Legwold: Broncos Will Consider Drafting a QB in 2012.

[Cugel]

I haven't seen this article posted here, so:


Q&A: Broncos will consider taking a QB in first round of 2012 draft (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18681067)
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 08/15/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT

Andrew Luck (Getty Images file photo)

Today's questions about the Broncos come from Robert Johnson in Mississippi.

Q: The Broncos' situation at quarterback is a mess. John Elway inherited Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow and Brady Quinn, so do you think Elway will draft a quarterback in 2012? And will Stanford's Andrew Luck be a great NFL quarterback?

A: Orton, who has one season left on his contract, will be 29 when he hits the free-agent market next year. Elway and the Broncos haven't shown any interest in signing him to a contract extension, and they call Tebow "a work in progress." Quinn is No. 3 on the depth chart, behind Orton and Tebow.



The key conclusion from Legwold, the Broncos beat-writer?

"Look for the Broncos to consider drafting a quarterback with their first-round pick next year."

Tebow is not Fox or Elway's type of QB. No matter how much fan "excitement" there is with Tebow running wildly from side to side of the field trying to make something happen, that is NOT what Fox wants from his QB.

He wants to run the ball 500 times this season. You can't do that effectively from the spread offense. You have to be under center most of the time.

And Tebow can't do that. Not only that but it's unlikely that he can learn by January when the Broncos have to decide whether to keep Orton, make Tebow the starter or draft a QB.

Unless Orton gets hurt early and Tebow wins a bunch of games, look for the Broncos to draft a QB in the first round in 2012. Then we'll have a real life QB controversy for the next 2 years.

[silkamilkamonico]

For the first time ever, I almost hope we go 1-15. Not 0-16, because that would be futile. But having our choosing of one of those QB's would be amazing. I can dream can't I?

[Canmore]

For the first time ever, I almost hope we go 1-15. Not 0-16, because that would be futile. But having our choosing of one of those QB's would be amazing. I can dream can't I?

Were going to miss out on the suck for Luck sweepstakes. We are going to be bad just not bad enough.

[chazoe60]

Consider? Hell, I am willing to bet John Elway already knows he's picking a QB in the first round.

[BroncoBJ]

We considered drafting 1 this year as well. :salute:

Didn't do it though. :fight:

[silkamilkamonico]

Were going to miss out on the suck for Luck sweepstakes. We are going to be bad just not bad enough.

I am afraid so too. I think Denver is going to be again, entering that mediocre contender label.

Just good enough to not be in a position to draft an impact QB. Just bad enough to not do any serious damage of contending for the division.

Reminds me of the 1980's Atlanta Hawks with Dominique Wilkins.

[NightTerror218]

Breaking News: Luck forgoes draft to tryout as undrafted rookie for 49ers and old coach


Wouldn't that suck.

[silkamilkamonico]

Breaking News: Luck forgoes draft to tryout as undrafted rookie for 49ers and old coach


Wouldn't that suck.

Landry Jones

[Canmore]

I am afraid so too. I think Denver is going to be again, entering that mediocre contender label.

Just good enough to not be in a position to draft an impact QB. Just bad enough to not do any serious damage of contending for the division.

Reminds me of the 1980's Atlanta Hawks with Dominique Wilkins.

We will get one of the other quarterbacks in this draft class. It's deep.

We will be improved if the injury bug stays away. Six and ten. Out of Luck. :laugh:

[dogfish]

riveting!

[NightTerror218]

I haven't seen this article posted here, so:


Tebow is not Fox or Elway's type of QB. No matter how much fan "excitement" there is with Tebow running wildly from side to side of the field trying to make something happen, that is NOT what Fox wants from his QB.

He wants to run the ball 500 times this season. You can't do that effectively from the spread offense. You have to be under center most of the time.

And Tebow can't do that. Not only that but it's unlikely that he can learn by January when the Broncos have to decide whether to keep Orton, make Tebow the starter or draft a QB.

Unless Orton gets hurt early and Tebow wins a bunch of games, look for the Broncos to draft a QB in the first round in 2012. Then we'll have a real life QB controversy for the next 2 years.


Personally I think handing that ball off that much would help Tebow on his drops and footwork. But that is my opinion. Easy way to bring a rookie along and break them into the speed of game and what not. Just like Jets are doing to Sanchez.

[Nomad]

Landry Jones

I believe the BRONCOS would realistically be in the running for this guy! I see the BRONCOS picking around 6 or 7 in the draft!

[Lancane]

I believe the BRONCOS would realistically be in the running for this guy! I see the BRONCOS picking around 6 or 7 in the draft!

I would also add Nomad, that Bowlen truly seemed to want Sam Bradford, I know the Broncos tried to trade up for him, that Jones like Bradford is a highly regarded Oklahoma product. We should also remember that Bowlen being an alumni of the school has long had ties to the staff there, which has been reported time and time again. I mentioned in another thread that by default I believe Jones will become the odds on favorite to be the Broncos' first pick if we have no shot at Luck.

[Nomad]

I would also add Nomad, that Bowlen truly seemed to want Sam Bradford, I know the Broncos tried to trade up for him, that Jones like Bradford is a highly regarded Oklahoma product. We should also remember that Bowlen being an alumni of the school has long had ties to the staff there, which has been reported time and time again. I mentioned in another thread that by default I believe Jones will become the odds on favorite to be the Broncos' first pick if we have no shot at Luck.

I guess I'll have to break down and watch Big 12 football this year....OU that is!:lol:

I believe Buff, Cincy and Wash will be in the running for the top 3 with Cincy edging them out for #1. Should be an interesting run to see who will 'suck for Luck'.:lol:

[NightTerror218]

I guess I'll have to break down and watch Big 12 football this year....OU that is!:lol:

I believe Buff, Cincy and Wash will be in the running for the top 3 with Cincy edging them out for #1. Should be an interesting run to see who will 'suck for Luck'.:lol:

Panthers did it and then he didnt enter draft :P

SF will suck for LUck, along with Raiders, Seattle, Wash, Miami and Buffalo. If Stafford is injured again is see Detroit doing it.

[Lancane]

I guess I'll have to break down and watch Big 12 football this year....OU that is!:lol:

I believe Buff, Cincy and Wash will be in the running for the top 3 with Cincy edging them out for #1. Should be an interesting run to see who will 'suck for Luck'.:lol:

Could you imagine the storm on the boards if Luck went to Washington with Shanahan? Hahahaha...

I don't think Cincinnati will be in the running, I think they'll be better then some believe and I know that Dalton is already winning over the organization and fans.

Could see Buffalo getting Luck, they've been more deprived then us of quarterback talent...that would be a good fit in all honesty.

Let's just hope Oakland doesn't get him or Kansas City doesn't get Luck, I think the Bronco Nation would be weeping for eternity come that.

[Medford Bronco]

We considered drafting 1 this year as well. :salute:

Didn't do it though. :fight:

Please get rid of that Josh McLovin sig.:lol: The only ones that had any McLovin were the other teams of the AFC West since we started 6-0 in 09.

Hello BJ hope you are well :D

[Lonestar]

So if we plan on handing off 500 times a season why would we need an elite qb.

Oh I know another shiny toy.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[TXBRONC]

For the first time ever, I almost hope we go 1-15. Not 0-16, because that would be futile. But having our choosing of one of those QB's would be amazing. I can dream can't I?

1-15 isn't futile? :lol:

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying pick a fight I just found that kind of funny.

[Lancane]

So if we plan on handing off 500 times a season why would we need an elite qb.

Oh I know another shiny toy.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Name the last team to win a Super Bowl without an elite or even an established franchise quarterback?

And I should point out that one dimensional teams, those who exclusively depend on the run game, passing game or on their defense fail more times then succeed in the modern era of the sport, because once you find their flaws and exploit their weaknesses they're usually done for because others take notice of that exploitation.

[Sinthor]

Personally I think handing that ball off that much would help Tebow on his drops and footwork. But that is my opinion. Easy way to bring a rookie along and break them into the speed of game and what not. Just like Jets are doing to Sanchez.

I agree, that's why it's a shame. I do see TT's only real chance of success, at least here in Denver, is getting to start a decent number of games this year due to injury or if he continues to perform well in pre-season games and can get his practice performance elevated just a little bit. I believe that's why the Broncos were trading Orton as well, counting on that defensive and running game improvement so they could give him the reigns, but with the trade muffed, the QB situation is a cluster now. Even if TT won the job, if the team struggled, due to his play or not, you'd have people saying, 'but Orton looks just as good or better in practice, maybe we'd be better off with him starting.' Makes it difficult. I still have hope TT can win the job before week 1 but if not, we may miss out on developing a great talent. Then again we may not. I just wanted to be able to see if it would happen and it looks like the odds are much less in favor of that now.

[TXBRONC]

Name the last team to win a Super Bowl without an elite or even an established franchise quarterback?

And I should point out that one dimensional teams, those who exclusively depend on the run game, passing game or on their defense fail more times then succeed in the modern era of the sport, because once you find their flaws and exploit their weaknesses they're usually done for because others take notice of that exploitation.

Winning a Super Bowl without a franchise quarterback is possible but it is extremely rare.

Brad Johnson is the last journeyman quarterback to win a Super Bowl and that was seven years ago.

[Lancane]

Winning a Super Bowl without a franchise quarterback is possible but it is extremely rare.

Brad Johnson is the last journeyman quarterback to win a Super Bowl and that was seven years ago.

I'll go one better, since the 1980, only five teams have won with journeyman quarterbacks at the helm. The 85' Bears with Jim McMahon, though some considered him a franchise quarterback, he soon thereafter became a journeyman because of his lackluster play; The 87' Redskins with Jay Schroeder and Doug Williams (Painful Memory...I know); The 91' Redskins with Mark Rypien; 00' Ravens with Tony Banks and Trent Dilfer; and lastly the 02' Buccaneers with Brad Johnson.

The 85' Chicago Bears were 1st in Defense and 2nd overall on offense (which was unusual for Ditka, usually his teams had good defenses and middle of the road offenses). The 87' Washington Redskins were 4th in overall offense and 6th in overall defense. The 91' Washington Redskins were the 1st overall offense that season and had the 2nd best overall defense. The 00' Baltimore Ravens had the best overall defense but were 14th overall in offense and the 02' Tampa Bay Buccaneers were much the same, 1st overall on defense and 18th overall offensively.

[bcbronc]

or Kansas City doesn't get Luck, I think the Bronco Nation would be weeping for eternity come that.

might make Matt Cassel available. Wouldn't that round the circle nicely...:lol:

[Lancane]

might make Matt Cassel available. Wouldn't that round the circle nicely...:lol:

I would literally go and piss on Brian Xander's SUV if he brought in Cassel! :lol:

[BroncoStud]

If we don't get Luck or Barkley then I hope we just opt to build the defense and roll with Tebow or Quinn. There is a major dropoff from Luck to the rest, it's almost Luck or defense for my hopes.

[sneakers]

***********Breaking News**********

Broncos may consider drafting a Guard in the 2012 draft.


***********Breaking News**********

[Lancane]

If we don't get Luck or Barkley then I hope we just opt to build the defense and roll with Tebow or Quinn. There is a major dropoff from Luck to the rest, it's almost Luck or defense for my hopes.

That's very untrue BS, Jones has a little more upside then Barkley...though I am high on Barkley as well, Jones can likewise make all the throws and has a pretty big arm himself. But you're overlooking Kirk Cousins who is the most polished quarterback in the draft behind Luck, and what about Lindley who is from a pro-style offense and has a howitzer for an arm, not to mention Foles or Tannehill.

And Jones is a very big possibility, so I wouldn't discount him or any of the others so quickly.

[Lancane]

***********Breaking News**********

Broncos may consider drafting a Guard in the 2012 draft.


***********Breaking News**********

Yeah in the 6th round! ;)

[Lonestar]

Name the last team to win a Super Bowl without an elite or even an established franchise quarterback?

And I should point out that one dimensional teams, those who exclusively depend on the run game, passing game or on their defense fail more times then succeed in the modern era of the sport, because once you find their flaws and exploit their weaknesses they're usually done for because others take notice of that exploitation.

Hey I agree, sounds like we have the wrong coach to get us there..

I happen to think Tebow will get us there if given the proper training..

I for one do not think we have to waste a top pick for a "maybe" again..

I knew your all enamoured with this upcoming class but hell it sounds like that every year about this time..

I'm not so sure that Luck is all that without his HC and I'm damned sure his HC is not all that with out Luck..

But that is for another time..

I absolutely guarantee that DEN will take a QB in next years draft..

IIRC with the excpetion of the 05 and 07 draft we always did.

[Lonestar]

If we don't get Luck or Barkley then I hope we just opt to build the defense and roll with Tebow or Quinn. There is a major dropoff from Luck to the rest, it's almost Luck or defense for my hopes.

I agree maybe this coming draft we can pick up a couple REAL DL guys preferably DT's.

I'm pretty sure that we will not be in a position to get luck and I'm not all that sure he is a sure thing.. seem to have heard that many times in the past..

right now P Manning seems to be about the only one..

