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View Full Version : What would it take to trade up to take Luck?



Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:04 AM
Just curious to see what people think about what it would take to trade up for the often discussed Andrew Luck. Do you think it would even be possible to trade up for him? If so, what would it take?

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 11:06 AM
Well, hard to say since I don't know where we will end up in the draft. The only way that 1st pick trades that away, is if they already have their FQB on the roster. Even then, with the new rookie cap, they should take him anyway.

Will be a hard thing to do. The rich usually get richer, and we aren't rich.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:08 AM
Well, hard to say since I don't know where we will end up in the draft. The only way that 1st pick trades that away, is if they already have their FQB on the roster. Even then, with the new rookie cap, they should take him anyway.

Will be a hard thing to do. The rich usually get richer, and we aren't rich.

If the first pick holder already has a QB or is invested in a QB (eg Carolina), the bidding war is going to be tremendous. It will be so substantial that whoever holds the #1 pick, will most assuredly be trading it.

Northman
08-23-2011, 11:08 AM
Well, i said this in another thread if Luck is so coveted i dont see a team who has the #1 pick giving it away. Most times than not the team with the #1 pick is looking for a quarterback.

Secondly, because of the so-called value of Andrew Luck it would probably be a hefty price. One that Denver really doesnt have to offer. Furthermore, i saw a team years ago make a trade for Hershal Walker and gave up the farm for him. Needless to say it backfired immensely. Right now i see Denver as a 5 win team which pretty much takes us out of the Luck sweepstakes.

If Denver is going to draft any QB it will most likely be a guy like Barkley or someone else.

Buff
08-23-2011, 11:10 AM
Remember this time last year it was a foregone conclusion that Jake Locker would go #1. Granted, from all reports Luck is a much better prospect, but still... Let's make sure the kid doesn't shit the bed or tear his ACL before we start speculating about a trade 9 months from now.

Also, it might be tough to trade from the #32 pick to #1, especially with Kyle Orton coming off of a Super Bowl MVP.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 11:10 AM
I don't think we will be in a position to draft or trade up for luck. I think we will be picking somewhere in the low to mid teens myself, and that would take way too much ammo to go up to #1. I honestly think Bronco fans should just stop this pipedream of getting Luck because it's not going to happen.

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 11:13 AM
Just curious to see what people think about what it would take to trade up for the often discussed Andrew Luck. Do you think it would even be possible to trade up for him? If so, what would it take?

We have to have a record before we can even take that up as thought. However, assuming that Luck has another solid year unless we hold the number one overall pick it's doubtful we could move up and get him.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 11:13 AM
Well, i said this in another thread if Luck is so coveted i dont see a team who has the #1 pick giving it away. Most times than not the team with the #1 pick is looking for a quarterback.

Secondly, because of the so-called value of Andrew Luck it would probably be a hefty price. One that Denver really doesnt have to offer. Furthermore, i saw a team years ago make a trade for Hershal Walker and gave up the farm for him. Needless to say it backfired immensely. Right now i see Denver as a 5 win team which pretty much takes us out of the Luck sweepstakes.

If Denver is going to draft any QB it will most likely be a guy like Barkley or someone else.

To be fair,trading the farm for a RB and trading the farm for a QB is completely different. No running back is going to carry a franchise to super bowls, but if you hit on the QB he can do just that.

I'm not saying we should trade the farm for Luck, but you can't even compare that to trading for a RB. I doubt Denver regrets trading for the #1 pick to get some guy named John Elway. (granted they didn't trade the farm, but my point stands)

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:14 AM
Well, i said this in another thread if Luck is so coveted i dont see a team who has the #1 pick giving it away. Most times than not the team with the #1 pick is looking for a quarterback.


Secondly, because of the so-called value of Andrew Luck it would probably be a hefty price. One that Denver really doesnt have to offer. Furthermore, i saw a team years ago make a trade for Hershal Walker and gave up the farm for him. Needless to say it backfired immensely. Right now i see Denver as a 5 win team which pretty much takes us out of the Luck sweepstakes.

If Denver is going to draft any QB it will most likely be a guy like Barkley or someone else.

There are conceivable scenarios where a team with a QB can get the pick. The first example is Carolina. They have a lot of payroll tied up in Newton and have an uphill climb because they have two very green QBs. Its conceivable that Carolina could be in a position where they'll have it and cant justify keeping it.

The other scenario is if a team that already has a good QB gets hurt. The Colts look awful whenever Manning is injured. If it were the Colts they might take Luck because Manning is getting older and they would be set up for the future by taking Luck. But then there are teams like the Packers and Falcons where they have Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers. If the Packers or Falcons lose their QB and end up with the pick, they could easily trade it. The bidding war is tremendous.

The rules changes have created a perception where having a QB is paramount. There's some truth to this. So, it's not exactly like the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades.

Buff
08-23-2011, 11:15 AM
There are conceivable scenarios where a team with a QB can get the pick. The first example is Carolina. They have a lot of payroll tied up in Newton and have an uphill climb because they have two very green QBs. Its conceivable that Carolina could be in a position where they'll have it and cant justify keeping it.

The other scenario is if a team that already has a good QB gets hurt. The Colts look awful whenever Manning is injured. If it were the Colts they might take Luck because Manning is getting older and they would be set up for the future by taking Luck. But then there are teams like the Packers and Falcons where they have Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers. If the Packers or Falcons lose their QB and end up with the pick, they could easily trade it.

The rookie wage scale nullifies the scenario in your first paragraph. The #1 pick will have a lot more value in the future - not less.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:17 AM
To be fair,trading the farm for a RB and trading the farm for a QB is completely different. No running back is going to carry a franchise to super bowls, but if you hit on the QB he can do just that.

I'm not saying we should trade the farm for Luck, but you can't even compare that to trading for a RB. I doubt Denver regrets trading for the #1 pick to get some guy named John Elway. (granted they didn't trade the farm, but my point stands)

Yeah, the Broncos gave up amazingly little to get Elway. Could you imagine a getting a prospect like Elway today for Hinton and other stuff today?

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 11:17 AM
If the first pick holder already has a QB or is invested in a QB (eg Carolina), the bidding war is going to be tremendous. It will be so substantial that whoever holds the #1 pick, will most assuredly be trading it.

Ok but what are the chances of them having back to back years where they hold number one overall pick in the draft. The odds of that happening would astronomical. That said, as Ravage pointed out with a rookie salary cap in place they could still go ahead and draft him.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:18 AM
The rookie wage scale nullifies the scenario in your first paragraph. The #1 pick will have a lot more value in the future - not less.

I wasnt even addressing that. I don't know what you're talking about.

chazoe60
08-23-2011, 11:18 AM
If Carolina or Cincy end up with the #1 pick and we end up with a top 7 pick then I predict we will draft Andrew Luck. I think Elway would give up most of the next draft as well as our 1st from 2013 to move up and grab him.

If a team like SF or Biff end up with the #1 then they will probably not even consider a trade and will in fact agree to contract terms well before the draft.

If we end up with The first pick (it's possible, not to be a downer but we did pick second last year and have a brutal schedule) it's a no brainer.

If I was making odds I'd say the odds of Luck being a Bronco is about 15%. Beyter than most teams chances, not quite as good as SF or Buff.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Man, if I'm the team with the #1 pick though and I already have a good QB I am just shitting myself with glee. The bidding war for that pick could get out of hand.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Ok but what are the chances of them having back to back years where they hold number one overall pick in the draft. The odds of that happening would astronomical. That said, as Ravage pointed out with a rookie salary cap in place they could still go ahead and draft him.

I actually think the wage scale will create more competition in teams bidding for that position. And Cam Newtons contract is under the old CBA, no?

BigDaddyBronco
08-23-2011, 11:20 AM
Our best bet would be if Luck has a shoulder injury this season and it scares teams off.

SOCALORADO.
08-23-2011, 11:21 AM
Depends on who has the No#1 pick. What if CAR is there again? Man, the auction they will have for that No.1 spot will be epic.
Luck is the best QB prospect to come out since Peyton. Hes as "slamdunk" as they get.
He has no downside.

I could see 2 1sts, 2 2nds and a 3rd spread out over 2 drafts for Luck. A kings ransom.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:21 AM
Man, if I'm the team with the #1 pick though and I already have a good QB I am just shitting myself with glee. The bidding war for that pick could get out of hand.

Thats what Im saying. Its unlikely. Northman is correct in stating that teams with the #1 pick usually need a QB. But that's not always the case.

If that happens, the trade value could put the Walker and Williams trades to shame.

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 11:21 AM
There are conceivable scenarios where a team with a QB can get the pick. The first example is Carolina. They have a lot of payroll tied up in Newton and have an uphill climb because they have two very green QBs. Its conceivable that Carolina could be in a position where they'll have it and cant justify keeping it.

The other scenario is if a team that already has a good QB gets hurt. The Colts look awful whenever Manning is injured. If it were the Colts they might take Luck because Manning is getting older and they would be set up for the future by taking Luck. But then there are teams like the Packers and Falcons where they have Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers. If the Packers or Falcons lose their QB and end up with the pick, they could easily trade it. The bidding war is tremendous.

The rules changes have created a perception where having a QB is paramount. There's some truth to this. So, it's not exactly like the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades.

Carolina doesn't have nearly the payroll invested in Newton that St. Louis has invested in Bradford.

silkamilkamonico
08-23-2011, 11:21 AM
I'd rather take Jones if he is there instead of trading up. If they are both gone I think it would take a kings ransom to trade up for Luck, especially with the new rookie wages making a much easier impact on a team's budget.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 11:21 AM
If Carolina or Cincy end up with the #1 pick and we end up with a top 7 pick then I predict we will draft Andrew Luck. I think Elway would give up most of the next draft as well as our 1st from 2013 to move up and grab him.

If a team like SF or Biff end up with the #1 then they will probably not even consider a trade and will in fact agree to contract terms well before the draft.

If we end up with The first pick (it's possible, not to be a downer but we did pick second last year and have a brutal schedule) it's a no brainer.

If I was making odds I'd say the odds of Luck being a Bronco is about 15%. Beyter than most teams chances, not quite as good as SF or Buff.

I have to disagree that we have a "brutal" schedule. Oak (x2), Cincy, Buff, Tenn, and Mia are all winnable games, and I'm sure we can get an upset or two. If we stay healthy, I don't see us winning fewer than 6 games.

silkamilkamonico
08-23-2011, 11:23 AM
I actually think the wage scale will create more competition in teams bidding for that position. And Cam Newtons contract is under the old CBA, no?

Much more....unike the last couple years when teams have literally wanted to dump that high pick because of the contract that comes with it, they are going to want to keep it or demand much more because they can.

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 11:23 AM
I actually think the wage scale will create more competition in teams bidding for that position. And Cam Newtons contract is under the old CBA, no?

No it's under the new CBA.

Buff
08-23-2011, 11:24 AM
There are conceivable scenarios where a team with a QB can get the pick. The first example is Carolina. They have a lot of payroll tied up in Newton and have an uphill climb because they have two very green QBs. Its conceivable that Carolina could be in a position where they'll have it and cant justify keeping it.

The other scenario is if a team that already has a good QB gets hurt. The Colts look awful whenever Manning is injured. If it were the Colts they might take Luck because Manning is getting older and they would be set up for the future by taking Luck. But then there are teams like the Packers and Falcons where they have Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers. If the Packers or Falcons lose their QB and end up with the pick, they could easily trade it. The bidding war is tremendous.

The rules changes have created a perception where having a QB is paramount. There's some truth to this. So, it's not exactly like the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades.


I wasnt even addressing that. I don't know what you're talking about.

Well, you mentioned that payroll would be a motivating factor to move out of the #1 pick. I'm just saying that they have significantly less payroll tied up in Newton than St. Louis has tied up in Bradford... So, salary isn't really a limitation. But you're right that they aren't going to take another QB first overall.

vandammage13
08-23-2011, 11:25 AM
With Orton as our starter, we'll be in a position where teams will be wanting to trade up with us...

So the question can be changed to "what will we be willing to take in exchange for Luck."

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:25 AM
Depends on who has the No#1 pick. What if CAR is there again? Man, the auction they will have for that No.1 spot will be epic.
Luck is the best QB prospect to come out since Peyton. Hes as "slamdunk" as they get.
He has no downside.

I could see 2 1sts, 2 2nds and a 3rd spread out over 2 drafts for Luck. A kings ransom.

I think it would be more than that.

chazoe60
08-23-2011, 11:25 AM
I have to disagree that we have a "brutal" schedule. Oak (x2), Cincy, Buff, Tenn, and Mia are all winnable games, and I'm sure we can get an upset or two. If we stay healthy, I don't see us winning fewer than 6 games.

Oak beat us 59-14 last year. Don't count on 6 wins this season. Looking at our schedule I think we'll win 5 games. Could be two games either way of that but I reall doubt it. Vegas agrees with me BTW, thwy have our over/under at 5.5.

