Humorous Orton/Tebow analysis

[Dean]

This brought a smile to my face. I hope that it does the same for you.
:D



http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/6846531/tim-tebow-not-ready-prime-time

[Jsteve01]

uh oh

[Lancane]

Elway says the right things...too bad he didn't tell them come the draft in April that we'll be taking the heir apparent to the quarterback position in that draft.

:lol:

[lgenf]

Another article written by someone that predisposed TT's pro future before the draft

No big surprise there

[Lancane]

Another article written by someone that predisposed TT's pro future before the draft

No big surprise there

I had some hope for the kid as well...

But if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, smells like a duck...then usually it's a duck, or a swan with multiple personality!

[topscribe]

I had some hope for the kid as well...

But if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, smells like a duck...then usually it's a duck, or a swan with multiple personality!

You been going around and smelling ducks again?

-----

[Lancane]

You been going around and smelling ducks again?

-----

You know me...sometimes it's good to get back to nature! :lol:

[Shananahan]

The picture in that article is just perfect.

[MOtorboat]

Reilly is an excellent writer. Why do I know that? Because people get so mad at what he says...

Oh, and because my uncle is an acquaintance of his going back to Boulder HS...

[Buff]

I found this very interesting:


The entire locker room wants Orton. In the NFL, you have to start the guy the players think they can win behind. They see. They watch film. They know what's working. "If they picked Tebow now," said a source within the team, "the coaching staff would totally lose the players."

The other way you know it's over is that Orton is talking to Tebow again. He didn't talk to him all last year. He told people it was because Tebow was a "rookie," but it was more than that. Tebow, ever gracious, kept talking with reporters every day. A lot of the players thought he should've stopped, in deference to the starter, Orton, who was getting scrums one-tenth the size.

[BeefStew25]

A couple of thoughts:

1) Tebow is worse than he thinks he is.

2) Orton is worse than he thinks he is.

Man it would be cool if Quinn finally 'got it' so I could stare at his sister during games.

[Slick]

I agree Mo... I like rick.

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[BeefStew25]

Rick mails in columns when he isn't talking about the Broncos.

[Slick]

He loves the donkeys.

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[BeefStew25]

He loves the donkeys.

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That is why I can't hate him.

Like Colin Cowherd. Probably a douche, but he has like a 40 minute lecture on why Elway was the greatest QB ever.

[camdisco24]

I feel like this was another "tell us something we don't already know" article. We know Reilly hates Tebow, and we know Orton looks great in practice. Cool lingo though, made it seem a little interesting.

[Dzone]

Looks like Pile On Tebow Time...kick him when he is down..People love to see famous people fail

[MOtorboat]

A couple of thoughts:

1) Tebow is worse than he thinks he is.

2) Orton is worse than he thinks he is.

Man it would be cool if Quinn finally 'got it' so I could stare at his sister during games.

If King Neckbeard was KingQuinn...

I just ****** your mother...then I ****** your brother...BOOSH!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So Orton was more polished in the scrimmage, playing against the 2nd team defense (while Tebow played vs the 1st string - you know the two "unblockable" pass rushers he mentions), and all he managed was 2 field goals and a hook slide at the 3 yard line in a game where YOU CAN'T HIT THE QB? Orton could've strolled into the endzone and at least made it look good even if he would've been "touched down" just short instead of hook sliding in a NO CONTACT scrimmage.

We shall see. We shall see. We're dreadfully stuck in the bad situation that we will to pick the prettiest girl to take to the dance even though she doesn't want to go with you but lost a bet and the one slightly less pretty is more likely to put out afterward... and be good at it.

[jlarsiii]

So Orton was more polished in the scrimmage, playing against the 2nd team offense (while Tebow played vs the 1st string - you know the two "unblockable" pass rushers he mentions), and all he managed was 2 field goals and a hook slide at the 3 yard line in a game where YOU CAN'T HIT THE QB? Orton could've strolled into the endzone and at least made it look good even if he would've been "touched down" just short instead of hook sliding in a NO CONTACT scrimmage.

We shall see. We shall see. We're dreadfully stuck in the bad situation that we will to pick the prettiest girl to take to the dance even though she doesn't want to go with you but lost a bet and the one slightly less pretty is more likely to put out afterward... and be good at it.

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

Perhaps, but I'd settle for a starting QB that leaves it all on the field and plays to win, not to avoid being hit... :coffee:

[BeefStew25]

Perhaps, but I'd settle for a starting QB that leaves it all on the field and plays to win, not to avoid being hit... :coffee:

I feel like we are getting to the point where we aren't looking at any evidence of Tebow's limitations.

Is Fox wrong? Is Elway wrong? Is Xanders wrong?

They probably would start him if things were even close with Horton.

[MOtorboat]

Perhaps, but I'd settle for a starting QB that leaves it all on the field and plays to win, not to avoid being hit... :coffee:

While I think Orton leaves some things to be desired, I think its kind of ridiculous to categorize his play on one or two plays and then hyperbolize how often it happened.

