Elway works with Tebow after practice

[Bullgator]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15442993/tebow-puts-in-the-hard-work-but-will-it-pay-off/rss

[Clipworthy]

he waits till now to go out there with him? lol...

[PAINTERDAVE]

Seems to me that Elway is interested in Helping Tim be the best he can be...
because once Orton goes into the tank.. Tebow will get his shot.

It makes sense that John wants to prepare Tebow as best he can...
so that they can make the assesment they need to make...
and then we will not be in this same QB quandry next season...

Orton will be gone after riding the pine for the second half of the season...
Tebow will have some experience on
which to base an assesment of his talent...
and in 2012 we will be moving forward
in the direction best for the team.

Either way... I wont be surprised if we draft a new QB...
to compete with Tim..
to learn under him..
to back him up if he turns out good...
to replace him if he flops.

__________________________________________________ ___

I think Quinn is destined to be a career backup at this point..
and I daresay he is ok with that...
a la Gary Kubiak...
collect millions and stay healthy and prepare for coaching.

[PAINTERDAVE]

he waits till now to go out there with him? lol...

Well.. the lockout was only settled recently...
and it is a bit unusual for a Vice President of operations to
step into the realm of "coaching"...
this move speaks to the close working relationship EFX has...


Is there any precedent for such a move?

Two unique people...
Elway the Hall of Famer...
in the FO yet coaching
Tebow the winningest College QB...


I see it as quite a unique and positive development...

[claymore]

he waits till now to go out there with him? lol...

Elway shouldnt even have to go out there.

[DSMBronco]

Why not? How many times do you see retired players helping out the younger kids. Rod Smith did it last year with the recievers, Deion Sanders does it every single year with the labeled "bad boys" of the collegiate level. Who cares that John Elway decided to give the kid a helping hand. John is a good guy, always has been, this just continues to show John's character.

[sneakers]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....how cute.

[Dirk]

Actually a very good article and spot on IMO.

[Dzone]

Good article. Glad to hear Elway is helping out.
Next, we will hear some sportswriter asking Orton and Quinn what they think of Tebow getting extra coaching by the boss. Just to try and stir up some shit. Woody Paige would do that

[TXBRONC]

Elway shouldnt even have to go out there.

Elway got tired of waiting on you and Top to get your asses out there to help. :D

[JaxBroncoGirl]

After reading this article, sat back and said I wonder who is going to be negative on this forum about the actual article? Quinn lovers, Orton lovers (not many)? How come you cannot see the strength of Tebow, his determination alone should replace Orton a VETERAN that does not seek to get himself better. Elway is out there with Tebow because Tebow was still there an hour after practice trying to be better. Where is the fearless leader? At home!!! One day I hope Tebow proves all the neysayers wrong, starting with 1/3 of the Broncos fans.

[BroncoNut]

After reading this article, sat back and said I wonder who is going to be negative on this forum about the actual article? Quinn lovers, Orton lovers (not many)? How come you cannot see the strength of Tebow, his determination alone should replace Orton a VETERAN that does not seek to get himself better. Elway is out there with Tebow because Tebow was still there an hour after practice trying to be better. Where is the fearless leader? At home!!! One day I hope Tebow proves all the neysayers wrong, starting with 1/3 of the Broncos fans.

I refuse to fall in love with Tebow because of his charachter, but in regard to making this organization a winner, I hope so too. I hope so too

[Npba900]

Seems to me that Elway is interested in Helping Tim be the best he can be...
because once Orton goes into the tank.. Tebow will get his shot.

It makes sense that John wants to prepare Tebow as best he can...
so that they can make the assesment they need to make...
and then we will not be in this same QB quandry next season...

Orton will be gone after riding the pine for the second half of the season...
Tebow will have some experience on
which to base an assesment of his talent...
and in 2012 we will be moving forward
in the direction best for the team.

Either way... I wont be surprised if we draft a new QB...
to compete with Tim..
to learn under him..
to back him up if he turns out good...
to replace him if he flops.

__________________________________________________ ___

I think Quinn is destined to be a career backup at this point..
and I daresay he is ok with that...
a la Gary Kubiak...
collect millions and stay healthy and prepare for coaching.

I think Elway is helping Tebow so as to get a clearer understanding from his own perspective on whether Tim really has the accumen, fundamentals, and correct throwing mechanics to move forward. Elway will not take Tebow under his wing again in 2012-2013. Tim had better take advantage of Elway's personal tutoring thats for sure. Hats off to Elway.

However, at the same time Elway is well aware of the number of QB's that are available in the 2012 draft that will be QB ready to play in the NFL without the problems that Tebow currently has with throwing mechanics, and fundamental issues from within the pocket, accuracy and reading defenses, etc., entering into his 2nd season.

Elway could also be working with Tebow to get Tim as close to the next level to play in the NFL so as to get draft(s) picks should the realization arise that Tebow is not a franchise QB.

The reality is, Tebow may also become a "A La" career backup like Gary Kubiak.

[MileHighCrew]

I refuse to fall in love with Tebow because of his charachter, but in regard to making this organization a winner, I hope so too. I hope so too

I agree, I want him to succeed, but I am not going to be a Tebow fan above being a Broncos fan. If he develops GREAT, if not, chalk him up to another McDummy move and move on.
It is really easy to cheer for Tebow when I see him taking a kid out for a day or when he talks about the extra hours he will put in, I love it. It is harder to cheer for him though when he bounces in a 5 yard out and misses by 3 yards.
I hope Elway can help him figure it out, but I am concerned that the President of Football Operations has to also be a QB coach.

[Npba900]

Well.. the lockout was only settled recently...
and it is a bit unusual for a Vice President of operations to
step into the realm of "coaching"...
this move speaks to the close working relationship EFX has...


Is there any precedent for such a move?

Two unique people...
Elway the Hall of Famer...
in the FO yet coaching
Tebow the winningest College QB...

I see it as quite a unique and positive development...

Question I have is what does the lock out have to do with Tebow working on his throwing mechanical flaws, his foot work issues when dropping back from behind center, throwing from the pocket accurately and making the correct reads from the pocket, and watching film to improve reading defenses.

A QB drafted in the 1st round should NOT have all the learning curve issues and fundamentally mechanical flaws that Tebow is currently showing in his second year in the NFL.

Tebow maybe the winningest QB in college football history, however, he did not achieve that level by playing in a QB NFL style Offense.

We don't know for sure, but Elway could be working with Tebow in the hopes of correcting all of Tebow's flaws to improve his eventual trade value.

[Agent of Orange]

Elway shouldnt even have to go out there.

Right, because Elway has so much more experience with other things.

[TXBRONC]

After reading this article, sat back and said I wonder who is going to be negative on this forum about the actual article? Quinn lovers, Orton lovers (not many)? How come you cannot see the strength of Tebow, his determination alone should replace Orton a VETERAN that does not seek to get himself better. Elway is out there with Tebow because Tebow was still there an hour after practice trying to be better. Where is the fearless leader? At home!!! One day I hope Tebow proves all the neysayers wrong, starting with 1/3 of the Broncos fans.

Quinn lovers? I can't say I've ever seen such an animal in these parts. :D

If determination was enough then yeah Tebow would start. That just isn't the case. Orton looks better in camp which really isn't a surprise the coaches see that so does the rest of the team. Now do they have the kind of belief in him that they're never out of game with him a quarterback? I doubt it but it's just a guess on my part.

Orton does what's required of him nothing more nothing less. Tebow wont be out worked. He said that when he arrived and he's been a man of his word. That's to his benefit. If he's make it in this League his work ethic will be a huge reason why. But right now he's having to think to much. I don't mean the play book because he's a smart kid. He's having to think to much about his mechanics and it's showing up practice. Working with Elway can only help in that process that's other positive.

[Npba900]

Elway shouldnt even have to go out there.

Elway is out there because he still loves throwing the football around while teaching and without having to suit up for two-a-days and getting hit!!:D

His arm is well rested so I'm sure he's still zinging the ball all over the field with Tebows eyes wide with admiration.:laugh:

[MileHighCrew]

Right, because Elway has so much more experience with other things.

He isn't going to gain experience by acting as a 3rd level coach. Elway has a very important job he could be focusing on.

[Nomad]

Elway shouldnt even have to go out there.

While I agree, I'm sure Elway wants to make every effort to help the guy because if he is unable to help Tebow fix his flaws then who will......I'm assuming that's JE's mindset. Then he'll feel at ease to move on next year looking at another QB!

I still believe he needs to be evaluated in games. The way I see it, some people hate homework but ace the tests. Another cliche is you practice how you play in the game, perhaps Tebow takes a little off in practice!:noidea: I'd like to find out more in live games and if he sucks like you say, then we'll move on.

[Agent of Orange]

Quinn lovers? I can't say I've ever seen such an animal in these parts. :D

If determination was enough then yeah Tebow would start. That just isn't the case. Orton looks better in camp which really isn't a surprise the coaches see that so does the rest of the team. Now do they have the kind of belief in him that they're never out of game with him a quarterback? I doubt it but it's just a guess on my part.

Orton does what's required of him nothing more nothing less. Tebow wont be out worked. He said that when he arrived and he's been a man of his word. That's to his benefit. If he's make it in this League his work ethic will be a huge reason why. But right now he's having to think to much. I don't mean the play book because he's a smart kid. He's having to think to much about his mechanics and it's showing up practice. Working with Elway can only help in that process that's other positive.

It counts more than people want to think. It's just that it counts less when they can't tackle the QB. There has been guys in the league who have played with a lot of grit like Roger Staubach and Steve McNair and there's definitely value to playing with determination.

[TXBRONC]

Elway shouldnt even have to go out there.

Clay it's not a matter of Elway having to go out there he wants to do it. In fact he said when he took the job as V. P. football operation (or whatever the hell his title is) that he looking forward to getting out there and working with the quarterbacks.

[TXBRONC]

It counts more than people want to think. It's just that it counts less when they can't tackle the QB. There has been guys in the league who have played with a lot of grit like Roger Staubach and Steve McNair and there's definitely value to playing with determination.

Yes determination is important and all the great ones have that in common. But all have had to manage the position without having think about their mechanics.

[TXBRONC]

Good article. Glad to hear Elway is helping out.
Next, we will hear some sportswriter asking Orton and Quinn what they think of Tebow getting extra coaching by the boss. Just to try and stir up some shit. Woody Paige would do that

It's possible. It's also possible that Orton comes back with smartass answer on the lines of "I don't comment on what my teammates do in practice."

[Agent of Orange]

He isn't going to gain experience by acting as a 3rd level coach. Elway has a very important job he could be focusing on.

Actually, his job is to kind of be involved with everything. He's supposed to be a guy who can bridge what is happening with the team with what is happening in the front office.

Also, it's kind of amusing that you think he's not capable of structuring his day to make time to do things like this.

[MileHighCrew]

Actually, his job is to kind of be involved with everything. He's supposed to be a guy who can bridge what is happening with the team with what is happening in the front office.

Also, it's kind of amusing that you think he's not capable of structuring his day to make time to do things like this.

No it was a direct responce to you stating Elway doesn't have experience in other areas.Well how is he going to ge that experience.

[shank]

lol there are actually people complaining that john mother****ing elway is helping out our young quarterback?

what in the heckballs, seriously?

[Jsteve01]

Seems to me that Elway is interested in Helping Tim be the best he can be...
because once Orton goes into the tank.. Tebow will get his shot.

It makes sense that John wants to prepare Tebow as best he can...
so that they can make the assesment they need to make...
and then we will not be in this same QB quandry next season...

Orton will be gone after riding the pine for the second half of the season...
Tebow will have some experience on
which to base an assesment of his talent...
and in 2012 we will be moving forward
in the direction best for the team.

Either way... I wont be surprised if we draft a new QB...
to compete with Tim..
to learn under him..
to back him up if he turns out good...
to replace him if he flops.

__________________________________________________ ___

I think Quinn is destined to be a career backup at this point..
and I daresay he is ok with that...
a la Gary Kubiak...
collect millions and stay healthy and prepare for coaching.

Seriously? Quinn has been competing since Pop Werner and you think all the sudden he's ok with being a backup? You don't get to that level without being a competitor. Especially at the qb position. He still has the tool set and from all reports it finally sounds like it's coming together for him. I'd love to see it work out. He's a good guy and a hard worker.

[MileHighCrew]

lol there are actually people complaining that john mother****ing elway is helping out our young quarterback?

what in the heckballs, seriously?

OK, this might not just be at me, but I am not against John Elway working with our young QBs, for the record, I just think it is sad that he has too, there is a difference there.
I think having Elway is a huge advantage and the Broncos should use him in the best way possible.

[shank]

OK, this might not just be at me, but I am not against John Elway working with our young QBs, for the record, I just think it is sad that he has too, there is a difference there.
I think having Elway is a huge advantage and the Broncos should use him in the best way possible.

what is it about him doing it that leads you to believe that he HAS to? :confused:

[BroncoNut]

OK, this might not just be at me, but I am not against John Elway working with our young QBs, for the record, I just think it is sad that he has too, there is a difference there.
I think having Elway is a huge advantage and the Broncos should use him in the best way possible.

it would be sad if he was working with Orton I suppose, but unless I missed something, (didn't read the article), it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

[MileHighCrew]

what is it about him doing it that leads you to believe that he HAS to? :confused:

Considering the lack of progress by Tebow in camp, the investment of the FO and the city into Tebow, the high profile of the player and they tried to trade Orton all lead me to believe John Elway would go out of his way to fix Tebow.
Now this is an admitted guess, but I think with sound logic. It is one thing to go throw the ball around and give some pointers, it is another to work with the player on his flaws.
It is all a guess, something we are all good at.

[MileHighCrew]

it would be sad if he was working with Orton I suppose, but unless I missed something, (didn't read the article), it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

On the contrary, I would think it would make more sense for him to be giving pointers to the starting QB to help the team win games, then helping the back learn how to throw a ball.

I'm not sure it is a big deal, I'm just chatting about it.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Maybe Ted Thompson, Scott Pioli, or Bill Polian will come work out with Elway....

Oh wait, Xanders is the GM. :smh:

[Lonestar]

Elway has the ulitmate responsibility of personnel moves. If The goat wants to send his Personal time helping out who other than Pat can tell him not to.

Why anyone would piss and moan about that is beyond me.

He is doing his job and wanted to see if the kid can progress Into the qb he wants him to be.

John is doing his job.

Last year actually for lots of years now everyone was bellowing bring John in and let him mentor Tebow now some are pissing and moaning.

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[BroncoStud]

Elway mentoring Tebow can't be a bad thing. It's good for Tebow, it's good for John's evaluation of Tebow, and it's good for the Broncos if it pays off.

[BroncoNut]

Elway has the ulitmate responsibility of personnel moves. If The goat wants to send his Personal time helping out who other than Pat can tell him not to.

Why anyone would piss and moan about that is beyond me.

He is doing his job and wanted to see if the kid can progress Into the qb he wants him to be.

John is doing his job.