SOCALORADO.
08-23-2011, 11:28 AM
There is 1 other aspect to this issue we have not considered.
This is the best QB draft class to come out in a long, long time.
Luck, Barkley, Landry, Lindley. All come from pro-style offenses. All can play any offense installed. All have cannons. All can make any NFL throw.
It is possible that the team with the No.1 spot might overplay their hand, and some teams might be content to just take a Barkley at #3 or a Lindley at #16 and be content, knowing they are getting a really solid, immediate, franchise QB.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 11:30 AM
Oak beat us 59-14 last year. Don't count on 6 wins this season. Looking at our schedule I think we'll win 5 games. Could be two games either way of that but I reall doubt it. Vegas agrees with me BTW, thwy have our over/under at 5.5.

Oakland also got raided (pardon the pun) of talent in free agency. I do not think they will be as good this season as last. I will be surprised if they sweep us again this year. I realize this team isn't good enough to chalk up wins, but Cincy and Buffalo are so bad I'm at least chalking those two up. Then out of Oak, Ten, and Mia I think we take at least 2 of those which puts us at 4, then we just have to upset 2 teams. I don't see that as unlikely at all. I honestly think we are considerably better than last season. Other than QB and WR, show me an area where we didn't improve our talent level in the offseason.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:30 AM
Well, you mentioned that payroll would be a motivating factor to move out of the #1 pick. I'm just saying that they have significantly less payroll tied up in Newton than St. Louis has tied up in Bradford... So, salary isn't really a limitation. But you're right that they aren't going to take another QB first overall.

What created the confusion is that I was under the impression Newtons contract was under the old system. Thats why I responed as though it didn't apply. If that's true, that changes the equation somewhat.

But even then, if Carolina loses a lot but Newton shows promise, Carolina will be in a position to think, imagine how much we can fix with all we'd be getting in trade.

BigDaddyBronco
08-23-2011, 11:31 AM
Oak beat us 59-14 last year. Don't count on 6 wins this season. Looking at our schedule I think we'll win 5 games. Could be two games either way of that but I reall doubt it. Vegas agrees with me BTW, thwy have our over/under at 5.5.

I think a 3-13 season will get the #1 pick.

Carolina?
Seattle?
Oakland?
Buffalo?
Cincinnati?

Us?

Who is going to suck that bad this year?

underrated29
08-23-2011, 11:31 AM
Remember this time last year it was a foregone conclusion that Jake Locker would go #1. Granted, from all reports Luck is a much better prospect, but still... Let's make sure the kid doesn't shit the bed or tear his ACL before we start speculating about a trade 9 months from now.

Also, it might be tough to trade from the #32 pick to #1, especially with Kyle Orton coming off of a Super Bowl MVP.





Exactly! I refuse to watch any tape of luck now- because I dont want it to be used like william moore was a couple years ago. Super solid JR season, horrible SR season, etc.


I have a very sneaky suspicion that he will not be as godly as the hype is. I also have a sneaky suspicion that the BILLS will do whatever it takes to get him. (they might even end up with the #1 overall anyway)



I personally do not see us even close to a top QB in the draft. I think we go 9 or better wins. I also do not think we will take a QB in the first round. Everyone is somehow under the perception that if we do not have a Superstar QB on our roster right now, we ABSOLUTELY 100% MUST TAKE A QB WITH OUR FIRST ROUND PICK NEXT YEAR OR WE WILL SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST!!!!!!!


I find it a dumb idea personally. I see DT as still the IMMENSELY larger need. I see THREE qbs on our roster who are just fine, and unless they plan to start tackling the opposing teams RB- I think we can hold off until tebow does or does not develop and for once in about 12 years fix the damn Defesive Line! But thats just me.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:31 AM
There is 1 other aspect to this issue we have not considered.
This is the best QB draft class to come out in a long, long time. Luck, Barkley, Landry, Lindley. All come from pro-style offenses. All can play any offense installed. All have cannons. All can make any NFL throw.
It is possible that the team with the No.1 spot might overplay their hand, and some teams might be content to just take a Barkley at #3 or a Lindley at #16 and be content, knowing they are getting a really solid, immediate, franchise QB.

Why is that? I agree with you about Luck being the best QB prospect than Manning...and even that might be limiting him. The other guys, I'm not so sure arent being overhyped. Im far less certain about them.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 11:33 AM
I think a 3-13 season will get the #1 pick.

Carolina?
Seattle?
Oakland?
Buffalo?
Cincinnati?

Us?

Who is going to suck that bad this year?

You could add SF to that list as well. I realize it's just preseason, but I was on the field in their game against the Saints and they just looked hapless.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:34 AM
I think a 3-13 season will get the #1 pick.

Carolina?
Seattle?
Oakland?
Buffalo?
Cincinnati?

Us?

Who is going to suck that bad this year?

Miami could also be that bad.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 11:42 AM
Oakland also got raided (pardon the pun) of talent in free agency. I do not think they will be as good this season as last. I will be surprised if they sweep us again this year. I realize this team isn't good enough to chalk up wins, but Cincy and Buffalo are so bad I'm at least chalking those two up. Then out of Oak, Ten, and Mia I think we take at least 2 of those which puts us at 4, then we just have to upset 2 teams. I don't see that as unlikely at all. I honestly think we are considerably better than last season. Other than QB and WR, show me an area where we didn't improve our talent level in the offseason.

And just to add to this, I do not think we were 4-12 bad last season. We were only blown out of 4 games. In 8 of our losses we still had a chance to win in the 4th quarter. If a couple of breaks go our way in those games we could have easily won 6 or 7. I just think people expecting us to compete for the #1 pick are grossly underestimating this team.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:46 AM
And just to add to this, I do not think we were 4-12 bad last season. We were only blown out of 4 games. In 8 of our losses we still had a chance to win in the 4th quarter. If a couple of breaks go our way in those games we could have easily won 6 or 7. I just think people expecting us to compete for the #1 pick are grossly underestimating this team.

We're still stuck with Orton.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 11:51 AM
We're still stuck with Orton.

But we've upgraded pretty much everywhere else. The o-line is better than last season, Moreno looks better, McGahee improves the running game, we added some solid TEs, Bunkely and Dumervil make our d-line way better, Miller makes our LB corps better, and Moore improves our secondary.

It's not like Orton is some dumpster trash QB. He's not great but he's at least average. He's good enough to take a team with the talent we have somewhere around the .500 mark IMO.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 11:55 AM
But we've upgraded pretty much everywhere else. The o-line is better than last season, Moreno looks better, McGahee improves the running game, we added some solid TEs, Bunkely and Dumervil make our d-line way better, Miller makes our LB corps better, and Moore improves our secondary.

It's not like Orton is some dumpster trash QB. He's not great but he's at least average. He's good enough to take a team with the talent we have somewhere around the .500 mark IMO.

OK, but you were talking about different outcomes given a similar scenario to last year (at least thats my impression). My thing is, if you're relying on Orton to pull it out at the end, you get what you get.

If we're that much better in other ways, we should have more comfortable wins. But thats a different premise than what I thought you were addressing. BTW, I don't necessarily disagree that we could be a lot better for reasons you've mentioned. But, as I referred to, if it's a similar scenario to last year and you're relying on Orton to be the difference between winning 4 and 6 games, you're still not in the best shape.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 12:00 PM
OK, but you were talking about different outcomes given a similar scenario to last year (at least thats my impression). My thing is, if you're relying on Orton to pull it out at the end, you get what you get.

If we're that much better in other ways, we should have more comfortable wins. But thats a different premise than what I thought you were addressing. BTW, I don't necessarily disagree that we could be a lot better for reasons you've mentioned. But, as I referred to, if it's a similar scenario to last year and you're relying on Orton to be the difference between winning 4 and 6 games, you're still not in the best shape.

FWIW, at least one of those losses (NYJ, with the PI call) wasn't Orton's fault. So if that break goes our way that puts us at 5 without needing Orton.

And yes, my point was that given our talent boost, I think a few of those 4th quarter tossups will become games that we can win without needing a 4th quarter comeback, hence my prediction that we will finish in the neighborhood of .500.

rationalfan
08-23-2011, 12:03 PM
what would it take to end these Luck threads?

damn, this season hasn't even started yet and we're trying to trade up in next year's draft? can we live in the now, or at least the very near future?

Tned
08-23-2011, 12:04 PM
Just curious to see what people think about what it would take to trade up for the often discussed Andrew Luck. Do you think it would even be possible to trade up for him? If so, what would it take?

With the new rookie cap (for lack of a better word), where Luck will probably only get $25 mil or so over 5 years, I would expect it to take a King's ransom to move up.

Northman
08-23-2011, 12:05 PM
If Carolina or Cincy end up with the #1 pick and we end up with a top 7 pick then I predict we will draft Andrew Luck. I think Elway would give up most of the next draft as well as our 1st from 2013 to move up and grab him.



The bad part is if your senario plays out and Luck bombs we are crap out of luck (no pun intended) for the next 3 years after that.

Northman
08-23-2011, 12:07 PM
Man, if I'm the team with the #1 pick though and I already have a good QB I am just shitting myself with glee. The bidding war for that pick could get out of hand.

I heard a lot of people say that last year as well. I wouldnt count on it. Although im sure there will be interest for whoever has it getting it is a whole different story. And with next year's draft being QB friendly i dont see a lot of teams giving up the farm to move up.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 12:07 PM
FWIW, at least one of those losses (NYJ, with the PI call) wasn't Orton's fault. So if that break goes our way that puts us at 5 without needing Orton.

And yes, my point was that given our talent boost, I think a few of those 4th quarter tossups will become games that we can win without needing a 4th quarter comeback, hence my prediction that we will finish in the neighborhood of .500.

But the Tennessee win is one that went our way in a similar fashion. Orton threw it up for grabs and lucked out on a PI. That's how we won the Tennessee game at the end. The Tennessee game and Jets games cancel each other out.

I think if the talent is upgraded the way we hope, we should have more wins that don't come down to relying on Orton.

I think our team improvement relies on running the football and getting pressure on the QBs (ie more turnovers and getting off the field on 3rd downs). We may have the same number of games that come down to the end but we should also win more of the games that dont...if the team is improved like we hope.

SOCALORADO.
08-23-2011, 12:09 PM
Why is that? I agree with you about Luck being the best QB prospect than Manning...and even that might be limiting him. The other guys, I'm not so sure arent being overhyped. Im far less certain about them.

Be less certain. The rest of us are not.

Northman
08-23-2011, 12:10 PM
Want to know an even scarier senario? What if Denver wins 8 or more games? Oooooh, the possibilities are endless!!!

vandammage13
08-23-2011, 12:11 PM
Miami could also be that bad.

I highly doubt it...Miami is very solid on defense and at most positions other than QB.

They are good enough all the way around to be a 7-9 to 9-7 team no matter who their QB is.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 12:12 PM
I heard a lot of people say that last year as well. I wouldnt count on it. Although im sure there will be interest for whoever has it getting it is a whole different story. And with next year's draft being QB friendly i dont see a lot of teams giving up the farm to move up.

I disagree. If Luck is really the best QB prospect since Manning, teams will give up a lot to get him. Imagine if you could apply the same reasoning to the 98 draft and retro-actively draft. Even though there might have been nice QB prospects that came later who were good, there was also Ryan Leaf, and none of the other QBs come close to Manning. I think that reasoning would be applied to Luck.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 12:13 PM
But the Tennessee win is one that went our way in a similar fashion. Orton threw it up for grabs and lucked out on a PI. That's how we won the Tennessee game at the end. The Tennessee game and Jets games cancel each other out.

I think if the talent is upgraded the way we hope, we should have more wins that don't come down to relying on Orton.

I think our team improvement relies on running the football and getting pressure on the QBs (ie more turnovers and getting off the field on 3rd downs). We may have the same number of games that come down to the end but we should also win more of the games that dont...if the team is improved like we hope.

FWIW, I'm also not in the camp of people who believe that it's completely impossible for Orton to win a game in the 4th quarter. While yes, he is very bad at it, he should have a better running game and blocking to help him out, which will make it easier for him to perform in the dreaded red zone and 4th quarter.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 12:14 PM
Be less certain. The rest of us are not.

And you wouldnt simply be overhyping them because college football is almost here and you're starting to hear buzz around some of these other guys?

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 12:16 PM
FWIW, I'm also not in the camp of people who believe that it's completely impossible for Orton to win a game in the 4th quarter. While yes, he is very bad at it, he should have a better running game and blocking to help him out, which will make it easier for him to perform in the dreaded red zone and 4th quarter.

Maybe. But you do know that even in Chicago he had running game but still struggled in the red zone.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 12:17 PM
I highly doubt it...Miami is very solid on defense and at most positions other than QB.

They are good enough all the way around to be a 7-9 to 9-7 team no matter who their QB is.