I actually like that Orton is more confident and more defiant. He's starting to get that attitude.

Quinn has been performing well, but I love Orton's confidence and defiance. Love it.

Tebow? He sucks.

[BeefStew25]

Sandy Clough mentioned that a team official told him that their QB of the future is currently not on the roster.

I guess we just have to realize that you just can't turn it on in the pros. It isn't a light switch.

Maybe a dimmer switch. Like the circular knob ones. But not your traditional on/off button used in most American households.

[jlarsiii]

Perhaps, but I'd settle for a starting QB that leaves it all on the field and plays to win, not to avoid being hit... :coffee:

First, I agree with Beef's multiple posts above.

Second, I also want a QB with a will to win. I want to be clear though. I want a QB who actually has the skills to play QB in the NFL as well. All the will to win doesn't mean squat if you are better suited to play FB. . .

[BeefStew25]

While I think Orton leaves some things to be desired, I think its kind of ridiculous to categorize his play on one or two plays and then hyperbolize how often it happened.

I actually like that Orton is more confident and more defiant. He's starting to get that attitude.

Quinn has been performing well, but I love Orton's confidence and defiance. Love it.

Tebow? He sucks.

Hedge your bets midget. Don't use the word 'suck' in the event Tebow lights the world on fire.

[MOtorboat]

Hedge your bets midget. Don't use the word 'suck' in the event Tebow lights the world on fire.

I'm not worried about it.

[jlarsiii]

Hedge your bets midget. Don't use the word 'suck' in the event Tebow lights the world on fire.

Would love to see Tebow do it but really doubt it at this point in time.

[BeefStew25]

I'm not worried about it.

Well, use the word 'suck' when you describe McD. I havent heard you do that yet. And check you email. I have a mission for you. I hope you accept.

[MOtorboat]

Well, use the word 'suck' when you describe McD. I havent heard you do that yet. And check you email. I have a mission for you. I hope you accept.

McDaniels sucks.

Did you use my hotmail address?

[Buff]

Well, use the word 'suck' when you describe McD. I havent heard you do that yet. And check you email. I have a mission for you. I hope you accept.

What kind of service do you need from Mo?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

First, I agree with Beef's multiple posts above.

Second, I also want a QB with a will to win. I want to be clear though. I want a QB who actually has the skills to play QB in the NFL as well. All the will to win doesn't mean squat if you are better suited to play FB. . .

I agree with your second point, but of all the QBs I've seen suit up in Denver since 1983, Orton is the one most lacking with those "skills" you mention.

In referring to Beef's post, I guess he didn't watch a lot of Broncos football back in 1983 when Elway was absolutely awful as he learned to play pro football and adapt his game. Good thing we didn't write him off easily as a guy who didn't have the skills. This isn't rocket science, it's football. I'd rather have a guy who can play football over a guy who is a practice queen. Just like I'd rather have a guy who has won some games vice a guy who has continually been benched/shipped off throughout his career to be replaced by someone better.

Folks can say Tebow sucks, and he's better suited for FB and so on, but guys said the same shit about Mike Vick after he was drafted. Runs too much, inaccurate, can't read defenses, lots of intagibles but can't win from the pocket, etc, etc, etc. Lo and behold what he's become with a little game-time experience and a little coaching...

[BeefStew25]

I agree with your second point, but of all the QBs I've seen suit up in Denver since 1983, Orton is the one most lacking with those "skills" you mention.

In referring to Beef's post, I guess he didn't watch a lot of Broncos football back in 1983 when Elway was absolutely awful as he learned to play pro football and adapt his game. Good thing we didn't write him off as easily as a guy who didn't have the skills. This isn't rocket science, it's football. I'd rather have a guy who can play football over a guy who is a practice queen. Just like I'd rather have a guy who has won some games vice a guy who has continually been benched/shipped off throughout his career to be replaced by someone better.

Folks can say Tebow sucks, and he's better suited for FB and so one, but guys said the same shit about Mike Vick after he was drafted. Runs too much, inaccurate, can't read defenses, lots of intagibles but can't win from the pocket, etc, etc, etc. Lo and behold what he's become with a little game-time experience and a little coaching...

I am a Tebow agnostic at this point. Please, show me some proof.

[BeefStew25]

What kind of service do you need from Mo?

I don't know if he is up for it. He seems to have gained a severe case of Napoleon Complex.

[BeefStew25]

I agree with your second point, but of all the QBs I've seen suit up in Denver since 1983, Orton is the one most lacking with those "skills" you mention.

In referring to Beef's post, I guess he didn't watch a lot of Broncos football back in 1983 when Elway was absolutely awful as he learned to play pro football and adapt his game. Good thing we didn't write him off easily as a guy who didn't have the skills. This isn't rocket science, it's football. I'd rather have a guy who can play football over a guy who is a practice queen. Just like I'd rather have a guy who has won some games vice a guy who has continually been benched/shipped off throughout his career to be replaced by someone better.

