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View Full Version : Could Jake have scored 11 points ?



Superchop 7
11-24-2008, 10:31 PM
Kiss his tail all you want, Jay has weapons everywhere, but his arm couldn't hit a fly route all day Sunday.

Don't get me started on winning percentage.

MOtorboat
11-24-2008, 10:35 PM
Jehuu Caulcrick could have.

Ridiculous thread.

Superchop 7
11-24-2008, 10:38 PM
Legit question.

But your right ....Caulcrick would have scored.

slim
11-24-2008, 10:38 PM
Who cares? Jake is gone.

Shazam!
11-24-2008, 10:40 PM
The Broncos were just a better team during Jake's tenure. Don't kid yourself to think the Broncos would be any better with Jake. Jake's 'winning percentage' is also the result of better coaching, team, and defense.

But I'll tell you this, I'm no fan of Jake. I was unhappy when they got Jake. Jake was screwed and just another one of Shanahan's yearly scapegoats. By Drafting Cutler, he stabbed him in the back, and Jake knew his time in Denver was done. The whole 2006 season was sabotaged.

This is on Shanahan's head. Uninspired, driveless and unprepared play is on the Coach. There is nobody else to blame. Blame Shanahan. Don't call it on injuries either.

Italianmobstr7
11-24-2008, 11:03 PM
It's not all Shanahan's fault when we lose. Just like it's not all on him when we win. But Shaz, you're the kind of person who thinks it's Shanny's fault when we lose, and he has nothing to do with it when we win. That's not the case. He's partly to blame. A loss isn't caused by 1 coach, 1 player, or even 1 phase of the game. It's a team game. We lost as a team. If you think Shanny didnt coach the Broncos to beat the RAIDERS, then you don't know what you're talking about. The Broncos were bad on offense, defense, and special teams on Sunday. It's partly on Shanahan, but it's also on the other coaches, and the other players. If you can't see that, then you're blind.

BroncoTech
11-25-2008, 12:10 AM
If a Qb is missing passes that wildly you should take a play from the Philly playbook and bench him. We have a back up that can lead this team on drives and it's getting obvious when Jay plays bad we lose. The talk of the NFL is you can get inside this team's head. If other teams are seeing it we should too.

Superchop 7
11-25-2008, 12:26 AM
What was Jake......75% wins ?

BroncoBJ
11-25-2008, 12:29 AM
Well he did score 13 points against Oakland a few years ago. :elefant:

Scarface
11-25-2008, 12:33 AM
We'd have about 2 wins with Jake behind center this year. With all of the injuries and the suckiness on defense it's a miracle we're above .500. Jake Plummer LOL!

You kids go too far with the comedy.

honz
11-25-2008, 12:36 AM
Jake wasn't taking us to the promise land. Shanny knew it, the fans knew it, the players knew it, Jake knew it. We've got a very good young QB behind center now with a team that should be on the rise over the next couple years...time to move on.

Superchop 7
11-25-2008, 12:40 AM
We'd have about 2 wins with Jake behind center this year. With all of the injuries and the suckiness on defense it's a miracle we're above .500. Jake Plummer LOL!

You kids go too far with the comedy.

__________________________________________________ ______________________

I was born Sept 15 1961. (same day as Marino)
Just sayin.

Jake never had this OL or talent at WR and TE.

Just sayin.

But he could hit a fly route.

And put 13 on the board.

In his sleep.

Lets talk about production.

Give him 4 games....he wins 3......with who ?

Give credit where credit is due.

Not to even mention nailing a cheerleader.

Shazam!
11-25-2008, 12:41 AM
It's not all Shanahan's fault when we lose. Just like it's not all on him when we win. But Shaz, you're the kind of person who thinks it's Shanny's fault when we lose, and he has nothing to do with it when we win. That's not the case. He's partly to blame. A loss isn't caused by 1 coach, 1 player, or even 1 phase of the game. It's a team game. We lost as a team. If you think Shanny didnt coach the Broncos to beat the RAIDERS, then you don't know what you're talking about. The Broncos were bad on offense, defense, and special teams on Sunday. It's partly on Shanahan, but it's also on the other coaches, and the other players. If you can't see that, then you're blind.

I agree with a lot that you are saying. I just think, Mike Shanahan always gets a pass. Not at all saying he should be fired, but simply held accountable.

Just like people thinking the Broncos would be better off with Jake Plummer. Oh, man... but Cutler has to be held accountable too. He's the leader of the Offense. He has to play better. But he's in his third year, will learn from his mistakes (we hope) unlike Plummer, and playing with a dismal lack of RB's. They need a feature Back.

Denver's defense has been the big problem the last few years. It needs to be fixed... as usual. What Shanahan has done hasn't worked.

Another DC next year... (Sigh.)