You might be right. But relying on defense could simply mean they lose a lot of low scoring close games. But it's also worth pointing out how toxic things might be in Miami with what's going on with Sparano. Remember, the owner was talking to Harbaugh and now there's talk that Sparano is under pressure to be less conservative. So you have a possibly toxic scenario where Sparano is on his way out. And also, if the ownership is really wanting a more aggressive offense, they might actually also want to tank games to get Luck.

Chidoze
08-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Just curious to see what people think about what it would take to trade up for the often discussed Andrew Luck. Do you think it would even be possible to trade up for him? If so, what would it take?
If this season is anything like last season, the Broncos may not need to trade up to select Luck. They can pick him 1st or 2nd overall.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Maybe. But you do know that even in Chicago he had running game but still struggled in the red zone.

So many other factors are different though. We have a different coach, different players, and a different system than Orton's Bears teams. He was also much more inexperienced with the Bears than he is now. I don't think you can really compare the two situations.

BroncoWave
08-23-2011, 12:20 PM
If this season is anything like last season, the Broncos may not need to trade up to select Luck. They can pick him 1st or 2nd overall.

This season isn't going to be like last season. We have better coaching and more talent than last year's team.

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 12:25 PM
So many other factors are different though. We have a different coach, different players, and a different system than Orton's Bears teams. He was also much more inexperienced with the Bears than he is now. I don't think you can really compare the two situations.

The system he had Chicago has little to do with playing not make mistakes. That's has been his mentality throughout his pro career.

vandammage13
08-23-2011, 12:29 PM
You might be right. But relying on defense could simply mean they lose a lot of low scoring close games. But it's also worth pointing out how toxic things might be in Miami with what's going on with Sparano. Remember, the owner was talking to Harbaugh and now there's talk that Sparano is under pressure to be less conservative. So you have a possibly toxic scenario where Sparano is on his way out. And also, if the ownership is really wanting a more aggressive offense, they might actually also want to tank games to get Luck.

Good point...I didn't really consider their coaching situation debacle this spring.

A lot of teams don't respond well to a lame duck coach. I'll bet the first few games of their season will determine if they will be bottom dwellers or not.

Win the first couple of games and the players might buy into Sparano for one more year, but lose the first couple and it is tough for a coach in a contract year to keep the locker room.

BroncoStud
08-23-2011, 12:35 PM
Whatever it takes to get Luck, pay it. RB speed, elite arm, elite accuracy, elite awareness, pro-style offense. He is the most no-brainer decision since John Elway, and I think Elway knows this.

Is he worth every pick in our next draft class?

Yep, a 15 year franchise QB is worth 2 or 3 potential contributors.

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 12:39 PM
Whatever it takes to get Luck, pay it. RB speed, elite arm, elite accuracy, elite awareness, pro-style offense. He is the most no-brainer decision since John Elway, and I think Elway knows this.

Is he worth every pick in our next draft class?

Yep, a 15 year franchise QB is worth 2 or 3 potential contributors.

I totally disagree. No player not even Luck is worth an entire draft.

FWIW if a rumor about Dan Marino having a drug problem hadn't been floated he could have very easily went number one overall.

BroncoStud
08-23-2011, 12:42 PM
I totally disagree. No player not even Luck is worth an entire draft.

FWIW if a rumor about Dan Marino having a drug problem hadn't been floated he could have very easily went number one overall.

A franchise QB is worth almost anything. Go ask any of the Indy fans if they had their option that year, Peyton Manning or drafting say #10 overall and getting another QB and some other players which they would choose. I bet 99% of them would gladly give up every pick in that draft to keep Manning, same with the Patriots, same with the Packers, same with the Steelers, same with 49ers and Joe Montana, same with the Dolphins and Dan Marino, etc, etc...

Elite QB play is invaluable and obtaining it is utterly difficult to do.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 12:44 PM
I totally disagree. No player not even Luck is worth an entire draft.

FWIW if a rumor about Dan Marino having a drug problem hadn't been floated he could have very easily went number one overall.

That wasnt going to happen. At the time, Elway was considered to be the ultimate QB prospect. Actually, Elway still is the ultimate QB prospect as he's often referred to for a variety of reasons.

DenBronx
08-23-2011, 12:45 PM
Double whatever Atl gave up to get Julio Jones.

Basically we would have to move Orton or Tebow this year.

SOCALORADO.
08-23-2011, 12:48 PM
And you wouldnt simply be overhyping them because college football is almost here and you're starting to hear buzz around some of these other guys?

Cmon AO, weve been talking about these players since some of them were starters as freshmen!
The top 4 are all highly thought of as franchise QBs.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 12:53 PM
Cmon AO, weve been talking about these players since some of them were starters as freshmen!
The top 4 are all highly thought of as franchise QBs.

Hence the word over-hyped.

When you have someone like Luck in the draft, it's him and then everyone else. Like you said elsewhere, if we're going to draft a QB, I'd give up anything to get Luck. Im not sure that would be enough but it would actually be worth giving up the majority of two drafts to get him.

SOCALORADO.
08-23-2011, 12:56 PM
Hence the word over-hyped.

When you have someone like Luck in the draft, it's him and then everyone else. Like you said elsewhere, if we're going to draft a QB, I'd give up anything to get Luck. Im not sure that would be enough but it would actually be worth giving up the majority of two drafts to get him.

I agree. However, some teams might not share your ideology or they might not be able to afford it. So, at least there is a strong draft class for them to fall back on. BUF is a notoriously cheap team. Just sayin, it might bring down Lucks value just a little.
Or at least thin out the herd of teams interested in Luck.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 12:58 PM
If the first pick holder already has a QB or is invested in a QB (eg Carolina), the bidding war is going to be tremendous. It will be so substantial that whoever holds the #1 pick, will most assuredly be trading it.

If Carolina is the #1 overall pick agian, they take Luck without batting an eye. They are NOT invested in Cam.... and after watching him throw..... they really aren't invested in him. Obviously you would hate to take a QB #1 overall 2 years in a row, but last year they couldn't "count" on having the first pick again. But if they are, they take Luck and bite the bullet on the fig (Newton).

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 01:00 PM
I agree. However, some teams might not share your ideology or they might not be able to afford it. So, at least there is a strong draft class for them to fall back on. BUF is a notoriously cheap team. Just sayin, it might bring down Lucks value just a little.
Or at least thin out the herd of teams interested in Luck.

If Denver going to draft a QB, I'd give up every draft pick for the next two years...or not even bother. I think people see him as the next Peyton Manning and that will serve as the vantage point that determines his trade value. If you're compared to Manning, it's almost impossible to conceive how his trade value could be diluted in anyway.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 01:02 PM
A franchise QB is worth almost anything. Go ask any of the Indy fans if they had their option that year, Peyton Manning or drafting say #10 overall and getting another QB and some other players which they would choose. I bet 99% of them would gladly give up every pick in that draft to keep Manning, same with the Patriots, same with the Packers, same with the Steelers, same with 49ers and Joe Montana, same with the Dolphins and Dan Marino, etc, etc...

Elite QB play is invaluable and obtaining it is utterly difficult to do.

I would.

I would absolutely trade everything for a QB that has the highest rating SINCE Elway. Without hesitation.

Now obviously EVERY player comes with risk,a nd EVERY player can be injured. You put yourself out there to have a bad draft simply by a knee being torn. But...if not, you made a move that absolutely MAKES your franchise. Ask any of the teams that have one of the top 6 QBs and see if they would draft over and NOT take that player for ANY cost.

There is NO player that makes a team THAT much better other than the QB. He's the absolute key factor to having a winning team year in, and year out.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 01:03 PM
If Carolina is the #1 overall pick agian, they take Luck without batting an eye. They are NOT invested in Cam.... and after watching him throw..... they really aren't invested in him. Obviously you would hate to take a QB #1 overall 2 years in a row, but last year they couldn't "count" on having the first pick again. But if they are, they take Luck and bite the bullet on the fig (Newton).

Like I said, it depends on how Newton plays. Lets say the Panthers start out 0-12 but win their last 4 games and Newton shows a lot of promise. In that scenario, I can see them trading out of the pick.

Andrew Luck is the more conventinal QB. Cam Newton is kind of the newer breed of QB and if the Panthers get a handle on maximize the effectiveness of this kind of QB, it could play out where Newton is seen in a comparable way.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 01:04 PM
FWIW if a rumor about Dan Marino having a drug problem hadn't been floated he could have very easily went number one overall.

No. Elway STILL has the highest rating of any PLAYER to come out of college. Elway was far and away the best player, and far and away the #1 overall pick. Maybe he would have been the "1st" pick of the rest of them.

DenBronx
08-23-2011, 01:05 PM
Doesnt matter because we will extend Ortons contract. :tsk:

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 01:06 PM
Like I said, it depends on how Newton plays. Lets say the Panthers start out 0-12 but win their last 4 games and Newton shows a lot of promise. In that scenario, I can see them trading out of the pick.

Andrew Luck is the more conventinal QB. Cam Newton is kind of the newer breed of QB and if the Panthers get a handle on maximize the effectiveness of this kind of QB, it could play out where Newton is seen in a comparable way.

I still will disagree with you there. THe "new breed" isn't new, and no "running" QB has won the Super Bowl. They don't wait and "hope" that Newton becomes a passer when they have Luck by simply saying his name. No way, no how. If Newton shows promise, then they might be able to get more from him when they trade him away...but they won't pass on Luck for Cam.

BigDaddyBronco
08-23-2011, 01:08 PM
I can't wait until Luck is a flop this year. :D

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 01:10 PM
I still will disagree with you there. THe "new breed" isn't new, and no "running" QB has won the Super Bowl. They don't wait and "hope" that Newton becomes a passer when they have Luck by simply saying his name. No way, no how. If Newton shows promise, then they might be able to get more from him when they trade him away...but they won't pass on Luck for Cam.

Yeah, I think there are also demographic factors in play that have an economic impact on the franchise that you're not considering.

Nomad
08-23-2011, 01:10 PM
Since we're talkin hypotheticals......what if Luck doesn't want to go to the team that picked him and only had certain teams he wanted to go to? He comes out saying the top $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ doesn't matter.

How would he have to go about doing that?

SOCALORADO.
08-23-2011, 01:16 PM
So were all in agreement. Get Luck at all cost!
Got it.


http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/andrew-luck.jpg

chazoe60
08-23-2011, 01:16 PM
I totally disagree. No player not even Luck is worth an entire draft.

FWIW if a rumor about Dan Marino having a drug problem hadn't been floated he could have very easily went number one overall.

I'm pretty sure Luck is a crackhead. ;)

underrated29
08-23-2011, 01:22 PM
I'm pretty sure Luck is a crackhead. ;)



Its true.

They say he was lighting it up. But I hear he is Lighting up Doobies in a van down by the river!

SOCALORADO.
08-23-2011, 01:24 PM
Its true.

They say he was lighting it up. But I hear he is Lighting up Doobies in a van down by the river!

No river. But there is a park that many of them like to go to!
Shoot, the entire city is pretty much one giant joint!

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 01:26 PM
A franchise QB is worth almost anything. Go ask any of the Indy fans if they had their option that year, Peyton Manning or drafting say #10 overall and getting another QB and some other players which they would choose. I bet 99% of them would gladly give up every pick in that draft to keep Manning, same with the Patriots, same with the Packers, same with the Steelers, same with 49ers and Joe Montana, same with the Dolphins and Dan Marino, etc, etc...

Elite QB play is invaluable and obtaining it is utterly difficult to do.

The Packers, the Steelers, and the Colts didn't mortgage the future to get their franchise quarterbacks. For that matter neither did the Patriots or the 49ers. I don't deny the importance of a franchise quarterback but if you give an entire draft for one player even a quarterback you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

slim
08-23-2011, 01:27 PM
You guys are dreaming. It's pretty hard to trade up 31 spots.

BORDERLINE
08-23-2011, 02:04 PM
Look at what the Falcons did to trade for a WR. They gave up a whole mess of picks. if you really start to think about the 6+ 1st,2nd round picks McDouche threw away. All those picks could go to the team holding Luck's draft card. If we where to trade two #1 and a second, third and a late round pick i wouldn't be trippin. Let EFX get the man they want because once they are married to a QB they will have to perform unlike the whole Tebow and Orton mess where they can easily throw up there hands and say those are guys.

vandammage13
08-23-2011, 02:11 PM
I like Luck and think he's going to be a good QB, but he's going to have to become Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to live up to his lofty expectations, and I don't think the odds of that coming to fruition are very high...

BigDaddyBronco
08-23-2011, 02:14 PM
I like Luck and think he's going to be a good QB, but he's going to have to become Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to live up to his lofty expectations, and I don't think the odds of that coming to fruition are very high...

It's more likely he will be Eli Manning...

Northman
08-23-2011, 02:15 PM
I can't wait until Luck is a flop this year. :D

I have to admit, that would be funny as all get out. If there isnt obsessive people over Tebow, there is obsessive fans over Luck. Frankly, they all start to bore me.