Folks can say Tebow sucks, and he's better suited for FB and so on, but guys said the same shit about Mike Vick after he was drafted. Runs too much, inaccurate, can't read defenses, lots of intagibles but can't win from the pocket, etc, etc, etc. Lo and behold what he's become with a little game-time experience and a little coaching...

I will also make this point. You bash Orton. That is fine. He isn't long for the Broncos.

But that is also telling. Tebow can't beat out Orton, who you say sucks.

I am with Sany Clough. None of these guys may be the answer. But, I will enjoy the drama. It is very compelling.

(Now I will sound like Junior Whiz)

adn know yu no some ting. claz iz in sezzion.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I am a Tebow agnostic at this point. Please, show me some proof.

A 17 point comeback win in his second game as a starter and an 81 passer rating in the games he did start (better than our previous starting QB's rating) as well as keeping the team competitive against the team with the #1 offense and defense last year isn't enough just to give him a shot to prove it? Especially when we know we're rebuilding and the only thing that is certain is that Orton isn't part of that future?

It just doesn't make sense to me to stifle Tebow's game time experience so we can maybe win one or two more games this year. Especially when there's no proof that Orton will actually do a better job. Orton was 3-10 with the same team that Tebow was 1-3 with. Is there supporting proof either way? Can you somehow find something in there to prove Orton gives us a better chance of winning or are you just suckling at the teet of what some media guys say?

Please show me proof that Orton is better at winning games and I'll gladly shut my hole. Until then, It's a toss up and we're wasting time and money trying to appease Brandon Lloyd before he leaves at the end of the year to pursue FA with his buddy Orton.

[jlarsiii]

I agree with your second point, but of all the QBs I've seen suit up in Denver since 1983, Orton is the one most lacking with those "skills" you mention.

In referring to Beef's post, I guess he didn't watch a lot of Broncos football back in 1983 when Elway was absolutely awful as he learned to play pro football and adapt his game. Good thing we didn't write him off easily as a guy who didn't have the skills. This isn't rocket science, it's football. I'd rather have a guy who can play football over a guy who is a practice queen. Just like I'd rather have a guy who has won some games vice a guy who has continually been benched/shipped off throughout his career to be replaced by someone better.

Folks can say Tebow sucks, and he's better suited for FB and so on, but guys said the same shit about Mike Vick after he was drafted. Runs too much, inaccurate, can't read defenses, lots of intagibles but can't win from the pocket, etc, etc, etc. Lo and behold what he's become with a little game-time experience and a little coaching...

For the love of all that is holy please do not tell me you just compared Tebow to Elway. Shame on you. . .

Tebow will never be Elway. NEVER. . .

He can not throw from the pocket. He can not read defenses. He can not go through progressions. He sure as hell does not have his head up looking for receivers when he decides to escape the pocket and tuck the ball and run. He can not take a snap and do a simple three step drop without having to think about it. And he sure as hell isn't Mike Vick either because if he was then he would easily beat out Orton, right???? At least Vick was elusive and could avoid the hit but even then he got injured running the ball, and what do you think would happen to Tebow? He won't even last half a season. He couldn't even make it through the pre-season last fall, and that is who you believe in? Seriously?

[BeefStew25]

A 17 point comeback win in his second game as a starter and an 81 passer rating in the games he did start (better than our previous starting QB's rating) as well as keeping the team competitive against the team with the #1 offense and defense last year isn't enough just to give him a shot to prove it? Especially when we know we're rebuilding and the only thing that is certain is that Orton isn't part of that future?

It just doesn't make sense to me to stifle Tebow's game time experience so we can maybe win one or two more games this year. Especially when there's no proof that Orton will actually do a better job. Orton was 3-10 with the same team that Tebow was 1-3 with. Is there supporting proof either way? Can you somehow find something in there to prove Orton gives us a better chance of winning or are you just suckling at the teet of what some media guys say?

Please show me proof that Orton is better at winning games and I'll gladly shut my hole. Until then, It's a toss up and we're wasting time and money trying to appease Brandon Lloyd before he leaves at the end of the year to pursue FA with his buddy Orton.

Then why is he getting his ass kicked by Brady Quinn?

Seriously. I want him to start. But it has to be close to even, and it really isn't.

There is tape on Tebow. Pro defense's will eat him up, I think (Mo, always hedge your bets).

But, when we need a QB that can push an Escalade up a hill, he is all pro.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

For the love of all that is holy please do not tell me you just compared Tebow to Elway. Shame on you. . .

Tebow will never be Elway. NEVER. . .

He can not throw from the pocket. He can not read defenses. He can not go through progressions. He sure as hell does not have his head up looking for receivers when he decides to escape the pocket and tuck the ball and run. He can not take a snap and do a simple three step drop without having to think about it. And he sure as hell isn't Mike Vick either because if he was then he would easily beat out Orton, right???? At least Vick was elusive and could avoid the hit but even then he got injured running the ball, and what do you think would happen to Tebow? He won't even last half a season. He couldn't even make it through the pre-season last fall, and that is who you believe in? Seriously?

