2-14

[hotcarl]

my sources say our record will be 2-14 at the end of the season :salute:

[The Glue Factory]

My sources say your sources are wrong.

[hotcarl]

im going with the under

[Thnikkaman]

my sources say our record will be 2-14 at the end of the season :salute:

I'm taking the alligator horse.

[hotcarl]

I'm taking the alligator horse.

its a 2 headed horse, one head for each win!

[Bullgator]

no way man the prancing sideways horse clearly wins by a rib.

[The Glue Factory]

Where the heck did you find that?!

[MOtorboat]

So...Tebow starts?












I keed!

[hotcarl]

I agree with hotcarl

[sneakers]

I agree with hotcarl

Who's hotcarl?

[Npba900]

So...Tebow starts? I keed!


Depends. When does he comeback to the team after his book tour is over?:laugh: (Saracasm!!!:D)

Tebow starts just as soon as enough games have been played so Denver doesn't have to pay any escalator bonuses for the number of games Tebow started and played.

Hence that's why Quinn is 2nd string to be ready to start in case Orton is injured.

Bowlen has told EFX...no way in hell is he going to pay any Tebow escalator bonuses for games played/started in 2011.;)

[claymore]

Depends. When does he comeback to the team after his book tour is over?:laugh: (Saracasm!!!:D)

Tebow starts just as soon as enough games have been played so Denver doesn't have to pay any escalator bonuses for the number of games Tebow started and played.

Hence that's why Quinn is 2nd string to be ready to start in case Orton is injured.

Bowlen has told EFX...no way in hell is he going to pay any Tebow escalator bonuses for games played/started in 2011.;)

That is a bull spit theory. Tebow isnt starting because he is raw/sucks. Bowlen would easily make up the money from escaltors in TT's contract with luxury box sales from Gator alumni/Tebow groupies.

[SOCALORADO.]

That is a bull spit theory. Tebow isnt starting because he is raw/sucks. Bowlen would easily make up the money from escaltors in TT's contract with luxury box sales from Gator alumni/Tebow groupies.

Man, the Luck sweepstakes are already heating up!

[BroncoStud]

Luck has a GOOD shot at playing in the AFC West next year in either Denver or KC. I think they'll beat us twice so advantage - DENVER.

I would endure a 2-14 season to get Andrew Luck, it sure beats going 5-11 and not getting him.

[LTC Pain]

Bugger off troll.

[Cugel]

Luck has a GOOD shot at playing in the AFC West next year in either Denver or KC. I think they'll beat us twice so advantage - DENVER.

I would endure a 2-14 season to get Andrew Luck, it sure beats going 5-11 and not getting him.

First of all Andrew Luck isn't guaranteed any more than any rookie is a guaranteed great NFL QB. He sure looked stupid throwing that pick last week.

Second, unless the Broncos have the #1 overall pick they aren't getting him. Whatever team has the worst record will take him in a heartbeat.

And all it takes is a meaningless win in the last week against KC and Denver is out of Luck. Pun intended.

Five wins for instance this year would have gotten Denver the 6th pick or something like that. 6-10 means they could wind up with the 10th pick.

They could easily win only 3 games and STILL not have the #1 pick (Carolina had 2 last year).

And I still think they win 5 or 6 games this year because it's tough to lose them all. (Unless of course they start Tim Tebow and he continues to suck as a pocket passing QB). :coffee:

[jhildebrand]

my sources say our record will be 2-14 at the end of the season :salute:

Glad to see I am one of your sources :salute:

TYVM

[BroncoStud]

First of all Andrew Luck isn't guaranteed any more than any rookie is a guaranteed great NFL QB. He sure looked stupid throwing that pick last week.

Second, unless the Broncos have the #1 overall pick they aren't getting him. Whatever team has the worst record will take him in a heartbeat.

And all it takes is a meaningless win in the last week against KC and Denver is out of Luck. Pun intended.

Five wins for instance this year would have gotten Denver the 6th pick or something like that. 6-10 means they could wind up with the 10th pick.

They could easily win only 3 games and STILL not have the #1 pick (Carolina had 2 last year).

