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Tned
08-13-2011, 10:45 PM
Ted Sundquist sent me the following question, which I thought would make for a good poll and discussion:


RT @Ted_Sundquist: @BroncosForums @BroncosForums Some one asked me if I thought the #QB of the future was on the current roster? Thoughts?

BeefStew25
08-13-2011, 10:46 PM
No. Sandy Clough was told by insiders that The Man is not currently with us.

I Eat Staples
08-13-2011, 10:47 PM
I strongly doubt it. Orton probably isn't going to get better than he is right now, Tebow probably won't ever be able to play QB in the NFL, and Brady Quinn hasn't shown anything to suggest he isn't just a bust.

chazoe60
08-13-2011, 10:48 PM
Nope, hes currently enrolled in college. Probably in the state of California.

Tned
08-13-2011, 10:51 PM
FWIW, my answer to him was 60/40 yes.

I think there is a slim chance that Orton will be that guy. If John Fox creates the running game that he promises (most sophisticated in NFL), and if the O-line gels into a dominant force as some think, AND if the defense becomes a middle of the pack D, then I think Orton could do well here. They may very well see his upside (decent accuracy, limited turnovers) as out weighing his downside (not a playmaker, unlikely to lead team back from behind).

Tebow is just such an unknown right now. I still believe that he could be the long term solution, but losing this offseason really hurt him. The best chance for him to become the long terms answer is for Orton to get hurt (which I hope doesn't happen) or for the broncos to go out and lose 4 of the first 6 or so (which I hope doesn't happen), so that he likely gets a chance to work with the first team and play in live game situations.

BeefStew25
08-13-2011, 10:59 PM
Tend, I would argue the opposite. The best thing may be for Orton to play well, and have Tebow sit and learn for another year. Make up for the missed offseason.

I dunno. We need 3rd downs converted. Orton still likes Prater too much.

chazoe60
08-13-2011, 11:02 PM
Orton like Colquitt more than Prater.

Canmore
08-13-2011, 11:03 PM
Orton like Colquitt more than Prater.

Orton likes Jack more than Colquitt or Prater. :laugh:

Tned
08-13-2011, 11:04 PM
Tend, I would argue the opposite. The best thing may be for Orton to play well, and have Tebow sit and learn for another year. Make up for the missed offseason.

I dunno. We need 3rd downs converted. Orton still likes Prater too much.

The logic, if you can call it that, in my thinking is that if Orton plays out the year and the Broncos are just so/so, and the Broncos don't resign him, then they have to decide soley based on the VERY limited in season practice that the new CBA allows (total of 14 padded practices I believe) whether or not Tebow is ready to be the guy in '12 or whether they have to draft or trade for someone.

Normally, I am a big proponent of having a young QB sit one or two years to develop (I hoped that would be the case with Cutler), but with how bad the last two years have been, I am not sure the franchise will have that kind of patience.

BeefStew25
08-13-2011, 11:07 PM
The logic, if you can call it that, in my thinking is that if Orton plays out the year and the Broncos are just so/so, and the Broncos don't resign him, then they have to decide soley based on the VERY limited in season practice that the new CBA allows (total of 14 padded practices I believe) whether or not Tebow is ready to be the guy in '12 or whether they have to draft or trade for someone.

Normally, I am a big proponent of having a young QB sit one or two years to develop (I hoped that would be the case with Cutler), but with how bad the last two years have been, I am not sure the franchise will have that kind of patience.

I think Elway and Fox are big picture. Again, I dunno.

Cleaning up the D should help all involved.

Lancane
08-13-2011, 11:08 PM
FWIW, my answer to him was 60/40 yes.

I think there is a slim chance that Orton will be that guy. If John Fox creates the running game that he promises (most sophisticated in NFL), and if the O-line gels into a dominant force as some think, AND if the defense becomes a middle of the pack D, then I think Orton could do well here. They may very well see his upside (decent accuracy, limited turnovers) as out weighing his downside (not a playmaker, unlikely to lead team back from behind).

Tebow is just such an unknown right now. I still believe that he could be the long term solution, but losing this offseason really hurt him. The best chance for him to become the long terms answer is for Orton to get hurt (which I hope doesn't happen) or for the broncos to go out and lose 4 of the first 6 or so (which I hope doesn't happen), so that he likely gets a chance to work with the first team and play in live game situations.

I have to disagree, I think the organization as I stated in another thread may not see that disdain there is for Orton, partially cause they don't want to believe it and also because they believe winning will somehow win the fans to their ideology sort-to-speak. But I believe when they do finally realize it that they'll be looking at all options outside of Orton, even possibly Quinn.

My answer is as it's remained that Denver will be drafting the future quarterback of this franchise in 2012. Luck would be the ideal quarterback to draft, but more then likely it will be either Matt Barkley of USC or Lance Jones of Oklahoma.

Canmore
08-13-2011, 11:13 PM
I think Elway and Fox are big picture. Again, I dunno.

Cleaning up the D should help all involved.

A real live defense would go a long way toward turning this franchise in the direction of respectability. I'm hoping that getting Dumervil back and the addition of Miller will give us the semblance of a pass rush again. I'm wondering if Warren, Bunkley, Vickerson and Thomas are going to give us enough in the middle to stop the run so that a pass rush is a weapon. If we can't stop the bleeding, Miller and Doom are going to be rendered useless.

TXBRONC
08-13-2011, 11:16 PM
I don't know if that guy is currently on the roster. I don't think Orton or Quinn are it. Tebow is a maybe. I would like to find out if he is before spending another pick on a quarterback.

BeefStew25
08-13-2011, 11:18 PM
A quick aside: preseason football is like a hand job.

Tned
08-13-2011, 11:19 PM
I think Elway and Fox are big picture. Again, I dunno.

Cleaning up the D should help all involved.

I do think they are going to be big picture guys, but also with a sense of urgency. Fox, because some of the luster wore off finishing last in Carolina. The front office in general, because fan moral took a MAJOR beating during the McDaniels regime.


I have to disagree, I think the organization as I stated in another thread may not see that disdain there is for Orton, partially cause they don't want to believe it and also because they believe winning will somehow win the fans to their ideology sort-to-speak. But I believe when they do finally realize it that they'll be looking at all options outside of Orton, even possibly Quinn.

My answer is as it's remained that Denver will be drafting the future quarterback of this franchise in 2012. Luck would be the ideal quarterback to draft, but more then likely it will be either Matt Barkley of USC or Lance Jones of Oklahoma.

I had really hoped the Broncos would grab Mallet when he dropped so far after the stuff that came out in the combo. I realize there were a lot of holes to fill, but his passing skills are off the chart.

I don't believe that the fan perception of Orton will carry very much weight with Elway and company. In fact, I think Orton was correct when he said that winning is what will win over fans. So, I think all that Elway and company will be focused on his how they get back to the tradition of winning that had been the one constant of Bowlen's ownership.

While there are a lot of pieces that have to come together to win, obviously the QB is a major piece. If they think Orton is that guy, that can win in what Fox envisions the offense to be, then I don't think they will hesitate to play him even if he was universally hated by fans. At the same time, I don't think they will, or should, play Tebow or anyone else even if he was universally loved by fans. If fan sentiment guided those decisions, guys like BVP would have been starters.

Lancane
08-13-2011, 11:23 PM
I don't if that guy is currently on the roster. I don't think Orton or Quinn are it. Tebow is a maybe. I would like to find out if he is before spending another pick on a quarterback.

But we may not have that option TX, we really might not. I've watched several of the quarterbacks in this upcoming draft class. And let me tell you, do you remember how high I was on Bradford last year or even Cutler the year we drafted him? IMHO neither would have been drafted where they were in this upcoming class, they'd both be mid to late first round picks, of course there are those who will disagree, but there is a chance that even those that fall into the second are franchise capable.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-13-2011, 11:25 PM
Honestly, just the thought that they won't try to develop Tebow thoroughly annoys me. I really hope they do. They almost have to treat this like his rookie year since we're starting with a new coach and he had no offseason.

I don't like the idea of hoping we can be the next Baltimore Ravens team which has a D dominant enough to carry an average QB to the SB. Defenses like that are really rare.

I want a QB that can make plays, and I really believe Tebow can be that guy.

Lancane
08-13-2011, 11:29 PM
I do think they are going to be big picture guys, but also with a sense of urgency. Fox, because some of the luster wore off finishing last in Carolina. The front office in general, because fan moral took a MAJOR beating during the McDaniels regime.

I had really hoped the Broncos would grab Mallet when he dropped so far after the stuff that came out in the combo. I realize there were a lot of holes to fill, but his passing skills are off the chart.

I don't believe that the fan perception of Orton will carry very much weight with Elway and company. In fact, I think Orton was correct when he said that winning is what will win over fans. So, I think all that Elway and company will be focused on his how they get back to the tradition of winning that had been the one constant of Bowlen's ownership.

While there are a lot of pieces that have to come together to win, obviously the QB is a major piece. If they think Orton is that guy, that can win in what Fox envisions the offense to be, then I don't think they will hesitate to play him even if he was universally hated by fans. At the same time, I don't think they will, or should, play Tebow or anyone else even if he was universally loved by fans. If fan sentiment guided those decisions, guys like BVP would have been starters.

I completely agree on Mallet, the kid was and is first round talent and for the Patriots to get him where they did, it made me sick.

And I think you're missing my point Tned, I'm not suggesting that they go according to the fan's wishes rather then what they feel, I'm just stating that I believe Elway will hold to his 'involve the fans' ideology. After all the disdain of the fans nearly cost Bowlen, and no matter what Elway believes he still has a boss who's gross yearly intake is based solely off the fanbase and that as such the will of the fans will influence him more then some speculate...no matter what he's saying.

Tned
08-13-2011, 11:33 PM
I completely agree on Mallet, the kid was and is first round talent and for the Patriots to get him where they did, it made me sick.

And I think you're missing my point Tned, I'm not suggesting that they go according to the fan's wishes rather then what they feel, I'm just stating that I believe Elway will hold to his 'involve the fans' ideology. After all the disdain of the fans nearly cost Bowlen, and no matter what Elway believes he still has a boss who's gross yearly intake is based solely off the fanbase and that as such the will of the fans will influence him more then some speculate...no matter what he's saying.

I understand what you're saying, and you may be right. I just think that their commitment is to transparency, rather than catering to the fans. That assumes that catering to the fans and what they believe is the right path to winning diverge.

Lancane
08-13-2011, 11:34 PM
Honestly, just the thought that they won't try to develop Tebow thoroughly annoys me. I really hope they do. They almost have to treat this like his rookie year since we're starting with a new coach and he had no offseason.

I don't like the idea of hoping we can be the next Baltimore Ravens team which has a D dominant enough to carry an average QB to the SB. Defenses like that are really rare.

I want a QB that can make plays, and I really believe Tebow can be that guy.

No one really follows that blueprint anymore, and the reason is because that while it may lead to success, the success is minimal. That's why we don't see defensive juggernauts winning multiple championships, the league has really balanced out in regards to offensive or defensive dominance. I would rather be continual standout on both sides with a chance to win it year in and year out rather then be a one and done team that can not compete continually.

Lancane
08-13-2011, 11:37 PM
I understand what you're saying, and you may be right. I just think that their commitment is to transparency, rather than catering to the fans. That assumes that catering to the fans and what they believe is the right path to winning diverge.

Could be, I just don't see them winning the fans with Orton - no matter the record, I really do not...and sadly I think many of us on here know it. We could sign and start Matt Leinart or go with Quinn, even possibly Brett Farve and they would have a better chance of winning the fans then they would trying to win with Orton.

Canmore
08-13-2011, 11:38 PM
I understand what you're saying, and you may be right. I just think that their commitment is to transparency, rather than catering to the fans. That assumes that catering to the fans and what they believe is the right path to winning diverge.

If Elway and Fox were catering to the fans, Tebow would be running with the first team. When you talk about transparency, Elway is trying to bring the fan base back. Putting a winning product on the field or at least a competitive one, week in and week out will go a long way toward winning back the fans, even if Kyle is the quarterback.

Lancane
08-13-2011, 11:45 PM
If Elway and Fox were catering to the fans, Tebow would be running with the first team. When you talk about transparency, Elway is trying to bring the fan base back. Putting a winning product on the field or at least a competitive one, week in and week out will go a long way toward winning back the fans, even if Kyle is the quarterback.

And that is where I disagree, though I understand the practicality of such...I suppose that is what I believe as well in their places. But Orton right now is a polarizing figure in Denver sports, he's a reminder of McDaniels and of the trade in which brought him here which few wanted. Even Elway told the Denver Post before he officially took the reigns that "Cutler is not the type of quarterback you give up on". I don't think winning is enough, it might be for some...and I could be wrong, I've admitted being wrong before. As for being transparent, it's all well and good, but eventually somethings are not so transparent in terms of business with the base consumer of your products.

chazoe60
08-13-2011, 11:53 PM
When Orton came here I think most people felt much the way I did and that was "well, I didn't want the trade but since we got 2 firsts and this guy I guess Orton will do for a year". I think most people thought Orton would be a stopgap until we developed a guy.

Then we traded for Quinn and I thought we'd develop him. Then we drafted Tebow and I thought we'd develop him. Now it's going on three seasons and the stopgap guy, who has done nothing but throw for a bunch of yards and choke a lot, is still here. It's like were still being held hostage by McD and his horrible decisions.

Top that off with Orton's statements about how good he plays and how he is basically entitled to an unchallenged starter's role and I think a lot of people feel like I do and they just want this guy gone any way possible.

I honestly believe we are being forced into mediocrity at the most important position on the field.

Canmore
08-13-2011, 11:58 PM
And that is where I disagree, though I understand the practicality of such...I suppose that is what I believe as well in their places. But Orton right now is a polarizing figure in Denver sports, he's a reminder of McDaniels and of the trade in which brought him here which few wanted. Even Elway told the Denver Post before he officially took the reigns that "Cutler is not the type of quarterback you give up on". I don't think winning is enough, it might be for some...and I could be wrong, I've admitted being wrong before. As for being transparent, it's all well and good, but eventually somethings are not so transparent in terms of business with the base consumer of your products.

I feel Kyle is every bit as polarizing as Tebow. To start him is a huge decision. I for one, don't believe that Elway doesn't know or care how polarized the fan base is towards starting Tebow. What are we talking about, 80% want Tebow and 7% want Quinn. What does that leave Orton with, 13%. Starting Kyle represents everything the fans do not want to be reminded of for the last two seasons...losing.

I hear what you are saying, all to clearly, but putting a competitive product on the field this season, even with Kyle Orton, I feel will go a long way towards winning the fan base back. We need to be competitive now. Kyle is probably only going to be a Bronco this season, unless he changes his stripes especially with the game on the line.

RebelRocker
08-13-2011, 11:59 PM
Nope, hes currently enrolled in college. Probably in the state of California.

Ryan Lindley? LOL


IMHO, I think EFX are giving Tebow a chance to play in packages and such this year to "appease the fanbase". As a true Broncos fan, I want wins over "entertainment".

When it comes down to it, I think that EFX like Tebow, but they realize that they can't give this guy YEARS to develop and completely adapt their offense to him, just so they can see if he can play. That's the dumbest plan they could possibly go with. It'll just be a matter of them wanting "their guy" more than wanting to develop somebody they didn't draft, which is fine. Why should they be stuck with McD's leftovers?

Elway is a successful business man. He knows that winning will ultimately put the fans back in the stands. They will go with the best QB on the roster(Orton) this year and after this season, I can guarantee you that they will go hard after "their guy".

chazoe60
08-14-2011, 12:06 AM
Ryan Lindley? LOL


IMHO, I think EFX are giving Tebow a chance to play in packages and such this year to "appease the fanbase". As a true Broncos fan, I want wins over "entertainment".

When it comes down to it, I think that EFX like Tebow, but they realize that they can't give this guy YEARS to develop and completely adapt their offense to him, just so they can see if he can play. That's the dumbest plan they could possibly go with. It'll just be a matter of them wanting "their guy" more than wanting to develop somebody they didn't draft, which is fine. Why should they be stuck with McD's leftovers?

Elway is a successful business man. He knows that winning will ultimately put the fans back in the stands. They will go with the best QB on the roster(Orton) this year and after this season, I can guarantee you that they will go hard after "their guy".


I firmly believe that if we are in the top 5 of the draft, which lets face it there is a very good chance we are (schedule is brutal and how much have we improved really?) Elway will throw the kitchen sink at getting Luck. If a team like Cincy or Carolina have the #1 pick then we have a shot at trading up and getting him, if it's Buff or SF then we could offer them our 1st round pick for the next ten years and it won't be enough.

One of three guys will be our QB next season IMHO Luck, Barkley, or Jones. Obviously things can change, those guys could have bad seasons and drop in the eyes of scouts. But, the one change I feel has very little chance of happening is Orton impressing to the point of earning an extension.

Broncos4life
08-14-2011, 12:07 AM
FWIW, my answer to him was 60/40 yes.

I think there is a slim chance that Orton will be that guy. If John Fox creates the running game that he promises (most sophisticated in NFL), and if the O-line gels into a dominant force as some think, AND if the defense becomes a middle of the pack D, then I think Orton could do well here. They may very well see his upside (decent accuracy, limited turnovers) as out weighing his downside (not a playmaker, unlikely to lead team back from behind).

Tebow is just such an unknown right now. I still believe that he could be the long term solution, but losing this offseason really hurt him. The best chance for him to become the long terms answer is for Orton to get hurt (which I hope doesn't happen) or for the broncos to go out and lose 4 of the first 6 or so (which I hope doesn't happen), so that he likely gets a chance to work with the first team and play in live game situations.

I have to disagree with the thought of Orton having a future in Denver Tned. I do think fox will put together a tough and respectable running game, not to mention :defense:. Sure Orton would thrive in that situation(Chicago), but we all know what we have with this game manager. Plus, no matter how good your D is, or how well you run the ball, there are times when a QB must put a team on his back and just win..... That is not on his job resume. Orton also does not want to be a backup. He has stated this one way or another through the media.
People need to realize that Orton played the game manager role well with Chicago, but that the Bears were already established with a running game and defense when he got there. This rebuilding with the Broncos is not going to happen in one season. At best this is an competitive 8-8 team, that is why part of me can't understand why an average guy with a 1 year contract is the starting QB. Then it makes sense that if hes gonna be here that Tebow should work hard to take the starting position....

I think that if Tebow is given a shot he will succeed, however Tebow has a lot of to work on. If EFX feel that Tebow is not in the teams long term plans, they will probably try to trade him and go looking through the draft. That will not be in Ortons interests, because if they resign Orton and do draft a QB to be a QBOTF, then here we go again with another QB contoversy.

So with that said, and the fact that Elway and crew were interviewing and evaluating QBs in this past draft(even with a so called smokescreen strategy taken into consideration), I am 99% sure that Orton will be playing for another team next season. And with the way 31 other teams reacted with him being on the trading block(only 2 being mildly interested and one only showing interest as a back up plan to Kevin Kolb) I wouldn't be surprised to see him backing up another guy. That may well be all thats available for him next season. He should have taken the Miami opportunity and restructured. It was a good situation for him....

Canmore
08-14-2011, 12:10 AM
I firmly believe that if we are in the top 5 of the draft, which lets face it there is a very good chance we are (schedule is brutal and how much have we improved really?) Elway will throw the kitchen sink at getting Luck. If a team like Cincy or Carolina have the #1 pick then we have a shot at trading up and getting him, if it's Buff or SF then we could offer them our 1st round pick for the next ten years and it won't be enough.

One of three guys will be our QB next season IMHO Luck, Barkley, or Jones. Obviously things can change, those guys could have bad seasons and drop in the eyes of scouts. But, the one change I feel has very little chance of happening is Orton impressing to the point of earning an extension.

A tiger can't change his stripes. We have seven years of tape on Kyle Orton, he is who he is, a game manager who doesn't turn the ball over, but he doesn't make the game changing play.

Tned
08-14-2011, 12:11 AM
If Elway and Fox were catering to the fans, Tebow would be running with the first team. When you talk about transparency, Elway is trying to bring the fan base back. Putting a winning product on the field or at least a competitive one, week in and week out will go a long way toward winning back the fans, even if Kyle is the quarterback.

Exactly as I see it.

RebelRocker
08-14-2011, 12:13 AM
I firmly believe that if we are in the top 5 of the draft, which lets face it there is a very good chance we are (schedule is brutal and how much have we improved really?) Elway will throw the kitchen sink at getting Luck. If a team like Cincy or Carolina have the #1 pick then we have a shot at trading up and getting him, if it's Buff or SF then we could offer them our 1st round pick for the next ten years and it won't be enough.

One of three guys will be our QB next season IMHO Luck, Barkley, or Jones. Obviously things can change, those guys could have bad seasons and drop in the eyes of scouts. But, the one change I feel has very little chance of happening is Orton impressing to the point of earning an extension.

I totally agree with you, Chaz. If we're picking in the top 5 next year and a team like Carolina or Jacksonville has the first pick, I think EFX finds a way to get the #1 pick to draft Luck.


If you had to ask me right now what our record will be for this season, I'm predicting 6-10, MAYBE 7-9 and we're picking #10 in the draft next year. If that's the scenario, then we're picking whoever we like better between Barkley and Jones(or if one of them is taken, we just take the last of the 3 remaining on the board).

EFX doesn't want another "project QB". They want their Bradford, Ryan, Flacco type QB. They want a guy that could step in, not turn the ball over and get us in the playoffs right from the get go. Luck, Barkley and or Jones can probably do that, with our running game and defense being improved.

chazoe60
08-14-2011, 12:23 AM
I have to disagree with the thought of Orton having a future in Denver Tned. I do think fox will put together a tough and respectable running game, not to mention :defense:. Sure Orton would thrive in that situation(Chicago), but we all know what we have with this game manager. Plus, no matter how good your D is, or how well you run the ball, there are times when a QB must put a team on his back and just win..... That is not on his job resume. Orton also does not want to be a backup. He has stated this one way or another through the media.
People need to realize that Orton played the game manager role well with Chicago, but that the Bears were already established with a running game and defense when he got there. This rebuilding with the Broncos is not going to happen in one season. At best this is an competitive 8-8 team, that is why part of me can't understand why an average guy with a 1 year contract is the starting QB. Then it makes sense that if hes gonna be here that Tebow should work hard to take the starting position....

I think that if Tebow is given a shot he will succeed, however Tebow has a lot of to work on. If EFX feel that Tebow is not in the teams long term plans, they will probably try to trade him and go looking through the draft. That will not be in Ortons interests, because if they resign Orton and do draft a QB to be a QBOTF, then here we go again with another QB contoversy.

So with that said, and the fact that Elway and crew were interviewing and evaluating QBs in this past draft(even with a so called smokescreen strategy taken into consideration), I am 99% sure that Orton will be playing for another team next season. And with the way 31 other teams reacted with him being on the trading block(only 2 being mildly interested and one only showing interest as a back up plan to Kevin Kolb) I wouldn't be surprised to see him backing up another guy. That may well be all thats available for him next season. He should have taken the Miami opportunity and restructured. It was a good situation for him....


Orton has shown a tremendous amount of arrogance during this entire situation. That is one of the things that I can't stand about him. It's fine to be confident, but to be blindly arrogant is another thing.

I have never heard him say anything about the things he needs to work on or say a single word about the improvements he needs to make. After the second KC game last year, a game in which any other starting QB in the NFL gets us a win, Orton's first comment was "We need to play better." That pissed me off considering how well the other aspects of the team played that day. And that seems to be a chronic thing with Orton. He thinks he is light years better than he actually is, maybe he reads his few fans' posts. :laugh:

He may very well have put himself right into a backup role next year by nixing the Dolphins trade.

Lets look at which teams would take Orton now as their starter.
SF
Mia
Cincy (probably only for this season though as they like Dalton a lot)
Sea (probably would have traded for him if the price was lower, say a 5th round pic or so)
Buff (though Fitzpatrick and Orton is pretty close really)


Now some would say teams like Tenn, Was, and Minn would take him also but I really don't think so.
Tenn has Locker and the perfect mentor for him in Hassleback, they wouldn't take Orton if we gave him to them for free.
Was? Orton can not run a bootleg and Shanny would rip his lungs out after two failed 4th qtr comebacks or 5 straight 3 and outs. I was laughing my ass off when people kept saying Washington would take a long look at Orton. Shanny wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.
Minn? They like McNabb and their rookie. No way would they rather have Orton with a rookie behind him, they see the mess we're in.

Really I think that is how it stands for Orton and how it will look for him in FA next offseason. And a lot of those teams like SF and Buff will be drafting QBs and that will shrink Orton's starting options even more.

He's going to be face with a harsh reality next offseason.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 12:29 AM
Orton has shown a tremendous amount of arrogance during this entire situation. That is one of the things that I can't stand about him. It's fine to be confident, but to be blindly arrogant is another thing.

I have never heard him say anything about the things he needs to work on or say a single word about the improvements he needs to make. After the second KC game last year, a game in which any other starting QB in the NFL gets us a win, Orton's first comment was "We need to play better." That pissed me off considering how well the other aspects of the team played that day. And that seems to be a chronic thing with Orton. He thinks he is light years better than he actually is, maybe he reads his few fans' posts. :laugh:

He may very well have put himself right into a backup role next year by nixing the Dolphins trade.

Lets look at which teams would take Orton now as their starter.
SF
Mia
Cincy (probably only for this season though as they like Dalton a lot)
Sea (probably would have traded for him if the price was lower, say a 5th round pic or so)
Buff (though Fitzpatrick and Orton is pretty close really)


Now some would say teams like Tenn, Was, and Minn would take him also but I really don't think so.
Tenn has Locker and the perfect mentor for him in Hassleback, they wouldn't take Orton if we gave him to them for free.
Was? Orton can not run a bootleg and Shanny would rip his lungs out after two failed 4th qtr comebacks or 5 straight 3 and outs. I was laughing my ass off when people kept saying Washington would take a long look at Orton. Shanny wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.
Minn? They like McNabb and their rookie. No way would they rather have Orton with a rookie behind him, they see the mess we're in.

Really I think that is how it stands for Orton and how it will look for him in FA next offseason. And a lot of those teams like SF and Buff will be drafting QBs and that will shrink Orton's starting options even more.

He's going to be face with a harsh reality next offseason.

Lot of truth in this statement. I think he should have made the Miami gig work.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 12:52 AM
I totally agree with you, Chaz. If we're picking in the top 5 next year and a team like Carolina or Jacksonville has the first pick, I think EFX finds a way to get the #1 pick to draft Luck.


If you had to ask me right now what our record will be for this season, I'm predicting 6-10, MAYBE 7-9 and we're picking #10 in the draft next year. If that's the scenario, then we're picking whoever we like better between Barkley and Jones(or if one of them is taken, we just take the last of the 3 remaining on the board).

EFX doesn't want another "project QB". They want their Bradford, Ryan, Flacco type QB. They want a guy that could step in, not turn the ball over and get us in the playoffs right from the get go. Luck, Barkley and or Jones can probably do that, with our running game and defense being improved.

Agreed. Elway and Fox are not tied to the previous regimes selections. I think they want their guy. An improved defense and running game and a quarterback that won't turn the ball over. It's no wonder that they are looking at starting Kyle Orton this season. Kyle does not make a lot of plays but he is careful with the football, to a fault.

I think the starting quarterback in 2012 hasn't been drafted yet. It appears Elway wants Luck. Unfortunately, I don't think we are going to suck enough for Luck to be a possibility.

Broncos4life
08-14-2011, 12:58 AM
Orton has shown a tremendous amount of arrogance during this entire situation. That is one of the things that I can't stand about him. It's fine to be confident, but to be blindly arrogant is another thing.

I have never heard him say anything about the things he needs to work on or say a single word about the improvements he needs to make. After the second KC game last year, a game in which any other starting QB in the NFL gets us a win, Orton's first comment was "We need to play better." That pissed me off considering how well the other aspects of the team played that day. And that seems to be a chronic thing with Orton. He thinks he is light years better than he actually is, maybe he reads his few fans' posts. :laugh:

He may very well have put himself right into a backup role next year by nixing the Dolphins trade.

Lets look at which teams would take Orton now as their starter.
SF
Mia
Cincy (probably only for this season though as they like Dalton a lot)
Sea (probably would have traded for him if the price was lower, say a 5th round pic or so)
Buff (though Fitzpatrick and Orton is pretty close really)


Now some would say teams like Tenn, Was, and Minn would take him also but I really don't think so.
Tenn has Locker and the perfect mentor for him in Hassleback, they wouldn't take Orton if we gave him to them for free.
Was? Orton can not run a bootleg and Shanny would rip his lungs out after two failed 4th qtr comebacks or 5 straight 3 and outs. I was laughing my ass off when people kept saying Washington would take a long look at Orton. Shanny wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.
Minn? They like McNabb and their rookie. No way would they rather have Orton with a rookie behind him, they see the mess we're in.

Really I think that is how it stands for Orton and how it will look for him in FA next offseason. And a lot of those teams like SF and Buff will be drafting QBs and that will shrink Orton's starting options even more.

He's going to be face with a harsh reality next offseason.

Great post man. You basically posted everything I was thinking, but didn't post.

I don't even think Buffalo would take him even if they didn't draft a QB next draft. Watching Fitzpatrick play tonight, it looks like the Bills may be fine at QB.Maybe they start adding some pieces around him. Plus they were running a lot of wildcat. If Gailey plans on mixing up his offenses like that, there is no way Orton ends up there. He would just throw a fit!

I too laughed at the possibility of Orton going to Washington. He just doesn't fit there!

I'll tell you what though. Had Orton been there when Shanny got hired, they both would have made for some great sideline drama! Shanny would have been snapping on him just like Griese!

SF just looks like they are pulling a suck for Luck campaign. They looked horrendous. Denver at least looks like they are trying to win with the FA they went after and the way they played on Thursday night.

Regarding Ortons attitude, I do remember him stating that the team needs to play better after that KC loss. I was like did he just really say that?!! I kinda want to look at every interview that Orton has given and look to see if he ever admits that he needs to play better. But I won't waste my time, because I know I will not find anything.

It really does say a lot about who you are when only two teams are interested in your work, and there are 4 or 5 other QBs on the market that get signed right away. Like you stated, Kyle will see reality next season when there are no teams in line with a starting job available. His future is on the bench.

chazoe60
08-14-2011, 12:59 AM
Agreed. Elway and Fox are not tied to the previous regimes selections. I think they want their guy. An improved defense and running game and a quarterback that won't turn the ball over. It's no wonder that they are looking at starting Kyle Orton this season. Kyle does not make a lot of plays but he is careful with the football, to a fault.

I think the starting quarterback in 2012 hasn't been drafted yet. It appears Elway wants Luck. Unfortunately, I don't think we are going to suck enough for Luck to be a possibility.

I hateto say it Canmore but the possibility of us sucking enough to draft Luck is definitely there. I look at our schedule and i generously see five wins. The inly game I'd be confident enough to bet on would be the Cincy game. It is not goung to be a pretty season I fear. I could be wrong.

Northman
08-14-2011, 01:02 AM
I have no idea honestly. Ive only seen 3 games from Tebow which matches many good QB's of past and present. Orton i dont believe is as he is a journeyman and average stop gap. Quinn? Cant really say as he hasnt had a chance to play with the starters for this team. In Cleveland he had moments and then not so many great moments but it was a growing time for him as well. Just up in the air right now.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 01:07 AM
I hateto say it Canmore but the possibility of us sucking enough to draft Luck is definitely there. I look at our schedule and i generously see five wins. The inly game I'd be confident enough to bet on would be the Cincy game. It is not goung to be a pretty season I fear. I could be wrong.

I think we are just going to be good enough to miss out. We have a brutal schedule. With that said, I've got us penciled in for six wins. About two to many for the Luck sweepstakes. Some times I'm hedging more towards five but that still leaves us at the ball without a dance partner.

I don't think this season is going to be pretty. We may be favored to win one game this season, unless a miracle happens in Dove Valley. Still, I think we are going to just miss out.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:09 AM
Nope, hes currently enrolled in college. Probably in the state of California.

If we win 6 or more games with noodle arm then no chance we get him.

Several teams will be needing a FCQB and will break the bank on a trade or simply pick him ahead of us.


Raiders, Browns, Seachickens, Niners, Redskins, Miami ect. And dont be suprised if teams like Minn, Tenn or someone would change course just to get a guy like Luck.


We would have to trade our whole draft almost because top 5 picks get paid 1/3 of what they used to. Instead of 80 mill contracts guys are now getting about 25 mill contracts and that alone will be extremely tempting.

chazoe60
08-14-2011, 01:15 AM
If we win 6 or more games with noodle arm then no chance we get him.

Several teams will be needing a FCQB and will break the bank on a trade or simply pick him ahead of us.


Raiders, Browns, Seachickens, Niners, Redskins, Miami ect. And dont be suprised if teams like Minn, Tenn or someone would change course just to get a guy like Luck.


We would have to trade our whole draft almost because top 5 picks get paid 1/3 of what they used to. Instead of 80 mill contracts guys are now getting about 25 mill contracts and that alone will be extremely tempting.

That reminds me, to be fair I should have had the Raiders on my list of teams that wohld take Orton. In fact I could see them as one of his few starting oportunities next season. If he has even clise to as good a year in the long ball department I could see good Ol Al salivating all over him.

Al loves to steal from the Broncos too. I could see that dumb old man really thinking he was sticking it to us by signing Orton. That would make my day to see Raiders fans saddled with the ol' boring one. :laugh:

Lancane
08-14-2011, 01:19 AM
If we win 6 or more games with noodle arm then no chance we get him.

Several teams will be needing a FCQB and will break the bank on a trade or simply pick him ahead of us.


Raiders, Browns, Seachickens, Niners, Redskins, Miami ect. And dont be suprised if teams like Minn, Tenn or someone would change course just to get a guy like Luck.


We would have to trade our whole draft almost because top 5 picks get paid 1/3 of what they used to. Instead of 80 mill contracts guys are now getting about 25 mill contracts and that alone will be extremely tempting.

That's the thing I find funny DB, people keep on pointing to Luck as the only real franchise quarterback in the draft, and I'm pointing out that were forgetting Barkley, Jones, Cousins and Lindley to name a few. I'm not going to get my hopes up for Luck, the chances are slim...I'm leaning towards Barkley at this point.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:19 AM
That reminds me, to be fair I should have had the Raiders on my list of teams that wohld take Orton. In fact I could see them as one of his few starting oportunities next season. If he has even clise to as good a year in the long ball department I could see good Ol Al salivating all over him.

Al loves to steal from the Broncos too. I could see that dumb old man really thinking he was sticking it to us by signing Orton. That would make my day to see Raiders fans saddled with the ol' boring one. :laugh:

If Orton plays out the whole year then that would make him a URFA next year wouldnt it? So, I'm not sure we would even get anything for him. We have to dump him now to help the team. Miami was willing to give us a 2nd. So...now we get nothing?

That sux...


As much as I think Quinn is a solid backup I think we should try and shop him for a 5th or 6th since Orton isnt going anywhere. Tebow could really benifit from learning from a veteran willing to help and he hasny had that since he's been here.

RebelRocker
08-14-2011, 01:20 AM
Agreed. Elway and Fox are not tied to the previous regimes selections. I think they want their guy. An improved defense and running game and a quarterback that won't turn the ball over. It's no wonder that they are looking at starting Kyle Orton this season. Kyle does not make a lot of plays but he is careful with the football, to a fault.

I think the starting quarterback in 2012 hasn't been drafted yet. It appears Elway wants Luck. Unfortunately, I don't think we are going to suck enough for Luck to be a possibility.


That's exactly how I feel, Canmore. We'd all love to get Luck, but it's so unlikely to think that we'd even be the position to get him. That's why I said in a previous reply that I think it's going to come down to which of the other two(Barkley/Jones) that we like better or whichever one is left by the time we pick.

Personally, I would take Barkley over Jones because he's younger, has a great skill set and plays in a pro style offense at USC. He's more pro ready than Jones, at this point. That't not to stay that Jones could be the opening day starter for the team that drafts him, but I think Barkley will be more comfortable as a starter his rookie year than Jones would.

chazoe60
08-14-2011, 01:22 AM
BTW when I said "attending college probably in the state of California" I was referring to more guys than just Luck.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:23 AM
That's the thing I find funny DB, people keep on pointing to Luck as the only real franchise quarterback in the draft, and I'm pointing out that were forgetting Barkley, Jones, Cousins and Lindley to name a few. I'm not going to get my hopes up for Luck, the chances are slim...I'm leaning towards Barkley at this point.

I understand and who knows one of those guys might be the next Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers. But Luck to me is the most polished QB since Peyton Manning and is more of a sure thing. If you're going to risk a top 5 pick then I think it has to be for Luck.

If Tebow gets his chance and shows flashes then maybe we would consider one of those guys in the 2nd or 3rd. Orton will be gone next year for sure if he is beat out by Tebow at any point this year.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 01:23 AM
[/B]


That's exactly how I feel, Canmore. We'd all love to get Luck, but it's so unlikely to think that we'd even be the position to get him. That's why I said in a previous reply that I think it's going to come down to which of the other two(Barkley/Jones) that we like better or whichever one is left by the time we pick.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jones becomes an odds on favorite, A) Bowlen is an Oklahoma alumni himself, B) He would remind people of a more precise Jake Plummer and C) He has that mustache and Bronco fans seemed to get enamored with facial hair! :lol:

Canmore
08-14-2011, 01:25 AM
That's the thing I find funny DB, people keep on pointing to Luck as the only real franchise quarterback in the draft, and I'm pointing out that were forgetting Barkley, Jones, Cousins and Lindley to name a few. I'm not going to get my hopes up for Luck, the chances are slim...I'm leaning towards Barkley at this point.

There are a number of names being bantered around as franchise quarterbacks in the 2012 draft but Elway, if memory serves correctly has really only mentioned Luck by name and he is being toughted as the best prospect since Payton Manning. I think Elway is really interested in this kid. I just don't think we are going to be bad enough to be in the running. Bad yes, bad enough, no.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:26 AM
Agreed. Elway and Fox are not tied to the previous regimes selections. I think they want their guy. An improved defense and running game and a quarterback that won't turn the ball over. It's no wonder that they are looking at starting Kyle Orton this season. Kyle does not make a lot of plays but he is careful with the football, to a fault.

I think the starting quarterback in 2012 hasn't been drafted yet. It appears Elway wants Luck. Unfortunately, I don't think we are going to suck enough for Luck to be a possibility.

I agree and I think Elway is foaming at the mouth to get him. I could see Elway going ALL-IN on this.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:28 AM
I can see this team winning 5-7 games this year. Not what I want but that seems realistic.

chazoe60
08-14-2011, 01:28 AM
The only guys in that class that I've seen more than just a little bit of are Luck, Barkley, and Foles.

I actually like Foles a lot. He's always impressed me when I watch him play. Not more than the other two I mentioned, but he's not so far behind that I would be disappointed.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 01:29 AM
I understand and who knows one of those guys might be the next Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers. But Luck to me is the most polished QB since Peyton Manning and is more of a sure thing. If you're going to risk a top 5 pick then I think it has to be for Luck.

If Tebow gets his chance and shows flashes then maybe we would consider one of those guys in the 2nd or 3rd. Orton will be gone next year for sure if he is beat out by Tebow at any point this year.

DB, the NDS recently graded the top quarterbacks for the 2012 Draft. Andrew Luck of Stanford was graded as the top overall prospect and a top three pick. Matt Barkley of USC was graded as the fifth overall prospect and a top five pick, and Landry 'Lance' Jones of Oklahoma was rated as the eleventh best prospect and a top ten pick.

Luck is the most polished pro-style quarterback in the draft, but you need to watch film on Matt Barkley and Landry Jones before you write either one of them off, and all three are juniors...there are some seniors in the mix as well, such as Cousins and Lindley and they've both been graded rather high with a chance to break into the first round. Foles is another who is on the radar.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:30 AM
The only guys in that class that I've seen more than just a little bit of are Luck, Barkley, and Foles.

I actually like Foles a lot. He's always impressed me when I watch him play. Not more than the other two I mentioned, but he's not so far behind that I would be disappointed.

I think we would be wise to stay far away from Barkley. He has the most bust potential out of them all.

USC QB's have not been lighting up the NFL at all.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 01:33 AM
There are a number of names being bantered around as franchise quarterbacks in the 2012 draft but Elway, if memory serves correctly has really only mentioned Luck by name and he is being toughted as the best prospect since Payton Manning. I think Elway is really interested in this kid. I just don't think we are going to be bad enough to be in the running. Bad yes, bad enough, no.

Of course he's mentioned Luck, but how many quarterbacks of this past draft did we look at? I don't really think it matter who Elway mentions, of course if we are within reaching room then Elway will do whatever to get it done. But don't count out those others so fast.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 01:34 AM
[/B]


That's exactly how I feel, Canmore. We'd all love to get Luck, but it's so unlikely to think that we'd even be the position to get him. That's why I said in a previous reply that I think it's going to come down to which of the other two(Barkley/Jones) that we like better or whichever one is left by the time we pick.

Personally, I would take Barkley over Jones because he's younger, has a great skill set and plays in a pro style offense at USC. He's more pro ready than Jones, at this point. That't not to stay that Jones could be the opening day starter for the team that drafts him, but I think Barkley will be more comfortable as a starter his rookie year than Jones would.

I honestly don't know what Elway will do. This is a whole season away. I may have us penciled in for six wins but where do we actually end up. I really believe Elway wants Luck, but I don't think we are going to be that bad. Still, with as little depth as we appear to have an injury or two may rock the boat. Will Elway "settle" for Barkley or Jones or...There is still Tebow. Time will tell.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:39 AM
Here's how Barkley stacks up against some of the popular USC QB's




PA

PC

INT

NYG

Pct.

TD



1. Carson Palmer

1569

927

49

11818

.591

72



2. Matt Leinart

1245

807

23

10693

.648

99



3. Rob Johnson

1046

676

28

8472

.646

58



4. Rodney Peete

1081

630

42

8225

.583

54



5. John David Booty

832

518

21

6125

.623

55



6. Matt Barkley

729

447

26

5526

.613

41


USC CAREER TOTAL OFFENSE LEADERS (Includes bowl games)






PLAYS

RUSH

PASS

TOTAL



1. Carson Palmer

1824

-197

11818

11621



2. Matt Leinart

1477

-70

10693

10623



3. Rodney Peete

1371

415

8225

8640



4. Rob Johnson

1305

-576

8472

7896



5. Charles White

1149

6245

-5

6240



6. John David Booty

893

-180

6125

5945



7. Matt Barkley

808

-55

5526

5471



So John Booty only had 90 more plays and his stats are more impressive.
14 More TD's and 5 less INT's.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 01:40 AM
I think we would be wise to stay far away from Barkley. He has the most bust potential out of them all.

USC QB's have not been lighting up the NFL at all.

Sanchez isn't doing too badly and Carroll is no longer running that program. And before Elway how many great quarterbacks did Stanford produce? Look at Jim Kelley, he was from Miami and the quarterbacks they usually produced were utter failures.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 01:41 AM
Of course he's mentioned Luck, but how many quarterbacks of this past draft did we look at? I don't really think it matter who Elway mentions, of course if we are within reaching room then Elway will do whatever to get it done. But don't count out those others so fast.

You have a very good point. We looked a lot of quarterbacks. I think we are going to look at a lot of quarterbacks in this upcoming draft and we are going to pull the trigger on one of them. I just think at this point in 2011 that Elway is really looking at Luck. Just my opinion. A lot of things can change and will before the draft of 2012. I'm certainly not counting anyone out.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 01:43 AM
Here's how Barkley stacks up against some of the popular USC QB's




PA

PC

INT

NYG

Pct.

TD



1. Carson Palmer

1569

927

49

11818

.591

72



2. Matt Leinart

1245

807

23

10693

.648

99



3. Rob Johnson

1046

676

28

8472

.646

58



4. Rodney Peete

1081

630

42

8225

.583

54



5. John David Booty

832

518

21

6125

.623

55



6. Matt Barkley

729

447

26

5526

.613

41


USC CAREER TOTAL OFFENSE LEADERS (Includes bowl games)






PLAYS

RUSH

PASS

TOTAL



1. Carson Palmer

1824

-197

11818

11621



2. Matt Leinart

1477

-70

10693

10623



3. Rodney Peete

1371

415

8225

8640



4. Rob Johnson

1305

-576

8472

7896



5. Charles White

1149

6245

-5

6240



6. John David Booty

893

-180

6125

5945



7. Matt Barkley

808

-55

5526

5471



So John Booty only had 90 more plays and his stats are more impressive.
14 More TD's and 5 less INT's.

DB, you know numbers don't mean shit bro...I'm telling you I've watched Barkley and there is something about him, his poise under pressure and his ability to check-down...I don't know, but I don't see him failing with the right team.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:43 AM
Sanchez isn't doing too badly and Carroll is no longer running that program. And before Elway how many great quarterbacks did Stanford produce? Look at Jim Kelley, he was from Miami and the quarterbacks they usually produced were utter failures.


That's why I'm not impressed in the least if a QB comes from a big name school or not.


Sanchez is playing on one of the best defenses in the NFL and Rex Ryan is relentless and demands a Superbowl. We need that kind of attitude here in Denver, SB or bust. Rex would light a fire under passive Orton and demand Tebow play at a high level.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:45 AM
DB, you know numbers don't mean shit bro...I'm telling you I've watched Barkley and there is something about him, his poise under pressure and his ability to check-down...I don't know, but I don't see him failing with the right team.

Well I live in Cali and see Barkley every Saturday. From what I have seen he looks like Claussen II. But that's just my opinion.

Who knows, maybe he will be a great QB but right now he seems to be a product of the system at USC and nothing special.

I have been wrong before though.

sneakers
08-14-2011, 01:48 AM
Brett Favre.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 01:48 AM
That's why I'm not impressed in the least if a QB comes from a big name school or not.


Sanchez is playing on one of the best defenses in the NFL and Rex Ryan is relentless and demands a Superbowl. We need that kind of attitude here in Denver, SB or bust. Rex would light a fire under passive Orton and demand Tebow play at a high level.

Remember when I said Cutler was going to be the best quarterback of his draft class? Everyone laughed and said bullshit. Then suddenly he's moving up boards and making noise, still some said he'd be a bust, and I told them that Leinart and Young would be, but not Cutler. Point is that I see something in Barkley as I do with a number of quarterbacks in this draft. I see potentially five or six possible franchise quarterbacks, and a few others who may break into the mix in the upcoming draft.

I don't know why people hate on USC, I agree that big programs tend to produce highly touted quarterbacks that are failures...but Barkley will be different, at least that is my opinion. But as you said in your post about being wrong...I could be as well.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:55 AM
Remember when I said Cutler was going to be the best quarterback of his draft class? Everyone laughed and said bullshit. Then suddenly he's moving up boards and making noise, still some said he'd be a bust, and I told them that Leinart and Young would be, but not Cutler. Point is that I see something in Barkley as I do with a number of quarterbacks in this draft. I see potentially five or six possible franchise quarterbacks, and a few others who may break into the mix in the upcoming draft.

I don't know why people hate on USC, I agree that big programs tend to produce highly touted quarterbacks that are failures...but Barkley will be different, at least that is my opinion. But as you said in your post about being wrong...I could be as well.

I remember Cutler tearing up the combine and heard massive reviews from guys like Mayock. Young had bust wrote all over him and I was never high on the guy. All I can remember was I had hoped somehow we would get Cutler and we did. I was shocked when Oakland passed on him!

I really dont think Cutler snuck up on anyone. If he could do what he did to teams while he was playing for Vandy then he could do it in the NFL. That's why I'm more interested in seeing QB's at smaller schools light it up.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 01:56 AM
Of course we could end up trading for McGee from Dallas or possibly Caleb Hanie from Chicago making this whole discussion moot.

:lol:

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 01:59 AM
Of course we could end up trading for McGee from Dallas or possibly Caleb Hanie from Chicago making this whole discussion moot.

:lol:

Or, Orton could get his leg snapped in preseason and Tebow takes us to a SB. :laugh:

RebelRocker
08-14-2011, 02:03 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Jones becomes an odds on favorite, A) Bowlen is an Oklahoma alumni himself, B) He would remind people of a more precise Jake Plummer and C) He has that mustache and Bronco fans seemed to get enamored with facial hair! :lol:

I was just thinking that when I posted my last reply, Lancane. You bring up one very interesting point about Jones.

Bowlen is an OU alum and I'm sure there's connections to the FO and the school. Stoops was considered on the short list of coaches we wanted to look at a few years ago before we hired McD.

When you think about certain guys and where they go, you kind of think of where they go based on their looks. Landry Jones does look like a Broncos QB to me, like Plummer. I could see Jones going for the "mountain man" look, :lol:.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 02:06 AM
I was just thinking that when I posted my last reply, Lancane. You bring up one very interesting point about Jones.

Bowlen is an OU alum and I'm sure there's connections to the FO and the school. Stoops was considered on the short list of coaches we wanted to look at a few years ago before we hired McD.

When you think about certain guys and where they go, you kind of think of where they go based on their looks. Landry Jones does look like a Broncos QB to me, like Plummer. I could see Jones going for the "mountain man" look, :lol:.

I could certainly live with someone who wins as many games as Jake did, AFCCG aside.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 02:07 AM
I remember Cutler tearing up the combine and heard massive reviews from guys like Mayock. Young had bust wrote all over him and I was never high on the guy. All I can remember was I had hoped somehow we would get Cutler and we did. I was shocked when Oakland passed on him!

I really dont think Cutler snuck up on anyone. If he could do what he did to teams while he was playing for Vandy then he could do it in the NFL. That's why I'm more interested in seeing QB's at smaller schools light it up.

I think you and I discussed this before, the ratio of pro quarterback successes from bigger programs compared to smaller ones more then once. Which is sort of funny because when you look at the big schools, you have Oklahoma with Jones and USC with Barkley, then Andrew Luck from Stanford, a big school but small program. Of those chasing the top three, you have Ryan Lindley of San Diego State (Small school and program), Kirk Cousins of Michigan State (Big school, weak program), Ryan Tannehill of Texas A&M (Big school and program) Brandon Weeden of Oklahoma State (Big school and program), Chandler Harnish of Northern Illinois (Small school and program), Nick Foles of Arizona (Big school, weak program) and B.J. Coleman of Chattanooga (Small school and program). I'm pretty high on Lindley, he's from a pro-style system, with a howitzer arm and pretty big upside. Coleman and Harnish are interesting prospects as well, though I'm bigger on Cousins who in my mind is the most polished quarterback behind Luck in the draft. So I still think much like you do, but I also know that there are exceptions to the big school rule; Jim Kelley, Troy Aikman and so forth.

RebelRocker
08-14-2011, 02:10 AM
I could certainly live with someone who wins as many games as Jake did, AFCCG aside.

I second that notion.

Again, with an improved running game and defense, you can bring Jones along slowly while he starts.

We're going to look a lot like Baltimore a few years ago, in that scenario.

Nothing wrong with that:beer:

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 02:11 AM
I could certainly live with someone who wins as many games as Jake did, AFCCG aside.

As hyped up as Orton was of being a winner it sure isnt transitioning here in Denver.

Plummer at least seemed to become a better QB once he came to Denver. I know Ortons stats have seemed to get better with pass happy McD and having WR's like BMarsh, Royal and Llyod sure have helped. But Orton hasnt been winning and that's the most important stat. Plummer at least won for us.

claymore
08-14-2011, 02:15 AM
As hyped up as Orton was such a winner it sure isnt transitioning here in Denver.

Plummer at least seemed to become a better QB once he came to Denver. I know Ortons stats have seemed to get better with pass happy McD and having WR's like BMarsh, Royal and Llyod sure have helped. But Orton hasnt been winning and that's the most important stat. Plummer at least won for us.

The difference is coaching. Plummer was a terrible QB, but Shanahan knew how to milk his athleticism.

McD was a terrible HC, play caller, and OC. The guy is an idiot.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 02:18 AM
As hyped up as Orton was such a winner it sure isnt transitioning here in Denver.

Plummer at least seemed to become a better QB once he came to Denver. I know Ortons stats have seemed to get better with pass happy McD and having WR's like BMarsh, Royal and Llyod sure have helped. But Orton hasnt been winning and that's the most important stat. Plummer at least won for us.

I loved Plummer, he won games. Can't remember his exact winning percentage here but it was close to two out of three. We need that kind of performance to be a dominant force in this league. Jake certainly wasn't the only cog in the wheel, but quarterbacks get too much of the blame and too much of the glory and bottom line Jake produced victories. That's what you want in a quarterback, victory.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 02:18 AM
As hyped up as Orton was such a winner it sure isnt transitioning here in Denver.

Plummer at least seemed to become a better QB once he came to Denver. I know Ortons stats have seemed to get better with pass happy McD and having WR's like BMarsh, Royal and Llyod sure have helped. But Orton hasnt been winning and that's the most important stat. Plummer at least won for us.

My dislike of Plummer was two-fold, his attitude which reminds me of Orton's in way and his unpolished physical abilities, he literally had the gifts to be so much better then he was. I think we signed him after he was pretty much ruined goods by Arizona's inept coaching staff.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 02:26 AM
I loved Plummer, he won games. Can't remember his exact winning percentage here but it was close to two out of three. We need that kind of performance to be a dominant force in this league. Jake certainly wasn't the only cog in the wheel, but quarterbacks get too much of the blame and too much of the glory and bottom line Jake produced victories. That's what you want in a quarterback, victory.

Double high 5.


Winning is the only thing that matters.

And beating the hell out of the raiders twice a year.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 02:31 AM
My dislike of Plummer was two-fold, his attitude which reminds me of Orton's in way and his unpolished physical abilities, he literally had the gifts to be so much better then he was. I think we signed him after he was pretty much ruined goods by Arizona's inept coaching staff.

That's one thing I like about Tebow. He seems to value the fans. As much as I liked Plummer and Cutler they really didnt give the fans the time of day. Thats why when things turned bad the fans turned on them just as quick. If they would been have more stand up guys like Brees or Rogers then I think the fans would have been easier on both of them leaving.


Orton falls into that category now, especially with his latest comments about the fans. As close as he came to getting traded you would think he would at least try to win us over. If he cant do it on the field at least do it through the media and not come off like a ****head.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 02:32 AM
I loved Plummer, he won games. Can't remember his exact winning percentage here but it was close to two out of three. We need that kind of performance to be a dominant force in this league. Jake certainly wasn't the only cog in the wheel, but quarterbacks get too much of the blame and too much of the glory and bottom line Jake produced victories. That's what you want in a quarterback, victory.

Plummer had that X factor, he didn't quit and was competitive and I think that's what a lot of people like about Tebow, the difference is that Jake was a more gifted quarterback in regards to the physical intangibles of the position, but like I said before, Jake's attitude was more then a little cause of concern, and a top that, he really never had a mentor or a good coach till Shanahan and at that point he was set in his ways, if Denver would have drafted Plummer and he'd been coached and mentored correctly, he'd probably still be our starting quarterback.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 02:36 AM
Double high 5.


Winning is the only thing that matters.

And beating the hell out of the raiders twice a year.

I remember when we were in the midsts of our four game slide after winning our second Super Bowl and I was talking with one of my friends in my pick'em league. The Raiders were up and I told him we would beat the Raiders that week hands down. A sucessful season in Bronco land was beating the Raiders twice. Everything else was gravy. There was no way we were going to lose to the Raiders. I think we were the only two that got that game right. Guess I should of kept my mouth shut and it would of only been me. :laugh:

Give me a quarterback that wins games.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 02:41 AM
That's one thing I like about Tebow. He seems to value the fans. As much as I liked Plummer and Cutler they really didnt give the fans the time of day. Thats why when things turned bad the fans turned on them just as quick. If they would been have more stand up guys like Brees or Rogers then I think the fans would have been easier on both of them leaving.


Orton falls into that category now, especially with his latest comments about the fans. As close as he came to getting traded you would think he would at least try to win us over. If he cant do it on the field at least do it through the media and not come off like a ****head.

This. I think we can win with Orton, but he is not going to win us any games, or at least not enough. His remark about the fans really rubbed me the wrong way. Arrogance that has not been earned. If he was winning as many games as Plummer did maybe I would view his remarks a little differently.

underrated29
08-14-2011, 10:04 AM
My opinion is possibly Tebow or Quinn. I think Tebow can be the Guy once he gets a little training. For now he has not so we don't officially know. But I like him the most out of all our abs.qbs

BroncoJoe
08-14-2011, 10:41 AM
Again, I firmly believe Orton will not be here next year, barring a Superbowl appearance. With that belief, we MUST let either Tebow or Quinn play to know what we have otherwise they'll face the same question next year.

pnbronco
08-14-2011, 10:50 AM
Tend, I would argue the opposite. The best thing may be for Orton to play well, and have Tebow sit and learn for another year. Make up for the missed offseason.

I dunno. We need 3rd downs converted. Orton still likes Prater too much.

Totally agree with you Stew. If we can develop a running game, that would seem to take a lot of pressure off as well. Also I would really, really like to see the Broncos get a running game in the red zone. I so hope the O line gels so they can create a hole and have RB that hits it fast and gets those ugly yards for TD's.

Alfred and Stink talk a lot about the mental side of FB. Tebow has improved some from last years camp to this year, but he's still not ready. Not having a off season just hurt him. He can say happy 9 times in a interview but his body language says he's struggling and needs time to develop IMO.

pnbronco
08-14-2011, 11:04 AM
Could it just be that Orton was talking out of frustration? All he has tried to do is work his butt off and it's never been enough.

Tebow has been show adoration by fans since the first time he walked onto Denver territory, because of what he did in college.

Orton has been booed at multiple scrimmages through no fault of his own. He wasn't Cutler, got hurt and still played early on. Thought he may finally get a chance and not one but 2 new QB's came in to take his job. So he gets hammered even more because everyone wants the new puppy even when the puppy is playing bad.

I guess I'm have more empathy because I understand what's it like to try to do my best and be really good at something but not be the image that others want, so all the work I've done doesn't really count.

At camp Kyle and Tebow have given the fans the same amount of time when it was their turn to sign auto's. Kyle wanted to spend some time with his family, so he requested that everyone let the kids through so he could sign for them. I know for a fact that Kyle does a lot of charity work around Denver that never gets published. He has a real soft spot for kids and does what he can to support Children's Charities.

I will support Kyle as long as he is our starting QB. If one of the other QB's become the starter I will support them as well.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-14-2011, 11:09 AM
A tiger can't change his stripes. We have seven years of tape on Kyle Orton, he is who he is, a game manager who doesn't turn the ball over, but he doesn't make the game changing play.

Orton doesn't turn the ball over much, but when he does he makes it count.

Pick six anyone?

Lonestar
08-14-2011, 11:21 AM
If Orton plays out the whole year then that would make him a URFA next year wouldnt it? So, I'm not sure we would even get anything for him. We have to dump him now to help the team. Miami was willing to give us a 2nd. So...now we get nothing?

That sux...


As much as I think Quinn is a solid backup I think we should try and shop him for a 5th or 6th since Orton isnt going anywhere. Tebow could really benifit from learning from a veteran willing to help and he hasny had that since he's been here.

Actually unless they changed the rules on FA we might be able to get a Compensory pick if we lost him..

BTW IIRC you made a comment about noodle arm IIRC 27% or more of his passes last year were for 20+yards almost 8% were for more than 40.

might want to revise that noodle arm comment..

Broncos4life
08-14-2011, 12:51 PM
The only guys in that class that I've seen more than just a little bit of are Luck, Barkley, and Foles.

I actually like Foles a lot. He's always impressed me when I watch him play. Not more than the other two I mentioned, but he's not so far behind that I would be disappointed.

I lived in AZ for years until this year. I've seen Foles play almost every game. He is a decent QB, but he makes some really bad decisions, like throwing into double coverage a lot for ints..... I think he was gonna go pro after last season, but he didn't put up the stats, stay healthy, and play as solid as the year before. I was really disappointed in him and the team. They kinda regressed near the end of the season and backed in to their bowl game and then got slaughtered.

I actually thought Matt Scott, his backup, played a little better than him in limited play. Foles is not a very mobile QB, and Scott was escaping left and right when guys weren't open and he made some plays. Foles is a team guy and a leader, but I don't think we'll ever see him in a Broncos uniform.

I am a die hard BSU fan being from boise. Not even being a homer, I would take a strong look at Kellen Moore before looking at Foles. That guy is good.

Lancane
08-14-2011, 02:02 PM
Again, I firmly believe Orton will not be here next year, barring a Superbowl appearance. With that belief, we MUST let either Tebow or Quinn play to know what we have otherwise they'll face the same question next year.

There are many of us that believe just as you, the problem is that it seems that the team is too uncomfortable to allow such and that Orton gives them a chance to win and win now, and therein winning some of the fanbase back.

DenBronx
08-14-2011, 02:36 PM
Actually unless they changed the rules on FA we might be able to get a Compensory pick if we lost him..

BTW IIRC you made a comment about noodle arm IIRC 27% or more of his passes last year were for 20+yards almost 8% were for more than 40.

might want to revise that noodle arm comment..

Any NFL QB should be able to toss it 40 yards. It just so happens that Orton has no zip on it. He might want to consider becoming a member at Golds Gym and start doing some curls and triceps a few times a week.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-14-2011, 02:54 PM
I think Tebow could easily be the guy. Honestly, I see exactly what everyone loves about Roethlisberger in Tebow (without the rape). The ability to extend plays and buy time and sometimes just take off.

Tim throws well enough, but I don't think he's a pin-point passing surgeon. Roethlisberger isn't either. He does what it takes to win and is a competitor. I think Tebow has all the stuff to be a high-character version of Roethlisberger for us. That's why I think he's a franchise QB either for us, or someone else. Somebody will give him the keys and not regret it. I hope it's us.

TXBRONC
08-14-2011, 03:27 PM
But we may not have that option TX, we really might not. I've watched several of the quarterbacks in this upcoming draft class. And let me tell you, do you remember how high I was on Bradford last year or even Cutler the year we drafted him? IMHO neither would have been drafted where they were in this upcoming class, they'd both be mid to late first round picks, of course there are those who will disagree, but there is a chance that even those that fall into the second are franchise capable.

What I'm saying is that this is time to find out if looks like Tebow is the guy who can be the cornerstone of the offense for the next 10 to 15 years. Imo that means he would have to make mega strides to get that opportunity.

Right now I can see us drafting a quarterback next year and possibly high in the draft. Elway has already teed it up that they will looking at next years crop of quarterbacks.

Slick
08-14-2011, 06:05 PM
I voted no.

I just don't think EFX have much confidence in Tim developing into their guy.

Orton, obviously not. They shopped him the very second the league year got started. Would they do that if they thought he was truly the future?

Quinn either. I think he destined to be a backup for his entire career.

I'm not so sure the front offices really know what they want to do for the long term. That's fine.

But don't expext me, bronco fan, to be excited about what they're doing in this instance.

When they started shopping kyle the very second they could, they made it seem like the plan was to suck it up this year with either quinn or tebow,see what we had in those guys, and know enough about those two to decide if either one could be the man or if we needed to draft one.

Instead, after a complete lack of interest in Kyle Orton,
(How embarrasing...nobody wanted this guy, nobody) then they trot him back out there as a starter and expect bronco fans to like it? Yeah right.

Bronco fans had been preparing themselves for us to take our lumps, while knowing we were taking those lumps to be better in the long run. The fans were preparing for this,it seemed EFX was preparing for this,and the LOCKER ROOM knew it too. Including any veteran free agents we brought in. They watch sports center too, they knew we were shopping Kyle.

People have said they would lose the locker room, I get that, its a valid point, but at the end of the day I get the feeling that they really don't know what they are going to do.


Long post on the BB. Sorry if I am all over the place...

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Lancane
08-14-2011, 06:10 PM
I voted no.

I just don't think EFX have much confidence in Tim developing into their guy.

Orton, obviously not. They shopped him the very second the league year got started. Would they do that if they thought he was truly the future?

Quinn either. I think he destined to be a backup for his entire career.

I'm not so sure the front offices really know what they want to do for the long term. That's fine.

But don't expext me, bronco fan, to be excited about what they're doing in this instance.

When they started shopping kyle the very second they could, they made it seem like the plan was to suck it up this year with either quinn or tebow,see what we had in those guys, and know enough about those two to decide if either one could be the man or if we needed to draft one.

Instead, after a complete lack of interest in Kyle Orton,
(How embarrasing...nobody wanted this guy, nobody) then they trot him back out there as a starter and expect bronco fans to like it? Yeah right.

Bronco fans had been preparing themselves for us to take our lumps, while knowing we were taking those lumps to be better in the long run. The fans were preparing for this,it seemed EFX was preparing for this,and the LOCKER ROOM knew it too. Including any veteran free agents we brought in. They watch sports center too, they knew we were shopping Kyle.

People have said they would lose the locker room, I get that, its a valid point, but at the end of the day I get the feeling that they really don't know what they are going to do.


Long post on the BB. Sorry if I am all over the place...

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Excellent Post Slick, and on the money once again! :salute:

Medford Bronco
08-14-2011, 06:13 PM
I think Elway and Fox are big picture. Again, I dunno.

Cleaning up the D should help all involved.

How about the first real running game since Clinton Portis left

TXBRONC
08-14-2011, 06:16 PM
I voted no.

I just don't think EFX have much confidence in Tim developing into their guy.

Orton, obviously not. They shopped him the very second the league year got started. Would they do that if they thought he was truly the future?

Quinn either. I think he destined to be a backup for his entire career.

I'm not so sure the front offices really know what they want to do for the long term. That's fine.

But don't expext me, bronco fan, to be excited about what they're doing in this instance.

When they started shopping kyle the very second they could, they made it seem like the plan was to suck it up this year with either quinn or tebow,see what we had in those guys, and know enough about those two to decide if either one could be the man or if we needed to draft one.

Instead, after a complete lack of interest in Kyle Orton,
(How embarrasing...nobody wanted this guy, nobody) then they trot him back out there as a starter and expect bronco fans to like it? Yeah right.

Bronco fans had been preparing themselves for us to take our lumps, while knowing we were taking those lumps to be better in the long run. The fans were preparing for this,it seemed EFX was preparing for this,and the LOCKER ROOM knew it too. Including any veteran free agents we brought in. They watch sports center too, they knew we were shopping Kyle.

People have said they would lose the locker room, I get that, its a valid point, but at the end of the day I get the feeling that they really don't know what they are going to do.


Long post on the BB. Sorry if I am all over the place...

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At the end of the draft press conference Elway was asked about why they paid so much attention to the crop quarterbacks in this draft. He said something to the effect "We had to see if that franchise guy was there. You can count on us looking next year too." That's not an exact quote but I pretty sure it's very close.

RebelRocker
08-14-2011, 07:13 PM
At the end of the draft press conference Elway was asked about why they paid so much attention to the crop quarterbacks in this draft. He said something to the effect "We had to see if that franchise guy was there. You can count on us looking next year too." That's not an exact quote but I pretty sure it's very close.

Yeah, I remember hearing that too. It's so unlikely to think that Tebow will prove to everybody that he can be a "franchise QB' in the next year or two and they go with him when he's obviously struggling.

TXBRONC
08-14-2011, 07:27 PM
Yeah, I remember hearing that too. It's so unlikely to think that Tebow will prove to everybody that he can be a "franchise QB' in the next year or two and they go with him when he's obviously struggling.

I think irregardless of how either Tebow or Orton do Elway is going to pull the trigger drafting a quarterback next year.

Canmore
08-14-2011, 07:30 PM
I think irregardless of how either Tebow or Orton do Elway is going to pull the trigger drafting a quarterback next year.

That's how I see it. Our franchise quarterback is part of the 2012 draft class. A lot can happen in a season, but don't be surprised if we take a quarterback in the first round next season.

Lonestar
08-14-2011, 08:49 PM
Double high 5.


Winning is the only thing that matters.

And beating the hell out of the raiders twice a year.



Actually IMHO it does not..

mikey was winning with smoke and mirrors for many years the sign of a good coach being able to win with piss poor talent for the most part..

But winning those games caused us to lose out on talent (not the he would have made great choices anyway) Talent the you should build your franchise with..the foundation of the team and depth that this team has sorely lacked for a long time..

SO mikey was sacrificing wins for talent for many years and relied on covering those holes with very expensive for the most part worn out talent FA..

Each year digging the hole just a bit deeper.. and spending lots of money that has us in the spot we are today..Pat does not have those deep pockets he might have had IF mikey had not pushed the Salary cap every ******* year he was here.. and passing out Pats money in signing bonuses like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse..

How much money went down the toilet with those stunts, money that Pat could have paid loans off with or just stashed in the bank for real players.

How many guys did we not resign because we were at the cap ceiling each year.. Guys that did make a difference.. But instead he was having to spend even more money LONG term to redo contracts for the great players..

How many times did TD, John, Champ and Jake redo their contracts
so we could sign yet another aging worn out FA.

Each of those time they got money up front to make those deals, money that could be written off over the life of the contract. 4-5 years down the road..and by doing that he just extended the problem with the cap.

so to speak borrowed money.. all to just win now..

which he did pretty well, until late each season fade and then get our ass kicked in the playoffs..

IMHO that is not winning..

when you see it in those terms do you still want to just win?

Lancane
08-14-2011, 09:01 PM
Actually IMHO it does not..

mikey was winning with smoke and mirrors for many years the sign of a good coach being able to win with piss poor talent for the most part..

But winning those games caused us to lose out on talent (not the he would have made great choices anyway) Talent the you should build your franchise with..the foundation of the team and depth that this team has sorely lacked for a long time..

SO mikey was sacrificing wins for talent for many years and relied on covering those holes with very expensive for the most part worn out talent FA..

Each year digging the hole just a bit deeper.. and spending lots of money that has us in the spot we are today..Pat does not have those deep pockets he might have had IF mikey had not pushed the Salary cap every ******* year he was here.. and passing out Pats money in signing bonuses like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse..

How much money went down the toilet with those stunts, money that Pat could have paid loans off with or just stashed in the bank for real players.

How many guys did we not resign because we were at the cap ceiling each year.. Guys that did make a difference.. But instead he was having to spend even more money LONG term to redo contracts for the great players..

How many times did TD, John, Champ and Jake redo their contracts
so we could sign yet another aging worn out FA.

Each of those time they got money up front to make those deals, money that could be written off over the life of the contract. 4-5 years down the road..and by doing that he just extended the problem with the cap.

so to speak borrowed money.. all to just win now..

which he did pretty well, until late each season fade and then get our ass kicked in the playoffs..

IMHO that is not winning..

when you see it in those terms do you still want to just win?

Jr. your hypocrisy knows no bounds does it? You're telling people that Orton gives the team the best chance to win, bashing posters unhappy with Kyle, while you continually defend him, even stating he should start because he gives the organization the best chance to win and that winning would indeed return the fans back to the organization. Yet here, once again though unsurprisingly you attack Shanahan, and in the same breath state that what he did was not really winning and that winning isn't all that matters? Likewise you say that the front office knows what they're doing along with Coach Fox, do you really want to point record to record? I mean if we go that route, how many winning teams has Brian Xanders been a member of himself? Fox during his years in Carolina had only three winning seasons...and Elway, we know he's new to the whole executive thing, so I can understand fans questioning them, questioning why are we are allowing Orton to play when the chances of winning are slim so we can see if we have anything worth a damn behind him or if we are still a long ways off.

Shit, I am glad I was not a childhood friend of yours, it would suck that every single time we got in a little trouble to have one among us that would point the finger at everyone else give themselves when caught!

:lol:

Lonestar
08-14-2011, 09:02 PM
I voted no.

I just don't think EFX have much confidence in Tim developing into their guy.

Orton, obviously not. They shopped him the very second the league year got started. Would they do that if they thought he was truly the future?

Quinn either. I think he destined to be a backup for his entire career.

I'm not so sure the front offices really know what they want to do for the long term. That's fine.

But don't expext me, bronco fan, to be excited about what they're doing in this instance.

When they started shopping kyle the very second they could, they made it seem like the plan was to suck it up this year with either quinn or tebow,see what we had in those guys, and know enough about those two to decide if either one could be the man or if we needed to draft one.

Instead, after a complete lack of interest in Kyle Orton,
(How embarrasing...nobody wanted this guy, nobody) then they trot him back out there as a starter and expect bronco fans to like it? Yeah right.

Bronco fans had been preparing themselves for us to take our lumps, while knowing we were taking those lumps to be better in the long run. The fans were preparing for this,it seemed EFX was preparing for this,and the LOCKER ROOM knew it too. Including any veteran free agents we brought in. They watch sports center too, they knew we were shopping Kyle.

People have said they would lose the locker room, I get that, its a valid point, but at the end of the day I get the feeling that they really don't know what they are going to do.


Long post on the BB. Sorry if I am all over the place...

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Slick I thought you were smarter than to believe what you read here..

How DO you or anyone on this forum know what other offers they got for Orton..

NO one does.

Im not saying that MIA was the only offer but it was a legit offer from them and only Orton who did not want to work for less money this year (can't say blame him) than he would have gotten here..


As for what the FO thinks about the other QB's again NO ONE knows.

We very well could have 2.5 FQB on the team as we speak, and they are not babbling about it..

I suspect that if an offer for Orton comes our way with upcoming injuries they will pull the trigger and go to plan Q or T. they know that Orton is gone with little or no compensation at the end of the year and can easily sell to the fans and Pat why they would make the trade..

Winning is important but IF the fans see they are truly rebuilding then they will be more patient than most on here want to believe..

BUt do not take what you read here as gospel or for that matter the DEN reporters who are after all trying to sell ad space..

Use logic to sort out what you see and crap can, the crap.

Lonestar
08-14-2011, 09:10 PM
Jr. your hypocrisy known no bounds does it? You're telling people that Orton gives the team the best chance to win, bashing posters unhappy with Kyle, while you continually defend him, even stating he should start because he gives the organization the best chance to win and that winning would indeed return the fans back to the organization. Yet here, once again though unsurprisingly you attack Shanahan, and in the same breath state that what he did was not really winning and that winning isn't all that matters?

Shit, I am glad I was not a childhood friend of yours, it would suck that every single time we got in a little trouble to have one among us that would point the finger at everyone else give themselves when caught!

:lol:

NOT sure where you have picked up I support Orton is the best chance to win.. I have almost without stop said that I'd rather trade him for value while we can.. and start Tebow if he is ready ( which I do not think he is) or Quinn..

As far as mikey just bring facts to light that some have not figured out for them selves.

he was a great OC knew X&Os on offense, won a lot of games with smoke and mirrors. but almost anyone that can think clearly knows he sucked the players and depth out of this team. With his reckless spending for stop gap players with NO Long term potential..

As far as my childhood, you have no idea about how many beatings I took and suspensions I got for sticking up for smaller friends.. Not a clue..

but good try in trying to smear me in yet another way..

If you repeat it enough maybe you will get others to believe it like some do of your "expertise"

RebelRocker
08-14-2011, 09:15 PM
I think irregardless of how either Tebow or Orton do Elway is going to pull the trigger drafting a quarterback next year.

Yeah. Maybe if they wanted to give Tebow ONE more shot to compete for the starting job next year, they'll wait until the 2nd or 3rd to get a QB and they'll let Tebow compete with the rookie for the starting job.


I don't know if that will happen though. I think EFX wants to end the circus known as Tebowmania ASAP and the only way you can do that is to get him off the team after this season and draft their QB.

Lonestar
08-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Any NFL QB should be able to toss it 40 yards. It just so happens that Orton has no zip on it. He might want to consider becoming a member at Golds Gym and start doing some curls and triceps a few times a week.

one of the reason he lead the league until he was hurt in the long ball..

Yep no zip at all.. if he had no zip how come there were not more picks in the long game..

Food for thought..

Lancane
08-14-2011, 09:31 PM
NOT sure where you have picked up I support Orton is the best chance to win.. I have almost without stop said that I'd rather trade him for value while we can.. and start Tebow if he is ready ( which I do not think he is) or Quinn..

As far as mikey just bring facts to light that some have not figured out for them selves.

he was a great OC knew X&Os on offense, won a lot of games with smoke and mirrors. but almost anyone that can think clearly knows he sucked the players and depth out of this team. With his reckless spending for stop gap players with NO Long term potential..

As far as my childhood, you have no idea about how many beatings I took and suspensions I got for sticking up for smaller friends.. Not a clue..

but good try in trying to smear me in yet another way..

If you repeat it enough maybe you will get others to believe it like some do of your "expertise"

Sorry Jr. you're right I don't know about your childhood and it was very unkindly of me to throw that at you.

And if you read my posts I constantly said that we need to give Tebow the chance to prove he is even worth the developmental time it will take to get him to NFL ready. But going with Orton truly hinders that, especially when I start to see the next draft overflowing with prospects that are franchise capable, if not elite.

It seems to me that every slight on Orton your quick to defend and bash those unhappy and then you do it in return to Cutler in a never ending continuous circle, the same with Shanahan when someone slams McDaniels. I think people would listen to you a bit more and far more open minded if you would quit the whole Cutler - Shanahan bash fest you seem to have going on. The same when fans start to question the current organization, people need to realize there is a lot of damage between the team and the fans...can it be fixed? I believe so, but I believe it will take a commitment to the excellence of the future more then a winning now mindset to get it done. For me the issue is Fox seems to stick with questionable mediocre quarterbacks, even to the point that people are literally turning against him, that is what really cost him his job IMHO.

And I am not trying to smear you, I am trying to point out that being hypocritical causes people to take what you say, whether good or bad at face value.

;)

Tned
08-14-2011, 09:34 PM
Wow, another thread got turned into a mikey bash fest. Would never have expected it.

:****ingdisgust:

Any chance we can get it back on topic, which was not personal vengeance against a coach that is long gone.

Lonestar
08-14-2011, 11:10 PM
Sorry Jr. you're right I don't know about your childhood and it was very unkindly of me to throw that at you.

And if you read my posts I constantly said that we need to give Tebow the chance to prove he is even worth the developmental time it will take to get him to NFL ready. But going with Orton truly hinders that, especially when I start to see the next draft overflowing with prospects that are franchise capable, if not elite.

It seems to me that every slight on Orton your quick to defend and bash those unhappy and then you do it in return to Cutler in a never ending continuous circle, the same with Shanahan when someone slams McDaniels. I think people would listen to you a bit more and far more open minded if you would quit the whole Cutler - Shanahan bash fest you seem to have going on. The same when fans start to question the current organization, people need to realize there is a lot of damage between the team and the fans...can it be fixed? I believe so, but I believe it will take a commitment to the excellence of the future more then a winning now mindset to get it done. For me the issue is Fox seems to stick with questionable mediocre quarterbacks, even to the point that people are literally turning against him, that is what really cost him his job IMHO.

And I am not trying to smear you, I am trying to point out that being hypocritical causes people to take what you say, whether good or bad at face value.

;)

Just the fact cane Just the facts..

someday everyone will get it..

Lancane
08-15-2011, 04:28 AM
Just the fact cane Just the facts..

someday everyone will get it..

Get what, your strange disdain for Shanahan? I don't think we ever will, I mean granted the man made mistakes but he did a lot for this organization...more then you want to credit him with. Was it time for a change? Yes, I fully supported change, but I did not support the massive A-bomb disaster we incurred at the hands of McDaniels...I get that you liked what he was doing, but many didn't.

As to the whole Cutler - Orton issue, I don't see what you see, what you believe is solely based off your forlorn opinion. A lot of people would take Cutler over Orton, some wouldn't, many agree that Orton isn't at all special or capable, others will give him a chance...some swear by him...and according to your own words it's sounds like you believe it's time for change at the quarterback position...so it is a bit confusing.

claymore
08-15-2011, 06:07 AM
Get what, your strange disdain for Shanahan? I don't think we ever will, I mean granted the man made mistakes but he did a lot for this organization...more then you want to credit him with. Was it time for a change? Yes, I fully supported change, but I did not support the massive A-bomb disaster we incurred at the hands of McDaniels...I get that you liked what he was doing, but many didn't.

As to the whole Cutler - Orton issue, I don't see what you see, what you believe is solely based off your forlorn opinion. A lot of people would take Cutler over Orton, some wouldn't, many agree that Orton isn't at all special or capable, others will give him a chance...some swear by him...and according to your own words it's sounds like you believe it's time for change at the quarterback position...so it is a bit confusing.

Anyone that would take Orton over Cutler is basing their decisions off of misguided emotions and not rational thinking.

MOtorboat
08-15-2011, 07:41 AM
Anyone that would take Orton over Cutler is basing their decisions off of misguided emotions and not rational thinking.

I want neither in an ideal situation. Is that rational?

:salute:

SOCALORADO.
08-15-2011, 08:41 AM
Well, lets get this monday morning started.
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2010/10/27/sp-stanford28_PH_0502443025.jpg
http://images.athlonsports.com/d/22426-1/BarkleyMatt4.JPG
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/6266408/480/Hi-Res-pics/landry-jones.jpg?v0
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Ryan+Lindley+Utah+v+San+Diego+State+azx3iMGhnk3l.j pg

Npba900
08-15-2011, 08:43 AM
When Orton came here I think most people felt much the way I did and that was "well, I didn't want the trade but since we got 2 firsts and this guy I guess Orton will do for a year". I think most people thought Orton would be a stopgap until we developed a guy.

Then we traded for Quinn and I thought we'd develop him. Then we drafted Tebow and I thought we'd develop him. Now it's going on three seasons and the stopgap guy, who has done nothing but throw for a bunch of yards and choke a lot, is still here. It's like were still being held hostage by McD and his horrible decisions.

Top that off with Orton's statements about how good he plays and how he is basically entitled to an unchallenged starter's role and I think a lot of people feel like I do and they just want this guy gone any way possible.

I honestly believe we are being forced into mediocrity at the most important position on the field.

I'd be incline to agree with you on the QB merry go round except for the fact that the hiring of Elway as President and GM will put an end to the "Stop Gap" QB plan of action.

Elway will lift heaven n earth to draft/land a mechanically-fundamently sound QB that can play from the pocket, make all the throws and who has the accumen to read defenses. Coach Fox will use his veteran leadership to address the defense, the OL and the runnging attack.

Its going to take at least 2 years to accomplish all this, but at least the team is going in the right direction. 2013 should be the year the Broncos return to its winning traditional ways.

Npba900
08-15-2011, 08:54 AM
Well, lets get this monday morning started.
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2010/10/27/sp-stanford28_PH_0502443025.jpg
http://images.athlonsports.com/d/22426-1/BarkleyMatt4.JPG
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/6266408/480/Hi-Res-pics/landry-jones.jpg?v0
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Ryan+Lindley+Utah+v+San+Diego+State+azx3iMGhnk3l.j pg

Rep! This is how you get the fan base excited again. This franchise so badly needs a Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Rothlesberger, Flacco type QB to become the face of the franchise. Meanwhile, Tebow can take the next 3-5 years to develop into an NFL QB who can throw from the pocket.

BroncoNut
08-15-2011, 08:55 AM
I voted no. I think that Tebow will be traded away. not sure what's left on his contract, but isn't it 3 years or something? and Kyle will be gone after this season I believe. I don't believe in Quinn at this time, but would like to see what he can bring. Just too much instabiliy with the team for an uncertain to establish.

BroncoNut
08-15-2011, 08:56 AM
I don't know why everyone's so high on Andrew Luck. I think he sucks

SOCALORADO.
08-15-2011, 09:12 AM
Rep! This is how you get the fan base excited again. This franchise so badly needs a Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Rothlesberger, Flacco type QB to become the face of the franchise. Meanwhile, Tebow can take the next 3-5 years to develop into an NFL QB who can throw from the pocket.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/8f/fullj.e8399a0d930a409b6351f5ff0ed8a5ee/e8399a0d930a409b6351f5ff0ed8a5ee-getty-120879403.jpg

HammeredOut
08-15-2011, 10:29 AM
I think the Broncos can roll with Ryan Mallet as a the QB of the future. Trade Tebow straight up. Mallet is that good, and I believe he can stay in the league 15years. Ive never seen that kind of talent drop into the 3rd round, when he was likely the top QB in the draft this year. He already looks NFL ready. I didn't want to believe it, but he made a believer out of me. His off field issues, and his friends are what scared all the teams away.

HammeredOut
08-15-2011, 10:36 AM
175

Nomad
08-15-2011, 10:39 AM
I don't know why everyone's so high on Andrew Luck. I think he sucks

We'll see, nut! It all starts Sept 3. You'd expect Luck to put up 50+ against San Jose St.

Lonestar
08-15-2011, 11:13 AM
Get what, your strange disdain for Shanahan? I don't think we ever will, I mean granted the man made mistakes but he did a lot for this organization...more then you want to credit him with. Was it time for a change? Yes, I fully supported change, but I did not support the massive A-bomb disaster we incurred at the hands of McDaniels...I get that you liked what he was doing, but many didn't.

As to the whole Cutler - Orton issue, I don't see what you see, what you believe is solely based off your forlorn opinion. A lot of people would take Cutler over Orton, some wouldn't, many agree that Orton isn't at all special or capable, others will give him a chance...some swear by him...and according to your own words it's sounds like you believe it's time for change at the quarterback position...so it is a bit confusing.

I have always liked (till the last year or so seemed to have lost focus or desire) mikey as an OC and sometimes as a HC.. but he has NEVER done us any favors as a personnel guy in fact it is easily argued that he put us behind the eight ball by his piss poor decisions on day one picks..

Hell I would have loved to keep jay because IMO Josh would have made him into a much better controlled passer or he would have killed him in the process..

jay has loads of physical talent I have never disagreed about that.. it is between the ears he lacks strength.

go back and look at his week by week performances. up and down like a yo-yo played most good defenses poorly and feasted on the bad ones..

Sorry that is how I see it and has nothing to do with past situations.. Purely looking at the facts.. Nothing EMO about it just logic..

I could care less if some of you think he is the second coming or could have been until he grows up and get tough mentally he will always be that guy we saw on the sidelines in that last SAN game with Rivers mocking him.. a beaten mental weakling..

Sorry..

Npba900
08-15-2011, 12:29 PM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/8f/fullj.e8399a0d930a409b6351f5ff0ed8a5ee/e8399a0d930a409b6351f5ff0ed8a5ee-getty-120879403.jpg

Oh yeah...I forgot about Mallot(sp). People are saying he has the best QB upside/intangibles in the enter 2011 draft. In two or three years the Patriots will be ready to sever ties with Tom Brady like the Packers did with Farve when they handed the job over to Aaron Rodgers.

Its amazing Mallot droped so far in the draft. Mallot is now playing on a dynasty and gets to learn behind a HOF QB and not thrown to the wolves.

Npba900
08-15-2011, 12:36 PM
I don't know why everyone's so high on Andrew Luck. I think he sucks

What gives you doubts about Luck? Everyone says he has all the intangebles.

Npba900
08-15-2011, 12:39 PM
I have always liked (till the last year or so seemed to have lost focus or desire) mikey as an OC and sometimes as a HC.. but he has NEVER done us any favors as a personnel guy in fact it is easily argued that he put us behind the eight ball by his piss poor decisions on day one picks..

Hell I would have loved to keep jay because IMO Josh would have made him into a much better controlled passer or he would have killed him in the process..

jay has loads of physical talent I have never disagreed about that.. it is between the ears he lacks strength.

go back and look at his week by week performances. up and down like a yo-yo played most good defenses poorly and feasted on the bad ones..

Sorry that is how I see it and has nothing to do with past situations.. Purely looking at the facts.. Nothing EMO about it just logic..

I could care less if some of you think he is the second coming or could have been until he grows up and get tough mentally he will always be that guy we saw on the sidelines in that last SAN game with Rivers mocking him.. a beaten mental weakling..

Sorry..

I hear what you're saying about Cutler and the maturity/decision making. What I'm waiting to see how Cutler performs with a great OL and a number 1 go to WR. After all last year Jay endured 52 sacks and probably lead the NFL in that department.

Npba900
08-15-2011, 12:43 PM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/8f/fullj.e8399a0d930a409b6351f5ff0ed8a5ee/e8399a0d930a409b6351f5ff0ed8a5ee-getty-120879403.jpg

How many draft picks would Elway have to give up to lure Mallet away from the Patriots. I think it would take 2 number one draft picks over the next two years. Would that be to high of a price to pay?????

HammeredOut
08-15-2011, 12:49 PM
How many draft picks would Elway have to give up to lure Mallet away from the Patriots. I think it would take 2 number one draft picks over the next two years. Would that be to high of a price to pay?????

Id give them Tebow. Robert Kraft would love all the fame, and positive hype Tebow brings to the team. I think that would outweigh his non existant skills.

Tebow and a 3rd.

SOCALORADO.
08-15-2011, 12:52 PM
Id give them Tebow. Robert Kraft would love all the fame, and positive hype Tebow brings to the team. I think that would outweigh his non existant skills.

Tebow and a 3rd.

Nope. It would have to be a 2nd rounder and a player.
Or a 2nd and a 5th. NE would want compensation and they drafted Mallet in the 3rd? i think?!?! So they would want adequate compensation for him.
DEN should still do it.
That would give NE like 2 1sts and 3 2nds next year i think. *sighs*
The rich get richer.