[BroncoStud]

That's very untrue BS, Jones has a little more upside then Barkley...though I am high on Barkley as well, Jones can likewise make all the throws and has a pretty big arm himself. But you're overlooking Kirk Cousins who is the most polished quarterback in the draft behind Luck, and what about Lindley who is from a pro-style offense and has a howitzer for an arm, not to mention Foles or Tannehill.

And Jones is a very big possibility, so I wouldn't discount him or any of the others so quickly.

I'm an OU season ticket holder dude, Jones doesn't have it mentally to be an elite NFL QB. Think Drew Bledsoe with a little better mobility. He has Orton0syndrome, he often struggles when in close games and his team bails him out.

Granted he's a good college QB he's nowhere NEAR a Sam Bradford, and as high as Denver might be picking I might vomit if his name is called. I'd take any of the others before Jones.

[Lancane]

I'm an OU season ticket holder dude, Jones doesn't have it mentally to be an elite NFL QB. Think Drew Bledsoe with a little better mobility. He has Orton0syndrome, he often struggles when in close games and his team bails him out.

Granted he's a good college QB he's nowhere NEAR a Sam Bradford, and as high as Denver might be picking I might vomit if his name is called. I'd take any of the others before Jones.

I've seen good and bad in all the prospects, but that is normal. The question is, can he be molded into a franchise quarterback? There are a lot of people that are not so high on Barkley either, but again I have to ask the same question. People are acting like Luck will not struggle if we drafted him, he will need time to develop as well, whether sitting for a season or being thrown to the wolves. And Jones truly reminds me of Plummer more then Orton, he tries to do things to win only to sometimes have committed a terrible error in judgement. Barkley is far more like Orton, he manages games well, has a solid arm and can make all of the throws, where he differs though is that he's passionate and has a drive to succeed, and to win.

[Canmore]

I've seen good and bad in all the prospects, but that is normal. The question is, can he be molded into a franchise quarterback? There are a lot of people that are not so high on Barkley either, but again I have to ask the same question. People are acting like Luck will not struggle if we drafted him, he will need time to develop as well, whether sitting for a season or being thrown to the wolves. And Jones truly reminds me of Plummer more then Orton, he tries to do things to win only to sometimes have committed a terrible error in judgement. Barkley is far more like Orton, he manages games well, has a solid arm and can make all of the throws, where he differs though is that he's passionate and has a drive to succeed, and to win.

If we draft a franchise quarterback and start him there will be growing pains, there always is. The game is just so much faster than college and all the players are athletes. I don't see our new quarterback sitting. Who would he sit behind. Pure speculation, but that is how I see it.

[Clipworthy]

If Tebow doesn't get his shot this season, I find it very hard for the organization to justify drafting another quarterback early.....all the more reason for them to let the Tebow era begin already.......they hurt the entire organization by not giving him his chance

[Canmore]

If Tebow doesn't get his shot this season, I find it very hard for the organization to justify drafting another quarterback early.....all the more reason for them to let the Tebow era begin already.......they hurt the entire organization by not giving him his chance

If EFX don't feel Tebow is the answer, I expect them to select a quarterback in the first round next year. Do I want to see him get a shot? Yes. I think that is why Kyle was on the trading block, but that didn't work out. Kyle never stays healthy. There is a good chance we will see Tebow this year.

[Lancane]

If Tebow doesn't get his shot this season, I find it very hard for the organization to justify drafting another quarterback early.....all the more reason for them to let the Tebow era begin already.......they hurt the entire organization by not giving him his chance

No they do not, if they truly feel that he's not the one or not ready then filling that void is of extreme importance. If we all of a sudden find ourselves in a position similar to the Chargers when they had Rivers and Brees, then so be it. It really hasn't hurt them much and as much as I like Brees, Rivers is a far better quarterback IMHO. Better to have too much talent then too little and to be sitting there left wondering why you can not compete. And let's face facts, Tebow was drafted in the first round, he's not really a first round quarterback in terms of intangibles, he is and was a project which usually are not drafted in the top two rounds, he was graded that high because of fan speculation more so then actual talent Clip.

[Clipworthy]

No they do not, if they truly feel that he's not the one or not ready then filling that void is of extreme importance. If we all of a sudden find ourselves in a position similar to the Chargers when they had Rivers and Brees, then so be it. It really hasn't hurt them much and as much as I like Brees, Rivers is a far better quarterback IMHO. Better to have too much talent then too little and to be sitting there left wondering why you can not compete. And let's face facts, Tebow was drafted in the first round, he's not really a first round quarterback in terms of quarterback intangibles, he is and was a project which you usually are not drafted in the top two rounds, he was graded that high because of fan speculation more so then actual talent Clip.

I mean that they hurt the Broncos as a whole by having to put in another 1st round draft pick at QB when the team is so desperate at other positions. The ageless rule, see what you got before you go out and get another

[RebelRocker]

Consider? Hell, I am willing to bet John Elway already knows he's picking a QB in the first round.

Make that two of us.



I said this the other day and I'll say it again, EFX wants their Bradford, Ryan, Flacco type QB. They want to improve their running game and defense this year, so they can use the picks necessary to get "their guy" and develop him, properly. That means, you start that guy day one and slowly bring him along and now you can afford to do that because your team is much more competitive then it is right now.

[Canmore]

Make that two of us.



I said this the other day and I'll say it again, EFX wants their Bradford, Ryan, Flacco type QB. They want to improve their running game and defense this year, so they can use the picks necessary to get "their guy" and develop him, properly. That means, you start that guy day one and slowly bring him along and now you can afford to do that because your team is much more competitive then it is right now.

I think you are right and we are taking a quarterback in the first round. The only scenario I see that is different is if Tebow starts ten games, lights it up and we win at least seven of them. Even then I wonder and that picture is pretty hard to believe.

[Clipworthy]

Yeah... they hire Fox and plan on going out and getting a Bradford-type quarterback

veeeerrrrryyyyy likely.


Fox's entire offense that he is installing is based on running and play action, not coming out in a spread and lighting up the scoreboard. what quarterback fits that pretty damn well....oh yeah..... he's on the team already....

you think Fox came here knowing Elway wanted to go a different direction in terms of offensive philosophy by continuing with an Orton-type QB or drafting their very own "Bradford"?

If they wanted that type of offense, Fox is NOT the man for the job.

Believe what you want, but unless Elway and the rest of the staff are foolish, they hired Fox and his style of play knowing Tebow was the building block

[Lancane]

I mean that they hurt the Broncos as a whole by having to put in another 1st round draft pick at QB when the team is so desperate at other positions. The ageless rule, see what you got before you go out and get another

Well, let's look at the picture from a whole, Denver has a very young team with a few veterans...but overall there is a ton of youth, we have a pretty solid offensive line, a mixed bag at tailback but there is some youth at the position, we're alright at the receiver and tight end positions. Defensively we have some talent, Ayers is supposedly improving as is Thomas, we have Dumervil and while the line isn't solid, we'll add more next year, our linebacker corps. is a mixed bag, but Williams is above average, we have the top linebacker prospect on the other side and we have a good group in the middle. Cornerback is a position that needs some youth, but overall we're better then some in this league and at safety we've induced a whole heap load of talent.

If you look at it from that perspective and know that Denver will only lose three or four free agents next year, Orton and Quinn among them. Then really in terms of the best time to push for a franchise quarterback it would be the better time because we're not glaring with holes, it just seems like it because we really haven't gelled as a team and because of the youth we lack in experience.

For arguments sake let's say that it's draft time and we have the 6th overall pick, we might be able to draft Worthy or Forston if they decide to come out, otherwise there are some capable defensive tackles later in the draft, such as Powell, Thompson, Reyes, Chapman, Short or Howard. So if we use our first on either Barkley or Jones, we can still use other picks to add cornerback, offensive line depth and more specifically defensive tackle help. And we'd still be alright, because we're not glaring at a number of positions like we could be.

[claymore]

Yeah... they hire Fox and plan on going out and getting a Bradford-type quarterback

veeeerrrrryyyyy likely.


Fox's entire offense that he is installing is based on running and play action, not coming out in a spread and lighting up the scoreboard. what quarterback fits that pretty damn well....oh yeah..... he's on the team already....

you think Fox came here knowing Elway wanted to go a different direction in terms of offensive philosophy by continuing with an Orton-type QB or drafting their very own "Bradford"?

If they wanted that type of offense, Fox is NOT the man for the job.

Believe what you want, but unless Elway and the rest of the staff are foolish, they hired Fox and his style of play knowing Tebow was the building block
Tebows is the prototypical spread offense QB. In fact thats what is hurting him now.

He cant play from under center. If you cant play from under center you cant have play action.

EFX all know they were stuck with Tebow. They just have to find a way to get rid of him.

[Canmore]

Well, let's look at the picture from a whole, Denver has a very young team with a few veterans...but overall there is a ton of youth, we have a pretty solid offensive line, a mixed bag at tailback but there is some youth at the position, we're alright at the receiver and tight end positions. Defensively we have some talent, Ayers is supposedly improving as is Thomas, we have Dumervil and while the line isn't solid, we'll add more next year, our linebacker corps. is a mixed bag, but Williams is above average, we have the top linebacker prospect on the other side and we have a good group in the middle. Cornerback is a position that needs some youth, but overall we're better then some in this league and at safety we've induced a whole heap load of talent.

If you look at it from that perspective and know that Denver will only lose three or four free agents next year, Orton and Quinn among them. Then really in terms of the best time to push for a franchise quarterback it would be the better time because we're not glaring with holes, it just seems like it because we really haven't gelled as a team and because of the youth we lack in experience.

For arguments sake let's say that it's draft time and we have the 6th overall pick, we might be able to draft Worthy or Forston if they decide to come out, otherwise there are some capable defensive tackles later in the draft, such as Powell, Thompson, Reyes, Chapman, Short or Howard. So if we use our first on either Barkley or Jones, we can still use other picks to add cornerback, offensive line depth and more specifically defensive tackle help. And we'd still be alright, because we're not glaring at a number of positions like we could be.

Your thinking is solid but you're counting on a lot of youth this year to be keepers (not that we have any other choice). We will have a number of holes to fill still. Like you said, we have no real depth on the offensive and defensive lines. Runningback is up in the air. Corners are old. Quarterback is a huge question mark. To me that is still a lot of weaknesses. With that all said I think we are drafting a quarterback number one. The draft looks too deep and we need one. A prototypical one. We will pray that the draft this year and next year are kind to us and we can add some starters and depth next year. We may even splurge a little in free agency.

[Clipworthy]

Tebows is the prototypical spread offense QB. In fact thats what is hurting him now.

He cant play from under center. If you cant play from under center you cant have play action.

EFX all know they were stuck with Tebow. They just have to find a way to get rid of him.

Tebow played in a spread that wasn't based on passing all over the field, it was an option system, with tebow running a lot. If Tebow could adapt to playing under center, he'd be extremely dangerous in Fox's offense. Play action with the threat of a QB run, a RB run, or a pass down field wouldn't cause complete havoc for the defensive coordinator?

[Clipworthy]

What can I say, I want to see Tebow pull it off :elefant:

[Canmore]

Tebow played in a spread that wasn't based on passing all over the field, it was an option system, with tebow running a lot. If Tebow could adapt to playing under center, he'd be extremely dangerous in Fox's offense. Play action with the threat of a QB run, a RB run, or a pass down field wouldn't cause complete havoc for the defensive coordinator?

Accounting for a mobile quarterback plays havoc with defenses in this league, but you can't have your quarterback running all the time. They don't hold up, even one as big as Tebow. They get hurt.

[Clipworthy]

Accounting for a mobile quarterback plays havoc with defenses in this league, but you can't have your quarterback running all the time. They don't hold up, even one as big as Tebow. They get hurt.

Tebow has proved he can deliver the passes down the field. If Tebow wasn't playing with running backs and wide receivers fresh off their shift at wal-mart...he might not have to run it every time they need yards

[Canmore]

Tebow has proved he can deliver the passes down the field. If Tebow wasn't playing with running backs and wide receivers fresh off their shift at wal-mart...he might not have to run it every time they need yards

Lol. Accuracy is a big question mark with Tim. One that I feel won't get answered unless he plays. With Orton at quarterback there is a good chance he will get hurt. He always does. The real question maybe when.

[bcbronc]

Yeah... they hire Fox and plan on going out and getting a Bradford-type quarterback

veeeerrrrryyyyy likely.


Fox's entire offense that he is installing is based on running and play action, not coming out in a spread and lighting up the scoreboard. what quarterback fits that pretty damn well....oh yeah..... he's on the team already....

you think Fox came here knowing Elway wanted to go a different direction in terms of offensive philosophy by continuing with an Orton-type QB or drafting their very own "Bradford"?

If they wanted that type of offense, Fox is NOT the man for the job.

Believe what you want, but unless Elway and the rest of the staff are foolish, they hired Fox and his style of play knowing Tebow was the building block

I dunno, did you catch the preseason game vs Dallas? There was a lot more spread offense than I was expecting, and that's not likely to decrease as the regular season playbook comes out.