So I'm supposed to believe in the QB who has NEVER IN HIS PROFESSIONAL CAREER STARTED ALL 16 GAMES? A guy who is PROVEN to have one of the worst 3rd down conversion percentages and worst passer ratings in the 4th quarter than just about anyone else in the league?

You keep pointing out what Tebow can't do in practice, but you seem oblivious to what he actually did as a starter in 3 games last year. Lets see, better passer rating than every other rookie QB starter and our current "starter". The offense averaged more points with him starting than they did the previous 13 games. Coincidence? Luck? Divine intervention? Maybe Tebow can just play football despite his unorthodox throwing motion and the fact that he's still learning to read defenses, fix his footwork and drops, and not take the big hits when he doesn't have to.

And no, with all the reasoning you're using, Mike Vick never would've beaten out Orton his first year or two because he couldn't do the things you listed well, either. Funny how he led the Falcons to the playoffs in his second year after he'd had some time under his belt. Not because he could read a defense, do a proper 3 step drop, throw well from the pocket, or keep his head up and look for receivers when he scrambled, but because he was a gamer and his intangibles made up for his lack of "technique".

He's pretty good now, though. Amazing what a little bit of coaching and some game reps will do for a guy who is "raw" but gifted.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Then why is he getting his ass kicked by Brady Quinn?

Seriously. I want him to start. But it has to be close to even, and it really isn't.

There is tape on Tebow. Pro defense's will eat him up, I think (Mo, always hedge your bets).

But, when we need a QB that can push an Escalade up a hill, he is all pro.

But, but by everyone's reasoning if he was getting his ass kicked by Quinn, why is Quinn the #3 guy? Politics? Pressure from the fans? If it was those reasons, Tebow would be starting, not Orton. You can't have it both ways. Orton is soooo much better than Tebow so he's #1. But, Quinn is behind Tebow even though Quinn is soooo much better? :confused:

Once again, and I'll type slowly - I DON'T CARE HOW ORTON LOOKS IN CAMP BUT WE KNOW HOW HE LOOKS ON GAME DAY. ORTON IS NOT OUR FUTURE SO WHY WASTE VALUABLE GAME EXPERIENCE ON HIM. Tebow, Quinn, Joe Shit the Ragman, I don't care... just somebody who isn't and will never be our future at QB.

I'd love to see Quinn start. I know what we get with Orton and it's not good enough. It wasn't good enough in Chicago (one of the most QB anemic teams who looked for a QB, and would start any QB, for 20 years). Orton is not our future and I'm tired of watching my Broncos knowingly put a sub-par product on the field at the QB position. If Tebow ain't it, great, but I'd like to know. If it ain't Quinn, great, then we need to draft a guy. I don't give a shit about practice reps, until the bullets start flying we just won't know what we have in either Tebow or Quinn.

[jlarsiii]

So I'm supposed to believe in the QB who has NEVER IN HIS PROFESSIONAL CAREER STARTED ALL 16 GAMES? A guy who is PROVEN to have one of the worst 3rd down conversion percentages and worst passer ratings in the 4th quarter than just about anyone else in the league?

You keep pointing out what Tebow can't do in practice, but you seem oblivious to what he actually did as a starter in 3 games last year. Lets see, better passer rating than every other rookie QB starter and our current "starter". The offense averaged more points with him starting than they did the previous 13 games. Coincidence? Luck? Divine intervention? Maybe Tebow can just play football and despite his unorthodox throwing motion and the fact that he's still learning to read defenses, fix his footwork and drops, and not take the big hits when he doesn't have to.

And no, with all the reasoning you're using, Mike Vick never would've beaten out Orton his first year or two because he couldn't do the things you listed well, either. Funny how he led the Falcons to the playoffs in his second year after he'd had some time under his belt. Not because he could read a defense, do a proper 3 step drop, throw well from the pocket, or keep his he up and look for receivers when he scrambled, but because he was a gamer and his intangibles made up for his lack of "technique".

He's pretty good now, though. Amazing what a little bit of coaching and some game reps will do for a guy who is "raw" but gifted.

Well, to me at least part of your post made sense. I am not asking you to believe in Orton. It is clear you do not. So I do not understand why you make any kind of deal about whether Orton has started a full season because I never even made mention of that. If you have a hangup about that then it is entirely on you.

Second, go ahead and debase his conversion percentage etcetera, but I will hold out judgement on him until he has a capable supporting cast around him along with a competent play caller. McNumbnuts was an r-tard so it is impossible to remove him from the equation when trying to determine Orton's responibility in the failings of last year (to go along with dropped passes etc.).

Third, I can not reply to how Tebow performed last year. I never got to see him play. So I can't make comment on how or what he did or didn't do.

Lastly, Tebow is not Vick either. If he was then I could at least contemplate the argument that so many have about Tebow staring, but sadly Tebow is not Vick so your argument has no merit.

I do not dislike Tebow, rather I just see him for what he is which is a situational FB at best. How come you can't see that? The bottom line is that the FO has put Orton as the 1st string QB for a reason and Tebow has to fend off Brady to keep 2nd string. The reason is that Tebow is not capable of being the QB that the FO wants or needs. Make all the arguments you want, debase Orton all you want, compare Tebow to Vick or whoever else you want, but the fact remains that Tebow is an inferior QB to Orton in the eyes of the FO and that is all that matters. . .

Multi-year project does not beat out incumbent starter. . .Shocker!!

[jlarsiii]

But, but by everyone's reasoning if he was getting his ass kicked by Quinn, why is Quinn the #3 guy? Politics? Pressure from the fans? If it was those reasons, Tebow would be starting, not Orton. You can't have it both ways. Orton is soooo much better than Tebow so he's #1. But, Quinn is behind Tebow even though Quinn is soooo much better? :confused:

Once again, and I'll type slowly - I DON'T CARE HOW ORTON LOOKS IN CAMP BUT WE KNOW HOW HE LOOKS ON GAME DAY. ORTON IS NOT OUR FUTURE SO WHY WASTE VALUABLE GAME EXPERIENCE ON HIM. Tebow, Quinn, Joe Shit the Ragman, I don't care... just somebody who isn't and will never be our future at QB.

I'd love to see Quinn start. I know what we get with Orton and it's not good enough. It wasn't good enough in Chicago (one of the most QB anemic teams who looked for a QB, and would start any QB, for 20 years). Orton is not our future and I'm tired of watching my Broncos knowingly put a sub-par product on the field at the QB position. If Tebow ain't it, great, but I'd like to know. If it ain't Quinn, great, then we need to draft a guy. I don't give a shit about practice reps, until the bullets start flying we just won't know what we have in either Tebow or Quinn.

I figure it is the rules. If they want to use Tebow in goal line packages or the like then he has to be the 2nd string so that Orton can re-enter the game. It is the only reason I can think of outside of actually getting to see them practice day in and day out (which I don't get to living so far away).

Question, if Orton is "not good enough" but he is clearly winning the starting position battle with Tebow then what does that make Tebow?

[jlarsiii]

Sorry, will have to bow out for the night. I have had way too much to drink and am having a hard time typing let alone thinking. I hope I have not been personal in my posts. Have a good night bronco-land!!!

[NorCalBronco7]

I'd love to see Quinn start......

:faint:

[UrbanBounca]

The reason I want Tebow is because I remember Orton not being productive inside the RZ. Also, giving up on his team. It's unfortunate that most fans have a short memory. It's time to give Tebow a shot. Win, lose, or draw, we need that change.

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[HORSEPOWER 56]

Well, to me at least part of your post made sense. I am not asking you to believe in Orton. It is clear you do not. So I do not understand why you make any kind of deal about whether Orton has started a full season because I never even made mention of that. If you have a hangup about that then it is entirely on you.

I was responding to you pointing out that Tebow got injured in the preseason running the ball.


Second, go ahead and debase his conversion percentage etcetera, but I will hold out judgement on him until he has a capable supporting cast around him along with a competent play caller. McNumbnuts was an r-tard so it is impossible to remove him from the equation when trying to determine Orton's responibility in the failings of last year (to go along with dropped passes etc.).

My reasoning is simply that regardless of McDouchebag's poor coaching, Orton was given every opportunity to boost his stats in a pass-first offense and succeed. Orton threw up great stats until it came time to drive the length of the field and win games. In that situation he was 1 for 6. He beat Tennessee, lost to the Jets on a fumbled snap, threw a pick vs Jax, threw a pick vs SF, went 4 and out vs St Louis, and went 4 and out vs the Chiefs.

I'm not asking for miracles here. I'm not asking for him to score 60 points to Oakland's 59. I'm not asking him to cover for the inept defense. I'm just asking that when the defense keeps him in games and gives the Broncos a chance to win in the fourth quarter that he NOT choke it away time and time again. That he raise his game and compete instead of falling apart.


Third, I can not reply to how Tebow performed last year. I never got to see him play. So I can't make comment on how or what he did or didn't do.

Fair enough. Before you judge him too harshly maybe you should look at the Tebow clips on NFL.com from his starts last year.


Lastly, Tebow is not Vick either. If he was then I could at least contemplate the argument that so many have about Tebow staring, but sadly Tebow is not Vick so your argument has no merit.