Last year actually for lots of years now everyone was bellowing bring John in and let him mentor Tebow now some are pissing and moaning.

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Only Clay and Mile High are pissing and moaning.

[Nomad]

Elway mentoring Tebow can't be a bad thing. It's good for Tebow, it's good for John's evaluation of Tebow, and it's good for the Broncos if it pays off.

I believe it's more of an evaluation process for Elway.

[Slick]

I remember Rav telling me Elway would be too busy.

If Elway thought Tebow was beyond hope I doubt he'd be doing this.

[MileHighCrew]

I agree, I want him to succeed, but I am not going to be a Tebow fan above being a Broncos fan. If he develops GREAT, if not, chalk him up to another McDummy move and move on.
It is really easy to cheer for Tebow when I see him taking a kid out for a day or when he talks about the extra hours he will put in, I love it. It is harder to cheer for him though when he bounces in a 5 yard out and misses by 3 yards.
I hope Elway can help him figure it out, but I am concerned that the President of Football Operations has to also be a QB coach.

as I stated before.

[pnbronco]

I believe it's more of an evaluation process for Elway.

I think so too Nomad.

[BroncoNut]

I agree, I want him to succeed, but I am not going to be a Tebow fan above being a Broncos fan. If he develops GREAT, if not, chalk him up to another McDummy move and move on.
It is really easy to cheer for Tebow when I see him taking a kid out for a day or when he talks about the extra hours he will put in, I love it. It is harder to cheer for him though when he bounces in a 5 yard out and misses by 3 yards.
I hope Elway can help him figure it out, but I am concerned that the President of Football Operations has to also be a QB coach.

as I stated before.

This seems to be a duplicate post of one you made earlier in the thread.

[MileHighCrew]

it is I was restating my post for those who don't read back

[TXBRONC]

I guess this bares repeating. When Elway took the job as V.P. he said he looking forward helping in this capacity. He wants to do it and there is nothing wrong it.

[HammeredOut]

When Elway made this move, some people might speculate, that a Kyle Orton trade is back on the burner. Since Elway wants to see if Tebow has any skill, up close and personal. Elway maybe, looking to see its going to be a 2-14 kind of season he needs to draft Luck, or an 0-16 which he doesn't want. Either way I think it has something to do with, him knowing his best guy Ty Warren is out, and his chances to become competitive just got flushed down the toilet.

[TXBRONC]

I believe it's more of an evaluation process for Elway.

I have no doubt it will figure into his thinking. But I doubt that is his main motavation. As mentioned a couple times before he said he was going to work with quarterbacks when he took the job. This isn't out of the blue.

[claymore]

Only Clay and Mile High are pissing and moaning.

I dont give a shit if Elway works out with him. I was just taken back by the comment that "he waits till now to go work out with him? LOL". Like Elway should have been doing this all along.

[Krugan]

Would be a shame if Elway were just trying to improve the level of play on this team....


Why so much reaction to this?

I think its great, that the former great, is taking the time to help whomever. Wish he could talk the #1 into some extra work though.

[BroncoWave]

When Elway made this move, some people might speculate, that a Kyle Orton trade is back on the burner. Since Elway wants to see if Tebow has any skill, up close and personal. Elway maybe, looking to see its going to be a 2-14 kind of season he needs to draft Luck, or an 0-16 which he doesn't want. Either way I think it has something to do with, him knowing his best guy Ty Warren is out, and his chances to become competitive just got flushed down the toilet.

Ty Warren getting hurt doesn't flush our chances of being competitive down the toilet. That is ridiculous.

[Lonestar]

Would be a shame if Elway were just trying to improve the level of play on this team....


Why so much reaction to this?

I think its great, that the former great, is taking the time to help whomever. Wish he could talk the #1 into some extra work though.

Don't you know by now naysayers rule here.

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[Ravage!!!]

he waits till now to go out there with him? lol...

He's not a coach. ANYTHING Elway can do when working with a player....is a BONUS. Its not exected (except by the fans), and its certainly not going to be a regular thing.

Lets understand that.

[BroncoNut]

I dont give a shit if Elway works out with him. I was just taken back by the comment that "he waits till now to go work out with him? LOL". Like Elway should have been doing this all along.

ohh.. yeah, I can see where that was out of line. Like Elway is expected to work with him. It was probably Jags, gatorgirl, or someother Tebownite. Or no, wait, anybody but them because Tim Tebow doesn't need to be worked with because he is so perfect.

[Lonestar]

Let me add for those that do not have a clue.

Every interaction you have with supervisors, managers, owners. Is an evaluation of some sort.

Every game film review, team meeting, coaching monment is also an evaluation.

So John taking some time to help him out had two meanings. He has a vested interest in the kid wants to see him suceed and he was evaling him while doing so.

Johns hoping he does not have to WASTE another top pick on yet another QB.

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[Ravage!!!]

Actually, his job is to kind of be involved with everything. He's supposed to be a guy who can bridge what is happening with the team with what is happening in the front office.

Also, it's kind of amusing that you think he's not capable of structuring his day to make time to do things like this.

I think its amusing that you think its his job to coach. Its not his job. Its not his duty, and its NOT his responsibility. He has the capability, to let the coaches do THEIR jobs. He's responsible enough to hire people to do THIS job, so that he can do HIS job. Its MUCh more effecient and productive, than to try and do everything.

I find it amusing that you believe Elway SHOULD be scheduling to do this.

[Agent of Orange]

I dont give a shit if Elway works out with him. I was just taken back by the comment that "he waits till now to go work out with him? LOL". Like Elway should have been doing this all along.

Quite honestly, if Elway working with Tebow can have an affect on having a decent, good, or great QB, then there arent a lot of things Elway could be doing that are more worthwhile.

[Agent of Orange]

I think its amusing that you think its his job to coach. Its not his job. Its not his duty, and its NOT his responsibility. He has the capability, to let the coaches do THEIR jobs. He's responsible enough to hire people to do THIS job, so that he can do HIS job. Its MUCh more effecient and productive, than to try and do everything.

I find it amusing that you believe Elway SHOULD be scheduling to do this.

I think your reading comprehension is amusing.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Seriously? Quinn has been competing since Pop Werner and you think all the sudden he's ok with being a backup? You don't get to that level without being a competitor. Especially at the qb position. He still has the tool set and from all reports it finally sounds like it's coming together for him. I'd love to see it work out. He's a good guy and a hard worker.

This has been discussed on the sports talk around town...

Quinn seems quite happy to sit back and be the backup...

and there is a lot of money to be made doing so..

a careeer backup stays healthy...
has a LONG career earning a lot of money..
learns the game inside and out..
and often moves into the realm of coaching...
so that he can stay in the game forever..

like Kubiak has done...
another guy who played pop warner football as well.

And you never know.. sometimes being the backup..
a guy suddenly gets called on to serve..
and is then thrust into the spotlight.

Quinn seems to be into acceptance of his role now...
but, yeah...
the future is unwritten.

[Bullgator]

I refuse to fall in love with Tebow because of his charachter, but in regard to making this organization a winner, I hope so too. I hope so too

That's because your priorities are ****** up. IMO to root for a man because he plays a kids game well or for logo/colors over his character is moronic and speaks to what kind of society we are. Pretty shameful IMO.

[Agent of Orange]

Would be a shame if Elway were just trying to improve the level of play on this team....


Why so much reaction to this?

I think its great, that the former great, is taking the time to help whomever. Wish he could talk the #1 into some extra work though.

Yeah, and Elways ability to traverse the various levels of the organization should be one of his biggest assets. It could remove the "theyre the front office and we're the team" way of thinking and make the organization as a whole think in terms of "we". People like being on Elway's side. One of the best ways for that to work is when the suits think he is one of them and the players feel the same way.

[MileHighCrew]

That's because your priorities are ****** up. IMO to root for a man because he plays a kids game well or for logo/colors over his character is moronic and speaks to what kind of society we are. Pretty shameful IMO.

you chose to follow the violent game of football because of all the high character individuals playing the game????
I loved football long before Tebow was born, it had nothing to do with a players character, honestly I am old enough that I didn't know anything about their character and it wasn't reported on. I fell in love with the game and watching the freak athletes that play it.
I love this kids game and I love the Broncos, even if that is moronic.

[LordTrychon]

That's because your priorities are ****** up. IMO to root for a man because he plays a kids game well or for logo/colors over his character is moronic and speaks to what kind of society we are. Pretty shameful IMO.

Wrong.

There are plenty of great people out there that you haven't even heard of that you're not going to be rooting for.

When most people watch football, they don't watch it to see how good of a person each of their players are. You want to have good people, and at least not bad people... but you don't root for them to be good people.

I'll go to mass for that. I'm rooting for my team to win. That's what I'll root for in Tim Tebow. I'm glad he's a good person though. That makes it much easier. If he throws in the dirt all the time, I'll wish him well in his future endeavors.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Actually, his job is to kind of be involved with everything. He's supposed to be a guy who can bridge what is happening with the team with what is happening in the front office.

Also, it's kind of amusing that you think he's not capable of structuring his day to make time to do things like this.

In this case - it was more - "John structuring his NIGHT" As channel 9 is now the official Broncos' station, two weeks ago - on Mondays at 6:00 MST, they started the John Elway Show, which is live. It was on last night. Keep in mind that practice went until 5:00 - SO, John either did this right after practice, or after the John Elway show, which ended at 6:30. ALSO, with Thomas and Warren getting injured yesterday, I would assume that John was involved in trying to figure out "what ifs", in regards to the severity of the injuries. So, it definitely appears that John's plate is FULL - rather than him sitting in his office all day doing NOTHING. I have not attended practice, but for those that have, they can confirm if John is watching practice. If he is, I can't see how he can disrupt practice to pull Tebow aside to work with him, when Tebow needs work practicing with the team.

[Bullgator]

you chose to follow the violent game of football because of all the high character individuals playing the game????
I loved football long before Tebow was born, it had nothing to do with a players character, honestly I am old enough that I didn't know anything about their character and it wasn't reported on. I fell in love with the game and watching the freak athletes that play it.
I love this kids game and I love the Broncos, even if that is moronic.

I choose to appreciate PEOPLE with high character more than the game. I love football as much as anyone but the game itself PALES in comparison to what really matters. The second the game becomes more important that the people who play it then yes, IMHO, that is baffling and moronic.

[TXBRONC]

I think its amusing that you think its his job to coach. Its not his job. Its not his duty, and its NOT his responsibility. He has the capability, to let the coaches do THEIR jobs. He's responsible enough to hire people to do THIS job, so that he can do HIS job. Its MUCh more effecient and productive, than to try and do everything.

I find it amusing that you believe Elway SHOULD be scheduling to do this.

Elway isn't helping Tebow because has too; he's doing it because he wants too. Since it was after practice it doesn't interfere with the coaching staff. I also I don't think it's means he neglecting his other duties. As I Elway made it clear when he took the job that was going spend sometime with quarterbacks.

[TXBRONC]

In this case - it was more - "John structuring his NIGHT" As channel 9 is now the official Broncos' station, two weeks ago - on Mondays at 6:00 MST, they started the John Elway Show, which is live. It was on last night. Keep in mind that practice went until 5:00 - SO, John either did this right after practice, or after the John Elway show, which ended at 6:30. ALSO, with Thomas and Warren getting injured yesterday, I would assume that John was involved in trying to figure out "what ifs", in regards to the severity of the injuries. So, it definitely appears that John's plate is FULL - rather than him sitting in his office all day doing NOTHING. I have not attended practice, but for those that have, they can confirm if John is watching practice. If he is, I can't see how he can disrupt practice to pull Tebow aside to work with him, when Tebow needs work practicing with the team.


I was going to say that to my friend Rav that this took place in the evening but I wasn't sure what time practice ended. All I knew for sure is that it was after practice had ended.

[Agent of Orange]

In this case - it was more - "John structuring his NIGHT" As channel 9 is now the official Broncos' station, two weeks ago - on Mondays at 6:00 MST, they started the John Elway Show, which is live. It was on last night. Keep in mind that practice went until 5:00 - SO, John either did this right after practice, or after the John Elway show, which ended at 6:30. ALSO, with Thomas and Warren getting injured yesterday, I would assume that John was involved in trying to figure out "what ifs", in regards to the severity of the injuries. So, it definitely appears that John's plate is FULL - rather than him sitting in his office all day doing NOTHING. I have not attended practice, but for those that have, they can confirm if John is watching practice. If he is, I can't see how he can disrupt practice to pull Tebow aside to work with him, when Tebow needs work practicing with the team.

Where did I say Elway has nothing to do? Actually what I was saying was more along the lines of, "Elway's perfectly capable of planning his day...so let him". At least we have no reason to believe otherwise.

[broncobryce]

Shanahan had elway talk to cutler too. Difference is tebow didn't ignore elway then say he has a stronger arm.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[TXBRONC]

Where did I say Elway has nothing to do? Actually what I was saying was more along the lines of, "Elway's perfectly capable of planning his day...so let him". At least we have no reason to believe otherwise.

I don't think Carol is criticizing you.

[Ravage!!!]

That's because your priorities are ****** up. IMO to root for a man because he plays a kids game well or for logo/colors over his character is moronic and speaks to what kind of society we are. Pretty shameful IMO.

You don't really know what rooting for a sports team is all about. I guess you follow HS kids and just root for any college that has the 'nicest' guy on the team? No? HOW SHAMEFUL and Hypocritical!!!!!!!!


People root fot their team... period. :coffee:

[MileHighCrew]

I choose to appreciate PEOPLE with high character more than the game. I love football as much as anyone but the game itself PALES in comparison to what really matters. The second the game becomes more important that the people who play it then yes, IMHO, that is baffling and moronic.

I watch the game for entertainment, like I watch movies for the same reason. I want character and quality in my childrens teachers, in the police services and my co-workers in the military.
If Tim Tebow is a great person has no value in what really matters to my family.
The game is bigger than the players, that is why I would side with the owners in the lockout, players come and go, I love the game.

[Bullgator]

Wrong.

There are plenty of great people out there that you haven't even heard of that you're not going to be rooting for.

When most people watch football, they don't watch it to see how good of a person each of their players are. You want to have good people, and at least not bad people... but you don't root for them to be good people.

I'll go to mass for that. I'm rooting for my team to win. That's what I'll root for in Tim Tebow. I'm glad he's a good person though. That makes it much easier. If he throws in the dirt all the time, I'll wish him well in his future endeavors.

I root for each one of them. Believe it or not I root for BQ. IMO hes an outstanding person with the same type of character as Tim. I would love him to make it and start. In my mind there is a much bigger battle going on than just football concerning Tim and that's why I'm so passionate about him o succeed in general.

You guys don't hear me though. It's great to win and watch a sport but its not as important as the people who play it or the epic battle between good and evil. THATS the real game to pick sides on... orange an blue vs silver and black is laughable WHEN COMPAIRED to that.

[Ravage!!!]