[Clipworthy]

Lol. Accuracy is a big question mark with Tim. One that I feel won't get answered unless he plays. With Orton at quarterback there is a good chance he will get hurt. He always does. The real question maybe when.

Tebow struggles with placement, that can be developed over time in my opinion

[Canmore]

Tebow struggles with placement, that can be developed over time in my opinion

Especially to his right on short and medium length throws. Will reps fix that? I don't know. I do know that Tim will work at it, but games are the ultimate test. Will he get his chance? That is to be determined.

[Clipworthy]

Especially to his right on short and medium length throws. Will reps fix that? I don't know. I do know that Tim will work at it, but games are the ultimate test. Will he get his chance? That is to be determined.

Completely agree, without a chance to develop he won't. Real games are the only real way to judge his quarterbacking ability.

[Lancane]

Tebow has proved he can deliver the passes down the field. If Tebow wasn't playing with running backs and wide receivers fresh off their shift at wal-mart...he might not have to run it every time they need yards

A) Tebow has a weak and slow release, which effects not only the timing of his passes, but likewise effects the velocity, overall zip and accuracy.

B) His accuracy is a huge question not in just regards to his release, too many times has he thrown the ball off the mark only to force the receiver to adjust.

C) He's a spread quarterback in the worse sense, he is more effective still out of the shotgun, he needs to remember that he needs to keep to the pocket.

D) Tebow has shown terrible vision in regards to his reads and his check-downs, he tucked and ran with the ball several times where receivers were open for big gains down the field.

E) He lacks the ability to give himself time to pass outside his legs, he would benefit greatly learning to either pump-fake or to look down a receiver and change up at the last moment.

F) His air-balls, allowing too much hang-time will destroy the effectiveness of an offense, it allows defenders too much time to adjust and leaves the receivers up in the air, forcing them to make something happen. He needs to learn to throw the ball with a little more grease.

[Clipworthy]

A) Tebow has a weak and slow release, which effects not only the timing of his passes, but likewise effects the velocity, overall zip and accuracy.

B) His accuracy is a huge question not in just regards to his release, too many times has he thrown the ball off the mark only to force the receiver to adjust.

C) He's a spread quarterback in the worse sense, he is more effective still out of the shotgun, he needs to remember that he needs to keep to the pocket.

D) Tebow has shown terrible vision in regards to his reads and his check-downs, he tucked and ran with the ball several times where receivers were open for big gains down the field.

E) He lacks the ability to give himself time to pass outside his legs, he would benefit greatly learning to either pump-fake or to look down a receiver and change up at the last moment.

F) His air-balls, allowing too much hang-time will destroy the effectiveness of an offense, it allows defenders too much time to adjust and leaves the receivers up in the air, forcing them to make something happen. He needs to learn to throw the ball with a little more grease.

The only problem with your points are that they assume Tebow is immune to what 90% of young NFL quarterbacks go through. They need game experience, they can't always come out gangbusters.

Imagine the mountain of pressure on Tebow's shoulders every time he steps on the field... "don't mess up, don't mess up... read, read, read, "... he needs time to learn how to relax and let his instincts take over

[Lancane]

I dunno, did you catch the preseason game vs Dallas? There was a lot more spread offense than I was expecting, and that's not likely to decrease as the regular season playbook comes out.

Fox's offense in Carolina was a spread variant, I've told people to expect seeing more of it. Granted that Fox likes to sell the run to set up a play action pass now and then, more times then not though he likes quarterbacks that sell the run but retain their presence in the pocket and can spread the field with the long pass. Really, the idea quarterback would be a mix...he'd have Cutler's arm and accuracy, Plummer's never say die attitude and tenacity to make things happen, Orton's overall game managing abilities and Tebow's football intelligence and personality.

Someone get me a saw, a needle and some thick thread, this could be fun! :lol:

[Lancane]

The only problem with your points are that they assume Tebow is immune to what 90% of young NFL quarterbacks go through. They need game experience, they can't always come out gangbusters.

Imagine the mountain of pressure on Tebow's shoulders every time he steps on the field... "don't mess up, don't mess up... read, read, read, "... he needs time to learn how to relax and let his instincts take over

How is that any different from quarterbacks drafted in the first round? All feel that pressure, but he's showing that while improved that he's still farther away in those aspects most important in giving him the reigns.

[Clipworthy]

How is that any different from quarterbacks drafted in the first round? All feel that pressure, but he's showing that while improved that he's still farther away in those aspects most important in giving him the reigns.

Tebow has a lot to learn compared to others, I can't deny that. It might be a longer learning curve, but does that mean he can't make it work? There is no way to answer that yet

[bcbronc]

Fox's offense in Carolina was a spread variant, I've told people to expect seeing more of it. Granted that Fox likes to sell the run to set up a play action pass now and then, more times then not though he likes quarterbacks that sell the run but retain their presence in the pocket and can spread the field with the long pass. Really, the idea quarterback would be a mix...he'd have Cutler's arm and accuracy, Plummer's never say die attitude and tenacity to make things happen, Orton's overall game managing abilities and Tebow's football intelligence and personality.

Someone get me a saw, a needle and some thick thread, this could be fun! :lol:

the way things have been going for this franchise over the past decade or so, we'd end up getting Cutler's diabetes and hair, Plummer's fashion sense and ability to "communicate" with the fans, Orton's drinking and clutchness and Tebow's nose and cult following. :lol:

[Canmore]

the way things have been going for this franchise over the past decade or so, we'd end up getting Cutler's diabetes and hair, Plummer's fashion sense and ability to "communicate" with the fans, Orton's drinking and clutchness and Tebow's nose and cult following. :lol:

Lol. Not a pretty picture.

[dogfish]

What can I say, I want to see Tebow pull it off :elefant:

not that there's anything wrong with that. . . .

[Lancane]

Tebow has a lot to learn compared to others, I can't deny that. It might be a longer learning curve, but does that mean he can't make it work? There is no way to answer that yet

No, but one thing that effects him is that the learning curve time is a lot less then it has ever been. Point and fact, look how many younger first round athletes have been cut thus far. Maybin, Harvey and so on, look how little Quinn got before they gave up on him. When people say the 'Not For Long' league there is a reason that it has become regarded as such.

It would be cool to see Tebow succeed, but we can not afford to wait two more years for him to be ready.

[Canmore]

No, but one thing that effects him is that the learning curve time is a lot less then it has ever been. Point and fact, look how many younger first round athletes have been cut thus far. Maybin, Harvey and so on, look how little Quinn got before they gave up on him. When people say the 'Not For Long' league there is a reason that it has become regarded as such.

It would be cool to see Tebow succeed, but we can not afford to wait two more years for him to be ready.

These are facts. I don't think Elway is going to wait, not with the draft class of 2012 staring at him.

[claymore]

No, but one thing that effects him is that the learning curve time is a lot less then it has ever been. Point and fact, look how many younger first round athletes have been cut thus far. Maybin, Harvey and so on, look how little Quinn got before they gave up on him. When people say the 'Not For Long' league there is a reason that it has become regarded as such.

It would be cool to see Tebow succeed, but we can not afford to wait two more years for him to be ready.


These are facts. I don't think Elway is going to wait, not with the draft class of 2012 staring at him.
He cant wait, he has 3 years to turn things around. Elway has flat out said Tebow cant play from under center at this point.

I dont think Tebow will ever be our starting QB. We drafted him wayyyyyyy to high. And he is to much of a distraction to a regime that didnt draft him.

[Canmore]

He cant wait, he has 3 years to turn things around. Elway has flat out said Tebow cant play from under center at this point.

I dont think Tebow will ever be our starting QB. We drafted him wayyyyyyy to high. And he is to much of a distraction to a regime that didnt draft him.

I don't think the distraction is the problem, it's his mechanics and accuracy.

[claymore]

I don't think the distraction is the problem, it's his mechanics and accuracy.
His mechanics and accuracy are the main problem. But when the fans boo the starting QB at scrimmages, and every question you are asked is about Tebow, and there is a huge QB contriversey for someone who you know for a fact will never, ever start... The distraction becomes an issue.

[RebelRocker]

Tebow has a lot to learn compared to others, I can't deny that. It might be a longer learning curve, but does that mean he can't make it work? There is no way to answer that yet

Exactly.... That's why he should have NEVER been a first round pick to begin with.

[Canmore]

His mechanics and accuracy are the main problem. But when the fans boo the starting QB at scrimmages, and every question you are asked is about Tebow, and there is a huge QB contriversey for someone who you know for a fact will never, ever start... The distraction becomes an issue.

You have a very valid point. I know we have dealt with distractions before, but probably not one of the magnitude of Tebow Hysteria. At least not in the information age we are in now.

Will Tebow ever start? Boy that is a hard one. By many accounts Brady Quinn has outplayed him. I know that I really liked the looks of his game in the preseason opener versus the Cowboys. Orton tends to get hurt. Will Tebow be the player to replace him?

[RebelRocker]

His mechanics and accuracy are the main problem. But when the fans boo the starting QB at scrimmages, and every question you are asked is about Tebow, and there is a huge QB contriversey for someone who you know for a fact will never, ever start... The distraction becomes an issue.

Isn't the definition of a "team cancer" is a guy that divides the fanbase and causes distraction in the locker room? If so, that's exactly what Tebowmania has done to our team. It has dumbed down a lot of our fanbase and many have started to believe in fantasy and potential over cold hard facts.

How would you feel to be a member of the Broncos right now knowing that every time somebody interviews you, YOU know they bring up a guy that's totally irrelevant to helping you win games, right now? As a veteran, I'd be disturbed with the amount of attention an unproven player has gotten and by nature, that causes a tad of resentment.


Tebow the guy is hard not to like, but Tebowmania?? That's a full blown cancer, if you ask me.

[claymore]

Isn't the definition of a "team cancer" is a guy that divides the fanbase and causes distraction in the locker room? If so, that's exactly what Tebowmania has done to our team. It has dumbed down a lot of our fanbase and many have started to believe in fantasy and potential over cold hard facts.

How would you feel to be a member of the Broncos right now knowing that every time somebody interviews you, YOU know they bring up a guy that's totally irrelevant to helping you win games, right now? As a veteran, I'd be disturbed with the amount of attention an unproven player has gotten and by nature, that causes a tad of resentment.


Tebow the guy is hard not to like, but Tebowmania?? That's a full blown cancer, if you ask me.

I think its a cancer on the fanbase. It cant be good for the team either.

[Canmore]

I think its a cancer on the fanbase. It cant be good for the team either.

I know that I could do without the Tebowmania. It gets very old very fast.

[chazoe60]

Name the last team to win a Super Bowl without an elite or even an established franchise quarterback?

And I should point out that one dimensional teams, those who exclusively depend on the run game, passing game or on their defense fail more times then succeed in the modern era of the sport, because once you find their flaws and exploit their weaknesses they're usually done for because others take notice of that exploitation.

Even the two greatest teams of all time that were built that way, the 2000 Ravens and the 1985 Bears, were one hit wonders. Teams with franchise QBs have staying power.

I honestly think winning 1 game this season would be better long term for this franchise than winning 5 or 6. Andrew Luck would win SBs here, IMHO.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'm going to once again hold my opinion of Andrew Luck et al. I want to see how he does without Harbaugh. How many times have we heard that "next year's insert position here class is the best in a decade"? I thought this years class was supposed to be super awesome but by draft day, guys who were supposedly "sure fire #1 overall picks" like Locker had been over analyzed and the best pure passer fell to the 3rd round (Mallett).

It will be interesting to see how many guys actually do break out and how many new faces there will be in the mix and whether or not it will be a great class. Before last year, I'd never heard of Luck. I'd never heard of Cam Newton or Blaine Gabbert. All I'd heard was how awesome Jake Locker and Ryan Mallet were and how the 2011 QB class was going to be AWESOME.

We'll see. Let's not jump the gun. It's a loooonnnngggg way to go until next year's draft.

[SOCALORADO.]

Enjoy. DEN is getting one of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTmKA-AiFUc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcYFjD4PK8E

Note both QBs running pro style NFL offenses, which use 3,5,7 step drops, shotgun, playaction, bootleg etc,etc. Also note BOTH QBs are very good at getting out of the pocket and scrambling when needed. Both have cannons and can make any NFL throw.
Both are considered top 3 picks.
Enjoy!
http://www.businessinsider.com/image/4cf32a1bcadcbb6019190000/andrew-luck.jpg
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Matt+Barkley+_ScR75R4fPCm.jpg

[Jsteve01]

I don't know why but Barkley strikes me as the next Claussen....maybe Im wrong

[Npba900]

Isn't the definition of a "team cancer" is a guy that divides the fanbase and causes distraction in the locker room? If so, that's exactly what Tebowmania has done to our team. It has dumbed down a lot of our fanbase and many have started to believe in fantasy and potential over cold hard facts.

How would you feel to be a member of the Broncos right now knowing that every time somebody interviews you, YOU know they bring up a guy that's totally irrelevant to helping you win games, right now? As a veteran, I'd be disturbed with the amount of attention an unproven player has gotten and by nature, that causes a tad of resentment.

Tebow the guy is hard not to like, but Tebowmania?? That's a full blown cancer, if you ask me.