NameUsedBefore
11-25-2008, 12:42 AM
Brian Griese would've moped his way off the bench and to a victory.

Lonestar
11-25-2008, 12:55 AM
I do have to say Jake had:


a great oline for ZBS,for most of his DEN stay, though it really sucked for pass protection he was nick named the Snake for a reasonn..

Poorti$$$$$ for one year.tater for the rest..

sharpe for a couple IIRC

rod and ashley

winning record


He did not have:


graham

Marshall

Royale

stokley

scheffler

or this monster OLINE for pass protection

Jays cannon or Diabtes (are we really sure it is under control)


Jake did well with what he had, never thought he should be playing in the NFL in the first place, he mocked the NFL, but he had fun on the field..

Jake had a winning attitude and did not let things get to him till 2006..

I think I;m glad we have Jay although the past few weeks of his performances has left some doubt..

Maybe it is time for him to go out and have some fun.. Like Jake used to have..

dogfish
11-25-2008, 01:06 AM
Could Jake have scored 11 points ?

no. . . .

Italianmobstr7
11-25-2008, 01:23 AM
If a Qb is missing passes that wildly you should take a play from the Philly playbook and bench him. We have a back up that can lead this team on drives and it's getting obvious when Jay plays bad we lose. The talk of the NFL is you can get inside this team's head. If other teams are seeing it we should too.

You're right. Let's put in Hackney...HAHHAA. You've got to be kidding me. Jake wasn't half the qb that Jay is. And I like Jake. I supported him his entire time in Denver, but he's no Cutler. We had a better defense when Jake was around. A d who could help stop someone if Jake did have a turnover. Jay is doing good for what he has around him. Our D is bad, our O is inconsistent and young. That includes Jay, but it's not all on him. Who is this backup qb you speak of that could just come in and take over for one of the BEST young qb's in the league? HACKney? Give me a break. I like the guy, but he's not Jay Cutler. Jay will be a top 5 qb in this league by the end of next year, and maybe by the end of this year. He's already up there in stats. Now our TEAM needs to put together some W's.

Superchop 7
11-25-2008, 01:36 AM
and he can hit a fly route in his sleep, his arm was strong....

fcspikeit
11-25-2008, 01:41 AM
I do have to say Jake had:


a great oline for ZBS,for most of his DEN stay, though it really sucked for pass protection he was nick named the Snake for a reasonn..

Poorti$$$$$ for one year.tater for the rest..

sharpe for a couple IIRC

rod and ashley

winning record


He did not have:


graham

Marshall

Royale

stokley

scheffler

or this monster OLINE for pass protection

Jays cannon or Diabtes (are we really sure it is under control)


Jake did well with what he had, never thought he should be playing in the NFL in the first place, he mocked the NFL, but he had fun on the field..

Jake had a winning attitude and did not let things get to him till 2006..

I think I;m glad we have Jay although the past few weeks of his performances has left some doubt..

Maybe it is time for him to go out and have some fun.. Like Jake used to have..

The past few weeks? :confused: Don't you mean last week?

You make it sound like he has had 4 or 5 bad games in a row. He might be up and down but 2 weeks ago he played great!

fcspikeit
11-25-2008, 01:45 AM
Now were getting somewhere....

btw, Jake would have WON,.

You know it,

I know it.

So does Elway.

LOL

Don't drag Elways name through the mud! Please provide a link to where Elway said that. Otherwise stop ASSuming Elway agrees with you and using that assumption to give your post's merit.

LordTrychon
11-25-2008, 01:59 AM
LOL

Don't drag Elways name through the mud! Please provide a link to where Elway said that. Otherwise stop ASSuming Elway agrees with you and using that assumption to give your post's merit.

I said it therefore it's true is a great argument... what are you trying to imply, FC?

Prove him wrong!

shank
11-25-2008, 03:51 AM
this thread is bad for america

Lonestar
11-25-2008, 03:58 AM
The past few weeks? :confused: Don't you mean last week?

You make it sound like he has had 4 or 5 bad games in a row. He might be up and down but 2 weeks ago he played great!


few can mean almsot anything I was talking the past 5-6 games.. yes he has played great but up and down like a yo-yo.

broncophan
11-25-2008, 06:07 AM
We'd have about 2 wins with Jake behind center this year. With all of the injuries and the suckiness on defense it's a miracle we're above .500. Jake Plummer LOL!

You kids go too far with the comedy.


You are wrong......a team riddled with injuries NEEDS a veteran qb......not a kid who is learning how to be an nfl qb..

It's not Jays fault......he has alot to learn...

LOL all you want about Jay......he led the broncos to alot of wins when he was here.....and I am sure the broncos had alot of injuries along the way....

