Fox to Tebow: F U

[Skacorica]

I think that pretty much sums up the situation.

I would look for Tebow to be on his way out of Denver soon. 9 mins of playing time, with third stringers, and calling planned runs. He's either trying to tell Tebow "You will not be a QB", has something against him, is planning on getting rid of him, or is giving the vast majority of fans the middle finger.

[Northman]

Its sad that Tebow isnt progressing like i thought he would. But, losing Tebow wont hurt me personally as much as it was losing Cutler. Jay had already shown progression whereas Tebow just isnt doing the things necessary to shine for the coaching staff. Im not totally writing him off for his future as a QB but i do think his days in Denver are done. IMO

[broncobryce]

I think that pretty much sums up the situation.

I would look for Tebow to be on his way out of Denver soon. 9 mins of playing time, with third stringers, and calling planned runs. He's either trying to tell Tebow "You will not be a QB", has something against him, is planning on getting rid of him, or is giving the vast majority of fans the middle finger.

I think he will be 2nd string next week. HOPEFULLY he's giving each guy a shot at second. But I did find it odd he gave Quinn first string O-line for awhile.

The fact they called it an "open competition" though is a joke.

[Skacorica]

Its sad that Tebow isnt progressing like i thought he would. But, losing Tebow wont hurt me personally as much as it was losing Cutler. Jay had already shown progression whereas Tebow just isnt doing the things necessary to shine for the coaching staff. Im not totally writing him off for his future as a QB but i do think his days in Denver are done. IMO

How do we even know what his progress is? His last preseason playing time he looked good, and was given none today. Either way, I agree, the coach obviously does not like him at all so that most likely is that.

[shank]

maybe it's a motivational move.

but not even giving him a chance seems like a wasted opportunity to see if he's progressing against live competition...

[DenBronx]

So should I go ahead and sell my Tebow jersey?


Buy low....sell low before it gets lower??

[Tned]

maybe it's a motivational move.

but not even giving him a chance seems like a wasted opportunity to see if he's progressing against live competition...

Hopefully, next week he will have most of the third and part of the 4th quarter.

[broncoFan!]

My faith in Fox's ability to determine QB's begins with Jake Delhomme. :coffee:

[broncobryce]

So should I go ahead and sell my Tebow jersey?


Buy low....sell low before it gets lower??

Don't abandon ship yet. He's still a "work in progress"

[Northman]

My faith in Fox's ability to determine QB's begins with Jake Delhomme. :coffee:

Well, he did get to a SB with him. :lol:

[DenBronx]

Its sad that Tebow isnt progressing like i thought he would. But, losing Tebow wont hurt me personally as much as it was losing Cutler. Jay had already shown progression whereas Tebow just isnt doing the things necessary to shine for the coaching staff. Im not totally writing him off for his future as a QB but i do think his days in Denver are done. IMO


I still dont sleep good at night.


Losing Cutler and getting McD = 59-14

[BroncoBowlby 88]

its to soon to judge over one pre-season game. they need to see both Quinn and Tebow in extensive play. i bet next game Tebow gets most of the snaps. its PRE-season EFX is just getting the whole picture on the talent they have. wait and see.

[underrated29]

This thread is fail....

[DenBronx]

Don't abandon ship yet. He's still a "work in progress"

One bad injury to a team this preseason and someone will come knocking on our door for Quinn or Tebow.

I'm more of a believer in Tebow than Quinn. A 5th and an average DT for Quinn sounds nice.

[broncoFan!]

This thread is fail....

This thread is dividing by 0. I'm pretty sure after that catastrophic Jay Cutler debacle trade, Denver will be wary of trading any and all QB's. Just my :2cents:

[DenBronx]

This thread is dividing by 0. I'm pretty sure after that catastrophic Jay Cutler debacle trade, Denver will be wary of trading any and all QB's. Just my :2cents:

No, we already got rid of the idiot who traded Cutler. So I'm sure EFX will pull the trigger on their guy next year.

[red98]

This thread is dividing by 0. I'm pretty sure after that catastrophic Jay Cutler debacle trade, Denver will be wary of trading any and all QB's. Just my :2cents:

You are probably right.

But just in case who wants to start the "What should we trade Tebow for if we trade him" thread?

[stway]

He's either trying to tell Tebow "You will not be a QB", has something against him, is planning on getting rid of him, or is giving the vast majority of fans the middle finger.

Or maybe it is not "something against him", maybe it's because Tebow has shown no sign of capable of playing the QB position in the NFL. For Pete's sake, even V Young is a better passer than him.

And I doubt your Tebow fans are "the vast majority". Making louder noises doesn't mean you are the majority. Let's face it, if Fox gets the defense fixed, this team has a good chance to make playoffs.

The real question for Tebow might be, will he be willing to try out other positions, or follow Eric Crouch?

[sneakers]

It is just the 2nd preseason game.....relax.

[Agent of Orange]

Or maybe it is not "something against him", maybe it's because Tebow has shown no sign of capable of playing the QB position in the NFL. For Pete's sake, even V Young is a better passer than him.

And I doubt your Tebow fans are "the vast majority". Making louder noises doesn't mean you are the majority. Let's face it, if Fox gets the defense fixed, this team has a good chance to make playoffs.

The real question for Tebow might be, will he be willing to try out other positions, or follow Eric Crouch?

Orton had a career year last year and his QB Rating was only 5 pts higher than Tebow as a rookie. And that doesnt even include the rushing yards and red zone production that Tebow brings.

This would have been valid maybe in preseason last year but its already been voided.

[hamrob]

Well, he did get to a SB with him. :lol:With a defense....unfortunately not as good as the Ravens.

Dilfer better the Delhomme

[Northman]

With a defense....unfortunately not as good as the Ravens.

Dilfer better the Delhomme

I dont care how its done as long as we get there.

[DenBronx]

It is just the 2nd preseason game.....relax.

we will also hear this,

we're only half way through the season....relax.

[BroncoWave]

I think it's a joke that Quinn got to play behind the first team o-line but Tebow didn't last week. Like I said in the game thread, I don't want to say Fox is setting Tebow up to fail, but the first two games sure aren't encouraging.

[Dzone]

Well, it hasnt turned out as well as we had all hoped with Tebow. Im still hoping he becomes the leader of this team, but if we are winning with Orton or Quinn, then thats great. This team is a lot better than people have been prognosticating..That pass rush was killing buffalo..amongst other things.

[Ziggy]

Orton will likely be the only one to get a lot of playing time next week. The starters usually go 3 quarters in the 3rd preseason game. Quinn has earned his way up to the 2nd team with both his play in practice, and the first preseason game. That doesn't mean that it can't change between now and the regular season.

[RebelRocker]

I think that pretty much sums up the situation.

I would look for Tebow to be on his way out of Denver soon. 9 mins of playing time, with third stringers, and calling planned runs. He's either trying to tell Tebow "You will not be a QB", has something against him, is planning on getting rid of him, or is giving the vast majority of fans the middle finger.


You do realize he was put in the #3 QB spot for a reason, right?

HE'S NOT PLAYING OR PRACTICING WELL! I'm sick of people making the lamest excuses for him. What's happening to him is totally fair and unfortunately for Tim, this stint in Denver mine as well be a learning experience as far as how you deal with the mass media.

Don't put yourself out there through ads, books, tv shows, etc and give the public a false sense that you can be a great QB in this league, RIGHT NOW.

Now the rest of the country is expecting you to be "the guy" here in Denver and now you just look stupid because you're obviously struggling.


Is it his fault he lost an off-season with the coaches? Absolutely not.

He claims that he worked everyday to "improve himself", but the real questions is, what did he work ON???

Adding more bulk to his frame(which will just screw up his mechanics even more?) or working on his footwork and such?

Everybody made a big spoof over the bicep pic of Tebow while he was golfing a few months back. I thought it was disturbing. I don't want my potential franchise QB to be a powerlifter, I want him to be a good QB!

While Tebow was busy doing commercials, interviews and writing a book, Quinn hired an offensive coordinator to break down film of him while he worked tirelessly with his teammates in Denver and elsewhere. He had plenty of opportunities to take the initiative and do what Quinn did, but he didn't.


I think Tim can be a good QB in this league one day, but I am a fan that goes with his gut feeling, and my feeling tells me that he won't be with this team to see that through.

[horsepig]

Tebow is actually still a frikkin rookie. IMHO, he will make it in the NFL. Orton has looked pretty damned good, but we've seen his stchick before. I just cannot see Orto leading anybody to the promised land.

I really don't see Quinn doing it either, although he does at least possess some athleticism and a pretty good arm. Get his head straight and who knoiws?

I still think Tebow is the ultimate answer, at least on this roster.

[Dzone]

Tebow has known that he must win the job in practice and games, not just games. So, in that respect, practice is just as big for him as games. He has to rise to the occasion in both. So far, Quinn and Orton have been doing that.

[claymore]

I think the fans need to come to grips with the fact that Tebow is the worst QB on the team.

Our QB's suck, so that should tell them alot.

[MileHiWildcat]

They might as well get rid of Tebow now. This team has no vision. Tebow will win a Superbowl for a team with some cajones.

FYI - John Fox is not taking this team ANYWHERE. He makes McDaniels look smart.

[LTC Pain]

They might as well get rid of Tebow now. This team has no vision. Tebow will win a Superbowl for a team with some cajones.

FYI - John Fox is not taking this team ANYWHERE. He makes McDaniels look smart.

How many threads are you going to spam this same post with??? :confused:

[Dzone]

Lmao

[claymore]

They might as well get rid of Tebow now. This team has no vision. Tebow will win a Superbowl for a team with some cajones.

FYI - John Fox is not taking this team ANYWHERE. He makes McDaniels look smart.

I will be shocked if Tebow is in the NFL in 5 years. He needs to change positions.

[CoachChaz]

Quinn is better than both.

[Dzone]

Im afraid Tebow might be going down the same road as Chris Weinke, Gino Torretta, etc etc etc...I hope not, but it is a possibility.

[Dzone]

They might as well get rid of Tebow now. This team has no vision. Tebow will win a Superbowl for a team with some cajones.

FYI - John Fox is not taking this team ANYWHERE. He makes McDaniels look smart.

Face it, Tebow is finished. His career is over. He will be bagging groceries before you are old enough to drive. I think the Broncos franchise should keep him around. He has all the intangibles you look for in a good equipment manager.

[shank]

i liked JR more than i like MHWC.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

The only "F U" from Fox I'm looking forward to right now is when Fox puts Tebow in with the 1st string next week and all the fair-weather & Tebow hater fans are going "WTF"

Seriously, it's week two of preseason... Fox will do whatever he wants if it's in the best interest of the team. Thread fail...

[gregbroncs]

Am I the only one that thinks that Quinn should be given his shot at starter and that Tebow is far and away the worst of our 3 qb's?

[MOtorboat]

Am I the only one that thinks that Quinn should be given his shot at starter and that Tebow is far and away the worst of our 3 qb's?

No. You are not.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Am I the only one that thinks that Quinn should be given his shot at starter and that Tebow is far and away the worst of our 3 qb's?

I agree with giving Quinn a fair shot but would qualify the Tebow comment with the asterisk of him being a known project who should be treated accordingly...

[Tned]

Am I the only one that thinks that Quinn should be given his shot at starter and that Tebow is far and away the worst of our 3 qb's?

He still has a lot to show before I would be willing to talk starter. He looked solid, but not great last night. Had a couple near picks. Seems to be the story with him, some good throws some real bad ones.

[CoachChaz]

He still has a lot to show before I would be willing to talk starter. He looked solid, but not great last night. Had a couple near picks. Seems to be the story with him, some good throws some real bad ones.

Given time with a solid team, he will be fine. Break down the passes of even some of the best QB's in the league at the same discression as you break down the play of YOUR teams QB's and you'll see the difference between mediocre and elite is not quite as far as you'd think.

By "you", I mean the casual fan

[gregbroncs]

I agree with giving Quinn a fair shot but would qualify the Tebow comment with the asterisk of him being a known project who should be treated accordingly...

I agree he's a project but as of right now he's nowhere near where I want to see even a backup QB. His throws are late and off target. He does not seem to read the field and he just does not look good in the pocket.

[Tned]

Given time with a solid team, he will be fine. Break down the passes of even some of the best QB's in the league at the same discression as you break down the play of YOUR teams QB's and you'll see the difference between mediocre and elite is not quite as far as you'd think.

By "you", I mean the casual fan

I understand and agree. Same reason I'm not closed to the idea. I think in many ways he's a better option than Orton, but I'm not ready to commit yet.

[Dzone]

If this team gets off to a good start, Bronco fans will get behind Orton. His connection with Brandon Loyd could convert a lot of 3rd downs.
Like Alfred Williams said last night during the telecast , they might be the best qb-wr combo in the game. That might be stretching it a little, but...There are a lot of starting qbs that are a lot worse than Kyle Orton.

Interesting denver post poll this morning :Who should be the #2 quarterback? Quinn -56% Tebow - 31%

Ther

[SpringsBroncoFan]

I agree he's a project but as of right now he's nowhere near where I want to see even a backup QB. His throws are late and off target. He does not seem to read the field and he just does not look good in the pocket.

Don't hate him because he's a big guy who never had to develop a 6th sense like most QB's because big guys are trying to kill you.

I don't know if he'll ever develop timing & awareness but at least Quinn is showing he belongs so we have the year to continue his development anyway...

[Northman]

i liked JR more than i like MHWC.

I dont. At least MHWC doesnt pretend to be a Broncos fan. :lol:

[Northman]

He still has a lot to show before I would be willing to talk starter. He looked solid, but not great last night. Had a couple near picks. Seems to be the story with him, some good throws some real bad ones.


Yea, lets not get crazy. Quinn has a lot of work to do himself and that coming with a couple of years starting for the Brownies. He was traded away for a reason.

[Mike]

If this team gets off to a good start, Bronco fans will get behind Orton. His connection with Brandon Loyd could convert a lot of 3rd downs.
Like Alfred Williams said last night during the telecast , they might be the best qb-wr combo in the game. That might be stretching it a little, but...There are a lot of starting qbs that are a lot worse than Kyle Orton.

Interesting denver post poll this morning :Who should be the #2 quarterback? Quinn -56% Tebow - 31%

Ther

At this point I am entirely indifferent as to who starts at the QB position for Denver. However, riding home last night I found how much the local media propping up Orton AND Quinn and deriding Tebow kind of odd. I can't say I have seen someone's bandwagon emptied so quickly. Very odd, especially considering Tebow honestly hasn't gotten much of a real chance so far this year.

I wondered how much of Tebow's popularity downfall with the media has come from his followers dedication to him?

[Dzone]

I dont. At least MHWC doesnt pretend to be a Broncos fan. :lol:
I agree. MHWC is funny...That other dude was just pissed off all the time. I like MHWC...I like seeing his or her posts and the reaction it gets. LOL...Its funny as hell

[TX_Broncos Fan]

I think that pretty much sums up the situation.

I would look for Tebow to be on his way out of Denver soon. 9 mins of playing time, with third stringers, and calling planned runs. He's either trying to tell Tebow "You will not be a QB", has something against him, is planning on getting rid of him, or is giving the vast majority of fans the middle finger.

I would agree with all that, and let's keep in mind that if fans continue to BOO whenever they see Quinn, Denver is going to have to get rid of one of them, and I think Fox is somehow committed to seeing what he has in Quinn and already has Tebow slotted. For it to be successful with Tebow, he has to be all in and committed to running offense suited to Tebows abilities. He can't take the offense as it is currently run and expect Tebow to succeed. However, it's possible that Fox needs to find out if this team can be successful with either Orton or Quinn, and if not, maybe by next year he'll realize he needs to change his style and commit to Tebow. Tebow has time. He can sit and watch Orton and Quinn play themselves out of Denver and then he will get his shot. The only other possibility is that Denver is successful with Orton or Quinn, and I would welcome a little success in Denver these days. Besides, if Orton plays well this season, Quinn will never see the field, Tebow might get some plays in goal line situations again, and Quinn will probably be gone next year. And Orton will probably be gone considering what Denver might have to pay to keep him if he is that good this year. Then what? Orton could play Tebow right into a starting job, because if he can win this year, he will play Denver out of the Andrew Luck sweepstakes, keep Quinn off of the field, and thus out of Denver, and then will probably leave himself.