Tebow isn't a Cancer by no stretch of the imagination. What Tebow really is, is a Tight End parading around as a QB! Hopefully Elway can convince Tebow to consider changing positions if he truly wants Tim to have a long successful NFL career. I know it would break Tebow's heart to no end. But sometimes the truth hurts. Elway's greatest gift to Tebow would be to be as honest as possible. Tebow has lifted weights not to play the QB position, but so as to play linebacker or TE.

Hell Kordell Stewart could have had a much more successful career had he become a full time WR in the NFL.

[BroncoStud]

If it isn't Luck go defense. No-brainer to me.

[HammeredOut]

Isn't the definition of a "team cancer" is a guy that divides the fanbase and causes distraction in the locker room? If so, that's exactly what Tebowmania has done to our team. It has dumbed down a lot of our fanbase and many have started to believe in fantasy and potential over cold hard facts.

How would you feel to be a member of the Broncos right now knowing that every time somebody interviews you, YOU know they bring up a guy that's totally irrelevant to helping you win games, right now? As a veteran, I'd be disturbed with the amount of attention an unproven player has gotten and by nature, that causes a tad of resentment.


Tebow the guy is hard not to like, but Tebowmania?? That's a full blown cancer, if you ask me.


That is the exact reason why Cleveland couldn't unload Brady Quinn fast enough. I think they even offered up the team dog, waterboy, and a pack of hotdogs. "Quinnville" had divided the fans in Cleveland, much like "Tebowville" in Denver.

[Npba900]

Think about it folks! Could Tebow in fact become a SLASH type player in the NFL????

Where the scenario would be Tebow is involved with 3-5 QB-Throwing snaps while the remainder of 20-25 plays as TE or H-Back? Hell Tebow could actually be the next heir-apparent replacement for Shannon Sharpe and break all of Sharpe's records along the way as well.

[SOCALORADO.]

Think about it folks! Could Tebow in fact become a SLASH type player in the NFL????

Where the scenario would be Tebow is involved with 3-5 QB-Throwing snaps while the remainder of 20-25 plays as TE or H-Back? Hell Tebow could actually be the next heir-apparent replacement for Shannon Sharpe and break all of Sharpe's records along the way as well.

I hope this is what happens. DEN drafts Luck or Barkley, and TT goes to TE/H-back/Wildcat QB.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I hope this is what happens. DEN drafts Luck or Barkley, and TT goes to TE/H-back/Wildcat QB.

DEN loses out on Luck, drafts Barkley, he is a bust, but they have already traded Tebow who goes on to be a HOFer.

We are stuck with Quinn and they bring in another Simms type to "compete" with him.

EFX gets fired and we are on to another rebuilding project...

[claymore]

I hope this is what happens. DEN drafts Luck or Barkley, and TT goes to TE/H-back/Wildcat QB.

Id like this. Tebow is a talent for sure. You could do some crazy shit with him and the right OC.

[SOCALORADO.]

DEN loses out on Luck, drafts Barkley, he is a bust, but they have already traded Tebow who goes on to be a HOFer.

We are stuck with Quinn and they bring in another Simms type to "compete" with him.

EFX gets fired and we are on to another rebuilding project...

Child please.

[Npba900]

DEN loses out on Luck, drafts Barkley, he is a bust, but they have already traded Tebow who goes on to be a HOFer.

We are stuck with Quinn and they bring in another Simms type to "compete" with him.

EFX gets fired and we are on to another rebuilding project...

Wasting time with hoping Tebow to become a legit NFL QB will get EFX fired as well. Then the next thing you know the Broncos are under going its 3rd rebuilding since the firing of Shannahan. :rolleyes:

[Nomad]

Just say NO to Barkley!!:welcome:

[Lonestar]

DEN loses out on Luck, drafts Barkley, he is a bust, but they have already traded Tebow who goes on to be a HOFer.

We are stuck with Quinn and they bring in another Simms type to "compete" with him.

EFX gets fired and we are on to another rebuilding project...
Rinse and repeat.

Good post.

But you can already see "fans" alining themselves up to back certain players so they can proclaim it on draft day.

Let the Jockeying begin.

I remember some of the clamor about jay before he was dafted, those that guessed right were called gurus.

But sad to say they still pine for their boi.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Krugan]

Rinse and repeat.

Good post.

But you can already see "fans" alining themselves up to back certain players so they can proclaim it on draft day.

Let the Jockeying begin.

I remember some of the clamor about jay before he was dafted, those that guessed right were called gurus.

But sad to say they still pine for their boi.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Cant draft your nemisis again. Let it go.

They should be thinking QB this draft. We need at least 1.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Wow. Satire is wasted on you people.

[SOCALORADO.]

Just say NO to Barkley!!:welcome:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kx5e3GvgzpA/TMxapUz4G3I/AAAAAAAAAjk/yLKJpydQQ20/s1600/matt-barkley-7-2009-ncaa-football-san-jose-n3qyEN.jpg

[Nomad]

:lol:just giving you shit SOCAL! Funny comeback BTW!

[SOCALORADO.]

:lol:just giving you shit SOCAL! Funny comeback BTW!

I know. I am gonna get a TON of crap until this next draft is over.
Oh well.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I know. I am gonna get a TON of crap until this next draft is over.
Oh well.
Every time Barkley has a bad game, we'll post his stats. :D

[SOCALORADO.]

Every time Barkley has a bad game, we'll post his stats. :D

Barkley doesnt have bad games. This is all you ever see from him. LOL!
Championship!
http://thematadorsports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/barkley.jpg

[BigDaddyBronco]

Barkley doesnt have bad games. This is all you ever see from him. LOL!
Championship!
http://thematadorsports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/barkley.jpg
He is definitely prettier than Luck.

[Lonestar]

Cant draft your nemisis again. Let it go.

They should be thinking QB this draft. We need at least 1.
I think you meant miss right?

As for QB I think we are ok there when Orton moves on.

I also think he will light it up this year and tell the local fans that south beach is where he is making his new home. Might even get aprime time half hour tommake the announcement.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[RebelRocker]

I think Seattle is positioning themselves to get Barkley.


-He was Carroll's QB at USC
-Seattle's QB situation is crap
-They'll probably be out of position to get Luck, but in the area of getting Barkley.

[Cugel]

So if we plan on handing off 500 times a season why would we need an elite qb.

Oh I know another shiny toy.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Because mixed in with all those runs is a PLAY ACTION PASS! :coffee:

And to do that effectively, you have to operate from under center. The run draws the defenders up into the box, the QB fakes the hand-off and throws a timing pattern for a big gain.

But, to do that effectively you have to be able to execute the 3 and 5 step drop from under center. It won't work from the shot-gun; which is why Fox doesn't want to use the spread offense as his base offense.

Problem is that Tebow can ONLY operate effectively from the shot-gun. So, it's a very bad fit between Tebow's talents and what the Broncos want from their QB.

[NightTerror218]

Because mixed in with all those runs is a PLAY ACTION PASS! :coffee:

And to do that effectively, you have to operate from under center. The run draws the defenders up into the box, the QB fakes the hand-off and throws a timing pattern for a big gain.

But, to do that effectively you have to be able to execute the 3 and 5 step drop from under center. It won't work from the shot-gun; which is why Fox doesn't want to use the spread offense as his base offense.

Problem is that Tebow can ONLY operate effectively from the shot-gun. So, it's a very bad fit between Tebow's talents and what the Broncos want from their QB.


How do you know he can ONLY operate effectively from shot gun? Do you know what WILL happen? I bet that given a season of 500 rushes that Tebows drops will get better with all the reps of handing off and only working under center. He was working with Elway last night on his drops and throws for over an hour after practice.

[Lonestar]

How do you know he can ONLY operate effectively from shot gun? Do you know what WILL happen? I bet that given a season of 500 rushes that Tebows drops will get better with all the reps of handing off and only working under center. He was working with Elway last night on his drops and throws for over an hour after practice.

lots of arm chair GM/HCs here that KNOW what they know..

I'll let John and JohnE deal with it..

[SOCALORADO.]

Because mixed in with all those runs is a PLAY ACTION PASS! :coffee:

And to do that effectively, you have to operate from under center. The run draws the defenders up into the box, the QB fakes the hand-off and throws a timing pattern for a big gain.

But, to do that effectively you have to be able to execute the 3 and 5 step drop from under center. It won't work from the shot-gun; which is why Fox doesn't want to use the spread offense as his base offense.

Problem is that Tebow can ONLY operate effectively from the shot-gun. So, it's a very bad fit between Tebow's talents and what the Broncos want from their QB.

I gave TT a huge vote of confidence during the offseason to get the issue of playing from under center resolved. Clearly he didnt do it.
I dont know what he was doing, but he didnt fix this. Its a glaring issue, and one i just dont think he has the capacity to fix.
So off to H-back with Tebow, and DEN should draft a pro-style QB.

[SOCALORADO.]

lots of arm chair GM/HCs here that KNOW what they know..

I'll let John and JohnE deal with it..

John Engelberger!?!? Dude is a beast!

[Lonestar]

I gave TT a huge vote of confidence during the offseason to get the issue of playing from under center resolved. Clearly he didnt do it.
I dont know what he was doing, but he didnt fix this. Its a glaring issue, and one i just dont think he has the capacity to fix.
So off to H-back with Tebow, and DEN should draft a pro-style QB.

SO Tebow had to fix this in one offseason something that he has been doing for I'm guessing 10 years or more.

Not having "his" position coach or OC clearly hurt him more than anyone else..

And before someone mentions it he is entitled to a bit of time off making jockey commercials and signing books.. a workaholic makes for a dull boy and burns out sooner.

Only a few moron predicted he would start day one.. Most knowledgable ex players coaches said he would take a couple 3 years to fix his issues..

So far he has had 3 real games 3 practice week at the #1 spot and a littl over 2 weeks of Training camp working with the #2 unit..


Unless I'm wrong that is Just a tad less than three years..

[NightTerror218]

SO Tebow had to fix this in one offseason something that he has been doing for I'm guessing 10 years or more.

Not having "his" position coach or OC clearly hurt him more than anyone else..

And before someone mentions it he is entitled to a bit of time off making jockey commercials and signing books.. a workaholic makes for a dull boy and burns out sooner.

Only a few moron predicted he would start day one.. Most knowledgable ex players coaches said he would take a couple 3 years to fix his issues..

So far he has had 3 real games 3 practice week at the #1 spot and a littl over 2 weeks of Training camp working with the #2 unit..


Unless I'm wrong that is Just a tad less than three years..


I have to agree, but I dont think it would take 3 yrs, I would say 1 good solid year of working on it, but with no work from McD and no off season it is basically starting from the beginning of year 1.

[SOCALORADO.]

SO Tebow had to fix this in one offseason something that he has been doing for I'm guessing 10 years or more.

Not having "his" position coach or OC clearly hurt him more than anyone else..

And before someone mentions it he is entitled to a bit of time off making jockey commercials and signing books.. a workaholic makes for a dull boy and burns out sooner.

Only a few moron predicted he would start day one.. Most knowledgable ex players coaches said he would take a couple 3 years to fix his issues..

So far he has had 3 real games 3 practice week at the #1 spot and a littl over 2 weeks of Training camp working with the #2 unit..


Unless I'm wrong that is Just a tad less than three years..

Great excuses man! Keep em comin!

[NightTerror218]

Barkley doesnt have bad games. This is all you ever see from him. LOL!
Championship!
http://thematadorsports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/barkley.jpg

Hmmm i dont think he has won a championship. I am a PAC-10 (now 12) follower and USC has been nothin since Carrol left.

[SOCALORADO.]

Hmmm i dont think he has won a championship. I am a PAC-10 (now 12) follower and USC has been nothin since Carrol left.

BACK TO BACK ANGRY PANDA CHAMPION 2009-2010
http://iheartangrypanda.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/barkleypanda.jpg

[NightTerror218]

BACK TO BACK ANGRY PANDA CHAMPION 2009-2010
http://iheartangrypanda.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/barkleypanda.jpg

HAHAHA :lol::lol::lol:

But not in football.

[Lancane]

http://images.covers.com/editorial/2010/383x165/landry_jones102010.jpg
Don't forget that Jones is in the mix as well! ;)

[NightTerror218]

i think it will all depend on where we end up drafting, they could very well go 1 ,2, 3 depending on the team.

I could see Seachickens bombing for Barkley, SF bombing for Luck and Redskins drafting the next best in line.

[Lancane]

i think it will all depend on where we end up drafting, they could very well go 1 ,2, 3 depending on the team.

I could see Seachickens bombing for Barkley, SF bombing for Luck and Redskins drafting the next best in line.

Which still leaves Cousins, Lindley and Tannehill...;)

[NightTerror218]

Which still leaves Cousins, Lindley and Tannehill...;)

Are they first round talent?

[chazoe60]

I still don't get why so many people think we won't he drafting near the top? Vegas has us at 5.5 over/under win total. That is not a good number. I could easily see us picking in the top 5 maybe even top 3. The damage that Hirricane Josh did will not be undone in one truncated offseason. We have a very tough schedule and we will probably only be favored to win two or three times this season.

[NightTerror218]

I still don't get why so many people think we won't he drafting near the top? Vegas has us at 5.5 over/under win total. That is not a good number. I could easily see us picking in the top 5 maybe even top 3. The damage that Hirricane Josh did will not be undone in one truncated offseason. We have a very tough schedule and we will probably only be favored to win two or three times this season.

I dont see us in top 3, maybe top 5 def top 10. I think we can easily get 6 wins. Last year we were tied with 2-3 other teams at 4-12.

I think Seattle, Washington, SF, Miami, Carolina, AZ, Buffalo, Cinci and Raiders will be the bottom 9. Browns, Broncos, Tenn, Jax, Dallas and Minn finishing off the rest of the bottom half of league. All with losing records.

[Lancane]

Are they first round talent?

I believe that one if not two of them will break into the first round, sort of like Josh Freeman and will be mid to late first quarterbacks.

[chazoe60]

http://images.covers.com/editorial/2010/383x165/landry_jones102010.jpg
Don't forget that Jones is in the mix as well! ;)

I don't know Lan, that throwing motion looks pretty elongated. Let me look it up in Mel Kiper's Throwing Mechanics For Dummies By Dummies

[Lancane]

I don't know Lan, that throwing motion looks pretty elongated. Let me look it up in Mel Kiper's Throwing Mechanics For Dummies By Dummies

Actually, he's got a better release and a better arm then Barkley who I am also rather high on.

[RebelRocker]

I dont see us in top 3, maybe top 5 def top 10. I think we can easily get 6 wins. Last year we were tied with 2-3 other teams at 4-12.

I think Seattle, Washington, SF, Miami, Carolina, AZ, Buffalo, Cinci and Raiders will be the bottom 9. Browns, Broncos, Tenn, Jax, Dallas and Minn finishing off the rest of the bottom half of league. All with losing records.

Yeah. I'm predicting 6-10, MAYBE 7-9 and we're picking between 6-10.

As for the teams you mentioned.

Seattle-DEFINITELY going for Barkley

Washington-They'll take the best available guy when they pick.

SF- They traded up to get Kaepernick this year. Barring a 4-12 or worse finish, they're going to spent some time developing Kaepernick.

Miami-Same as Washington

Carolina- Cam Newton. Enough said.

AZ- Kolb. No way they get a QB next year.

Cinci-Unless Dalton pulls a John Beck, they're going to hang on to him for a while.

Oakland-Only Ole' Al knows what he's going to do. He seems content with Jason Campbell, but we'll see.


Cleveland-Colt McCoy is their guy.

Tennessee-Jake Locker.

Jax-Blaine Gabbert.

Dallas-They may be the wild card here. If Romo falters this year, they may move on and get a new guy.

Minnesota-Christian Ponder.

Buffalo-Hard to say with them. They will be better than most people think this year, so they may wait until the 2nd or 3rd to get a QB.


So out of all of the teams you mentioned, only 4 teams are most likely going to be into the QB market next year. It all just depends on how you finish.

[Canmore]

Yeah. I'm predicting 6-10, MAYBE 7-9 and we're picking between 6-10.

As for the teams you mentioned.

Seattle-DEFINITELY going to Barkley

Washington-They'll take the best available guy when they pick.

SF- They traded up to get Kaepernick this year. Barring a 4-12 or worse finish, they're going to spent some time developing Kaepernick.

Miami-Same as Washington

Carolina- Cam Newton. Enough said.

AZ- Kolb. No way they get a QB next year.

Cinci-Unless Dalton pulls a John Beck, they're going to hang on to him for a while.

Oakland-Only Ole' Al knows what he's going to do. He seems content with Jason Campbell, but we'll see.


Cleveland-Colt McCoy is their guy.

Tennessee-Jake Locker.

Jax-Blaine Gabbert.

Dallas-They may be the wild card here. If Romo falters this year, they may move on and get a new guy.

Minnesota-Christian Ponder.

Buffalo-Hard to say with them. They will be better than most people think this year, so they may wait until the 2nd or 3rd to get a QB.


So out of all of the teams you mentioned, only 4 teams are most likely going to be into the QB market next year. It all just depends on how you finish.

If the quarterback class turns out as strong as predicted there will be one available when we pick, assuming we are as bad as advertised. The question is, will Elway settle for not Luck. I think he will. Expect us to work out a ton of quarter backs.

[RebelRocker]

If the quarterback class turns out as strong as predicted there will be one available when we pick, assuming we are as bad as advertised. The question is, will Elway settle for not Luck. I think he will. Expect us to work out a ton of quarter backs.

I totally agree. I'm trying to take Luck out of our equation, at the moment. Luck isn't the "only guy" they would possibly want. It's just a matter of what kind of QB they want.


Do they want a guy that had a good college career and has a ton of upside, but may be a "work in progress"?

Or do they want an accomplished player, who is also proven to be pro-ready, but may not have the supposed "upside" that another guy may have?


I think EFX wants a pro-ready guy that they can plug in from day one and can develop on the job, ala Ryan, Flacco and Bradford.

With my prediction of us picking between 6-10, that certainly puts us out of range for 2(maybe even all 3) of the top QB's, so that leaves you with one top guy and a bunch of the "second tier guys".



With that said, I think this leaves us with these guys as the most realistic options, in this scenario.

Kirk Cousins
Ryan Lindley
and if one of the top 3 guys falls a bit in the top 10-15, then that guy is a strong possibility, as well.

[Canmore]

I totally agree. I'm trying to take Luck out of our equation, at the moment. Luck isn't the "only guy" they would possibly want. It's just a matter of what kind of QB they want.


Do they want a guy that had a good college career and has a ton of upside, but may be a "work in progress"?

Or do they want an accomplished player, who is also proven to be pro-ready, but may not have the supposed "upside" that another guy may have?


I think EFX wants a pro-ready guy that they can plug in from day one and can develop on the job, ala Ryan, Flacco and Bradford.

With my prediction of us picking between 6-10, that certainly puts us out of range for 2(maybe even all 3) of the top QB's, so that leaves you with one top guy and a bunch of the "second tier guys".



With that said, I think this leaves us with these guys as the most realistic options, in this scenario.

Kirk Cousins
Ryan Lindley
and if one of the top 3 guys falls a bit in the top 10-15, then that guy is a strong possibility, as well.

Pretty much how I see it playing out. I think I know what Elway wants, but what will he take. Who knows though. We may be worse than advertised and the suck for Luck sweepstakes would certainly have another player.

[RebelRocker]

Pretty much how I see it playing out. I think I know what Elway wants, but what will he take. Who knows though. We may be worse than advertised and the suck for Luck sweepstakes would certainly have another player.

Yeah, we'll have to see how it plays out. It's sure fun to speculate, though.

[Canmore]

Yeah, we'll have to see how it plays out. It's sure fun to speculate, though.

With the season we appear to be facing, specultion may be the only fun we have for a while. :laugh:

[RebelRocker]

With the season we appear to be facing, specultion may be the only fun we have for a while. :laugh:

Yeah, it appears that way LOL. I just finished listening to the Drive and Big Al(Alfred Williams) said that if it was a fair competition at QB and Tebow wasn't a first round pick, he wouldn't make the roster. I don't know if it's that severe, but it certainly appears like he's playing like a #3 QB.

That's the problem I have with the ardent Tebow supporters. Not one, but MANY analysts and reporter have come out since last season and have said that they don't think Tebow has a long term future in Denver. Now why would THAT many people, who are highly thought of in their given profession, risk their reputation by saying something negative about Tebow, if there wasn't some truth to it?


Again, I think this is going to come down to EFX wanting "their own guy" more than them wanting to develop Tebow. I think they like Tebow, but they realize he's a massive project at QB and it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep him around, long term.

[Canmore]

Yeah, it appears that way LOL. I just finished listening to the Drive and Big Al(Alfred Williams) said that if it was a fair competition at QB and Tebow wasn't a first round pick, he wouldn't make the roster. I don't know if it's that severe, but it certainly appears like he's playing like a #3 QB.

That's the problem I have with the ardent Tebow supporters. Not one, but MANY analysts and reporter have come out since last season and have said that they don't think Tebow has a long term future in Denver. Now why would THAT many people, who are highly thought of in their given profession, risk their reputation by saying something negative about Tebow, if there wasn't some truth to it?


Again, I think this is going to come down to EFX wanting "their own guy" more than them wanting to develop Tebow. I think they like Tebow, but they realize he's a massive project at QB and it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep him around, long term.

I like Tebow and I hope he sees the field this season. I think the only real evaluation of him will come with live bullets. I'd like to see what we have. If he is that bad, oh well. With that said, I'm ok with Orton. He is safe with the ball. He may not make enough plays for you but he doesn't turn it over. Who knows, given a running game and an improved defense ( I'm hoping) he may surprise a lot of people.

[chazoe60]

Yeah, it appears that way LOL. I just finished listening to the Drive and Big Al(Alfred Williams) said that if it was a fair competition at QB and Tebow wasn't a first round pick, he wouldn't make the roster. I don't know if it's that severe, but it certainly appears like he's playing like a #3 QB.

That's the problem I have with the ardent Tebow supporters. Not one, but MANY analysts and reporter have come out since last season and have said that they don't think Tebow has a long term future in Denver. Now why would THAT many people, who are highly thought of in their given profession, risk their reputation by saying something negative about Tebow, if there wasn't some truth to it?


Again, I think this is going to come down to EFX wanting "their own guy" more than them wanting to develop Tebow. I think they like Tebow, but they realize he's a massive project at QB and it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep him around, long term.

Don't listen to Big Al, he's borderline retarded. I don't know that I've ever heard a less intelligent human being on the radio. I loved him as a Bronco and he was a damn fine player but I really don't know how he keeps his radio job.

I heard Big Al last year say we drafted Richard Quinn because of all the success he had as a pass catching TE. He said Quinn was obviously the reason we let Scheffler go because he could fill the same role. He was being serious. BTW, Quinn caught 12 passes in his college career.

[Nomad]

Don't listen to Big Al, he's borderline retarded. I don't know that I've ever heard a less intelligent human being on the radio. I loved him as a Bronco and he was a damn fine player but I really don't know how he keeps his radio job.

I heard Big Al last year say we drafted Richard Quinn because of all the success he had as a pass catching TE. He said Quinn was obviously the reason we let Scheffler go because he could fill the same role. He was being serious. BTW, Quinn caught 12 passes in his college career.

We'll have the #1 defense in the AFC West and 10 wins this season.....he said it. The guy's full of himself though I like listening to Mark S.

[TXBRONC]

So if we plan on handing off 500 times a season why would we need an elite qb.

Oh I know another shiny toy.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums


Because mixed in with all those runs is a PLAY ACTION PASS! :coffee:

And to do that effectively, you have to operate from under center. The run draws the defenders up into the box, the QB fakes the hand-off and throws a timing pattern for a big gain.

But, to do that effectively you have to be able to execute the 3 and 5 step drop from under center. It won't work from the shot-gun; which is why Fox doesn't want to use the spread offense as his base offense.

Problem is that Tebow can ONLY operate effectively from the shot-gun. So, it's a very bad fit between Tebow's talents and what the Broncos want from their QB.

Well you have to run ball 500 times that means you're trying to hide your quarterback. So if you have a lot of success.

Cugel I agree Tebow isn't effective from under center but there is nothing that says he can't learn.

[RebelRocker]

Don't listen to Big Al, he's borderline retarded. I don't know that I've ever heard a less intelligent human being on the radio. I loved him as a Bronco and he was a damn fine player but I really don't know how he keeps his radio job.

I heard Big Al last year say we drafted Richard Quinn because of all the success he had as a pass catching TE. He said Quinn was obviously the reason we let Scheffler go because he could fill the same role. He was being serious. BTW, Quinn caught 12 passes in his college career.

That's true. To be honest, I prefer listening to the ticket instead of anything on the fan..

The fan just seems like the "sexy, BIG money" type radio station that reports tabloid journalism where the Ticket is the REAL news source and their radio guys are actually knowledgable.

[NightTerror218]

Yeah. I'm predicting 6-10, MAYBE 7-9 and we're picking between 6-10.

As for the teams you mentioned.

Seattle-DEFINITELY going for Barkley

Washington-They'll take the best available guy when they pick.

SF- They traded up to get Kaepernick this year. Barring a 4-12 or worse finish, they're going to spent some time developing Kaepernick.

Miami-Same as Washington

Carolina- Cam Newton. Enough said.

AZ- Kolb. No way they get a QB next year.

Cinci-Unless Dalton pulls a John Beck, they're going to hang on to him for a while.

Oakland-Only Ole' Al knows what he's going to do. He seems content with Jason Campbell, but we'll see.


Cleveland-Colt McCoy is their guy.

Tennessee-Jake Locker.

Jax-Blaine Gabbert.

Dallas-They may be the wild card here. If Romo falters this year, they may move on and get a new guy.

Minnesota-Christian Ponder.

Buffalo-Hard to say with them. They will be better than most people think this year, so they may wait until the 2nd or 3rd to get a QB.