And I still think they win 5 or 6 games this year because it's tough to lose them all. (Unless of course they start Tim Tebow and he continues to suck as a pocket passing QB). :coffee:

What 5 or 6 wins do you see on our schedule? We're going to be DOGS in almost every game we play, home or away. In fact, Cinci might be our last legit shot at a win in quite a while, unless you think we are going to shock the world and somehow beat a team like Green Bay. :rolleyes:

By the way, your boy Orton sure looked good last night, he's a keeper. :elefant:

Andrew Luck is coveted because of his skillset, which is elite, extremely elite. He is the complete QB at his level and that is why teams are lining up to grab him. Now, if Carolina somehow ends up with the #1 pick, will they be drafting him after taking Cam this year? Who knows.

I don't see Denver winning more than 4 games and perhaps not that many. If Cinci beats us this week we might not win 4.

[jhildebrand]

Bowlen has told EFX...no way in hell is he going to pay any Tebow escalator bonuses for games played/started in 2011.;)

So let me get this straight, and I will admit upfront to being TT supporter,

Bowlen won't play Tebow because he wont want to pay him the money, but he will allow the suck for Luck campaign that would happen by default and pay him the money a #1 QB still gets (most of which is now guaranteed) never bothering to find out what he has or doesnt have in Tim Tebow a guy this organization payed heavily for in the form of picks and compensation!

I don't think so! Bowlen would much rather see what he has in Tebow before paying for another #1 QB whose contract would be almost entirely guaranteed but whose performance is anybody's guess. For every Peyton Manning there is a Ryan Leaf or Rick Mirer or Gino Toretta or Akili/Alex Smith.

[Lancane]

So let me get this straight, and I will admit upfront to being TT supporter,

Bowlen won't play Tebow because he wont want to pay him the money, but he will allow the suck for Luck campaign that would happen by default and pay him the money a #1 QB still gets (most of which is now guaranteed) never bothering to find out what he has or doesnt have in Tim Tebow a guy this organization payed heavily for in the form of picks.

I don't think so! Bowlen would much rather see what he has in Tebow before paying for another #1 QB whose contract would be almost entirely guaranteed.

Sorry Jhil, but Luck's, Jones' or even Barkley's contract would be reasonable under the new CBA Rookie Wage Scale. So I wouldn't bet money on that, Tebow's escalators in his contract I believe could make it about a 40 million dollar contract overall, I don't see anyone of those three getting a contract that could escalate to that proportion under the new scale.

[lgenf]

No way

If we start out 1-5 then T2 gets the starts after that and he will win at least 2 of the remaining 10 probably 3 or 4 actually so that would put us at a good 5-11

Now if Fox has instructions from Elway to play orton no matter what or Quinn if orton gets hurt to keep T2 in development until next year then maybe but no way with T2 in at QB we lose 14 games

[hotcarl]

No way

If we start out 1-5 then T2 gets the starts after that and he will win at least 2 of the remaining 10 probably 3 or 4 actually so that would put us at a good 5-11

Now if Fox has instructions from Elway to play orton no matter what or Quinn if orton gets hurt to keep T2 in development until next year then maybe but no way with T2 in at QB we lose 14 games

You need some :defense: to win games and ours will be ranked 31-32ish unless you missed last night

[gnomeflinger]

hotcarl has been playing with tarot cards.

[OMorange&blue]

That is a bull spit theory. Tebow isnt starting because he is raw/sucks. Bowlen would easily make up the money from escaltors in TT's contract with luxury box sales from Gator alumni/Tebow groupies.

Good lord. When did Clay become the voice of reason?

Cats and dogs living together...mass hysteria!!

[lgenf]

You need some :defense: to win games and ours will be ranked 31-32ish unless you missed last night

Our D is going to get better, more cohesive

And isn't Oakland one of the best running teams from last year?

[lgenf]

Yeah I just looked it up on espn

KC 1st with 164.2 per game
Oakland 2nd with 155.9 per game

So they are going to be one of the best we face this year

[hotcarl]

Yeah I just looked it up on espn

KC 1st with 164.2 per game
Oakland 2nd with 155.9 per game

So they are going to be one of the best we face this year

well that's 4 games, maybe we can beat green bay? what was their rank? name the ones that ranked worse vs our run d ranking I'd like to see

[Nomad]

So let me get this straight, and I will admit upfront to being TT supporter,

Bowlen won't play Tebow because he wont want to pay him the money, but he will allow the suck for Luck campaign that would happen by default and pay him the money a #1 QB still gets (most of which is now guaranteed) never bothering to find out what he has or doesnt have in Tim Tebow a guy this organization payed heavily for in the form of picks.