Thnikkaman
11-25-2008, 09:46 AM
__________________________________________________ ______________________

I was born Sept 15 1961. (same day as Marino)
Just sayin.

Jake never had this OL or talent at WR and TE.

Just sayin.

But he could hit a fly route.

And put 13 on the board.

In his sleep.

Lets talk about production.

Give him 4 games....he wins 3......with who ?

Give credit where credit is due.

Not to even mention nailing a cheerleader.

But his head was never in the game. He is much happier playing handball now than he ever was playing football.

And My Aunt would be my Uncle if she had a sack.

Just sayin.

Rex
11-25-2008, 09:48 AM
We'd have about 2 wins with Jake behind center this year. With all of the injuries and the suckiness on defense it's a miracle we're above .500. Jake Plummer LOL!

You kids go too far with the comedy.

Imagine that.:rolleyes:

Medford Bronco
11-25-2008, 09:49 AM
Jake plays run defense too :lol:

and Jake plays corner and safety.

The real problems with this team on D.

CoachChaz
11-25-2008, 09:53 AM
The biggest benefit that Jake had over Jay was the experience of playing so long for a bad team. By the time Jake got here, he had confidence and experience. Jake was a total gunslinger and he fristrated us, but there was no false advertising. We knew what we were getting when he arrived. In reality...is Jay much different? No, he too is a gunslinger and he will frustrate us and excite us all the same. It comes with the territory.

So sit back and prepare yourself for alot of heartache and alot of thrills. If you want a robotic system QB, go look for the next Chad Pennington. If you want someone that is going to try everything they can (painful or not) to win, then watch the Broncos for the next 10 years.

Scarface
11-25-2008, 09:55 AM
You are wrong......a team riddled with injuries NEEDS a veteran qb......not a kid who is learning how to be an nfl qb..

It's not Jays fault......he has alot to learn...

LOL all you want about Jay......he led the broncos to alot of wins when he was here.....and I am sure the broncos had alot of injuries along the way....

He led?! Our defense and our running game led us to those wins. Jake did his best to manage the game and stay out of their way.

Mike
11-25-2008, 10:00 AM
He could have done it with his left hand. :rolleyes:

Closely reaching the ridiculous point round here. :coffee:

Rex
11-25-2008, 10:03 AM
He could have done it with his left hand. :rolleyes:

Closely reaching the ridiculous point round here. :coffee:

Hypotheticals are ridiculous always.

broncophan
11-25-2008, 11:15 AM
He led?! Our defense and our running game led us to those wins. Jake did his best to manage the game and stay out of their way.

:listen:..He "managed" the game very well....imo....we can only hope Cutler learns how to do that........with his talent.....maybe he will lead the team farther than the AFC championship game.........prob. several years away.....the kid has no idea how to "manage".....not his fault....he has alot to learn...

Lonestar
11-25-2008, 12:02 PM
But his head was never in the game. He is much happier playing handball now than he ever was playing football.

And My Aunt would be my Uncle if she had a sack.

Just sayin.

bovine excrement..

when he was on the field there were few more intense players in the game..

just because he poked the NFL in the eye in the way he dressed and his looks pissed off alot of folks..

So he drove a thing or what ever it was called.. dressed in t shirts.. he never got caught up in the millionaire thing like most of the punks in the league have.. did not care for flash at all..

He did what he was supposed to do help win games and went home..
when he was asked to step up his game he spent the better part of his off season to study game tape with Gary and mikey.. his numbers went up and his picks went down dramatically.

After THE BEST season of his career he was thought so highly of, mikey decided he was not good enough and his replacement drafted..

Which was OK by Jake he is happier playing a game than working for mikey and that pissed people off wow what bovine excrement.......:salute:

Thnikkaman
11-25-2008, 12:35 PM
bovine excrement..

when he was on the field there were few more intense players in the game..

just because he poked the NFL in the eye in the way he dressed and his looks pissed off alot of folks..

So he drove a thing or what ever it was called.. dressed in t shirts.. he never got caught up in the millionaire thing like most of the punks in the league have.. did not care for flash at all..

He did what he was supposed to do help win games and went home..
when he was asked to step up his game he spent the better part of his off season to study game tape with Gary and mikey.. his numbers went up and his picks went down dramatically.

After THE BEST season of his career he was thought so highly of, mikey decided he was not good enough and his replacement drafted..

Which was OK by Jake he is happier playing a game than working for mikey and that pissed people off wow what bovine excrement.......:salute:

I am not saying that Jake wasn't a competitor. He is a prime example of a competitor. Football just wasn't his game. He did it to get himself through college, and did it for a paycheck, but it was not his passion. His head wasn't in the game. He doesn't care about it now, nor does he even want to talk about it.