[Agent of Orange]

Am I the only one that thinks that Quinn should be given his shot at starter and that Tebow is far and away the worst of our 3 qb's?

No. It's been brought up before that this notion of a "competition" has been a farce.

It's like Orton doesnt play well enough in games to dismiss Quinn's strong showings in practice. Plus Tebow is obviously a better during the games than he is at practice.

But hey, you have a locker room full of underachieving vets that have too much sway and they like Orton.

[Agent of Orange]

If this team gets off to a good start, Bronco fans will get behind Orton. His connection with Brandon Loyd could convert a lot of 3rd downs.
Like Alfred Williams said last night during the telecast , they might be the best qb-wr combo in the game. That might be stretching it a little, but...There are a lot of starting qbs that are a lot worse than Kyle Orton.

Interesting denver post poll this morning :Who should be the #2 quarterback? Quinn -56% Tebow - 31%

Ther

The poll results reflect that 69% of the people want Tebow to start.

[Northman]

Maybe Tebow should do what Rudy did and pray harder.

[Dzone]

The poll results reflect that 69% of the people want Tebow to start.

Is that from a poll after last nights game?
I think at the start of the year, it was like 95% wanting Tebow to start.
If we beat Oakland with Orton, then Tebow numbers are going to go way down. Thats just the way it is. Its sports. Fans want wins. Winning changes everything. I still like Tebow, but winning is all that matters.

[HammeredOut]

Im likeing Quinnville. He looks like a different player all together this season. Quinn, knows that this is last chance Hotel for him, so in different ways, us as fans shouldn't have counted him out. He was, a highly touted QB coming out of the draft. I wouldn't put it past Quinn, to even be a starter at some point in this season, if Orton plays bad, by not keeping the team in the upper echlon in Points per game. If the defense is, and was, like has been last season. Its hard to put a gauge on Orton. I do, know that, Orton is a hell of alot better QB then a Mark Sanchaz, and if Sanchaz can do it with a great defense, and mediocure offense. I believe Orton could be great game manager like so.

Tim Tebow, as I have said in the past, and continue to tell fans. His days as an NFL QB maybe numbered, and he may have to find his niche' as an NFL H-Back, or TE. A player who can pull a pass down in the flat, who can plow down CBs, and Safteys, with the odd linebacker, just like College.. If you look at his run option sweep. He was getting the match ups to make positive gains.. The NFL coaching should look at this Tebow option, and consider letting him make plays with his feet. Who knows if we have another poor boy "Payton Hillis" on our hands. The kid has the power, no doubt.

[elsid13]

I love how the Tebownuts react when everyone doesn't act like Tebow should already have a bust in HOF.

[jhildebrand]

At this point I am entirely indifferent as to who starts at the QB position for Denver. However, riding home last night I found how much the local media propping up Orton AND Quinn and deriding Tebow kind of odd. I can't say I have seen someone's bandwagon emptied so quickly. Very odd, especially considering Tebow honestly hasn't gotten much of a real chance so far this year.

I wondered how much of Tebow's popularity downfall with the media has come from his followers dedication to him?

Excellent post.

Quinn's INT in the RZ was less than stellar. People gloss over it because it was a PS game and we were ahead by so much. I find it to be representative of his decision making and still thinking he can force throws. I hoped that would have been coached out of him by now.

As for calling this an OPEN competition, it has been anything but.

I am also surprised they chose to put Adam Weber in and get film on him. I think that says more about Tebow possibly being done more than anything!

[Agent of Orange]

At this point I am entirely indifferent as to who starts at the QB position for Denver. However, riding home last night I found how much the local media propping up Orton AND Quinn and deriding Tebow kind of odd. I can't say I have seen someone's bandwagon emptied so quickly. Very odd, especially considering Tebow honestly hasn't gotten much of a real chance so far this year.

I wondered how much of Tebow's popularity downfall with the media has come from his followers dedication to him?

I'm not indifferent. I'm at a point where I hate Orton and nothing will change that. So, I'd rather focus on things like the running game and defense. I'd rather just avoid talking about that chicken shit, Orton.

[Bugs Baloney]

I think that pretty much sums up the situation.

I would look for Tebow to be on his way out of Denver soon. 9 mins of playing time, with third stringers, and calling planned runs. He's either trying to tell Tebow "You will not be a QB", has something against him, is planning on getting rid of him, or is giving the vast majority of fans the middle finger.

Well i'm as big of a Tebow fan as anyone, but I have eyes too.
Orton looked great... period, and I doubt Fox wears a blindfold at camp.
You're making it out to seem as if there is no such thing as practice evaluation.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I did not want to start a new thread - so guess this fits here as well as anywhere else:

from article:


Head coach John Fox said he will make no declaration of the team’s quarterback hierarchy, especially at the No. 2 spot. Fox said that it was “fitting” for Quinn to be the second quarterback in the game Saturday because Tebow was second last week.

full article - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/08/20/tebow-still-a-competition/9021/

[Northman]

Im just wondering when he is going to make Quinn or Tebow the first.....

[Bugs Baloney]

I did not want to start a new thread - so guess this fits here as well as anywhere else:

from article:



full article - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/08/20/tebow-still-a-competition/9021/

^this post^

[BroncoStud]

At this point I am entirely indifferent as to who starts at the QB position for Denver. However, riding home last night I found how much the local media propping up Orton AND Quinn and deriding Tebow kind of odd. I can't say I have seen someone's bandwagon emptied so quickly. Very odd, especially considering Tebow honestly hasn't gotten much of a real chance so far this year.

I wondered how much of Tebow's popularity downfall with the media has come from his followers dedication to him?

No kidding. The same people who were giddy as hell that Orton was going to be traded are now his most ardent supporters. People are sheep. If the media props up Orton they will eat it up and swallow it whole. Orton played this way LAST PRESEASON as well, he was impressive in exhibitions. He played very well in some regular season games as well, both years here.

The problem is that Orton fails when we most need him to succeed because he lacks the ability to be elite and overcome his deficiencies.

The truly great part of watching thes fans and media destroy Tebow and prop up Orton/Quinn is that if Denver struggles early this year, which is highly possible if not probable, Orton will once again be a stooge and Tebow will once again be a potential savior.

Oh how I long for the days when this team had a QB and only needed to fix the defense. Josh really did a number on us and now he's doing a number on the Rams and trying his best to get Bradford killed in his high school offense.

This whole QB situation is a bad joke and the punchline is all of us. Mark my words, Orton is still Orton, and hopefully John ends this issue by drafting a young QB in the draft next year and we roll with him.

By the way, Orton is a free agent, wants teams bidding for him, and is in a contract year, so all of you who just 1 month ago were bashing depressed when Orton wasn't traded and now are suddenly slobbing his knob need to remember one tiny detail, he ain't gonna be here next year and we are stuck with a WORSE situation than we have this year, all thanks to this year. It's absurd how fickle people can be, explains a lot about why we live in a bankrupt nation with elected officials that couldn't legislate their way out of wet paperbags yet sheep continue to vote for them.

:elefant:

[Tned]

Excellent post.

Quinn's INT in the RZ was less than stellar. People gloss over it because it was a PS game and we were ahead by so much. I find it to be representative of his decision making and still thinking he can force throws. I hoped that would have been coached out of him by now.

As for calling this an OPEN competition, it has been anything but.

I am also surprised they chose to put Adam Weber in and get film on him. I think that says more about Tebow possibly being done more than anything!

Putting Weber in was simply a matter of the game being over and them calling nothing more than handoffs.

[CoachChaz]

At this point I am entirely indifferent as to who starts at the QB position for Denver. However, riding home last night I found how much the local media propping up Orton AND Quinn and deriding Tebow kind of odd. I can't say I have seen someone's bandwagon emptied so quickly. Very odd, especially considering Tebow honestly hasn't gotten much of a real chance so far this year.

I wondered how much of Tebow's popularity downfall with the media has come from his followers dedication to him?

Excellent post.

Quinn's INT in the RZ was less than stellar. People gloss over it because it was a PS game and we were ahead by so much. I find it to be representative of his decision making and still thinking he can force throws. I hoped that would have been coached out of him by now.

As for calling this an OPEN competition, it has been anything but.

I am also surprised they chose to put Adam Weber in and get film on him. I think that says more about Tebow possibly being done more than anything!

How many times have we seen Superstar QBs make the same mistake? Champ has a playoff memory he can tell you about.

Was it a great decision? No. was it something that completely defines his abilities? Definitely not.

[jhildebrand]

How many times have we seen Superstar QBs make the same mistake? Champ has a playoff memory he can tell you about.

Was it a great decision? No. was it something that completely defines his abilities? Definitely not.

I am not saying it defines his abilities. In fact, I think I said the opposite. I think I said it defines his weakness and one I would think would have been coached out of him by now-the thought that he can FORCE it based on arm strength. I dont care who your are in the NFL. The days of just forcing it based on ARM STRENGTH left with Elway. As much as I don't like McD the coach, I think the guy can coach QB's and I would think he would have got some of that out of Quinn.

I simply mention it because people are quick to highlight what they think is GOOD of Orton and QUINN and then, given a similar play with Tebow, insist it was something different. People after Dallas made excuses for Orton being 2 of 6 mentioning dropped passes but insisting Tebow's deep throw would have been better if it were Orton. That's all. I think we change the argument.

Finally, comparing Mcgee to champ is just downright silly.

[vandammage13]

I will be shocked if Tebow is in the NFL in 5 years. He needs to change positions.

If Brad Smith can get a 4 year/15million deal to be a wildcat specialist, then there is a place for Tebow.

Even if the worst case scenario happens for him where he doesn't develop into a full time starting QB, he still brings great value to a team as a short-yardage/goaline QB.

I mean the guy was pretty much a lock to score on the goaline as a rookie.

He will not be out of the league...He still may make it as a starter (I mean he was projected as a 2-3 year project wasn't he?)

Give the guy some time...At worst he'll be a valuable goaline asset.

[Npba900]

Its sad that Tebow isnt progressing like i thought he would. But, losing Tebow wont hurt me personally as much as it was losing Cutler. Jay had already shown progression whereas Tebow just isnt doing the things necessary to shine for the coaching staff. Im not totally writing him off for his future as a QB but i do think his days in Denver are done. IMO

Agreed. If Denver can get rid of Cutler.....then surely the Broncos can get rid of Tebow.

[Ravage!!!]

How is it that some can't see that the "competition" for your spot on the team is NOT done during the pre-season games, but at practice??? You HAVE to earn your spots in practice to get onto the field, period.

I promise you, PROMISE you, that the coaches and staff can see a LOT MORE during practice than they can during the pre-season games. They can tell who is the better player by what they do day-in and day-out. Pre-season games are only going to win you a spot if you are neck-n-neck with the other guy. Right now, Tebow isn't.

It WAS an open competition between the QBs, and Tebow had the inside lane on all of them....ESPECIALLY Quinn... and right now has shown nothing but the ability to fall further and further back.

Next week I'm betting Tebow will get more time with the 2nd string so that those of you feel he's being "set up to fail" (the most absurd thing I've heard) can settle your mind and realize that Tebow is failing on his own.

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed. If Denver can get rid of Cutler.....then surely the Broncos can get rid of Tebow.

Other than the fact that here were many team looking to trade for Cutler.

[Ravage!!!]

I dont care who your are in the NFL. The days of just forcing it based on ARM STRENGTH left with Elway.

Come on jhil.. thats not true. QBs force balls into tight windows ALLLLLL the time. Every game of every week. Why? Because in the NFL thats what you get, tight windows. Thats why the coaches prefer strong armed QBs. Because everyone knows that there are times you have to put the all into tight windows and the ball has to get there before the defender does. Stronger arms make that more realistic. Thats an everyday, every game, thing. It most certainly is NOT "dead" in the least.

[Npba900]

If Brad Smith can get a 4 year/15million deal to be a wildcat specialist, then there is a place for Tebow.

Even if the worst case scenario happens for him where he doesn't develop into a full time starting QB, he still brings great value to a team as a short-yardage/goaline QB.

I mean the guy was pretty much a lock to score on the goaline as a rookie.

He will not be out of the league...He still may make it as a starter (I mean he was projected as a 2-3 year project wasn't he?)

Give the guy some time...At worst he'll be a valuable goaline asset.

Tebow needs to take in the reality and realize that the 2011 season is a wash! Should Orton get injured, Quinn will get the call. Tebow still has an opportunity in 2012 to at least work his back to a solid 2nd string QB on the depth chart.

If he can't become 2nd string next year, Tim needs to seriously read the writing on the wall and consider a position move probably to TE is my assumption. Now we are talking Tebow entering into his 4th season (2013) and he's trying to make the transition to TE.

If i were Tebow, I'd be contemplating the move to TE right now and by the end of 011 season, call a meeting with EFX and simple say "I want to make a position change" to TE and go from there. This way entering his 3rd season, Tim can put all his hard work, perseverance, and love for the game into learning how to catch!

[SOCALORADO.]

How is it that some can't see that the "competition" for your spot on the team is NOT done during the pre-season games, but at practice??? You HAVE to earn your spots in practice to get onto the field, period.

I promise you, PROMISE you, that the coaches and staff can see a LOT MORE during practice than they can during the pre-season games. They can tell who is the better player by what they do day-in and day-out. Pre-season games are only going to win you a spot if you are neck-n-neck with the other guy. Right now, Tebow isn't.

It WAS an open competition between the QBs, and Tebow had the inside lane on all of them....ESPECIALLY Quinn... and right now has shown nothing but the ability to fall further and further back.

Next week I'm betting Tebow will get more time with the 2nd string so that those of you feel he's being "set up to fail" (the most absurd thing I've heard) can settle your mind and realize that Tebow is failing on his own.

Exactly. The reason Quinn was #2 is because he has been the standout player of the entire training camp. ( i guess Orange Julius has looked fantastic too.) Meanwhile according to camp reports, TT has never improved and only looked mediocre at best, with a highlight here or there.
This whole tebow mess needs to be put to bed.

[vandammage13]

I thought Fox said he wanted a gamer....

He'll find out soon enough what Orton is.

It's gonna be another depressing season, but its better than no football at all I suppose.

[Ravage!!!]

I thought Fox said he wanted a gamer....

He'll find out soon enough what Orton is.

It's gonna be another depressing season, but its better than no football at all I suppose.

Yes, people took this quote as to mean "Tebow"....b ut the truth is he was just speaking. People wanted to twist those words to mean what they wanted it to mean.

The truth is, if you can't show in practice that you BELONG in the starting lineup, then you aren't going to get into the starting lineup. Thats the way it is for EVERY position.

Why would anyone believe that if Tebow doesn't know the calls, doesn't know the reads, and can't find the 2nd WR in practice that he'll suddenly change during games.... is beyond me. I just don't have blind "faith" in anything.

[Npba900]

I thought Fox said he wanted a gamer....

He'll find out soon enough what Orton is.

It's gonna be another depressing season, but its better than no football at all I suppose.

Perhaps Fox will draft a QB who is Gamer in 2012 and that QB will be mechanically and fundamentally sound and knows how to play from the pocket. And of course this QB will be able to throw accurately with a strong arm. Those are the necessary attributes for QB's who are drafted No.1 must already have in their arsenal and experience.

[SOCALORADO.]

Yes, people took this quote as to mean "Tebow"....b ut the truth is he was just speaking. People wanted to twist those words to mean what they wanted it to mean.

The truth is, if you can't show in practice that you BELONG in the starting lineup, then you aren't going to get into the starting lineup. Thats the way it is for EVERY position.

Why would anyone believe that if Tebow doesn't know the calls, doesn't know the reads, and can't find the 2nd WR in practice that he'll suddenly change during games.... is beyond me. I just don't have blind "faith" in anything.

No,No Rav you dont understand.
Tebow is a gamer in that he can do the same stuff he did at FLA in the NFL!
The entire FO believes that because TT can run around, that he gives them the best chance to win. Nevermind that he cant run half the playbook, and he cant take snaps from under center, or make a hot read, or take a 5 step drop and then find his 2nd reciever and complete a pass to him accurately, from inside the pocket. Forget all that. Dude can ball though, weekend in the park style!

[Dzone]

))*

[vandammage13]

Yes, people took this quote as to mean "Tebow"....b ut the truth is he was just speaking. People wanted to twist those words to mean what they wanted it to mean.

The truth is, if you can't show in practice that you BELONG in the starting lineup, then you aren't going to get into the starting lineup. Thats the way it is for EVERY position.

Why would anyone believe that if Tebow doesn't know the calls, doesn't know the reads, and can't find the 2nd WR in practice that he'll suddenly change during games.... is beyond me. I just don't have blind "faith" in anything.

I agree with you that you have to at least show something in practice to warrant a chance.

However, I do think that at this point in Tebow's career that he NEEDS the freedom to run around in order to be productive. That is where he is at his best.

He doesn't get that freedom in a structured setting, and that just happens to be a setting where a QB like Orton thrives.

Tebow needs to get better at a lot of things so that he doesn't need to rely on his playmaking ability, but having said that, I still really think that Tebow's playmaking ability offers more than Orton's prototypical, yet mediocre play.

This situation really parallels that of Buffalo's Rob Johnson/Doug Flutie competition.
Johnson looked great in practice, but once the games were played he turned into Robosack.
Flutie was not a great practice guy, but he just made plays during games.

I just happen to think that Tebow can get by on his playmaking abilities (supporting evidence would be his 3 game stint last year), while gaining experience during games and 1st team practice snaps would help him get better at the basics.

Just my opinion, but I think the fact that everytime Tebow is given a chance in a game he looks better than in practice shows that he is a different beast and should be handled differently than your traditional QB.

I don't think he's ever going to get better by taking limited 2nd and 3rd team snaps. They need to go all in with this guy and cut their losses if he fails, rather than doing this half-assed/non-commital approach.

Orton's already had his chance(s), and he's failed...Move on from this non-playoff QB. Hell, at least give Quinn a shot if not Tebow.

[Npba900]

No,No Rav you dont understand.
Tebow is a gamer in that he can do the same stuff he did at FLA in the NFL!
The entire FO believes that because TT can run around, that he gives them the best chance to win. Nevermind that he cant run half the playbook, and he cant take snaps from under center, or make a hot read, or take a 5 step drop and then find his 2nd reciever and complete a pass to him accurately, from inside the pocket. Forget all that. Dude can ball though, weekend in the park style!

Yep! Tebow is quite the Gamer! Screw the play book. Just draw up plays in the sand and Captain Comeback can make it happen!!!! Just Let Tebow call the shots! "Ten-18.....run 84...red-dog...mike 13...hut...hut".....Touch down Baby!!!! See how simple it is. Play book be damned.

[vandammage13]

No,No Rav you dont understand.
Tebow is a gamer in that he can do the same stuff he did at FLA in the NFL!
The entire FO believes that because TT can run around, that he gives them the best chance to win. Nevermind that he cant run half the playbook, and he cant take snaps from under center, or make a hot read, or take a 5 step drop and then find his 2nd reciever and complete a pass to him accurately, from inside the pocket. Forget all that. Dude can ball though, weekend in the park style!

Nevermind the fact that he averaged 27 ppg as a rookie....

Wow...It is surprising that a rookie knew less of the playbook than a 6 year vet, yet still put up more points.

I'm sure he'll never be able to learn that playbook though, or take snaps from under center, or any of those things....He couldn't do it his first three games so he probably never will.... :coffee:

[SOCALORADO.]

Nevermind the fact that he averaged 27 ppg as a rookie....

Wow...It is surprising that a rookie knew less of the playbook than a 6 year vet, yet still put up more points.

I'm sure he'll never be able to learn that playbook though, or take snaps from under center, or any of those things....He couldn't do it his first three games so he probably never will.... :coffee:


Clearly the FO and EFX are mesmerized by those stats in 3 meaningless games against crap (yeah SD was crap) to close out the season as well!

[vandammage13]

Clearly the FO and EFX are mesmerized by those stats in 3 meaningless games against crap (yeah SD was crap) to close out the season as well!

Meaningless maybe for us, but the Raiders and Chargers were battling for playoff possiblilities, and to call a division rivalry game meaningless is misguided at best.

Anyway, Tebow aside....They will be far from mesmerized by Ortons play in real games, that much we are assured of.

In fact, it is mesmerizing that they can watch 50+ games of tape on this guy and feel confident enough to not just call this season what it really is...A rebuilding year.

And we're gonna waste it on a guy who is average and probably won't even be here next year instead of developing one of our other two QBs.

To me, my beef with this situation is less about Tebow and more about our organization having no long term plan...Very frustrating.

I would be more content using what will definitely be a rebuilding year to develop young talent rather than wasting it on a guy who is trying to build his FA stock.

[underrated29]

unless I missed a quote from the coaches table. I fully expect tebow to be running with the twos again next week, or ahead of quinn.




Its funny how only the tebow haters are saying that after quinn went ahead of him he is done. They kept their mouths shut the week before but now that quinn got a chance its set in stone...?????




What will you guys say next week or the week after when its only backups and tebow goes ahead of quinn?

[vandammage13]

unless I missed a quote from the coaches table. I fully expect tebow to be running with the twos again next week, or ahead of quinn.




Its funny how only the tebow haters are saying that after quinn went ahead of him he is done. They kept their mouths shut the week before but now that quinn got a chance its set in stone...?????




What will you guys say next week or the week after when its only backups and tebow goes ahead of quinn?

Right...Unless people think Elway is a liar, he tweeted that Quinn was going in as the 2nd QB because Tebow went in 2nd the previous week.


@johnelway: Looking forward to seeing our QBs tonight. Tim went in after Kyle last week, and Brady will go second tonight. All competing.

I guess the depth chart is set in stone and the QB competition is over, even though neither coach or Elway has said otherwise...

[SOCALORADO.]

Meaningless maybe for us, but the Raiders and Chargers were battling for playoff possiblilities, and to call a division rivalry game meaningless is misguided at best.

Anyway, Tebow aside....They will be far from mesmerized by Ortons play in real games, that much we are assured of.

In fact, it is mesmerizing that they can watch 50+ games of tape on this guy and feel confident enough to not just call this season what it really is...A rebuilding year.

And we're gonna waste it on a guy who is average and probably won't even be here next year instead of developing one of our other two QBs.

To me, my beef with this situation is less about Tebow and more about our organization having no long term plan...Very frustrating.

I would be more content using what will definitely be a rebuilding year to develop young talent rather than wasting it on a guy who is trying to build his FA stock.

Both crappy teams, SD and OAK beat DEN. Mission accomplished.
Both teams didnt make the playoffs. Both teams sucked.
Tebow couldnt beat either of them.
Your just spreading the manure around.
If the FO/EFX thought Tebow should start, he would. But he isnt cause he cant run the offense. Obviously.
If Tebow cant beat out the other 2 crappy QBS.....TEBOWS GOT PROBLEMS.
Trying to candy coat his glaring issues is just getting more and more pathetic.

[Nomad]

I'd like to see Quinn or Tebow start against the Seahawks. Orton's already earned :madgrin:the starting spot. Let's see what the other 2 QBs can do with the 1st team so WHEN Orton gets hurt during the season, we know what to expect..

[vandammage13]

Both crappy teams, SD and OAK beat DEN. Mission accomplished.
Both teams didnt make the playoffs. Both teams sucked.
Tebow couldnt beat either of them.
Your just spreading the manure around.
If the FO/EFX thought Tebow should start, he would. But he isnt cause he cant run the offense. Obviously.
If Tebow cant beat out the other 2 crappy QBS.....TEBOWS GOT PROBLEMS.
Trying to candy coat his glaring issues is just getting more and more pathetic.

Well, debating the quality of the opponents is just semantics....(They are still NFL teams afterall, in a league that Tebow by many accounts couldn't compete on).

Apparently though, I just heard, (According to some inside sources) John Fox made up his mind on Tebow before the Dallas game...

So outside of some situational Tebow packages, It doesn't look like Tebow will make a push to be the starter this year, if ever.

So I will concede in the argument that he has no shot to win the gig, but it does not mean that I think it is the right decision.

My feelings on this have less to do with what I believe Tebow CAN do, and more to do with what I KNOW Orton CAN'T.....

I could be wrong and maybe this team will flourish under Orton and Fox will prove to me why he is a coach and I'm just a fan, but I don't see it happening.

[SOCALORADO.]

Well, debating the quality of the opponents is just semantics....(They are still NFL teams afterall, in a league that Tebow by many accounts couldn't compete on).

Apparently though, I just heard, (According to some inside sources) John Fox made up his mind on Tebow before the Dallas game...

So outside of some situational Tebow packages, It doesn't look like Tebow will make a push to be the starter this year, if ever.

So I will concede in the argument that he has no shot to win the gig, but it does not mean that I think it is the right decision.

My feelings on this have less to do with what I believe Tebow CAN do, and more to do with what I KNOW Orton CAN'T.....

I could be wrong and maybe this team will flourish under Orton and Fox will prove to me why he is a coach and I'm just a fan, but I don't see it happening.

Good, so were making progress.
I too dislike Orton. But its irrelevant.
Tebow cant run the offense and EFX know this. He just cant.
I would LOVE for Tebow to be the NO.1 !! Love it!
But because Tebow, hasnt progressed, he is going to be a wildcat QB in DEN until the season ends.
And its nobodys fault but Tebows that this is happeneing. No excuses.

Next year, Orton will be gone, and Quinn will be fighting for his life with a very good rookie QB. And Tebow will be a TE or he will be gone.

[vandammage13]

Good, so were making progress.
I too dislike Orton. But its irrelevant.
Tebow cant run the offense and EFX know this. He just cant.
I would LOVE for Tebow to be the NO.1 !! Love it!
But because Tebow, hasnt progressed, he is going to be a wildcat QB in DEN until the season ends.
And its nobodys fault but Tebows that this is happeneing. No excuses.

Next year, Orton will be gone, and Quinn will be fighting for his life with a very good rookie QB. And Tebow will be a TE or he will be gone.

This is where I disagree...Just because he (in your opinion) can't run the offense doesn't mean that he won't ever be able to.

I think he can learn the nuances in time, and he brings other things to the table that cannot be quantified in practice.

[SOCALORADO.]

This is where I disagree...Just because he (in your opinion) can't run the offense doesn't mean that he won't ever be able to.

I think he can learn the nuances in time, and he brings other things to the table that cannot be quantified in practice.

OK, so how much time will it take?

[vandammage13]

OK, so how much time will it take?

No telling...Most of the "experts" said 2-3 years, so maybe he should be given 2-3 years before passing judgement.

[Lancane]

OK, so how much time will it take?

How much time do you have before you have a stroke or until you die of heart failure?

About that much time...;)

[broncobryce]

Both crappy teams, SD and OAK beat DEN. Mission accomplished.
Both teams didnt make the playoffs. Both teams sucked.
Tebow couldnt beat either of them.
Your just spreading the manure around.
If the FO/EFX thought Tebow should start, he would. But he isnt cause he cant run the offense. Obviously.
If Tebow cant beat out the other 2 crappy QBS.....TEBOWS GOT PROBLEMS.
Trying to candy coat his glaring issues is just getting more and more pathetic.

Orton couldn't beat them either. And we got SMOKED with orton under center. You were saying?

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[vandammage13]

I'll also add this....

There's no telling what this season is going to bring...

Things are looking bleak for Teebs right now, but there are a lot of things that can happen between now and the end of the year...

Injuries (which is almost a given with Orton), bad record, poor QB performance, etc..

To write Tebow off a year into his career is somewhat crazy,
and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him back in the starting role before year's end.

Then again Orton might play solid and stay healthy...we don't know.
I just wouldn't come to any conclusions yet because the season hasn't even started yet.

[broncobryce]

I'll also add this....

There's no telling what this season is going to bring...

Things are looking bleak for Teebs right now, but there are a lot of things that can happen between now and the end of the year...

Injuries (which is almost a given with Orton), bad record, poor QB performance, etc..

To write Tebow off a year into his career is somewhat crazy,
and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him back in the starting role before year's end.

Then again Orton might play solid and stay healthy...we don't know.
I just wouldn't come to any conclusions yet because the season hasn't even started yet.

Nope, his career is over after one season. At least that's what some will have you believe. People need to calm down.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Lancane]

Nope, his career is over after one season. At least that's what some will have you believe. People need to calm down.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I don't believe his career is over, just over in Denver.

[SOCALORADO.]

Orton couldn't beat them either. And we got SMOKED with orton under center. You were saying?

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I am saying that if Orton sucks, which i think we are all in agreement on, then why cant Tebow beat him out?
Why cant he beat out Quinn?
Why is Tebow struggling so bad against mediocre, career back up QBs?
Lets the excuses commence!

[SOCALORADO.]

No telling...Most of the "experts" said 2-3 years, so maybe he should be given 2-3 years before passing judgement.

2-3 years.
DEN can simply go out and draft a Pro-style QB that can run ANY offense installed day 1. Next year.
Luck, Barkley, Lindley, Landry. All of them run an NFL, Pro-Style offense, which calls for play action, 3,5,7 step drops, and bootlegs.
They are all EXCELLENT at it.
Why screw around with a project?!?!?
He clearly isnt improving, so off to TE with him, and on to the draft!
Time to take off the dress, and end this tea party.

[broncobryce]

If 7 out of 8 is struggling, I'm not sure what to say. Last game they let him throw 2 passes he completed 1. So that makes 8 out of ten.

The lockout hurt him, he is only in his second year, veterans like orton and quinn will have the advantage in practice.

These are facts. I thought tebow looked pretty good last season, he is still growing,and will get a chance eventually.

A lot of times younger qbs don't beat out the vet but they hand em the keys because they know the vet is not the answer

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Watchthemiddle]

How much time do you have before you have a stroke or until you die of heart failure?

About that much time...;)

These are the kinds of statements that drive me crazy.

Even guys that are true "stand in the pocket drop back passers" take more than 3 regular season games to be ready.

Everyone who doesn't think Tebow will ever succeed in the NFL has no basis for that claim. Its not like he has been given steady playing time over the course of more than ONE season in the league to improve.

Give me 3 years in the league and atleast 20 games under his belt during those 3 years and then evaluate him...but don't sit here and buy into all of the media bashing of what he has or has not done in practice and say he will never succeed.

Even our other 2 QB's have taken years to get to the decent playing level that they are at today....it takes more than what Tebow has been given in order to succeed.

Patience. I would hate to give up on him here only to have him go to another team and take off because he was given an opportunity.

[vandammage13]

2-3 years.
DEN can simply go out and draft a Pro-style QB that can run ANY offense installed day 1. Next year.
Luck, Barkley, Lindley, Landry. All of them run an NFL, Pro-Style offense, which calls for play action, 3,5,7 step drops, and bootlegs.
They are all EXCELLENT at it.
Why screw around with a project?!?!?
He clearly isnt improving, so off to TE with him, and on to the draft!
Time to take off the dress, and end this tea party.

If only drafting one of those guys guaranteed us success...for every guy who lived up to his billing, I can find 10 who didn't.

You never know until they play.

Ask Tampa how giving up on Steve Young worked out for them...Or Atlanta with Favre...I'm glad we didn't give up on Elway after he left brown skid marks on the field his rookie year...

[SOCALORADO.]