I don't think so! Bowlen would much rather see what he has in Tebow before paying for another #1 QB whose contract would be almost entirely guaranteed.

What I don't get is all the 'suck for Luck' proponents don't want Tebow to play because he sucks. Well, letting him play would achieve their goal in getting Luck in their theory because the BRONCOS would definitely suck, correct! Why not see Tebow suck it up and you Luckomaniacs will get your trophy.

Screw the locker room because it'll be in disarray by midseason from the losses and no leadership anyway.

[hotcarl]

What I don't get is all the 'suck for Luck' proponents don't want Tebow to play because he sucks. Well, letting him play would achieve their goal in getting Luck in their theory because the BRONCOS would definitely suck, correct! Why not see Tebow suck it up and you Luckomaniacs will get your trophy.

Screw the locker room because it'll be in disarray by midseason from the losses and no leadership anyway.

EVERYBODY WINS!!! woot :cool:

[FanInAZ]

Yeah I just looked it up on espn

KC 1st with 164.2 per game
Oakland 2nd with 155.9 per game

So they are going to be one of the best we face this year

How much of that has to do with them getting to run over our D 2 times a piece? Is it a coincidence that Cleveland (20th rushing) & Cincinnati (27th rushing) struggled so much with running the ball when they’re in the same division as Pittsburg (1st in run D) & Baltimore (5th in run D)? On the other hand, was Pittsburg & Baltimore so good at run D because they had Cleveland & Cincinnati in their division?

[Ravage!!!]

On the other hand, was Pittsburg & Baltimore so good at run D because they had Cleveland & Cincinnati in their division?

No. I think Baltimore builds their team to play Pitt, and Pitt to play Baltimore. Neither are concerned with Cinci and Cleveland.

[jhildebrand]

Sorry Jhil, but Luck's, Jones' or even Barkley's contract would be reasonable under the new CBA Rookie Wage Scale. So I wouldn't bet money on that, Tebow's escalators in his contract I believe could make it about a 40 million dollar contract overall, I don't see anyone of those three getting a contract that could escalate to that proportion under the new scale.

Well a little research indicates that you and MUG are both wrong.

Cam Newton signed a 4 year deal worth 22 Million FULLY GUARANTEED!

The NFL, for years now, has been using a 10% increase over the prior year for slotted deals. That means the next #1 is probably looking at roughly $25 million over 4 years and also more than likely FULLY GUARANTEED.

Now, when it comes to Tebow the bulk of the money he is going to be earned has already been earned by way of a $6.275 Million roster bonus that he was paid this year. His base salary is 1.619 Million. So this year, whether he plays or not he is earning 7.9 Million!

Now here comes the part you were referencing: Tebow's contract would double in value from $11.25 million to $22.5 Million if he were to play 55% of the snaps in any two of the first three seasons. Last year falls well short.

Now let's say for sake he does happen to reach that incentive his contract will still only be guaranteed at $22 million. I don't see how Bowlen would not find out what he has in a guy who cost this organization 4 picks for a guy whose entire salary is automatically going to be fully guaranteed no matter what.

Finally, TT's 2012 and 2013 salaries are fully guaranteed anyway.

The details on the contract can be found at http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_15667056

[CrazyHorse]

So...Tebow starts?












I keed!

After we go 0-14 Tebow replaces Ortona and leads us to our only 2 victories. Simple as that.

[BroncoStud]

This should make for a painfully interesting season. The fans aren't going to give Orton an inch of breathing room, they've clearly seen enough. Fox is going to have to make a change at some point, if we lose to Cinci it might come as early as week 3.

This next game is pivotal for Fox and Orton. If Orton struggles the fans are going to crucify him.

[Thnikkaman]

After reading this thread, I thought I would leave this number with you:


Need help? In the U.S., call 1-800-273-8255
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

[sneakers]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/denver-broncos-is-poop/109373962434890

[Nomad]

After reading this thread, I thought I would leave this number with you:


Need help? In the U.S., call 1-800-273-8255
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

The world is overpopulated anyway......let fate take it's course!

[hotcarl]

Bump

[vandammage13]

Bump

Bumping your own threads...."Look at me, Look at me!!!"

[vandammage13]

Your OP is pretty spot on though...who are your sources?

[Cugel]

Well a little research indicates that you and MUG are both wrong.