Call it bovine excriment, pigeon droppings, cat turds, all you want, but Jake wasn't in it for the game. For him, it was just his 9-5.

Edited for spelling.

Lonestar
11-25-2008, 12:47 PM
I am not saying that Jake wasn't a competitor. He is a prime example of a competitor. Football just wasn't his game. He did it to get himself through college, and did it for a paycheck, but it was not his passion. His head wasn't in the game. He doesn't care about it now, nor does he even want to talk about it.

Call it bovine excriment, pigeon droppings, cat turds, all you want, but Jake wasn't in it for the game. For him, it was just his 9-5.

Edited for spelling.

do you really think that after a few more years that it will not be just a paycheck for Jay?

Jake said many times he was amazed that he was drafted and then paid millions to play the game, he loved the game to go out and compete.. watching him with a clear eye you saw that he was an undisputed leader on the team..

Now he has moved on to another passion nothing wrong with that.. Just because he was cast aside in DEN and had the temerity of declining to move to TPA to get beat up on 4 hours on Sundays that took several days following to be able to be functional again..

Everyone get tired of the toll it takes on the body..

Lots of folks think he is nuts fro walking away.. But then when you here that John can't even walk the course to play golf who made the right decision when?

Jake won a lot of games in DEN yes he had help on both sides of the LOS.. But he was still the guy that got the glory or goat each week and there was a lot more Glory than losses when he was here..

Lets just hope that Jay can get better between the ears.. He has more tools to work with physically, as well as talent on the team..

Thnikkaman
11-25-2008, 01:05 PM
do you really think that after a few more years that it will not be just a paycheck for Jay?

Jake said many times he was amazed that he was drafted and then paid millions to play the game, he loved the game to go out and compete.. watching him with a clear eye you saw that he was an undisputed leader on the team..

Now he has moved on to another passion nothing wrong with that.. Just because he was cast aside in DEN and had the temerity of declining to move to TPA to get beat up on 4 hours on Sundays that took several days following to be able to be functional again..

Everyone get tired of the toll it takes on the body..

Lots of folks think he is nuts fro walking away.. But then when you here that John can't even walk the course to play golf who made the right decision when?

Jake won a lot of games in DEN yes he had help on both sides of the LOS.. But he was still the guy that got the glory or goat each week and there was a lot more Glory than losses when he was here..

Lets just hope that Jay can get better between the ears.. He has more tools to work with physically, as well as talent on the team..

Just like you, I can't tell the future. We will see what happens with Jay. I am excited for the potential.

I did follow Jake from Arizona State, to the Cards. I was very excited to see him in Denver because I knew he was a competitor. I don't think he liked the boundaries that held him in check in football, and I respect Jake's decision to walk away when he did. I don't think I ever spoke porly of Jake other than thinking he was done after that Thanksgiving game 2 seasons ago.

I by no means am I an expert on Plummer, but from what I have seen, and read about him, Plummer is an excelent athlete, not a football player. He had tallent as a quarterback, but didn't necessarally want to play football.

At this point, I will respectfully agree to dissagree, but won't ignore anything else you have to say on the subject since we are basically arguing about intangables here.

Northman
11-25-2008, 01:10 PM
Well, we know Jay can score 42 against that very same team so i dont know. lol

Northman
11-25-2008, 01:14 PM
The past few weeks? :confused: Don't you mean last week?

You make it sound like he has had 4 or 5 bad games in a row. He might be up and down but 2 weeks ago he played great!


Well, to be fair the paper stats dont always tell the tale. Although Jay showed a lot of guts coming back in the fourth Quarter against the Browns there was at least 2 Int's (that would have gone to the house) that were dropped. Fortuantely, those guys had butter fingers that night.

Northman
11-25-2008, 01:19 PM
do you really think that after a few more years that it will not be just a paycheck for Jay?

Jake said many times he was amazed that he was drafted and then paid millions to play the game, he loved the game to go out and compete.. watching him with a clear eye you saw that he was an undisputed leader on the team..

Now he has moved on to another passion nothing wrong with that.. Just because he was cast aside in DEN and had the temerity of declining to move to TPA to get beat up on 4 hours on Sundays that took several days following to be able to be functional again..

Everyone get tired of the toll it takes on the body..

Lots of folks think he is nuts fro walking away.. But then when you here that John can't even walk the course to play golf who made the right decision when?

Jake won a lot of games in DEN yes he had help on both sides of the LOS.. But he was still the guy that got the glory or goat each week and there was a lot more Glory than losses when he was here..

Lets just hope that Jay can get better between the ears.. He has more tools to work with physically, as well as talent on the team..

Actually, he declined to go to Tampa because he was told he would have to compete for a starting job. I appreciate what he did here but in the end he wasnt the answer at that position.

