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NightTerror218
08-16-2011, 11:03 AM
@broncosbuzztap Denver Broncos Buzz
All Things Broncos >> Broncos release RB LenDale White buzztap.com/-MM5mVi


Not sure what I think of this. Either Jeremiah Johnson is looking good or Lance Ball is. Still not sure since we are going to be a running team.

BroncoNut
08-16-2011, 11:05 AM
I didn't know he was in jail

PAINTERDAVE
08-16-2011, 11:05 AM
Tis move was pretty much expected..
they are only gonna keep 4.

It is good for him..
he can maybe catch on with another team.

Yeah, Jerimiah Johnson is wowing them...
and can be on special teams, too.

silkamilkamonico
08-16-2011, 11:07 AM
Jeremiah Johnson better be a keeper. he brings an element to our RB's than none of the other guys have.

I don't care how "good" Lance Ball looks in preseason. He's a "blah" NF RB and shouldn't be on any active roster.

UnderArmour
08-16-2011, 11:08 AM
JJ looked good in the game and Lendale and Ball looked meh rushing the football. Ball can catch though. Coaches decided to make the decision early and keep JJ over White.

NightTerror218
08-16-2011, 11:09 AM
JJ looked good in the game and Lendale and Ball looked meh rushing the football. Ball can catch though. Coaches decided to make the decision early and keep JJ over White.

Who was the other UFA we picked up that got injured and ended his season? HE looked good at practice before the injury.

underrated29
08-16-2011, 11:10 AM
Too bad, I think white was going to do real well here. But I guess missing all that time with the spasms in his back he did not get a chance to showcase anything. he didnt do jack in preseason, but really he didnt have blocking either.


eh- im slightly sad to see him go because I think he would have done really well here this year. When I saw him he looked really good, but whatevs. Its not like he was going to rush for over 500 yards with us anyway.

underrated29
08-16-2011, 11:11 AM
and Im with you guys. I think ball sucks.

NightTerror218
08-16-2011, 11:13 AM
Too bad, I think white was going to do real well here. But I guess missing all that time with the spasms in his back he did not get a chance to showcase anything. he didnt do jack in preseason, but really he didnt have blocking either.


eh- im slightly sad to see him go because I think he would have done really well here this year. When I saw him he looked really good, but whatevs. Its not like he was going to rush for over 500 yards with us anyway.

I didnt think he was going to recover after his last injury last season

jhildebrand
08-16-2011, 11:14 AM
The bottom line is after the starting and back up RB's any others on the roster better be playing ST's.

I doubt White was chomping at the bit to play ST's.

SOCALORADO.
08-16-2011, 11:17 AM
Its so hard to come back from an achilles tear and be productive.
JJ looks good though.

Dzone
08-16-2011, 11:17 AM
Jeremiah Johnson, just because of the cool name.
Seriously, he looked impressive. Maybe Studesville is the guru of running backs now like Bobby Turner...

Dzone
08-16-2011, 11:19 AM
Yes, achilles tears are very often the end of a career. I will be surprised of demaryous thomas ever amounts to anything. Thanks Mcdaniels

jhildebrand
08-16-2011, 11:21 AM
Yes, achilles tears are very often the end of a career. I will be surprised of demaryous thomas ever amounts to anything. Thanks Mcdaniels

I think DT could still have a very productive career. It will probably be different though because of the injury. His build and length will help him tremendously but if he loses that speed/burst, it will simply be different.

PAINTERDAVE
08-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Jeremiah Johnson better be a keeper. he brings an element to our RB's than none of the other guys have.

I don't care how "good" Lance Ball looks in preseason. He's a "blah" NF RB and shouldn't be on any active roster.

Ball is another special teamer...
and the talk is he is proficiant in many areas...

Our lead RB has great instinctual vision and "sees" the lanes...
but wont be able to be an every down back...

wheras Moreno is mostly a good pass catcher and does not
"see" the holes and lanes for running... he fails to time his cuts...
and he apparantly does not keep his feet underneath him...
they say he slips and trips a lot on handoffs...
and it is sheer luck when he actually hits an open lane...
rather than him timing his cut to let the play develop and the lane open.


So with the big gun getting say .. 200 carries...
and hitting the holes and lanes hard..
and Moreno getting around 200 tosses....
and doing well after the catch...

we have Ball and Johnson to fill in and play special teams.

Word is Ball is very much able to catch, block, and hit the holes...
apparantly much better than White was.

We are gonna have to make do with what we have I guess....
unless someone comes up on the waiver wire....
then Ball may get cut , too.

I expect we will draft a RB next year...

vandammage13
08-16-2011, 11:39 AM
Yes, achilles tears are very often the end of a career. I will be surprised of demaryous thomas ever amounts to anything. Thanks Mcdaniels

Injuries happen...its part of football and I'm not gonna fault McD for that one. I liked what I saw from DT when he was healthy, and I can see why McD drafted him.

Tough break...

DenBronx
08-16-2011, 12:05 PM
On a bright note, Moreno does look alot better this year. Maybe it's because of the weight he has lost or maybe it's because he feels McGahee is a threat? I'm not sure but whatever it is he looks ready to live up to being a 1st rounder for us.

It's still possible we watch who gets dropped by another team and end up cutting Ball. We will go into the season with 4 RB's.

And I think JJ will win the 3rd slot by the end of preseason. He will be a weapon one day.

OrangeHoof
08-16-2011, 12:08 PM
Too bad, LenWhale. Have a donut.

TXBRONC
08-16-2011, 12:29 PM
Jeremiah Johnson better be a keeper. he brings an element to our RB's than none of the other guys have.

I don't care how "good" Lance Ball looks in preseason. He's a "blah" NF RB and shouldn't be on any active roster.

If he's not a keeper Silk I'm holding you accountable for him not being so. I hope you're ok with that. :D

TXBRONC
08-16-2011, 12:34 PM
On a bright note, Moreno does look alot better this year. Maybe it's because of the weight he has lost or maybe it's because he feels McGahee is a threat? I'm not sure but whatever it is he looks ready to live up to being a 1st rounder for us.

It's still possible we watch who gets dropped by another team and end up cutting Ball. We will go into the season with 4 RB's.

And I think JJ will win the 3rd slot by the end of preseason. He will be a weapon one day.

I think we picked up McGahee after Moreno had already reported. Who knows maybe Moreno was motivated to get into better shape because EFX didn't draft so they don't have anything invested in him.

broncofaninfla
08-16-2011, 12:40 PM
Curious to see who Denver signs with the open spot. Tank Johnson maybe?

underrated29
08-16-2011, 12:48 PM
Curious to see who Denver signs with the open spot. Tank Johnson maybe?



I want Fat Albert.

No matter how much I hate him and have never wanted him here. He is a good player and even at 20% he is better than anyone we have by 20%...Plus he, von and doom is a great way to pressure QBs.


If not him I hope its some CB, any CB, even lenny effing walls, to replace nathan jones.

Lonestar
08-16-2011, 12:55 PM
Ball is another special teamer...
and the talk is he is proficiant in many areas...

Our lead RB has great instinctual vision and "sees" the lanes...
but wont be able to be an every down back...

wheras Moreno is mostly a good pass catcher and does not
"see" the holes and lanes for running... he fails to time his cuts...
and he apparantly does not keep his feet underneath him...
they say he slips and trips a lot on handoffs...
and it is sheer luck when he actually hits an open lane...
rather than him timing his cut to let the play develop and the lane open.


So with the big gun getting say .. 200 carries...
and hitting the holes and lanes hard..
and Moreno getting around 200 tosses....
and doing well after the catch...

we have Ball and Johnson to fill in and play special teams.

Word is Ball is very much able to catch, block, and hit the holes...
apparantly much better than White was.

We are gonna have to make do with what we have I guess....
unless someone comes up on the waiver wire....
then Ball may get cut , too.

I expect we will draft a RB next year...

might want to revise that as that would mean he is catching about 100 balls @50% completetion a shade over 6 a game..or almost 8 @60%
Not going to happen..

hotcarl
08-16-2011, 12:57 PM
lance balls sucks we should hire pouncey or frank nuellen if he gets cut or hurt or killed

dogfish
08-16-2011, 01:34 PM
good riddance to bad garbage. . .


:welcome:


we didn't need him anyway. . . moreno and mcgahee are both productive short yardage runners, and johnson looks like a solid change of pace who might steal carries as the season progresses. . .

too bad we didn't get a real fullback. . . .

Nomad
08-16-2011, 01:37 PM
good riddance to bad garbage. . .


:welcome:


we didn't need him anyway. . . moreno and mcgahee are both productive short yardage runners, and johnson looks like a solid change of pace who might steal carries as the season progresses. . .

too bad we didn't get a real fullback. . . .

I hear the Ravens are lovin Leach!

underrated29
08-16-2011, 01:42 PM
I hear the Ravens are lovin Leach!

I hear the chefs are lovin mclain!

Nomad
08-16-2011, 01:45 PM
I hear the chefs are lovin mclain!

damn! i wondered where that dude went to .

dogfish
08-16-2011, 01:47 PM
i'm sure they both are. . . and it chaps my ass that the chefs got mcclain on a one-year deal while we dicked around with five backup tight ends. . .


nonetheless, i think our running game will still be one of the few relative bright spots-- at least compared to the giant black hole of FAIL that mcdaniels tried to call a "run game". . .

not exactly going out on a limb, i know . . . .

silkamilkamonico
08-16-2011, 01:55 PM
If he's not a keeper Silk I'm holding you accountable for him not being so. I hope you're ok with that. :D

Yes absolutely..

I really think he can be a Michael Goodson type player for Denver. He isn't as fast but he's about as explosive and shifty as Goodson.

Jsteve01
08-16-2011, 02:09 PM
Jeremiah Johnson, just because of the cool name.
Seriously, he looked impressive. Maybe Studesville is the guru of running backs now like Bobby Turner...

Jeremiah Johnson was good long before He met Studes, he split time with Jonathan Stewart and Blount at Oregon. His problem has always been injuries. he honestly has better running skills than KnoMo, but he's a little rusty.

Northman
08-16-2011, 02:13 PM
Not shocked. He somehow became a fan favorite in his short stint here but he just wasnt that good of a back.

tomjonesrocks
08-16-2011, 02:20 PM
Not shocked. He somehow became a fan favorite in his short stint here but he just wasnt that good of a back.

This. I think people very questionably hoped lendale would replace what was lost with Hillis.

That would be a 'no'.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-16-2011, 02:35 PM
This. I think people very questionably hoped lendale would replace what was lost with Hillis.

That would be a 'no'.

Most thought Lendale could be more what was "lacking" with Moreno and could be a short-yardage/power back. Signing McGahee made White expendable.

dogfish
08-16-2011, 02:55 PM
Most thought Lendale could be more what was "lacking" with Moreno and could be a short-yardage/power back. Signing McGahee made White expendable.

HP, we gotta dispell this myth-- for all his faults (there are lots), moreno isn't lacking as a short yardage runner. . . he's been an effective goal line back-- who cares if he looks like jerome bettis, as long as it gets in the end zone?

bcbronc
08-16-2011, 03:07 PM
this was pretty predictable after McGahee signed...no need for three backs that are most effective between the tackles, especially when none have the speed to get to the edge. JJ offers something different compared to Moreno and Willis, and imo makes for a pretty well-rounded backfield.

Until McGahee and Moreno end up on the injury report anyway.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-16-2011, 03:35 PM
HP, we gotta dispell this myth-- for all his faults (there are lots), moreno isn't lacking as a short yardage runner. . . he's been an effective goal line back-- who cares if he looks like jerome bettis, as long as it gets in the end zone?

Oh I completely agree, but the consensus around here is that Moreno sucks because he's too slow for a scat back and too small for a power back. I've tried to hold judgment until we have an offense that actually tries to establish the run.

sneakers
08-16-2011, 04:06 PM
He was still on the team?

Bosco
08-16-2011, 06:07 PM
too bad we didn't get a real fullback. . . .

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The Erhardt-Perkins offense is primarily a single back offense. Fullbacks are basically a novelty.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-16-2011, 06:17 PM
I wouldn't worry about it too much. The Erhardt-Perkins offense is primarily a single back offense. Fullbacks are basically a novelty.

I honestly don't think we'll be running McDaniels' old offense this year. Did McCoy draw some from it and keep about 75% of the terminology? Yes, but I think you can see from the first preseason game that we're going to spend a lot more time with the power "I" formation and a FB leading the way for the Tailback.

Thank Goodness.

Lancane
08-16-2011, 06:54 PM
I honestly don't think we'll be running McDaniels' old offense this year. Did McCoy draw some from it and keep about 75% of the terminology? Yes, but I think you can see from the first preseason game that we're going to spend a lot more time with the power "I" formation and a FB leading the way for the Tailback.

Thank Goodness.



Parcells ran the Erhardt-Perkins offensive system during his pro coaching years, which is where Weis originally learned it.[citation needed] Many teams coached by members of the Parcells-Belichick coaching tree currently use this system, such as Notre Dame during Weis' tenure. The Pittsburgh Steelers also continued to run this system during the Bill Cowher years, from when Ron Erhardt was their offensive coordinator.[6] The Carolina Panthers run this system as well, under Jeff Davidson, a former Belichick assistant. The Kansas City Chiefs adopted this system with the 2007 hiring of Chan Gailey as offensive coordinator.[7] The Denver Broncos adopted this system with the 2009 hiring of Josh McDaniels, who served as offensive coordinator under Belichick from 2006 through 2008.

McCoy's only real offensive experience was in both those regimes and under both of those coaches...I don't see him adding parts of Coryell or the West Coast, he could use some plays considered part of the 'Air Erhardt', but more then likely we'll see mostly the Erhardt - Perkins, or other Weis based spread offenses, but the core of the playbook will remain the same.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-16-2011, 07:09 PM
McCoy's only real offensive experience was in both those regimes and under both of those coaches...I don't see him adding parts of Coryell or the West Coast, he could use some plays considered part of the 'Air Erhardt', but more then likely we'll see mostly the Erhardt - Perkins, or other Weis based spread offenses, but the core of the playbook will remain the same.

I just don't see Fox running a whole lot of Erhardt - Perkins "spread" offense. Especially if he wants to run the ball with any consistency. Fox loves the running game and uses the FB quite often. Not like Belichick or McDaniels who only really use one in goal-line sets.

Can you remember a time in Carolina where he used 3, 4, and 5 WRs regularly (other than on 3rd and long)? I can't. Sure lots of guys come up under the same systems or share coaching trees, but most develop their own playbook. Shanahan's version of the "West Coast" offense was drastically different than Bill Walsh's. Walsh's used the short, quick pass to set up the run and even as a replacement for the running game. It rarely used the shotgun formation at all. Shanahan's relied heavily on the run and zone blocking/misdirection to set up play action and the bootleg. Shanahan's was designed on pulling a Safety down into the box with the run and then throwing over the top. It was a much more intermediate to deep passing attack than the traditional West Coast.

The Air Coryell, West Coast, and Erhardt - Perkins aren't the only "schemes" out there. I'd be willing to bet our offense will resemble more of what Shanahan's did with the run (zone read scheme) and what Carolina did with the pass than McDaniels' offense.

Lancane
08-16-2011, 08:21 PM
I just don't see Fox running a whole lot of Erhardt - Perkins "spread" offense. Especially if he wants to run the ball with any consistency. Fox loves the running game and uses the FB quite often. Not like Belichick or McDaniels who only really use one in goal-line sets.

Can you remember a time in Carolina where he used 3, 4, and 5 WRs regularly (other than on 3rd and long)? I can't. Sure lots of guys come up under the same systems or share coaching trees, but most develop their own playbook. Shanahan's version of the "West Coast" offense was drastically different than Bill Walsh's. Walsh's used the short, quick pass to set up the run and even as a replacement for the running game. It rarely used the shotgun formation at all. Shanahan's relied heavily on the run and zone blocking/misdirection to set up play action and the bootleg. Shanahan's was designed on pulling a Safety down into the box with the run and then throwing over the top. It was a much more intermediate to deep passing attack than the traditional West Coast.

The Air Coryell, West Coast, and Erhardt - Perkins aren't the only "schemes" out there. I'd be willing to bet our offense will resemble more of what Shanahan's did with the run (zone read scheme) and what Carolina did with the pass than McDaniels' offense.

Fox isn't running the offense, McCoy is and he's playing (shooting) from the hip. He's only real experience has been under those coaches using a variants of those offenses. Think about what you just said and the fact that we know that it's been reported that we're keeping McDaniels' terminology, that speaks volumes HP, because every offensive system uses a set terminology, they can not be crossed and work successfully. Does that mean we won't see some plays based off systems such as the Power-I, Air-Erhardt, Pro Set, Run & Shoot, Pistol, Coryell or even the West Coast? No, because a good OC knows how to incorporate other successful offenses into his system, but...there is a limit to how much a scheme will change when that same said OC has his majority of experience with one or two base offenses. A great offensive coordinator is a student of the game, knows more then one or two offenses and can incorporate different aspects of each to his offense. McCoy has really even less then you would like, he got the job because he knows Fox and he was under the OC Fox had who ran the Erhardt - Perkins, Fox may not really grasp how limited McCoy's offense may be.

dogfish
08-16-2011, 08:32 PM
I wouldn't worry about it too much. The Erhardt-Perkins offense is primarily a single back offense. Fullbacks are basically a novelty.


Fox isn't running the offense, McCoy is and he's playing (shooting) from the hip. He's only real experience has been under those coaches using a variants of those offenses. Think about what you just said and the fact that we know that it's been reported that we're keeping McDaniels' terminology, that speaks volumes HP, because every offensive system uses a set terminology, they can not be crossed and work successfully. Does that mean we won't see some plays based off systems such as the Power-I, Air-Erhardt, Pro Set, Run & Shoot, Pistol, Coryell or even the West Coast? No, because a good OC knows how to incorporate other successful offenses into his system, but...there is a limit to how much a scheme will change when that same said OC has his majority of experience with one or two base offenses. A great offensive coordinator is a student of the game, knows more then one or two offenses and can incorporate different aspects of each to his offense. McCoy has really even less then you would like, he got the job because he knows Fox and he was under the OC Fox had who ran the Erhardt - Perkins, Fox may not really grasp how limited McCoy's offense may be.

didn't they use a fullback an awful lot in carolina?

i know brad hoover was a big part of their offense. . .


it is obvious from the way we're stocking up that we're going to run a ton of two-TE (i'm sure it'll be our base set). . . but even if we don't use the fullback a ton, it's no excuse to not have the best one you can get. . . partcularly when we had a chance to get leron mcclain, who greatly increases your depth and diversity because he's an effective tailback as well as a fullback. . .


oh well. . .

TXBRONC
08-16-2011, 08:39 PM
Not shocked. He somehow became a fan favorite in his short stint here but he just wasnt that good of a back.

He was having a good camp last year until he got hurt. At anyrate it's not surprising that he got cut.

Juriga72
08-16-2011, 08:40 PM
Did he go back to the tequllia?

HORSEPOWER 56
08-16-2011, 08:53 PM
Did he go back to the tequllia?

Tequila? :confused: I hadn't heard that. You're not mistaking him with Maurice "on that Grey Goose" Clarett are you?

Juriga72
08-16-2011, 09:10 PM
Tequila? :confused: I hadn't heard that. You're not mistaking him with Maurice "on that Grey Goose" Clarett are you?

Last year Lendale said he lost weight cause he quit tequllia...


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Forget-Atkins-LenDale-Weight-lost-30-pounds-wit?urn=nfl-180265

Bosco
08-17-2011, 05:27 AM
I just don't see Fox running a whole lot of Erhardt - Perkins "spread" offense. Especially if he wants to run the ball with any consistency. Fox loves the running game and uses the FB quite often. Not like Belichick or McDaniels who only really use one in goal-line sets.

The Erhardt-Perkins offense and Josh's spread offense are vastly different in their rules and application. While they both use the same terminology, and are subsequently grouped together, the reality is that they are completely different offenses. Charlie Weis' offense pretty much occupies the middle ground between the two, and I'm guessing that is about where we'll end up at. While Fox can talk about "run run run" all he wants, the reality is that the NFL is a very pass happy league and 3 wide receiver base sets are the norm now. Fox is too smart of a coach to scrap one of the best passing offenses in the NFL just for the sake of sticking to his dogma, especially with the abundance of talent we have at the WR position.

And let's not forget that running a "spread" does not necessarily preclude you from having a power running game. Just look at Pittsburgh for proof. They've run the E/P since...basically forever...and the current variant uses quite a few 3 and 4 wide sets without much sacrifice to the running game.


didn't they use a fullback an awful lot in carolina?

i know brad hoover was a big part of their offense. . . Hoover was actually a holdover from the George Seifert era where they ran a WCO and then Air Coryell under Fox's first couple years. Had he not established himself as a very solid player in those offenses it's unlikely he would have had the role he did in the E/P offense.


it is obvious from the way we're stocking up that we're going to run a ton of two-TE (i'm sure it'll be our base set). . . but even if we don't use the fullback a ton, it's no excuse to not have the best one you can get. . . partcularly when we had a chance to get leron mcclain, who greatly increases your depth and diversity because he's an effective tailback as well as a fullback. . . McClain would have been a solid option. Most E/P "fullbacks" are really just converted running backs like Patrick Pass, Sammy Morris and even Brad Hoover. These are guys that run, block and catch passes equally well. That is a good way of doing it IMO provided you have a couple blocking tight ends that you can use as de facto H-backs on the goal line.

hotcarl
08-17-2011, 11:07 AM
LenDale White? More like BenFail Tight - this Ben Stiller wannabe should hit the gym before he gets a cramp in his bottom