Cam Newton signed a 4 year deal worth 22 Million FULLY GUARANTEED!

The NFL, for years now, has been using a 10% increase over the prior year for slotted deals. That means the next #1 is probably looking at roughly $25 million over 4 years and also more than likely FULLY GUARANTEED.

Now, when it comes to Tebow the bulk of the money he is going to be earned has already been earned by way of a $6.275 Million roster bonus that he was paid this year. His base salary is 1.619 Million. So this year, whether he plays or not he is earning 7.9 Million!

Now here comes the part you were referencing: Tebow's contract would double in value from $11.25 million to $22.5 Million if he were to play 55% of the snaps in any two of the first three seasons. Last year falls well short.

Now let's say for sake he does happen to reach that incentive his contract will still only be guaranteed at $22 million. I don't see how Bowlen would not find out what he has in a guy who cost this organization 4 picks for a guy whose entire salary is automatically going to be fully guaranteed no matter what.

Finally, TT's 2012 and 2013 salaries are fully guaranteed anyway.

The details on the contract can be found at http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_15667056

Here are the details of Tebow's contract from Rotoworld -- the site that lists all player contract details:


7/29/2010: Signed a five-year, $9.75 million contract. The deal includes $8.7 million guaranteed. Another $23.25 million is available through incentives, though $9 million of them are "unlikely to be earned." $1,537,500 of the incentives are available through a "likely to be earned" onetime escalator. 2011: $1,618,750 (+ $6.275 million guaranteed option bonus due 9/2), 2012: $1,942,500, 2013: $2,266,250, 2014: $2.59 million, 2015: Free Agent

Ignoring the "unlikely to be earned" bonuses that were only included for cap-reasons:

Base salary: $1.85 million
Pro-rated guarantee for 2011: $1.74 million
2011 roster bonus: $6.275 September 2, 2011.
One time escalator: $1.6 million.

It so happens that 2011 is when Tebow's real signing bonus kicks in ($7.8 million).

This is wildly less than many first round draft picks have gotten of course, let alone QBs.

Compare what the Chiefs gave to the generally invisible DT Tyson Jackson that same year:


8/7/2009: Signed a five-year, $57 million contract. The deal includes $31 million guaranteed. (http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/kc/chiefs) 2011: $1.79 million, 2012: $2.505 million, 2013: $3.22 million, 2014: $3.935 million (Voidable Year), 2015: Free Agent

$31 million in guarantees versus $15 million! That's a HUGE difference.

Tebow is actually a real bargain if he ever starts, which is likely to happen sometime this season. By comparison: Matt Stafford got a 6 year $72 million contract, $41 million guaranteed and virtually all of which is going to be paid. (Of course Stafford is twice the QB that Tebow is, but never mind, just compare the numbers).

If Tebow and Stafford both play out their contracts, Tebow would get less than 1/2 of what Stafford (drafted the same year) is getting paid. Just for some perspective.

[Cugel]

What 5 or 6 wins do you see on our schedule? We're going to be DOGS in almost every game we play, home or away. In fact, Cinci might be our last legit shot at a win in quite a while, unless you think we are going to shock the world and somehow beat a team like Green Bay. :rolleyes:

By the way, your boy Orton sure looked good last night, he's a keeper.

"My boy Orton"???? WTF??? :confused:

Since WHEN has Orton been "my boy." Think there are just the two types of idiots -- Teboniacs and "Orton's Army?"

I don't think much of EITHER QB. I think the Broncos are going to draft a QB next season because Orton will play himself out of a job.

But, he hasn't done it yet. And Fox isn't going to blame him for losing 2 games by 6 points -- even if the Teboniacs are.

I think Cutler was Denver's franchise QB. Everything has gone wrong since they got rid of him. And nothing is going to go right until they find (and train) his replacement.

When McMoron forced the trade of Cutler I predicted it would set the franchise back by 5 years. The "Orton's Army" fools ripped me continually. ("Orton is SOO MUCH better than cry-baby Cutler! Good riddance to that trash!")

Right. :coffee:

Well, so far it's been 3 years and they STILL don't have a franchise QB and the earliest they might find one would be 2012 and even then there's no guarantees.

Right now, it's clear that Fox wants Orton to succeed because he's his type of QB -- conservative, doesn't make a lot of stupid mistakes and turn the ball over. Good pocket passer if you have good blocking and a good running game and a good defense.

In short, a game manager -- rather like Jake Delhomme (although Orton isn't as good as Delhomme was).

So, 2011 is not a job interview for Tim Tebow. It's an interview for Kyle Orton. Are they going to keep him and re-sign him to a long-term contract?

Or let him go as a FA?

Right now it's looking like Orton will be gone in 2012. But, that does NOT mean that Tebow will automatically become the franchise QB in 2012. It means there will be a QB controversy (unless Tebow demands a trade and pouts in which case all the Teboniacs can just go elsewhere and leave the actual BRONCOS fans in peace).

[Joel]

It's a question that requires a look at the schedule rather than just a raw numerical estimate though:

Sep 12 OAK 23 @ DEN 20 Close loss to a possible Division contender
Sep 18 CIN 22 @ DEN 24 Close win against a poor team
Sep 25 DEN 14 @ TEN 17 Close loss to a competitive team
Oct 02 DEN @ GB On the road against the Champs; the spread is in scientific notation. :(
Oct 09 SD @ DEN Divisional games tend to be tight due to familiarity, but maybe not with a new coaching staff, and the Bolts are a much better team.
Bye
Oct 23 DEN @ MIA Very winnable game against a team as bad as we are; all our starters (except maybe Champ) should be healthy after the bye.
Oct 30 DET @ DEN 2 of Detroits wins were against KC and a Vikings team that CANNOT hold a lead; if they aren't as good as advertised we can win this one.
Nov 06 DEN @ OAK Unless you think HFA is worth a lot, this is as winnable as the last one.
Nov 13 DEN @ KC We NEVER win at Arrowhead.
Nov 17 NYJ @ DEN I pity our offense againt their D (though the Raiders made it look STUPID yeserday.)
Nov 27 DEN @ SD Probable loss; the Division seems to be between them and Chokeland.
Dec 04 DEN @ MIN I like the Vikings, but they've blown HT leads of 10, 17 and now 20 points so far; they're coaching is awful and they're beatable.
Dec 11 CHI @ DEN We're in trouble against any strong defence.
Dec 18 NE @ DEN And worse trouble when it's joined by a strong offense.
Dec 24 DEN @ BUF Still don't believe in Buffalo, but they have to better than us to be 3-0, and are hard to beat at home in December.
Jan 01 KC @ DEN They may be worse than us, and have as much trouble here as we do there.

I'd predict 5±1 wins to be safe, but lean more toward 4 than 6. It's probably worth noting that we currently have -4 net points (albeit in 3 games) against a possible playoff team, a very poor one and one that should at least be competitive. That's despite the fact three of our four best players (Doom, DJ and Champ) aren't playing; at least two of them ought to be back by the time we play Miami in a month.

Barring some freakish win (which is likely to happen, but be offset by a freakish loss) I see 3 likely wins (the Bungles, @Miami and KC.) In addition, a win seems very likely hosting Detroit and/or @Minnesota. That's at least 4 or 5 wins; there could even be more if the Bills aren't for real, we manage to win in KC and/or a squeaker in Chokeland goes our way this time.

ALL those things have to happen for us to make .500 though, and, once again, the law of averages says every game we win when we "shouldn't" will be offset by one we lose when we "shouldn't." While the players obviously have no such luxury, we, as fans, are probably better off resigning ourselves to a losing season sooner rather than later. Fact is, you don't go from picking 2nd out of 32 teams to the playoffs in one year, especially when your biggest free agency acquisition is a journeyman three yards and a cloud of dust RB. We're rebuilding, and that means we're going to have to add a lot of critical but absent pieces over a long period.

From that perspective, a 2-14 season might be desirable in the long term, but it's not likely, though another 4-12 season that gives us another top five pick is VERY possible. The fact that 6-10 seasons are a lot more common than either of the other two illustrates part of why I place such a priority on getting the best available (non-kicker) player with a top five pick, WHATEVER the position.

[weazel]

Suck for Luck, play Tebow!!!

[Locnar]

lol

[MileHighCrew]

Suck for Luck, play Tebow!!!

we are sucking for luck with orton

[lgenf]

I just love digging up the preseason prediction threads to take a look where we are at the half way point in the season and just exactly WHO WAS SMOKING CRACK early in the season


Enjoy reading .......