In-com-plete
11-25-2008, 02:09 PM
Part of me wants to go off on our winning percentage with Plummer and all that other crap. Because I am a huge Plummer fan. But I've left that be for so long that I'm not even going to get into it. It's not worth it. :D

But I will say this. Actually, I'll ask this. What if we scored 11 points? Are all of us Bronco fans any happier this week? Does 31-11 sound any better than 31-10? Because scoring 11 points doesn't give us a win. Scoring 11 doesn't give us a playoff spot. Scoring 11 sure as **** doesn't make our defense any less pathetic than they are.


:salute:

Lonestar
11-25-2008, 02:13 PM
Actually, he declined to go to Tampa because he was told he would have to compete for a starting job. I appreciate what he did here but in the end he wasnt the answer at that position.

We really do not know that is a fact.. just some YAG..


And frankly we do not know for sure at this point that Jay is that answer either we can hope he will mature into it. he certainly has the tools to do so but something is not right as we speak.. maybe the Shadow is just to big..

Northman
11-25-2008, 03:12 PM
We really do not know that is a fact.. just some YAG..


And frankly we do not know for sure at this point that Jay is that answer either we can hope he will mature into it. he certainly has the tools to do so but something is not right as we speak.. maybe the Shadow is just to big..

Wouldnt surprise me.

broncophan
11-25-2008, 03:22 PM
We really do not know that is a fact.. just some YAG..


And frankly we do not know for sure at this point that Jay is that answer either we can hope he will mature into it. he certainly has the tools to do so but something is not right as we speak.. maybe the Shadow is just to big..

Yea.....I hope the "something that is not right"....is just his inexperience......but for some reason.....I have a feeling it's something more than that...

The kid hasn't been on a winning team since his high school days......so hell.....at this point in the season.....I am just hoping for a winning season...........that in itself.......is a huge stride in the right direction.

I don't know.......I sure don't see us beating the Jets, Bills, or Chargers......so a winning season may be at least (another) year away.........but hey......Cutler is used to that.......so nothing new for him....

We have not had too many qb's in Denver who were not winners in their college days.....hell.....without looking, even Elway, I think won his share of games at Stanford....:confused:

JakeGirl
11-25-2008, 04:37 PM
Kiss his tail all you want, Jay has weapons everywhere, but his arm couldn't hit a fly route all day Sunday.

Don't get me started on winning percentage.

but I'll get started on the winning stats: Jake was 39-15 in regular reason games I believe with the Broncos. Ouch. That really hurts.

Jake knew how to motivate a team - and heck, even the crowd!! Whether you hated or loved Jake, the crowd was always into it when Jake was on the field!!

Jay is a spoiled brat who needs to grow up asap!!!! And grow a manly beard!!!!:cool:

JakeGirl
11-25-2008, 04:40 PM
no. . . .

Maybe not, but he would have pulled off a WIN!!! :-)

topscribe
11-25-2008, 04:51 PM
but I'll get started on the winning stats: Jake was 39-15 in regular reason games I believe with the Broncos. Ouch. That really hurts.

Jake knew how to motivate a team - and heck, even the crowd!! Whether you hated or loved Jake, the crowd was always into it when Jake was on the field!!

Jay is a spoiled brat who needs to grow up asap!!!! And grow a manly beard!!!!:cool:

How is it that you think you can vaunt Jake by tearing down Jay?

Jake did a good job while he was here.

Jay is doing a good job . . . we have to remember that he actually had only
two years of starts in the league.

Every QB has his ups and downs. Remember Jake's game in 2005 against
Pittsburgh? Remember Roethlisberger's game in the Super Bowl right after
that?

-----

Northman
11-25-2008, 05:23 PM
How is it that you think you can vaunt Jake by tearing down Jay?

Jake did a good job while he was here.

Jay is doing a good job . . . we have to remember that he actually had only
two years of starts in the league.

Every QB has his ups and downs. Remember Jake's game in 2005 against
Pittsburgh? Remember Roethlisberger's game in the Super Bowl right after
that?

-----

Are you really surprised by her answer? She is a Jake fan, not a Bronco fan. Reminds me of the clown on the Mane who followed Jake from Arizona St. to the Cardinals, then to Denver, and then left when Jake left. Although she is correct about his winning record here the team that Jake had and the team that Jay has is like apples and oranges. One was full of veterans while the other has a crapload of young players still finding their way. Still, with the talent he had he couldnt keep his turnover ratio down and ultimately sealed his fate. Obviously, Jay has a similiar problem but having those mistakes from a 10 year vet to a 2 1/2 year player is a huge difference. If Jay is making that many mistakes 8 years from now then she can blast the kid all she wants. Until then, he needs time to grow and get a solid team around him.