Elway isn't helping Tebow because has too; he's doing it because he wants too. Since it was after practice it doesn't interfere with the coaching staff. I also I don't think it's means he neglecting his other duties. As I Elway made it clear when he took the job that was going spend sometime with quarterbacks.

yes. But lets understand that making that statement, was NOT an obligation on his part. He would LIKE to work with the QBs, but that doesn't mean its going to happen, and it doesn't mean its going to happen on a regular basis. FOr people to EXPECT this of John, imo, is just ridiculous.

[Bullgator]

I watch the game for entertainment, like I watch movies for the same reason. I want character and quality in my childrens teachers, in the police services and my co-workers in the military.
If Tim Tebow is a great person has no value in what really matters to my family.
The game is bigger than the players, that is why I would side with the owners in the lockout, players come and go, I love the game.

High profile athletes are the real teachers mile. They have 100 times the influence of a math teacher man. You may not give a shit, which proves my point but rappers, movie stars and athletes are raising our kids these days... (the parents should be doing that but A, they suck at parenting or B, they just dont have the influence over their kids like the high profile people do) Im not saying that every high profile person should be like Tim but for ****s sake its not bad to have him around.

[LordTrychon]

I choose to appreciate PEOPLE with high character more than the game. I love football as much as anyone but the game itself PALES in comparison to what really matters. The second the game becomes more important that the people who play it then yes, IMHO, that is baffling and moronic.

The people are more important than the game.

But we watch for entertainment, not to see good people.

If you want to just watch good people, you'd be better off taking your own video camera down to a soup kitchen.

[MileHighCrew]

High profile athletes are the real teachers mile. They have 100 times the influence of a math teacher man. You may not give a shit, which proves my point but rappers, movie stars and athletes are raising our kids these days... (the parents should be doing that but A, they suck at parenting or B, they just dont have the influence over their kids like the high profile people do) Im not saying that every high profile person should be like Tim but for ****s sake its not bad to have him around.

This was a debate in the freaking 80's Charles Barkley said it, "I am not a role model." I can't control if Perrish Cox rapes a woman or if Brittany Spears becomes the worlds most expensive whore, but I can control what my kids do and better yet talk to them about what they are seeing and watching.

It isn't bad to have Tebow around if he helps the team win, otherwise replace him with someone better. period it is about football.

[BroncoNut]

That's because your priorities are ****** up. IMO to root for a man because he plays a kids game well or for logo/colors over his character is moronic and speaks to what kind of society we are. Pretty shameful IMO.

that is a terrible attitude BG. It's great to admire high character guys on the field, but the organization is ultimately is what I root for. The Denver Broncos symbolize alot of things to alot of people, well into adulthood. Pride for a city, a lifelong love of the game, childhood memories. I personally think it's pretty pathetic when adults root for famous adults because they admire thier personality and blindly follow and support them independent of their idol's affiliations. Pretty childish acutally

[Lonestar]

This has been discussed on the sports talk around town...

Quinn seems quite happy to sit back and be the backup...

and there is a lot of money to be made doing so..

a careeer backup stays healthy...
has a LONG career earning a lot of money..
learns the game inside and out..
and often moves into the realm of coaching...
so that he can stay in the game forever..

like Kubiak has done...
another guy who played pop warner football as well.

And you never know.. sometimes being the backup..
a guy suddenly gets called on to serve..
and is then thrust into the spotlight.

Quinn seems to be into acceptance of his role now...
but, yeah...
the future is unwritten.


Frankly I do not want anyone on the team tha "wants" to be a backup..

While they are needed they need to push the starter.. But I will say in this part Kubes knew he was never going to beat John out. But was ready when he wnet down..

Not sure we have a HOF type QB on teh team yet when we do then I'll accept quinn wanting to be tonto..

[PAINTERDAVE]

I root for my Broncos...

and I always liked the good guys like Ed McAffrey and Rod Smith...
and John Elway...
My boys went to school with Louis Wright son , Evan.
Louie is a fantastic person.

I've never appreciated the idiots like that clown from KC
we picked up on defense back in the day
(Can't recall that idiots name) or
Travis Henry the dope dealing multi baby daddy fool.

Each year we have new guys...
and I like Von Miller a ton better than I like Perrish Cox.

I cringe when our kicker gets busted for a drunken crash with a stripper sitting shotgun...

And a guys like Tim and Brady just bring the whole team up to a higher plane.

It takes all kinds... you gotta take the good with the bad...
and hope the bad ones disapear quick...


Go Boncos!

[BroncoNut]

Frankly I do not want anyone on the team tha "wants" to be a backup..

While they are needed they need to push the starter.. But I will say in this part Kubes knew he was never going to beat John out. But was ready when he wnet down..

Not sure we have a HOF type QB on teh team yet when we do then I'll accept quinn wanting to be tonto..

I would love to be a backup qb on an NFL team. Fans wouldn't like it, but I would

[Bullgator]

The people are more important than the game.

But we watch for entertainment, not to see good people.

If you want to just watch good people, you'd be better off taking your own video camera down to a soup kitchen.

Entertainment at the cost of morality is folly. That's why I say we got our priorities ****** up.

Whats wrong with both? whats wrong with exciting play AND a morally rock solid person all in one?

[NightTerror218]

that my boy Blue

[Bullgator]

that is a terrible attitude BG. It's great to admire high character guys on the field, but the organization is ultimately is what I root for. The Denver Broncos symbolize alot of things to alot of people, well into adulthood. Pride for a city, a lifelong love of the game, childhood memories. I personally think it's pretty pathetic when adults root for famous adults because they admire thier personality and blindly follow and support them independent of their idol's affiliations. Pretty childish acutally

Im not sure you know the definition of "blindly following"... It is you who "blindly follows" an organization no matter what. I do not "blindly follow" anything or anyone. I put great reason and thought into what people I back. And Ill say it again, only a fool would blindly follow a logo OVER the real issue. Its one thing to be a rabid fan, as I know myself to be, its another to be ok with a rapist as your QB as long as he can throw a ball well.

[BroncoNut]

Entertainment at the cost of morality is folly. That's why I say we got our priorities ****** up.

Whats wrong with both? whats wrong with exciting play AND a morally rock solid person all in one?

few fans like the bad guys and most like the hight character guys.

[BroncoNut]

Im not sure you know the definition of "blindly following"... It is you who "blindly follows" an organization no matter what. I do not "blindly follow" anything or anyone. I put great reason and thought into what people I back. And Ill say it again, only a fool would blindly follow a logo OVER the real issue. Its one thing to be a rabid fan, as I know myself to be, its another to be ok with a rapist as your QB as long as he can throw a ball well.

no, I know what blindly follow means BG. You're really turning the subject and your manner of arguing into something else entirely. I'm a bronco fan before I am an individual player fan. I dont' think that's effed up. Sorry. If all your in it for is Tebow, you might want to question yourself. I don't know, I guess I don't really need anyone to look up to right now other than those in my personal life and which I already do. :shrugs:.

[Lonestar]

why are we pissing and moaning about what John should be doing?

He has staff to deal with injured players, you know scouts to find replacements, trainers and Doctors to deal with injuries.. He is the decision maker and until he has a final diagnosis on these injuries and what the scouts can dig up and what his GM has to recommend if the guy feels it is important to help a fellow QB on the field who are we to whine about it..

He knows what his responsibilities are. He does not have to be told by arm-chair GM/HCs what he should be doing..

for that matter FF owners.. Ahahahahahahahahaha

Ownership and managing the day and what happens IS his Job..

If you want to bitch about it Buy the team from Pat and do your best..

[BroncoNut]

I heard that the only reason Elway accepted the position was so he could get into games for free.

[Lonestar]

Originally Posted by Krugan View Post
Would be a shame if Elway were just trying to improve the level of play on this team....


Why so much reaction to this?

I think its great, that the former great, is taking the time to help whomever. Wish he could talk the #1 into some extra work though.
:salute:

Yeah, and Elways ability to traverse the various levels of the organization should be one of his biggest assets. It could remove the "theyre the front office and we're the team" way of thinking and make the organization as a whole think in terms of "we". People like being on Elway's side. One of the best ways for that to work is when the suits think he is one of them and the players feel the same way.

I have always tried to remove the we and them from my work places.. But it hard to do when you have morons working for you..


I would love to be a backup qb on an NFL team. Fans wouldn't like it, but I would

Hell I would take a Mil a year to get hit a couple of thimes in practice..

But we all know that that would not make the team better by having either of us pushing Orton for his spot..:laugh::laugh:

[Lonestar]

few fans like the bad guys and most like the hight character guys.

unless your a raider fan..

degenerates that they are..

actually feel sorry for folks that are born in OAK becasue thet falt do not know anybetter..

I guess ignorance is bliss.

[JaxBroncoGirl]

I agree, I want him to succeed, but I am not going to be a Tebow fan above being a Broncos fan. If he develops GREAT, if not, chalk him up to another McDummy move and move on.
It is really easy to cheer for Tebow when I see him taking a kid out for a day or when he talks about the extra hours he will put in, I love it. It is harder to cheer for him though when he bounces in a 5 yard out and misses by 3 yards.
I hope Elway can help him figure it out, but I am concerned that the President of Football Operations has to also be a QB coach.

We do not have a "perfect" QB on the team. So yeah, I would take Tebow anyday verses what is starting for the team.

[NightTerror218]

Elway mentioned that he would help out the QBs on the team and work with them when he could. Glad he followed through with it. Who would be better to help a young QB then one of the best of all time. Its funny Quinn and Tebow both called Elway as soon as they got to Denver to talk to him. Orton never did.

[BroncoNut]

:salute:


I have always tried to remove the we and them from my work places.. But it hard to do when you have morons working for you..



Hell I would take a Mil a year to get hit a couple of thimes in practice..

But we all know that that would not make the team better by having either of us pushing Orton for his spot..:laugh::laugh:

no kidding. Nobody would take us seriously, on the field or at team meetings. You and I are really a couple of losers when it gets right down to it.

[Slick]

the difference in this case is we back the team bullgator, not individuals. it's football, it's a game, it is not life, at least for most of us.

[BroncoNut]

unless your a raider fan..

degenerates that they are..

actually feel sorry for folks that are born in OAK becasue thet falt do not know anybetter..

I guess ignorance is bliss.

yep, there are a few fans with thug personalities.

[BroncoNut]

no kidding. Nobody would take us seriously, on the field or at team meetings. You and I are really a couple of losers when it gets right down to it.

Actually, Prater might be kinda cool to us. Tebow would be too I think. I think Dumverville would pick on me ALOT

[LordTrychon]

Entertainment at the cost of morality is folly. That's why I say we got our priorities ****** up.

Whats wrong with both? whats wrong with exciting play AND a morally rock solid person all in one?

Nothing's wrong with having both. I think that's great. Would I prefer Tim Tebow turn out to be a HOF QB and my team's leader for the next decade over someone like Big Ben? Hell yeah! That would be awesome.

If he doesn't complete a pass, then he'll be out of the league shortly, and he can move on to being a great person for someone else.

Tim doesn't need to become a good person. He already is. What are you rooting for? You rooting for him to become a better person?

I'm rooting for him to become a good QB who can lead my team and help them improve, because that improves the Broncos, and it's what TIM wants. I'm on his side.

Rooting for him to become a better person does nothing.

[TXBRONC]

yes. But lets understand that making that statement, was NOT an obligation on his part. He would LIKE to work with the QBs, but that doesn't mean its going to happen, and it doesn't mean its going to happen on a regular basis. FOr people to EXPECT this of John, imo, is just ridiculous.

That's why I pointed out it's Elway's choice. At the same time he's not under any obligation to help Tebow out it doesn't mean he's not using his time appropriately.

[Lonestar]

Elway mentioned that he would help out the QBs on the team and work with them when he could. Glad he followed through with it. Who would be better to help a young QB then one of the best of all time. Its funny Quinn and Tebow both called Elway as soon as they got to Denver to talk to him. Orton never did.

Rather JohnE worked with Tebow than geting down in the trenches and duking it out with franklin..

His expertise helps at QB not so much else where.

[NightTerror218]

Rather JohnE worked with Tebow than geting down in the trenches and duking it out with franklin..

His expertise helps at QB not so much else where.

Actually it does help elsewhere....he can tell you who he would not like up against. He mentioned before the draft he can evaluate defensive players based on who he would not like to go against.....guess he is just use to getting hit by those guys.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

We do not have a "perfect" QB on the team. So yeah, I would take Tebow anyday verses what is starting for the team.

Could we wait until regular season starts before forming an opinion?

[Npba900]

In this case - it was more - "John structuring his NIGHT" As channel 9 is now the official Broncos' station, two weeks ago - on Mondays at 6:00 MST, they started the John Elway Show, which is live. It was on last night. Keep in mind that practice went until 5:00 - SO, John either did this right after practice, or after the John Elway show, which ended at 6:30. ALSO, with Thomas and Warren getting injured yesterday, I would assume that John was involved in trying to figure out "what ifs", in regards to the severity of the injuries. So, it definitely appears that John's plate is FULL - rather than him sitting in his office all day doing NOTHING. I have not attended practice, but for those that have, they can confirm if John is watching practice. If he is, I can't see how he can disrupt practice to pull Tebow aside to work with him, when Tebow needs work practicing with the team.

Tebow is beginning to acquire a lot of hands on maintenance. In fact way too much maintenace for a first round pick IMHO.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Tebow is beginning to acquire a lot of hands on maintenance. In fact way too much maintenace for a first round pick IMHO.

I don't mind this, taking into consideration the stupid lockout messed things up. If it were not for the lockout, Tebow would have been able to be at Dove Valley daily to work with the coaches, etc. then.

[Lonestar]

Tebow is beginning to acquire a lot of hands on maintenance. In fact way too much maintenace for a first round pick IMHO.

Guess you were not around when JohnE was a newbie for that matter many years into his career.. and HE WAS THE numero UNO..

[SOCALORADO.]

Guess you were not around when JohnE was a newbie for that matter many years into his career.. and HE WAS THE numero UNO..

Ah, i was around and Elway NEVER needed this kind of maintenance. LOL!
TT is just not a pro style QB, which is why he needs so much work and tutoring from others.
Meanwhile Ryan Mallet simply walks out onto any field and runs any kind of offensive scheme with ease, and accuracy.

[LTC Pain]

Elway working after practice with TT can be nothing but positive for TT and the Broncos. But, as always, there will be a few who somehow manage to unzip there pants and urinate on it. Must be karma :(

[Slick]

Meanwhile Ryan Mallet simply walks out onto any field and runs any kind of offensive scheme with ease, and accuracy.

Sure, but Mallet isn't a Bronco. Why even bring this up?

[TXBRONC]

Sure, but Mallet isn't a Bronco. Why even bring this up?

No offence to you Socal but as Slick said Mallet isn't our quarterback.

[DenBronx]

Elway shouldnt even have to go out there.

He doesn't have to do anything but I think he wants to.

If John has the time then why not? We see it all the time guys like Rod Smith or Deon Sanders helping young guys get better at the game.


Maybe John has an itch to coach a bit too. Can't deny that he still loves the game.