[MileHighCrew]

I just love digging up the preseason prediction threads to take a look where we are at the half way point in the season and just exactly WHO WAS SMOKING CRACK early in the season


Enjoy reading .......

Maybe you should pull up this one since you like pointing out where everyone else was wrong. http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272559 Last I check Orton is still a Bronco and that weekend passed.

[SR]

I just love digging up the preseason prediction threads to take a look where we are at the half way point in the season and just exactly WHO WAS SMOKING CRACK early in the season


Enjoy reading .......

Denver is 4-5. Far from stellar and hardly anything to start tooting teblow's horn about.

[Mike]

Denver is 4-5. Far from stellar and hardly anything to start tooting teblow's horn about.

I will take 3-1 any day especially when the alternative was 1-4. And as long as Tebow doesn't get hurt, I expect to see 2-3 more wins which is a few more than I expected before the season started and during the season with bum playing.

Tebow has been shaky, but the team play's better with him. At best, we can now say that we have a chance to win again against most teams.

[lgenf]

Denver is 4-5. Far from stellar and hardly anything to start tooting teblow's horn about.

I'm not tooting anyone's horn

Tebow is not solely responsible for the 3 wins

I pulled up the thread because there is SOME optimism right now among the fan base, and preseason there was not much of that based on our schedule and bleak showing from last year and this preseason

[lgenf]

Maybe you should pull up this one since you like pointing out where everyone else was wrong. http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272559 Last I check Orton is still a Bronco and that weekend passed.

As a life long phins fan and recent convert over to the broncos I was stating the obvious that the fins did not have a QB on their roster and needed one badly because Henne was playing like crap, the rumors of Orton trades to Miami were just dying down and it was a good tongue and cheek posting about getting rid of what I perceived as dead man walking on our roster


Now, I was wrong about trading for Orton, but they did go out and get Moore and the team is playing much better then their record right now

So yeah I was wrong,mthey didn't want Orton - seems no one does

[lgenf]

No way

If we start out 1-5 then T2 gets the starts after that and he will win at least 2 of the remaining 10 probably 3 or 4 actually so that would put us at a good 5-11

Now if Fox has instructions from Elway to play orton no matter what or Quinn if orton gets hurt to keep T2 in development until next year then maybe but no way with T2 in at QB we lose 14 games

Hell even I only thought we would get to 5 wins, but I was close on the 1-5 thing, Foxy just pulled the trigger sooner than even I thought would happen

[MileHighCrew]

So Hot Carl was off with 2-14 but at the time Orton was starting and the team did start off really bad. Maybe he wasn't SMOKING CRACK. Maybe you weren't SMOKING CRACK either when you said he would be traded by the weekend as you had a logical reason to think he might be, but it isn't a very nice thing you did there suggesting he was SMOKING CRACK...

[Thnikkaman]

A Tebow loss adds a loss and takes away a win. We will be -6 - 16 at the end of the year.

:dontyou****ingjinxus:

[slim]

HotCarl smoking crack?

That is ******* ridiculous. Eveyone knows Bill is the one hitting the pipe.

[lgenf]

So Hot Carl was off with 2-14 but at the time Orton was starting and the team did start off really bad. Maybe he wasn't SMOKING CRACK. Maybe you weren't SMOKING CRACK either when you said he would be traded by the weekend as you had a logical reason to think he might be, but it isn't a very nice thing you did there suggesting he was SMOKING CRACK...

Ummm, it wasn't about attacking Carl

He wasn't the only one posting in this thread, my point was more the optimism we have now about winning a few more games from the position we are in right now and maybe even getting to .500 is WAY more optimistic then ALMOST EVERYONE thought we could get to

But you just keep on thinking I was pointing out Carl in all this......:confused:


It's the half way point - THAT IS WHY THE THREAD GOT DUG UP

[MileHighCrew]

so you are suggesting many people were smoking crack, but you must also be smoking crack because you admit you were wrong in your predictions.

It was carl's thread, it was logical to think that is what you were doing BTW.

[lgenf]

so you are suggesting many people were smoking crack, but you must also be smoking crack because you admit you were wrong in your predictions.

It was carl's thread, it was logical to think that is what you were doing BTW.

Yes we all smoke crack :beer:

Get over it

[hotcarl]

please stop attacking me. you made me sad :(

[lgenf]

please stop attacking me. you made me sad :(

Ha ha

That I loved Carl