Lonestar
11-25-2008, 05:45 PM
Are you really surprised by her answer? She is a Jake fan, not a Bronco fan. Reminds me of the clown on the Mane who followed Jake from Arizona St. to the Cardinals, then to Denver, and then left when Jake left. Although she is correct about his winning record here the team that Jake had and the team that Jay has is like apples and oranges. One was full of veterans while the other has a crapload of young players still finding their way. Still, with the talent he had he couldnt keep his turnover ratio down and ultimately sealed his fate. Obviously, Jay has a similiar problem but having those mistakes from a 10 year vet to a 2 1/2 year player is a huge difference. If Jay is making that many mistakes 8 years from now then she can blast the kid all she wants. Until then, he needs time to grow and get a solid team around him.


Yes prior to 2005 he had a pick problem but after spending most of the off season watching tape of every game he had played with Mike and Gary e almost set a record for passes between picks almost 300 IIRC he had the lowest pick total in his career in 2005 7 and second highest passer rating 90.2..
So going on that information it really did not seal his fate as much as the team he was QBing losing the playoff game to a vastly superior PIT team..

As I've said many times before Jay just might rue the day he was drafted to DEN. there is not doubt that he has all the tools necessary to get the job done now lets see if he can survive in Elways shadow and fanatics expectations....and that folks is all between the ears..

Requiem / The Dagda
11-25-2008, 05:48 PM
Lol. . . the Jake Wars continue to exist. LMAO.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2008, 07:15 PM
This thread reminds me of why Jake Plummer flipped of the crowd.......I love irony.......

topscribe
11-25-2008, 07:39 PM
Lol. . . the Jake Wars continue to exist. LMAO.

Where? I don't see any Jake wars.

I see a discussion. I don't see any wars.

-----

topscribe
11-25-2008, 07:41 PM
This thread reminds me of why Jake Plummer flipped of the crowd.......I love irony.......

ROTF!! That was cool. Actually, he flipped off one heckler.

I still have my suspicions . . . :D

-----

Broncos Mtnman
11-25-2008, 08:09 PM
We have not had too many qb's in Denver who were not winners in their college days.....hell.....without looking, even Elway, I think won his share of games at Stanford....:confused:

Actually, that's not true.

Elway collected a 15-18 record in three years as a starter from 1980-1982, a 1-2 Big Game record, and never sniffed the postseason in a Stanford uniform.

Northman
11-25-2008, 08:17 PM
Yes prior to 2005 he had a pick problem but after spending most of the off season watching tape of every game he had played with Mike and Gary e almost set a record for passes between picks almost 300 IIRC he had the lowest pick total in his career in 2005 7 and second highest passer rating 90.2..
So going on that information it really did not seal his fate as much as the team he was QBing losing the playoff game to a vastly superior PIT team..

As I've said many times before Jay just might rue the day he was drafted to DEN. there is not doubt that he has all the tools necessary to get the job done now lets see if he can survive in Elways shadow and fanatics expectations....and that folks is all between the ears..

I think it did when he had a horrible game against Pitt in the AFCCG and then followed it up with the same performance against a subpar Rams team to begin the next season. Not too mention the offense becoming very stagnant for the rest of the season until Jay was put in place. Jake was a good game manager but was nowhere near the guy who had a reputation for bringing a ballclub back from behind. Whatever little magic he had in Arizona didnt follow him to Denver unfortuantely and seeing what happened in the AFCCG and the following season i think Shanahan knew he wasnt going to be the answer at that position.

Northman
11-25-2008, 08:19 PM
Where? I don't see any Jake wars.

I see a discussion. I don't see any wars.

-----


Agreed. This is nothing compared to what went on while i was on the Mane. There is a lot of common ground from what is being talked about here the way i look at it.

topscribe
11-25-2008, 08:33 PM
Agreed. This is nothing compared to what went on while i was on the Mane. There is a lot of common ground from what is being talked about here the way i look at it.

Yup. Just making sure nobody baits a war, if you know what I mean . . .

-----

Broncos Mtnman
11-25-2008, 09:12 PM
Yes prior to 2005 he had a pick problem but after spending most of the off season watching tape of every game he had played with Mike and Gary e almost set a record for passes between picks almost 300 IIRC he had the lowest pick total in his career in 2005 7 and second highest passer rating 90.2..
So going on that information it really did not seal his fate as much as the team he was QBing losing the playoff game to a vastly superior PIT team..

As I've said many times before Jay just might rue the day he was drafted to DEN. there is not doubt that he has all the tools necessary to get the job done now lets see if he can survive in Elways shadow and fanatics expectations....and that folks is all between the ears..

Jake was better in 2005 for only one reason, the Broncos gameplanned to reduce the chances of making a mistake.

