Cutler still has some growing up to do

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/nov/23/krieger-cutlers-play-personifies-broncos--and-down/


Cutler still has some growing up to do

In the midst of another dreary performance at home Sunday, the Broncos' discouraged partisans began streaming toward the parking lots sometime in the third quarter. They were cold, but not as cold as their team.

By the time the Raiders stretched their lead to three touchdowns with nearly 10 minutes to play in the fourth, the exodus was a flood. The stragglers that remained were not in a good mood, letting their heroes know exactly what they thought of another desultory show.

Last week, in Atlanta, the Broncos won a game almost no one expected them to win. This week, at the former Mile High Stadium parking lot, they lost a game no one expected them to lose.

On any given Sunday and all that, but sometimes it just looks like the Broncos forgot to take their medication. So I asked a number of them about the causes of this maddening inconsistency. The answers were illuminating.

Mike Shanahan listed all the good things his team did Sunday, suggesting a few mistakes were the only difference between last week's highs and this week's lows. He is a coach, after all. Stepping back and looking at the big picture is not his inclination.

Wide receiver Brandon Marshall was succinct:

"Immature," he said. "I think we're a fairly young team and we've been battling ups and downs all year."

Remarkably, Jay Cutler had no opinion. Not that he cared to share, anyway. Asked if he had an explanation for the ups and downs of the offense he runs, the Broncos' third-year quarterback replied:

"I do not. It's your guys' job to write it up."

Fair enough. So here it is: The heart of the Broncos' inconsistency is their quarterback. He personifies their split personality.

As Cutler goes, so goes his team. If you think turnovers are a good indicator of the Broncos' chances, you should check where they're coming from. Of the Broncos' 22 giveaways so far this year, 14 are Cutler's.

Or save time and just check his passer ratings:

In the Broncos' six wins: 137.5, 109.6, 93.3, 96.1, 107.9 and 106.4.

In the Broncos' five losses: 71.9, 77.8, 64.3, 60.7 and Sunday's 49.8, Cutler's worst game of the season.

That's an average of 108.5 in the wins and 64.9 in the losses. All their other issues aside, it is Cutler who sets the tone for the Broncos, both good and bad. And it is Cutler who personifies their immaturity, both on and off the field.

Not to trigger Jake flashbacks, but there is good Jay and there is bad Jay, and the final score almost always tells you which one showed up.

Sunday, the Broncos trumpeted Cutler getting to 3,000 passing yards in 11 games this season, tying John Elway in 1987 for the franchise record.

These are the wrong numbers to examine. Here are the numbers that matter:

Through his first 32 NFL starts, Cutler's record is 15-17.

Through his first 32 NFL starts, Elway's record was 22-10.

Who has the stronger arm doesn't matter. Who got how many passing yards how quickly doesn't matter. Winning matters. And Cutler has some work to do there.

The word is already out around the league that you can get into Cutler's head on the field, especially if things aren't going well for him.

I can't vouch for that, but we definitely see two different people after games, depending on the outcome.

After wins, Cutler is almost a stand-up comic, giving Marshall grief and showing a child's joy at a happy result.

After losses, he has nothing to say and considers accounting for the result an imposition. Every question is ridiculous. He mumbles a few quick answers and makes a rapid exit.

You might think this a natural response from a competitor, but keeping an even emotional keel is considered a key to success by most of the league's top quarterbacks.

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Philip Rivers, to name three, make an obvious effort to be professional and responsive after losses, as if they see it as a test of their maturity. Cutler, by contrast, too often comes off as a spoiled kid. When things don't go his way, he will be in a snit.

"If you want to be a good team in this league, you have to be consistent, and right now we're not very consistent," said veteran wideout Brandon Stokley.

In fairness, it is still only Cutler's third pro season.

One hopes he will mature with age, on and off the field. When a team drafts and develops its own quarterback, patience is required.

Still, he's 25 now and was outplayed Sunday by a 23-year-old.

Whether Cutler cares to address the issue or not, the single biggest improvement the Broncos could make right now would be more professionalism, more maturity and more consistency from their quarterback.

[broncofaninfla]

Totally agree

[CoachChaz]

No article could be truer.

[BroncoJoe]

I love the fact we have Cutler because of his potential, but this article is spot-on. Dude needs to grow up.

[Traveler]

And so it begins....Guess the honeymoon is over for Jay.

[G_Money]

That’s about the long and the short of it.

We can’t win without Cutler. Bates doesn’t believe in the running game. Didn’t when we had all our bodies there and REALLY doesn’t now. So if Jay’s having a bad game our running attack won’t be there to bail him out.

Our defense can’t stop anybody when it matters. So Jay needs to not be stopped when it matters.

When he’s on, we can eke out 1-score victories.

When he’s off, we get destroyed.

Whether he likes it or not, it’s on him. He KNOWS it’s on him. Which is why he presses so hard when he’s having an off game. He knows we can’t afford it, so he tries even harder to make big plays – and thereby screws up even harder, too.

Hopefully Shanahan takes pity on him and gives him at least one great back to complement the brute force of Hillis, and makes our offense commit again to the running attack. Rivers has had LT. Matt Ryan has the awesome ATL running attack. Even Russell has 3 good backs that SHOULD take the pressure off of him to do it all.

We won a Super Bowl with Elway having another off game, because TD wouldn’t be denied and our defense was hungry – and the whole team knew Elway would be around late in the game. Nobody has that faith in Cutler yet, and Cutler hasn’t got that running attack. He’s shown he can nosedive as hard as anyone, and start focusing on mistakes instead of forgetting about them and making the next drive the right one, but part of that is because he can’t just hand it off 8 times on the next drive and grind out a score.

He’s young. It happens. But it’s been that way his whole career, college and pros.

He didn’t have a lot of help at Vandy either. Here, we gave him the passing weapons…but we gave them TO HIM. We didn’t give him a running game to take pressure off his shoulders, we gave him every passing weapon we could find to put pressure on.

He had that at Vandy too, and he was brilliant at times and struggled at other times. If we want him to grow, we have to be able to win games when he can’t throw for 400 yards and 4 scores.

That starts with a running attack on offense and a defense that, at least occasionally, can bail out his mistakes. Have a no-turnover D with a turnover-prone QB is a bad recipe.

Fix the recipe, and maybe Jay can take his next steps toward being a dominant, WINNING quarterback.

~G

[Northman]

As Cutler goes, so goes his team. If you think turnovers are a good indicator of the Broncos' chances, you should check where they're coming from. Of the Broncos' 22 giveaways so far this year, 14 are Cutler's.

Or save time and just check his passer ratings:

In the Broncos' six wins: 137.5, 109.6, 93.3, 96.1, 107.9 and 106.4.

In the Broncos' five losses: 71.9, 77.8, 64.3, 60.7 and Sunday's 49.8, Cutler's worst game of the season.


Ive been pointing to this logic all year. Hopefully he will grow into a more consistent QB as he is still young but this is spot on.

[turftoad]

He needs to learn to check down once in a while.

He thinks he can throw for the BIG play to much and gets burnt.

That said, no sacks or INT's and no ability to stop the run doesn't help either.

[shank]

the first drive was how our offense should function 95% of the time. we were picking up first downs every 2-3 plays, taking what they would give us, and making it look easy. we should do that ALL game.

as soon as we had that first fumble, we got away from that, and it was our downfall on offense.

[Rex]

word

[LRtagger]

This problem has a lot to do with his coaching staff. Shanny and Bates should be getting on him for this crap. They should be mentors, not friends. Instead Shanny seems to think he can't get pissed at Jay because Jay might throw a tempter tantrum and give him the silent treatment. I haven't once seen Shanny get in Jay's face after a bad play like he used to with Bubby, Brian, and Jake. He just let's Jay go sulk on the bench with his head hung.

I think Bates is just too young to really know how to handle Jay.

IMO Jay's inconsistancies fall squarely in Shanny's lap. He needs to get this kid's head on straight and teach him how to handle himself like a PROFESSIONAL...because that is what he is. This isn't backyard football where you can take your ball and go home if things dont go your way.

Time to act like a professional...that should start with proper mentors. Once Jay learns how to carry himself, it will go a long way to him getting better from his mistakes, rather than letting them get into his head.

[broncophan]

You would think the kid would be mature enough to handle losses and deal with the media after losses.

He sure lost enough games at Vandy...........:confused:.....he should be used to dealing with losses...

And yes.....I know ther is more media with the broncos than when he was at Vandy.....but he was under the spotlight......esp. his senior year....

[topscribe]

The article is true, except for what it omits. Yes, Cutler should develop more
of an "even keel." The players around him also should pick up their own
performance. And the coaches have to get smarter.

Dropped passes aren't Cutler's fault. The Raiders had more constant pressure
on him than any other team so far this year. That wasn't Cutler's fault. It is
my understanding that Cutler doesn't call his own plays, except for an
occasional check off. Calling deep passes time after time after time is not
Cutler's fault.

Remember when Favre came to town with the Packers and beat the Broncos
with two deep passes? How many deep passes did Favre throw in that game?
Two. At least, there weren't many more than that.

The Broncos have great receivers in the slot and at TE, and the outside
receivers are good short and long. And Hillis is a terrific receiver. So where
were the slants, the hooks, the dumps out of the backfield? Where was the
West Coast?

Cutler did not have his best game. Neither did the receivers or the linemen.
But what really stunk up the joint was the play calling. Whoever calls the
plays (we can never seem to get that straight) should lose his voice.

I'm not making excuses for Cutler. Yes, he stunk it up yesterday. I'm just
saying the problems range beyond him . . . far beyond him.

-----

[silkamilkamonico]

Good article.

I also think it's unfortunate for a 25 year old kid to bear that kind of burden.

"We don't have a chance of winning, unless you play exceptionally well. Be a robot."

It's Shanahan's job to develop a team around him, and he's been very poor at doing that right now, specifically on the defensive side of the ball.

[Northman]

Remember when Favre came to town with the Packers and beat the Broncos
with two deep passes? How many deep passes did Favre throw in that game?
Two. At least, there weren't many more than that.



That could change this week. :lol:

[topscribe]

Good article.

I also think it's unfortunate for a 25 year old kid to bear that kind of burden.

"We don't have a chance of winning, unless you play exceptionally well. Be a robot."

It's Shanahan's job to develop a team around him, and he's been very poor at doing that right now, specifically on the defensive side of the ball.

Football, especially defense is EMOTION. The Broncos haven't seemed to have
much of that since Al Wilson left. Nobody's been there to take up the slack,
at least from the perspective of leadership. Sure, Winborn jumps around and
talks trash. But I'm talking about getting the other guys to going.

Shanahan is no help there. He has said, in effect, that these guys are "pros"
and should not need to be emotionally driven. That's one side of football
Shanny has never seemed to learn . . .

-----

[Northman]

Football, especially defense is EMOTION. The Broncos haven't seemed to have
much of that since Al Wilson left. Nobody's been there to take up the slack,
at least from the perspective of leadership. Sure, Winborn jumps around and
talks trash. But I'm talking about getting the other guys to going.

Shanahan is no help there. He has said, in effect, that these guys are "pros"
and should not need to be emotionally driven. That's one side of football
Shanny has never seemed to learn . . .

-----


We seriously need a nasty linebacker again in the middle. I know a lot of people hate Ray Lewis but the guy is a baller and gets that defense motivated. It does help that he has good players with him but it goes beyond that when i see him sitting out for an injury and he still pumps them up. Urlacher and Porter do much of the same thing.

[topscribe]

We seriously need a nasty linebacker again in the middle. I know a lot of people hate Ray Lewis but the guy is a baller and gets that defense motivated. It does help that he has good players with him but it goes beyond that when i see him sitting out for an injury and he still pumps them up. Urlacher and Porter do much of the same thing.

Spencer Larsen has a lot of fire, and he hits like a mortar shell. Only problem
is, he's a rookie right now . . . but he's an older rookie. He is also very
unimposing, borne of a solid family life that teaches social manners.

I'm hoping that Spence gets over his rookie status in his mind and starts
rallying the troops, but we probably won't see much of that until next year. I
have seen him out there, pointing at players and spots on the field, directing
traffic, so maybe he will yet come forth with some more of the leadership
characteristics.

-----

[Northman]

Spencer Larsen has a lot of fire, and he hits like a mortar shell. Only problem
is, he's a rookie right now . . . but he's an older rookie. He is also very
unimposing, borne of a solid family life that teaches social manners.

I'm hoping that Spence gets over his rookie status in his mind and starts
rallying the troops, but we probably won't see much of that until next year. I
have seen him out there, pointing at players and spots on the field, directing
traffic, so maybe he will yet come forth with some more of the leadership
characteristics.

-----


Hate to say it but ive been more impressed with the rookies than the starters. :lol:

[DenverBronkHoes]

jay still runs the plays that are called......

throwing across field, throwing into traffic.... he thinks he's super man...

regardless.... i still think he's one of the best in the league despite his faults. And no matter what the media makes him up to be, he is our guy for a while...

Jay writes his own story. With the weapons he has 10 points is no excuse even if i think the playcalling was shit....

[Bronco9798]

Right now it's no different than watching when Jake played. Good game, Bad, game, 2 good games, 3 bad games, etc., It's all the same right now. Only difference is Cutler has more natural ability than Jake. But, overall, not much difference. I'm only talking about now, not 3 years from now. Just what I see at the present time.

[DenverBronkHoes]

help us G

help us

[Lonestar]

That’s about the long and the short of it.

We can’t win without Cutler. Bates doesn’t believe in the running game. Didn’t when we had all our bodies there and REALLY doesn’t now. So if Jay’s having a bad game our running attack won’t be there to bail him out.

Our defense can’t stop anybody when it matters. So Jay needs to not be stopped when it matters.

When he’s on, we can eke out 1-score victories.

When he’s off, we get destroyed.

Whether he likes it or not, it’s on him. He KNOWS it’s on him. Which is why he presses so hard when he’s having an off game. He knows we can’t afford it, so he tries even harder to make big plays – and thereby screws up even harder, too.

Hopefully Shanahan takes pity on him and gives him at least one great back to complement the brute force of Hillis, and makes our offense commit again to the running attack. Rivers has had LT. Matt Ryan has the awesome ATL running attack. Even Russell has 3 good backs that SHOULD take the pressure off of him to do it all.

We won a Super Bowl with Elway having another off game, because TD wouldn’t be denied and our defense was hungry – and the whole team knew Elway would be around late in the game. Nobody has that faith in Cutler yet, and Cutler hasn’t got that running attack. He’s shown he can nosedive as hard as anyone, and start focusing on mistakes instead of forgetting about them and making the next drive the right one, but part of that is because he can’t just hand it off 8 times on the next drive and grind out a score.

He’s young. It happens. But it’s been that way his whole career, college and pros.

He didn’t have a lot of help at Vandy either. Here, we gave him the passing weapons…but we gave them TO HIM. We didn’t give him a running game to take pressure off his shoulders, we gave him every passing weapon we could find to put pressure on.

He had that at Vandy too, and he was brilliant at times and struggled at other times. If we want him to grow, we have to be able to win games when he can’t throw for 400 yards and 4 scores.

That starts with a running attack on offense and a defense that, at least occasionally, can bail out his mistakes. Have a no-turnover D with a turnover-prone QB is a bad recipe.

Fix the recipe, and maybe Jay can take his next steps toward being a dominant, WINNING quarterback.

~G

good analysis but think in this manner

At vandy NO one expected to win.. In Den the expectations are tad bit higher..

When he made the John Elway comparison he made huge mistake..

Now I have not looked at it but are we wining on the road and losing at home because the crowd get s on him at home when he does something stupid..

I'm not in the stands and frankly have missed alot of the games this year because HOU seems to be the team of choice this year for the local stations..

The one thing I see and really do not like are all the shots of him sitting on the bench alone like greasy used to do.. or of the shots of him coming off the field pssed because of a mistake.. these things really scare me..

[Lonestar]

Hate to say it but ive been more impressed with the rookies than the starters. :lol:

everyone but mikey or maybe slowick has been.. I'd rather take mistakes occasionally than poor play.. uninspired play

[Denver Native (Carol)]

everyone but mikey or maybe slowick has been.. I'd rather take mistakes occasionally than poor play.. uninspired play

How do you know that they have not been?

[Lonestar]

How do you know that they have not been?

Well if slowick did he make the position changes permanent..

well if mikey got it he'd fire slowick today.. IMHO

[BeefStew25]

First of all, who really gives a shit what some half wit fish wrap writer thinks. These guys take it personal if they don't get their quotes.

Jay will be fine.

All you ADD have it now generation slap dycks be patient.

[Bronco Bible]

Football, especially defense is EMOTION. The Broncos haven't seemed to have
much of that since Al Wilson left. Nobody's been there to take up the slack,
at least from the perspective of leadership. Sure, Winborn jumps around and
talks trash. But I'm talking about getting the other guys to going.

Shanahan is no help there. He has said, in effect, that these guys are "pros"
and should not need to be emotionally driven. That's one side of football
Shanny has never seemed to learn . . .

-----

People may have taken exception with his tackling ability.........but he could lead a defense.:beer:

[gobroncsnv]

Hate to say it but ive been more impressed with the rookies than the starters. :lol:


Nothing to hate about saying the truth... Just too bad we don't have any rookies on the dline, based on the above.

[gobroncsnv]

Hate to say it but ive been more impressed with the rookies than the starters. :lol:


Nothing to hate about saying the truth... Just too bad we don't have any rookies on the dline, based on the above.

And for the record, and the thread topic, welcome to Denver, Jay. Just be glad you're not playing for the Eagles after a game like yesterday's. You'll need to get some pretty thick skin until you play with more consistency, and more better and more gooder. Check down off your main reads, and throw to someone who's open. Don't think the coaching staff will get after you about that.

[56crash]

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609

wensday 19th cutler video the only thing hr misses is to pick buggers

[Bronco9798]

Nothing to hate about saying the truth... Just too bad we don't have any rookies on the dline, based on the above.

And for the record, and the thread topic, welcome to Denver, Jay. Just be glad you're not playing for the Eagles after a game like yesterday's. You'll need to get some pretty thick skin until you play with more consistency, and more better and more gooder. Check down off your main reads, and throw to someone who's open. Don't think the coaching staff will get after you about that.

Rookies play better than Elvis. He's such a nobody. Funny watching people slobbering over how great he was going to be the last couple of years. He's a bust of epic proportions.

[Bronco9798]

javascript:openWindow('page.php?id=349&videoID=3040&type=broncosTV&year=&month=','mmWindow','resizable=no,scrollbars=no,wid th=615,height=580')

I agree...:confused:

[BroncoTech]

Rookies play better than Elvis. He's such a nobody. Funny watching people slobbering over how great he was going to be the last couple of years. He's a bust of epic proportions.

Naw you're giving too much credit, there's nothing epic about him.

[G_Money]

Rookies play better than Elvis. He's such a nobody. Funny watching people slobbering over how great he was going to be the last couple of years. He's a bust of epic proportions.

You can't really be a bust of epic proportions when you were drafted in the middle of the 2nd day and you sometimes do what you were supposed to do: create pressure from your side of the line on passing downs.

Is Doom great? No. Do I want him starting? No.

Would I like to have him as my backup pass-rush package DE with a better squad that can collapse the pocket and drive the QB at him? Yeah.

Dumervil is a situational player. It's not his fault we play him all the time.

If you want to talk busts, find me the plays the much bigger, much more expensive, much higher drafted Moss and Crowder are making.

That should take all of 5 seconds.

~G

[DenverBronkHoes]

leave DOOM alone..... G is right, he is a situational player. He needs to be complimented by a monster linemen.... a guy that requires ALOT of attention. Thats when Elvis can shine. Throw him on a team with an interior line(bills, raiders, pats, titans....) he would be more productive....

The guy's motor never stops.... And if u could see how many times a game he gets held you may have more respect for him 9798

[Rex]

leave DOOM alone..... G is right, he is a situational player. He needs to be complimented by a monster linemen.... a guy that requires ALOT of attention. Thats when Elvis can shine. Throw him on a team with an interior line(bills, raiders, pats, titans....) he would be more productive....

The guy's motor never stops.... And if u could see how many times a game he gets held you may have more respect for him 9798

Too bad good motors on situational players dont produce more sacks and support vs. the run.:coffee:

[DenverBronkHoes]

Too bad good motors on situational players dont produce more sacks and support vs. the run.:coffee:

our best run stuffer is white.........

ill just stop right there

[Rex]

our best run stuffer is white.........

ill just stop right there

racist.

[DenverBronkHoes]

and im getting sick of these UF guys

[DenverBronkHoes]

racist.

anti-racist

[DenverBronkHoes]

for the record i am not racist.....

i am against racism, sexism, homophobicism..... and planty of ism's in between... Just wanna clear it up for who dont know me and have their hands on that BAN button

dont want anymore tattle talers coming from the woodwork

[Rex]

for the record i am not racist.....

i am against racism, sexism, homophobicism..... and planty of ism's in between... Just wanna clear it up for who dont know me and have their hands on that BAN button

dont want anymore tattle talers coming from the woodwork

You are also against soap and water.

[CoachChaz]

You can't really be a bust of epic proportions when you were drafted in the middle of the 2nd day and you sometimes do what you were supposed to do: create pressure from your side of the line on passing downs.

Is Doom great? No. Do I want him starting? No.

Would I like to have him as my backup pass-rush package DE with a better squad that can collapse the pocket and drive the QB at him? Yeah.

Dumervil is a situational player. It's not his fault we play him all the time.

If you want to talk busts, find me the plays the much bigger, much more expensive, much higher drafted Moss and Crowder are making.

That should take all of 5 seconds.

~G

I'd be more prone to agree with you if either of them git any kind of regular playing time.

[DallasChief]

for the record i am not racist.....

i am against racism, sexism, homophobicism..... and planty of ism's in between... Just wanna clear it up for who dont know me and have their hands on that BAN button

dont want anymore tattle talers coming from the woodwork

Abraham Lincoln once said that 'If you're a racist, I will attack you with the North' and these are the principles I carry with me in the workplace.

[Zweems56]

Abraham Lincoln once said that 'If you're a racist, I will attack you with the North' and these are the principles I carry with me in the workplace.

How would you manage to "attack with the north" nowadays? Make them watch the knicks?

[DallasChief]

How would you manage to "attack with the north" nowadays? Make them watch the knicks? Incest is bad; racism is bad. ...the more we can encourage interracial dating as a society, the further away we get from incest. Literally.

[Bronco Bible]

:focus:Cutler is And has been a pro quarterback........that said he should know by now to check down B.Marshall is not the only guy paid to catch the ball.JMO

[G_Money]

I'd be more prone to agree with you if either of them git any kind of regular playing time.

I would be all for letting Crowder play DE full-time the rest of the year, just to see if he’s a total failure or what. At least he'd be bigger and might slow down the run to his side late in games.

Moss is at least getting on the field for a few plays to prove he still doesn’t know anything.

Burney, our DL coach, better hit the bricks when Slowik does. I can’t think of any defensive lineman who is better now than they were when they got here. Doesn’t he teach them anything? “Hey, that crappy swim move looks fine. Keep doing it just like that on every play and I’m sure eventually it’ll work.” :rolleyes:

~G

[CoachChaz]

I would be all for letting Crowder play DE full-time the rest of the year, just to see if he’s a total failure or what. At least he'd be bigger and might slow down the run to his side late in games.

Moss is at least getting on the field for a few plays to prove he still doesn’t know anything.

Burney, our DL coach, better hit the bricks when Slowik does. I can’t think of any defensive lineman who is better now than they were when they got here. Doesn’t he teach them anything? “Hey, that crappy swim move looks fine. Keep doing it just like that on every play and I’m sure eventually it’ll work.” :rolleyes:

~G

I guess I just cant figure out how Crowder can be 2nd on the team in sacks as a rookie and now he cant get on the field ahead of the current list of hacks we have there. I'm actually more prone to believe that the coaches are clueless moreso than Crowder is a bad player. if it's a matter of being in a "doghouse", then someone needs to let a few dogs out because the players currently on the field arent cutting it.

[Traveler]

I would be all for letting Crowder play DE full-time the rest of the year, just to see if he’s a total failure or what. At least he'd be bigger and might slow down the run to his side late in games.

Moss is at least getting on the field for a few plays to prove he still doesn’t know anything.

Burney, our DL coach, better hit the bricks when Slowik does. I can’t think of any defensive lineman who is better now than they were when they got here. Doesn’t he teach them anything? “Hey, that crappy swim move looks fine. Keep doing it just like that on every play and I’m sure eventually it’ll work.” :rolleyes:

~G


G,

Have you noticed when Moss does get in, the only move he knows seems to be a bullrush? My guess is that he is being told/taught to defend the run first, even on passing downs.

I recently watched the national championship game where Moss dominated. Looks like a totaly different player now. He was attacking the outside shoulders of the OT and killing them with his speed.

Why are they not letting him do that here?

[CoachChaz]

G,

have you noticed when Moss does get in, the only move he knows seems to be a bullrush? My guess is that he is being told/taught to defend the run first, even on passing downs.

I recently watched the national championship game where Moss dominated. Looks like a totaly different player now. He was attacking the outside shoulders of the OT and killing them with his speed.

Why are they not letting him do that here?

Because Slowik runs probably the MOST vanilla defensive scheme there is. So, he taked his fast but underweight DE's and has them bull rush so theat the OLB's can make the plays.

Utilizing a players actual talents in Denver? Blasphemy!!

[Lonestar]

was just listening to Rome

His vacation replacement (the only reason I did not change the channel when the show came on) really railed on Jay..
said he was horrific in his play on Sunday against the raiders..

Also brought up a comparison between him and the old Manning before they were really successful..

Yelling at his team mates on the filed isolation from them on the sidelines, his physical demeanor coming of the field after a bad series slumping shoulder look on his face..


Folks this is now a national issue that I hope Jay can overcome.. if not we have another greasy on our hands.. We all know how that turned out his team gave up on him..

[Mike]

was just listening to Rome

His vacation replacement (the only reason I did not change the channel when the show came on) really railed on Jay..
said he was horrific in his play on Sunday against the raiders..

Also brought up a comparison between him and the old Manning before they were really successful..

Yelling at his team mates on the filed isolation from them on the sidelines, his physical demeanor coming of the field after a bad series slumping shoulder look on his face..


Folks this is now a national issue that I hope Jay can overcome.. if not we have another greasy on our hands..

It would probably help a little if the playcalling was better and more even and his receivers held onto the ball.

And Coaches need to put the players in position to succeed. Right now, they (even if with his consent) are putting everything on his shoulders. That's crap. The team lives or dies with Cutler and it doesn't have to be that way. Simplify the game plan and tailor it to get the most out of the players abilities.

[G_Money]

If you listened to Mike’s Monday press conference, the offense is blameless in the loss.

It was the defense’s fault for wearing down and giving up all those third down conversions in the 2nd half (7-for-7).

He shrugged off the kicker and said he’ll either get better or get fired, didn’t touch much on the special teams TD, and said the fumble was just miscommunication but getting 21 first downs mid-way through the 3rd quarter meant the offense was fine.

Nothing to see there. Move along.

So either:

1) Shanahan is hallucinating about the play-calling or
2) He’s turning the pressure up on Slowik to see if he folds like a lawn chair.

He does love Jay though. He gets this warm fuzzy voice talking about what a competitor he is. This isn’t one of those Griese things where Shanny couldn’t get through to him, or Plummer who didn’t want to put in the work. Shanahan adores Jay – maybe because Jay is his last shot at regained glory with the Broncos and he needs him to work out more than he needs air or suntan lotion, or maybe because he saw young Elway too, and he can feel how on-the-verge Cutler is.

We’ll see, I guess. I’m still hopeful it’s the latter too.

Get him a running game Shanny! Running the ball saves a QB’s bacon in games when he can’t throw worth a damn, FYI…

~G

[rcsodak]

I miss Jake:coffee:

[MOtorboat]

I miss Jake:coffee:

:tsk:

[Broncospsycho77]

You have to make a mistake before you learn from it. We're getting less mistakes with Jay nowadays, but when those mistakes appear, we'd better hope Jay addresses them immediately and wholeheartedly. As long as his work ethic stays up, he has a place in the Mike Shanahan offense.

[fcspikeit]

"Remarkably, Jay Cutler had no opinion. Not that he cared to share, anyway. Asked if he had an explanation for the ups and downs of the offense he runs, the Broncos' third-year quarterback replied:

"I do not. It's your guys' job to write it up."

Fair enough. So here it is: The heart of the Broncos' inconsistency is their quarterback. He personifies their split personality."

Is it just me or does this guy sound a bit pissed Cutler wouldn't give him the time of day? It reminds of something a chick would write about a guy who just turned her down.. IMO, He needs to do some growing up.



"In the Broncos' six wins: 137.5, 109.6, 93.3, 96.1, 107.9 and 106.4.

In the Broncos' five losses: 71.9, 77.8, 64.3, 60.7 and Sunday's 49.8, Cutler's worst game of the season."

So let me get this strait, Cutler HAS to put up LMVP type # or we lose... Then will blame the losses on him when he can't do it week in and week out :rolleyes:

It's so dumb, what does those #'s mean anyways? When you play bad you lose? You don't say :eek:

How is it writers in Denver always overlook Shanahan and the play calling? The bottom line is that the game plan they put together didn't work! If the game plan is to run the Hail Mary every play the QB's #'s will look like crab at the end of ever game.

Think on this, our first 15 plays are scripted. What happens when they don't work? Do we change our plan based on what the defence is giving us? NO! When we go into the half, we try and change a bit then script some more. If that don't work, we're screwed!

Shanahan looks smart when he gets the script right, He looks like a fool when he doesn't. Yet these writers always overlook the fool and place blame on the players.

I'm not saying Jay didn't play like crap. But it's sad when he has to play at such a high level for us to win, only for us to run him in the ground when he don't. Then, this punk blast's him for being pissed off when he plays bad..

[LRtagger]

It would probably help a little if the playcalling was better


I'll admit that playcalling was bad at times, but for Jay to start throwing EVERY ball 40 yards downfield was idiotic. Just because they call a play where Marshall or Royal run a deep route, doesnt mean Jay has to throw the ball deep. I doubt Mike said "OK Jay, throw the ball deep on this play regardless of coverage...even if someone is open underneath. We are down by 10 early in the 3rd quarter, so our only choice is to go for the homerun."

Jay was absolutely terrible on Sunday regardless of what plays were called. And even when he wasnt throwing into double coverage and had a guy open, he couldnt hit his target. Out of 21 incomplete passes, how many were actually drops? 6, 7 maybe at the most?

I wish Jay would start dumping the ball off to Hillis more. What Jay doesnt seem to understand is that the more balls he throws underneath and over the middle, the more open the deep balls will be when the safeties start cheating up. Even if the safeties dont cheat up, the LBs will cheat back and that opens up the running lanes.

Playcalling and decision making has been terrible this year (excluding the first 3 games). Remember the year Jake took us to the NFCC game was the one year he realized he had to take what the defense gave him and knock off the idiot mistakes. If Jay can realize that we will regain our consistancy. An early fumble shouldn't dictate playcalling and decision making. You can't steer away from your gameplan because of an early turnover.

[LRtagger]

How is it writers in Denver always overlook Shanahan and the play calling? The bottom line is that the game plan they put together didn't work! If the game plan is to run the Hail Mary every play the QB's #'s will look like crab at the end of ever game.

Think on this, our first 15 plays are scripted. What happens when they don't work? Do we change our plan based on what the defence is giving us? NO! When we go into the half, we try and change a bit then script some more. If that don't work, we're screwed!

The problem with this is, the gameplan DID work. Did you miss the opening drive where we picked up yardage at will until the fumble at the 5 yard line?

Like I said, just because a receiver runs deep doesnt mean Jay has to throw it deep. You will see at least one receiver run 20+ yards downfield on most plays, but you dont have to throw it there.

Jay let the fumble get into his head and got away from our gameplan. He thought he had to do it all himself. When he lets his playmakers make the plays for him...thats when we win games.

Not only that, but a lot of those deep routes were open and Jay missed the receiver.

[CoachChaz]

The problem with this is, the gameplan DID work. Did you miss the opening drive where we picked up yardage at will until the fumble at the 5 yard line?

Like I said, just because a receiver runs deep doesnt mean Jay has to throw it deep. You will see at least one receiver run 20+ yards downfield on most plays, but you dont have to throw it there.

Jay let the fumble get into his head and got away from our gameplan. He thought he had to do it all himself. When he lets his playmakers make the plays for him...thats when we win games.

Not only that, but a lot of those deep routes were open and Jay missed the receiver.


This is becoming a recurring thing. It seems like there is someone open on every play that he misses. Stokely complained about this last year and apparently it dod no good. Jay needs to work on his recognition

[rcsodak]

:tsk:
He didn't have half the receiving corp that cutler has....

...he won more games than he lost...


...and he got the team to the playoffs!

[rcsodak]

"Remarkably, Jay Cutler had no opinion. Not that he cared to share, anyway. Asked if he had an explanation for the ups and downs of the offense he runs, the Broncos' third-year quarterback replied:

"I do not. It's your guys' job to write it up."

Fair enough. So here it is: The heart of the Broncos' inconsistency is their quarterback. He personifies their split personality."

Is it just me or does this guy sound a bit pissed Cutler wouldn't give him the time of day? It reminds of something a chick would write about a guy who just turned her down.. IMO, He needs to do some growing up.



"In the Broncos' six wins: 137.5, 109.6, 93.3, 96.1, 107.9 and 106.4.

In the Broncos' five losses: 71.9, 77.8, 64.3, 60.7 and Sunday's 49.8, Cutler's worst game of the season."

So let me get this strait, Cutler HAS to put up LMVP type # or we lose... Then will blame the losses on him when he can't do it week in and week out :rolleyes:

It's so dumb, what does those #'s mean anyways? When you play bad you lose? You don't say :eek:

How is it writers in Denver always overlook Shanahan and the play calling? The bottom line is that the game plan they put together didn't work! If the game plan is to run the Hail Mary every play the QB's #'s will look like crab at the end of ever game.

Think on this, our first 15 plays are scripted. What happens when they don't work? Do we change our plan based on what the defence is giving us? NO! When we go into the half, we try and change a bit then script some more. If that don't work, we're screwed!

Shanahan looks smart when he gets the script right, He looks like a fool when he doesn't. Yet these writers always overlook the fool and place blame on the players.

I'm not saying Jay didn't play like crap. But it's sad when he has to play at such a high level for us to win, only for us to run him in the ground when he don't. Then, this punk blast's him for being pissed off when he plays bad..

I've heard this before, spike.

Coulda swore there were plenty of people on here 'blaming' Jake for losses, when he'd 'play like crap', instead of the team as a whole.

It's a shame people on this board can't look themselves in the mirror and hear what they're saying.... :rolleyes:

Cutler DID play like crap! And ever since his 'my arm is stronger than his' statement, his play has gone to shit!!!!!! Seems there's a little bit of karma coming back to kick him in the face. :coffee:

To be honest, he reminds me of manning and brady, in their earlier years. He's got that sourpuss look on his face and is whining all the time.
How about he just show some REAL leadership, keep his baby antics to himself and play the game like it's supposed to be played....as an ADULT!

[rcsodak]

I'll admit that playcalling was bad at times, but for Jay to start throwing EVERY ball 40 yards downfield was idiotic. Just because they call a play where Marshall or Royal run a deep route, doesnt mean Jay has to throw the ball deep. I doubt Mike said "OK Jay, throw the ball deep on this play regardless of coverage...even if someone is open underneath. We are down by 10 early in the 3rd quarter, so our only choice is to go for the homerun."

Jay was absolutely terrible on Sunday regardless of what plays were called. And even when he wasnt throwing into double coverage and had a guy open, he couldnt hit his target. Out of 21 incomplete passes, how many were actually drops? 6, 7 maybe at the most?

I wish Jay would start dumping the ball off to Hillis more. What Jay doesnt seem to understand is that the more balls he throws underneath and over the middle, the more open the deep balls will be when the safeties start cheating up. Even if the safeties dont cheat up, the LBs will cheat back and that opens up the running lanes.

Playcalling and decision making has been terrible this year (excluding the first 3 games). Remember the year Jake took us to the NFCC game was the one year he realized he had to take what the defense gave him and knock off the idiot mistakes. If Jay can realize that we will regain our consistancy. An early fumble shouldn't dictate playcalling and decision making. You can't steer away from your gameplan because of an early turnover.

"NFCC"? :confused:

[fcspikeit]

The problem with this is, the gameplan DID work. Did you miss the opening drive where we picked up yardage at will until the fumble at the 5 yard line?

Like I said, just because a receiver runs deep doesnt mean Jay has to throw it deep. You will see at least one receiver run 20+ yards downfield on most plays, but you dont have to throw it there.

Jay let the fumble get into his head and got away from our gameplan. He thought he had to do it all himself. When he lets his playmakers make the plays for him...thats when we win games.

Not only that, but a lot of those deep routes were open and Jay missed the receiver.


I didn't see the game, There was no late game here in Idaho. :sad:

I agree in part with what your saying. IMO the problem goes back to what Marshall said at the end of the cleveland game. He said, We only needed that one big play by Royal to get back on track.

He was right but it sounds like that was all Cutler was looking for, that one big play to get things going again, it happened last week against Atlanta too.

I can't say for sure one way or another, but it sounds like Cutler had a bad game. It happens.

Also, my point about calling the Hail Mary bomb every play was only ment to say, Many things affect the QB's #'s.

If guys were open on the deep routs, then who can blame Cutler for throwing it deep? It sounds like he was making the right reads, just not throwing well.

As A whole, I think he has played well this year. He has had some bad games. Some of those games where he had bad #'s he played better then the #'s. He didn't play as well as the #s say in some of the other games.

When we look at the whole picture, Cutler is not the biggest problem on this team. Therefore, IMO it is dumb to blame our up and down season solely on him...

[fcspikeit]

I've heard this before, spike.

Coulda swore there were plenty of people on here 'blaming' Jake for losses, when he'd 'play like crap', instead of the team as a whole.

It's a shame people on this board can't look themselves in the mirror and hear what they're saying.... :rolleyes:

Cutler DID play like crap! And ever since his 'my arm is stronger than his' statement, his play has gone to shit!!!!!! Seems there's a little bit of karma coming back to kick him in the face. :coffee:

To be honest, he reminds me of manning and brady, in their earlier years. He's got that sourpuss look on his face and is whining all the time.
How about he just show some REAL leadership, keep his baby antics to himself and play the game like it's supposed to be played....as an ADULT!

There is no point in making this a Jay vs Jake thread. Plummer wasn't the answer. Maybe Cutler isn't either? Either way, No matter how bad Cutler plays, it don't change the fact, Plummer's biggest asset was gone, (His heart) He was talking of retiring the year before the AFCCG.

Maybe that's why Shanahan drafted Cutler? Maybe he just hated him, who knows? But he wasn't getting it done and it was time to move on. If that day comes for Cutler, we will have to do the same. None of that makes Plummer any better or worse then he was...

Therefore I stand by everything I said about Plummer and so does the guy staring back at me in the mirror..

I take it you missed both the cleveland and Atlanta games..

[BroncoJoe]

Grow up already.

[LRtagger]

"NFCC"? :confused:

Sorry, meant AFCC...was reading about Donatell getting fired when I wrote that.

[LRtagger]

He didn't have half the receiving corp that cutler has....

...he won more games than he lost...


...and he got the team to the playoffs!

He also had a running game and a pretty good defense. We were like +20 on turnover ratio that year. Even if Cutler had zero interceptions, we would only be even.

This defense cant stop the run, stop the pass, or create turnovers...Jake didnt have to worry about trying to score points with every possession because our D didnt suck.

[rcsodak]

He also had a running game and a pretty good defense. We were like +20 on turnover ratio that year. Even if Cutler had zero interceptions, we would only be even.

This defense cant stop the run, stop the pass, or create turnovers...Jake didnt have to worry about trying to score points with every possession because our D didnt suck.

So now you're saying the BROWNCOS Dline was good? :tsk:

[Lonestar]

So now you're saying the BROWNCOS Dline was good? :tsk:


certainly better than todays DL.. but then that is not saying much..

[Watchthemiddle]

Couldn't of written this article better myself.

[Nomad]

It does get old watching Cutler pout around the field. 3 yrs and still the same, this excuse is done with after this year. He needs to be the motivator and voice of confidence with this team, but I agree with many posts here that Shanahan is just as guilty as Cutler. Shanahan needs to get off his power trip and realize he's a great coach and that's it and focus more on his specialty. Cutler needs to learn he has the potential to be great but with a childlike attitude is nothing more than an average QB who won't/can't lead his team.