Northman
08-23-2011, 02:16 PM
Look at what the Falcons did to trade for a WR. They gave up a whole mess of picks. if you really start to think about the 6+ 1st,2nd round picks McDouche threw away. All those picks could go to the team holding Luck's draft card. If we where to trade two #1 and a second, third and a late round pick i wouldn't be trippin. Let EFX get the man they want because once they are married to a QB they will have to perform unlike the whole Tebow and Orton mess where they can easily throw up there hands and say those are guys.

Of course, then again the Falcons are a lot closer to a championship than Denver right now. :lol:

Nomad
08-23-2011, 02:18 PM
I have to admit, that would be funny as all get out. If there isnt obsessive people over Tebow, there is obsessive fans over Luck. Frankly, they all start to bore me.

Starts Sept 3........ Luck against San Jose St!

Barkley playing the Mighty Gophers!

Lancane
08-23-2011, 02:20 PM
You guys are dreaming. It's pretty hard to trade up 31 spots.

Did we trade away our first round pick? :lol:

vandammage13
08-23-2011, 02:20 PM
It's more likely he will be Eli Manning...

Which isn't bad...I wouldn't give up the farm for it though.

Lancane
08-23-2011, 02:22 PM
The Packers, the Steelers, and the Colts didn't mortgage the future to get their franchise quarterbacks. For that matter neither did the Patriots or the 49ers. I don't deny the importance of a franchise quarterback but if you give an entire draft for one player even a quarterback you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Especially not when there are three other kids that might be just as capable, if we're within reaching distance and it doesn't cost us the farm then I am cool with it, otherwise just take the next kid on your list and move forward.

BORDERLINE
08-23-2011, 02:30 PM
Of course, then again the Falcons are a lot closer to a championship than Denver right now. :lol:

You bet, but what i'm trying to say is that we have thrown away a large amount of picks in the recent history. I say F' it and at least do it to get the top rated passer that EFX wants.

Jsteve01
08-23-2011, 02:32 PM
I have to admit, that would be funny as all get out. If there isnt obsessive people over Tebow, there is obsessive fans over Luck. Frankly, they all start to bore me.

Remember how Locker was a can't miss? Better than Bradshaw two years ago?

slim
08-23-2011, 02:39 PM
Did we trade away our first round pick? :lol:

This team is going to be bad ass.

:championship:

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 02:53 PM
Especially not when there are three other kids that might be just as capable, if we're within reaching distance and it doesn't cost us the farm then I am cool with it, otherwise just take the next kid on your list and move forward.

Just as capable? Are you still sticking with that Barkley is going to be Marino idea?

HORSEPOWER 56
08-23-2011, 03:01 PM
FWIW, at least one of those losses (NYJ, with the PI call) wasn't Orton's fault. So if that break goes our way that puts us at 5 without needing Orton.

And yes, my point was that given our talent boost, I think a few of those 4th quarter tossups will become games that we can win without needing a 4th quarter comeback, hence my prediction that we will finish in the neighborhood of .500.

But the fumbled snap and then inability to recover the ball (it was only 3rd down) was Orton. Any way you slice it, he had the opportunity to win 6 games in the 4th quarter on the final drive and only pulled it our once.

Lancane
08-23-2011, 03:13 PM
Just as capable? Are you still sticking with that Barkley is going to be Marino idea?

Did I ever say he's going to be Marino? I made a comparison to the class Agent not a comparison of player to player. Believe what you want, but I do believe he will be a pretty solid pro quarterback if he goes to the right team - after all any team can screw-up a quarterback with bad coaching, and I am usually right in that aspect more times then less, especially about the quarterback position.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 03:20 PM
Since we're talkin hypotheticals......what if Luck doesn't want to go to the team that picked him and only had certain teams he wanted to go to? He comes out saying the top $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ doesn't matter.

How would he have to go about doing that?

So. He's drafted either way, and belongs to the team that drafted him.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 03:25 PM
Did I ever say he's going to be Marino? I made a comparison to the class Agent not a comparison of player to player. Believe what you want, but I do believe he will be a pretty solid pro quarterback if he goes to the right team - after all any team can screw-up a quarterback with bad coaching, and I am usually right in that aspect more times then less, especially about the quarterback position.

Maybe we should trade for Matt Leinart since you seem to have such a hard on for USC QBs.

"Solid" for a first round pick isnt really good enough. Many people would use solid to describe Orton. I'm just too concerned we'd be getting Jimmy Clausen.

I'd actually prefer to go with Tebow. He's responeded well in every game situation to the speed of the game. People over emphasize the back to front when it comes to QBs. By that I mean, they look at how a guy throws in situations that dont indicate what he will do in a game at live NFL speed. Its like major league baseball. Some guys have inefficient loopy swings but in spite of that, the guys with the less efficient swings can sometimes hit 95 mph pitching better than the guys with the shorter, more compact teams. When people look at NFL QBs, too much time is focused on whether he has a loopy, inefficient swing and not enough time looking at how he responds to 95 mph pitching.

You could justify going all in for Luck. But to settle for one of the other guys. Meh.

red98
08-23-2011, 03:29 PM
You could add SF to that list as well. I realize it's just preseason, but I was on the field in their game against the Saints and they just looked hapless.

Add what you saw to all the 1 year contracts they got going there, plus Luck's former college coach, and it sure looks like SF is looking to "Suck for Luck" this year.

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 03:35 PM
But the fumbled snap and then inability to recover the ball (it was only 3rd down) was Orton. Any way you slice it, he had the opportunity to win 6 games in the 4th quarter on the final drive and only pulled it our once.

I've never faulted Orton for the fumbled snap against the Jets. That was on the center. IIRC the ball carimed away from Orton. But we did miss on other scoring opportunities that killed us.

TXBRONC
08-23-2011, 03:41 PM
Especially not when there are three other kids that might be just as capable, if we're within reaching distance and it doesn't cost us the farm then I am cool with it, otherwise just take the next kid on your list and move forward.

If we have our choice Luck is at the top of list. But if he's not there's still going to be several other prospects that are going to worth the risk.

Lancane
08-23-2011, 04:20 PM
Maybe we should trade for Matt Leinart since you seem to have such a hard on for USC QBs.

"Solid" for a first round pick isnt really good enough. Many people would use solid to describe Orton. I'm just too concerned we'd be getting Jimmy Clausen.

I don't have a hard-on for USC quarterbacks, in fact before the 2006 NFL Draft I said that Leinart would be a bust and the same for Young. You have some sort of biased based hate for Southern Cal or at least for their quarterbacks, I don't buy into the bullshit of a program not being able to produce talent at any given position. After all, who did Tennessee produce before Manning? Do you know how many active pro quarterbacks are currently in the NFL from USC? Four or five, and three are starters or would be if Palmer didn't have a stick up his ass! I like Sanchez and I think he'll have a breakout season, but I've also said he'd be better in a spread offense more then a west coast variant and I stand by that...Cassel, luckily for him was in an Air-Erhardt system and is currently in another spread offense which suits him. We are running a Erhardt-Perkins based offense, a spread offensive scheme and Barkley I believe would be a terrific fit, I also believe that he'd do well elsewhere with a number of other teams. Right now you're wearing your hate on your sleeve. And in regards to Claussen he had bust written on him as well, he believed his own hype from day one and never became humble to the fact that he could fail.


I'd actually prefer to go with Tebow. He's responeded well in every game situation to the speed of the game. People over emphasize the back to front when it comes to QBs. By that I mean, they look at how a guy throws in situations that dont indicate what he will do in a game at live NFL speed. Its like major league baseball. Some guys have inefficient loopy swings but in spite of that, the guys with the less efficient swings can sometimes hit 95 mph pitching better than the guys with the shorter, more compact teams. When people look at NFL QBs, too much time is focused on whether he has a loopy, inefficient swing and not enough time looking at how he responds to 95 mph pitching.

You could justify going all in for Luck. But to settle for one of the other guys. Meh.

Again this is completely opinionative, but you believe in Tebow, there is a reason that well over three-quarters of the professionals in and around the sport do not, could he become better and prove them wrong? Certainly, but so far he's doing the opposite. I understand what you're saying with your metaphoric statement, but there is a given formula that has been proven time and time again regarding success in the NFL, and that is that those quarterbacks that are more mobile then those that have pocket presence fail, as do the teams they are on...now if Tebow could stay in the pocket and showed signs that he'd only rely on his feet as a last resort and was turning into a pocket passing quarterback then I could see even with all the other issues about giving him a chance - but he's not.

You simply believe something I do not, that is the end of it...you don't have to like it or agree with it, that's just it - because it's my opinion. Some share my opinions and others do not, that is the way with it. We'll just have to wait and see, but if Tebow fails and those others go on to succeed then I dare say that people will be upset with this regime, especially when a year or two later we are having to start drafting lesser quality quarterbacks praying and hoping that we get a break because we can not target top tier talent at the position.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 05:29 PM
I don't have a hard-on for USC quarterbacks, in fact before the 2006 NFL Draft I said that Leinart would be a bust and the same for Young. You have some sort of biased based hate for Southern Cal or at least for their quarterbacks, I don't buy into the bullshit of a program not being able to produce talent at any given position. After all, who did Tennessee produce before Manning? Do you know how many active pro quarterbacks are currently in the NFL from USC? Four or five, and three are starters or would be if Palmer didn't have a stick up his ass! I like Sanchez and I think he'll have a breakout season, but I've also said he'd be better in a spread offense more then a west coast variant and I stand by that...Cassel, luckily for him was in an Air-Erhardt system and is currently in another spread offense which suits him. We are running a Erhardt-Perkins based offense, a spread offensive scheme and Barkley I believe would be a terrific fit, I also believe that he'd do well elsewhere with a number of other teams. Right now you're wearing your hate on your sleeve. And in regards to Claussen he had bust written on him as well, he believed his own hype from day one and never became humble to the fact that he could fail.





You're really contradicting yourself.

chazoe60
08-23-2011, 05:30 PM
Is it wrong of me to just want 2011 to be over, Orton gone, Tebow moved to H-back, and Andrew Luck to be our QB?

Rick
08-23-2011, 05:41 PM
I suppose if we landed the first pick and the best QB prospect in the last several years is sitting there I wouldn't be pissed we took him.

Forgive me though for hoping we are good enough this year to be out of the Luck sweepstakes and Quinn or Tebow shows enough for the front office to want to continue with them.

Give me a DT, MLB, or if Ayers isn't up to snuff a nice DE...

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 05:44 PM
I suppose if we landed the first pick and the best QB prospect in the last several years is sitting there I wouldn't be pissed we took him.

Forgive me though for hoping we are good enough this year to be out of the Luck sweepstakes and Quinn or Tebow shows enough for the front office to want to continue with them.

Give me a DT, MLB, or if Ayers isn't up to snuff a nice DE...

Brace yourself for the USC fanboys.

Rick
08-23-2011, 06:08 PM
It is just with me, we just hired a HC that has a defensive specialty.

I would just like for once to feel what it is like to have a team build itself into a top defense in the league.

If Quinn and Tebow proves to utterly suck and we have no hope throwing the ball then so be it, we need to address it but I just really hope they prove to be good enough and we can keep focusing on the D.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 06:25 PM
I hope we don't move forward with Quinn.. for certain. I'm not sold on Tebow at all, but I'm willing to see. Lets hope that those in charge are smart enough to draft a QB before relying on Quinn to be our guy of the future. Its MUCH easier to build with a top-flight QB than it is to build a defense to make up for his deficiencies.

chazoe60
08-23-2011, 06:27 PM
I hope we don't move forward with Quinn.. for certain. I'm not sold on Tebow at all, but I'm willing to see. Lets hope that those in charge are smart enough to draft a QB before relying on Quinn to be our guy of the future. Its MUCH easier to build with a top-flight QB than it is to build a defense to make up for his deficiencies.

I just pray that we don't sign that lump Orton to an extension. That would be a disaster.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 06:28 PM
I just pray that we don't sign that lump Orton to an extension. That would be a disaster.

I can't see that happening. Orton wants to move on out of here, and away from the Tebow name as much as we want him out. He'll be gone.

chazoe60
08-23-2011, 06:31 PM
I can't see that happening. Orton wants to move on out of here, and away from the Tebow name as much as we want him out. He'll be gone.

I hope you're right, but he already had his chance with Miami and passed on the opportunity.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 06:36 PM
I hope you're right, but he already had his chance with Miami and passed on the opportunity.

No. He wasn't willing to simply take a big pay cut. I can't blame him, I wouldn't either. Why throw away millions when you are GUARANTEED millions? Thats not smart, and financially stupid. He had to do what was right for him, and being sure he wasn't LOSING money was the right thing to do for HIM. If Miami was willing to give him the same amount of money guaranteed, he would have been gone. They weren't willing to make that commitment, so neither was Orton.