In 2003, Jake averaged 27.5 apg. In 2004, that number jumped to 32.6 (a year with 20 INTs). In 2005, that number was 28.5. In 2006, before he was demoted, the number was 28.8. The magic number for Jake was in the 25-28 attempts range. Once he exceeded that number, all bets were off.

In 2003, he threw one TD every 20.1 attempts and one INT every 43.1.
In 2004, he threw one TD every 19.3 attempts and one INT every 26.1.
In 2005, he threw one TD every 25.3 attempts and one INT every 65.1.
In 2006, he threw one TD every 28.8 attempts and one INT every 24.4.

In 2004 and 2006, when his attempts per game were highest, his TDs went down and his INTs went up. In the other two years, it was the opposite.

Jay's numbers are stronger, even though he's asked to throw the ball more often.

In 2007, Jay averaged 29.2 attempts per game. So far, in 2008, he's averaging 36.9.

In 2007, Jay threw one TD every 23.4 attempts and one INT every 33.4.
In 2008, the number is one TD every 21.4 attempts and one INT every 33.8.

Despite the fact that Jay is throwing more, his turnovers are lower and his TDs are higher.
_____________________________________

Not directed at you (rather the win-loss record crowd), but it should also be noted that the defense that played for the Broncos while Jake was QB was head and shoulders above what Jay has had backing him up. In addition, the running game was better.

In 2003, the defense was 9th in points allowed and 4th in yards. The rushing game averaged 163.4 ypg.
In 2004, the defense was 9th in points allowed and 4th in yards. The rushing game averaged 145.8 ypg.
In 2005, the defense was 3rd in points allowed and 13th in yards. The rushing game averaged 158.7 ypg.
In 2006, the defense was 8th in points allowed and 14th in yards. The rushing game averaged 134.5 ypg.

In 2007, the defense was 28th in points allowed and 19th in yards. The rushing game averaged 122.3.
In 2008, the defense is currently 28th in points allowed and 28th in yards. The rushing game is averaging 109.5 ypg.

Clearly, the win-loss record is a TEAM accomplishment and requires the TEAM to do it's job. As I've documented, Jay is doing a better job than Jake did (statistically), but without the other support, the results won't be the same.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2008, 09:30 PM
but I'll get started on the winning stats: Jake was 39-15 in regular reason games I believe with the Broncos. Ouch. That really hurts.

Jake knew how to motivate a team - and heck, even the crowd!! Whether you hated or loved Jake, the crowd was always into it when Jake was on the field!!

Jay is a spoiled brat who needs to grow up asap!!!! And grow a manly beard!!!!:cool:

Btw, when did Jake Plummer become Knute Rockne? I'll have to keep an eye out for the after school special.......

Lonestar
11-25-2008, 09:50 PM
I think it did when he had a horrible game against Pitt in the AFCCG and then followed it up with the same performance against a subpar Rams team to begin the next season. Not too mention the offense becoming very stagnant for the rest of the season until Jay was put in place. Jake was a good game manager but was nowhere near the guy who had a reputation for bringing a ballclub back from behind. Whatever little magic he had in Arizona didnt follow him to Denver unfortuantely and seeing what happened in the AFCCG and the following season i think Shanahan knew he wasnt going to be the answer at that position.

Where to start.
the AFCCG was an abomination by almost everyone that touched the field that day in a bronco uniform.. coaches included or placing the total blame other than Jake got the credit for wins and losses is not quite genuine..

The following year it was pretty clear to everyone with the eh total change in scheme and OC that Jakes time was over in DEN..

IMHO The only reason mikey did not make the change in the first game was he learned a lesson when inserting greasy in as starter without having the blessing of the lockeroom..

The second the draft choice was announce the forum boards proclaimed Jay would be the starter and lead the team to the SP the following year..

No rational person could believe that mikey had any intention of Jake being with the club any longer than it took to get Jay ready.. While I'm a good guy I doubt that even I could perform much better considering the massive changes to the game I was expecting to play..

I suspect had mikey been upfront about it and not made massive changes, changes that did not fit Jakes game AT ALL. Perhaps there would have been a better out come in 2006..

NO ONE on this forum can say with a straight face that last years OLINE had any semblance of drop back pass protection..

Look I'm OK with Jay as the QB IF he can get out of the funk he has been in or the play calling which ever it is....

But do not ever try to convince me that Jake was the sole reason for the playoff loss or 2006 going down the toilet..

Lonestar
11-25-2008, 09:55 PM
Jake was better in 2005 for only one reason, the Broncos gameplanned to reduce the chances of making a mistake.

In 2003, Jake averaged 27.5 apg. In 2004, that number jumped to 32.6 (a year with 20 INTs). In 2005, that number was 28.5. In 2006, before he was demoted, the number was 28.8. The magic number for Jake was in the 25-28 attempts range. Once he exceeded that number, all bets were off.