[Lonestar]

Ah, i was around and Elway NEVER needed this kind of maintenance. LOL!
TT is just not a pro style QB, which is why he needs so much work and tutoring from others.
Meanwhile Ryan Mallet simply walks out onto any field and runs any kind of offensive scheme with ease, and accuracy.

yeah that was one of the reason that mikey was hired (actually promoted) to ride shot gun on him..

John would not listen to his head coach..

one of the reasons that maddox was drafted..

While I'm happy for mallet he is not my player, Tebow is..

I'd guess you be a great fan on someother message board where mallet resides..

I'll take a kid with this knid of desire any day over one that is breed in a "pro style" enviroment.

make the success he has just that much nicer..

I suspect years from now when Tebow is creating plays mallet will just be another ho hum QB.. Another Orton..

[NightTerror218]

yeah that was one of the reason that mikey was hired (actually promoted) to ride shot gun on him..

John would not listen to his head coach..

one of the reasons that maddox was drafted..

While I'm happy for mallet he is not my player, Tebow is..

I'd guess you be a great fan on someother message board where mallet resides..

I'll take a kid with this knid of desire any day over one that is breed in a "pro style" enviroment.

make the success he has just that much nicer..

I suspect years from now when Tebow is creating plays mallet will just be another ho hum QB.. Another Orton..


Well we do play the Pats later this season :eek:

[Lonestar]

Elway working after practice with TT can be nothing but positive for TT and the Broncos. But, as always, there will be a few who somehow manage to unzip there pants and urinate on it. Must be karma :(

Like a TEacher staying after school on their own time to bring a slow learner up to speed.. that is a BAAAAAAAD thing because she is not grading the daily assignements first..

[Denver Native (Carol)]

yeah that was one of the reason that mikey was hired (actually promoted) to ride shot gun on him..

John would not listen to his head coach..

one of the reasons that maddox was drafted..

While I'm happy for mallet he is not my player, Tebow is..

I'd guess you be a great fan on someother message board where mallet resides..

I'll take a kid with this knid of desire any day over one that is breed in a "pro style" enviroment.

make the success he has just that much nicer..

I suspect years from now when Tebow is creating plays mallet will just be another ho hum QB.. Another Orton..

No - Reeves wanted to replace John, because he felt John & Shanahan were going behind Reeves' back.

[Cugel]

Seems to me that Elway is interested in Helping Tim be the best he can be...
because once Orton goes into the tank.. Tebow will get his shot.

It makes sense that John wants to prepare Tebow as best he can...
so that they can make the assesment they need to make...
and then we will not be in this same QB quandry next season...

Orton will be gone after riding the pine for the second half of the season...
Tebow will have some experience on
which to base an assesment of his talent...
and in 2012 we will be moving forward
in the direction best for the team.

Either way... I wont be surprised if we draft a new QB...
to compete with Tim..
to learn under him..
to back him up if he turns out good...
to replace him if he flops.

I think this is all pretty accurate.

#1 -- Tebow isn't remotely ready. Elway wants to see just how fast he can develop -- if he can really do it at all.

Remember that Orton has been practicing his 3 step and 5 step drop mechanics for 10 years now - 4 yrs in college and 6 in the NFL. Normally, that's how a guy gets DRAFTED in the NFL -- they run a pro-style offense in college and get the mechanics down there.

You don't get to the NFL and THEN start working on learning how to throw effectively and consistently.

But, that means that if Tebow is forced to start this season Fox will have to play him in the spread formation that he's most effective in, and NOT try and force Tebow to operate from under center which he can't do very well.

That means that even if Tebow wins a few games, EFX won't revise their opinion of him.

If Tebow is effective from the spread formation does that mean Fox will want him as the starter? HELL NO!

Fox has HIS style of offense that he wants to run. He's been doing it for 10 seasons now as head coach. He's not going to change what he thinks is effective and run a completely different style of offense just because that better suits Tim Tebow!

But, come January Tebow won't be much better at his basic mechanics than he is now. Elway can't spend every day tutoring him like a QB coach, he has a team to run.

And that in turn means the Broncos will have to draft a QB with their 1st round pick in 2012. Tebow may or may not be named the starter for 2012. Probably not.

But that means the Broncos will be giving a $20 million contract to some rookie. That makes it hard for them to name Tebow the starter and trade their promising rookie.

Hence the odds that Tebow ever gets to be the franchise QB in Denver aren't that great. He's still in the running and the Broncos aren't going to give up on him during his rookie contract, but it's not the way to bet.

[Lonestar]

Well we do play the Pats later this season :eek:

if that is who he is playing for unless we knock Brady out he will be setting for a few years also..

so wheres the beef:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Might also be the reason he is knocking it out of the park he is on an established WINNING team..

[Lonestar]

No - Reeves wanted to replace John, because he felt John & Shanahan were going behind Reeves' back.
they were..

[Lonestar]

I think this is all pretty accurate.

#1 -- Tebow isn't remotely ready. Elway wants to see just how fast he can develop -- if he can really do it at all.

Remember that Orton has been practicing his 3 step and 5 step drop mechanics for 10 years now - 4 yrs in college and 6 in the NFL. Normally, that's how a guy gets DRAFTED in the NFL -- they run a pro-style offense in college and get the mechanics down there.

You don't get to the NFL and THEN start working on learning how to throw effectively and consistently.

But, that means that if Tebow is forced to start this season Fox will have to play him in the spread formation that he's most effective in, and NOT try and force Tebow to operate from under center which he can't do very well.

That means that even if Tebow wins a few games, EFX won't revise their opinion of him.

If Tebow is effective from the spread formation does that mean Fox will want him as the starter? HELL NO!

Fox has HIS style of offense that he wants to run. He's been doing it for 10 seasons now as head coach. He's not going to change what he thinks is effective and run a completely different style of offense just because that better suits Tim Tebow!

But, come January Tebow won't be much better at his basic mechanics than he is now. Elway can't spend every day tutoring him like a QB coach, he has a team to run.

And that in turn means the Broncos will have to draft a QB with their 1st round pick in 2012. Tebow may or may not be named the starter for 2012. Probably not.

But that means the Broncos will be giving a $20 million contract to some rookie. That makes it hard for them to name Tebow the starter and trade their promising rookie.

Hence the odds that Tebow ever gets to be the franchise QB in Denver aren't that great. He's still in the running and the Broncos aren't going to give up on him during his rookie contract, but it's not the way to bet.

not this


Elway working after practice with TT can be nothing but positive for TT and the Broncos. But, as always, there will be a few who somehow manage to unzip there pants and urinate on it. Must be karma :(

THIS ..

[NightTerror218]

if that is who he is playing for unless we knock Brady out he will be setting for a few years also..

so wheres the beef:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Might also be the reason he is knocking it out of the park he is on an established WINNING team..

Exactly...look how Cassel did with the team after Brady got hurt. Not to mention Brady has a horrible record against the Broncos.

[Cugel]

No - Reeves wanted to replace John, because he felt John & Shanahan were going behind Reeves' back.

They WERE "going behind Reeves' back" if that means trying to install an offense that had a reasonable chance to win a SB instead of being garbage, garbage, garbage, for 3 quarters, and then ask Elway to air it out in the 4th quarter.

Reeves was an idiot who could never get it through his thick head that he had one of the greatest QBs in NFL history, and you don't hand-cuff him.

Tebow isn't remotely comparable to Elway -- not now and not EVER! But, Fox might well be wrong about this.

It might be that the best move for the Broncos would be to name Tebow the starter, install the spread offense and let Tebow run around in the shot-gun.

But, no way in HELL can you ever get Fox to be happy with that and as long as he's the coach the Broncos are not going to do that.

[Slick]

To try to keep this thread on topic....

I'm glad Elway can find a little time to work with Tebow. It tells us a couple of things. John doesn't seem to care that Tim wasn't "his guy". Meaning just because the current regime didn't draft him, doesn't mean he can't work with him. Also that John thinks it's worth it to devote a little time to the kid, even with a busy schedule.

He's the VP of football operations, right? Ellis and Xanders are still in the offices...hopefully doing THEIR jobs. If Elway is finding the time to do this it means it is important to him and that's a good thing for the Broncos, the fans and the Bullgators of the world.

It's not like John came out of college as a pocket passer. He had a hell of an arm but he made plays after the play broke down more times than not. So, he has a frame of reference. Early on he used his legs A LOT. He developed into a solid pocket passer over the years. If John thinks he can work with the kid and avoid having to spend another 1 on a QB, that's better for us in the long run as well.

If it turns out that Tim doesn't work out, or develop what it takes to be a QB1 in this league, as Bronco fans, Tebow fans, whatever, you can't say we didn't give Tebow every opportunity to develop. That says a lot about this current regime.

[Lonestar]

Exactly...look how Cassel did with the team after Brady got hurt. Not to mention Brady has a horrible record against the Broncos.

IMO it is going to be a few years before we have a team capable of Helping the QB so he does not have to carry it everywhere..

to be fair we have had NE number for years even before Brady we outright owne Bledso in those lst few years..

Just like INDY, PIT BAL has our number, that stuff happens..

But then those teams have been built over time via the draft all have one thing in common great GM's..

[NightTerror218]

I think this is all pretty accurate.

#1 -- Tebow isn't remotely ready. Elway wants to see just how fast he can develop -- if he can really do it at all.

Remember that Orton has been practicing his 3 step and 5 step drop mechanics for 10 years now - 4 yrs in college and 6 in the NFL. Normally, that's how a guy gets DRAFTED in the NFL -- they run a pro-style offense in college and get the mechanics down there.

You don't get to the NFL and THEN start working on learning how to throw effectively and consistently.

But, that means that if Tebow is forced to start this season Fox will have to play him in the spread formation that he's most effective in, and NOT try and force Tebow to operate from under center which he can't do very well.

That means that even if Tebow wins a few games, EFX won't revise their opinion of him.

If Tebow is effective from the spread formation does that mean Fox will want him as the starter? HELL NO!

Fox has HIS style of offense that he wants to run. He's been doing it for 10 seasons now as head coach. He's not going to change what he thinks is effective and run a completely different style of offense just because that better suits Tim Tebow!

But, come January Tebow won't be much better at his basic mechanics than he is now. Elway can't spend every day tutoring him like a QB coach, he has a team to run.

And that in turn means the Broncos will have to draft a QB with their 1st round pick in 2012. Tebow may or may not be named the starter for 2012. Probably not.

But that means the Broncos will be giving a $20 million contract to some rookie. That makes it hard for them to name Tebow the starter and trade their promising rookie.

Hence the odds that Tebow ever gets to be the franchise QB in Denver aren't that great. He's still in the running and the Broncos aren't going to give up on him during his rookie contract, but it's not the way to bet.


Your posts make me laugh....no facts all assumptions. Orton breaks leg in game 1 and Tebow starts, Fox is going to change his whole game plan to accommodate Tebow as QB? That would be a HELL NO, Fox will make Tebow play his way not change to spread offense. IF Tebow can not handle it Quinn will start.

So you KNOW Tebow's mechanics wont be better with some real coaching this year? As seen his is already getting the coaching he needs.

You do forget that Orton ran the spread offense in college and then ran it with McD. Orton has had many years to practice his drops in the NFL, Tebow has not. He will work on it and get better, that is a fact.

[Lonestar]

To try to keep this thread on topic....

I'm glad Elway can find a little time to work with Tebow. It tells us a couple of things. John doesn't seem to care that Tim wasn't "his guy". Meaning just because the current regime didn't draft him, doesn't mean he can't work with him. Also that John thinks it's worth it to devote a little time to the kid, even with a busy schedule.

He's the VP of football operations, right? Ellis and Xanders are still in the offices...hopefully doing THEIR jobs. If Elway is finding the time to do this it means it is important to him and that's a good thing for the Broncos, the fans and the Bullgators of the world.

It's not like John came out of college as a pocket passer. He had a hell of an arm but he made plays after the play broke down more times than not. So, he has a frame of reference. Early on he used his legs A LOT. He developed into a solid pocket passer over the years. If John thinks he can work with the kid and avoid having to spend another 1 on a QB, that's better for us in the long run as well.

If it turns out that Tim doesn't work out, or develop what it takes to be a QB1 in this league, as Bronco fans, Tebow fans, whatever, you can't say we didn't give Tebow every opportunity to develop. That says a lot about this current regime.

Thanks for reminding me JohnE made a comment not to long ago.. That he was not a complete QB till he learned to work from the pocket.

He improved his game by not being a rabbit..

Great post Slick..

[SOCALORADO.]

Sure, but Mallet isn't a Bronco. Why even bring this up?

Because the 3rd rounder can run any kind of offense with ease and accuracy while the 1st rounder cannot run any kind of offense with any kind of proficiency whatsoever, and looks lost under center, yet he claims he took thousands and thousands of snaps under center to offset this glaring issue since last season. No impovement, and now the excuse is he didnt have official practice. But Mallet didnt have official practice and he seems just fine, and hes a rookie.
Mallet is a pro-style QB able to play any offense, TT is a wildcat/H-back.

[SOCALORADO.]

No - Reeves wanted to replace John, because he felt John & Shanahan were going behind Reeves' back.

Oh no! Apparently Shanny was brought in to fix Elways glaring issues as a QB!
:D

[Northman]

Why not? How many times do you see retired players helping out the younger kids. Rod Smith did it last year with the recievers, Deion Sanders does it every single year with the labeled "bad boys" of the collegiate level. Who cares that John Elway decided to give the kid a helping hand. John is a good guy, always has been, this just continues to show John's character.

Yes yes, but Rod shouldnt even have to go out there. :lol:

[Northman]

He isn't going to gain experience by acting as a 3rd level coach. Elway has a very important job he could be focusing on.


Wow, Elway taking a little time to help a young QB and people are disgruntled about it? Come on MHC, this is a good thing. To me this act shows that Elway gives a damn about the direction of the team. As someone else pointed out, if Elway trys to help Tebow a bit and Tebow still fails than the team moves on. But there is nothing wrong with Elway hanging out a bit to give Tebow some pointers. Good grief. Its not like he is really doing anything that QB coach wouldnt do anyway but coming from Elway it probably means a hell of a lot more.

[BroncoNut]

Sure, but Mallet isn't a Bronco. Why even bring this up?

I'm assuming that Mallet is a qb that is more suitable for the NFL than tebow. Either that or a stick used for croquet

[Northman]

lol there are actually people complaining that john mother****ing elway is helping out our young quarterback?

what in the heckballs, seriously?


:lol:

Yes, believe it or not. Unreal.

[Northman]

I dont give a shit if Elway works out with him. I was just taken back by the comment that "he waits till now to go work out with him? LOL". Like Elway should have been doing this all along.

Maybe Elway was putting his trust in the coaching personnel that was hired to do that job. If the guys in place arent getting it done or he doesnt see any progress maybe he felt the need to go see for himself what is going on.

[BroncoNut]

this thread makes me want to blow my brains out

[shank]

i wish i KNEW as much as cugel does.