I would have done the same thing if I was in his shoes. I think everyone would have. He knew he had a starting spot here (because he knew he was better than Tim) and he had his 8 million. Why would he choose to leave that for a lesser deal?

atwater27
08-23-2011, 08:11 PM
I would love to see luck hit Denver. But unless we get the pick, we should under absolutely no circumstances mortgage our future for one guy. If we have an early pick, Defense Defense Defense.

CoachChaz
08-23-2011, 09:24 PM
Just forget about Luck. Unless he takes a step backwards (definitely possible...in fact...likely), he'll be a top 5 pick. In fact, if Barkley has another season of improvement...they could both be in the same sentence, and likely out of our range. Unless things go crazy, I see us left with Jones as the option if we want to go with a QB in round 1. And I swear I will lose my mind if we drafted Lindley ANYWHERE in the first round. Talk about a "project". I'd rather Nick Foles or Kirk Cousins over Lindley.

Anyway...we'll have to be VERY pathetic to have a chance at Luck or Barkley and while I dont foresee a playoff season...I also dont see another season where we pick top 5...or even top 10

broncohead
08-23-2011, 09:34 PM
Now is the time to get a franchise QB imo. Don't want to give up sacrificing the future but I think Barkley or Jones will be within reach. We also need DT but honestly how many teams make it deep into the playoffs without a franchise QB

CoachChaz
08-23-2011, 09:43 PM
Now is the time to get a franchise QB imo. Don't want to give up sacrificing the future but I think Barkley or Jones will be within reach. We also need DT but honestly how many teams make it deep into the playoffs without a franchise QB

Other than Worthy, the DT field is weak. Jones should be in our reach...Barkley might be. But I'd be prepared to look at Foles or Cousins in round 2.

Also need a CB under 30. Plenty of depth there

Lancane
08-23-2011, 09:59 PM
You're really contradicting yourself.

That's not contradiction to one's self, I simply asked if you knew how many pro quarterbacks that are currently active in the NFL from USC? I never said I think highly of Palmer or Cassel, in fact the only USC quarterback would have been okay seeing in Denver was Sanchez, so again you're assuming something and arguing on that basis and that doesn't make what you're guessing at to be true! In fact you know so little about me, because if you did, then you'd know that usually I support athletes from the Big Ten over any other conference, followed by the Atlantic and Mid-American conferences.

The reason I asked about how many USC quarterbacks are currently active in the NFL was to prove a point, because if we trust in the quintessential fact that some schools can not produce pro quality quarterbacks, then Tebow comes from a school that has produced far fewer then any other big time program and probably should be labeled a bust simply because that's where he went to school.

MOtorboat
08-23-2011, 10:00 PM
I've been trying to figure out the purpose of this thread all day.

The question is unaswerable. It's irrelevant really, because there are so many variables involved, that can't even remotely be answered for months.

I could understand the thread if it were about where Luck might be drafted, or what he might do this next year, but to even speculate where he will be drafted, much less the draft order and draft value the pick holds is, until after the season, completely irrelevant.

Speculating on who is drafting who at what slot in the draft is one thing. This, is quite frankly, like trying to guess where lightning is going to strike. Its an exercise in futility.

SpringsBroncoFan
08-23-2011, 10:09 PM
In my mind the winner of the suck for Luck derby will be the Bengals. They are going with a rookie QB and an OL that all look terrible.

It's hard to imagine Carolina sucking that bad two years in a row and Horton & his happy feet should have a better time behind a more stable OL.

Vegas Super Bowl odds seem to have it as Carolina, Buffalo, & Denver all tied in the suck derby followed by Cleveland, Cincinnati, & Arizona all tied in the next slot. Of those teams it just seems that Cincy is going to suck the most in terms of QB & line play, although Seattle with Okung hurt & Tavaris running their team... who knows...

In terms of trading up it seems it would be hard for teams to outbid the Pats given they always have picks stockpiled.

Broncos still have needs but if EFX feel the right move is to trade up for Luck or Barkley & it's doable then go for it...

CoachChaz
08-23-2011, 10:10 PM
I've been trying to figure out the purpose of this thread all day.

The question is unaswerable. It's irrelevant really, because there are so many variables involved, that can't even remotely be answered for months.

I could understand the thread if it were about where Luck might be drafted, or what he might do this next year, but to even speculate where he will be drafted, much less the draft order and draft value the pick holds is, until after the season, completely irrelevant.

Speculating on who is drafting who at what slot in the draft is one thing. This, is quite frankly, like trying to guess where lightning is going to strike. Its an exercise in futility.

I think the original premise of the thread is the negative approach to assuming we will suck this year as bad...or worse...than we did last year. So before you can dive into it, you first have to piss and moan about how horrible this team is, even though they havent played a game yet with all the new variables we have.

My response was based on the projected areas that the top QBs will land. Luck - potential top 5...Barkley - potential top 10...Jones - potential top 15.

But even that projection is premature. If Jones and Barkley improve at the pace they have been, they could move up and Luck quite honestly has a target on his back. It's almost ludicrous to assume he'll repeat his insane numbers of a year ago.

Anyway...to directly answer the question as the original post presents...you'd need a crystal ball

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 10:12 PM
in fact the only USC quarterback would have been okay seeing in Denver was Sanchez,

Ugh. I think so little of Sanchez. He's not better than Orton

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 10:14 PM
But even that projection is premature. If Jones and Barkley improve at the pace they have been, they could move up and Luck quite honestly has a target on his back. It's almost ludicrous to assume he'll repeat his insane numbers of a year ago.



Although, Luck wasn't just rated as the best QB of last year's class. He has been rated as the best QB prospect SINCE Elway. Thats not just saying "he's the best this year." I find it VERY VERY unlikely that Barkley will get any kind of rating close to that. They aren't just looking at stats when making ratings.

MOtorboat
08-23-2011, 10:16 PM
I think the original premise of the thread is the negative approach to assuming we will suck this year as bad...or worse...than we did last year. So before you can dive into it, you first have to piss and moan about how horrible this team is, even though they havent played a game yet with all the new variables we have.

My response was based on the projected areas that the top QBs will land. Luck - potential top 5...Barkley - potential top 10...Jones - potential top 15.

But even that projection is premature. If Jones and Barkley improve at the pace they have been, they could move up and Luck quite honestly has a target on his back. It's almost ludicrous to assume he'll repeat his insane numbers of a year ago.

Anyway...to directly answer the question as the original post presents...you'd need a crystal ball

If we're going to suck that bad, then Denver will have the No. 1 pick, therefore, again, making the question irrelevant. It's not even a good discussion topic, because the variables are so erronious.

Slick
08-23-2011, 10:16 PM
Ugh. I think so little of Sanchez. He's not better than Orton

He has better wheels but agreed.

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Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 10:18 PM
He has better wheels but agreed.

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Yeah.. but Orton is the better passer.

CoachChaz
08-23-2011, 10:22 PM
Although, Luck wasn't just rated as the best QB of last year's class. He has been rated as the best QB prospect SINCE Elway. Thats not just saying "he's the best this year." I find it VERY VERY unlikely that Barkley will get any kind of rating close to that. They aren't just looking at stats when making ratings.

No doubt...but how many of the top 10 QB's in the NFL were #1 overall picks? How many were even top 5 picks? I guess my point is I'm not selling the farm unless the upgrade is significant.

If the NFL had a draft of current players and I had the 10th pick, would I trade up to get Manning or Brady if I was pretty confident that Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers, etc would be available? Hell no.

Luck is a stud, but Barkley is no slouch...nor is Jones. I would happily take either of the latter at a later point if it meant I could keep the rest of my picks and continue to improve the supporting cast

sneakers
08-23-2011, 10:22 PM
**** Luck! Win With Quinn!

BroncoStud
08-23-2011, 10:23 PM
Is it wrong of me to just want 2011 to be over, Orton gone, Tebow moved to H-back, and Andrew Luck to be our QB?

Nope, I think many of us would prefer that scenario.

CoachChaz
08-23-2011, 10:23 PM
He has better wheels but agreed.

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Manning might have better wheels than Orton

Ravage!!!
08-23-2011, 10:35 PM
No doubt...but how many of the top 10 QB's in the NFL were #1 overall picks? How many were even top 5 picks? I guess my point is I'm not selling the farm unless the upgrade is significant.



True.. but how many have had that kind of rating? Manning?

I can think of Manning, Rivers, Ryan, Manning, Bradford, Vick, McNabb (I know, no longer top QB, but still), and Stafford (yeah, I know..stretching until he proves he can stay healthy). Point is thats 25% of the NFL just right there that were top 5 picks. Stafford is obviously not a top 10 (yet), and McNabb isn't any more as well....but still a signifcant amount of QBs

CoachChaz
08-23-2011, 10:39 PM
True.. but how many have had that kind of rating? Manning?

I can think of Manning, Rivers, Ryan, Manning, Bradford, Vick, McNabb (I know, no longer top QB, but still), and Stafford (yeah, I know..stretching until he proves he can stay healthy). Point is thats 25% of the NFL just right there that were top 5 picks. Stafford is obviously not a top 10, and McNabb isn't any more as well....but still a signifcant amount of QBs

I defeinitely see your point, b ut like I said...he can be the second comong of Christ...but realistically...how much better will his NFL stats be than the next guy? Is he going to pass for 5000 yards and 50 TD's?

Yes, right now he is the top prospect in the country, but I dont think a team requires the top prospect to succeed. If Denver is in a position to draft him...GREAT!! But if he is not available...and Barkley and Jones are...I'm okay with that

Canmore
08-23-2011, 10:42 PM
In my mind the winner of the suck for Luck derby will be the Bengals. They are going with a rookie QB and an OL that all look terrible.

It's hard to imagine Carolina sucking that bad two years in a row and Horton & his happy feet should have a better time behind a more stable OL.

Vegas Super Bowl odds seem to have it as Carolina, Buffalo, & Denver all tied in the suck derby followed by Cleveland, Cincinnati, & Arizona all tied in the next slot. Of those teams it just seems that Cincy is going to suck the most in terms of QB & line play, although Seattle with Okung hurt & Tavaris running their team... who knows...

In terms of trading up it seems it would be hard for teams to outbid the Pats given they always have picks stockpiled.

Broncos still have needs but if EFX feel the right move is to trade up for Luck or Barkley & it's doable then go for it...

I see us as being better than those five teams. I see us picking sixth or seventh at this point. I think our quarterback situation is better. Hate on Orton, but at this point in time he's better than most of that pack. We will see about Kolb. I see growing pains in Arizona but maybe he lights it up from the start. If my crystal ball is correct that leaves us out of the Luck race.

Agent of Orange
08-23-2011, 10:45 PM
No doubt...but how many of the top 10 QB's in the NFL were #1 overall picks? How many were even top 5 picks? I guess my point is I'm not selling the farm unless the upgrade is significant.

If the NFL had a draft of current players and I had the 10th pick, would I trade up to get Manning or Brady if I was pretty confident that Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers, etc would be available? Hell no.
Luck is a stud, but Barkley is no slouch...nor is Jones. I would happily take either of the latter at a later point if it meant I could keep the rest of my picks and continue to improve the supporting cast

That argument doesnt work. You're talking about picking from a lot of players who are already proven, which is not the same as picking from the college draft where the level of assurance provided by someone like Peyton Manning is means a lot more.

CoachChaz
08-23-2011, 10:51 PM
That argument doesnt work. You're talking about picking from a lot of players who are already proven, which is not the same as picking from the college draft where the level of assurance provided by someone like Peyton Manning is means a lot more.

The list I made is of players proven at one level. Luck, Jones and Barkley are proven at a different level. Yes, it's kind of an apples to oranges scenario, but is Manning or Brady THAT much better than Rodgers or Rivers? (assuming the supporting cast is equal).

That being said...is Luck THAT much better than Barkley or Jones? Maybe a notch better, but assuming they all succeed in the NFL, do you like the Bengals with Luck or Denver with Landry or Jones?

Basically, based on ratings, let's assume Manning is the top ranked QB in the NFL and Brady is 2 and Rodgers is 3 and Rivers is 4. Is your team really worse off having Rodgers instead of Manning?


Bouncing around a bit, but just trying different avenues to explain my point.

PAINTERDAVE
08-23-2011, 11:04 PM
Harbaugh is gone...
what if Luck has a crappy year?

wasn't Jake Locker ranked high..
then he had a tough season? IIRC?

The future is unwritten....
Luck may NOT be the #1 pick...

Stargazer
08-23-2011, 11:53 PM
Harbaugh is gone...
what if Luck has a crappy year?

wasn't Jake Locker ranked high..
then he had a tough season? IIRC?

The future is unwritten....
Luck may NOT be the #1 pick...

Locker was raw. But, Locker still went #8 overall. Luck is ahead at this stage. He should go #1 overall next year barring injury.

BroncoStud
08-24-2011, 12:00 AM
Harbaugh is gone...
what if Luck has a crappy year?

wasn't Jake Locker ranked high..
then he had a tough season? IIRC?

The future is unwritten....
Luck may NOT be the #1 pick...

I could only hope you're right but Luck is ridiculous. Besides, anyone seen Locker in Preseason yet? He looks like a stud.

PAINTERDAVE
08-24-2011, 12:04 AM
Stargazer.. you adopted Glenn Martinez...
didn't he catch passes from Bradly Van Pelt? :salute:

PAINTERDAVE
08-24-2011, 12:08 AM
I could only hope you're right but Luck is ridiculous. Besides, anyone seen Locker in Preseason yet? He looks like a stud.

That is my point...
if Locker dropped to #8...
despite his talent...

maybe Luck will have a crappy season with Harbaugh gone...
maybe he will have a crappy wunderlick score or something...
and some other position players rise to the top...

Just sayin' .... right now there is no telling what next year holds.

If we pick at # 7 or #8... we still got a maybe shot at a good QB...

Luck or some other...

BroncoStud
08-24-2011, 12:11 AM
That is my point...
if Locker dropped to #8...
despite his talent...

maybe Luck will have a crappy season with Harbaugh gone...
maybe he will have a crappy wunderlick score or something...
and some other position players rise to the top...

Just sayin' .... right now there is no telling what next year holds.

If we pick at # 7 or #8... we still got a maybe shot at a good QB...

Luck or some other...

If it isn't Luck I would personally rather keep rebuilding the defense and take our chances with Tebow. We do have an investment in him and it would be a shame not to give him the chance to succeed, or fail.

PAINTERDAVE
08-24-2011, 12:18 AM
If it isn't Luck I would personally rather keep rebuilding the defense and take our chances with Tebow. We do have an investment in him and it would be a shame not to give him the chance to succeed, or fail.

I agree... only I think Tebow is an orphan here now.
I think they ARE gona take a QB in the draft...
and Tim will be in a true competition next year..
I imagine Quinn, Tebow and the drafted rookie...

The rookie will probably need a year or two to acclimate...
(sound familiar?)
so maybe they give Brady and or Tim a shot in 2012...
with the idea that the rook takes over if Tim/Brady fails...

but if one of those guys pans out..
they still have the others as backup.

Agent of Orange
08-24-2011, 01:40 AM
The list I made is of players proven at one level. Luck, Jones and Barkley are proven at a different level. Yes, it's kind of an apples to oranges scenario, but is Manning or Brady THAT much better than Rodgers or Rivers? (assuming the supporting cast is equal).


That being said...is Luck THAT much better than Barkley or Jones? Maybe a notch better, but assuming they all succeed in the NFL, do you like the Bengals with Luck or Denver with Landry or Jones?

Basically, based on ratings, let's assume Manning is the top ranked QB in the NFL and Brady is 2 and Rodgers is 3 and Rivers is 4. Is your team really worse off having Rodgers instead of Manning?


Bouncing around a bit, but just trying different avenues to explain my point.

No, but thats not even the issue. It's about levels of assurance coming out of college. In the case of Manning, it was far more easy to foresee that he would be great. In the case of Rodgers and Brady, there's a higher degree of luck involved.

TXBRONC
08-24-2011, 04:05 AM
Manning might have better wheels than Orton

Even if Manning doesn't have better wheels he certainly has better pocket presences.

Lancane
08-24-2011, 04:47 AM
No, but thats not even the issue. It's about levels of assurance coming out of college. In the case of Manning, it was far more easy to foresee that he would be great. In the case of Rodgers and Brady, there's a higher degree of luck involved.

Assurance? There is no assurance with any athlete transitioning from the collegiate ranks to the pro level, none. That is until now, and the only reason there is a level of assurance is that a rookie wage scale is finally into place. As far as transitioning, there is none and never will be...we've seen some of the most talented collegiate athletes completely fall flat at the pro level; Carlos Rodgers, Peter Warrick, Joey Harrington, Ryan Sims, Jamal Reynolds, Mike Williams, Alex Smith, Tim Biakabutuka, Dewayne Robertson, Reggie Williams, David Terrell, Courtney Brown, David Carr, JaMarcus Russell, Tim Couch and so on. Actually for Denver fans this rings very true, seeing the likes of Willie Middlebrooks, George Foster, Jarvis Moss, Marcus Nash, Ashlie Lelie and quite possibly Demaryius Thomas, even Robert Ayers if he doesn't have better then a sub-par season could be fielded with this group. What you ask for can not be given, not even by the greatest of draft specialist - there is no way to completely measure how tangibles, ability, intelligence and personality will transcend to the NFL, that's why those who can prove themselves in the field are so respected, it's sort of like I would say Sam Rothstein from Casino as a bookie compared to a Brooklyn bookie working out of a bar, who would you trust more?

We all sort of understand what you're getting at Agent, but you're missing what we're pointing out to you...here, let's try this...let's name the first round quarterbacks taken in the NFL Draft since 2000 which have been busts; Chad Pennington, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller, Byron Leftwich, J.P. Losman, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell.

Now, let's list the same first round quarterbacks in that time frame which teeter on the edge, not of capable but of possible busts, possible franchise quarterbacks or in between; Matthew Stafford, Tim Tebow and Sam Bradford. Bradford looks like the real deal, but he will not break out of this category just yet, he still has to prove himself to others before he steps up that ladder. Stafford so far is looking like a bust and not because he lacks the gifts and tangibles, but because he is injury prone. As for Tebow, he's the highest drafted project quarterback of the modern era, he lacks the tangibles but has many great qualities that make him superior to those drafted at the position for the most part, but he's not making progress and that's worrisome.

Now name those that we'd consider above average, possibly franchise capable; Mark Sanchez who needs to have a breakout season or his ceiling might only ever be as a capable above average starter but not the idea franchise quarterback and not elite. Michael Vick is closer now then he was in Atlanta of being a franchise quarterback, he could prove much this season or could prove nothing and remain a capable starter but not much more. Carson Palmer was a franchise capable quarterback in most circles, but now his career is most likely done and so therefore he'll only ever be considered capable. Eli Manning is capable, IMHO he is a franchise quarterback who struggles to maintain that level, he's above average that's for sure. Josh Freeman is on the edge of being more then average, if he has a good season it's fair to say that he is a franchise capable quarterback.

Now let's name those that are considered franchise quarterbacks within most NFL circles; Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. Now it could be argued that Joe Flacco is more like Eli Manning, a struggling franchise quarterback, but he's recognized by NFL players as such more so then Eli. Whereas Big Ben, Rodgers, Ryan and Cutler are all considered franchise quarterbacks, are they elite? I would say they are the elite of the younger quarterbacks drafted since 2000, they may not be Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, but compared to the others in the league drafted since in that period it is arguable. Now let's look at that factor, the chances are rather high that Luck will be more Rivers/Manning type caliber, a true elite. But when you look at Rodgers, Ryan, Cutler and Roethlisberger or even Flacco, what stands out? To me, it's the fact that Ryan is the only one to be drafted in the top five, whilst Flacco, Roethlisberger, Cutler and Rodgers were all mid to late first round picks which sort of kills your argument Agent, no matter how you twist it, but again there is no guarantees and that goes for all positions.

If I was to compare the top four quarterbacks of the 2012 Draft, Luck is more like Peyton Manning then Phillip Rivers, he has the tangibles to be great, his arm isn't the strongest, but it's far from weak and he can make all the throws and is the most polished of the entire class. Barkley is better then Sanchez hands down, he's more like Eli Manning to be honest, has a pretty good arm, can make all the throws, is not the most polished but he has a never say die attitude and a drive to win. Landry Jones, this one is sort of hard, he reminds me of a more polished Jake Plummer, has a big arm, can make all the throws and at times tries to pull off some boneheaded passes, he's not as polished as Barkley or Luck, but the very fact that he can spread the field and has that drive to make things happen would make him an automatic favorite in Denver. Lindley is tough, I have to compare him to Cutler, he has a big arm, is not polished, can like those in the same company make all the throws, but he has drive and a passion for the game.

Now, ask yourself this...would you not want a possible Eli Manning, Jay Cutler (with better upside) or a young, better Jake Plummer if we couldn't get the Peyton Manning of the draft? Most would say yes...you may see it differently but there is no exact formula to guarantee any player, none whatsoever.

SOCALORADO.
08-24-2011, 08:02 AM
That is my point...
if Locker dropped to #8...
despite his talent...

maybe Luck will have a crappy season with Harbaugh gone...
maybe he will have a crappy wunderlick score or something...
and some other position players rise to the top...

Just sayin' .... right now there is no telling what next year holds.

If we pick at # 7 or #8... we still got a maybe shot at a good QB...

Luck or some other...

Dude, do some homework on Andrew Luck.
The guy went back to Stanford to get his degree!
Hes the biggest NERD in california.
His family from what i hear, has money.
If these are his downsides, i dont think you have much to worry about.

Just read.
8/18/11: Andrew Luck probably would have been the first pick in the 2011 NFL Draft if he had chosen to leave college. Right now he is the clear favorite to be the top pick in the 2012 NFL Draft. Many NFL scouts feel that Luck is one of the most pro-ready quarterback prospects over the past decade. Luck will be challenged to meet expectations for this season, but Stanford has talent around him so it won't be a one-man show.

Stanford enters the season ranked sixth overall in the coaches poll. Only Oregon ranks ahead of the Cardinal from the PAC 12. Thus, Luck will enter the season with a target on his jersey. Last year, Luck completed an amazing 71 percent of his passes as a sophomore. He threw for 32 touchdowns with only eight interceptions. Luck also ran for 453 yards and three scores. Luck showed massive improvement compared to the previous season. In his first year as a starter in 2009 Luck threw for 2,575 yards and 13 touchdowns with four interceptions. He completed 56 percent of his passes and ran for 354 yards and two touchdowns.

Luck is a complete package. He has the size, arm strength and mechanics to be a lethal pocket passer. He also has good mobility, a seven yards per carry average in his career, and escapability when he sees a rush. Luck's footwork is phenomenal and he clearly is well-groomed by former head coach Jim Harbaugh. Luck is extremely intelligent. As a result some question Luck's competitive drive because he is described as somewhat nerdy and focused on his academics, but Luck is a winner and a hard worker that looks like a very safe pick at the top of the draft.

PAINTERDAVE
08-24-2011, 08:32 AM
Dude, do some homework on Andrew Luck.
The guy went back to Stanford to get his degree!
Hes the biggest NERD in california.
His family from what i hear, has money.
If these are his downsides, i dont think you have much to worry about.

Just read.
8/18/11: Andrew Luck probably would have been the first pick in the 2011 NFL Draft if he had chosen to leave college. Right now he is the clear favorite to be the top pick in the 2012 NFL Draft. Many NFL scouts feel that Luck is one of the most pro-ready quarterback prospects over the past decade. Luck will be challenged to meet expectations for this season, but Stanford has talent around him so it won't be a one-man show.

Stanford enters the season ranked sixth overall in the coaches poll. Only Oregon ranks ahead of the Cardinal from the PAC 12. Thus, Luck will enter the season with a target on his jersey. Last year, Luck completed an amazing 71 percent of his passes as a sophomore. He threw for 32 touchdowns with only eight interceptions. Luck also ran for 453 yards and three scores. Luck showed massive improvement compared to the previous season. In his first year as a starter in 2009 Luck threw for 2,575 yards and 13 touchdowns with four interceptions. He completed 56 percent of his passes and ran for 354 yards and two touchdowns.

Luck is a complete package. He has the size, arm strength and mechanics to be a lethal pocket passer. He also has good mobility, a seven yards per carry average in his career, and escapability when he sees a rush. Luck's footwork is phenomenal and he clearly is well-groomed by former head coach Jim Harbaugh. Luck is extremely intelligent. As a result some question Luck's competitive drive because he is described as somewhat nerdy and focused on his academics, but Luck is a winner and a hard worker that looks like a very safe pick at the top of the draft.

Yeah.. that makes my point seem... pointless.

SOCALORADO.
08-24-2011, 08:48 AM
Yeah.. that makes my point seem... pointless.
LOL!
Hes as "slamdunk" as they get.

TXBRONC
08-24-2011, 08:50 AM
Assurance? There is no assurance with any athlete transitioning from the collegiate ranks to the pro level, none. That is until now, and the only reason there is a level of assurance is that a rookie wage scale is finally into place. As far as transitioning, there is none and never will be...we've seen some of the most talented collegiate athletes completely fall flat at the pro level; Carlos Rodgers, Peter Warrick, Joey Harrington, Ryan Sims, Jamal Reynolds, Mike Williams, Alex Smith, Tim Biakabutuka, Dewayne Robertson, Reggie Williams, David Terrell, Courtney Brown, David Carr, JaMarcus Russell, Tim Couch and so on. Actually for Denver fans this rings very true, seeing the likes of Willie Middlebrooks, George Foster, Jarvis Moss, Marcus Nash, Ashlie Lelie and quite possibly Demaryius Thomas, even Robert Ayers if he doesn't have better then a sub-par season could be fielded with this group. What you ask for can not be given, not even by the greatest of draft specialist - there is no way to completely measure how tangibles, ability, intelligence and personality will transcend to the NFL, that's why those who can prove themselves in the field are so respected, it's sort of like I would say Sam Rothstein from Casino as a bookie compared to a Brooklyn bookie working out of a bar, who would you trust more?

We all sort of understand what you're getting at Agent, but you're missing what we're pointing out to you...here, let's try this...let's name the first round quarterbacks taken in the NFL Draft since 2000 which have been busts; Chad Pennington, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller, Byron Leftwich, J.P. Losman, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell.

Now, let's list the same first round quarterbacks in that time frame which teeter on the edge, not of capable but of possible busts, possible franchise quarterbacks or in between; Matthew Stafford, Tim Tebow and Sam Bradford. Bradford looks like the real deal, but he will not break out of this category just yet, he still has to prove himself to others before he steps up that ladder. Stafford so far is looking like a bust and not because he lacks the gifts and tangibles, but because he is injury prone. As for Tebow, he's the highest drafted project quarterback of the modern era, he lacks the tangibles but has many great qualities that make him superior to those drafted at the position for the most part, but he's not making progress and that's worrisome.

Now name those that we'd consider above average, possibly franchise capable; Mark Sanchez who needs to have a breakout season or his ceiling might only ever be as a capable above average starter but not the idea franchise quarterback and not elite. Michael Vick is closer now then he was in Atlanta of being a franchise quarterback, he could prove much this season or could prove nothing and remain a capable starter but not much more. Carson Palmer was a franchise capable quarterback in most circles, but now his career is most likely done and so therefore he'll only ever be considered capable. Eli Manning is capable, IMHO he is a franchise quarterback who struggles to maintain that level, he's above average that's for sure. Josh Freeman is on the edge of being more then average, if he has a good season it's fair to say that he is a franchise capable quarterback.

Now let's name those that are considered franchise quarterbacks within most NFL circles; Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. Now it could be argued that Joe Flacco is more like Eli Manning, a struggling franchise quarterback, but he's recognized by NFL players as such more so then Eli. Whereas Big Ben, Rodgers, Ryan and Cutler are all considered franchise quarterbacks, are they elite? I would say they are the elite of the younger quarterbacks drafted since 2000, they may not be Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, but compared to the others in the league drafted since in that period it is arguable. Now let's look at that factor, the chances are rather high that Luck will be more Rivers/Manning type caliber, a true elite. But when you look at Rodgers, Ryan, Cutler and Roethlisberger or even Flacco, what stands out? To me, it's the fact that Ryan is the only one to be drafted in the top five, whilst Flacco, Roethlisberger, Cutler and Rodgers were all mid to late first round picks which sort of kills your argument Agent, no matter how you twist it, but again there is no guarantees and that goes for all positions.

If I was to compare the top four quarterbacks of the 2012 Draft, Luck is more like Peyton Manning then Phillip Rivers, he has the tangibles to be great, his arm isn't the strongest, but it's far from weak and he can make all the throws and is the most polished of the entire class. Barkley is better then Sanchez hands down, he's more like Eli Manning to be honest, has a pretty good arm, can make all the throws, is not the most polished but he has a never say die attitude and a drive to win. Landry Jones, this one is sort of hard, he reminds me of a more polished Jake Plummer, has a big arm, can make all the throws and at times tries to pull off some boneheaded passes, he's not as polished as Barkley or Luck, but the very fact that he can spread the field and has that drive to make things happen would make him an automatic favorite in Denver. Lindley is tough, I have to compare him to Cutler, he has a big arm, is not polished, can like those in the same company make all the throws, but he has drive and a passion for the game.

Now, ask yourself this...would you not want a possible Eli Manning, Jay Cutler (with better upside) or a young, better Jake Plummer if we couldn't get the Peyton Manning of the draft? Most would say yes...you may see it differently but there is no exact formula to guarantee any player, none whatsoever.

Cutler was taken with with 11th overall pick and could have easily been in the top ten. If the rumor is true that Jeff Fisher wanted Cutler over Young then the only thing kept him out of the top five was Bud Adams.

Lancane
08-24-2011, 09:32 AM
Cutler was taken with with 11th overall pick and could have easily been in the top ten. If the rumor is true that Jeff Fisher wanted Cutler over Young then the only thing kept him out of the top five was Bud Adams.

That is true, Fisher was high on Cutler but was forced to take Young because Adams, which I find funny now that he has neither any longer.

But again it proves much of what we've all been saying, that we don't know how the draft will play out in the end and that if you overlook someone because they're not the top overall at their position is just pure idiocy and a good way to fail building a solid roster. Cutler wasn't rated the top of his class, neither was Roethlisberger, Flacco, Rodgers, Marino, Kelly, O'Brien, Cunningham, Schaub, Brady, Farve, Montana, Young, Plummer, McNabb, Brees, Rivers, Sanchez or Freeman, all of them were not graded as the top quarterbacks of their respective classes.

And for those believing that there is no way a large number of quarterbacks will be drafted, it's not unheard of, last year we saw four taken within the top 12, in 1999 there were five drafted within the top thirteen picks.

SOCALORADO.
08-24-2011, 09:43 AM
That is true, Fisher was high on Cutler but was forced to take Young because Adams, which I find funny now that he has neither any longer.

But again it proves much of what we've all been saying, that we don't know how the draft will play out in the end and that if you overlook someone because they're not the top overall at their position is just pure idiocy and a good way to fail building a solid roster. Cutler wasn't rated the top of his class, neither was Roethlisberger, Flacco, Rodgers, Marino, Kelly, O'Brien, Cunningham, Schaub, Brady, Farve, Montana, Young, Plummer, McNabb, Brees, Rivers, Sanchez or Freeman, all of them were not graded as the top quarterbacks of their respective classes.

And for those believing that there is no way a large number of quarterbacks will be drafted, it's not unheard of, last year we saw four taken within the top 12, in 1999 there were five drafted within the top thirteen picks.

I think there will be 3 QBs taken in the top 5 picks of this upcoming draft.
Luck
Barkley
Landry

Ravage!!!
08-24-2011, 09:44 AM
No, but thats not even the issue. It's about levels of assurance coming out of college. In the case of Manning, it was far more easy to foresee that he would be great. In the case of Rodgers and Brady, there's a higher degree of luck involved.

Great point and right on

Lancane
08-24-2011, 09:46 AM
I think there will be 3 QBs taken in the top 5 picks of this upcoming draft.
Luck
Barkley
Landry

I am going to go out on a limb and say four in the top twelve, Luck will be the first taken, followed by Jones (a guess) then Barkley, I have a feeling Landley will round out the top four in the draft.

;)

Ravage!!!
08-24-2011, 09:48 AM
I defeinitely see your point, b ut like I said...he can be the second comong of Christ...but realistically...how much better will his NFL stats be than the next guy? Is he going to pass for 5000 yards and 50 TD's?

Yes, right now he is the top prospect in the country, but I dont think a team requires the top prospect to succeed. If Denver is in a position to draft him...GREAT!! But if he is not available...and Barkley and Jones are...I'm okay with that

I agree with this completely, even t hough it counters what I just said previously.

I guess I can't help but get "giddy" at the idea of having he best QB prospect SINCE Elway...coming to Denver. I mean, the last QB with such a high rating coming out of Stanford turned out pretty damned well for us!! I know my family is already saying to me (and they are Chief fans, bless their lil hearts) "the LAST thing we need is for Denver to get another Stanford QB and terrorize us for the next 15 years!"

Just the thought of that happening, makes me jump up aand down and clap my hands like a 12 yr old girl! :lol:

TXBRONC
08-24-2011, 09:51 AM
That is true, Fisher was high on Cutler but was forced to take Young because Adams, which I find funny now that he has neither any longer.

But again it proves much of what we've all been saying, that we don't know how the draft will play out in the end and that if you overlook someone because they're not the top overall at their position is just pure idiocy and a good way to fail building a solid roster. Cutler wasn't rated the top of his class, neither was Roethlisberger, Flacco, Rodgers, Marino, Kelly, O'Brien, Cunningham, Schaub, Brady, Farve, Montana, Young, Plummer, McNabb, Brees, Rivers, Sanchez or Freeman, all of them were not graded as the top quarterbacks of their respective classes.

And for those believing that there is no way a large number of quarterbacks will be drafted, it's not unheard of, last year we saw four taken within the top 12, in 1999 there were five drafted within the top thirteen picks.

Speaking of Freeman. Look how quickly Freeman is developing as quarterback. He was 17th overall pick in 2009 and he put numbers good enough for a playoff team. Where would be if we had taken him instead of Ayers whom we chose with the very next pick?

TXBRONC
08-24-2011, 09:59 AM
I agree with this completely, even t hough it counters what I just said previously.

I guess I can't help but get "giddy" at the idea of having he best QB prospect SINCE Elway...coming to Denver. I mean, the last QB with such a high rating coming out of Stanford turned out pretty damned well for us!! I know my family is already saying to me (and they are Chief fans, bless their lil hearts) "the LAST thing we need is for Denver to get another Stanford QB and terrorize us for the next 15 years!"

Just the thought of that happening, makes me jump up aand down and clap my hands like a 12 yr old girl! :lol:

If we win two to four games more than last season we wont be within sniffing distance of Luck. However, we could be in the running for one of the other top prospects.

Northman
08-24-2011, 10:03 AM
I think Denver will take a CB in round one........













JK.........

Ravage!!!
08-24-2011, 10:06 AM
:whoo::smack:
I think Denver will take a CB in round one........




JK.........

:whoo: :smack:

broncobryce
08-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Who needs andrew luck when you've got kyle orton?

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

dunk7
08-24-2011, 10:19 AM
IMHO, I think other teams are positioning themselves to get their shot at Luck and Barkley. SF and Sea are going to tank this season. Harbaugh wants Luck so he'll start whichever QB gives him the best chance at that (I could see him showcasing Kaepernick for a trade) and Carroll starting Tavaris?!? That has to be a "throwing of the season" ploy.

Northman
08-24-2011, 10:20 AM
IMHO, I think other teams are positioning themselves to get their shot at Luck and Barkley. SF and Sea are going to tank this season. Harbaugh wants Luck so he'll start whichever QB gives him the best chance at that (I could see him showcasing Kaepernick for a trade) and Carroll starting Tavaris?!? That has to be a "throwing of the season" ploy.

Yea, i can see Harbaugh trying really hard to get his boy.

Lancane
08-24-2011, 10:21 AM
IMHO, I think other teams are positioning themselves to get their shot at Luck and Barkley. SF and Sea are going to tank this season. Harbaugh wants Luck so he'll start whichever QB gives him the best chance at that (I could see him showcasing Kaepernick for a trade) and Carroll starting Tavaris?!? That has to be a "throwing of the season" ploy.

Drugs are bad...mmmmmkay?

Harbaugh is high on Kapernick, and Carroll has stated that they need to get back to the playoffs, I don't see any team lining up to fail.

slim
08-24-2011, 10:21 AM
IMHO, I think other teams are positioning themselves to get their shot at Luck and Barkley. SF and Sea are going to tank this season. Harbaugh wants Luck so he'll start whichever QB gives him the best chance at that (I could see him showcasing Kaepernick for a trade) and Carroll starting Tavaris?!? That has to be a "throwing of the season" ploy.

Sea makes me laugh. Last year it was Whitehurst and this year it's Jackson...WTF are they thinking?

slim
08-24-2011, 10:22 AM
Drugs are bad...mmmmmkay?

Harbaugh is high on Kapernick, and Carroll has stated that they need to get back to the playoffs, I don't see any team lining up to fail.

I don't think any team would throw the season, but Tavaris Jackson? :laugh:

Northman
08-24-2011, 10:23 AM
I don't think any team would throw the season, but Tavaris Jackson? :laugh:

Sounds like throwing a season to me. :lol:

Lancane
08-24-2011, 10:23 AM
I think Denver will take a CB in round one........













JK.........

You think you're a funny mother'F'r today don't ya North? :lol:

:yell: :mad2: :attention:

Northman
08-24-2011, 10:24 AM
You think you're a funny mother'F'r today don't ya North? :lol:

:yell: :mad2: :attention:


Just trying to lighten the mood. What else is there to do. lol

Lancane
08-24-2011, 10:25 AM
Sea makes me laugh. Last year it was Whitehurst and this year it's Jackson...WTF are they thinking?

It's Carroll Slim, the man hasn't had an original thought during most of his career!

TXBRONC
08-24-2011, 10:26 AM
Sea makes me laugh. Last year it was Whitehurst and this year it's Jackson...WTF are they thinking?

Can Pete Carroll be any more obvious about throwing a season? :lol:

NightTerror218
08-24-2011, 11:23 AM
equivalent to 2 or 3 1st rounders

BroncoStud
08-24-2011, 11:42 AM
Sea makes me laugh. Last year it was Whitehurst and this year it's Jackson...WTF are they thinking?

Jackson is horrible. I have yet to see anything in his game that is redeemable. He just sucks.

Stargazer
08-24-2011, 12:18 PM
Stargazer.. you adopted Glenn Martinez...
didn't he catch passes from Bradly Van Pelt? :salute:

Maybe? :laugh: It was either him/plummer/cutler. I'm starting to think Tebow is just a BVP 2.0.

CoachChaz
08-24-2011, 12:34 PM
My point is...if we dont get Luck, I am perfectly fine with Barkley or Jones.

However...if we take Lindley in the first, I am done with this organization. If anyone takes him in the 1st...let alone top 12...i will laugh.

Lancane
08-24-2011, 12:38 PM
My point is...if we dont get Luck, I am perfectly fine with Barkley or Jones.

However...if we take Lindley in the first, I am done with this organization. If anyone takes him in the 1st...let alone top 12...i will laugh.

Why? Lindley is starting to show promise, he hasn't reached a first round grade yet, and it's not easy to do so. But I've heard that he's been working hard to be more polished and NFL ready. I've seen some good and bad from him, so I am just asking why you say that?

Northman
08-24-2011, 12:46 PM
My point is...if we dont get Luck, I am perfectly fine with Barkley or Jones.

However...if we take Lindley in the first, I am done with this organization. If anyone takes him in the 1st...let alone top 12...i will laugh.

Get ready to cry then. Denver never takes who the fans want in the first. :lol:

BroncoBowlby 88
08-24-2011, 12:52 PM
Denver is not going to draft a QB in the first round. any first round pick will be for defense. Luck will end up with a team like the Bills. not even worth thinking about

Lancane
08-24-2011, 12:53 PM
Denver is not going to draft a QB in the first round. any first round pick will be for defense. Luck will end up with a team like the Bills. not even worth thinking about

That's your opinion, glad you shared it and welcome to the boards.

;)

BigDaddyBronco
08-24-2011, 12:55 PM
Sea makes me laugh. Last year it was Whitehurst and this year it's Jackson...WTF are they thinking?

Pete Carroll has an eye on a college job.

Agent of Orange
08-24-2011, 05:22 PM
Assurance? There is no assurance with any athlete transitioning from the collegiate ranks to the pro level, none. That is until now, and the only reason there is a level of assurance is that a rookie wage scale is finally into place. As far as transitioning, there is none and never will be...we've seen some of the most talented collegiate athletes completely fall flat at the pro level; Carlos Rodgers, Peter Warrick, Joey Harrington, Ryan Sims, Jamal Reynolds, Mike Williams, Alex Smith, Tim Biakabutuka, Dewayne Robertson, Reggie Williams, David Terrell, Courtney Brown, David Carr, JaMarcus Russell, Tim Couch and so on. Actually for Denver fans this rings very true, seeing the likes of Willie Middlebrooks, George Foster, Jarvis Moss, Marcus Nash, Ashlie Lelie and quite possibly Demaryius Thomas, even Robert Ayers if he doesn't have better then a sub-par season could be fielded with this group. What you ask for can not be given, not even by the greatest of draft specialist - there is no way to completely measure how tangibles, ability, intelligence and personality will transcend to the NFL, that's why those who can prove themselves in the field are so respected, it's sort of like I would say Sam Rothstein from Casino as a bookie compared to a Brooklyn bookie working out of a bar, who would you trust more?

We all sort of understand what you're getting at Agent, but you're missing what we're pointing out to you...here, let's try this...let's name the first round quarterbacks taken in the NFL Draft since 2000 which have been busts; Chad Pennington, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller, Byron Leftwich, J.P. Losman, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell.

Now, let's list the same first round quarterbacks in that time frame which teeter on the edge, not of capable but of possible busts, possible franchise quarterbacks or in between; Matthew Stafford, Tim Tebow and Sam Bradford. Bradford looks like the real deal, but he will not break out of this category just yet, he still has to prove himself to others before he steps up that ladder. Stafford so far is looking like a bust and not because he lacks the gifts and tangibles, but because he is injury prone. As for Tebow, he's the highest drafted project quarterback of the modern era, he lacks the tangibles but has many great qualities that make him superior to those drafted at the position for the most part, but he's not making progress and that's worrisome.

Now name those that we'd consider above average, possibly franchise capable; Mark Sanchez who needs to have a breakout season or his ceiling might only ever be as a capable above average starter but not the idea franchise quarterback and not elite. Michael Vick is closer now then he was in Atlanta of being a franchise quarterback, he could prove much this season or could prove nothing and remain a capable starter but not much more. Carson Palmer was a franchise capable quarterback in most circles, but now his career is most likely done and so therefore he'll only ever be considered capable. Eli Manning is capable, IMHO he is a franchise quarterback who struggles to maintain that level, he's above average that's for sure. Josh Freeman is on the edge of being more then average, if he has a good season it's fair to say that he is a franchise capable quarterback.

Now let's name those that are considered franchise quarterbacks within most NFL circles; Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. Now it could be argued that Joe Flacco is more like Eli Manning, a struggling franchise quarterback, but he's recognized by NFL players as such more so then Eli. Whereas Big Ben, Rodgers, Ryan and Cutler are all considered franchise quarterbacks, are they elite? I would say they are the elite of the younger quarterbacks drafted since 2000, they may not be Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, but compared to the others in the league drafted since in that period it is arguable. Now let's look at that factor, the chances are rather high that Luck will be more Rivers/Manning type caliber, a true elite. But when you look at Rodgers, Ryan, Cutler and Roethlisberger or even Flacco, what stands out? To me, it's the fact that Ryan is the only one to be drafted in the top five, whilst Flacco, Roethlisberger, Cutler and Rodgers were all mid to late first round picks which sort of kills your argument Agent, no matter how you twist it, but again there is no guarantees and that goes for all positions.

If I was to compare the top four quarterbacks of the 2012 Draft, Luck is more like Peyton Manning then Phillip Rivers, he has the tangibles to be great, his arm isn't the strongest, but it's far from weak and he can make all the throws and is the most polished of the entire class. Barkley is better then Sanchez hands down, he's more like Eli Manning to be honest, has a pretty good arm, can make all the throws, is not the most polished but he has a never say die attitude and a drive to win. Landry Jones, this one is sort of hard, he reminds me of a more polished Jake Plummer, has a big arm, can make all the throws and at times tries to pull off some boneheaded passes, he's not as polished as Barkley or Luck, but the very fact that he can spread the field and has that drive to make things happen would make him an automatic favorite in Denver. Lindley is tough, I have to compare him to Cutler, he has a big arm, is not polished, can like those in the same company make all the throws, but he has drive and a passion for the game.

Now, ask yourself this...would you not want a possible Eli Manning, Jay Cutler (with better upside) or a young, better Jake Plummer if we couldn't get the Peyton Manning of the draft? Most would say yes...you may see it differently but there is no exact formula to guarantee any player, none whatsoever.

I didn't even read all of this. I just read the first couple of lines.

There is no such thing as absolute assurance, but there are varying levels of assurance and Manning was as high as it gets. One of the reasons Manning was so high was because his father was a QB. For whatever reason, it matters, and this is also something Andrew Luck has going for him.

Again, it's about levels of assurance. Making a draft pick is as much about not being wrong as it is about being right. A high level of assurance assuages the risk of being wrong.

Im not really sure why you have a problem with this or even what your issue is...or why you wrote War And Peace as a rebuttal.

Agent of Orange
08-24-2011, 05:24 PM
That's your opinion, glad you shared it and welcome to the boards.

;)

At least it was in 5,000 words or less. ;-]

Npba900
08-24-2011, 08:53 PM
Yeah, the Broncos gave up amazingly little to get Elway. Could you imagine a getting a prospect like Elway today for Hinton and other stuff today?

Look at what Denver got two years ago by trading Cutler to the Bears. We received two Chicago Bears first round draft picks in each subsequent year. The only problem is McD was a horrible talent analyzer and McD picks may not pan or become pro bowl selections. So thats two No.1 draft picks possible wasted for Cutler.

SR
08-24-2011, 09:05 PM
Just curious to see what people think about what it would take to trade up for the often discussed Andrew Luck. Do you think it would even be possible to trade up for him? If so, what would it take?

Remember when Mike Ditka traded all of his picks and then some to draft Ricky Williams? I don't even think that would be enough to get the number one pick next year to get Luck.

Lancane
08-24-2011, 09:06 PM
At least it was in 5,000 words or less. ;-]

I thought you knew how to read...sorry, my mistake! ;)

:laugh:

Npba900
08-24-2011, 09:17 PM
IMHO, I think other teams are positioning themselves to get their shot at Luck and Barkley. SF and Sea are going to tank this season. Harbaugh wants Luck so he'll start whichever QB gives him the best chance at that (I could see him showcasing Kaepernick for a trade) and Carroll starting Tavaris?!? That has to be a "throwing of the season" ploy.

With the Broncos QB's consisting of Orton, Quinn, Web, and Tebow, with key injuries to veteran starters to include Orton and lets say Quinn as well, will put Denver in the running to pick in the top 5 in 2012 draft as well.

If Elway is convinced that Luck is the 2nd coming of Brady or Manning; I can see Elway offering up a No.1 in 2013 to ensure Denver can draft Luck.

Agent of Orange
08-24-2011, 09:23 PM
Remember when Mike Ditka traded all of his picks and then some to draft Ricky Williams? I don't even think that would be enough to get the number one pick next year to get Luck.

I agree. Ive said it would require the bulk of two years worth of draft picks. And it's probably worth it.

Lancane
08-24-2011, 09:38 PM
Remember when Mike Ditka traded all of his picks and then some to draft Ricky Williams? I don't even think that would be enough to get the number one pick next year to get Luck.

I doubt it takes that much, but would probably still be steep, depending on where we eventually land ourselves on the draft board. I don't think we'll see another Ditka or Walker like trade, in that aspect the league has changed. I would say that at worst we'd be looking at two or three first round picks or two first round picks and a premier player.

BroncoStud
08-25-2011, 02:38 AM
Remember when Mike Ditka traded all of his picks and then some to draft Ricky Williams? I don't even think that would be enough to get the number one pick next year to get Luck.

That's kind of what I was thinking. A team would have to salvage their entire draft and probably then some to get Luck. Still, if Denver is sitting there with the opportunity, DO IT. You're set at QB for a decade or longer.

BroncoJoe
08-25-2011, 08:59 AM
Can we at least get through this season?

Please?

SOCALORADO.
08-25-2011, 09:11 AM
Everyone relax, were getting him.
Elway just text' me.

"Slammin a 3x expresso shot, gettin Luck next year!"

Nomad
08-25-2011, 11:29 AM
For what you guys are saying he is worth....Luck better shit Lombardi's from the get-go!

Lancane
08-25-2011, 12:18 PM
For what you guys are saying he is worth....Luck better shit Lombardi's from the get-go!

No but it's far easier to shit Lombardi's with an elite or franchise capable quarterback then squandering project, journeyman or even just your average run-of-the-mill quarterback.

;)

Nomad
08-25-2011, 12:27 PM
No but it's far easier to shit Lombardi's with an elite or franchise capable quarterback then squandering project, journeyman or even just your average run-of-the-mill quarterback.

;)

I understand the guy may take the farm to get but I don't know if giving up a whole draft plus some of another is worth it.

Joe, speculating is all in fun.....you need to relax! Let the season start then people will be breaking down film and giving their breakdowns of the game for your reading enjoyment!:D

Lancane
08-25-2011, 01:05 PM
I understand the guy may take the farm to get but I don't know if giving up a whole draft plus some of another is worth it.

Joe, speculating is all in fun.....you need to relax! Let the season start then people will be breaking down film and giving their breakdowns of the game for your reading enjoyment!:D

I never said it was worth it, I've continually said that Barkley, Jones or possibly someone else is just as likely.

My comment was actually a joke Nomad, because I was laughing at what you stated about he better shit Lombardi's!
;)

Nomad
08-25-2011, 01:07 PM
I never said it was worth it, I've continually said that Barkley, Jones or possibly someone else is just as likely.

My comment was actually a joke Nomad, because I was laughing at what you stated about he better shit Lombardi's!
;)

Yeah, that one went over my head!:lol:

atwater27
08-25-2011, 06:37 PM
Remember when Mike Ditka traded all of his picks and then some to draft Ricky Williams? I don't even think that would be enough to get the number one pick next year to get Luck.

All I remember is this...

http://www.totalprosports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/r-willaims-wedding-dress1.jpg

sneakers
08-25-2011, 09:06 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/29/AbandonThread.gif