In 2003, he threw one TD every 20.1 attempts and one INT every 43.1.
In 2004, he threw one TD every 19.3 attempts and one INT every 26.1.
In 2005, he threw one TD every 25.3 attempts and one INT every 65.1.
In 2006, he threw one TD every 28.8 attempts and one INT every 24.4.

In 2004 and 2006, when his attempts per game were highest, his TDs went down and his INTs went up. In the other two years, it was the opposite.

Jay's numbers are stronger, even though he's asked to throw the ball more often.

In 2007, Jay averaged 29.2 attempts per game. So far, in 2008, he's averaging 36.9.

In 2007, Jay threw one TD every 23.4 attempts and one INT every 33.4.
In 2008, the number is one TD every 21.4 attempts and one INT every 33.8.

Despite the fact that Jay is throwing more, his turnovers are lower and his TDs are higher.
_____________________________________

Not directed at you (rather the win-loss record crowd), but it should also be noted that the defense that played for the Broncos while Jake was QB was head and shoulders above what Jay has had backing him up. In addition, the running game was better.

In 2003, the defense was 9th in points allowed and 4th in yards. The rushing game averaged 163.4 ypg.
In 2004, the defense was 9th in points allowed and 4th in yards. The rushing game averaged 145.8 ypg.
In 2005, the defense was 3rd in points allowed and 13th in yards. The rushing game averaged 158.7 ypg.
In 2006, the defense was 8th in points allowed and 14th in yards. The rushing game averaged 134.5 ypg.

In 2007, the defense was 28th in points allowed and 19th in yards. The rushing game averaged 122.3.
In 2008, the defense is currently 28th in points allowed and 28th in yards. The rushing game is averaging 109.5 ypg.

Clearly, the win-loss record is a TEAM accomplishment and requires the TEAM to do it's job. As I've documented, Jay is doing a better job than Jake did (statistically), but without the other support, the results won't be the same.


We have went around with this subject for ever I stopped reading after the very first sentence..

"the Broncos game planned to reduce the chances of making a mistake."

If this is indeed true then they need to do the same thing today.. Because right now Jay is acting more like greasy than Jay.. EOS..

I hope he does indeed get out of it as the offense is designed around him completely jay does good we score alot Jay does bad we suck..

MOtorboat
11-25-2008, 09:56 PM
We would have won both of the last two Super Bowls had Jake been our quarterback...:rolleyes:

But only if we hadn't traded Clinton Portis.

Northman
11-25-2008, 10:53 PM
Where to start.
the AFCCG was an abomination by almost everyone that touched the field that day in a bronco uniform.. coaches included or placing the total blame other than Jake got the credit for wins and losses is not quite genuine..

The following year it was pretty clear to everyone with the eh total change in scheme and OC that Jakes time was over in DEN..

IMHO The only reason mikey did not make the change in the first game was he learned a lesson when inserting greasy in as starter without having the blessing of the lockeroom..

The second the draft choice was announce the forum boards proclaimed Jay would be the starter and lead the team to the SP the following year..

No rational person could believe that mikey had any intention of Jake being with the club any longer than it took to get Jay ready.. While I'm a good guy I doubt that even I could perform much better considering the massive changes to the game I was expecting to play..

I suspect had mikey been upfront about it and not made massive changes, changes that did not fit Jakes game AT ALL. Perhaps there would have been a better out come in 2006..

NO ONE on this forum can say with a straight face that last years OLINE had any semblance of drop back pass protection..

Look I'm OK with Jay as the QB IF he can get out of the funk he has been in or the play calling which ever it is....

But do not ever try to convince me that Jake was the sole reason for the playoff loss or 2006 going down the toilet..


Ive never actually claimed he was the sole reason for that loss. But he was a major part of it. No matter how bad the defense was playing that day 4 turnovers by your Qb does a lot of damage to the psyche of an already struggling defense. We are seeing a lot of the same with Jay right now only there's a lot more injuries, less veteran leadership, and younger players dealing with these problems. Will Jay grow out of it? I hope so and from some of the others things ive seen from him it looks promising.

MOtorboat
11-25-2008, 10:55 PM
Champ Bailey makes the interception on Pittsburgh's first drive we are Super Bowl Champs.

No doubt in my mind.

P.S. Arguing over Jake Plummer and Clinton Portis is ridiculous.

Dean
11-26-2008, 05:54 AM
Champ Bailey makes the interception on Pittsburgh's first drive we are Super Bowl Champs.

No doubt in my mind.

P.S. Arguing over Jake Plummer and Clinton Portis is ridiculous.

But throwomg Champ's name into the fray somehow isn't???? :hi:


Old wounds which are continually reopened never completely heal. :questionmark: