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View Full Version : Mike Shanahan should NOT be fired



RunYouOver
11-23-2008, 07:26 PM
Posted this on Mania, but figured I'd post the same here. There's so many people calling for him to be fired that I couldn't take it anymore...


Go ahead and bash him all you want, if you think he should be fired, you are WRONG.

First, the basics:

This is what you want if you're calling for him to be fired:

Let's go sign a new coach a year after we've been decimated by injuries and the team is filled with young developing talent.

Then, we can get a new coach, who's probably a lot younger and more inexperienced, completely change the playbook, and move backwards five years.

Because that makes sense.:rolleyes:

I'd assume that even the least knowledgeable football fans understand the impact momentum has on the game.

It's a big impact.

All you can ask the coach to do is call the plays, but the momentum is uncontrollable. In today's game, we got off to a fast start, stopped the Raiders and drove down the field before Hillis fumbled away a touchdown.

If we're up 7-0 early, Oakland is devastated.

Ok, so we turned the ball over, they didn't score, we get the ball back and should have an opportunity to get on the board with a FG. MISSED.

If we're up 3-0, that knocks Oakland back again, and momentum could be changed.

Same story with the other missed FG. Shanny got us to a spot on the field where a FG SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE.

The Punt Return TD is NOT SHANNY's fault. There's no way you can possibly blame him for that. That's 7 points and a lot of momentum. Again, uncontrollable.

The fact that we are still in control of our destiny despite being absolutely killed by injuries is an indication of Shanahan's success as a coach.

We would be headed in the absolute wrong direction with a coaching change, whether some fans want it to happen or not.

haroldthebarrel
11-23-2008, 07:29 PM
people who wanna can him should be fired off this world.

I post with emotions and every idiot should know you dont take serious decisions when you are filled with emotions, especially negative ones.

G_Money
11-23-2008, 07:37 PM
I don't want Shanahan fired, but as for the rest:


Originally Posted by RunYouOver
Go ahead and bash him all you want, if you think he should be fired, you are WRONG.

First, the basics:

This is what you want if you're calling for him to be fired:

Let's go sign a new coach a year after we've been decimated by injuries and the team is filled with young developing talent.

Then, we can get a new coach, who's probably a lot younger and more inexperienced, completely change the playbook, and move backwards five years.

Because that makes sense.

I'd assume that even the least knowledgeable football fans understand the impact momentum has on the game.

It's a big impact.

All you can ask the coach to do is call the plays, but the momentum is uncontrollable. In today's game, we got off to a fast start, stopped the Raiders and drove down the field before Hillis fumbled away a touchdown.

If we're up 7-0 early, Oakland is devastated. Probably true.

Ok, so we turned the ball over, they didn't score, we get the ball back and should have an opportunity to get on the board with a FG. MISSED. Still true.

If we're up 3-0, that knocks Oakland back again, and momentum could be changed. I dunno about momentum off a FG - they'd still feel like they held us, which they did. But points are points, and we could have used a lot more of them.

Same story with the other missed FG. Shanny got us to a spot on the field where a FG SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE. Disagree. This is where we lost the game, by not trying to tie it up before halftime, and settling for a 40+ yard FG when there was still time on the clock.


The Punt Return TD is NOT SHANNY's fault. There's no way you can possibly blame him for that. That's 7 points and a lot of momentum. Again, uncontrollable. Wrong. Playcalling of two long throws and a stupid QB draw forced us to punt with 20 seconds or so run off the clock. If we'd gone for first downs we could have run the clock. Marching down the field should have been our objective, but instead we ran - and messed up - the same long pass play twice, which led directly to the punt that scored the TD. That's on the playcalling. It should never have happened.

The fact that we are still in control of our destiny despite being absolutely killed by injuries is an indication of Shanahan's success as a coach. Actually, it's an indication of how atrocious the AFC West is this year - the same AFC West whose bottom 2 teams have beaten us handily this year.

We would be headed in the absolute wrong direction with a coaching change, whether some fans want it to happen or not. Without at least SOME coaching change, on defense for certain and some adjustment of playcalling on offense at the very least, we're already going in the wrong direction. Shanahan doesn't need to go, but some things cannot remain the same.

JMO.

~G

Northman
11-23-2008, 07:38 PM
As much as i love Shanahan i really have to wonder if the team is responding to him like they used too. Bash me all you want i dont care.

Sure, i love and respect the guy for what he has accomplished here the past few years. Sure, be careful for what you ask for. But, at the same time its gone beyond injuries (in fact, the defense is playing BETTER without the big name players) its a total lack of preperation, discipline, and consistency which falls on the Head Coach. Fact is, Shanahan has gotten lazy with his own preperation game in and game out. Bowlen has made it too cozy for Shanny and its starting to show.

Was i expecting a SB this year? No. But considering the opportunity we have with the Chargers sucking it up and the talent that we have on offense games like this are just unacceptable. Like any other loss now a days i shrug this off as this is football. But, i do have to wonder if a change would be necessary to get this team back to winning CONSISTENTLY. Losing to good teams is one thing, but losing to teams that you should beat is another and that is proof of lack of focus and lack of preperation.

When i watch the Baltimore Ravens fire a SB winning coach and go with an unknown, use a rookie Qb from Deleware College and not only compete for the division far more competitive than the AFCW i have to wonder if we are putting too much stock into Shanahan.

Nomad
11-23-2008, 07:42 PM
As much as i love Shanahan i really have to wonder if the team is responding to him like they used too. Bash me all you want i dont care.

Sure, i love and respect the guy for what he has accomplished here the past few years. Sure, be careful for what you ask for. But, at the same time its gone beyond injuries (in fact, the defense is playing BETTER without the big name players) its a total lack of preperation, discipline, and consistency which falls on the Head Coach. Fact is, Shanahan has gotten lazy with his own preperation game in and game out. Bowlen has made it too cozy for Shanny and its starting to show.

Was i expecting a SB this year? No. But considering the opportunity we have with the Chargers sucking it up and the talent that we have on offense games like this are just unacceptable. Like any other loss now a days i shrug this off as this is football. But, i do have to wonder if a change would be necessary to get this team back to winning CONSISTENTLY. Losing to good teams is one thing, but losing to teams that you should beat is another and that is proof of lack of focus and lack of preperation.

When i watch the Baltimore Ravens fire a SB winning coach and go with an unknown, use a rookie Qb from Deleware College and not only compete for the division far more competitive than the AFCW i have to wonder if we are putting too much stock into Shanahan.


I agree and good post! Sometimes change is good and it hurts to change. One thing I do believe is that Shanahan needs to focus on coaching and nothing else, so this would mean lighten his load within the BRONCOS head office!

G_Money
11-23-2008, 07:49 PM
But, at the same time its gone beyond injuries (in fact, the defense is playing BETTER without the big name players) its a total lack of preperation, discipline, and consistency which falls on the Head Coach. Fact is, Shanahan has gotten lazy with his own preperation game in and game out. Bowlen has made it too cozy for Shanny and its starting to show.


Preparation is lacking. I don't like it. Kubes ran the same ship Shanahan did, so while Kubes was here there wasn't a real drop-off that I noticed.

Since then it's been Dinger and Bates, and we don't seem as ready on gamedays. Some of it's the young kids we have staffing all sides of the ball, but part of it isn't.

Of course, Dinger is back with the Titans and they're killing it with consistency except for this week, obviously, so maybe it wasn't him.

Maybe Shanahan does need to take a long hard look in the mirror after a blowout loss to a terrible Raiders team and figure out what he's doing wrong with team preparation, planning and motivation.

But will that happen? :coffee:

~G

haroldthebarrel
11-23-2008, 07:53 PM
If you think Shanahan is ever gonna be a great motivator you are dead wrong.

The guy is a great strategist but he wont ever put the team into the mental position to play fired up.

If there is one thing wrong with the offensive staff is that there are nobody to help motivate the players when we are down. All of Shanahan, Bates and Dennison are all good at strategy, but there is a role missing.
And that is maybe one thing that helps make us so inconsistant since we are so young.

ChampWJ
11-23-2008, 07:54 PM
This isn't the first time in recent years an inferior Broncos opponent has been better prepared, better motivated, and better coached on gameday. I could care less about momentum. To get that dominated by the RAIDERS at HOME is inexcusable. I actually bought tickets and froze my butt off at the game for that? What a joke.

Mike
11-23-2008, 07:54 PM
Dennison good at strategy? All he is good for is bring Shanahan his coffee. ;)

Greatspirits
11-23-2008, 07:56 PM
I was one who posted he should go after the Miami game, the past couple of weeks made me rethink that, but now, sometimes I just don't know! We've had a couple of good drafts and it takes time, but what are we looking at? another 2 or 3 years!!

Northman
11-23-2008, 08:01 PM
If you think Shanahan is ever gonna be a great motivator you are dead wrong.



If thats truly the case than i believe that too be a bigger problem than everything else. The league isnt the same as it was when John and TD were here. I think right now when the team looks at an emotionless and ho-hum Shanahan on the sideline they in turn take on the same feeling.

The other side of that is the lack of even TRYING to run the ball. Even when we were down 17-10 its all pass with a run thrown in every once in a blue moon. I know we dont have the most dominate running game but when you dont even try its far to easy for the opposing defense to key on the pass. Again, that goes with the preparation of trying to out coach the other guy. It just upsets me when i look at a team like the Ravens and their players look absolutely hungry on every play and every game. And all this coming under a no name Coach. I really miss having a team like that.

MOtorboat
11-23-2008, 08:04 PM
The last thing this organization needs is to fire a Hall of Fame coach.

G_Money
11-23-2008, 08:11 PM
If thats truly the case than i believe that too be a bigger problem than everything else. The league isnt the same as it was when John and TD were here. I think right now when the team looks at an emotionless and ho-hum Shanahan on the sideline they in turn take on the same feeling.

The other side of that is the lack of even TRYING to run the ball. Even when we were down 17-10 its all pass with a run thrown in every once in a blue moon. I know we dont have the most dominate running game but when you dont even try its far to easy for the opposing defense to key on the pass. Again, that goes with the preparation of trying to out coach the other guy. It just upsets me when i look at a team like the Ravens and their players look absolutely hungry on every play and every game. And all this coming under a no name Coach. I really miss having a team like that.

That team is hungry because they have some hungry players. Harold's right that Shanny's never been a good motivator. He didn't have to be. He had Keith Burns on the ST unit, Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Tom Nalen, Al Wilson, Steve Atwater....we had leaders all over the field.

John Elway wasn't much of a locker room leader, btw. He didn't give lots of great speeches. He did his talking on the field, and other people called players to be accountable in the locker room.

So I don't need Jay to do it. But we are gonna need someone to do it. We don't have Ray Lewis from the Ravens, or Keith Bulluck and Van Den Boesch from the Titans. Maybe one of the kids will do it, but it's really hard for a rookie to come in and do it.

Champ has always been more of an Elway-type "my play speaks for itself." Robertson's quiet. DJ has never been a leader, even when he wants to be. That was Vilma's job at Miami, and Al's job here. I don't think DJ can do it. Our whole OL is kids, aside from Hamilton and Weigmann, neither of whom are great talkers either. Marshall's an emotional kid but not a leader yet. And our safeties would get strung up for trying to talk about effort and leadership.

Our leader on D is Ekuban. Our leader on O is Graham, and maybe Stokley.

That's a tough sell to a locker room. Your leaders don't all have to be your best players, but it'd be nice if at least one of them was.

Guys with leadership potential? Larsen and Woodyard on D. They did it in college for their teams, as did Royal. But it's hard to do that as a rook, like I said. And if neither of the two defenders remains a starter after this year it'll be even harder.

One of the reasons I wanted Vilma over Robertson in a trade was leadership. We're still lacking it, on the field and in the locker room.

Shanahan's not gonna provide it. So he needs to get a DC who will, or some first-rate talent that will, or we're gonna keep having these let-downs with no one to hold their teammates accountable.

~G

haroldthebarrel
11-23-2008, 08:11 PM
If thats truly the case than i believe that too be a bigger problem than everything else. The league isnt the same as it was when John and TD were here. I think right now when the team looks at an emotionless and ho-hum Shanahan on the sideline they in turn take on the same feeling.

The other side of that is the lack of even TRYING to run the ball. Even when we were down 17-10 its all pass with a run thrown in every once in a blue moon. I know we dont have the most dominate running game but when you dont even try its far to easy for the opposing defense to key on the pass. Again, that goes with the preparation of trying to out coach the other guy. It just upsets me when i look at a team like the Ravens and their players look absolutely hungry on every play and every game. And all this coming under a no name Coach. I really miss having a team like that.


The Ravens defense is. Their offense is playing dont turn the ball over.

As I said, you want a society that compliments eachother. Thats how a team becomes better than its parts.

And as far as Dennison is concerned. I should have said he is a strategist, and not a great one.
The running game will come next year when the linemen are more accustomed to the ZBS. Just watch.

The future is still bright, it is just that we could have done things a little better. Cutler is no Elway even if he will probably own all his stats in the end.
Elway was special that way in that he could suck all game, but when the game was on the line he teethgrinded us to a win.
Cutler wont ever be like that, like no player will ever be another Elway.

haroldthebarrel
11-23-2008, 08:18 PM
That team is hungry because they have some hungry players. Harold's right that Shanny's never been a good motivator. He didn't have to be. He had Keith Burns on the ST unit, Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Tom Nalen, Al Wilson, Steve Atwater....we had leaders all over the field.

John Elway wasn't much of a locker room leader, btw. He didn't give lots of great speeches. He did his talking on the field, and other people called players to be accountable in the locker room.

So I don't need Jay to do it. But we are gonna need someone to do it. We don't have Ray Lewis from the Ravens, or Keith Bulluck and Van Den Boesch from the Titans. Maybe one of the kids will do it, but it's really hard for a rookie to come in and do it.

Champ has always been more of an Elway-type "my play speaks for itself." Robertson's quiet. DJ has never been a leader, even when he wants to be. That was Vilma's job at Miami, and Al's job here. I don't think DJ can do it. Our whole OL is kids, aside from Hamilton and Weigmann, neither of whom are great talkers either. Marshall's an emotional kid but not a leader yet. And our safeties would get strung up for trying to talk about effort and leadership.

Our leader on D is Ekuban. Our leader on O is Graham, and maybe Stokley.

That's a tough sell to a locker room. Your leaders don't all have to be your best players, but it'd be nice if at least one of them was.

Guys with leadership potential? Larsen and Woodyard on D. They did it in college for their teams, as did Royal. But it's hard to do that as a rook, like I said. And if neither of the two defenders remains a starter after this year it'll be even harder.

One of the reasons I wanted Vilma over Robertson in a trade was leadership. We're still lacking it, on the field and in the locker room.

Shanahan's not gonna provide it. So he needs to get a DC who will, or some first-rate talent that will, or we're gonna keep having these let-downs with no one to hold their teammates accountable.

~G

Thats a good point and that is exactly why I really hope Singletary wont get a HC gig and we pay up for him.
Him at the sideline would be helpful in that he would fire the team up and he is a great at coaching fundamentals as well.

As I said early this year, the loss of Lynch will hurt us a lot more than his lack of skills hurt us.
We make many mental mistakes, and as you say there are basically nobody to tell the young players forget about it and focus on your job the next down.
Cutler will probably become a leader, but until then we are just pretenders.
Playoff experience will be huge though, since you learn from your mistakes as well as copying the guys who know how to do their job.

WARHORSE
11-23-2008, 08:20 PM
For one thing, Cutler was off. This is the second game that I saw where he should have been attacking the intermediate routes and the middle of the field, and we should have been running crossing patterns cause the fade was in man all dang day. And HILLIS was killin it up the gut, so why did we not stay with that???

This young Ocoordinator needs to learn to adjust better on game day, or hes going to keep losing us games.

G_Money
11-23-2008, 08:22 PM
Singletary has never been a DC. All he'd be for us is a cheerleader and positional coach. I have nothing but respect for Singletary, but a) I don't think he gets fired and b) I don't see him being added to the team when he can't coach defense, even though I'd love to have him.

But we need somebody a little more dynamic than Shanahan to rally the troops. We just do. Whether they're playing on the field or coaching from the sidelines, we need some new blood.

Old blood and Mike's butt-kissers aren't cutting it anymore. Maybe they will again once we finish re-stocking on talent, but the pool got so shallow and now is so young that it just can't cover for those areas of weakess.

~G

Northman
11-23-2008, 08:25 PM
Whether they're playing on the field or coaching from the sidelines, we need some new blood.

Old blood and Mike's butt-kissers aren't cutting it anymore. Maybe they will again once we finish re-stocking on talent, but the pool got so shallow and now is so young that it just can't cover for those areas of weakess.

~G

Yea, thats my major concern as well.

JONtheBRONCO
11-23-2008, 09:40 PM
People, I'm sure, are calling for Shanahan's head and probably Jay's head. But these two aren't the problem. If anyone watched the game today, they would see our defense is pathetic. Wow, I'm excited about Jay, he wants to win, he takes chances but I'll take that over anything. Lets face it, our defense is a joke, we are going to need one hell of a draft. Our offense can click, our defense needs some players. Big time.

Northman
11-23-2008, 09:41 PM
Our offense can click, our defense needs some players. Big time.

10 points is clicking?

Slick
11-23-2008, 09:44 PM
That team is hungry because they have some hungry players. Harold's right that Shanny's never been a good motivator. He didn't have to be. He had Keith Burns on the ST unit, Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Tom Nalen, Al Wilson, Steve Atwater....we had leaders all over the field.

John Elway wasn't much of a locker room leader, btw. He didn't give lots of great speeches. He did his talking on the field, and other people called players to be accountable in the locker room.

So I don't need Jay to do it. But we are gonna need someone to do it. We don't have Ray Lewis from the Ravens, or Keith Bulluck and Van Den Boesch from the Titans. Maybe one of the kids will do it, but it's really hard for a rookie to come in and do it.

Champ has always been more of an Elway-type "my play speaks for itself." Robertson's quiet. DJ has never been a leader, even when he wants to be. That was Vilma's job at Miami, and Al's job here. I don't think DJ can do it. Our whole OL is kids, aside from Hamilton and Weigmann, neither of whom are great talkers either. Marshall's an emotional kid but not a leader yet. And our safeties would get strung up for trying to talk about effort and leadership.


Edit: Shanahan has never been a rah rah coach, but he always had his troops fired up to play Oakland. From day one he's done this. I was extremely surprised to see such a flat team today.
Our leader on D is Ekuban. Our leader on O is Graham, and maybe Stokley.

That's a tough sell to a locker room. Your leaders don't all have to be your best players, but it'd be nice if at least one of them was.

Guys with leadership potential? Larsen and Woodyard on D. They did it in college for their teams, as did Royal. But it's hard to do that as a rook, like I said. And if neither of the two defenders remains a starter after this year it'll be even harder.

One of the reasons I wanted Vilma over Robertson in a trade was leadership. We're still lacking it, on the field and in the locker room.

Shanahan's not gonna provide it. So he needs to get a DC who will, or some first-rate talent that will, or we're gonna keep having these let-downs with no one to hold their teammates accountable.

~GGreat post G. I miss those veterans who held their team mates accountable. We sorely miss that. Not much more I can add to the points you made.


For one thing, Cutler was off. This is the second game that I saw where he should have been attacking the intermediate routes and the middle of the field, and we should have been running crossing patterns cause the fade was in man all dang day. And HILLIS was killin it up the gut, so why did we not stay with that???

This young Ocoordinator needs to learn to adjust better on game day, or hes going to keep losing us games.

This is another excellent post. Excuse me for yelling, but...THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD IS YOUR FRIEND!!! Graham and Scheffler can make plays. Let them. Eddie and Brandon become that much more dangerous when they use the TE's or Stokley over the middle.

Edit: Shanahan has never been a rah rah type of coach, and that's fine by me, but he always had his troops fired up to play Oakland. It surprised me to see such a flat team today.

bpphoto
01-01-2009, 05:35 PM
Thanks Pat for making the dumbest decision in NFL history. Shanahan is what made the Broncos what it is. Yes Denver is expected to be towards the top every year. But why do you think that is. Before Shanahan Denver was a team that could not win the final game. Shanahan came in and turned everything around.

This team looked like a team that was one year from Superbowl contention. Now you are going to throw us into the stone age.

I think Pat should change his last name to Davis.

I have been a fan since I was a little kid and now I can honestly say I do not know I will not enjoy seeing a team that Shanahan goes to beating up on Denver. WOW I never thought I would say something like that.

PAT your are a very dumb human being. Way to go #%$#%$#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tned
01-01-2009, 05:47 PM
Thanks Pat for making the dumbest decision in NFL history. Shanahan is what made the Broncos what it is. Yes Denver is expected to be towards the top every year. But why do you think that is. Before Shanahan Denver was a team that could not win the final game. Shanahan came in and turned everything around.

This team looked like a team that was one year from Superbowl contention. Now you are going to throw us into the stone age.

I think Pat should change his last name to Davis.

I have been a fan since I was a little kid and now I can honestly say I do not know I will not enjoy seeing a team that Shanahan goes to beating up on Denver. WOW I never thought I would say something like that.

PAT your are a very dumb human being. Way to go #%$#%$#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FWIW, Shanahan was only a piece of the puzzle. I heard a caller into KOA or the The Fan, can't remember which, that made a great point.

Shanahan wouldn't have won the SB without Elway.
Elway wouldn't have won the SB without TD
TD wouldn't have won the SB without Schereth and company on the line.

You can go on and on -- Smith, Mccaffrey, Sharpe -- but ultimately it is a team sport, including the coaching staff. To win it all, you need to have a LOT of pieces in place. Shanahan and TD might have been the final pieces that Denver needed to win it all, but it wasn't Shanahan alone.

I'm personally very mixed on this move, as I have posted elsewhere, but just like the people that state the fact that Shanahan has done nothing since Elway retired proves he isn't that good a coach, it is impossible to proclaim Shanahan as the best because the Broncos had a great three year stretch in the late '90s.

I think Shanahan is a great coach, and I think he has this team very close to being a great team. Whether or not he would have gotten it to the next level, like in the late '90s, we will now never know.

broken12
01-01-2009, 05:53 PM
shannanahan the gm got shannanigans the coach fired, period.blank

broken12
01-01-2009, 05:54 PM
only one to blame is shanahan himself, he stated directy after the game that no changes would be made on the staff, he should have said i'll take a look back at what happened this year and decide then, he was staying pat and that wasnt good enough for the man with the money!@

G_Money
01-01-2009, 06:16 PM
Thanks Pat for making the dumbest decision in NFL history. Shanahan is what made the Broncos what it is. Yes Denver is expected to be towards the top every year. But why do you think that is. Before Shanahan Denver was a team that could not win the final game. Shanahan came in and turned everything around.

This team looked like a team that was one year from Superbowl contention. Now you are going to throw us into the stone age.

I think Pat should change his last name to Davis.

I have been a fan since I was a little kid and now I can honestly say I do not know I will not enjoy seeing a team that Shanahan goes to beating up on Denver. WOW I never thought I would say something like that.

PAT your are a very dumb human being. Way to go #%$#%$#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First off, welcome to the board.

Secondly...I would have to disagree with you that we were 1 year from SB contention. Our defense gave up 52 points to an 8-8 San Diego team. The only offense with a middling defense to win a title recently was the Colts, and we are not the Colts yet, nor is our defense even middling - it's atrocious.

We had Atwater, Romo, Alfred Williams, Neil Smith, the under-rated Mobley and Crockett, and decent starters at the rest of the positions.

This defense has Champ and....um...DJ can be Mobley, I guess, and...nope, that's it right now.

That's hard to fix that much in a year. It can be done...but could it be done by Shanny? Shanahan's been reworking the D with entire draft classes, or the Browncos, or trades for corners, or FA pickups galore, and none of it has worked.

I agree with broken and others - GM Shanahan cost Coach Shanahan his job. He managed to finally stop listening to Sundquist and start listening to the Goodmans, unless we've just been ungodly lucky in 2 of the last 3 years, but he could never crack the defensive problems we've been plagued with.

Now it's somebody else's job. You're not wrong that this could backfire atrociously, but at some point you have to decide when to switch your approach when the last 10 years haven't gotten you where you want to go.

Bowlen decided that point was now. He didn't want to waste Cutler and the rest of the offense if the best Shanahan could do on defense was get together a group that would allow us to be annihilated in the playoffs.

Hopefully Bowlen picked the right time and can pick the right guy to finish the job Shanahan started.

Thank you Shanny - but go Broncos.

~G

Bozo Jr.
01-01-2009, 06:34 PM
Thanks Pat for making the dumbest decision in NFL history. Shanahan is what made the Broncos what it is. Yes Denver is expected to be towards the top every year. But why do you think that is. Before Shanahan Denver was a team that could not win the final game. Shanahan came in and turned everything around.

This team looked like a team that was one year from Superbowl contention. Now you are going to throw us into the stone age.

I think Pat should change his last name to Davis.

I have been a fan since I was a little kid and now I can honestly say I do not know I will not enjoy seeing a team that Shanahan goes to beating up on Denver. WOW I never thought I would say something like that.

PAT your are a very dumb human being. Way to go #%$#%$#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One playoff win in 10 years is hardly what I would call "winning the final game". Where have we gone since Kubes left?? Straight downhill.

We all Love, Respect, and Honor what Shanahan brought this franchise. But don't forget who was in charge of our personnel and who got us into this mess.

Please don't lose faith in the Orange and Blue! And for crying out loud, don't ever route against the Broncos. :salute:

Tned
01-01-2009, 06:51 PM
One playoff win in 10 years is hardly what I would call "winning the final game". Where have we gone since Kubes left?? Straight downhill.

We all Love, Respect, and Honor what Shanahan brought this franchise. But don't forget who was in charge of our personnel and who got us into this mess.

Please don't lose faith in the Orange and Blue! And for crying out loud, don't ever route against the Broncos. :salute:

He was saying that the Broncos BEFORE Shanahan couldn't win the final game, not that Shanahan couldn't.

CrazyHorse
01-01-2009, 07:47 PM
Jeff Fisher has had worse seasons and he's still a coach.
He's never won a Superbowl either.

dogfish
01-01-2009, 09:51 PM
Thanks Pat for making the dumbest decision in NFL history. Shanahan is what made the Broncos what it is. Yes Denver is expected to be towards the top every year. But why do you think that is. Before Shanahan Denver was a team that could not win the final game. Shanahan came in and turned everything around.

This team looked like a team that was one year from Superbowl contention. Now you are going to throw us into the stone age.

I think Pat should change his last name to Davis.

I have been a fan since I was a little kid and now I can honestly say I do not know I will not enjoy seeing a team that Shanahan goes to beating up on Denver. WOW I never thought I would say something like that.

PAT your are a very dumb human being. Way to go #%$#%$#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


over-react much?


:rolleyes:


mike shanahan had some damn good years here, but eventually denver fans are going to realize that he is NOT the only competent coach in the national football league. . . .

Denver Native (Carol)
01-01-2009, 09:58 PM
What really surprises me is that on the polls posted on the local tv sites, and the polls on the local newspaper sites, the response is overwhelming for Bowlen doing what he did. I just don't understand it.

haroldthebarrel
01-01-2009, 10:17 PM
Whats done is done.

We are pretty much in the same position to be as Indy did when they hired Dungy.
A great defensive mind who had to get the defense on cheap through the draft since the offense is talented and thus expensive. Same thing with our offensive talent.

Personally I put my voice out there and say Id be happy with the NE dude if we get Pioli or Gruden should he be fired.
Should we go the defensive way it is absolutely imperative that we find the talent and train them to be pros because our cap will be heavily favored towards the offense the next ten years. Unless we do stooooooopid trades and trade away Marshall and let Scheffler go or decisions in that alley.

My first choice is Spagnulo as he has shown he can find defensive line talent in all rounds and make a great offense. With him it would be imperative to keep Dennison and Turner.

In any circumstances there are a lot of decisions that hinges upon decisions and we better hope that we arent just put into a position to make the best of the worst or average deals.

haroldthebarrel
01-01-2009, 10:20 PM
What really surprises me is that on the polls posted on the local tv sites, and the polls on the local newspaper sites, the response is overwhelming for Bowlen doing what he did. I just don't understand it.

People learn to live with it, as their emotions are with the Broncos first and then Shanahan a distant second at best.
Thats the only logical reason behind it, because at best you are hoping that Bowlen find a HC and that guy he finds is another genious.
Which is filled with uncertainties to make me see this any more than a basically emotionally response more so than rational.
(And this applies to me as well if anybody feel the stupid need to point out that I am one of that group as well.)

Shazam!
01-01-2009, 11:43 PM
What really surprises me is that on the polls posted on the local tv sites, and the polls on the local newspaper sites, the response is overwhelming for Bowlen doing what he did. I just don't understand it.

The Broncos have needed this for a long time. After the past few seasons a change was sorely needed.

A Coach can overstay and get too comfortable.

A new challenge on a team that is a disaster or not too far away can be good for Shanahan.

A defensive-oriented Coach is what the Broncos desperately need.

I thank him for his help in bringing two Championships and making John a winner. I'll never forget Mike Shanahan.

This will turn out great for all involved, you will see.

Even Bill Bellichick won't Coach in NE forever either.

BroncoTech
01-02-2009, 03:44 AM
The video http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=highlights effects of a firing on how the team rallied together to petition the ownership to hire back George Allen when he was fired from the Rams. If George don't coach, we don't play! And the coach was re-hired.

I haven't seen the boys rally much this year so there goes that idea...

Seriously if the team couldn't survive without Shanny the boys could rally and get him back. Cutty sounded shocked and pissed the day of the firing yet in the presser Pat said he didn't express any of that when they spoke.

Those super bowl teams would have been superbowl teams with almost any coach. Shanny just made it look easier to win. I think he's a great coach but is the master mind really the master arm and the master feet? No doubt it was a team effort and they all deserve our kudos.

Tned
01-02-2009, 04:07 AM
The video http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=highlights effects of a firing on how the team rallied together to petition the ownership to hire back George Allen when he was fired from the Rams. If George don't coach, we don't play! And the coach was re-hired.

I haven't seen the boys rally much this year so there goes that idea...

Seriously if the team couldn't survive without Shanny the boys could rally and get him back. Cutty sounded shocked and pissed the day of the firing yet in the presser Pat said he didn't express any of that when they spoke.

Those super bowl teams would have been superbowl teams with almost any coach. Shanny just made it look easier to win. I think he's a great coach but is the master mind really the master arm and the master feet? No doubt it was a team effort and they all deserve our kudos.

The four major components that Shanahan brought to the table that helped win the championship:
Alex Gibbs as line coach -- implementing the ZBS
Drafting Terrell Davis
Bringing his brand of west coast offense/misdirection offense to John Elway
Picking up players like Ed McCaffrey and Mark Schlereth that were final pieces to the roster needed to win it all.

Dean
01-02-2009, 08:26 AM
The four major components that Shanahan brought to the table that helped win the championship:
Alex Gibbs as line coach -- implementing the ZBS
Drafting Terrell Davis
Bringing his brand of west coast offense/misdirection offense to John Elway
Picking up players like Ed McCaffrey and Mark Schlereth that were final pieces to the roster needed to win it all.


May I presume to add a few more.
5. An unmatched knowledge of offense to use formations, personnel, and
motion to get the match-up that you want.
6. In trades, he often got huge value.
7. Player indicate that he was always direct and honest with them an
unheard of trait in today's society. He treated his players as men
8. He was the first to see how to use free agency when it was
implimented into the NFL- unfortunately the cost became prohibitive.
9. He has had fantastic offensive success at every stop in his coaching
career.

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 11:50 AM
Every player in the Broncos locker room, most fans and TV/Football analyst/expert thinks Mike Shanahan should not have been fired.

Pat Bowlen will regret this decision. Mike Shanahan will haunt the Broncos for years on end.

topscribe
01-02-2009, 11:55 AM
Every player in the Broncos locker room, most fans and TV/Football analyst/expert thinks Mike Shanahan should not have been fired.

Pat Bowlen will regret this decision. Mike Shanahan will haunt the Broncos for years on end.

Which is very well possible.

However, I have kept close track of players' comments on this, and I have
not seen where the players have voiced their opinions on Shanny's termination,
other than to express shock. Moreover, I doubt they would do that, for obvious
reasons.

-----

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 12:49 PM
Which is very well possible.

However, I have kept close track of players' comments on this, and I have
not seen where the players have voiced their opinions on Shanny's termination,
other than to express shock. Moreover, I doubt they would do that, for obvious
reasons.

-----


Of course no player will outright come out and doubt their boss' decision on this matter. The "don't bite the hand that feeds you" rule. But any intelligible person can see the undertones.

If zero players expected it, it's likely zero players liked the decision.

Mike Shanahan's firing was an obvious knee jerk decision to Mickey's defiance in not looking to replace Slowick. A power trip if you will. There are a few hundred post concerning this. I will not get into it.

.

Medford Bronco
01-02-2009, 12:50 PM
For all the bottom line is since Cutler has been the starter the Broncos are 17-20
and their defense has gotten progressivlely worse.

Like I have said on numerous times. I appreciate what Shanny has done but
it was time for a change.


in this league you cant win with a defense that give up 25 plus ppg
ever or will not go very far in the playoffs (see Arizona)

This team needs to be a more well balanced unit before ever
even thinking about competing for another Super Bowl.

I hope Bowlen brings in the right guy. we shall see.

Also remember other HOF coaches have been fired or
forced out. Shula and Landry whose credentials are just
as good as Shannys both left their teams.

We shall see, as much as some dont like it, its a new era
and we IMHO should look forward and hope Bowlen does
the right thing. He does not fire coaches like Al Davis
so the new person will get a fair shot. Which is all
we would want if it were us starting a new job.

Go Broncos, take us into the new era and hopefully
lead us back to the promised land.

Sometimes you must take one step back before going
two steps forward.

LRtagger
01-02-2009, 12:55 PM
Good post Med

Medford Bronco
01-02-2009, 12:58 PM
Good post Med

Thanks, :salute:I am not as emotional about this as most are.

I just want what is best for Denver and that is
someone new I would think.

I also think this offense needs work as well.

too much praise is being thrown on them. they have
their own problems as well to a degree.

we are far from the 2007 Pats or 1998 broncos.

more consistency out of Cutler is huge and a
real running game like we had with TD or Portis
would help him immensley.

we shall see

broncophan
01-02-2009, 01:48 PM
While I don't agree with Shanahan being fired......I understand....that's the business......unfortunately.

We have a qb who has not even completed 3 full seasons as a starter......and whether we have a great defense or not.......expectations of this team doing any better than 24-24 over the last 3 seasons......are/were unrealistic.

GO BRONCOS!!!..............

BroncoWave
01-02-2009, 01:50 PM
If zero players expected it, it's likely zero players liked the decision.

That logic is ridiculous. I don't expect someone to come hand me a million dollars today but if someone does, damn skippy I'll like it.

Just because none of the players expected it doesn't mean that none of them like it. That's the most ridculous thing I've heard today.

ktrain
01-02-2009, 02:01 PM
Thanks, :salute:I am not as emotional about this as most are.

I just want what is best for Denver and that is
someone new I would think.

I also think this offense needs work as well.

too much praise is being thrown on them. they have
their own problems as well to a degree.

we are far from the 2007 Pats or 1998 broncos.

more consistency out of Cutler is huge and a
real running game like we had with TD or Portis
would help him immensley.

we shall see

Agree with all your points Med, I would say that Cutler's "inconsistency" usually coincides with no running game. In games where we consistently ran and played even or ahead, he was actually pretty damn good with the INT's. I think the main thing Cutler needs to improve on is his reads, he often misses the wide-open reads in favor of well covered ones. The two points are related, since, when the running game is lacking, he feels like he has to make something happen, which usually involves throwing into tight coverage.

We get Cutler a running game and reign him in on the incorrect reads and this Cutler will make Payton Manning look like Trent Dilfer

Dean
01-02-2009, 02:21 PM
Agree with all your points Med, I would say that Cutler's "inconsistency" usually coincides with no running game. In games where we consistently ran and played even or ahead, he was actually pretty damn good with the INT's.

However when there is no running game or we are behind is exactly when we need Cutler to perform at his best.


I think the main thing Cutler needs to improve on is his reads, he often misses the wide-open reads in favor of well covered ones. The two points are related, since, when the running game is lacking, he feels like he has to make something happen, which usually involves throwing into tight coverage.

I am not sure he misreads the defense. I am not sure he feels that he needs to read the defense. His eyes are on the receiver from the snap of the ball which leads me to believe that he intends to throw to that receiver without regard to the defense at all. I, also, believe that he doesn't care if the receiver is double, or sometimes triple, covered. I can't read his mind but those are my perceptions from watching video.


We get Cutler a running game and reign him in on the incorrect reads and this Cutler will make Payton Manning look like Trent Dilfer

IMO Cutler could be very good but making Manning look like Dilfer is way, way, over-statement. Cutler has the tools but I'm wondering about the temperament.

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 03:21 PM
We get Cutler a running game and reign him in on the incorrect reads and this Cutler will make Payton Manning look like Trent Dilfer


I highly doubt it but I like your optimism.

Bozo Jr.
01-02-2009, 03:25 PM
Cutler has the tools but I'm wondering about the temperament.

I agree, Jay seems to be getting more and more pessimistic in games. I understand he has a lot of pressure on his shoulders, but it is just another reminder that the franchise has to move on. Bringing in a new coach could change this attitude. A bitter, frustrated Cutler leads to a bitter and frustrated Denver Broncos. I love the guy, but he needs to relax a bit.

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 03:32 PM
Of course no player will outright come out and doubt their boss' decision on this matter. The "don't bite the hand that feeds you" rule. But any intelligible person can see the undertones.

If zero players expected it, it's likely zero players liked the decision.

Mike Shanahan's firing was an obvious knee jerk decision to Mickey's defiance in not looking to replace Slowick. A power trip if you will. There are a few hundred post concerning this. I will not get into it.

.



That logic is ridiculous. I don't expect someone to come hand me a million dollars today but if someone does, damn skippy I'll like it.

Just because none of the players expected it doesn't mean that none of them like it. That's the most ridculous thing I've heard today.


I was just speculating and I bet 90-95% of Broncos players did not like Pat Bowlen's decision to fire Mike Shanahan. If 90-95% of Broncos players did not like the decision then that makes my original statement 90-95% true. And if it's 90-95% true then that makes my statement practically 100% correct.

.

BroncoWave
01-02-2009, 03:46 PM
I was just speculating and I bet 90-95% of Broncos players did not like Pat Bowlen's decision to fire Mike Shanahan. If 90-95% of Broncos players did not like the decision then that makes my original statement 90-95% true. And if it's 90-95% true then that makes my statement practically 100% correct.

.

Anyone cal pull a number out of their ass. Your 90-95% number has absolutely no credibility. Unless you have something to back it up, you can shove those numbers right back up your ass. :coffee:

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 03:54 PM
Anyone cal pull a number out of their ass. Your 90-95% number has absolutely no credibility. Unless you have something to back it up, you can shove those numbers right back up your ass. :coffee:


You have to be smart to make sense of my speculations. You for one do not qualify... Son.

.

Tned
01-02-2009, 03:58 PM
You have to be smart to make sense of my speculations. You for one does not qualify... Son.

.

I think you meant:
"You for one do not qualify..."

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 04:08 PM
I think you meant:
"You for one do not qualify..."

Thanks Tned. I do need a personal spell/grammar checker for all my post.

BroncoWave
01-02-2009, 04:12 PM
Thanks Tned. I do need a personal spell/grammar checker for all my post.

If you're going to insult someone's intelligence, you would be best suited not to botch the grammar of the sentence in which you are doing the insulting. Just an FYI.

And I'm still waiting for anything from you to back up those fancy little percentages you pulled out of your ass. But no, I guess it's easier to just insult someone's intelligence than to actually produce facts. :coffee:

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 04:16 PM
If you're going to insult someone's intelligence, you would be best suited not to botch the grammar of the sentence in which you are doing the insulting. Just an FYI.

And I'm still waiting for anything from you to back up those fancy little percentages you pulled out of your ass. But no, I guess it's easier to just insult someone's intelligence than to actually produce facts. :coffee:


If you don't like my speculations or opinions, just move along. No need to hurl crap at one another.

.

Tned
01-02-2009, 04:18 PM
Thanks Tned. I do need a personal spell/grammar checker for all my post.

Rule of thumb, if you are going to insult another poster's intelligence, you should make every effort to not have typos while doing it. :D Just some friendly advice.

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 04:29 PM
Rule of thumb, if you are going to insult another poster's intelligence, you should make every effort to not have typos while doing it. :D Just some friendly advice.


Thanks for the advice Tned. But in my haste, I can give a rats arse about grammar. That is the other poster's job should he/she not have anything to respond with. Also, I wouldn't have anyone to debate with as I am always right.

Tned
01-02-2009, 04:39 PM
Thanks for the advice Tned. But in my haste, I can give a rats arse about grammar. That is the other poster's job should he/she not have anything to respond with. Also, I wouldn't have anyone to debate with as I am always right.

So, back to your source for the 90-95% of the players? :confused:

LordTrychon
01-02-2009, 04:42 PM
Roughly 87% of speculations are based off of 93% of one's own opinion more than reality...

Nature Boy
01-02-2009, 05:57 PM
So, back to your source for the 90-95% of the players? :confused:


Roughly 87% of speculations are based off of 93% of one's own opinion more than reality...


Tned, what Mr. LordTrychon said, he's pretty smart. It's my speculation based on what I know and think and as we all know, I am always right. :D :elefant:

.

Shazam!
01-02-2009, 11:06 PM
Theory- '90-95% of Broncos players didn't agree with Shanahan's firing'

Another theory- It could be because of the Club Med atmosphere in Denver as opposed to a hard nosed workhorse Coach who would work his players to the bone. Maybe they fear a guy like that coming in.

Dean
01-03-2009, 08:40 AM
Here is an article that sheds some light on both sides of the firing.



Step down from Shanahan isn't inevitable by Rocky Mountain News

Updated: January 3, 2009, 7:30 AM EST add this RSS blog email Print Local sportswriters in 2019, assuming there still are local sportswriters in 2019, will very likely conclude that firing Mike Shanahan was a mistake.

That's because his successor, by the law of averages, is unlikely to have a record as good as his. Shanahan is tied for 15th on the list of career NFL coaching victories. He won 62 percent of his games with the Broncos. That will be hard to match.
The list of legendary coaches succeeded by less-legendary coaches is long and distinguished. And, of course, undistinguished, too.

The most common reflex throughout the years has been to hire the departed legend's defensive coordinator. The Packers did this after Vince Lombardi, the Redskins after Joe Gibbs (the first time), the 49ers after Bill Walsh. Phil Bengtson and Richie Petitbon didn't work out so well, but George Seifert won two Super Bowls for the Niners. As in baseball, one out of three ain't bad.

Wade Phillips is the Forrest Gump of this category, having replaced his father, Bum, in New Orleans, Marv Levy in Buffalo, Bill Parcells in Dallas and Dan Reeves in both Denver and Atlanta. As it happens, he's not available to perform this stunt for a sixth time - at least, not at the moment.

Unfortunately, naming your defensive coordinator generally requires a respectable defense. The Broncos don't have one of those, so this option is out. Far from being a candidate to replace Shanahan, defensive coordinator and old friend Bob Slowik is possibly one of the reasons for his departure.

But the disappointing successor is not always a defensive coordinator. The Vikings replaced legendary Bud Grant with Les Steckel, an offensive assistant.

On the bright side, a step down is not inevitable. The Steelers replaced Chuck Noll with Bill Cowher, a young defensive coordinator from another organization. Compared with Noll's four Super Bowl championships in 23 seasons, Cowher's one in 14 still represents a decline, but, like Shanahan, he won 62 percent of his regular-season games.

The Cowboys replaced legendary Tom Landry with a hot young college coach, Jimmy Johnson of the University of Miami, who also happened to be a former college teammate of the man doing the hiring, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones. Landry won two Super Bowls in 29 years. Johnson needed only five seasons to win as many.

So it's possible that Broncos owner Pat Bowlen will be able to find a "10," to use his own description, to succeed the winningest coach in Broncos history, but the odds are against it. The history makes it likely a review of the won-loss records 10 years from now will make the Shanahan firing look like a bad idea.

But that doesn't mean it was. As usual, the numbers don't tell the whole story.

Bowlen's inability to articulate just why he chose to fire Shanahan now, after saying for years he could stay as long as he liked, had two possible ROOT causes.

One is his preference to keep private differences private. Shanahan is the same way. Even in his final news conference, he refused to discuss what went wrong with his 29th-ranked defense. To the end, he was not going to acknowledge mistakes or internal differences publicly.

It's been suggested that Bowlen wanted a reduction in Shanahan's executive portfolio or changes in his defensive staff. He denied both, but given the tight-lipped nature of the organization, that doesn't tell us much.

The other possible reason Bowlen didn't explain just why he fired his old friend is that he couldn't. When a single executive acquires all the power and titles within an organization, as Shanahan did with the Broncos, an arrogance of authority develops almost inevitably.

It happened to Reeves, too. In fact, Shanahan chafed under Reeves' omnipotence as much as anyone chafed under his.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," Lord Acton wrote more than a century ago. Often, despite the best of intentions, the omnipotent executive becomes an autocrat, stifling dissent, sometimes inadvertently, through intimidation. The absence of competing views, in turn, becomes an impediment to the pursuit of excellence.

Shanahan's refusal to admit that his team had become defensively helpless was a reflection of this phenomenon. Were he to walk into the current Broncos situation with no previous experience here, it's my opinion that Shanahan would replace almost everything he found on the defensive side of the ball in short order. But because everything on the defensive side of the ball, like everything else in the organization, is a result of Shanahan's own design, he had too much pride of authorship to do what needed to be done.

Sometimes, as Bowlen suggested, an executive can simply be in a place long enough. Sometimes, the burden of past decisions becomes a prison that prevents the clarity of thought a fresh perspective can bring.

That doesn't make it any easier to find a successor as good as the original. And it doesn't change the likelihood that Shanahan's firing will one day look like a mistake.

But that won't make it so. Sometimes, the weight of the history itself is reason enough.