[Lonestar]

Maybe Elway was putting his trust in the coaching personnel that was hired to do that job. If the guys in place arent getting it done or he doesnt see any progress maybe he felt the need to go see for himself what is going on.

and just maybe he wanted to help out thinking it would matter..

This is not brain surgery that some are trying to make of it..

John is a BIG BOY now he is a HOF guy, he is a very sucessful business man almost a self made gazillionare..

why do these folks THNK he does not know how to mangage his time..

It is not like they are paying by the hour out of their own pocket..




Watch this thread go viral and go on forever.. the really stupid ones do..

[Lonestar]

i wish i KNEW as much as cugel does.

Mis read that thought you said..

i wish JOHNE KNEW as much as cugel does

[Slick]

Because the 3rd rounder can run any kind of offense with ease and accuracy while the 1st rounder cannot run any kind of offense with any kind of proficiency whatsoever, and looks lost under center, yet he claims he took thousands and thousands of snaps under center to offset this glaring issue since last season. No impovement, and now the excuse is he didnt have official practice. But Mallet didnt have official practice and he seems just fine, and hes a rookie.
Mallet is a pro-style QB able to play any offense, TT is a wildcat/H-back.



So go talk about him in another thread. This is about John trying to help Tim Tebow.

[BroncoStud]

To try to keep this thread on topic....

I'm glad Elway can find a little time to work with Tebow. It tells us a couple of things. John doesn't seem to care that Tim wasn't "his guy". Meaning just because the current regime didn't draft him, doesn't mean he can't work with him. Also that John thinks it's worth it to devote a little time to the kid, even with a busy schedule.

He's the VP of football operations, right? Ellis and Xanders are still in the offices...hopefully doing THEIR jobs. If Elway is finding the time to do this it means it is important to him and that's a good thing for the Broncos, the fans and the Bullgators of the world.

It's not like John came out of college as a pocket passer. He had a hell of an arm but he made plays after the play broke down more times than not. So, he has a frame of reference. Early on he used his legs A LOT. He developed into a solid pocket passer over the years. If John thinks he can work with the kid and avoid having to spend another 1 on a QB, that's better for us in the long run as well.

If it turns out that Tim doesn't work out, or develop what it takes to be a QB1 in this league, as Bronco fans, Tebow fans, whatever, you can't say we didn't give Tebow every opportunity to develop. That says a lot about this current regime.

Very good post.

[lgenf]

there's only an UP side

[BroncoNut]

i think its great that John is trying to help Tim. That's really what it's all about when it gets right down to it.

[Agent of Orange]

:salute:


I have always tried to remove the we and them from my work places.. But it hard to do when you have morons working for you..


Hell I would take a Mil a year to get hit a couple of thimes in practice..

But we all know that that would not make the team better by having either of us pushing Orton for his spot..:laugh::laugh:

No one cares.

[SOCALORADO.]

So go talk about him in another thread. This is about John trying to help Tim Tebow.

Or its about pro style, rookie QBs not needing help learning to play under center by the time they are in the NFL. I also think its great that Elway is helping TT.

[Nomad]

Maybe Elway was putting his trust in the coaching personnel that was hired to do that job. If the guys in place arent getting it done or he doesnt see any progress maybe he felt the need to go see for himself what is going on.

You're probably right on. At first (because I agreed with Clip's take) I thought why hasn't he done this since the lockout ended, but then you bring up a good point of him giving his coaching personnel the chance.

In a perfect world, JE would mold Tebow into an elite QB and BRONCOS can finally focus on shoring up the dline through the draft.

[Slick]

Or its about pro style, rookie QBs not needing help learning to play under center by the time they are in the NFL. I also think its great that Elway is helping TT.

No, it's not. You said that, no one else did.

It is about OUR QB, who obviously needs help. Even if he took 10,000 snaps from center in his private work outs he had no one from our franchise there to critique, offer pointers, yell at him, whatever.

I'm glad you think it's great that Elway is helping out. There's absolutely no downside to it.

If he's never more than a wildcat QB, h back like you claim, no one can say he didn't get a fair shake, including the Gator fan bois.

Not many young QB's get tutelage from a HOF QB. Tebow better be a sponge.

[SOCALORADO.]

No, it's not. You said that, no one else did.

It is about OUR QB, who obviously needs help. Even if he took 10,000 snaps from center in his private work outs he had no one from our franchise there to critique, offer pointers, yell at him, whatever.

I'm glad you think it's great that Elway is helping out. There's absolutely no downside to it.

If he's never more than a wildcat QB, h back like you claim, no one can say he didn't get a fair shake, including the Gator fan bois.

Not many young QB's get tutelage from a HOF QB. Tebow better be a sponge.

Or maybe Elway is getting him ready for a role similiar to..
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20110815/5c584b_bsmith81511.jpg

[BroncoNut]

No, it's not. You said that, no one else did.

It is about OUR QB, who obviously needs help. Even if he took 10,000 snaps from center in his private work outs he had no one from our franchise there to critique, offer pointers, yell at him, whatever.

I'm glad you think it's great that Elway is helping out. There's absolutely no downside to it.

If he's never more than a wildcat QB, h back like you claim, no one can say he didn't get a fair shake, including the Gator fan bois.

Not many young QB's get tutelage from a HOF QB. Tebow better be a sponge.

You are on fire today slick :salute:

[NightTerror218]

No, it's not. You said that, no one else did.

It is about OUR QB, who obviously needs help. Even if he took 10,000 snaps from center in his private work outs he had no one from our franchise there to critique, offer pointers, yell at him, whatever.

I'm glad you think it's great that Elway is helping out. There's absolutely no downside to it.

If he's never more than a wildcat QB, h back like you claim, no one can say he didn't get a fair shake, including the Gator fan bois.

Not many young QB's get tutelage from a HOF QB. Tebow better be a sponge.


Lots of QBs get mentored by others and some have personaly QB trainers like Brady did. Cam had Warren Moon. Brett Farve has worked with Colt McCoy. A lot of the time the vet QB helps the rookie QB except in our case, Orton treats Tebow as a black sheep. QBs do get a lot of work and help from others. Not many go straight in and do well.

[vandammage13]

Lots of QBs get mentored by others and some have personaly QB trainers like Brady did. Cam had Warren Moon. Brett Farve has worked with Colt McCoy. A lot of the time the vet QB helps the rookie QB except in our case, Orton treats Tebow as a black sheep. QBs do get a lot of work and help from others. Not many go straight in and do well.

Even Elway didn't come in and do well right away...In fact, his game in his early years resembled that of Tebow's in the sense that he looked to make plays with his feet too much (obviously his mechanics were better).

I think Elway could help his young QB out a little more and take some pressure off by silencing the critics and pointing out his own early struggles and that he himself had. For whatever reason, Elway has not done that, and I think he dropped the ball a little bit there from a management perspective by not sticking up for his young QB who has to deal with a disproportionate amount of criticism.

Tebow doesn't really look the part out there in conventional terms, but if you want to really get down to it, he performed better than Elway did his rookie year. I am somewhat puzzled that the bottom line of Tebow putting up points in his limited action is overlooked (or even ignored) because his mechanics are bad.

Orton's mechanics sure look good when he's throwing the ball away on third and goal, though....give me a f'n break...

[Cugel]

You're probably right on. At first (because I agreed with Clip's take) I thought why hasn't he done this since the lockout ended, but then you bring up a good point of him giving his coaching personnel the chance.

In a perfect world, JE would mold Tebow into an elite QB and BRONCOS can finally focus on shoring up the dline through the draft.

That's exactly right. But this isn't an "ideal world."

Tim Tebow may never be able to master skills he's never learned in college or high school.

Remember that out of the hundreds of college and thousands of high-school QBs only a handful of QBs ever get drafted.

And of those only 1 or 2 from any draft class are ever successful starters in the NFL.

Typical year 2005; the QBs taken in the first 3 rounds were:

1 -- Alex Smith
1 -- Aaron Rogers
1 -- Jason Campbell
3 -- Charlie Frye
3 -- Andrew Walter
3 -- Jacob Greene

And only Rogers has been a success. So, if a guy comes into the league and struggles with the pro-style offense his first two years the odds of him ever becoming a success are not all that great.

You can argue that Tebow will be an exception, and maybe he will be. Eventually. But all the odds are against him.

He got to the NFL by running around and making something out of nothing in college; not by his passing skills which is normally how you get there.

There's no proof he can EVER learn to be a great pocket passing QB. And without that he'll never in HELL QB a team to the SB.

John Elway knows that better than almost anybody and he's not going to accept any substitute. If Tebow can't cut it in John's eyes (and he hasn't so far) then he's going to be gone. Regardless of how many fans buy his Tee-shirt.

[NightTerror218]

That's exactly right. But this isn't an "ideal world."

Tim Tebow may never be able to master skills he's never learned in college or high school.

Remember that out of the hundreds of college and thousands of high-school QBs only a handful of QBs ever get drafted.

And of those only 1 or 2 from any draft class are ever successful starters in the NFL.

Typical year 2005; the QBs taken in the first 3 rounds were:

1 -- Alex Smith
1 -- Aaron Rogers
1 -- Jason Campbell
3 -- Charlie Frye
3 -- Andrew Walter
3 -- Jacob Greene

And only Rogers has been a success. So, if a guy comes into the league and struggles with the pro-style offense his first two years the odds of him ever becoming a success are not all that great.

You can argue that Tebow will be an exception, and maybe he will be. Eventually. But all the odds are against him.

He got to the NFL by running around and making something out of nothing in college; not by his passing skills which is normally how you get there.

There's no proof he can EVER learn to be a great pocket passing QB. And without that he'll never in HELL QB a team to the SB.

John Elway knows that better than almost anybody and he's not going to accept any substitute. If Tebow can't cut it in John's eyes (and he hasn't so far) then he's going to be gone. Regardless of how many fans buy his Tee-shirt.

Damn you opinions give me some facts.....John Elways knows what? He stated what? Quotes? Interviews? Why is he wasting his time then working with Tebow? Young/Elway/Rodgers/Roth are all mobile QBs who wont SBs. You get better in pocket with practice, as seen with all of these Qbs.

[Cugel]

Even Elway didn't come in and do well right away...In fact, his game in his early years resembled that of Tebow's in the sense that he looked to make plays with his feet too much (obviously his mechanics were better).

You might as well argue that "Alex Smith or Brian Brohme didn't do too well their first couple of years. . . ." And then they just went right on sucking, so what does that prove? Nothing except that people who make that argument might charitably be called "less than average in intelligence."

Until Tebow shows something that indicates that he'll EVER be a great QB it's beyond idiotic to compare him with Elway!

Entering the draft, Elway was the most highly touted pro-prospect in decades. The next time the NFL saw anything like him was when Peyton Manning came in over ten years later. And the hoopla over Michael Vick or Eli Manning pales in comparison.

Tebow was a consensus 2nd round pick who NFL observers questioned would ever make it.

Even his first year Elway showed flashes of total brilliance. Tebow has not. He's run around and made plays with his feet but to compare him to Elway is just totally insane! Elway could run to his right and throw a 30 yard pass across his body, completely across the field and hit a WR who was wide open because the DB couldn't believe that anybody could make that throw.

Even in his first year he stunned people making plays like that.

So, throw out all the moronic "stats" that prove nothing!

Either you never watched Elway back when he played or your have a very bad memory!

[Ravage!!!]

Damn you opinions give me some facts.....John Elways knows what? He stated what? Quotes? Interviews? Why is he wasting his time then working with Tebow? Young/Elway/Rodgers/Roth are all mobile QBs who wont SBs. You get better in pocket with practice, as seen with all of these Qbs.

He didn't say that mobile QBs couldn't win. He said that if you can't pass from the pocket (which is what Tebow has been showing time and time and time again), he won't be a successful QB in the NFL (or in his statement, take a team to the Super Bowl).

Young/Elway/Rodgers/Roth are ALLLLLLL very good passers from the pocket, FIRST. In addition, they can run. Thats the difference.

Also, opinions don't need facts... thats why they are opinions.

[Ravage!!!]

You might as well argue that "Alex Smith or Brian Brohme didn't do too well their first couple of years. . . ." And then they just went right on sucking, so what does that prove? Nothing except that people who make that argument might charitably be called "less than average in intelligence."

Until Tebow shows something that indicates that he'll EVER be a great QB it's beyond idiotic to compare him with Elway!

Entering the draft, Elway was the most highly touted pro-prospect in decades. The next time the NFL saw anything like him was when Peyton Manning came in over ten years later. And the hoopla over Michael Vick or Eli Manning pales in comparison.

Tebow was a consensus 2nd round pick who NFL observers questioned would ever make it.

Even his first year Elway showed flashes of total brilliance. Tebow has not. He's run around and made plays with his feet but to compare him to Elway is just totally insane! Elway could run to his right and throw a 30 yard pass across his body, completely across the field and hit a WR who was wide open because the DB couldn't believe that anybody could make that throw.

Even in his first year he stunned people making plays like that.

So, throw out all the moronic "stats" that prove nothing!

Either you never watched Elway back when he played or your have a very bad memory!

When Elway came out, he had the rating of the greatest FOOTBALL PLAYER to ever come out of college...a nd he STILL holds the highest rating of ANY player to ever come out of college.... QB or any other position (which ranks the rating of Luck that much greater since its been said to be the best SINCE Elway).

When he first hit the NFL, teams had to bring in Jugs machines to simulate the velocity of the ball whizzing past the LBs, since they didn't have any other way to practice that kind of speed.

To compare ANYTHING of Tebow to Elway, is just showing a lack of knowledge, and proof that they never actually WATCHED the games, but merely peeked at some meaningless numbers on a stat sheet.

[Cugel]

Damn you opinions give me some facts.....John Elways knows what? He stated what? Quotes? Interviews? Why is he wasting his time then working with Tebow? Young/Elway/Rodgers/Roth are all mobile QBs who wont SBs. You get better in pocket with practice, as seen with all of these Qbs.

Blah, blah, blah. :coffee:

John Elway: "Tebow is very raw."

How's that for "facts". He's said that many times.

John Fox after the first pre-season game said that Orton looked "sharp"; Quinn looked "good" and that Tebow "is obviously a work in progress."

Not everybody gets better with practice. Most people can't become accurate passers in the NFL no matter HOW hard they practice.

Why is he "wasting his time?" Because it's not a "waste."

He can't know that Tebow can't learn to become an accurate pocket passing QB until he tries. Who knows? Maybe he can.

He'll certainly get a chance to prove it over the next 3 seasons.

But, the key time-frame is January 2012. Tebow is NOT going to be able to master those skills (assuming he ever can) by next January. It's going to take a full off-season working with coaches.

But, next January if Elway isn't sure about whether Tebow can make it and he doesn't want to keep Orton they have to go out and draft a QB.

And they will. Then Tebow will have to compete for a job with the rookie over the next 2 years. And the Broncos will have to make a decision whether to go with Tebow or the rookie. :coffee:

[Jsteve01]

I'd give socal's left nut to have drafted Aaron Rogers...

[broncobryce]

When Elway came out, he had the rating of the greatest FOOTBALL PLAYER to ever come out of college...a nd he STILL holds the highest rating of ANY player to ever come out of college.... QB or any other position (which ranks the rating of Luck that much greater since its been said to be the best SINCE Elway).

When he first hit the NFL, teams had to bring in Jugs machines to simulate the velocity of the ball whizzing past the LBs, since they didn't have any other way to practice that kind of speed.

To compare ANYTHING of Tebow to Elway, is just showing a lack of knowledge, and proof that they never actually WATCHED the games, but merely peeked at some meaningless numbers on a stat sheet.

both were highly scrutinized high draft picks, both are broncos. Both are exciting players, who make plays out of the pocket. Tebow had a comeback that reminded some of the excitement we had when elway played

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[NightTerror218]

Blah, blah, blah. :coffee:

John Elway: "Tebow is very raw."

How's that for "facts". He's said that many times.

John Fox after the first pre-season game said that Orton looked "sharp"; Quinn looked "good" and that Tebow "is obviously a work in progress."

Not everybody gets better with practice. Most people can't become accurate passers in the NFL no matter HOW hard they practice.

Why is he "wasting his time?" Because it's not a "waste."

He can't know that Tebow can't learn to become an accurate pocket passing QB until he tries. Who knows? Maybe he can.

He'll certainly get a chance to prove it over the next 3 seasons.

But, the key time-frame is January 2012. Tebow is NOT going to be able to master those skills (assuming he ever can) by next January. It's going to take a full off-season working with coaches.

But, next January if Elway isn't sure about whether Tebow can make it and he doesn't want to keep Orton they have to go out and draft a QB.

And they will. Then Tebow will have to compete for a job with the rookie over the next 2 years. And the Broncos will have to make a decision whether to go with Tebow or the rookie. :coffee:


He also said that they might have a future franchise QB on the roster already. Tebow even admits he needs work. Orton looked shart really? He was just feeding the media and sticking to his same response to media. He is not going to give them anything that they can run with. IF Fox said Tebow looked really good, Media would go nuts. If he said Orton played poor, media would go nuts. Very touchy subject with the media. How do you know Tebow will not improve that much over the season? Is there a chance? How can you claim he will NOT? I call that more bullshit.

[Dzone]

Gotta remember that Rich Gannon was drafted by New England and they told him they were converting him to safety. Something about crappy mechanics. He told them no and they traded him to Minnesota. It took Gannon several years, but he became great. Hope if Tebow becomes great its not at Kansas City or something. That would suck.

[NightTerror218]

He didn't say that mobile QBs couldn't win. He said that if you can't pass from the pocket (which is what Tebow has been showing time and time and time again), he won't be a successful QB in the NFL (or in his statement, take a team to the Super Bowl).

Young/Elway/Rodgers/Roth are ALLLLLLL very good passers from the pocket, FIRST. In addition, they can run. Thats the difference.

Also, opinions don't need facts... thats why they are opinions.

None of them started out as great passers in the pocket though. But become very good.

[Ravage!!!]

Gotta remember that Rich Gannon was drafted by New England and they told him they were converting him to safety. Something about crappy mechanics. He told them no and they traded him to Minnesota. It took Gannon several years, but he became great. Hope if Tebow becomes great its not at Kansas City or something. That would suck.

He became decent that had a couple GOOD years. He NEVER became great.

[Ravage!!!]

None of them started out as great passers in the pocket though. But become very good.


Really? So you are saying that Elway, the highest rated player to EVER be rated coming out of college, was notr considered to be a good pocket passer?

Young, Rogers, and Roth were all rated as top QBs coming out of college, and yet you think they were not considered good passing QBs? You think Young and Rodgers were not considered TOP passers when coming out of college? Really? Young set accuracy records in the NFL, yet you think he "developed" that over time?

where are you getting this, because this just isn't true at alllll.

[xzn]

He became decent that had a couple GOOD years. He NEVER became great.

He may not have been great for a long time but for about two years, throwing to Rice and Brown:eek: he gave us and the league fits!

[Jsteve01]

He may not have been great for a long time but for about two years, throwing to Rice and Brown:eek: he gave us and the league fits!

and Steve Buerlein and Jake Delhomme made probowls...

[NightTerror218]

Really? So you are saying that Elway, the highest rated player to EVER be rated coming out of college, was notr considered to be a good pocket passer?

Young, Rogers, and Roth were all rated as top QBs coming out of college, and yet you think they were not considered good passing QBs? You think Young and Rodgers were not considered TOP passers when coming out of college? Really? Young set accuracy records in the NFL, yet you think he "developed" that over time?

where are you getting this, because this just isn't true at alllll.

None of them have prolific rookie years. It took them time to get confidence in the pockets. Young really shined when he went to SF. Do not forget Jamarcus Russell was highly rated coming out of college too.

I AM SAYING THEY BECAME GREAT POCKET PASSERS AFTER HAVING TIME IN THE LEAGUE. None of them cmae out and set records as rookies.

[NightTerror218]

But they were already GOOD passers FROM the pocket. Has NOTHING to do with setting the world on Fire or setting records as a ROOKIE. NO ONE, at the time they came out, were commenting that they were NOT good pocket passers, or that they were inaccurate, or that they had problems reading defenses! Thats the difference. You are trying to look at the silly numbers as if that tells the story, and it doesn't.

They became GREAT QBs over time, but they were already good passers when coming out of college, something Tebow has already been critiqued for NOT being. All the guys you mentioned have GREAT pocket presence, even early in their careers (well, Rodgers was on the bench). But Elway had AMAZING pocket presence and awareness his rookie year. Its just silly to make comparisons in things that aren't even being compared.

"Well, this guy didn't set records his rookie year, why should Tebow be expected to?" Thats what you are saying, and NO ONE is criticizing Tebow for not setting records. What he's being criticized for, is the inability to do things mechanically (and mentally) that other QBs (even as rookies or sophmores) are expected to be able to do.

Well you are def a piece of work, you know that dont you? You are just throwing words into my mouth now. I never mentioned Tebow setting records. So how the hell am I saying that? You even said "thats what you are saying" Obviously you dont know what the hell I am saying since you keep trying to over evaluate every words i say and then adding your own twist to it.

Its funny people criticize him before he plays, praises him after a game then go back to criticize him again then jump on the bandwagon after a game again. It is quite funny, and yet you only look at the criticism and ignore anything that does not support your opinion.

[broncobryce]

He became decent that had a couple GOOD years. He NEVER became great.

He was league MVP, I'd say that's pretty good.

[Lancane]

He was league MVP, I'd say that's pretty good.

Brian Griese in 2000 won the NFL Passing Title and was a shoe into the Pro Bowl that season...so flukes sometimes do happen.

[Ravage!!!]

He was league MVP, I'd say that's pretty good.

yeah, thats what I said. He had a couple good years, But never great.

[Ravage!!!]

I AM SAYING THEY BECAME GREAT POCKET PASSERS AFTER HAVING TIME IN THE LEAGUE. None of them cmae out and set records as rookies.


Well you are def a piece of work, you know that dont you? You are just throwing words into my mouth now. I never mentioned Tebow setting records. So how the hell am I saying that?...

Then why make the first statement? You are comparing the criticisms of Tebow to the play of some of the great, mobile, QBs. Trying to show the similarities in that those QBs weren't "Great" from day one, but LEARNED to be great. You stated, "None of them came out and set records as rookies." That is suggesting that those that criticize Tebow are doing so because Tebow didn't set records or "light the world on fire" his rookie season. If its not, why one earth would you make that statement in a thread that is talking about Tebow and Elway?? :confused:

You get so bent out of shape, when you can't simply communicate your points. If your point is to try and suggest that Elway/Young/Rodgers/and Roth are similar to Tebow purely because they didn't "set records their rookie years".. then that doesn't say much.

There ARE no comparisons between Tebow and the ones you mentioned. Being mobile doesn't mean you are a RUNNING QB. Tebow, right now, is a RUNNING QB. Cunningham...running QB. Vince Young (the closest comparison to Tebow) is a running QB. Can he become a pocket passer, sure. But if thats the case, he has to LEARN how to be a pocket passer while in the NFL. Thats not the way to success in the NFL.

I can't think of a single HoF QB that was considered to be a poor passer coming out of college. There may have been one, but I cant think of him off the top of my head. I can't think of any QBs that were rated as being a poor passer, and turned into a GOOD passer while in the NFL (someone mentioned Gannon, but he was drafted into the NFL with intentions of moving his position purely because he was such a good athlete). I certainly would not want Tebow to have a career like Gannon.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

On sports on 9news tonight on the 5:00 segment, they showed John on the field with Tim - not sure if it was from yesterday, or if John worked with Tim again today - they may have said which, and I did not catch it.

[NightTerror218]

Then why make the first statement? You are comparing the criticisms of Tebow to the play of some of the great, mobile, QBs. Trying to show the similarities in that those QBs weren't "Great" from day one, but LEARNED to be great. You stated, "None of them came out and set records as rookies." That is suggesting that those that criticize Tebow are doing so because Tebow didn't set records or "light the world on fire" his rookie season. If its not, why one earth would you make that statement in a thread that is talking about Tebow and Elway?? :confused:

You get so bent out of shape, when you can't simply communicate your points. If your point is to try and suggest that Elway/Young/Rodgers/and Roth are similar to Tebow purely because they didn't "set records their rookie years".. then that doesn't say much.

There ARE no comparisons between Tebow and the ones you mentioned. Being mobile doesn't mean you are a RUNNING QB. Tebow, right now, is a RUNNING QB. Cunningham...running QB. Vince Young (the closest comparison to Tebow) is a running QB. Can he become a pocket passer, sure. But if thats the case, he has to LEARN how to be a pocket passer while in the NFL. Thats not the way to success in the NFL.

I can't think of a single HoF QB that was considered to be a poor passer coming out of college. There may have been one, but I cant think of him off the top of my head. I can't think of any QBs that were rated as being a poor passer, and turned into a GOOD passer while in the NFL (someone mentioned Gannon, but he was drafted into the NFL with intentions of moving his position purely because he was such a good athlete). I certainly would not want Tebow to have a career like Gannon.

ONly time I get bent out of shape is when you throw words in my mouth and twist them, like normal. This thread is not comparing Elway to Tebow.....it is about Elway working with Tebow. You mentioned Elway was one of the best pocket passers coming out of college, and I said it not like he set records. You also claimed he read defenses amazing? If you are not reading defense what happens? Do you throw 20 interceptions in 1 season?

A future HOF passer who might have been considered poor was on who barely made it out of the draft....Brady.

I never mentioned a running QB because I dont want Tebow to be a running QB. I want him to work on his pocket presence and CONFIDENCE. I personally think he has no confidence in his line or confidence in the pocket, which is why he alwyas wants tuck and run.

I only named the ones because they were all considered "Dual Threat" QBs coming out out college. Elways was known for his mobility to get out of pocket to make plays. Google it if you dont believe me. Any all these guys were not amazing in rookie years, but in 2nd years (minus Rodgers) were much better. Elway was not really good till 3rd season anways.

[NightTerror218]

On sports on 9news tonight on the 5:00 segment, they showed John on the field with Tim - not sure if it was from yesterday, or if John worked with Tim again today - they may have said which, and I did not catch it.

If you know an online link that would be great for us out of Colorado folks.

[Ravage!!!]

ONly time I get bent out of shape is when you throw words in my mouth and twist them, like normal. This thread is not comparing Elway to Tebow.....it is about Elway working with Tebow. You mentioned Elway was one of the best pocket passers coming out of college, and I said it not like he set records. You also claimed he read defenses amazing? If you are not reading defense what happens? Do you throw 20 interceptions in 1 season?
I never said he read defenses "amazing" or amazingly. I said he was the HIGHEST RATED QB TO EVER COME OUT OF COLLEGE, and he didn't get that rating because he wasn't a good pocket passer (which YOU stated he was not when coming out of college). EVERY ONE of the players you mentioned and said were NOT good pocket passers, WERE good pocket passers early in their career. This is where the problem lies. You make statements that are just completely off the wall.


A future HOF passer who might have been considered poor was on who barely made it out of the draft....Brady.
Not sure what this has to do with ANYTHING, but... since you brought him up. In Brady's second season, Belicheck during the preseason said that the BIGGEST thrill they had, was their young QB Tom Brady. This was before the season started, and before Bledsoe went down. Belicheck didn't HESITATE in naming Brady the starter when his "FQB" went down. That is what the Patriots were saying about Brady after his rookie year, what are the Broncos saying about Tebow?


I never mentioned a running QB because I dont want Tebow to be a running QB. I want him to work on his pocket presence and CONFIDENCE. I personally think he has no confidence in his line or confidence in the pocket, which is why he alwyas wants tuck and run.
No, you didn't mention "running QB" but you pulled all the examples of mobile QBs that you have mentioned in all the other threads when discussing the topic.


I only named the ones because they were all considered "Dual Threat" QBs coming out out college. Elways was known for his mobility to get out of pocket to make plays. Google it if you dont believe me. Any all these guys were not amazing in rookie years, but in 2nd years (minus Rodgers) were much better. Elway was not really good till 3rd season anways.
:lol: I don't have to google anything. I am actually old enough to have watched him in college and know what he was known for when coming out of college.

Again, I don't get what your point is about them not being "amazing" after their rookie year ( I mean, Roth only won the Super Bowl, but what the hell). NONE of them were considered poor passers, and NONE of them had to overcome the problems that Tebow has to. So here you are, saying that these really good to GREAT QBs weren't "considered" great until later. DUH. No QB is considered great after their first season... but generally you don't see that them getting criticized for the BASIC problems that Tebow has.

All QBs have to learn the NFL. Thats a given. But NONE of the ones you mentioned had to learn how to take snaps from the center, footwork, and re-learn how to throw on top of learning how to read defenses, understand what the defense is doing, the speed of the game and recognizing blitzes to call out the correct protection. Right now, Tebow isn't strong at ANY of them. He' strong at running.

[NightTerror218]

I never said he read defenses "amazing" or amazingly. I said he was the HIGHEST RATED QB TO EVER COME OUT OF COLLEGE, and he didn't get that rating because he wasn't a good pocket passer (which YOU stated he was not when coming out of college). EVERY ONE of the players you mentioned and said were NOT good pocket passers, WERE good pocket passers early in their career. This is where the problem lies. You make statements that are just completely off the wall.


Not sure what this has to do with ANYTHING, but... since you brought him up. In Brady's second season, Belicheck during the preseason said that the BIGGEST thrill they had, was their young QB Tom Brady. This was before the season started, and before Bledsoe went down. Belicheck didn't HESITATE in naming Brady the starter when his "FQB" went down. That is what the Patriots were saying about Brady after his rookie year, what are the Broncos saying about Tebow?


No, you didn't mention "running QB" but you pulled all the examples of mobile QBs that you have mentioned in all the other threads when discussing the topic.


:lol: I don't have to google anything. I am actually old enough to have watched him in college and know what he was known for when coming out of college.

Again, I don't get what your point is about them not being "amazing" after their rookie year ( I mean, Roth only won the Super Bowl, but what the hell). NONE of them were considered poor passers, and NONE of them had to overcome the problems that Tebow has to. So here you are, saying that these really good to GREAT QBs weren't "considered" great until later. DUH. No QB is considered great after their first season... but generally you don't see that them getting criticized for the BASIC problems that Tebow has.

All QBs have to learn the NFL. Thats a given. But NONE of the ones you mentioned had to learn how to take snaps from the center, footwork, and re-learn how to throw on top of learning how to read defenses, understand what the defense is doing, the speed of the game and recognizing blitzes to call out the correct protection. Right now, Tebow isn't strong at ANY of them. He' strong at running.

wow nice way to attack my post and tread water there around every topic.....good job :rolleyes:

[Ravage!!!]

wow nice way to attack my post and tread water there around every topic.....good job :rolleyes:

:shocked: What? :confused:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If you know an online link that would be great for us out of Colorado folks.

9news does not have it on their website.

[broncobryce]

yeah, thats what I said. He had a couple good years, But never great.

I'd say League MVP is a great year. If not you've got impossible standards.

[Ravage!!!]

I'd say League MVP is a great year. If not you've got impossible standards.

Great year, or great player? Completely different.

[BroncoStud]

Here is an apparent quote from Elway to Rick Reilly recently...


Reilly follows with some comments from John Elway about how the lockout hurt Tebow's ability to come in and compete with Kyle Orton on the same level of preparation. Elway goes on to say:


"But he's an amazing football player. I'd never give up on Tim Tebow."

http://denver.sbnation.com/2011/8/9/2354027/tim-tebow-john-elway-denver-broncos

From the bosses mouth to those who think he has written Tebow off.

[bcbronc]

they showed John on the field with Tim

John Elway is the luckiest man in the world! This must have been quite an honour for JE.

[claymore]

Quite honestly, if Elway working with Tebow can have an affect on having a decent, good, or great QB, then there arent a lot of things Elway could be doing that are more worthwhile.

Well he needs to be working with Orton then. Tebow running the scout team does nothing for us.

[vandammage13]

You might as well argue that "Alex Smith or Brian Brohme didn't do too well their first couple of years. . . ." And then they just went right on sucking, so what does that prove? Nothing except that people who make that argument might charitably be called "less than average in intelligence."

Until Tebow shows something that indicates that he'll EVER be a great QB it's beyond idiotic to compare him with Elway!

Entering the draft, Elway was the most highly touted pro-prospect in decades. The next time the NFL saw anything like him was when Peyton Manning came in over ten years later. And the hoopla over Michael Vick or Eli Manning pales in comparison.

Tebow was a consensus 2nd round pick who NFL observers questioned would ever make it.

Even his first year Elway showed flashes of total brilliance. Tebow has not. He's run around and made plays with his feet but to compare him to Elway is just totally insane! Elway could run to his right and throw a 30 yard pass across his body, completely across the field and hit a WR who was wide open because the DB couldn't believe that anybody could make that throw.

Even in his first year he stunned people making plays like that.

So, throw out all the moronic "stats" that prove nothing!

Either you never watched Elway back when he played or your have a very bad memory!

So you want to say that I might as well use Alex Smith or Brian Brohm as comparisons because they struggled their first couple of years, yet you go on to make a statement saying Elway was the highest touted prospect coming out in decades, which could also easily be replaced with Leaf/Couch/JaFartus....Elway and Manning were about the only ones who lived up to the hype, and neither of them won much their rookie seasons (IIRC, Elway lost every start he had his rookie year, and the Broncos were actually undefeated that year in games which Elway did not play).

So Tebow was a "consensus 2nd round pick"....where guys are rated coming out of college doesn't mean a thing, otherwise Brady, Montana, and Marino all would have been picked higher than they were, While Couch, Leaf, and JaFartus wouldn't have been drafted at all.

Sure, Elway "showed flashes of brilliance" his rookie year, but by in large, he was pretty bad. He looked very lost out there as a rookie and even lined up under guard to take a snap one time.

Anyway, spare me the nonsense that I was trying to compare Tebow to Elway...In no way shape or form do I believe that Tebow will ever be the passer that Elway was. The only comparison I made is that both had their own struggles as young QBs.

By the way, I saw probably 99% of Elway's career games, to include about 30 in person and all of his rookie year. I remember what I saw, and though I immediately could see that he had what it took to be great, it took him a couple years to put it all together...I really feel like Tebow should be afforded the same time before we pass judgement.

[claymore]

The thing everyone keeps overlooking is that Tebow doesnt know how to play from under the center. He is like 4 years behind the learning curve.

Bad footwork + poor throwing motion + young QB = guarenteed sack, run or interception.

He isnt ready, he wont be for a long, long time. He isnt going to magically be able to play from under center durring a game, if he cant do it in practice.

JMO

[Northman]

So you want to say that I might as well use Alex Smith or Brian Brohm as comparisons because they struggled their first couple of years, yet you go on to make a statement saying Elway was the highest touted prospect coming out in decades, which could also easily be replaced with Leaf/Couch/JaFartus....Elway and Manning were about the only ones who lived up to the hype, and neither of them won much their rookie seasons (IIRC, Elway lost every start he had his rookie year, and the Broncos were actually undefeated that year in games which Elway did not play).

So Tebow was a "consensus 2nd round pick"....where guys are rated coming out of college doesn't mean a thing, otherwise Brady, Montana, and Marino all would have been picked higher than they were, While Couch, Leaf, and JaFartus wouldn't have been drafted at all.

Sure, Elway "showed flashes of brilliance" his rookie year, but by in large, he was pretty bad. He looked very lost out there as a rookie and even lined up under guard to take a snap one time.

Anyway, spare me the nonsense that I was trying to compare Tebow to Elway...In no way shape or form do I believe that Tebow will ever be the passer that Elway was. The only comparison I made is that both had their own struggles as young QBs.

By the way, I saw probably 99% of Elway's career games, to include about 30 in person and all of his rookie year. I remember what I saw, and though I immediately could see that he had what it took to be great, it took him a couple years to put it all together...I really feel like Tebow should be afforded the same time before we pass judgement.


I guess Cug gave up on Elway after his first 3 games too. Bet he was eating a lot of crow a couple of years later. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Northman]

The thing everyone keeps overlooking is that Tebow doesnt know how to play from under the center. He is like 4 years behind the learning curve.

Bad footwork + poor throwing motion + young QB = guarenteed sack, run or interception.

He isnt ready, he wont be for a long, long time. He isnt going to magically be able to play from under center durring a game, if he cant do it in practice.

JMO

No one is overlooking he needs work. But i HIGHLY doubt its going to take years and years. Having some consistency at the coaching positions will go a long way in his development.

[vandammage13]

The thing everyone keeps overlooking is that Tebow doesnt know how to play from under the center. He is like 4 years behind the learning curve.

Bad footwork + poor throwing motion + young QB = guarenteed sack, run or interception.

He isnt ready, he wont be for a long, long time. He isnt going to magically be able to play from under center durring a game, if he cant do it in practice.

JMO

First off, I don't think anyone overlooked his inexperience playing under center. That was one of the major things the pundits harped on leading up to the draft.

His mechanics may not be great, but as a rookie, he only had 1 pick per 27.3 attempts (which isn't bad at all for a rookie) and was sacked less per drop back than was Orton, who has those flawless mechanics you are speaking of.

While they are important, I think this whole mechanics thing is way overrated. There is no cookie cutter formula for success for a QB.

[SOCALORADO.]

No one is overlooking he needs work. But i HIGHLY doubt its going to take years and years. Having some consistency at the coaching positions will go a long way in his development.

North, the guy just has too many flaws in his game, and its obvious to anyone watching him that he has not developed in any way since college.
He just has too many glaring issues to be a true pro-style NFL QB.
Any of the top 5 or even 6 QBs coming out next year would immediately come into camp outplay orton (how hard is that!?!?) and be the no. 1.
Luck
Barkley
Lindley
Landry
Cousins
Foles

TT will be a H-back/Wildcat player.

[vandammage13]

North, the guy just has too many flaws in his game, and its obvious to anyone watching him that he has not developed in any way since college.
He just has too many glaring issues to be a true pro-style NFL QB.
Any of the top 5 or even 6 QBs coming out next year would immediately come into camp outplay orton (how hard is that!?!?) and be the no. 1.
Luck
Barkley
Lindley
Landry
Cousins
Foles

TT will be a H-back/Wildcat player.

Maybe Luck...none of the others on that list would immediately take Orton's job.

[Northman]

North, the guy just has too many flaws in his game, and its obvious to anyone watching him that he has not developed in any way since college.

And unlike MANY first round QB's the guy hasnt had consistency on his own football team from the head coaching all the way down. Hard to hold "development" against a kid no matter what position when your facing added adversity.


He just has too many glaring issues to be a true pro-style NFL QB.

Not according to the stats i compared. You guys can stomp your feet and cry all you want about mechanics. As far as his play on gameday he is right up there and better than some of the best QB's to ever play. Does this mean he will be a HOF'r or even improve? No. But you dont just call it a day after 3 games and it has never been done before with a 1st round QB.


Any of the top 5 or even 6 QBs coming out next year would immediately come into camp outplay orton (how hard is that!?!?) and be the no. 1.
Luck
Barkley
Lindley
Landry
Cousins
Foles

TT will be a H-back/Wildcat player.

I'll bet you over half of those players wont make it in the NFL. ;)

[claymore]

First off, I don't think anyone overlooked his inexperience playing under center. That was one of the major things the pundits harped on leading up to the draft.

His mechanics may not be great, but as a rookie, he only had 1 pick per 27.3 attempts (which isn't bad at all for a rookie) and was sacked less per drop back than was Orton, who has those flawless mechanics you are speaking of.

While they are important, I think this whole mechanics thing is way overrated. There is no cookie cutter formula for success for a QB.

If all of you all know this, then why do you want him to start? He is worse than Orton, and Ya'll hate Orton.

[vandammage13]

If all of you all know this, then why do you want him to start? He is worse than Orton, and Ya'll hate Orton.

Because I believe that his ceiling is higher than Orton's. He can only reach that ceiling given experience.

I am willing to take one step back to go two steps forward (Although I don't really think it would be taking a step back to replace Orton.) I believe that Tebow showed in his limited action last year that the game is not too big or fast for him and he can get it done.

[claymore]

No one is overlooking he needs work. But i HIGHLY doubt its going to take years and years. Having some consistency at the coaching positions will go a long way in his development.

Spread offense screwed him. He has to completley relearn the position. That will take years and years.

[vandammage13]

Spread offense screwed him. He has to completley relearn the position. That will take years and years.

That is your opinion, not a fact.

My thing is this...If he's so far behind and needs so much work yet he's still able to put up 27 points a game, then imagine what he can do when he gets a couple years of experience.

[BroncoNut]

First off, I don't think anyone overlooked his inexperience playing under center. That was one of the major things the pundits harped on leading up to the draft.

His mechanics may not be great, but as a rookie, he only had 1 pick per 27.3 attempts (which isn't bad at all for a rookie) and was sacked less per drop back than was Orton, who has those flawless mechanics you are speaking of.

While they are important, I think this whole mechanics thing is way overrated. There is no cookie cutter formula for success for a QB.

well stated. I was searching to post something like that. and at the other side of the spectrum, it seems there's been so many of those cookie cutter draftee qbs that just seem to flop for whatever reason. Makes me kinda leary of Luck and most first round picks at qb to tell you the truth. Looking back, was Cutler 1st round worthy? I think so.

[claymore]

Because I believe that his ceiling is higher than Orton's. He can only reach that ceiling given experience.

I am willing to take one step back to go two steps forward (Although I don't really think it would be taking a step back to replace Orton.)
Thats an unfair approach to the team. Fox could never sell that.

Tebows floor seems to be alot lower than Ortons too.

[vandammage13]

Thats an unfair approach to the team. Fox could never sell that.

Tebows floor seems to be alot lower than Ortons too.

What is unfair is the fans having to suffer through another year with a mediocre QB with no hope or long term plan for the future...:coffee:

[BroncoNut]

Vandammage13, I like you and want to be your friend. I will be sending out a friendship request soon.

Sorry Clay :shrugs:

[vandammage13]

Vandammage13, I like you and want to be your friend. I will be sending out a friendship request soon.

Sorry Clay :shrugs:

haha looking forward to it..

[claymore]

That is your opinion, not a fact.

My thing is this...If he's so far behind and needs so much work yet he's still able to put up 27 points a game, then imagine what he can do when he gets a couple years of experience.

Im sure some of that would translate to practice if it wasnt a fluke.

[claymore]

What is unfair is the fans having to suffer through another year with a mediocre QB with no hope or long term plan for the future...:coffee:

Well, we dont have anyone on the roster that can change that.

[vandammage13]

Im sure some of that would translate to practice if it wasnt a fluke.

Possibly....However, I would be more willing to find out for sure than to watch another season with Orton.

If he sucks, then move on...We already know Orton ain't good enough to take us anywhere.

[BroncoNut]

Im sure some of that would translate to practice if it wasnt a fluke.

you're the one saying it was a fluke. And that is just your opinion. it doesn't mean it's the truth

[BroncoNut]

Possibly....However, I would be more willing to find out for sure than to watch another season with Orton.

If he sucks, then move on...We already know Orton ain't good enough to take us anywhere.

totally. If he sucks, I think we should develop Brady Quinn. I don't like the idea of signing Andrew Luck

[claymore]

you're the one saying it was a fluke. And that is just your opinion. it doesn't mean it's the truth
Youre such an ass!

[claymore]

Possibly....However, I would be more willing to find out for sure than to watch another season with Orton.

If he sucks, then move on...We already know Orton ain't good enough to take us anywhere.

Exactly. And Tebow is worse than him. Serilously, do you think EFX would let Orton start over Tebow if the competition was even close?

Look at Tebows QB rating over his first 3 games. He got worse, way worse. You give any DC 6 full games of film on Tebow and we will get embarresed.

[Nomad]

totally. If he sucks, I think we should develop Brady Quinn. I don't like the idea of signing Andrew Luck

Are you going to watch Andrew Luck light up San Jose St for 50+ on Sept 3?!?

[BroncoNut]

Are you going to watch Andrew Luck light up San Jose St for 50+ on Sept 3?!?

I'm going to be paying attention to this young man. Certainly

[vandammage13]

Exactly. And Tebow is worse than him. Serilously, do you think EFX would let Orton start over Tebow if the competition was even close?

Look at Tebows QB rating over his first 3 games. He got worse, way worse. You give any DC 6 full games of film on Tebow and we will get embarresed.

Skeletor..these are just your opinions...Tebow hasn't been in the league long enough to pass judgement one way or the other.

I can see that you are not sold on him, but just because you don't think he can do it doesn't make it so.