If 7 out of 8 is struggling, I'm not sure what to say. Last game they let him throw 2 passes he completed 1. So that makes 8 out of ten.

The lockout hurt him, he is only in his second year, veterans like orton and quinn will have the advantage in practice.

These are facts. I thought tebow looked pretty good last season, he is still growing,and will get a chance eventually.

A lot of times younger qbs don't beat out the vet but they hand em the keys because they know the vet is not the answer

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

But i thought Orton sucked!?!?
Doesnt Orton suck!?!
Quinn couldnt possibly look better than Tebow not only in camp, but in a pre season games as well!! WTH!?!?!
How could players who suck, have the advantage over the great and mighty Tebow!?!?!?
So now they dont suck, unless its helping the Tebow argument to play, but if he is regressing, well these guys are veterans and they are really good at looking good, and blah,blah,blah.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

[Lancane]

Even guys that are true "stand in the pocket drop back passers" take more than 3 regular season games to be ready.

Drew Brees (2 years), Phillip Rivers (2 years), Jay Cutler (1 year), Aaron Rodgers (3 years, though many believe it was because of Favre), Matt Cassel (3 years), Matt Ryan (0 years), Peyton Manning (0 years), Matt Schaub (3 years, mainly because Atlanta waited to trade him for so long), Eli Manning (1 year), Tom Brady (1 year), Carson Palmer (1 year), Joe Flacco (0 years), Sam Bradford (0 years), Josh Freeman (1 year), Donovan McNabb (1 year), Mark Sanchez (1 year), Ben Roethlisberger (2 years)...

I would say the numbers suggest otherwise WTM, I understand that people want to hope that he's the future, but he's not even improving...from all that's been seen and heard it's sounds even worse.

[SOCALORADO.]

If only drafting one of those guys guaranteed us success...for every guy who lived up to his billing, I can find 10 who didn't.

You never know until they play.

Ask Tampa how giving up on Steve Young worked out for them...Or Atlanta with Favre...I'm glad we didn't give up on Elway after he left brown skid marks on the field his rookie year...

Only those guys could run an NFL offense.
Tebow quite obviously cant.
Which is why hes not PROGRESSING, hes going backwards.
Not good for a guy who was supposed to overtake a career back up QB.
Why isnt he even pushing the piss poor Orton for the job!?!
Not even in the same ball park as Orton, yet according to many, he just should get the start, causes hes Tebow.

[vandammage13]

Only those guys could run an NFL offense.
Tebow quite obviously cant.
Which is why hes not PROGRESSING, hes going backwards.
Not good for a guy who was supposed to overtake a career back up QB.
Why isnt he even pushing the piss poor Orton for the job!?!
Not even in the same ball park as Orton, yet according to many, he just should get the start, causes hes Tebow.

You act as if they were able to run an NFL offense right away....

None of those guys immediately stepped in and ran an offense well.

They all proved that they had the capacity to later, but they certainly didn't start that way.

To say that Steve Young was doing anything besides running around and making plays during his Tampa days is misguided at best. He wasn't running any full playbook, just adlibbing.

He eventually grew into an MVP QB, but it took him YEARS....

Don't write him off yet, because Tebow's not going to quit , that much we know.

[Lancane]

You act as if they able to run an NFL offense right away....

None of those guys immediately stepped in and ran an offense well.

They all proved that they had the capacity to, but they certainly didn't start that way.

To say that Steve Young was doing anything besides running around and making plays during his Tampa days is misguided at best. He wasn't running any full playbook, just adlibbing.

He eventually grew into an MVP QB, but it took him YEARS....

Don't write him off yet, because Tebow's not going to quit , that much we know.

And you actually think Elway, Xanders and Fox, let alone Bowlen their boss is going to give Tebow 'Years?'...I don't for one and many others agree with that. Again, he's shown very little improvement, he can't even beat the guy who was third string last year for the backup position?

[vandammage13]

And you actually think Elway, Xanders and Fox, let alone Bowlen their boss is going to give Tebow 'Years?'...I don't for one and many others agree with that. Again, he's shown very little improvement, he can't even beat the guy who was third string last year for the backup position?

Well..the general consensus was 2-3 years...

So count with me here -

Last year = 1
This year = 2
Next year = 3

So its not as long as you're making it out to be...

[Lancane]

Well..the general consensus was 2-3 years...

So count with me here -

Last year = 1
This year = 2
Next year = 3

So its not as long as you're making it out to be...

General consensus? Who's general consensus, the fans or the scouts and coaches? A first round quarterback as I showed above should be showing strong signs of improvement within their second season. So the consensus you've reached has already been disproven by the franchise quarterbacks of this past decade.

[SOCALORADO.]

You act as if they were able to run an NFL offense right away....

None of those guys immediately stepped in and ran an offense well.

They all proved that they had the capacity to later, but they certainly didn't start that way.

To say that Steve Young was doing anything besides running around and making plays during his Tampa days is misguided at best. He wasn't running any full playbook, just adlibbing.

He eventually grew into an MVP QB, but it took him YEARS....

Don't write him off yet, because Tebow's not going to quit , that much we know.

Steve Young could run a west coast offense. He ran a hybrid withHolgren at BYU and he again ran it at SF with Holgren leter. Its why he went to SF. Because of Holgren.
Young could always throw from the pocket. Tebow cant.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

[underrated29]

Only those guys could run an NFL offense.
Tebow quite obviously cant.
Which is why hes not PROGRESSING, hes going backwards.
Not good for a guy who was supposed to overtake a career back up QB.
Why isnt he even pushing the piss poor Orton for the job!?!
Not even in the same ball park as Orton, yet according to many, he just should get the start, causes hes Tebow.




Did tebow bang your wife or something? Seriously you are taking this tebow thing to a whole new level of up the ass.


Orton does not suck. He is around the 14/15/16th best Qb in the NFL right now. He sucks when there is pressure or when the game is on the line. He is fine when he has lots of time to pick apart a team. As evidence by training camp, last year and this years pre season.

Quinn-While being in our system the same time as tebow has started at least one full year in the NFL. So he has a major leg up on him there. He was also considered pro ready out of the draft and Not a project. And while he has looked better in TC, shouldnt he?? I think anyone not butt hurt would say yes. However, he is in the battle of his life with Tebow for the #2 spot. Despite having a big advantage. He is also in a contract year.

Tebow- Has 3 games and 3 preseason games under his belt. Was not considered pro ready and WAS considered a project. Despite this, the team was going to trade orton and start Tebow. Despite that, tebow put up more yards and points then orton did. Despite that, Tebow is giving Brady Quinn and Run for his money for the #2 spot with 2 more pre season games to decide who gets it. Despite the fact, that he did not get proper coaching last year, or this year due to the lockout. Still though somehow tebow is in the running for the Number 2.



Everyone accepts this except you. Maybe you got caught up in the hype and now that he is not feel You have been let down and took it personally. Kinda like people did with Cutler. They took it personally that Cutler asked to be traded. Maybe you are taking it personally that Tebow is not starting this year. Whatever the reasons are, he is doing pretty well all things considered, especially when you remove all the hype. Now just because he is not Elway, Steve Young, in his first few starts does not mean that the FO has just given up on him like you have. And everything we have heard or seen SHOWS 100% the opposite.

So it comes back to the question- On any team, do you expect a rookie project QB with 3 starts and 3 preseason games to come in and Unseat the starting QB, who is somewhere around the 14th/15th/16th best QB in the league???? Or do you think he might need a year or two and then he can take the job?

[vandammage13]

General consensus? Who's general consensus, the fans or the scouts and coaches? A first round quarterback as I showed above should be showing strong signs of improvement within their second season. So the consensus you've reached has already been disproven by the franchise quarterbacks of this past decade.


Drew Brees (2 years), Phillip Rivers (2 years), Jay Cutler (1 year), Aaron Rodgers (3 years, though many believe it was because of Favre), Matt Cassel (3 years), Matt Ryan (0 years), Peyton Manning (0 years), Matt Schaub (3 years, mainly because Atlanta waited to trade him for so long), Eli Manning (1 year), Tom Brady (1 year), Carson Palmer (1 year), Joe Flacco (0 years), Sam Bradford (0 years), Josh Freeman (1 year), Donovan McNabb (1 year), Mark Sanchez (1 year), Ben Roethlisberger (2 years)...

I like how the guys who don't fit your criteria (Rodgers/Schaub) you were able to come up with excuses for...

By the way, Flacco and Sanchez haven't done shit other than being handed the starting job on teams that happen to be solid all the way around...

Weak...:coffee:

[LTC Pain]

Only those guys could run an NFL offense.
Tebow quite obviously cant.
Which is why hes not PROGRESSING, hes going backwards.
Not good for a guy who was supposed to overtake a career back up QB.
Why isnt he even pushing the piss poor Orton for the job!?!
Not even in the same ball park as Orton, yet according to many, he just should get the start, causes hes Tebow.

For crying out loud turn the record over so we can hear another tune! I've appreciated your posts SoCal but in regards to Tebow you have become a dripping faucet. Repeating it incessantly will only cause people to stop reading your posts.

[Lancane]

I like how the guys who don't fit your criteria (Rodgers/Schaub) you were able to come up with excuses for...

By the way, Flacco and Sanchez haven't done shit other than being handed the starting job on teams that happen to be solid all the way around...

Weak...:coffee:

Sanchez hasn't done shit? Leading his team to back-to-back AFCCG is shit! Well then I'm sorry but shit is much better then what we have. And Flacco has helped the Ravens reach the playoffs all three seasons he's been starting.

As for Rodgers and Schaub, those are facts...teams were clamoring to trade for Schaub in his second season the Falcons decided to forgo offers, much like Philadelphia did with Kolb last off-season. In regards to Rodgers, ask the Green Bay fans, Favre was on the roster and they waited and waited for him to retire but he refused to, so the team finally made a change. That's not excuses, just facts that don't play well into your theory of Tebow being the next great quarterback in Denver. You would have been better to use Young as an example, but then again...it took him nearly seven seasons to become a great pro, and I can guarantee you that Denver won't wait that long!

Want to try again or is insulting people and acting like an ass the best we can do?

:coffee:

[NorCalBronco7]

Drew Brees (2 years), Phillip Rivers (2 years), Jay Cutler (1 year), Aaron Rodgers (3 years, though many believe it was because of Favre), Matt Cassel (3 years), Matt Ryan (0 years), Peyton Manning (0 years), Matt Schaub (3 years, mainly because Atlanta waited to trade him for so long), Eli Manning (1 year), Tom Brady (1 year), Carson Palmer (1 year), Joe Flacco (0 years), Sam Bradford (0 years), Josh Freeman (1 year), Donovan McNabb (1 year), Mark Sanchez (1 year), Ben Roethlisberger (2 years)...

I would say the numbers suggest otherwise WTM, I understand that people want to hope that he's the future, but he's not even improving...from all that's been seen and heard it's sounds even worse.

Rookies never start over solid vets......never.

I somewhat get where your coming from in that Tebow is a 1st round pick and has yet to show improvement. I agree with that, but unlike any recent 1st round pick like him, he is a project in every which way.

[slim]

Sanchez hasn't done shit? Leading his team to back-to-back AFCCG is shit! Well then I'm sorry but shit is much better then what we have. And Flacco has helped the Ravens reach the playoffs all three seasons he's been starting.

As for Rodgers and Schaub, those are facts...teams were clamoring to trade for Schaub in his second season the Falcons decided to forgo offers, much like Philadelphia did with Kolb last off-season. In regards to Rodgers, ask the Green Bay fans, Favre was on the roster and they waited and waited for him to retire but he refused to, so the team finally made a change. That's not excuses, just facts that don't play well into your theory of Tebow being the next great quarterback in Denver. You would have been better to use Young as an example, but then again...it took him nearly seven seasons to become a great pro, and I can guarantee you that Denver won't wait that long!

Want to try again or is insulting people and acting like an ass the best we can do?

:coffee:

C'mon Lan, Sanchez has been a below average QB so far in his career.

[Lancane]

For crying out loud turn the record over so we can hear another tune! I've appreciated your posts SoCal but in regards to Tebow you have become a dripping faucet. Repeating it incessantly will only cause people to stop reading your posts.

Not everyone buys into Tebow LTC, recent polls have shown that the majority is near evenly split between Tebow being the future franchise quarterback or someone in the draft not yet on the roster. Some of us are not buying that Tebow is the future...so do our opinions mean less then those that do? We can not argue that we don't believe in him, the time it would take to develop him or that he's shown little improvement...but others can argue that he is the future, can debate why he should be starting and so forth? Wouldn't you consider that hypocritical at best?

;)

[vandammage13]

Steve Young could run a west coast offense. He ran a hybrid withHolgren at BYU and he again ran it at SF with Holgren leter. Its why he went to SF. Because of Holgren.
Young could always throw from the pocket. Tebow cant.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

Yeah check your history bro...Young had to develop his pocket skills.

He was nothing more than a scrambling QB while at Tampa.

Fortunately, he was able to learn under Bill Walsh and Joe Montana, so that helped him out immensely.

[Lancane]

Rookies never start over solid vets......never.

I somewhat get where your coming from in that Tebow is a 1st round pick and has yet to show improvement. I agree with that, but unlike any recent 1st round pick like him, he is a project in every which way.

Exactly, he's a first round project...nearly unheard of and his fans believe that Denver is just going to give him the time in order to develop? I just don't agree and they simply don't like it and can not prove their points with any facts.

:beer:

[NorCalBronco7]

Sanchez hasn't done shit? Leading his team to back-to-back AFCCG is shit! Well then I'm sorry but shit is much better then what we have. And Flacco has helped the Ravens reach the playoffs all three seasons he's been starting.

As for Rodgers and Schaub, those are facts...teams were clamoring to trade for Schaub in his second season the Falcons decided to forgo offers, much like Philadelphia did with Kolb last off-season. In regards to Rodgers, ask the Green Bay fans, Favre was on the roster and they waited and waited for him to retire but he refused to, so the team finally made a change. That's not excuses, just facts that don't play well into your theory of Tebow being the next great quarterback in Denver. You would have been better to use Young as an example, but then again...it took him nearly seven seasons to become a great pro, and I can guarantee you that Denver won't wait that long!

Want to try again or is insulting people and acting like an ass the best we can do?

:coffee:

Kyle Orton led the Bears to the playoffs the same way Mark Sanchez has led the Jets to the playoffs.......cmon.

[Lancane]

C'mon Lan, Sanchez has been a below average QB so far in his career.

Sanchez improved greatly in his second season, and he's already looking better...and who are we shitting Slim, Ryan ain't exactly the easiest coach to play for, hell Saban is probably easier and his players hated his guts most of the time. I believe Sanchez is better then Tebow and will remain as much.

[jhildebrand]

My problem with the Orton/Tebow 'discussion,' especially with the media, is the argument seems to change week to week!

Last week Orton was 2 for 6 and Tebow only had one incompletion. Last week there was plenty of excuses as to why Orton was only 2 for 6 i.e. dropped passes, bad routes, etc... When discussing Tebow people wanted to discount his play i.e. the deep pass was nice but Orton would have led the WR better or the WR made a better play.

This week people are acting as if Orton was Brady calling him spectacular. Lloyd made a phenomenal catch. Orton was checking down all game. Tebow gets to throw 2 passes. One was a perfectly thrown deep ball after staying in the pocket and the WR dropped an easy pass. Yet this week nobody wants to grant the same excuses for Tebow that were granted to Orton last week.

I sincerely hope this team doesn't move Tebow. I think he will be way more successful in this league contrary to what the pundits think. To me it is clear.

I am a Denver Broncos fan and I like Tebow. I know there are some that are simply Tebow fans. That is not me. I am a Bronco fan pure and simple.

[vandammage13]

Sanchez hasn't done shit? Leading his team to back-to-back AFCCG is shit! Well then I'm sorry but shit is much better then what we have. And Flacco has helped the Ravens reach the playoffs all three seasons he's been starting.

As for Rodgers and Schaub, those are facts...teams were clamoring to trade for Schaub in his second season the Falcons decided to forgo offers, much like Philadelphia did with Kolb last off-season. In regards to Rodgers, ask the Green Bay fans, Favre was on the roster and they waited and waited for him to retire but he refused to, so the team finally made a change. That's not excuses, just facts that don't play well into your theory of Tebow being the next great quarterback in Denver. You would have been better to use Young as an example, but then again...it took him nearly seven seasons to become a great pro, and I can guarantee you that Denver won't wait that long!

Want to try again or is insulting people and acting like an ass the best we can do?

:coffee:

I'm pretty sure both the Jets and Ravens would have made the playoffs as long as they had a servicable QB back there.

Neither Sanchez nor Flacco are anything other than average at this point in their careers.

[Lancane]

Kyle Orton led the Bears to the playoffs the same way Mark Sanchez has led the Jets to the playoffs.......cmon.

Again, this is one of those where you and I simply disagree. I think Sanchez is on his way to being a pretty solid franchise quarterback, not everyone agrees. Some believe Cassel is a franchise quarterback and I totally disagree...that's just the way it is sometimes.

[NorCalBronco7]

Exactly, he's a first round project...nearly unheard of and his fans believe that Denver is just going to give him the time in order to develop? I just don't agree and they simply don't like it and can not prove their points with any facts.

:beer:

What do the Broncos have to lose with Tebow? His contract is cheap and hes a hard working, talented player.


Theres no indication that the Broncos FO is getting impatience with him, so I fail to see where your coming from.

[Lancane]

I'm pretty sure both the Jets and Ravens would have made the playoffs as long as they had a servicable QB back there.

Neither Sanchez nor Flacco are anything other than average at this point in their careers.

Again...that is opinionative and their teammates, coaches and most of their fans seem to disagree.

[underrated29]

Sanchez hasn't done shit? Leading his team to back-to-back AFCCG is shit! Well then I'm sorry but shit is much better then what we have. And Flacco has helped the Ravens reach the playoffs all three seasons he's been starting.

As for Rodgers and Schaub, those are facts...teams were clamoring to trade for Schaub in his second season the Falcons decided to forgo offers, much like Philadelphia did with Kolb last off-season. In regards to Rodgers, ask the Green Bay fans, Favre was on the roster and they waited and waited for him to retire but he refused to, so the team finally made a change. That's not excuses, just facts that don't play well into your theory of Tebow being the next great quarterback in Denver. You would have been better to use Young as an example, but then again...it took him nearly seven seasons to become a great pro, and I can guarantee you that Denver won't wait that long!

Want to try again or is insulting people and acting like an ass the best we can do?

:coffee:



Flacco is pretty good and imo if he wasnt on the conservative ravens would have taken the leap to very very good QB, not elite, but very very good. I think this year we might possibly see that out of him.

Sanchez though- I disagree with. The guy is not a very good QB at all. Hasnt he thrown more ints then TDs in consecutive years or something close? Maybe its just overall..Im not sure, but he is not good. Still too young, needs a lot more time to learn. Kinda like tebow.


All homerism and bias aside, I would take tebow over sanchez. or in other words, I think if tebow was on the jets and we had the dirty here I think tebow would be the better QB and possibly win a game or two more. JMO, mind you, and that last one is a bit of a stretch. But Sanchez is just not that good. ( i dont think the jets even make the playoffs this year)

[vandammage13]

Sanchez improved greatly in his second season, and he's already looking better...and who are we shitting Slim, Ryan ain't exactly the easiest coach to play for, hell Saban is probably easier and his players hated his guts most of the time. I believe Sanchez is better then Tebow and will remain as much.

Wow...he got better with experience...Imagine that.

I guess he showed them a lot his first year when he "led" them to the AFC Championship game with his 12 TDs and 20 ints...

Replace "Sanchez" with "Henne" and you will probably get similar results as stacked as that team is.

[SOCALORADO.]

Did tebow bang your wife or something? Seriously you are taking this tebow thing to a whole new level of up the ass.


Orton does not suck. He is around the 14/15/16th best Qb in the NFL right now. He sucks when there is pressure or when the game is on the line. He is fine when he has lots of time to pick apart a team. As evidence by training camp, last year and this years pre season.

Quinn-While being in our system the same time as tebow has started at least one full year in the NFL. So he has a major leg up on him there. He was also considered pro ready out of the draft and Not a project. And while he has looked better in TC, shouldnt he?? I think anyone not butt hurt would say yes. However, he is in the battle of his life with Tebow for the #2 spot. Despite having a big advantage. He is also in a contract year.

Tebow- Has 3 games and 3 preseason games under his belt. Was not considered pro ready and WAS considered a project. Despite this, the team was going to trade orton and start Tebow. Despite that, tebow put up more yards and points then orton did. Despite that, Tebow is giving Brady Quinn and Run for his money for the #2 spot with 2 more pre season games to decide who gets it. Despite the fact, that he did not get proper coaching last year, or this year due to the lockout. Still though somehow tebow is in the running for the Number 2.



Everyone accepts this except you. Maybe you got caught up in the hype and now that he is not feel You have been let down and took it personally. Kinda like people did with Cutler. They took it personally that Cutler asked to be traded. Maybe you are taking it personally that Tebow is not starting this year. Whatever the reasons are, he is doing pretty well all things considered, especially when you remove all the hype. Now just because he is not Elway, Steve Young, in his first few starts does not mean that the FO has just given up on him like you have. And everything we have heard or seen SHOWS 100% the opposite.

So it comes back to the question- On any team, do you expect a rookie project QB with 3 starts and 3 preseason games to come in and Unseat the starting QB, who is somewhere around the 14th/15th/16th best QB in the league???? Or do you think he might need a year or two and then he can take the job?

Tebows a virgin. Hes never banged anything.
The whole new level is with the Tebowbots who cant seem to deal with the simple fact that hes not improving.
They not only want Tebow to start, but Orton and any other QB on the Denver Broncos sucks!
Elway even better watch out. Thats how pathetic this non-issue is.
Tebow is 2-3 years away. Good.
There are QBs in next years class that are head and shoulders above and ahead of that time frame. So to many of us, theres no reason to continue with the "Tebow QB project".

[Lancane]

What do the Broncos have to lose with Tebow? His contract is cheap and hes a hard working, talented player.


Theres no indication that the Broncos FO is getting impatience with him, so I fail to see where your coming from.

We have to pay Tebow I believe close to $6.5 Million come Sept. 2nd - so I won't say he's raping the organization...but he's not exactly dirt cheap, as to the other...I'm not hating on the kid, that's where people are mistaking me...what I am disputing is that he is a franchise capable quarterback.

[NorCalBronco7]

Again, this is one of those where you and I simply disagree. I think Sanchez is on his way to being a pretty solid franchise quarterback, not everyone agrees. Some believe Cassel is a franchise quarterback and I totally disagree...that's just the way it is sometimes.

You missed the point. Sanchez didnt lead the Jets to the playoffs. Their defense did.

[Lancane]

Flacco is pretty good and imo if he wasnt on the conservative ravens would have taken the leap to very very good QB, not elite, but very very good. I think this year we might possibly see that out of him.

Sanchez though- I disagree with. The guy is not a very good QB at all. Hasnt he thrown more ints then TDs in consecutive years or something close? Maybe its just overall..Im not sure, but he is not good. Still too young, needs a lot more time to learn. Kinda like tebow.


All homerism and bias aside, I would take tebow over sanchez. or in other words, I think if tebow was on the jets and we had the dirty here I think tebow would be the better QB and possibly win a game or two more. JMO, mind you, and that last one is a bit of a stretch. But Sanchez is just not that good. ( i dont think the jets even make the playoffs this year)

See, but you're admitting that it's opinionative...not a consensus or some other faulty line of bullshit. You and I simply agree to openly disagree on Sanchez, I think Sanchez is going to light up the league this year. And yet we agree on Flacco. Could I be wrong about Sanchez? Of course. Could I be wrong about Tebow? Maybe...but I doubt it. But that is my opinion, but stating that we should see improvement and not a decline in his abilities is true, the past shows that much.

[NorCalBronco7]

We have to pay Tebow I believe close to $6.5 Million come Sept. 2nd - so I won't say he's raping the organization...but he's not exactly dirt cheap, as to the other...I'm not hating on the kid, that's where people are mistaking me...what I am disputing is that he is a franchise capable quarterback.

Whats Tebows base salary?

[Lancane]

You missed the point. Sanchez didnt lead the Jets to the playoffs. Their defense did.

Okay...then let me ask you this Nor, why are his numbers last year comparable to Orton's? He also led a game winning drive against New England that was impressive. You believe the defense led the Jet's to the playoffs, but most of the Jet's players credit Sanchez. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Lancane]

Whats Tebows base salary?

I think it's a little over the NFL standard, a million five or something close to that.

[SOCALORADO.]

See, but you're admitting that it's opinionative...not a consensus or some other faulty line of bullshit. You and I simply agree to openly disagree on Sanchez, I think Sanchez is going to light up the league this year. And yet we agree on Flacco. Could I be wrong about Sanchez? Of course. Could I be wrong about Tebow? Maybe...but I doubt it. But that is my opinion, but stating that we should see improvement and not a decline in his abilities is true, the past shows that much.

The difference is Sanchez can run a Pro-style offense.
As of today, Tebow cant.
I see the knocks on Sanchez. I totally see what some are saying about him.
But he can run the teams offense. Tebow cant.
Thats where many folks have gone dilusional. Like it doesnt matter. Its irrelevant. Cause Tebow can run around.
I dont think Tebow will ever be able to run a pro-style offense proficiently, and because of this opinion, i dont think he will ever be a QB.
Thats it.

[vandammage13]

The difference is Sanchez can run a Pro-style offense.

That remains to be seen...still turns the ball over too much and often has trouble moving the chains.

[NorCalBronco7]

Okay...then let me ask you this Nor, why are his numbers last year comparable to Orton's? He also led a game winning drive against New England that was impressive. You believe the defense led the Jet's to the playoffs, but most of the Jet's players credit Sanchez. We will just have to agree to disagree.

17 tds 13 ints 75 Qbr.....Orton did better and on a worse offense.

Oh, the players said Sanchez led them, then it must be true. Teamates always tell the truth about there own players......

The Jets had a top 5 defense last year. Thats what led the to the playoffs, and anyone with sense can see that.

[NorCalBronco7]

The difference is Sanchez can run a Pro-style offense.
As of today, Tebow cant.
I see the knocks on Sanchez. I totally see what some are saying about him.
But he can run the teams offense. Tebow cant.
Thats where many folks have gone dilusional. Like it doesnt matter. Its irrelevant. Cause Tebow can run around.
I dont think Tebow will ever be able to run a pro-style offense proficiently, and because of this opinion, i dont think he will ever be a QB.
Thats it.

The Broncos run a spread offense, not a pro style offense.......thats good for Tebow. You do realize a pro style offense isnt a generalization about all NFL offenses, right?

[Lancane]

That remains to be seen...still turns the ball over too much and often has trouble moving the chains.

He had 13 interceptions and 9 fumbles only losing one. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees turned the ball over more then Sanchez, Phillip Rivers had the same exact number of interceptions and lost four fumbles out of seven!

[Jsteve01]

C'mon Lan, Sanchez has been a below average QB so far in his career.

yeah, factor in a top 5 defense, a great run game and the opportunity to throw to Holmes, Keller, Edwards and Cotchery....he's really underperformed.

[SOCALORADO.]

That remains to be seen...still turns the ball over too much and often has trouble moving the chains.

No wrong. He runs a Pro-Style offense. Period!
He might not run it the way his coach wants him to, or as effectively as he needs to, but he can take all the snaps from under center and make all the reads and change the play FROM UNDER CENTER, to go to his hot read, and he can do it when asked, or when hes sees he needs to.
Will he do it successfully every time? Nope.
Tebow literally CANT DO THIS. HE cant run an offense from under center with any kind of proficiency. Its the glaring problem which makes him a "work in progress". Hes actually regressing too. Its too bad. I had high hopes he could do this in the offseason and get himself into a position to be somewhat proficient at it. Hes really never done it in his career and it seems to be having a real impact on his future as a QB.

[Jsteve01]

Okay...then let me ask you this Nor, why are his numbers last year comparable to Orton's? He also led a game winning drive against New England that was impressive. You believe the defense led the Jet's to the playoffs, but most of the Jet's players credit Sanchez. We will just have to agree to disagree.

are you joking? Sub 55% comp percentage? 17 tds to 13 picks? 75 passer rating? 9 fumblerooskies? How is any of that comparable?

[slim]

yeah, factor in a top 5 defense, a great run game and the opportunity to throw to Holmes, Keller, Edwards and Cotchery....he's really underperformed.

I think he has a chance to be a good to average QB, but he's not there yet.

I think Tebow also has a chance, so WTF do I know? :welcome:

[Lancane]

The Broncos run a spread offense, not a pro style offense.......thats good for Tebow. You do realize a pro style offense isnt a generalization about all NFL offenses, right?

The Broncos run a Pro-Spread, vastly different then the Urban Meyer's Spread, they are two different animals. And the particular variant we run is a mix between Air-Erhardt, Erhardt-Perkins and the Smash Mouth. And all teams want a Pro-Style Quarterback more then a spread because the spread can hide deficiencies, so it's not really good for Tebow. I've seen parts of the Urban Meyer Spread thrown in the last few times he's played significant time and it doesn't transition well to the NFL.

[NorCalBronco7]

He had 13 interceptions and 9 fumbles only losing one. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees turned the ball over more then Sanchez, Phillip Rivers had the same exact number of interceptions and lost four fumbles out of seven!

LMAO

Brees threw the ball 150 more times and had no running game.....

Manning - 170 more throws, 2nd worse running game!

Rivers......LMAO im not even going there.

[SOCALORADO.]

The Broncos run a spread offense, not a pro style offense.......thats good for Tebow. You do realize a pro style offense isnt a generalization about all NFL offenses, right?

Dude. OMG. DEN doesnt run a spread offense like the Florida Gators run/ran.
This is the NFL. NOT COLLEGE.
A QB in the big boy NFL absolutely has to be able to run PLAYACTION.
He also has to be able to take 3,5,7 step drops proficiently or the team will not be able to matriculate the ball down the field. PERIOD.
He has to THROW FROM THE POCKET. Make hot reads, etc,etc.
Anyone who doesnt know this is completely lost to the game of football.
This is TEBOW problem. Thats why his HC has moved him to 3rd string.
I cant even believe you would post that comment.

[vandammage13]

He had 13 interceptions and 9 fumbles only losing one. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees turned the ball over more then Sanchez, Phillip Rivers had the same exact number of interceptions and lost four fumbles out of seven!

Not a valid comparison, given what those other 3 guys are asked to do for their teams and what Sanchez is asked to do.

Apples and Oranges and you know it.

[Jsteve01]

my heart wants tebow to do it. Im not really firmly in either camp at this point. I haven't given up on him like socal but he's not earned the job this year. That's for sure. I also think people are reading far too much into Quinn running with the 2s

[Lancane]

are you joking? Sub 55% comp percentage? 17 tds to 13 picks? 75 passer rating? 9 fumblerooskies? How is any of that comparable?

Orton in Chicago his first starting season where he had much of what Sanchez does, a solid defense and decent run game, he had 18 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, a comp percentage of 58. a 79 passer rating, had six fumbles and lost five. So as I stated they are comparable or did you think I meant currently where Orton's stats are fluffed up like a French Poodle?

:coffee:

[Lancane]

Not a valid comparison, given what those other 3 guys are asked to do for their teams and what Sanchez is asked to do.

Apples and Oranges and you know it.

No it's not, Sanchez was key to beating the Patriots in the playoffs this past season, I believe he is better then we've seen and will vastly improve...what you're stating is completely opinionative and that's all fine and dandy, I just happen to believe otherwise and that's that.

[NorCalBronco7]

The Broncos run a Pro-Spread, vastly different then the Urban Meyer's Spread, they are two different animals. And the particular variant we run is a mix between Air-Erhardt, Erhardt-Perkins and the Smash Mouth. And all teams want a Pro-Style Quarterback more then a spread because the spread can hide deficiencies, so it's not really good for Tebow. I've seen parts of the Urban Meyer Spread thrown in the last few times he's played significant time and it doesn't transition well to the NFL.

Other than a true spread system, a pro-spread is the next best thing for Tebow. Its a good thing for him that the offense hasnt been changed because Tebow probably will have the most success in some sort of spread variant.

[vandammage13]

No wrong. He runs a Pro-Style offense. Period!
He might not run it the way his coach wants him to, or as effectively as he needs to, but he can take all the snaps from under center and make all the reads and change the play FROM UNDER CENTER, to go to his hot read, and he can do it when asked, or when hes sees he needs to.
Will he do it successfully every time? Nope.
Tebow literally CANT DO THIS. HE cant run an offense from under center with any kind of proficiency. Its the glaring problem which makes him a "work in progress". Hes actually regressing too. Its too bad. I had high hopes he could do this in the offseason and get himself into a position to be somewhat proficient at it. Hes really never done it in his career and it seems to be having a real impact on his future as a QB.

Haha...

I can put a 2 year old behind the wheel of my truck and watch him proceed to smash it into a tree....

I guess he was "driving" the truck, but I dare say that he's capable of driving it.

[rationalfan]

just saw a few minutes of the Ariz/GreenBay replay on NFLN during a lunchbreak. it's notable how much more polished and comfortable those teams' backup QBs look compared to tebow - who still plays very mechanical, rehearsed, etc.

not hatin' on tebow. just sayin.

[slim]

my heart wants tebow to do it. Im not really firmly in either camp at this point. I haven't given up on him like socal but he's not earned the job this year. That's for sure. I also think people are reading far too much into Quinn running with the 2s

It's way too early to give up on the kid. I don't think you need to look any further than the 3 games he started last year. It may not have been pretty, but he found a way to put points on the board. Given that he was a 3 year project to begin with, I think that says a lot. Let him sit and learn another year or two and then see where he is.

[Jsteve01]

Orton in Chicago his first starting season where he had much of what Sanchez does, a solid defense and decent run game, he had 18 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, a comp percentage of 58. a 79 passer rating, had six fumbles and lost five. So as I stated they are comparable or did you think I meant currently where Orton's stats are fluffed up like a French Poodle?

:coffee:

ahhh thought you were comparing him to Orton's current numbers.

[vandammage13]

No it's not, Sanchez was key to beating the Patriots in the playoffs this past season, I believe he is better then we've seen and will vastly improve...what you're stating is completely opinionative and that's all fine and dandy, I just happen to believe otherwise and that's that.

Yeah...He did make some key plays in those games.

Dilfer made some key plays in the Ravens run to the Super Bowl but I wouldn't call him a FQB or even a good QB for that matter.

Perhaps my disgust for Borton clouds my judgement...I don't know...I'm just ready to move on, man...

Frustrated, ya know?

[Lancane]

Other than a true spread system, a pro-spread is the next best thing for Tebow. Its a good thing for him that the offense hasnt been changed because Tebow probably will have the most success in some sort of spread variant.

If he is going to succeed, then yes, I agree that some spread variant is the more probable system in which he will. Actually, the one scheme I think he'd actually truly succeed in is rarely used and that's the old Run & Shoot, not Reeve's variant Run & Gun, but Tom Landry's version.

[Jsteve01]

Okay...then let me ask you this Nor, why are his numbers last year comparable to Orton's? He also led a game winning drive against New England that was impressive. You believe the defense led the Jet's to the playoffs, but most of the Jet's players credit Sanchez. We will just have to agree to disagree.

So essentially you think Orton is now a franchise qb? Im completely lost. Im not trying to argue. I'm honestly just confused. Your post here mentioned nothing about Orton's early numbers.

[jhildebrand]

I think Tebow was a year too early.

I think the league is going the way of Tebow type QB's as evidenced by Cam going #1, who IMHO is less a QB than Tebow and has character issues, and now the Raiders using a 3rd to take Pryor.

[NorCalBronco7]

Dude. OMG. DEN doesnt run a spread offense like the Florida Gators run/ran.
This is the NFL. NOT COLLEGE.
A QB in the big boy NFL absolutely has to be able to run PLAYACTION.
He also has to be able to take 3,5,7 step drops proficiently or the team will not be able to matriculate the ball down the field. PERIOD.
He has to THROW FROM THE POCKET. Make hot reads, etc,etc.
Anyone who doesnt know this is completely lost to the game of football.
This is TEBOW problem. Thats why his HC has moved him to 3rd string.
I cant even believe you would post that comment.

The Broncos run a spread variant.....You dont think the offense will change dramatically with a player like Tebow running it? I understand the demands he will face, but considering the type of player he is, the offense will look more like Flordias then true pro style with him behind center. Thats not to say he wont take snaps from undercenter, or not run playaction, just that the offense with be specifically tailored around Tebows strength, not his weaknesses.

[vandammage13]

I think Tebow was a year too early.

I think the league is going the way of Tebow type QB's as evidenced by Cam going #1, who IMHO is less a QB than Tebow and has character issues, and now the Raiders using a 3rd to take Pryor.

I think Locker is more Tebow than prototype too...

[Jsteve01]

Sanchez should begin to show what he is this year. Year 3 should be a huge jump if he's going to do anything in this league.

[NorCalBronco7]

If he is going to succeed, then yes, I agree that some spread variant is the more probable system in which he will. Actually, the one scheme I think he'd actually truly succeed in is rarely used and that's the old Run & Shoot, not Reeve's variant Run & Gun, but Tom Landry's version.

Im to young to have seen the old Oilers and Bills run the shoot, but doesnt that type of offense require a quick throwing Qb like the WCO?

[Jsteve01]

I think Tebow was a year too early.

I think the league is going the way of Tebow type QB's as evidenced by Cam going #1, who IMHO is less a QB than Tebow and has character issues, and now the Raiders using a 3rd to take Pryor.

you're basing this on what exactly? That two of the worst organizations in football drafted running qbs?

[vandammage13]

you're basing this on what exactly? That two of the worst organizations in football drafted running qbs?

One of those two teams swept us last year (including a 59-17 romp)...

And the other was just one draft pick ahead of us....

Where does that leave us??

[Lancane]

Yeah...He did make some key plays in those games.

Dilfer made some key plays in the Ravens run to the Super Bowl but I wouldn't call him a FQB or even a good QB for that matter.

Perhaps my disgust for Borton clouds my judgement...I don't know...I'm just ready to move on, man...

Frustrated, ya know?

Hell I agree, I am not an Orton fan and I am disgusted that we have to go through another season of what will likely be average quarterback play, possibly puffed up stats because the system does tend to do that.

People misunderstand my overall intention in regards to Tebow, the kid has good upside, a great personality and is encouraging because his never say die attitude, and I get it...there is something that makes you want him to succeed so badly. But, everything I am seeing right now is pointing to him declining not progressing. And I truly don't believe Denver will wait to see, I believe they'll be going in a different direction after the season.

In regards to Sanchez I believe he is better suited for the Pro-Spread, I've long said that, but I think he's done well in the Jets offense and will get better, but if not...then that is on them and not me, I believe he has the potential to be a great franchise quarterback.

On a positive note, Oakland took Terrelle Pryor in the Supplemental Draft like I predicted, so if we do decide to draft a first round quarterback there is one less team in need of one!

;)

[NorCalBronco7]

Sanchez should begin to show what he is this year. Year 3 should be a huge jump if he's going to do anything in this league.

Im a huge USC fan and Ill always like Sanchez, but I highly doubt he ever lives up to the #5 overall pick. He's a game manager now, and thats all he'll be imo. Thats fine though, because thats all the Jets offense requires.

[Agent of Orange]

Im to young to have seen the old Oilers and Bills run the shoot, but doesnt that type of offense require a quick throwing Qb like the WCO?

There are a lot of option routes, far more than other offenses. The Bills ran the no huddle. The Oilers, Falcons, and Lions ran the run and shoot.

[Lancane]

Im to young to have seen the old Oilers and Bills run the shoot, but doesnt that type of offense require a quick throwing Qb like the WCO?

The original Run & Shoot was the grandfather of the spread offensive scheme, and mainly used the shotgun as it's base formation, so no.

[Agent of Orange]

The original Run & Shoot was the grandfather of the spread offensive scheme, and mainly used the shotgun as it's base formation, so no.

It does if that's what the read is. But, as I recall, the demise of the run & shoot offenses was that defenses started picking up on their reads and sitting in zones to manipulate the read. They drop back giving the WRs shallow reads and then when the ball was thrown, they would deliver heavy blows to the WRs. At least I think that's right.

[Lancane]

It does if that's what the read is. But, as I recall, the demise of the run & shoot offenses was that defenses started picking up on their reads and sitting in zones to manipulate the read. They drop back giving the WRs shallow reads and then when the ball was thrown, they would deliver heavy blows to the WRs. At least I think that's right.

That's why pump-faking and heavy cadences became a thing of necessity with that offense, that and faking out the corners by staring down receivers only to check-down quicker and get the ball to a second or third option. Every once in awhile bringing back a classic really throws defenses off balance, if McCoy induced some of the classic Run & Shoot and Run & Gun variants into his scheme, more then the Urban Meyer Spread, it just might help Tebow.

[SOCALORADO.]

The Broncos run a spread variant.....You dont think the offense will change dramatically with a player like Tebow running it? I understand the demands he will face, but considering the type of player he is, the offense will look more like Flordias then true pro style with him behind center. Thats not to say he wont take snaps from undercenter, or not run playaction, just that the offense with be specifically tailored around Tebows strength, not his weaknesses.

Look, clearly you a little lost on this subject and thats OK.
If you think that DEN is going to tailor the offense so that Tebow can run the shotgun all game, i have some oceanfront property in Arizona i would like to sell you.

[SOCALORADO.]

Haha...

I can put a 2 year old behind the wheel of my truck and watch him proceed to smash it into a tree....

I guess he was "driving" the truck, but I dare say that he's capable of driving it.

If thats the analogy your going to use, then Tebow cant even get in the truck! LOL!

[NorCalBronco7]

Look, clearly you a little lost on this subject and thats OK.
If you think that DEN is going to tailor the offense so that Tebow can run the shotgun all game, i have some oceanfront property in Arizona i would like to sell you.

You mad bro?

[vandammage13]

If thats the analogy your going to use, then Tebow cant even get in the truck! LOL!

We shall see...

It might take a bit longer than I had hoped, but I still think his time will come.

Then I'll ask you how you like your crow served.

[SOCALORADO.]

You mad bro?

Amused at your lack of even the most basic football IQ.

[broncobryce]

But i thought Orton sucked!?!?
Doesnt Orton suck!?!
Quinn couldnt possibly look better than Tebow not only in camp, but in a pre season games as well!! WTH!?!?!
How could players who suck, have the advantage over the great and mighty Tebow!?!?!?
So now they dont suck, unless its helping the Tebow argument to play, but if he is regressing, well these guys are veterans and they are really good at looking good, and blah,blah,blah.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

I wouldn't say Orton "sucks". If I posted that please find it. He's not the future, he is great when there is no pressure (like PRACTICE) and has been to 7 or 8 NFL camps so he is comfortable there. Quinn has been to what 5 now?

Point being, they will have an advantage there, and in the fact that Tebow is a different type of player than either one of them.

Let's have either of them run plays that suit Tebow best and see how they look. It wouldn't be good, just like it's not good to make Tebow try to be Orton.

My major point in all of this is we know Orton will not get it done when it really counts, he's proved it.

Tebow already played better than Orton did last season IMO. You know in the real games. The team scored more points with Tebow than Orton. I'm sure you already knew that. Let me guess, "The other team wasn't really trying"

To me you go with points over "looks good in camp."

But I can't really fault Fox, the lockout killed the off season and if Tebow didn't look ready yet fine.
If you want to tell me Orton looks better in camp, fine.
If you want to tell me Orton gives us a better chance to win, I don't agree.

[jhildebrand]

If we get smeared by another division opponent, Orton MUST go. Tebow as bad as he is made to be managed to keep from getting slaughtered by SD in the season finale. The #1 D mind you.

[vandammage13]

He had 13 interceptions and 9 fumbles only losing one. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees turned the ball over more then Sanchez, Phillip Rivers had the same exact number of interceptions and lost four fumbles out of seven!

More damning evidence against the Sanchize..
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2010/fo-mailbag-dropped-interceptions

Seems he had 13 dropped INTs last season through Week 14...5 more than then next guy (Derek Anderson).

If just half of those had been caught, he's right back up at 20 INTs again.

Plus he had 9 fumbles and just one was recovered by the defense?? What are the odds of that?

Seems like he was a little more lucky his 2nd year than his rookie year, not better....Yet I am supposed to believe he can run a pro style offense.

[SOCALORADO.]

I wouldn't say Orton "sucks". If I posted that please find it. He's not the future, he is great when there is no pressure (like PRACTICE) and has been to 7 or 8 NFL camps so he is comfortable there. Quinn has been to what 5 now?

Point being, they will have an advantage there, and in the fact that Tebow is a different type of player than either one of them.

Let's have either of them run plays that suit Tebow best and see how they look. It wouldn't be good, just like it's not good to make Tebow try to be Orton.

My major point in all of this is we know Orton will not get it done when it really counts, he's proved it.

Tebow already played better than Orton did last season IMO. You know in the real games. The team scored more points with Tebow than Orton. I'm sure you already knew that. Let me guess, "The other team wasn't really trying"

To me you go with points over "looks good in camp."

But I can't really fault Fox, the lockout killed the off season and if Tebow didn't look ready yet fine.
If you want to tell me Orton looks better in camp, fine.
If you want to tell me Orton gives us a better chance to win, I don't agree.

I dont believe Orton gives us a better chance to win.
They ALL suck. And whats really funny is Brady Quinn has looked the best so far both in camp and in games!
I would have no problem starting Quinn. It doesnt matter to me, this teams needs to draft a QB next year to solve this problem.

[LTC Pain]

Not everyone buys into Tebow LTC, recent polls have shown that the majority is near evenly split between Tebow being the future franchise quarterback or someone in the draft not yet on the roster. Some of us are not buying that Tebow is the future...so do our opinions mean less then those that do? We can not argue that we don't believe in him, the time it would take to develop him or that he's shown little improvement...but others can argue that he is the future, can debate why he should be starting and so forth? Wouldn't you consider that hypocritical at best?

;)

Lancane it gets to the point where repeating the same gripe, criticism, point of view, etc., goes beyond productive debate/discussion and becomes "pissing and moaning". I'm not trying to limit anyone's debate or exchange. But after SoCol says the same thing (example - Tebow cannot throw from the pocket) 900 times it becomes maniacal and nauseating. It's not about Tebow, yeah or nay. I could care less about who starts as long as we win. My response was solely aimed at one person who is incessantly repeating the same information, like banging a gong. No discussion, no conclusion or agreement, just repetition.

[MasterShake]

Whoa. I thought this thread was all speculation and hyperbole until I witnessed THIS today and my friend took a picture:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/stupidjoke.jpg

You can tell its not a rush photoshop job because I am in the background looking on.

[Northman]

Whoa. I thought this thread was all speculation and hyperbole until I witnessed THIS today and my friend took a picture:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/stupidjoke.jpg

You can tell its not a rush photoshop job because I am in the background looking on.

Bhwwhahahahahaha, awesome!

That pic is not complete without Shake in the background. hahahahahaah omg, so epic!

[MasterShake]

Bhwwhahahahahaha, awesome!

That pic is not complete without Shake in the background. hahahahahaah omg, so epic!

My favorite part is the middle finger hand with the IStockPhoto watermark. :lol:

[Northman]

My favorite part is the middle finger hand with the IStockPhoto watermark. :lol:

And here i thought it was Fox showing his SB rings... :lol:

[Ravage!!!]

I don't think he's ever going to get better by taking limited 2nd and 3rd team snaps. They need to go all in with this guy and cut their losses if he fails, rather than doing this half-assed/non-commital approach.



I was in agreement with much of what you said until you made this comment. This makes no sense. How do you expect the coaches to "commit" to a QB that can't even prove to beat out the two VERY mediocre QBs on the roster? How would ANYONE expect them to start a QB that has PROVED that he can't read defenses, can't make passes outside the number (he's HORRIBLE with them) and can't take snaps from center? How is that being "half-assed?" I think it would be a HALF-ASSED job of coaching to put a player behind center that has proved he doesn't have a friggin CLUE what he's doing.

[jhildebrand]

I was in agreement with much of what you said until you made this comment. This makes no sense. How do you expect the coaches to "commit" to a QB that can't even prove to beat out the two VERY mediocre QBs on the roster? How would ANYONE expect them to start a QB that has PROVED that he can't read defenses, can't make passes outside the number (he's HORRIBLE with them) and can't take snaps from center? How is that being "half-assed?" I think it would be a HALF-ASSED job of coaching to put a player behind center that has proved he doesn't have a friggin CLUE what he's doing.

The same way Ted Thompson and AJ Smith did it. Name them the starter and ship the incumbent out a la Brett Favre and Drew Brees respectively to avoid the circus! Shoot, we all remember the 7 days of non stop Favre in GB as he forced their hand. Ted Thompson was smart enough to see a trade through. In the end, Rodgers nor Rivers won the job in camp.

I think too many people are hung up on the idea of HAVING to win the job at camp. Kevin Kolb couldn't beat out Mike Vick. He went to AZ. We dont hear too many complaints down there from the fans that they got a guy who couldn't beat another guy out.

Roethlisberger didn't beat out Maddox. Maddox got hurt. This is a league where a starter isn't supposed to lose his job to injury (part of Orton's hurt mangina last season) but it happened to Maddox. Should we start holding to that old mantra as well? :confused:

Again, Tom Brady and Tony Romo didn't beat out Drew Bledsoe in training camp. Not even close. It took a Drew Bledsoe injury for those two to get in the game. They never relinquished their roles.

Kurt Warner wasn't even on the level of Tim Tebow as he came from the arena game with 1/10th the decoration of Tebow. He wasn't supposed to even make the Rams squad let alone be a starter. One dirty Rodney Harrison hit to Trent Green and the rest is history.

I don't buy this idea for one moment that a player HAS to win the job in camp. I also find it a complete FARCE that EFX have labeled this an open competition as it has been anything BUT! It is their perogitive to run the team how they see fit but they don't need to feed us bullshit like it being a competition. Simply put, they would have been better off sticking to an old mantra and labeling Orton the starter in the event the team couldn't trade him. FOR ME I haven't been critical of this regime in any way-until this!

Finally, Orton never won the job from Simms. It was handed to him by McD DESPITE all reports in camp that Simms was by and large having the better camp.

[Ravage!!!]

The same way Ted Thompson and AJ Smith did it. Name them the starter and ship the incumbent out a la Brett Favre and Drew Brees respectively to avoid the circus! Shoot, we all remember the 7 days of non stop Favre in GB as he forced their hand. Ted Thompson was smart enough to see a trade through. In the end, Rodgers nor Rivers won the job in camp.

:lol: Yeah, but they still had Rivers and Rodgers!! They coudl see in practice these guys could read defenses and THROW the ball!! Hell, they were TOP guys coming out of college because of the way they could throw the ball. Our coaches haven't seen that at allllll from Tebow. Hell, even the coach that drafted him didn't see it and didn't want to put him in the lineup. There is a HUGE HUGE difference here.


I think too many people are hung up on the idea of HAVING to win the job at camp. Kevin Kolb couldn't beat out Mike Vick. He went to AZ. We dont hear too many complaints down there from the fans that they got a guy who couldn't beat another guy out.

What??? :confused: jhil, I think you need some sleep. You are rambling here.

The point is that Tebow looks WORSE than hoped. Thats the problem. People (and coaches!) were hoping for some improvment, and got NONE! I said many times that watching Tebow last year cause MORE concerns for me and created MORE questions than answering them. Now we see that the coaches (and those that evaluate play outside the coaches) have all said time and time and time again... he is NOOOOOOOT ready at alllll. He's just flat out not ready. Not only did he NOT beat out Orton, he's not..even... close.


Roethlisberger didn't beat out Maddox. Maddox got hurt. This is a league where a starter isn't supposed to lose his job to injury (part of Orton's hurt mangina last season) but it happened to Maddox. Should we start holding to that old mantra as well? :confused:
What??? :confused: Thats not a rule, thats just a cliche'. What has this got to do with the Broncos again?


Again, Tom Brady and Tony Romo didn't beat out Drew Bledsoe in training camp. Not even close. It took a Drew Bledsoe injury for those two to get in the game. They never relinquished their roles.
However, Belicheck said that very offseason that his BIGGEST surprise so far and thrill was to see the young kid Brady in camp... I heard this for myself in the interview (I remember because I'm a wolverine fan and was thrilled hear Brady get some recognition). SO again, the coaches were already very PLEASED with what they were seeing PRIOR to him getting into the lineup. Is Orton hurt? Because I don't see your points yet.


Kurt Warner wasn't even on the level of Tim Tebow as he came from the arena game with 1/10th the decoration of Tebow. He wasn't supposed to even make the Rams squad let alone be a starter. One dirty Rodney Harrison hit to Trent Green and the rest is history.
Man, I have to be honest, I have NOOOO clue where you are going with this! :laugh: What is your point???

For one, "he wasn't supposed to" didn't mean much when he was already the back-up to Trent Green. So I don't know what point you are making there.

However, you think the coaches should just IGNORE what they see on the field, and put Tebow in based on an injury that put Kurt Warner in the game???


I don't buy this idea for one moment that a player HAS to win the job in camp. I also find it a complete FARCE that EFX have labeled this an open competition as it has been anything BUT! It is their perogitive to run the team how they see fit but they don't need to feed us bullshit like it being a competition. Simply put, they would have been better off sticking to an old mantra and labeling Orton the starter in the event the team couldn't trade him. FOR ME I haven't been critical of this regime in any way-until this!

Finally, Orton never won the job from Simms. It was handed to him by McD DESPITE all reports in camp that Simms was by and large having the better camp.

I'm saying that the coaches can see MUCH more than I did, and I could see a BIGGER project than what I expected during Tebow's first three starts. I know I was majorly dispointed in what I saw from him. Then you hear guys like Jaws absolutely say without a doubt, that Tebow just is NOT ready in the LEAST. Then you hear all off season long comments from Elway himself that don't leave you to believe he has confidence in Tebow as a QB.

But you are right. It wasn't even a competition, and THAT is the problem. Tebow hasn't even been close enough to make it a fair fight. I honestly have NO idea what your point is here. But if you think any coach is going to ignore what they see on the field and go by blind "hope"... you're crazy.

Going by all your examples, then Tebow should be hoping for an injury tot he starter so he can come in and prove he's ready. But up until this point, he absolutely has NOT shown that.

If Kurt Warner couldn't show it in practice...ok. He got the shot and made the most of it. He had the advantage of playing more games than Tebow and didn't do anything special than take his team to the Super Bowl whle throwing a measley 41 TD passes.

But Tebow created questions during his starts, and then proved to have MUCH MORE questions after these coaches got to see him play in person. That says a lot.

[rcsodak]

Waaaa. Whats the big deal?
Orton is CLEARLY the better qb on the roster. Hands down.

And, since when does "who's 2nd" matter? Oh, wait. Only when TT is involved. :rolleyes:

Even if he stays 3rd (where he CLEARLY belongs, imo) the new rules allow him to play at anytime of the game.

Looks to me as well as others, like TT took some steps backwards while Quinn saw an opportunity, jumped at it and has bettered himself.

[SOCALORADO.]

Waaaa. Whats the big deal?
Orton is CLEARLY the better qb on the roster. Hands down.

And, since when does "who's 2nd" matter? Oh, wait. Only when TT is involved. :rolleyes:

Even if he stays 3rd (where he CLEARLY belongs, imo) the new rules allow him to play at anytime of the game.

Looks to me as well as others, like TT took some steps backwards while Quinn saw an opportunity, jumped at it and has bettered himself.

Orton is the No. 1
Quinn is the backup
Tebow is 3rd string, and cause he can run, occasionally a wildcat QB.

Next year DEN will draft a QB in the top of the 1st round, and end this stupid drama.

[Nomad]

Is Weber better?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AoNurqAoiSVrz89HdMq3SfNDubYF?slug=ms-silver_denver_broncos_quarterbacks_082311

[vandammage13]

I was in agreement with much of what you said until you made this comment. This makes no sense. How do you expect the coaches to "commit" to a QB that can't even prove to beat out the two VERY mediocre QBs on the roster? How would ANYONE expect them to start a QB that has PROVED that he can't read defenses, can't make passes outside the number (he's HORRIBLE with them) and can't take snaps from center? How is that being "half-assed?" I think it would be a HALF-ASSED job of coaching to put a player behind center that has proved he doesn't have a friggin CLUE what he's doing.

Fine then...Let's just go with the guy who has done nothing but proven he can't win here.

By the way, I dont get how Tebow has "proved he doesn't have a friggin CLUE" when he accounted for 850+ total yards and 7 TDs in just 3 starts.

The only thing that has been proven here is that people are easily swayed by the rhetoric coming from the media and they forget that the guy didn't play that bad as a ROOKIE....

[Lancane]

Fine then...Let's just go with the guy who has done nothing but proven he can't win here.

By the way, I dont get how Tebow has "proved he doesn't have a friggin CLUE" when he accounted for 850+ total yards and 7 TDs in just 3 starts.

The only thing that has been proven here is that people are easily swayed by the rhetoric coming from the media and they forget that the guy didn't play that bad as a ROOKIE....

Van, Ravage is not a fan of Ortons', he's not a fan of Tebows' either...he's much like I am, that we believe the best quarterback for this organization is not on the roster at this time. And you need to quit letting the emotions you have control what you're trying to say, it makes for an ugly conversation. You need to just realize that until Tebow proves otherwise that a lot of people are not going to believe in him and that goes for the Broncos Organization as well. If he can and does then great, until then what we see and what we hear is 'screaming' that he's not the future and not even destined to be a quarterback, at least not in Denver.

[Ravage!!!]

Van, Ravage is not a fan of Ortons', he's not a fan of Tebows' either...he's much like I am, that we believe the best quarterback for this organization is not on the roster at this time. And you need to quit letting the emotions you have control what you're trying to say, it makes for an ugly conversation. You need to just realize that until Tebow proves otherwise that a lot of people are not going to believe in him and that goes for the Broncos Organization as well. If he can and does then great, until then what we see and what we hear is 'screaming' that he's not the future and not even destined to be a quarterback, at least not in Denver.

Exactly! I'm DEFINITELY not a fan of Orton-inary!! Never wanted him here! As far as Tebow, I WANT to become a fan of his as a QB (I'm already a fan of him as a person.. great guy). But as a QB, I just don't think he has what we need to be contenders, and thats all I care about with the Denver Broncos.

As much as I have stated all off-season that I want Tebow to start so that we can at least see what Tebow is or what he isn't, I also was hoping to see SOME kind of improvement from him. I was hoping he could at least show the coaches that he's CLOSE enough to Orton so that they could justify starting him. Instead, we've seen the opposite. As a result, I'm feeling just as I did when we drafted him.... thinking... WTH!?!?!?

I just understand why the coaches would start Orton over Tebow. Tim just hasn't proved he deserves the spot..............yet.

[Dzone]

Michael Silver coming on the 1043 in 20 minutes. Maybe he will tell us who said "Im tellin you, Adam Weber is flat out better..."

[BroncoStud]

Michael Silver coming on the 1043 in 20 minutes. Maybe he will tell us who said "Im tellin you, Adam Weber is flat out better..."

Whoever said it is 100% a dumbass.

[Riveralution]

As A Panthers fan, I am just going to be brutally honest with you guys, and I mean no offense, but it's just the way it is..

Fox doesn't care to develop young QB's.
Don't listen to anything that tool Merril Hodge has to say, Tebow more than likely looks right where a 2nd year experimental QB should. (a.k.a. still raw, but cooking)
But John Fox is simply a lazy, stubborn, fool.
He is going to go with the veteran QB's because he doesn't have to take time to develop them, and sadly, you might see a good QB in Tebow be shown the door because of Fox.

[Lancane]

As A Panthers fan, I am just going to be brutally honest with you guys, and I mean no offense, but it's just the way it is..

Fox doesn't care to develop young QB's.
Don't listen to anything that tool Merril Hodge has to say, Tebow more than likely looks right where a 2nd year experimental QB should. (a.k.a. still raw, but cooking)
But John Fox is simply a lazy, stubborn, fool.
He is going to go with the veteran QB's because he doesn't have to take time to develop them, and sadly, you might see a good QB in Tebow be shown the door because of Fox.

And this is why I am more then thankful that he doesn't have the final decision on personnel here in Denver. I've heard much the same from others, not only that but that he'll continue with an offense or players even after they've proven to be futile!

Good Post...

And welcome to the boards! :beer:

[vandammage13]

As A Panthers fan, I am just going to be brutally honest with you guys, and I mean no offense, but it's just the way it is..

Fox doesn't care to develop young QB's.
Don't listen to anything that tool Merril Hodge has to say, Tebow more than likely looks right where a 2nd year experimental QB should. (a.k.a. still raw, but cooking)
But John Fox is simply a lazy, stubborn, fool.
He is going to go with the veteran QB's because he doesn't have to take time to develop them, and sadly, you might see a good QB in Tebow be shown the door because of Fox.

This was my main concern with him coming in....

He seems to be just another run of the mill, retread coach...probably doesn't bring much to the table that 60% of coaches in this league couldn't.

I won't say he sucks as a coach, he's just another guy though...no McD by any means.

He's kind of like the Orton of coaching...solid, stable, unspectacular, can build us into respectability, but probably doesn't have what it takes to get us to the top.

Probably can build us to be a perinneal wild card contender, but not a serious contender for it all.

Might end up being the perfect marriage for Fox/Orton...

[NightTerror218]

All i have to say it that....IT IS F*@%ING PRESEASON......that about sums it up.

[Ravage!!!]

This was my main concern with him coming in....

He seems to be just another run of the mill, retread coach...probably doesn't bring much to the table that 60% of coaches in this league couldn't.

I won't say he sucks as a coach, he's just another guy though...no McD by any means.

He's kind of like the Orton of coaching...solid, stable, unspectacular, can build us into respectability, but probably doesn't have what it takes to get us to the top.

Probably can build us to be a perinneal wild card contender, but not a serious contender for it all.

Might end up being the perfect marriage for Fox/Orton...

This is what they said about Reeves when he went to Atlanta.

[BroncoStud]

This is what they said about Reeves when he went to Atlanta.

And Reeves finished well below .500 in Atlanta before stepping down. :lol:

I'm not a big John Fox guy, seems like a good dude but I don't like his style of football. Just a preference I suppose, but his career record is right around .500 so he isn't the end-all in good coaching either, but I was perfectly satisfied with Shanahan had he brought in and KEPT a good defensive coordinator.

I'd love to have Mike Shanahan back now with say a Mike Nolan as his assistant head coach and defensive coordinator. For one, Tebow would be wicked good on some of those bootlegs and rollouts that Shanahan loves to use.

[vandammage13]

And Reeves finished well below .500 in Atlanta before stepping down. :lol:

I'm not a big John Fox guy, seems like a good dude but I don't like his style of football. Just a preference I suppose, but his career record is right around .500 so he isn't the end-all in good coaching either, but I was perfectly satisfied with Shanahan had he brought in and KEPT a good defensive coordinator.

I'd love to have Mike Shanahan back now with say a Mike Nolan as his assistant head coach and defensive coordinator. For one, Tebow would be wicked good on some of those bootlegs and rollouts that Shanahan loves to use.

Correct...Reeves caught lightning in a bottle that one year with Chandler, Jamal Anderson, and the rest of the dirty birds.

Very similar to the lightning in a bottle Fox caught one year with Delhomme, never to repeat that success again...

[Ravage!!!]

And Reeves finished well below .500 in Atlanta before stepping down. :lol:

I'm not a big John Fox guy, seems like a good dude but I don't like his style of football. Just a preference I suppose, but his career record is right around .500 so he isn't the end-all in good coaching either, but I was perfectly satisfied with Shanahan had he brought in and KEPT a good defensive coordinator.

I'd love to have Mike Shanahan back now with say a Mike Nolan as his assistant head coach and defensive coordinator. For one, Tebow would be wicked good on some of those bootlegs and rollouts that Shanahan loves to use.

He also coached teams to 4 Super Bowls.


Tebow isn't Shanahan's type of QB.

[Ravage!!!]

Correct...Reeves caught lightning in a bottle that one year with Chandler, Jamal Anderson, and the rest of the dirty birds.

Very similar to the lightning in a bottle Fox caught one year with Delhomme, never to repeat that success again...

he went to FOUR Super Bowls. Don't eliminate the first three. Call it what you will... but how many Super Bowls did Atlanta go to BEFORE Reeves, and how many have they gone to since?

[vandammage13]

He also coached teams to 4 Super Bowls.


he went to FOUR Super Bowls. Don't eliminate the first three. Call it what you will... but how many Super Bowls did Atlanta go to BEFORE Reeves, and how many have they gone to since?

To be fair...you started out making the Reeves comparison...

Personally, I wouldn't put Fox on his level...I was just responding to your post.

[Ravage!!!]

To be fair...you started out making the Reeves comparison...

Actually, I stated that the comments about Reeves were the same. Taking a team to the Super Bowl... isn't average. Call it lightning in a bottle, call it luck.. call it hitting a miracle if you wish. But its not an average task.

[BroncoStud]

He also coached teams to 4 Super Bowls.


Tebow isn't Shanahan's type of QB.

Yep, 4 blowouts and it would only be 1 Super Bowl were it not for John Elway. Dan Reeves isn't and wasn't a great coach, he just coached arguably the greatest QB in history and had a fluke season with the Falcons.

Without Elway his career is rather underwhelming.

[Ravage!!!]

Yep, 4 blowouts and it would only be 1 Super Bowl were it not for John Elway. Dan Reeves isn't and wasn't a great coach, he just coached arguably the greatest QB in history and had a fluke season with the Falcons.

Without Elway his career is rather underwhelming.

Say what you want.... but the coaches between Reeves and Shanahan didn't get him to the super Bowl. No OTHER coach in the history of the Falcon's franchise, took them to the Super Bowl.

I would say that Reeves is a pretty damned good coach, or just happens to be the luckiest coach in the world (the antagonist of Schottenheimer, another great coach that is the unluckiest coach in the world).

You can speculate what his career would have been like without Elway ifyou wish...but thats all it is.

For how many Super Bowls did Noll go to without Bradshaw? Have you seen his record after Bradshaw?
How many Super Bowls did Walsh go to without Montana?
How many Super Bowls did Landry win without Stauback? Have you seen his record after Stauback?
How many Super Bowls did Belicheck go to without Brady? Have you seen his record before Brady?
How many Super Bowls did Johnson go to without Aikman? Have you seen his record after Aikman?
How many Super Bowls did Levy go to without Kelly? Did you see his record before Kelly?

[Canmore]

Say what you want.... but the coaches between Reeves and Shanahan didn't get him to the super Bowl. No OTHER coach in the history of the Falcon's franchise, took them to the Super Bowl.

I would say that Reeves is a pretty damned good coach, or just happens to be the luckiest coach in the world (the antagonist of Schottenheimer, another great coach that is the unluckiest coach in the world).

You can speculate what his career would have been like without Elway ifyou wish...but thats all it is.

For how many Super Bowls did Noll go to without Bradshaw? Have you seen his record after Bradshaw?
How many Super Bowls did Walsh go to without Montana?
How many Super Bowls did Landry win without Stauback? Have you seen his record after Stauback?
How many Super Bowls did Belicheck go to without Brady? Have you seen his record before Brady?
How many Super Bowls did Johnson go to without Aikman? Have you seen his record after Aikman?
How many Super Bowls did Levy go to without Kelly? Did you see his record before Kelly?

I've said the same thing! Without Reeves and Elway we don't go to those Super Bowls. We had talent but lacked elite talent except for Elway. Reeves brand of football got the most out of the talent he had and Elway worked his magic in the fourth quarter. It wasn't pretty and most feel that Dan held John back but it worked. As far as the coaches records wothout their Hall of Fame quarterbacks, abysmal.

[MOtorboat]

I think it's interesting that a thread was never started this weekend that stated "Fox to Quinn: FU" since he clearly passed Quinn's performance by and elevated Tebow this past weekend.

Could it be that there was a "bias" when this thread was created?

[Chidoze]

I think he will be 2nd string next week. HOPEFULLY he's giving each guy a shot at second. But I did find it odd he gave Quinn first string O-line for awhile.

The fact they called it an "open competition" though is a joke.
Sometimes open competition isnt a competition at all when the other competition is leaps and bounds better than the fan favorite.

Tebow can play, but you have to be on another level in the NFL. This isnt Gainesville or the SEC.

[weazel]

I think that pretty much sums up the situation.

I would look for Tebow to be on his way out of Denver soon. 9 mins of playing time, with third stringers, and calling planned runs. He's either trying to tell Tebow "You will not be a QB", has something against him, is planning on getting rid of him, or is giving the vast majority of fans the middle finger.

good players usually get alot of playing time...

[Denvernut707]

He is only trying to give Tebow another year to study a legit pocket passer and set the bar high for him to start next season. With are D improving rapidly maybe letting Orton "manage" the game won't be so bad

[weazel]

If you just think about it rationally you wouldnt have to post all these stupid Tebow threads... the kid needs work and he just didnt get that opportunity with the lockout. So this was basically a wasted year in his development. Now he is going to be a backup work on the things he needs to get better at. Maybe with another season and camp behind him he will be better next season. I don't think he will get better but heres hoping...

[BroncoNut]

This thread is fail....

yeah, I'm like WTF? and then the first couple posters saying things like, yeah, I think his days in denver are short. Maybe, but one could speculate that for many players.

this thread and the posters who positively participated in it suck

[Bullgator]

Yep, 4 blowouts and it would only be 1 Super Bowl were it not for John Elway. Dan Reeves isn't and wasn't a great coach, he just coached arguably the greatest QB in history and had a fluke season with the Falcons.

Without Elway his career is rather underwhelming.

I think you guys get a little carried away... Elway is not even arguably the greatest QB ever. He was great but come on now, to say that any success that the DBs ever had was ONLY due to Elway is lunacy. Reeves was a good coach. In my mind Elway is slightly above Jim Kelly.

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Bart Starr
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
John Elway

[MOtorboat]

I think you guys get a little carried away... Elway is not even arguably the greatest QB ever.

Wait, wut?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I think you guys get a little carried away... Elway is not even arguably the greatest QB ever. He was great but come on now, to say that any success that the DBs ever had was ONLY due to Elway is lunacy. Reeves was a good coach. In my mind Elway is slightly above Jim Kelly.

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Bart Starr
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
John Elway

Really - for those of us who watched the Broncos' during #7's career - especially when Reeves was the coach - it is a well known fact that it was run on 1st down, run on 2nd down - 3rd down - #7 bail us out, which #7 did MANY times.

Also, when #7 retired, it is a known fact that he was a QB who posted MANY come from behind wins.

[NightTerror218]

yeah, I'm like WTF? and then the first couple posters saying things like, yeah, I think his days in denver are short. Maybe, but one could speculate that for many players.

this thread and the posters who positively participated in it suck

I speculate Quinn and Ortons days are number...end of season they will be looking for work.....o wait their contracts are up and they will be looking for work. How did I get that one right? :confused:

We might resign one of them but who knows. :confused:

[NightTerror218]

I think you guys get a little carried away... Elway is not even arguably the greatest QB ever. He was great but come on now, to say that any success that the DBs ever had was ONLY due to Elway is lunacy. Reeves was a good coach. In my mind Elway is slightly above Jim Kelly.

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Bart Starr
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
John Elway

For a person who actually watched all those guys play I would have to put Elway behind Montana. But the fact that all those guys were in a pass happy offense and Elway was in a run first offense. Makes his stats stand out even more. Those guy throw till they go blue. Elway handed off and then made the plays to keep drives alive.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

For a person who actually watched all those guys play I would have to put Elway behind Montana. But the fact that all those guys were in a pass happy offense and Elway was in a run first offense. Makes his stats stand out even more. Those guy throw till they go blue. Elway handed off and then made the plays to keep drives alive.

It has been stated many times that if John was with SF, and Montana was with the Broncos - there is a chance that John would have won more SBs with SF, than Montana did.

[MOtorboat]

It has been stated many times that if John was with SF, and Montana was with the Broncos - there is a chance that John would have won more SBs with SF, than Montana did.

If Sam Bradford had been on Tebow's Florida team, Florida would have won four National Championships instead of two.

:couch:

[BroncoNut]

I speculate Quinn and Ortons days are number...end of season they will be looking for work.....o wait their contracts are up and they will be looking for work. How did I get that one right? :confused:

We might resign one of them but who knows. :confused:

i don't know, I think Quinn will be able to stay on. Tebow is 65/35 on stay/go, and orton, in my estimation will be gone at end of season. I think we look to draft a qb next year. And it's not Andrew Luck. Maybe someone else.

[lgenf]

For a person who actually watched all those guys play I would have to put Elway behind Montana. But the fact that all those guys were in a pass happy offense and Elway was in a run first offense. Makes his stats stand out even more. Those guy throw till they go blue. Elway handed off and then made the plays to keep drives alive.

sorry but Marino is #2, Elway may have been in a run first offense I can give him that, but you gotta give Marino the fact that he was in a NO RUN offense. The fins had no run game at all most of the years 13 was chucking the ball around, and Elway was mobile, Marino had cement boots on in the pocket so Marino had to throw it quicker cause there was no such thing as "extending the play" for Danny boy

[MOtorboat]

i don't know, I think Quinn will be able to stay on. Tebow is 65/35 on stay/go, and orton, in my estimation will be gone at end of season. I think we look to draft a qb next year. And it's not Andrew Luck. Maybe someone else.

Nut, what's your breakdown on Matt Barkley?

[Mike]

sorry but Marino is #2, Elway may have been in a run first offense I can give him that, but you gotta give Marino the fact that he was in a NO RUN offense. The fins had no run game at all most of the years 13 was chucking the ball around, and Elway was mobile, Marino had cement boots on in the pocket so Marino had to throw it quicker cause there was no such thing as "extending the play" for Danny boy

Marino was the better pure passer. Elway was the better athlete and overall QB.

[BroncoNut]

Nut, what's your breakdown on Matt Barkley?

I haven't seen him. I didn't realize that I have little to no idea what next years qb class will be like. I'll have to google this Matt Barkley. Do you like him? Like as a player I mean?

[MOtorboat]

I haven't seen him. I didn't realize that I have little to no idea what next years qb class will be like. I'll have to google this Matt Barkley. Do you like him? Like as a player I mean?

After 2006 I am leery of "great quarterback classes."

[BroncoNut]

Nut, what's your breakdown on Matt Barkley?

I'll have to watch him this season. He may enter the NFL draft after this season. I don't like the USC connection, BUT, ... he seems like a nice young man. I will need to see him in games. Not highlights, not pictures, in games to make a legitimate opinion on him.

[BroncoNut]

After 2006 I am leery of "great quarterback classes."

who where the qbs in that class? Personally, I don't like drafting highly sought qbs in general. That's why I think we should be taking a better look at Brady and Tebow. However, I do think that Orton is the man to start. He looks good, like he did last year at about this time. I believe in developing players in the NFL Mo, FOR the NFL. That's always been my philosophy. The draft is such a crapshoot, for many positions anyway.

[BroncoNut]

So Mo, do you think that Cutler is a bust? And who was that friggin QB on the team when Cutler was with us? What was his name again and what happened to him? Fresno State draftee I do believe.

[MOtorboat]

Cutler is an average to slightly above average quarterback, he's certainly not a bust by any stretch of the imagination. He was the best of the entire draft, though, and that was supposed to be a great draft.

The Rivers, E. Manning, Roethlisberger draft was the best recent class.

[SOCALORADO.]

So Mo, do you think that Cutler is a bust? And who was that friggin QB on the team when Cutler was with us? What was his name again and what happened to him? Fresno State draftee I do believe.

What about this Terp kid? Raphael? Hes supposed to be turning some heads this year.

[BroncoNut]

What about this Terp kid? Raphael? Hes supposed to be turning some heads this year.

I'll have to watch him too. will he be in the next draft? I got the impression MD football is considered a player thins year in the ACC

[SOCALORADO.]

I'll have to watch him this season. He may enter the NFL draft after this season. I don't like the USC connection, BUT, ... he seems like a nice young man. I will need to see him in games. Not highlights, not pictures, in games to make a legitimate opinion on him.

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Matt+Barkley+USC+v+Stanford+_ScR75R4fPCl.jpg

[BroncoNut]

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Matt+Barkley+USC+v+Stanford+_ScR75R4fPCl.jpg

thanks, but this gives me little to no projection on this kid as an NFL prospect. He's white, I like that, but white qbs are a dime a dozen

[BroncoNut]

You know what MO? I like dark horses. Like TD, being a later round pick and all and then kicking ass. and like Seabiscuit who was supposed to be too small to beat War Admiral but did anyway. I want to be that kind of scout.

[Rex]

you know what mo? I like dark horses. Like td, being a later round pick and all and then kicking ass. And like seabiscuit who was supposed to be too small to beat war admiral but did anyway. I want to be that kind of scout.

f. U.

[BroncoNut]

f. U.

thanks buddy

[Rex]

thanks buddy

die

[SOCALORADO.]

thanks, but this gives me little to no projection on this kid as an NFL prospect. He's white, I like that, but white qbs are a dime a dozen

Well, it appeared from your post that you have not seen him, so i provided a photo for you to identify him with.
That way, you'll know a "Franchise QB" when you see it! :D
Heres one without the helmet just to be sure.
http://www.neontommy.com/sites/default/files/uploads/Matt%20Barkley%20thumbs%20up.jpg

[SOCALORADO.]

thanks buddy
Now if your out and about, in a 3rd world country, you know kickin it, and you see what appears to be a "franchise QB", its more than likely Barkley.
http://images.onset.freedom.com/ocregister/lf114h-b78744241z.120110114110451000gkvsojk2.1.jpg

[vandammage13]

No thanks....

http://media.oregonlive.com/behindbeaversbeat/photo/ax140-11bf-9jpg-0b8e973c991b4066.jpg

[BroncoNut]

Well, it appeared from your post that you have not seen him, so i provided a photo for you to identify him with.
That way, you'll know a "Franchise QB" when you see it! :D
Heres one without the helmet just to be sure.
http://www.neontommy.com/sites/default/files/uploads/Matt%20Barkley%20thumbs%20up.jpg

I like him. He's attractive. But it's foolish to judge a book by it's cover

[BroncoNut]

Now if your out and about, in a 3rd world country, you know kickin it, and you see what appears to be a "franchise QB", its more than likely Barkley.
http://images.onset.freedom.com/ocregister/lf114h-b78744241z.120110114110451000gkvsojk2.1.jpg

Really? so he's a nice guy? We have GOT to get him signed