How do you mean? Literally no, Tebow is not Michael Vick, but the similarities are striking. A spread option college QB who dominated the game with his ability to run the ball and still had a good enough arm to amass very respectable passing numbers. Neither were experience playing in a pro-type offense or had real experience going through progressions (neither did Sam Bradford or Colt McCoy in college either, both had to look to the sidelines for their pre-snap read). Other than the fact that Vick is fast enough to outrun most guys and Tebow is big enough to run some guys over, their styles are extremely similar as they are to Vince Young. The big difference between Vince Young and Tebow? Vince Young has no work ethic and very little maturity. That's why he failed in Tennessee, not because he couldn't do it physically.


I do not dislike Tebow, rather I just see him for what he is which is a situational FB at best. How come you can't see that?

Maybe for the same reason that nobody else other than those who are really pulling for him to fail see that. Sure, his throwing motion isn't pretty. Neither is Phillip Rivers'. Neither was Brett Favre's. Neither was Bernie Kosar's. Know who has a perfectly technically sound throwing motion? Ryan Leaf. In the final three games of last year I saw a guy who was learning on the fly but even when things didn't go his way, he never got down, never let the team get down, led from the front, fired up the team, averaged more points than we had all year as an offense, and restored some semblance of hope to the fanbase. That's why I don't see him as a "situational FB". I guess Hillis is just a "situational FB", too.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I figure it is the rules. If they want to use Tebow in goal line packages or the like then he has to be the 2nd string so that Orton can re-enter the game. It is the only reason I can think of outside of actually getting to see them practice day in and day out (which I don't get to living so far away).

Question, if Orton is "not good enough" but he is clearly winning the starting position battle with Tebow then what does that make Tebow?

That rule no longer exists. The rule this year is that teams can dress 3 QBs and any QB can come in at any time.

[Ravage!!!]

Lets just accept that Tebow is NOT ready. He wasn't ready coming out of college, and hasn't improved that status. Its that simple.

[Canmore]

I figure it is the rules. If they want to use Tebow in goal line packages or the like then he has to be the 2nd string so that Orton can re-enter the game. It is the only reason I can think of outside of actually getting to see them practice day in and day out (which I don't get to living so far away).

Question, if Orton is "not good enough" but he is clearly winning the starting position battle with Tebow then what does that make Tebow?

If I got it right, under the new CBA, the third string quarterback can play at anytime and the first and second string quarterbacks can still re-enter the game. So this has no bearing on whether Tebow is second or third string. He can play third string with out taking one of the 45 men spots on game day.

[chazoe60]

It sucks to have to settle for the likes of eyOrton because the other two can't beat him. But, we haven't even seen game action yet. Remember how awful Orton played in his first preseason with us?

I'm of the opinion that our franchise QB is not yet wearing a Broncos uni. I think Tebow could have been but he won't get a shot. He'll see some action because it's a good bet that bOrton won't finish the season, he never does. But he won't see enough action to override the fact that one of the best QB classes in decades is staring us in the face and we'll probably have a top ten pick to play with.

It's still a tough pill to swallow that this is pretty much looking like a throw away season in terms of the QB position. People keep screaming at fans to just get behind the Mopey one but to me it just feels like being asked to settle. We've been settling for scraps at the QB position for too damn long IMHO.

[BroncoStud]

Boy some of you sure seem to have it all figured out...

It's a LONG season, a very long season. Tom Brady didn't beat out Drew Bledsoe, Drew got hurt and Tom got his chance. The same things they are saying about Tebow now were said about a guy named Steve Young when he was drafted by Tampa Bay.

How many times did you guys see Big Ben checkdown his rookie season? Make the proper progressions? He wasn't polished but he was still talented enough to win.

The Mike Vick comparison is absurd. Vick was drafted as the savior of Atlanta, they were starved for starpower and someone to cheer for, and they got him. It still took him years to develop and it wasn't until he got out of prison that he appeared to have the patience and interest in learing how to truly be an NFL QB.

Matt Cassel was a backup his entire career, college and pro, now he is the starter and a borderline Pro Bowler for the Chiefs because Tom Brady got hurt and HE got his opportunity, and no one on this board can even begin to claim that Matt Cassel has near the talent Tim Tebow has, and probably not the work ethic.

We knew Tebow was a project when he was drafted. Tom Brady, Mike Vick, Matt Cassel, Big Ben, NONE of those guys would have beaten out a 7 year vet who has 3 years in the system, and 60 starts under his belt in this year's camp going into their 2nd season of which they got no reps during the past season, it wouldn't happen.

What if Orton gets hurt early in the year and Tebow guides Denver to 8 or 9 wins? What if Tebow got his chance, and just won games, made plays, scrambled for first downs, moved the chains, and most importantly scored points? In 3 games he averaged more points than Orton has over the course of his career. So is it IMPOSSIBLE that Tebow, with all his poor mechanics and rawness would succeed if given the opportunity? Hell no. No one can claim that with any accuracy.

Like I said, it's a damn long season and chances are Tebow will get his opportunity, so I wouldn't be so quick to write him off. The media loves to pile on GOOD guys because they make easy targets, I would love nothing more than for Tim Tebow to shut them up and play his ass off when he gets his chance.

[Ravage!!!]

It's still a tough pill to swallow that this is pretty much looking like a throw away season in terms of the QB position. People keep screaming at fans to just get behind the Mopey one but to me it just feels like being asked to settle. We've been settling for scraps at the QB position for too damn long IMHO.

Thats just how it is. Teams don't replace a HoF QB very quickly. Look how long it's taken Buffalo, Miami, and San Fran. Look how long it took Pittsburgh. Indianapolis didn't have one FOREVER before Manning, and neither did the Saints. How many years did San Diego have to wait?

We had the QB that would have been considered a top QB to replace our HoF QB, and we traded him away. Teams generally have to be in position to draft a top QB to find that guy, and when you finish with 10 wins a year (like we did with Shanahan most of the time). You can't get that top guy.

The reality is, the QB is the most important position in football, and in order to find "that guy" you have to have a bad season in a year there is TOP talent at QB. Luck has a lot to do with it as well. Carolina had a terrible year with poor QB talent while San Diego was the worst in a year with TONS of top QBs in the draft. Indianapolis had its worst season at just the right time, and whomever ends the season as the worst team this year, will be very Lucky (yes, play on words).

[Ravage!!!]

Tebow will be the starter by mid-season, I have no doubts. But Steve Young was a DAMNED good passer in college, Roth was considered a top 5 Pick in the draft, and if Tebow wasn't drafted to be our "savior"... then why was he drafted???? :confused:

[BroncoStud]

Tebow will be the starter by mid-season, I have no doubts. But Steve Young was a DAMNED good passer in college, Roth was considered a top 5 Pick in the draft, and if Tebow wasn't drafted to be our "savior"... then why was he drafted???? :confused:

Forgotten in all this is that D. Thomas was actually drafted BEFORE Tebow, and what has he saved?

At least Tebow has contributed points.

[Ravage!!!]

Forgotten in all this is that D. Thomas was actually drafted BEFORE Tebow, and what has he saved?

At least Tebow has contributed points.

What does Thomas have to do with anything? Nothing. You said that Vick was drafted to be the Falcon's "savior." If you don't think Tebow was drafted to be our "savior"... then why would we draft him in the first round? Why did we spend 4 picks to get him? He absolutely, without a doubt, was drafted to be our "savior" and to give this team "hope." Thomas has NOTHING to do with that.

[pnbronco]

I feel like we are getting to the point where we aren't looking at any evidence of Tebow's limitations.

Is Fox wrong? Is Elway wrong? Is Xanders wrong?

They probably would start him if things were even close with Horton.

Well said Beef. I so like Tebow, he's just a great, great person. I wish he were close but he's not. The lock out hurt him so much because he needed as much time as possible to work with this new staff.

This is what I've seen from last years camp to this year. Last year his motion was terrible and he was not accurate. This year he is more accurate, not great but better. The problem is that he is holding on way tooooo long, he's going to get killed out there unless he can make faster reads.

Quinn has gotten better, but not good enough to start. So IMO Quinn and Tebow are much closer to a tie. If it is a tie why not name Tebow your #2 and give the fan base hope.

I thought this article was beyond cruel. There are a lot of ways to say he is not ready without all the attacks. It does make me think if the press is willing to go after him like this what will opposing D's do him to bring "The Great Tim Tebow" down (just things I've heard in camp make me grumpy). I would like him to have time to work with this staff and see if they can use the round light switch to turn up the light if it can be. Dang Beef I've quotes you twice now, I'm not sure if I should feel happy, dirty or scared.....:lol:

[HammeredOut]

"The Heisman Trophy winner looks stiff under center. Most quarterbacks go snap-step-step-step-throw. Tebow goes snap-step-step-step-think-ponder-think-some-more-finally-decide-throw-three-feet-behind-the-receiver. " ESPN----

"If his first read is covered, he needs a Garmin. He drops his arm as if he wants to run, then thinks better of it. He doesn't quite understand the coverages yet anyway. And when he finally does decide, he's late getting it off. He seems flustered, and it screws up his accuracy. " ESPN-----

This is plain funny. Tebow is doing exactly what I said before Training Camp, and doing exactly what I predicted, and many predicted. Heisman Bust.

[BroncoNut]

Lets just accept that Tebow is NOT ready. He wasn't ready coming out of college, and hasn't improved that status. Its that simple.

then get him ready. Put him in. Let's move on and go into next year's draft with at least a clue on the position

[Ravage!!!]

then get him ready. Put him in. Let's move on and go into next year's draft with at least a clue on the position

I don't think the players on the team that are working their butt off, nor the coach that knows his job is dependant on his success/failure, is willing to simply throw the season by not starting the player that gives them the best chance to win.

I can understand why the coach would want to start Orton now, considering Tebow is NOT ready. He can't read and/or identify the defense. He doesn't understand the coverages which means he's not looking at the right WR early. Right now, when he doesn't see that first guy open, he wants to run. He still has that panic mode in him about "read and flight"...and that doesn't work.

WHEN the team has lost several games, and about midseason when its obvious this team isn't going to the playoffs, then the coaches can put Tebow in the lineup WITHOUT losing the locker room. RIght now, they put Tebow in that line up, and the players just feel as though you aren't giving THEM the best chance to win.

Right now... I think the coaches have a better understanding as to what we have in Tebow then what we would like to give them credit for. You can't expect the coaches to see a QB can't read, can't indentify, can't call out the blocking needed, can't find the right WR and then not find the 2nd WR.. and believe that he's going to change by putting him in the starting spot.

[BroncoNut]

I don't think the players on the team that are working their butt off, nor the coach that knows his job is dependant on his success/failure, is willing to simply throw the season by not starting the player that gives them the best chance to win.

I can understand why the coach would want to start Orton now, considering Tebow is NOT ready. He can't read and/or identify the defense. He doesn't understand the coverages which means he's not looking at the right WR early. Right now, when he doesn't see that first guy open, he wants to run. He still has that panic mode in him about "read and flight"...and that doesn't work.

WHEN the team has lost several games, and about midseason when its obvious this team isn't going to the playoffs, then the coaches can put Tebow in the lineup WITHOUT losing the locker room. RIght now, they put Tebow in that line up, and the players just feel as though you aren't giving THEM the best chance to win.

Right now... I think the coaches have a better understanding as to what we have in Tebow then what we would like to give them credit for. You can't expect the coaches to see a QB can't read, can't indentify, can't call out the blocking needed, can't find the right WR and then not find the 2nd WR.. and believe that he's going to change by putting him in the starting spot.

I agree that Orton should start. and that the staff has a better idea. But it's still unknown HOW Tim will develop. Granted, it'd be better for him to get the experience in the offseason, which, as we know didn't happen. It's just that Orton's likely not the answer and there's s raw rookie in the stable.

[jlarsiii]

That rule no longer exists. The rule this year is that teams can dress 3 QBs and any QB can come in at any time.

Thanks for the update. That at least allows me to see how the FO rates our QB core without bias.

[weazel]

Perhaps, but I'd settle for a starting QB that leaves it all on the field and plays to win, not to avoid being hit... :coffee:

only problem with that is Tebow was injured on his first play of the season last year... lmao

[jlarsiii]

I was responding to you pointing out that Tebow got injured in the preseason running the ball.

My reasoning is simply that regardless of McDouchebag's poor coaching, Orton was given every opportunity to boost his stats in a pass-first offense and succeed. Orton threw up great stats until it came time to drive the length of the field and win games. In that situation he was 1 for 6. He beat Tennessee, lost to the Jets on a fumbled snap, threw a pick vs Jax, threw a pick vs SF, went 4 and out vs St Louis, and went 4 and out vs the Chiefs.

I'm not asking for miracles here. I'm not asking for him to score 60 points to Oakland's 59. I'm not asking him to cover for the inept defense. I'm just asking that when the defense keeps him in games and gives the Broncos a chance to win in the fourth quarter that he NOT choke it away time and time again. That he raise his game and compete instead of falling apart.

Fair enough. Before you judge him too harshly maybe you should look at the Tebow clips on NFL.com from his starts last year.

How do you mean? Literally no, Tebow is not Michael Vick, but the similarities are striking. A spread option college QB who dominated the game with his ability to run the ball and still had a good enough arm to amass very respectable passing numbers. Neither were experience playing in a pro-type offense or had real experience going through progressions (neither did Sam Bradford or Colt McCoy in college either, both had to look to the sidelines for their pre-snap read). Other than the fact that Vick is fast enough to outrun most guys and Tebow is big enough to run some guys over, their styles are extremely similar as they are to Vince Young. The big difference between Vince Young and Tebow? Vince Young has no work ethic and very little maturity. That's why he failed in Tennessee, not because he couldn't do it physically.

Maybe for the same reason that nobody else other than those who are really pulling for him to fail see that. Sure, his throwing motion isn't pretty. Neither is Phillip Rivers'. Neither was Brett Favre's. Neither was Bernie Kosar's. Know who has a perfectly technically sound throwing motion? Ryan Leaf. In the final three games of last year I saw a guy who was learning on the fly but even when things didn't go his way, he never got down, never let the team get down, led from the front, fired up the team, averaged more points than we had all year as an offense, and restored some semblance of hope to the fanbase. That's why I don't see him as a "situational FB". I guess Hillis is just a "situational FB", too.

Fair enough, I see your viewpoint. Let me start by apologizing for responding a day later. I had a little bit too much to drink last night and that causes me to want to argue more but do so using fewer accurate statements. I basically would have started to pull sh*t out of my a$$. So I had to stop and call it a night.

Just to be clear I don't pull for Tebow to fail. I just doubt his ability to become a NFL caliber QB. . .