So out of all of the teams you mentioned, only 4 teams are most likely going to be into the QB market next year. It all just depends on how you finish.

IF Kolb pulls and Leinhart they might draft, so Washington, Seattle, Buffalo, Dallas, Oakland, and Miami and then US. That could be 8 teams in the run for QBs. I only see EFX drafting the top QBs in the draft or else they will go for the best player available like they did this year.

[Lancane]

NDS (National Draft Service) Just released their preseason power ranking 2012 NFL Mock Draft (Top 16 Picks)

I posted it in the Draft Section...they have us taking Barkley with the sixth overall pick.

[Nomad]

NDS (National Draft Service) Just released their preseason power ranking 2012 NFL Mock Draft (Top 16 Picks)

I posted it in the Draft Section...they have us taking Barkley with the sixth overall pick.

Are you sure SOCAL didn't make up that draft!!:lol:

[Lancane]

Are you sure SOCAL didn't make up that draft!!:lol:

Hahaha... No, not unless he somehow works for NDS suddenly! :lol:

They have Shanahan and the Skins taking Landry and Buffalo getting Luck.

[NightTerror218]

Hahaha... No, not unless he somehow works for NDS suddenly! :lol:

They have Shanahan and the Skins taking Landry and Buffalo getting Luck.


I would like to see what Tebow has....if not that I am fine with Barkley. If Tebow shows some promise...I want Worthy. I think Seattle might draft higher then us and then Barkley would be theirs.....I have no doubt Pete would want a USC boy.

[Lancane]

I would like to see what Tebow has....if not that I am fine with Barkley. If Tebow shows some promise...I want Worthy. I think Seattle might draft higher then us and then Barkley would be theirs.....I have no doubt Pete would want a USC boy.

NDS has Worthy going to San Francisco after our pick, they also have Lindley working his value to become a Top 10 Pick. They have Seattle taking Cousins with a mid-first round pick.

[SOCALORADO.]

NDS has Worthy going to San Francisco after our pick, they also have Lindley working his value to become a Top 10 Pick. They have Seattle taking Cousins with a mid-first round pick.

When i made this draft, i had Cousins ahead of Lindley, but the Socal thing made me change it! LOL!

[Lancane]

When i made this draft, i had Cousins ahead of Lindley, but the Socal thing made me change it! LOL!

One thing I do like is that if NDS is correct, even if Denver has a higher top ten pick we're still capable of drafting a franchise quarterback in Lindley.

[SOCALORADO.]

NDS (National Draft Service) Just released their preseason power ranking 2012 NFL Mock Draft (Top 16 Picks)

I posted it in the Draft Section...they have us taking Barkley with the sixth overall pick.

DEN gets Barkley they are set. I like Worthy too, but i like TT at H-back, with Barkley running the show.
This will be a really solid QB class, DEN cant mess this up.
Those top 3 QBs all have cannons, golden arms, and they all run pro-style offenses and are all very smart. They will be immediate starters.
And Cousins and Landry are really good too.
Really good QB class comin out.

[NightTerror218]

NDS has Worthy going to San Francisco after our pick, they also have Lindley working his value to become a Top 10 Pick. They have Seattle taking Cousins with a mid-first round pick.

I think 3-4 QBs go in top 10 maybe even the ones we want. Every draft Qbs are high and then drop off as draft gets closer. Will be interested to see how they do through the season. Hopefully none are hurt but that happens to every year. But I want to know what we have in Tebow. He has not played enough to be really evaluated. Worthy would be a great DL pick up.

[Lancane]

DEN gets Barkley they are set. I like Worthy too, but i like TT at H-back, with Barkley running the show.
This will be a really solid QB class, DEN cant mess this up.
Those top 3 QBs all have cannons, golden arms, and they all run pro-style offenses and are all very smart. They will be immediate starters.
And Cousins and Landry are really good too.
Really good QB class comin out.

Worthy is the only defensive tackle at this time worth a top fifteen pick, but there is a pretty solid list behind him that will be available in the latter part of the first and into the second round: Crick, Randall, Steinkhuler, Powell, Reyes, Thompson and Short.

[NightTerror218]

DEN gets Barkley they are set. I like Worthy too, but i like TT at H-back, with Barkley running the show.
This will be a really solid QB class, DEN cant mess this up.
Those top 3 QBs all have cannons, golden arms, and they all run pro-style offenses and are all very smart. They will be immediate starters.
And Cousins and Landry are really good too.
Really good QB class comin out.

The messed up 2011 DT class....:tsk:

[Lancane]

I think 3-4 QBs go in top 10 maybe even the ones we want. Every draft Qbs are high and then drop off as draft gets closer. Will be interested to see how they do through the season. Hopefully none are hurt but that happens to every year. But I want to know what we have in Tebow. He has not played enough to be really evaluated. Worthy would be a great DL pick up.

I understand what you're saying, but come the end of the season we'll only have Tebow and Webber under contract. Denver really has to draft a quarterback, they can ill afford to put all their oranges in one fruit basket. They could wait till the second or third round, but there is a severe drop in talent once it gets too far down, I don't see them risking it. I also don't believe they're sold on Tebow, unless Orton is hurt or replaced outright and Tebow lights it up, then I could see them forgo drafting a quarterback and sign a veteran backup.

[SOCALORADO.]

One thing I do like is that if NDS is correct, even if Denver has a higher top ten pick we're still capable of drafting a franchise quarterback in Lindley.

I have watched all of his games, and hes a really good QB. Very impressive.
He lost a big weapon in the draft, but he should be fine.

[RebelRocker]

IF Kolb pulls and Leinhart they might draft, so Washington, Seattle, Buffalo, Dallas, Oakland, and Miami and then US. That could be 8 teams in the run for QBs. I only see EFX drafting the top QBs in the draft or else they will go for the best player available like they did this year.

There's NO way AZ gives up on Kolb after a year. They gave the dude 63 MILLION to be "their guy". They're going to give him time.

As for the other teams you mentioned, it depends on where they fall in the draft. We could very well be in the middle of that group.

[NightTerror218]

I understand what you're saying, but come the end of the season we'll only have Tebow and Webber under contract. Denver really has to draft a quarterback, they can ill afford to put all their oranges in one fruit basket. They could wait till the second or third round, but there is a severe drop in talent once it gets too far down, I don't see them risking it. I also don't believe they're sold on Tebow, unless Orton is hurt or replaced outright and Tebow lights it up, then I could see them forgo drafting a quarterback and sign a veteran backup.

I can see Quinn being resigned as backup. Weber will be gone soon, but by game 1. I think if the Broncos really want to know what they have on the roster they need to play Tebow, since there is minimal tape on him. Quinn needs some time too since they like 1st rounders and giving them a new scene to see if they blossom. Orton will search for that starter paycheck elsewhere after season.

[NightTerror218]

There's NO way AZ gives up on Kolb after a year. They gave the dude 63 MILLION to be "their guy". They're going to give him time.

As for the other teams you mentioned, it depends on where they fall in the draft. We could very well be in the middle of that group.

That is true. But like I said they were tied up to Leinart in AZ and they picked up Warner to back him up. Leinart sucked so Warner took over. Kolb has always been a backup so they need to see how he does as a full time starter. The had a small starting stint in Philly but got injured then lost starting position.

[Stargazer]

That is true. But like I said they were tied up to Leinart in AZ and they picked up Warner to back him up. Leinart sucked so Warner took over. Kolb has always been a backup so they need to see how he does as a full time starter. The had a small starting stint in Philly but got injured then lost starting position.

Leinart had multiple chances, and when AZ grabbed a new head coach Leinart was done.

[NightTerror218]

Leinart had multiple chances, and when AZ grabbed a new head coach Leinart was done.

He still sucks...either way...Kolb gets his chance now.

[Stargazer]

..they have us taking Barkley with the sixth overall pick.

That would be grrrrrrrrrrrr8!

[Stargazer]

He still sucks...either way...Kolb gets his chance now.

Yes, Kolb gets his chance. And it will be more than 1 year. AZ isn't taking a QB high next year.

[RebelRocker]

That is true. But like I said they were tied up to Leinart in AZ and they picked up Warner to back him up. Leinart sucked so Warner took over. Kolb has always been a backup so they need to see how he does as a full time starter. The had a small starting stint in Philly but got injured then lost starting position.

That's true. If they go after a QB, it won't be until the mid to late rounds. They gave Kolb all of that money, now they have to see if he's "the guy". AZ is in the same situation KC was in a few years ago.

They gave a ton of money to a guy that isn't proven, but has "promise". They'll give him a few years to see what they have, but I think they'll add depth at the position in the draft at some point, just in case.

[SOCALORADO.]

That's true. If they go after a QB, it won't be until the mid to late rounds. They gave Kolb all of that money, now they have to see if he's "the guy". AZ is in the same situation KC was in a few years ago.

They gave a ton of money to a guy that isn't proven, but has "promise". They'll give him a few years to see what they have, but I think they'll add depth at the position in the draft at some point, just in case.

I see Carson Palmer going to a SEA or ARI next year to push whoever is already there. Just sayin. I dont see him accepting BUF or some east coast spot at this point in his career.

[TXBRONC]

I see Carson Palmer going to a SEA or ARI next year to push whoever is already there. Just sayin. I dont see him accepting BUF or some east coast spot at this point in his career.

Palmer wont be going anywhere unless he's released from his contract or traded and Brown has already said that he wont trade him.

[Canmore]

Palmer wont be going anywhere unless he's released from his contract or traded and Brown has already said that he wont trade him.

He is retired, at least until further notice.

[TXBRONC]

He is retired, at least until further notice.

True and if he decided to come of retirement the Bengals would still have contractual rights to him.

[RebelRocker]

True and if he decided to come of retirement the Bengals would still have contractual rights to him.

As a man, I really respect what Mike Brown is doing here. He's taking the high road and he wants his players to honor what they agree to.

But as a business man, he's completely incompetent of running a good organization. You can't do the "moral code" in the NFL. If you can get a good offer for Palmer(or any player, for that matter), you have to move on.



I respect him, as a man, but I think he's awful as a default owner/GM.

[chazoe60]

I was thinking about this today.

Did John Elway hire Dan Reeves (Fox) and does he desperately hope to draft John Elway (Luck)?

I just think it's sort of weird how much Fox's idea of offense reminds me of Reeves. BTW, I am a huge Reeves fan he's actually a family friend so this is not in any way an insult to Fox as some may think. I know Reeves has mixed reviews from a lot of Bronco fans but not from me. He did take the Falcons to the SB after all.

[Lancane]

I was thinking about this today.

Did John Elway hire Dan Reeves (Fox) and does he desperately hope to draft John Elway (Luck)?

I just think it's sort of weird how much Fox's idea of offense reminds me of Reeves. BTW, I am a huge Reeves fan he's actually a family friend so this is not in any way an insult to Fox as some may think. I know Reeves has mixed reviews from a lot of Bronco fans but not from me. He did take the Falcons to the SB after all.

It's sort of uncanny how alike their philosophies are (Reeves & Fox) but we have to remember that Elway had tremendous success under Reeves and his variant Run & Gun offensive scheme. The biggest difference is that Reeves was a student of Tom Landry's offensive scheme which he created to counter his own defense which he tweaked to face Lombardi's offense whereas Fox is well known for his defense but running a very comparable conservative offense to Reeves' own. It could be that because Elway had spent most of his career in a similar offense was attracted to the idea of bringing an offense back that was very comparable in base terms.

[MOtorboat]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to blow a gasket if they don't draft the quarterback I pre-chose as the quarterback I wanted the Broncos to draft.

[Lancane]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to blow a gasket if they don't draft the quarterback I pre-chose as the quarterback I wanted the Broncos to draft.

That's some healthy smartassiserism right there! :lol:

[Jsteve01]

Mo is a very serious guy...

[Lancane]

Mo is a very serious guy...

Yes...this I know! ;)

[RebelRocker]

It's sort of uncanny how alike their philosophies are (Reeves & Fox) but we have to remember that Elway had tremendous success under Reeves and his variant Run & Gun offensive scheme. The biggest difference is that Reeves was a student of Tom Landry's offensive scheme which he created to counter his own defense which he tweaked to face Lombardi's offense whereas Fox is well known for his defense but running a very comparable conservative offense to Reeves' own. It could be that because Elway had spent most of his career in a similar offense was attracted to the idea of bringing an offense back that was very comparable in base terms.

Yeah, but unlike Reeves, Fox will put talented players around his QB.


Just sayin...:beer:

[Lancane]

Yeah, but unlike Reeves, Fox will put talented players around his QB.


Just sayin...:beer:

Sorry, I have to disagree...for one, Fox has very little control roster additions beyond his opinion. I've been told that his hands were tied by the front office in Carolina, but I've also heard that he had too much control, in which case I am just as glad that we have people above him who make those decisions. Secondly, Reeves is one of the best coaches in NFL history, he continually produced champion caliber football teams, Fox's record in no way even reflects the same level of production as Reeves.

[Canmore]

Sorry, I have to disagree...for one, Fox has very little control roster additions beyond his opinion. I've been told that his hands were tied by the front office in Carolina, but I've also heard that he had too much control, in which case I am just as glad that we have people above him who make those decisions. Secondly, Reeves is one of the best coaches in NFL history, he continually produced champion caliber football teams, Fox's record in no way even reflects the same level of production as Reeves.

I'm a Reeves fan. I've told a number of people when discussing the Broncos that with the talent on the Broncos in the mid 80's or lack there of, that Denver doesn't go to three Super Bowls without Elway and Reeves. He may have handcuffed Elway but his three yards and a cloud of dust offenses and bend but dont break defenses with Elway to bale them out in the fourth quarter worked.

We didn't have a lot of Pro-Bowl talent much less Hall of Fame talent on those teams. I mean who did we have? I'm going over the roster and drawing a blank (feel free to chime in, I'm sure someone will). Dennis Smith played in six Pro-Bowls and Sammy Winder Played in two. Karl Mecklenburg played in six also. Atwater was a rookie in 1989. I know there were others but you get my drift. How Many Hall of Famers? None. Reeves went to a Super Bowl without Elway. We all remember John's going away party, but still Reeves got back to the dance. If Fox has anywhere near the success Dan Reeves had, I will be a happy camper no matter how it looks.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Reeves taking Tommy Maddox in the first round instead of Carl Pickens...

that right there illustrated in one year how Reeves failed
to put offensive talent around John.

Dan seldom drafted offensive guys early if IIRC.

I cant count how many times I'd sit through a Reeves called game...
with my Father in Law...
and Reeves play calling was SOOO predictable.

My father -in -law would bitch up a storm as he'd predict every play..

"Winder to the left. Winder to the Right. Throw for no gain. Punt"

God.. I heard that sentance over and over and over.

Heck,, my Grandma used to predict Reeves playcalling.

To this day... when a running back goes for no gain...
my Dad gripes and exclaims...

"Quit playing Dan Reeves style football."


Reeves got rid of Shanahan because Mike and John
were scripting plays together behind Dan's back...

Sure Dan was a great coach... but he got stale here...
lacked creativity in the end.

[Lancane]

I'm a Reeves fan. I've told a number of people when discussing the Broncos that with the talent on the Broncos in the mid 80's or lack there of, that Denver doesn't go to three Super Bowls without Elway and Reeves. He may have handcuffed Elway but his three yards and a cloud of dust offenses and bend but dont break defenses with Elway to bale them out in the fourth quarter worked.

We didn't have a lot of Pro-Bowl talent much less Hall of Fame talent on those teams. I mean who did we have? I'm going over the roster and drawing a blank (feel free to chime in, I'm sure someone will). Dennis Smith played in six Pro-Bowls and Sammy Winder Played in two. Karl Mecklenburg played in six also. Atwater was a rookie in 1989. I know there were others but you get my drift. How Many Hall of Famers? None. Reeves went to a Super Bowl without Elway. We all remember John's going away party, but still Reeves got back to the dance. If Fox has anywhere near the success Dan Reeves had, I will be a happy camper no matter how it looks.

Actually people tend to forget the talent that Reeves' Broncos had Louis Wright, Dennis Smith, Rich Karlis, Sammy Winder, Rubin Carter, Steve Watson, Rulon Jones, Tom Jackson, Keith Bishop, Karl Mecklenberg, Vance Johnson, Simon Fletcher, Greg Kragen, Mike Horan, Bobby Humphrey, John Elway, Steve Atwater, Tyrone Braxton, Michael Brooks, Gaston Green, Shannon Sharpe, Doug Widell and David Treadwell.

The Broncos while being so solid for so long were often ill favored by the press compared to the more popular teams of the era. We've had several people that should have gone to the Pro-Bowl who did not because of favoritism more then by lack of play.

[RebelRocker]

I'm a Reeves fan. I've told a number of people when discussing the Broncos that with the talent on the Broncos in the mid 80's or lack there of, that Denver doesn't go to three Super Bowls without Elway and Reeves. He may have handcuffed Elway but his three yards and a cloud of dust offenses and bend but dont break defenses with Elway to bale them out in the fourth quarter worked.

We didn't have a lot of Pro-Bowl talent much less Hall of Fame talent on those teams. I mean who did we have? I'm going over the roster and drawing a blank (feel free to chime in, I'm sure someone will). Dennis Smith played in six Pro-Bowls and Sammy Winder Played in two. Karl Mecklenburg played in six also. Atwater was a rookie in 1989. I know there were others but you get my drift. How Many Hall of Famers? None. Reeves went to a Super Bowl without Elway. We all remember John's going away party, but still Reeves got back to the dance. If Fox has anywhere near the success Dan Reeves had, I will be a happy camper no matter how it looks.


That's why I made the comparison with Reeves/Fox. Reeves did a heck of a lot with such little talent, but it was also his fault he didn't have a lot of talent. He could have done so much more with the team, especially on offense.

[PAINTERDAVE]

That's why I made the comparison with Reeves/Fox. Reeves did a heck of a lot with such little talent, but it was also his fault he didn't have a lot of talent. He could have done so much more with the team, especially on offense.

That is it in a nutshell... Reeves very often drafted DEF early
and then snagged a few guys in the late rounds for offense.

Bobby Humphrey he took early...

but most years he took defense first.

[Canmore]

Actually people tend to forget the talent that Reeves' Broncos had Louis Wright, Dennis Smith, Rich Karlis, Sammy Winder, Rubin Carter, Steve Watson, Rulon Jones, Tom Jackson, Keith Bishop, Karl Mecklenberg, Vance Johnson, Simon Fletcher, Greg Kragen, Mike Horan, Bobby Humphrey, John Elway, Steve Atwater, Tyrone Braxton, Michael Brooks, Gaston Green, Shannon Sharpe, Doug Widell and David Treadwell.

The Broncos while being so solid for so long were often ill favored by the press compared to the more popular teams of the era. We've had several people that should have gone to the Pro-Bowl who did not because of favoritism more then by lack of play.

Very good point. We were often overlooked in the Pro-Bowl balloting just as we are in the Hall of Fame (shame) balloting (Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater, Terrell Davis, others. Even Floyd Little had to go through the seniors committee). We had talent. You don't go to three Super Bowls without it, but we did not have elite talent. Should we have more Pro-Bowls? I think so, but we didn't. (I forgot Louis Wright) Sharpe didn't show up until 1990. That's my point. We were not loaded until 97-98. We went to three Super Bowls we had no buisness being in on the strength of John Elway and the football smarts of Dan Reeves who I think got as much out of the talent he had as anyone could have.

[Canmore]

That's why I made the comparison with Reeves/Fox. Reeves did a heck of a lot with such little talent, but it was also his fault he didn't have a lot of talent. He could have done so much more with the team, especially on offense.

Yes Reeves had control of player aquisition, and maybe someone else would have done a better job, but with the hand dealt, I think Reeves did a pretty good job. They went to three Super Bowls.

[Canmore]

That is it in a nutshell... Reeves very often drafted DEF early
and then snagged a few guys in the late rounds for offense.

Bobby Humphrey he took early...

but most years he took defense first.

Most people forget that Reeves took Humphries in the first round of the supplemental draft, but yes, Dan didn't do John many favors. Then again, it worked.

[BroncoStud]

Most people forget that Reeves took Humphries in the first round of the supplemental draft, but yes, Dan didn't do John many favors. Then again, it worked.

No it didn't, we got our asses stomped in every Super Bowl because we lacked the speed, system, and talent to match up with top defenses or stop top offenses.

Elway won Super Bowls without Reeves, Reeves has been to 1 Super Bowl without Elway, in which Elway kicked his ass.

Reeves held Denver back as much as he helped them get to Super Bowls. Without Elway Dan Reeves might not have lasted more than 3 or 4 seasons, he's 12 games UNDER .500 outside of Denver for his career. John made Dan.

[Canmore]

No it didn't, we got our asses stomped in every Super Bowl because we lacked the speed, system, and talent to match up with top defenses or stop top offenses.

Elway won Super Bowls without Reeves, Reeves has been to 1 Super Bowl without Elway, in which Elway kicked his ass.

Reeves held Denver back as much as he helped them get to Super Bowls. Without Elway Dan Reeves might not have lasted more than 3 or 4 seasons, he's 12 games UNDER .500 outside of Denver for his career. John made Dan.

In my opinion we got slaughtered because we didn't have the horses at the line of scrimmage to match up. Is that Dan Reeves fault? Ultimately yes. It still doesn't take away mutch from the accomplishment of getting there three times in four years and just missing out on four in five.

Most Super Bowl coaches didn't fair to well without their Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Dan Reeves getting back to the dance is one of the exceptions.

[Lancane]

We were not loaded until 97-98. We went to three Super Bowls we had no buisness being in on the strength of John Elway and the football smarts of Dan Reeves who I think got as much out of the talent he had as anyone could have.

I wouldn't say that Can, for example the 1986 Broncos had not only Elway, but Sammy Winder, Gerald Willhite (who if you remember had nearly 900 yards receiving as a fullback), Mark Jackson, Vance Johnson, Karl Mecklenberg, Tom Jackson, Greg Kragen, Simon Fletcher, Dennis Smith, Mike Harden, Louis Wright, Mike Horan, Dave Studdard, Keith Bishop, Steve Foley and Steve Watson.

Granted we lacked Atwater, Sharpe and Braxton...but that team was loaded with talented individuals that didn't get credited as much for wins as Elway.

[TXBRONC]

Sorry, I have to disagree...for one, Fox has very little control roster additions beyond his opinion. I've been told that his hands were tied by the front office in Carolina, but I've also heard that he had too much control, in which case I am just as glad that we have people above him who make those decisions. Secondly, Reeves is one of the best coaches in NFL history, he continually produced champion caliber football teams, Fox's record in no way even reflects the same level of production as Reeves.

I think Fox will get pretty much the personnel asks for. However Elway has final say and so if he says we're going to draft a quarterback that's what will happen. As of right now it looks like Elway, Fox, and Xanders are all on the same page of finding one.

[BroncoStud]

I wouldn't say that Can, for example the 1986 Broncos had not only Elway, but Sammy Winder, Gerald Willhite (who if you remember had nearly 900 yards receiving as a fullback), Mark Jackson, Vance Johnson, Karl Mecklenberg, Tom Jackson, Greg Kragen, Simon Fletcher, Dennis Smith, Mike Harden, Louis Wright, Mike Horan, Dave Studdard, Keith Bishop, Steve Foley and Steve Watson.

Granted we lacked Atwater, Sharpe and Braxton...but that team was loaded with talented individuals that didn't get credited as much for wins as Elway.

What did the "3 Amigos" do outside of Denver? Nothing. What did Sammy Winder do outside of Denver? Nothing. Plug in most of those names save a few, and they did nothing outside of Denver.

Elway made that team, without him they were .500 or worse, with him they were able to reach the Super Bowl.

[SOCALORADO.]

What did the "3 Amigos" do outside of Denver? Nothing. What did Sammy Winder do outside of Denver? Nothing. Plug in most of those names save a few, and they did nothing outside of Denver.

Elway made that team, without him they were .500 or worse, with him they were able to reach the Super Bowl.

"So far in Elway’s career, his offensive linemen and wide receivers have been voted to the Pro Bowl a combined seven times. In Dan Marino’s 15 seasons, Miami Dolphins offensive linemen and wide receivers have been selected to the Pro Bowl 30 times. … Though usually surrounded by a human rummage sale, Elway has won more games as a starter than any other quarterback in NFL history at the time of his retirement. (138). It’s the equivalent of carving Mount Rushmore with a spoon or composing Beethoven’s Ninth on a kazoo.
But Elway’s career has been about more than just winning. It has been about escaping defeat a half page from the end of the novel, leaping over pits of fire with the microdot hidden in his cigarette lighter. On first down Elway was ‘pretty average,’ his Stanford coach Paul Wiggin once said. But when the elementary school kids are being held hostage and the detonator reads 00:03, who would you rather have clipping the wires than Elway? He may be the only quarterback in history who could stand on his own two-yard line, trailing by five with less than two minutes to play, no timeouts left, windchill –5, and cause the opposing coach to mutter, ‘We’re in trouble.’”
--Rick Reilly, Sports Illustrated, qtd. in Austin Murphy’s The Super Bowl: Sports Greatest Championship

[Lancane]

What did the "3 Amigos" do outside of Denver? Nothing. What did Sammy Winder do outside of Denver? Nothing. Plug in most of those names save a few, and they did nothing outside of Denver.

Elway made that team, without him they were .500 or worse, with him they were able to reach the Super Bowl.

How are they going to do something outside of Denver when they spent their whole careers with the Broncos? Sammy Winder had a nine year career and went to two Pro Bowls; Gerald Willhite was one of the best receiving fullbacks in the annals of the NFL, he was continually ripped-off when it came to being named to the Pro Bowl and he was in the league for seven seasons. Vance Johnson spent his ten seasons in Denver and though not a premier receiver was better then most we've seen since give the exception of McCaffrey, Smith and Marshall. Mark Johnson is still to this day is the most productive slot receiver we've had and his numbers rival most other slots of the modern era in terms of production year in and year out and he too was in Denver for seven or so seasons, and spent one with New York. Steve Sewell wasn't the greatest, but he did spend his whole career in Denver and contributed to more wins then we've had in the past two decades. And Steve Watson had a pretty solid career in his nine years in Denver and during that time was without a doubt our best receiver most seasons.

So your statement really is onerous because it's misleading, we have no idea how productive they would have been elsewhere...but they were quite productive here and that's what matters. I could ask the same of you in regards to Rod Smith, Karl Mecklenberg, Tom Jackson, Terrell Davis and several others who never saw the field in another team's jersey, but to do that would to be mar their accomplishments and that's what you do to those who played with Elway during Reeve's tenure.

[Canmore]

I wouldn't say that Can, for example the 1986 Broncos had not only Elway, but Sammy Winder, Gerald Willhite (who if you remember had nearly 900 yards receiving as a fullback), Mark Jackson, Vance Johnson, Karl Mecklenberg, Tom Jackson, Greg Kragen, Simon Fletcher, Dennis Smith, Mike Harden, Louis Wright, Mike Horan, Dave Studdard, Keith Bishop, Steve Foley and Steve Watson.

Granted we lacked Atwater, Sharpe and Braxton...but that team was loaded with talented individuals that didn't get credited as much for wins as Elway.

Hadn't thought of Gerald Willhite in years. :D We certainly had talent. We went to three Super Bowls with that core group, but we didn't have enough talent to get over the hump. If we had just a little more elite/Hall of Fame/Pro-Bowl types maybe things would have come out differently.

With the group we had I feel they achieved there peak of what they were going to do and I think some of that credit should go to Dan Reeves.

[RebelRocker]

Hadn't thought of Gerald Willhite in years. :D We certainly had talent. We went to three Super Bowls with that core group, but we didn't have enough talent to get over the hump. If we had just a little more elite/Hall of Fame/Pro-Bowl maybe things would have come out differently.

With the group we had I feel they achieved there peak of what they were going to do and I think some of that credit should go to Dan Reeves.

Can we just go back to speculating who we may and may not draft next year??!?!?;)


:beer:

[Lancane]

Can we just go back to speculating who we may and may not draft next year??!?!?;)


:beer:

Sir, yes sir...would you like a foot in your ass sir? :lol:

Now back to your regular scheduled program...

Rnd 1. Matt Barkley, Quarterback, USC
Rnd 2. Devon Still, Defensive Tackle, Penn State
Rnd 3. Kendall Reyes, Defensive Tackle, Connecticut
Rnd 4. Donnie Fletcher, Defensive Back, Boston College
Rnd 5. Davin Meggett, Running Back, Maryland
Rnd 6. Tashaun Gipson, Cornerback, Wyoming
Rnd 7. Abel Perez, Kicker, San Diego State

Sounds good to me...

[chazoe60]

Sir, yes sir...would you like a foot in your ass sir? :lol:

Now back to your regular scheduled program...

Rnd 1. Matt Barkley, Quarterback, USC
Rnd 2. Devon Still, Defensive Tackle, Penn State
Rnd 3. Kendall Reyes, Defensive Tackle, Connecticut
Rnd 4. Donnie Fletcher, Defensive Back, Boston College
Rnd 5. Davin Meggett, Running Back, Maryland
Rnd 6. Tashaun Gipson, Cornerback, Wyoming
Rnd 7. Abel Perez, Kicker, San Diego State

Sounds good to me...

Is Davin Meggett related to lil' ol' Dave Meggett?

[RebelRocker]

Sir, yes sir...would you like a foot in your ass sir? :lol:

Now back to your regular scheduled program...

Rnd 1. Matt Barkley, Quarterback, USC
Rnd 2. Devon Still, Defensive Tackle, Penn State
Rnd 3. Kendall Reyes, Defensive Tackle, Connecticut
Rnd 4. Donnie Fletcher, Defensive Back, Boston College
Rnd 5. Davin Meggett, Running Back, Maryland
Rnd 6. Tashaun Gipson, Cornerback, Wyoming
Rnd 7. Abel Perez, Kicker, San Diego State

Sounds good to me...

Haha. You should ask Rex Ryan that. You know he'd like a foot up in him;)

As for your mock, looks damn good to me. Let's make it happen.

[Lancane]

Is Davin Meggett related to lil' ol' Dave Meggett?

Yup that would be his daddy! :D

[SOCALORADO.]

Sir, yes sir...would you like a foot in your ass sir? :lol:

Now back to your regular scheduled program...

Rnd 1. Matt Barkley, Quarterback, USC
Rnd 2. Devon Still, Defensive Tackle, Penn State
Rnd 3. Kendall Reyes, Defensive Tackle, Connecticut
Rnd 4. Donnie Fletcher, Defensive Back, Boston College
Rnd 5. Davin Meggett, Running Back, Maryland
Rnd 6. Tashaun Gipson, Cornerback, Wyoming
Rnd 7. Abel Perez, Kicker, San Diego State

Sounds good to me...

A+
Even got a full time RB!

[Npba900]

Hadn't thought of Gerald Willhite in years. :D We certainly had talent. We went to three Super Bowls with that core group, but we didn't have enough talent to get over the hump. If we had just a little more elite/Hall of Fame/Pro-Bowl types maybe things would have come out differently.

With the group we had I feel they achieved there peak of what they were going to do and I think some of that credit should go to Dan Reeves.

Lets not forget Simon Fletcher! I remember he had around 5 consecutive years of 12-16 sacks as a linebacker and did not make the pro bowl.

[Canmore]

Lets not forget Simon Fletcher! I remember he had around 5 consecutive years of 12-16 sacks as a linebacker and did not make the pro bowl.

Good call. While we are not talking about quarterbacks in 2012, I'll respond.

Fletcher played for the Denver Broncos for his entire NFL career from 1985-1995. In his 11 year career he recorded a Denver Broncos record 97.5 sacks, two interceptions, and 10 fumble recoveries. He shares the NFL record (DeMarcus Ware) for most consecutive games with a sack with 10.

He led the league in sacks one of those years with 14 I believe and still didn't play in a Pro-Bowl. :tsk:

[Npba900]

I wouldn't say that Can, for example the 1986 Broncos had not only Elway, but Sammy Winder, Gerald Willhite (who if you remember had nearly 900 yards receiving as a fullback), Mark Jackson, Vance Johnson, Karl Mecklenberg, Tom Jackson, Greg Kragen, Simon Fletcher, Dennis Smith, Mike Harden, Louis Wright, Mike Horan, Dave Studdard, Keith Bishop, Steve Foley and Steve Watson.

Granted we lacked Atwater, Sharpe and Braxton...but that team was loaded with talented individuals that didn't get credited as much for wins as Elway.

The 86 Broncos had fairly good talent. However, when you compare the talent on the Broncos then to their contempories playing in the NFL, the talent of the 86 Broncos didn't match up very well.

In fact, the super bowl against the Giants when the Broncos had a chance to score early at least on two occassions inside the 5 yd line. Instead of having a mamoth OL to blow the Giants off the ball and then hand off to a hulking power driving FB. Reeves had to settle for some sort of trickery-gadget plays and the great Giant defense sniffed those plays out and instead of scoring 2 TD's, the Broncos come away with 3 points versus 14 points.

In the first half between the 20's, the Giants had no answers for the Broncos offense. However, by the 2nd half the Giants figured out what the Broncos were doing on both sides of the ball and eventually took the game over.

[Canmore]

The 86 Broncos had fairly good talent. However, when you compare the talent on the Broncos then to their contempories playing in the NFL, the talent of the 86 Broncos didn't match up very well.

In fact, the super bowl against the Giants when the Broncos had a chance to score early at least on two occassions inside the 5 yd line. Instead of having a mamoth OL to blow the Giants off the ball and then hand off to a hulking power driving FB. Reeves had to settle for some sort of trickery-gadget plays and the great Giant defense sniffed those plays out and instead of scoring 2 TD's, the Broncos come away with 3 points versus 14 points.

In the first half between the 20's, the Giants had no answers for the Broncos offense. However, by the 2nd half the Giants figured out what the Broncos were doing on both sides of the ball and eventually took the game over.

That's how I see it. We did not have the personel to match up in the trenches. We were dominated at the line of scrimmage, when it mattered. The eleven points we left off of the board in the Giants game were killer. The seven we missed in the second quarter were totally demoralizing. What if we had gone in to halftime leading 17-9 instead of 10-9? Maybe the second half blowout is tempered. The four touchdowns and a field goal in their first five possesions ended the game. I still think we got dominated at the line of scrimmage in three Super Bowls.

[BroncoStud]

How are they going to do something outside of Denver when they spent their whole careers with the Broncos? Sammy Winder had a nine year career and went to two Pro Bowls; Gerald Willhite was one of the best receiving fullbacks in the annals of the NFL, he was continually ripped-off when it came to being named to the Pro Bowl and he was in the league for seven seasons. Vance Johnson spent his ten seasons in Denver and though not a premier receiver was better then most we've seen since give the exception of McCaffrey, Smith and Marshall. Mark Johnson is still to this day is the most productive slot receiver we've had and his numbers rival most other slots of the modern era in terms of production year in and year out and he too was in Denver for seven or so seasons, and spent one with New York. Steve Sewell wasn't the greatest, but he did spend his whole career in Denver and contributed to more wins then we've had in the past two decades. And Steve Watson had a pretty solid career in his nine years in Denver and during that time was without a doubt our best receiver most seasons.

So your statement really is onerous because it's misleading, we have no idea how productive they would have been elsewhere...but they were quite productive here and that's what matters. I could ask the same of you in regards to Rod Smith, Karl Mecklenberg, Tom Jackson, Terrell Davis and several others who never saw the field in another team's jersey, but to do that would to be mar their accomplishments and that's what you do to those who played with Elway during Reeve's tenure.

While I agree with a lot of that, and I'm a big Willhite guy, reminded me of Larry Centers, just a decade earlier, but the "3 Amigos" were nowhere near the level of talent of the elite WRs in the NFL at that time, many of which we faced in playoff games and Super Bowls. I think it's safe to say that on most rosters they were #2 at BEST, probably #3. Still, they did have productive years but at the same time it sure helped having John Elway throwing you passes.

Denver didn't have a LEGIT receiving threat for Elway until Shannon Sharpe was drafted, he changed everything. Winder was OK, probably would have had a hard time starting for most teams. Sewell was a nice guy, met him and talked football with him, but he was far from NFL elite. The offensive line was decent, the defense was decent, Elway was elite. He carried those teams. Without Elway Dan Reeves is 12 games under .500, fact is fact.

[HammeredOut]

we need to start Tebow, so we can draft Andrew Luck. Simple as that. Orton will only keep us out of the running for a top QB.

[Canmore]

we need to start Tebow, so we can draft Andrew Luck. Simple as that. Orton will only keep us out of the running for a top QB.

Were going to suck no matter who starts at quarterback, but not bad enough to make the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

[titan]

That's how I see it. We did not have the personel to match up in the trenches. We were dominated at the line of scrimmage, when it mattered. The eleven points we left off of the board in the Giants game were killer. The seven we missed in the second quarter were totally demoralizing. What if we had gone in to halftime leading 17-9 instead of 10-9? Maybe the second half blowout is tempered. The four touchdowns and a field goal in their first five possesions ended the game. I still think we got dominated at the line of scrimmage in three Super Bowls.

That was the only Super Bowl game I attended in person and I agree with your assessment. The Broncos did have a chance in that game had they converted their opportunities in the first half - while the Giants were superior in the lines they didn't have an answer for Elway and the Broncos air assault in the 1st half.

I always thought the key play in that game was when Denver stopped the Giants on the first possession of the 2nd half, then Parcells called a fake punt and made the first down. Had the Broncos stopped that fake punt they would have been leading 10-9 with the ball around the Giants 45 yard line for their first possession in the 2nd half. Instead the Giants drove for a touchdown and never looked back.

The Broncos also played the Giants at NY in the regular season that year and lost in a very close game (19-16). In that game the Broncos had a 6-3 lead and were threatening to make in 13-3 at the half deep in NY territory when Elway threw an interception for a Giants TD. So instead of a 13-3 lead the Broncos trailed 10-6 at half. Even with that they still almost won the game. That game, and the 1st half of the Super Bowl, showed the Broncos were closer to beating the Giants than the final score of the SB would indicate. There were 4 or 5 key plays in the SB that didn't go Denver's way (the disallowed pass from their own 2 to the 25 to Clarence Kay was another - replays showed Kay caught the ball, then on the next play Elway gets sacked for a safety)

Back to 2011, I wouldn't be surprised if the Broncos drafted a QB in the 2012 draft. The play of the 2011 draft class is encouraging, and its going to take several drafts for the current regime to rebuild from the McD failures in the draft room.

[chazoe60]

we need to start Tebow, so we can draft Andrew Luck. Simple as that. Orton will only keep us out of the running for a top QB.

Quit copying and pasting your own posts. Come up with some new material. Tell us about how Tebow's teammates want him to play RB or about how Terry Bradshaw is a much better QB than Elway ever was. :laugh: