him, after the 2nd preseason game they bash him. If he plays well in the next one they will love him. They bandwagon hoping is so annoying. The media is the worth of them too.

Uhmmm.... are you drunk? :lol: (talking about your typing, not opinion)

[NightTerror218]

Uhmmm.... are you drunk? :lol: (talking about your typing, not opinion)

No drunk on coffee #1 and just started. Only been up 2 hours.

[NightTerror218]

Fox response to this lame ass report

1 minute ago - by Lee Rasizer - Coach Fox refutes report about Tebow being No. 4
Coach John Fox reacted strongly to a Yahoo! Sports report that quoted “a highly knowledgeable member of the organization” as saying QB Tim Tebow would be No. 4 on the depth chart, if the competition solely was based on performance. “Maybe they heard it from the cook, I’m not sure,” Fox quipped. Broncos RapidReports

[Clipworthy]

Fox response to this lame ass report

1 minute ago - by Lee Rasizer - Coach Fox refutes report about Tebow being No. 4
Coach John Fox reacted strongly to a Yahoo! Sports report that quoted “a highly knowledgeable member of the organization” as saying QB Tim Tebow would be No. 4 on the depth chart, if the competition solely was based on performance. “Maybe they heard it from the cook, I’m not sure,” Fox quipped. Broncos RapidReports

bet Orton was the source :lol:

[MOtorboat]

bet Orton was the source :lol:

Now someone will use this speculation as fact for a reason to hate Orton even more two weeks from now...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

PostBroncos Lindsay Jones
Didn't have to. TT's still splitting No. 2 reps in practice. RT @ChristopherG6: but did fox deny #Tebow is 4th qb?
1 hour ago

PostBroncos Lindsay Jones
Fox joked w/ media today that source in @mikesilver's story cld have been anyone. Like the chef. "He talks to players every day," Fox said.
2 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/postbroncos

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Tim Tebow isn’t going anywhere. The Broncos aren’t about to cut bait after 3 weeks of pretend football.

National pundits watch him throw a couple of ducks at practice and they immediately write him off as a bust. Are you kidding me?

Watch the latest Vic’s Signature segment in the video clip below:

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/08/24/tebows-critics-are-more-impatient-than-he-is/

[Watchthemiddle]

Sorry MO and Clay....Tebow is not going anywhere.

I loved Fox's interview today..."It could have been the cook"

[MOtorboat]

Sorry MO and Clay....Tebow is not going anywhere.

I loved Fox's interview today..."It could have been the cook"

Huh?

And interesting, when Fox was defending Orton it was unprofessional, when he's defending Tebow, it's awesome...

[Watchthemiddle]

Huh?

And interesting, when Fox was defending Orton it was unprofessional, when he's defending Tebow, it's awesome...

Funny...when Fox is defending Orton its awesome, but when he is defending Tebow it's unprofessional?

[MOtorboat]

No, I didn't say that. I think it's hilarious both ways. I just find it interesting that when he asked the reporter if they got paid to count jerseys the first reaction was calling it unprofessional. This time, the first reaction was "I love that."

[dogfish]

guys, relax-- as long as he doesn't start defending quinn, we should be okay. . . .

[Northman]

guys, relax-- as long as he doesn't start defending quinn, we should be okay. . . .


Just so as long as its after he defends Webby.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

broncos_sacco Jim Saccomano
A serious concern for teams is granting access to outlets that provide incentives to writers based on page clicks. That is a problem. #fb
57 minutes ago

broncos_sacco Jim Saccomano
...Recent story in NYTimes says 24 of 25 top dailies have experienced record decline in circulation--Wall Street Jrnl the one exception. #fb
1 hour ago

broncos_sacco Jim Saccomano
...great pressure for headlines, and sometimes the tabloid mentality overtakes objectivity, at expense of some great journalists....#fb
1 hour ago

broncos_sacco Jim Saccomano
All media, all types and levels, desperate for headlines that will move product....#fb
1 hour ago

Jim Saccomano
broncos_sacco Jim Saccomano
Latest Bronco media/fan brushfire shows again, nothing in region generates interest/comment/passion like the Broncos. Nothing. #fb
1 hour ago

broncos_sacco Jim Saccomano
Post practice, Patrick Smyth declined to set up interview based "on speculative reports from anonymous sources." Great policy. #fb
2 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/broncos_sacco

[chazoe60]

Mo, just ti be in the record; I thought Fox's comment after the jersry questiin was awesome. I thought the question was stupid and absolutely ridiculous. I didn't care for Orton's response. If Orton's response would have been more along the lines of Fox's, I would have applauded him.

Fox took his frustration from being asked a stupid question out on the dolt that asked the Questiion. Orton took his fristration, from the same question, and turned it against the fans. Big difference.

[Dzone]

Funny...when Fox is defending Orton its awesome, but when he is defending Tebow it's unprofessional?
Dont pay attention to that dude. He only comes on here to pontificate and look for posters he can argue with.

[MOtorboat]

Mo, just ti be in the record; I thought Fox's comment after the jersry questiin was awesome. I thought the question was stupid and absolutely ridiculous. I didn't care for Orton's response. If Orton's response would have been more along the lines of Fox's, I would have applauded him.

Fox took his frustration from being asked a stupid question out on the dolt that asked the Questiion. Orton took his fristration, from the same question, and turned it against the fans. Big difference.

I wasn't really commenting on anything Orton said, at all. Immediately after the comment Fox made, it was called unprofessional. I thought it was hilarious, as do I this comment. I was commenting simply on the difference between the first response on this board to either comment by Fox.

[MOtorboat]

Dont pay attention to that dude. He only comes on here to pontificate and look for posters he can argue with.

WTE and I have posted together for a long time. I'm pretty sure we can handle the discussion between us.

Mmmmkay?

[dogfish]

WTE and I have posted together for a long time. I'm pretty sure we can handle the discussion between us.

Mmmmkay?

i'm not so sure about this, MO. . . .

WTM may not appreciate being mistaken for the worst troll ever. . . .


:welcome:

[MOtorboat]

i'm not so sure about this, MO. . . .

WTM may not appreciate being mistaken for the worst troll ever. . . .


:welcome:

Oh shit.

:couch:

[Npba900]

All I know is I saw what I saw last year -- it is inconcievable that he any worst than the guy who played those last 3 games. and that guy could win games and will players to be better.

and Fox's worried about Brady Quinns spirit??

it would be awesome to see Tebow get the time / reps / coaching / and tailored scheme to make him optimal and exploit his intangiables as a Bronco -- if they cannot do that -- get rid of him now so we can stop pretending it may one day happen.. Let this FO play with mediocrity until a blue chipper falls in their lap with a lucky pick..

The irony here is, many felt the same way about Hillis. Hillis had a pretty impressive 2008 season until he tore his hamstring ended his rookie year. Then in 2009, new HC, and we couldn't understand why McD had Hillis so far down the depth chart even with the running game struggling/non existent at time. And sat Hillis 3rd or 4th on the RB depth chart.

Now we see the same scenario with Tebow. New HC and HC who drafted TT was fired. Fans are saying "What about TT's" 3 games he started doesn't this count for anything!

The reality is, it took Hillis getting traded and going to another team to eventually show he can play at a high level and eventually made it too gracing the cover on Madden 2012. Could Tebow be dealt the same fate? The parallels are similar thats for sure. Tebow may simple need to go to another team where Tebow can run an offense that better suits his talents.

Its obvious EFX want TT to learn to play from the pocket and won't change the offense to fit Tebow's offensive skill sets.

[BroncoStud]

The irony here is, many felt the same way about Hillis. Hillis had a pretty impressive 2008 season until he tore his hamstring ended his rookie year. Then in 2009, new HC, and we couldn't understand why McD had Hillis so far down the depth chart even with the running game struggling/non existent at time. And sat Hillis 3rd or 4th on the RB depth chart.

Now we see the same scenario with Tebow. New HC and HC who drafted TT was fired. Fans are saying "What about TT's" 3 games he started doesn't this count for anything!

The reality is, it took Hillis getting traded and going to another team to eventually show he can play at a high level and eventually made it too gracing the cover on Madden 2012. Could Tebow be dealt the same fate? The parallels are similar thats for sure. Tebow may simple need to go to another team where Tebow can run an offense that better suits his talents.

Its obvious EFX want TT to learn to play from the pocket and won't change the offense to fit Tebow's offensive skill sets.

There is a BIG difference. First, and most obvious, is the complexity of the position. Playing FB/HB in the NFL isn't quite the same as being a starting QB, now is it?

Secondly, I doubt that Tebow hit on Fox's wife. Hills wasn't in the doghouse because of his talent or ability, McDaniels had a personal issue with Hillis and let it trump his obligation as the HC/GM of this organization to put the best players on the field.

You're a Tebow hater, we get that, but he was never supposed to be starting by now, he was always going to need a few years to make the leap. It isn't his fault that the Broncos got so bad so fast, and Orton played so horribly down the stretch.

The 3 games Tim played he looked pretty damn solid for a rookie project, we even won 1 and nearly another. Your quest to hate on Tebow is pretty feeble dude, he hasn't even had an opportunity to fail - yet. Orton is a 7 year vet, Quinn is a vet but even he hasn't truly had his opportunity to fail, and he was drafted as high as Tebow.

Comparing Hillis to Tebow is ridiculous and lacks merit. Tebow will get his shot and if he fails THEN he might warrant some of this nonsenses but as it stands it's just the media and some idiot fans piling on some kid for trying his ass off to play football and do it with solid character.

With a litte "Luck" this will all be a thing of the past next year.

[Dzone]

The funny thing about all thi s is that Adam Weber has vaulted from total obscurity to now having crowds of reporters begging to interview him. LOL

[broncobryce]

If Adam Weber is better than Tebow, then my dick is bigger than the entire universe.

[bcbronc]

If Adam Weber is better than Tebow, then my dick is bigger than the entire universe.

good luck finding a pair of jeans.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Just saw a Fox interview..
he basicly said this is pure bull crap.

[Dzone]

JT the brick right now is talking about the Massive national media coverage of Tebowmania...How it is dwarfing every other story in the NFL...saying that it is the perfect storm and that this story is not going away

[BroncoStud]

JT the brick right now is talking about the Massive national media coverage of Tebowmania...How it is dwarfing every other story in the NFL...saying that it is the perfect storm and that this story is not going away

It will go away once the season starts. All Tim needs to do is learn, improve, and buy his time. He'll get a better shot next season. If he isn't ready, he isn't ready. But to use absolute terms like Boomer and Hoge have been is just ridiculous. Tebow looked pretty darn poised in his 3 starts last year, to say he can't play in this league is a bit of a stretch.

A full offseason with the coaches and WRs can't hurt his cause, the lockout was the worst thing that could happen to him.

[PAINTERDAVE]

It will go away once the season starts. All Tim needs to do is learn, improve, and buy his time. He'll get a better shot next season. If he isn't ready, he isn't ready. But to use absolute terms like Boomer and Hoge have been is just ridiculous. Tebow looked pretty darn poised in his 3 starts last year, to say he can't play in this league is a bit of a stretch.

A full offseason with the coaches and WRs can't hurt his cause, the lockout was the worst thing that could happen to him.

Alfred Williams is insisting that what he has seen in practice..
around the team etc..
that Tebow WILL be playing... that they will use him as a weapon..
Wildcat or whatever...

He keeps insisting that Tim has a role on this 2011 team...


That will keep the talking heads buzzing.