You might very well be right, but I just want to see it on the field over the course of a year before we make a decision on him.

[BroncoNut]

Skeletor..these are just your opinions...Tebow hasn't been in the league long enough to pass judgement one way or the other.

I can see that you are not sold on him, but just because you don't think he can do it doesn't make it so.

You might very well be right, but I just want to see it on the field over the course of a year before we make a decision on him.

kinda hard to take someone who plays with Mattel toys seriously isn't it.
Hey Clay, there really is a castle greyskull, I visitied it once. But you have to get special permission

[claymore]

Skeletor..these are just your opinions...Tebow hasn't been in the league long enough to pass judgement one way or the other.

I can see that you are not sold on him, but just because you don't think he can do it doesn't make it so.

You might very well be right, but I just want to see it on the field over the course of a year before we make a decision on him.

I am only echoing the words of the organization. The one that determines if he starts, or is apart of our future.

I want my franchise QB to be able to beat Orton in practice. I mean, thats a pretty low measuring stick dude.

[vandammage13]

I am only echoing the words of the organization. The one that determines if he starts, or is apart of our future.

I want my franchise QB to be able to beat Orton in practice. I mean, thats a pretty low measuring stick dude.

Are you echoing their words or putting words in their mouth??

[claymore]

kinda hard to take someone who plays with Mattel toys seriously isn't it.
Hey Clay, there really is a castle greyskull, I visitied it once. But you have to get special permission

Take your meds Nut. :D

[Nomad]

Take your meds Nut. :D

You and Nut seem like BFF's!

[BroncoNut]

You and Nut seem like BFF's!

we used to be

[Nomad]

we used to be

Where did it go wrong?!? Were there instigators who drew you two apart?

[BroncoNut]

Where did it go wrong?!? Were there instigators who drew you two apart?

well, .... I dont' think people were trying to draw us apart, but I'm sure some are happy that we are not a team. We'd be lethal. We are both pretty retarded with little care for anything outside of our feeble minds. i think alot of it had to do with Clay changing his lifestyle for the better so I don't really want to bring that up. I like the new Clay, but the old Clay would troll more.

[underrated29]

I am only echoing the words of the organization. The one that determines if he starts, or is apart of our future.

I want my franchise QB to be able to beat Orton in practice. I mean, thats a pretty low measuring stick dude.



You of all people should know thats where orton plays his best, in practice. He is a remarkably good QB when he does not have to worry about getting hit.

[Nomad]

well, .... I dont' think people were trying to draw us apart, but I'm sure some are happy that we are not a team. We'd be lethal. We are both pretty retarded with little care for anything outside of our feeble minds. i think alot of it had to do with Clay changing his lifestyle for the better so I don't really want to bring that up. I like the new Clay, but the old Clay would troll more.

You and Clay are good guys. Your friendship bridge is being rebuilt as I can see!

[Ravage!!!]

You of all people should know thats where orton plays his best, in practice. He is a remarkably good QB when he does not have to worry about getting hit.

I wish Tebow could show that he's a good QB when he doesn't have to worry about getting hit. I mean, I would think ANY QB would be able to look good when you dont have to worry about getting hit. Why not Tebow? :confused:

[SOCALORADO.]

Maybe Luck...none of the others on that list would immediately take Orton's job.

All of them would take the starting role from Orton within a week of practice.
Its Orton, dude. Hes a career backup.

[vandammage13]

All of them would take the starting role from Orton within a week of practice.
Its Orton, dude. Hes a career backup.

The bottom half of that list won't even amount to career backups is what I'm saying.

[BroncoNut]

You and Clay are good guys. Your friendship bridge is being rebuilt as I can see!

I think Clay and I will always hold each other dear. Our relationship started with a game of gay chicken. That mofo is either damn good or willing to try anything. My balloon knot was tighter than a snare drum before it was over. How can you not respect that?

[SOCALORADO.]

And unlike MANY first round QB's the guy hasnt had consistency on his own football team from the head coaching all the way down. Hard to hold "development" against a kid no matter what position when your facing added adversity.



Not according to the stats i compared. You guys can stomp your feet and cry all you want about mechanics. As far as his play on gameday he is right up there and better than some of the best QB's to ever play. Does this mean he will be a HOF'r or even improve? No. But you dont just call it a day after 3 games and it has never been done before with a 1st round QB.



I'll bet you over half of those players wont make it in the NFL. ;)

What stats?!?! From 3 meaningless games last year with a interim HC and preseason games!?!?
The guy is TERRIBLE! He takes the snap, looks for his 1st read, if its not wide freakin open, he turns the play into a "wildcat" play, and starts runnin around like a chicken with his head cut off. The guy has NO CLUE how to operate a pro-style offense. Which is why hes fighting with Quinn for backup. They more than likely wont even name a back up this year. Its irrelevant.
TT isnt making it in the NFL as a QB. Clearly.
Not one of those QBs i named would be considered a work in progress by Fox.

[SOCALORADO.]

The bottom half of that list won't even amount to career backups is what I'm saying.

Your on! And your crazy! This tebow love fest is getting more and more embarassing for you guys. If fun and weird to watch, but embarassing none the less.

[Jsteve01]

Your on! And your crazy! This tebow love fest is getting more and more embarassing for you guys. If fun and weird to watch, but embarassing none the less.

it's like magical right?

anyway...i didn't get to continue my argument with you yesterday...what were we talking about?

Oh yeah Paea's phantom sack assist

[Jsteve01]

Where did it go wrong?!? Were there instigators who drew you two apart?

it went wrong when clay cleaned his act up and nut continued to live is self inflicted misery....he's a glutton for something

did I mention he used to have a fridge in the back yard?

[SOCALORADO.]

it's like magical right?

anyway...i didn't get to continue my argument with you yesterday...what were we talking about?

Oh yeah Paea's phantom sack assist

Chicago Tribune is Obama's rag. They never lie or embelish anything, EVER!

[JaxBroncoGirl]

You and Clay are good guys. Your friendship bridge is being rebuilt as I can see!

Nut, you almost had me going there for a while. LOL

[SOCALORADO.]

it's like magical right?

anyway...i didn't get to continue my argument with you yesterday...what were we talking about?

Oh yeah Paea's phantom sack assist

Yes! Magical. A world of unicorns and tebows that shoot glitter out of their asses and throw 40 yard frozen ropes....accurately of course.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vEP2b2ea4yI/Th0WipNztuI/AAAAAAAABcM/PvN6uvpa4B0/s1600/unicorns-rainbow.jpg

[underrated29]

I wish Tebow could show that he's a good QB when he doesn't have to worry about getting hit. I mean, I would think ANY QB would be able to look good when you dont have to worry about getting hit. Why not Tebow? :confused:

???

Because thats not his game i guess. He is not, unlike orton, the ultimate practice-pocket passing Qb....However, as we all know, when the game is on, he does things the defense just can not plan for and he successfully moves the chains that way.

That would be my best way to answer that question i suppose.

[claymore]

You of all people should know thats where orton plays his best, in practice. He is a remarkably good QB when he does not have to worry about getting hit.

Im not here to defend Orton. I think he sucks. But I think He is worlds better than Tebow.

[claymore]

???

Because thats not his game i guess. He is not, unlike orton, the ultimate practice-pocket passing Qb....However, as we all know, when the game is on, he does things the defense just can not plan for and he successfully moves the chains that way.

That would be my best way to answer that question i suppose.

That might work for a couple of games. DC's will be licking their chops to get after Tebow once they have game film on him.

[Npba900]

And unlike MANY first round QB's the guy hasnt had consistency on his own football team from the head coaching all the way down. Hard to hold "development" against a kid no matter what position when your facing added adversity.

Not according to the stats i compared. You guys can stomp your feet and cry all you want about mechanics. As far as his play on gameday he is right up there and better than some of the best QB's to ever play. Does this mean he will be a HOF'r or even improve? No. But you dont just call it a day after 3 games and it has never been done before with a 1st round QB.

I'll bet you over half of those players wont make it in the NFL. ;)

North, here are the short and long term issues. Tebow can take a shotgun snap and make a decision and then run or pass or hand the ball to someone else. He can do that.

What he can't do is drop back five or seven steps and throw a 30-yard laser with pinpoint accuracy. He can't, and it's not because Urban Meyer didn't let him do it. It's because his genetics won't allow him to or years of lifting weights like a linebacker has made his upper body to stiff to throw the football with the necessary fluidity and flexibility and has greatly hindered his throwing mechanics.

What I see is a great college quarterback who can complete a high percentage of the (mostly easy) passes. I see a quarterback who can run for tough yardage.

College legends don’t equal great professional players. Nice guys don’t either.

[claymore]

Are you echoing their words or putting words in their mouth??
Even though you dont want to listen to what has been said... The whole organization agrees that Kyle Orton gives them the best chance to win, and Tebow is not ready to be a starting QB in the NFL.

[SOCALORADO.]

???

Because thats not his game i guess. He is not, unlike orton, the ultimate practice-pocket passing Qb....However, as we all know, when the game is on, he does things the defense just can not plan for and he successfully moves the chains that way.

That would be my best way to answer that question i suppose.

Beyond lame answer.

Let me get this straight. The entire coaching staff, ownership, and all the FO think that Tebow is simply a "baller" on game day, and will obviously be the best answer at QB, so getting those incredibly important 1st team snaps is irrelevant however because Kyle Orton can take snaps from under center and has a smooth delivery when throwing in shorts, the entire orginazation has decided that kyle orton should be the starter, and have made this clearly known to the public-media, told the HC to have orton get all the reps with the 1st team, and the team itself has stated that Orton is clearly the starter and have made him a captian, and this is all being done in a clear effort to make Tim Tebow the real starter cause hes a "baller" on game day, and well you can see it when he plays!?!?!?

[SOCALORADO.]

Im not here to defend Orton. I think he sucks. But I think He is worlds better than Tebow.

Its not so much that we think this, the freakin entire FO thinks this!

[NightTerror218]

Exactly. And Tebow is worse than him. Serilously, do you think EFX would let Orton start over Tebow if the competition was even close?

Look at Tebows QB rating over his first 3 games. He got worse, way worse. You give any DC 6 full games of film on Tebow and we will get embarresed.

HE GOT WORSE? Against the Chargers he was playing against the #1 defense in the league and kept us in the game!!

[BroncoStud]

Im not here to defend Orton. I think he sucks. But I think He is worlds better than Tebow.

I don't. I'm not sold on Tebow either but from what I've seen the Broncos have as much chance of winning games with Tebow as they do with Orton.

[hotcarl]

John Elway? More like Con Shellspray - this conman is a shell of himself and sprays his failure onto everyone around him

[claymore]

HE GOT WORSE? Against the Chargers he was playing against the #1 defense in the league and kept us in the game!!

Decidedly worse. QBR 58, completion % 44%. Thats bad

[Jsteve01]

Chicago Tribune is Obama's rag. They never lie or embelish anything, EVER!

lmao don't even get me started...i'll send you a list of ridiculous jay carney quotes

[claymore]

I don't. I'm not sold on Tebow either but from what I've seen the Broncos have as much chance of winning games with Tebow as they do with Orton.

I think that should tell you where Tebows development stands. No one in Dove Valley agrees with you.

[SOCALORADO.]

Decidedly worse. QBR 58, completion % 44%. Thats bad

But the sparklers were the best team NOT to go to the playoffs!!
Stats man! STATS!

[Nomad]

I don't. I'm not sold on Tebow either but from what I've seen the Broncos have as much chance of winning games with Tebow as they do with Orton.

Yeah, Tebow may not be better than Orton, but I don't want to see Orton under center anymore. I'd settle for Quinn if it comes to it.

But listening to Mike and Scott yesterday and they kept repeating themselves about the 'eye test'. I want to see Tebow succeed or fail in live games.

As Herm Edwards said, the veteran will get the start until he loses the locker room or really does a bad job in consecutive games. So by the bye week, if we suck with Orton under center then look for a change at the QB helm.

[NightTerror218]

Decidedly worse. QBR 58, completion % 44%. Thats bad

But we stayed in the game and lost by 1 score and it was the first time the unleashed him and let him throw the ball. Nevermind the 94 yrds rushing and 3 TDs.

[hotcarl]

But we stayed in the game and lost by 1 score and it was the first time the unleashed him and let him throw the ball. Nevermind the 94 yrds rushing and 3 TDs.

94 yards rushing? More like 94 Bards Blushing - this dungeon adventure song makes even the bravest adventurer blush

[claymore]

But we stayed in the game and lost by 1 score and it was the first time the unleashed him and let him throw the ball. Nevermind the 94 yrds rushing and 3 TDs.

If he was our running back I would be alot more proud.

[NightTerror218]

If he was our running back I would be alot more proud.

I would too.

[Slick]

You guys who have made a final assessment after three games with Studesville at head coach with no reps all year, after a lockout, and one pre season game, crack me up.

[Npba900]

Damn you opinions give me some facts.....John Elways knows what? He stated what? Quotes? Interviews? Why is he wasting his time then working with Tebow? Young/Elway/Rodgers/Roth are all mobile QBs who wont SBs. You get better in pocket with practice, as seen with all of these Qbs.

Okay so meanwhile TT is in an incubator-remedial training stage getting tutored by a 2 time SB winning HOF QB, who just so happens to be the President-GM for the Broncos.

If Elway doesn't like what he sees from Tebow between now and December 2011, look for Elway to Draft a QB No.1 in the 2012 draft. Elway won't wait to see whether Tebow can be the starter for 32 games to decide whether Tebow can lead this franchise for the next 10-15 years.

Elway is working with Tebow not because he belives Tim will someday start for Denver. Elway is personally evaluating Tebow by personally training him to make sure that he gets full evidence on whether Tebow's flaws, fundamentals, and mechanical issuess can be corrected.

[Npba900]

But we stayed in the game and lost by 1 score and it was the first time the unleashed him and let him throw the ball. Nevermind the 94 yrds rushing and 3 TDs.

Yep Tebow was lucky he didn't experience concussion city. Tebow won't last a full season as a starter running the ball in that manner. Plus Tebow career will be cut short severely due to the punishment defensive teams will dish out on Tebow.

Hence: Elway has said "Tebow Must Learn" how to play from the POCKET!!!

[Jsteve01]

People are forgetting that McCoy has been around Orton for two full seasons and Tebow and Quinn for one. The guy's a professional coach and we've got armchair qbs saying, he doesn't know what he's been seeing in practice and games. When if ever Tebow is ready, he'll get the start. Same with Quinn who btw I'd much rather see get some reps with the ones than Tim at this point.

[Jsteve01]

slick I want to come to the beach and go diving....let's make this happen

[Nomad]

People are forgetting that McCoy has been around Orton for two full seasons and Tebow and Quinn for one. The guy's a professional coach and we've got armchair qbs saying, he doesn't know what he's been seeing in practice and games. When if ever Tebow is ready, he'll get the start. Same with Quinn who btw I'd much rather see get some reps with the ones than Tim at this point.

That's a concern in itself!!