This is the whole thing about Tebow... I dont think they are gonna quit yammering about him.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't have a doubt that Tebow will be used to some capacity this year. I know people at practices often saw specific plays for Tebow....running the ball. So we'll see him on the goalline, I'm quite confident.

[Tned]

I don't have a doubt that Tebow will be used to some capacity this year. I know people at practices often saw specific plays for Tebow....running the ball. So we'll see him on the goalline, I'm quite confident.

Yea, I think in the last couple days someone quoted a media type pointing out that there is no reason that Fox would tip his hand if he was going to use Tebow in Wildcat/goal line type situations, but instead save that for a surprise in the Raider game, or whenever he chooses to roll it out.

[vandammage13]

It will go away once the season starts. All Tim needs to do is learn, improve, and buy his time. He'll get a better shot next season. If he isn't ready, he isn't ready. But to use absolute terms like Boomer and Hoge have been is just ridiculous. Tebow looked pretty darn poised in his 3 starts last year, to say he can't play in this league is a bit of a stretch.

A full offseason with the coaches and WRs can't hurt his cause, the lockout was the worst thing that could happen to him.

It will only go away if we are winning...If we are struggling again, you can bet on the controversy boiling over.

[SOCALORADO.]

It will go away once the season starts. All Tim needs to do is learn, improve, and buy his time. He'll get a better shot next season. If he isn't ready, he isn't ready. But to use absolute terms like Boomer and Hoge have been is just ridiculous. Tebow looked pretty darn poised in his 3 starts last year, to say he can't play in this league is a bit of a stretch.

A full offseason with the coaches and WRs can't hurt his cause, the lockout was the worst thing that could happen to him.

If they draft Luck or Barkley, or any other QB in the top 2 rounds, TT is gone.
Or off to TE.
The FO are the one bidding their time, saying all the politically correct, text book answers and simply waiting for right time to move TT.

[BroncoStud]

It will only go away if we are winning...If we are struggling again, you can bet on the controversy boiling over.

I was referring to the Tebow-hate. If we are losing that makes Tebow all the more loved and the negativity will again shift to Orton.

[BroncoStud]

If they draft Luck or Barkley, or any other QB in the top 2 rounds, TT is gone.
Or off to TE.
The FO are the one bidding their time, saying all the politically correct, text book answers and simply waiting for right time to move TT.

It's possible. Or there is that chance that Tebow will be the man NEXT year. Orton could do down in week 1 and Tebow could have a good season, anything could happen.

[NightTerror218]

If they draft Luck or Barkley, or any other QB in the top 2 rounds, TT is gone.
Or off to TE.
The FO are the one bidding their time, saying all the politically correct, text book answers and simply waiting for right time to move TT.

I doubt it. Quinn and Orton are in contract years, Tebow still has several years and they just gave him almost 7 million. If he is as bad as you say, they why wait till end of season, should have ditched him before that check was cut. No way Tebow will be a TE. He may backup a newly drafted QB but will not be cut IMO.

[NightTerror218]

It's possible. Or there is that chance that Tebow will be the man NEXT year. Orton could do down in week 1 and Tebow could have a good season, anything could happen.

Or Quinn and Orton do not resign and its up to Tebow and a drafted rookie for starting position. We would be in the Panthers shoes with Clausen and Newton. Except Tebow is better then Clausen and Newton is a future bust since he is making money like Russell.

[dogfish]

The FO are the one bidding their time, saying all the politically correct, text book answers and simply waiting for right time to unleash TT on an unsuspecting league.



:welcome:

[slim]

Dog, why did you change your user name?

[NightTerror218]

I don't have a doubt that Tebow will be used to some capacity this year. I know people at practices often saw specific plays for Tebow....running the ball. So we'll see him on the goalline, I'm quite confident.

So Tim will be our red zone QB? Well that would help us win games since Orton fails.

[slim]

:laugh:

[slim]

Classic.

[vandammage13]

Hindsight is 20/20, but in retrospect, these comments are amusing nonetheless...


Its obvious EFX want TT to learn to play from the pocket and won't change the offense to fit Tebow's offensive skill sets.


It wouldn't surprise me. Most people refuse to see how bad a passer Tebow really is.


Look what happens when a front office who did not draft the anchor baby franchise quarterback has to deal with the situation. The previously anointed one is now deep down on the depth chart.

This is McDaniels's Broncos legacy. Not only did he deplete the roster of talent, he has forced the subsequent front office to deal with this ridiculous controversy and distraction because he thought Tebow could actually play quarterback in the NFL. If it weren't for McDaniels Tebow would have been a 4th round pick or later and probably trying out for running back or tight end at this point.


Actually Slim, you won't get a clearer picture of what is what in Dove Valley right now than this article by Michael Silver. He has a long history with the organization and excellent contacts, you'll just have to trust me on that one.


...In the meantime, as Dzone stated, it's time to get behind Orton because at this point he gives us the best chance to win.

[Dzone]

:pound:

[Dreadnought]

Youse guys are brutal...but so was this thread. Oh Lordy...:lol:

[Dreadnought]

I won't accept Orton but it has nothing to do with Tim Tebow and everything to do with Kyle Orton.

I think there is a large sect of Bronco fans who have been completely ignored during this entire mess, the Bronco fans who are not Tebow homers but just want anyone but Orton. I am in this group.

I can't wait til I never have to hear the name Kyle Orton again unless it's because Dumerville sacked his ass.

Then again, Brother Chazoe was near clairvoyant

[NightTerror218]

what ever happened to some of those posters? SOCAL just roll over and quit?

[Jsteve01]

Socal, Cugel, who else is missing?

[Northman]

I do miss SoCal's Andrew Luck pics. I hope he is ok.

[LawDog]

I'm still waiting on Silver to post a follow-up article with reactions from those who were so unenthusiastic about Tebow before the season. They need to eat some crow along with the rest of us who were trying to make sense of an unusually goofy situation.

***Edit: Silver does reference the "skepticism" he encountered in Dove Valley last August in his December 2, 2011 column. But Micheal, do some real reporting and get some quotes from those guys. It's not like you lost their number...

[BroncoJoe]

Socal, Cugel, who else is missing?

Lancane.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[catfish]

to be fair you can't prove Weber isn't better

[Dreadnought]

Lancane.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Link has been pretty scarce since the Minnesota game. That one may have broken their will

[Dreadnought]

to be fair you can't prove Weber isn't better

That is Zambini logic. Please stop right now

[catfish]

That is Zambini logic. Please stop right now

I'm just saying all reports say Weber is a better passer

[Jsteve01]

I'm just saying all reports say Weber is a better passer

lol he is a more natural passer, doesn't make him a better all around football player.

[catfish]

lol he is a more natural passer, doesn't make him a better all around football player.

doesn't matter, QBs job is to throw the ball, they said so on ESPN

[MOtorboat]

doesn't matter, QBs job is to throw the ball, they said so on ESPN

I know you're being sarcastic, but they aren't wrong.

[catfish]

I know you're being sarcastic, but they aren't wrong.

A quarterbacks job is to run the offense and win the game. In the last few years the offenses that have been dominant are the west coast style which rely more heavily on an accurate QB...that is far different than saying a QB's job is to throw the ball

[broncobryce]

If Adam Weber is better than Tebow, then my dick is bigger than the entire universe.

I kinda wish it was true, but I'm not sure my wife would agree.

[MOtorboat]

A quarterbacks job is to run the offense and win the game. In the last few years the offenses that have been dominant are the west coast style which rely more heavily on an accurate QB...that is far different than saying a QB's job is to throw the ball

I'm not going to argue the winning thing, although I will say "winning" is more than six games. This has been hashed and rehashed, but...

There is a damn good reason the best passers in the game win championships. A lot of it is the evolution of the position, the offenses and the rules.

[catfish]

I'm not going to argue the winning thing, although I will say "winning" is more than six games. This has been hashed and rehashed, but...

There is a damn good reason the best passers in the game win championships. A lot of it is the evolution of the position, the offenses and the rules.

I don't disagree with you, I think the passing game definitely needs to be there. Just think running capability add a whole new level as far as difficulty to defend.

So far what I have seen from Tebow as a pro is he does what is needed to win the game and so far not much more....I don't know if it is a product of poor play or conservative playcalling or what. If the game calls for running it 22 times so be it, if he needs to shoot it out he will go that way.

will be interesting to see how he does against Chicago because I think the run won't be there. Would like to see a game where they take the lead and run away with it.

[DenBronx]

:lol:


This was a good thread to bump.

[broncobryce]

Marino never won a championship.

[MOtorboat]

Marino never won a championship.

People really have a difficult time understanding the difference between, essentially, Pre-Brady/Manning and Post-Brady/Manning.

The game has changed and that is a bad, bad argument.

[broncobryce]

I forgot, it's thread voodoo, not Tebow winning these games.

[MOtorboat]

I forgot, it's thread voodoo, not Tebow winning these games.

Let me know when you can make a coherent argument and can understand the evolution of the quarterback position in the last 10 years and why bringing up Marino's career isn't a very good argument for why Tebow shouldn't learn how to become a competent NFL quarterback.

Oh, and really, get a sense of humor.

[Dreadnought]

People really have a difficult time understanding the difference between, essentially, Pre-Brady/Manning and Post-Brady/Manning.

The game has changed and that is a bad, bad argument.

Well, some us us are quite familiar with that theory, we just reject most of it. The game was not that much different in 1983 than today. 1971? Different matter, and yes, it was indeed very different in important ways. I think '83 is more similar to 2011 than it was to '71. That's another matter though, for another place.

On the matter at hand, you and I Eat Staples in particular deserve credit for not cutting and running as the wins piled up. This demonstrates a love of the Broncos trumping a love of being proved right. Admirable traits IMO

[MOtorboat]

Well, some us us are quite familiar with that theory, we just reject most of it. The game was not that much different in 1983 than today. 1971? Different matter, and yes, it was indeed very different in important ways. I think '83 is more similar to 2011 than it was to '71. That's another matter though, for another place.

On the matter at hand, you and I Eat Staples in particular deserve credit for not cutting and running as the wins piled up. This demonstrates a love of the Broncos trumping a love of being proved right. Admirable traits IMO

I am, and still continue to be on the Tebow fence. I still have my reservations, and it's because of the evolution of the game and the rules in the last 10 years.

And no longer will six wins fool me.

[Pudge]

"@NFLfootballinfo: With win on Sun, @Denver_Broncos would be 3rd team to win 6 consecutive games after starting season 2-5 or worse (70, Cin; 05, Min)"

Just a stat I got from Twitter thought I would share

[catfish]

I am, and still continue to be on the Tebow fence. I still have my reservations, and it's because of the evolution of the game and the rules in the last 10 years.

And no longer will six wins fool me.

It is a picket fence and the posts are in very uncomfortable places....hence the grumpy attitude ;)

[chazoe60]

I do think there is some validity in the belief that being different can be an advantage. No one runs the ball like we do, and I'm not just talking about the option because we only ran that 6 times last week. I'm referring to number of attempts. We run the ball more than any team in the league and we do it successfully, especially in the second half.

Because it has turned into a passing league teams' defenses are built mainly to stop the pass. Who says a maverick team that runs the ball like crazy and doesn't turn the ball over, can't win a championship?

I play a lot of poker and one fundamental truth in poler that will help you win is to play oposite of your oponents. If the table is playing tight then you should be a maniac. If the table is full of maniacs play tight. I think the same kind of philosophy could win a SB in the NFL.

[catfish]

I do think there is some validity in the belief that being different can be an advantage. No one runs the ball like we do, and I'm not just talking about the option because we only ran that 6 times last week. I'm referring to number of attempts. We run the ball more than any team in the league and we do it successfully, especially in the second half.

Because it has turned into a passing league teams' defenses are built mainly to stop the pass. Who says a maverick team that runs the ball like crazy and doesn't turn the ball over, can't win a championship?

I play a lot of poker and one fundamental truth in poler that will help you win is to play oposite of your oponents. If the table is playing tight then you should be a maniac. If the table is full of maniacs play tight. I think the same kind of philosophy could win a SB in the NFL.

I like the poker analogy. My analogy has always been boxing...right now Denver doesn't have the tools to go blow for blow with the knockout kings(Green Bay, Patriots) on offense, but there is more than one way to win a fight....Denver is the guy with quick hands who plans to win by points, occasionally they will get knocked out, and points may not be the most exciting way to win, but a W is a W

[vandammage13]

to be fair you can't prove Weber isn't better

Youre right, we don't know for sure, but based on the evidence from his last season in college I would say that he isn't.

My wife is a University of Minnesota grad and I have been forced to watch Gopher games on Saturdays since we have been married...

Once Decker left, Weber was average to terrible his Senior year. While he may be a slightly better pure passer than our current starter, Weber displayed absolutely no playmaking ability or ability to carry a team.

Not saying Weber can't develop into a solid QB, but from what I saw from him in college (and again, I saw a lot of Gopher games with Weber at the helm), the deck is heavily stacked against him ever becoming anything more than a solid backup based on what I've seen.

[catfish]

Youre right, we don't know for sure, but based on the evidence from his last season in college I would say that he isn't.

My wife is a University of Minnesota grad and I have been forced to watch Gopher games on Saturdays since we have been married...

Once Decker left, Weber was average to terrible his Senior year. While he may be a slightly better pure passer than our current starter, Weber displayed absolutely no playmaking ability or ability to carry a team.

Not saying Weber can't develop into a solid QB, but from what I saw from him in college (and again, I saw a lot of Gopher games with Weber at the helm), the deck is heavily stacked against him ever becoming anything more than a solid backup based on what I've seen.

I have it on good authority that College stats don't matter, he averaged like 50 yds per attempt in the preseason. I don't see any reason that those numbers wouldn't continue

[vandammage13]

I know you're being sarcastic, but they aren't wrong.

They aren't wrong in the sense that passing is one of the jobs of the QB, but it isn't the only job.

There's a lot more that goes into playing QB than having an uncanny ability to sling it...

If that were the case, guys like Cutler and Romo would have a championship by now.

I realize that accuracy is probably one of the most important attributes that a QB can have, but I think TT is showing that protecting the ball is probably the most important tangible attribute of all.

[Tned]

People really have a difficult time understanding the difference between, essentially, Pre-Brady/Manning and Post-Brady/Manning.

The game has changed and that is a bad, bad argument.

The game, in terms of passing friendly moves and free agency (a while before Brady/Manning), certainly has changed, but I'm not sure I understand what you are getting out in terms of Marino not winning a SB.

[vandammage13]

The game, in terms of passing friendly moves and free agency (a while before Brady/Manning), certainly has changed, but I'm not sure I understand what you are getting out in terms of Marino not winning a SB.

I could be wrong, but I think he's saying having an elite passer is more important to winning a SB than it was during the Marino era.

[MOtorboat]

The game, in terms of passing friendly moves and free agency (a while before Brady/Manning), certainly has changed, but I'm not sure I understand what you are getting out in terms of Marino not winning a SB.

Well, I believe the argument was being made that Marino didn't win a Super Bowl therefore Tebow doesn't have to become a top passer, and I think that's a terrible argument. I can see no other reasoning for that statement.

It was a different era and somewhat of an anamoly that he didn't win one. He's one of only a few elite passers to never win one, and now that the elite passers are becoming more common and the game switches to what it has become with the passing offenses and the rules, I still think Tebow will have to be an elite passer to win a championship.

[Tned]

I am, and still continue to be on the Tebow fence. I still have my reservations, and it's because of the evolution of the game and the rules in the last 10 years.

And no longer will six wins fool me.


It is a picket fence and the posts are in very uncomfortable places....hence the grumpy attitude ;)

For the first time in a few years, I actually think the Broncos have a chance to win if they are trailling in the 4th quarter. Dang, even trailing at half time left me feeling we had almost no chance.

That said, I'm still "jury's still out" when it comes to Tebow. Last Sunday was a step in the right direction, but I don't believe Tebow, and much more importantly, the Broncos, can be successful long term, if Tebow isn't capable of winning games exclusively by passing the ball.

Now, unless he regresses and he and the Broncos lose two or three of the last four, then I think he's earned an offseason of work with the coaches and to be the starter in 2012, and that will be the real evaluation period of whether he can be the Broncos long term QB.

What we've seen today is great, and I don't think we would be in the playoff mix if they had kept playing Orton or even gone to Quinn, but that in and of itself is not enough "proof" that Tebow is the guy.

[vandammage13]

Well, I believe the argument was being made that Marino didn't win a Super Bowl therefore Tebow doesn't have to become a top passer, and I think that's a terrible argument. I can see no other reasoning for that statement.

It was a different era and somewhat of an anamoly that he didn't win one. He's one of only a few elite passers to never win one, and now that the elite passers are becoming more common and the game switches to what it has become with the passing offenses and the rules, I still think Tebow will have to be an elite passer to win a championship.

More than one way to skin a cat.

I think the fact that we are playing a style different from the one everyone else is running is an advantage.

Defenses are being built to defend the pass in this era, and they are used to scheming against it now.

Makes it tough to gameplan against a unique offense when you only have a few days of practice to prepare.

[catfish]

For the first time in a few years, I actually think the Broncos have a chance to win if they are trailling in the 4th quarter. Dang, even trailing at half time left me feeling we had almost no chance.

That said, I'm still "jury's still out" when it comes to Tebow. Last Sunday was a step in the right direction, but I don't believe Tebow, and much more importantly, the Broncos, can be successful long term, if Tebow isn't capable of winning games exclusively by passing the ball.

Now, unless he regresses and he and the Broncos lose two or three of the last four, then I think he's earned an offseason of work with the coaches and to be the starter in 2012, and that will be the real evaluation period of whether he can be the Broncos long term QB.

What we've seen today is great, and I don't think we would be in the playoff mix if they had kept playing Orton or even gone to Quinn, but that in and of itself is not enough "proof" that Tebow is the guy.

I don't think Tebow is an ideal QB for the pass happy offenses like the Pats or GB, I think he is a perfect fit for the offense that Fox wants to run. Throw it 15-20 times a game for big chunks, don't turn it over, control the clock with the run.

The offense that Fox is running is the best use of the weapons you have on the team right now....get some pro-bowl receivers and a elite passing QB and I am all for moving to a pass happy offense. Point being you don't have the tools at any position to run an offense like New England or GB. Your weapons are on the ground, I don't see Fox moving in another direction

[MOtorboat]

For the first time in a few years, I actually think the Broncos have a chance to win if they are trailling in the 4th quarter. Dang, even trailing at half time left me feeling we had almost no chance.

That said, I'm still "jury's still out" when it comes to Tebow. Last Sunday was a step in the right direction, but I don't believe Tebow, and much more importantly, the Broncos, can be successful long term, if Tebow isn't capable of winning games exclusively by passing the ball.

Now, unless he regresses and he and the Broncos lose two or three of the last four, then I think he's earned an offseason of work with the coaches and to be the starter in 2012, and that will be the real evaluation period of whether he can be the Broncos long term QB.

What we've seen today is great, and I don't think we would be in the playoff mix if they had kept playing Orton or even gone to Quinn, but that in and of itself is not enough "proof" that Tebow is the guy.

Last Sunday was absolutely a great step in the right direction.

Ben Roethlisberger is the type of player I think Tebow needs to become.

[vandammage13]

I don't think Tebow is an ideal QB for the pass happy offenses like the Pats or GB, I think he is a perfect fit for the offense that Fox wants to run. Throw it 15-20 times a game for big chunks, don't turn it over, control the clock with the run.

The offense that Fox is running is the best use of the weapons you have on the team right now....get some pro-bowl receivers and a elite passing QB and I am all for moving to a pass happy offense. Point being you don't have the tools at any position to run an offense like New England or GB. Your weapons are on the ground, I don't see Fox moving in another direction

Love that sig vid, cat.:beer:

[Dreadnought]

More than one way to skin a cat.

I think the fact that we are playing a style different from the one everyone else is running is an advantage.

Defenses are being built to defend the pass in this era, and they are used to scheming against it now.

Makes it tough to gameplan against a unique offense when you only have a few days of practice to prepare.

I agree. I also would argue that it is a solid football offense, not a gimmick offense at all. It is based on proven football fundamentals at its core. When we are more consistently passing 20-25 times a game with success it could be devastating, and that is because we aren't copycatting other clubs.

[Tned]

Well, I believe the argument was being made that Marino didn't win a Super Bowl therefore Tebow doesn't have to become a top passer, and I think that's a terrible argument. I can see no other reasoning for that statement.

It was a different era and somewhat of an anamoly that he didn't win one. He's one of only a few elite passers to never win one, and now that the elite passers are becoming more common and the game switches to what it has become with the passing offenses and the rules, I still think Tebow will have to be an elite passer to win a championship.

I guess it depends what you call an elite passer. Eli Manning really isn't an elite passer. Most wouldn't call Big Ben an elite passer, but instead an elite QB -- he gets it done, but doesn't always look good getting there.

Obviously the Ravens and Bucs didn't have elite passers when they won. So, three, and arguably four, of the 12 post-Broncos SB were won by teams without elite passers.

When you add in teams that went to the SB, regardless of if they won, the number of non-elite passers (although this is an undefined term) increases.

Trent Dilfer (won)
Brad Johnson (won)

Steve McNair
Kerry Collins
Rich Gannon
Jake Dehlohmme
Donovan McNabb
Matt Hasselbeck
Rex Grossman

Few will refer to those QB's as "elite" and as I said, many would also argue that Eli Manning is an "elite" passer, despite so much hype surrounding his entry into the league.

Just because Warner, Brees, Brady, Manning & now Rodgers have been the big names in most of the last 12 SB's, it's important to not be blinded by the five big names.

If you look at the total number of QBs to play in the SB the last 12 years, there have been fewer "elite" passers than there have been solid/average passers.

[Tned]

Last Sunday was absolutely a great step in the right direction.

Ben Roethlisberger is the type of player I think Tebow needs to become.

Agreed on both counts.


I don't think Tebow is an ideal QB for the pass happy offenses like the Pats or GB, I think he is a perfect fit for the offense that Fox wants to run. Throw it 15-20 times a game for big chunks, don't turn it over, control the clock with the run.

The offense that Fox is running is the best use of the weapons you have on the team right now....get some pro-bowl receivers and a elite passing QB and I am all for moving to a pass happy offense. Point being you don't have the tools at any position to run an offense like New England or GB. Your weapons are on the ground, I don't see Fox moving in another direction

I agree that Tebow is a good fit for a run first, ball control offense, but that has a QB that can make big plays at the end to come out on top of a close game (what you often get with a ball control, defensive focused game plan).

As MO said, and I have mentioned in the past, if he keeps developing then what we can hope for is a Big Ben type player. Typically isn't counted on to win the game with 35+ passes, but can if that's what's needed. The big thing Ben brings to the game is the ability to extend the passing play, whether it's moving out of the pocket, or just shrugging off a pass rusher.

The play where Tebow ducked around Randall and stiff armed the LB, before hitting DT, is the "perfect" example of how Tebow's mobility can be used to win a lot of games. Tebow running 10+ times is NOT the way to long term success.

[catfish]

Agreed on both counts.



I agree that Tebow is a good fit for a run first, ball control offense, but that has a QB that can make big plays at the end to come out on top of a close game (what you often get with a ball control, defensive focused game plan).

As MO said, and I have mentioned in the past, if he keeps developing then what we can hope for is a Big Ben type player. Typically isn't counted on to win the game with 35+ passes, but can if that's what's needed. The big thing Ben brings to the game is the ability to extend the passing play, whether it's moving out of the pocket, or just shrugging off a pass rusher.

The play where Tebow ducked around Randall and stiff armed the LB, before hitting DT, is the "perfect" example of how Tebow's mobility can be used to win a lot of games. Tebow running 10+ times is NOT the way to long term success.

Agree 99% only disagreement is I can see running Approx 10 times a game and only in vital times or when the read is wide open for a huge gain and a slide/TD at the end(Jets game)....more than that I agree with you.

I am a big proponent of Defense wins championships with the QB not losing you the game. More games are lost by a QB than are won....see Ponder, Christian

[vandammage13]

I agree. I also would argue that it is a solid football offense, not a gimmick offense at all. It is based on proven football fundamentals at its core. When we are more consistently passing 20-25 times a game with success it could be devastating, and that is because we aren't copycatting other clubs.

I heard Michael Irvin say it best on NFL Network (I think after the Jets game).

He elluded to the fact that we all grew up being taught that solid D, a good running game, and limiting turnovers is championship football....

And that is exactly what the Broncos are doing with TT at QB.

Just because teams have found different ways to have success doesn't mean the old way still doesn't work.

I think that formula can still work in the NFL, provided that you can make the occasional big play in the passing game, which is exactly what TT has been able to do.

[MOtorboat]

I would actually argue that Roethlisberger has become one of the best passers in the game.

And I think Eli is severely underrated.

[Tned]

I would actually argue that Roethlisberger has become one of the best passers in the game.

And I think Eli is severely underrated.

Ben does a lot with a little and I agree he has become one of the better QBs, and an efficient passer, but few would put him in the category of Brady, Manning, Brees & Rodgers in terms of pure passing skills. He does it differently.

As to Eli. He may be underrated, but that's because he has underperformed expectations by a LONG shot. In this pass happy league we keep talking about, Eli's career stats are a 58% completion stats and 82 passer rating. As we've discussed ad nausea, in this passer friendly league, those are well below average stats. His TD to INT rate is bad as well.


Agree 99% only disagreement is I can see running Approx 10 times a game and only in vital times or when the read is wide open for a huge gain and a slide/TD at the end(Jets game)....more than that I agree with you.

I am a big proponent of Defense wins championships with the QB not losing you the game. More games are lost by a QB than are won....see Ponder, Christian

I should have added that while I think they should have him move out of the pocket, either designed or on a scramble, with a plan to throw, if he sees nothing but green grass in front of him, he should grab the quick 10+ yards and go out of bounds or slide. It's all of the designed between the tackles runs, and read option stuff I think has to go after this transition period.

[Dreadnought]

I should have added that while I think they should have him move out of the pocket, either designed or on a scramble, with a plan to throw, if he sees nothing but green grass in front of him, he should grab the quick 10+ yards and go out of bounds or slide. It's all of the designed between the tackles runs, and read option stuff I think has to go after this transition period.

I don't see any reason to completely eliminate the read-option and QB draws, as long as they remain just part of an arsenal of offensive weapons, not the main base offense. Anytime you can make opponents fret, worry, and plan for something they are unfamiliar with that is a win for you. The Chargers mounted no effective pass rush versus Tebow because they were so freaked out over containing his running that they failed to pressure him at all.

We're already mostly there; the option was only run a few times v. the Vikings.

[Jsteve01]

Tneds original point is valid though. For us to be able to reach elite level, Tim will have to be able to let her rip in the passing game. We can kid ourselves and act like this brand of football could beat elite passing teams like say New Orleans and Green Bay, but with the way the rules favor the passing game now, we have to be able to open it up through the air in those types of match ups.

Im not saying throw the running game to the wayside, but when Green Bay is on there is not a defense in the league that can stop them. Three and outs wont cut it and our horrible third down percentage won't either. Like I said yesterday Im all for going full on smash mouth but when we get in games against great passing teams we'll have to be able to complete passes to sustain drives.

Our defense overall is much improved but other than the San Diego game we've still been horrid in pass defense. That needs to improve as well.

[Mike]

Ben does a lot with a little and I agree he has become one of the better QBs, and an efficient passer, but few would put him in the category of Brady, Manning, Brees & Rodgers in terms of pure passing skills. He does it differently.

As to Eli. He may be underrated, but that's because he has underperformed expectations by a LONG shot. In this pass happy league we keep talking about, Eli's career stats are a 58% completion stats and 82 passer rating. As we've discussed ad nausea, in this passer friendly league, those are well below average stats. His TD to INT rate is bad as well.

Agreed that they are not in the same passing category. But few are. I would gladly take a QB with Roeths ability and build a team around him.

Tebow's ability to look clutch situations in the eye and not back down is something that can't be down-played. Plenty of QBs that have way more passing ability fold under pressure. That alone is worth giving him more time...throw in his progression over the last couple of weeks and I don't see how you can't give him more time.

I see Tebow becoming a better Roethlisberger with the right coaching. And I hope that happens.

[Dreadnought]

Tneds original point is valid though. For us to be able to reach elite level, Tim will have to be able to let her rip in the passing game. We can kid ourselves and act like this brand of football could beat elite passing teams like say New Orleans and Green Bay, but with the way the rules favor the passing game now, we have to be able to open it up through the air in those types of match ups.



Its not kidding ourselves at all. The 2007 Giants had one of the weaker passing attacks in the League in '07, and did much more offensive damage with the run game and a ferocious pass rush. Eli Manning may be evolving into an elite passer, but he sure as Hell wasn't in '07 as he racked up a terrible 73.9 QB rating that year. He often played clutch football, but that is different than being "elite"

It seems like there is always in every era of pro football a supposed "correct" way to build winning football teams. I don't think this has anything to do with the rules themselves, and everything to do with reactive "groupthink." Bill Walsh (with adm ittedly an assist from the new illegal contact rules) brilliantly overturned a decade of hidebound conventional wisdom with the WCO. Now, many of Walsh's principals have themselves evolved into the new conventional wisdom. I never trust conventional wisdom.

[Jsteve01]

Its not kidding ourselves at all. The 2007 Giants had one of the weaker passing attacks in the League in '07, and did much more offensive damage with the run game and a ferocious pass rush. Eli Manning may be evolving into an elite passer, but he sure as Hell wasn't in '07 as he racked up a terrible 73.9 QB rating that year. He often played clutch football, but that is different than being "elite"

It seems like there is always in every era of pro football a supposed "correct" way to build winning football teams. I don't think this has anything to do with the rules themselves, and everything to do with reactive "groupthink." Bill Walsh (with adm ittedly an assist from the new illegal contact rules) brilliantly overturned a decade of hidebound conventional wisdom with the WCO. Now, many of Walsh's principals have themselves evolved into the new conventional wisdom. I never trust conventional wisdom.


Do you think a team without at least an average passing game would beat the Pack? I posted yesterday that I really want to embrace the smash mouth, in your face mentality, hence I'd like a Bush, Hillis or Polk type guy to pair with McGahee and Tebow, but at the same time we have to be better on third down which many times hinges on an effective passing game.

[slim]

Last Sunday was absolutely a great step in the right direction.

Ben Roethlisberger is the type of player I think Tebow needs to become.

Roethlisberger is a good example. Ben was protected when he was a young QB...almost as much as Tim is being protected now.

Just based on the improvement he has shown since the Mia game, I don't see how anyone can doubt that Tim will get there eventually. It will take some time, but I have no doubt he can get there.

[vandammage13]

I would actually argue that Roethlisberger has become one of the best passers in the game.

And I think Eli is severely underrated.

I agree...Roethlisberger's ability to affect a game without having to throw the ball 40 times is what puts him in elite company...I really don't think TT is that far off from this.

As for Eli, the year this guy is having is pretty remarkable. If his brother wasn't named Peyton, I think people would view him differently rather than constantly wanting him to measure up to his brother. Eli is right up there just behind Brees, Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers.

[Dreadnought]

Do you think a team without at least an average passing game would beat the Pack? I posted yesterday that I really want to embrace the smash mouth, in your face mentality, hence I'd like a Bush, Hillis or Polk type guy to pair with McGahee and Tebow, but at the same time we have to be better on third down which many times hinges on an effective passing game.

Define "Average". I want the number of passing attempts to be well below average, especially versus a team like GB. I don't want to see dink n' dunk passing trying to replicate a running game, and I don't want us treating a 3rd and 2 or 3 as a passing situation, with 4 WR sets, etc. I do want a deadly passing attack, nailing 15-20+ yard strikes out of effective play action,because I actually think that's how a running team wins ball games. Hell, that's really in large part how we did it in 97-98.

I also would argue that its not coincidental than Peyton Manning has only the one ring, and the Pats haven't won the Big'n since '04...and they ran a more balanced offense back then. Tom Brady IMO has really only became an elite passer after their Superbowl wins, or perhaps starting in '04. Those teams won with scrappy defense as much as anything

[Mike]

Do you think a team without at least an average passing game would beat the Pack? I posted yesterday that I really want to embrace the smash mouth, in your face mentality, hence I'd like a Bush, Hillis or Polk type guy to pair with McGahee and Tebow, but at the same time we have to be better on third down which many times hinges on an effective passing game.

I think 3rd down efficiency, and the offensive production as a whole, will come along with more time and better players.

The fact that Denver can do what it is doing with what they have speaks highly of the coaching, IMO. Can we beat GB with the current team? No. Talent for talent we fall far short of the elite teams. Bring in better talent and I would like to see what the coaches do with them.

[catfish]

I think 3rd down efficiency, and the offensive production as a whole, will come along with more time and better players.

The fact that Denver can do what it is doing with what they have speaks highly of the coaching, IMO. Can we beat GB with the current team? No. Talent for talent we fall far short of the elite teams. Bring in better talent and I would like to see what the coaches do with them.

Billick was on Mike and Mike today saying if he was in charge in Denver he would use all his early round draft picks on defense, and pick up players used to the option as there will be high quality spread option players available later in the draft as other teams aren't interested in them

[Tned]

I don't see any reason to completely eliminate the read-option and QB draws, as long as they remain just part of an arsenal of offensive weapons, not the main base offense. Anytime you can make opponents fret, worry, and plan for something they are unfamiliar with that is a win for you. The Chargers mounted no effective pass rush versus Tebow because they were so freaked out over containing his running that they failed to pressure him at all.

We're already mostly there; the option was only run a few times v. the Vikings.

Another "I should have added" on my part. I'm a HUGE fan of the QB draw on the goal line, but especially when it's setup by the QB normally getting his yardage on the edge, which means the defense has to play to contain the QB from getting out of the pocket.

I just think it needs to be more of a traditional QB draw. Take a shotgun snap, pump fake and then dart up the middle. The exception, not the rule. Instead, they often run things more equivalent to fullback dives with Tebow, rarely gaining many yards and putting him at risk.

[Shazam!]

Tebow will be fine people.

...and I have 10x more faith in the Broncos' leadership now than just a year ago.

[Dzone]

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/malibubluff/vonn.jpg